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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and
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[Paul Tyler]: ramsey good to see you
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[Ramsey Smith]: always glad to be here
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[Paul Tyler]: and we have a
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[Paul Tyler]: almost regular guest returning guest do you wanna do you wanna do the intro here
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure so time ago i think this is this is at least your third time here and um you
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[Ramsey Smith]: know we should do something like on saturday night live like when you get on when
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[Ramsey Smith]: you host for five times you get like a jacket or something like that so we’re
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[Ramsey Smith]: so third time i think end counting right
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[Ramsey Smith]: delighted to have you back for those of you who don’t know Tamiko Toland she is the
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[Ramsey Smith]: director of retirement markets at k x k x is a leading provider of data for the
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[Ramsey Smith]: insurance life insurance industry and the annuity industry in particular
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[Ramsey Smith]: and Tamiko’s influence
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[Ramsey Smith]: is really remarkable it spans retail and increasingly institutional and that’s
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[Ramsey Smith]: what we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: today is
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[Ramsey Smith]: a lot a lot of the progress that’s going on in what is probably the biggest
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[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity in the guaranteed income space
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[Tamiko Toland]: space
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[Ramsey Smith]: and
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[Ramsey Smith]: the core work that Tamiko her team and her affiliates to doing to get us
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[Ramsey Smith]: there so with that Tamiko
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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s not something
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[Ramsey Smith]: tell us about some of the things that you’ve been you’ve been up to lately
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[Tamiko Toland]: sure
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[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know you
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[Tamiko Toland]: so before i i dive right into the four one key space i’ll
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: mention a couple pieces that came out recently
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[Tamiko Toland]: and one was for investments and wealth monitor and it’s
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[Paul Tyler]: it about nine
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[Tamiko Toland]: really just about the validity of replacing
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[Tamiko Toland]: some or all the fixed income allocation and retirement with a guaranteed income
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[Tamiko Toland]: source and i say it like that because we did the research on based on spa but you
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[Tamiko Toland]: can replace other annuities as well so but still always
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Tamiko Toland]: annuities but
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[Paul Tyler]: but
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[Tamiko Toland]: that this actually
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: improves outcomes um both in terms of income sustainability and
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[Paul Tyler]: get what
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually legacy which is i th
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[Paul Tyler]: i i feel like that’s
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[Tamiko Toland]: i feel like that’s a sort of the hidden story um
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[Paul Tyler]: else
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[Tamiko Toland]: when it comes to guaranteed income that we act
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[Paul Tyler]: y
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[Tamiko Toland]: like it’s it’ going to make legacy worse but anyway so another
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[Paul Tyler]: another
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[Tamiko Toland]: piece uh that i’ve done recently is uh for the journal of pension benefits and it
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[Tamiko Toland]: is on the topic of four hundred thousand that’s been a huge focus of mine over
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[Tamiko Toland]: the last couple of years and we’re very excited to be involved in the lifetime
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[Tamiko Toland]: income consortium where we’re really going to be focusing on this topic with a
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[Tamiko Toland]: group of member companies
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[Tamiko Toland]: this the administrative home for this is broad ridge fi three hundred sixty
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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions and we’re also working with another
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[Tamiko Toland]: friend of the show michelle rector at fiduciary insurance uh services and so yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: happy to talk about any and all that
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[Paul Tyler]: excellent
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[Paul Tyler]: four one k has been a really interesting topic over a number of years actually
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[Paul Tyler]: years ramsey remember i think we did a podcast way back when episode number seven
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[Paul Tyler]: if you want to look and i think when the secure act came out
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[Paul Tyler]: and you think okay two years what’s happened
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[Paul Tyler]: a lot of companies have sort of
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[Paul Tyler]: looked at this opportunity
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[Paul Tyler]: we see some entrances i’ll leave you know rams you can sort of talk about the
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[Paul Tyler]: industry
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[Tamiko Toland]: sometimes
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[Paul Tyler]: landscape but just in the last like two days i’ve had some real
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Paul Tyler]: interesting inbounds to i
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[Paul Tyler]: one was uh you know a writer for for forbes chris caruso saying looking for
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[Paul Tyler]: people’s
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[Paul Tyler]: answers to a question of what will really make this sales happen in the k space
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[Paul Tyler]: i’ll talk to some other questions again but let’s just kind of throw that out
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[Paul Tyler]: what will
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[Paul Tyler]: or what won’t make uh annuities and four hundred one ks work i don’t know which
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[Paul Tyler]: way you want to take it ramsay don’t know
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[Ramsey Smith]: well i’m taking notes ’cause as you mentioned this is this is an area of primary
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[Ramsey Smith]: focus for
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: for me and my in my company and and uh i i have i have some theories
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[Ramsey Smith]: and very interested to hear tom’s input give me some idea about at least what
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[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve tabulated in terms of i’ll call it deals announced
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Ramsey Smith]: right and and they’re in various stages of actual execution but we recently added
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[Ramsey Smith]: up all everything we could find in the press and there’s something like sixty
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[Ramsey Smith]: billion dollars worth of announcements
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that are in in in the space
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[Tamiko Toland]: that was so that’s
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[Ramsey Smith]: so’s not that’s not that’s not huge given the seven trillion opportunity
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: but it’s not insignificant and my guess is it will continue to grow but how we
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[Ramsey Smith]: get there that’s what tomic is going to share with us so so what do you think
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[Paul Tyler]: yes maybe tom yeah start with what won’t try i don’t know
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Paul Tyler]: i’m fascinated to get your your impression
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[Tamiko Toland]: well i i’m gonna take a step back about a decade um in two thousand twelve i
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually wrote a report on in planned guarantees when i was at strategic insight
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[Tamiko Toland]: because
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[Tamiko Toland]: it was a very hot topic and it was about
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[Paul Tyler]: you think read
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Tamiko Toland]: to explode right we all felt like this is necessary it’s beneficial um to
