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[paul_tyler]: hi
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show bruno
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[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: welcome
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[bruno_caron]: thank you great to be here and
excited about
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[paul_tyler]: tessa
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[bruno_caron]: our guests
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[paul_tyler]: glad you got your yahyeahtisa good to
see you
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: to see you good morning
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[paul_tyler]: yeah we’ve been
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[bruno_caron]: m
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[paul_tyler]: busy on a lot of fronts last
few weeks haven’t we
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i
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[paul_tyler]: and ramsey looks
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah
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[paul_tyler]: like you’re i think you’re broadcasting from
an undisclosed location today
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[ramsey_d_smith]: indeed
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[paul_tyler]: correct
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[ramsey_d_smith]: looks kind of like a wine seller
doesn’t it but
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not
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[paul_tyler]: yeah ah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: a very
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: happy
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to be here and really excited to
welcome lawrence black in the end standard uh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: the the index standard has been our
lead sponsor for the better part of the
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[ramsey_d_smith]: last year so we’re really excited to
have them on they’re doing a lot of
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[ramsey_d_smith]: very interesting things in and helping the
the index community unpack the best way to
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[ramsey_d_smith]: allocate industies and the best way to
understand their role in a broader portfolio so
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[ramsey_d_smith]: with that lawrence i want to start
out with you and you also have a
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[ramsey_d_smith]: special guest a new addition to your
team you’re going to want to introduce
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: as well so i will pass it
on to you for that
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[laurence]: indeed so good morning every one it’s
great to join you so as you guys
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[laurence]: know it i’ve been with you a
couple of times in the past great to
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[laurence]: be back here again and i’m delighted
to introduce brand nicolitch who’s just joined us
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[laurence]: from from begpardon let me try a
re
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: do that again hey good morning it’s
great to join you i’m delighted to introduce
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[laurence]: branslanicolich
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: who’s just joined us from chanics he
was ahead of research and he was therefore
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[laurence]: about almost a decade and the index
standard we’ve got a lot of index expertise
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[laurence]: and it’s great to kind of expand
our capabilities
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah
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[laurence]: with brand slabs in depth insurance knowledge
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[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic
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[paul_tyler]: welcome yeah
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[branislav_nikolic]: thank you extremely
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[paul_tyler]: you want
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[branislav_nikolic]: happy to be here
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[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah tell us
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: tell us it’s a little bit about
your back story how did how did you
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[paul_tyler]: get into the annuity space
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[branislav_nikolic]: so my story with annuities was polly
haphazard so old way through school i thought
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[branislav_nikolic]: i would end up on a trading
desk somewhere be a proper quant and i
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[branislav_nikolic]: had enormous luck to meet motinmilevsky extreme
early in my career and started working for
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[branislav_nikolic]: for his start up later joined chanics
which is again an industry leader on data
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[branislav_nikolic]: analytics for annuities spent good almost ten
years there leading research and really helping antics
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[branislav_nikolic]: build their capabilities in all sorts of
annuities in terms of platforms for exchanges that’s
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[branislav_nikolic]: how i lawrence and j and i
really saw the two missions extremely complimentary and
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[branislav_nikolic]: i always saw the index as a
fuel to the annuity and i always was
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[branislav_nikolic]: saying that it’s important these
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[branislav_nikolic]: two things
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[branislav_nikolic]: evaluated together so we started talking and
i’m extremely happy to have joined the team
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[branislav_nikolic]: and to be side by side with
lawrence and j
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: lawrence so actually we saw each other
in person it was it was tremendous i
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[laurence]: indeed
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[paul_tyler]: i made the very last minute decision
to tend naa this year and a f
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[paul_tyler]: a for those of you who were
wont to look at this up had their
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[paul_tyler]: conference in california showed up and lawrence
you were on a great platform talking about
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[paul_tyler]: kind of the landscape of product design
and industiesn maybe for our audience you could
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[paul_tyler]: just sort of give us talk to
us a little bit more about the problem
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[paul_tyler]: you’re solving and you know what’s taking
place in the market today
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[laurence]: sure thanks paul because you know a
lot is happening so let me just sort
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[laurence]: of give everyone little bit of background
about what we
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: do so at the end of standard
we all know there’s so much complexity in
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[laurence]: this market with induces and the pay
offs so what we do at the end
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[laurence]: next standard which were really trying to
simplify decode and mystify all this complexity and
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[laurence]: we do it in a couple of
ways we’ve got a lot of research
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[ramsey_d_smith]: he
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[laurence]: that we help people giving them insights
as to what products and industries to select
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[laurence]: we also actually rate and evaluate every
single index used in the insurance space we
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[laurence]: give it a platinum gold silver bronze
rating and then we actually have some forward
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[laurence]: looking forecast to help people think about
the future because we all know the future
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[laurence]: is going to be different so we
have some forecast and then we’ve actually on
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[laurence]: the of these forecasts we’ve actually launched
some model allications so allicating
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: to an annuity can be really tough
with sort of fifteen crediting lines so we’ve
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[laurence]: actually built a tool to help people
with
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: a tough selection now i just want
to give you some background about the index
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[laurence]: industry so one interesting
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: fact it’s actually almost a trillion dollar
industry no one knows about it so i
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[laurence]: call it like a niche market
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[branislav_nikolic]: ah
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[laurence]: that’s a trillion dollars
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: so you know we see in the
u s insurance space there’s probably is the
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[laurence]: bulk of risk control industries probably about
half that but actually risk control industries are
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[laurence]: used in germany
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: and in switzerland
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: actually used in the insurance
