Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates

Show Sponsors

Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:02,876 –> 00:00:03,016
[paul_tyler]: hi

2
00:00:03,090 –> 00:00:04,200
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

3
00:00:03,116 –> 00:00:07,890
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show bruno

4
00:00:07,860 –> 00:00:08,730
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

5
00:00:08,613 –> 00:00:08,954
[paul_tyler]: welcome

6
00:00:10,139 –> 00:00:13,725
[bruno_caron]: thank you great to be here and
excited about

7
00:00:13,746 –> 00:00:14,066
[paul_tyler]: tessa

8
00:00:13,765 –> 00:00:14,166
[bruno_caron]: our guests

9
00:00:14,267 –> 00:00:17,934
[paul_tyler]: glad you got your yahyeahtisa good to
see you

10
00:00:18,752 –> 00:00:19,429
[bruno_caron]: yeah

11
00:00:18,828 –> 00:00:19,739
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: to see you good morning

12
00:00:20,266 –> 00:00:21,268
[paul_tyler]: yeah we’ve been

13
00:00:21,238 –> 00:00:21,259
[bruno_caron]: m

14
00:00:21,308 –> 00:00:24,353
[paul_tyler]: busy on a lot of fronts last
few weeks haven’t we

15
00:00:25,320 –> 00:00:25,340
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

16
00:00:25,535 –> 00:00:26,557
[paul_tyler]: and ramsey looks

17
00:00:26,400 –> 00:00:26,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

18
00:00:26,597 –> 00:00:29,722
[paul_tyler]: like you’re i think you’re broadcasting from
an undisclosed location today

19
00:00:30,177 –> 00:00:30,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: indeed

20
00:00:30,343 –> 00:00:30,684
[paul_tyler]: correct

21
00:00:30,698 –> 00:00:32,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: looks kind of like a wine seller
doesn’t it but

22
00:00:33,076 –> 00:00:33,257
[paul_tyler]: yeah

23
00:00:33,756 –> 00:00:33,776
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

24
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:34,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not

25
00:00:35,585 –> 00:00:36,169
[paul_tyler]: yeah ah

26
00:00:36,387 –> 00:00:37,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very

27
00:00:36,975 –> 00:00:37,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

28
00:00:37,168 –> 00:00:37,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: happy

29
00:00:37,272 –> 00:00:37,416
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

30
00:00:37,449 –> 00:00:43,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: to be here and really excited to
welcome lawrence black in the end standard uh

31
00:00:44,040 –> 00:00:48,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: the the index standard has been our
lead sponsor for the better part of the

32
00:00:48,287 –> 00:00:52,434
[ramsey_d_smith]: last year so we’re really excited to
have them on they’re doing a lot of

33
00:00:52,494 –> 00:01:01,329
[ramsey_d_smith]: very interesting things in and helping the
the index community unpack the best way to

34
00:01:01,429 –> 00:01:06,257
[ramsey_d_smith]: allocate industies and the best way to
understand their role in a broader portfolio so

35
00:01:06,638 –> 00:01:10,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: with that lawrence i want to start
out with you and you also have a

36
00:01:11,227 –> 00:01:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: special guest a new addition to your
team you’re going to want to introduce

37
00:01:13,479 –> 00:01:13,500
[branislav_nikolic]: m

38
00:01:13,772 –> 00:01:15,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: as well so i will pass it
on to you for that

39
00:01:15,374 –> 00:01:21,180
[laurence]: indeed so good morning every one it’s
great to join you so as you guys

40
00:01:21,240 –> 00:01:24,285
[laurence]: know it i’ve been with you a
couple of times in the past great to

41
00:01:24,325 –> 00:01:28,913
[laurence]: be back here again and i’m delighted
to introduce brand nicolitch who’s just joined us

42
00:01:29,013 –> 00:01:31,659
[laurence]: from from begpardon let me try a
re

43
00:01:31,749 –> 00:01:31,770
[branislav_nikolic]: m

44
00:01:31,759 –> 00:01:37,289
[laurence]: do that again hey good morning it’s
great to join you i’m delighted to introduce

45
00:01:37,630 –> 00:01:38,732
[laurence]: branslanicolich

46
00:01:38,197 –> 00:01:38,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

47
00:01:38,852 –> 00:01:43,880
[laurence]: who’s just joined us from chanics he
was ahead of research and he was therefore

48
00:01:43,940 –> 00:01:48,527
[laurence]: about almost a decade and the index
standard we’ve got a lot of index expertise

49
00:01:48,627 –> 00:01:51,150
[laurence]: and it’s great to kind of expand
our capabilities

50
00:01:50,542 –> 00:01:50,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

51
00:01:51,250 –> 00:01:54,073
[laurence]: with brand slabs in depth insurance knowledge

52
00:01:56,547 –> 00:01:57,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

53
00:01:56,846 –> 00:01:57,887
[paul_tyler]: welcome yeah

54
00:01:58,150 –> 00:01:58,936
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you extremely

55
00:01:58,708 –> 00:01:58,908
[paul_tyler]: you want

56
00:01:58,976 –> 00:01:59,661
[branislav_nikolic]: happy to be here

57
00:02:00,529 –> 00:02:02,011
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah tell us

58
00:02:02,137 –> 00:02:02,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

59
00:02:02,611 –> 00:02:05,394
[paul_tyler]: tell us it’s a little bit about
your back story how did how did you

60
00:02:05,434 –> 00:02:07,055
[paul_tyler]: get into the annuity space

61
00:02:08,047 –> 00:02:08,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

62
00:02:08,720 –> 00:02:14,345
[branislav_nikolic]: so my story with annuities was polly
haphazard so old way through school i thought

63
00:02:14,385 –> 00:02:18,049
[branislav_nikolic]: i would end up on a trading
desk somewhere be a proper quant and i

64
00:02:18,389 –> 00:02:23,657
[branislav_nikolic]: had enormous luck to meet motinmilevsky extreme
early in my career and started working for

65
00:02:24,138 –> 00:02:28,465
[branislav_nikolic]: for his start up later joined chanics
which is again an industry leader on data

66
00:02:28,525 –> 00:02:36,578
[branislav_nikolic]: analytics for annuities spent good almost ten
years there leading research and really helping antics

67
00:02:36,699 –> 00:02:42,849
[branislav_nikolic]: build their capabilities in all sorts of
annuities in terms of platforms for exchanges that’s

68
00:02:42,909 –> 00:02:49,059
[branislav_nikolic]: how i lawrence and j and i
really saw the two missions extremely complimentary and

69
00:02:49,540 –> 00:02:54,048
[branislav_nikolic]: i always saw the index as a
fuel to the annuity and i always was

70
00:02:54,088 –> 00:02:55,530
[branislav_nikolic]: saying that it’s important these

71
00:02:55,417 –> 00:02:55,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

72
00:02:55,590 –> 00:02:56,051
[branislav_nikolic]: two things

73
00:02:56,317 –> 00:02:57,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

74
00:02:56,392 –> 00:03:01,042
[branislav_nikolic]: evaluated together so we started talking and
i’m extremely happy to have joined the team

75
00:03:01,183 –> 00:03:03,608
[branislav_nikolic]: and to be side by side with
lawrence and j

76
00:03:04,387 –> 00:03:05,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

77
00:03:04,446 –> 00:03:04,566
[paul_tyler]: ah

78
00:03:04,770 –> 00:03:05,012
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

79
00:03:05,608 –> 00:03:11,217
[paul_tyler]: lawrence so actually we saw each other
in person it was it was tremendous i

80
00:03:11,885 –> 00:03:12,210
[laurence]: indeed

81
00:03:11,978 –> 00:03:16,846
[paul_tyler]: i made the very last minute decision
to tend naa this year and a f

82
00:03:16,987 –> 00:03:20,392
[paul_tyler]: a for those of you who were
wont to look at this up had their

83
00:03:20,432 –> 00:03:26,543
[paul_tyler]: conference in california showed up and lawrence
you were on a great platform talking about

84
00:03:27,104 –> 00:03:32,272
[paul_tyler]: kind of the landscape of product design
and industiesn maybe for our audience you could

85
00:03:32,312 –> 00:03:36,279
[paul_tyler]: just sort of give us talk to
us a little bit more about the problem

86
00:03:36,339 –> 00:03:40,529
[paul_tyler]: you’re solving and you know what’s taking
place in the market today

87
00:03:41,924 –> 00:03:46,531
[laurence]: sure thanks paul because you know a
lot is happening so let me just sort

88
00:03:46,572 –> 00:03:48,415
[laurence]: of give everyone little bit of background
about what we

89
00:03:48,487 –> 00:03:48,729
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

90
00:03:48,595 –> 00:03:52,762
[laurence]: do so at the end of standard
we all know there’s so much complexity in

91
00:03:52,802 –> 00:03:57,287
[laurence]: this market with induces and the pay
offs so what we do at the end

92
00:03:57,347 –> 00:04:04,714
[laurence]: next standard which were really trying to
simplify decode and mystify all this complexity and

93
00:04:04,754 –> 00:04:07,641
[laurence]: we do it in a couple of
ways we’ve got a lot of research

94
00:04:07,490 –> 00:04:07,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: he

95
00:04:07,821 –> 00:04:12,372
[laurence]: that we help people giving them insights
as to what products and industries to select

96
00:04:13,664 –> 00:04:19,880
[laurence]: we also actually rate and evaluate every
single index used in the insurance space we

97
00:04:19,980 –> 00:04:25,751
[laurence]: give it a platinum gold silver bronze
rating and then we actually have some forward

98
00:04:25,791 –> 00:04:29,617
[laurence]: looking forecast to help people think about
the future because we all know the future

99
00:04:29,657 –> 00:04:33,223
[laurence]: is going to be different so we
have some forecast and then we’ve actually on

100
00:04:33,263 –> 00:04:38,853
[laurence]: the of these forecasts we’ve actually launched
some model allications so allicating

101
00:04:38,471 –> 00:04:38,657
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

102
00:04:38,913 –> 00:04:43,420
[laurence]: to an annuity can be really tough
with sort of fifteen crediting lines so we’ve

103
00:04:43,480 –> 00:04:45,343
[laurence]: actually built a tool to help people
with

104
00:04:45,607 –> 00:04:45,767
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

105
00:04:45,746 –> 00:04:51,431
[laurence]: a tough selection now i just want
to give you some background about the index

