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[Paul Tyler]: Hi, this is Paul Tyler, and welcome to a. another episode of that annuity show
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[Paul Tyler]: and uh, uh, Mark Ramsey, good to see you.
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: as always great being here
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[Ramsey Smith]: Great to be here. Always
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, and uh, you know. every once in a while you know we. we see breaking news
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[Paul Tyler]: and we say Wow, look at this. Our, Our, The Our universes are colliding and Um.
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[Paul Tyler]: in um,
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[Paul Tyler]: uh, A Ms. news actually came across. Uh, recently released an article entitled
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[Paul Tyler]: The annuity providers see growth opportunity in U. S retirement Plan changes. We’ve
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[Paul Tyler]: been talking about the secure act. We’ve been talking about the opportunity in
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[Paul Tyler]: in, uh in in some of the the institutional retirement plans, And who’s ▁quoted.
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[Paul Tyler]: But we have a picture of Bruno Car and Bruno. welcome to a show.
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[Bruno Caron]: thank you great to be back here
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, D, no, lovely and uh, Martin Powell, uh, from CUNA Mutual, who is head of
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[Paul Tyler]: the Unity distribution. Martin, We got you on as well, Martin. Welcome.
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[Martin Powell]: to be back could seeing everybody
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, yeah, glad to have you. So two two regular, uh, guests now, Martin. you’re
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[Paul Tyler]: now regular on the show, Um, we, we’ll put that in our show notes. Um, but uh,
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[Paul Tyler]: uh, real interesting opportunity. thought it was timely to talk about. Only you
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[Paul Tyler]: know W. how big is this market going? How quick is it going to change? And and
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[Paul Tyler]: just generally you know where’s the annuity industry going Toead In the next you
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[Paul Tyler]: know, couple of quarters. Given all the turmoil. Um, so um, Ramsey. How kind ofl
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[Paul Tyler]: have you lead off? This is uh, an important area for you in a lot of focus.
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure,
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[Paul Tyler]: Um, where shall we start
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[Ramsey Smith]: so I think maybe the the biggest potential opportunity in the retirement
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[Ramsey Smith]: income space is with four one plans, so implant annuities and it’s an area
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[Ramsey Smith]: that’s been under developed for a variety of reasons. Part of it that uh
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[Ramsey Smith]: hopefully has been cured by the advent of the secure act, But there’s still
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[Ramsey Smith]: a whole lot more work to do in the space and uh, so I was fascinated when I
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[Ramsey Smith]: saw this article that featured Uh. Bruno and Martin, You know, talking about
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[Ramsey Smith]: where what the potential is there. I think that’s I think it is. Uh. I think
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[Ramsey Smith]: is is the one place that might help to save the retirement income problem
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[Ramsey Smith]: that we have you know across the broadest possible audience. So uh, from my
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[Ramsey Smith]: perspective, this is this is. This may be the most most important mission of
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[Ramsey Smith]: the insurance industry. So Martin and Bruno, you guys are on the front
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[Ramsey Smith]: lines. Uh, and you know you know, Martin, You know you are. You run an annuity
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[Ramsey Smith]: distribution, So you, you know very much. What’s what’s Uh, You know what’s
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[Ramsey Smith]: on the horizon for Cuna Bruno. You have a fantastic perspective across the
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[Ramsey Smith]: industry In your role at a M. best, so we’re just we’re really looking
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[Ramsey Smith]: forward to hearing from both of you One. your perspectives on what you’re
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[Ramsey Smith]: seeing, and too, your perspective on where you think you’d like to see.
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[Ramsey Smith]: You’d like to see things go. So so Martin, why do we start with you and and
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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin? even though you were just on our last show? Please re, introduce
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[Ramsey Smith]: yourself a little bit. because we, we have the the benefit of doing back to
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[Ramsey Smith]: back recordings today, which has been great.
