That Annuity Show
# 176 – Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic
Indices continue to proliferate within the fixed indexed annuity market. Yes, choice is good for the client but it can create a complicated environment for the agent or advisor. Laurence Black, Founder of the Index Standard and Branislav Nikolic join us again to talk about how their company makes providing good information easier.
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Episode Transcript
The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.
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[paul_tyler]: hi
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show bruno
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[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: welcome
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[bruno_caron]: thank you great to be here and
excited about
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[paul_tyler]: tessa
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[bruno_caron]: our guests
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[paul_tyler]: glad you got your yahyeahtisa good to
see you
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: to see you good morning
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[paul_tyler]: yeah we’ve been
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[bruno_caron]: m
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[paul_tyler]: busy on a lot of fronts last
few weeks haven’t we
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i
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[paul_tyler]: and ramsey looks
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah
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[paul_tyler]: like you’re i think you’re broadcasting from
an undisclosed location today
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[ramsey_d_smith]: indeed
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[paul_tyler]: correct
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[ramsey_d_smith]: looks kind of like a wine seller
doesn’t it but
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not
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[paul_tyler]: yeah ah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: a very
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: happy
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to be here and really excited to
welcome lawrence black in the end standard uh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: the the index standard has been our
lead sponsor for the better part of the
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[ramsey_d_smith]: last year so we’re really excited to
have them on they’re doing a lot of
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[ramsey_d_smith]: very interesting things in and helping the
the index community unpack the best way to
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[ramsey_d_smith]: allocate industies and the best way to
understand their role in a broader portfolio so
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[ramsey_d_smith]: with that lawrence i want to start
out with you and you also have a
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[ramsey_d_smith]: special guest a new addition to your
team you’re going to want to introduce
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: as well so i will pass it
on to you for that
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[laurence]: indeed so good morning every one it’s
great to join you so as you guys
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[laurence]: know it i’ve been with you a
couple of times in the past great to
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[laurence]: be back here again and i’m delighted
to introduce brand nicolitch who’s just joined us
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[laurence]: from from begpardon let me try a
re
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: do that again hey good morning it’s
great to join you i’m delighted to introduce
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[laurence]: branslanicolich
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: who’s just joined us from chanics he
was ahead of research and he was therefore
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[laurence]: about almost a decade and the index
standard we’ve got a lot of index expertise
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[laurence]: and it’s great to kind of expand
our capabilities
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah
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[laurence]: with brand slabs in depth insurance knowledge
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[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic
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[paul_tyler]: welcome yeah
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[branislav_nikolic]: thank you extremely
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[paul_tyler]: you want
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[branislav_nikolic]: happy to be here
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[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah tell us
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: tell us it’s a little bit about
your back story how did how did you
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[paul_tyler]: get into the annuity space
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[branislav_nikolic]: so my story with annuities was polly
haphazard so old way through school i thought
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[branislav_nikolic]: i would end up on a trading
desk somewhere be a proper quant and i
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[branislav_nikolic]: had enormous luck to meet motinmilevsky extreme
early in my career and started working for
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[branislav_nikolic]: for his start up later joined chanics
which is again an industry leader on data
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[branislav_nikolic]: analytics for annuities spent good almost ten
years there leading research and really helping antics
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[branislav_nikolic]: build their capabilities in all sorts of
annuities in terms of platforms for exchanges that’s
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[branislav_nikolic]: how i lawrence and j and i
really saw the two missions extremely complimentary and
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[branislav_nikolic]: i always saw the index as a
fuel to the annuity and i always was
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[branislav_nikolic]: saying that it’s important these
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[branislav_nikolic]: two things
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[branislav_nikolic]: evaluated together so we started talking and
i’m extremely happy to have joined the team
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[branislav_nikolic]: and to be side by side with
lawrence and j
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: lawrence so actually we saw each other
in person it was it was tremendous i
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[laurence]: indeed
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[paul_tyler]: i made the very last minute decision
to tend naa this year and a f
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[paul_tyler]: a for those of you who were
wont to look at this up had their
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[paul_tyler]: conference in california showed up and lawrence
you were on a great platform talking about
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[paul_tyler]: kind of the landscape of product design
and industiesn maybe for our audience you could
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[paul_tyler]: just sort of give us talk to
us a little bit more about the problem
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[paul_tyler]: you’re solving and you know what’s taking
place in the market today
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[laurence]: sure thanks paul because you know a
lot is happening so let me just sort
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[laurence]: of give everyone little bit of background
about what we
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: do so at the end of standard
we all know there’s so much complexity in
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[laurence]: this market with induces and the pay
offs so what we do at the end
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[laurence]: next standard which were really trying to
simplify decode and mystify all this complexity and
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[laurence]: we do it in a couple of
ways we’ve got a lot of research
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[ramsey_d_smith]: he
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[laurence]: that we help people giving them insights
as to what products and industries to select
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[laurence]: we also actually rate and evaluate every
single index used in the insurance space we
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[laurence]: give it a platinum gold silver bronze
rating and then we actually have some forward
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[laurence]: looking forecast to help people think about
the future because we all know the future
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[laurence]: is going to be different so we
have some forecast and then we’ve actually on
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[laurence]: the of these forecasts we’ve actually launched
some model allications so allicating
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: to an annuity can be really tough
with sort of fifteen crediting lines so we’ve
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[laurence]: actually built a tool to help people
with
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: a tough selection now i just want
to give you some background about the index
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[laurence]: industry so one interesting
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: fact it’s actually almost a trillion dollar
industry no one knows about it so i
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[laurence]: call it like a niche market
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[branislav_nikolic]: ah
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[laurence]: that’s a trillion dollars
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: so you know we see in the
u s insurance space there’s probably is the
