2022

The Most Important Financial Goal in Retirement Isn’t What You Think

March 22, 2022 2022, Media, Moshe Milevsky No comments

Even more important than not running out of money in retirement is another goal: not having to make crucial financial decisions as you age.

“You want those to be on automatic pilot,” argues Moshe Milevsky, finance professor at York University in Toronto, and a member of the graduate faculty of mathematics and statistics, in an interview with ThinkAdvisor.

Further, he visualizes non-financial experts such as gerontologists, social workers and psychologists joining RIAs in the retirement conversation to help super-affluent clients plan for potential gerontologic health issues and other needs of the aged.

As for reducing, if not eliminating, financial decisions as one becomes older, guaranteed income products — aka annuities — fit the bill, Milevsky says.

In fact, annuities “must be a central component of the retirement portfolio.

“Stocks and bonds alone will never get you through the entire life cycle. You should include annuities to supplement them,” maintains the annuity expert.

In the interview, the professor recalls that in his college and early grad-student years, the “scientific philosophy” was that retirement income planning was the “nastiest” problem in modern finance, according to a branch of math related to engineering.

But “math will never solve retirement planning.” There’s much more to having a “satisfying, healthy and fulfilling retirement than ‘solving it,’” he contends.

Milevsky’s teaching focuses on wealth management, investments, insurance, pensions and retirement planning. He is also managing director of the consulting firm PiLECo.

He has published 15 books and more than 60 peer-reviewed scholarly papers, and given 1,000-plus keynote speeches and seminars.

“Longevity Insurance for a Biological Age” (2019) is one of his latest books.

ThinkAdvisor recently held a phone interview with Milevsky, speaking from Toronto, and a follow-up email exchange.

He praises comprehensive financial planning but cautions that, with the breadth of critical aspects, it “can’t be done in an elevator.”

Here are highlights of our interview:

THINKADVISOR: What’s a critical key to retirement planning?

MOSHE MILEVSKY: As you get older, you should make fewer financial decisions. You want those to be on automatic pilot. This goal is even more important than not running out of money in retirement.

I’m in my early 50s chronologically, and I really enjoy the investment and portfolio construction process. I enjoy optimization. I hope to be doing all that a decade from now.

But in two decades, at 70, I’m not so sure. At 80, I’m not certain I’ll have the financial or technical acumen to deal with whatever investment vehicle will be around then.

And at 90, I won’t want to make these decisions.

I can assure you that if I ever reach 95, there’s no way I plan to log on to Vanguard or Fidelity anymore or check P/E ratios or payout rates.

If I’m alive then, I’ll be happy with a decent bowel movement!

So, as I age, I want to make fewer financial decisions. I want to set my finances on automatic pilot at retirement and live off the cash flow.

What’s a good product to use?

That’s one of the benefits of annuities. You just cash the check. No decisions. No asset allocation. No optimization.

I think that annuities — described these days as guaranteed income products — must be a central component of the retirement portfolio. It’s important in the later decumulation phase, quite obviously.

Even in the accumulation phase, you have to start considering how annuities will be incorporated because stocks and bonds alone will never get you through the entire life cycle.

You should include annuities in the retirement income portfolio to supplement stocks and bonds.

See the article on ThinkAdvisor: https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2022/03/18/milevsky-not-going-broke-isnt-the-most-important-financial-goal-in-retirement/

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Episode 139: What’s Different This Time When Saving For Retirement With Byron Boston

March 17, 2022 2022, Byron Boston, Podcast, Retirement No comments

Yes, markets do run in repeating cycles. However, the best traders ask themselves, “What’s different this time?” Byron Boston, CEO of Dynex Capital explains that this is the very first rule his firm uses when plotting how to navigate their portfolio through changing times. However, two large exogenous events – the pandemic & now a war – are creating some uncertainty for baby boomers hoping to turn assets into income.

Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

https://www.dynexcapital.com/about-us/leadership-team/default.aspx

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Transcript

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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

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[Paul Tyler]: how are you

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[Ramsey Smith]: fantastic

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[Paul Tyler]: hey a good um we have a great guest in fact it was a really good show it was one i

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[Paul Tyler]: missed when i was on vacation now mark is out so we’re tag team in this show

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[Paul Tyler]: ramsey do you wanna do the intro

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[Ramsey Smith]: absolutely so we’re very lucky today to be rejoined by byron boston who is the ceo

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[Ramsey Smith]: of Dynex a mortgage real estate investment trust and the reason that we wanted to

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[Ramsey Smith]: have him back on the show and the reason it’s so timely is byron

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[Ramsey Smith]: is a student of economic history

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[Ramsey Smith]: and he has really an extraordinary view on sort of macroeconomics

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[Ramsey Smith]: and and geopolitical issues which of course we you know really at the center of

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[Ramsey Smith]: everything that we need to worry about

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[Ramsey Smith]: as an economy and it’s not just it’s not just big investors need to focus on it we

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[Ramsey Smith]: as individual americans financial advisors all need to have context and so we’re

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[Ramsey Smith]: we’re delighted to have delighted to have byron back and one of the things that i

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[Ramsey Smith]: always say about baring that i think is many things that are interesting is that

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[Ramsey Smith]: fundamentally when he when he talks about how he viewed the world he starts with

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know four four words i am a lender and i think that’s something that people

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[Ramsey Smith]: not necessarily understand about what it means to be a mortgage reit but he’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: fundamentally a lender and and that that lens i think brings a very interesting

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[Ramsey Smith]: perspective on the way it looks at the world so with that

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: welcome back byron we’re delighted to have you tell us a little bit about tell a

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[Ramsey Smith]: little bit about yourself and your journey and what brought you to

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[Ramsey Smith]: and what dyne does very quickly no

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[Byron Boston]: thank you sure sure ramsey paul thank you so much for having me and um that’s a

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[Byron Boston]: fantastic introduction

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[Byron Boston]: to i am very much so a student of history

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[Byron Boston]: i am a an economics ner a very student of economics and i found my way to that

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[Byron Boston]: topic in college and i’m very happy that i did i am an economics major from

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[Byron Boston]: dartmouth college

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[Byron Boston]: and i found my way there senior year it was not my original major i had to switch

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[Byron Boston]: my major my last year in school and the reason that’s important and so many

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[Byron Boston]: students are confused in terms of their majors i switched that major because

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[Byron Boston]: that’s what i was interested in i had taken a path down the the wrong direction

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[Byron Boston]: mainly because of influence of of others and and i’m so happy that at some point i

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[Byron Boston]: said you know what i love economics i want to switch my major the head of the

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[Byron Boston]: department helped me switch my major and here i am sixty three years old that had

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[Byron Boston]: to be and at this point it was forty two years ago and um forty yeah forty two

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[Byron Boston]: years ago when i made that decision and i am so happy i did because i i really am

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[Byron Boston]: an economics ner and so in this job at dynex capital

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[Byron Boston]: this is a core

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[Byron Boston]: knowledge skill set that i lean upon and how we make our decision so i am a lender

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[Byron Boston]: i came out of dartmouth college after studying economics i came right to the wall

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[Byron Boston]: street world and i was trained in one of the better corporate lending programs at

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[Byron Boston]: chemical bank spent three years as a lender i went back to business school and

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[Byron Boston]: studied finna county came back to wall street as a mortgage backed securities

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[Byron Boston]: trader i was fortunate it was before larry fing started black black rock that one

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[Byron Boston]: of the best he ran one of the best mortgage back securities trading desks on wall

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[Byron Boston]: street and i was allowed to join that group and so i believe i trained

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[Byron Boston]: in both both the chemical bank and at first boston by some of the best in lending

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[Byron Boston]: and in uh investing and in trading and the asset class and trading that i focused

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[Byron Boston]: on was mortgage backed securities

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[Byron Boston]: and so i started that journey as a trader in eighty six eleven years on the what i

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[Byron Boston]: would call the south side of wall street and i flipped over to the b side where i

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[Byron Boston]: was at freddie mac for seven years where i further hone my skill and knowledge of

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[Byron Boston]: lending money against real estate um and in two thousand four i started my first

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[Byron Boston]: company it was called sunset financial was a mortgage reit took it public i got a

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[Byron Boston]: takeover bid in two thousand six we sold the company happily sold the company the

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[Byron Boston]: company was successful and one of the the most important things i can tell you

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[Byron Boston]: about my career

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[Paul Tyler]: no

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[Byron Boston]: is that a chunk of the investors of my first company i started asked me to come to

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[Byron Boston]: dine capital and help them rebuild this

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[Ramsey Smith]: w

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[Byron Boston]: organization dye had hit some hard times and it was somewhat of a rebuilding mode

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[Byron Boston]: so this has been a turnaround i’m very proud that my i started a company sold it

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[Byron Boston]: and i had enough happy investors to ask me to come and do it again with her and so

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[Byron Boston]: i’m still here that was about fifteen years ago my fifteenth year at dint

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[Byron Boston]: investment trust a financial services company and we generate dividend income long

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[Byron Boston]: term total returns by financing real estate assets but most importantly our

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[Byron Boston]: purpose we’re here to make lives better and the way we make lives better is by

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[Byron Boston]: taking care of the individual savers who buy our stock or our preferred stock we

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[Byron Boston]: also make the lives better of our employees by creating a great working

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[Byron Boston]: environment and giving them also an opportunity to own dn capital stock and enjoy

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[Byron Boston]: the dividend and cash income that we throw off from that stock and then here’s

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[Byron Boston]: another category that most of won’t understand we use leverage or we borrow money

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[Byron Boston]: to to make money in other words we

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[Byron Boston]: we sell stock to our investors we then borrow additional money to then take and

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[Byron Boston]: lend that money to either directly to homeowners

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[Paul Tyler]: it’s

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[Byron Boston]: uh through securities or directly to homeowners and we also lend against other

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[Byron Boston]: asset classes such as apartment buildings malls

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[Byron Boston]: we’ve pretty much a l again in every asset class

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[Byron Boston]: in fin capital the last thirty years or so so our goal again make lives better

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[Byron Boston]: take care of the savers take care of our employees and the last category i forgot

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[Byron Boston]: to tell you was we take care of our creditors when we borrow money we don’t want

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[Byron Boston]: to be a problem to our creditors we want to be one of the best credits that they

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[Byron Boston]: have on their books

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[Ramsey Smith]: so i just want to jump in real quick there so you you’ve got a business that you

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[Ramsey Smith]: are a lender it’s you’re a leverage lender and so tell us a little bit about why

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[Ramsey Smith]: that makes you so sort of hyper focused on what’s going on

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[Ramsey Smith]: in the macroeconomic environment

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[Byron Boston]: so first off

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[Byron Boston]: just trying to think every lender most people in this economy deal with deal with

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[Byron Boston]: they’re leveraged so banks are leveraged banks leverage themselves through demand

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[Byron Boston]: deposits right and so uh they could use other type of leverage but their core uh

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[Byron Boston]: uh liability happens to be demand deposits we

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[Byron Boston]: use shorter term borrowings which are not as um

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[Byron Boston]: what word simple word i can use not as easy as demand deposits it’s a little bit

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[Byron Boston]: tougher when you’re leveraging yourself through what we call the repurchase

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[Byron Boston]: agreement market or short term markets as such

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[Byron Boston]: risk management is essential for running a real estate investment trust such as Dynex

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[Byron Boston]: capital so if you ask me for just one line about dyne i’m going to say we bring to

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[Byron Boston]: the table expert risk management

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[Byron Boston]: discipline capital allocation and those are the two skill sets that we bring to

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[Byron Boston]: the table and we’ll present you with a very skilled and experienced management

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[Byron Boston]: team so we are leveraged we must think about the

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[Ramsey Smith]: thats

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[Byron Boston]: global environment we have a very disciplined approach start first with assessing

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[Byron Boston]: the global macro environment and then work your way down to ultimately the either

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[Byron Boston]: the bond or the loan that we put in our portfolio and let me just add this one

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[Byron Boston]: thing ramsay and paul i don’t want to confuse anyone if you lent money in nineteen

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[Byron Boston]: seventy five more than likely you’re making a direct loan to a borrower in twenty

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[Byron Boston]: twenty two i have more options i can either make a direct loan or i can buy a

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[Ramsey Smith]: b

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[Byron Boston]: security

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[Byron Boston]: that is backed

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[Ramsey Smith]: back

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[Byron Boston]: by a pool of loans and those are we call securit eyed assets so today dyne

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[Ramsey Smith]: like

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[Byron Boston]: balance sheet it is majority you know ninety nine percent securit eyed assets

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[Ramsey Smith]: so to talk about and we were paul and you and i were talking about this before the

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[Ramsey Smith]: before the call like there’s a lot going on in the world right now

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[Ramsey Smith]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know tell us tell us about you know what what what’s on your mind and and

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[Ramsey Smith]: importantly like why things might be different this time around

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[Byron Boston]: that

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[Ramsey Smith]: in terms of market distress something that you have a great deal of patience for

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[Ramsey Smith]: because you expect it to happen every four five six seventy years but it might be

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[Ramsey Smith]: different this time tell us a little bit about that

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[Byron Boston]: what would you look at what

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[Byron Boston]: the main question we ask at din’s capital is what is different this time so there

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[Byron Boston]: was a book written called this time is different and you hear quoted on t v and

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[Byron Boston]: other shows and i think that book is misleading there is something different every

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[Byron Boston]: single time and the real question you ask is what is different this time but be a

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[Byron Boston]: avid student of history to understand global economic cycles global uh market

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[Byron Boston]: cycles and at

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[Byron Boston]: economic data social data political data

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[Byron Boston]: and to assess inform an opinion first and foremost on the macroeconomic

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[Byron Boston]: environment we don’t want to get so focused on that loan or that bond that we want

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[Byron Boston]: to make and ignore the global environment and we make a decision and then we get

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[Byron Boston]: completely annihilated because there’s a major macro change or such as

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[Byron Boston]: at this point we’ve experienced two exogenous shocks in the economy so in general

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[Byron Boston]: we believe a dy that the world changed as of january one twenty twenty that we

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[Byron Boston]: have entered into just a completely new environment what are the characteristics

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[Byron Boston]: of the environment first and foremost right off the back we were hit with an

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[Byron Boston]: exogenous shock as this decade started what happened next the global governments

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[Byron Boston]: both central banks and fiscal policymakers responded enormously like none of us in

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[Byron Boston]: our generation has ever seen um to try to

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[Byron Boston]: save the global economy

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[Byron Boston]: uh given this situation that they intentionally shut down the global economy none

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[Byron Boston]: of us could have ever imagined we shut down a global economy we were all sitting

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[Byron Boston]: at home two years ago not leaving our homes right so this enormous effort was made

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[Byron Boston]: um central banks took an unprecedented step except maybe during world war two of

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[Byron Boston]: stepping into the the global capital markets buying etfs bonds i don’t know it

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[Byron Boston]: seems if they bought a little bit of everything

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[Byron Boston]: and now two years into that we came into twenty twenty two

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[Byron Boston]: with the central banks intending to try to reverse that

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[Byron Boston]: and in addition

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[Byron Boston]: fiscal policy makers potentially trying to pull back on some of the fiscal policy

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[Byron Boston]: that have been added to the economy so when we started this year off at dns we

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[Byron Boston]: believe we were in a big moment in history we’ve never been through this where

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[Byron Boston]: central banks at first built up their balance sheets that large and now they’re

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[Byron Boston]: going to try to pull back the stimulus or the liquidity that have been pumped into

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[Byron Boston]: the global system and right in the middle at the beginning of this process we now

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[Byron Boston]: experience another major exogenous shock and what do we mean exogenous shock it’s

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[Byron Boston]: outside of the economic system something that happens on the outside now we have

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[Byron Boston]: to assess that and say through what mechanisms will this impact the economy and so

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[Byron Boston]: we first had this huge drop in demand from the the pandemic as we shut down the

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[Byron Boston]: economy this time we have another exogenous shock and now we’re coming through the

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[Byron Boston]: uh the mechanism uh o energy right we’re going to drive inflation

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[Byron Boston]: with that issue you could ultimately have a psychological impact because at some

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[Byron Boston]: point the war could bring very negative psychology

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[Byron Boston]: to the consumer

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[Byron Boston]: the consumer environment the largest one we’ll all talk about is inflation we had

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[Byron Boston]: an inflation issue before the exogenous shock now it’s been more exacerbated and

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[Byron Boston]: then when you think about it we’ve got the supply issue supply chains the if you

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[Byron Boston]: think about cutting off russian oil in effect we’re saying okay we’re going to cut

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[Byron Boston]: off certain supply of our energy but the demand is still there

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[Byron Boston]: so now we probably have a problem in terms of prices increasing as we try to

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[Byron Boston]: allocate

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[Byron Boston]: scarce resources so we’ve enjoyed for thirty forty years this wonderful world of

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[Byron Boston]: globalization

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Byron Boston]: it has helped keep inflation lower it took a long time for many of us to recognize

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[Byron Boston]: the

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[Ramsey Smith]: alright

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[Byron Boston]: full impact of moving production from

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[Byron Boston]: an employee asked that

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Byron Boston]: asked for fifteen dollars an hour to an employee that ask for one dollar an hour

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[Byron Boston]: that that’s in effect what took place

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[Ramsey Smith]: i

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[Byron Boston]: right we moved to the low low cost producing areas of china mexico other places in

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[Byron Boston]: asia and now these supply chains are being ripped apart and we don’t know what the

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[Byron Boston]: impact will be we do know that one of the mechanisms that it will transfer into

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[Byron Boston]: the economy will be through inflation through energy prices because that’s one of

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[Byron Boston]: the major areas that we’re going to fill this supply chain disruption taking place

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[Byron Boston]: in the short medium and long term

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[Paul Tyler]: environment

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[Paul Tyler]: step back to something you said earlier what’s different this time well that

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[Paul Tyler]: implies we know the time that we’re comparing this against

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[Paul Tyler]: and you know i’m a history i was a history major in college and i think back you

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[Paul Tyler]: know they also i think when we could have a whole show on this is i know you spent

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[Paul Tyler]: a lot of time in psychology just the social change going on you know i could say

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[Paul Tyler]: well it what’s different now than what we went through in nineteen sixty eight i

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[Paul Tyler]: could say that here in the us in certain points

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[Paul Tyler]: looking at what’s taking place

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[Paul Tyler]: psychologically and politically i don’t know it’s just back to the vit know in

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[Paul Tyler]: germany you know post world war one you know you’ve got national psyches t

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[Paul Tyler]: people trying to create myths that didn’t ever you know recreate history that

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[Paul Tyler]: never existed before how do you factor the social change going

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[Paul Tyler]: taking place at the same time

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[Byron Boston]: boy the first point is you gotta acknowledge the social issues it’s it’s it’s

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[Byron Boston]: unbelievable how many economists i talk to and they don’t recognize the social

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[Byron Boston]: issues so let’s go back to the inflation of one thousand nine hundred seventy

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[Byron Boston]: seconds that everyone wants to talk about what took place in nineteen set by the

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[Byron Boston]: side issue if someone says that the inflation ninety seven was jimmy carter issue

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[Byron Boston]: just ignore them they don’t have a clue what they’re talking about the inflation

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[Byron Boston]: that developed ultimately in the one thousand nine hundred seventy was a result of

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[Byron Boston]: multiple factors i would say over the twenty years before nineteen eighty between

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[Byron Boston]: nineteen sixty and nineteen eighty think about everything that took place because

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[Byron Boston]: it ultimately came through social issues right so you have a president shot and

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[Byron Boston]: killed in our country you we have this view of our country in great history we had

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[Paul Tyler]: sh

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[Byron Boston]: a president killed then we had his brother killed we had martin luther king killed

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[Byron Boston]: we had enormous social issues that develop enormous programs that were put in

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[Byron Boston]: place to try to to deal with this this social unrest that was happening you had

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[Byron Boston]: generational tensions between the the young baby boom generation and the older gen

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[Byron Boston]: generation before them and so this led to public policy issues that that would

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[Byron Boston]: ultimately play a role it led to especially some of the programs were trying to

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[Byron Boston]: deal with poverty and other issues such as that so these are social factors

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[Byron Boston]: rippling

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[Ramsey Smith]: correct

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[Byron Boston]: through the economy in ways that you can’t always predict so let’s think about

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[Byron Boston]: today what was amazing about twenty twenty we have this pandemic and then what

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[Byron Boston]: happens someone had a phone with a camera on it and so they video tape the police

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[Byron Boston]: in minnesota with his with his knee on the neck of george floyd so now we have

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[Byron Boston]: this huge movement developed right in the middle of this unbelievable moment in

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[Byron Boston]: history where we shut down the global economy so when we think about what is

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[Byron Boston]: taking place at dyne when we think about risk we think definitively broader than

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[Byron Boston]: just c plus i plus g plus net exports equals gdp there are a lot of factors that

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[Byron Boston]: ultimately come into play let me just point out a couple of them human conflict is

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[Byron Boston]: at the top of our list at dyne capital we’re concerned about human conflict where

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[Byron Boston]: does it come from

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[Byron Boston]: it comes from history we’re seeing this now not only in the united states we’re

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[Byron Boston]: seen in other places right you go to turkey and and you know ewan doesn’t want to

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[Byron Boston]: admit that there was a armenian genocide that took place you come to the united

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[Byron Boston]: states and you got this debate over you know how are we going to look at our own