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[Martin Powell]: well thanks thanks for having me back and it’s martin powell i’m responsible for
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[Martin Powell]: annuity distribution for community cut a mutual group historically been focused
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[Martin Powell]: just on credit unions now’ outside with independent and bank broker dealers
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[Martin Powell]: selling our annuity products and uh we’re growing
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[Martin Powell]: to be a top twenty an new distributor in the country and we’re really bullish on
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[Martin Powell]: the annuity market because it really drives at our mission to help people get
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[Martin Powell]: access to a brighter financial future and
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[Martin Powell]: we really see that this
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[Martin Powell]: opportunity
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[Martin Powell]: to continue to grow not only through financial advisers because its annuities
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[Martin Powell]: today are sold through a financial advisor sitting face to face with somebody
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[Martin Powell]: who is near retirement or in retirement talking about income protection
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[Martin Powell]: and as all of us on this call know that annuity is the only product in the world
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[Martin Powell]: that provides a personal pension and the best longevity insurance you can
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[Martin Powell]: get
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[Martin Powell]: but now introducing it to a four hundred one thousand plan it’s just powerful
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[Martin Powell]: especially if you can
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[Martin Powell]: you know similar to what they do now in four hundred one thousand plans they you
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[Martin Powell]: have to opt out
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[Martin Powell]: versus opt in and we’ve seen the numbers change dramatically with four four o one
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[Martin Powell]: k um
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[Martin Powell]: same thing here where you they can opt they need to opt out potentially of
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[Martin Powell]: getting annuity because once again people need this product and their portfolio
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[Martin Powell]: and it’s going to raise the awareness it’s gonna get more people educated
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[Martin Powell]: on protecting
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[Martin Powell]: their income stream and protecting against longevity so i think it’s really
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[Martin Powell]: exciting to see the development and for us as a company to work on our strategy
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[Martin Powell]: to ultimately at some point in time induce space as well to get not just with the
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[Martin Powell]: financial advisers but to ultimately get with the plan sponsors and the ultimate
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[Martin Powell]: employees
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[Martin Powell]: getting opportunities to protect their um retirement
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[Paul Tyler]: and Bruno Ramsey said, I love his declaration. The biggest opportunity that
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[Paul Tyler]: the annuity industry faces
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[Paul Tyler]: the next five to ten years, true or false,
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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true
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[Bruno Caron]: and uh you know definitely echoing ah Ramsey and and martin comments uh j just
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[Bruno Caron]: earlier and
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[Martin Powell]: no
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[Bruno Caron]: it it’s is nice for for us as as as rating analysts i mean obviously the the biggest
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[Bruno Caron]: product we offer at the
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[Bruno Caron]: but at the same time it is important for us
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[Bruno Caron]: you know to to always get back to fundamentals
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[Bruno Caron]: and
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: you know we always we always in constant conversations with our colleagues on the
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[Bruno Caron]: on the pnc side and you know this whole concept of risk cooling is so fundamental
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[Bruno Caron]: and the you know most people i know uh will earn more in a year than the value of
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[Bruno Caron]: their car
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[Bruno Caron]: and that that’s just you know you know people who make fifty thousand dollars
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[Bruno Caron]: will most likely have a card that’s worth a little less than that uh a hundred
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[Bruno Caron]: thousand dollars two hundred thousand dollars whatever your number is
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[Bruno Caron]: and yet people risk pool the risk of
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[Bruno Caron]: uh damaging their car if their car you know they have an accident and they have
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[Bruno Caron]: you know the risk pool that that risk through car insurance
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[Bruno Caron]: and
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes
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[Bruno Caron]: you know think about earnings when it make sense to risk pool that the value of
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[Bruno Caron]: earnings you know if you outlive
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[Bruno Caron]: your your your life expectancy by one year
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[Bruno Caron]: two years a decade two decades uh
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[Bruno Caron]: doesn’t it make sense to have that type of risk pooling you know w within your
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[Bruno Caron]: retirement planning and i think the answer is yes i think you know to go back to
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[Bruno Caron]: your question
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[Bruno Caron]: true absolutely true i think it’s a huge opportunity the
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[Bruno Caron]: the insurance industry has you know at at the forefront and there’s been a lot of
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[Bruno Caron]: improvement there’s been a lot of development you mentioned so i think it’s it’s
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[Bruno Caron]: a very very exciting time for for lifetime income
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[Ramsey Smith]: So should we revisit this? this idea of opting versus opt out, because I
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[Ramsey Smith]: think it’s a very importantlynch in in whether or not this works. So so
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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin, you mentioned, Uh, opt out as being part of the future. Um,
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[Ramsey Smith]: how important do you think that is to the success of of impuities?
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[Ramsey Smith]: If if consumers can simply elect or or have to elect in order to get
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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income?
