That Annuity Show
Our guest this week is Joe Jordan. Do I need to say more? But I will. In today’s episode, we discuss how the insurance industry has progressed from a focus on sales to a focus on planning. Joe explains why he thinks the next step will be to focus on helping create purpose for our clients in retirement.
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Episode Transcript
The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.
paul_tyler:
I, this is Paul Tyler and welcome to.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Another episode of that annuity show. Bruno. How.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Are you.
bruno_caron:
I’m very good. thank you. How are you.
paul_tyler:
Good? Tis great.
bruno_caron:
Good.
paul_tyler:
To have you here again.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Thanks. good morning. everyone.
paul_tyler:
Ramsey. We’ve got great show lined up with a great guest. Do you want to talk about? Do the intro.
ramsey_d_smith:
Sure, so, as always, very happy to be here and delighted to be joined by one of the lions of our industry. Joe Jordan, Joe is somebody that’s been in the industry a long time. He started on Wall Street, and then had a very long and illustrious career at Met Life, and now he travels the world talking about what it means to be in this business and facing customers, and really kind of tying together.
paul_tyler:
H.
ramsey_d_smith:
Both.
paul_tyler:
H.
ramsey_d_smith:
The qualitative and the qualitative. Sorry, the quality, the quantitative reasons that we do what we do, And so his message is an important one. He just was telling us how he variously was in in the Middle West, then in the Middle East, and then back in the Midwest again, all in the space of about five days. and that is the. that is the life of Joe Jordan, travelling the world and spreading the message. So Joe, very glad to have you on today.
paul_tyler:
Sorry.
joseph_jordan:
Thank.
paul_tyler:
Joe.
joseph_jordan:
You for having.
paul_tyler:
Middle East, was that Ohio.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
No, Is bay, rude man.
ramsey_d_smith:
Ye. yeah.
joseph_jordan:
I went from up state, New York, to Bay route, then to then to Kansas, City, then to then to New.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Jersey, and then to know Braska, So that was quite a trip.
ramsey_d_smith:
So where should we? Where should we get started here? Joe? tell us. tell us a little bit about. You know where you see where you see the state of the world. One of the things that you talk about a lot is how the role of the role of an advisor is is changing How it may be different in the next ten or twenty years than it’s been in the last ten or twenty years. What are some of the reasons for that and what some one thinks you’re like, the highlight and your your discussions.
joseph_jordan:
Well, you know, my background, as you have stated was, I was a life age and I ran insurance sales at Pain Webber, And.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Then there’s a lot of young.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
People out there.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
That is okay. it was. It’s a wire house on Wall Street, And then I went to Met Life and built their annuity business and had all retail product development. And then I got involved in the financial Anning organization, so I had a very good scope of what financial services look like. An. Frankly when I did it, as I did it, I wasn’t very pleased with it. I didn’t think we were. I don’t think we were as clients centric as other other industries were, and I thought there’d be consequences for that. So the tact I took originally was years ago Was I wrote a book, living a.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Life of significance. I don’t think that we talk enough in our culture About the impact that we have out there is the impact that we have on people and the importance of what we do. You know, it’s all about us, and he and I think that’s why you got De l and all those others, So I’m trying to. I was trying to change the culture and talking more about. You know the importance of as I said, what we do, and one of the things that I neglected. as I didn’t realize, So I wrote Life a significance for advisors. What I didn’t know was that’s what clients want.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
And you have a couple of things converging. You have this longevity, Sami. that is coming together. You know to me that to me that’s the biggest biggest issue the planet faces. I don’t think it’s global whelming. It’s the aging population of the world. The fact that you have a huge number of people who are older and are very small, and you have few babies being born. So you have small working age population with this massive retirement, then I think that’s the major issue And so if you think.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
About it, that’s what our business does. It addresses that major issue that that we have. So.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Again, I thought that was there and the other. The other thing that finally came together. And the problem with me is I’m pretty much a futurist, so I know what’s going to happen ten years from now.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
It’s just Wednesday that I have a problem, you know, so sometimes I’m.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Too far out in front of it, But one of the things that I’ve been I’ve been been talking about is this idea of purpose driven retirement planning, and I’ll tell you how it came to me. It started coming to me because I had one part of the formula for So for the other part of the formula started with Mitch Anthony, I don’t know a lot of you. I mean, he’s really a great visionary. Back in May.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Of eighteen, he was in Financial Advisor Magazine and he talked about emotion driven Planning will accelerate soon. he said, The old premises. You have enough money In the new premise is, are you managing.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Your money in a way that improves your life.
ramsey_d_smith:
My.