106
00:04:51,611 –> 00:04:53,816
[laurence]: industry so one interesting

107
00:04:53,616 –> 00:04:53,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

108
00:04:53,936 –> 00:04:58,725
[laurence]: fact it’s actually almost a trillion dollar
industry no one knows about it so i

109
00:04:58,805 –> 00:05:00,268
[laurence]: call it like a niche market

110
00:04:59,892 –> 00:04:59,973
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

111
00:05:00,468 –> 00:05:01,370
[laurence]: that’s a trillion dollars

112
00:05:01,117 –> 00:05:01,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

113
00:05:02,371 –> 00:05:06,739
[laurence]: so you know we see in the
u s insurance space there’s probably is the

114
00:05:06,859 –> 00:05:12,573
[laurence]: bulk of risk control industries probably about
half that but actually risk control industries are

115
00:05:12,734 –> 00:05:13,878
[laurence]: used in germany

116
00:05:14,137 –> 00:05:15,427
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

117
00:05:14,339 –> 00:05:15,142
[laurence]: and in switzerland

118
00:05:15,457 –> 00:05:15,719
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

119
00:05:15,954 –> 00:05:17,139
[laurence]: actually used in the insurance

120
00:05:16,867 –> 00:05:17,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

121
00:05:17,179 –> 00:05:23,507
[laurence]: space they use risk control industries in
mutual funds then another big portion is structure

122
00:05:23,567 –> 00:05:29,236
[laurence]: products we estimate there’s probably two hundred
and fifty billion in instructure products that actually

123
00:05:29,337 –> 00:05:34,084
[laurence]: are linked to these risk control industries
and then actually you have this of bank

124
00:05:34,805 –> 00:05:41,030
[laurence]: market where they’re doing direct transactions with
big institutions that’s probably another two hundred billions

125
00:05:41,090 –> 00:05:44,153
[laurence]: so in total we think it’s around
about a trillion dollar market

126
00:05:46,128 –> 00:05:49,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that’s incredible i mean one of
the things though that is

127
00:05:49,410 –> 00:05:50,040
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

128
00:05:49,954 –> 00:05:54,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: that has been interesting about the market
is it’s gotten it’s been characterized by a

129
00:05:54,602 –> 00:05:58,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot more choice and there’s a lot
of value in an adit a choice but

130
00:05:58,949 –> 00:06:04,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: with with those choices becomes many many
more complicated decisions

131
00:06:04,874 –> 00:06:04,997
[laurence]: yeah

132
00:06:04,919 –> 00:06:08,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know so i guess a
question you know that that i have for

133
00:06:09,026 –> 00:06:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: you like so what sort of what
are your various target audiences i can see

134
00:06:13,952 –> 00:06:15,934
[ramsey_d_smith]: i can certainly see why retail retail

135
00:06:16,063 –> 00:06:16,084
[laurence]: m

136
00:06:16,194 –> 00:06:23,104
[ramsey_d_smith]: consumers would want to be able to
decode all the choices but i would imagine

137
00:06:23,165 –> 00:06:29,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: that institutions are almost similarly challenged so
what are your target audiences for your product

138
00:06:29,535 –> 00:06:31,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: lines yeah

139
00:06:31,535 –> 00:06:35,002
[laurence]: so we’re actually kind of targeting that
that whole gammit we want

140
00:06:34,921 –> 00:06:35,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

141
00:06:35,042 –> 00:06:41,234
[laurence]: to help organizations with the selection and
due diligence of these industies want to help

142
00:06:41,354 –> 00:06:45,181
[laurence]: organizations who selling them that they can
use our reports to kind of position them

143
00:06:45,842 –> 00:06:49,909
[laurence]: and and in the end consumer i
mean the main reason i’m actually here and

144
00:06:49,989 –> 00:06:53,575
[laurence]: doing this is i want m and
ms smith who are buying these policies to

145
00:06:53,675 –> 00:06:54,456
[laurence]: do better right

146
00:06:54,457 –> 00:06:54,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

147
00:06:54,777 –> 00:06:55,999
[laurence]: by building choosing

148
00:06:55,957 –> 00:06:56,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

149
00:06:56,119 –> 00:07:01,768
[laurence]: better industries and building diverse portfolios and
let me just make one quick comment about

150
00:07:01,609 –> 00:07:01,889
[bruno_caron]: oh

151
00:07:01,809 –> 00:07:02,670
[laurence]: the industries because

152
00:07:02,835 –> 00:07:02,856
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

153
00:07:03,031 –> 00:07:06,545
[laurence]: you know i think we hear a
lot about the comp lexity but also on

154
00:07:06,585 –> 00:07:11,813
[laurence]: the sort of flip side is actually
it’s really wonderful because what we’re now

155
00:07:11,917 –> 00:07:11,937
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

156
00:07:11,994 –> 00:07:18,064
[laurence]: seeing is a lot of the users
are actually getting access to techniques that only

157
00:07:18,204 –> 00:07:23,012
[laurence]: used by hedge funds or big pension
funds i can give any example there’s a

158
00:07:23,132 –> 00:07:28,662
[laurence]: technique called mean verace optimization just a
fancy way of saying give me the best

159
00:07:28,782 –> 00:07:33,913
[laurence]: aplication to target a certain level of
risk that was kind of actually harry make

160
00:07:33,993 –> 00:07:37,562
[laurence]: its came up with that technique in
the late fifties he wanted no ball prize

161
00:07:37,642 –> 00:07:41,626
[laurence]: for up until a couple of years
ago you only had big pension funds and

162
00:07:41,686 –> 00:07:47,550
[laurence]: big hedge funds were using that ut
now amazingly that technique is an indusies and

163
00:07:47,610 –> 00:07:52,119
[laurence]: we can all access that so that’s
actually a really wonderful innovation that all of

164
00:07:52,179 –> 00:07:52,980
[laurence]: us can use that

165
00:07:52,890 –> 00:07:53,133
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

166
00:07:53,287 –> 00:07:53,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

167
00:07:53,341 –> 00:07:53,982
[laurence]: to do better

168
00:07:54,028 –> 00:07:55,020
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah m

169
00:07:55,229 –> 00:08:00,498
[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s wonderful and can you talk
you talk a little bit more about those

170
00:08:01,399 –> 00:08:06,728
[bruno_caron]: those actual metrics and in practice what
type of metrics it you used to rate

171
00:08:06,989 –> 00:08:07,029
[bruno_caron]: s

172
00:08:07,567 –> 00:08:07,848
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

173
00:08:07,810 –> 00:08:13,199
[bruno_caron]: h i mean you list plenty in
terms of calculating and measuring those like like

174
00:08:13,279 –> 00:08:16,905
[bruno_caron]: capital risk metric efficiency metric return metric

175
00:08:19,477 –> 00:08:19,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

176
00:08:19,519 –> 00:08:21,783
[bruno_caron]: what are those metrics and what do
they mean

177
00:08:21,607 –> 00:08:21,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

178
00:08:21,943 –> 00:08:24,247
[bruno_caron]: for people who ultimately use them

179
00:08:25,424 –> 00:08:26,646
[laurence]: he great question bruno

180
00:08:26,689 –> 00:08:28,838
[bruno_caron]: yeah

181
00:08:26,806 –> 00:08:29,571
[laurence]: so we actually look at about thirty
five

182
00:08:29,359 –> 00:08:29,500
[bruno_caron]: yeah

183
00:08:29,671 –> 00:08:30,733
[laurence]: metrics and i’m going

184
00:08:30,732 –> 00:08:30,813
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

185
00:08:30,753 –> 00:08:32,536
[laurence]: to loosely break them down into

186
00:08:32,610 –> 00:08:32,871
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

187
00:08:32,756 –> 00:08:35,000
[laurence]: three groups so the first group is

188
00:08:35,119 –> 00:08:35,503
[bruno_caron]: yeah

189
00:08:35,621 –> 00:08:38,048
[laurence]: we really want to look at the
complex city of each

190
00:08:38,029 –> 00:08:38,393
[bruno_caron]: oh

191
00:08:38,189 –> 00:08:44,540
[laurence]: index how it’s designed and the availability
of the rules and who’s calculating that the

192
00:08:44,660 –> 00:08:51,346
[laurence]: key thing is is really that complexity
we’ll look at the dirt the diversification we’ll

193
00:08:51,366 –> 00:08:54,465
[laurence]: look and see if the rules are
available well look and see if there’s an

194
00:08:54,585 –> 00:08:56,308
[laurence]: independent index calculation

195
00:08:56,437 –> 00:08:56,663
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

196
00:08:56,448 –> 00:09:00,555
[laurence]: agent and we like to see those
things and by the way what we prefer

197
00:09:00,615 –> 00:09:04,241
[laurence]: to see when we’re looking at an
index is simpler is better than an index

198
00:09:04,362 –> 00:09:09,047
[laurence]: with lots of no second category is
what you touched on

199
00:09:09,139 –> 00:09:10,219
[bruno_caron]: oh

200
00:09:09,428 –> 00:09:10,710
[laurence]: will look at a lot of

201
00:09:10,736 –> 00:09:11,576
[paul_tyler]: yeah

202
00:09:11,692 –> 00:09:15,939
[laurence]: metrics like such as returns and volatility
but there we want to kind of go

203
00:09:16,119 –> 00:09:20,685
[laurence]: under the hood and we look at
something called v which is v a r

204
00:09:20,986 –> 00:09:24,071
[laurence]: but it’s just simply a metric that
tells you how much you can possibly

205
00:09:23,897 –> 00:09:24,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: what does

206
00:09:24,151 –> 00:09:24,331
[laurence]: lose

207
00:09:24,178 –> 00:09:24,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: that spell

208
00:09:24,431 –> 00:09:24,652
[laurence]: so we

209
00:09:24,700 –> 00:09:24,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: out

210
00:09:24,732 –> 00:09:24,852
[laurence]: want

211
00:09:24,881 –> 00:09:24,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: to

212
00:09:24,892 –> 00:09:25,132
[laurence]: to look

213
00:09:25,182 –> 00:09:25,464
[ramsey_d_smith]: lawrence

214
00:09:25,212 –> 00:09:25,413
[laurence]: at that

215
00:09:25,765 –> 00:09:26,669
[ramsey_d_smith]: for those on our audience

216
00:09:26,374 –> 00:09:26,518
[laurence]: yeah

217
00:09:26,709 –> 00:09:26,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: who don’t