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[Ramsey Smith]: what kind of what kind of take rates would youpo More orders of magnitude,
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[Ramsey Smith]: not’ not looking for specific statistics, But how much of a difference do
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[Ramsey Smith]: you think it makes you know based on your your years of experience,
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[Martin Powell]: it makes a tremendous difference that if people
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[Martin Powell]: have tot out and go their way they’re going to be so much more successful of of
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[Martin Powell]: saving in their four one k plan and take advantage of the benefits of a form one
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[Martin Powell]: k and the same thing here um
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[Martin Powell]: they need to ensure
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[Martin Powell]: their income for your life and
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: alright good morning everybody
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[Martin Powell]: great analogy about car insurance right
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh
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[Martin Powell]: there’s no opt out or apt in based on your f i mean many people
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: on
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[Martin Powell]: financially
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: uh one
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[Martin Powell]: they they they have to get car insurance right it’s not you can’t
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[Martin Powell]: go down
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i
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[Martin Powell]: to a state
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[Martin Powell]: so it’s just it’s it’s so important that
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: s
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[Martin Powell]: you know the
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: trees
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[Martin Powell]: the power of insurance
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[Martin Powell]: is is pooling pulling your wrist
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[Martin Powell]: and y you
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Martin Powell]: got to educate people on it so i i opted out to me is
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[Martin Powell]: is the game changer here and it really
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[Ramsey Smith]: So
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[Martin Powell]: sobs it solves the
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[Martin Powell]: the uh the pension crisis in this country
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[Paul Tyler]: Yp.
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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social
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[Ramsey Smith]: so I, I always like the ask of the question of people. So is social
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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?
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[Ramsey Smith]: security? Is it optrupt out?
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[Ramsey Smith]: Actuallyly, just opt
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[Martin Powell]: that’s right
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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re in. right,
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[Martin Powell]: exactly where in
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[Ramsey Smith]: not optional, right, uh,
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[Ramsey Smith]: the, the the find define pension benefit plans when they existed like you
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: know, optional, y or nay,
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[Ramsey Smith]: nay,
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: right
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[Martin Powell]: yes
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[Ramsey Smith]: right.
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,
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[Ramsey Smith]: So arguably those are the two most successful, at least two of the most
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[Ramsey Smith]: successful retirement income. Uh, sort of Uh platforms
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you
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[Ramsey Smith]: right. So D v plans obviously are being phased out, but they have been
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[Ramsey Smith]: successful in their
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: your
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[Ramsey Smith]: lifetime. They have successfully achieved what they’re supposed to do as a
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[Ramsey Smith]: social security. So they, they all have in common is common
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: okay
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[Ramsey Smith]: is that they’re they’re mandatory. And so
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: oh
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know, to your point, Martin, it’s hard to see how how imple annuities
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[Ramsey Smith]: are going to
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[Ramsey Smith]: be successful. I think it’s either going to be binary area, they fail
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[Ramsey Smith]: completely. arere going to be very successful.
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[Ramsey Smith]: And And and it’s probably because they will. They will. precisely this
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[Ramsey Smith]: reason that you’ve highlighted that they will be uh, not optional.
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[Paul Tyler]: well, let’s play it forward, Ramsey.
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[Ramsey Smith]: Mhm,
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[Paul Tyler]: let’s assume a world where
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[Paul Tyler]: it is there’. It’s opt
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: there’s a
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[Paul Tyler]: out or it’s you have no choice. Um, let’s say, let’s let’s say it mirrors the
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[Paul Tyler]: four K. It’s an opt out type situation. I know Marin, Bru, Mark I, what is this
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[Paul Tyler]: do for the individual advisor? Help hurt
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[Paul Tyler]: the the sale of individual anuities,
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i i personally think long term yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: i think it helps all at all else being equal regardless of the shape or form of
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[Bruno Caron]: you know you know the that relationship the conversation whatever it is
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[Bruno Caron]: people will need some sort of advice people will
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[Bruno Caron]: we’ll need
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[Bruno Caron]: advice in one
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: let’s see
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[Bruno Caron]: way or another now this may you know this may challenge you know
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: but yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: the current environment that it may or may it may not it remains to be seen
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[Bruno Caron]: but that that advice that thinking that’s shopping i mean you know
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: what
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[Bruno Caron]: there’s a lot of value added there to to have that that knowledge and the average
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: person doesn’t necessarily have that
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[Bruno Caron]: you know that
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[Bruno Caron]: that knowledge and that goes back to your original you know discussion on opt in
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[Bruno Caron]: opt out you know i always think of myself
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[Bruno Caron]: buying things where i’m not i’m you know i’m not an expert it’s not something i
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[Ramsey Smith]: Think might no buying
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[Bruno Caron]: think about every day
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see
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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very
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[Bruno Caron]: and that default option is is very
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[Ramsey Smith]: every day and
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[Bruno Caron]: is very important
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yes
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[Bruno Caron]: and it really
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[Bruno Caron]: you know it really guides without even knowing um but at the end of the day that
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[Ramsey Smith]: guled
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[Bruno Caron]: that that knowledge
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: is
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: he
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[Bruno Caron]: is is is key
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i agree i mean i think
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, more.