joseph_jordan:
So he was putting a priority on the way people live. And so that got my wheels turning. This was.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Back in eighteen, and then it’s the idea of purpose driven retirement planning in the basically states is that those that retire to something, so listen, those that retire to something are happier than those people who retire from something. So all of all of the impetus that’s put behind our programs and everything is talking about the money. It’s the left brain. It’s the dollars and sense, it’s not about what’s meaning and purpose that you’re going to have, And that was the thing I was trying to enboandstill do with advisers. To.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Say you know, you’re really virtually.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Critical to the people you deal with. not just now from a standpoint if someone dies early or dies too soon, But now it’s the idea of living too long and without your tutelage, How are they going to get through this thing with it with an age wave that we’ve never experienced before, and one of the things that I’ve seen was that people, some people think that retirement will be this one pleasurable experience.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
And you see all the commercials. You know. They’re walking on the beach. You know, looking at each other. I like you know. the real thing is, you know, after six months of that stuff, they’re ready to put a gun to the head. You know, they get bored stiff and it’s there you know. one of the astronits said. At best he said, If you think going to the moon is hard, try staying home so so think about that, you know, and.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
And and and and it gets there. And you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
M, oh.
joseph_jordan:
I shouldn’t be searching for pleasure because pleasure cannot be sustained beyond the activity sustaining it. but happiness and fulfilment are sustainable, and so I think that people in the future.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Are going to be looking for more than just the numbers. And so you know, I never come to these conclusions. The bell goes off and there it is. It’s always this journey. I think I’m You know, when you’re inspired, you know what? when you’re motivated, you drive it. When you’re inspired it drives you. So then then I ran across this thing from Mackenzey. It was a report.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Two thousand twenty, and Mackenzie, said Tenue, As advisers will gradually shed their role as investment managers and become more like integrated life wealth coaches. And so what I think is beginning to happen is where the business begins to mortis, a tighter relationship and more in line with the things about print, preparing people for the fact that you’re going to have a major change in your life, and at all ain’t goin to be pleasurable unless you’re doing something significant and worth while and have a purpose. So you know that was like a revelation to me. And and then what happened? as I spoke at Advisor Group and there I am this. Like three thousand reps in the Co, gets up and says, The thing I was.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Proudest of all of you during this pandemic, is.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
You operated more like life coaches than just numbers guys. So I really.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Think that that’s kind of the future. So if you just think about it okay and so I’m really talking about the future. It’s not something.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
You should drop everything today, but I think we have to start evolving.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
To that. you know, the way.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
I saw it, I got started seventy four everything wash sales and I do not deprecate sales. Don’t get me wrong. You got to learn how to sell. You got to learn the words. You got to do all of those things. They have to be there. Then we went to a planning pardon, But a planning paradime is very much numbers oriented.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
And it’s said it’s uh, you know, left brain kind of analytical thing, and people don’t connect with that. They don’t make decisions. you know, predicated on that and Paul, you, you saw it right, you know, there was great when we had.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
This thing and met life. It was the mature market institute. It was fabulous and got quoted all over the place. Of course we blew it up. You know, you know it works so well. We stopped doing it. You know.
paul_tyler:
Why not? Why.
joseph_jordan:
Why.
paul_tyler:
Not.
joseph_jordan:
Not.
paul_tyler:
Stop.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Let’s blow that one of you know. well, say a million box and you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Anyway. So.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
What what they did is? they measured, and I think it’s crucial that you know what clients are wanting where they’re going, and that’s why we have to go. So they were measuring the relative importance of four themes. The four themes were money, medicine, meaning and place. So what what they found out was that money is less important as people age. Now that meaning is most important no matter what age. And so you know that’s kind of leaving in that direction. So my advice to everyone on is you know people come up with these revelations and they’re not in the business itself, So now what the hell? O? I do? you know? Well, there’s a couple of books out there that I think everybody listening to this broadcast could get, and one of them.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yes.
joseph_jordan:
Is Mitch Anthony’s life.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Scented planet, And I’ll tell you why it provides all the great information on how to alter your practice to the new paradox. It asks all the questions. He’s got it all done. the work he’s got to twist away from what your risk tolerance. How the hell do you know your.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Risk tolerance is? Well, I don’t want to lose on your mother, you know, so I mean.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
It’s not the way people talk to each other, so he’s got all of these.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Things that are in there where you can start graduating the conversation towards what do you think you’re going to later in life? And so I urge everyone to get that he’s mapped it out for everybody. and it’s there Mitch Anthony, life centered planet. The other one is, I just bumped into this recently for clients to read Is by Garry crack, s, r, a k, and he.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Is a A in Ohio with the Guardian and he wrote a book like this title How.
paul_tyler:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
To retire and not die well.
paul_tyler:
Hey.
joseph_jordan:
As you.
paul_tyler:
By the way.
ramsey_d_smith:
M. Oh.
paul_tyler:
Joe, He was a.
joseph_jordan:
Yes.
paul_tyler:
Guest on our show.
joseph_jordan:
Oh Garry was.
paul_tyler:
We had.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Garry.
joseph_jordan:
Wow.
paul_tyler:
On.
joseph_jordan:
You guys. are.