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye
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[laurence]: space they use risk control industries in
mutual funds then another big portion is structure
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[laurence]: products we estimate there’s probably two hundred
and fifty billion in instructure products that actually
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[laurence]: are linked to these risk control industries
and then actually you have this of bank
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[laurence]: market where they’re doing direct transactions with
big institutions that’s probably another two hundred billions
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[laurence]: so in total we think it’s around
about a trillion dollar market
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[ramsey_d_smith]: so that’s incredible i mean one of
the things though that is
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that has been interesting about the market
is it’s gotten it’s been characterized by a
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lot more choice and there’s a lot
of value in an adit a choice but
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[ramsey_d_smith]: with with those choices becomes many many
more complicated decisions
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[laurence]: yeah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know so i guess a
question you know that that i have for
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[ramsey_d_smith]: you like so what sort of what
are your various target audiences i can see
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[ramsey_d_smith]: i can certainly see why retail retail
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[laurence]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: consumers would want to be able to
decode all the choices but i would imagine
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that institutions are almost similarly challenged so
what are your target audiences for your product
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lines yeah
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[laurence]: so we’re actually kind of targeting that
that whole gammit we want
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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm
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[laurence]: to help organizations with the selection and
due diligence of these industies want to help
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[laurence]: organizations who selling them that they can
use our reports to kind of position them
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[laurence]: and and in the end consumer i
mean the main reason i’m actually here and
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[laurence]: doing this is i want m and
ms smith who are buying these policies to
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[laurence]: do better right
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: by building choosing
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: better industries and building diverse portfolios and
let me just make one quick comment about
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: the industries because
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
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[laurence]: you know i think we hear a
lot about the comp lexity but also on
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[laurence]: the sort of flip side is actually
it’s really wonderful because what we’re now
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: seeing is a lot of the users
are actually getting access to techniques that only
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[laurence]: used by hedge funds or big pension
funds i can give any example there’s a
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[laurence]: technique called mean verace optimization just a
fancy way of saying give me the best
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[laurence]: aplication to target a certain level of
risk that was kind of actually harry make
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[laurence]: its came up with that technique in
the late fifties he wanted no ball prize
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[laurence]: for up until a couple of years
ago you only had big pension funds and
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[laurence]: big hedge funds were using that ut
now amazingly that technique is an indusies and
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[laurence]: we can all access that so that’s
actually a really wonderful innovation that all of
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[laurence]: us can use that
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: to do better
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[branislav_nikolic]: yeah m
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[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s wonderful and can you talk
you talk a little bit more about those
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[bruno_caron]: those actual metrics and in practice what
type of metrics it you used to rate
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[bruno_caron]: s
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[bruno_caron]: h i mean you list plenty in
terms of calculating and measuring those like like
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[bruno_caron]: capital risk metric efficiency metric return metric
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[bruno_caron]: what are those metrics and what do
they mean
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[bruno_caron]: for people who ultimately use them
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[laurence]: he great question bruno
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: so we actually look at about thirty
five
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: metrics and i’m going
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[branislav_nikolic]: ah
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[laurence]: to loosely break them down into
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: three groups so the first group is
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: we really want to look at the
complex city of each
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: index how it’s designed and the availability
of the rules and who’s calculating that the
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[laurence]: key thing is is really that complexity
we’ll look at the dirt the diversification we’ll
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[laurence]: look and see if the rules are
available well look and see if there’s an
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[laurence]: independent index calculation
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: agent and we like to see those
things and by the way what we prefer
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[laurence]: to see when we’re looking at an
index is simpler is better than an index
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[laurence]: with lots of no second category is
what you touched on
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: will look at a lot of
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[laurence]: metrics like such as returns and volatility
but there we want to kind of go
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[laurence]: under the hood and we look at
something called v which is v a r
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[laurence]: but it’s just simply a metric that
tells you how much you can possibly
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[ramsey_d_smith]: what does
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[laurence]: lose
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that spell
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[laurence]: so we
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[ramsey_d_smith]: out
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[laurence]: want
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to
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[laurence]: to look
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lawrence
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[laurence]: at that
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[ramsey_d_smith]: for those on our audience
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[laurence]: yeah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: who don’t
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[bruno_caron]: i
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[ramsey_d_smith]: know
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[bruno_caron]: i
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[ramsey_d_smith]: what that spells out
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: we’re
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to
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[laurence]: going to keep it
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: simple
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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay
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[laurence]: we just look under the hood and
we kind
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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay
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[laurence]: of figure out the max that you
could lose
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[ramsey_d_smith]: right
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[laurence]: we also look at you know the
number of months that the index has positive
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[laurence]: on negative returns look at another technical
measure that says have you got a propensity
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[laurence]: for positive returns
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: we also look at large big outliers
as well to see if you’ve got any
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[laurence]: positive or large negative outlines again that
tells us a lot and then the final
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[laurence]: categories we actually look forward and we
actually bring in some of our forecast to
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[laurence]: try and also have a forward looking
measure
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[laurence]: so we score each nex out of
