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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and
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[Paul Tyler]: ramsey good to see you
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[Ramsey Smith]: always glad to be here
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[Paul Tyler]: and we have a
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[Paul Tyler]: almost regular guest returning guest do you wanna do you wanna do the intro here
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure so time ago i think this is this is at least your third time here and um you
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[Ramsey Smith]: know we should do something like on saturday night live like when you get on when
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[Ramsey Smith]: you host for five times you get like a jacket or something like that so we’re
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[Ramsey Smith]: so third time i think end counting right
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[Ramsey Smith]: delighted to have you back for those of you who don’t know Tamiko Toland she is the
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[Ramsey Smith]: director of retirement markets at k x k x is a leading provider of data for the
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[Ramsey Smith]: insurance life insurance industry and the annuity industry in particular
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[Ramsey Smith]: and Tamiko’s influence
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[Ramsey Smith]: is really remarkable it spans retail and increasingly institutional and that’s
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[Ramsey Smith]: what we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: today is
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[Ramsey Smith]: a lot a lot of the progress that’s going on in what is probably the biggest
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[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity in the guaranteed income space
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[Tamiko Toland]: space
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[Ramsey Smith]: and
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[Ramsey Smith]: the core work that Tamiko her team and her affiliates to doing to get us
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[Ramsey Smith]: there so with that Tamiko
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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s not something
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[Ramsey Smith]: tell us about some of the things that you’ve been you’ve been up to lately
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[Tamiko Toland]: sure
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[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know you
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[Tamiko Toland]: so before i i dive right into the four one key space i’ll
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: mention a couple pieces that came out recently
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[Tamiko Toland]: and one was for investments and wealth monitor and it’s
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[Paul Tyler]: it about nine
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[Tamiko Toland]: really just about the validity of replacing
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[Tamiko Toland]: some or all the fixed income allocation and retirement with a guaranteed income
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[Tamiko Toland]: source and i say it like that because we did the research on based on spa but you
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[Tamiko Toland]: can replace other annuities as well so but still always
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Tamiko Toland]: annuities but
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[Paul Tyler]: but
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[Tamiko Toland]: that this actually
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: improves outcomes um both in terms of income sustainability and
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[Paul Tyler]: get what
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually legacy which is i th
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[Paul Tyler]: i i feel like that’s
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[Tamiko Toland]: i feel like that’s a sort of the hidden story um
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[Paul Tyler]: else
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[Tamiko Toland]: when it comes to guaranteed income that we act
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[Paul Tyler]: y
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[Tamiko Toland]: like it’s it’ going to make legacy worse but anyway so another
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[Paul Tyler]: another
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[Tamiko Toland]: piece uh that i’ve done recently is uh for the journal of pension benefits and it
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[Tamiko Toland]: is on the topic of four hundred thousand that’s been a huge focus of mine over
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[Tamiko Toland]: the last couple of years and we’re very excited to be involved in the lifetime
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[Tamiko Toland]: income consortium where we’re really going to be focusing on this topic with a
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[Tamiko Toland]: group of member companies
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[Tamiko Toland]: this the administrative home for this is broad ridge fi three hundred sixty
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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions and we’re also working with another
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[Tamiko Toland]: friend of the show michelle rector at fiduciary insurance uh services and so yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: happy to talk about any and all that
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[Paul Tyler]: excellent
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[Paul Tyler]: four one k has been a really interesting topic over a number of years actually
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[Paul Tyler]: years ramsey remember i think we did a podcast way back when episode number seven
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[Paul Tyler]: if you want to look and i think when the secure act came out
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[Paul Tyler]: and you think okay two years what’s happened
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[Paul Tyler]: a lot of companies have sort of
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[Paul Tyler]: looked at this opportunity
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[Paul Tyler]: we see some entrances i’ll leave you know rams you can sort of talk about the
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[Paul Tyler]: industry
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[Tamiko Toland]: sometimes
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[Paul Tyler]: landscape but just in the last like two days i’ve had some real
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Paul Tyler]: interesting inbounds to i
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[Paul Tyler]: one was uh you know a writer for for forbes chris caruso saying looking for
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[Paul Tyler]: people’s
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[Paul Tyler]: answers to a question of what will really make this sales happen in the k space
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[Paul Tyler]: i’ll talk to some other questions again but let’s just kind of throw that out
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[Paul Tyler]: what will
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[Paul Tyler]: or what won’t make uh annuities and four hundred one ks work i don’t know which
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[Paul Tyler]: way you want to take it ramsay don’t know
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[Ramsey Smith]: well i’m taking notes ’cause as you mentioned this is this is an area of primary
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[Ramsey Smith]: focus for
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: for me and my in my company and and uh i i have i have some theories
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[Ramsey Smith]: and very interested to hear tom’s input give me some idea about at least what
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[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve tabulated in terms of i’ll call it deals announced
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Ramsey Smith]: right and and they’re in various stages of actual execution but we recently added
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[Ramsey Smith]: up all everything we could find in the press and there’s something like sixty
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[Ramsey Smith]: billion dollars worth of announcements
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that are in in in the space
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[Tamiko Toland]: that was so that’s
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[Ramsey Smith]: so’s not that’s not that’s not huge given the seven trillion opportunity
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: but it’s not insignificant and my guess is it will continue to grow but how we
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[Ramsey Smith]: get there that’s what tomic is going to share with us so so what do you think
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[Paul Tyler]: yes maybe tom yeah start with what won’t try i don’t know
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Paul Tyler]: i’m fascinated to get your your impression
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[Tamiko Toland]: well i i’m gonna take a step back about a decade um in two thousand twelve i
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually wrote a report on in planned guarantees when i was at strategic insight
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[Tamiko Toland]: because
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[Tamiko Toland]: it was a very hot topic and it was about
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[Paul Tyler]: you think read
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Tamiko Toland]: to explode right we all felt like this is necessary it’s beneficial um to
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[Tamiko Toland]: participants right in particular like that’s where a lot of the conversation
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[Tamiko Toland]: focuses
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: is
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[Tamiko Toland]: there
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[Paul Tyler]: you were a lot
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[Tamiko Toland]: were a lot of different companies that were coming out
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[Paul Tyler]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: with initiatives
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[Paul Tyler]: i i have one
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[Tamiko Toland]: that were going to make a big difference and they were really
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: designing around the challenges and
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the big one at that time
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[Paul Tyler]: big one time
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[Tamiko Toland]: was
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[Paul Tyler]: play
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[Tamiko Toland]: eins bernstein and the lifetime income strategy which they
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually did get placed as a qa and i’ll explain that a that as a qualified
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[Paul Tyler]: place
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[Tamiko Toland]: default’ investment
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[Tamiko Toland]: alternative right and so this is where
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[Paul Tyler]: wow that was great great branding qualified default wow okay sorry
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[Tamiko Toland]: well it is cause it’s a default
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[Paul Tyler]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: right and this has everything to do with the
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[Tamiko Toland]: all the money in motion um within four o one k plans i mean the target date fund
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[Tamiko Toland]: has become the mainstay and it is because of their use as a q dia right and all
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[Tamiko Toland]: these things are are completely related but
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[Paul Tyler]: but it might
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[Tamiko Toland]: it’s funny because you know at the time
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[Tamiko Toland]: i did this research it was more
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[Paul Tyler]: walk
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[Tamiko Toland]: qualitative research where i talked to folks who were involved and collected
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[Tamiko Toland]: information about the different solutions that were out there and so forth and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: said okay well you know this is foundational and then we’re gonna be you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: going up from here and then it just seemed to stall out and
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[Paul Tyler]: wa
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[Tamiko Toland]: despite the efforts with lines burning in their success with the uc plan which is
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[Tamiko Toland]: now part of raytheon so people refer to it as raytheon because they did implement
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[Tamiko Toland]: it
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah it
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[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s been very successful as such it’s they’ve continued and and full
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[Tamiko Toland]: disclosure they are a client of ours so
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know so what’s happened in the last decade why hasn’t it taken off and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: think there are probably a thousand different smaller reasons
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: that would
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[Tamiko Toland]: that was one of the the um
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the
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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the
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[Tamiko Toland]: story
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[Tamiko Toland]: story
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[Paul Tyler]: excuse
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[Tamiko Toland]: and we really pen a lot of the changes on the secure act and i i i do think it’s