218
00:09:26,844 –> 00:09:26,864
[bruno_caron]: i

219
00:09:26,970 –> 00:09:27,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: know

220
00:09:27,025 –> 00:09:27,045
[bruno_caron]: i

221
00:09:27,090 –> 00:09:27,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: what that spells out

222
00:09:27,810 –> 00:09:28,013
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

223
00:09:27,814 –> 00:09:27,934
[laurence]: we’re

224
00:09:27,914 –> 00:09:27,994
[ramsey_d_smith]: to

225
00:09:27,974 –> 00:09:28,435
[laurence]: going to keep it

226
00:09:28,399 –> 00:09:28,700
[bruno_caron]: oh

227
00:09:28,495 –> 00:09:28,775
[laurence]: simple

228
00:09:28,907 –> 00:09:29,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

229
00:09:29,116 –> 00:09:30,719
[laurence]: we just look under the hood and
we kind

230
00:09:30,627 –> 00:09:30,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

231
00:09:30,759 –> 00:09:32,542
[laurence]: of figure out the max that you
could lose

232
00:09:32,698 –> 00:09:32,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

233
00:09:33,183 –> 00:09:37,531
[laurence]: we also look at you know the
number of months that the index has positive

234
00:09:37,591 –> 00:09:42,640
[laurence]: on negative returns look at another technical
measure that says have you got a propensity

235
00:09:42,720 –> 00:09:43,942
[laurence]: for positive returns

236
00:09:44,077 –> 00:09:44,097
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

237
00:09:44,974 –> 00:09:48,620
[laurence]: we also look at large big outliers
as well to see if you’ve got any

238
00:09:48,800 –> 00:09:53,969
[laurence]: positive or large negative outlines again that
tells us a lot and then the final

239
00:09:54,069 –> 00:09:58,338
[laurence]: categories we actually look forward and we
actually bring in some of our forecast to

240
00:09:58,419 –> 00:10:00,906
[laurence]: try and also have a forward looking
measure

241
00:10:00,956 –> 00:10:01,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

242
00:10:01,247 –> 00:10:04,699
[laurence]: so we score each nex out of
a hundred then we market on a bell

243
00:10:04,759 –> 00:10:11,059
[laurence]: shaped curve when we allocate platinum gold
silver bronze and then we also have watch

244
00:10:11,160 –> 00:10:12,583
[laurence]: and neutral as our worst categories

245
00:10:13,516 –> 00:10:17,723
[paul_tyler]: so lawrence if if i’m an advisor
selling one

246
00:10:17,677 –> 00:10:17,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

247
00:10:17,743 –> 00:10:22,451
[paul_tyler]: of our one of our own companies
products to tsa and i’ve got the materials

248
00:10:22,511 –> 00:10:30,869
[paul_tyler]: in front of my the table because
the virtual table i have a lot of

249
00:10:30,929 –> 00:10:36,458
[paul_tyler]: personal risk at stake here right i
could recommend

250
00:10:35,986 –> 00:10:36,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

251
00:10:36,798 –> 00:10:40,505
[paul_tyler]: induces that creator the next two years

252
00:10:40,354 –> 00:10:41,014
[laurence]: yeah

253
00:10:41,326 –> 00:10:47,296
[paul_tyler]: um i could uh come over the
recommendations that are all kind of bunched up

254
00:10:47,356 –> 00:10:50,702
[paul_tyler]: in one in a couple i may
think i’ve diversified the actual

255
00:10:50,497 –> 00:10:50,780
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

256
00:10:50,802 –> 00:10:57,895
[paul_tyler]: industries when in fact i’ve put all
her retirement into sort of one sector m

257
00:10:58,946 –> 00:11:04,736
[paul_tyler]: sometimes advisers simply default of saying look
tis just pick three or four of these

258
00:11:04,836 –> 00:11:09,624
[paul_tyler]: and let’s divide by that number and
put them in these industries oh and by

259
00:11:09,684 –> 00:11:13,571
[paul_tyler]: the way we now have best interest
standards now coming down the pike what

260
00:11:13,565 –> 00:11:13,686
[laurence]: yeah

261
00:11:13,591 –> 00:11:17,076
[paul_tyler]: does that process look like do i
spend more time with her lawrence do i

262
00:11:17,116 –> 00:11:22,205
[paul_tyler]: have better tools do i go in
with sort of pre set recommendations what does

263
00:11:22,245 –> 00:11:24,060
[paul_tyler]: that this looks like two or three
years from now

264
00:11:25,534 –> 00:11:30,139
[laurence]: you know that’s great let me answer
that in two parts and i would love

265
00:11:30,199 –> 00:11:31,760
[laurence]: to bring in brandon slave to answer

266
00:11:31,627 –> 00:11:31,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

267
00:11:32,641 –> 00:11:38,109
[laurence]: the second part here so you know
let me give you a couple of thoughts

268
00:11:38,350 –> 00:11:42,487
[laurence]: you know firstly i think the future
is going to be different from the past

269
00:11:42,727 –> 00:11:47,555
[laurence]: so always looking at these past historical
returns is probably not going to be optimal

270
00:11:48,216 –> 00:11:53,067
[laurence]: you know and let me give you
some some simple examples right firstly the last

271
00:11:53,168 –> 00:11:55,660
[laurence]: decade we had low inflation

272
00:11:55,627 –> 00:11:57,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye okay

273
00:11:57,074 –> 00:11:59,196
[laurence]: low interest rates no

274
00:11:59,331 –> 00:11:59,553
[ramsey_d_smith]: last

275
00:11:59,416 –> 00:12:00,017
[laurence]: tech

276
00:11:59,654 –> 00:11:59,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: week

277
00:12:00,377 –> 00:12:06,484
[laurence]: tail wins and globalization and it was
a great environment for large cap tech going

278
00:12:06,564 –> 00:12:11,933
[laurence]: forward i think everyone recognizes right we
see higher inflation we see higher rates we

279
00:12:12,074 –> 00:12:16,341
[laurence]: see dglobalization you know and the tech
is being regulated

280
00:12:15,900 –> 00:12:16,163
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

281
00:12:17,423 –> 00:12:23,192
[laurence]: beg pardon a recent big merger just
got blocked between microsopt and activision visit so

282
00:12:23,713 –> 00:12:26,938
[laurence]: that you know the world is going
to be different going forward so you know

283
00:12:26,958 –> 00:12:30,224
[laurence]: i think there are a lot of
people who are just alicating you know hundred

284
00:12:30,284 –> 00:12:34,933
[laurence]: percent to a bench mark index so
we want to encourage people to look forward

285
00:12:35,834 –> 00:12:38,887
[laurence]: so the way we do that at
the end ex standard we actually take the

286
00:12:38,947 –> 00:12:44,929
[laurence]: wisdom of wall street we actually go
and collect about thirty five asset managers and

287
00:12:45,029 –> 00:12:50,406
[laurence]: banks their ten year forward looking returns
and then what we do is we actually

288
00:12:50,446 –> 00:12:53,050
[laurence]: apply these these actual

289
00:12:52,800 –> 00:12:52,820
[branislav_nikolic]: m

290
00:12:53,230 –> 00:12:56,937
[laurence]: expected returns to each index and then
we’re able to produce

291
00:12:57,099 –> 00:12:57,120
[branislav_nikolic]: m

292
00:12:57,117 –> 00:12:59,942
[laurence]: a forward looking forecast for each index

293
00:13:00,330 –> 00:13:00,591
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

294
00:13:00,763 –> 00:13:03,529
[laurence]: so hand of the brands who is
going to talk about one of our latest

295
00:13:03,589 –> 00:13:07,858
[laurence]: innovations on what we’ve been doing around
kind of making that more useful for an

296
00:13:07,978 –> 00:13:09,942
[laurence]: f i a over over to you
brandslep

297
00:13:10,470 –> 00:13:14,477
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you laurence so so again the
key for me and one thing that i’m

298
00:13:14,537 –> 00:13:18,904
[branislav_nikolic]: extremely passionate about is how does this
to your point all get sold or how

299
00:13:18,944 –> 00:13:24,457
[branislav_nikolic]: is this presented over virtual or actual
kitchen table right because again who are the

300
00:13:24,497 –> 00:13:30,322
[branislav_nikolic]: buyers of annuities or pre retires or
early retires and you have two motives when

301
00:13:30,462 –> 00:13:35,871
[branislav_nikolic]: one is guaranteed income for life one
is the accumulation with a protected protected downside

302
00:13:36,252 –> 00:13:41,521
[branislav_nikolic]: either or you are looking for your
index more often than not to provide basis

303
00:13:41,601 –> 00:13:46,048
[branislav_nikolic]: of growth if you’re looking on the
accumulation side obvious if you’re looking on the

304
00:13:46,108 –> 00:13:50,976
[branislav_nikolic]: income side you have more and more
products coming in with the ability to harvest

305
00:13:51,137 –> 00:13:56,184
[branislav_nikolic]: some of that index growth and trans
laded into um cost of living adjustment on

306
00:13:56,244 –> 00:13:59,728
[branislav_nikolic]: your income going forward one way or
the other you have to understand the annuity

307
00:14:00,068 –> 00:14:03,845
[branislav_nikolic]: which i will which i like to
think of as like as an engine or

308
00:14:03,885 –> 00:14:06,993
[branislav_nikolic]: a car and you have to think
of an index which i like to think

309
00:14:07,053 –> 00:14:11,902
[branislav_nikolic]: of as a fuel you can have
like perfect grade fuel you put in a

310
00:14:11,922 –> 00:14:16,908
[branislav_nikolic]: bad engine doesn’t go you have a
perfect car put put a basic gasoline in

311
00:14:16,989 –> 00:14:21,526
[branislav_nikolic]: it sant go either like it starts
to cling you need the best combination and

312
00:14:21,566 –> 00:14:27,315
[branislav_nikolic]: this is where i believe that looking
into forecasts first of all coming from a

313
00:14:28,217 –> 00:14:33,526
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence was mentioning with of all street
transformed into how these indessinduscis will do going

314
00:14:33,586 –> 00:14:38,434
[branislav_nikolic]: forward putting down through the annuities to
achieve something that we call it in stand

315
00:14:38,834 –> 00:14:43,883
[branislav_nikolic]: the net forecast yield basically trying to
what would the annuity with a given crediting

316
00:14:43,963 –> 00:14:49,011
[branislav_nikolic]: strategy on a given index provide over
over the next ten years and then on