paul_tyler:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
You know? I just got to throw you a compliment, Paul. I don’t know how the hell.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
You pull this thing together when I was first looking, I said What the hell you’re doing? I know a lot of people who listen to this thing and it’s a valuable service and you know it’s a great place for people.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
To just discuss the stuff.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Of what it is. So it’s there. I’m glad you got Garrion, because I love this book. You know, He’s a practitioner. Okay, So he’s He’s a guy who’s in the business. He’s been in it a long time, So he’s worked through.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
All of the people that he’s had clients for years, and he just discusses these stories and that that’s the major thing you know. this business is not is not a story of numbers. It’s the number of stories, because people can lock into that and understand what has happened. Don’t understand the number. You know. the denomoclature and all of the stuff like that. So what Garry talks about is the three peas and the three pies are. Passion is the first one and passion is what. So he’s preparing you. Now he’s preparing you and he’s talking. you know, to anybody who’s thinking about retiring is you should go by the three pies, and the first one is. Passion is what you do for you. Follow your bliss, Joseph Campbell’s famous quote, You know, Follow your bliss. And so that’s what he’s talking about, and he says, passion is what you do for yourself. This purpose is what you do for others. and I love that you know what I mean. This society is so wrapped up. It’s about mmmimimi all the time. and really it’s the idea of purpose is something that you do for someone else. I heard. I heard a great definition of purpose was at a million dollar round table. Sometimes you get hit with gems and they stick with you forever. and as a lady, and she said.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Purpose is not the thing you do listen. purpose is the thing that purpose is not the thing you do. It’s what happens inside of others. You going to do what you do? So think about that, it’s not what. when you’re in purpose, it’s the idea of helping others and we got to get back to that you know as a.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Society, and bind it together.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
And that’s your purpose to be there is to make that happened. he says, Plan is what people need.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
And that’s the thing that people don’t have. So before everyone was hitting you over the head saying you got a plan. You got a plan. You. For what.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Well, the fact of the matter.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Is you got to prepare yourself now for retirement, Because people go lose things when they retire, you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
And they don’t believe it. Okay, they lose a routine, they lose an identity.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
They lose relations, they lose purpose and they lose power. I used to be in zoo. Now know one knows who the hell I am. I’m Doctor Robin. It, remember me, you know, So it’s a major thing and people.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Don’t know that up front, you know. they just say I can’t wait till I play golf every day until I go nuts, so they need to really re invent themselves and look, I’ve seen it Okay. I’ve seen it. you know, I’m seventy one years old.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
So I know a lot of guys who retired now a while back, you know, and most of them are all picked off. You know, they talk about.
ramsey_d_smith:
Um.
joseph_jordan:
The job they didn’t get. You know. Seven.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Years go like it happened yesterday, you know, and they’re all moping around and you see I’m out there. Get off my lawn. you know, so.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
I think that’s something that really is.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
I think the next move. So.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Also it differentiator. all of our.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Products are commoditized. You know that they’re all commoditized. You’re walking to a financial.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Services saying it’s all the same. How do you make it different? How do you make it different.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
So I think these two books. So I’m not just leaving your flat to try to figure it out on your own. Get the two bloody books and start moving in that direction, because inexorably, it’s moving that.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
As far as you know, as far as I’m concerned, so I would. I would tell people to go out and and get those two books. And I think I think that’s a great differentiator for us. There’s no one else well suited you know to that together. By the way, In Garry’s book, he talks about people. You know. Some of the people who are most well off and most successful are the most miserable in retirement. And you know what happened. The other thing that exaccibates this, The other thing that exaccibates This is isolation. isolation kills. Social media was supposed to bring us together. It actually has separated us. Okay, Yale, It a study and found out the more people use Facebook, the worse they feel no one post the dog died, Or you know they had. They had an automobile action or whatever. It’s all this stuff that everyone knows. It’s half right, you know, and it is not there. There’s a new thing to now. it’s pomo. Fear of missing out. people now are putting their whole self esteem predicated on what some other people say and social media says. Well, you’ll never be alone. How to hell figure what you’re going to do with your life? If you’re not alone, you know, I mean it. It’s contrary, so it hasn’t brought people together. It’s isolated them and medicine has found out that isolation is the new smoking. It’s equivalent to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. People who feel isolated and don’t have meaning and purpose. What happens is is they follow and they die early, so that’s an issue. So to me, okay, this is a new thing. Financial Advisers to grab that role because no one could take it away from and no one is going to say so, Let.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Your fee. How much is? Of course you worked.
bruno_caron:
Okay.
joseph_jordan:
That. I’ll find that you know you didn’t perform so well this quarter. You know all. That’s so again. I don’t say, re invent yourself overnight. Get the books start. Go in that direction and that’s why I’m stoked. So I always believed in the idea of living a significant life. I just left clan. It’s out and meaning and purpose is important and I think we need to go somewhat in that direction.
bruno_caron:
Well, it’s I find it amazing that you know everything you started.
joseph_jordan:
A.
bruno_caron:
Off with. You know the demographic environment, demography, and people living longer, and having that new generation impacts not only the financial situation of every single individual but society. He’s and I’m not just saying, You know, in this in the Us. in in the Middle East, Europe everywhere, it is just uh. everything is. It is changing according to this to this new norm.
joseph_jordan:
Ah.
bruno_caron:
So how you know? what advice do you have for this younger generation of you know advisors who are coming in and are not necessarily you know. Here. Re definitely hearing the words of wisdom of the you know, the older generation.