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[Tamiko Toland]: helpful and it’s certainly um beneficial
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[Tamiko Toland]: but the reality is that there are a lot of other um
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[Tamiko Toland]: like through
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: lines in the industry that are coming together and
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: i kind of want to get to
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[Tamiko Toland]: why is it that plan sponsors
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[Paul Tyler]: you really
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[Tamiko Toland]: really need to consider adoption of
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income it because it the ultimate reason
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[Paul Tyler]: thank you
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[Tamiko Toland]: is not altruistic you know we don’t companies don’t have this paternalistic
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[Tamiko Toland]: attitude in general like we need to take care of people obviously we know the
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[Tamiko Toland]: trend that pensions are dissipating and they’re being
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[Tamiko Toland]: replaced by dc so naturally we need to include some kind of income solution as
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[Paul Tyler]: like like yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: part of so
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[Paul Tyler]: why not
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[Tamiko Toland]: why hasn’t it happened why
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[Paul Tyler]: he get
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[Tamiko Toland]: is it going to suddenly happen i
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[Tamiko Toland]: mean frankly in terms of the economic environment
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[Paul Tyler]: she frankly
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[Tamiko Toland]: um when people are facing uncertainty and
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[Paul Tyler]: you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i really do think that low interest rates have influences this not
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[Tamiko Toland]: something we really talk about a lot
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[Tamiko Toland]: but the methods that we use to generate income and retirement regardless of where
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[Tamiko Toland]: you’re sitting have
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[Tamiko Toland]: really deteriorated bond ladders don’t have the power that they used to so now
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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re talking about all this as
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[Tamiko Toland]: um moving
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: attitudes in the retail arena well
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[Paul Tyler]: i think
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[Tamiko Toland]: the same really applies it’s the same people right it’s just
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[Paul Tyler]: thank you
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[Tamiko Toland]: regular american workers who are saving
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[Paul Tyler]: is
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[Tamiko Toland]: and when they
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[Tamiko Toland]: approach retirement when they reach retirement age and they do not have the
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[Tamiko Toland]: confidence to retire
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[Tamiko Toland]: and they’re
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Tamiko Toland]: much more likely to stay at their companies
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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly this is a workforce management issue for companies that want to be
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[Tamiko Toland]: able to hire younger workers promote them through you can’t promote people when
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[Tamiko Toland]: there’s folks already sitting in those positions so that company life cycle
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[Tamiko Toland]: really gets stalled when you have people not retiring right and when you you have
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[Tamiko Toland]: folks that are hanging on not because they’re passionate about their work and
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[Tamiko Toland]: want
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[Paul Tyler]: was
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[Tamiko Toland]: to continue working retirement which is a very valid thing that we talk about so
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[Tamiko Toland]: much more now with you know
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: a revision of how we view retirement but when that’s not the reason people are
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[Tamiko Toland]: are sticking to their jobs
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[Paul Tyler]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i think there are a lot
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[Paul Tyler]: about
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[Tamiko Toland]: of additional workforce issues and older workers are more expensive to companies
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[Paul Tyler]: and we don’t want talk and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: and you know we don’t want to talk about this and and i really i don’t want to
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[Tamiko Toland]: make sure that i’m be careful not to speak about this from an age’s perspective
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[Tamiko Toland]: because i you know i’m also like
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[Tamiko Toland]: leaning that direction as we all are time time moves in one direction for all of
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[Tamiko Toland]: us
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[Tamiko Toland]: but you really want people to be able to enjoy the retirements that they’ve been
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[Tamiko Toland]: saving for but when you’re not giving them that confidence and you’re not giving
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[Tamiko Toland]: them lifetime income then that
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[Paul Tyler]: that is
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[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t going to happen i
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[Tamiko Toland]: haven’t answered your question but i i see ramsey taking notes and i have a
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[Paul Tyler]: i have these i pay
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[Tamiko Toland]: feeling there might be some more questions flying my way so we we’ll get there
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[Ramsey Smith]: so yes i i was gonna say that is the that is the politest version of o k boomer
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[Ramsey Smith]: i’ve ever heard
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[Ramsey Smith]: um but it’s but let me let me ask you about this so
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: um
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[Paul Tyler]: um
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[Ramsey Smith]: do you do you get the sense that that companies
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[Ramsey Smith]: hr departments
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[Ramsey Smith]: the folks that are sort of actually dealing with this particular problem you you
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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re saying this can potentially address do you think they see that yet right
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[Ramsey Smith]: do are you
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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i mean i is that a i i i’m at the end of the day at the end of the day in
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[Ramsey Smith]: order for this to work there have to be pain points right they have to be sort of
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[Ramsey Smith]: pain
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[Tamiko Toland]: that
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[Ramsey Smith]: points that people are
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[Ramsey Smith]: are determined to sort of
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[Tamiko Toland]: just
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[Ramsey Smith]: resolve and so the question is is that a big enough pain point yet you think
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[Tamiko Toland]: i
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[Paul Tyler]: i have that
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[Ramsey Smith]: i i think that that
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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that it’s a combination of factors and
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: yes
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: i do think that
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[Ramsey Smith]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue
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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue
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[Tamiko Toland]: and i
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[Ramsey Smith]: and i
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[Paul Tyler]: and i think it it just something something like
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[Tamiko Toland]: think and i don’t forget there’s also
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[Ramsey Smith]: like that
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[Tamiko Toland]: like the there’s the
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[Paul Tyler]: parent
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[Tamiko Toland]: carrot not just the stick that
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of
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[Tamiko Toland]: times
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[Tamiko Toland]: times
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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s what
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[Ramsey Smith]: would be hard
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[Tamiko Toland]: we talk about right
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[Tamiko Toland]: oh
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[Paul Tyler]: oh
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[Ramsey Smith]: oh
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[Tamiko Toland]: participants really want this but participants
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[Ramsey Smith]: one
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[Tamiko Toland]: wanting it isn’t necessarily enough to get
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know your
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[Tamiko Toland]: over the barrier of oh there’s risk for the sponsor and that has been where
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[Ramsey Smith]: your
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[Tamiko Toland]: a lot of the conversations have really
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[Paul Tyler]: water
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[Tamiko Toland]: revolved around and so it’s it’s some you know like it it’s a set of factors and
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[Tamiko Toland]: and one of them is
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[Paul Tyler]: born
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[Tamiko Toland]: lowering the barrier
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[Tamiko Toland]: from a risk perspective which
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[Tamiko Toland]: secure
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[Paul Tyler]: you
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[Ramsey Smith]: here i actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: act does actually uh remove
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[Tamiko Toland]: that
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: that of
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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of including a safe harb for selection of the insurer but there’s still
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[Tamiko Toland]: a big
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[Tamiko Toland]: gap
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: for implementation
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[Paul Tyler]: and it is
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[Tamiko Toland]: and it is a very significant gap which is
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[Paul Tyler]: how
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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: make the choice
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[Tamiko Toland]: and we
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[Tamiko Toland]: we
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that there are
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[Paul Tyler]: else there are right
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[Tamiko Toland]: that there are sort of tried and true methods for other other
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[Paul Tyler]: other
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[Ramsey Smith]: other friend
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[Tamiko Toland]: investments target date funds right like yes
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[Ramsey Smith]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: we understand
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[Tamiko Toland]: how
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[Ramsey Smith]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: other investment options um you know make it into a plan
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[Tamiko Toland]: um but we’re talking about something that’s not just another investment
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[Tamiko Toland]: income is a completely different conversation and it works differently it
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[Ramsey Smith]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: affects the
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[Paul Tyler]: scientific
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[Tamiko Toland]: dynamics and you know particularly because you’re talking about post retirement
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[Ramsey Smith]: dynamic
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[Tamiko Toland]: right
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[Ramsey Smith]: like the do we
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[Tamiko Toland]: that that’s really where it kicks in so how