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[Byron Boston]: history here in the united states you’ll probably go to germany you’ll have find

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[Byron Boston]: some germans and want to deny that there was a holocaust so so right off the bat

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[Byron Boston]: the social issues around just what has happened in the past and how we’re going to

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[Byron Boston]: reconcile and deal with what has happened in the past um today

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[Byron Boston]: income and wealth inequality in my opinion is like high blood pressure in your

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[Byron Boston]: body they call it a silent killer and so it’s it’s or or is the the professor from

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[Byron Boston]: university of chicago wrote the book fault line it’s a crack beneath the surface

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[Byron Boston]: of a global economy and it will manifest itself in ways that of us can really

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[Byron Boston]: imagine that it’s happening whether it’s electing an extreme person into office

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[Byron Boston]: because a certain sector of the population feels less left behind

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[Byron Boston]: or whether it’s just an explosive situation that took place if you remember the

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[Byron Boston]: arab spring or how about the french revolution we could go on and on in terms of

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[Byron Boston]: how might wealth and income inequality manifests itself you layer on top of that

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[Byron Boston]: technology and so now back to the human beings right because that’s what sociology

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[Byron Boston]: and psychology happens to be technology has allowed us to really experience

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[Byron Boston]: everyone else more than when i was a child so i didn’t grow up on the the

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[Byron Boston]: wealthiest side of the railroad tracks but if you had to ask me if we were not

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[Byron Boston]: wealth i would have been not i don’t know what you’re talking about we’re fine but

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[Byron Boston]: when i went

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[Paul Tyler]: it

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[Byron Boston]: to dartmouth and all of a sudden i started to realize how other people lived then

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[Byron Boston]: it was like whoa man maybe you know maybe life is a little different for us right

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[Byron Boston]: but today technology take talk newspapers facebook they keep everyone

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[Byron Boston]: almost whatever

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[Byron Boston]: coveting everyone else and it’s that’s a psychological issue that comes into play

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[Byron Boston]: the wealthy don’t live a life that no one else sees the wealthy live a life where

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[Byron Boston]: all the poor people can see exactly how they live and they can see what they’re

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[Byron Boston]: missing so there are a lot of social factors that are coming into play the one

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[Byron Boston]: that concerns me the most is human conflict we’re seeing that in terms of the

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[Byron Boston]: russian situation today i had some more colorful language i’ve used in my office

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[Byron Boston]: on this i won’t use that that color uh language

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[Ramsey Smith]: no

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[Byron Boston]: here but

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[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t care

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[Byron Boston]: we have had a larger amount of authoritarian type leaders rise to the global stage

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[Byron Boston]: over the last call it ten to twenty years and it’s concerning to us at

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[Byron Boston]: i hope that wasn’t too long winded there’s a lot

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[Ramsey Smith]: no

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[Byron Boston]: of social

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[Paul Tyler]: no no

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[Byron Boston]: factors that are happening there’s a ton

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[Paul Tyler]: no well you know and i think it’s it’s interesting how how do all these pieces add

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[Paul Tyler]: up to something different right pandemic we’re stuck in we’re on zoom all of a

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[Paul Tyler]: sudden we realized oh the technologies has been sitting here for ten years

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[Paul Tyler]: actually is kind of useful connects all of us you know ukraine is interesting

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[Paul Tyler]: because

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[Paul Tyler]: y

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[Paul Tyler]: as i’ve started to kind of start talking to people i know somebody you know i know

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[Paul Tyler]: a startup in ukraine i talked to her when she had her two two months ago she had

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[Paul Tyler]: her bag ca work on zoom she says oh yeah i have a bag of cash i have a gun my tank

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[Paul Tyler]: of is filled with gas

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[Paul Tyler]: wait a second i’m looking at you i feel like i know you and i see you here i think

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[Paul Tyler]: you know ukraine has such technology talent we’ve had so many you know especially

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[Paul Tyler]: in our business you know i have worked with so many different technology vendors

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[Paul Tyler]: now there these people just to screen away you feel like you know them you know i

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[Paul Tyler]: talked to somebody who was was on slack

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[Byron Boston]: yeah i do feel like you know

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[Paul Tyler]: slacking somebody and on video with a programmer in ukraine doing their day job in

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[Paul Tyler]: a bomb shelter with wi fi

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[Paul Tyler]: right now you know to buy your point if you didn’t have a camera and a screen in a

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[Paul Tyler]: on every

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[Paul Tyler]: camera i don’t know would ukraine just be kind of a strange thing off to the side

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[Paul Tyler]: and we don’t know how to spell it we barely you know now we know to say cave right

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[Paul Tyler]: a lot more than that a lot more

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[Byron Boston]: yeah yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: hm

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[Byron Boston]: yeah it would be off to the side i i’ll tell you i have

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[Byron Boston]: a wonderful woman who reports to me

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[Byron Boston]: employee dix she is from the ukraine she came to the u s in the nineteen nineties

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[Byron Boston]: and she challenged me she said oh byron

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[Ramsey Smith]: she

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[Byron Boston]: what’s different between bosnia in the nineteen nineties her husband is from

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[Byron Boston]: bosnia so he

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[Paul Tyler]: wow

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[Byron Boston]: is he he unfortunately felt the brunt

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[Byron Boston]: uh um uh he’s a muslim descent from bosnia and uh she said what’s the difference

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[Byron Boston]: the world didn’t care about bosnia and the world didn’t care about syria why is

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[Byron Boston]: everyone responding to this so she’s from ukraine and i said you know that’s a

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[Byron Boston]: good question i thought about it pretty hard and i said the ukrainians are doing

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[Byron Boston]: something really really powerful they’re using the media and technology to make

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[Byron Boston]: sure that we all live this horrible journey with them

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[Byron Boston]: we’re living this journey i mean we’re seeing the president there he’s on the air

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[Byron Boston]: we can see it we can see the story we’re living this with them in the one thousand

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[Byron Boston]: nine hundred ninety seconds when they’s events were taking place in the balkans we

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[Byron Boston]: really didn’t know we didn’t have life to infect some of the worst genocide events

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[Byron Boston]: we’ve only been told about it because no one who was there is really trying to

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[Byron Boston]: admit if you talk to the serbian people today apparently my understanding is

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[Byron Boston]: they’ll deny that there was ever any type of genocide events that took place but

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[Byron Boston]: this is different what’s different this time right what’s different is that

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[Byron Boston]: they’re taking social media and they’re ensuring that byron paul and ramsey live

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[Byron Boston]: with them

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[Byron Boston]: the the or or get as close get close to it we can’t live with them because of

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[Byron Boston]: they’re feeling the pain of this what is taking place we’re seeing this president

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[Byron Boston]: speak on video we’re seeing other people

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[Byron Boston]: broadcasting up to the web we’re all living this experience day to day with them

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[Byron Boston]: very different than the balkan situation in the one thousand nine hundred ninety

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[Byron Boston]: seconds when we didn’t really have internet at that time didn’t have cell phones

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[Byron Boston]: didn’t have tick talk didn’t have facebook ett cetera et cetera so we’re living

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[Byron Boston]: this event together so it’s hard

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[Ramsey Smith]: mm

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[Byron Boston]: not to feel something

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[Ramsey Smith]: alright

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[Byron Boston]: with it i know there’s a lot of debate about you know why

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[Byron Boston]: is this getting a lot more attention than even some of the syrian it’s that point

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[Byron Boston]: the technology use here is to me seems very different and it’s allowing me to live

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[Byron Boston]: this

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[Byron Boston]: with the people of ukraine in some way

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[Ramsey Smith]: so do you have do you have any thoughts on how this might all play out i know

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[Ramsey Smith]: that’s a tough question none of us really know right

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[Byron Boston]: nine

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[Ramsey Smith]: but like do you

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[Ramsey Smith]: there’s so many directions it could go so

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[Ramsey Smith]: uh

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[Ramsey Smith]: putin could putin could

366
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[Ramsey Smith]: stop right he could keep going past ukraine even if he stops in ukraine like the

367
00:24:33,687 –> 00:24:36,967
[Ramsey Smith]: outcome can be a lot of different things like there could be some sort of some

368
00:24:37,047 –> 00:24:38,887
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of peace where he takes part of ukraine

369
00:24:40,167 –> 00:24:42,887
[Ramsey Smith]: he give some of the back to the existing government there’s all these various

370
00:24:43,367 –> 00:24:48,007
[Ramsey Smith]: outcomes like do you have a do you have any thoughts on what might be likely

371
00:24:48,087 –> 00:24:52,647
[Ramsey Smith]: outcomes or or even if not that like what maybe the implications are

372
00:24:54,020 –> 00:24:55,020
[Byron Boston]: right

373
00:24:54,567 –> 00:24:55,927
[Ramsey Smith]: for some of the various outcomes

374
00:24:55,680 –> 00:25:01,200
[Byron Boston]: yeah sorry so so so as ceo of dyne capital i am a coach right so the

375
00:25:00,747 –> 00:25:01,747
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

376
00:25:01,280 –> 00:25:04,800
[Byron Boston]: way i tell smart papo who’s the president of our company companies and the chief

377
00:25:04,960 –> 00:25:07,920
[Byron Boston]: investment officer i tell her all the time i say you’re the quarter back on the

378
00:25:07,920 –> 00:25:11,520
[Byron Boston]: fuel i’m on the sidelines i’m the coach so i can’t come on the film through the

379
00:25:11,340 –> 00:25:12,340
[Byron Boston]: past so i’m coaching

380
00:25:11,787 –> 00:25:12,787
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

381
00:25:12,140 –> 00:25:13,140
[Byron Boston]: my team through this

382
00:25:14,240 –> 00:25:20,480
[Byron Boston]: event so first and foremost this is evolving no one knows what’s going to happen

383
00:25:20,720 –> 00:25:25,120
[Byron Boston]: here no different than the summer july of nineteen fourteen no one really knew

384
00:25:25,520 –> 00:25:28,960
[Byron Boston]: what was ultimately going to take place but there are some things that i can

385
00:25:28,827 –> 00:25:29,827
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

386
00:25:29,360 –> 00:25:31,120
[Byron Boston]: lean on and say okay this is what’s

387
00:25:32,400 –> 00:25:35,040
[Byron Boston]: the world is has changed period

388
00:25:36,160 –> 00:25:41,760
[Byron Boston]: get used to it what we knew ten years ago when the travel and the globalization

389
00:25:42,160 –> 00:25:46,240
[Byron Boston]: like it had gotten and it was and the great low prices we all enjoyed as the

390
00:25:46,320 –> 00:25:50,640
[Byron Boston]: iphones were made in china and brought back one piece made in mexico one in china

391
00:25:50,720 –> 00:25:55,520
[Byron Boston]: one and someplace else the world has changed we are going to go through a

392
00:25:55,600 –> 00:25:57,600
[Byron Boston]: decoupling process of some sort

393
00:25:58,800 –> 00:26:04,800
[Byron Boston]: what will it be how dramatic will it be how long would it last we’re not sure oil

394
00:26:05,440 –> 00:26:07,760
[Byron Boston]: clearly has been a political commodity

395
00:26:07,478 –> 00:26:08,478
[Paul Tyler]: yes

396
00:26:07,780 –> 00:26:08,780
[Byron Boston]: for

397
00:26:09,680 –> 00:26:16,640
[Byron Boston]: ages it continues to be a political commodity today so we’ve got to come to grips

398
00:26:16,720 –> 00:26:21,440
[Byron Boston]: with the fact at dye capital the world has changed we don’t need to sit around and

399
00:26:21,520 –> 00:26:27,600
[Byron Boston]: be and and cry over spilled milk the world has changed so things could escalate or

400
00:26:27,760 –> 00:26:32,000
[Byron Boston]: or they could could de escalate but we don’t know which way that will take place

401
00:26:32,160 –> 00:26:37,760
[Byron Boston]: and what we do at dns think through these scenarios what will we do in this a

402
00:26:37,760 –> 00:26:41,040
[Byron Boston]: generic situation what would we do in this situation what we do in this situation

403
00:26:41,600 –> 00:26:47,440
[Byron Boston]: one of the complications here is that before russia invaded ukraine at dns we

404
00:26:47,520 –> 00:26:53,200
[Byron Boston]: believe this was a big moment in history just based off of but governments trying

405
00:26:53,360 –> 00:26:57,840
[Byron Boston]: to pull back the liquidity that they had pumped to all the liquidity pumped into

406
00:26:57,740 –> 00:26:58,740
[Byron Boston]: the global system

407
00:26:59,680 –> 00:27:05,120
[Byron Boston]: to spare the world the pain of the pandemic so that was huge in itself so now you

408
00:27:05,280 –> 00:27:10,480
[Byron Boston]: layer this exogenous shock on top of it it really complicates the picture things

409
00:27:10,640 –> 00:27:15,760
[Byron Boston]: have changed supply chains are going to to change um if you recall in the one

410
00:27:15,760 –> 00:27:19,680
[Byron Boston]: thousand nine hundred seventy seconds you may not have been born yet ramsey but we

411
00:27:19,840 –> 00:27:25,360
[Byron Boston]: all had to to start we the speed limit on the highways were dropped from seventy

412
00:27:25,440 –> 00:27:29,600
[Byron Boston]: seventy five miles an hour to fifty five it was a federal law the speed could

413
00:27:29,760 –> 00:27:34,080
[Byron Boston]: drive over fifty five miles an hour on an interstate highway and so that was just

414
00:27:33,980 –> 00:27:34,980
[Byron Boston]: a big deal everyone

415
00:27:34,507 –> 00:27:35,507
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

416
00:27:35,040 –> 00:27:39,520
[Byron Boston]: was like oh my gosh the speed limit is fifty five and then i think gas stations

417
00:27:39,600 –> 00:27:43,520
[Byron Boston]: were closing at night and there was a lot of adjustments that had to be made

418
00:27:43,920 –> 00:27:47,680
[Byron Boston]: during those oil embargoes so it’s been wonderful we’ve had a great life you know

419
00:27:47,760 –> 00:27:51,200
[Byron Boston]: everybody’s been traveling visiting other countries and everything’s been great

420
00:27:51,600 –> 00:27:56,400
[Byron Boston]: but things changed at this point likewise we all got used to this wonderful low

421
00:27:56,640 –> 00:28:01,760
[Byron Boston]: inflationary world and prices continuing to come down and if you look at history

422
00:28:02,160 –> 00:28:06,960
[Byron Boston]: in reality inflation has always been tended to be higher than what we’ve

423
00:28:07,040 –> 00:28:10,880
[Byron Boston]: experienced maybe over the last decade or so so we’re probably going to have to

424
00:28:10,960 –> 00:28:15,360
[Byron Boston]: get used to because if nothing else these supply chains changing and breaking down

425
00:28:15,840 –> 00:28:20,560
[Byron Boston]: and volving to something new we’ll probably end up with more inflation than we had

426
00:28:20,800 –> 00:28:25,520
[Byron Boston]: before one concern again i have i have a concern on the human conflict because i’m

427
00:28:25,600 –> 00:28:29,920
[Byron Boston]: concerned that this wealth and income inequality is being exacerbated by all of

428
00:28:30,000 –> 00:28:34,560
[Byron Boston]: these developments from the pandemic to this current development clearly the

429
00:28:34,640 –> 00:28:39,120
[Byron Boston]: higher oil and gas prices are hammering the lower income parts of the world more

430
00:28:39,520 –> 00:28:42,480
[Byron Boston]: than the higher income participants so the

431
00:28:43,520 –> 00:28:47,520
[Byron Boston]: the future is very very uncertain it’s not a new

432
00:28:47,158 –> 00:28:48,158
[Paul Tyler]: w

433
00:28:47,680 –> 00:28:51,920
[Byron Boston]: place for the world the world has been again study nineteen fourteen to nineteen

434
00:28:52,160 –> 00:28:53,760
[Byron Boston]: forty five but you could also study other

435
00:28:53,478 –> 00:28:54,478
[Paul Tyler]: see

436
00:28:54,080 –> 00:28:56,960
[Byron Boston]: other periods you could study the one thousand nine hundred sixty seconds

437
00:28:58,240 –> 00:29:02,000
[Byron Boston]: the world has i i know you want it to say it’s all nice and peaceful everybody’s

438
00:29:02,080 –> 00:29:07,200
[Byron Boston]: happy but that hasn’t been the case throughout history so things have changed we

439
00:29:07,440 –> 00:29:10,480
[Byron Boston]: are acting at dynamics if things have changed we’re trying to draw up scenarios

440
00:29:10,560 –> 00:29:11,760
[Byron Boston]: that include

441
00:29:12,940 –> 00:29:13,940
[Byron Boston]: some very

442
00:29:14,800 –> 00:29:15,920
[Byron Boston]: extreme scenarios

443
00:29:16,247 –> 00:29:21,207
[Ramsey Smith]: so then how do you how do you manage money differently so you have the old regime

444
00:29:21,367 –> 00:29:26,487
[Ramsey Smith]: right and you approach risk management one way and now this is new regime it’s

445
00:29:26,487 –> 00:29:31,127
[Ramsey Smith]: hyper inflation and but not hyper it it is inflationary it is inflationary there’s

446
00:29:30,740 –> 00:29:31,740
[Byron Boston]: yeah

447
00:29:31,207 –> 00:29:35,927
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s a lot of new risks um you know do you do you invest in different

448
00:29:36,087 –> 00:29:38,807
[Ramsey Smith]: instruments do you like how do you think about

449
00:29:40,167 –> 00:29:44,087
[Ramsey Smith]: you know managing your interest rate exposure just just big picture like what are

450
00:29:44,247 –> 00:29:47,767
[Ramsey Smith]: some what are some meaningful changes you think you’ll make in the way you run

451
00:29:47,467 –> 00:29:48,467
[Ramsey Smith]: your business

452
00:29:48,720 –> 00:29:53,280
[Byron Boston]: okay so i’m glad you asked this question i did bring this quote with me today so

453
00:29:53,067 –> 00:29:54,067
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

454
00:29:53,600 –> 00:29:58,400
[Byron Boston]: eight years ago in twenty fourteen here’s a quote from my

455
00:29:59,860 –> 00:30:00,860
[Byron Boston]: my fourth quarter

456
00:30:02,320 –> 00:30:06,960
[Byron Boston]: earnings call at the beginning of twenty fourteen i said we believe that economic

457
00:30:07,360 –> 00:30:11,360
[Byron Boston]: uncertainty regulatory uncertainty global market uncertainty have created a very

458
00:30:11,760 –> 00:30:17,360
[Byron Boston]: complex environment for global growth to be able to accelerate the levels seen in

459
00:30:17,440 –> 00:30:19,440
[Byron Boston]: prior post war uh

460
00:30:19,147 –> 00:30:20,147
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

461
00:30:19,840 –> 00:30:24,320
[Byron Boston]: post war periods the recoveries so we use the word complex

462
00:30:25,600 –> 00:30:29,200
[Byron Boston]: i got a ton of people who like really challenged me for saying that the global

463
00:30:29,840 –> 00:30:32,000
[Byron Boston]: risk environment was complex that was twenty

464
00:30:32,187 –> 00:30:33,187
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m

465
00:30:32,400 –> 00:30:34,160
[Byron Boston]: fourteen so why is that relevant

466
00:30:35,220 –> 00:30:36,220
[Byron Boston]: look at i

467
00:30:35,907 –> 00:30:36,907
[Ramsey Smith]: oh i live there

468
00:30:36,000 –> 00:30:38,640
[Byron Boston]: joined Dynex in two thousand and eight when

469
00:30:38,800 –> 00:30:43,600
[Byron Boston]: we first started to invest we invested safely then we took on more risk starting

470
00:30:38,807 –> 00:30:40,647
[Ramsey Smith]: is more so creating to remember

471
00:30:43,380 –> 00:30:44,380
[Byron Boston]: about two

472
00:30:43,667 –> 00:30:44,667
[Ramsey Smith]: all those

473
00:30:44,080 –> 00:30:48,080
[Byron Boston]: thousand nine we went what we call down in credit we bought triple b assets single

474
00:30:48,160 –> 00:30:52,560
[Byron Boston]: a rated assets some non rated assets we took a ton of risk in terms of credit

475
00:30:53,280 –> 00:30:57,760
[Byron Boston]: about this period in twenty fourteen because we were concerned about the uh uh the

476
00:30:57,920 –> 00:31:00,880
[Byron Boston]: rising level of global risk complexity

477
00:31:00,507 –> 00:31:01,507
[Ramsey Smith]: movie

478
00:31:01,220 –> 00:31:02,220
[Byron Boston]: we started to

479
00:31:01,707 –> 00:31:02,707
[Ramsey Smith]: c

480
00:31:02,640 –> 00:31:07,200
[Byron Boston]: go what we call up and credit and up in liquidity we sold our lower credit rated

481
00:31:07,100 –> 00:31:08,100
[Byron Boston]: assets

482
00:31:08,880 –> 00:31:12,480
[Byron Boston]: we then started to sell our less liquid assets

483
00:31:12,107 –> 00:31:13,107
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

484
00:31:13,040 –> 00:31:17,360
[Byron Boston]: and we moved what we call up and credit and up in liquidity by twenty eight

485
00:31:17,840 –> 00:31:18,880
[Byron Boston]: eighteen we were

486
00:31:18,667 –> 00:31:19,667
[Ramsey Smith]: education

487
00:31:19,120 –> 00:31:20,960
[Byron Boston]: pretty much so ninety five per cent