joseph_jordan:
Okay, right.
bruno_caron:
But it’s a new environment. There’s new challenges both societal and financial were. obviously, I think the good place begin would be those. those two books are three if I include yours, But where else? and what else you have in mind there in order to have a a good fulfilled career for the young agents.
joseph_jordan:
I think this is it is that with this demographics is the future that can’t be changed. Okay, Japan is going to lose half its population by the end of the century and they can’t change it. And so that’s the stuff that’s going on. So those are the. Those are. That’s going to be the main driver. Think, look at China, this the first time that Pope, as down is going to fall like a rock. And you know the you know, Do you know that November of last year the eight billionth person was born, And you know what the Un said? It’s another carbon generating curse. They’re talking about him being. for Christ’s sake.
bruno_caron:
Uh.
joseph_jordan:
All of human history has been predicated on the idea of innovation overcoming.
bruno_caron:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Obstacles. They had, you know.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
I’ll get back to your question again, but I’m just trying to gild the lily Are okay, The know that in the eighteen nineties there was a meeting of all of the people, high, high officials of different cities from all over the world, and they came to New York. You know what? that big problem was, horseman. It was all over the place, you know, and they’re trying to figure out how to clean it up. Well, what happened? We invented cars and that went away, and that created other problems. So we always create problems, and then we innovate and make it happen. In more people we have the better off we are. We’re not going to have that luxury going forward. So what that means and you’re going to live longer than you’re may not live healthily longer, so we’ve got to need someone like in a financial advice, so to be there, to be certain that you, as an individual, meaning a client right, will be able to weather that storm and do it so that I just think generates the importance of what we do. So I’m not saying that plannings out. No planning was the evolution from sales that used to be sales that go in. Have a couple of you know the words, and and then you buy the thing you know which you didn’t know. It was in context to other stuff, and people are saying. So that was the evolute and I saw it when, when I, when I, when I went to Pain Webber from home life, they wanted to sell insurance. not because of client need, they wanted to diversify their revenue. Strain. The fact of the matter, his clients want to deal with just one type one person. So I think the idea, and still, even though the demographics of aging is new, people do die. everyone dies. I did the research. I found it out, and sometimes people die young. Okay, so that has to be part of the plan, But that’s not the only product than you have to prepare for the future, and Nick Murray says Yo. yo. You’re on your own, so you’re going to see more and more of that because governments cannot keep up if they have the small working base. They’re not going to have the tax base to be able to do this. People are gonna have to be able to do on an individual basis, so I think this is the most important profession that someone can do because of the fact that you can prepare people and then make certain that they.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Have independence and dignity when they get older, and also protection. You know, they protect their families. It’s there and so all of the products have to be used.
ramsey_d_smith:
So I have. I have a question about how we get there so obviously.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
ramsey_d_smith:
There’s an evolution right, so it may be in a few things. It may mean that that the people wait bringing to this industry are different than the ones we had in the past. Um, so I’m curious what your thoughts are about about that? Like, what is the you know? are we? Does this mean that we’re going to be looking for different person alities and different skill sets in in this business going forward. And then I have a. I have a follow or question about some organizations you mentioned in a recent article.
joseph_jordan:
It’s an interesting. It’s an interesting comment. I don’t know if we need different people. I don’t know that.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Um, you know, people still have to survive to a people still have to.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Survive through rejection.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
And.
ramsey_d_smith:
Hm.
joseph_jordan:
So that’s My thought was inspiring people to see the importance.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Of what you do means that you got your meaning and purpose you could overcome that I don’t. I don’t know so much.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
If we need the types of people. I think we perhaps need a better position of what our business is. I think we need to bring in the fact of the stories of the impact we can have, and I know that sometimes people you know they’re starting out, You know that’s hard to really grasp at what have you? But I think we have to constantly repeat the importance of what we do because Congress doesn’t think we do it. The senator from Massachusetts doesn’t think we do it. Okay. They think we’re all a bunch hampson at, you know, and that’s that’s a big risk because you.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Know what will happen is as they can legislate this thing so so much that.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
It’s a question of control. so I mean, I have to think some more about that. I’m glad you brought it up. I don’t know that we need different types of people. I think we need different positionings in terms of what we do, and I also think we have to get ourselves off of the product bias. You know, we all seem to have an orientation And really it’s the plan that comes out. What. I, what I also think is we have to get more involved with story telling.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Just fact driven type of approaches. And so I think that’s another fundamental change that we need to do. I don’t know that we need different people, but you know.
bruno_caron:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Ramsey. I’m glad you brought that up because you got my wheels turn and I got to think about that.
ramsey_d_smith:
So one of the things that you mentioned in this this article that I thought was really interesting is you talked about some organizations that you speak to fraternal organizations, and.
joseph_jordan:
M.
ramsey_d_smith:
How they have a very different relationship there with the customers. And I thought about it. We’re trying to move this needle and change and change the process. It takes a lot doing it one client and one agent at a time. But if you can affiliate with organization that’ve already cracked this code, there’s something there, so tell us about what you see in fraternal organizations that feels different than what you see in the broader, the broader sort of world here.