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[Tamiko Toland]: participants right in particular like that’s where a lot of the conversation
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[Tamiko Toland]: focuses
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: is
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[Tamiko Toland]: there
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[Paul Tyler]: you were a lot
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[Tamiko Toland]: were a lot of different companies that were coming out
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[Paul Tyler]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: with initiatives
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[Paul Tyler]: i i have one
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[Tamiko Toland]: that were going to make a big difference and they were really
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: designing around the challenges and
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the big one at that time
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[Paul Tyler]: big one time
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[Tamiko Toland]: was
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[Paul Tyler]: play
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[Tamiko Toland]: eins bernstein and the lifetime income strategy which they
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: actually did get placed as a qa and i’ll explain that a that as a qualified
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[Paul Tyler]: place
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[Tamiko Toland]: default’ investment
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[Tamiko Toland]: alternative right and so this is where
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[Paul Tyler]: wow that was great great branding qualified default wow okay sorry
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[Tamiko Toland]: well it is cause it’s a default
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[Paul Tyler]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: right and this has everything to do with the
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[Tamiko Toland]: all the money in motion um within four o one k plans i mean the target date fund
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[Tamiko Toland]: has become the mainstay and it is because of their use as a q dia right and all
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[Tamiko Toland]: these things are are completely related but
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[Paul Tyler]: but it might
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[Tamiko Toland]: it’s funny because you know at the time
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[Tamiko Toland]: i did this research it was more
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[Paul Tyler]: walk
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[Tamiko Toland]: qualitative research where i talked to folks who were involved and collected
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[Tamiko Toland]: information about the different solutions that were out there and so forth and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: said okay well you know this is foundational and then we’re gonna be you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: going up from here and then it just seemed to stall out and
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[Paul Tyler]: wa
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[Tamiko Toland]: despite the efforts with lines burning in their success with the uc plan which is
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[Tamiko Toland]: now part of raytheon so people refer to it as raytheon because they did implement
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[Tamiko Toland]: it
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah it
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[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s been very successful as such it’s they’ve continued and and full
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[Tamiko Toland]: disclosure they are a client of ours so
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know so what’s happened in the last decade why hasn’t it taken off and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: think there are probably a thousand different smaller reasons
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: that would
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[Tamiko Toland]: that was one of the the um
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the
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[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the
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[Tamiko Toland]: story
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[Tamiko Toland]: story
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[Paul Tyler]: excuse
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[Tamiko Toland]: and we really pen a lot of the changes on the secure act and i i i do think it’s
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[Tamiko Toland]: helpful and it’s certainly um beneficial
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[Tamiko Toland]: but the reality is that there are a lot of other um
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[Tamiko Toland]: like through
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: lines in the industry that are coming together and
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: i kind of want to get to
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[Tamiko Toland]: why is it that plan sponsors
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[Paul Tyler]: you really
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[Tamiko Toland]: really need to consider adoption of
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income it because it the ultimate reason
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[Paul Tyler]: thank you
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[Tamiko Toland]: is not altruistic you know we don’t companies don’t have this paternalistic
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[Tamiko Toland]: attitude in general like we need to take care of people obviously we know the
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[Tamiko Toland]: trend that pensions are dissipating and they’re being
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[Tamiko Toland]: replaced by dc so naturally we need to include some kind of income solution as
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[Paul Tyler]: like like yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: part of so
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[Paul Tyler]: why not
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[Tamiko Toland]: why hasn’t it happened why
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[Paul Tyler]: he get
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[Tamiko Toland]: is it going to suddenly happen i
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[Tamiko Toland]: mean frankly in terms of the economic environment
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[Paul Tyler]: she frankly
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[Tamiko Toland]: um when people are facing uncertainty and
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[Paul Tyler]: you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i really do think that low interest rates have influences this not
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[Tamiko Toland]: something we really talk about a lot
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[Tamiko Toland]: but the methods that we use to generate income and retirement regardless of where
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[Tamiko Toland]: you’re sitting have
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[Tamiko Toland]: really deteriorated bond ladders don’t have the power that they used to so now
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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re talking about all this as
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[Tamiko Toland]: um moving
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: attitudes in the retail arena well
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[Paul Tyler]: i think
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[Tamiko Toland]: the same really applies it’s the same people right it’s just
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[Paul Tyler]: thank you
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[Tamiko Toland]: regular american workers who are saving
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[Paul Tyler]: is
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[Tamiko Toland]: and when they
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[Tamiko Toland]: approach retirement when they reach retirement age and they do not have the
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[Tamiko Toland]: confidence to retire
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[Tamiko Toland]: and they’re
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Tamiko Toland]: much more likely to stay at their companies
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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly this is a workforce management issue for companies that want to be
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[Tamiko Toland]: able to hire younger workers promote them through you can’t promote people when
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[Tamiko Toland]: there’s folks already sitting in those positions so that company life cycle
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[Tamiko Toland]: really gets stalled when you have people not retiring right and when you you have
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[Tamiko Toland]: folks that are hanging on not because they’re passionate about their work and
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[Tamiko Toland]: want
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[Paul Tyler]: was
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[Tamiko Toland]: to continue working retirement which is a very valid thing that we talk about so
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[Tamiko Toland]: much more now with you know
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[Paul Tyler]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: a revision of how we view retirement but when that’s not the reason people are
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[Tamiko Toland]: are sticking to their jobs
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[Paul Tyler]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know i think there are a lot
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[Paul Tyler]: about