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the key i think the key is really the educational process going into it because
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: even if you think about outside of the qualified plan marketplace and look at
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: look at the hurdle with advisors in terms of changing the mindset from an
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: accumulation focus strategy to a distribution focus strategy and that challenge
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: still ongoing in terms of you know how to how to put that right structure in
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: place and then you bring it now to the consumer level that it has always looked
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: at four hundred one k plans as purely an accumulation strategy i think the key is
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: really going to be number one educating up front making sure
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that that they understand the value behind that and to Ramsey’s point that the
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[Bruno Caron]: oh
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: successful programs that are you know not opted in and guaranteed you know have
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: been really the the foot sholes of of successful retirement over the years
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: i think the other interesting challenge is and it’s always been interesting to to
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see the disconnect that people have as it relates to what the equitable income
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: lifetime income is from an accumulated asset and i think it’s really important to
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: make sure that people understand going into it the value of that in terms of what
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: this projection can generate going down the road and the key is going to be that
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: point of of education up front i think
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, Mar, Martin, I got a friend, Uh, a call from a friend of mine who actually
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: um
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[Paul Tyler]: retired from at life and said, Oh, Paul, uh, you actually made it. He was on the
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[Paul Tyler]: Def Benefit and he got his pension. he said, Oh, I just got this forum telling
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[Paul Tyler]: me how much money I’m going to. This converts into what are? Are you see? Any
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: so
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[Paul Tyler]: advisers? Taking advantage of this is an opportunity to go and talk to people
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[Paul Tyler]: about an noities,
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[Martin Powell]: i i had not had any opportunity or or been told by any
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: see
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[Martin Powell]: advisor about them
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: never
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[Martin Powell]: take the opportunity to go out but
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: that
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[Martin Powell]: when you you think about
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[Martin Powell]: you know ten million households control probably ninety plus percent of the
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[Martin Powell]: wealth in this country right and that’s primarily where financial advisors are
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[Martin Powell]: all right there’s a hundred and thirty million households in this country so this
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[Martin Powell]: think now if they have an annuity
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[Martin Powell]: for more people have four hundred one ks because we’re making them opt out just
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[Martin Powell]: think the need for the
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[Ramsey Smith]: be
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[Martin Powell]: advice one
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[Martin Powell]: now you’re not working anymore and you gotta climb down the mountain with your
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[Martin Powell]: accumulation
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[Martin Powell]: it’s just gonna right raise the tide and need for advice
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[Martin Powell]: so i i just
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[Martin Powell]: it’s it’s just exciting that it’s gonna it’s gonna raise the need for advice
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[Paul Tyler]: Okay, w. one of my first jobs was a management consultant. So Bruno, I’m very
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[Paul Tyler]: good at slides and Marin. I’m really good at spreadsheets. Him. Say anything
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[Bruno Caron]: what specific
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[Paul Tyler]: right, so the article says,
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[Paul Tyler]: Seven point three trillion dollars, or sitting there in the four o one k market
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[Paul Tyler]: Marin. I’ve got a plan to get you to. I’m going to get two percent of that
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[Paul Tyler]: market
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[Bruno Caron]: what
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[Paul Tyler]: for your company. Uh, is this an opportunity when you, when you size this thing
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[Paul Tyler]: out, Is this a a
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[Paul Tyler]: crawl, walk, or or a run imperative for most Uh, nodity companies today you’re
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[Paul Tyler]: not not speaking for Ka, but speaking for you know, your the colleagues, your
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[Paul Tyler]: colls cross the across the country.
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[Martin Powell]: i i i think it’s a initial crawl
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[Martin Powell]: f for us and and its probably part of our
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[Martin Powell]: our dna
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[Martin Powell]: to get to get it right you know just because we’re in the in the business of of
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[Martin Powell]: risk so i think it’ll be a crawl and an acceleration in in
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[Martin Powell]: if you just think about products like somebody’s got to go take the risk and they
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[Martin Powell]: see the success we all come in
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[Martin Powell]: and develop and innovate and bring products and we and then finally it becomes a
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[Martin Powell]: market and we start innovating back and forth between the companies a competitive
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[Martin Powell]: perspective so that’s what i see happening here
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[Paul Tyler]: Ramsey should be a really fast crawl.