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[Tamiko Toland]: does it behave
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[Ramsey Smith]: so how ca
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[Paul Tyler]: keep water
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[Tamiko Toland]: before retirement do we have the same expectations that we do for other
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: investments and so it’s a different mindset and so when you ask
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[Paul Tyler]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: me like what is the biggest challenge
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[Ramsey Smith]: out
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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been
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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been
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[Tamiko Toland]: working on a lot of the solutions that are necessary for example middleware
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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions which are
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[Paul Tyler]: really
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[Tamiko Toland]: really important for kind
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[Paul Tyler]: kind of
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[Tamiko Toland]: of like the connective tissue all right
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[Paul Tyler]: any
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[Tamiko Toland]: for you know getting everybody hooked up to this right and you know
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Ramsey Smith]: does that work
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[Tamiko Toland]: that market has matured significantly in the last decade right where pe you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re seeing some some very positive change right but the reality is that for the
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[Tamiko Toland]: folks who are actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: look at considering these solutions income is not their native language
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: i think that
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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that is a huge hurdle
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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of
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[Tamiko Toland]: getting
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[Tamiko Toland]: the let’s say the consultants retirement plan advisors comfortable with making
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[Tamiko Toland]: those recommendations and confident that they are doing that appropriately for
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[Tamiko Toland]: the sponsor client right and
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[Tamiko Toland]: the
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s a lot
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors have to feel like
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[Ramsey Smith]: like yeah that that makes sense it fun
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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah that that makes sense and i don’t think i just stuck
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah that’s it i
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[Ramsey Smith]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: my neck out in order to do this and it’s not simply a matter of a legislative fix
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[Tamiko Toland]: because we like we don’t need another like
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this
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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this
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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly the department of labor generally stays away from that like that you
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[Tamiko Toland]: know these things kind of evolve and the general guidelines yes but not very
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[Tamiko Toland]: specific details and particularly on a really a novel subject matter and a novel
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[Tamiko Toland]: product dynamic which is what income represents
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[Paul Tyler]: so okay when i
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[Paul Tyler]: a two part question when i think toco of the group market i think like you
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[Paul Tyler]: mentioned a company with a very you know a very big company right
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[Paul Tyler]: if you’re marketing products or retirement plans into a large company the needs
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[Paul Tyler]: start to tier like executive senior the super executive management team may have
401
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[Paul Tyler]: they may have a fee based only advisory service that helps them do
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[Tamiko Toland]: see
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[Paul Tyler]: this you to go down
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[Tamiko Toland]: or something
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[Paul Tyler]: another tier these people aren’t so they they’ve got some big balances but
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[Paul Tyler]: they’re not going to have an advisor you get down farther than the company where
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[Paul Tyler]: i think i think i heard
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[Ramsey Smith]: favorite
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[Paul Tyler]: you talking
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[Paul Tyler]: or speaking to are people who are you know they’re just trying to pay the bills
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[Paul Tyler]: oh by the way
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[Ramsey Smith]: lot of time
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[Paul Tyler]: oh gee i did have a four one k
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[Paul Tyler]: how do you do you see the segmentation
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[Paul Tyler]: the drivers of adoption being or should they
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[Ramsey Smith]: really
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[Paul Tyler]: be different based on your income inside a company
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: the thing is that the
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: really the
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[Ramsey Smith]: like that mind
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[Tamiko Toland]: mindset of thinking around this is that the
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[Ramsey Smith]: second actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: qt is the place where the assets fall because that is the you know the default
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[Tamiko Toland]: flows into the qa and that now has become target date funds right and so
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: it’s the same thing of how we think about income
430
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: now i’m
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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you john
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[Tamiko Toland]: gonna be honest with you like rich people
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[Ramsey Smith]: s
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[Tamiko Toland]: are fine right
436
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[Ramsey Smith]: right they’re knowing somebody
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[Tamiko Toland]: there’s always somebody who’s willing to give them
438
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[Tamiko Toland]: advice they they have lots of access to advice but the people who truly benefit
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[Ramsey Smith]: why have that
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: within a retirement plan are those individuals who
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[Paul Tyler]: how do i smoke but
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[Tamiko Toland]: otherwise have no access to advice or guidance or anything right and so the
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[Tamiko Toland]: default all this entire structure that we’re talking about
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[Paul Tyler]: e really
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[Paul Tyler]: e really
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[Tamiko Toland]: is really
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah sus
449
00:16:43,884 –> 00:16:44,884
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s
450
00:16:44,500 –> 00:16:45,500
[Paul Tyler]: i
451
00:16:44,744 –> 00:16:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: designed to help those individuals who are much more on the margins and if if you
452
00:16:51,164 –> 00:16:52,164
[Tamiko Toland]: have outside
453
00:16:51,900 –> 00:16:52,900
[Paul Tyler]: i like
454
00:16:52,264 –> 00:16:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: advice and your advice says no no no we have this different plan you don’t need
455
00:16:56,184 –> 00:17:00,024
[Tamiko Toland]: this you know we’ll put your money into something else that’s completely
456
00:17:00,104 –> 00:17:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: fine and that is how the
457
00:17:00,198 –> 00:17:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: why not
458
00:17:02,024 –> 00:17:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: q is structured it’s a default it’s not
459
00:17:02,098 –> 00:17:03,138
[Ramsey Smith]: out thirty
460
00:17:03,878 –> 00:17:04,878
[Ramsey Smith]: not
461
00:17:04,344 –> 00:17:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: like you’re not forced to stay in it right but but it needs to be
462
00:17:10,184 –> 00:17:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: a quality solution
463
00:17:12,824 –> 00:17:16,424
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals who may not be
464
00:17:16,038 –> 00:17:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: y
465
00:17:16,424 –> 00:17:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulating as much money in you know during their working years for retirement
466
00:17:21,460 –> 00:17:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: so
467
00:17:22,024 –> 00:17:27,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and who probably aren’t going to get other guidance right and so this is exactly
468
00:17:26,764 –> 00:17:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: why
469
00:17:27,724 –> 00:17:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: so
470
00:17:27,780 –> 00:17:28,780
[Paul Tyler]: so
471
00:17:27,958 –> 00:17:28,958
[Ramsey Smith]: so
472
00:17:28,344 –> 00:17:29,544
[Tamiko Toland]: many people are
473
00:17:29,420 –> 00:17:30,420
[Paul Tyler]: pla
474
00:17:29,784 –> 00:17:32,264
[Tamiko Toland]: passionate about this that it’s not yes
475
00:17:32,004 –> 00:17:33,004
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean
476
00:17:32,020 –> 00:17:33,020
[Paul Tyler]: i
477
00:17:32,664 –> 00:17:33,704
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s it’s great like that
478
00:17:32,738 –> 00:17:34,178
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean like the
479
00:17:33,380 –> 00:17:34,380
[Paul Tyler]: like that
480
00:17:33,844 –> 00:17:34,844
[Tamiko Toland]: from an asset gathering
481
00:17:34,838 –> 00:17:35,838
[Ramsey Smith]: now
482
00:17:34,904 –> 00:17:38,664
[Tamiko Toland]: standpoint whatever you know servicing all these people but you know you get
483
00:17:38,364 –> 00:17:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: folks
484
00:17:38,918 –> 00:17:39,918
[Ramsey Smith]: smoke
485
00:17:39,224 –> 00:17:43,384
[Tamiko Toland]: like me who care deeply about it because you see this is a fantastic
486
00:17:43,238 –> 00:17:44,238
[Ramsey Smith]: not
487
00:17:43,464 –> 00:17:44,984
[Tamiko Toland]: way to reach
488
00:17:46,264 –> 00:17:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: so many americans in a way
489
00:17:47,798 –> 00:17:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: we
490
00:17:48,344 –> 00:17:50,424
[Tamiko Toland]: that the retail space is not going to
491
00:17:51,158 –> 00:17:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: so
492
00:17:51,300 –> 00:17:52,300
[Paul Tyler]: oh
493
00:17:52,018 –> 00:17:56,978
[Ramsey Smith]: okay this is this is very you know interesting interesting element of it because
494
00:17:58,178 –> 00:18:04,658
[Ramsey Smith]: we live in a world where where this the same three the esg acronym comes up a lot
495
00:18:05,138 –> 00:18:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: it comes up in investing it comes up certainly in board work i can tell you it
496
00:18:09,938 –> 00:18:11,938
[Ramsey Smith]: comes up in a lot of different places like esg
497
00:18:13,138 –> 00:18:14,498
[Ramsey Smith]: is is on the tip of
498
00:18:14,380 –> 00:18:15,380
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
499
00:18:14,498 –> 00:18:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: everybody’s tongues because it’s it’s
500
00:18:15,878 –> 00:18:16,878
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s
501
00:18:16,044 –> 00:18:17,044
[Tamiko Toland]: expensive
502
00:18:16,260 –> 00:18:17,260
[Paul Tyler]: what
503
00:18:16,658 –> 00:18:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: important in every aspect of business now
504
00:18:19,558 –> 00:18:20,558
[Ramsey Smith]: and you know one
505
00:18:20,100 –> 00:18:21,100
[Paul Tyler]: what
506
00:18:20,638 –> 00:18:21,638
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of sleeve of
507
00:18:21,278 –> 00:18:22,278
[Ramsey Smith]: esg
508
00:18:21,300 –> 00:18:22,300
[Paul Tyler]: yes
509
00:18:21,884 –> 00:18:22,884
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s pretty
510
00:18:22,338 –> 00:18:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s often talked about is banking to the un banked and you know here we’re
511
00:18:28,498 –> 00:18:34,418
[Ramsey Smith]: talking about i don’t have as neat a catch phrase as that but it’s sort of the it
512
00:18:34,498 –> 00:18:38,658
[Ramsey Smith]: is retirement income to the un income for lack of a better way
513
00:18:39,858 –> 00:18:41,858
[Ramsey Smith]: way to describe it but i’ve i very
514
00:18:41,780 –> 00:18:42,780
[Paul Tyler]: you
515
00:18:42,178 –> 00:18:45,698
[Ramsey Smith]: rarely heard it one described as an esg issue
516
00:18:46,818 –> 00:18:51,538
[Ramsey Smith]: and two i don’t really think i’ve heard any of the the current proponents of the
517
00:18:51,158 –> 00:18:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: space
518
00:18:52,518 –> 00:18:53,518
[Ramsey Smith]: uh you
519
00:18:53,298 –> 00:18:59,218
[Ramsey Smith]: know describing it that way as as opportunistically as everybody else is using
520
00:18:53,360 –> 00:18:56,240
[Paul Tyler]: it was like that way yeah
521
00:18:59,858 –> 00:19:04,738
[Ramsey Smith]: using that acronym everywhere else in the business world so what your thoughts on
522
00:19:04,738 –> 00:19:07,298
[Ramsey Smith]: there is that a missed opportunity cause i think it’s real
523
00:19:09,164 –> 00:19:10,164