488
00:31:21,127 –> 00:31:23,847
[Ramsey Smith]: oh if you’re gonna go down there’s in the face

489
00:31:21,600 –> 00:31:24,880
[Byron Boston]: uh ownership the assets on our balance sheet that we

490
00:31:24,587 –> 00:31:25,587
[Ramsey Smith]: and

491
00:31:24,960 –> 00:31:27,280
[Byron Boston]: owned were all all the most liquid

492
00:31:28,480 –> 00:31:32,560
[Byron Boston]: real estate bonds that we could find which are thirty year residential

493
00:31:32,880 –> 00:31:39,040
[Byron Boston]: freddie mac fanny may securities furthermore we increase the amount of cash in

494
00:31:33,127 –> 00:31:35,767
[Ramsey Smith]: for in e as in rush text

495
00:31:38,780 –> 00:31:39,780
[Byron Boston]: what we call

496
00:31:39,547 –> 00:31:40,547
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

497
00:31:39,600 –> 00:31:43,680
[Byron Boston]: unencumbered securities on our balance sheet that we call out liquidity versus

498
00:31:44,000 –> 00:31:49,920
[Byron Boston]: twenty thirteen when bernanke said taper we’re probably carrying you know six

499
00:31:49,700 –> 00:31:50,700
[Byron Boston]: seven

500
00:31:51,280 –> 00:31:56,080
[Byron Boston]: eight times as much cash and unencumbered assets on our balance sheet so we’re

501
00:31:56,240 –> 00:32:02,640
[Byron Boston]: very very liquid and we have a very very flexible mindset because we believe the

502
00:32:02,620 –> 00:32:03,620
[Byron Boston]: world is complex

503
00:32:04,880 –> 00:32:05,920
[Byron Boston]: and we believe we’re

504
00:32:05,867 –> 00:32:06,867
[Ramsey Smith]: just kind printing

505
00:32:06,000 –> 00:32:10,400
[Byron Boston]: going to be surprised the phrase we use is surprises are highly probable clearly

506
00:32:10,480 –> 00:32:14,960
[Byron Boston]: over the last eight years the surprises have continued to come and we’ve stuck

507
00:32:15,120 –> 00:32:19,680
[Byron Boston]: with our posture of being up in credit and up in liquidity this give us the

508
00:32:19,840 –> 00:32:24,160
[Byron Boston]: ability in my opinion we make the right decisions we have the ability to make

509
00:32:24,320 –> 00:32:28,640
[Byron Boston]: money in any environment um now you got to be able to assess the environment right

510
00:32:28,460 –> 00:32:29,460
[Byron Boston]: now you can’t

511
00:32:28,827 –> 00:32:29,827
[Ramsey Smith]: sh

512
00:32:29,200 –> 00:32:31,600
[Byron Boston]: assess the environment it’s uncertain what’s not gonna happen

513
00:32:30,887 –> 00:32:35,687
[Ramsey Smith]: so so so higher quality higher quality credits higher liquidity and

514
00:32:36,727 –> 00:32:38,567
[Ramsey Smith]: that served you well through the pandemic

515
00:32:38,880 –> 00:32:42,000
[Byron Boston]: yes very well through the pandemic we were ready for that we look very well

516
00:32:38,967 –> 00:32:44,727
[Ramsey Smith]: right at right not right like if you look at like some some mortgage rates did

517
00:32:44,707 –> 00:32:45,707
[Ramsey Smith]: better than others

518
00:32:45,927 –> 00:32:51,127
[Ramsey Smith]: in through the pandemic put that put it that way and then and then here you are in

519
00:32:46,000 –> 00:32:47,760
[Byron Boston]: yes substantially better

520
00:32:51,207 –> 00:32:56,087
[Ramsey Smith]: this next crisis and it sounds like a strategy it works it’s continue to work well

521
00:32:57,367 –> 00:33:02,487
[Ramsey Smith]: you know the takeaway for this audience you know is is just sort of think about

522
00:33:02,567 –> 00:33:04,647
[Ramsey Smith]: things is like all right well how how do i think about

523
00:33:05,767 –> 00:33:11,047
[Ramsey Smith]: my own portfolio or my client’s portfolios if one is to sort of follow your lead

524
00:33:12,087 –> 00:33:15,607
[Ramsey Smith]: it is it is you know a flight to flight to higher quality

525
00:33:16,647 –> 00:33:21,047
[Ramsey Smith]: a flight to higher quality and having more liquidity as opposed to sort of dialing

526
00:33:21,127 –> 00:33:23,127
[Ramsey Smith]: up on risk but the interesting thing is everybody

527
00:33:24,167 –> 00:33:26,087
[Ramsey Smith]: everybody’s dialing up on risk these days

528
00:33:26,240 –> 00:33:28,480
[Byron Boston]: they are everyone wants to buy the dip

529
00:33:26,727 –> 00:33:29,847
[Ramsey Smith]: right we are in a low interest rate environment so a lot of people are going the

530
00:33:29,847 –> 00:33:33,127
[Ramsey Smith]: other way right so that’s kind of an interesting dichotomy there yeah

531
00:33:30,480 –> 00:33:34,560
[Byron Boston]: yeah they are they are can i give your thought on that um

532
00:33:34,187 –> 00:33:35,187
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

533
00:33:34,960 –> 00:33:39,200
[Byron Boston]: because i’m always thinking about the the individual investor i’d say fifty

534
00:33:39,440 –> 00:33:45,280
[Byron Boston]: percent of our investors are what we call retail investors and i have a great

535
00:33:45,520 –> 00:33:48,320
[Byron Boston]: concern for my generation the baby boom generation

536
00:33:49,360 –> 00:33:54,160
[Byron Boston]: they have just talked to too many friends who all believe in buying the dip they

537
00:33:54,320 –> 00:33:58,320
[Byron Boston]: all use phrases like well it always comes back don’t sell buy into it it always

538
00:33:58,260 –> 00:33:59,260
[Byron Boston]: comes back

539
00:34:00,560 –> 00:34:02,240
[Byron Boston]: you know by the dip mentality

540
00:34:03,280 –> 00:34:07,360
[Byron Boston]: i would urge whether it’s a if you’re an investment advisor listening to this or

541
00:34:07,440 –> 00:34:13,200
[Byron Boston]: if you an individual listening to this i would not simply fall back on the by the

542
00:34:13,280 –> 00:34:18,480
[Byron Boston]: dip mentality i would really do some analysis and understand why you are

543
00:34:18,800 –> 00:34:23,040
[Byron Boston]: continuing to if you’ve got your your your you just fully invested

544
00:34:24,560 –> 00:34:29,440
[Byron Boston]: you know for example all your risk is in stocks i would try to diversify in some

545
00:34:29,520 –> 00:34:31,840
[Byron Boston]: way shape form a fashion your holdings

546
00:34:33,600 –> 00:34:40,240
[Byron Boston]: i would ask myself what would happen if the stock market corrected and it didn’t

547
00:34:40,320 –> 00:34:44,880
[Byron Boston]: come back for seven years so i’m using the seven year benchmark because i think if

548
00:34:44,880 –> 00:34:49,680
[Byron Boston]: you bought the s and p five hundred in two thousand jan two thousand i don’t think

549
00:34:49,760 –> 00:34:55,280
[Byron Boston]: you got back to even t two thousand seven and then you got cober again with the

550
00:34:55,440 –> 00:34:59,920
[Byron Boston]: with the great uh financial crash and then you had to wait another probably seven

551
00:35:00,160 –> 00:35:04,560
[Byron Boston]: or eight years after that to get back to that level if you would have bought the s

552
00:35:04,720 –> 00:35:09,120
[Byron Boston]: and p five hundred i think in nineteen twenty nine you didn’t get back even until

553
00:35:09,300 –> 00:35:10,300
[Byron Boston]: nineteen fifty five

554
00:35:10,358 –> 00:35:11,358
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

555
00:35:11,280 –> 00:35:15,600
[Byron Boston]: and so finally we ran a chart at Dynex that

556
00:35:16,800 –> 00:35:21,120
[Byron Boston]: that layered on the growth of the fed’s balance sheet and the s and

557
00:35:20,747 –> 00:35:21,747
[Ramsey Smith]: where

558
00:35:21,200 –> 00:35:25,040
[Byron Boston]: p five hundred and and if you just a visual looks like a one to one relationship

559
00:35:25,680 –> 00:35:28,800
[Byron Boston]: right so there’s been a ton of liquidity pumped into the global system

560
00:35:28,427 –> 00:35:29,427
[Ramsey Smith]: oh

561
00:35:29,040 –> 00:35:30,160
[Byron Boston]: by the central banks

562
00:35:30,027 –> 00:35:31,027
[Ramsey Smith]: oh

563
00:35:30,640 –> 00:35:32,320
[Byron Boston]: that has inflated all

564
00:35:32,187 –> 00:35:33,187
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

565
00:35:34,080 –> 00:35:35,360
[Byron Boston]: all like let be two

566
00:35:36,460 –> 00:35:37,460
[Byron Boston]: an enormous

567
00:35:36,947 –> 00:35:37,947
[Ramsey Smith]: you cannot

568
00:35:37,440 –> 00:35:41,600
[Byron Boston]: amount of elevation in global asset prices stocks um

569
00:35:43,040 –> 00:35:44,480
[Byron Boston]: anti cars art

570
00:35:45,520 –> 00:35:49,120
[Byron Boston]: houses at least in the housing i think it’s a little bit unique i have an opinion

571
00:35:49,120 –> 00:35:54,000
[Byron Boston]: on that i’ll give you but they’re crypto there’s an enormous amount of liquidity

572
00:35:54,320 –> 00:35:59,600
[Byron Boston]: that has supported global asset prices i personally this is a byron opinion i am

573
00:35:59,840 –> 00:36:04,640
[Byron Boston]: concerned about a global asset price correction i don’t believe if let’s say you

574
00:36:04,640 –> 00:36:07,760
[Byron Boston]: didn’t have the russia situation if the central banks would have tried to reduce

575
00:36:08,000 –> 00:36:12,400
[Byron Boston]: their balance sheets and they try to do it now i eventually i do not believe they

576
00:36:12,480 –> 00:36:16,000
[Byron Boston]: can do it without with a soft landing i i don’t believe that they can do it with a

577
00:36:16,000 –> 00:36:20,560
[Byron Boston]: soft landing that i i just don’t believe they can do it so i am concerned about

578
00:36:20,640 –> 00:36:25,440
[Byron Boston]: the baby boom generation why because i’m sixty three so let’s say i take a hit in

579
00:36:25,520 –> 00:36:28,960
[Byron Boston]: two thousand it doesn’t come back to seven years okay i’m seventy now and then

580
00:36:29,040 –> 00:36:32,080
[Byron Boston]: let’s say i take another hit like the great financial crash when i’m seventy and i

581
00:36:32,320 –> 00:36:35,840
[Byron Boston]: maybe i’m dead by the time or before it comes back you see what i’m saying i mean

582
00:36:35,920 –> 00:36:39,360
[Byron Boston]: i’m just being real here about it if you’re if you you’ve got to think if you

583
00:36:39,440 –> 00:36:43,920
[Byron Boston]: don’t earn money anymore you’ve retired a lot of baby boomers have retired early

584
00:36:44,240 –> 00:36:48,960
[Byron Boston]: right the great resignation you must make sure you think about do you have enough

585
00:36:49,280 –> 00:36:53,280
[Byron Boston]: assets to go as long as you want to live everyone says i want to let them ninety

586
00:36:53,360 –> 00:36:57,040
[Byron Boston]: ninety five really well then maybe you should should work to seventy you know so

587
00:36:56,678 –> 00:36:57,678
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

588
00:36:57,200 –> 00:37:01,680
[Byron Boston]: check your income make sure you’ve got enough coming in and understand that this

589
00:37:01,760 –> 00:37:08,880
[Byron Boston]: is a unique moment in history don’t just buy the dip because you bought the dip in

590
00:37:08,960 –> 00:37:10,960
[Byron Boston]: nineteen nineties and everything worked out okay

591
00:37:12,478 –> 00:37:13,478
[Paul Tyler]: wow

592
00:37:14,098 –> 00:37:15,138
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey this was

593
00:37:14,827 –> 00:37:15,827
[Ramsey Smith]: but

594
00:37:15,298 –> 00:37:16,658
[Paul Tyler]: great where the end of the hour

595
00:37:17,598 –> 00:37:18,598
[Paul Tyler]: it went fast

596
00:37:19,067 –> 00:37:20,067
[Ramsey Smith]: sure did

597
00:37:19,620 –> 00:37:20,620
[Byron Boston]: yeah

598
00:37:21,207 –> 00:37:28,247
[Ramsey Smith]: so at byron thanks thanks for thanks for coming back a lot of takeaways from that

599
00:37:28,407 –> 00:37:33,447
[Ramsey Smith]: but perhaps the biggest one for me this time around was you know that there’s not

600
00:37:33,767 –> 00:37:37,847
[Ramsey Smith]: probably a scope for soft landing and right and most importantly you didn’t see a

601
00:37:37,927 –> 00:37:38,967
[Ramsey Smith]: soft landing before

602
00:37:39,220 –> 00:37:40,220
[Byron Boston]: no

603
00:37:39,447 –> 00:37:40,887
[Ramsey Smith]: russia invaded ukraine

604
00:37:41,020 –> 00:37:42,020
[Byron Boston]: no i really don’t know

605
00:37:41,847 –> 00:37:46,567
[Ramsey Smith]: so whatever the delta was on you know they’re not being a soft landing it’s even

606
00:37:46,427 –> 00:37:47,427
[Ramsey Smith]: higher so

607
00:37:46,820 –> 00:37:47,820
[Byron Boston]: yeah

608
00:37:47,207 –> 00:37:50,007
[Ramsey Smith]: i yeah hard landing the delta hard landing is even higher

609
00:37:49,700 –> 00:37:50,700
[Byron Boston]: yeah

610
00:37:50,407 –> 00:37:55,687
[Ramsey Smith]: so a that’s a very very sort of interesting view and it’s consistent with your

611
00:37:55,767 –> 00:37:59,367
[Ramsey Smith]: focus on liquidity and higher quality so thank think of shame

612
00:37:57,840 –> 00:38:01,200
[Byron Boston]: and we’re still able to generate a solid above average dividend yield it’s not

613
00:38:00,747 –> 00:38:01,747
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

614
00:38:01,200 –> 00:38:04,080
[Byron Boston]: like we’ve said shareholders are well at a great above average

615
00:38:03,787 –> 00:38:04,787
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

616
00:38:03,980 –> 00:38:04,980
[Byron Boston]: dividend yield

617
00:38:06,320 –> 00:38:09,840
[Byron Boston]: guys are still making solid cash income from both our preferred stock

618
00:38:09,387 –> 00:38:10,387
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

619
00:38:09,860 –> 00:38:10,860
[Byron Boston]: and our common stock

620
00:38:11,378 –> 00:38:17,138
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well byron thank you again this was i got a lot of more questions we’ll save

621
00:38:17,078 –> 00:38:18,078
[Paul Tyler]: it for that for next step

622
00:38:18,507 –> 00:38:19,507
[Ramsey Smith]: hi

623
00:38:20,258 –> 00:38:22,578
[Paul Tyler]: if people want to get more of what you’re

624
00:38:23,598 –> 00:38:24,598
[Paul Tyler]: telling us

625
00:38:25,378 –> 00:38:28,898
[Paul Tyler]: how do they do this what is the best way to follow you know what you’re writing

626
00:38:28,798 –> 00:38:29,798
[Paul Tyler]: saying doing

627
00:38:31,300 –> 00:38:32,300
[Byron Boston]: you know we we do have

628
00:38:31,947 –> 00:38:32,947
[Ramsey Smith]: let’s see

629
00:38:32,480 –> 00:38:38,880
[Byron Boston]: our quarterly uh calls are very detailed and we do have a macro view we start with

630
00:38:38,960 –> 00:38:45,200
[Byron Boston]: the macro view to ultimately get to the investments so every quarter we do have a

631
00:38:45,360 –> 00:38:50,800
[Byron Boston]: call sometimes i post on a linkedin but i try try to be very careful

632
00:38:51,920 –> 00:38:58,240
[Byron Boston]: about some of the social media we do at Dynex we do post we do post certain points we

633
00:38:58,480 –> 00:39:00,160
[Byron Boston]: thought about you know some of the economic

634
00:39:01,140 –> 00:39:02,140
[Byron Boston]: thoughts that we have

635
00:39:03,200 –> 00:39:07,280
[Byron Boston]: but you know it’s like when i said complex in two thousand fourteen i had so many

636
00:39:07,360 –> 00:39:10,720
[Byron Boston]: people who didn’t understand what i was really saying why were we going up in

637
00:39:10,720 –> 00:39:15,520
[Byron Boston]: credit or up in liquidity and so sometimes i like yeah you know fine i’ve got

638
00:39:15,540 –> 00:39:16,540
[Byron Boston]: shareholders who

639
00:39:16,358 –> 00:39:17,358
[Paul Tyler]: excuse me

640
00:39:16,560 –> 00:39:20,480
[Byron Boston]: listen to us and we’re all in the same boat together and we’re happy and i want to

641
00:39:20,480 –> 00:39:24,560
[Byron Boston]: take care of my shareholders it’s very very important so please you know there is

642
00:39:24,640 –> 00:39:30,640
[Byron Boston]: a quarterly call that’s there i i urge people with annuities to look to diversify

643
00:39:30,880 –> 00:39:36,400
[Byron Boston]: with something like a nine x capital stock or a preferred stock and and we’re in

644
00:39:36,480 –> 00:39:38,480
[Byron Boston]: the same boat as all of our shareholders were

645
00:39:38,358 –> 00:39:39,358
[Paul Tyler]: so

646
00:39:38,560 –> 00:39:40,240
[Byron Boston]: dedicated to making their lives better

647
00:39:40,818 –> 00:39:44,098
[Paul Tyler]: okay hey listen great ramsey thanks byron thank you and

648
00:39:43,947 –> 00:39:44,947
[Ramsey Smith]: pleasure

649
00:39:44,258 –> 00:39:49,138
[Paul Tyler]: thanks to thanks all our listeners join us again next week for another episode of

650
00:39:49,198 –> 00:39:50,198
[Paul Tyler]: that annuity show

651
00:39:51,360 –> 00:39:52,480
[Byron Boston]: thank you for having me

652
00:39:52,487 –> 00:39:54,247
[Ramsey Smith]: alright appreciate it byron

The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly On Annuities In 401k Plans

March 15, 2022 2022, Media, Paul Tyler No comments

By Christopher Carosa, CTFA

You may love annuities. You may hate annuities. You may merely say “Meh” about annuities. Whatever the case, the discussion of placing annuities in retirements plans has increased over the last several years. Depending on what surveys you read, people either want the comfort of a “guaranteed” income stream in retirement, or they’re reluctant to risk all their retirement savings on one complicated product.

And, as a practical matter, in order to generate the kind of income that will yield enough money to pay typical retirement living expenses, you need far above the average retirement savings amount.

“Based on someone’s age, an annuity payout can be more or less,” says Erik Sussman, CEO of the Institute of Financial Wellness in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. “The older someone is, the more income the annuity will provide. Generally, you can receive approximately 6% from most annuities at age 65 and beyond, so for 100K it would be 6K a year, 400k it would be 24K a year, and for a million, 60k a year. There are many factors that determine an annuities payout, but this is a good rule of thumb.”

Bear in mind, recent data shows the typical 401k account holds less than $200K at retirement age. Can you live on $12,000 a year?

If the numbers don’t add up for annuities (or anything else, for that matter), where is the demand for these products coming from?

“I believe annuities become more popular in turbulent times, which certainly has been the case the past few years, continuing today with war being waged in Eastern Europe,” says Anthony C. Kure, Managing Director of Northeastern Ohio Market at Principal Wealth Management in Cleveland, Ohio. “The companies that offer annuities capitalize on the fear that comes from uncertain economic times when they roll out advertising for these products. It’s also for those who don’t want to manage their retirement, turning it over to an insurance company.”

Without a clear understanding of the actual income typically produced by annuities for the amount they’ve saved, retirement savers focus on other aspects of the products that sound more attractive.

“The demand for annuities in retirement plans is coming from the increase in life expectancy and the decrease in defined benefit pension plans,” says Sussman. “In essence, an annuity is a way to create your own defined benefit plan.”

In addition, regulators have been trending towards an annuity solution as a way to at least show the appearance of addressing issues important to retirement.

“Right now, policymakers are pushing it as a solution to mounting retirement crisis,” says Paul Tyler, CMO at Nassau Financial Group in Hartford, Connecticut. “As more people start to get income projections with their annual statements, they will increasingly ask for it.”

But can 401k plan participants trust what those “monthly project income” figures tell them?

“There are simply too many variables to accurately predict anyone’s income on a future basis,” says Scott Eichler, Founder of Standing Oak Advisors in Orange County, California. “It would be like asking someone to predict which pitches to a specific batter would result in home runs. You may guess correctly, but chances are low.”

In fact, the danger is these mandatory reporting figures can trick plan participants into thinking things are either too rosy or too dour.