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[Tamiko Toland]: of additional workforce issues and older workers are more expensive to companies
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[Paul Tyler]: and we don’t want talk and i
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[Tamiko Toland]: and you know we don’t want to talk about this and and i really i don’t want to
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[Tamiko Toland]: make sure that i’m be careful not to speak about this from an age’s perspective
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[Tamiko Toland]: because i you know i’m also like
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[Tamiko Toland]: leaning that direction as we all are time time moves in one direction for all of
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[Tamiko Toland]: us
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[Tamiko Toland]: but you really want people to be able to enjoy the retirements that they’ve been
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[Tamiko Toland]: saving for but when you’re not giving them that confidence and you’re not giving
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[Tamiko Toland]: them lifetime income then that
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[Paul Tyler]: that is
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[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t going to happen i
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[Tamiko Toland]: haven’t answered your question but i i see ramsey taking notes and i have a
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[Paul Tyler]: i have these i pay
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[Tamiko Toland]: feeling there might be some more questions flying my way so we we’ll get there
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[Ramsey Smith]: so yes i i was gonna say that is the that is the politest version of o k boomer
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[Ramsey Smith]: i’ve ever heard
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[Ramsey Smith]: um but it’s but let me let me ask you about this so
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[Paul Tyler]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: um
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[Paul Tyler]: um
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[Ramsey Smith]: do you do you get the sense that that companies
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[Ramsey Smith]: hr departments
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[Ramsey Smith]: the folks that are sort of actually dealing with this particular problem you you
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[Ramsey Smith]: you’re saying this can potentially address do you think they see that yet right
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[Ramsey Smith]: do are you
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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i mean i is that a i i i’m at the end of the day at the end of the day in
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[Ramsey Smith]: order for this to work there have to be pain points right they have to be sort of
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[Ramsey Smith]: pain
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[Tamiko Toland]: that
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[Ramsey Smith]: points that people are
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[Ramsey Smith]: are determined to sort of
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[Tamiko Toland]: just
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[Ramsey Smith]: resolve and so the question is is that a big enough pain point yet you think
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[Tamiko Toland]: i
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[Paul Tyler]: i have that
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[Ramsey Smith]: i i think that that
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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that it’s a combination of factors and
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: yes
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: i do think that
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[Ramsey Smith]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue
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[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue
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[Tamiko Toland]: and i
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[Ramsey Smith]: and i
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[Paul Tyler]: and i think it it just something something like
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[Tamiko Toland]: think and i don’t forget there’s also
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[Ramsey Smith]: like that
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[Tamiko Toland]: like the there’s the
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[Paul Tyler]: parent
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[Tamiko Toland]: carrot not just the stick that
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of
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[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of
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[Tamiko Toland]: times
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[Tamiko Toland]: times
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[Tamiko Toland]: that’s what
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[Ramsey Smith]: would be hard
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[Tamiko Toland]: we talk about right
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[Tamiko Toland]: oh
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[Paul Tyler]: oh
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[Ramsey Smith]: oh
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[Tamiko Toland]: participants really want this but participants
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[Ramsey Smith]: one
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[Tamiko Toland]: wanting it isn’t necessarily enough to get
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know your
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[Tamiko Toland]: over the barrier of oh there’s risk for the sponsor and that has been where
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[Ramsey Smith]: your
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[Tamiko Toland]: a lot of the conversations have really
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[Paul Tyler]: water
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[Tamiko Toland]: revolved around and so it’s it’s some you know like it it’s a set of factors and
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[Tamiko Toland]: and one of them is
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[Paul Tyler]: born
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[Tamiko Toland]: lowering the barrier
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[Tamiko Toland]: from a risk perspective which
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[Tamiko Toland]: secure
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[Paul Tyler]: you
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[Ramsey Smith]: here i actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: act does actually uh remove
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[Tamiko Toland]: that
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: that of
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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of including a safe harb for selection of the insurer but there’s still
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[Tamiko Toland]: a big
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[Tamiko Toland]: gap
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: for implementation
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[Paul Tyler]: and it is
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[Tamiko Toland]: and it is a very significant gap which is
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[Paul Tyler]: how
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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: make the choice
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[Tamiko Toland]: and we
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[Tamiko Toland]: we
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[Ramsey Smith]: you know that there are
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[Paul Tyler]: else there are right
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[Tamiko Toland]: that there are sort of tried and true methods for other other
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[Paul Tyler]: other
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[Ramsey Smith]: other friend
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[Tamiko Toland]: investments target date funds right like yes
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[Ramsey Smith]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: we understand
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[Tamiko Toland]: how
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[Ramsey Smith]: i
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[Tamiko Toland]: other investment options um you know make it into a plan
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[Tamiko Toland]: um but we’re talking about something that’s not just another investment
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[Tamiko Toland]: income is a completely different conversation and it works differently it
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[Ramsey Smith]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: affects the
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[Paul Tyler]: scientific
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[Tamiko Toland]: dynamics and you know particularly because you’re talking about post retirement
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[Ramsey Smith]: dynamic
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[Tamiko Toland]: right
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[Ramsey Smith]: like the do we
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[Tamiko Toland]: that that’s really where it kicks in so how
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[Tamiko Toland]: does it behave
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[Ramsey Smith]: so how ca
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[Paul Tyler]: keep water
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[Tamiko Toland]: before retirement do we have the same expectations that we do for other
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Tamiko Toland]: investments and so it’s a different mindset and so when you ask