317
00:14:49,092 –> 00:14:54,080
[branislav_nikolic]: top of that now look into all
of these options and see which two three

318
00:14:54,260 –> 00:15:00,150
[branislav_nikolic]: five options will give you the highest
expected return going forward so again thinking about

319
00:15:00,410 –> 00:15:05,178
[branislav_nikolic]: the design of the engine whether it’s
a strategy whether it’s a parameters are you

320
00:15:05,238 –> 00:15:09,283
[branislav_nikolic]: paying a fee it or not what
type of index are you putting to it

321
00:15:09,363 –> 00:15:12,926
[branislav_nikolic]: if it’s a bench mark you’re usually
getting a fraction of a return if it’s

322
00:15:12,966 –> 00:15:18,276
[branislav_nikolic]: a volatility control you get a multiple
now let’s say that you get ten per

323
00:15:18,356 –> 00:15:22,591
[branislav_nikolic]: cent return on a bench marine dex
and you get half of it okay ten

324
00:15:22,651 –> 00:15:26,056
[branislav_nikolic]: percent are we going to get ten
per cent next year the year after i

325
00:15:26,097 –> 00:15:30,324
[branislav_nikolic]: don’t know but if you get well
till controlled index and you get two three

326
00:15:30,464 –> 00:15:36,613
[branislav_nikolic]: times of it even if it returns
two three percent you’re already doing doing much

327
00:15:36,653 –> 00:15:40,778
[branislav_nikolic]: better all of this has to be
taken taken into context the other one is

328
00:15:40,838 –> 00:15:48,860
[branislav_nikolic]: that probably the truth lies somewhere in
between looking into the history and seeing high

329
00:15:48,940 –> 00:15:54,562
[branislav_nikolic]: returns are you going to see these
going forward no you’re going to see exactly

330
00:15:54,602 –> 00:15:59,430
[branislav_nikolic]: what’s happening in the forecast probably not
but i think these two are perfect basis

331
00:15:59,470 –> 00:16:03,396
[branislav_nikolic]: for conversation one for legal legal reasons
you got to do it because that’s how

332
00:16:03,437 –> 00:16:08,821
[branislav_nikolic]: you sell the annuity and the other
one is to basically show that up done

333
00:16:08,881 –> 00:16:13,149
[branislav_nikolic]: some thinking outside of the box in
terms of due diligence and what could happen

334
00:16:13,269 –> 00:16:17,536
[branislav_nikolic]: and again use this as a cheat
cheat to show how well you understand the

335
00:16:17,596 –> 00:16:20,672
[branislav_nikolic]: whole car plus the fee on a
race track

336
00:16:24,297 –> 00:16:25,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: so a quick question here

337
00:16:25,596 –> 00:16:26,766
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

338
00:16:26,141 –> 00:16:29,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: so this this makes a lot of
sense right for a variety of

339
00:16:29,580 –> 00:16:30,720
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

340
00:16:29,646 –> 00:16:36,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: reasons and the question is has anybody
done this before has there been has there

341
00:16:36,778 –> 00:16:41,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: been primarily a focus on history and
in particular back testing

342
00:16:42,934 –> 00:16:45,197
[laurence]: yeah i think there’s been such

343
00:16:45,180 –> 00:16:46,440
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

344
00:16:45,278 –> 00:16:50,346
[laurence]: a focus in on the industry and
back testing and listen it has a place

345
00:16:50,506 –> 00:16:50,647
[laurence]: but

346
00:16:50,529 –> 00:16:50,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

347
00:16:51,147 –> 00:16:52,369
[laurence]: what we like to say is

348
00:16:52,448 –> 00:16:52,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

349
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:57,324
[laurence]: take the back test and take the
all cast and sort of think about the

350
00:16:57,538 –> 00:16:57,619
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

351
00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:01,912
[laurence]: using it together let me give you
like a common sense example that we we’ve

352
00:17:01,952 –> 00:17:07,662
[laurence]: been thinking about so right now some
of the large cap tech industries have the

353
00:17:07,722 –> 00:17:13,595
[laurence]: last ten years historical returns of sixteen
per cent so let’s kind of apply common

354
00:17:13,675 –> 00:17:15,116
[laurence]: logic and let’s take apple

355
00:17:14,910 –> 00:17:15,578
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

356
00:17:15,576 –> 00:17:20,601
[laurence]: apples the largest constituent of a lot
of pig teck industries so apple the market

357
00:17:20,661 –> 00:17:25,256
[laurence]: cap right now is about two point
four trillion so if i take that two

358
00:17:25,316 –> 00:17:29,624
[laurence]: point four trillion and i’m going to
compound it at sixteen percent like many

359
00:17:29,647 –> 00:17:29,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

360
00:17:30,025 –> 00:17:34,858
[laurence]: is shown in the the software illustrations
actually that means in ten years time apple

361
00:17:34,898 –> 00:17:40,558
[laurence]: is going to have to have a
market cap of ten trillion dollars now maybe

362
00:17:40,598 –> 00:17:40,919
[laurence]: that’s going

363
00:17:40,957 –> 00:17:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

364
00:17:40,959 –> 00:17:41,940
[laurence]: to happen but

365
00:17:41,850 –> 00:17:42,630
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

366
00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:42,762
[laurence]: like let me give you some

367
00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:42,942
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

368
00:17:42,802 –> 00:17:49,112
[laurence]: context the german g p is three
point eight trillion so it might happen right

369
00:17:49,413 –> 00:17:50,214
[laurence]: but that’s we

370
00:17:50,280 –> 00:17:50,300
[branislav_nikolic]: m

371
00:17:50,414 –> 00:17:54,842
[laurence]: want to encourage people to be diverse
because you know i was just saying i

372
00:17:54,882 –> 00:17:58,187
[laurence]: think it’s going to be a decade
of discomfort right we’ve seen the end of

373
00:17:58,248 –> 00:18:02,238
[laurence]: globalization is going to be difficult so
i think you want to be diverse right

374
00:18:03,114 –> 00:18:07,821
[laurence]: look at emerging markets there their historic
or returns for the last ten years kind

375
00:18:07,861 –> 00:18:11,326
[laurence]: of like about zero maybe they’re going
to do better right you want to put

376
00:18:11,367 –> 00:18:11,387
[laurence]: a

377
00:18:11,409 –> 00:18:11,430
[branislav_nikolic]: m

378
00:18:11,427 –> 00:18:15,433
[laurence]: little bit of money in there right
now everyone’s so bearish about europe but maybe

379
00:18:15,473 –> 00:18:19,200
[laurence]: you want to sprinkle a little bit
in there too so we just think being

380
00:18:19,260 –> 00:18:26,051
[laurence]: diversified is really important and with our
innovation of helping people to choose across complicated

381
00:18:26,452 –> 00:18:31,360
[laurence]: crediting strategies that brands have just outlined
we take that complicated choice between they say

382
00:18:31,761 –> 00:18:35,669
[laurence]: choosing fifty percent of a bench mark
index or two hundred per cent in a

383
00:18:35,730 –> 00:18:40,530
[laurence]: risk control index just make that into
an apples to apples conversation where we can

384
00:18:40,581 –> 00:18:40,682
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

385
00:18:40,630 –> 00:18:43,718
[laurence]: say maybe you’re gonna get five here
and maybe you goin to get eight here

386
00:18:44,199 –> 00:18:45,782
[laurence]: to build a diversified portfolio

387
00:18:46,560 –> 00:18:50,887
[branislav_nikolic]: one thing lawrence that i would like
to add again lawrence being an expert to

388
00:18:50,927 –> 00:18:54,433
[branislav_nikolic]: what i call fuel and industries again
like its great great insight but again looking

389
00:18:54,493 –> 00:18:59,241
[branislav_nikolic]: into just these strategies that you get
in these annuities strategies they are built to

390
00:18:59,681 –> 00:19:04,469
[branislav_nikolic]: harvest the sharp growth you have strategies
that give you cap return so basically you’re

391
00:19:04,489 –> 00:19:08,316
[branislav_nikolic]: looking for a pause that have some
they’re looking for just positive return and then

392
00:19:08,356 –> 00:19:13,765
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re good you have those they are
looking for consistently positive return without any volatility

393
00:19:13,865 –> 00:19:14,085
[branislav_nikolic]: in them

394
00:19:14,947 –> 00:19:15,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

395
00:19:15,328 –> 00:19:19,094
[branislav_nikolic]: how to know again you can have
your view of the market have your outlook

396
00:19:19,695 –> 00:19:23,782
[branislav_nikolic]: but how exactly you know where to
put on so if your money you don’t

397
00:19:23,822 –> 00:19:27,087
[branislav_nikolic]: have to you don’t have to know
that’s why it’s good to diversify that’s why

398
00:19:27,167 –> 00:19:33,518
[branislav_nikolic]: it’s good to diversify strategies crsindusties and
basically get all of these tools available to

399
00:19:33,578 –> 00:19:37,056
[branislav_nikolic]: you working for the for the end
user which is the most important piece

400
00:19:38,589 –> 00:19:38,710
[paul_tyler]: this

401
00:19:38,745 –> 00:19:38,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

402
00:19:38,771 –> 00:19:38,831
[paul_tyler]: is

403
00:19:38,886 –> 00:19:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

404
00:19:38,891 –> 00:19:38,912
[paul_tyler]: a

405
00:19:38,946 –> 00:19:39,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: key

406
00:19:38,972 –> 00:19:39,455
[paul_tyler]: complicated

407
00:19:39,168 –> 00:19:39,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: element of this

408
00:19:39,959 –> 00:19:40,362
[paul_tyler]: problem

409
00:19:42,447 –> 00:19:46,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s gonna say a key element of
this is that um figuring

410
00:19:46,050 –> 00:19:46,736
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

411
00:19:46,433 –> 00:19:50,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: out how diversified you are not a
simple problem right so it’s not just

412
00:19:50,580 –> 00:19:50,863
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

413
00:19:51,241 –> 00:19:52,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: um you know joe the advisor

414
00:19:52,740 –> 00:19:53,610
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

415
00:19:53,144 –> 00:19:57,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: saying i’d like i’d like so i’d
like some europe i’d like like some us

416
00:19:57,331 –> 00:20:02,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: exposure et cetera because there are there
are correlations across those various assets as well

417
00:20:02,440 –> 00:20:04,343
[ramsey_d_smith]: so it’s i think

418
00:20:04,294 –> 00:20:04,520
[laurence]: oh

419
00:20:04,383 –> 00:20:09,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: that folks in the audience that would
they’re using a platform like this it’s important