Read the Full Article: https://fiduciarynews.com/2022/03/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-on-annuities-in-401k-plans/

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Episode 138: Sizing the Prize of Institutional Annuities with Martin Powell and Bruno Caron

March 10, 2022 2022, Bruno Caron, Martin Powell, Podcast, Retirement No comments

We opened our digital papers a few weeks ago to read an article in AM Best News entitled, “Annuity Providers See Growth Opportunity in US Retirement Plan Changes.” Who was quoted but none other than two regular guests – Martin Powell, Head of Annuity Distribution for CUNA Mutual and Bruno Caron Associate Director at AM Best. It’s a big prize. Even converting a small share of the $7.3 trillion in assets in 401(k) plans to annuities would prove transformational for the industry. We decided to “double click” on the article and bring in both experts to continue the discussion.

Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

https://news.ambest.com/newscontent.aspx?refnum=239183&altsrc=114

Martin Powell:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-powell-4790b01a/

Bruno Caron:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruno-caron-68a303/

Thank you to our show sponsor, CUNA Mutual!

Built on the principle of “people helping people,” CUNA Mutual Group is a financially strong insurance, investment and financial services company that believes a brighter financial future should be accessible to everyone. Through our company culture, community engagement, and products and solutions, we are working to create a more equitable financial system that helps to improve the lives of those we serve and our society. For more information, visit cun amutual.com/annuities.

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Transcript

1
00:00:01,094 –> 00:01:59,414

2
00:00:02,579 –> 00:00:07,699
[Paul Tyler]: Hi, this is Paul Tyler, and welcome to a. another episode of that annuity show

3
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[Paul Tyler]: and uh, uh, Mark Ramsey, good to see you.

4
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: as always great being here

5
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[Ramsey Smith]: Great to be here. Always

6
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, and uh, you know. every once in a while you know we. we see breaking news

7
00:00:20,259 –> 00:00:25,699
[Paul Tyler]: and we say Wow, look at this. Our, Our, The Our universes are colliding and Um.

8
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[Paul Tyler]: in um,

9
00:00:28,179 –> 00:00:33,779
[Paul Tyler]: uh, A Ms. news actually came across. Uh, recently released an article entitled

10
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[Paul Tyler]: The annuity providers see growth opportunity in U. S retirement Plan changes. We’ve

11
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[Paul Tyler]: been talking about the secure act. We’ve been talking about the opportunity in

12
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[Paul Tyler]: in, uh in in some of the the institutional retirement plans, And who’s ▁quoted.

13
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[Paul Tyler]: But we have a picture of Bruno Car and Bruno. welcome to a show.

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[Bruno Caron]: thank you great to be back here

15
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, D, no, lovely and uh, Martin Powell, uh, from CUNA Mutual, who is head of

16
00:01:02,579 –> 00:01:06,259
[Paul Tyler]: the Unity distribution. Martin, We got you on as well, Martin. Welcome.

17
00:01:06,640 –> 00:01:07,920
[Martin Powell]: to be back could seeing everybody

18
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, yeah, glad to have you. So two two regular, uh, guests now, Martin. you’re

19
00:01:13,379 –> 00:01:18,579
[Paul Tyler]: now regular on the show, Um, we, we’ll put that in our show notes. Um, but uh,

20
00:01:19,059 –> 00:01:22,579
[Paul Tyler]: uh, real interesting opportunity. thought it was timely to talk about. Only you

21
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[Paul Tyler]: know W. how big is this market going? How quick is it going to change? And and

22
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[Paul Tyler]: just generally you know where’s the annuity industry going Toead In the next you

23
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[Paul Tyler]: know, couple of quarters. Given all the turmoil. Um, so um, Ramsey. How kind ofl

24
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[Paul Tyler]: have you lead off? This is uh, an important area for you in a lot of focus.

25
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure,

26
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[Paul Tyler]: Um, where shall we start

27
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[Ramsey Smith]: so I think maybe the the biggest potential opportunity in the retirement

28
00:01:51,496 –> 00:01:57,096
[Ramsey Smith]: income space is with four one plans, so implant annuities and it’s an area

29
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[Ramsey Smith]: that’s been under developed for a variety of reasons. Part of it that uh

30
00:02:01,094 –> 00:03:59,414

31
00:02:01,976 –> 00:02:05,736
[Ramsey Smith]: hopefully has been cured by the advent of the secure act, But there’s still

32
00:02:05,816 –> 00:02:10,456
[Ramsey Smith]: a whole lot more work to do in the space and uh, so I was fascinated when I

33
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[Ramsey Smith]: saw this article that featured Uh. Bruno and Martin, You know, talking about

34
00:02:14,456 –> 00:02:17,976
[Ramsey Smith]: where what the potential is there. I think that’s I think it is. Uh. I think

35
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[Ramsey Smith]: is is the one place that might help to save the retirement income problem

36
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[Ramsey Smith]: that we have you know across the broadest possible audience. So uh, from my

37
00:02:25,736 –> 00:02:29,096
[Ramsey Smith]: perspective, this is this is. This may be the most most important mission of

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[Ramsey Smith]: the insurance industry. So Martin and Bruno, you guys are on the front

39
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[Ramsey Smith]: lines. Uh, and you know you know, Martin, You know you are. You run an annuity

40
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[Ramsey Smith]: distribution, So you, you know very much. What’s what’s Uh, You know what’s

41
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[Ramsey Smith]: on the horizon for Cuna Bruno. You have a fantastic perspective across the

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[Ramsey Smith]: industry In your role at a M. best, so we’re just we’re really looking

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[Ramsey Smith]: forward to hearing from both of you One. your perspectives on what you’re

44
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[Ramsey Smith]: seeing, and too, your perspective on where you think you’d like to see.

45
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[Ramsey Smith]: You’d like to see things go. So so Martin, why do we start with you and and

46
00:03:03,736 –> 00:03:07,416
[Ramsey Smith]: Martin? even though you were just on our last show? Please re, introduce

47
00:03:07,576 –> 00:03:10,936
[Ramsey Smith]: yourself a little bit. because we, we have the the benefit of doing back to

48
00:03:11,016 –> 00:03:12,536
[Ramsey Smith]: back recordings today, which has been great.

49
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[Martin Powell]: well thanks thanks for having me back and it’s martin powell i’m responsible for

50
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[Martin Powell]: annuity distribution for community cut a mutual group historically been focused

51
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[Martin Powell]: just on credit unions now’ outside with independent and bank broker dealers

52
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[Martin Powell]: selling our annuity products and uh we’re growing

53
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[Martin Powell]: to be a top twenty an new distributor in the country and we’re really bullish on

54
00:03:36,320 –> 00:03:40,720
[Martin Powell]: the annuity market because it really drives at our mission to help people get

55
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[Martin Powell]: access to a brighter financial future and

56
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[Martin Powell]: we really see that this

57
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[Martin Powell]: opportunity

58
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[Martin Powell]: to continue to grow not only through financial advisers because its annuities

59
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[Martin Powell]: today are sold through a financial advisor sitting face to face with somebody

60
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[Martin Powell]: who is near retirement or in retirement talking about income protection

61
00:04:01,094 –> 00:05:59,414

62
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[Martin Powell]: and as all of us on this call know that annuity is the only product in the world

63
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[Martin Powell]: that provides a personal pension and the best longevity insurance you can

64
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[Martin Powell]: get

65
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[Martin Powell]: but now introducing it to a four hundred one thousand plan it’s just powerful

66
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[Martin Powell]: especially if you can

67
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[Martin Powell]: you know similar to what they do now in four hundred one thousand plans they you

68
00:04:29,980 –> 00:04:30,980
[Martin Powell]: have to opt out

69
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[Martin Powell]: versus opt in and we’ve seen the numbers change dramatically with four four o one

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[Martin Powell]: k um

71
00:04:39,680 –> 00:04:44,720
[Martin Powell]: same thing here where you they can opt they need to opt out potentially of

72
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[Martin Powell]: getting annuity because once again people need this product and their portfolio

73
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[Martin Powell]: and it’s going to raise the awareness it’s gonna get more people educated

74
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[Martin Powell]: on protecting

75
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[Martin Powell]: their income stream and protecting against longevity so i think it’s really

76
00:05:03,360 –> 00:05:09,360
[Martin Powell]: exciting to see the development and for us as a company to work on our strategy

77
00:05:10,480 –> 00:05:15,360
[Martin Powell]: to ultimately at some point in time induce space as well to get not just with the

78
00:05:15,440 –> 00:05:20,560
[Martin Powell]: financial advisers but to ultimately get with the plan sponsors and the ultimate

79
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[Martin Powell]: employees

80
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[Martin Powell]: getting opportunities to protect their um retirement

81
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[Paul Tyler]: and Bruno Ramsey said, I love his declaration. The biggest opportunity that

82
00:05:31,939 –> 00:05:33,699
[Paul Tyler]: the annuity industry faces

83
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[Paul Tyler]: the next five to ten years, true or false,

84
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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true

85
00:05:41,097 –> 00:05:47,737
[Bruno Caron]: and uh you know definitely echoing ah Ramsey and and martin comments uh j just

86
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[Bruno Caron]: earlier and

87
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[Martin Powell]: no

88
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[Bruno Caron]: it it’s is nice for for us as as as rating analysts i mean obviously the the biggest

89
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[Bruno Caron]: product we offer at the

90
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[Bruno Caron]: but at the same time it is important for us

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00:06:01,094 –> 00:07:59,414

92
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[Bruno Caron]: you know to to always get back to fundamentals

93
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[Bruno Caron]: and

94
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

95
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[Bruno Caron]: you know we always we always in constant conversations with our colleagues on the

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[Bruno Caron]: on the pnc side and you know this whole concept of risk cooling is so fundamental

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[Bruno Caron]: and the you know most people i know uh will earn more in a year than the value of

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[Bruno Caron]: their car

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[Bruno Caron]: and that that’s just you know you know people who make fifty thousand dollars

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[Bruno Caron]: will most likely have a card that’s worth a little less than that uh a hundred

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[Bruno Caron]: thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars whatever your number is

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[Bruno Caron]: and yet people risk pool the risk of

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[Bruno Caron]: uh damaging their car if their car you know they have an accident and they have

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[Bruno Caron]: you know the risk pool that that risk through car insurance

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[Bruno Caron]: and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes

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[Bruno Caron]: you know think about earnings when it make sense to risk pool that the value of

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[Bruno Caron]: earnings you know if you outlive

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[Bruno Caron]: your your your life expectancy by one year

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[Bruno Caron]: two years a decade two decades uh

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[Bruno Caron]: doesn’t it make sense to have that type of risk pooling you know w within your

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[Bruno Caron]: retirement planning and i think the answer is yes i think you know to go back to

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[Bruno Caron]: your question

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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true i think it’s a huge opportunity the

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[Bruno Caron]: the insurance industry has you know at at the forefront and there’s been a lot of

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[Bruno Caron]: improvement there’s been a lot of development you mentioned so i think it’s it’s

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[Bruno Caron]: a very very exciting time for for lifetime income

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[Ramsey Smith]: So should we revisit this? this idea of opting versus opt out, because I

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[Ramsey Smith]: think it’s a very importantlynch in in whether or not this works. So so

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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin, you mentioned, Uh, opt out as being part of the future. Um,

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[Ramsey Smith]: how important do you think that is to the success of of impuities?

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[Ramsey Smith]: If if consumers can simply elect or or have to elect in order to get

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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income?

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[Ramsey Smith]: what kind of what kind of take rates would youpo More orders of magnitude,

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[Ramsey Smith]: not’ not looking for specific statistics, But how much of a difference do

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[Ramsey Smith]: you think it makes you know based on your your years of experience,

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[Martin Powell]: it makes a tremendous difference that if people

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[Martin Powell]: have tot out and go their way they’re going to be so much more successful of of

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[Martin Powell]: saving in their four one k plan and take advantage of the benefits of a form one

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[Martin Powell]: k and the same thing here um

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[Martin Powell]: they need to ensure

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[Martin Powell]: their income for your life and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: alright good morning everybody

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[Martin Powell]: great analogy about car insurance right

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh

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[Martin Powell]: there’s no opt out or apt in based on your f i mean many people

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: on

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[Martin Powell]: financially

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh one

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[Martin Powell]: they they they have to get car insurance right it’s not you can’t

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[Martin Powell]: go down

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i

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[Martin Powell]: to a state

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[Martin Powell]: so it’s just it’s it’s so important that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: s

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[Martin Powell]: you know the

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: trees

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[Martin Powell]: the power of insurance

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[Martin Powell]: is is pooling pulling your wrist

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[Martin Powell]: and y you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: got to educate people on it so i i opted out to me is

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[Martin Powell]: is the game changer here and it really

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[Ramsey Smith]: So

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[Martin Powell]: sobs it solves the

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[Martin Powell]: the uh the pension crisis in this country

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[Paul Tyler]: Yp.

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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social

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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social

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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?

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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?

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[Ramsey Smith]: Actuallyly, just opt

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[Martin Powell]: that’s right

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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re in. right,

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[Martin Powell]: exactly where in

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[Ramsey Smith]: not optional, right, uh,

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[Ramsey Smith]: the, the the find define pension benefit plans when they existed like you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: know, optional, y or nay,

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[Ramsey Smith]: nay,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: right

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[Martin Powell]: yes

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[Ramsey Smith]: right.

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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[Ramsey Smith]: So arguably those are the two most successful, at least two of the most

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[Ramsey Smith]: successful retirement income. Uh, sort of Uh platforms

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you

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[Ramsey Smith]: right. So D v plans obviously are being phased out, but they have been

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[Ramsey Smith]: successful in their

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: your

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[Ramsey Smith]: lifetime. They have successfully achieved what they’re supposed to do as a

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[Ramsey Smith]: social security. So they, they all have in common is common

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: okay

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[Ramsey Smith]: is that they’re they’re mandatory. And so

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: you know, to your point, Martin, it’s hard to see how how imple annuities

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[Ramsey Smith]: are going to

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[Ramsey Smith]: be successful. I think it’s either going to be binary area, they fail

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[Ramsey Smith]: completely. arere going to be very successful.

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[Ramsey Smith]: And And and it’s probably because they will. They will. precisely this

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[Ramsey Smith]: reason that you’ve highlighted that they will be uh, not optional.

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[Paul Tyler]: well, let’s play it forward, Ramsey.

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[Ramsey Smith]: Mhm,

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[Paul Tyler]: let’s assume a world where

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[Paul Tyler]: it is there’. It’s opt

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: there’s a

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[Paul Tyler]: out or it’s you have no choice. Um, let’s say, let’s let’s say it mirrors the

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[Paul Tyler]: four K. It’s an opt out type situation. I know Marin, Bru, Mark I, what is this

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[Paul Tyler]: do for the individual advisor? Help hurt

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[Paul Tyler]: the the sale of individual anuities,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i i personally think long term yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: i think it helps all at all else being equal regardless of the shape or form of

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[Bruno Caron]: you know you know the that relationship the conversation whatever it is

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[Bruno Caron]: people will need some sort of advice people will

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[Bruno Caron]: we’ll need

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[Bruno Caron]: advice in one

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: let’s see

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[Bruno Caron]: way or another now this may you know this may challenge you know

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: but yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: the current environment that it may or may it may not it remains to be seen

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[Bruno Caron]: but that that advice that thinking that’s shopping i mean you know

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: what

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[Bruno Caron]: there’s a lot of value added there to to have that that knowledge and the average

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: person doesn’t necessarily have that

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[Bruno Caron]: you know that

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[Bruno Caron]: that knowledge and that goes back to your original you know discussion on opt in

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[Bruno Caron]: opt out you know i always think of myself

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[Bruno Caron]: buying things where i’m not i’m you know i’m not an expert it’s not something i

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[Ramsey Smith]: Think might no buying

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[Bruno Caron]: think about every day

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very

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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very

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[Ramsey Smith]: every day and

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[Bruno Caron]: is very important

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes

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[Bruno Caron]: and it really

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[Bruno Caron]: you know it really guides without even knowing um but at the end of the day that

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[Ramsey Smith]: guled

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[Bruno Caron]: that that knowledge

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: is

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: he

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[Bruno Caron]: is is is key

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i agree i mean i think

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, more.

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the key i think the key is really the educational process going into it because

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: even if you think about outside of the qualified plan marketplace and look at

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: look at the hurdle with advisors in terms of changing the mindset from an

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: accumulation focus strategy to a distribution focus strategy and that challenge

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: still ongoing in terms of you know how to how to put that right structure in

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: place and then you bring it now to the consumer level that it has always looked

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: at four hundred one k plans as purely an accumulation strategy i think the key is

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: really going to be number one educating up front making sure

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that that they understand the value behind that and to Ramsey’s point that the

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[Bruno Caron]: oh

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: successful programs that are you know not opted in and guaranteed you know have

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: been really the the foot sholes of of successful retirement over the years

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i think the other interesting challenge is and it’s always been interesting to to

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see the disconnect that people have as it relates to what the equitable income

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: lifetime income is from an accumulated asset and i think it’s really important to

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: make sure that people understand going into it the value of that in terms of what

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: this projection can generate going down the road and the key is going to be that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: point of of education up front i think

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, Mar, Martin, I got a friend, Uh, a call from a friend of mine who actually

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: um

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[Paul Tyler]: retired from at life and said, Oh, Paul, uh, you actually made it. He was on the

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[Paul Tyler]: Def Benefit and he got his pension. he said, Oh, I just got this forum telling

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[Paul Tyler]: me how much money I’m going to. This converts into what are? Are you see? Any

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so

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[Paul Tyler]: advisers? Taking advantage of this is an opportunity to go and talk to people

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[Paul Tyler]: about an noities,

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[Martin Powell]: i i had not had any opportunity or or been told by any

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

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[Martin Powell]: advisor about them

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: never

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[Martin Powell]: take the opportunity to go out but

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that

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[Martin Powell]: when you you think about

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[Martin Powell]: you know ten million households control probably ninety plus percent of the

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[Martin Powell]: wealth in this country right and that’s primarily where financial advisors are

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[Martin Powell]: all right there’s a hundred and thirty million households in this country so this

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[Martin Powell]: think now if they have an annuity

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[Martin Powell]: for more people have four hundred one ks because we’re making them opt out just

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[Martin Powell]: think the need for the

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[Ramsey Smith]: be

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[Martin Powell]: advice one

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[Martin Powell]: now you’re not working anymore and you gotta climb down the mountain with your

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[Martin Powell]: accumulation

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[Martin Powell]: it’s just gonna right raise the tide and need for advice

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[Martin Powell]: so i i just

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[Martin Powell]: it’s it’s just exciting that it’s gonna it’s gonna raise the need for advice

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[Paul Tyler]: Okay, w. one of my first jobs was a management consultant. So Bruno, I’m very

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[Paul Tyler]: good at slides and Marin. I’m really good at spreadsheets. Him. Say anything

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[Bruno Caron]: what specific

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[Paul Tyler]: right, so the article says,

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[Paul Tyler]: Seven point three trillion dollars, or sitting there in the four o one k market

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[Paul Tyler]: Marin. I’ve got a plan to get you to. I’m going to get two percent of that

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[Paul Tyler]: market

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[Bruno Caron]: what

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[Paul Tyler]: for your company. Uh, is this an opportunity when you, when you size this thing

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[Paul Tyler]: out, Is this a a

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[Paul Tyler]: crawl, walk, or or a run imperative for most Uh, nodity companies today you’re

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[Paul Tyler]: not not speaking for Ka, but speaking for you know, your the colleagues, your

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[Paul Tyler]: colls cross the across the country.

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[Martin Powell]: i i i think it’s a initial crawl

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[Martin Powell]: f for us and and its probably part of our

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[Martin Powell]: our dna

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[Martin Powell]: to get to get it right you know just because we’re in the in the business of of

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[Martin Powell]: risk so i think it’ll be a crawl and an acceleration in in

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[Martin Powell]: if you just think about products like somebody’s got to go take the risk and they

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[Martin Powell]: see the success we all come in

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[Martin Powell]: and develop and innovate and bring products and we and then finally it becomes a

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[Martin Powell]: market and we start innovating back and forth between the companies a competitive

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[Martin Powell]: perspective so that’s what i see happening here

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[Paul Tyler]: Ramsey should be a really fast crawl.

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[Martin Powell]: eight

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[Ramsey Smith]: Um. I, I think it should be, but I’m I’m biased. Uh, I think I think there

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[Ramsey Smith]: will be people that are

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[Ramsey Smith]: the

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[Martin Powell]: picture

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[Ramsey Smith]: leaders and the people that are that are fast followers and people that that

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[Ramsey Smith]: are that are happy coming sort of further back and everybody has their own.

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[Ramsey Smith]: You know reasons for that. Uh, I. I. I do think that we

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[Ramsey Smith]: just need to make sure that we have some leaders. Some folks that are that

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[Ramsey Smith]: are getting the Uh. getting the ball rolling be cause. it’s a. It’s actually

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[Ramsey Smith]: a complicated business. It’s way more than just a product. Be cause once as

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[Ramsey Smith]: soon as you bring it into a four o one K. You say All right. Well if I bring

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[Ramsey Smith]: it into a four o one K.