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[laurence]: bulk of risk control industries probably about
half that but actually risk control industries are
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[laurence]: used in germany
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: and in switzerland
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: actually used in the insurance
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye
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[laurence]: space they use risk control industries in
mutual funds then another big portion is structure
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[laurence]: products we estimate there’s probably two hundred
and fifty billion in instructure products that actually
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[laurence]: are linked to these risk control industries
and then actually you have this of bank
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[laurence]: market where they’re doing direct transactions with
big institutions that’s probably another two hundred billions
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[laurence]: so in total we think it’s around
about a trillion dollar market
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[ramsey_d_smith]: so that’s incredible i mean one of
the things though that is
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that has been interesting about the market
is it’s gotten it’s been characterized by a
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lot more choice and there’s a lot
of value in an adit a choice but
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[ramsey_d_smith]: with with those choices becomes many many
more complicated decisions
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[laurence]: yeah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know so i guess a
question you know that that i have for
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[ramsey_d_smith]: you like so what sort of what
are your various target audiences i can see
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[ramsey_d_smith]: i can certainly see why retail retail
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[laurence]: m
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[ramsey_d_smith]: consumers would want to be able to
decode all the choices but i would imagine
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that institutions are almost similarly challenged so
what are your target audiences for your product
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lines yeah
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[laurence]: so we’re actually kind of targeting that
that whole gammit we want
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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm
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[laurence]: to help organizations with the selection and
due diligence of these industies want to help
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[laurence]: organizations who selling them that they can
use our reports to kind of position them
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[laurence]: and and in the end consumer i
mean the main reason i’m actually here and
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[laurence]: doing this is i want m and
ms smith who are buying these policies to
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[laurence]: do better right
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: by building choosing
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: better industries and building diverse portfolios and
let me just make one quick comment about
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: the industries because
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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
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[laurence]: you know i think we hear a
lot about the comp lexity but also on
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[laurence]: the sort of flip side is actually
it’s really wonderful because what we’re now
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: seeing is a lot of the users
are actually getting access to techniques that only
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[laurence]: used by hedge funds or big pension
funds i can give any example there’s a
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[laurence]: technique called mean verace optimization just a
fancy way of saying give me the best
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[laurence]: aplication to target a certain level of
risk that was kind of actually harry make
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[laurence]: its came up with that technique in
the late fifties he wanted no ball prize
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[laurence]: for up until a couple of years
ago you only had big pension funds and
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[laurence]: big hedge funds were using that ut
now amazingly that technique is an indusies and
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[laurence]: we can all access that so that’s
actually a really wonderful innovation that all of
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[laurence]: us can use that
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[laurence]: to do better
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[branislav_nikolic]: yeah m
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[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s wonderful and can you talk
you talk a little bit more about those
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[bruno_caron]: those actual metrics and in practice what
type of metrics it you used to rate
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[bruno_caron]: s
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[bruno_caron]: h i mean you list plenty in
terms of calculating and measuring those like like
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[bruno_caron]: capital risk metric efficiency metric return metric
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[bruno_caron]: what are those metrics and what do
they mean
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[bruno_caron]: for people who ultimately use them
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[laurence]: he great question bruno
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: so we actually look at about thirty
five
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: metrics and i’m going
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[branislav_nikolic]: ah
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[laurence]: to loosely break them down into
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: three groups so the first group is
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[bruno_caron]: yeah
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[laurence]: we really want to look at the
complex city of each
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: index how it’s designed and the availability
of the rules and who’s calculating that the
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[laurence]: key thing is is really that complexity
we’ll look at the dirt the diversification we’ll
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[laurence]: look and see if the rules are
available well look and see if there’s an
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[laurence]: independent index calculation
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[laurence]: agent and we like to see those
things and by the way what we prefer
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[laurence]: to see when we’re looking at an
index is simpler is better than an index
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[laurence]: with lots of no second category is
what you touched on
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: will look at a lot of
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[laurence]: metrics like such as returns and volatility
but there we want to kind of go
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[laurence]: under the hood and we look at
something called v which is v a r
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[laurence]: but it’s just simply a metric that
tells you how much you can possibly
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[ramsey_d_smith]: what does
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[laurence]: lose
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[ramsey_d_smith]: that spell
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[laurence]: so we
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[ramsey_d_smith]: out
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[laurence]: want
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to
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[laurence]: to look
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[ramsey_d_smith]: lawrence
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[laurence]: at that
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[ramsey_d_smith]: for those on our audience
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[laurence]: yeah
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[ramsey_d_smith]: who don’t
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[bruno_caron]: i
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[ramsey_d_smith]: know
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[bruno_caron]: i
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[ramsey_d_smith]: what that spells out
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: we’re
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[ramsey_d_smith]: to
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[laurence]: going to keep it
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[laurence]: simple
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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay
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[laurence]: we just look under the hood and
we kind
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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay
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[laurence]: of figure out the max that you
could lose
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[ramsey_d_smith]: right
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[laurence]: we also look at you know the
number of months that the index has positive
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[laurence]: on negative returns look at another technical
measure that says have you got a propensity
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[laurence]: for positive returns
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: we also look at large big outliers