[Tamiko Toland]: um
524
00:19:12,024 –> 00:19:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m not sure i mean i i think that i
525
00:19:13,958 –> 00:19:14,958
[Ramsey Smith]: i
526
00:19:14,424 –> 00:19:15,544
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly have heard other people
527
00:19:15,238 –> 00:19:16,238
[Ramsey Smith]: it
528
00:19:15,704 –> 00:19:18,984
[Tamiko Toland]: talk about i’m not the only one who has articulated it like that
529
00:19:18,598 –> 00:19:19,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
530
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:20,500
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i
531
00:19:19,704 –> 00:19:22,584
[Tamiko Toland]: so i think there are other voices out there saying the same thing
532
00:19:23,544 –> 00:19:25,784
[Tamiko Toland]: and i definitely see that passion
533
00:19:23,600 –> 00:19:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: and i guess see that
534
00:19:26,824 –> 00:19:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: um among other stakeholders um
535
00:19:29,380 –> 00:19:30,380
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
536
00:19:30,024 –> 00:19:31,624
[Tamiko Toland]: you know is this the marketing opportunity
537
00:19:32,684 –> 00:19:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: i
538
00:19:32,980 –> 00:19:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
539
00:19:33,118 –> 00:19:34,118
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know
540
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how
541
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how
542
00:19:36,420 –> 00:19:37,420
[Paul Tyler]: how
543
00:19:38,264 –> 00:19:40,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the these solutions are going to be placed
544
00:19:41,300 –> 00:19:42,300
[Paul Tyler]: and
545
00:19:41,784 –> 00:19:42,824
[Tamiko Toland]: and that
546
00:19:43,724 –> 00:19:44,724
[Tamiko Toland]: the
547
00:19:43,980 –> 00:19:44,980
[Paul Tyler]: the can
548
00:19:44,084 –> 00:19:45,084
[Tamiko Toland]: mechanical
549
00:19:44,718 –> 00:19:45,718
[Ramsey Smith]: go back
550
00:19:44,984 –> 00:19:47,624
[Tamiko Toland]: factors the the choices
551
00:19:47,398 –> 00:19:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: this
552
00:19:47,784 –> 00:19:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that sponsors need to make
553
00:19:49,244 –> 00:19:50,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i
554
00:19:49,760 –> 00:19:52,320
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t think that that but i i think that
555
00:19:49,864 –> 00:19:52,824
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t think that that’s the thing but i do think that that drives
556
00:19:49,938 –> 00:19:52,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t think that that i think five
557
00:19:53,404 –> 00:19:54,404
[Tamiko Toland]: really
558
00:19:55,304 –> 00:19:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the legislative components right and the fact that in the regulatory
559
00:19:59,684 –> 00:20:00,684
[Tamiko Toland]: piece say we want
560
00:20:00,358 –> 00:20:01,358
[Ramsey Smith]: want be
561
00:20:00,664 –> 00:20:02,744
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this easier we w we and we
562
00:20:02,598 –> 00:20:03,598
[Ramsey Smith]: if one is
563
00:20:02,824 –> 00:20:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: want it to be safe so it’s
564
00:20:04,198 –> 00:20:05,198
[Ramsey Smith]: b
565
00:20:04,424 –> 00:20:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: balancing those interests out
566
00:20:05,638 –> 00:20:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: nine
567
00:20:06,184 –> 00:20:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: because you want to
568
00:20:07,438 –> 00:20:08,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what do you ask
569
00:20:07,624 –> 00:20:09,224
[Tamiko Toland]: increase access to all
570
00:20:09,180 –> 00:20:10,180
[Paul Tyler]: all the american
571
00:20:09,198 –> 00:20:10,198
[Ramsey Smith]: of america
572
00:20:09,384 –> 00:20:14,024
[Tamiko Toland]: these americans which is you know that’s a very good goal for our our government
573
00:20:14,824 –> 00:20:16,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know folks working there to be
574
00:20:16,500 –> 00:20:17,500
[Paul Tyler]: think
575
00:20:16,904 –> 00:20:21,144
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about and they also want to make sure that it’s done responsibly so you
576
00:20:21,100 –> 00:20:22,100
[Paul Tyler]: you know i i just
577
00:20:21,224 –> 00:20:23,144
[Tamiko Toland]: know i i think that that may be a more
578
00:20:21,298 –> 00:20:22,498
[Ramsey Smith]: you know i i think it’s that
579
00:20:23,478 –> 00:20:24,478
[Ramsey Smith]: well
580
00:20:23,704 –> 00:20:25,224
[Tamiko Toland]: relevant conversation there
581
00:20:24,820 –> 00:20:25,820
[Paul Tyler]: there
582
00:20:24,998 –> 00:20:25,998
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
583
00:20:25,764 –> 00:20:26,764
[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s a
584
00:20:26,318 –> 00:20:27,318
[Ramsey Smith]: the one i
585
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
586
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
587
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
588
00:20:28,258 –> 00:20:29,378
[Ramsey Smith]: um you know
589
00:20:28,584 –> 00:20:30,744
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know like i say when it
590
00:20:30,598 –> 00:20:31,598
[Ramsey Smith]: something
591
00:20:30,904 –> 00:20:34,184
[Tamiko Toland]: comes to building these q solutions this
592
00:20:34,184 –> 00:20:39,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is a different way of thinking about income than we’re really accustomed to in
593
00:20:34,258 –> 00:20:35,698
[Ramsey Smith]: which is a different way
594
00:20:39,464 –> 00:20:41,464
[Tamiko Toland]: retail because you know when you have an individual
595
00:20:41,540 –> 00:20:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: white
596
00:20:41,864 –> 00:20:45,384
[Tamiko Toland]: client and you know what their needs are then you make selections that are really
597
00:20:45,284 –> 00:20:46,284
[Tamiko Toland]: much more
598
00:20:47,304 –> 00:20:53,704
[Tamiko Toland]: optimized for you know what their goals are right and so you can use these you
599
00:20:53,324 –> 00:20:54,324
[Tamiko Toland]: know
600
00:20:53,780 –> 00:20:54,780
[Paul Tyler]: i
601
00:20:54,044 –> 00:20:55,044
[Tamiko Toland]: products that are as
602
00:20:55,198 –> 00:20:56,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i know
603
00:20:55,304 –> 00:20:59,224
[Tamiko Toland]: we all know like so much of the annuity industry has become highly specialized
604
00:20:59,324 –> 00:21:00,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know you have
605
00:21:00,258 –> 00:21:01,618
[Ramsey Smith]: no that is
606
00:21:00,424 –> 00:21:03,144
[Tamiko Toland]: you know this benefit that’s torque one way
607
00:21:02,878 –> 00:21:03,878
[Ramsey Smith]: one way
608
00:21:03,304 –> 00:21:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and other benefit that’s toed in
609
00:21:04,838 –> 00:21:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: another way
610
00:21:05,144 –> 00:21:08,264
[Tamiko Toland]: another way and they are different use cases right and
611
00:21:08,580 –> 00:21:09,580
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
612
00:21:08,904 –> 00:21:13,384
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s to the benefit of the end client of making it more focused right and that
613
00:21:12,518 –> 00:21:13,518
[Ramsey Smith]: i
614
00:21:13,140 –> 00:21:14,140
[Paul Tyler]: that what
615
00:21:13,164 –> 00:21:14,164
[Tamiko Toland]: doesn’t apply
616
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:14,198
[Ramsey Smith]: think that a lot
617
00:21:15,064 –> 00:21:19,144
[Tamiko Toland]: right so much when you think about pda you’re not necessarily having a single
618
00:21:19,004 –> 00:21:20,004
[Tamiko Toland]: minded goal like
619
00:21:19,564 –> 00:21:20,564
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re
620
00:21:19,798 –> 00:21:20,798
[Ramsey Smith]: talk
621
00:21:19,860 –> 00:21:20,860
[Paul Tyler]: i my
622
00:21:20,264 –> 00:21:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: not trying to maximize income for every single person you have to balance out
623
00:21:24,198 –> 00:21:25,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i
624
00:21:24,664 –> 00:21:26,824
[Tamiko Toland]: those interests because some people are going to end
625
00:21:26,678 –> 00:21:27,678
[Ramsey Smith]: and i
626
00:21:26,984 –> 00:21:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: up at retirement not selecting that that benefit despite the fact that they’ve
627
00:21:31,544 –> 00:21:35,224
[Tamiko Toland]: paid into it whether it’s a decision made out of ignorance or they got diagnosed
628
00:21:35,224 –> 00:21:38,504
[Tamiko Toland]: with the terrible cancer right before they retired you know and they have
629
00:21:39,224 –> 00:21:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: different goals um for their their post working years
630
00:21:43,458 –> 00:21:44,498
[Ramsey Smith]: about art
631
00:21:43,604 –> 00:21:44,604
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there are
632
00:21:46,904 –> 00:21:48,824
[Tamiko Toland]: it is just a different problem to solve
633
00:21:49,078 –> 00:21:50,078
[Ramsey Smith]: g
634
00:21:49,284 –> 00:21:50,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right then
635
00:21:49,980 –> 00:21:50,980
[Paul Tyler]: wow
636
00:21:50,424 –> 00:21:53,304
[Tamiko Toland]: looking at it as you know client a
637
00:21:52,398 –> 00:21:53,398
[Ramsey Smith]: it was funny
638
00:21:53,740 –> 00:21:54,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so i
639
00:21:53,884 –> 00:21:54,884
[Tamiko Toland]: and
640
00:21:54,438 –> 00:21:55,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what
641
00:21:54,504 –> 00:21:55,864
[Tamiko Toland]: fitting solutions to that
642
00:21:55,220 –> 00:21:56,220
[Paul Tyler]: okay
643
00:21:55,558 –> 00:21:56,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what
644
00:21:56,000 –> 00:22:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: so here here’s okay you are the in command of you’re running the hr benefits for
645
00:22:03,700 –> 00:22:04,700
[Paul Tyler]: a target i
646
00:22:04,438 –> 00:22:05,438
[Ramsey Smith]: b
647
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:09,680
[Paul Tyler]: just took it take a job as uh you know somebody working in one of the stores i’m
648
00:22:09,760 –> 00:22:11,440
[Paul Tyler]: a assistant manager of a store
649
00:22:12,960 –> 00:22:16,640
[Paul Tyler]: how does how should the onboarding experience be when i fill at the application
650
00:22:18,000 –> 00:22:20,240
[Paul Tyler]: come to the point of okay set up your paycheck
651
00:22:21,520 –> 00:22:24,720
[Paul Tyler]: how much pal do you want to put into your four o one k o here’s the match
652
00:22:26,000 –> 00:22:30,000
[Paul Tyler]: how would you change that that setup for me to start putting money in there do i
653
00:22:30,080 –> 00:22:35,280
[Paul Tyler]: have a choice is there a default you know if you don’t say this paul you will get
654
00:22:35,920 –> 00:22:41,520
[Paul Tyler]: x percent of your savings in the four k and x percent is going to default into
655
00:22:41,540 –> 00:22:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: this income
656
00:22:43,060 –> 00:22:44,060
[Paul Tyler]: benefit
657
00:22:44,204 –> 00:22:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: well
658
00:22:44,678 –> 00:22:45,678
[Ramsey Smith]: that
659
00:22:44,904 –> 00:22:51,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the idea behind defaulting is that you don’t have to convince paul to sign
660
00:22:50,844 –> 00:22:51,844
[Tamiko Toland]: up
661
00:22:52,204 –> 00:22:53,204
[Tamiko Toland]: that you
662
00:22:54,024 –> 00:22:59,384
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t need to get educated about the benefits of of contributing to four o one k
663
00:22:59,624 –> 00:23:03,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the money goes in there you get your match and then you’re put into something
664
00:23:03,704 –> 00:23:07,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s suitable for you right and so conceptually yes that those are all
665
00:23:09,624 –> 00:23:10,984
[Tamiko Toland]: components of why
666
00:23:10,580 –> 00:23:11,580
[Paul Tyler]: why
667
00:23:11,064 –> 00:23:15,064
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re thinking so strongly about qa and not simply having sort of the
668
00:23:15,064 –> 00:23:17,304
[Tamiko Toland]: availability of options
669
00:23:18,664 –> 00:23:23,304
[Tamiko Toland]: before or at retirement that’s part of what the industry calls the retirement
670
00:23:23,464 –> 00:23:27,784
[Tamiko Toland]: tier right which is a range of different options to suit two different needs
671
00:23:27,724 –> 00:23:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: right
672
00:23:28,158 –> 00:23:29,158
[Ramsey Smith]: you could
673
00:23:28,504 –> 00:23:34,104
[Tamiko Toland]: but a lot of that is elective and not defaulted um you know it was interesting i
674
00:23:33,724 –> 00:23:34,724
[Tamiko Toland]: was
675
00:23:34,380 –> 00:23:35,380
[Paul Tyler]: out uh
676
00:23:34,424 –> 00:23:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: at the deci a innovation forum and
677
00:23:37,860 –> 00:23:38,860
[Paul Tyler]: oh
678
00:23:38,664 –> 00:23:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: somebody was presenting information about
679
00:23:42,264 –> 00:23:47,304
[Tamiko Toland]: engagement with plans and that defaulting is great for getting people into the
680
00:23:47,464 –> 00:23:50,664
[Tamiko Toland]: plan but people don’t engage with their plans as much when
681
00:23:50,340 –> 00:23:51,340
[Paul Tyler]: maybe
682
00:23:50,824 –> 00:23:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re simply defaulted right and so there’s kind of a tension between these
683
00:23:56,744 –> 00:23:57,864
[Tamiko Toland]: facts because you want
684
00:23:58,104 –> 00:24:00,744
[Tamiko Toland]: people to understand what they’re in and to perhaps
685
00:23:58,158 –> 00:23:59,158
[Ramsey Smith]: one one three
686
00:24:00,558 –> 00:24:01,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i watch
687
00:24:00,824 –> 00:24:04,744
[Tamiko Toland]: decide to increase their allocation right and so this is actually kind of a whole
688
00:24:04,824 –> 00:24:09,464
[Tamiko Toland]: other conversation around participant engagement that would also be beneficial
689
00:24:09,544 –> 00:24:11,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and also enhances because you know
690
00:24:11,460 –> 00:24:12,460
[Paul Tyler]: we
691
00:24:11,784 –> 00:24:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly people aren’t used to they use the idea
692
00:24:13,940 –> 00:24:14,940
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
693
00:24:14,504 –> 00:24:16,584
[Tamiko Toland]: of receiving income from their employer
694
00:24:17,484 –> 00:24:18,484
[Tamiko Toland]: through a pension
695
00:24:18,980 –> 00:24:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: but they’re not
696
00:24:19,224 –> 00:24:22,744
[Tamiko Toland]: but they’re not used to this as part of the four o one k because it’s it’s not a
697
00:24:22,824 –> 00:24:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: standard part of the landscape frankly you know relatively few plans even offer
698
00:24:27,624 –> 00:24:28,664
[Tamiko Toland]: it on on the
699
00:24:28,638 –> 00:24:29,638
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know
700
00:24:28,744 –> 00:24:30,584
[Tamiko Toland]: outbound you when you retire
701
00:24:31,164 –> 00:24:32,164
[Tamiko Toland]: but
702
00:24:31,680 –> 00:24:34,480
[Paul Tyler]: but you know i i wanna ask there’s
703
00:24:31,838 –> 00:24:32,838
[Ramsey Smith]: but you know i
704
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for
705
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for
706