joseph_jordan:
Well, I work.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
With some of them and you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
Hm.
joseph_jordan:
Like nights at Columbus, you know, and.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
A thriving.
ramsey_d_smith:
No.
joseph_jordan:
And there’s a group called G. B. That’s There’s hundreds of these things are all over the place and you get underneath their. So they have insurance products. He sell investments. You know that’s that’s part of their own. They have all of these other programs that you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
So for example, and I’m talking about the idea of.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Health having.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Meaning and purpose. you know.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
The.
ramsey_d_smith:
Uh.
joseph_jordan:
Nights at Columbus store.
ramsey_d_smith:
H.
joseph_jordan:
You know, Have these different programs you know, Giving coach to kids. They already have built in a number of programs that they have. It also helps people, so it’s like a one stop shop. Oh, not that everybody would gravitate towards the things they do, but they’re there. there they exist. There’s a group out there called G B U. and they have this thing that. if you go to a righteous charitable organization, they match your contribution up to a certain amount, so think about that. Okay, So you give two thousand dollars to the soup kitchen Okay in Minnesota, and making it up they match it so man doesn’t. So there’s a motivation there for someone to start doing something that’s outside of themselves. I mean that’s that’s that’s That’s really the essence of what a human being is is the idea of your ability to impact others. And and so they do that. And and I don’t think they’ve grasped how important that is. And perhaps Ramsey, as you’re saying, that might be other things that other organizations might start to do, is to come up with some of these is that would push people towards the idea of being in a given mode. I, either the matching and what it is? So I think that the fraternal organizations have got built them. I don’t. I don’t think they. really. It’s how important that is, and I would hate to see them miss the mark. And perhaps in terms of your question, not so much different people, but may be different, different, um different offerings that, but some of.
ramsey_d_smith:
Ah.
joseph_jordan:
The companies would have.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
So I want to.
ramsey_d_smith:
Thank you.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Thinks, Um, interesting, Ramsey about needing different.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
People or different profile of agent. I want to talk a little bit about kind of what that tool or that work sheet might look like not to skirt around reading the books you recommend. But can you help the listeners think a little bit about how they would re frame the question? So you talked about. You know, we don’t want to ask about the risk tolerant, but don’t want to ask about. at least not lead way or start with. You know we don’t want to ask about how much money you need in retirement. What how do those.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Questions sound differently? Like If we’re looking to drive people to start thinking about their passion or their purpose, can.
joseph_jordan:
Well.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
We.
joseph_jordan:
I.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Re.
joseph_jordan:
Think.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Frame.
joseph_jordan:
You do have to ask people.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Give some examples of some of those questions, or what that tool or work sheet might look like.
joseph_jordan:
When you.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
To walk.
joseph_jordan:
Retire.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Them though.
joseph_jordan:
What.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
The discussion.
joseph_jordan:
Are you going to do? How are.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Hm.
joseph_jordan:
You going to spend your time? I’m going to play golf when I would advise you that that might not be the most you’re going to do because you can get really bored. you know. I mean, you been doing this that. and the other thing, What interest do you have? And what is it you really like doing and people, probably people have never really asked that question. You know, What is it.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Hm.
joseph_jordan:
You really enjoy doing and what is it you absolutely hate doing to make an exploration of that type of stuff? I mean, I think that’s part of the question you see, Because then I think that people get more engaged than that. You know. I really hate writing the notes and doing all of what else do you hate? You know. So I think that really brings people closer together. They have to find out what is it that they really enjoy doing And what is it they don’t? What is it? What is it? They absolut we love. And what is it? They absolutely hate and they should probably not do much of what they hate and do what they what they love doing. But most people haven’t explored that on a personal basis. they might have run a bit this and found out how that ran. But and they probably have some idea of what they’d like to do and what they don’t like to do. Why not segment that out? What’s the thing that really gives you? You know meaning and purpose, And so people haven’t asked that question of themselves. And so I think.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Yes.
joseph_jordan:
That those are the types of questions and those.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Are laced in. Certainly in Garry’s book, and I think they’re also in Mitchesbook To against it. See what it does it brings. That brings the relationship a little bit close. You know what I mean, and I think you have.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
M.
joseph_jordan:
A competitive edge because you’ve asked things that probably others haven’t And.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Hm.
paul_tyler:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
M, and they don’t understand the financial stuff. In the end of the day, they don’t understand the technothterminologies that we come out with, and they like it to go up. They don’t like it when it goes down, and if it stays the same, they’re not as happy. But you know it’s really the idea. And that was Mitch Anthony’s first quote. Was They want to say how they’re gonna improve their lives, So they haven’t spent the time in the episode of finding out what it is. They really want to do what they really hate doing and get rid of that and do the stuff that they want to do. And so that’s getting back to the fraternal organization. You know, you know, Did you notice if I’m a fraternal guy? right, I’m going to. we have this thing coach for kids, and whatever ye, I should, you know, And then they’re actually doing stuff for others and they have a meaning. Have a place to go and we have it. so I think I think that’s where it starts out, and I think those are the types of questions that people would be asking.