as well to see if you’ve got any
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[laurence]: positive or large negative outlines again that
tells us a lot and then the final
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[laurence]: categories we actually look forward and we
actually bring in some of our forecast to
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[laurence]: try and also have a forward looking
measure
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[laurence]: so we score each nex out of
a hundred then we market on a bell
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[laurence]: shaped curve when we allocate platinum gold
silver bronze and then we also have watch
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[laurence]: and neutral as our worst categories
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[paul_tyler]: so lawrence if if i’m an advisor
selling one
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: of our one of our own companies
products to tsa and i’ve got the materials
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[paul_tyler]: in front of my the table because
the virtual table i have a lot of
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[paul_tyler]: personal risk at stake here right i
could recommend
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[paul_tyler]: induces that creator the next two years
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[laurence]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: um i could uh come over the
recommendations that are all kind of bunched up
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[paul_tyler]: in one in a couple i may
think i’ve diversified the actual
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: industries when in fact i’ve put all
her retirement into sort of one sector m
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[paul_tyler]: sometimes advisers simply default of saying look
tis just pick three or four of these
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[paul_tyler]: and let’s divide by that number and
put them in these industries oh and by
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[paul_tyler]: the way we now have best interest
standards now coming down the pike what
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[laurence]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: does that process look like do i
spend more time with her lawrence do i
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[paul_tyler]: have better tools do i go in
with sort of pre set recommendations what does
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[paul_tyler]: that this looks like two or three
years from now
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[laurence]: you know that’s great let me answer
that in two parts and i would love
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[laurence]: to bring in brandon slave to answer
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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[laurence]: the second part here so you know
let me give you a couple of thoughts
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[laurence]: you know firstly i think the future
is going to be different from the past
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[laurence]: so always looking at these past historical
returns is probably not going to be optimal
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[laurence]: you know and let me give you
some some simple examples right firstly the last
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[laurence]: decade we had low inflation
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye okay
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[laurence]: low interest rates no
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[ramsey_d_smith]: last
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[laurence]: tech
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[ramsey_d_smith]: week
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[laurence]: tail wins and globalization and it was
a great environment for large cap tech going
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[laurence]: forward i think everyone recognizes right we
see higher inflation we see higher rates we
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[laurence]: see dglobalization you know and the tech
is being regulated
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: beg pardon a recent big merger just
got blocked between microsopt and activision visit so
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[laurence]: that you know the world is going
to be different going forward so you know
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[laurence]: i think there are a lot of
people who are just alicating you know hundred
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[laurence]: percent to a bench mark index so
we want to encourage people to look forward
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[laurence]: so the way we do that at
the end ex standard we actually take the
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[laurence]: wisdom of wall street we actually go
and collect about thirty five asset managers and
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[laurence]: banks their ten year forward looking returns
and then what we do is we actually
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[laurence]: apply these these actual
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: expected returns to each index and then
we’re able to produce
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[branislav_nikolic]: m
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[laurence]: a forward looking forecast for each index
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[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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[laurence]: so hand of the brands who is
going to talk about one of our latest
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00:13:03,589 –> 00:13:07,858
[laurence]: innovations on what we’ve been doing around
kind of making that more useful for an
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[laurence]: f i a over over to you
brandslep
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[branislav_nikolic]: thank you laurence so so again the
key for me and one thing that i’m
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[branislav_nikolic]: extremely passionate about is how does this
to your point all get sold or how
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00:13:18,944 –> 00:13:24,457
[branislav_nikolic]: is this presented over virtual or actual
kitchen table right because again who are the
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00:13:24,497 –> 00:13:30,322
[branislav_nikolic]: buyers of annuities or pre retires or
early retires and you have two motives when
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[branislav_nikolic]: one is guaranteed income for life one
is the accumulation with a protected protected downside
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00:13:36,252 –> 00:13:41,521
[branislav_nikolic]: either or you are looking for your
index more often than not to provide basis
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00:13:41,601 –> 00:13:46,048
[branislav_nikolic]: of growth if you’re looking on the
accumulation side obvious if you’re looking on the
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00:13:46,108 –> 00:13:50,976
[branislav_nikolic]: income side you have more and more
products coming in with the ability to harvest
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00:13:51,137 –> 00:13:56,184
[branislav_nikolic]: some of that index growth and trans
laded into um cost of living adjustment on
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00:13:56,244 –> 00:13:59,728
[branislav_nikolic]: your income going forward one way or
the other you have to understand the annuity
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00:14:00,068 –> 00:14:03,845
[branislav_nikolic]: which i will which i like to
think of as like as an engine or
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00:14:03,885 –> 00:14:06,993
[branislav_nikolic]: a car and you have to think
of an index which i like to think
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00:14:07,053 –> 00:14:11,902
[branislav_nikolic]: of as a fuel you can have
like perfect grade fuel you put in a
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00:14:11,922 –> 00:14:16,908
[branislav_nikolic]: bad engine doesn’t go you have a
perfect car put put a basic gasoline in
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00:14:16,989 –> 00:14:21,526
[branislav_nikolic]: it sant go either like it starts
to cling you need the best combination and
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00:14:21,566 –> 00:14:27,315
[branislav_nikolic]: this is where i believe that looking
into forecasts first of all coming from a
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00:14:28,217 –> 00:14:33,526
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence was mentioning with of all street
transformed into how these indessinduscis will do going
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00:14:33,586 –> 00:14:38,434
[branislav_nikolic]: forward putting down through the annuities to
achieve something that we call it in stand
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00:14:38,834 –> 00:14:43,883
[branislav_nikolic]: the net forecast yield basically trying to
what would the annuity with a given crediting
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00:14:43,963 –> 00:14:49,011
[branislav_nikolic]: strategy on a given index provide over
over the next ten years and then on
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00:14:49,092 –> 00:14:54,080
[branislav_nikolic]: top of that now look into all
of these options and see which two three
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00:14:54,260 –> 00:15:00,150
[branislav_nikolic]: five options will give you the highest
expected return going forward so again thinking about
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00:15:00,410 –> 00:15:05,178
[branislav_nikolic]: the design of the engine whether it’s
a strategy whether it’s a parameters are you
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00:15:05,238 –> 00:15:09,283
[branislav_nikolic]: paying a fee it or not what
type of index are you putting to it
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00:15:09,363 –> 00:15:12,926
[branislav_nikolic]: if it’s a bench mark you’re usually
getting a fraction of a return if it’s
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[branislav_nikolic]: a volatility control you get a multiple
now let’s say that you get ten per
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00:15:18,356 –> 00:15:22,591