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these
707
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these
708
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest
709
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest
710
00:24:46,104 –> 00:24:47,224
[Tamiko Toland]: um it you
711
00:24:46,820 –> 00:24:47,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
712
00:24:46,884 –> 00:24:47,884
[Tamiko Toland]: know s
713
00:24:47,798 –> 00:24:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: some sometimes
714
00:24:47,864 –> 00:24:50,104
[Tamiko Toland]: some some designs they may roll
715
00:24:49,838 –> 00:24:50,838
[Ramsey Smith]: wow
716
00:24:50,184 –> 00:24:52,424
[Tamiko Toland]: out but a lot of them you’re keeping
717
00:24:53,844 –> 00:24:54,844
[Tamiko Toland]: if not all the
718
00:24:54,358 –> 00:24:55,358
[Ramsey Smith]: all that
719
00:24:54,744 –> 00:24:57,704
[Tamiko Toland]: acids are bulk of them inside the plan so
720
00:24:57,940 –> 00:24:58,940
[Paul Tyler]: right
721
00:24:58,278 –> 00:24:59,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so
722
00:24:58,640 –> 00:25:01,360
[Paul Tyler]: amy sorry we just one follow up on that
723
00:25:03,760 –> 00:25:07,840
[Paul Tyler]: my experience has been it is so hard to change a form from an insurance company
724
00:25:08,080 –> 00:25:09,440
[Paul Tyler]: or a fourk provider
725
00:25:11,280 –> 00:25:15,200
[Paul Tyler]: do you have models sort of best language for introducing an income conversation
726
00:25:15,760 –> 00:25:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: because you know four hundred one thousand okay everybody kinda understands four
727
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:23,600
[Paul Tyler]: on k well how old is paul tyler you know if i’m twenty one
728
00:25:24,960 –> 00:25:29,760
[Paul Tyler]: gee maybe i’m defaulting here but i should sort of hm maybe i take it down maybe
729
00:25:29,620 –> 00:25:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: i’m
730
00:25:31,280 –> 00:25:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: actually in my fifty seconds maybe i should like allocate that initially more i
731
00:25:36,320 –> 00:25:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: mean do you have models that say this is the language it should be there for so
732
00:25:41,120 –> 00:25:44,800
[Paul Tyler]: paul makes the best optimal decision when i set it up
733
00:25:46,564 –> 00:25:47,564
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah it’s a good question
734
00:25:47,324 –> 00:25:48,324
[Tamiko Toland]: and
735
00:25:47,398 –> 00:25:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: like you
736
00:25:47,620 –> 00:25:48,620
[Paul Tyler]: no
737
00:25:48,024 –> 00:25:52,664
[Tamiko Toland]: there aren’t models for it i mean the only model is you know i would say the
738
00:25:52,744 –> 00:25:55,624
[Tamiko Toland]: largest plan out there um if you look
739
00:25:55,300 –> 00:25:56,300
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
740
00:25:55,704 –> 00:25:59,864
[Tamiko Toland]: at rath on’s participant communications they do an excellent job
741
00:25:59,558 –> 00:26:00,558
[Ramsey Smith]: job
742
00:26:00,124 –> 00:26:01,124
[Tamiko Toland]: of
743
00:26:01,158 –> 00:26:02,158
[Ramsey Smith]: showing
744
00:26:01,224 –> 00:26:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: showing different personas of different folks who would want to
745
00:26:03,958 –> 00:26:04,958
[Ramsey Smith]: one
746
00:26:04,424 –> 00:26:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: stay in the plan or in in that uh guaranteed income option or
747
00:26:08,398 –> 00:26:09,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what else
748
00:26:08,684 –> 00:26:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: not right
749
00:26:10,524 –> 00:26:11,524
[Tamiko Toland]: but you know
750
00:26:11,384 –> 00:26:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i think part of the understanding of this is that there are also
751
00:26:11,458 –> 00:26:13,058
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i think more fun
752
00:26:14,100 –> 00:26:15,100
[Paul Tyler]: are
753
00:26:14,664 –> 00:26:18,024
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how how they work and at
754
00:26:14,738 –> 00:26:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: are watching house
755
00:26:17,798 –> 00:26:18,798
[Ramsey Smith]: that
756
00:26:17,804 –> 00:26:18,804
[Tamiko Toland]: what
757
00:26:18,300 –> 00:26:19,300
[Paul Tyler]: what point
758
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really
759
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really
760
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you
761
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you
762
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age
763
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age
764
00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:29,780
[Paul Tyler]: seventies
765
00:26:30,164 –> 00:26:31,164
[Tamiko Toland]: you have
766
00:26:30,620 –> 00:26:31,620
[Paul Tyler]: i like
767
00:26:30,824 –> 00:26:32,344
[Tamiko Toland]: a glide path into income
768
00:26:33,040 –> 00:26:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: it’s just like you have a good life
769
00:26:33,224 –> 00:26:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: just like you would have a a glide path with a regular target day fund and so
770
00:26:37,084 –> 00:26:38,084
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s
771
00:26:37,300 –> 00:26:38,300
[Paul Tyler]: how
772
00:26:37,784 –> 00:26:41,064
[Tamiko Toland]: how a lot of them actually work um so it’s
773
00:26:42,084 –> 00:26:43,084
[Tamiko Toland]: you know when you think about
774
00:26:43,118 –> 00:26:44,118
[Ramsey Smith]: about the
775
00:26:43,224 –> 00:26:46,744
[Tamiko Toland]: the the range of different participants and their ages it
776
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Paul Tyler]: you
777
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty
778
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty
779
00:26:46,898 –> 00:26:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: it maybe holiday
780
00:26:50,504 –> 00:26:51,864
[Tamiko Toland]: because you’re not going to be
781
00:26:52,598 –> 00:26:53,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
782
00:26:52,744 –> 00:26:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: investing in it yet you know you’re not going to be accumulating that future
783
00:26:55,764 –> 00:26:56,764
[Tamiko Toland]: income
784
00:26:57,244 –> 00:26:58,244
[Tamiko Toland]: yet
785
00:26:57,478 –> 00:26:58,478
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
786
00:26:58,264 –> 00:26:59,544
[Tamiko Toland]: knowing that that is something that
787
00:26:59,220 –> 00:27:00,220
[Paul Tyler]: y
788
00:26:59,704 –> 00:27:00,824
[Tamiko Toland]: will happen in the future
789
00:27:00,478 –> 00:27:01,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the future
790
00:27:01,484 –> 00:27:02,484
[Tamiko Toland]: can be quite
791
00:27:01,860 –> 00:27:02,860
[Paul Tyler]: we
792
00:27:02,424 –> 00:27:06,264
[Tamiko Toland]: reassuring to employees and it would be potentially an inducement to
793
00:27:05,860 –> 00:27:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: zero
794
00:27:06,264 –> 00:27:10,184
[Tamiko Toland]: stay at a company if you were considering you know going somewhere else so i
795
00:27:09,980 –> 00:27:10,980
[Paul Tyler]: ninety nine
796
00:27:10,238 –> 00:27:11,238
[Ramsey Smith]: ninety nine by
797
00:27:10,324 –> 00:27:11,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i could see
798
00:27:11,740 –> 00:27:12,740
[Paul Tyler]: i get
799
00:27:12,184 –> 00:27:14,984
[Tamiko Toland]: again this goes more to the participants like
800
00:27:14,580 –> 00:27:15,580
[Paul Tyler]: like
801
00:27:15,144 –> 00:27:21,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the idea of income you know uh mindset as opposed to this is beneficial for the
802
00:27:20,964 –> 00:27:21,964
[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors i
803
00:27:21,460 –> 00:27:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: maybe
804
00:27:22,024 –> 00:27:23,864
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s beneficial for everybody frankly
805
00:27:24,518 –> 00:27:25,518
[Ramsey Smith]: so
806
00:27:25,120 –> 00:27:26,560
[Paul Tyler]: no i wanted to say that before
807
00:27:25,138 –> 00:27:29,298
[Ramsey Smith]: i wanted to pick up on what you were saying about staying in plan
808
00:27:30,338 –> 00:27:34,338
[Ramsey Smith]: and this is something that’s that’s been a particular interest to me and
809
00:27:35,538 –> 00:27:37,778
[Ramsey Smith]: i want to hear what you think about what the potential
810
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with
811
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with
812
00:27:39,060 –> 00:27:40,060
[Paul Tyler]: she
813
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know
814
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know
815
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be
816
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be
817
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might
818
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might
819
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with
820
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with
821
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just
822
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just
823
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like
824
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like
825
00:28:14,738 –> 00:28:18,178
[Ramsey Smith]: why where are we now in a world where maybe they want to keep people in plan for
826
00:28:17,958 –> 00:28:18,958
[Ramsey Smith]: longer
827
00:28:19,404 –> 00:28:20,404
[Tamiko Toland]: well
828
00:28:20,000 –> 00:28:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: what do you breakfast
829
00:28:20,024 –> 00:28:24,664
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they are recognizing the advantages of scale right you keep more folks in
830
00:28:24,744 –> 00:28:28,904
[Tamiko Toland]: your you plan you have larger assets and then you were able to drive down costs i
831
00:28:28,984 –> 00:28:34,424
[Tamiko Toland]: mean that that’s a that’s a pretty basic dynamic from a pricing perspective
832
00:28:36,264 –> 00:28:39,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and like i say there’s blended models and what have you in terms of like what
833
00:28:39,784 –> 00:28:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: happens with the actual income component um
834
00:28:43,704 –> 00:28:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: and i i think there’s there’s always
835
00:28:46,000 –> 00:28:47,840
[Paul Tyler]: we we settled from
836
00:28:46,264 –> 00:28:49,704
[Tamiko Toland]: there are much more subtle conversations and probably differences among different
837
00:28:49,864 –> 00:28:52,504
[Tamiko Toland]: types of sponsors um you
838
00:28:52,124 –> 00:28:53,124
[Tamiko Toland]: know
839
00:28:52,180 –> 00:28:53,180
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
840
00:28:52,278 –> 00:28:53,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so
841
00:28:52,904 –> 00:28:56,984
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the traditional mindset has really been like you know oh this
842
00:28:57,380 –> 00:28:58,380
[Paul Tyler]: it
843
00:28:57,398 –> 00:28:58,398
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
844
00:28:57,624 –> 00:28:58,744
[Tamiko Toland]: participant isn’t
845
00:28:59,300 –> 00:29:00,300
[Paul Tyler]: even a work
846
00:28:59,304 –> 00:29:02,344
[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t a worker here anymore so we just we want
847
00:29:01,940 –> 00:29:02,940
[Paul Tyler]: what
848
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship
849
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship
850
00:29:06,844 –> 00:29:07,844
[Tamiko Toland]: um but
851
00:29:07,220 –> 00:29:08,220
[Paul Tyler]: like
852
00:29:07,718 –> 00:29:08,718
[Ramsey Smith]: but you
853
00:29:07,784 –> 00:29:11,784
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there there are advantages too frankly for the worker
854
00:29:12,664 –> 00:29:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that you know this i because it is a fiduciary relationship
855
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:14,720
[Paul Tyler]: right but you could be
856
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get
857
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get
858
00:29:17,378 –> 00:29:18,738
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah maybe you
859
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so
860
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so
861
00:29:22,898 –> 00:29:26,178
[Ramsey Smith]: so sorry i wanna just just follow up on this paul so
862
00:29:26,838 –> 00:29:27,838
[Ramsey Smith]: so
863
00:29:27,420 –> 00:29:28,420
[Paul Tyler]: what weekend
864
00:29:27,458 –> 00:29:32,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m with you i’m with you and i and i i agree a it’s it’s it’s part and parcel
865
00:29:32,580 –> 00:29:33,580
[Paul Tyler]: what
866
00:29:32,978 –> 00:29:37,218
[Ramsey Smith]: why this is an attractive opportunity for plan sponsors and frankly for asset
867
00:29:37,298 –> 00:29:38,578
[Ramsey Smith]: managers and carriers
868
00:29:39,778 –> 00:29:43,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the one question though was so at that at that point of transition so you are a
869
00:29:43,938 –> 00:29:49,698
[Ramsey Smith]: fiduciary and you now want somebody to stay in plan you know after age sixty five
870
00:29:50,418 –> 00:29:54,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but now this person in theory can go a lot of other places right they can roll
871
00:29:54,498 –> 00:29:56,178
[Ramsey Smith]: over and go to you know any number
872
00:29:57,298 –> 00:30:03,938
[Ramsey Smith]: of sort of established you know asset manager sort of providers or broker broker
873
00:30:04,018 –> 00:30:09,138
[Ramsey Smith]: dealer providers who have these entire suites of services and so in some sense
874
00:30:09,378 –> 00:30:12,898
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re telling the person well you should stay here with what we offer the
875
00:30:13,058 –> 00:30:16,898
[Ramsey Smith]: service offering we have which may or may not be as expansive as all the other
876
00:30:17,058 –> 00:30:22,018
[Ramsey Smith]: things that they might do like is that is there a fiduciary responsibility there
877
00:30:22,258 –> 00:30:27,538
[Ramsey Smith]: that that is that is also quite different literally at the point of at the point
878
00:30:27,698 –> 00:30:31,698
[Ramsey Smith]: of transition and not just not just managing but but basically saying please stay
879
00:30:31,638 –> 00:30:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: as opposed to going
880
00:30:33,644 –> 00:30:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah and i
881
00:30:34,100 –> 00:30:35,100
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
882
00:30:34,344 –> 00:30:36,344
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know that the rhetoric is you should stay
883
00:30:37,118 –> 00:30:38,118
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah right
884
00:30:37,260 –> 00:30:38,260
[Paul Tyler]: i think they’re
885
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve
886
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve
887
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with
888
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with
889
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the
890
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the
891
00:30:46,504 –> 00:30:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: with some some degree of guidance um or if that’s independent of that um and
892
00:30:51,684 –> 00:30:52,684
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s just information
893
00:30:53,544 –> 00:30:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s conveyed i mean there are a lot of