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[Ramsey Smith]: Probably it’s not stand alone. Probably it’s it’s embedded in a in a target

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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund, So all the you know, all the products have been offered so far,

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[Ramsey Smith]: Including the one Martin that you mentioned usually are it’s a. It’s a

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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income product or annuity embedded in a target

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund. Says structure around that. there’s an entire protocol with the

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[Ramsey Smith]: way that the various members of the four one K

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[Ramsey Smith]: ecosystem have to communicate with each other. So record keepers, in this

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and we cg but somebody else

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[Ramsey Smith]: case a carer, An asset manager is probably a fiduciary, or too involved. So

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[Ramsey Smith]: its actually,

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: if you know is there suggested

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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s actually much more than a product sale. It is a

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like me

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[Ramsey Smith]: platform sale, And that, so, from my perspective is that everybody should be

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[Ramsey Smith]: figuring out the platform part now, because the product parts the easy part.

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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[Paul Tyler]: Y platform is really interesting, Ramsy, Bruno. You know how many hundreds of of

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[Paul Tyler]: successful the nody companies are there today, Because you know, we, we sell

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[Paul Tyler]: through thousands of advisers, Right, hundreds of different distribution

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[Paul Tyler]: channels.

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[Paul Tyler]: How many how many players you think can occupy and actually be successful in

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[Paul Tyler]: space? Is that five or ten is twenty? Is it you know? is there a limit?

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[Bruno Caron]: all right

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[Bruno Caron]: the the the markets will dictate those those limits i i think there’s room for a

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[Bruno Caron]: lot you you you

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[Bruno Caron]: mentioned it that seven point three trillion dollars there’s room out there for

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah that’s what i speak

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[Bruno Caron]: you know for for many players

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[Bruno Caron]: for some competition in for for an actual market

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[Bruno Caron]: to Ramsey’s point

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[Bruno Caron]: everything in in retirement planning has to be part of a comprehensive plan and

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[Bruno Caron]: it’s not just about you know market risk longevity risk inflation risk it’s its

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[Bruno Caron]: about all of the above and um you know i i think that you know some of those

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[Bruno Caron]: risks and and some of those uh considerations have been that it have been studied

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[Bruno Caron]: have you know and are available you know to to the consumers

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[Bruno Caron]: it’s that part on on on lifetime income that i believe is lacking currently is it

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[Bruno Caron]: gonna be a fast crawl

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[Bruno Caron]: we we we certainly can hope for it and uh

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

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[Bruno Caron]: but but but i think it’s it’s it’s on it’s on all of us to to make sure that you

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[Bruno Caron]: know a crisis doesn’t happen in

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[Bruno Caron]: twenty years where you know all all of a sudden you know people just keep on

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[Bruno Caron]: waking up in the morning

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[Bruno Caron]: very old and you just ran out of money

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[Bruno Caron]: we don’t need to wait for that to happen and we can act

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[Bruno Caron]: and i think we can do that as a as an industry

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[Bruno Caron]: but

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[Bruno Caron]: exciting times to say the least

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, well, we’re near the end of our time mark. final last question. thoughts

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[Paul Tyler]: on the topic

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i guess two thoughts number one bruno have you seen any kind of modeling

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like allocation modeling programs out there that that individuals can work with

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and second do you think that we’ll see an evolution similar to what we have on

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the individual annuity side with income writers kind of being the first

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: leg of this but then all all of a sudden you see care benefits coming out of it

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and death benefits coming on to it you think you’ll see the similar evolution

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: from that standpoint

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[Bruno Caron]: on your first question

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[Bruno Caron]: yes there are like th those those tools out there uh you know and i think

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[Bruno Caron]: i i think of of those tools as not necessarily a silver bullett but it it is

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[Bruno Caron]: something that really helps you

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[Bruno Caron]: develop a comprehensive plan

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[Bruno Caron]: ask the right questions

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[Ramsey Smith]: The

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[Bruno Caron]: make sure that as a

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[Bruno Caron]: consumer you don’t get blank

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[Ramsey Smith]: make sure that at

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00:21:26,377 –> 00:21:29,897
[Bruno Caron]: sided by something you haven’t thought about so i i definitely

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00:21:26,616 –> 00:21:28,696
[Ramsey Smith]: you get like, by and by something.

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[Ramsey Smith]: So I

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00:21:30,217 –> 00:21:35,577
[Bruno Caron]: encourage you everyone to use those tools and some of the guests that you’ve had

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00:21:35,737 –> 00:21:40,937
[Bruno Caron]: on the on the show have have developed their their own and you know with uh with

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[Bruno Caron]: with with with multiple um

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00:21:43,817 –> 00:21:47,817
[Bruno Caron]: other other peers so yes they’re out there and yes i believe

404
00:21:47,516 –> 00:21:48,516
[Ramsey Smith]: there?

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00:21:48,057 –> 00:21:52,857
[Bruno Caron]: there’s going to be uh more uh more more coming and yes they are

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[Bruno Caron]: they are very helpful

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[Bruno Caron]: uh on your

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[Bruno Caron]: you know on on your on your second questions

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[Bruno Caron]: yes i i you know i believe there there is capacity there

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[Bruno Caron]: i do believe that market is going to to to grow and

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[Bruno Caron]: and evolve

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[Bruno Caron]: you know there’s appetite

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[Bruno Caron]: on both sides you know there is appetite for for capital intensive business

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[Bruno Caron]: there is all those fixed income assets that are that are ready to be to be

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[Bruno Caron]: deployed

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[Bruno Caron]: so i think everything is is out there for

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[Bruno Caron]: for for for success

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: great thank you

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[Paul Tyler]: Ramsy.

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you

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[Ramsey Smith]: uh, so yeah,

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[Ramsey Smith]: I, uh. I’ll say it again. I think this is the. I think

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[Martin Powell]: one

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[Ramsey Smith]: this is the biggest opportunity that we have right now. Uh, I think it is an

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[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity for the industry, I think is an opportunity for America. Most

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[Ramsey Smith]: importantly,

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[Ramsey Smith]: and

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[Ramsey Smith]: I, we just need people to of put themselves out there and try and make it

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[Ramsey Smith]: work. They’ already, by our count, by our teams, count eight or nine

430
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[Ramsey Smith]: offerings right up up and running. Um,

431
00:23:13,976 –> 00:23:18,056
[Ramsey Smith]: some have made announcements, but uh, not clear that products have been

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00:23:14,046 –> 00:23:15,166

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[Ramsey Smith]: filed yet. It’s still early days. It’s still very early days and I think

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[Ramsey Smith]: that uh

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[Ramsey Smith]: people that jump out in front and learn how to navigate what is a very very

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[Ramsey Smith]: different distribution channel. Early, Um, will put themselves in a position

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[Ramsey Smith]: to succeed in a market to Bruno’s point, That is big enough for a lot of

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[Ramsey Smith]: players.

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[Bruno Caron]: it is

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah is great, Uh, Martin. thanks for joining us and thanks for sharing your

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00:23:42,579 –> 00:23:45,779
[Paul Tyler]: perspective. If people want to get in touch with what, what’s the best way for

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00:23:45,939 –> 00:23:47,699
[Paul Tyler]: for people to uh, reach out to you?

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[Martin Powell]: you can reach me martin dpu at kuntu dot com

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[Paul Tyler]: Excellent. All right,

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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin. Great to have you back again

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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,

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[Ramsey Smith]: and twice

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[Martin Powell]: it could be back yes

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[Bruno Caron]: let’s listen

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00:23:57,016 –> 00:23:58,296
[Ramsey Smith]: double trouble awesome.

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00:23:58,339 –> 00:24:02,579
[Paul Tyler]: thanks and and burn up for you. best way to reach. Uh, reach you.

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[Bruno Caron]: same emails good linkedin’s good um

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[Bruno Caron]: so they’re

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00:24:10,137 –> 00:24:16,777
[Bruno Caron]: bruno backing at aves plus the the linkedin’s always there um anytime

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[Paul Tyler]: Okay. great, and we’ll also put a a link to your book again. Everybody should

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00:24:22,019 –> 00:24:26,739
[Paul Tyler]: buy the book and and read it if they uh want to understand how this market works

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[Paul Tyler]: with the opportunity, Thanks so much, Martin Bruno thinks everybody thans our

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00:24:30,579 –> 00:24:34,819
[Paul Tyler]: listeners, and Uh join Skin next week for another episode of that annuity show.

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[Bruno Caron]: thank you

The Intuition for Reverse Mortgages

March 7, 2022 2022, Media, Wade Pfau No comments

The following is excerpted from chapter 1 of Wade Pfau’s newly revised book, Reverse Mortgages: How to Use Reverse Mortgages to Secure Your Retirement. It is available at Amazon and other leading retailers.

Understanding how reverse mortgages can add value in retirement planning requires an understanding about the peculiarities of sequence-of-return risk that the reverse mortgage can help to manage. When combined with a long retirement, sequence-of-return risk can lead to some potentially unanticipated outcomes regarding what types of strategies may work to support retirement sustainability. Sequence-of-return risk is a fascinating concept in that minor spending tweaks can have major implications for portfolio sustainability by impacting the amount of investment wealth that remains at the end of the planning horizon. This is the intuition I hope to help you develop in this section, as this will be key to recognizing why the later analysis of reverse mortgages in Chapters 5 to 8 works and is not “too good to be true.”

We proceed by examining these peculiarities using an example from the historical data that will serve as a baseline for comparing different reverse mortgage strategies later in the book. In the case study detailed further in Chapter 5, a 62-year-old recently retired couple is working to create a retirement plan that will support their budget for 34 years through age 95. We will consider a simplified version of that case study in which the couple has $1 million of investment assets in a Roth IRA and is seeking to spend $39,485 per year plus inflation throughout their retirement with a balanced investment portfolio of 60 percent stocks and 40 percent bonds. This spending goal is chosen because it will cause their investment assets to deplete fully after covering their spending at age 95, using the market returns from 1962 to 1995.

Because the risk that a market downturn pushes the current withdrawal rate from remaining investments to an unsustainable level, the first sequence-risk synergy to note is that small changes to the initial withdrawal rate can have a large impact on portfolio sustainability. This situation is illustrated in Exhibit 1.3. With an initial withdrawal rate of 3.95 percent, the portfolio is depleted in 1995. The exhibit also shows portfolio sustainability for small withdrawal rate changes: 3.55 percent (-0.4 percent less), 3.75 percent (-0.2 percent less), 4.15 percent (0.2 percent more), and 4.35 percent (0.4 percent more).

Read the full article, here: https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2022/03/03/the-intuition-for-reverse-mortgages

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Regulators Wary Of Disruptions To Hot RILA Market With New Rules

March 7, 2022 2022, David Hanzlik, Media No comments

By John Hilton

Concerns over how much disruption to introduce to the thriving market for indexed-linked variable annuity products dominated a regulator subgroup call today.

The Indexed Linked Variable Annuity subgroup is attempting to tweak nonforfeiture rules to better fit the unique ILVA products, also known as registered indexed-linked annuities or structured annuities.

The subgroup developed an actuarial guideline for technical changes to ILVA values that would bring the products in line with traditional VAs. Industry groups suggested several changes and are most concerned with disruption to markets.

“CUNA Mutual has been serving consumers in the ILVA space for over eight years and our experience shows ILVAs are an incredibly impactful tool in helping middle market customers create guaranteed retirement income,” wrote David Hanzlik, vice president, annuity and retirement solutions for CUNA. “We take pride in helping those who make a modest income.”

But Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice, questioned why regulators would accommodate continued sales of products they deem problematic for consumers.

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Annuity Payments Don’t Make Your Retirement: They Make It Better

March 7, 2022 2022, Jerry Golden, Media No comments

Why do annuity payments belong in a plan for retirement income?

There is a very simple answer: Retirees who have annuity payments feel more confident about their long-term finances in retirement.

It seems obvious to someone like me, who is an actuary by training and spent most of my later career in the retirement business. That confidence comes because an annuity payment is similar to Social Security or a pension in one important respect: They all provide a lifetime of guaranteed income.

Since annuity payments are guaranteed under contracts issued typically by highly rated insurance companies, in my view retirees or near-retirees with a reasonable life expectancy should at least consider them as an important source of retirement income. However, according to one survey, a relatively low percentage of retirees — fewer than 15% — make annuity payments part of their retirement income plans.

So, let’s discuss the objections and questions that consumers often have about annuity payments, the contracts that guarantee those payments, and the reasons annuity payments belong in a plan.

Where the confusion comes in with annuities

Today, the annuity landscape is quite competitive and often confusing to average investors. There are many types of annuities. They can be grouped in various ways:

Accumulation or income.
Fixed, variable or indexed.
With or without downside protection.
Current or future annuitized income.

I take some responsibility for changing the annuity landscape, having invented the first annuity that could be categorized as accumulation/variable/downside protection/future annuitized income.

Unfortunately, contracts providing guaranteed annuity payments often get lumped together with other annuities, and that’s where the confusion creeps in. It’s just like with insurance: Car insurance is not the same as life insurance, health insurance or dental insurance. So, you should look at each annuity based on its stated purpose and not whether it shares a name with another product. One type of annuity might be just right for you, while others might not be a good fit.

The rest of this article is about annuity contracts whose sole purpose is to provide lifetime annuity payments — starting now or at a date in the future you select. Let’s start with a few questions I’ve gotten from readers like you.

Q: Do annuity payments increase with inflation?

A: In some contracts, annuity payments increase over time, but most do not. Those contracts that do provide payments that grow with inflation tend to have a starting annuity payment that is 20% to 30% lower than a contract with fixed, level payments. Inflation protection is not cheap.

Of course, the question about purchasing power and inflation is timely with what’s going on in the U.S. and elsewhere. The Labor Department announced in early February that inflation hit a 40-year high, with consumer prices jumping 7.5% compared with last year. If you relied on annuity payments for all your income, the value lost to inflation would be a major problem. But your retirement income plan shouldn’t look like that.

Read the full article: https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/annuities/604254/annuity-payments-dont-make-your-retirement-they-make-it-better

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Episode 137: Reducing the Risk of A Reduction in Social Security Benefits With David Duley

March 3, 2022 2022, David Duley, Podcast No comments

Few days go by without a mention in the media about the potential financial crisis faced in the next 10+ years by the Social Security system. In 2034, the surplus in trust funds is expected to be depleted. How will our government respond? Today, we speak about this challenge with David Duley, CEO and Founder of PlanGap. PlanGap empower insurers and reinsurers help consumers sleep better at night with the knowledge that their Social Security is protected.

Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-duley-ab7528/

https://plangap.com/

Thank you to our show sponsor; The Index Standard!

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Episode 136: Tackling Unconscious Bias with Martin Powell and Gina Riepel

February 25, 2022 2022, DEI, Martin Powell, Podcast No comments

We’re all fortunate to work in an industry with a wonderful mission. How do we create more opportunities for people of color to experience the same rewards. That’s the topic of today’s conversation with Martin Powell, Head of Annuity Distribution and Gina Riepel Director of Strategic Accounts at CUNA Mutual Group.

Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.

We hope you enjoy the show.

Links mentioned today:

Martin Powell:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-powell-4790b01a/

https://portfolio.bisanet.org/Article/providing-inclusivity-and-confronting-unconscious-bias

Gina Riepel:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gina-riepel-a0588741/

Industry Associations:

https://www.bisanet.org/page/Diversity

https://portfolio.bisanet.org/Article/providing-inclusivity-and-confronting-unconscious-bias

Thank you to our show sponsors, CUNA Mutual!

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Transcript

1
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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler with another episode of that annuity show and uh in our

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[Paul Tyler]: virtual studio we have mark fitzgerald joining us after a long series of road

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[Paul Tyler]: trips mark it’s great to have you back

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: Paul, its great to be back

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[Paul Tyler]: a

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[Paul Tyler]: ramsey as always his pleasure

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[Ramsey Smith]: yep

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[Paul Tyler]: and we have two really special guests with us today from kina mutual who’s also

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[Paul Tyler]: been a sponsor of our show we appreciate it but also doing some really

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[Paul Tyler]: interesting things to change

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[Paul Tyler]: not just products but change really who’s involved and who’s really driving the

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[Paul Tyler]: industry in the future and i’d like to welcome martin powell head of an nudity

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[Paul Tyler]: distribution at kuni mutual group and his colleague gina repel director of

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[Paul Tyler]: strategic accounts at

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Paul Tyler]: cuna mutual group martin and gina welcome

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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: thank you

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[Martin Powell]: thanks for

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[Paul Tyler]: hey thank

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[Martin Powell]: good to be back

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: makes about

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[Paul Tyler]: hey hey thanks and so topic of the day is really

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[Paul Tyler]: hey hey thanks and so topic of the day is really

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[Paul Tyler]: it’s black history month

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[Paul Tyler]: what does that really mean in

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[Ramsey Smith]: sixties

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[Paul Tyler]: terms of diversity equity inclusion and

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[Ramsey Smith]: and

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[Paul Tyler]: what should it

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[Ramsey Smith]: what should

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[Paul Tyler]: mean for the industry ramsey um how would you wanna how do you think we should

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[Paul Tyler]: kick this off

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[Ramsey Smith]: so look i think

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you got so

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[Ramsey Smith]: so so the three of us myself martin and gina have have committed

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[Ramsey Smith]: a meaningful all or a meaningful portion of our careers

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that would be proportion

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[Ramsey Smith]: the to the insurance industry and i think i’m sure sure they found it as

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[Ramsey Smith]: rewarding as i have and at the same time we see that there’s if you look at the

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[Ramsey Smith]: if you look at the populations that are served by the insurance industry

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[Ramsey Smith]: you can see scope for expanded presence for more folks of african american

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: descent to be in various positions in the industry so

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[Ramsey Smith]: i’m fortunate enough to serve on the board uh of

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: four

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[Ramsey Smith]: a major insurance company

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[Ramsey Smith]: and i have had the pleasure had the pleasure of building a business in the

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: business

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[Ramsey Smith]: on the distribution side and you know

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and uh

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[Ramsey Smith]: each of us has our own journey and i guess it would be very interesting to find

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: a co dr because

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[Ramsey Smith]: out from martin and gina you know what what drew you to this industry first and

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: what do this industry

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[Ramsey Smith]: foremost tell us your story and then on the back of that it would be very

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[Paul Tyler]: on the back of that

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i never thought

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[Ramsey Smith]: interesting to hear what you think it will take to bring more people of color

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[Ramsey Smith]: into the space so gina

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Ramsey Smith]: why don’t we

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[Ramsey Smith]: don’t we start with you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: he wants

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[Gina Riepel]: Um,

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[Gina Riepel]: okay,

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[Paul Tyler]: okay great thank you for having week and

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[Gina Riepel]: great,

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[Ramsey Smith]: great thank you for

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: okay great uh thank you for having me and

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[Gina Riepel]: Um, thank you for having me, And you know I started in this industry over

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[Ramsey Smith]: thirty years ago

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[Gina Riepel]: thirty years ago and I started in a in at at

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[Paul Tyler]: actually

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[Gina Riepel]: a bank, Actually on the

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[Paul Tyler]: my years

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[Gina Riepel]: teller line and moved on to opening new

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[Ramsey Smith]: account

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[Gina Riepel]: accounts and just

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[Gina Riepel]: kind of

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

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[Ramsey Smith]: kind of really started saying that people know a lot about investing

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[Gina Riepel]: really started to

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[Paul Tyler]: that

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[Gina Riepel]: see that you know people

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[Paul Tyler]: know a lot about

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[Gina Riepel]: didn’t know a lot about investing.

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[Paul Tyler]: they never they

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[Gina Riepel]: Um, they didn’t really understand it. and they came into the bank looking for

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[Gina Riepel]: help and for a solution.

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[Ramsey Smith]: and so

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[Gina Riepel]: And so

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[Paul Tyler]: did not

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[Gina Riepel]: you know, I did that

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[Gina Riepel]: while I was in college, and then

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[Ramsey Smith]: i was in college and then i was fortunate and have to you know go on to a mutual

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[Paul Tyler]: she

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[Gina Riepel]: I was fortunate enough to you know, move on to a mutual fund company where I

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[Ramsey Smith]: fun where i have to learn a little bit more about investments and really taking

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[Gina Riepel]: got to learn a little bit more about investments and really taking it to the

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[Ramsey Smith]: it to the next level of providing financial securities to to everyone it’s my

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[Gina Riepel]: next level and providing financial securities, um to to everyone,

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[Paul Tyler]: i really fascinated by that i really

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[Gina Riepel]: And so I just I was really fascinated by that, you know, but I really consider

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[Ramsey Smith]: chest because was really fascinated by that you that i really could

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[Gina Riepel]: myself lucky because I

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[Gina Riepel]: had no

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[Ramsey Smith]: i had no idea what

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah but i mean

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[Gina Riepel]: idea what a mutual fund Um

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[Paul Tyler]: what like

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[Ramsey Smith]: was when i

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[Gina Riepel]: was when I joined Um.

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[Paul Tyler]: american capital back in nineteen ninety yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: on american capital back in nineteen ninety and i was fortunate that i had people

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[Gina Riepel]: American Capital back in nineteen ninety and I was fortunate that I had. um.

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[Gina Riepel]: you know, people kind of show me the way

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[Ramsey Smith]: kind showing away and help me realize how important it is to provide financial

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[Paul Tyler]: and help me realize how important it is to

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[Gina Riepel]: and help me realize how important it is to provide financial

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[Ramsey Smith]: security

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[Paul Tyler]: degree of

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[Gina Riepel]: security, um

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[Gina Riepel]: to to people.