[branislav_nikolic]: cent return on a bench marine dex
and you get half of it okay ten
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00:15:22,651 –> 00:15:26,056
[branislav_nikolic]: percent are we going to get ten
per cent next year the year after i
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00:15:26,097 –> 00:15:30,324
[branislav_nikolic]: don’t know but if you get well
till controlled index and you get two three
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00:15:30,464 –> 00:15:36,613
[branislav_nikolic]: times of it even if it returns
two three percent you’re already doing doing much
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00:15:36,653 –> 00:15:40,778
[branislav_nikolic]: better all of this has to be
taken taken into context the other one is
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00:15:40,838 –> 00:15:48,860
[branislav_nikolic]: that probably the truth lies somewhere in
between looking into the history and seeing high
329
00:15:48,940 –> 00:15:54,562
[branislav_nikolic]: returns are you going to see these
going forward no you’re going to see exactly
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00:15:54,602 –> 00:15:59,430
[branislav_nikolic]: what’s happening in the forecast probably not
but i think these two are perfect basis
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00:15:59,470 –> 00:16:03,396
[branislav_nikolic]: for conversation one for legal legal reasons
you got to do it because that’s how
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00:16:03,437 –> 00:16:08,821
[branislav_nikolic]: you sell the annuity and the other
one is to basically show that up done
333
00:16:08,881 –> 00:16:13,149
[branislav_nikolic]: some thinking outside of the box in
terms of due diligence and what could happen
334
00:16:13,269 –> 00:16:17,536
[branislav_nikolic]: and again use this as a cheat
cheat to show how well you understand the
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00:16:17,596 –> 00:16:20,672
[branislav_nikolic]: whole car plus the fee on a
race track
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00:16:24,297 –> 00:16:25,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: so a quick question here
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00:16:25,596 –> 00:16:26,766
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh
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00:16:26,141 –> 00:16:29,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: so this this makes a lot of
sense right for a variety of
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00:16:29,580 –> 00:16:30,720
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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00:16:29,646 –> 00:16:36,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: reasons and the question is has anybody
done this before has there been has there
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00:16:36,778 –> 00:16:41,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: been primarily a focus on history and
in particular back testing
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00:16:42,934 –> 00:16:45,197
[laurence]: yeah i think there’s been such
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00:16:45,180 –> 00:16:46,440
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
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00:16:45,278 –> 00:16:50,346
[laurence]: a focus in on the industry and
back testing and listen it has a place
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00:16:50,506 –> 00:16:50,647
[laurence]: but
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00:16:50,529 –> 00:16:50,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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00:16:51,147 –> 00:16:52,369
[laurence]: what we like to say is
348
00:16:52,448 –> 00:16:52,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: i
349
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:57,324
[laurence]: take the back test and take the
all cast and sort of think about the
350
00:16:57,538 –> 00:16:57,619
[ramsey_d_smith]: no
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00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:01,912
[laurence]: using it together let me give you
like a common sense example that we we’ve
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00:17:01,952 –> 00:17:07,662
[laurence]: been thinking about so right now some
of the large cap tech industries have the
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00:17:07,722 –> 00:17:13,595
[laurence]: last ten years historical returns of sixteen
per cent so let’s kind of apply common
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00:17:13,675 –> 00:17:15,116
[laurence]: logic and let’s take apple
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00:17:14,910 –> 00:17:15,578
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
356
00:17:15,576 –> 00:17:20,601
[laurence]: apples the largest constituent of a lot
of pig teck industries so apple the market
357
00:17:20,661 –> 00:17:25,256
[laurence]: cap right now is about two point
four trillion so if i take that two
358
00:17:25,316 –> 00:17:29,624
[laurence]: point four trillion and i’m going to
compound it at sixteen percent like many
359
00:17:29,647 –> 00:17:29,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
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00:17:30,025 –> 00:17:34,858
[laurence]: is shown in the the software illustrations
actually that means in ten years time apple
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00:17:34,898 –> 00:17:40,558
[laurence]: is going to have to have a
market cap of ten trillion dollars now maybe
362
00:17:40,598 –> 00:17:40,919
[laurence]: that’s going
363
00:17:40,957 –> 00:17:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
364
00:17:40,959 –> 00:17:41,940
[laurence]: to happen but
365
00:17:41,850 –> 00:17:42,630
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:42,762
[laurence]: like let me give you some
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00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:42,942
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
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00:17:42,802 –> 00:17:49,112
[laurence]: context the german g p is three
point eight trillion so it might happen right
369
00:17:49,413 –> 00:17:50,214
[laurence]: but that’s we
370
00:17:50,280 –> 00:17:50,300
[branislav_nikolic]: m
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00:17:50,414 –> 00:17:54,842
[laurence]: want to encourage people to be diverse
because you know i was just saying i
372
00:17:54,882 –> 00:17:58,187
[laurence]: think it’s going to be a decade
of discomfort right we’ve seen the end of
373
00:17:58,248 –> 00:18:02,238
[laurence]: globalization is going to be difficult so
i think you want to be diverse right
374
00:18:03,114 –> 00:18:07,821
[laurence]: look at emerging markets there their historic
or returns for the last ten years kind
375
00:18:07,861 –> 00:18:11,326
[laurence]: of like about zero maybe they’re going
to do better right you want to put
376
00:18:11,367 –> 00:18:11,387
[laurence]: a
377
00:18:11,409 –> 00:18:11,430
[branislav_nikolic]: m
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00:18:11,427 –> 00:18:15,433
[laurence]: little bit of money in there right
now everyone’s so bearish about europe but maybe
379
00:18:15,473 –> 00:18:19,200
[laurence]: you want to sprinkle a little bit
in there too so we just think being
380
00:18:19,260 –> 00:18:26,051
[laurence]: diversified is really important and with our
innovation of helping people to choose across complicated
381
00:18:26,452 –> 00:18:31,360
[laurence]: crediting strategies that brands have just outlined
we take that complicated choice between they say
382
00:18:31,761 –> 00:18:35,669
[laurence]: choosing fifty percent of a bench mark
index or two hundred per cent in a
383
00:18:35,730 –> 00:18:40,530
[laurence]: risk control index just make that into
an apples to apples conversation where we can
384
00:18:40,581 –> 00:18:40,682
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
385
00:18:40,630 –> 00:18:43,718
[laurence]: say maybe you’re gonna get five here
and maybe you goin to get eight here
386
00:18:44,199 –> 00:18:45,782
[laurence]: to build a diversified portfolio
387
00:18:46,560 –> 00:18:50,887
[branislav_nikolic]: one thing lawrence that i would like
to add again lawrence being an expert to
388
00:18:50,927 –> 00:18:54,433
[branislav_nikolic]: what i call fuel and industries again
like its great great insight but again looking
389
00:18:54,493 –> 00:18:59,241
[branislav_nikolic]: into just these strategies that you get
in these annuities strategies they are built to
390
00:18:59,681 –> 00:19:04,469
[branislav_nikolic]: harvest the sharp growth you have strategies
that give you cap return so basically you’re
391
00:19:04,489 –> 00:19:08,316
[branislav_nikolic]: looking for a pause that have some
they’re looking for just positive return and then
392
00:19:08,356 –> 00:19:13,765
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re good you have those they are
looking for consistently positive return without any volatility
393
00:19:13,865 –> 00:19:14,085
[branislav_nikolic]: in them
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00:19:14,947 –> 00:19:15,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
395
00:19:15,328 –> 00:19:19,094
[branislav_nikolic]: how to know again you can have
your view of the market have your outlook
396
00:19:19,695 –> 00:19:23,782
[branislav_nikolic]: but how exactly you know where to
put on so if your money you don’t
397
00:19:23,822 –> 00:19:27,087
[branislav_nikolic]: have to you don’t have to know
that’s why it’s good to diversify that’s why
398
00:19:27,167 –> 00:19:33,518
[branislav_nikolic]: it’s good to diversify strategies crsindusties and
basically get all of these tools available to
399
00:19:33,578 –> 00:19:37,056
[branislav_nikolic]: you working for the for the end
user which is the most important piece
400
00:19:38,589 –> 00:19:38,710
[paul_tyler]: this
401
00:19:38,745 –> 00:19:38,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: and
402
00:19:38,771 –> 00:19:38,831
[paul_tyler]: is
403
00:19:38,886 –> 00:19:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: a
404
00:19:38,891 –> 00:19:38,912
[paul_tyler]: a
405
00:19:38,946 –> 00:19:39,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: key
406
00:19:38,972 –> 00:19:39,455
[paul_tyler]: complicated
407
00:19:39,168 –> 00:19:39,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: element of this
408
00:19:39,959 –> 00:19:40,362
[paul_tyler]: problem
409
00:19:42,447 –> 00:19:46,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s gonna say a key element of
this is that um figuring
410
00:19:46,050 –> 00:19:46,736
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
411
00:19:46,433 –> 00:19:50,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: out how diversified you are not a