a hundred then we market on a bell
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[laurence]: shaped curve when we allocate platinum gold
silver bronze and then we also have watch
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[laurence]: and neutral as our worst categories
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[paul_tyler]: so lawrence if if i’m an advisor
selling one
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: of our one of our own companies
products to tsa and i’ve got the materials
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[paul_tyler]: in front of my the table because
the virtual table i have a lot of
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[paul_tyler]: personal risk at stake here right i
could recommend
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[paul_tyler]: induces that creator the next two years
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[laurence]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: um i could uh come over the
recommendations that are all kind of bunched up
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[paul_tyler]: in one in a couple i may
think i’ve diversified the actual
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: industries when in fact i’ve put all
her retirement into sort of one sector m
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[paul_tyler]: sometimes advisers simply default of saying look
tis just pick three or four of these
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[paul_tyler]: and let’s divide by that number and
put them in these industries oh and by
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[paul_tyler]: the way we now have best interest
standards now coming down the pike what
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[laurence]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: does that process look like do i
spend more time with her lawrence do i
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[paul_tyler]: have better tools do i go in
with sort of pre set recommendations what does
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[paul_tyler]: that this looks like two or three
years from now
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[laurence]: you know that’s great let me answer
that in two parts and i would love
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[laurence]: to bring in brandon slave to answer
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: the second part here so you know
let me give you a couple of thoughts
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[laurence]: you know firstly i think the future
is going to be different from the past
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[laurence]: so always looking at these past historical
returns is probably not going to be optimal
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[laurence]: you know and let me give you
some some simple examples right firstly the last
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[laurence]: decade we had low inflation
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye okay
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[laurence]: low interest rates no
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[ramsey_d_smith]: last
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[laurence]: tech
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[ramsey_d_smith]: week
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[laurence]: tail wins and globalization and it was
a great environment for large cap tech going
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[laurence]: forward i think everyone recognizes right we
see higher inflation we see higher rates we
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[laurence]: see dglobalization you know and the tech
is being regulated
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: beg pardon a recent big merger just
got blocked between microsopt and activision visit so
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[laurence]: that you know the world is going
to be different going forward so you know
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[laurence]: i think there are a lot of
people who are just alicating you know hundred
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[laurence]: percent to a bench mark index so
we want to encourage people to look forward
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[laurence]: so the way we do that at
the end ex standard we actually take the
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[laurence]: wisdom of wall street we actually go
and collect about thirty five asset managers and
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[laurence]: banks their ten year forward looking returns
and then what we do is we actually
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[laurence]: apply these these actual
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: expected returns to each index and then
we’re able to produce
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: a forward looking forecast for each index
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: so hand of the brands who is
going to talk about one of our latest
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00:13:03,589 –> 00:13:07,858
[laurence]: innovations on what we’ve been doing around
kind of making that more useful for an
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[laurence]: f i a over over to you
brandslep
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[branislav_nikolic]: thank you laurence so so again the
key for me and one thing that i’m
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00:13:14,537 –> 00:13:18,904
[branislav_nikolic]: extremely passionate about is how does this
to your point all get sold or how
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00:13:18,944 –> 00:13:24,457
[branislav_nikolic]: is this presented over virtual or actual
kitchen table right because again who are the
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00:13:24,497 –> 00:13:30,322
[branislav_nikolic]: buyers of annuities or pre retires or
early retires and you have two motives when
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00:13:30,462 –> 00:13:35,871
[branislav_nikolic]: one is guaranteed income for life one
is the accumulation with a protected protected downside
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00:13:36,252 –> 00:13:41,521
[branislav_nikolic]: either or you are looking for your
index more often than not to provide basis
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00:13:41,601 –> 00:13:46,048
[branislav_nikolic]: of growth if you’re looking on the
accumulation side obvious if you’re looking on the
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00:13:46,108 –> 00:13:50,976
[branislav_nikolic]: income side you have more and more
products coming in with the ability to harvest
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00:13:51,137 –> 00:13:56,184
[branislav_nikolic]: some of that index growth and trans
laded into um cost of living adjustment on
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00:13:56,244 –> 00:13:59,728
[branislav_nikolic]: your income going forward one way or
the other you have to understand the annuity
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00:14:00,068 –> 00:14:03,845
[branislav_nikolic]: which i will which i like to
think of as like as an engine or
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00:14:03,885 –> 00:14:06,993
[branislav_nikolic]: a car and you have to think
of an index which i like to think
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00:14:07,053 –> 00:14:11,902
[branislav_nikolic]: of as a fuel you can have
like perfect grade fuel you put in a
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00:14:11,922 –> 00:14:16,908
[branislav_nikolic]: bad engine doesn’t go you have a
perfect car put put a basic gasoline in
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00:14:16,989 –> 00:14:21,526
[branislav_nikolic]: it sant go either like it starts
to cling you need the best combination and
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00:14:21,566 –> 00:14:27,315
[branislav_nikolic]: this is where i believe that looking
into forecasts first of all coming from a
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00:14:28,217 –> 00:14:33,526
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence was mentioning with of all street
transformed into how these indessinduscis will do going
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00:14:33,586 –> 00:14:38,434
[branislav_nikolic]: forward putting down through the annuities to
achieve something that we call it in stand
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00:14:38,834 –> 00:14:43,883
[branislav_nikolic]: the net forecast yield basically trying to
what would the annuity with a given crediting
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00:14:43,963 –> 00:14:49,011
[branislav_nikolic]: strategy on a given index provide over
over the next ten years and then on
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00:14:49,092 –> 00:14:54,080
[branislav_nikolic]: top of that now look into all
of these options and see which two three
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00:14:54,260 –> 00:15:00,150
[branislav_nikolic]: five options will give you the highest
expected return going forward so again thinking about
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00:15:00,410 –> 00:15:05,178
[branislav_nikolic]: the design of the engine whether it’s
a strategy whether it’s a parameters are you
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00:15:05,238 –> 00:15:09,283
[branislav_nikolic]: paying a fee it or not what
type of index are you putting to it
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00:15:09,363 –> 00:15:12,926
[branislav_nikolic]: if it’s a bench mark you’re usually
getting a fraction of a return if it’s
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00:15:12,966 –> 00:15:18,276
[branislav_nikolic]: a volatility control you get a multiple
now let’s say that you get ten per
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00:15:18,356 –> 00:15:22,591
[branislav_nikolic]: cent return on a bench marine dex
and you get half of it okay ten
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00:15:22,651 –> 00:15:26,056
[branislav_nikolic]: percent are we going to get ten
per cent next year the year after i
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00:15:26,097 –> 00:15:30,324
[branislav_nikolic]: don’t know but if you get well
till controlled index and you get two three
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00:15:30,464 –> 00:15:36,613