420
00:20:09,131 –> 00:20:14,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: to understand that that it’s you can’t
really do it properly unless you have a

421
00:20:14,240 –> 00:20:21,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: pretty sophisticated engine under the hood to
be able to capture not just the obvious

422
00:20:21,087 –> 00:20:25,654
[ramsey_d_smith]: sources of diversification but also the less
obvious places where you may be is not

423
00:20:25,694 –> 00:20:26,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: as diversified as you think

424
00:20:27,959 –> 00:20:28,100
[paul_tyler]: yeah

425
00:20:28,795 –> 00:20:29,596
[laurence]: that’s a great point

426
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:29,542
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

427
00:20:29,817 –> 00:20:33,743
[laurence]: and you know we do work with
chanics to get some of the data and

428
00:20:33,843 –> 00:20:39,493
[laurence]: brands joined us from them and actually
on our staff we’ve got mostly quits you

429
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:43,079
[laurence]: know we have j watson who’s one
of our other partners he’s got a quant

430
00:20:43,199 –> 00:20:47,847
[laurence]: background we’ve got trent mckenna who also
has masters in finance j has a ph

431
00:20:47,887 –> 00:20:47,907
[laurence]: d

432
00:20:48,067 –> 00:20:48,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

433
00:20:48,107 –> 00:20:51,232
[laurence]: and brand slave has masters and working
on his ph d so

434
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:51,643
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

435
00:20:51,994 –> 00:20:53,236
[laurence]: i’ve only got an m b a
so i’m

436
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:53,402
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

437
00:20:53,296 –> 00:20:53,416
[laurence]: like

438
00:20:53,317 –> 00:20:53,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

439
00:20:53,496 –> 00:20:54,999
[laurence]: i feel you know these guys are

440
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:56,790
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

441
00:20:55,860 –> 00:21:00,187
[laurence]: the smart guys that we have here
and yeahit’it’s very complicated and we spend a

442
00:21:00,368 –> 00:21:00,528
[laurence]: lot

443
00:21:00,476 –> 00:21:01,166
[paul_tyler]: oh

444
00:21:00,568 –> 00:21:04,074
[laurence]: of time modeling that out but the
key thing is we want to make it’s

445
00:21:04,234 –> 00:21:06,095
[laurence]: simple for people and present an

446
00:21:06,057 –> 00:21:06,077
[branislav_nikolic]: m

447
00:21:06,276 –> 00:21:09,659
[laurence]: apples to apples comparison we want to
help people and boil it down just what

448
00:21:09,699 –> 00:21:13,542
[laurence]: do you need to know here’s the
apples to apples comparison and here is a

449
00:21:13,582 –> 00:21:14,303
[laurence]: way to allocate

450
00:21:14,786 –> 00:21:15,071
[paul_tyler]: yeah

451
00:21:15,150 –> 00:21:15,170
[branislav_nikolic]: a

452
00:21:15,164 –> 00:21:16,491
[laurence]: this industry is too complicated

453
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:17,252
[paul_tyler]: look

454
00:21:17,432 –> 00:21:21,599
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence one thing that you touched on
and i think it’s important in ramsey asked

455
00:21:21,639 –> 00:21:24,944
[branislav_nikolic]: this like has anyone done any of
this before and i think that we are

456
00:21:25,004 –> 00:21:29,712
[branislav_nikolic]: trying basically to raise the tide i
think that this industry requires all the parties

457
00:21:29,772 –> 00:21:34,921
[branislav_nikolic]: to collaborate and i think this is
where we get again great data and some

458
00:21:35,021 –> 00:21:37,645
[branislav_nikolic]: simple calculations for mechanics we have our
our index

459
00:21:38,617 –> 00:21:38,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

460
00:21:38,747 –> 00:21:40,910
[branislav_nikolic]: index forecast we have our

461
00:21:40,826 –> 00:21:40,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

462
00:21:41,010 –> 00:21:42,031
[branislav_nikolic]: model locations

463
00:21:42,343 –> 00:21:42,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

464
00:21:42,431 –> 00:21:45,054
[branislav_nikolic]: we are willing to work with others
because at the end of the day i

465
00:21:45,114 –> 00:21:49,678
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is a tide and i
think that shift has to happen it’s important

466
00:21:49,738 –> 00:21:55,141
[branislav_nikolic]: for it to happen again for again
for the end user it’s the most important

467
00:21:55,181 –> 00:22:01,606
[branislav_nikolic]: that this ship happens and legal point
of view will catch up the illustrations their

468
00:22:01,686 –> 00:22:06,514
[branislav_nikolic]: legal requirements the important part of it
but they don’t tell a full story and

469
00:22:06,594 –> 00:22:11,322
[branislav_nikolic]: we are trying to augment that story
that makes it more palatable and easier to

470
00:22:11,362 –> 00:22:16,751
[branislav_nikolic]: have as a conversation today but two
years from now if things don’t turn out

471
00:22:17,413 –> 00:22:20,397
[branislav_nikolic]: like what was shown in illustration that’s
the most important bit

472
00:22:20,887 –> 00:22:21,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

473
00:22:21,256 –> 00:22:25,924
[paul_tyler]: yea let me talk a little bit
more about what diversity actually means

474
00:22:25,777 –> 00:22:26,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

475
00:22:26,805 –> 00:22:27,266
[paul_tyler]: i like the

476
00:22:27,186 –> 00:22:27,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

477
00:22:27,306 –> 00:22:32,795
[paul_tyler]: fact lawrence you say we encourage people
to look at back tested returns against four

478
00:22:32,956 –> 00:22:36,401
[paul_tyler]: acid returns there’s also a time factor
right because

479
00:22:37,276 –> 00:22:37,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

480
00:22:37,804 –> 00:22:43,874
[paul_tyler]: if you think about possible outcomes you
may have one fund that appears to have

481
00:22:44,490 –> 00:22:44,993
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

482
00:22:44,495 –> 00:22:50,605
[paul_tyler]: highest likelihood or industry of great returns
but there are also some outliers right through

483
00:22:50,665 –> 00:22:51,607
[paul_tyler]: some cases where

484
00:22:51,541 –> 00:22:51,994
[laurence]: hm

485
00:22:52,829 –> 00:22:57,977
[paul_tyler]: wow tsa could get zero she might
get twenty and return she might get a

486
00:22:58,078 –> 00:22:59,700
[paul_tyler]: zero now if she’s

487
00:22:59,677 –> 00:22:59,800
[laurence]: yeah

488
00:22:59,760 –> 00:23:02,785
[paul_tyler]: about to retire two years from now
and start to pull money

489
00:23:02,786 –> 00:23:02,806
[laurence]: a

490
00:23:02,946 –> 00:23:06,331
[paul_tyler]: out how do i factor in the
possibility

491
00:23:05,949 –> 00:23:05,990
[laurence]: a

492
00:23:06,492 –> 00:23:08,575
[paul_tyler]: that there might be a zero here

493
00:23:09,444 –> 00:23:13,871
[laurence]: yeah right there’s so so much in
what you’ve asked me that

494
00:23:13,980 –> 00:23:15,030
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

495
00:23:14,292 –> 00:23:15,333
[laurence]: d love to talk about so

496
00:23:15,300 –> 00:23:15,563
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

497
00:23:16,155 –> 00:23:22,004
[laurence]: you know great thought so the first
thing is i think everyone really expect bench

498
00:23:22,084 –> 00:23:27,089
[laurence]: mark industries to give positive returns right
the last ten years accepted this year we’ve

499
00:23:27,129 –> 00:23:30,692
[laurence]: just seen positive return so people have
been treated and we all have this recency

500
00:23:30,812 –> 00:23:35,409
[laurence]: bias now this year we’re probably going
to see a negative on many of the

501
00:23:35,449 –> 00:23:40,136
[laurence]: major bench marks and next year if
you look at some of the one year

502
00:23:40,237 –> 00:23:43,462
[laurence]: forecasts that some of the investment banks
put out a couple of investment banks are

503
00:23:43,522 –> 00:23:44,644
[laurence]: calling for negative

504
00:23:44,400 –> 00:23:44,420
[branislav_nikolic]: m

505
00:23:44,684 –> 00:23:48,550
[laurence]: returns so i think people are going
to be shocked so what you really want

506
00:23:48,611 –> 00:23:53,058
[laurence]: to do is find industries that ying
and yang when you know one is up

507
00:23:53,358 –> 00:23:56,408
[laurence]: the other one’s down and vice versa
right so that’s what you got to find

508
00:23:56,568 –> 00:23:57,892
[laurence]: industries that yang and yang

509
00:23:58,249 –> 00:23:58,469
[bruno_caron]: oh

510
00:23:59,054 –> 00:24:03,178
[laurence]: then you want to blend them in
now why is this important i got to

511
00:24:03,258 –> 00:24:06,801
[laurence]: tell you i think the most important
thing in finance that we all tend to

512
00:24:06,862 –> 00:24:13,190
[laurence]: forget is compounding compounding is the magic
in finance right just by eking out a

513
00:24:13,230 –> 00:24:18,239
[laurence]: little positive return each year the next
year you’re compounding on a higher number so

514
00:24:18,740 –> 00:24:23,267
[laurence]: if you can get your client even
two or three and versus zero that

515
00:24:23,284 –> 00:24:23,367
[bruno_caron]: ah

516
00:24:23,367 –> 00:24:25,110
[laurence]: next year you’re going to start at
one o three

517
00:24:25,020 –> 00:24:25,890
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

518
00:24:25,711 –> 00:24:27,093
[laurence]: kind of compound that return so

519
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:27,765
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

520
00:24:27,594 –> 00:24:30,960
[laurence]: compounding is the magic that’s what you
want to do is just get your clients

521
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:34,110
[laurence]: a little positive return and you can
build wealth like that

522
00:24:34,980 –> 00:24:37,484
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence i would like to kind of
add to that a bit and i think

523
00:24:37,504 –> 00:24:40,068
[branislav_nikolic]: this is an important one so when
you look into bench mark industries in the

524
00:24:40,128 –> 00:24:44,355
[branislav_nikolic]: last thirty years let’s say you would
see that we had like periods there will

525
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:47,701
[branislav_nikolic]: last like seven or ten years and
then we have a correction so there was