894
00:30:55,398 –> 00:30:56,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what
895
00:30:55,864 –> 00:30:57,544
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how to do that but i
896
00:30:57,420 –> 00:30:58,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think that
897
00:30:57,704 –> 00:31:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the premise that it’s you should say because we want to keep your assets
898
00:31:02,104 –> 00:31:03,304
[Tamiko Toland]: in plan it is
899
00:31:03,544 –> 00:31:08,824
[Tamiko Toland]: probably not the way that i would think about it and also you know the rollover
900
00:31:03,600 –> 00:31:06,720
[Paul Tyler]: probably no week i about it i it also
901
00:31:09,064 –> 00:31:10,744
[Tamiko Toland]: situation right now is in flux
902
00:31:10,838 –> 00:31:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
903
00:31:11,224 –> 00:31:15,304
[Tamiko Toland]: and so the relative ease with which that can happen is like that
904
00:31:15,378 –> 00:31:17,618
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s i think that’s very important
905
00:31:16,000 –> 00:31:17,760
[Paul Tyler]: i think that that works
906
00:31:16,024 –> 00:31:17,944
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that’s a at question so
907
00:31:18,980 –> 00:31:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: very
908
00:31:19,464 –> 00:31:24,424
[Tamiko Toland]: there is more reason for the sponsors to be offering like good
909
00:31:25,704 –> 00:31:27,384
[Tamiko Toland]: options within their plans
910
00:31:28,164 –> 00:31:29,164
[Tamiko Toland]: right um
911
00:31:29,944 –> 00:31:32,584
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ll we’ll just see we’ll see how things evolve it’s just going to say you
912
00:31:32,664 –> 00:31:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: know adoptions not quick that and that’s reality
913
00:31:35,440 –> 00:31:36,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m trying to think if i
914
00:31:35,698 –> 00:31:40,338
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s just hard to figure out whether whether the new rollover rules create more
915
00:31:40,498 –> 00:31:45,458
[Ramsey Smith]: problems for the people that are trying to be rolled over into right or if they
916
00:31:45,060 –> 00:31:46,060
[Paul Tyler]: so
917
00:31:45,618 –> 00:31:51,298
[Ramsey Smith]: also create similar challenges for for for somebody that says don’t roll out
918
00:31:51,718 –> 00:31:52,718
[Ramsey Smith]: right that’s
919
00:31:53,858 –> 00:31:58,498
[Ramsey Smith]: these are open issues but uh it’s the complexity the complexity is striking to me
920
00:31:58,800 –> 00:32:03,760
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i think for our listeners who are independent agents or advisors
921
00:32:05,200 –> 00:32:10,240
[Paul Tyler]: you know the plus is the employers have started that income conversation
922
00:32:11,078 –> 00:32:12,078
[Ramsey Smith]: so
923
00:32:11,120 –> 00:32:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: temco in a way that they at least start to understand they all understood asset
924
00:32:15,520 –> 00:32:19,840
[Paul Tyler]: allocation now they’re starting to understand income rams you brought up a really
925
00:32:20,000 –> 00:32:24,080
[Paul Tyler]: good question which is wow this would be really difficult to roll over you know
926
00:32:24,160 –> 00:32:25,600
[Paul Tyler]: we already have some some
927
00:32:26,640 –> 00:32:31,520
[Paul Tyler]: you know rules from the dol you know coming in to making it very difficult to do
928
00:32:31,580 –> 00:32:32,580
[Paul Tyler]: this properly but
929
00:32:34,560 –> 00:32:38,080
[Paul Tyler]: now you i’ve got a little bit of tension you know with some of the plan providers
930
00:32:38,800 –> 00:32:39,840
[Paul Tyler]: and where that money’s going
931
00:32:43,804 –> 00:32:44,804
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that would
932
00:32:44,420 –> 00:32:45,420
[Paul Tyler]: we
933
00:32:44,824 –> 00:32:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: be more true if we
934
00:32:45,700 –> 00:32:46,700
[Paul Tyler]: had
935
00:32:46,104 –> 00:32:49,784
[Tamiko Toland]: had current wider adoption of lifetime income within
936
00:32:49,540 –> 00:32:50,540
[Paul Tyler]: like
937
00:32:49,864 –> 00:32:52,184
[Tamiko Toland]: plants and it’s just that it’s it’s not significant
938
00:32:53,224 –> 00:32:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: right we we need to see more of it and
939
00:32:56,364 –> 00:32:57,364
[Tamiko Toland]: it
940
00:32:58,284 –> 00:32:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: the
941
00:32:58,660 –> 00:32:59,660
[Paul Tyler]: like
942
00:32:58,904 –> 00:33:01,624
[Tamiko Toland]: cycle of getting things adopted is very
943
00:33:01,380 –> 00:33:02,380
[Paul Tyler]: very different
944
00:33:01,784 –> 00:33:06,824
[Tamiko Toland]: different from simply selling somebody an annuity in the retail space right so i
945
00:33:07,544 –> 00:33:09,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i don’t see that as being a
946
00:33:10,424 –> 00:33:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: a present issue and we don’t know actually what will ultimately happen as far as
947
00:33:16,184 –> 00:33:21,784
[Tamiko Toland]: rollovers out of plans so i you know we can we can speculate we want about that
948
00:33:21,220 –> 00:33:22,220
[Paul Tyler]: about that
949
00:33:23,040 –> 00:33:24,480
[Paul Tyler]: i never said what
950
00:33:23,064 –> 00:33:26,904
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that a lot of this conversation frankly and i’ve i’ve said this
951
00:33:27,064 –> 00:33:32,664
[Tamiko Toland]: whole time and with uh the lifetime income illustrations that are going to be
952
00:33:32,744 –> 00:33:35,064
[Tamiko Toland]: peering on people’s four o one k statements
953
00:33:35,484 –> 00:33:36,484
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s
954
00:33:35,580 –> 00:33:36,580
[Paul Tyler]: i know
955
00:33:35,878 –> 00:33:36,878
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s all
956
00:33:36,184 –> 00:33:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: all of an opportunity for retail right
957
00:33:38,998 –> 00:33:39,998
[Ramsey Smith]: dr
958
00:33:39,624 –> 00:33:41,224
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know when you see
959
00:33:40,900 –> 00:33:41,900
[Paul Tyler]: see oh
960
00:33:40,924 –> 00:33:41,924
[Tamiko Toland]: oh
961
00:33:41,544 –> 00:33:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i my four o one k could turn into this
962
00:33:41,618 –> 00:33:43,298
[Ramsey Smith]: oh i like he’s good
963
00:33:44,598 –> 00:33:45,598
[Ramsey Smith]: your
964
00:33:44,724 –> 00:33:45,724
[Tamiko Toland]: guaranteed income
965
00:33:46,844 –> 00:33:47,844
[Tamiko Toland]: yet
966
00:33:47,060 –> 00:33:48,060
[Paul Tyler]: they
967
00:33:47,464 –> 00:33:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s literally no way to possibly do that within my existing plan
968
00:33:50,980 –> 00:33:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: break
969
00:33:51,324 –> 00:33:52,324
[Tamiko Toland]: right so when
970
00:33:53,544 –> 00:33:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: when you you you run into this logistical challenge
971
00:33:56,664 –> 00:34:00,584
[Tamiko Toland]: but you start thinking about what to do with your retirement savings in a
972
00:33:56,720 –> 00:33:58,080
[Paul Tyler]: like think about
973
00:34:00,664 –> 00:34:03,064
[Tamiko Toland]: different way you know like i say i think that that is a
974
00:34:02,660 –> 00:34:03,660
[Paul Tyler]: g
975
00:34:03,144 –> 00:34:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: great opportunity in the face of some potential
976
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:07,500
[Paul Tyler]: right
977
00:34:06,984 –> 00:34:12,584
[Tamiko Toland]: compliance challenges right so there’s a lot of forces at play right now for sure
978
00:34:13,440 –> 00:34:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: now there are a
979
00:34:14,118 –> 00:34:15,118
[Ramsey Smith]: are
980
00:34:14,640 –> 00:34:18,720
[Paul Tyler]: large number of big plans like you described like raytheon with
981
00:34:20,140 –> 00:34:21,140
[Paul Tyler]: good hr
982
00:34:20,598 –> 00:34:21,598
[Ramsey Smith]: t
983
00:34:20,900 –> 00:34:21,900
[Paul Tyler]: benefits
984
00:34:22,880 –> 00:34:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: professionals tremendous support from from advisors for the plan but they are
985
00:34:28,480 –> 00:34:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: like a lot more small plants with fewer participants
986
00:34:32,684 –> 00:34:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: just
987
00:34:34,000 –> 00:34:39,120
[Paul Tyler]: tim k do you think the equation or how sponsors are going to think about it will
988
00:34:39,280 –> 00:34:42,560
[Paul Tyler]: change when you start to go down and maybe you only have ten employees maybe have
989
00:34:42,720 –> 00:34:47,680
[Paul Tyler]: fifteen employees um do you think the adoption challenge will be any different or
990
00:34:47,920 –> 00:34:51,760
[Paul Tyler]: will it’ll be just effectively same set of considerations
991
00:34:53,484 –> 00:34:54,484
[Tamiko Toland]: well i think you know
992
00:34:56,344 –> 00:35:00,664
[Tamiko Toland]: really what’s going to happen is we’re going to see an increase in adoption right
993
00:35:00,844 –> 00:35:01,844
[Tamiko Toland]: it it
994
00:35:01,260 –> 00:35:02,260
[Paul Tyler]: eating
995
00:35:01,544 –> 00:35:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is going to happen for sure is it is happening right now but
996
00:35:04,980 –> 00:35:05,980
[Paul Tyler]: what
997
00:35:05,078 –> 00:35:06,078
[Ramsey Smith]: what
998
00:35:05,204 –> 00:35:06,204
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s um
999
00:35:06,100 –> 00:35:07,100
[Paul Tyler]: that
1000
00:35:06,504 –> 00:35:12,344
[Tamiko Toland]: as that picks up i think it will make um make it more of a competitive issue for
1001
00:35:12,044 –> 00:35:13,044
[Tamiko Toland]: than
1002
00:35:12,260 –> 00:35:13,260
[Paul Tyler]: that
1003
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all
1004
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all
1005
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be
1006
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be
1007
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly
1008
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly
1009
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more
1010
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more
1011
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons
1012
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons
1013
00:35:35,064 –> 00:35:38,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ve seen availability for smaller plans but then adoptions low because
1014
00:35:38,364 –> 00:35:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re not necessarily they
1015
00:35:39,398 –> 00:35:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1016
00:35:39,864 –> 00:35:44,664
[Tamiko Toland]: may include it in the plan but it’s not the qa and so like that’s
1017
00:35:44,824 –> 00:35:47,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s like the big shift i think for everyone and and we
1018
00:35:44,898 –> 00:35:46,418
[Ramsey Smith]: like that that’s like the
1019
00:35:44,940 –> 00:35:45,940
[Paul Tyler]: not se
1020
00:35:47,944 –> 00:35:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: whether that’s an appropriate choice for a small sponsor that’s
1021
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:49,280
[Paul Tyler]: it was a hurry
1022
00:35:50,980 –> 00:35:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
1023
00:35:51,144 –> 00:35:52,264
[Tamiko Toland]: a different question i i’m
1024
00:35:52,620 –> 00:35:53,620
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m not think it is
1025
00:35:52,664 –> 00:35:54,184
[Tamiko Toland]: not saying it is or isn’t um
1026
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees
1027
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees
1028
00:35:54,960 –> 00:35:57,360
[Paul Tyler]: oh but i think i think about
1029
00:36:00,024 –> 00:36:01,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re gonna be thinking about their
1030
00:36:00,900 –> 00:36:01,900
[Paul Tyler]: saturday
1031
00:36:01,224 –> 00:36:03,384
[Tamiko Toland]: needs really differently and much more
1032
00:36:05,144 –> 00:36:10,344
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals and you know then let’s think about peps and and what have
1033
00:36:10,044 –> 00:36:11,044
[Tamiko Toland]: you
1034
00:36:10,740 –> 00:36:11,740
[Paul Tyler]: like
1035
00:36:10,804 –> 00:36:11,804
[Tamiko Toland]: but um
1036
00:36:12,404 –> 00:36:13,404
[Tamiko Toland]: you know it
1037
00:36:12,844 –> 00:36:13,844
[Tamiko Toland]: like
1038
00:36:13,060 –> 00:36:14,060
[Paul Tyler]: like
1039
00:36:13,138 –> 00:36:15,058
[Ramsey Smith]: you know it’s like a different type of story
1040
00:36:13,464 –> 00:36:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: i say it’s a different set of considerations in the space
1041
00:36:15,460 –> 00:36:16,460
[Paul Tyler]: see
1042
00:36:16,404 –> 00:36:17,404
[Tamiko Toland]: and that
1043
00:36:16,980 –> 00:36:17,980
[Paul Tyler]: that one
1044
00:36:17,138 –> 00:36:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: and c sp
1045
00:36:17,224 –> 00:36:22,184
[Tamiko Toland]: learning curve which is one of the reasons that you know we really uh wanted to
1046
00:36:21,844 –> 00:36:22,844
[Tamiko Toland]: see the
1047
00:36:22,220 –> 00:36:23,220
[Paul Tyler]: you like
1048
00:36:22,504 –> 00:36:24,024
[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income consortium come
1049
00:36:23,700 –> 00:36:24,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
1050
00:36:24,184 –> 00:36:28,344
[Tamiko Toland]: together because we can get the education out there you know it’s a large group
1051
00:36:28,584 –> 00:36:30,344
[Tamiko Toland]: of very very different solution
1052
00:36:30,744 –> 00:36:32,024
[Tamiko Toland]: providers that are
1053
00:36:31,040 –> 00:36:32,240
[Paul Tyler]: was saturd
1054
00:36:31,638 –> 00:36:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1055
00:36:32,264 –> 00:36:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: you know really deciding that it’s more important for them to work in concert
1056
00:36:38,678 –> 00:36:39,678
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1057
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education
1058
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education
1059
00:36:42,744 –> 00:36:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and to reduce some of the the compliance hurdles
1060
00:36:47,118 –> 00:36:48,118
[Ramsey Smith]: so how
1061
00:36:47,780 –> 00:36:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: how do you think about it
1062
00:36:47,858 –> 00:36:52,658
[Ramsey Smith]: do you think about you know the mandate of of this new organization versus there
1063
00:36:52,738 –> 00:36:56,018
[Ramsey Smith]: are some other educational organizations in the space right
1064
00:36:55,964 –> 00:36:56,964
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
1065
00:36:56,738 –> 00:37:00,338
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s the alliance for lifelong income there’s limma the all friends of the
1066
00:37:00,198 –> 00:37:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: show by the way
1067
00:37:01,644 –> 00:37:02,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
1068
00:37:03,298 –> 00:37:05,698
[Ramsey Smith]: uh curious how like you view
1069
00:37:06,738 –> 00:37:10,498
[Ramsey Smith]: the mandate of this consortium as being
1070
00:37:10,204 –> 00:37:11,204
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1071
00:37:10,658 –> 00:37:14,898
[Ramsey Smith]: different or what’s the sort of unique element that you guys are focusing on
1072
00:37:16,338 –> 00:37:19,938
[Ramsey Smith]: is it the complete focus on this one particular space is there anything else
1073
00:37:20,098 –> 00:37:21,138