simple problem right so it’s not just
412
00:19:50,580 –> 00:19:50,863
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
413
00:19:51,241 –> 00:19:52,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: um you know joe the advisor
414
00:19:52,740 –> 00:19:53,610
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
415
00:19:53,144 –> 00:19:57,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: saying i’d like i’d like so i’d
like some europe i’d like like some us
416
00:19:57,331 –> 00:20:02,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: exposure et cetera because there are there
are correlations across those various assets as well
417
00:20:02,440 –> 00:20:04,343
[ramsey_d_smith]: so it’s i think
418
00:20:04,294 –> 00:20:04,520
[laurence]: oh
419
00:20:04,383 –> 00:20:09,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: that folks in the audience that would
they’re using a platform like this it’s important
420
00:20:09,131 –> 00:20:14,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: to understand that that it’s you can’t
really do it properly unless you have a
421
00:20:14,240 –> 00:20:21,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: pretty sophisticated engine under the hood to
be able to capture not just the obvious
422
00:20:21,087 –> 00:20:25,654
[ramsey_d_smith]: sources of diversification but also the less
obvious places where you may be is not
423
00:20:25,694 –> 00:20:26,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: as diversified as you think
424
00:20:27,959 –> 00:20:28,100
[paul_tyler]: yeah
425
00:20:28,795 –> 00:20:29,596
[laurence]: that’s a great point
426
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:29,542
[branislav_nikolic]: ye
427
00:20:29,817 –> 00:20:33,743
[laurence]: and you know we do work with
chanics to get some of the data and
428
00:20:33,843 –> 00:20:39,493
[laurence]: brands joined us from them and actually
on our staff we’ve got mostly quits you
429
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:43,079
[laurence]: know we have j watson who’s one
of our other partners he’s got a quant
430
00:20:43,199 –> 00:20:47,847
[laurence]: background we’ve got trent mckenna who also
has masters in finance j has a ph
431
00:20:47,887 –> 00:20:47,907
[laurence]: d
432
00:20:48,067 –> 00:20:48,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
433
00:20:48,107 –> 00:20:51,232
[laurence]: and brand slave has masters and working
on his ph d so
434
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:51,643
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
435
00:20:51,994 –> 00:20:53,236
[laurence]: i’ve only got an m b a
so i’m
436
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:53,402
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
437
00:20:53,296 –> 00:20:53,416
[laurence]: like
438
00:20:53,317 –> 00:20:53,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
439
00:20:53,496 –> 00:20:54,999
[laurence]: i feel you know these guys are
440
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:56,790
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
441
00:20:55,860 –> 00:21:00,187
[laurence]: the smart guys that we have here
and yeahit’it’s very complicated and we spend a
442
00:21:00,368 –> 00:21:00,528
[laurence]: lot
443
00:21:00,476 –> 00:21:01,166
[paul_tyler]: oh
444
00:21:00,568 –> 00:21:04,074
[laurence]: of time modeling that out but the
key thing is we want to make it’s
445
00:21:04,234 –> 00:21:06,095
[laurence]: simple for people and present an
446
00:21:06,057 –> 00:21:06,077
[branislav_nikolic]: m
447
00:21:06,276 –> 00:21:09,659
[laurence]: apples to apples comparison we want to
help people and boil it down just what
448
00:21:09,699 –> 00:21:13,542
[laurence]: do you need to know here’s the
apples to apples comparison and here is a
449
00:21:13,582 –> 00:21:14,303
[laurence]: way to allocate
450
00:21:14,786 –> 00:21:15,071
[paul_tyler]: yeah
451
00:21:15,150 –> 00:21:15,170
[branislav_nikolic]: a
452
00:21:15,164 –> 00:21:16,491
[laurence]: this industry is too complicated
453
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:17,252
[paul_tyler]: look
454
00:21:17,432 –> 00:21:21,599
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence one thing that you touched on
and i think it’s important in ramsey asked
455
00:21:21,639 –> 00:21:24,944
[branislav_nikolic]: this like has anyone done any of
this before and i think that we are
456
00:21:25,004 –> 00:21:29,712
[branislav_nikolic]: trying basically to raise the tide i
think that this industry requires all the parties
457
00:21:29,772 –> 00:21:34,921
[branislav_nikolic]: to collaborate and i think this is
where we get again great data and some
458
00:21:35,021 –> 00:21:37,645
[branislav_nikolic]: simple calculations for mechanics we have our
our index
459
00:21:38,617 –> 00:21:38,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
460
00:21:38,747 –> 00:21:40,910
[branislav_nikolic]: index forecast we have our
461
00:21:40,826 –> 00:21:40,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
462
00:21:41,010 –> 00:21:42,031
[branislav_nikolic]: model locations
463
00:21:42,343 –> 00:21:42,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes
464
00:21:42,431 –> 00:21:45,054
[branislav_nikolic]: we are willing to work with others
because at the end of the day i
465
00:21:45,114 –> 00:21:49,678
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is a tide and i
think that shift has to happen it’s important
466
00:21:49,738 –> 00:21:55,141
[branislav_nikolic]: for it to happen again for again
for the end user it’s the most important
467
00:21:55,181 –> 00:22:01,606
[branislav_nikolic]: that this ship happens and legal point
of view will catch up the illustrations their
468
00:22:01,686 –> 00:22:06,514
[branislav_nikolic]: legal requirements the important part of it
but they don’t tell a full story and
469
00:22:06,594 –> 00:22:11,322
[branislav_nikolic]: we are trying to augment that story
that makes it more palatable and easier to
470
00:22:11,362 –> 00:22:16,751
[branislav_nikolic]: have as a conversation today but two
years from now if things don’t turn out
471
00:22:17,413 –> 00:22:20,397
[branislav_nikolic]: like what was shown in illustration that’s
the most important bit
472
00:22:20,887 –> 00:22:21,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
473
00:22:21,256 –> 00:22:25,924
[paul_tyler]: yea let me talk a little bit
more about what diversity actually means
474
00:22:25,777 –> 00:22:26,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah
475
00:22:26,805 –> 00:22:27,266
[paul_tyler]: i like the
476
00:22:27,186 –> 00:22:27,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah
477
00:22:27,306 –> 00:22:32,795
[paul_tyler]: fact lawrence you say we encourage people
to look at back tested returns against four
478
00:22:32,956 –> 00:22:36,401
[paul_tyler]: acid returns there’s also a time factor
right because
479
00:22:37,276 –> 00:22:37,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
480
00:22:37,804 –> 00:22:43,874
[paul_tyler]: if you think about possible outcomes you
may have one fund that appears to have
481
00:22:44,490 –> 00:22:44,993
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
482
00:22:44,495 –> 00:22:50,605
[paul_tyler]: highest likelihood or industry of great returns
but there are also some outliers right through
483
00:22:50,665 –> 00:22:51,607
[paul_tyler]: some cases where
484
00:22:51,541 –> 00:22:51,994
[laurence]: hm
485
00:22:52,829 –> 00:22:57,977
[paul_tyler]: wow tsa could get zero she might
get twenty and return she might get a
486
00:22:58,078 –> 00:22:59,700
[paul_tyler]: zero now if she’s
487
00:22:59,677 –> 00:22:59,800
[laurence]: yeah
488
00:22:59,760 –> 00:23:02,785
[paul_tyler]: about to retire two years from now
and start to pull money
489
00:23:02,786 –> 00:23:02,806
[laurence]: a
490
00:23:02,946 –> 00:23:06,331
[paul_tyler]: out how do i factor in the
possibility
491
00:23:05,949 –> 00:23:05,990
[laurence]: a
492
00:23:06,492 –> 00:23:08,575
[paul_tyler]: that there might be a zero here
493
00:23:09,444 –> 00:23:13,871
[laurence]: yeah right there’s so so much in
what you’ve asked me that
494
00:23:13,980 –> 00:23:15,030
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
495
00:23:14,292 –> 00:23:15,333
[laurence]: d love to talk about so
496
00:23:15,300 –> 00:23:15,563
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
497
00:23:16,155 –> 00:23:22,004
[laurence]: you know great thought so the first
thing is i think everyone really expect bench
498
00:23:22,084 –> 00:23:27,089
[laurence]: mark industries to give positive returns right
the last ten years accepted this year we’ve
499
00:23:27,129 –> 00:23:30,692
[laurence]: just seen positive return so people have
been treated and we all have this recency
500
00:23:30,812 –> 00:23:35,409
[laurence]: bias now this year we’re probably going
to see a negative on many of the
501
00:23:35,449 –> 00:23:40,136
[laurence]: major bench marks and next year if
you look at some of the one year
502
00:23:40,237 –> 00:23:43,462
[laurence]: forecasts that some of the investment banks
put out a couple of investment banks are
503
00:23:43,522 –> 00:23:44,644
[laurence]: calling for negative
504
00:23:44,400 –> 00:23:44,420
[branislav_nikolic]: m
505
00:23:44,684 –> 00:23:48,550
[laurence]: returns so i think people are going
to be shocked so what you really want
506
00:23:48,611 –> 00:23:53,058
[laurence]: to do is find industries that ying
and yang when you know one is up
507
00:23:53,358 –> 00:23:56,408
[laurence]: the other one’s down and vice versa
right so that’s what you got to find
508
00:23:56,568 –> 00:23:57,892
[laurence]: industries that yang and yang
509
00:23:58,249 –> 00:23:58,469
[bruno_caron]: oh
510
00:23:59,054 –> 00:24:03,178
[laurence]: then you want to blend them in
now why is this important i got to
511
00:24:03,258 –> 00:24:06,801
[laurence]: tell you i think the most important
thing in finance that we all tend to
512
00:24:06,862 –> 00:24:13,190
[laurence]: forget is compounding compounding is the magic
in finance right just by eking out a
513
00:24:13,230 –> 00:24:18,239
[laurence]: little positive return each year the next
year you’re compounding on a higher number so
514
00:24:18,740 –> 00:24:23,267
[laurence]: if you can get your client even
two or three and versus zero that
515
00:24:23,284 –> 00:24:23,367
[bruno_caron]: ah
516
00:24:23,367 –> 00:24:25,110
[laurence]: next year you’re going to start at
one o three
517
00:24:25,020 –> 00:24:25,890
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
518
00:24:25,711 –> 00:24:27,093
[laurence]: kind of compound that return so
519
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:27,765
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
520
00:24:27,594 –> 00:24:30,960
[laurence]: compounding is the magic that’s what you
want to do is just get your clients
521
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:34,110
[laurence]: a little positive return and you can
build wealth like that
522
00:24:34,980 –> 00:24:37,484