paul_tyler:
Yeah, Joe. it almost feels. In some ways, questions, kind of cheapens it. It’s more. conversation may be a very long conversation. Now, I think you mentioned first word about sales than we’re about plans. Now we’re about a dialogue. that that may change over time When Garry was on here Was interesting. He talked about. as you remember, that conversation almost sounded like he kind of stumbled on to this.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
After these conversations After due Joe the financial plan. So.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
You came to me and said, Can I do this? Okay? great, Ere’s your plan, But what else.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Do you want to do? It was almost like an ad on. You Think I could actually start with that conversation.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Or you know, do I? Is that something that I can only do after a longer relay ship with a person.
joseph_jordan:
My sense is you could start it out like that again. It’s like being a life health of a life wealth coach, you know. And and so yeah, that’s what happened. All of the people who really take off do this thing bump into it And it’s not. That’s the point. It’s not part of the training. It’s not part of the direction you know, and it’s not perfected yet. but, but I think you can start off with those conversations because they be a lot more engaging. I think so you know. the other thing that’s important because you, you hit on an important point, right, And it’s the idea of one of the reasons I wrote Life is significant. I read a M. one of those surveys, gallop, gallop, and I looked at the look at Two Thousand Flow, looked at the ethics and believability of different professions.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
And the only ones that were above us below us. Excuse me, we’re car salesman and Congress, And you know what the number one was? I can get two thousand twelve.
paul_tyler:
No idea.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Nurses.
paul_tyler:
Interesting.
joseph_jordan:
Isis.
paul_tyler:
Two thousand.
joseph_jordan:
Was the number.
paul_tyler:
Twelve.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
M.
joseph_jordan:
One profession that’s before the.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Now.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Ovid, right, So you can imagine where it is now. All of the other ones that were just below it.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
All service organizations, service organizations operate on two foundations. Okay, humility.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Maturity, humble people don’t think necessarily, humble people don’t necessarily think less.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Of themselves. They just think of themselves. S if your people aren’t necessarily all, if they see things from another person’s perspective, So it’s that it’s that client engagement now. Do I have it perfected now? No, But as you saw, Garry just bumped into it. Garry could.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Probably put it in front. I think Mitch Anthony is one who has really seen it, You know for there. And and they’re trying to enrich people’s lives, and you can’t commoditize that. So that’s some of the cultural things that I think there. I mean, they’re kind.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Of pioneers, and I’m I’m exposing it because again you cannot continue a regulatory point of view of the way people you have to overcome so many things that people have that attitude towards your profession and what you do. I think that’s what we have to overcome, And that’s where I thought a.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Vanguard could be.
bruno_caron:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
You know, the fraternal organizations, but I think they’re overwhelmed with trying to be the other way, and I think they have the magic in their back yard. I don’t think they.
paul_tyler:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
All understand it.
paul_tyler:
Well, listen ere at the near the top of our time. you know Bruma. Do you have like last question or thought for for Joe.
bruno_caron:
Sure. last question and I think that you know you’ve been very vocal on on the income part that’s required in retirement. You know that’s through annuities through social security, delaying it as much as.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
bruno_caron:
You can. All of that concept about income is really at the forefront relative to obviously, the assets or wealth, or however you want to, you.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
bruno_caron:
Want to describe it. Where do you see or how do you see the income part of retirement as an opportunity for all the professionals and advisors in.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
bruno_caron:
The financial, the financial services space.
joseph_jordan:
Well, I think it’s essential. you know, we’re in an accumulation paradime, And that’s what drove That sounds like demographics. To me, Baby boom was the.
bruno_caron:
Uh.
joseph_jordan:
Biggest lug When you’re thirty.
bruno_caron:
Uh.
joseph_jordan:
Three years old. You want to talk about self security? I don’t think so.
bruno_caron:
Um.
joseph_jordan:
You know, and then well, you know, Paul. You saw this right when we started the legislative birth dates. everyone’s saying delay so security. What you’re crazy? it’s going away. Take it now. no one had that mind set. so once again and it’s demographics, in terms of the baby boom.
bruno_caron:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Is the pick through the Python right, getting to the point where all of a sudden it’s there needs and everything changes So you know an accumulate on phase is subsilively different from an income stage. You know you don’t have much stuff to come back towards. You have to have some form of guaranteed income. There’s a new thing called mortality credits, which a lot of financial you know, the brokers and the stock brokers and stuff have difficulty dealing with because it’s not a stock and bond is not an interest rate. You know, it’s the idea is measuring human life and the ability to provide you with a guaranteed income for life. And as I said, the whole idea of how much money you have dictates your wealth is the recent phenomena, you know, Jane Austin Rights. He wrote all of those books, the early eighteen hundreds, you know, and was Pride and prejudice you know. Noticed the way she described Mer Darcy, who was the rich guy? She said, she didn’t say At a million pounds, she said, I got ten thousand a year. Historical perspective of wealth has always been on the place.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
The reliability of the income. That’s the new R. L. right. it’s not R. Rather not return on investment of reliability income. So it’s all of these alien tools that are not so much known in the accumulation parade coming there, being driven by what ohdemographics, so demographics again is the future that cannot be changed. We now have to regulate its more towards the idea of the income side and all of the new, the new risks that that brings with it you know, the the what quality segments return sequence of return stuff. Look, in the old days, you.