[branislav_nikolic]: times of it even if it returns
two three percent you’re already doing doing much
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00:15:36,653 –> 00:15:40,778
[branislav_nikolic]: better all of this has to be
taken taken into context the other one is
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00:15:40,838 –> 00:15:48,860
[branislav_nikolic]: that probably the truth lies somewhere in
between looking into the history and seeing high
329
00:15:48,940 –> 00:15:54,562
[branislav_nikolic]: returns are you going to see these
going forward no you’re going to see exactly
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00:15:54,602 –> 00:15:59,430
[branislav_nikolic]: what’s happening in the forecast probably not
but i think these two are perfect basis
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00:15:59,470 –> 00:16:03,396
[branislav_nikolic]: for conversation one for legal legal reasons
you got to do it because that’s how
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00:16:03,437 –> 00:16:08,821
[branislav_nikolic]: you sell the annuity and the other
one is to basically show that up done
333
00:16:08,881 –> 00:16:13,149
[branislav_nikolic]: some thinking outside of the box in
terms of due diligence and what could happen
334
00:16:13,269 –> 00:16:17,536
[branislav_nikolic]: and again use this as a cheat
cheat to show how well you understand the
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00:16:17,596 –> 00:16:20,672
[branislav_nikolic]: whole car plus the fee on a
race track
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00:16:24,297 –> 00:16:25,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: so a quick question here
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00:16:25,596 –> 00:16:26,766
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh
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00:16:26,141 –> 00:16:29,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: so this this makes a lot of
sense right for a variety of
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00:16:29,580 –> 00:16:30,720
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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00:16:29,646 –> 00:16:36,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: reasons and the question is has anybody
done this before has there been has there
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00:16:36,778 –> 00:16:41,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: been primarily a focus on history and
in particular back testing
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00:16:42,934 –> 00:16:45,197
[laurence]: yeah i think there’s been such
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00:16:45,180 –> 00:16:46,440
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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00:16:45,278 –> 00:16:50,346
[laurence]: a focus in on the industry and
back testing and listen it has a place
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00:16:50,506 –> 00:16:50,647
[laurence]: but
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00:16:50,529 –> 00:16:50,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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00:16:51,147 –> 00:16:52,369
[laurence]: what we like to say is
348
00:16:52,448 –> 00:16:52,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: i
349
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:57,324
[laurence]: take the back test and take the
all cast and sort of think about the
350
00:16:57,538 –> 00:16:57,619
[ramsey_d_smith]: no
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00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:01,912
[laurence]: using it together let me give you
like a common sense example that we we’ve
352
00:17:01,952 –> 00:17:07,662
[laurence]: been thinking about so right now some
of the large cap tech industries have the
353
00:17:07,722 –> 00:17:13,595
[laurence]: last ten years historical returns of sixteen
per cent so let’s kind of apply common
354
00:17:13,675 –> 00:17:15,116
[laurence]: logic and let’s take apple
355
00:17:14,910 –> 00:17:15,578
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
356
00:17:15,576 –> 00:17:20,601
[laurence]: apples the largest constituent of a lot
of pig teck industries so apple the market
357
00:17:20,661 –> 00:17:25,256
[laurence]: cap right now is about two point
four trillion so if i take that two
358
00:17:25,316 –> 00:17:29,624
[laurence]: point four trillion and i’m going to
compound it at sixteen percent like many
359
00:17:29,647 –> 00:17:29,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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00:17:30,025 –> 00:17:34,858
[laurence]: is shown in the the software illustrations
actually that means in ten years time apple
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00:17:34,898 –> 00:17:40,558
[laurence]: is going to have to have a
market cap of ten trillion dollars now maybe
362
00:17:40,598 –> 00:17:40,919
[laurence]: that’s going
363
00:17:40,957 –> 00:17:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
364
00:17:40,959 –> 00:17:41,940
[laurence]: to happen but
365
00:17:41,850 –> 00:17:42,630
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:42,762
[laurence]: like let me give you some
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00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:42,942
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
368
00:17:42,802 –> 00:17:49,112
[laurence]: context the german g p is three
point eight trillion so it might happen right
369
00:17:49,413 –> 00:17:50,214
[laurence]: but that’s we
370
00:17:50,280 –> 00:17:50,300
[branislav_nikolic]: m
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00:17:50,414 –> 00:17:54,842
[laurence]: want to encourage people to be diverse
because you know i was just saying i
372
00:17:54,882 –> 00:17:58,187
[laurence]: think it’s going to be a decade
of discomfort right we’ve seen the end of
373
00:17:58,248 –> 00:18:02,238
[laurence]: globalization is going to be difficult so
i think you want to be diverse right
374
00:18:03,114 –> 00:18:07,821
[laurence]: look at emerging markets there their historic
or returns for the last ten years kind
375
00:18:07,861 –> 00:18:11,326
[laurence]: of like about zero maybe they’re going
to do better right you want to put
376
00:18:11,367 –> 00:18:11,387
[laurence]: a
377
00:18:11,409 –> 00:18:11,430
[branislav_nikolic]: m
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00:18:11,427 –> 00:18:15,433
[laurence]: little bit of money in there right
now everyone’s so bearish about europe but maybe
379
00:18:15,473 –> 00:18:19,200
[laurence]: you want to sprinkle a little bit
in there too so we just think being
380
00:18:19,260 –> 00:18:26,051
[laurence]: diversified is really important and with our
innovation of helping people to choose across complicated
381
00:18:26,452 –> 00:18:31,360
[laurence]: crediting strategies that brands have just outlined
we take that complicated choice between they say
382
00:18:31,761 –> 00:18:35,669
[laurence]: choosing fifty percent of a bench mark
index or two hundred per cent in a
383
00:18:35,730 –> 00:18:40,530
[laurence]: risk control index just make that into
an apples to apples conversation where we can
384
00:18:40,581 –> 00:18:40,682
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
385
00:18:40,630 –> 00:18:43,718
[laurence]: say maybe you’re gonna get five here
and maybe you goin to get eight here
386
00:18:44,199 –> 00:18:45,782
[laurence]: to build a diversified portfolio
387
00:18:46,560 –> 00:18:50,887
[branislav_nikolic]: one thing lawrence that i would like
to add again lawrence being an expert to
388
00:18:50,927 –> 00:18:54,433
[branislav_nikolic]: what i call fuel and industries again
like its great great insight but again looking
389
00:18:54,493 –> 00:18:59,241
[branislav_nikolic]: into just these strategies that you get
in these annuities strategies they are built to
390
00:18:59,681 –> 00:19:04,469
[branislav_nikolic]: harvest the sharp growth you have strategies
that give you cap return so basically you’re
391
00:19:04,489 –> 00:19:08,316
[branislav_nikolic]: looking for a pause that have some
they’re looking for just positive return and then
392
00:19:08,356 –> 00:19:13,765
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re good you have those they are
looking for consistently positive return without any volatility
393
00:19:13,865 –> 00:19:14,085
[branislav_nikolic]: in them
394
00:19:14,947 –> 00:19:15,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
395
00:19:15,328 –> 00:19:19,094
[branislav_nikolic]: how to know again you can have
your view of the market have your outlook
396
00:19:19,695 –> 00:19:23,782
[branislav_nikolic]: but how exactly you know where to
put on so if your money you don’t
397
00:19:23,822 –> 00:19:27,087
[branislav_nikolic]: have to you don’t have to know
that’s why it’s good to diversify that’s why
398
00:19:27,167 –> 00:19:33,518
[branislav_nikolic]: it’s good to diversify strategies crsindusties and
basically get all of these tools available to
399
00:19:33,578 –> 00:19:37,056
[branislav_nikolic]: you working for the for the end
user which is the most important piece
400
00:19:38,589 –> 00:19:38,710
[paul_tyler]: this
401
00:19:38,745 –> 00:19:38,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: and
402
00:19:38,771 –> 00:19:38,831
[paul_tyler]: is
403
00:19:38,886 –> 00:19:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: a
404
00:19:38,891 –> 00:19:38,912
[paul_tyler]: a
405
00:19:38,946 –> 00:19:39,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: key
406
00:19:38,972 –> 00:19:39,455
[paul_tyler]: complicated
407
00:19:39,168 –> 00:19:39,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: element of this
408
00:19:39,959 –> 00:19:40,362
[paul_tyler]: problem
409
00:19:42,447 –> 00:19:46,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s gonna say a key element of
this is that um figuring
410
00:19:46,050 –> 00:19:46,736
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
411
00:19:46,433 –> 00:19:50,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: out how diversified you are not a
simple problem right so it’s not just
412
00:19:50,580 –> 00:19:50,863
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
413
00:19:51,241 –> 00:19:52,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: um you know joe the advisor
414
00:19:52,740 –> 00:19:53,610
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
415
00:19:53,144 –> 00:19:57,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: saying i’d like i’d like so i’d
like some europe i’d like like some us
416
00:19:57,331 –> 00:20:02,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: exposure et cetera because there are there
are correlations across those various assets as well