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[Ramsey Smith]: to to people and so i just kind of grew up in the business right and we

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[Paul Tyler]: so

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[Gina Riepel]: And so I just kind of grew up in the business, right. I knew nothing about it,

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[Ramsey Smith]: remembered about it but i learned about it and had like different opportunities

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[Gina Riepel]: but I learned about it and had just you know, different opportunities, And I

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[Ramsey Smith]: and i think that really happens to me

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[Gina Riepel]: think

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[Paul Tyler]: really

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[Gina Riepel]: what really happened for me is, I

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[Ramsey Smith]: from people that were willing to give me a chance right i didn’t look like

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[Gina Riepel]: found people that were willing to give me a chance,

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[Paul Tyler]: right i didn’t

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[Gina Riepel]: Right, I didn’t

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i didn’t any

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[Gina Riepel]: look like anybody, Um on our

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[Ramsey Smith]: anybody um on our team i didn’t look like anyone at the field but um i found

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[Paul Tyler]: i didn’t

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[Gina Riepel]: team. I didn’t look like anyone

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[Paul Tyler]: feel

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[Gina Riepel]: out in the field,

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[Gina Riepel]: but Um, I found someone and or people that just saw

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[Paul Tyler]: um i found

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[Ramsey Smith]: someone and every i saw something in me that i didn’t

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: just

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[Gina Riepel]: something in me that I didn’t know that I had, and the passion that I have for

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[Gina Riepel]: providing

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[Ramsey Smith]: in the country just the passion i have for this business and so for the change

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[Gina Riepel]: financial security, just a passion I have for this business. And so

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so

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[Gina Riepel]: you know they took a chance on me and Um taught me the ropes and I and I’m sor.

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[Gina Riepel]: you know they took a chance on me and Um taught me the ropes and I and I’m sor.

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Ramsey Smith]: then i and i’m so martin take a chance on me and and give me opportunities that i

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[Gina Riepel]: You know, I have people like Martin that still take a chance on me and give me

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[Gina Riepel]: You know, I have people like Martin that still take a chance on me and give me

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[Gina Riepel]: opportunities that I wouldn’t have normally had Um in my career, And so I’m

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[Gina Riepel]: opportunities that I wouldn’t have normally had Um in my career, And so I’m

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[Ramsey Smith]: wouldn’t have normally had

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[Paul Tyler]: in my career like

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[Ramsey Smith]: in my career i’m just i feel like that’s kind of what we need to do

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[Gina Riepel]: just I feel like that’s kind of what we need to do for the next generation. Is

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[Gina Riepel]: just I feel like that’s kind of what we need to do for the next generation. Is

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: christmas

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[Gina Riepel]: we have to be willing to take a chance on people and and teach them, and Um,

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[Gina Riepel]: we have to be willing to take a chance on people and and teach them, and Um,

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[Paul Tyler]: he

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[Gina Riepel]: show them this business and what what it really means and what we’re doing, Um

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[Gina Riepel]: show them this business and what what it really means and what we’re doing, Um

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Gina Riepel]: for people. So I mean that’s I just grew up, I just I, I love it. I just I

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[Gina Riepel]: for people. So I mean that’s I just grew up, I just I, I love it. I just I

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah i just

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you have school

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[Paul Tyler]: i i i love it i i can’t imagine i

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[Gina Riepel]: can’t imagine I talked to Martin about this all the time. like I can’t imagine

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[Gina Riepel]: can’t imagine I talked to Martin about this all the time. like I can’t imagine

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[Gina Riepel]: doing anything else. I feel like I was born to to do this. It’s it’s easy for

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[Gina Riepel]: doing anything else. I feel like I was born to to do this. It’s it’s easy for

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[Ramsey Smith]: else

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[Ramsey Smith]: to

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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s easy for me um

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[Gina Riepel]: me. Um, so I, I just love it.

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[Gina Riepel]: me. Um, so I, I just love it.

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[Paul Tyler]: what

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[Ramsey Smith]: martin you’re up

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[Martin Powell]: i started this business summer time as jean in nineteen ninety a financial

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[Martin Powell]: advisor for met life and what drew me into the business was the opportunity

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[Martin Powell]: to to help families

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[Martin Powell]: um

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[Martin Powell]: around life insurance

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[Martin Powell]: and when you deliver your first check it really hits home on the power

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[Martin Powell]: of this business

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[Martin Powell]: and also as an advisor or gave me an opportunity to educate uh people of color

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[Martin Powell]: and women

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[Martin Powell]: around um

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: preparing for the certainty and life of uncertainty and that’s something that’s

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[Martin Powell]: very very purposeful

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[Ramsey Smith]: whatever

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[Martin Powell]: and made me feel very very good

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[Paul Tyler]: you

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[Martin Powell]: to to be in this business

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[Martin Powell]: to continue to

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[Martin Powell]: help

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[Paul Tyler]: great

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[Martin Powell]: as as you uh go through this journey and and as i travel through my journey and

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[Martin Powell]: meeting uh great people like gina and and others yourself ramsay paul

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[Martin Powell]: the great thing about

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[Martin Powell]: what i feel

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[Martin Powell]: makes me drive every single morning it’s my duty to help people of color and

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[Martin Powell]: women

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[Martin Powell]: learn about this business and learn how

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[Martin Powell]: you can create generational wealth how you can

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[Martin Powell]: help save and put your kids through cou all those great things

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[Gina Riepel]: S.

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[Martin Powell]: that are

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[Ramsey Smith]: driving towards his values

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[Martin Powell]: driving

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[Paul Tyler]: right

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[Martin Powell]: towards the values for people

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[Ramsey Smith]: really get me

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[Martin Powell]: really get me really excited about this business and

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[Martin Powell]: just wanted to continue to just um pass it on and continue to lead and and and

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[Martin Powell]: want people to say hey

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[Martin Powell]: i want to do martins shop people of color and women

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[Martin Powell]: or hey i want to be

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[Ramsey Smith]: i wanna

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[Martin Powell]: i wanted have um be ceo of an insurance company one day uh because there’s just

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[Martin Powell]: so much

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[Paul Tyler]: oh

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[Ramsey Smith]: oh

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[Martin Powell]: power that you know people of color are missed out on because they just haven’t

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[Martin Powell]: been educated around money and the behavior around money so i i just so excited

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[Martin Powell]: that um we’ve been able to make i’ve been able to make an impact on individuals

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[Martin Powell]: as well as as as

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[Martin Powell]: you know with their investing as well as individuals with their career

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[Ramsey Smith]: too

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[Martin Powell]: so just just is just a great business to be in

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[Paul Tyler]: yeah i

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[Ramsey Smith]: you like bing

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[Paul Tyler]: i completely agree and i think martin your com education’s kind of interesting

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[Paul Tyler]: maybe we could you know kind of double click in that a little bit you know mark

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[Paul Tyler]: and i both worked at met life i don’t want to speak for for mark but

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[Paul Tyler]: i’ve seen some interesting as i’ve moved from company or company or sector to

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[Paul Tyler]: sector

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[Ramsey Smith]: and

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[Paul Tyler]: certain and i don’t know if it’s the the market if it’s the company if it’s

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[Paul Tyler]: history

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[Paul Tyler]: certain companies are much better about creating a more

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[Ramsey Smith]: read

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[Paul Tyler]: inclusive environment met life and

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[Paul Tyler]: i’m not sure you know i i don’t think we’re there at the same time there was a

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[Ramsey Smith]: like sure maybe

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[Paul Tyler]: significant top down effort to build diversity in that company now will no longer

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[Paul Tyler]: exists it’s been sold in in terms of the areas we’re working

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[Paul Tyler]: we had some diversity but i would not describe that as a a diverse culture

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[Paul Tyler]: you know move to some other organizations you know without naming them

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[Paul Tyler]: more focus on education more focus on education of advisors i’ve seen a lot more

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[Paul Tyler]: diversity you know some of the ones that kind of you know came up more from

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[Ramsey Smith]: work the uh partners

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[Paul Tyler]: a part time basis i mean what’s first of all you know i again i don’t want

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[Ramsey Smith]: and i want

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[Paul Tyler]: to disparage met or what it was

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[Paul Tyler]: but is there something in the you know is it history is it just the you know the

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[Paul Tyler]: the culture from the get go that makes one organization more successful than

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[Paul Tyler]: another

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah spot on we were going through and

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[Martin Powell]: yes you spot on it what we’re going through and understanding that hua mutual is

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[Martin Powell]: is kind of late in the journey but they’re accelerating

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[Martin Powell]: it has to be top of mind

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[Martin Powell]: for for the change to happen it can’t be

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[Martin Powell]: um an afterthought it can’t be like hey i’m on a journey right you you never go

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[Martin Powell]: to the board and present your as

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[Martin Powell]: executive of your business plan and say hey

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[Ramsey Smith]: your dresses plan

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[Ramsey Smith]: i

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[Martin Powell]: this us getting to our numbers is a journey it’s

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[Ramsey Smith]: put

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[Martin Powell]: about putting concrete measurable actionable items to deliver on diversion and

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[Martin Powell]: the firms that do that are the firms that are having a success that they they are

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[Martin Powell]: holding themselves accountable for going

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[Ramsey Smith]: major

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[Martin Powell]: out

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[Gina Riepel]: have.

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[Martin Powell]: educating

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[Ramsey Smith]: w

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[Martin Powell]: in the tracking

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[Martin Powell]: diversity because

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[Ramsey Smith]: you really dig in into understand that diversity

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[Martin Powell]: when you really dig in and understand it that diversity equity inclusion and

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[Paul Tyler]: wa

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[Martin Powell]: and fresh thoughts is really a multiplier for organizations

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[Martin Powell]: when you look at that

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[Ramsey Smith]: organization lo it de

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[Martin Powell]: organizations have had a lot of success

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[Ramsey Smith]: dude they teams

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[Martin Powell]: they they they’ve changed the world they didn’t sit back and think about you know

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[Martin Powell]: the same old way of doing things and and that and the only way you get that is by

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[Martin Powell]: making sure that you have people in your organization that are

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[Ramsey Smith]: you got people in your organization that

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[Ramsey Smith]: just very very verse not just

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[Martin Powell]: just very very diverse from not just

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[Martin Powell]: educational background but experiences and ethnicities

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: martin you’ve you’ve incorporated group leader retreats to focus in on inclusion

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: can you talk a little bit about that and some of the success that you’ve had from

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: from that outcome

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: yeah we

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[Ramsey Smith]: church

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[Martin Powell]: our retreat

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[Ramsey Smith]: unfortunately

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[Martin Powell]: uh unfortunately we’re virtual but very very powerful

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[Paul Tyler]: s

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[Martin Powell]: and

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[Martin Powell]: it was a very very eye opening experience

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[Martin Powell]: for all of us and the great

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[Ramsey Smith]: out is that i b

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[Martin Powell]: thing was was the opportunity for us to really look into the mirror and be

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[Martin Powell]: transparent

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[Martin Powell]: and i think the

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[Ramsey Smith]: feedback

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[Martin Powell]: powerful thing that

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[Martin Powell]: has

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[Ramsey Smith]: sure

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[Martin Powell]: been shared is is that

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[Ramsey Smith]: you can put the opportunity

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[Martin Powell]: when people took the opportunity

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[Ramsey Smith]: to your bu

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[Martin Powell]: to hear my story

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[Ramsey Smith]: wow aw

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[Martin Powell]: the aha moment went on that

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[Martin Powell]: with some folks it may come up and approached me not only internally but as well

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[Martin Powell]: as externally is that well i never realized martin you you could never hide that

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[Martin Powell]: you were black

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[Martin Powell]: i could hide that i was jewish

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[Martin Powell]: i

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: could hide that

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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

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[Martin Powell]: you know if

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[Ramsey Smith]: i came for what the uh back

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[Martin Powell]: i came from a background and maybe i was bi racial but i looked more

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[Martin Powell]: you know on little more white i could

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[Ramsey Smith]: that i

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[Martin Powell]: sit on white if i was

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[Martin Powell]: of a different

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[Ramsey Smith]: orientation

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[Martin Powell]: sexual orientation you know i

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[Ramsey Smith]: all those different things

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[Martin Powell]: don’t all those different things

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[Ramsey Smith]: which are important

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[Martin Powell]: which are important

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[Ramsey Smith]: identify with if you walk in

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[Martin Powell]: to identify but if you walked in a cult you could keep that on your personal side

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[Martin Powell]: and it was eye opening

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[Ramsey Smith]: people that

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[Martin Powell]: to people that hey you know we have these

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[Gina Riepel]: Yes,

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[Martin Powell]: biases these unconscious biases and we see somebody and we unfortunately have

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[Ramsey Smith]: we see somebody

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[Ramsey Smith]: unfortunately have the to advises that we need to address better

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[Martin Powell]: these unconscious biases that we need to address and identify and then work on

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[Ramsey Smith]: they work

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[Martin Powell]: you know ultimately

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[Paul Tyler]: what’s the

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[Ramsey Smith]: we can

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[Martin Powell]: breaking those those biases down and saying hey this this is not founded this is

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[Martin Powell]: this is you know

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[Ramsey Smith]: all church

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[Martin Powell]: we’re all looking to achieve the same thing when you you get in these

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[Martin Powell]: conversations people realize that yeah we want to have an inclusive environment

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[Martin Powell]: not a ex exclusive environment

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and obviously you know focusing in from a corporate perspective is different than

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you know bringing individuals into the business what other pathways are are you

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: going about in terms of education and helping individuals get into the business

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and get into wholesaling specifically

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[Ramsey Smith]: you

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[Martin Powell]: so

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[Ramsey Smith]: we’re really working

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[Martin Powell]: we’re really working with our recruiting folks and it’s an effort with the

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[Martin Powell]: coalition of of equity

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[Martin Powell]: of

398
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[Martin Powell]: wholesaling

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[Mark Fitzgerald]: what do you think

400
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s really us go out early stage

401
00:13:07,171 –> 00:13:11,251
[Martin Powell]: it’s really us going out early stage career

402
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[Ramsey Smith]: college

403
00:13:11,591 –> 00:13:12,591
[Martin Powell]: college

404
00:13:13,331 –> 00:13:19,011
[Martin Powell]: and really giving them an understanding of what financial services is what

405
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[Martin Powell]: financial services wholesaling is it’s going

406
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[Ramsey Smith]: making sure that you done

407
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[Martin Powell]: making sure that you’re going to the historically black colleges and universities

408
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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

409
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[Martin Powell]: going to the state

410
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[Gina Riepel]: He

411
00:13:28,851 –> 00:13:34,291
[Martin Powell]: and private universities that have a high concentration of of a of die student

412
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[Martin Powell]: body and really educating

413
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[Martin Powell]: them and really getting them excited that as i mentioned in my intro like this

414
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[Ramsey Smith]: you get that if i mention my intro

415
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[Martin Powell]: field

416
00:13:44,211 –> 00:13:49,491
[Martin Powell]: is similar to saying hey i wanna be a nurse that you can impact somebody so

417
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[Martin Powell]: greatly that

418
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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

419
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[Martin Powell]: you know they can be live comfortable in a in a

420
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[Ramsey Smith]: very small

421
00:13:54,451 –> 00:13:56,611
[Martin Powell]: in a very long retirement

422
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[Ramsey Smith]: different than somebody hope you got an interest in

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[Martin Powell]: no different than improving somebody’s health that they got injured so they can

424
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[Martin Powell]: have

425
00:14:00,884 –> 00:14:02,164
[Ramsey Smith]: a good quality of them

426
00:14:01,411 –> 00:14:02,611
[Martin Powell]: a good quality of life

427
00:14:01,516 –> 00:15:59,836

428
00:14:03,204 –> 00:14:07,124
[Ramsey Smith]: so it wants making sure that that people can understand it

429
00:14:03,731 –> 00:14:08,691
[Martin Powell]: so it’s us making sure that that that people can understand the transition it’s

430
00:14:08,771 –> 00:14:14,211
[Martin Powell]: not the the wolf of wall street and selling stocks that people see in the

431
00:14:15,491 –> 00:14:18,371
[Martin Powell]: in you know in big boats and stuff but this is really

432
00:14:18,564 –> 00:14:21,684
[Ramsey Smith]: hey you can be something like that you too

433
00:14:19,011 –> 00:14:22,131
[Martin Powell]: hey you can impact somebody like i you can

434
00:14:22,624 –> 00:14:23,624
[Ramsey Smith]: change their life

435
00:14:23,251 –> 00:14:25,171
[Martin Powell]: change their life by educating them

436
00:14:25,384 –> 00:14:26,384
[Ramsey Smith]: really

437
00:14:26,051 –> 00:14:28,691
[Martin Powell]: and really feel good about what you do day in and day out

438
00:14:29,124 –> 00:14:30,484
[Ramsey Smith]: so what do you see is your

439
00:14:31,844 –> 00:14:36,404
[Ramsey Smith]: through your primary competitors for talent so like when you go out and you

440
00:14:36,304 –> 00:14:37,304
[Ramsey Smith]: recruit

441
00:14:38,404 –> 00:14:43,044
[Ramsey Smith]: what other kinds of companies are you competing against because you know my

442
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[Ramsey Smith]: experience is that that changed dramatically over the course of the last twenty

443
00:14:47,444 –> 00:14:51,364
[Ramsey Smith]: or thirty years like there there’s think there can be more choices and different

444
00:14:51,444 –> 00:14:55,364
[Ramsey Smith]: choices different things are attractive now than they once were so where do you

445
00:14:55,444 –> 00:14:59,044
[Ramsey Smith]: find them the most competition when you when you find that that right candidate

446
00:15:01,171 –> 00:15:03,411
[Martin Powell]: oh y you find a lot of competition

447
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[Martin Powell]: in the it sector right like you have people that can do it

448
00:15:10,131 –> 00:15:11,411
[Martin Powell]: and i’ve done and i actually

449
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[Martin Powell]: done some i t in in my career in between

450
00:15:16,211 –> 00:15:19,411
[Martin Powell]: um being an advisor and coming back from the wholesale side

451
00:15:21,091 –> 00:15:22,451
[Martin Powell]: it’s very competitive because

452
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[Ramsey Smith]: it as we know

453
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[Martin Powell]: it as we know is

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[Martin Powell]: it’s the engine

455
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[Ramsey Smith]: the agent especially after

456
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[Martin Powell]: after the pandemic and

457
00:15:29,764 –> 00:15:34,404
[Ramsey Smith]: they were recruit very heavily their vein extremely well and uh

458
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[Martin Powell]: they’re recruiting very heavily they’re paying extremely well and um

459
00:15:35,704 –> 00:15:36,704
[Ramsey Smith]: they have a lot

460
00:15:36,311 –> 00:15:37,311
[Martin Powell]: they have a lot more

461
00:15:38,371 –> 00:15:40,771
[Martin Powell]: flexibility they they do things a little different

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[Martin Powell]: and we gotta we got to make the we gotta adapt and and

463
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: nice

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[Martin Powell]: make sure that we can

465
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[Ramsey Smith]: a number flexibility

466
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[Martin Powell]: provide that level of flexibility and industry make it on making it attractive

467
00:15:53,151 –> 00:15:54,151
[Martin Powell]: but it

468
00:15:53,784 –> 00:15:54,784
[Ramsey Smith]: is really

469
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[Martin Powell]: is where we see

470
00:15:56,771 –> 00:16:01,171
[Martin Powell]: the greatest competition for talent and then i would say the medical field would

471
00:16:00,871 –> 00:16:01,871
[Martin Powell]: be next

472
00:16:01,444 –> 00:16:05,924
[Ramsey Smith]: got it okay so the other thing that that was said earlier that i thought was

473
00:16:01,516 –> 00:17:59,836

474
00:16:06,804 –> 00:16:11,124
[Ramsey Smith]: intriguing and it sort of again reminds me of something i’ve seen a lot of is uh

475
00:16:12,324 –> 00:16:15,844
[Ramsey Smith]: is you know gina gina you talked about how there there were people that saw

476
00:16:16,164 –> 00:16:20,484
[Ramsey Smith]: things in you that that you didn’t necessarily recognize in yourself and so they

477
00:16:20,484 –> 00:16:25,604
[Ramsey Smith]: empowered you and there are a couple i see a couple things in there right so one

478
00:16:25,304 –> 00:16:26,304
[Ramsey Smith]: is

479
00:16:26,964 –> 00:16:30,724
[Ramsey Smith]: the concept of the the importance of mentorship and sponsorship and those are

480
00:16:30,804 –> 00:16:32,964
[Ramsey Smith]: actually aren’t necessarily the same thing they’re both important

481
00:16:34,644 –> 00:16:39,204
[Ramsey Smith]: you know how important was you know mentorship in the first order and then

482
00:16:39,444 –> 00:16:43,284
[Ramsey Smith]: sponsorship in the second order perhaps the more important of the two in terms of

483
00:16:44,244 –> 00:16:45,524
[Ramsey Smith]: the progression of your career

484
00:16:47,065 –> 00:16:48,265
[Gina Riepel]: hope you know what. it’s funny,

485
00:16:48,505 –> 00:16:50,025
[Gina Riepel]: Um, growing up in this business,

486
00:16:48,564 –> 00:16:51,284
[Ramsey Smith]: and growing up this is i really

487
00:16:50,340 –> 00:16:51,340
[Paul Tyler]: really

488
00:16:50,645 –> 00:16:51,645
[Gina Riepel]: I, I really

489
00:16:51,044 –> 00:16:52,044
[Mark Fitzgerald]: see

490
00:16:52,025 –> 00:16:56,025
[Gina Riepel]: wouldn’t say I had a a mentor necessarily, because

491
00:16:55,700 –> 00:16:56,700
[Paul Tyler]: no

492
00:16:55,765 –> 00:16:56,765
[Gina Riepel]: there were

493
00:16:56,404 –> 00:17:00,484
[Ramsey Smith]: no to look like me i mean i course i that i weigh a hundred pounds but for what

494
00:16:56,605 –> 00:16:57,605
[Gina Riepel]: no no one that looked

495
00:16:57,220 –> 00:16:58,220
[Paul Tyler]: i mean i

496
00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:00,905
[Gina Riepel]: like me. I mean I’m four eleven. I weigh a hundred pound soaking wet. You know

497
00:17:00,644 –> 00:17:05,204
[Ramsey Smith]: you know ipic i mean i and i’m out there right i’m i’ strong i got some

498
00:17:00,985 –> 00:17:05,145
[Gina Riepel]: I’m hispanic. I mean, I and I’m out there right. I’m I’m I’m strong. I got a

499
00:17:05,145 –> 00:17:07,545
[Gina Riepel]: strong personality and there just wasn’t a lot for me to

500
00:17:05,364 –> 00:17:08,804
[Ramsey Smith]: personality and there just wasn’t a lot for me to choose from so i had to find

501
00:17:07,625 –> 00:17:12,665
[Gina Riepel]: choose from, So I have to find men that Um. I liked the way they did business,

502
00:17:07,751 –> 00:17:08,751
[Martin Powell]: no she said

503
00:17:09,204 –> 00:17:14,964
[Ramsey Smith]: men that um i liked the way they did business and i respected them and i wanted

504
00:17:12,420 –> 00:17:13,420
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

505
00:17:12,925 –> 00:17:13,925
[Gina Riepel]: and I

506
00:17:13,525 –> 00:17:14,525
[Gina Riepel]: respected

507
00:17:13,844 –> 00:17:14,844
[Mark Fitzgerald]: she’s

508
00:17:14,080 –> 00:17:16,640
[Paul Tyler]: i wanted to be like that before i had to

509
00:17:14,345 –> 00:17:18,105
[Gina Riepel]: them and I wanted to be like that And so I had to, um.