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[Paul Tyler]: yes
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[Tamiko Toland]: me like what is the biggest challenge
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[Ramsey Smith]: out
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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been
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[Tamiko Toland]: we have been
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[Tamiko Toland]: working on a lot of the solutions that are necessary for example middleware
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[Tamiko Toland]: solutions which are
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[Paul Tyler]: really
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[Tamiko Toland]: really important for kind
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[Paul Tyler]: kind of
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[Tamiko Toland]: of like the connective tissue all right
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[Paul Tyler]: any
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[Tamiko Toland]: for you know getting everybody hooked up to this right and you know
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[Paul Tyler]: that
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[Ramsey Smith]: does that work
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[Tamiko Toland]: that market has matured significantly in the last decade right where pe you know
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[Tamiko Toland]: we’re seeing some some very positive change right but the reality is that for the
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[Tamiko Toland]: folks who are actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: look at considering these solutions income is not their native language
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[Tamiko Toland]: and
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[Paul Tyler]: i think that
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[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that is a huge hurdle
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[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of
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[Tamiko Toland]: getting
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[Tamiko Toland]: the let’s say the consultants retirement plan advisors comfortable with making
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[Tamiko Toland]: those recommendations and confident that they are doing that appropriately for
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[Tamiko Toland]: the sponsor client right and
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[Tamiko Toland]: the
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s a lot
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors have to feel like
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[Ramsey Smith]: like yeah that that makes sense it fun
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[Tamiko Toland]: yeah that that makes sense and i don’t think i just stuck
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah that’s it i
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[Ramsey Smith]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: my neck out in order to do this and it’s not simply a matter of a legislative fix
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[Tamiko Toland]: because we like we don’t need another like
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[Paul Tyler]: like
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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this
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[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this
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[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly the department of labor generally stays away from that like that you
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[Tamiko Toland]: know these things kind of evolve and the general guidelines yes but not very
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[Tamiko Toland]: specific details and particularly on a really a novel subject matter and a novel
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[Tamiko Toland]: product dynamic which is what income represents
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[Paul Tyler]: so okay when i
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[Paul Tyler]: a two part question when i think toco of the group market i think like you
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[Paul Tyler]: mentioned a company with a very you know a very big company right
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[Paul Tyler]: if you’re marketing products or retirement plans into a large company the needs
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[Paul Tyler]: start to tier like executive senior the super executive management team may have
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[Paul Tyler]: they may have a fee based only advisory service that helps them do
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[Tamiko Toland]: see
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[Paul Tyler]: this you to go down
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[Tamiko Toland]: or something
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[Paul Tyler]: another tier these people aren’t so they they’ve got some big balances but
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[Paul Tyler]: they’re not going to have an advisor you get down farther than the company where
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[Paul Tyler]: i think i think i heard
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[Ramsey Smith]: favorite
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[Paul Tyler]: you talking
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[Paul Tyler]: or speaking to are people who are you know they’re just trying to pay the bills
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[Paul Tyler]: oh by the way
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[Ramsey Smith]: lot of time
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[Paul Tyler]: oh gee i did have a four one k
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[Paul Tyler]: how do you do you see the segmentation
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[Paul Tyler]: the drivers of adoption being or should they
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[Ramsey Smith]: really
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[Paul Tyler]: be different based on your income inside a company
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[Tamiko Toland]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: no
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[Tamiko Toland]: the thing is that the
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: really the
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[Ramsey Smith]: like that mind
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[Tamiko Toland]: mindset of thinking around this is that the
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[Ramsey Smith]: second actually
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[Tamiko Toland]: qt is the place where the assets fall because that is the you know the default
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[Tamiko Toland]: flows into the qa and that now has become target date funds right and so
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: it’s the same thing of how we think about income
430
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: now i’m
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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you john
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[Tamiko Toland]: gonna be honest with you like rich people
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[Ramsey Smith]: s
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[Tamiko Toland]: are fine right
436
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[Ramsey Smith]: right they’re knowing somebody
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[Tamiko Toland]: there’s always somebody who’s willing to give them
438
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[Tamiko Toland]: advice they they have lots of access to advice but the people who truly benefit
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[Ramsey Smith]: why have that
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Tamiko Toland]: within a retirement plan are those individuals who
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[Paul Tyler]: how do i smoke but
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[Tamiko Toland]: otherwise have no access to advice or guidance or anything right and so the
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[Tamiko Toland]: default all this entire structure that we’re talking about
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[Paul Tyler]: e really
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[Paul Tyler]: e really
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[Tamiko Toland]: is really
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah sus
449
00:16:43,884 –> 00:16:44,884
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s
450
00:16:44,500 –> 00:16:45,500
[Paul Tyler]: i
451
00:16:44,744 –> 00:16:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: designed to help those individuals who are much more on the margins and if if you
452
00:16:51,164 –> 00:16:52,164
[Tamiko Toland]: have outside
453
00:16:51,900 –> 00:16:52,900
[Paul Tyler]: i like
454
00:16:52,264 –> 00:16:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: advice and your advice says no no no we have this different plan you don’t need
455
00:16:56,184 –> 00:17:00,024
[Tamiko Toland]: this you know we’ll put your money into something else that’s completely
456
00:17:00,104 –> 00:17:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: fine and that is how the
457
00:17:00,198 –> 00:17:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: why not
458
00:17:02,024 –> 00:17:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: q is structured it’s a default it’s not
459
00:17:02,098 –> 00:17:03,138
[Ramsey Smith]: out thirty
460
00:17:03,878 –> 00:17:04,878
[Ramsey Smith]: not
461
00:17:04,344 –> 00:17:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: like you’re not forced to stay in it right but but it needs to be
462
00:17:10,184 –> 00:17:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: a quality solution
463
00:17:12,824 –> 00:17:16,424
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals who may not be
464
00:17:16,038 –> 00:17:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: y
465