[Ramsey Smith]: about it stylistically
1074
00:37:22,738 –> 00:37:25,378
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s part of your mo that you can share with us
1075
00:37:26,204 –> 00:37:27,204
[Tamiko Toland]: sure
1076
00:37:26,780 –> 00:37:27,780
[Paul Tyler]: sure i mean i think
1077
00:37:26,904 –> 00:37:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i you know i think you
1078
00:37:28,984 –> 00:37:31,544
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re also very friendly with the other
1079
00:37:29,040 –> 00:37:31,920
[Paul Tyler]: we’re also great friends the other one
1080
00:37:31,878 –> 00:37:32,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1081
00:37:31,884 –> 00:37:32,884
[Tamiko Toland]: organizations out there
1082
00:37:33,964 –> 00:37:34,964
[Tamiko Toland]: and
1083
00:37:34,598 –> 00:37:35,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and yeah
1084
00:37:34,604 –> 00:37:35,604
[Tamiko Toland]: yes
1085
00:37:35,140 –> 00:37:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: get married
1086
00:37:35,384 –> 00:37:37,944
[Tamiko Toland]: education is a component of what we’re doing
1087
00:37:39,064 –> 00:37:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: but we’re not an educational organization we’re we’re actually our
1088
00:37:42,460 –> 00:37:43,460
[Paul Tyler]: mm hm
1089
00:37:42,804 –> 00:37:43,804
[Tamiko Toland]: goal is commercial
1090
00:37:44,078 –> 00:37:45,078
[Ramsey Smith]: there we go
1091
00:37:44,504 –> 00:37:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and commercially we want to see
1092
00:37:48,104 –> 00:37:50,504
[Tamiko Toland]: broader adoption of these solutions and
1093
00:37:50,420 –> 00:37:51,420
[Paul Tyler]: so it
1094
00:37:50,664 –> 00:37:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: so it’s a commercial
1095
00:37:52,824 –> 00:37:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: look at the problem not simply throwing out
1096
00:37:54,678 –> 00:37:55,678
[Ramsey Smith]: got
1097
00:37:55,064 –> 00:37:58,184
[Tamiko Toland]: education but education saying okay well what are the challenges how
1098
00:37:58,140 –> 00:37:59,140
[Paul Tyler]: how c
1099
00:37:58,264 –> 00:37:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: can we help close those gaps
1100
00:37:59,844 –> 00:38:00,844
[Tamiko Toland]: and then
1101
00:38:00,320 –> 00:38:02,000
[Paul Tyler]: and then where are their an
1102
00:38:00,398 –> 00:38:01,398
[Ramsey Smith]: and we
1103
00:38:00,584 –> 00:38:05,224
[Tamiko Toland]: you know where are their actual like logistical adoption issues like say with the
1104
00:38:05,304 –> 00:38:08,744
[Tamiko Toland]: record keepers right ’cause the record keepers are the ones that
1105
00:38:08,340 –> 00:38:09,340
[Paul Tyler]: that
1106
00:38:08,978 –> 00:38:10,098
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah like you
1107
00:38:09,224 –> 00:38:11,064
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly are holding the keys on this
1108
00:38:11,380 –> 00:38:12,380
[Paul Tyler]: oh
1109
00:38:11,784 –> 00:38:13,304
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately right
1110
00:38:13,220 –> 00:38:14,220
[Paul Tyler]: and
1111
00:38:13,624 –> 00:38:14,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know they
1112
00:38:14,804 –> 00:38:15,804
[Tamiko Toland]: are they are
1113
00:38:14,880 –> 00:38:16,080
[Paul Tyler]: they they are not
1114
00:38:15,478 –> 00:38:16,478
[Ramsey Smith]: they are
1115
00:38:15,864 –> 00:38:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: not jumping into the pool
1116
00:38:18,924 –> 00:38:19,924
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1117
00:38:19,318 –> 00:38:20,318
[Ramsey Smith]: spray
1118
00:38:19,784 –> 00:38:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: and so you know
1119
00:38:20,660 –> 00:38:21,660
[Paul Tyler]: got
1120
00:38:20,724 –> 00:38:21,724
[Tamiko Toland]: that is
1121
00:38:23,224 –> 00:38:27,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s a concern that we’re all listening to and we just want to make sure that all
1122
00:38:27,384 –> 00:38:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: the dots are lining up
1123
00:38:29,544 –> 00:38:32,104
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this a reality and we want to hear from
1124
00:38:33,304 –> 00:38:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: from the folks that are are really in the front
1125
00:38:35,140 –> 00:38:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: why
1126
00:38:35,544 –> 00:38:36,824
[Tamiko Toland]: lines and
1127
00:38:36,740 –> 00:38:37,740
[Paul Tyler]: you
1128
00:38:36,984 –> 00:38:40,664
[Tamiko Toland]: hearing the objections dealing with those challenges to help
1129
00:38:40,260 –> 00:38:41,260
[Paul Tyler]: help
1130
00:38:40,904 –> 00:38:42,344
[Tamiko Toland]: solve those challenges so
1131
00:38:42,980 –> 00:38:43,980
[Paul Tyler]: where you
1132
00:38:43,064 –> 00:38:46,504
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re just in year one right of the consortium so we’re just
1133
00:38:46,744 –> 00:38:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: establishing really the basics and then that work will continue and one of the
1134
00:38:46,838 –> 00:38:47,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1135
00:38:50,564 –> 00:38:51,564
[Tamiko Toland]: issues too is
1136
00:38:51,078 –> 00:38:52,078
[Ramsey Smith]: two
1137
00:38:51,544 –> 00:38:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: like how do you compare these different solutions and how do you make a selection
1138
00:38:56,584 –> 00:39:00,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and that’s something that that we’re working on from an analytical perspective
1139
00:39:01,064 –> 00:39:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that saying well what kind of quantitative support is there the conclusion
1140
00:39:05,564 –> 00:39:06,564
[Tamiko Toland]: is
1141
00:39:05,804 –> 00:39:06,804
[Tamiko Toland]: never
1142
00:39:05,860 –> 00:39:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: never
1143
00:39:06,278 –> 00:39:07,278
[Ramsey Smith]: never did
1144
00:39:06,664 –> 00:39:07,784
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s one best
1145
00:39:08,684 –> 00:39:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: solution
1146
00:39:09,964 –> 00:39:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: right there
1147
00:39:10,738 –> 00:39:12,498
[Ramsey Smith]: like they need to work different
1148
00:39:10,984 –> 00:39:12,824
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions are to work differently in different
1149
00:39:12,660 –> 00:39:13,660
[Paul Tyler]: we
1150
00:39:12,804 –> 00:39:13,804
[Tamiko Toland]: ways and
1151
00:39:13,598 –> 00:39:14,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and was very
1152
00:39:13,784 –> 00:39:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: what’s very important is for people to have some quantitative basis to say well
1153
00:39:17,398 –> 00:39:18,398
[Ramsey Smith]: people
1154
00:39:17,884 –> 00:39:18,884
[Tamiko Toland]: this is better in this
1155
00:39:18,838 –> 00:39:19,838
[Ramsey Smith]: the car
1156
00:39:18,904 –> 00:39:20,664
[Tamiko Toland]: regard and then but this
1157
00:39:20,744 –> 00:39:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: one’s better in this regard what works best for for our
1158
00:39:20,798 –> 00:39:21,798
[Ramsey Smith]: is instead of
1159
00:39:24,100 –> 00:39:25,100
[Paul Tyler]: r
1160
00:39:24,924 –> 00:39:25,924
[Tamiko Toland]: you know
1161
00:39:25,380 –> 00:39:26,380
[Paul Tyler]: what
1162
00:39:25,704 –> 00:39:27,224
[Tamiko Toland]: worker population and
1163
00:39:27,300 –> 00:39:28,300
[Paul Tyler]: that
1164
00:39:27,544 –> 00:39:30,504
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the kind of decision making that we really want to support a can
1165
00:39:31,280 –> 00:39:35,760
[Paul Tyler]: okay so here here’s literally a million dollar question just set it up i was at
1166
00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:40,400
[Paul Tyler]: an insure tech conference here monday ramsay we actually had former guests there
1167
00:39:40,480 –> 00:39:43,440
[Paul Tyler]: at this event new york so jerry golden was there spent some time with
1168
00:39:43,318 –> 00:39:44,318
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1169
00:39:43,520 –> 00:39:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: jerry our friends remaining best a m s t v was broadcasting there you missed but
1170
00:39:50,240 –> 00:39:54,240
[Paul Tyler]: actually people came up and talked to us better me about our show so we’re uh you
1171
00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: crossing a lot of wires here
1172
00:39:55,478 –> 00:39:56,478
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1173
00:39:56,080 –> 00:40:02,320
[Paul Tyler]: but temco we took out some very prominent vcs for dinner night before and the
1174
00:40:02,400 –> 00:40:06,080
[Paul Tyler]: question i got was yeah i’m reading about this and hearing about this paul but
1175
00:40:06,240 –> 00:40:08,400
[Paul Tyler]: like when you know is this a
1176
00:40:09,260 –> 00:40:10,260
[Paul Tyler]: when is this
1177
00:40:09,638 –> 00:40:10,638
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1178
00:40:10,060 –> 00:40:11,060
[Paul Tyler]: going to be a meaningful market
1179
00:40:10,838 –> 00:40:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: work
1180
00:40:11,280 –> 00:40:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: is it three years five years ten years from now to invest i mean what’s
1181
00:40:15,558 –> 00:40:16,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1182
00:40:16,000 –> 00:40:17,360
[Paul Tyler]: your what’s your
1183
00:40:17,278 –> 00:40:18,278
[Ramsey Smith]: your respect
1184
00:40:17,440 –> 00:40:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: perspective like when will
1185
00:40:20,400 –> 00:40:24,640
[Paul Tyler]: this be a material a business that you know people are going to fund a lot of the
1186
00:40:24,720 –> 00:40:27,280
[Paul Tyler]: businesses that are making big bets in the space
1187
00:40:30,044 –> 00:40:31,044
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1188
00:40:31,944 –> 00:40:33,784
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s a it’s a slow play
1189
00:40:33,478 –> 00:40:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: one
1190
00:40:33,644 –> 00:40:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: still
1191
00:40:34,904 –> 00:40:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: honestly like it’s not like all of a sudden everybody’s gonna start throwing this
1192
00:40:35,218 –> 00:40:36,978
[Ramsey Smith]: ho not like all the
1193
00:40:38,824 –> 00:40:42,584
[Tamiko Toland]: on their plans and my feeling is a and i
1194
00:40:42,404 –> 00:40:43,404
[Tamiko Toland]: think this gets
1195
00:40:42,540 –> 00:40:43,540
[Paul Tyler]: i think it’s
1196
00:40:42,918 –> 00:40:43,918
[Ramsey Smith]: get
1197
00:40:43,224 –> 00:40:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: missed a little bit with like the
1198
00:40:44,918 –> 00:40:45,918
[Ramsey Smith]: like that
1199
00:40:45,464 –> 00:40:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsay’s press release survey right a lot
1200
00:40:47,780 –> 00:40:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: what
1201
00:40:48,264 –> 00:40:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: of the companies that are really engaged now have been engaged for a very long
1202
00:40:51,484 –> 00:40:52,484
[Tamiko Toland]: time
1203
00:40:53,304 –> 00:40:54,344
[Tamiko Toland]: right and
1204
00:40:54,498 –> 00:40:56,258
[Ramsey Smith]: and they feel that
1205
00:40:55,224 –> 00:40:57,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they feel like this is an important opportunity
1206
00:40:58,284 –> 00:40:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1207
00:40:58,998 –> 00:40:59,998
[Ramsey Smith]: um
1208
00:40:59,644 –> 00:41:00,644
[Tamiko Toland]: but
1209
00:40:59,700 –> 00:41:00,700
[Paul Tyler]: like
1210
00:40:59,878 –> 00:41:00,878
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1211
00:41:01,224 –> 00:41:02,584
[Tamiko Toland]: uh you know when
1212
00:41:02,278 –> 00:41:03,278
[Ramsey Smith]: it would
1213
00:41:02,664 –> 00:41:03,944
[Tamiko Toland]: you’ve been doing it for a
1214
00:41:03,860 –> 00:41:04,860
[Paul Tyler]: decade
1215
00:41:04,024 –> 00:41:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: decade or perhaps longer
1216
00:41:06,740 –> 00:41:07,740
[Paul Tyler]: and not quite she
1217
00:41:06,744 –> 00:41:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and not quite nailed it i mean there’s a lot of conviction around the space and
1218
00:41:12,024 –> 00:41:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: being present and planting the flag
1219
00:41:15,224 –> 00:41:16,344
[Tamiko Toland]: where you know i don’t
1220
00:41:16,038 –> 00:41:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t
1221
00:41:16,424 –> 00:41:20,024
[Tamiko Toland]: think the expectation is oh yeah we’re gonna be getting our money back in the
1222
00:41:20,104 –> 00:41:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: next year or two right
1223
00:41:21,140 –> 00:41:22,140
[Paul Tyler]: great
1224
00:41:22,504 –> 00:41:23,544
[Tamiko Toland]: um so
1225
00:41:24,444 –> 00:41:25,444
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s
1226
00:41:26,244 –> 00:41:27,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i think
1227
00:41:26,420 –> 00:41:27,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think it
1228
00:41:26,558 –> 00:41:27,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i think
1229
00:41:26,984 –> 00:41:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: at at a high level firms
1230
00:41:29,620 –> 00:41:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: like
1231
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be
1232
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be
1233
00:41:32,524 –> 00:41:33,524
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1234
00:41:32,758 –> 00:41:33,758
[Ramsey Smith]: right
1235
00:41:32,820 –> 00:41:33,820
[Paul Tyler]: right yeah
1236
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you
1237
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you
1238
00:41:35,884 –> 00:41:36,884
[Tamiko Toland]: if you need to
1239
00:41:37,864 –> 00:41:39,944
[Tamiko Toland]: like replenish the coffers quickly i
1240
00:41:40,020 –> 00:41:41,020
[Paul Tyler]: i think it still
1241
00:41:40,024 –> 00:41:43,944
[Tamiko Toland]: think it’s it’s still going to be tough because it’s still very very difficult to
1242
00:41:44,204 –> 00:41:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: predict
1243
00:41:44,978 –> 00:41:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: predict health it is not a really fast
1244
00:41:44,984 –> 00:41:49,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and history tells us that this is not a really fast moving space right
1245
00:41:49,478 –> 00:41:50,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right
1246
00:41:49,760 –> 00:41:51,440
[Paul Tyler]: crazy i think
1247
00:41:50,204 –> 00:41:51,204
[Tamiko Toland]: um but i i mean i
1248
00:41:50,998 –> 00:41:51,998
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean i think that
1249
00:41:51,144 –> 00:41:53,064
[Tamiko Toland]: think the opportunity is obviously still there
1250
00:41:52,838 –> 00:41:53,838
[Ramsey Smith]: there
1251
00:41:53,464 –> 00:41:55,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’re getting so close like it really
1252
00:41:55,538 –> 00:41:58,738
[Ramsey Smith]: you do like really a once but i’m talking
1253
00:41:55,624 –> 00:41:59,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it feels like we’re really on the cusp but on the cusp of something that’s still
1254
00:41:59,318 –> 00:42:00,318
[Ramsey Smith]: really
1255
00:41:59,464 –> 00:42:02,104
[Tamiko Toland]: relatively slow moving right and
1256
00:42:01,540 –> 00:42:02,540
[Paul Tyler]: right and
1257
00:42:03,144 –> 00:42:06,504