526
00:24:47,761 –> 00:24:51,908
[branislav_nikolic]: no period of twenty years that you
had like positive high positive return there was

527
00:24:52,028 –> 00:24:56,315
[branislav_nikolic]: always something happening in the middle that
would kind of take us back and then

528
00:24:56,335 –> 00:24:57,657
[branislav_nikolic]: you have like the star

529
00:24:57,709 –> 00:24:57,830
[bruno_caron]: ye

530
00:24:57,738 –> 00:24:59,882
[branislav_nikolic]: grow look at a history of those
industries

531
00:24:59,749 –> 00:25:00,014
[bruno_caron]: oh

532
00:25:00,222 –> 00:25:04,431
[branislav_nikolic]: you had periods in thirties forties fifties
even sixties

533
00:25:04,240 –> 00:25:04,341
[bruno_caron]: ah

534
00:25:04,512 –> 00:25:07,618
[branislav_nikolic]: that they had like a constant seven
percent return so if we are

535
00:25:08,134 –> 00:25:08,154
[laurence]: m

536
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:10,914
[branislav_nikolic]: we can go back at a time
i think that

537
00:25:11,584 –> 00:25:11,888
[laurence]: oh

538
00:25:11,655 –> 00:25:15,281
[branislav_nikolic]: our conversation today will be obsolete if
you have a index returning seven percent year

539
00:25:15,421 –> 00:25:19,869
[branislav_nikolic]: over here here we are talking about
people thinking of averages but the sequence of

540
00:25:19,929 –> 00:25:23,712
[branislav_nikolic]: returns there’s a lot and then that’s
what i think will lawrence is saying i

541
00:25:23,752 –> 00:25:29,057
[branislav_nikolic]: would try to relate to the annuity
folks a little bit different is basically saying

542
00:25:29,097 –> 00:25:33,346
[branislav_nikolic]: that if you have a seven or
ten year annuity are you better off getting

543
00:25:34,670 –> 00:25:36,954
[branislav_nikolic]: solid returns three five

544
00:25:36,919 –> 00:25:36,939
[bruno_caron]: m

545
00:25:37,014 –> 00:25:41,441
[branislav_nikolic]: or seven out of out of ten
years or you should get positive return in

546
00:25:41,521 –> 00:25:45,107
[branislav_nikolic]: all ten of them and again depending
how these are using the plan if you’re

547
00:25:45,187 –> 00:25:50,236
[branislav_nikolic]: living of interest or or that a
fixed fixed credit you want it every year

548
00:25:50,416 –> 00:25:53,221
[branislav_nikolic]: and you want to be able to
plan so i guess it really matters how

549
00:25:53,301 –> 00:25:58,249
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re putting this into into into the
annuity as well another thing that became apparent

550
00:25:58,005 –> 00:25:58,026
[bruno_caron]: a

551
00:25:58,349 –> 00:25:59,912
[branislav_nikolic]: as ere doing the research for the
model

552
00:25:59,749 –> 00:26:00,010
[bruno_caron]: oh

553
00:25:59,972 –> 00:26:04,820
[branislav_nikolic]: of location was that there are some
strategies when you look on a forecast a

554
00:26:04,900 –> 00:26:08,266
[branislav_nikolic]: basis they don’t even bee to fix
rate again fixed rate a year ago we

555
00:26:08,286 –> 00:26:12,132
[branislav_nikolic]: wouldn’t be even talking about it but
today it is like three or four five

556
00:26:12,212 –> 00:26:12,693
[branislav_nikolic]: percent

557
00:26:13,031 –> 00:26:13,444
[laurence]: hm

558
00:26:13,294 –> 00:26:14,136
[branislav_nikolic]: and you have a strategy

559
00:26:13,789 –> 00:26:14,072
[bruno_caron]: yah

560
00:26:14,216 –> 00:26:15,197
[branislav_nikolic]: they have a forecast that

561
00:26:15,288 –> 00:26:15,349
[bruno_caron]: ah

562
00:26:15,297 –> 00:26:20,807
[branislav_nikolic]: any yield or return less than that
now that begs the question why at all

563
00:26:20,887 –> 00:26:26,674
[branislav_nikolic]: participate why don’t ye some of the
security of the high fixed rates going forward

564
00:26:27,094 –> 00:26:31,579
[branislav_nikolic]: and combine that with some with some
other industries again what five per cent will

565
00:26:32,360 –> 00:26:35,605
[branislav_nikolic]: keep you up with inflation of seven
i don’t think so but i don’t think

566
00:26:35,665 –> 00:26:39,431
[branislav_nikolic]: inflation of seven is going to be
year after year so a lot of a

567
00:26:39,491 –> 00:26:43,618
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of things to unpack and it’s
why i think that locating across everything that’s

568
00:26:43,658 –> 00:26:54,384
[branislav_nikolic]: available within annuity looking into this is
the recification strategy versification banking on historically high

569
00:26:54,765 –> 00:26:58,658
[branislav_nikolic]: rates i think there’s a lot a
lot to consider

570
00:26:59,714 –> 00:27:03,200
[laurence]: and actually barn said there’s also another
complexity you sort of people have the choice

571
00:27:03,260 –> 00:27:06,546
[laurence]: sort i choose a one year point
to point or two year or three year

572
00:27:06,766 –> 00:27:10,933
[laurence]: up to a six year right and
that’s another complexity that we look at and

573
00:27:10,993 –> 00:27:13,821
[laurence]: try figure that out so yeah there’s
a lot going on in these in these

574
00:27:13,881 –> 00:27:14,142
[laurence]: products

575
00:27:16,919 –> 00:27:17,400
[bruno_caron]: a lot’s going

576
00:27:17,377 –> 00:27:17,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

577
00:27:17,480 –> 00:27:21,587
[bruno_caron]: on to say the least and i
think there’s a lot of material in what

578
00:27:22,489 –> 00:27:24,292
[bruno_caron]: to unpack and what you just said

579
00:27:25,050 –> 00:27:25,920
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

580
00:27:25,113 –> 00:27:34,108
[bruno_caron]: in terms of decumulation the sequence of
return uh and all that diversification um if

581
00:27:34,268 –> 00:27:39,657
[bruno_caron]: we put all the pieces together you
you mentioned that

582
00:27:39,547 –> 00:27:39,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

583
00:27:39,797 –> 00:27:48,852
[bruno_caron]: yeah you’re launching this the model application
for for f i as um first of

584
00:27:48,893 –> 00:27:53,200
[bruno_caron]: all can you tell us a little
bit of you know some of the uh

585
00:27:53,661 –> 00:28:00,452
[bruno_caron]: the time line behind that and what
does that mean ultimately for for the consumer

586
00:28:00,592 –> 00:28:04,681
[bruno_caron]: and how are they going to be
able to use that that’s past to

587
00:28:06,314 –> 00:28:10,361
[laurence]: thanks bruno so we’ve we’ve been working
on this for the last year it’s taken

588
00:28:10,441 –> 00:28:16,291
[laurence]: us some time to model out more
than three thousand crediting strategies and then figure

589
00:28:16,371 –> 00:28:17,613
[laurence]: out an application so

590
00:28:17,580 –> 00:28:17,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

591
00:28:17,794 –> 00:28:19,837
[laurence]: you’re going to be launching in january

592
00:28:20,169 –> 00:28:20,349
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

593
00:28:20,578 –> 00:28:24,565
[laurence]: um you know we’re starting to tell
people and in fact we’re grateful to be

594
00:28:24,645 –> 00:28:27,910
[laurence]: here on on the on the podcast
right now and that’s part of our mission

595
00:28:27,990 –> 00:28:32,658
[laurence]: to tell people and so through the
course of december we’ll be letting a lot

596
00:28:32,698 –> 00:28:37,727
[laurence]: of our partners insurance carriers know and
then mid mid to end of jane we’ll

597
00:28:37,767 –> 00:28:41,172
[laurence]: be launching formally going to market and
telling everyone about it

598
00:28:41,311 –> 00:28:41,351
[branislav_nikolic]: m

599
00:28:41,633 –> 00:28:42,454
[laurence]: make and available

600
00:28:42,579 –> 00:28:42,600
[branislav_nikolic]: m

601
00:28:42,955 –> 00:28:47,300
[laurence]: we’ve already got one or two partners
who’ve signed on so we’re excited because it

602
00:28:47,340 –> 00:28:49,503
[laurence]: helps our mission we want to see
people do better

603
00:28:52,717 –> 00:28:53,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was

604
00:28:53,160 –> 00:28:53,381
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

605
00:28:53,638 –> 00:29:03,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: i was recently in a conversation with
listen fairly sizable financial institution in you know

606
00:29:03,271 –> 00:29:09,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the advisory space i’ll say and
they were trying to figure out different ways

607
00:29:09,139 –> 00:29:15,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to incorporate more annuities into their
their platform and one of the challenges was

608
00:29:15,570 –> 00:29:21,240
[ramsey_d_smith]: that increasingly the advisors were being asked
less and less to make investment decisions and

609
00:29:21,260 –> 00:29:25,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were more focused on relationship management
and so the implication of that is that

610
00:29:25,687 –> 00:29:25,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

611
00:29:25,944 –> 00:29:26,089
[laurence]: yeah

612
00:29:26,308 –> 00:29:32,703
[ramsey_d_smith]: that the investment strategies the acid application
strategies actually come from a central source right

613
00:29:33,085 –> 00:29:36,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the centralized sources need to use

614
00:29:36,157 –> 00:29:36,342
[laurence]: yeah

615
00:29:36,568 –> 00:29:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: rely on models that use a lot
of data and so you think about use

616
00:29:41,717 –> 00:29:47,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: cases what you’re building here lawrence and
brandaslav is that you’re bringing you’re bringing robt

617
00:29:47,748 –> 00:29:53,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: data you know where it didn’t exist
before so that it can potentially be used

618
00:29:53,384 –> 00:29:57,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: at a you know at a sort
of an entity level

619
00:29:57,137 –> 00:29:57,281
[laurence]: kay

620
00:29:57,331 –> 00:30:01,117
[ramsey_d_smith]: if you will i like to call
it factory settings right at an entity level

621
00:30:01,698 –> 00:30:07,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: nd level for larger financial institutions so
that at the end of the day know

622
00:30:07,347 –> 00:30:11,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: the advisor the advisor will be able
to rely on something that’s been fully veded

623
00:30:11,655 –> 00:30:15,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: at an institutional level but in order
for all that to work you know you