00:17:16,424 –> 00:17:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulating as much money in you know during their working years for retirement
466
00:17:21,460 –> 00:17:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: so
467
00:17:22,024 –> 00:17:27,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and who probably aren’t going to get other guidance right and so this is exactly
468
00:17:26,764 –> 00:17:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: why
469
00:17:27,724 –> 00:17:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: so
470
00:17:27,780 –> 00:17:28,780
[Paul Tyler]: so
471
00:17:27,958 –> 00:17:28,958
[Ramsey Smith]: so
472
00:17:28,344 –> 00:17:29,544
[Tamiko Toland]: many people are
473
00:17:29,420 –> 00:17:30,420
[Paul Tyler]: pla
474
00:17:29,784 –> 00:17:32,264
[Tamiko Toland]: passionate about this that it’s not yes
475
00:17:32,004 –> 00:17:33,004
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean
476
00:17:32,020 –> 00:17:33,020
[Paul Tyler]: i
477
00:17:32,664 –> 00:17:33,704
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s it’s great like that
478
00:17:32,738 –> 00:17:34,178
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean like the
479
00:17:33,380 –> 00:17:34,380
[Paul Tyler]: like that
480
00:17:33,844 –> 00:17:34,844
[Tamiko Toland]: from an asset gathering
481
00:17:34,838 –> 00:17:35,838
[Ramsey Smith]: now
482
00:17:34,904 –> 00:17:38,664
[Tamiko Toland]: standpoint whatever you know servicing all these people but you know you get
483
00:17:38,364 –> 00:17:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: folks
484
00:17:38,918 –> 00:17:39,918
[Ramsey Smith]: smoke
485
00:17:39,224 –> 00:17:43,384
[Tamiko Toland]: like me who care deeply about it because you see this is a fantastic
486
00:17:43,238 –> 00:17:44,238
[Ramsey Smith]: not
487
00:17:43,464 –> 00:17:44,984
[Tamiko Toland]: way to reach
488
00:17:46,264 –> 00:17:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: so many americans in a way
489
00:17:47,798 –> 00:17:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: we
490
00:17:48,344 –> 00:17:50,424
[Tamiko Toland]: that the retail space is not going to
491
00:17:51,158 –> 00:17:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: so
492
00:17:51,300 –> 00:17:52,300
[Paul Tyler]: oh
493
00:17:52,018 –> 00:17:56,978
[Ramsey Smith]: okay this is this is very you know interesting interesting element of it because
494
00:17:58,178 –> 00:18:04,658
[Ramsey Smith]: we live in a world where where this the same three the esg acronym comes up a lot
495
00:18:05,138 –> 00:18:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: it comes up in investing it comes up certainly in board work i can tell you it
496
00:18:09,938 –> 00:18:11,938
[Ramsey Smith]: comes up in a lot of different places like esg
497
00:18:13,138 –> 00:18:14,498
[Ramsey Smith]: is is on the tip of
498
00:18:14,380 –> 00:18:15,380
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
499
00:18:14,498 –> 00:18:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: everybody’s tongues because it’s it’s
500
00:18:15,878 –> 00:18:16,878
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s
501
00:18:16,044 –> 00:18:17,044
[Tamiko Toland]: expensive
502
00:18:16,260 –> 00:18:17,260
[Paul Tyler]: what
503
00:18:16,658 –> 00:18:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: important in every aspect of business now
504
00:18:19,558 –> 00:18:20,558
[Ramsey Smith]: and you know one
505
00:18:20,100 –> 00:18:21,100
[Paul Tyler]: what
506
00:18:20,638 –> 00:18:21,638
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of sleeve of
507
00:18:21,278 –> 00:18:22,278
[Ramsey Smith]: esg
508
00:18:21,300 –> 00:18:22,300
[Paul Tyler]: yes
509
00:18:21,884 –> 00:18:22,884
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s pretty
510
00:18:22,338 –> 00:18:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s often talked about is banking to the un banked and you know here we’re
511
00:18:28,498 –> 00:18:34,418
[Ramsey Smith]: talking about i don’t have as neat a catch phrase as that but it’s sort of the it
512
00:18:34,498 –> 00:18:38,658
[Ramsey Smith]: is retirement income to the un income for lack of a better way
513
00:18:39,858 –> 00:18:41,858
[Ramsey Smith]: way to describe it but i’ve i very
514
00:18:41,780 –> 00:18:42,780
[Paul Tyler]: you
515
00:18:42,178 –> 00:18:45,698
[Ramsey Smith]: rarely heard it one described as an esg issue
516
00:18:46,818 –> 00:18:51,538
[Ramsey Smith]: and two i don’t really think i’ve heard any of the the current proponents of the
517
00:18:51,158 –> 00:18:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: space
518
00:18:52,518 –> 00:18:53,518
[Ramsey Smith]: uh you
519
00:18:53,298 –> 00:18:59,218
[Ramsey Smith]: know describing it that way as as opportunistically as everybody else is using
520
00:18:53,360 –> 00:18:56,240
[Paul Tyler]: it was like that way yeah
521
00:18:59,858 –> 00:19:04,738
[Ramsey Smith]: using that acronym everywhere else in the business world so what your thoughts on
522
00:19:04,738 –> 00:19:07,298
[Ramsey Smith]: there is that a missed opportunity cause i think it’s real
523
00:19:09,164 –> 00:19:10,164
[Tamiko Toland]: um
524
00:19:12,024 –> 00:19:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m not sure i mean i i think that i
525
00:19:13,958 –> 00:19:14,958
[Ramsey Smith]: i
526
00:19:14,424 –> 00:19:15,544
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly have heard other people
527
00:19:15,238 –> 00:19:16,238
[Ramsey Smith]: it
528
00:19:15,704 –> 00:19:18,984
[Tamiko Toland]: talk about i’m not the only one who has articulated it like that
529
00:19:18,598 –> 00:19:19,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
530
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:20,500
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i
531
00:19:19,704 –> 00:19:22,584
[Tamiko Toland]: so i think there are other voices out there saying the same thing
532
00:19:23,544 –> 00:19:25,784
[Tamiko Toland]: and i definitely see that passion
533
00:19:23,600 –> 00:19:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: and i guess see that
534
00:19:26,824 –> 00:19:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: um among other stakeholders um
535
00:19:29,380 –> 00:19:30,380
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
536
00:19:30,024 –> 00:19:31,624
[Tamiko Toland]: you know is this the marketing opportunity
537
00:19:32,684 –> 00:19:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: i
538
00:19:32,980 –> 00:19:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
539
00:19:33,118 –> 00:19:34,118
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know
540
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how
541
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how
542
00:19:36,420 –> 00:19:37,420
[Paul Tyler]: how
543
00:19:38,264 –> 00:19:40,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the these solutions are going to be placed
544
00:19:41,300 –> 00:19:42,300
[Paul Tyler]: and
545
00:19:41,784 –> 00:19:42,824
[Tamiko Toland]: and that
546
00:19:43,724 –> 00:19:44,724
[Tamiko Toland]: the
547
00:19:43,980 –> 00:19:44,980
[Paul Tyler]: the can
548
00:19:44,084 –> 00:19:45,084
[Tamiko Toland]: mechanical
549
00:19:44,718 –> 00:19:45,718
[Ramsey Smith]: go back
550
00:19:44,984 –> 00:19:47,624
[Tamiko Toland]: factors the the choices
551
00:19:47,398 –> 00:19:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: this
552
00:19:47,784 –> 00:19:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that sponsors need to make
553
00:19:49,244 –> 00:19:50,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i
554
00:19:49,760 –> 00:19:52,320
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t think that that but i i think that
555
00:19:49,864 –> 00:19:52,824
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t think that that’s the thing but i do think that that drives
556
00:19:49,938 –> 00:19:52,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t think that that i think five
557
00:19:53,404 –> 00:19:54,404
[Tamiko Toland]: really
558
00:19:55,304 –> 00:19:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the legislative components right and the fact that in the regulatory
559
00:19:59,684 –> 00:20:00,684
[Tamiko Toland]: piece say we want
560
00:20:00,358 –> 00:20:01,358
[Ramsey Smith]: want be
561
00:20:00,664 –> 00:20:02,744
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this easier we w we and we
562
00:20:02,598 –> 00:20:03,598
[Ramsey Smith]: if one is
563
00:20:02,824 –> 00:20:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: want it to be safe so it’s
564
00:20:04,198 –> 00:20:05,198
[Ramsey Smith]: b
565
00:20:04,424 –> 00:20:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: balancing those interests out
566
00:20:05,638 –> 00:20:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: nine
567
00:20:06,184 –> 00:20:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: because you want to
568
00:20:07,438 –> 00:20:08,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what do you ask
569
00:20:07,624 –> 00:20:09,224
[Tamiko Toland]: increase access to all
570
00:20:09,180 –> 00:20:10,180
[Paul Tyler]: all the american
571
00:20:09,198 –> 00:20:10,198
[Ramsey Smith]: of america
572
00:20:09,384 –> 00:20:14,024
[Tamiko Toland]: these americans which is you know that’s a very good goal for our our government
573
00:20:14,824 –> 00:20:16,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know folks working there to be
574
00:20:16,500 –> 00:20:17,500
[Paul Tyler]: think
575
00:20:16,904 –> 00:20:21,144
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about and they also want to make sure that it’s done responsibly so you
576
00:20:21,100 –> 00:20:22,100
[Paul Tyler]: you know i i just
577
00:20:21,224 –> 00:20:23,144
[Tamiko Toland]: know i i think that that may be a more
578
00:20:21,298 –> 00:20:22,498
[Ramsey Smith]: you know i i think it’s that
579
00:20:23,478 –> 00:20:24,478
[Ramsey Smith]: well
580
00:20:23,704 –> 00:20:25,224
[Tamiko Toland]: relevant conversation there
581
00:20:24,820 –> 00:20:25,820
[Paul Tyler]: there
582
00:20:24,998 –> 00:20:25,998
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
583
00:20:25,764 –> 00:20:26,764
[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s a
584
00:20:26,318 –> 00:20:27,318
[Ramsey Smith]: the one i
585
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
586
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
587
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different
588
00:20:28,258 –> 00:20:29,378
[Ramsey Smith]: um you know
589
00:20:28,584 –> 00:20:30,744
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know like i say when it
590
00:20:30,598 –> 00:20:31,598
[Ramsey Smith]: something
591
00:20:30,904 –> 00:20:34,184
[Tamiko Toland]: comes to building these q solutions this
592
00:20:34,184 –> 00:20:39,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is a different way of thinking about income than we’re really accustomed to in
593
00:20:34,258 –> 00:20:35,698
[Ramsey Smith]: which is a different way
594
00:20:39,464 –> 00:20:41,464