417
00:20:02,440 –> 00:20:04,343
[ramsey_d_smith]: so it’s i think
418
00:20:04,294 –> 00:20:04,520
[laurence]: oh
419
00:20:04,383 –> 00:20:09,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: that folks in the audience that would
they’re using a platform like this it’s important
420
00:20:09,131 –> 00:20:14,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: to understand that that it’s you can’t
really do it properly unless you have a
421
00:20:14,240 –> 00:20:21,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: pretty sophisticated engine under the hood to
be able to capture not just the obvious
422
00:20:21,087 –> 00:20:25,654
[ramsey_d_smith]: sources of diversification but also the less
obvious places where you may be is not
423
00:20:25,694 –> 00:20:26,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: as diversified as you think
424
00:20:27,959 –> 00:20:28,100
[paul_tyler]: yeah
425
00:20:28,795 –> 00:20:29,596
[laurence]: that’s a great point
426
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:29,542
[branislav_nikolic]: ye
427
00:20:29,817 –> 00:20:33,743
[laurence]: and you know we do work with
chanics to get some of the data and
428
00:20:33,843 –> 00:20:39,493
[laurence]: brands joined us from them and actually
on our staff we’ve got mostly quits you
429
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:43,079
[laurence]: know we have j watson who’s one
of our other partners he’s got a quant
430
00:20:43,199 –> 00:20:47,847
[laurence]: background we’ve got trent mckenna who also
has masters in finance j has a ph
431
00:20:47,887 –> 00:20:47,907
[laurence]: d
432
00:20:48,067 –> 00:20:48,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
433
00:20:48,107 –> 00:20:51,232
[laurence]: and brand slave has masters and working
on his ph d so
434
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:51,643
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
435
00:20:51,994 –> 00:20:53,236
[laurence]: i’ve only got an m b a
so i’m
436
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:53,402
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
437
00:20:53,296 –> 00:20:53,416
[laurence]: like
438
00:20:53,317 –> 00:20:53,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
439
00:20:53,496 –> 00:20:54,999
[laurence]: i feel you know these guys are
440
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:56,790
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
441
00:20:55,860 –> 00:21:00,187
[laurence]: the smart guys that we have here
and yeahit’it’s very complicated and we spend a
442
00:21:00,368 –> 00:21:00,528
[laurence]: lot
443
00:21:00,476 –> 00:21:01,166
[paul_tyler]: oh
444
00:21:00,568 –> 00:21:04,074
[laurence]: of time modeling that out but the
key thing is we want to make it’s
445
00:21:04,234 –> 00:21:06,095
[laurence]: simple for people and present an
446
00:21:06,057 –> 00:21:06,077
[branislav_nikolic]: m
447
00:21:06,276 –> 00:21:09,659
[laurence]: apples to apples comparison we want to
help people and boil it down just what
448
00:21:09,699 –> 00:21:13,542
[laurence]: do you need to know here’s the
apples to apples comparison and here is a
449
00:21:13,582 –> 00:21:14,303
[laurence]: way to allocate
450
00:21:14,786 –> 00:21:15,071
[paul_tyler]: yeah
451
00:21:15,150 –> 00:21:15,170
[branislav_nikolic]: a
452
00:21:15,164 –> 00:21:16,491
[laurence]: this industry is too complicated
453
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:17,252
[paul_tyler]: look
454
00:21:17,432 –> 00:21:21,599
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence one thing that you touched on
and i think it’s important in ramsey asked
455
00:21:21,639 –> 00:21:24,944
[branislav_nikolic]: this like has anyone done any of
this before and i think that we are
456
00:21:25,004 –> 00:21:29,712
[branislav_nikolic]: trying basically to raise the tide i
think that this industry requires all the parties
457
00:21:29,772 –> 00:21:34,921
[branislav_nikolic]: to collaborate and i think this is
where we get again great data and some
458
00:21:35,021 –> 00:21:37,645
[branislav_nikolic]: simple calculations for mechanics we have our
our index
459
00:21:38,617 –> 00:21:38,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
460
00:21:38,747 –> 00:21:40,910
[branislav_nikolic]: index forecast we have our
461
00:21:40,826 –> 00:21:40,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
462
00:21:41,010 –> 00:21:42,031
[branislav_nikolic]: model locations
463
00:21:42,343 –> 00:21:42,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes
464
00:21:42,431 –> 00:21:45,054
[branislav_nikolic]: we are willing to work with others
because at the end of the day i
465
00:21:45,114 –> 00:21:49,678
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is a tide and i
think that shift has to happen it’s important
466
00:21:49,738 –> 00:21:55,141
[branislav_nikolic]: for it to happen again for again
for the end user it’s the most important
467
00:21:55,181 –> 00:22:01,606
[branislav_nikolic]: that this ship happens and legal point
of view will catch up the illustrations their
468
00:22:01,686 –> 00:22:06,514
[branislav_nikolic]: legal requirements the important part of it
but they don’t tell a full story and
469
00:22:06,594 –> 00:22:11,322
[branislav_nikolic]: we are trying to augment that story
that makes it more palatable and easier to
470
00:22:11,362 –> 00:22:16,751
[branislav_nikolic]: have as a conversation today but two
years from now if things don’t turn out
471
00:22:17,413 –> 00:22:20,397
[branislav_nikolic]: like what was shown in illustration that’s
the most important bit
472
00:22:20,887 –> 00:22:21,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
473
00:22:21,256 –> 00:22:25,924
[paul_tyler]: yea let me talk a little bit
more about what diversity actually means
474
00:22:25,777 –> 00:22:26,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah
475
00:22:26,805 –> 00:22:27,266
[paul_tyler]: i like the
476
00:22:27,186 –> 00:22:27,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah
477
00:22:27,306 –> 00:22:32,795
[paul_tyler]: fact lawrence you say we encourage people
to look at back tested returns against four
478
00:22:32,956 –> 00:22:36,401
[paul_tyler]: acid returns there’s also a time factor
right because
479
00:22:37,276 –> 00:22:37,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
480
00:22:37,804 –> 00:22:43,874
[paul_tyler]: if you think about possible outcomes you
may have one fund that appears to have
481
00:22:44,490 –> 00:22:44,993
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
482
00:22:44,495 –> 00:22:50,605
[paul_tyler]: highest likelihood or industry of great returns
but there are also some outliers right through
483
00:22:50,665 –> 00:22:51,607
[paul_tyler]: some cases where
484
00:22:51,541 –> 00:22:51,994
[laurence]: hm
485
00:22:52,829 –> 00:22:57,977
[paul_tyler]: wow tsa could get zero she might
get twenty and return she might get a
486
00:22:58,078 –> 00:22:59,700
[paul_tyler]: zero now if she’s
487
00:22:59,677 –> 00:22:59,800
[laurence]: yeah
488
00:22:59,760 –> 00:23:02,785
[paul_tyler]: about to retire two years from now
and start to pull money
489
00:23:02,786 –> 00:23:02,806
[laurence]: a
490
00:23:02,946 –> 00:23:06,331
[paul_tyler]: out how do i factor in the
possibility
491
00:23:05,949 –> 00:23:05,990
[laurence]: a
492
00:23:06,492 –> 00:23:08,575
[paul_tyler]: that there might be a zero here
493
00:23:09,444 –> 00:23:13,871
[laurence]: yeah right there’s so so much in
what you’ve asked me that
494
00:23:13,980 –> 00:23:15,030
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
495
00:23:14,292 –> 00:23:15,333
[laurence]: d love to talk about so
496
00:23:15,300 –> 00:23:15,563
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
497
00:23:16,155 –> 00:23:22,004
[laurence]: you know great thought so the first
thing is i think everyone really expect bench
498
00:23:22,084 –> 00:23:27,089
[laurence]: mark industries to give positive returns right
the last ten years accepted this year we’ve
499
00:23:27,129 –> 00:23:30,692
[laurence]: just seen positive return so people have
been treated and we all have this recency
500
00:23:30,812 –> 00:23:35,409
[laurence]: bias now this year we’re probably going
to see a negative on many of the
501
00:23:35,449 –> 00:23:40,136
[laurence]: major bench marks and next year if
you look at some of the one year
502
00:23:40,237 –> 00:23:43,462
[laurence]: forecasts that some of the investment banks
put out a couple of investment banks are
503
00:23:43,522 –> 00:23:44,644
[laurence]: calling for negative
504
00:23:44,400 –> 00:23:44,420
[branislav_nikolic]: m
505
00:23:44,684 –> 00:23:48,550
[laurence]: returns so i think people are going
to be shocked so what you really want
506
00:23:48,611 –> 00:23:53,058
[laurence]: to do is find industries that ying
and yang when you know one is up
507
00:23:53,358 –> 00:23:56,408
[laurence]: the other one’s down and vice versa
right so that’s what you got to find
508
00:23:56,568 –> 00:23:57,892
[laurence]: industries that yang and yang
509
00:23:58,249 –> 00:23:58,469
[bruno_caron]: oh
510
00:23:59,054 –> 00:24:03,178
[laurence]: then you want to blend them in
now why is this important i got to
511
00:24:03,258 –> 00:24:06,801
[laurence]: tell you i think the most important
thing in finance that we all tend to
512
00:24:06,862 –> 00:24:13,190
[laurence]: forget is compounding compounding is the magic
in finance right just by eking out a
513
00:24:13,230 –> 00:24:18,239
[laurence]: little positive return each year the next
year you’re compounding on a higher number so
514
00:24:18,740 –> 00:24:23,267
[laurence]: if you can get your client even
two or three and versus zero that
515
00:24:23,284 –> 00:24:23,367
[bruno_caron]: ah
516
00:24:23,367 –> 00:24:25,110
[laurence]: next year you’re going to start at
one o three
517
00:24:25,020 –> 00:24:25,890
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
518
00:24:25,711 –> 00:24:27,093
[laurence]: kind of compound that return so
519
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:27,765
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
520
00:24:27,594 –> 00:24:30,960
[laurence]: compounding is the magic that’s what you
want to do is just get your clients
521
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:34,110
[laurence]: a little positive return and you can
build wealth like that
522
00:24:34,980 –> 00:24:37,484
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence i would like to kind of
add to that a bit and i think
523
00:24:37,504 –> 00:24:40,068
[branislav_nikolic]: this is an important one so when
you look into bench mark industries in the
524
00:24:40,128 –> 00:24:44,355
[branislav_nikolic]: last thirty years let’s say you would
see that we had like periods there will
525
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:47,701
[branislav_nikolic]: last like seven or ten years and
then we have a correction so there was