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[Martin Powell]: eight
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[Ramsey Smith]: Um. I, I think it should be, but I’m I’m biased. Uh, I think I think there
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[Ramsey Smith]: will be people that are
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[Ramsey Smith]: the
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[Martin Powell]: picture
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[Ramsey Smith]: leaders and the people that are that are fast followers and people that that
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[Ramsey Smith]: are that are happy coming sort of further back and everybody has their own.
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[Ramsey Smith]: You know reasons for that. Uh, I. I. I do think that we
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[Ramsey Smith]: just need to make sure that we have some leaders. Some folks that are that
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[Ramsey Smith]: are getting the Uh. getting the ball rolling be cause. it’s a. It’s actually
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[Ramsey Smith]: a complicated business. It’s way more than just a product. Be cause once as
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[Ramsey Smith]: soon as you bring it into a four o one K. You say All right. Well if I bring
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[Ramsey Smith]: it into a four o one K.
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[Ramsey Smith]: Probably it’s not stand alone. Probably it’s it’s embedded in a in a target
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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund, So all the you know, all the products have been offered so far,
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[Ramsey Smith]: Including the one Martin that you mentioned usually are it’s a. It’s a
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[Ramsey Smith]: guaranteed income product or annuity embedded in a target
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: date fund. Says structure around that. there’s an entire protocol with the
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[Ramsey Smith]: way that the various members of the four one K
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[Ramsey Smith]: ecosystem have to communicate with each other. So record keepers, in this
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and we cg but somebody else
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[Ramsey Smith]: case a carer, An asset manager is probably a fiduciary, or too involved. So
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[Ramsey Smith]: its actually,
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: if you know is there suggested
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s actually much more than a product sale. It is a
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like me
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[Ramsey Smith]: platform sale, And that, so, from my perspective is that everybody should be
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[Ramsey Smith]: figuring out the platform part now, because the product parts the easy part.
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,
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[Paul Tyler]: Y platform is really interesting, Ramsy, Bruno. You know how many hundreds of of
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[Paul Tyler]: successful the nody companies are there today, Because you know, we, we sell
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[Paul Tyler]: through thousands of advisers, Right, hundreds of different distribution
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[Paul Tyler]: channels.
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[Paul Tyler]: How many how many players you think can occupy and actually be successful in
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[Paul Tyler]: space? Is that five or ten is twenty? Is it you know? is there a limit?
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[Bruno Caron]: all right
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[Bruno Caron]: the the the markets will dictate those those limits i i think there’s room for a
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[Bruno Caron]: lot you you you
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[Bruno Caron]: mentioned it that seven point three trillion dollars there’s room out there for
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah that’s what i speak
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[Bruno Caron]: you know for for many players
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[Bruno Caron]: for some competition in for for an actual market
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[Bruno Caron]: to Ramsey’s point
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[Bruno Caron]: everything in in retirement planning has to be part of a comprehensive plan and
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[Bruno Caron]: it’s not just about you know market risk longevity risk inflation risk it’s its
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[Bruno Caron]: about all of the above and um you know i i think that you know some of those
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[Bruno Caron]: risks and and some of those uh considerations have been that it have been studied
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[Bruno Caron]: have you know and are available you know to to the consumers
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[Bruno Caron]: it’s that part on on on lifetime income that i believe is lacking currently is it
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[Bruno Caron]: gonna be a fast crawl
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[Bruno Caron]: we we we certainly can hope for it and uh
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah
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[Bruno Caron]: but but but i think it’s it’s it’s on it’s on all of us to to make sure that you
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[Bruno Caron]: know a crisis doesn’t happen in
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[Bruno Caron]: twenty years where you know all all of a sudden you know people just keep on
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[Bruno Caron]: waking up in the morning
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[Bruno Caron]: very old and you just ran out of money
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[Bruno Caron]: we don’t need to wait for that to happen and we can act
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[Bruno Caron]: and i think we can do that as a as an industry
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[Bruno Caron]: but
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[Bruno Caron]: exciting times to say the least
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah, well, we’re near the end of our time mark. final last question. thoughts
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[Paul Tyler]: on the topic
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: yeah i guess two thoughts number one bruno have you seen any kind of modeling
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: like allocation modeling programs out there that that individuals can work with
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and second do you think that we’ll see an evolution similar to what we have on
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: the individual annuity side with income writers kind of being the first
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: leg of this but then all all of a sudden you see care benefits coming out of it
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: and death benefits coming on to it you think you’ll see the similar evolution
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: from that standpoint
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[Bruno Caron]: on your first question
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[Bruno Caron]: yes there are like th those those tools out there uh you know and i think
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[Bruno Caron]: i i think of of those tools as not necessarily a silver bullett but it it is
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[Bruno Caron]: something that really helps you
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[Bruno Caron]: develop a comprehensive plan
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[Bruno Caron]: ask the right questions
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[Ramsey Smith]: The
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[Bruno Caron]: make sure that as a
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[Bruno Caron]: consumer you don’t get blank
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[Ramsey Smith]: make sure that at
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[Bruno Caron]: sided by something you haven’t thought about so i i definitely
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[Ramsey Smith]: you get like, by and by something.