[Tamiko Toland]: retail because you know when you have an individual
595
00:20:41,540 –> 00:20:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: white
596
00:20:41,864 –> 00:20:45,384
[Tamiko Toland]: client and you know what their needs are then you make selections that are really
597
00:20:45,284 –> 00:20:46,284
[Tamiko Toland]: much more
598
00:20:47,304 –> 00:20:53,704
[Tamiko Toland]: optimized for you know what their goals are right and so you can use these you
599
00:20:53,324 –> 00:20:54,324
[Tamiko Toland]: know
600
00:20:53,780 –> 00:20:54,780
[Paul Tyler]: i
601
00:20:54,044 –> 00:20:55,044
[Tamiko Toland]: products that are as
602
00:20:55,198 –> 00:20:56,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i know
603
00:20:55,304 –> 00:20:59,224
[Tamiko Toland]: we all know like so much of the annuity industry has become highly specialized
604
00:20:59,324 –> 00:21:00,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know you have
605
00:21:00,258 –> 00:21:01,618
[Ramsey Smith]: no that is
606
00:21:00,424 –> 00:21:03,144
[Tamiko Toland]: you know this benefit that’s torque one way
607
00:21:02,878 –> 00:21:03,878
[Ramsey Smith]: one way
608
00:21:03,304 –> 00:21:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and other benefit that’s toed in
609
00:21:04,838 –> 00:21:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: another way
610
00:21:05,144 –> 00:21:08,264
[Tamiko Toland]: another way and they are different use cases right and
611
00:21:08,580 –> 00:21:09,580
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
612
00:21:08,904 –> 00:21:13,384
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s to the benefit of the end client of making it more focused right and that
613
00:21:12,518 –> 00:21:13,518
[Ramsey Smith]: i
614
00:21:13,140 –> 00:21:14,140
[Paul Tyler]: that what
615
00:21:13,164 –> 00:21:14,164
[Tamiko Toland]: doesn’t apply
616
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:14,198
[Ramsey Smith]: think that a lot
617
00:21:15,064 –> 00:21:19,144
[Tamiko Toland]: right so much when you think about pda you’re not necessarily having a single
618
00:21:19,004 –> 00:21:20,004
[Tamiko Toland]: minded goal like
619
00:21:19,564 –> 00:21:20,564
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re
620
00:21:19,798 –> 00:21:20,798
[Ramsey Smith]: talk
621
00:21:19,860 –> 00:21:20,860
[Paul Tyler]: i my
622
00:21:20,264 –> 00:21:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: not trying to maximize income for every single person you have to balance out
623
00:21:24,198 –> 00:21:25,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i
624
00:21:24,664 –> 00:21:26,824
[Tamiko Toland]: those interests because some people are going to end
625
00:21:26,678 –> 00:21:27,678
[Ramsey Smith]: and i
626
00:21:26,984 –> 00:21:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: up at retirement not selecting that that benefit despite the fact that they’ve
627
00:21:31,544 –> 00:21:35,224
[Tamiko Toland]: paid into it whether it’s a decision made out of ignorance or they got diagnosed
628
00:21:35,224 –> 00:21:38,504
[Tamiko Toland]: with the terrible cancer right before they retired you know and they have
629
00:21:39,224 –> 00:21:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: different goals um for their their post working years
630
00:21:43,458 –> 00:21:44,498
[Ramsey Smith]: about art
631
00:21:43,604 –> 00:21:44,604
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there are
632
00:21:46,904 –> 00:21:48,824
[Tamiko Toland]: it is just a different problem to solve
633
00:21:49,078 –> 00:21:50,078
[Ramsey Smith]: g
634
00:21:49,284 –> 00:21:50,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right then
635
00:21:49,980 –> 00:21:50,980
[Paul Tyler]: wow
636
00:21:50,424 –> 00:21:53,304
[Tamiko Toland]: looking at it as you know client a
637
00:21:52,398 –> 00:21:53,398
[Ramsey Smith]: it was funny
638
00:21:53,740 –> 00:21:54,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so i
639
00:21:53,884 –> 00:21:54,884
[Tamiko Toland]: and
640
00:21:54,438 –> 00:21:55,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what
641
00:21:54,504 –> 00:21:55,864
[Tamiko Toland]: fitting solutions to that
642
00:21:55,220 –> 00:21:56,220
[Paul Tyler]: okay
643
00:21:55,558 –> 00:21:56,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what
644
00:21:56,000 –> 00:22:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: so here here’s okay you are the in command of you’re running the hr benefits for
645
00:22:03,700 –> 00:22:04,700
[Paul Tyler]: a target i
646
00:22:04,438 –> 00:22:05,438
[Ramsey Smith]: b
647
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:09,680
[Paul Tyler]: just took it take a job as uh you know somebody working in one of the stores i’m
648
00:22:09,760 –> 00:22:11,440
[Paul Tyler]: a assistant manager of a store
649
00:22:12,960 –> 00:22:16,640
[Paul Tyler]: how does how should the onboarding experience be when i fill at the application
650
00:22:18,000 –> 00:22:20,240
[Paul Tyler]: come to the point of okay set up your paycheck
651
00:22:21,520 –> 00:22:24,720
[Paul Tyler]: how much pal do you want to put into your four o one k o here’s the match
652
00:22:26,000 –> 00:22:30,000
[Paul Tyler]: how would you change that that setup for me to start putting money in there do i
653
00:22:30,080 –> 00:22:35,280
[Paul Tyler]: have a choice is there a default you know if you don’t say this paul you will get
654
00:22:35,920 –> 00:22:41,520
[Paul Tyler]: x percent of your savings in the four k and x percent is going to default into
655
00:22:41,540 –> 00:22:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: this income
656
00:22:43,060 –> 00:22:44,060
[Paul Tyler]: benefit
657
00:22:44,204 –> 00:22:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: well
658
00:22:44,678 –> 00:22:45,678
[Ramsey Smith]: that
659
00:22:44,904 –> 00:22:51,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the idea behind defaulting is that you don’t have to convince paul to sign
660
00:22:50,844 –> 00:22:51,844
[Tamiko Toland]: up
661
00:22:52,204 –> 00:22:53,204
[Tamiko Toland]: that you
662
00:22:54,024 –> 00:22:59,384
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t need to get educated about the benefits of of contributing to four o one k
663
00:22:59,624 –> 00:23:03,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the money goes in there you get your match and then you’re put into something
664
00:23:03,704 –> 00:23:07,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s suitable for you right and so conceptually yes that those are all
665
00:23:09,624 –> 00:23:10,984
[Tamiko Toland]: components of why
666
00:23:10,580 –> 00:23:11,580
[Paul Tyler]: why
667
00:23:11,064 –> 00:23:15,064
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re thinking so strongly about qa and not simply having sort of the
668
00:23:15,064 –> 00:23:17,304
[Tamiko Toland]: availability of options
669
00:23:18,664 –> 00:23:23,304
[Tamiko Toland]: before or at retirement that’s part of what the industry calls the retirement
670
00:23:23,464 –> 00:23:27,784
[Tamiko Toland]: tier right which is a range of different options to suit two different needs
671
00:23:27,724 –> 00:23:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: right
672
00:23:28,158 –> 00:23:29,158
[Ramsey Smith]: you could
673
00:23:28,504 –> 00:23:34,104
[Tamiko Toland]: but a lot of that is elective and not defaulted um you know it was interesting i
674
00:23:33,724 –> 00:23:34,724
[Tamiko Toland]: was
675
00:23:34,380 –> 00:23:35,380
[Paul Tyler]: out uh
676
00:23:34,424 –> 00:23:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: at the deci a innovation forum and
677
00:23:37,860 –> 00:23:38,860
[Paul Tyler]: oh
678
00:23:38,664 –> 00:23:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: somebody was presenting information about
679
00:23:42,264 –> 00:23:47,304
[Tamiko Toland]: engagement with plans and that defaulting is great for getting people into the
680
00:23:47,464 –> 00:23:50,664
[Tamiko Toland]: plan but people don’t engage with their plans as much when
681
00:23:50,340 –> 00:23:51,340
[Paul Tyler]: maybe
682
00:23:50,824 –> 00:23:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re simply defaulted right and so there’s kind of a tension between these
683
00:23:56,744 –> 00:23:57,864
[Tamiko Toland]: facts because you want
684
00:23:58,104 –> 00:24:00,744
[Tamiko Toland]: people to understand what they’re in and to perhaps
685
00:23:58,158 –> 00:23:59,158
[Ramsey Smith]: one one three
686
00:24:00,558 –> 00:24:01,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i watch
687
00:24:00,824 –> 00:24:04,744
[Tamiko Toland]: decide to increase their allocation right and so this is actually kind of a whole
688
00:24:04,824 –> 00:24:09,464
[Tamiko Toland]: other conversation around participant engagement that would also be beneficial
689
00:24:09,544 –> 00:24:11,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and also enhances because you know
690
00:24:11,460 –> 00:24:12,460
[Paul Tyler]: we
691
00:24:11,784 –> 00:24:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly people aren’t used to they use the idea
692
00:24:13,940 –> 00:24:14,940
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
693
00:24:14,504 –> 00:24:16,584
[Tamiko Toland]: of receiving income from their employer
694
00:24:17,484 –> 00:24:18,484
[Tamiko Toland]: through a pension
695
00:24:18,980 –> 00:24:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: but they’re not
696
00:24:19,224 –> 00:24:22,744
[Tamiko Toland]: but they’re not used to this as part of the four o one k because it’s it’s not a
697
00:24:22,824 –> 00:24:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: standard part of the landscape frankly you know relatively few plans even offer
698
00:24:27,624 –> 00:24:28,664
[Tamiko Toland]: it on on the
699
00:24:28,638 –> 00:24:29,638
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know
700
00:24:28,744 –> 00:24:30,584
[Tamiko Toland]: outbound you when you retire
701
00:24:31,164 –> 00:24:32,164
[Tamiko Toland]: but
702
00:24:31,680 –> 00:24:34,480
[Paul Tyler]: but you know i i wanna ask there’s
703
00:24:31,838 –> 00:24:32,838
[Ramsey Smith]: but you know i
704
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for
705
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for
706
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these
707
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these
708
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest
709
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest
710
00:24:46,104 –> 00:24:47,224
[Tamiko Toland]: um it you
711
00:24:46,820 –> 00:24:47,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
712
00:24:46,884 –> 00:24:47,884
[Tamiko Toland]: know s
713
00:24:47,798 –> 00:24:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: some sometimes
714
00:24:47,864 –> 00:24:50,104
[Tamiko Toland]: some some designs they may roll
715
00:24:49,838 –> 00:24:50,838
[Ramsey Smith]: wow
716
00:24:50,184 –> 00:24:52,424
[Tamiko Toland]: out but a lot of them you’re keeping
717
00:24:53,844 –> 00:24:54,844
[Tamiko Toland]: if not all the