bruno_caron:
Right.
joseph_jordan:
Retired at sixty five. You took a boat to Ireland. You came back and your debt at sixty eight. Okay, okay, but.
bruno_caron:
Uh.
joseph_jordan:
Now your living.
paul_tyler:
Ye.
joseph_jordan:
To eighty. So the fact of the matter is is that.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
You got to put something together to make that happen. so the product lines change and having access to a buffer asset that you can set money aside. Or maybe you use a reverse mortgage, or maybe you use a loan, a life insurance policy, So everything you know starts to change And that’s that’s an influence and most people are more interested on making certain that they have a stable retirement income than increasing their wealth. And that’s what the majority of people are saying So so and that’s very. it’s very hard. change a look, Paul, you know this right back in night, Two thousand, For who is the only person out there saying delay. So security was made, You know because I was trying to get people to begin thinking about the idea of using annuities to have a guaranteed lifetime income as a base. And and so you know, it takes a long time. so in two thousand for as a voice in the wilderness. Now you know it’s It’s all over the place. So.
paul_tyler:
Well, and it’s only I think the deal Joe is only going to get better because you know we’ve.
joseph_jordan:
Yet.
paul_tyler:
Been talking to people who’ve said. It won’t be uncommon for people to live to hundred and five. You know, there’s a scientist or a couple of group of scientists who said the first person to live to a hundred and fifty has already been born.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
About that to you. So what do you tink? Should we? should we change some of our market materials and web pages.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely kind of re framing how we think about retirement. For sure. I’m still sort of stuck on this idea of isolation. you know, being the new, the new chronic issue.
joseph_jordan:
It’s.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Or.
joseph_jordan:
Here.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
The new.
joseph_jordan:
And.
paul_tyler:
Ifteen.
joseph_jordan:
People.
paul_tyler:
Packs.
joseph_jordan:
People don’t.
paul_tyler:
Fifteen.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Well.
joseph_jordan:
Reconat.
paul_tyler:
Packs of cigarettes.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Yeah, well.
joseph_jordan:
Ah.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
And and I guess I think about all ages and how we reacted to quarantine right for the.
joseph_jordan:
Right.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Twelve months or so where we were all feeling very isolated. So there’s a proof point right there, Just thinking through the solutions for the aging population and the seniors, because I’ve seen it first hand, Isolation is literally.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
A killer, So.
joseph_jordan:
Got.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
You can.
joseph_jordan:
It.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Have Ll the money. All the money in the.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
World right, do all the.
joseph_jordan:
Right.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Right things you think through. You’re passing your purpose, But at some point if your day to day is just you on the that’s that’s not very fulfilling. So.
paul_tyler:
Ramsey.
joseph_jordan:
My point is is I want to provide.
paul_tyler:
Yeah.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
A broader context to what our stuff is, and it’s built around.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Hm.
ramsey_d_smith:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
The life and how things have changed. And and you know, most people who are in the middle of the thing don’t see the forest from the trees, and and isolations. And so that’s what another thing that benefits are. But I’m not celebrating. Million people died, but people really want to sit down and talk to somebody. Everybody thought computers would do this thing like that, You know you. Just, it’s just the way humans are, so I think the future is really bright.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Again. I started.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Talking to two thousand Four about delaying social security. How long did that.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Take right? It took like fifteen years before. Now Every you know, it’s all there, so I think it’s another fifteen years with this stuff. I’m talking about a start and a start is to be talking more about what are people going to do when they retire And then again, my message to Froternals is you guys got one stop shop, So you know, jump on it. And and perhaps I think some of the offerings change over time.
paul_tyler:
Ramsey.
ramsey_d_smith:
So just a couple quick things and one I was going to say that, I think that this notion.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
ramsey_d_smith:
Of a more of a service services, I should say, orientation in our business, I think is good. I think it’s it translates into better customer experience. I think it’s actually, I think it’s an economic opporty, ity, and I also think it’s great for risk management. I actually think that we treat services and our business s expenses, when in fact there are assets and valuable tools. I think I think we can actually have an entire additional show about that, So Joe, maybe we’ll talk about that the next.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
ramsey_d_smith:
Time. But one thing that I wanted that to make sure we did not miss before we go is is taking us through the Ben Franklin close. I thought that was great.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
ramsey_d_smith:
That was at the tail end of your tail end of your article. I thought that was a very simple way to help people think about what the value propositi is of what we, what we all in this industry do.
joseph_jordan:
Ah, so so that was? That was the You put the premium down, and then you list of benefits That would.
ramsey_d_smith:
Exactly.
joseph_jordan:
Okay right.
ramsey_d_smith:
Make a tea, But the premium in one.