510
00:17:15,044 –> 00:17:21,284
[Ramsey Smith]: to be like that and so i had to um i use to that and sometimes they my to even

511
00:17:18,160 –> 00:17:20,080
[Paul Tyler]: i got used to that this was the people that

512
00:17:18,745 –> 00:17:21,785
[Gina Riepel]: I, I used them, and sometimes they were mentors and they didn’t even know it.

513
00:17:21,364 –> 00:17:22,884
[Ramsey Smith]: know it and so

514
00:17:21,645 –> 00:17:22,645
[Gina Riepel]: Um,

515
00:17:21,940 –> 00:17:22,940
[Paul Tyler]: so

516
00:17:22,585 –> 00:17:23,625
[Gina Riepel]: and so I

517
00:17:23,325 –> 00:17:24,325
[Gina Riepel]: just,

518
00:17:23,380 –> 00:17:24,380
[Paul Tyler]: i

519
00:17:23,704 –> 00:17:24,704
[Ramsey Smith]: i

520
00:17:24,185 –> 00:17:25,225
[Gina Riepel]: I kind of had to build

521
00:17:24,984 –> 00:17:25,984
[Ramsey Smith]: my own

522
00:17:25,165 –> 00:17:26,165
[Gina Riepel]: my own. It

523
00:17:25,805 –> 00:17:26,805
[Gina Riepel]: wasn’t until

524
00:17:25,820 –> 00:17:26,820
[Paul Tyler]: so i

525
00:17:26,704 –> 00:17:27,704
[Ramsey Smith]: i finally

526
00:17:26,725 –> 00:17:27,725
[Gina Riepel]: I finally,

527
00:17:28,125 –> 00:17:29,125
[Gina Riepel]: um,

528
00:17:28,905 –> 00:17:30,905
[Gina Riepel]: just said I, I got to do this my way.

529
00:17:28,964 –> 00:17:34,884
[Ramsey Smith]: just said i gonna to do this my way i i like that i mean it i know that but i’m

530
00:17:31,100 –> 00:17:32,100
[Paul Tyler]: i like that

531
00:17:31,705 –> 00:17:35,465
[Gina Riepel]: I, I like that. I’m going to. I’m going to emulate that, but I’m going to do it

532
00:17:34,884 –> 00:17:40,884
[Ramsey Smith]: gonna do it my way i try attracting um senior leaders saying you know i i see

533
00:17:35,545 –> 00:17:40,105
[Gina Riepel]: my way. And then that’s when I started attracting Um. senior leader saying, you

534
00:17:40,185 –> 00:17:41,865
[Gina Riepel]: know, I, I see something in you. Im.

535
00:17:40,504 –> 00:17:41,504
[Ramsey Smith]: something

536
00:17:41,845 –> 00:17:42,845
[Gina Riepel]: I’m going to give you

537
00:17:42,164 –> 00:17:46,804
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean like i said give you that chance but it wasn’t um it was hard it was

538
00:17:42,260 –> 00:17:43,260
[Paul Tyler]: movie

539
00:17:42,745 –> 00:17:43,865
[Gina Riepel]: like I said, Giveve me that chance,

540
00:17:44,060 –> 00:17:45,060
[Paul Tyler]: watching

541
00:17:44,345 –> 00:17:49,145
[Gina Riepel]: But it wasn’t um. It was hard. it was really really hard to find people. Um.

542
00:17:46,964 –> 00:17:52,084
[Ramsey Smith]: really really hard to find people um i and so that’s why now um as a woman

543
00:17:49,085 –> 00:17:50,085
[Gina Riepel]: and

544
00:17:49,351 –> 00:17:50,351
[Martin Powell]: six

545
00:17:49,785 –> 00:17:55,065
[Gina Riepel]: so that’s why? now, Um, as a woman, a Hispanic woman in this business, I am so

546
00:17:52,964 –> 00:17:57,364
[Ramsey Smith]: hispanic com business i am so passionate about bing and

547
00:17:55,180 –> 00:17:56,180
[Paul Tyler]: about me

548
00:17:55,225 –> 00:17:56,585
[Gina Riepel]: passionate about leading

549
00:17:57,060 –> 00:17:58,060
[Paul Tyler]: tell me what

550
00:17:57,145 –> 00:18:02,745
[Gina Riepel]: and showing what Um, people of color like me, Um can do ’cause I, I’ve said

551
00:18:01,516 –> 00:19:59,836

552
00:18:02,024 –> 00:18:03,024
[Ramsey Smith]: exact

553
00:18:02,825 –> 00:18:05,945
[Gina Riepel]: this to Martin before you know. I. I really believe that. If you can you know,

554
00:18:06,105 –> 00:18:11,705
[Gina Riepel]: see it, you can be it. And so I, I just feel a huge sense of responsibility to

555
00:18:06,180 –> 00:18:07,180
[Paul Tyler]: you can see it

556
00:18:06,584 –> 00:18:07,584
[Ramsey Smith]: it could be it

557
00:18:07,780 –> 00:18:08,780
[Paul Tyler]: light

558
00:18:08,404 –> 00:18:14,164
[Ramsey Smith]: so i i just feel a huge sense of responsibility to um show what it’s supposed to

559
00:18:12,025 –> 00:18:16,345
[Gina Riepel]: Um. show what it’s supposed to look like When I think we all have to do that.

560
00:18:14,164 –> 00:18:15,444
[Ramsey Smith]: look like and i think we all

561
00:18:15,060 –> 00:18:16,060
[Paul Tyler]: she

562
00:18:15,604 –> 00:18:19,284
[Ramsey Smith]: have to do that um we all have to walk walking and

563
00:18:16,665 –> 00:18:22,025
[Gina Riepel]: Um, we all have to walk, walk and talk, the talk and we have to be intentional,

564
00:18:19,060 –> 00:18:20,060
[Paul Tyler]: and

565
00:18:19,524 –> 00:18:22,004
[Ramsey Smith]: talk and we have to be intentional

566
00:18:22,505 –> 00:18:26,425
[Gina Riepel]: and I think that is the key for me, and my whole career is really really being

567
00:18:22,560 –> 00:18:24,400
[Paul Tyler]: you side of the key for me and your

568
00:18:22,564 –> 00:18:27,204
[Ramsey Smith]: and i think that is the case with me and my co career really going be intentional

569
00:18:26,665 –> 00:18:31,065
[Gina Riepel]: intentional and looking for for the talent. Um, looking,

570
00:18:27,924 –> 00:18:30,964
[Ramsey Smith]: and looking for for the talent looking

571
00:18:31,645 –> 00:18:32,645
[Gina Riepel]: um

572
00:18:31,944 –> 00:18:32,944
[Ramsey Smith]: for

573
00:18:32,425 –> 00:18:33,785
[Gina Riepel]: for people that don’t necessarily

574
00:18:33,844 –> 00:18:36,404
[Ramsey Smith]: i i think that’s me as i

575
00:18:33,865 –> 00:18:36,825
[Gina Riepel]: look like me. act like me, Because that’s what happened to me is. I remember

576
00:18:36,845 –> 00:18:37,845
[Gina Riepel]: when

577
00:18:38,505 –> 00:18:42,905
[Gina Riepel]: the manager said that to me, he said I, I, I like you. You’re different, Um,

578
00:18:43,485 –> 00:18:44,485
[Gina Riepel]: I’m gonna. I’m

579
00:18:44,020 –> 00:18:45,020
[Paul Tyler]: can

580
00:18:44,425 –> 00:18:46,425
[Gina Riepel]: going to give you chance. I’m goingnna, put you out in the field. I’m goingnna

581
00:18:46,325 –> 00:18:47,325
[Gina Riepel]: see what happens,

582
00:18:47,325 –> 00:18:48,325
[Gina Riepel]: and

583
00:18:47,440 –> 00:18:50,160
[Paul Tyler]: and then we end up what like six years

584
00:18:48,025 –> 00:18:51,785
[Gina Riepel]: then I ended up working for him again like fifteen years later and he said he

585
00:18:48,084 –> 00:18:54,164
[Ramsey Smith]: okay i ask you what to do we can the junior so it was pretty away and i went to

586
00:18:51,700 –> 00:18:52,700
[Paul Tyler]: way

587
00:18:51,865 –> 00:18:55,705
[Gina Riepel]: recruited me away and I went to work for again and he was like you were the

588
00:18:54,164 –> 00:18:58,724
[Ramsey Smith]: go from again and i was going to be the best chance i ever took in my career i’

589
00:18:55,785 –> 00:19:00,345
[Gina Riepel]: best chance I ever tookck in my career. Um, and I was like, Wow, thank you, you

590
00:19:00,425 –> 00:19:02,665
[Gina Riepel]: know, and so I just I feel like

591
00:19:03,325 –> 00:19:04,325
[Gina Riepel]: sometimes

592
00:19:03,924 –> 00:19:05,684
[Ramsey Smith]: sometimes the venture a yard there you got

593
00:19:04,185 –> 00:19:07,065
[Gina Riepel]: the mentors aren’t there. You got to find. ‘. Um,

594
00:19:06,765 –> 00:19:07,765
[Gina Riepel]: you

595
00:19:06,980 –> 00:19:07,980
[Paul Tyler]: create

596
00:19:07,204 –> 00:19:11,924
[Ramsey Smith]: you have to create your rain i did that i don’t want to make it hard for anyone

597
00:19:07,385 –> 00:19:10,185
[Gina Riepel]: have to create your own and I did that, and

598
00:19:09,940 –> 00:19:10,940
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t

599
00:19:10,345 –> 00:19:14,025
[Gina Riepel]: but I don’t want to make it hard for anyone to do that. I wa to make it easy

600
00:19:12,004 –> 00:19:16,644
[Ramsey Smith]: to do that i’d rather make it easy for people to find me and i am a mentor now i

601
00:19:14,265 –> 00:19:18,425
[Gina Riepel]: for people to find mentors and I am a mentor. Now I mentor for the B. I. S. a

602
00:19:16,724 –> 00:19:19,124
[Ramsey Smith]: mentor for the b s a w and st program

603
00:19:18,565 –> 00:19:19,565
[Gina Riepel]: rising star program

604
00:19:19,620 –> 00:19:20,620
[Paul Tyler]: and

605
00:19:19,885 –> 00:19:20,885
[Gina Riepel]: and

606
00:19:20,484 –> 00:19:24,884
[Ramsey Smith]: and that’s important to me and i have a lot of young women that have asked me to

607
00:19:20,665 –> 00:19:24,425
[Gina Riepel]: that’s important to me and I have a lot of young women that have asked

608
00:19:24,244 –> 00:19:25,244
[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah

609
00:19:24,665 –> 00:19:27,385
[Gina Riepel]: me to mentor them And so we do it at different levels, right,

610
00:19:24,964 –> 00:19:27,284
[Ramsey Smith]: mentor them and so we do it at different levels right

611
00:19:27,620 –> 00:19:28,620
[Paul Tyler]: yet

612
00:19:28,345 –> 00:19:30,025
[Gina Riepel]: Um, and even sponse. And and the

613
00:19:30,084 –> 00:19:34,564
[Ramsey Smith]: this authorship thing too i had people come to me and say i i’m going to sponsor

614
00:19:30,105 –> 00:19:31,785
[Gina Riepel]: whole sponsorship thing too, I’ve had

615
00:19:32,100 –> 00:19:33,100
[Paul Tyler]: people that

616
00:19:32,345 –> 00:19:36,505
[Gina Riepel]: people come to me and say I, I wantnna sponsor you. Um. but I find with the

617
00:19:34,644 –> 00:19:40,164
[Ramsey Smith]: you um but i find with the sponsorship sometimes is more equal playing field that

618
00:19:36,665 –> 00:19:41,225
[Gina Riepel]: sponsorship sometimes it’s more equal playing field, though, Um,

619
00:19:41,220 –> 00:19:42,220
[Paul Tyler]: i

620
00:19:41,464 –> 00:19:42,464
[Ramsey Smith]: like i

621
00:19:41,705 –> 00:19:46,345
[Gina Riepel]: like I can help them just as much as they can help me. And so I,

622
00:19:41,705 –> 00:19:46,345
[Gina Riepel]: like I can help them just as much as they can help me. And so I,

623
00:19:45,284 –> 00:19:46,964
[Ramsey Smith]: so that’s a superpower

624
00:19:47,485 –> 00:19:48,485
[Gina Riepel]: yeah, it

625
00:19:47,784 –> 00:19:48,784
[Ramsey Smith]: right

626
00:19:48,345 –> 00:19:49,865
[Gina Riepel]: is. it is. Yep,

627
00:19:49,820 –> 00:19:50,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so so

628
00:19:51,680 –> 00:19:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: i i’ve always found mentorship is my best mentors have not been ones that have

629
00:19:56,000 –> 00:20:00,080
[Paul Tyler]: been you know assigned to me by some corporation or some hr department jean as

630
00:20:00,160 –> 00:20:04,560
[Paul Tyler]: you said it just sort of happens but that also implies you’ve got a critical mass

631
00:20:01,516 –> 00:21:59,836

632
00:20:02,784 –> 00:20:03,784
[Ramsey Smith]: it also light

633
00:20:04,560 –> 00:20:06,880
[Paul Tyler]: of people who could be candidates for doing that

634
00:20:09,680 –> 00:20:15,520
[Paul Tyler]: what’s critical mass inside an organization you also mentioned bsa and martin and

635
00:20:15,760 –> 00:20:20,080
[Paul Tyler]: j i’d love to get your perspectives on this how much of that critical mass can be

636
00:20:20,160 –> 00:20:22,000
[Paul Tyler]: created you know across companies

637
00:20:23,040 –> 00:20:27,520
[Paul Tyler]: and still accomplish the same purpose can these substitute for critical mass and

638
00:20:27,600 –> 00:20:30,800
[Paul Tyler]: company or inside companies or does it have to go hand in hand

639
00:20:35,891 –> 00:20:40,051
[Martin Powell]: i think critical mass it’s a great question it it’s so important and it’s kind of

640
00:20:40,291 –> 00:20:43,811
[Martin Powell]: it’s kind of like bowed water or fast food right like

641
00:20:44,671 –> 00:20:45,671
[Martin Powell]: the more you

642
00:20:46,324 –> 00:20:47,444
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i think

643
00:20:46,371 –> 00:20:48,771
[Martin Powell]: you get companies even though we’re

644
00:20:48,504 –> 00:20:49,504
[Ramsey Smith]: about

645
00:20:48,831 –> 00:20:49,831
[Martin Powell]: competing for talent

646
00:20:49,984 –> 00:20:50,984
[Ramsey Smith]: the war

647
00:20:50,751 –> 00:20:51,751
[Martin Powell]: the more people you

648
00:20:51,304 –> 00:20:52,304
[Ramsey Smith]: explain

649
00:20:51,891 –> 00:20:56,291
[Martin Powell]: get excited about it the more people you get consuming bottled water and and fast

650
00:20:56,071 –> 00:20:57,071
[Martin Powell]: food right

651
00:20:56,904 –> 00:20:57,904
[Ramsey Smith]: we get

652
00:20:57,491 –> 00:21:03,891
[Martin Powell]: and we can get people companies con you know hiring more women and and minorities

653
00:21:04,871 –> 00:21:05,871
[Martin Powell]: and

654
00:21:05,624 –> 00:21:06,624
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

655
00:21:06,451 –> 00:21:08,531
[Martin Powell]: companies when you look at talent and

656
00:21:08,664 –> 00:21:09,664
[Ramsey Smith]: school

657
00:21:08,851 –> 00:21:12,691
[Martin Powell]: population growth you you’re gonna miss out

658
00:21:10,964 –> 00:21:14,004
[Ramsey Smith]: you take a oh did you get over go

659
00:21:13,591 –> 00:21:14,591
[Martin Powell]: if you don’t focus

660
00:21:15,591 –> 00:21:16,591
[Martin Powell]: on hir the best

661
00:21:16,344 –> 00:21:17,344
[Ramsey Smith]: think

662
00:21:16,831 –> 00:21:17,831
[Martin Powell]: and brightest

663
00:21:17,624 –> 00:21:18,624
[Ramsey Smith]: eight

664
00:21:18,151 –> 00:21:19,151
[Martin Powell]: and

665
00:21:18,824 –> 00:21:19,824
[Ramsey Smith]: eight

666
00:21:19,711 –> 00:21:20,711
[Martin Powell]: i always say that

667
00:21:20,804 –> 00:21:21,844
[Ramsey Smith]: hard work to

668
00:21:21,251 –> 00:21:25,411
[Martin Powell]: hard work and intelligence doesn’t discriminate it’s available

669
00:21:26,951 –> 00:21:27,951
[Martin Powell]: across

670
00:21:28,071 –> 00:21:29,071
[Martin Powell]: everybody

671
00:21:29,684 –> 00:21:32,084
[Ramsey Smith]: so it’s it’s available i think that the

672
00:21:33,544 –> 00:21:34,544
[Ramsey Smith]: the the

673
00:21:33,860 –> 00:21:34,860
[Paul Tyler]: no

674
00:21:33,944 –> 00:21:34,944
[Ramsey Smith]: challenge

675
00:21:34,445 –> 00:21:35,445
[Gina Riepel]: one.