718
00:24:54,358 –> 00:24:55,358
[Ramsey Smith]: all that
719
00:24:54,744 –> 00:24:57,704
[Tamiko Toland]: acids are bulk of them inside the plan so
720
00:24:57,940 –> 00:24:58,940
[Paul Tyler]: right
721
00:24:58,278 –> 00:24:59,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so
722
00:24:58,640 –> 00:25:01,360
[Paul Tyler]: amy sorry we just one follow up on that
723
00:25:03,760 –> 00:25:07,840
[Paul Tyler]: my experience has been it is so hard to change a form from an insurance company
724
00:25:08,080 –> 00:25:09,440
[Paul Tyler]: or a fourk provider
725
00:25:11,280 –> 00:25:15,200
[Paul Tyler]: do you have models sort of best language for introducing an income conversation
726
00:25:15,760 –> 00:25:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: because you know four hundred one thousand okay everybody kinda understands four
727
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:23,600
[Paul Tyler]: on k well how old is paul tyler you know if i’m twenty one
728
00:25:24,960 –> 00:25:29,760
[Paul Tyler]: gee maybe i’m defaulting here but i should sort of hm maybe i take it down maybe
729
00:25:29,620 –> 00:25:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: i’m
730
00:25:31,280 –> 00:25:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: actually in my fifty seconds maybe i should like allocate that initially more i
731
00:25:36,320 –> 00:25:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: mean do you have models that say this is the language it should be there for so
732
00:25:41,120 –> 00:25:44,800
[Paul Tyler]: paul makes the best optimal decision when i set it up
733
00:25:46,564 –> 00:25:47,564
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah it’s a good question
734
00:25:47,324 –> 00:25:48,324
[Tamiko Toland]: and
735
00:25:47,398 –> 00:25:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: like you
736
00:25:47,620 –> 00:25:48,620
[Paul Tyler]: no
737
00:25:48,024 –> 00:25:52,664
[Tamiko Toland]: there aren’t models for it i mean the only model is you know i would say the
738
00:25:52,744 –> 00:25:55,624
[Tamiko Toland]: largest plan out there um if you look
739
00:25:55,300 –> 00:25:56,300
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
740
00:25:55,704 –> 00:25:59,864
[Tamiko Toland]: at rath on’s participant communications they do an excellent job
741
00:25:59,558 –> 00:26:00,558
[Ramsey Smith]: job
742
00:26:00,124 –> 00:26:01,124
[Tamiko Toland]: of
743
00:26:01,158 –> 00:26:02,158
[Ramsey Smith]: showing
744
00:26:01,224 –> 00:26:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: showing different personas of different folks who would want to
745
00:26:03,958 –> 00:26:04,958
[Ramsey Smith]: one
746
00:26:04,424 –> 00:26:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: stay in the plan or in in that uh guaranteed income option or
747
00:26:08,398 –> 00:26:09,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what else
748
00:26:08,684 –> 00:26:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: not right
749
00:26:10,524 –> 00:26:11,524
[Tamiko Toland]: but you know
750
00:26:11,384 –> 00:26:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i think part of the understanding of this is that there are also
751
00:26:11,458 –> 00:26:13,058
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i think more fun
752
00:26:14,100 –> 00:26:15,100
[Paul Tyler]: are
753
00:26:14,664 –> 00:26:18,024
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how how they work and at
754
00:26:14,738 –> 00:26:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: are watching house
755
00:26:17,798 –> 00:26:18,798
[Ramsey Smith]: that
756
00:26:17,804 –> 00:26:18,804
[Tamiko Toland]: what
757
00:26:18,300 –> 00:26:19,300
[Paul Tyler]: what point
758
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really
759
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really
760
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you
761
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you
762
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age
763
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age
764
00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:29,780
[Paul Tyler]: seventies
765
00:26:30,164 –> 00:26:31,164
[Tamiko Toland]: you have
766
00:26:30,620 –> 00:26:31,620
[Paul Tyler]: i like
767
00:26:30,824 –> 00:26:32,344
[Tamiko Toland]: a glide path into income
768
00:26:33,040 –> 00:26:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: it’s just like you have a good life
769
00:26:33,224 –> 00:26:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: just like you would have a a glide path with a regular target day fund and so
770
00:26:37,084 –> 00:26:38,084
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s
771
00:26:37,300 –> 00:26:38,300
[Paul Tyler]: how
772
00:26:37,784 –> 00:26:41,064
[Tamiko Toland]: how a lot of them actually work um so it’s
773
00:26:42,084 –> 00:26:43,084
[Tamiko Toland]: you know when you think about
774
00:26:43,118 –> 00:26:44,118
[Ramsey Smith]: about the
775
00:26:43,224 –> 00:26:46,744
[Tamiko Toland]: the the range of different participants and their ages it
776
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Paul Tyler]: you
777
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty
778
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty
779
00:26:46,898 –> 00:26:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: it maybe holiday
780
00:26:50,504 –> 00:26:51,864
[Tamiko Toland]: because you’re not going to be
781
00:26:52,598 –> 00:26:53,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
782
00:26:52,744 –> 00:26:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: investing in it yet you know you’re not going to be accumulating that future
783
00:26:55,764 –> 00:26:56,764
[Tamiko Toland]: income
784
00:26:57,244 –> 00:26:58,244
[Tamiko Toland]: yet
785
00:26:57,478 –> 00:26:58,478
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
786
00:26:58,264 –> 00:26:59,544
[Tamiko Toland]: knowing that that is something that
787
00:26:59,220 –> 00:27:00,220
[Paul Tyler]: y
788
00:26:59,704 –> 00:27:00,824
[Tamiko Toland]: will happen in the future
789
00:27:00,478 –> 00:27:01,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the future
790
00:27:01,484 –> 00:27:02,484
[Tamiko Toland]: can be quite
791
00:27:01,860 –> 00:27:02,860
[Paul Tyler]: we
792
00:27:02,424 –> 00:27:06,264
[Tamiko Toland]: reassuring to employees and it would be potentially an inducement to
793
00:27:05,860 –> 00:27:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: zero
794
00:27:06,264 –> 00:27:10,184
[Tamiko Toland]: stay at a company if you were considering you know going somewhere else so i
795
00:27:09,980 –> 00:27:10,980
[Paul Tyler]: ninety nine
796
00:27:10,238 –> 00:27:11,238
[Ramsey Smith]: ninety nine by
797
00:27:10,324 –> 00:27:11,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i could see
798
00:27:11,740 –> 00:27:12,740
[Paul Tyler]: i get
799
00:27:12,184 –> 00:27:14,984
[Tamiko Toland]: again this goes more to the participants like
800
00:27:14,580 –> 00:27:15,580
[Paul Tyler]: like
801
00:27:15,144 –> 00:27:21,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the idea of income you know uh mindset as opposed to this is beneficial for the
802
00:27:20,964 –> 00:27:21,964
[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors i
803
00:27:21,460 –> 00:27:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: maybe
804
00:27:22,024 –> 00:27:23,864
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s beneficial for everybody frankly
805
00:27:24,518 –> 00:27:25,518
[Ramsey Smith]: so
806
00:27:25,120 –> 00:27:26,560
[Paul Tyler]: no i wanted to say that before
807
00:27:25,138 –> 00:27:29,298
[Ramsey Smith]: i wanted to pick up on what you were saying about staying in plan
808
00:27:30,338 –> 00:27:34,338
[Ramsey Smith]: and this is something that’s that’s been a particular interest to me and
809
00:27:35,538 –> 00:27:37,778
[Ramsey Smith]: i want to hear what you think about what the potential
810
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with
811
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with
812
00:27:39,060 –> 00:27:40,060
[Paul Tyler]: she
813
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know
814
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know
815
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be
816
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be
817
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might
818
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might
819
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with
820
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with
821
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just
822
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just
823
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like
824
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like
825
00:28:14,738 –> 00:28:18,178
[Ramsey Smith]: why where are we now in a world where maybe they want to keep people in plan for
826
00:28:17,958 –> 00:28:18,958
[Ramsey Smith]: longer
827
00:28:19,404 –> 00:28:20,404
[Tamiko Toland]: well
828
00:28:20,000 –> 00:28:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: what do you breakfast
829
00:28:20,024 –> 00:28:24,664
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they are recognizing the advantages of scale right you keep more folks in
830
00:28:24,744 –> 00:28:28,904
[Tamiko Toland]: your you plan you have larger assets and then you were able to drive down costs i
831
00:28:28,984 –> 00:28:34,424
[Tamiko Toland]: mean that that’s a that’s a pretty basic dynamic from a pricing perspective
832
00:28:36,264 –> 00:28:39,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and like i say there’s blended models and what have you in terms of like what
833
00:28:39,784 –> 00:28:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: happens with the actual income component um
834
00:28:43,704 –> 00:28:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: and i i think there’s there’s always
835
00:28:46,000 –> 00:28:47,840
[Paul Tyler]: we we settled from
836
00:28:46,264 –> 00:28:49,704
[Tamiko Toland]: there are much more subtle conversations and probably differences among different
837
00:28:49,864 –> 00:28:52,504
[Tamiko Toland]: types of sponsors um you
838
00:28:52,124 –> 00:28:53,124
[Tamiko Toland]: know
839
00:28:52,180 –> 00:28:53,180
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
840
00:28:52,278 –> 00:28:53,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so
841
00:28:52,904 –> 00:28:56,984
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the traditional mindset has really been like you know oh this
842
00:28:57,380 –> 00:28:58,380
[Paul Tyler]: it
843
00:28:57,398 –> 00:28:58,398
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
844
00:28:57,624 –> 00:28:58,744
[Tamiko Toland]: participant isn’t
845
00:28:59,300 –> 00:29:00,300
[Paul Tyler]: even a work
846
00:28:59,304 –> 00:29:02,344
[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t a worker here anymore so we just we want
847