526
00:24:47,761 –> 00:24:51,908
[branislav_nikolic]: no period of twenty years that you
had like positive high positive return there was
527
00:24:52,028 –> 00:24:56,315
[branislav_nikolic]: always something happening in the middle that
would kind of take us back and then
528
00:24:56,335 –> 00:24:57,657
[branislav_nikolic]: you have like the star
529
00:24:57,709 –> 00:24:57,830
[bruno_caron]: ye
530
00:24:57,738 –> 00:24:59,882
[branislav_nikolic]: grow look at a history of those
industries
531
00:24:59,749 –> 00:25:00,014
[bruno_caron]: oh
532
00:25:00,222 –> 00:25:04,431
[branislav_nikolic]: you had periods in thirties forties fifties
even sixties
533
00:25:04,240 –> 00:25:04,341
[bruno_caron]: ah
534
00:25:04,512 –> 00:25:07,618
[branislav_nikolic]: that they had like a constant seven
percent return so if we are
535
00:25:08,134 –> 00:25:08,154
[laurence]: m
536
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:10,914
[branislav_nikolic]: we can go back at a time
i think that
537
00:25:11,584 –> 00:25:11,888
[laurence]: oh
538
00:25:11,655 –> 00:25:15,281
[branislav_nikolic]: our conversation today will be obsolete if
you have a index returning seven percent year
539
00:25:15,421 –> 00:25:19,869
[branislav_nikolic]: over here here we are talking about
people thinking of averages but the sequence of
540
00:25:19,929 –> 00:25:23,712
[branislav_nikolic]: returns there’s a lot and then that’s
what i think will lawrence is saying i
541
00:25:23,752 –> 00:25:29,057
[branislav_nikolic]: would try to relate to the annuity
folks a little bit different is basically saying
542
00:25:29,097 –> 00:25:33,346
[branislav_nikolic]: that if you have a seven or
ten year annuity are you better off getting
543
00:25:34,670 –> 00:25:36,954
[branislav_nikolic]: solid returns three five
544
00:25:36,919 –> 00:25:36,939
[bruno_caron]: m
545
00:25:37,014 –> 00:25:41,441
[branislav_nikolic]: or seven out of out of ten
years or you should get positive return in
546
00:25:41,521 –> 00:25:45,107
[branislav_nikolic]: all ten of them and again depending
how these are using the plan if you’re
547
00:25:45,187 –> 00:25:50,236
[branislav_nikolic]: living of interest or or that a
fixed fixed credit you want it every year
548
00:25:50,416 –> 00:25:53,221
[branislav_nikolic]: and you want to be able to
plan so i guess it really matters how
549
00:25:53,301 –> 00:25:58,249
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re putting this into into into the
annuity as well another thing that became apparent
550
00:25:58,005 –> 00:25:58,026
[bruno_caron]: a
551
00:25:58,349 –> 00:25:59,912
[branislav_nikolic]: as ere doing the research for the
model
552
00:25:59,749 –> 00:26:00,010
[bruno_caron]: oh
553
00:25:59,972 –> 00:26:04,820
[branislav_nikolic]: of location was that there are some
strategies when you look on a forecast a
554
00:26:04,900 –> 00:26:08,266
[branislav_nikolic]: basis they don’t even bee to fix
rate again fixed rate a year ago we
555
00:26:08,286 –> 00:26:12,132
[branislav_nikolic]: wouldn’t be even talking about it but
today it is like three or four five
556
00:26:12,212 –> 00:26:12,693
[branislav_nikolic]: percent
557
00:26:13,031 –> 00:26:13,444
[laurence]: hm
558
00:26:13,294 –> 00:26:14,136
[branislav_nikolic]: and you have a strategy
559
00:26:13,789 –> 00:26:14,072
[bruno_caron]: yah
560
00:26:14,216 –> 00:26:15,197
[branislav_nikolic]: they have a forecast that
561
00:26:15,288 –> 00:26:15,349
[bruno_caron]: ah
562
00:26:15,297 –> 00:26:20,807
[branislav_nikolic]: any yield or return less than that
now that begs the question why at all
563
00:26:20,887 –> 00:26:26,674
[branislav_nikolic]: participate why don’t ye some of the
security of the high fixed rates going forward
564
00:26:27,094 –> 00:26:31,579
[branislav_nikolic]: and combine that with some with some
other industries again what five per cent will
565
00:26:32,360 –> 00:26:35,605
[branislav_nikolic]: keep you up with inflation of seven
i don’t think so but i don’t think
566
00:26:35,665 –> 00:26:39,431
[branislav_nikolic]: inflation of seven is going to be
year after year so a lot of a
567
00:26:39,491 –> 00:26:43,618
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of things to unpack and it’s
why i think that locating across everything that’s
568
00:26:43,658 –> 00:26:54,384
[branislav_nikolic]: available within annuity looking into this is
the recification strategy versification banking on historically high
569
00:26:54,765 –> 00:26:58,658
[branislav_nikolic]: rates i think there’s a lot a
lot to consider
570
00:26:59,714 –> 00:27:03,200
[laurence]: and actually barn said there’s also another
complexity you sort of people have the choice
571
00:27:03,260 –> 00:27:06,546
[laurence]: sort i choose a one year point
to point or two year or three year
572
00:27:06,766 –> 00:27:10,933
[laurence]: up to a six year right and
that’s another complexity that we look at and
573
00:27:10,993 –> 00:27:13,821
[laurence]: try figure that out so yeah there’s
a lot going on in these in these
574
00:27:13,881 –> 00:27:14,142
[laurence]: products
575
00:27:16,919 –> 00:27:17,400
[bruno_caron]: a lot’s going
576
00:27:17,377 –> 00:27:17,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
577
00:27:17,480 –> 00:27:21,587
[bruno_caron]: on to say the least and i
think there’s a lot of material in what
578
00:27:22,489 –> 00:27:24,292
[bruno_caron]: to unpack and what you just said
579
00:27:25,050 –> 00:27:25,920
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
580
00:27:25,113 –> 00:27:34,108
[bruno_caron]: in terms of decumulation the sequence of
return uh and all that diversification um if
581
00:27:34,268 –> 00:27:39,657
[bruno_caron]: we put all the pieces together you
you mentioned that
582
00:27:39,547 –> 00:27:39,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
583
00:27:39,797 –> 00:27:48,852
[bruno_caron]: yeah you’re launching this the model application
for for f i as um first of
584
00:27:48,893 –> 00:27:53,200
[bruno_caron]: all can you tell us a little
bit of you know some of the uh
585
00:27:53,661 –> 00:28:00,452
[bruno_caron]: the time line behind that and what
does that mean ultimately for for the consumer
586
00:28:00,592 –> 00:28:04,681
[bruno_caron]: and how are they going to be
able to use that that’s past to
587
00:28:06,314 –> 00:28:10,361
[laurence]: thanks bruno so we’ve we’ve been working
on this for the last year it’s taken
588
00:28:10,441 –> 00:28:16,291
[laurence]: us some time to model out more
than three thousand crediting strategies and then figure
589
00:28:16,371 –> 00:28:17,613
[laurence]: out an application so
590
00:28:17,580 –> 00:28:17,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
591
00:28:17,794 –> 00:28:19,837
[laurence]: you’re going to be launching in january
592
00:28:20,169 –> 00:28:20,349
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
593
00:28:20,578 –> 00:28:24,565
[laurence]: um you know we’re starting to tell
people and in fact we’re grateful to be
594
00:28:24,645 –> 00:28:27,910
[laurence]: here on on the on the podcast
right now and that’s part of our mission
595
00:28:27,990 –> 00:28:32,658
[laurence]: to tell people and so through the
course of december we’ll be letting a lot
596
00:28:32,698 –> 00:28:37,727
[laurence]: of our partners insurance carriers know and
then mid mid to end of jane we’ll
597
00:28:37,767 –> 00:28:41,172
[laurence]: be launching formally going to market and
telling everyone about it
598
00:28:41,311 –> 00:28:41,351
[branislav_nikolic]: m
599
00:28:41,633 –> 00:28:42,454
[laurence]: make and available
600
00:28:42,579 –> 00:28:42,600
[branislav_nikolic]: m
601
00:28:42,955 –> 00:28:47,300
[laurence]: we’ve already got one or two partners
who’ve signed on so we’re excited because it
602
00:28:47,340 –> 00:28:49,503
[laurence]: helps our mission we want to see
people do better
603
00:28:52,717 –> 00:28:53,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was
604
00:28:53,160 –> 00:28:53,381
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
605
00:28:53,638 –> 00:29:03,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: i was recently in a conversation with
listen fairly sizable financial institution in you know
606
00:29:03,271 –> 00:29:09,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the advisory space i’ll say and
they were trying to figure out different ways
607
00:29:09,139 –> 00:29:15,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to incorporate more annuities into their
their platform and one of the challenges was
608
00:29:15,570 –> 00:29:21,240
[ramsey_d_smith]: that increasingly the advisors were being asked
less and less to make investment decisions and
609
00:29:21,260 –> 00:29:25,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were more focused on relationship management
and so the implication of that is that
610
00:29:25,687 –> 00:29:25,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: the
611
00:29:25,944 –> 00:29:26,089
[laurence]: yeah
612
00:29:26,308 –> 00:29:32,703
[ramsey_d_smith]: that the investment strategies the acid application
strategies actually come from a central source right
613
00:29:33,085 –> 00:29:36,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the centralized sources need to use
614
00:29:36,157 –> 00:29:36,342
[laurence]: yeah
615
00:29:36,568 –> 00:29:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: rely on models that use a lot
of data and so you think about use
616
00:29:41,717 –> 00:29:47,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: cases what you’re building here lawrence and
brandaslav is that you’re bringing you’re bringing robt
617
00:29:47,748 –> 00:29:53,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: data you know where it didn’t exist
before so that it can potentially be used
618
00:29:53,384 –> 00:29:57,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: at a you know at a sort
of an entity level
619
00:29:57,137 –> 00:29:57,281
[laurence]: kay
620
00:29:57,331 –> 00:30:01,117
[ramsey_d_smith]: if you will i like to call
it factory settings right at an entity level
621
00:30:01,698 –> 00:30:07,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: nd level for larger financial institutions so
that at the end of the day know
622
00:30:07,347 –> 00:30:11,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: the advisor the advisor will be able
to rely on something that’s been fully veded
623
00:30:11,655 –> 00:30:15,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: at an institutional level but in order
for all that to work you know you
624
00:30:15,641 –> 00:30:20,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: have to have reliable data and to
your point earlier it didn’t really didn’t exist
625
00:30:20,469 –> 00:30:27,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: across the whole sort of spectrum of
offerings until guys launch this product so grat
626
00:30:30,174 –> 00:30:34,061