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence i would like to kind of
add to that a bit and i think
523
00:24:37,504 –> 00:24:40,068
[branislav_nikolic]: this is an important one so when
you look into bench mark industries in the
524
00:24:40,128 –> 00:24:44,355
[branislav_nikolic]: last thirty years let’s say you would
see that we had like periods there will
525
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:47,701
[branislav_nikolic]: last like seven or ten years and
then we have a correction so there was
526
00:24:47,761 –> 00:24:51,908
[branislav_nikolic]: no period of twenty years that you
had like positive high positive return there was
527
00:24:52,028 –> 00:24:56,315
[branislav_nikolic]: always something happening in the middle that
would kind of take us back and then
528
00:24:56,335 –> 00:24:57,657
[branislav_nikolic]: you have like the star
529
00:24:57,709 –> 00:24:57,830
[bruno_caron]: ye
530
00:24:57,738 –> 00:24:59,882
[branislav_nikolic]: grow look at a history of those
industries
531
00:24:59,749 –> 00:25:00,014
[bruno_caron]: oh
532
00:25:00,222 –> 00:25:04,431
[branislav_nikolic]: you had periods in thirties forties fifties
even sixties
533
00:25:04,240 –> 00:25:04,341
[bruno_caron]: ah
534
00:25:04,512 –> 00:25:07,618
[branislav_nikolic]: that they had like a constant seven
percent return so if we are
535
00:25:08,134 –> 00:25:08,154
[laurence]: m
536
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:10,914
[branislav_nikolic]: we can go back at a time
i think that
537
00:25:11,584 –> 00:25:11,888
[laurence]: oh
538
00:25:11,655 –> 00:25:15,281
[branislav_nikolic]: our conversation today will be obsolete if
you have a index returning seven percent year
539
00:25:15,421 –> 00:25:19,869
[branislav_nikolic]: over here here we are talking about
people thinking of averages but the sequence of
540
00:25:19,929 –> 00:25:23,712
[branislav_nikolic]: returns there’s a lot and then that’s
what i think will lawrence is saying i
541
00:25:23,752 –> 00:25:29,057
[branislav_nikolic]: would try to relate to the annuity
folks a little bit different is basically saying
542
00:25:29,097 –> 00:25:33,346
[branislav_nikolic]: that if you have a seven or
ten year annuity are you better off getting
543
00:25:34,670 –> 00:25:36,954
[branislav_nikolic]: solid returns three five
544
00:25:36,919 –> 00:25:36,939
[bruno_caron]: m
545
00:25:37,014 –> 00:25:41,441
[branislav_nikolic]: or seven out of out of ten
years or you should get positive return in
546
00:25:41,521 –> 00:25:45,107
[branislav_nikolic]: all ten of them and again depending
how these are using the plan if you’re
547
00:25:45,187 –> 00:25:50,236
[branislav_nikolic]: living of interest or or that a
fixed fixed credit you want it every year
548
00:25:50,416 –> 00:25:53,221
[branislav_nikolic]: and you want to be able to
plan so i guess it really matters how
549
00:25:53,301 –> 00:25:58,249
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re putting this into into into the
annuity as well another thing that became apparent
550
00:25:58,005 –> 00:25:58,026
[bruno_caron]: a
551
00:25:58,349 –> 00:25:59,912
[branislav_nikolic]: as ere doing the research for the
model
552
00:25:59,749 –> 00:26:00,010
[bruno_caron]: oh
553
00:25:59,972 –> 00:26:04,820
[branislav_nikolic]: of location was that there are some
strategies when you look on a forecast a
554
00:26:04,900 –> 00:26:08,266
[branislav_nikolic]: basis they don’t even bee to fix
rate again fixed rate a year ago we
555
00:26:08,286 –> 00:26:12,132
[branislav_nikolic]: wouldn’t be even talking about it but
today it is like three or four five
556
00:26:12,212 –> 00:26:12,693
[branislav_nikolic]: percent
557
00:26:13,031 –> 00:26:13,444
[laurence]: hm
558
00:26:13,294 –> 00:26:14,136
[branislav_nikolic]: and you have a strategy
559
00:26:13,789 –> 00:26:14,072
[bruno_caron]: yah
560
00:26:14,216 –> 00:26:15,197
[branislav_nikolic]: they have a forecast that
561
00:26:15,288 –> 00:26:15,349
[bruno_caron]: ah
562
00:26:15,297 –> 00:26:20,807
[branislav_nikolic]: any yield or return less than that
now that begs the question why at all
563
00:26:20,887 –> 00:26:26,674
[branislav_nikolic]: participate why don’t ye some of the
security of the high fixed rates going forward
564
00:26:27,094 –> 00:26:31,579
[branislav_nikolic]: and combine that with some with some
other industries again what five per cent will
565
00:26:32,360 –> 00:26:35,605
[branislav_nikolic]: keep you up with inflation of seven
i don’t think so but i don’t think
566
00:26:35,665 –> 00:26:39,431
[branislav_nikolic]: inflation of seven is going to be
year after year so a lot of a
567
00:26:39,491 –> 00:26:43,618
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of things to unpack and it’s
why i think that locating across everything that’s
568
00:26:43,658 –> 00:26:54,384
[branislav_nikolic]: available within annuity looking into this is
the recification strategy versification banking on historically high
569
00:26:54,765 –> 00:26:58,658
[branislav_nikolic]: rates i think there’s a lot a
lot to consider
570
00:26:59,714 –> 00:27:03,200
[laurence]: and actually barn said there’s also another
complexity you sort of people have the choice
571
00:27:03,260 –> 00:27:06,546
[laurence]: sort i choose a one year point
to point or two year or three year
572
00:27:06,766 –> 00:27:10,933
[laurence]: up to a six year right and
that’s another complexity that we look at and
573
00:27:10,993 –> 00:27:13,821
[laurence]: try figure that out so yeah there’s
a lot going on in these in these
574
00:27:13,881 –> 00:27:14,142
[laurence]: products
575
00:27:16,919 –> 00:27:17,400
[bruno_caron]: a lot’s going
576
00:27:17,377 –> 00:27:17,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
577
00:27:17,480 –> 00:27:21,587
[bruno_caron]: on to say the least and i
think there’s a lot of material in what
578
00:27:22,489 –> 00:27:24,292
[bruno_caron]: to unpack and what you just said
579
00:27:25,050 –> 00:27:25,920
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
580
00:27:25,113 –> 00:27:34,108
[bruno_caron]: in terms of decumulation the sequence of
return uh and all that diversification um if
581
00:27:34,268 –> 00:27:39,657
[bruno_caron]: we put all the pieces together you
you mentioned that
582
00:27:39,547 –> 00:27:39,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
583
00:27:39,797 –> 00:27:48,852
[bruno_caron]: yeah you’re launching this the model application
for for f i as um first of
584
00:27:48,893 –> 00:27:53,200
[bruno_caron]: all can you tell us a little
bit of you know some of the uh
585
00:27:53,661 –> 00:28:00,452
[bruno_caron]: the time line behind that and what
does that mean ultimately for for the consumer
586
00:28:00,592 –> 00:28:04,681
[bruno_caron]: and how are they going to be
able to use that that’s past to
587
00:28:06,314 –> 00:28:10,361
[laurence]: thanks bruno so we’ve we’ve been working
on this for the last year it’s taken
588
00:28:10,441 –> 00:28:16,291
[laurence]: us some time to model out more
than three thousand crediting strategies and then figure
589
00:28:16,371 –> 00:28:17,613
[laurence]: out an application so
590
00:28:17,580 –> 00:28:17,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
591
00:28:17,794 –> 00:28:19,837
[laurence]: you’re going to be launching in january
592
00:28:20,169 –> 00:28:20,349
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
593
00:28:20,578 –> 00:28:24,565
[laurence]: um you know we’re starting to tell
people and in fact we’re grateful to be
594
00:28:24,645 –> 00:28:27,910
[laurence]: here on on the on the podcast
right now and that’s part of our mission
595
00:28:27,990 –> 00:28:32,658
[laurence]: to tell people and so through the
course of december we’ll be letting a lot
596
00:28:32,698 –> 00:28:37,727
[laurence]: of our partners insurance carriers know and
then mid mid to end of jane we’ll
597
00:28:37,767 –> 00:28:41,172
[laurence]: be launching formally going to market and
telling everyone about it
598
00:28:41,311 –> 00:28:41,351
[branislav_nikolic]: m
599
00:28:41,633 –> 00:28:42,454
[laurence]: make and available
600
00:28:42,579 –> 00:28:42,600
[branislav_nikolic]: m
601
00:28:42,955 –> 00:28:47,300
[laurence]: we’ve already got one or two partners
who’ve signed on so we’re excited because it
602
00:28:47,340 –> 00:28:49,503
[laurence]: helps our mission we want to see
people do better
603
00:28:52,717 –> 00:28:53,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was
604
00:28:53,160 –> 00:28:53,381
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
605
00:28:53,638 –> 00:29:03,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: i was recently in a conversation with
listen fairly sizable financial institution in you know
606
00:29:03,271 –> 00:29:09,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the advisory space i’ll say and
they were trying to figure out different ways
607
00:29:09,139 –> 00:29:15,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to incorporate more annuities into their
their platform and one of the challenges was
608
00:29:15,570 –> 00:29:21,240
[ramsey_d_smith]: that increasingly the advisors were being asked
less and less to make investment decisions and
609
00:29:21,260 –> 00:29:25,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were more focused on relationship management
and so the implication of that is that
610
00:29:25,687 –> 00:29:25,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: the
611
00:29:25,944 –> 00:29:26,089
[laurence]: yeah
612
00:29:26,308 –> 00:29:32,703
[ramsey_d_smith]: that the investment strategies the acid application
strategies actually come from a central source right
613
00:29:33,085 –> 00:29:36,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the centralized sources need to use
614
00:29:36,157 –> 00:29:36,342
[laurence]: yeah
615
00:29:36,568 –> 00:29:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: rely on models that use a lot
of data and so you think about use
616
00:29:41,717 –> 00:29:47,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: cases what you’re building here lawrence and
brandaslav is that you’re bringing you’re bringing robt
617
00:29:47,748 –> 00:29:53,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: data you know where it didn’t exist
before so that it can potentially be used
618
00:29:53,384 –> 00:29:57,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: at a you know at a sort
of an entity level
619
00:29:57,137 –> 00:29:57,281
[laurence]: kay
620
00:29:57,331 –> 00:30:01,117
[ramsey_d_smith]: if you will i like to call
it factory settings right at an entity level
621
00:30:01,698 –> 00:30:07,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: nd level for larger financial institutions so
that at the end of the day know
622
00:30:07,347 –> 00:30:11,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: the advisor the advisor will be able
to rely on something that’s been fully veded
623
00:30:11,655 –> 00:30:15,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: at an institutional level but in order
for all that to work you know you
624