624
00:30:15,641 –> 00:30:20,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: have to have reliable data and to
your point earlier it didn’t really didn’t exist

625
00:30:20,469 –> 00:30:27,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: across the whole sort of spectrum of
offerings until guys launch this product so grat

626
00:30:30,174 –> 00:30:34,061
[laurence]: yeah thank you know i’ll make a
remark and then see if brandon has anything

627
00:30:34,121 –> 00:30:38,268
[laurence]: to add you know one of the
things we see having worked for a large

628
00:30:38,328 –> 00:30:42,876
[laurence]: financial institution in my in my prior
life one of the key things is everyone

629
00:30:42,956 –> 00:30:44,920
[laurence]: wants some kind of forecast

630
00:30:45,007 –> 00:30:45,108
[paul_tyler]: ah

631
00:30:45,301 –> 00:30:50,912
[laurence]: expected returns expected volatility what’s the correlation
they need those to plug into their model

632
00:30:52,064 –> 00:30:55,369
[laurence]: and in the annuity space there’s been
nothing now with what we do at the

633
00:30:55,429 –> 00:31:00,758
[laurence]: ende standard we’re able to provide expected
returns expected volatility and we know the correlation

634
00:31:00,838 –> 00:31:06,330
[laurence]: so we can help feel those those
dis sons that these institutions are having we

635
00:31:06,390 –> 00:31:12,104
[laurence]: can provide the imputs and i think
my final observation is this that i think

636
00:31:12,144 –> 00:31:17,473
[laurence]: if you were to use some of
the expect to expected returns we see i

637
00:31:17,553 –> 00:31:21,901
[laurence]: think the annuities would get a bigger
allocation than they have been because you know

638
00:31:21,981 –> 00:31:26,369
[laurence]: they have no downside risking case of
fear arilayouknow it’s kept and some

639
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:26,640
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

640
00:31:26,409 –> 00:31:30,416
[laurence]: of the expected returns might be three
four five six very consistent so i think

641
00:31:30,437 –> 00:31:33,082
[laurence]: they get a larger allocation and that
would surprise

642
00:31:32,802 –> 00:31:32,967
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

643
00:31:33,142 –> 00:31:34,744
[laurence]: a lot of people brand left

644
00:31:35,852 –> 00:31:40,440
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah i think there’s there’s like to
two levels of this conversation one is how

645
00:31:40,480 –> 00:31:44,667
[branislav_nikolic]: do you incorporate is in the broader
porfolia and when lawrence mentioned knowing what this

646
00:31:44,727 –> 00:31:50,597
[branislav_nikolic]: could return at what level of i
think would make advisors more comfortable again we

647
00:31:50,677 –> 00:31:55,565
[branislav_nikolic]: have a generation of advisors who grew
up in a in a bull market right

648
00:31:55,705 –> 00:32:02,256
[branislav_nikolic]: and would you ever consider an annuity
a safe investment downside when you never had

649
00:32:02,356 –> 00:32:06,183
[branislav_nikolic]: to now i think we are getting
to that realization that that that that’s goin

650
00:32:06,223 –> 00:32:11,652
[branislav_nikolic]: to start happening and again a lot
of great too is available out there a

651
00:32:11,712 –> 00:32:18,643
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of a lot of parties providing
phenomenal either end to end processes or optimal

652
00:32:18,784 –> 00:32:25,398
[branislav_nikolic]: product locations or simulators of how well
you do where you lock should locate your

653
00:32:25,498 –> 00:32:31,701
[branislav_nikolic]: assets the key is that no one
knew how to project ger quotes the annuity

654
00:32:31,781 –> 00:32:32,943
[branislav_nikolic]: going forward and i

655
00:32:33,013 –> 00:32:33,034
[laurence]: m

656
00:32:33,023 –> 00:32:36,487
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is this is important piece
that we that we bring bring bring to

657
00:32:36,547 –> 00:32:36,627
[branislav_nikolic]: the

658
00:32:36,561 –> 00:32:36,643
[paul_tyler]: ah

659
00:32:36,667 –> 00:32:44,366
[branislav_nikolic]: table again something that it’s showing not
only in the retail market but

660
00:32:44,376 –> 00:32:45,516
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

661
00:32:44,447 –> 00:32:49,495
[branislav_nikolic]: more importantly now spilling over into an
institutional market as well the people are adopting

662
00:32:49,555 –> 00:32:55,685
[branislav_nikolic]: these concepts d c pension plan level
that really kind of add the validity to

663
00:32:55,765 –> 00:33:00,493
[branislav_nikolic]: it and it kind of adds to
the eds conversation that if super conservative folks

664
00:33:00,694 –> 00:33:02,637
[branislav_nikolic]: and legal kind of legally aware

665
00:33:03,146 –> 00:33:03,896
[paul_tyler]: oh

666
00:33:04,361 –> 00:33:09,062
[branislav_nikolic]: are considering adding these into the mix
had to be a good thing so so

667
00:33:09,162 –> 00:33:12,846
[branislav_nikolic]: so at a lot a lot is
happening and we we we love to be

668
00:33:13,006 –> 00:33:15,049
[branislav_nikolic]: to be a part of part of
that conversation for sure

669
00:33:14,946 –> 00:33:15,127
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

670
00:33:15,786 –> 00:33:20,534
[paul_tyler]: no i honestly think you could be
the next morning star right in the

671
00:33:20,670 –> 00:33:21,270
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

672
00:33:21,055 –> 00:33:23,919
[paul_tyler]: space i don’t know if that infringes
on cope

673
00:33:23,820 –> 00:33:24,265
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

674
00:33:24,040 –> 00:33:24,540
[paul_tyler]: rites but

675
00:33:24,484 –> 00:33:24,705
[laurence]: oh

676
00:33:25,101 –> 00:33:25,602
[paul_tyler]: lawrence that’s what

677
00:33:25,590 –> 00:33:25,870
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

678
00:33:25,642 –> 00:33:25,983
[paul_tyler]: i call you

679
00:33:26,631 –> 00:33:26,872
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

680
00:33:26,684 –> 00:33:30,711
[paul_tyler]: so you know ve been doing so
much work with you know agents helping themselves

681
00:33:30,791 –> 00:33:31,232
[paul_tyler]: digitally

682
00:33:30,999 –> 00:33:31,200
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

683
00:33:31,312 –> 00:33:33,495
[paul_tyler]: tell a story talking to consumers

684
00:33:33,345 –> 00:33:33,366
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

685
00:33:34,016 –> 00:33:39,525
[paul_tyler]: you know what goes through your mind
when you think about trying explain something this

686
00:33:39,626 –> 00:33:43,439
[paul_tyler]: complex on a website in a brosirt
in a video

687
00:33:43,609 –> 00:33:48,051
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm yeah i mean when i think
lawrence i heard you talk about you know

688
00:33:48,292 –> 00:33:51,196
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the mer and missus smith or the
generic consumer

689
00:33:51,630 –> 00:33:52,710
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

690
00:33:51,757 –> 00:33:57,648
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: are retiring out there thinking about planning
and de mystifying the idea of an annuity

691
00:33:57,709 –> 00:34:04,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: and the complexities of what we’re talking
about how does your presentation or or the

692
00:34:04,933 –> 00:34:08,679
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: educational tools at you’re offering how does
it break it down for them to kind

693
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,849
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of combat the emotional side of the
decision right um you’ve talked about the changing

694
00:34:15,911 –> 00:34:18,896
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: interest rates and inflation and all the
things that are ahead and a lot of

695
00:34:18,936 –> 00:34:23,183
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the unknowns that are on head ahead
how does the tool kind of speak to

696
00:34:23,223 –> 00:34:23,384
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

697
00:34:23,454 –> 00:34:23,596
[laurence]: yeah

698
00:34:23,564 –> 00:34:26,688
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: emotional side oh i’ll say fear but

699
00:34:27,314 –> 00:34:27,743
[laurence]: damn

700
00:34:27,469 –> 00:34:30,953
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at least sort of that uncertainty that’s
ahead and that agent or advisor bringing him

701
00:34:31,013 –> 00:34:32,875
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: through those conversations

702
00:34:32,190 –> 00:34:33,090
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

703
00:34:34,354 –> 00:34:39,723
[laurence]: i think in a couple ways so
firstly what we do is for each index

704
00:34:39,943 –> 00:34:44,010
[laurence]: we evaluated so we’ll put a platinum
gold and silver

705
00:34:43,746 –> 00:34:43,908
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

706
00:34:44,070 –> 00:34:44,992
[laurence]: and so on so that

707
00:34:45,028 –> 00:34:45,495
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: got reading

708
00:34:45,392 –> 00:34:48,718
[laurence]: you can add glance see what that
index is doing so it

709
00:34:48,722 –> 00:34:49,236
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

710
00:34:48,758 –> 00:34:52,604
[laurence]: might be a little bit unfamiliar but
you get our sort of stamp of whether

711
00:34:52,644 –> 00:34:57,292
[laurence]: we think it’s a robust and well
designed index now the other thing we do

712
00:34:57,733 –> 00:35:03,445
[laurence]: is we all know finance is complex
and people love to use complicated

713
00:35:03,330 –> 00:35:03,596
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

714
00:35:03,505 –> 00:35:04,368
[laurence]: language so we actually

715
00:35:04,290 –> 00:35:05,460
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

716
00:35:04,448 –> 00:35:06,052
[laurence]: have a copy writer on our staff

717
00:35:06,177 –> 00:35:06,360
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

718
00:35:06,714 –> 00:35:10,484
[laurence]: and we try and use straight forward
and clear language so i give you the

719
00:35:10,544 –> 00:35:16,560
[laurence]: example the way we would describe a
risk control index we just say cushions and

720
00:35:16,620 –> 00:35:17,102
[laurence]: it’s smooth

721
00:35:18,369 –> 00:35:18,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

722
00:35:18,504 –> 00:35:22,472
[laurence]: and then the final thing that we
do is we have our forecasting reports

723
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:23,041
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

724
00:35:23,804 –> 00:35:26,711
[laurence]: and we very clearly show here that
the last ten

725
00:35:26,639 –> 00:35:26,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

726
00:35:26,771 –> 00:35:32,121
[laurence]: years maybe you got let’s say six
per cent and then here is what how

727
00:35:32,201 –> 00:35:35,206
[laurence]: we applied the wisdom of wall street
to that index and maybe you’re gonna get