[laurence]: yeah thank you know i’ll make a
remark and then see if brandon has anything
627
00:30:34,121 –> 00:30:38,268
[laurence]: to add you know one of the
things we see having worked for a large
628
00:30:38,328 –> 00:30:42,876
[laurence]: financial institution in my in my prior
life one of the key things is everyone
629
00:30:42,956 –> 00:30:44,920
[laurence]: wants some kind of forecast
630
00:30:45,007 –> 00:30:45,108
[paul_tyler]: ah
631
00:30:45,301 –> 00:30:50,912
[laurence]: expected returns expected volatility what’s the correlation
they need those to plug into their model
632
00:30:52,064 –> 00:30:55,369
[laurence]: and in the annuity space there’s been
nothing now with what we do at the
633
00:30:55,429 –> 00:31:00,758
[laurence]: ende standard we’re able to provide expected
returns expected volatility and we know the correlation
634
00:31:00,838 –> 00:31:06,330
[laurence]: so we can help feel those those
dis sons that these institutions are having we
635
00:31:06,390 –> 00:31:12,104
[laurence]: can provide the imputs and i think
my final observation is this that i think
636
00:31:12,144 –> 00:31:17,473
[laurence]: if you were to use some of
the expect to expected returns we see i
637
00:31:17,553 –> 00:31:21,901
[laurence]: think the annuities would get a bigger
allocation than they have been because you know
638
00:31:21,981 –> 00:31:26,369
[laurence]: they have no downside risking case of
fear arilayouknow it’s kept and some
639
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:26,640
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
640
00:31:26,409 –> 00:31:30,416
[laurence]: of the expected returns might be three
four five six very consistent so i think
641
00:31:30,437 –> 00:31:33,082
[laurence]: they get a larger allocation and that
would surprise
642
00:31:32,802 –> 00:31:32,967
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
643
00:31:33,142 –> 00:31:34,744
[laurence]: a lot of people brand left
644
00:31:35,852 –> 00:31:40,440
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah i think there’s there’s like to
two levels of this conversation one is how
645
00:31:40,480 –> 00:31:44,667
[branislav_nikolic]: do you incorporate is in the broader
porfolia and when lawrence mentioned knowing what this
646
00:31:44,727 –> 00:31:50,597
[branislav_nikolic]: could return at what level of i
think would make advisors more comfortable again we
647
00:31:50,677 –> 00:31:55,565
[branislav_nikolic]: have a generation of advisors who grew
up in a in a bull market right
648
00:31:55,705 –> 00:32:02,256
[branislav_nikolic]: and would you ever consider an annuity
a safe investment downside when you never had
649
00:32:02,356 –> 00:32:06,183
[branislav_nikolic]: to now i think we are getting
to that realization that that that that’s goin
650
00:32:06,223 –> 00:32:11,652
[branislav_nikolic]: to start happening and again a lot
of great too is available out there a
651
00:32:11,712 –> 00:32:18,643
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of a lot of parties providing
phenomenal either end to end processes or optimal
652
00:32:18,784 –> 00:32:25,398
[branislav_nikolic]: product locations or simulators of how well
you do where you lock should locate your
653
00:32:25,498 –> 00:32:31,701
[branislav_nikolic]: assets the key is that no one
knew how to project ger quotes the annuity
654
00:32:31,781 –> 00:32:32,943
[branislav_nikolic]: going forward and i
655
00:32:33,013 –> 00:32:33,034
[laurence]: m
656
00:32:33,023 –> 00:32:36,487
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is this is important piece
that we that we bring bring bring to
657
00:32:36,547 –> 00:32:36,627
[branislav_nikolic]: the
658
00:32:36,561 –> 00:32:36,643
[paul_tyler]: ah
659
00:32:36,667 –> 00:32:44,366
[branislav_nikolic]: table again something that it’s showing not
only in the retail market but
660
00:32:44,376 –> 00:32:45,516
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah
661
00:32:44,447 –> 00:32:49,495
[branislav_nikolic]: more importantly now spilling over into an
institutional market as well the people are adopting
662
00:32:49,555 –> 00:32:55,685
[branislav_nikolic]: these concepts d c pension plan level
that really kind of add the validity to
663
00:32:55,765 –> 00:33:00,493
[branislav_nikolic]: it and it kind of adds to
the eds conversation that if super conservative folks
664
00:33:00,694 –> 00:33:02,637
[branislav_nikolic]: and legal kind of legally aware
665
00:33:03,146 –> 00:33:03,896
[paul_tyler]: oh
666
00:33:04,361 –> 00:33:09,062
[branislav_nikolic]: are considering adding these into the mix
had to be a good thing so so
667
00:33:09,162 –> 00:33:12,846
[branislav_nikolic]: so at a lot a lot is
happening and we we we love to be
668
00:33:13,006 –> 00:33:15,049
[branislav_nikolic]: to be a part of part of
that conversation for sure
669
00:33:14,946 –> 00:33:15,127
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh
670
00:33:15,786 –> 00:33:20,534
[paul_tyler]: no i honestly think you could be
the next morning star right in the
671
00:33:20,670 –> 00:33:21,270
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
672
00:33:21,055 –> 00:33:23,919
[paul_tyler]: space i don’t know if that infringes
on cope
673
00:33:23,820 –> 00:33:24,265
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
674
00:33:24,040 –> 00:33:24,540
[paul_tyler]: rites but
675
00:33:24,484 –> 00:33:24,705
[laurence]: oh
676
00:33:25,101 –> 00:33:25,602
[paul_tyler]: lawrence that’s what
677
00:33:25,590 –> 00:33:25,870
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
678
00:33:25,642 –> 00:33:25,983
[paul_tyler]: i call you
679
00:33:26,631 –> 00:33:26,872
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
680
00:33:26,684 –> 00:33:30,711
[paul_tyler]: so you know ve been doing so
much work with you know agents helping themselves
681
00:33:30,791 –> 00:33:31,232
[paul_tyler]: digitally
682
00:33:30,999 –> 00:33:31,200
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
683
00:33:31,312 –> 00:33:33,495
[paul_tyler]: tell a story talking to consumers
684
00:33:33,345 –> 00:33:33,366
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
685
00:33:34,016 –> 00:33:39,525
[paul_tyler]: you know what goes through your mind
when you think about trying explain something this
686
00:33:39,626 –> 00:33:43,439
[paul_tyler]: complex on a website in a brosirt
in a video
687
00:33:43,609 –> 00:33:48,051
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm yeah i mean when i think
lawrence i heard you talk about you know
688
00:33:48,292 –> 00:33:51,196
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the mer and missus smith or the
generic consumer
689
00:33:51,630 –> 00:33:52,710
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
690
00:33:51,757 –> 00:33:57,648
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: are retiring out there thinking about planning
and de mystifying the idea of an annuity
691
00:33:57,709 –> 00:34:04,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: and the complexities of what we’re talking
about how does your presentation or or the
692
00:34:04,933 –> 00:34:08,679
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: educational tools at you’re offering how does
it break it down for them to kind
693
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,849
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of combat the emotional side of the
decision right um you’ve talked about the changing
694
00:34:15,911 –> 00:34:18,896
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: interest rates and inflation and all the
things that are ahead and a lot of
695
00:34:18,936 –> 00:34:23,183
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the unknowns that are on head ahead
how does the tool kind of speak to
696
00:34:23,223 –> 00:34:23,384
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that
697
00:34:23,454 –> 00:34:23,596
[laurence]: yeah
698
00:34:23,564 –> 00:34:26,688
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: emotional side oh i’ll say fear but
699
00:34:27,314 –> 00:34:27,743
[laurence]: damn
700
00:34:27,469 –> 00:34:30,953
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at least sort of that uncertainty that’s
ahead and that agent or advisor bringing him
701
00:34:31,013 –> 00:34:32,875
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: through those conversations
702
00:34:32,190 –> 00:34:33,090
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
703
00:34:34,354 –> 00:34:39,723
[laurence]: i think in a couple ways so
firstly what we do is for each index
704
00:34:39,943 –> 00:34:44,010
[laurence]: we evaluated so we’ll put a platinum
gold and silver
705
00:34:43,746 –> 00:34:43,908
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay
706
00:34:44,070 –> 00:34:44,992
[laurence]: and so on so that
707
00:34:45,028 –> 00:34:45,495
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: got reading
708
00:34:45,392 –> 00:34:48,718
[laurence]: you can add glance see what that
index is doing so it
709
00:34:48,722 –> 00:34:49,236
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm
710
00:34:48,758 –> 00:34:52,604
[laurence]: might be a little bit unfamiliar but
you get our sort of stamp of whether
711
00:34:52,644 –> 00:34:57,292
[laurence]: we think it’s a robust and well
designed index now the other thing we do
712
00:34:57,733 –> 00:35:03,445
[laurence]: is we all know finance is complex
and people love to use complicated
713
00:35:03,330 –> 00:35:03,596
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
714
00:35:03,505 –> 00:35:04,368
[laurence]: language so we actually
715
00:35:04,290 –> 00:35:05,460
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
716
00:35:04,448 –> 00:35:06,052
[laurence]: have a copy writer on our staff
717
00:35:06,177 –> 00:35:06,360
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay
718
00:35:06,714 –> 00:35:10,484
[laurence]: and we try and use straight forward
and clear language so i give you the
719
00:35:10,544 –> 00:35:16,560
[laurence]: example the way we would describe a
risk control index we just say cushions and
720
00:35:16,620 –> 00:35:17,102
[laurence]: it’s smooth
721
00:35:18,369 –> 00:35:18,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah
722
00:35:18,504 –> 00:35:22,472
[laurence]: and then the final thing that we
do is we have our forecasting reports
723
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:23,041
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
724
00:35:23,804 –> 00:35:26,711
[laurence]: and we very clearly show here that
the last ten
725
00:35:26,639 –> 00:35:26,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
726
00:35:26,771 –> 00:35:32,121
[laurence]: years maybe you got let’s say six
per cent and then here is what how
727
00:35:32,201 –> 00:35:35,206
[laurence]: we applied the wisdom of wall street
to that index and maybe you’re gonna get
728
00:35:35,867 –> 00:35:40,415