00:30:15,641 –> 00:30:20,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: have to have reliable data and to
your point earlier it didn’t really didn’t exist
625
00:30:20,469 –> 00:30:27,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: across the whole sort of spectrum of
offerings until guys launch this product so grat
626
00:30:30,174 –> 00:30:34,061
[laurence]: yeah thank you know i’ll make a
remark and then see if brandon has anything
627
00:30:34,121 –> 00:30:38,268
[laurence]: to add you know one of the
things we see having worked for a large
628
00:30:38,328 –> 00:30:42,876
[laurence]: financial institution in my in my prior
life one of the key things is everyone
629
00:30:42,956 –> 00:30:44,920
[laurence]: wants some kind of forecast
630
00:30:45,007 –> 00:30:45,108
[paul_tyler]: ah
631
00:30:45,301 –> 00:30:50,912
[laurence]: expected returns expected volatility what’s the correlation
they need those to plug into their model
632
00:30:52,064 –> 00:30:55,369
[laurence]: and in the annuity space there’s been
nothing now with what we do at the
633
00:30:55,429 –> 00:31:00,758
[laurence]: ende standard we’re able to provide expected
returns expected volatility and we know the correlation
634
00:31:00,838 –> 00:31:06,330
[laurence]: so we can help feel those those
dis sons that these institutions are having we
635
00:31:06,390 –> 00:31:12,104
[laurence]: can provide the imputs and i think
my final observation is this that i think
636
00:31:12,144 –> 00:31:17,473
[laurence]: if you were to use some of
the expect to expected returns we see i
637
00:31:17,553 –> 00:31:21,901
[laurence]: think the annuities would get a bigger
allocation than they have been because you know
638
00:31:21,981 –> 00:31:26,369
[laurence]: they have no downside risking case of
fear arilayouknow it’s kept and some
639
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:26,640
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
640
00:31:26,409 –> 00:31:30,416
[laurence]: of the expected returns might be three
four five six very consistent so i think
641
00:31:30,437 –> 00:31:33,082
[laurence]: they get a larger allocation and that
would surprise
642
00:31:32,802 –> 00:31:32,967
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
643
00:31:33,142 –> 00:31:34,744
[laurence]: a lot of people brand left
644
00:31:35,852 –> 00:31:40,440
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah i think there’s there’s like to
two levels of this conversation one is how
645
00:31:40,480 –> 00:31:44,667
[branislav_nikolic]: do you incorporate is in the broader
porfolia and when lawrence mentioned knowing what this
646
00:31:44,727 –> 00:31:50,597
[branislav_nikolic]: could return at what level of i
think would make advisors more comfortable again we
647
00:31:50,677 –> 00:31:55,565
[branislav_nikolic]: have a generation of advisors who grew
up in a in a bull market right
648
00:31:55,705 –> 00:32:02,256
[branislav_nikolic]: and would you ever consider an annuity
a safe investment downside when you never had
649
00:32:02,356 –> 00:32:06,183
[branislav_nikolic]: to now i think we are getting
to that realization that that that that’s goin
650
00:32:06,223 –> 00:32:11,652
[branislav_nikolic]: to start happening and again a lot
of great too is available out there a
651
00:32:11,712 –> 00:32:18,643
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of a lot of parties providing
phenomenal either end to end processes or optimal
652
00:32:18,784 –> 00:32:25,398
[branislav_nikolic]: product locations or simulators of how well
you do where you lock should locate your
653
00:32:25,498 –> 00:32:31,701
[branislav_nikolic]: assets the key is that no one
knew how to project ger quotes the annuity
654
00:32:31,781 –> 00:32:32,943
[branislav_nikolic]: going forward and i
655
00:32:33,013 –> 00:32:33,034
[laurence]: m
656
00:32:33,023 –> 00:32:36,487
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is this is important piece
that we that we bring bring bring to
657
00:32:36,547 –> 00:32:36,627
[branislav_nikolic]: the
658
00:32:36,561 –> 00:32:36,643
[paul_tyler]: ah
659
00:32:36,667 –> 00:32:44,366
[branislav_nikolic]: table again something that it’s showing not
only in the retail market but
660
00:32:44,376 –> 00:32:45,516
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah
661
00:32:44,447 –> 00:32:49,495
[branislav_nikolic]: more importantly now spilling over into an
institutional market as well the people are adopting
662
00:32:49,555 –> 00:32:55,685
[branislav_nikolic]: these concepts d c pension plan level
that really kind of add the validity to
663
00:32:55,765 –> 00:33:00,493
[branislav_nikolic]: it and it kind of adds to
the eds conversation that if super conservative folks
664
00:33:00,694 –> 00:33:02,637
[branislav_nikolic]: and legal kind of legally aware
665
00:33:03,146 –> 00:33:03,896
[paul_tyler]: oh
666
00:33:04,361 –> 00:33:09,062
[branislav_nikolic]: are considering adding these into the mix
had to be a good thing so so
667
00:33:09,162 –> 00:33:12,846
[branislav_nikolic]: so at a lot a lot is
happening and we we we love to be
668
00:33:13,006 –> 00:33:15,049
[branislav_nikolic]: to be a part of part of
that conversation for sure
669
00:33:14,946 –> 00:33:15,127
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh
670
00:33:15,786 –> 00:33:20,534
[paul_tyler]: no i honestly think you could be
the next morning star right in the
671
00:33:20,670 –> 00:33:21,270
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
672
00:33:21,055 –> 00:33:23,919
[paul_tyler]: space i don’t know if that infringes
on cope
673
00:33:23,820 –> 00:33:24,265
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
674
00:33:24,040 –> 00:33:24,540
[paul_tyler]: rites but
675
00:33:24,484 –> 00:33:24,705
[laurence]: oh
676
00:33:25,101 –> 00:33:25,602
[paul_tyler]: lawrence that’s what
677
00:33:25,590 –> 00:33:25,870
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
678
00:33:25,642 –> 00:33:25,983
[paul_tyler]: i call you
679
00:33:26,631 –> 00:33:26,872
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
680
00:33:26,684 –> 00:33:30,711
[paul_tyler]: so you know ve been doing so
much work with you know agents helping themselves
681
00:33:30,791 –> 00:33:31,232
[paul_tyler]: digitally
682
00:33:30,999 –> 00:33:31,200
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
683
00:33:31,312 –> 00:33:33,495
[paul_tyler]: tell a story talking to consumers
684
00:33:33,345 –> 00:33:33,366
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m
685
00:33:34,016 –> 00:33:39,525
[paul_tyler]: you know what goes through your mind
when you think about trying explain something this
686
00:33:39,626 –> 00:33:43,439
[paul_tyler]: complex on a website in a brosirt
in a video
687
00:33:43,609 –> 00:33:48,051
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm yeah i mean when i think
lawrence i heard you talk about you know
688
00:33:48,292 –> 00:33:51,196
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the mer and missus smith or the
generic consumer
689
00:33:51,630 –> 00:33:52,710
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
690
00:33:51,757 –> 00:33:57,648
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: are retiring out there thinking about planning
and de mystifying the idea of an annuity
691
00:33:57,709 –> 00:34:04,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: and the complexities of what we’re talking
about how does your presentation or or the
692
00:34:04,933 –> 00:34:08,679
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: educational tools at you’re offering how does
it break it down for them to kind
693
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,849
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of combat the emotional side of the
decision right um you’ve talked about the changing
694
00:34:15,911 –> 00:34:18,896
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: interest rates and inflation and all the
things that are ahead and a lot of
695
00:34:18,936 –> 00:34:23,183
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the unknowns that are on head ahead
how does the tool kind of speak to
696
00:34:23,223 –> 00:34:23,384
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that
697
00:34:23,454 –> 00:34:23,596
[laurence]: yeah
698
00:34:23,564 –> 00:34:26,688
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: emotional side oh i’ll say fear but
699
00:34:27,314 –> 00:34:27,743
[laurence]: damn
700
00:34:27,469 –> 00:34:30,953
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at least sort of that uncertainty that’s
ahead and that agent or advisor bringing him
701
00:34:31,013 –> 00:34:32,875
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: through those conversations
702
00:34:32,190 –> 00:34:33,090
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
703
00:34:34,354 –> 00:34:39,723
[laurence]: i think in a couple ways so
firstly what we do is for each index
704
00:34:39,943 –> 00:34:44,010
[laurence]: we evaluated so we’ll put a platinum
gold and silver
705
00:34:43,746 –> 00:34:43,908
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay
706
00:34:44,070 –> 00:34:44,992
[laurence]: and so on so that
707
00:34:45,028 –> 00:34:45,495
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: got reading
708
00:34:45,392 –> 00:34:48,718
[laurence]: you can add glance see what that
index is doing so it
709
00:34:48,722 –> 00:34:49,236
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm
710
00:34:48,758 –> 00:34:52,604
[laurence]: might be a little bit unfamiliar but
you get our sort of stamp of whether
711
00:34:52,644 –> 00:34:57,292
[laurence]: we think it’s a robust and well
designed index now the other thing we do
712
00:34:57,733 –> 00:35:03,445
[laurence]: is we all know finance is complex
and people love to use complicated
713
00:35:03,330 –> 00:35:03,596
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
714
00:35:03,505 –> 00:35:04,368
[laurence]: language so we actually
715
00:35:04,290 –> 00:35:05,460
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
716
00:35:04,448 –> 00:35:06,052
[laurence]: have a copy writer on our staff
717
00:35:06,177 –> 00:35:06,360
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay
718
00:35:06,714 –> 00:35:10,484
[laurence]: and we try and use straight forward
and clear language so i give you the
719
00:35:10,544 –> 00:35:16,560
[laurence]: example the way we would describe a
risk control index we just say cushions and
720
00:35:16,620 –> 00:35:17,102
[laurence]: it’s smooth
721
00:35:18,369 –> 00:35:18,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah
722
00:35:18,504 –> 00:35:22,472
[laurence]: and then the final thing that we
do is we have our forecasting reports
723
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:23,041
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
724
00:35:23,804 –> 00:35:26,711
[laurence]: and we very clearly show here that
the last ten
725
00:35:26,639 –> 00:35:26,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
726
00:35:26,771 –> 00:35:32,121
[laurence]: years maybe you got let’s say six