[Tamiko Toland]: you know especially large punches want to see what the other ones are doing like
1258
00:42:06,204 –> 00:42:07,204
[Tamiko Toland]: what
1259
00:42:06,420 –> 00:42:07,420
[Paul Tyler]: what
1260
00:42:06,904 –> 00:42:08,664
[Tamiko Toland]: oh what choices are you making you know how
1261
00:42:08,364 –> 00:42:09,364
[Tamiko Toland]: are you
1262
00:42:08,500 –> 00:42:09,500
[Paul Tyler]: i mean
1263
00:42:08,798 –> 00:42:09,798
[Ramsey Smith]: how are you
1264
00:42:09,064 –> 00:42:13,864
[Tamiko Toland]: implementing this how did that go right and i think that that experience feeds
1265
00:42:14,024 –> 00:42:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: into the willingness of others to jump
1266
00:42:15,638 –> 00:42:16,638
[Ramsey Smith]: ju
1267
00:42:15,924 –> 00:42:16,924
[Tamiko Toland]: into it because it’s not
1268
00:42:16,420 –> 00:42:17,420
[Paul Tyler]: not
1269
00:42:16,824 –> 00:42:17,864
[Tamiko Toland]: simply about saying oh great
1270
00:42:17,678 –> 00:42:18,678
[Ramsey Smith]: hungry
1271
00:42:18,024 –> 00:42:19,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know we’re gonna pick this thing
1272
00:42:21,860 –> 00:42:22,860
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey
1273
00:42:22,438 –> 00:42:23,438
[Ramsey Smith]: all right
1274
00:42:22,800 –> 00:42:27,360
[Paul Tyler]: we’re we’re we’re kind of the top of top of the the hour here i don’t know final
1275
00:42:27,760 –> 00:42:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: thoughts questions here
1276
00:42:28,978 –> 00:42:35,618
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah so much so much to chew on there um i was you know i was really struck by
1277
00:42:35,858 –> 00:42:41,778
[Ramsey Smith]: your comment about sort of the culture here the culture of the target audience
1278
00:42:41,858 –> 00:42:45,058
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you think about the there’s two target audiences right the first one is
1279
00:42:45,618 –> 00:42:47,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the plan sponsors the folks that are holding the
1280
00:42:49,218 –> 00:42:53,938
[Ramsey Smith]: that have the assets then the ultimate target obviously is the end conser but
1281
00:42:55,938 –> 00:43:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you pointed out quite rightly so that you have all the people that are in
1282
00:43:00,338 –> 00:43:01,378
[Ramsey Smith]: decision making position
1283
00:43:02,978 –> 00:43:08,178
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t necessarily have a culture of of talking about income at maybe the the
1284
00:43:08,258 –> 00:43:12,098
[Ramsey Smith]: depth that it needs to be for them to be comfortable to move forward with things
1285
00:43:12,178 –> 00:43:17,378
[Ramsey Smith]: like this so it’ll be it’s just an interesting uh conundrum to figure out how to
1286
00:43:17,538 –> 00:43:21,618
[Ramsey Smith]: how to how to get past that point is it the same people be getting educated is it
1287
00:43:21,698 –> 00:43:23,778
[Ramsey Smith]: new people in those roles i don’t know
1288
00:43:24,818 –> 00:43:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but that that is of the many of the many interesting things you said that’s the
1289
00:43:28,418 –> 00:43:31,778
[Ramsey Smith]: one that sticks with me because i feel like that’s that’s often the hardest thing
1290
00:43:31,598 –> 00:43:32,598
[Ramsey Smith]: to overcome
1291
00:43:34,844 –> 00:43:35,844
[Tamiko Toland]: but it’s
1292
00:43:35,420 –> 00:43:36,420
[Paul Tyler]: i need know
1293
00:43:35,704 –> 00:43:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s an opportunity as well for the intermediaries
1294
00:43:39,398 –> 00:43:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: sure
1295
00:43:40,344 –> 00:43:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and let’s not let that point get lost right um ’cause when you talk to folks
1296
00:43:45,784 –> 00:43:47,464
[Tamiko Toland]: about like target date funds
1297
00:43:48,504 –> 00:43:50,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know people who missed the
1298
00:43:49,940 –> 00:43:50,940
[Paul Tyler]: w
1299
00:43:50,264 –> 00:43:52,104
[Tamiko Toland]: bus really missed the bus on that
1300
00:43:52,764 –> 00:43:53,764
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1301
00:43:53,220 –> 00:43:54,220
[Paul Tyler]: do i think that
1302
00:43:53,384 –> 00:43:57,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that the same the same goes for in common and
1303
00:43:58,904 –> 00:44:00,504
[Tamiko Toland]: even if you have not been
1304
00:44:00,100 –> 00:44:01,100
[Paul Tyler]: sh
1305
00:44:00,484 –> 00:44:01,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a passionate
1306
00:44:01,300 –> 00:44:02,300
[Paul Tyler]: about
1307
00:44:01,384 –> 00:44:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: advocate of of income solutions right
1308
00:44:05,280 –> 00:44:08,640
[Paul Tyler]: right i think the i know i have heard about
1309
00:44:05,784 –> 00:44:08,104
[Tamiko Toland]: i think now is a really good time to learn
1310
00:44:08,118 –> 00:44:09,118
[Ramsey Smith]: learn about
1311
00:44:08,344 –> 00:44:09,944
[Tamiko Toland]: about them and w how does
1312
00:44:09,678 –> 00:44:10,678
[Ramsey Smith]: not good
1313
00:44:09,964 –> 00:44:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: this really apply
1314
00:44:11,564 –> 00:44:12,564
[Tamiko Toland]: to
1315
00:44:12,924 –> 00:44:13,924
[Tamiko Toland]: to the
1316
00:44:13,864 –> 00:44:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: workplace savings right and it is different and there are different ways of
1317
00:44:14,080 –> 00:44:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: what we i didn’t eat
1318
00:44:17,704 –> 00:44:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about it there are different ways of breaking down the client cause the
1319
00:44:21,144 –> 00:44:22,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is this like
1320
00:44:22,580 –> 00:44:23,580
[Paul Tyler]: like
1321
00:44:23,224 –> 00:44:26,104
[Tamiko Toland]: or the end user is the sponsor right but it’s
1322
00:44:25,860 –> 00:44:26,860
[Paul Tyler]: what
1323
00:44:26,104 –> 00:44:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: funny because there’s a parallel between retail and how we think about you who’s
1324
00:44:29,464 –> 00:44:31,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is is the client
1325
00:44:30,678 –> 00:44:31,678
[Ramsey Smith]: like
1326
00:44:31,144 –> 00:44:32,184
[Tamiko Toland]: the persons ends
1327
00:44:31,798 –> 00:44:32,798
[Ramsey Smith]: eight
1328
00:44:32,184 –> 00:44:33,624
[Tamiko Toland]: up with the annuity or is the
1329
00:44:33,478 –> 00:44:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the plane
1330
00:44:33,624 –> 00:44:36,984
[Tamiko Toland]: client actually the financial intermediary who
1331
00:44:36,980 –> 00:44:37,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
1332
00:44:37,144 –> 00:44:38,824
[Tamiko Toland]: ends up making that recommendation and
1333
00:44:38,420 –> 00:44:39,420
[Paul Tyler]: and
1334
00:44:38,984 –> 00:44:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: we know that the industry has always
1335
00:44:40,380 –> 00:44:41,380
[Paul Tyler]: he out
1336
00:44:40,504 –> 00:44:42,904
[Tamiko Toland]: seen it as that financial intermediary right
1337
00:44:43,140 –> 00:44:44,140
[Paul Tyler]: and
1338
00:44:43,544 –> 00:44:45,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and the same kind of goes here but
1339
00:44:45,340 –> 00:44:46,340
[Paul Tyler]: you all
1340
00:44:45,544 –> 00:44:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re also they’re providing advice
1341
00:44:46,780 –> 00:44:47,780
[Paul Tyler]: you like
1342
00:44:47,144 –> 00:44:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and they you know they may be providing other other
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00:44:48,820 –> 00:44:49,820
[Paul Tyler]: other
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[Tamiko Toland]: fiduciary services as well
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00:44:51,100 –> 00:44:52,100
[Paul Tyler]: well we
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00:44:51,784 –> 00:44:53,864
[Tamiko Toland]: where it’s very relevant for them to need to be
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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00:44:54,264 –> 00:44:56,264
[Tamiko Toland]: educated to a higher degree you’re
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00:44:56,318 –> 00:44:57,318
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re certainly not
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00:44:56,344 –> 00:44:57,624
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly not gonna be like
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00:44:58,684 –> 00:44:59,684
[Tamiko Toland]: seeing people
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00:44:59,444 –> 00:45:00,444
[Tamiko Toland]: change seats in
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00:44:59,458 –> 00:45:00,738
[Ramsey Smith]: c g c c
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00:45:00,020 –> 00:45:01,020
[Paul Tyler]: oh
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00:45:00,424 –> 00:45:01,864
[Tamiko Toland]: h r departments or
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00:45:01,958 –> 00:45:02,958
[Ramsey Smith]: k
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00:45:02,024 –> 00:45:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: cfos change because of income okay
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00:45:04,924 –> 00:45:05,924
[Tamiko Toland]: so we
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00:45:05,638 –> 00:45:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yep
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00:45:06,024 –> 00:45:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: got to work with what we got here
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00:45:07,380 –> 00:45:08,380
[Paul Tyler]: huh
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00:45:07,478 –> 00:45:08,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right
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00:45:07,484 –> 00:45:08,484
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsey
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00:45:11,140 –> 00:45:12,140
[Paul Tyler]: no this
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00:45:13,200 –> 00:45:14,320
[Paul Tyler]: this is this is terrific
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00:45:16,000 –> 00:45:21,120
[Paul Tyler]: uh i guess for the listeners who are hungry to learn more
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00:45:21,238 –> 00:45:22,238
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:26,320
[Paul Tyler]: or i want to follow you what’s what’s the best way is it is it linkedin is it
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00:45:27,760 –> 00:45:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: your corporate website
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00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:31,900
[Paul Tyler]: think he
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00:45:30,904 –> 00:45:33,224
[Tamiko Toland]: linkedin is great i mean you know can x is
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00:45:32,980 –> 00:45:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: exact
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00:45:33,164 –> 00:45:34,164
[Tamiko Toland]: active on linkedin
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00:45:33,998 –> 00:45:34,998
[Ramsey Smith]: and i
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00:45:34,184 –> 00:45:35,384
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m active on linkedin
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00:45:35,644 –> 00:45:36,644
[Tamiko Toland]: we
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00:45:35,700 –> 00:45:36,700
[Paul Tyler]: oh
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00:45:36,258 –> 00:45:37,858
[Ramsey Smith]: i there all on twitter
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00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research
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00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research
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00:45:39,280 –> 00:45:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: hear any of the uh oh
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00:45:41,564 –> 00:45:42,564
[Tamiko Toland]: and
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00:45:42,264 –> 00:45:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: articles commentary and what have you also
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00:45:42,398 –> 00:45:43,398
[Ramsey Smith]: article
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00:45:44,284 –> 00:45:45,284
[Tamiko Toland]: our
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00:45:44,658 –> 00:45:46,338
[Ramsey Smith]: also our web film
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00:45:44,660 –> 00:45:45,660
[Paul Tyler]: really
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00:45:44,904 –> 00:45:49,464
[Tamiko Toland]: website has a wealth of information under thought leadership as well as if videos
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00:45:49,544 –> 00:45:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and all all kinds of stuff
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00:45:50,598 –> 00:45:51,598
[Ramsey Smith]: stuff
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00:45:50,960 –> 00:45:52,240
[Paul Tyler]: stuff and they
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00:45:51,464 –> 00:45:53,784
[Tamiko Toland]: um and there’s there you know there is
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00:45:53,540 –> 00:45:54,540
[Paul Tyler]: there’s
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00:45:53,558 –> 00:45:54,558
[Ramsey Smith]: here
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00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just
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00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just
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[Paul Tyler]: excellent alright let listen thanks so much there there’s a there’s a lot
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00:45:57,458 –> 00:46:00,658
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m sure there’s a lot of stuff on lifetime income there not some
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00:46:01,284 –> 00:46:02,284
[Tamiko Toland]: what guess
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00:46:02,780 –> 00:46:03,780
[Paul Tyler]: there’s a lot and
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00:46:03,484 –> 00:46:04,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a wea bit
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00:46:03,680 –> 00:46:05,200
[Paul Tyler]: we will put those links we will put
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00:46:04,838 –> 00:46:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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00:46:05,280 –> 00:46:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: those links in the show notes if you want to click in and
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00:46:08,020 –> 00:46:09,020
[Paul Tyler]: connect
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00:46:09,920 –> 00:46:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: or visit the website so taco thanks so much ramsey as usual appreciate all the
1407
00:46:15,060 –> 00:46:16,060
[Paul Tyler]: great
1408
00:46:16,640 –> 00:46:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: questions and thought behind this uh this show um please join us again next week
1409
00:46:21,680 –> 00:46:25,520
[Paul Tyler]: and uh for another very interesting episode of that annuity show
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