[laurence]: seven eight or nine or maybe you
got sixteen in history and we think you’re
729
00:35:40,435 –> 00:35:44,181
[laurence]: going to get full but we have
very clear bar chart so we try and
730
00:35:44,261 –> 00:35:52,475
[laurence]: provide people with visual simple language and
easy to understand demonicaswgoald platinum and
731
00:35:52,466 –> 00:35:53,156
[paul_tyler]: yeah
732
00:35:52,535 –> 00:35:52,836
[laurence]: so on
733
00:35:52,827 –> 00:35:53,256
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm
734
00:35:53,217 –> 00:35:55,683
[laurence]: to really help people when they’re making
those decisions
735
00:35:55,976 –> 00:35:56,436
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah the gold
736
00:35:56,317 –> 00:35:56,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah
737
00:35:56,476 –> 00:35:58,578
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: silver plate that’s you know those are
the star
738
00:35:58,556 –> 00:35:58,879
[paul_tyler]: oh
739
00:35:58,678 –> 00:35:59,579
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: reviews rights really
740
00:35:59,486 –> 00:35:59,707
[paul_tyler]: oh
741
00:35:59,679 –> 00:36:00,140
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at a glance
742
00:36:00,990 –> 00:36:01,231
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
743
00:36:01,261 –> 00:36:02,662
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: here’s the top middle and maybe
744
00:36:02,899 –> 00:36:03,039
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
745
00:36:03,142 –> 00:36:03,282
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: not
746
00:36:03,326 –> 00:36:03,694
[paul_tyler]: oh
747
00:36:03,382 –> 00:36:04,383
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so good
748
00:36:04,755 –> 00:36:05,159
[laurence]: exactly
749
00:36:05,216 –> 00:36:05,396
[paul_tyler]: yeah
750
00:36:05,700 –> 00:36:06,143
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
751
00:36:05,765 –> 00:36:06,105
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you
752
00:36:06,918 –> 00:36:06,938
[paul_tyler]: i
753
00:36:07,006 –> 00:36:07,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
754
00:36:07,058 –> 00:36:09,320
[paul_tyler]: love it bruno you know we’re close
to the top
755
00:36:09,318 –> 00:36:09,339
[branislav_nikolic]: a
756
00:36:09,360 –> 00:36:09,881
[paul_tyler]: of the hour i mean
757
00:36:09,937 –> 00:36:10,139
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
758
00:36:09,941 –> 00:36:11,622
[paul_tyler]: what are your what
759
00:36:11,557 –> 00:36:11,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
760
00:36:11,662 –> 00:36:11,863
[paul_tyler]: are your
761
00:36:11,860 –> 00:36:11,940
[bruno_caron]: ah
762
00:36:11,883 –> 00:36:13,464
[paul_tyler]: thoughts questions observations
763
00:36:14,324 –> 00:36:14,544
[bruno_caron]: well
764
00:36:14,846 –> 00:36:15,626
[paul_tyler]: oh
765
00:36:15,085 –> 00:36:16,307
[bruno_caron]: number one i think it’s
766
00:36:16,567 –> 00:36:16,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
767
00:36:17,469 –> 00:36:18,391
[bruno_caron]: it’s wonderful
768
00:36:18,307 –> 00:36:18,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
769
00:36:18,511 –> 00:36:23,138
[bruno_caron]: that we’re going back or at least
you guys are going back to some of
770
00:36:23,319 –> 00:36:28,828
[bruno_caron]: basic some of the textbook concepts i
mean we live in a world of headlines
771
00:36:29,189 –> 00:36:29,489
[bruno_caron]: and you
772
00:36:29,460 –> 00:36:29,763
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
773
00:36:29,509 –> 00:36:33,516
[bruno_caron]: know this is going on this is
going to just the fact that you’re framing
774
00:36:33,556 –> 00:36:38,524
[bruno_caron]: it that you’re actually putting it in
to a um some sort of framework some
775
00:36:38,584 –> 00:36:44,494
[bruno_caron]: sort of boundaries and sort of ratings
and in perspective with with the rest of
776
00:36:44,514 –> 00:36:49,242
[bruno_caron]: the economy i think that adds significant
value and i think that’s a that’s a
777
00:36:49,302 –> 00:36:52,386
[bruno_caron]: really that’s a very useful set for
for the industry
778
00:36:52,216 –> 00:36:52,237
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
779
00:36:54,138 –> 00:36:54,499
[paul_tyler]: ramsey
780
00:36:54,205 –> 00:36:54,512
[laurence]: thank you
781
00:36:55,057 –> 00:36:55,341
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
782
00:36:55,112 –> 00:36:55,377
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you
783
00:36:55,423 –> 00:36:56,126
[paul_tyler]: you want you want to bring
784
00:36:56,174 –> 00:36:56,317
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
785
00:36:56,187 –> 00:36:56,448
[paul_tyler]: us some
786
00:36:57,027 –> 00:37:02,195
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah so i wholeheartedly agree this is
this is an area that’s expanded
787
00:37:03,026 –> 00:37:03,312
[paul_tyler]: oh
788
00:37:03,187 –> 00:37:06,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: dramatically and again the choices expanded
789
00:37:06,656 –> 00:37:06,923
[paul_tyler]: oh
790
00:37:06,753 –> 00:37:10,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: much more quickly than the analytical framework
behind it and
791
00:37:10,925 –> 00:37:10,946
[paul_tyler]: m
792
00:37:11,200 –> 00:37:15,447
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know we live in a we
live in an environment where the elytics
793
00:37:15,390 –> 00:37:15,755
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
794
00:37:15,487 –> 00:37:18,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: are important they’re important for legal reasons
they’re important for
795
00:37:18,101 –> 00:37:18,202
[branislav_nikolic]: ah
796
00:37:18,432 –> 00:37:23,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: just helping people make the make the
right decision they’re important for helping people feel
797
00:37:23,921 –> 00:37:30,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: comfortable with their decisions and you know
as as i mentioned before i think it’s
798
00:37:30,592 –> 00:37:36,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: going to be useful certainly at the
consumer level at the advisor level i think
799
00:37:36,742 –> 00:37:42,249
[ramsey_d_smith]: very importantly at the institutional level where
you know the burdens of the burdens of
800
00:37:42,870 –> 00:37:46,513
[ramsey_d_smith]: proof if you will are very high
i think that this is this is this
801
00:37:46,573 –> 00:37:51,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: is going to be very important and
and it’s something that gets asked about a
802
00:37:51,407 –> 00:37:53,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of meetings when you’re if you’re
talking to
803
00:37:53,824 –> 00:37:54,454
[laurence]: oh
804
00:37:53,971 –> 00:37:57,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: larger insurance companies and this is something
that comes up a lot this isn’t this
805
00:37:57,537 –> 00:38:02,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: has been an unanswered question so i
think this is this is this is this
806
00:38:02,325 –> 00:38:03,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a great initiative
807
00:38:05,656 –> 00:38:07,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah lawrence you know you saw
808
00:38:08,107 –> 00:38:08,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
809
00:38:08,180 –> 00:38:08,841
[paul_tyler]: afa on
810
00:38:08,880 –> 00:38:09,750
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
811
00:38:09,602 –> 00:38:10,163
[paul_tyler]: that discussion
812
00:38:10,140 –> 00:38:10,321
[branislav_nikolic]: ye
813
00:38:10,243 –> 00:38:11,926
[paul_tyler]: panel how much
814
00:38:12,157 –> 00:38:12,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
815
00:38:12,780 –> 00:38:13,620
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
816
00:38:13,248 –> 00:38:14,491
[paul_tyler]: independent marketing organizations
817
00:38:14,122 –> 00:38:14,286
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
818
00:38:14,891 –> 00:38:18,577
[paul_tyler]: need this type of tool for their
marketers and for their agent so i think
819
00:38:18,617 –> 00:38:23,382
[paul_tyler]: the time couldn’t be better what’s the
best way for people to find out more
820
00:38:23,462 –> 00:38:26,024
[paul_tyler]: about your product or reach out to
you personally
821
00:38:27,034 –> 00:38:33,965
[laurence]: sure so our website has a lot
of greater information and that’s the index standard
822
00:38:34,025 –> 00:38:38,854
[laurence]: dot com and you can email us
at info at the index standard dot com
823
00:38:39,475 –> 00:38:44,062
[laurence]: i’m also pretty active on linked in
so brandon slab please follow us we also
824
00:38:44,122 –> 00:38:48,229
[laurence]: have linked in at the index standard
follow us and we kind of put some
825
00:38:48,429 –> 00:38:51,786
[laurence]: our insights there and of course our
newsletter as well with with you guys
826
00:38:52,516 –> 00:38:55,721
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well listen thanks so
much for joining us we
827
00:38:55,770 –> 00:38:56,011
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
828
00:38:55,781 –> 00:39:00,509
[paul_tyler]: want to thank all our listeners and
you know please give us feedback comments and
829
00:39:00,649 –> 00:39:02,412
[paul_tyler]: as long as they’re good bruno i
830
00:39:02,400 –> 00:39:02,701
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
831
00:39:02,492 –> 00:39:02,713
[paul_tyler]: actually
832
00:39:02,644 –> 00:39:02,726
[laurence]: ye
833
00:39:02,733 –> 00:39:04,676
[paul_tyler]: had somebody coming on my audio
834
00:39:04,661 –> 00:39:04,681
[branislav_nikolic]: m
835
00:39:04,796 –> 00:39:05,518
[paul_tyler]: editing skills and
836
00:39:06,319 –> 00:39:09,769
[bruno_caron]: uh
837
00:39:06,720 –> 00:39:06,981
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
838
00:39:07,601 –> 00:39:08,462
[paul_tyler]: a lack thereof
839
00:39:08,688 –> 00:39:08,889
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
840
00:39:09,244 –> 00:39:10,826
[paul_tyler]: so we we welcome all
841
00:39:10,710 –> 00:39:10,930
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
842
00:39:11,067 –> 00:39:13,050
[paul_tyler]: and you know listen join us again
next
843
00:39:13,058 –> 00:39:13,078
[bruno_caron]: h
844
00:39:13,150 –> 00:39:16,316
[paul_tyler]: week for another episode of that annuity
845
00:39:16,419 –> 00:39:16,479
[branislav_nikolic]: ah
846
00:39:16,436 –> 00:39:17,242
[paul_tyler]: show thanks
847
00:39:20,767 –> 00:39:21,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
848
00:39:33,487 –> 00:39:37,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh oh
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