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[Ramsey Smith]: So I
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[Bruno Caron]: encourage you everyone to use those tools and some of the guests that you’ve had
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[Bruno Caron]: on the on the show have have developed their their own and you know with uh with
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[Bruno Caron]: with with with multiple um
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[Bruno Caron]: other other peers so yes they’re out there and yes i believe
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[Ramsey Smith]: there?
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[Bruno Caron]: there’s going to be uh more uh more more coming and yes they are
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[Bruno Caron]: they are very helpful
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[Bruno Caron]: uh on your
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[Bruno Caron]: you know on on your on your second questions
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[Bruno Caron]: yes i i you know i believe there there is capacity there
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[Bruno Caron]: i do believe that market is going to to to grow and
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[Bruno Caron]: and evolve
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[Bruno Caron]: you know there’s appetite
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[Bruno Caron]: on both sides you know there is appetite for for capital intensive business
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[Bruno Caron]: there is all those fixed income assets that are that are ready to be to be
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[Bruno Caron]: deployed
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[Bruno Caron]: so i think everything is is out there for
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[Bruno Caron]: for for for success
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: great thank you
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[Paul Tyler]: Ramsy.
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[Mark Fitzgerald]: you
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[Ramsey Smith]: uh, so yeah,
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[Ramsey Smith]: I, uh. I’ll say it again. I think this is the. I think
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[Martin Powell]: one
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[Ramsey Smith]: this is the biggest opportunity that we have right now. Uh, I think it is an
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[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity for the industry, I think is an opportunity for America. Most
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[Ramsey Smith]: importantly,
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[Ramsey Smith]: and
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[Ramsey Smith]: I, we just need people to of put themselves out there and try and make it
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[Ramsey Smith]: work. They’ already, by our count, by our teams, count eight or nine
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[Ramsey Smith]: offerings right up up and running. Um,
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[Ramsey Smith]: some have made announcements, but uh, not clear that products have been
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[Ramsey Smith]: filed yet. It’s still early days. It’s still very early days and I think
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[Ramsey Smith]: that uh
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[Ramsey Smith]: people that jump out in front and learn how to navigate what is a very very
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[Ramsey Smith]: different distribution channel. Early, Um, will put themselves in a position
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[Ramsey Smith]: to succeed in a market to Bruno’s point, That is big enough for a lot of
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[Ramsey Smith]: players.
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[Bruno Caron]: it is
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah is great, Uh, Martin. thanks for joining us and thanks for sharing your
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[Paul Tyler]: perspective. If people want to get in touch with what, what’s the best way for
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[Paul Tyler]: for people to uh, reach out to you?
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[Martin Powell]: you can reach me martin dpu at kuntu dot com
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[Paul Tyler]: Excellent. All right,
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[Ramsey Smith]: Martin. Great to have you back again
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[Paul Tyler]: Yeah,
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[Ramsey Smith]: and twice
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[Martin Powell]: it could be back yes
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[Bruno Caron]: let’s listen
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[Ramsey Smith]: double trouble awesome.
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[Paul Tyler]: thanks and and burn up for you. best way to reach. Uh, reach you.
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[Bruno Caron]: same emails good linkedin’s good um
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[Bruno Caron]: so they’re
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[Bruno Caron]: bruno backing at aves plus the the linkedin’s always there um anytime
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[Paul Tyler]: Okay. great, and we’ll also put a a link to your book again. Everybody should
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[Paul Tyler]: buy the book and and read it if they uh want to understand how this market works
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[Paul Tyler]: with the opportunity, Thanks so much, Martin Bruno thinks everybody thans our
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[Paul Tyler]: listeners, and Uh join Skin next week for another episode of that annuity show.
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[Bruno Caron]: thank you
That Annuity Show
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