728
00:35:35,867 –> 00:35:40,415
[laurence]: seven eight or nine or maybe you
got sixteen in history and we think you’re

729
00:35:40,435 –> 00:35:44,181
[laurence]: going to get full but we have
very clear bar chart so we try and

730
00:35:44,261 –> 00:35:52,475
[laurence]: provide people with visual simple language and
easy to understand demonicaswgoald platinum and

731
00:35:52,466 –> 00:35:53,156
[paul_tyler]: yeah

732
00:35:52,535 –> 00:35:52,836
[laurence]: so on

733
00:35:52,827 –> 00:35:53,256
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

734
00:35:53,217 –> 00:35:55,683
[laurence]: to really help people when they’re making
those decisions

735
00:35:55,976 –> 00:35:56,436
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah the gold

736
00:35:56,317 –> 00:35:56,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah

737
00:35:56,476 –> 00:35:58,578
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: silver plate that’s you know those are
the star

738
00:35:58,556 –> 00:35:58,879
[paul_tyler]: oh

739
00:35:58,678 –> 00:35:59,579
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: reviews rights really

740
00:35:59,486 –> 00:35:59,707
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:35:59,679 –> 00:36:00,140
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at a glance

742
00:36:00,990 –> 00:36:01,231
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

743
00:36:01,261 –> 00:36:02,662
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: here’s the top middle and maybe

744
00:36:02,899 –> 00:36:03,039
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

745
00:36:03,142 –> 00:36:03,282
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: not

746
00:36:03,326 –> 00:36:03,694
[paul_tyler]: oh

747
00:36:03,382 –> 00:36:04,383
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so good

748
00:36:04,755 –> 00:36:05,159
[laurence]: exactly

749
00:36:05,216 –> 00:36:05,396
[paul_tyler]: yeah

750
00:36:05,700 –> 00:36:06,143
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

751
00:36:05,765 –> 00:36:06,105
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

752
00:36:06,918 –> 00:36:06,938
[paul_tyler]: i

753
00:36:07,006 –> 00:36:07,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

754
00:36:07,058 –> 00:36:09,320
[paul_tyler]: love it bruno you know we’re close
to the top

755
00:36:09,318 –> 00:36:09,339
[branislav_nikolic]: a

756
00:36:09,360 –> 00:36:09,881
[paul_tyler]: of the hour i mean

757
00:36:09,937 –> 00:36:10,139
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

758
00:36:09,941 –> 00:36:11,622
[paul_tyler]: what are your what

759
00:36:11,557 –> 00:36:11,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

760
00:36:11,662 –> 00:36:11,863
[paul_tyler]: are your

761
00:36:11,860 –> 00:36:11,940
[bruno_caron]: ah

762
00:36:11,883 –> 00:36:13,464
[paul_tyler]: thoughts questions observations

763
00:36:14,324 –> 00:36:14,544
[bruno_caron]: well

764
00:36:14,846 –> 00:36:15,626
[paul_tyler]: oh

765
00:36:15,085 –> 00:36:16,307
[bruno_caron]: number one i think it’s

766
00:36:16,567 –> 00:36:16,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

767
00:36:17,469 –> 00:36:18,391
[bruno_caron]: it’s wonderful

768
00:36:18,307 –> 00:36:18,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

769
00:36:18,511 –> 00:36:23,138
[bruno_caron]: that we’re going back or at least
you guys are going back to some of

770
00:36:23,319 –> 00:36:28,828
[bruno_caron]: basic some of the textbook concepts i
mean we live in a world of headlines

771
00:36:29,189 –> 00:36:29,489
[bruno_caron]: and you

772
00:36:29,460 –> 00:36:29,763
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

773
00:36:29,509 –> 00:36:33,516
[bruno_caron]: know this is going on this is
going to just the fact that you’re framing

774
00:36:33,556 –> 00:36:38,524
[bruno_caron]: it that you’re actually putting it in
to a um some sort of framework some

775
00:36:38,584 –> 00:36:44,494
[bruno_caron]: sort of boundaries and sort of ratings
and in perspective with with the rest of

776
00:36:44,514 –> 00:36:49,242
[bruno_caron]: the economy i think that adds significant
value and i think that’s a that’s a

777
00:36:49,302 –> 00:36:52,386
[bruno_caron]: really that’s a very useful set for
for the industry

778
00:36:52,216 –> 00:36:52,237
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

779
00:36:54,138 –> 00:36:54,499
[paul_tyler]: ramsey

780
00:36:54,205 –> 00:36:54,512
[laurence]: thank you

781
00:36:55,057 –> 00:36:55,341
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

782
00:36:55,112 –> 00:36:55,377
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you

783
00:36:55,423 –> 00:36:56,126
[paul_tyler]: you want you want to bring

784
00:36:56,174 –> 00:36:56,317
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

785
00:36:56,187 –> 00:36:56,448
[paul_tyler]: us some

786
00:36:57,027 –> 00:37:02,195
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah so i wholeheartedly agree this is
this is an area that’s expanded

787
00:37:03,026 –> 00:37:03,312
[paul_tyler]: oh

788
00:37:03,187 –> 00:37:06,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: dramatically and again the choices expanded

789
00:37:06,656 –> 00:37:06,923
[paul_tyler]: oh

790
00:37:06,753 –> 00:37:10,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: much more quickly than the analytical framework
behind it and

791
00:37:10,925 –> 00:37:10,946
[paul_tyler]: m

792
00:37:11,200 –> 00:37:15,447
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know we live in a we
live in an environment where the elytics

793
00:37:15,390 –> 00:37:15,755
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

794
00:37:15,487 –> 00:37:18,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: are important they’re important for legal reasons
they’re important for

795
00:37:18,101 –> 00:37:18,202
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

796
00:37:18,432 –> 00:37:23,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: just helping people make the make the
right decision they’re important for helping people feel

797
00:37:23,921 –> 00:37:30,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: comfortable with their decisions and you know
as as i mentioned before i think it’s

798
00:37:30,592 –> 00:37:36,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: going to be useful certainly at the
consumer level at the advisor level i think

799
00:37:36,742 –> 00:37:42,249
[ramsey_d_smith]: very importantly at the institutional level where
you know the burdens of the burdens of

800
00:37:42,870 –> 00:37:46,513
[ramsey_d_smith]: proof if you will are very high
i think that this is this is this

801
00:37:46,573 –> 00:37:51,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: is going to be very important and
and it’s something that gets asked about a

802
00:37:51,407 –> 00:37:53,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of meetings when you’re if you’re
talking to

803
00:37:53,824 –> 00:37:54,454
[laurence]: oh

804
00:37:53,971 –> 00:37:57,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: larger insurance companies and this is something
that comes up a lot this isn’t this

805
00:37:57,537 –> 00:38:02,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: has been an unanswered question so i
think this is this is this is this

806
00:38:02,325 –> 00:38:03,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a great initiative

807
00:38:05,656 –> 00:38:07,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah lawrence you know you saw

808
00:38:08,107 –> 00:38:08,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

809
00:38:08,180 –> 00:38:08,841
[paul_tyler]: afa on

810
00:38:08,880 –> 00:38:09,750
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

811
00:38:09,602 –> 00:38:10,163
[paul_tyler]: that discussion

812
00:38:10,140 –> 00:38:10,321
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

813
00:38:10,243 –> 00:38:11,926
[paul_tyler]: panel how much

814
00:38:12,157 –> 00:38:12,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

815
00:38:12,780 –> 00:38:13,620
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

816
00:38:13,248 –> 00:38:14,491
[paul_tyler]: independent marketing organizations

817
00:38:14,122 –> 00:38:14,286
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

818
00:38:14,891 –> 00:38:18,577
[paul_tyler]: need this type of tool for their
marketers and for their agent so i think

819
00:38:18,617 –> 00:38:23,382
[paul_tyler]: the time couldn’t be better what’s the
best way for people to find out more

820
00:38:23,462 –> 00:38:26,024
[paul_tyler]: about your product or reach out to
you personally

821
00:38:27,034 –> 00:38:33,965
[laurence]: sure so our website has a lot
of greater information and that’s the index standard

822
00:38:34,025 –> 00:38:38,854
[laurence]: dot com and you can email us
at info at the index standard dot com

823
00:38:39,475 –> 00:38:44,062
[laurence]: i’m also pretty active on linked in
so brandon slab please follow us we also

824
00:38:44,122 –> 00:38:48,229
[laurence]: have linked in at the index standard
follow us and we kind of put some

825
00:38:48,429 –> 00:38:51,786
[laurence]: our insights there and of course our
newsletter as well with with you guys

826
00:38:52,516 –> 00:38:55,721
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well listen thanks so
much for joining us we

827
00:38:55,770 –> 00:38:56,011
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

828
00:38:55,781 –> 00:39:00,509
[paul_tyler]: want to thank all our listeners and
you know please give us feedback comments and

829
00:39:00,649 –> 00:39:02,412
[paul_tyler]: as long as they’re good bruno i

830
00:39:02,400 –> 00:39:02,701
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

831
00:39:02,492 –> 00:39:02,713
[paul_tyler]: actually

832
00:39:02,644 –> 00:39:02,726
[laurence]: ye

833
00:39:02,733 –> 00:39:04,676
[paul_tyler]: had somebody coming on my audio

834
00:39:04,661 –> 00:39:04,681
[branislav_nikolic]: m

835
00:39:04,796 –> 00:39:05,518
[paul_tyler]: editing skills and

836
00:39:06,319 –> 00:39:09,769
[bruno_caron]: uh

837
00:39:06,720 –> 00:39:06,981
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

838
00:39:07,601 –> 00:39:08,462
[paul_tyler]: a lack thereof

839
00:39:08,688 –> 00:39:08,889
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

840
00:39:09,244 –> 00:39:10,826
[paul_tyler]: so we we welcome all

841
00:39:10,710 –> 00:39:10,930
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

842
00:39:11,067 –> 00:39:13,050
[paul_tyler]: and you know listen join us again
next

843
00:39:13,058 –> 00:39:13,078
[bruno_caron]: h

844
00:39:13,150 –> 00:39:16,316
[paul_tyler]: week for another episode of that annuity

845
00:39:16,419 –> 00:39:16,479
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

846
00:39:16,436 –> 00:39:17,242
[paul_tyler]: show thanks

847
00:39:20,767 –> 00:39:21,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

848
00:39:33,487 –> 00:39:37,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh oh