joseph_jordan:
Right.
ramsey_d_smith:
On one side and on the other side, you list all the benefits.
joseph_jordan:
Right.
ramsey_d_smith:
And then there was there was a punch.
joseph_jordan:
Sure.
ramsey_d_smith:
Line.
paul_tyler:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
So what it simply is is you know you do the brand Franklin crows. You do a t line and then look down in the middle and then then the first one says your meaning, your obligation, and then on the aside you put ours. So your list. the print. I’m gonna make this up. You know, you give someone.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
You give us.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Thousand dollars a year, and or let’s say ten thousand dollars a year, and what we’ll do is we’ll put a step aside a million dollars at it. For some reason you died, your family would get it, and then the other thing we do is we guarantee that if for some reason you got sick and disabled that premium.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
Of ten thousand dols, it would continue to pay, and it would, the program would continue to build, and you’d have that, Kay, the other, the other, The other thing is that if you got sick or disabled as a way of taking some of those.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Some of the money out of the policy and being able to provide you with with with with benefit, you know that happens, and you know the living benefits. Now See that’s like.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
A new thing that popped up. You know, I have a whole thing on living benefits and I was a woman and I’ll never forget man. You talk about it and you see, she’s a young woman and she’s talking about. she. She lives with the parents, but she’s the sole support of the parents and she has a kid and she’s a single mom. She got attacked in a garage and they set up arty on fire. Okay, they really screwed her up and she, she had up a policy and she thought ahead of time and she was able to get four thousand.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Dollars out of it to pay all those medical expenses to keep the family in tact o smoke. So that’s that’s like some of the new services you know that comes to that. So you know we could do that and we also can lend you money when you need it at a very low interest rate and on a tax free base. And so, if you’re invested in the stock market, might use it as a buffer asset when the stock market goes down, so that you know so. O. I list all of these different benefits that it has, And then I said.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
However, so so so one has as ten thousand, and the other has like six or seven or eight or nine of them. However, if you don’t do, don’t do your obligation. You put an x on it, you go over to R, and you put, or it’s your obligation to fulfill all these things, So I think that puts it into perspective. You know, you know the benefits are there, but again, I think the idea of living benefits is another kind of service orientation type thing that’s starting to happen, but it’s got. I think the offerings have to go beyond just products. We have other stuff, but I think you’re on to something, Ramsey.
paul_tyler:
Yeah, well, Joe. thanks.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
I think we do your Ben Franklin to what we get for Joe.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
What you cost and what you deliver.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Uh.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Joe. It’s.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
I don’t.
joseph_jordan:
Uh.
paul_tyler:
Want to be on my own.
joseph_jordan:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
We do not want to be in our own here. so hey, listen.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
Thanks so much, Joe. We’re gonna have you.
bruno_caron:
M.
paul_tyler:
Back. Okay, we’ll have you.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Back in a couple of months. We think this.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
Is great. We’ll put the links to your books.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
And.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Your sight. O people, stay in touch with you and listen. Just thanks for all you’re doing. Really.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
Appreciate.
ramsey_d_smith:
Ah.
paul_tyler:
It.
joseph_jordan:
Thanks. I really.
paul_tyler:
And Bruno.
bruno_caron:
Thank you.
joseph_jordan:
I really enjoyed. This is.
ramsey_d_smith:
Thanks.
joseph_jordan:
As.
ramsey_d_smith:
Joe.
joseph_jordan:
A good. It’s a good venue. It’s a good place because I know a lot of people.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Oh.
joseph_jordan:
You come to see this And why not to.
bruno_caron:
Yeah.
joseph_jordan:
Tell people how many people view your stuff.
paul_tyler:
We ad. Let’s see. I think.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
I do a hundred thousand people close to.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
A.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
Downloadthe show since we started. So.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
Joe, you listen. If we. if we changed a few lives or changed.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
Let me put it away. changed a few.
ramsey_d_smith:
M.
paul_tyler:
Converts Asians with advisors to change and address the needs you just describe to that woman. That’s that’s success. So.
joseph_jordan:
Better than me standing on a corner talking like.
paul_tyler:
Ah.
joseph_jordan:
Me in.
paul_tyler:
All.
bruno_caron:
M.
joseph_jordan:
Jail.
paul_tyler:
Right.
bruno_caron:
Hm.
paul_tyler:
Artis.
bruno_caron:
Hm.
ramsey_d_smith:
Right.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Right.
paul_tyler:
Thanks and listen.
tisa_rabun_marshall:
Hm.
bruno_caron:
Oh.
ramsey_d_smith:
Oh.
paul_tyler:
Give us feedback. Tell us. Tell us who you like to see on this show and listen.
joseph_jordan:
Yeah.
paul_tyler:
Join us again next week. For another.
joseph_jordan:
You know, just keep me abreast If you get some feedback. you know.
paul_tyler:
Ye will. we will. we will. So.
joseph_jordan:
Okay.
paul_tyler:
Hey, listen, join us next time and we’ll we’ll have another great episode for you, Thanks.
joseph_jordan:
Thank you.
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