676
00:21:35,204 –> 00:21:40,164
[Ramsey Smith]: the challenge always is is it you know how well is it recognized so as we went

677
00:21:40,324 –> 00:21:44,324
[Ramsey Smith]: through this discussion you know a few things kind of hit home so you know i just

678
00:21:44,404 –> 00:21:48,164
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of jumped when when gina mentioned that there was that somebody said i took

679
00:21:48,164 –> 00:21:52,724
[Ramsey Smith]: a chance in you that was the best chance i ever took i think you know in life in

680
00:21:52,340 –> 00:21:53,340
[Paul Tyler]: white

681
00:21:52,884 –> 00:21:57,604
[Ramsey Smith]: life people that are in positions of power you know fundamentally start with well

682
00:21:57,684 –> 00:22:00,804
[Ramsey Smith]: i have to sort of maintain my position of power and that can tend to make them a

683
00:22:00,804 –> 00:22:04,964
[Ramsey Smith]: bit conservative and that also means that as as they sort of bring people up

684
00:22:01,516 –> 00:23:59,836

685
00:22:05,124 –> 00:22:09,444
[Ramsey Smith]: behind them they sort of bring in people and skill sets and things that that that

686
00:22:09,604 –> 00:22:14,804
[Ramsey Smith]: feel very familiar because that’s in their comfort zone but but the challenge the

687
00:22:14,884 –> 00:22:18,964
[Ramsey Smith]: challenge around diversity has been and always been that

688
00:22:20,484 –> 00:22:24,644
[Ramsey Smith]: that people of color had to sort of build and demonstrate their success in very

689
00:22:24,804 –> 00:22:30,324
[Ramsey Smith]: different ways right and so those that could sp spent sponsor mentor

690
00:22:31,764 –> 00:22:35,764
[Ramsey Smith]: make a difference have to have to be able to figure out ways to recognize

691
00:22:36,324 –> 00:22:38,964
[Ramsey Smith]: recognize those skills and how they’ve manifested themselves

692
00:22:40,004 –> 00:22:44,404
[Ramsey Smith]: and have to be willing to quote unquote take that chance and from my perspective

693
00:22:44,484 –> 00:22:49,604
[Ramsey Smith]: often it’s not nearly as much it’s not as big a chance as maybe the person taking

694
00:22:49,844 –> 00:22:54,244
[Ramsey Smith]: that leap is taking its just they don’t actually necessarily recognize risk sorry

695
00:22:54,324 –> 00:23:00,084
[Ramsey Smith]: my phone keeps ringing here they don’t recognize they just don’t recognize that

696
00:23:00,104 –> 00:23:01,104
[Ramsey Smith]: the the um

697
00:23:02,004 –> 00:23:04,884
[Ramsey Smith]: again the way the talent manifests itself in the same way so

698
00:23:06,224 –> 00:23:07,224
[Ramsey Smith]: i think both

699
00:23:06,791 –> 00:23:07,791
[Martin Powell]: yeah

700
00:23:07,284 –> 00:23:11,604
[Ramsey Smith]: the stories we’ve heard have been have been really inspiring here and and and the

701
00:23:11,604 –> 00:23:15,604
[Ramsey Smith]: messages the message is to make a difference is more than just having programs

702
00:23:16,804 –> 00:23:22,644
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s taking some taking some chances on on people that have demonstrated ambition

703
00:23:22,724 –> 00:23:26,324
[Ramsey Smith]: and raw skill no question there just a comment

704
00:23:27,140 –> 00:23:28,140
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

705
00:23:27,805 –> 00:23:28,805
[Gina Riepel]: two.

706
00:23:28,311 –> 00:23:29,311
[Martin Powell]: and

707
00:23:30,771 –> 00:23:36,211
[Martin Powell]: and also piggyback on it ramsey is is getting rid of this unconscious bias

708
00:23:37,384 –> 00:23:38,384
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s

709
00:23:37,911 –> 00:23:38,911
[Martin Powell]: and that’s what

710
00:23:39,064 –> 00:23:40,064
[Ramsey Smith]: is

711
00:23:39,971 –> 00:23:43,971
[Martin Powell]: these retreats were great about because the unconscious bias is real

712
00:23:44,264 –> 00:23:45,264
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe

713
00:23:44,991 –> 00:23:45,991
[Martin Powell]: it it’s

714
00:23:46,771 –> 00:23:51,491
[Martin Powell]: it’s end up like look what’s going on with the nfl seventy percent of the players

715
00:23:51,651 –> 00:23:52,851
[Martin Powell]: are of color

716
00:23:54,531 –> 00:23:57,091
[Martin Powell]: and when it comes to the management the people

717
00:23:56,724 –> 00:23:57,724
[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes

718
00:23:57,331 –> 00:24:03,171
[Martin Powell]: are making decisions in management they they have the biases it’s not about the

719
00:24:01,516 –> 00:25:59,836

720
00:24:03,331 –> 00:24:05,971
[Martin Powell]: ability i mean cause we’ve seen

721
00:24:04,824 –> 00:24:05,824
[Ramsey Smith]: see

722
00:24:06,544 –> 00:24:07,544
[Ramsey Smith]: like tes

723
00:24:06,911 –> 00:24:07,911
[Martin Powell]: black coaches

724
00:24:08,344 –> 00:24:09,344
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

725
00:24:09,091 –> 00:24:14,691
[Martin Powell]: be super successful mike tomlin fifteen years of winning straight seasons right

726
00:24:14,851 –> 00:24:20,851
[Martin Powell]: like the the it just goes on and on so it’s that unconscious ultimately you just

727
00:24:21,011 –> 00:24:23,651
[Martin Powell]: gotta to stop it and say you know what

728
00:24:24,771 –> 00:24:30,051
[Martin Powell]: i need to get past this unconscious bias it’s not there’s not the risk is not any

729
00:24:29,871 –> 00:24:30,871
[Martin Powell]: greater

730
00:24:31,891 –> 00:24:35,171
[Martin Powell]: by hiring somebody of color or a woman it’s the same risk

731
00:24:35,704 –> 00:24:36,704
[Ramsey Smith]: you

732
00:24:36,131 –> 00:24:37,251
[Martin Powell]: don’t think about it

733
00:24:38,531 –> 00:24:39,891
[Martin Powell]: that it’s gonna be a greater risk

734
00:24:40,420 –> 00:24:41,420
[Paul Tyler]: ja

735
00:24:41,811 –> 00:24:43,251
[Martin Powell]: and that’s then

736
00:24:42,951 –> 00:24:43,951
[Martin Powell]: it’s

737
00:24:42,984 –> 00:24:43,984
[Ramsey Smith]: change

738
00:24:43,140 –> 00:24:44,140
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

739
00:24:43,351 –> 00:24:44,351
[Martin Powell]: gotta change

740
00:24:44,800 –> 00:24:48,800
[Paul Tyler]: gina what you know if you could give one word of advice to people listening to

741
00:24:48,580 –> 00:24:49,580
[Paul Tyler]: the show were

742
00:24:51,120 –> 00:24:54,800
[Paul Tyler]: positions where they make hiring decisions recruiting decisions what would it be

743
00:24:57,604 –> 00:25:01,844
[Ramsey Smith]: i just think people have to be intentional like they have to go

744
00:24:57,625 –> 00:25:03,225
[Gina Riepel]: I just think people have to be intentional Like they have to go and and be

745
00:25:03,124 –> 00:25:10,244
[Ramsey Smith]: be willing and opened um and be willing to give people a chance i i just think

746
00:25:03,465 –> 00:25:05,465
[Gina Riepel]: willing and open minded

747
00:25:06,505 –> 00:25:11,145
[Gina Riepel]: and be willing to give people a chance. I, I just think that sometimes it’s

748
00:25:11,225 –> 00:25:12,825
[Gina Riepel]: just easy to go with what you know

749
00:25:12,820 –> 00:25:13,820
[Paul Tyler]: right

750
00:25:13,085 –> 00:25:14,085
[Gina Riepel]: right

751
00:25:13,384 –> 00:25:14,384
[Ramsey Smith]: right and

752
00:25:13,865 –> 00:25:16,425
[Gina Riepel]: and it’s simple and let’s just do that, but we

753
00:25:16,304 –> 00:25:17,304
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah it

754
00:25:16,485 –> 00:25:17,485
[Gina Riepel]: can’t. If if we’re

755
00:25:17,140 –> 00:25:18,140
[Paul Tyler]: change

756
00:25:17,625 –> 00:25:21,145
[Gina Riepel]: going to change, we’re going to take this to the next level. We can’t do that.

757
00:25:18,004 –> 00:25:19,924
[Ramsey Smith]: change this level

758
00:25:19,860 –> 00:25:20,860
[Paul Tyler]: can’t

759
00:25:20,484 –> 00:25:22,804
[Ramsey Smith]: we can’t do that we have to be willing to

760
00:25:21,385 –> 00:25:23,305
[Gina Riepel]: We have to be willing to um

761
00:25:22,500 –> 00:25:23,500
[Paul Tyler]: um

762
00:25:22,904 –> 00:25:23,904
[Ramsey Smith]: um

763
00:25:24,505 –> 00:25:27,705
[Gina Riepel]: to think outside the box and think long term

764
00:25:24,505 –> 00:25:27,705
[Gina Riepel]: to think outside the box and think long term

765
00:25:24,560 –> 00:25:25,760
[Paul Tyler]: think outside the box

766
00:25:24,884 –> 00:25:27,764
[Ramsey Smith]: s outside the box and think long term

767
00:25:28,100 –> 00:25:29,100
[Paul Tyler]: and

768
00:25:28,424 –> 00:25:29,424
[Ramsey Smith]: and

769
00:25:29,065 –> 00:25:32,585
[Gina Riepel]: and and be intentional about that, Because I think sometimes we take the easy

770
00:25:29,124 –> 00:25:33,284
[Ramsey Smith]: and be attentional about that because i i think sometimes we take the easy route

771
00:25:32,525 –> 00:25:33,525
[Gina Riepel]: route

772
00:25:34,164 –> 00:25:36,964
[Ramsey Smith]: um and discover what we know and

773
00:25:34,905 –> 00:25:36,985
[Gina Riepel]: and just go with what we know and

774
00:25:37,420 –> 00:25:38,420
[Paul Tyler]: you got

775
00:25:37,605 –> 00:25:38,605
[Gina Riepel]: we’re never going to get

776
00:25:38,084 –> 00:25:39,084
[Mark Fitzgerald]: sure

777
00:25:38,585 –> 00:25:39,945
[Gina Riepel]: anywhere if we continue to do that

778
00:25:40,400 –> 00:25:45,200
[Paul Tyler]: yeah he well we’re kind of at the top of the show mar mark any final thoughts or

779
00:25:45,180 –> 00:25:46,180
[Paul Tyler]: or questions

780
00:25:47,824 –> 00:25:52,704
[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah so martin i guess in in twenty twenty two you know in terms of bringing the

781
00:25:52,784 –> 00:25:54,864
[Mark Fitzgerald]: unconscious bias to a conscious level

782
00:25:56,304 –> 00:26:00,224
[Mark Fitzgerald]: what would you like what would you consider a successful transition in twenty

783
00:26:00,384 –> 00:26:02,224
[Mark Fitzgerald]: twenty two from your organization standpoint

784
00:26:01,516 –> 00:27:59,836

785
00:26:03,904 –> 00:26:04,904
[Ramsey Smith]: did you

786
00:26:04,291 –> 00:26:07,971
[Martin Powell]: a piggy back with genus cities that making sure that the leaders are

787
00:26:07,911 –> 00:26:08,911
[Martin Powell]: intentionally

788
00:26:10,691 –> 00:26:17,251
[Martin Powell]: seeking these opportunities to get people of color in through the interview

789
00:26:16,951 –> 00:26:17,951
[Martin Powell]: process

790
00:26:18,624 –> 00:26:19,624
[Ramsey Smith]: the country

791
00:26:19,171 –> 00:26:21,091
[Martin Powell]: are they intentionally working on

792
00:26:20,744 –> 00:26:21,744
[Ramsey Smith]: sh

793
00:26:21,251 –> 00:26:23,171
[Martin Powell]: their journey around their

794
00:26:22,824 –> 00:26:23,824
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

795
00:26:23,431 –> 00:26:24,431
[Martin Powell]: their biases

796
00:26:25,064 –> 00:26:26,064
[Ramsey Smith]: that

797
00:26:25,811 –> 00:26:27,251
[Martin Powell]: and that they believe

798
00:26:27,584 –> 00:26:28,584
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

799
00:26:28,291 –> 00:26:33,091
[Martin Powell]: that when it’s absolutely true it’s the multiplier effect for for organizations

800
00:26:34,051 –> 00:26:37,011
[Martin Powell]: to have a diverse workforce the

801
00:26:36,944 –> 00:26:37,944
[Ramsey Smith]: they do

802
00:26:37,171 –> 00:26:39,971
[Martin Powell]: diversity of ideas it’s going to move your

803
00:26:39,664 –> 00:26:40,664
[Ramsey Smith]: chores

804
00:26:40,211 –> 00:26:41,571
[Martin Powell]: workforce forward

805
00:26:42,764 –> 00:26:43,764
[Mark Fitzgerald]: well so thank you

806
00:26:45,044 –> 00:26:50,964
[Ramsey Smith]: so one thing that i will you know i will add is that uh i think it’s often

807
00:26:51,044 –> 00:26:55,764
[Ramsey Smith]: underappreciated you know what the opportunity is to to work with

808
00:26:56,884 –> 00:27:01,044
[Ramsey Smith]: whether it’s whether it’s people of color or women it there’s there’s an

809
00:27:01,204 –> 00:27:03,444
[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity to find people that are

810
00:27:04,564 –> 00:27:07,524
[Ramsey Smith]: very comfortable in taking some risk and actually

811
00:27:08,724 –> 00:27:09,924
[Ramsey Smith]: pursuing opportunities

812
00:27:10,964 –> 00:27:15,124
[Ramsey Smith]: that are more entrepreneurial and where where outcomes are less defined which

813
00:27:15,204 –> 00:27:19,124
[Ramsey Smith]: you’ll find particularly in big organizations you know they’re usually you know

814
00:27:19,284 –> 00:27:22,884
[Ramsey Smith]: the best accounts when i experienced this in my wall street career like there’s

815
00:27:22,884 –> 00:27:26,724
[Ramsey Smith]: the best there’s the big name accounts that everybody sort of is going for and

816
00:27:26,804 –> 00:27:30,644
[Ramsey Smith]: then usually there’s some other some set of opportunities that are inside the

817
00:27:30,704 –> 00:27:31,704
[Ramsey Smith]: four walls of the business

818
00:27:32,724 –> 00:27:36,244
[Ramsey Smith]: and you know often people of color end up pursuing those opportunities either

819
00:27:36,564 –> 00:27:37,844
[Ramsey Smith]: because that’s what’s left for them

820
00:27:37,940 –> 00:27:38,940
[Paul Tyler]: one

821
00:27:38,484 –> 00:27:41,844
[Ramsey Smith]: or sometimes they end up pursuing the opportunity because they say you know what

822
00:27:42,300 –> 00:27:43,300
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

823
00:27:42,644 –> 00:27:46,884
[Ramsey Smith]: if i pursue this i pursue this undefined opportunity the account that’s never

824
00:27:47,044 –> 00:27:50,164
[Ramsey Smith]: really been successful before the region’s never been successful whatever it

825
00:27:49,984 –> 00:27:50,984
[Ramsey Smith]: happens to be

826
00:27:51,140 –> 00:27:52,140
[Paul Tyler]: know

827
00:27:51,224 –> 00:27:52,224
[Ramsey Smith]: i know

828
00:27:53,124 –> 00:27:56,884
[Ramsey Smith]: that i can actually because i’ll be in isolation if i make this work

829
00:27:58,084 –> 00:28:03,044
[Ramsey Smith]: it will be very clear what my impact was in the space whereas if i’m on the big

830
00:28:01,485 –> 00:28:02,485
[Gina Riepel]: four.

831
00:28:01,516 –> 00:29:59,836

832
00:28:03,284 –> 00:28:07,204
[Ramsey Smith]: account and i’m one with a large group of people like my my worth will not

833
00:28:07,364 –> 00:28:11,924
[Ramsey Smith]: necessarily be as as readily readily visible so what that means is

834
00:28:13,204 –> 00:28:19,604
[Ramsey Smith]: and what that means is you you can often find such a fantastic entrepreneurial

835
00:28:20,404 –> 00:28:24,564
[Ramsey Smith]: personalities you know by by looking for people that are that are diverse and

836
00:28:24,644 –> 00:28:29,924
[Ramsey Smith]: have made that and have made that journey and who often you know rely more on

837
00:28:31,524 –> 00:28:36,644
[Ramsey Smith]: strength of skills versus strength of personality both those things matter to

838
00:28:36,804 –> 00:28:41,604
[Ramsey Smith]: success in life but very often if you’re that type of person you really focus on

839
00:28:41,684 –> 00:28:45,284
[Ramsey Smith]: strength of skills and so there’s i think there’s a lot of untapped

840
00:28:46,404 –> 00:28:50,644
[Ramsey Smith]: potential there that is just not being seen so i i i will i’ll end with that

841
00:28:50,724 –> 00:28:54,724
[Ramsey Smith]: because that’s been my experience in my own career and i see it i see it all the

842
00:28:54,264 –> 00:28:55,264
[Ramsey Smith]: time

843
00:28:54,740 –> 00:28:55,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

844
00:28:56,111 –> 00:28:57,111
[Martin Powell]: very well said

845
00:28:56,960 –> 00:29:04,880
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well i i guess martin and first of all jean martin thank you so much martin

846
00:29:05,280 –> 00:29:10,560
[Paul Tyler]: where should people go to learn more about what kina mutual is doing and what

847
00:29:10,340 –> 00:29:11,340
[Paul Tyler]: you’re doing

848
00:29:11,727 –> 00:29:12,727
[Unknown26]: you do

849
00:29:12,560 –> 00:29:15,040
[Paul Tyler]: yeah is there a link on your website or

850
00:29:16,800 –> 00:29:21,760
[Paul Tyler]: you know w w what’s the best way to get a perspective of of of tuna’s commitment

851
00:29:21,420 –> 00:29:22,420
[Paul Tyler]: in this area

852
00:29:24,127 –> 00:29:25,127
[Unknown26]: what

853
00:29:24,771 –> 00:29:28,691
[Martin Powell]: you can go to our website and and look at our social responsibility statement and

854
00:29:28,771 –> 00:29:32,851
[Martin Powell]: our de d and i initiatives on our website

855
00:29:33,891 –> 00:29:37,491
[Martin Powell]: and then you can also gene is leading

856
00:29:37,407 –> 00:29:38,407
[Unknown26]: what

857
00:29:38,531 –> 00:29:42,451
[Martin Powell]: the diversity equity inclusion board at isa

858
00:29:42,340 –> 00:29:43,340
[Paul Tyler]: yeah and it

859
00:29:43,491 –> 00:29:46,451
[Martin Powell]: you can go there for a wealth of information as well

860
00:29:46,820 –> 00:29:47,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

861
00:29:47,891 –> 00:29:53,971
[Martin Powell]: and then the coalition of equity in wholesaler with another good uh resource

862
00:29:55,471 –> 00:29:56,471
[Martin Powell]: to get information

863
00:29:56,800 –> 00:30:01,120
[Paul Tyler]: terrific and gina thank you so much what’s the best way for people to get

864
00:30:00,940 –> 00:30:01,940
[Paul Tyler]: in touch with you

865
00:30:01,196 –> 00:30:02,316

866
00:30:01,567 –> 00:30:02,567
[Unknown26]: what that

867
00:30:01,780 –> 00:30:02,780
[Paul Tyler]: they have questions

868
00:30:02,344 –> 00:30:03,344
[Ramsey Smith]: question

869
00:30:02,960 –> 00:30:07,840
[Paul Tyler]: or want to share experiences or get in touch and find find mentors or sponsors

870
00:30:10,100 –> 00:30:11,100
[Paul Tyler]: i think

871
00:30:10,624 –> 00:30:11,624
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

872
00:30:10,900 –> 00:30:11,900
[Paul Tyler]: i email

873
00:30:11,147 –> 00:30:12,827
[Unknown26]: uh they could always email me

874
00:30:12,420 –> 00:30:13,420
[Paul Tyler]: inter

875
00:30:12,987 –> 00:30:15,867
[Unknown26]: at gert riou dot com

876
00:30:16,167 –> 00:30:17,167
[Unknown26]: or call me on

877
00:30:16,324 –> 00:30:20,324
[Ramsey Smith]: me on michelle seven one three eight two five seven three three three

878
00:30:16,660 –> 00:30:17,660
[Paul Tyler]: oh

879
00:30:17,147 –> 00:30:19,947
[Unknown26]: michelle seven one three eight two five seven

880
00:30:19,740 –> 00:30:20,740
[Paul Tyler]: uh oh

881
00:30:20,007 –> 00:30:21,007
[Unknown26]: three three three

882
00:30:21,520 –> 00:30:23,040
[Paul Tyler]: are you sure you have car warranty

883
00:30:22,967 –> 00:30:23,967
[Unknown26]: i’m serious

884
00:30:23,200 –> 00:30:24,560
[Paul Tyler]: insurance okay yeah we’ll uh

885
00:30:27,360 –> 00:30:32,320
[Paul Tyler]: okay all right hey listen thanks so much uh martin gina ramsey mark thank all of

886
00:30:32,400 –> 00:30:36,960
[Paul Tyler]: our listeners and joined next week for another episode of that annuity show

887
00:30:36,660 –> 00:30:37,660
[Paul Tyler]: thanks

888
00:30:39,536 –> 00:30:40,536

Retirees, Here’s What to Consider When Buying an Annuity

February 25, 2022 2022, Media No comments

Saving for retirement is daunting enough without inflation throwing retirees a curve ball. Inflation soared in 2021, rising 6.8% year-over-year in November, the highest since 1982, according to government data. “When prices are going up, there’s less margin for error,” says Wade Pfau, a professor of retirement income at The American College of Financial Services. “Where you might have had surplus in your budget before, now there isn’t that room to absorb a less-than-ideal investment.”

Annuities are often pegged as the ideal solution for someone worried about outliving savings, but even they can come up short. Retirees turn to annuities for an immediate or future stream of guaranteed income in exchange for a lump sum or periodic payments to an insurer. The money invested in an annuity grows tax-deferred, but the payments you receive are taxed as ordinary income.

Just because an income is guaranteed doesn’t mean it’s inflation proof. “The value of an annuity’s income can still be eroded, and inflation protection through the annuity, which you pay more for, isn’t always the best solution,” Pfau says. Plus, fees, returns and other conditions vary widely depending on the company and the type of annuity. To sort through the sales pitches, you’ll need to understand how to evaluate these products and pair them with annuity strategies to keep your retirement income ahead of rising prices.

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Where the confusion comes in with annuities

Q: Do annuity payments increase with inflation?

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