per cent and then here is what how
727
00:35:32,201 –> 00:35:35,206
[laurence]: we applied the wisdom of wall street
to that index and maybe you’re gonna get
728
00:35:35,867 –> 00:35:40,415
[laurence]: seven eight or nine or maybe you
got sixteen in history and we think you’re
729
00:35:40,435 –> 00:35:44,181
[laurence]: going to get full but we have
very clear bar chart so we try and
730
00:35:44,261 –> 00:35:52,475
[laurence]: provide people with visual simple language and
easy to understand demonicaswgoald platinum and
731
00:35:52,466 –> 00:35:53,156
[paul_tyler]: yeah
732
00:35:52,535 –> 00:35:52,836
[laurence]: so on
733
00:35:52,827 –> 00:35:53,256
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm
734
00:35:53,217 –> 00:35:55,683
[laurence]: to really help people when they’re making
those decisions
735
00:35:55,976 –> 00:35:56,436
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah the gold
736
00:35:56,317 –> 00:35:56,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah
737
00:35:56,476 –> 00:35:58,578
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: silver plate that’s you know those are
the star
738
00:35:58,556 –> 00:35:58,879
[paul_tyler]: oh
739
00:35:58,678 –> 00:35:59,579
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: reviews rights really
740
00:35:59,486 –> 00:35:59,707
[paul_tyler]: oh
741
00:35:59,679 –> 00:36:00,140
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at a glance
742
00:36:00,990 –> 00:36:01,231
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
743
00:36:01,261 –> 00:36:02,662
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: here’s the top middle and maybe
744
00:36:02,899 –> 00:36:03,039
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
745
00:36:03,142 –> 00:36:03,282
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: not
746
00:36:03,326 –> 00:36:03,694
[paul_tyler]: oh
747
00:36:03,382 –> 00:36:04,383
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so good
748
00:36:04,755 –> 00:36:05,159
[laurence]: exactly
749
00:36:05,216 –> 00:36:05,396
[paul_tyler]: yeah
750
00:36:05,700 –> 00:36:06,143
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
751
00:36:05,765 –> 00:36:06,105
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you
752
00:36:06,918 –> 00:36:06,938
[paul_tyler]: i
753
00:36:07,006 –> 00:36:07,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
754
00:36:07,058 –> 00:36:09,320
[paul_tyler]: love it bruno you know we’re close
to the top
755
00:36:09,318 –> 00:36:09,339
[branislav_nikolic]: a
756
00:36:09,360 –> 00:36:09,881
[paul_tyler]: of the hour i mean
757
00:36:09,937 –> 00:36:10,139
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
758
00:36:09,941 –> 00:36:11,622
[paul_tyler]: what are your what
759
00:36:11,557 –> 00:36:11,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
760
00:36:11,662 –> 00:36:11,863
[paul_tyler]: are your
761
00:36:11,860 –> 00:36:11,940
[bruno_caron]: ah
762
00:36:11,883 –> 00:36:13,464
[paul_tyler]: thoughts questions observations
763
00:36:14,324 –> 00:36:14,544
[bruno_caron]: well
764
00:36:14,846 –> 00:36:15,626
[paul_tyler]: oh
765
00:36:15,085 –> 00:36:16,307
[bruno_caron]: number one i think it’s
766
00:36:16,567 –> 00:36:16,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
767
00:36:17,469 –> 00:36:18,391
[bruno_caron]: it’s wonderful
768
00:36:18,307 –> 00:36:18,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
769
00:36:18,511 –> 00:36:23,138
[bruno_caron]: that we’re going back or at least
you guys are going back to some of
770
00:36:23,319 –> 00:36:28,828
[bruno_caron]: basic some of the textbook concepts i
mean we live in a world of headlines
771
00:36:29,189 –> 00:36:29,489
[bruno_caron]: and you
772
00:36:29,460 –> 00:36:29,763
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
773
00:36:29,509 –> 00:36:33,516
[bruno_caron]: know this is going on this is
going to just the fact that you’re framing
774
00:36:33,556 –> 00:36:38,524
[bruno_caron]: it that you’re actually putting it in
to a um some sort of framework some
775
00:36:38,584 –> 00:36:44,494
[bruno_caron]: sort of boundaries and sort of ratings
and in perspective with with the rest of
776
00:36:44,514 –> 00:36:49,242
[bruno_caron]: the economy i think that adds significant
value and i think that’s a that’s a
777
00:36:49,302 –> 00:36:52,386
[bruno_caron]: really that’s a very useful set for
for the industry
778
00:36:52,216 –> 00:36:52,237
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
779
00:36:54,138 –> 00:36:54,499
[paul_tyler]: ramsey
780
00:36:54,205 –> 00:36:54,512
[laurence]: thank you
781
00:36:55,057 –> 00:36:55,341
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
782
00:36:55,112 –> 00:36:55,377
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you
783
00:36:55,423 –> 00:36:56,126
[paul_tyler]: you want you want to bring
784
00:36:56,174 –> 00:36:56,317
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
785
00:36:56,187 –> 00:36:56,448
[paul_tyler]: us some
786
00:36:57,027 –> 00:37:02,195
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah so i wholeheartedly agree this is
this is an area that’s expanded
787
00:37:03,026 –> 00:37:03,312
[paul_tyler]: oh
788
00:37:03,187 –> 00:37:06,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: dramatically and again the choices expanded
789
00:37:06,656 –> 00:37:06,923
[paul_tyler]: oh
790
00:37:06,753 –> 00:37:10,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: much more quickly than the analytical framework
behind it and
791
00:37:10,925 –> 00:37:10,946
[paul_tyler]: m
792
00:37:11,200 –> 00:37:15,447
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know we live in a we
live in an environment where the elytics
793
00:37:15,390 –> 00:37:15,755
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
794
00:37:15,487 –> 00:37:18,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: are important they’re important for legal reasons
they’re important for
795
00:37:18,101 –> 00:37:18,202
[branislav_nikolic]: ah
796
00:37:18,432 –> 00:37:23,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: just helping people make the make the
right decision they’re important for helping people feel
797
00:37:23,921 –> 00:37:30,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: comfortable with their decisions and you know
as as i mentioned before i think it’s
798
00:37:30,592 –> 00:37:36,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: going to be useful certainly at the
consumer level at the advisor level i think
799
00:37:36,742 –> 00:37:42,249
[ramsey_d_smith]: very importantly at the institutional level where
you know the burdens of the burdens of
800
00:37:42,870 –> 00:37:46,513
[ramsey_d_smith]: proof if you will are very high
i think that this is this is this
801
00:37:46,573 –> 00:37:51,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: is going to be very important and
and it’s something that gets asked about a
802
00:37:51,407 –> 00:37:53,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of meetings when you’re if you’re
talking to
803
00:37:53,824 –> 00:37:54,454
[laurence]: oh
804
00:37:53,971 –> 00:37:57,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: larger insurance companies and this is something
that comes up a lot this isn’t this
805
00:37:57,537 –> 00:38:02,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: has been an unanswered question so i
think this is this is this is this
806
00:38:02,325 –> 00:38:03,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a great initiative
807
00:38:05,656 –> 00:38:07,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah lawrence you know you saw
808
00:38:08,107 –> 00:38:08,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
809
00:38:08,180 –> 00:38:08,841
[paul_tyler]: afa on
810
00:38:08,880 –> 00:38:09,750
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
811
00:38:09,602 –> 00:38:10,163
[paul_tyler]: that discussion
812
00:38:10,140 –> 00:38:10,321
[branislav_nikolic]: ye
813
00:38:10,243 –> 00:38:11,926
[paul_tyler]: panel how much
814
00:38:12,157 –> 00:38:12,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
815
00:38:12,780 –> 00:38:13,620
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
816
00:38:13,248 –> 00:38:14,491
[paul_tyler]: independent marketing organizations
817
00:38:14,122 –> 00:38:14,286
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
818
00:38:14,891 –> 00:38:18,577
[paul_tyler]: need this type of tool for their
marketers and for their agent so i think
819
00:38:18,617 –> 00:38:23,382
[paul_tyler]: the time couldn’t be better what’s the
best way for people to find out more
820
00:38:23,462 –> 00:38:26,024
[paul_tyler]: about your product or reach out to
you personally
821
00:38:27,034 –> 00:38:33,965
[laurence]: sure so our website has a lot
of greater information and that’s the index standard
822
00:38:34,025 –> 00:38:38,854
[laurence]: dot com and you can email us
at info at the index standard dot com
823
00:38:39,475 –> 00:38:44,062
[laurence]: i’m also pretty active on linked in
so brandon slab please follow us we also
824
00:38:44,122 –> 00:38:48,229
[laurence]: have linked in at the index standard
follow us and we kind of put some
825
00:38:48,429 –> 00:38:51,786
[laurence]: our insights there and of course our
newsletter as well with with you guys
826
00:38:52,516 –> 00:38:55,721
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well listen thanks so
much for joining us we
827
00:38:55,770 –> 00:38:56,011
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
828
00:38:55,781 –> 00:39:00,509
[paul_tyler]: want to thank all our listeners and
you know please give us feedback comments and
829
00:39:00,649 –> 00:39:02,412
[paul_tyler]: as long as they’re good bruno i
830
00:39:02,400 –> 00:39:02,701
[branislav_nikolic]: oh
831
00:39:02,492 –> 00:39:02,713
[paul_tyler]: actually
832
00:39:02,644 –> 00:39:02,726
[laurence]: ye
833
00:39:02,733 –> 00:39:04,676
[paul_tyler]: had somebody coming on my audio
834
00:39:04,661 –> 00:39:04,681
[branislav_nikolic]: m
835
00:39:04,796 –> 00:39:05,518
[paul_tyler]: editing skills and
836
00:39:06,319 –> 00:39:09,769
[bruno_caron]: uh
837
00:39:06,720 –> 00:39:06,981
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
838
00:39:07,601 –> 00:39:08,462
[paul_tyler]: a lack thereof
839
00:39:08,688 –> 00:39:08,889
[branislav_nikolic]: yah
840
00:39:09,244 –> 00:39:10,826
[paul_tyler]: so we we welcome all
841
00:39:10,710 –> 00:39:10,930
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah
842
00:39:11,067 –> 00:39:13,050
[paul_tyler]: and you know listen join us again
next
843
00:39:13,058 –> 00:39:13,078
[bruno_caron]: h
844
00:39:13,150 –> 00:39:16,316
[paul_tyler]: week for another episode of that annuity
845
00:39:16,419 –> 00:39:16,479
[branislav_nikolic]: ah
846
00:39:16,436 –> 00:39:17,242
[paul_tyler]: show thanks
847
00:39:20,767 –> 00:39:21,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
848
00:39:33,487 –> 00:39:37,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh oh
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