00:29:01,940 –> 00:29:02,940
[Paul Tyler]: what
848
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship
849
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship
850
00:29:06,844 –> 00:29:07,844
[Tamiko Toland]: um but
851
00:29:07,220 –> 00:29:08,220
[Paul Tyler]: like
852
00:29:07,718 –> 00:29:08,718
[Ramsey Smith]: but you
853
00:29:07,784 –> 00:29:11,784
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there there are advantages too frankly for the worker
854
00:29:12,664 –> 00:29:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that you know this i because it is a fiduciary relationship
855
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:14,720
[Paul Tyler]: right but you could be
856
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get
857
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get
858
00:29:17,378 –> 00:29:18,738
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah maybe you
859
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so
860
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so
861
00:29:22,898 –> 00:29:26,178
[Ramsey Smith]: so sorry i wanna just just follow up on this paul so
862
00:29:26,838 –> 00:29:27,838
[Ramsey Smith]: so
863
00:29:27,420 –> 00:29:28,420
[Paul Tyler]: what weekend
864
00:29:27,458 –> 00:29:32,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m with you i’m with you and i and i i agree a it’s it’s it’s part and parcel
865
00:29:32,580 –> 00:29:33,580
[Paul Tyler]: what
866
00:29:32,978 –> 00:29:37,218
[Ramsey Smith]: why this is an attractive opportunity for plan sponsors and frankly for asset
867
00:29:37,298 –> 00:29:38,578
[Ramsey Smith]: managers and carriers
868
00:29:39,778 –> 00:29:43,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the one question though was so at that at that point of transition so you are a
869
00:29:43,938 –> 00:29:49,698
[Ramsey Smith]: fiduciary and you now want somebody to stay in plan you know after age sixty five
870
00:29:50,418 –> 00:29:54,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but now this person in theory can go a lot of other places right they can roll
871
00:29:54,498 –> 00:29:56,178
[Ramsey Smith]: over and go to you know any number
872
00:29:57,298 –> 00:30:03,938
[Ramsey Smith]: of sort of established you know asset manager sort of providers or broker broker
873
00:30:04,018 –> 00:30:09,138
[Ramsey Smith]: dealer providers who have these entire suites of services and so in some sense
874
00:30:09,378 –> 00:30:12,898
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re telling the person well you should stay here with what we offer the
875
00:30:13,058 –> 00:30:16,898
[Ramsey Smith]: service offering we have which may or may not be as expansive as all the other
876
00:30:17,058 –> 00:30:22,018
[Ramsey Smith]: things that they might do like is that is there a fiduciary responsibility there
877
00:30:22,258 –> 00:30:27,538
[Ramsey Smith]: that that is that is also quite different literally at the point of at the point
878
00:30:27,698 –> 00:30:31,698
[Ramsey Smith]: of transition and not just not just managing but but basically saying please stay
879
00:30:31,638 –> 00:30:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: as opposed to going
880
00:30:33,644 –> 00:30:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah and i
881
00:30:34,100 –> 00:30:35,100
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know
882
00:30:34,344 –> 00:30:36,344
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know that the rhetoric is you should stay
883
00:30:37,118 –> 00:30:38,118
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah right
884
00:30:37,260 –> 00:30:38,260
[Paul Tyler]: i think they’re
885
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve
886
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve
887
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with
888
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with
889
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the
890
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the
891
00:30:46,504 –> 00:30:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: with some some degree of guidance um or if that’s independent of that um and
892
00:30:51,684 –> 00:30:52,684
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s just information
893
00:30:53,544 –> 00:30:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s conveyed i mean there are a lot of
894
00:30:55,398 –> 00:30:56,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what
895
00:30:55,864 –> 00:30:57,544
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how to do that but i
896
00:30:57,420 –> 00:30:58,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think that
897
00:30:57,704 –> 00:31:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the premise that it’s you should say because we want to keep your assets
898
00:31:02,104 –> 00:31:03,304
[Tamiko Toland]: in plan it is
899
00:31:03,544 –> 00:31:08,824
[Tamiko Toland]: probably not the way that i would think about it and also you know the rollover
900
00:31:03,600 –> 00:31:06,720
[Paul Tyler]: probably no week i about it i it also
901
00:31:09,064 –> 00:31:10,744
[Tamiko Toland]: situation right now is in flux
902
00:31:10,838 –> 00:31:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
903
00:31:11,224 –> 00:31:15,304
[Tamiko Toland]: and so the relative ease with which that can happen is like that
904
00:31:15,378 –> 00:31:17,618
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s i think that’s very important
905
00:31:16,000 –> 00:31:17,760
[Paul Tyler]: i think that that works
906
00:31:16,024 –> 00:31:17,944
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that’s a at question so
907
00:31:18,980 –> 00:31:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: very
908
00:31:19,464 –> 00:31:24,424
[Tamiko Toland]: there is more reason for the sponsors to be offering like good
909
00:31:25,704 –> 00:31:27,384
[Tamiko Toland]: options within their plans
910
00:31:28,164 –> 00:31:29,164
[Tamiko Toland]: right um
911
00:31:29,944 –> 00:31:32,584
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ll we’ll just see we’ll see how things evolve it’s just going to say you
912
00:31:32,664 –> 00:31:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: know adoptions not quick that and that’s reality
913
00:31:35,440 –> 00:31:36,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m trying to think if i
914
00:31:35,698 –> 00:31:40,338
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s just hard to figure out whether whether the new rollover rules create more
915
00:31:40,498 –> 00:31:45,458
[Ramsey Smith]: problems for the people that are trying to be rolled over into right or if they
916
00:31:45,060 –> 00:31:46,060
[Paul Tyler]: so
917
00:31:45,618 –> 00:31:51,298
[Ramsey Smith]: also create similar challenges for for for somebody that says don’t roll out
918
00:31:51,718 –> 00:31:52,718
[Ramsey Smith]: right that’s
919
00:31:53,858 –> 00:31:58,498
[Ramsey Smith]: these are open issues but uh it’s the complexity the complexity is striking to me
920
00:31:58,800 –> 00:32:03,760
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i think for our listeners who are independent agents or advisors
921
00:32:05,200 –> 00:32:10,240
[Paul Tyler]: you know the plus is the employers have started that income conversation
922
00:32:11,078 –> 00:32:12,078
[Ramsey Smith]: so
923
00:32:11,120 –> 00:32:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: temco in a way that they at least start to understand they all understood asset
924
00:32:15,520 –> 00:32:19,840
[Paul Tyler]: allocation now they’re starting to understand income rams you brought up a really
925
00:32:20,000 –> 00:32:24,080
[Paul Tyler]: good question which is wow this would be really difficult to roll over you know
926
00:32:24,160 –> 00:32:25,600
[Paul Tyler]: we already have some some
927
00:32:26,640 –> 00:32:31,520
[Paul Tyler]: you know rules from the dol you know coming in to making it very difficult to do
928
00:32:31,580 –> 00:32:32,580
[Paul Tyler]: this properly but
929
00:32:34,560 –> 00:32:38,080
[Paul Tyler]: now you i’ve got a little bit of tension you know with some of the plan providers
930
00:32:38,800 –> 00:32:39,840
[Paul Tyler]: and where that money’s going
931
00:32:43,804 –> 00:32:44,804
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that would
932
00:32:44,420 –> 00:32:45,420
[Paul Tyler]: we
933
00:32:44,824 –> 00:32:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: be more true if we
934
00:32:45,700 –> 00:32:46,700
[Paul Tyler]: had
935
00:32:46,104 –> 00:32:49,784
[Tamiko Toland]: had current wider adoption of lifetime income within
936
00:32:49,540 –> 00:32:50,540
[Paul Tyler]: like
937
00:32:49,864 –> 00:32:52,184
[Tamiko Toland]: plants and it’s just that it’s it’s not significant
938
00:32:53,224 –> 00:32:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: right we we need to see more of it and
939
00:32:56,364 –> 00:32:57,364
[Tamiko Toland]: it
940
00:32:58,284 –> 00:32:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: the
941
00:32:58,660 –> 00:32:59,660
[Paul Tyler]: like
942
00:32:58,904 –> 00:33:01,624
[Tamiko Toland]: cycle of getting things adopted is very
943
00:33:01,380 –> 00:33:02,380
[Paul Tyler]: very different
944
00:33:01,784 –> 00:33:06,824
[Tamiko Toland]: different from simply selling somebody an annuity in the retail space right so i
945
00:33:07,544 –> 00:33:09,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i don’t see that as being a
946
00:33:10,424 –> 00:33:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: a present issue and we don’t know actually what will ultimately happen as far as
947
00:33:16,184 –> 00:33:21,784
[Tamiko Toland]: rollovers out of plans so i you know we can we can speculate we want about that
948
00:33:21,220 –> 00:33:22,220
[Paul Tyler]: about that
949
00:33:23,040 –> 00:33:24,480
[Paul Tyler]: i never said what
950
00:33:23,064 –> 00:33:26,904
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that a lot of this conversation frankly and i’ve i’ve said this
951
00:33:27,064 –> 00:33:32,664
[Tamiko Toland]: whole time and with uh the lifetime income illustrations that are going to be
952
00:33:32,744 –> 00:33:35,064
[Tamiko Toland]: peering on people’s four o one k statements
953
00:33:35,484 –> 00:33:36,484
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s
954
00:33:35,580 –> 00:33:36,580
[Paul Tyler]: i know
955
00:33:35,878 –> 00:33:36,878
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s all
956
00:33:36,184 –> 00:33:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: all of an opportunity for retail right
957
00:33:38,998 –> 00:33:39,998
[Ramsey Smith]: dr
958
00:33:39,624 –> 00:33:41,224
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know when you see
959
00:33:40,900 –> 00:33:41,900
[Paul Tyler]: see oh
960
00:33:40,924 –> 00:33:41,924
[Tamiko Toland]: oh
961
00:33:41,544 –> 00:33:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i my four o one k could turn into this
962
00:33:41,618 –> 00:33:43,298
[Ramsey Smith]: oh i like he’s good
963
00:33:44,598 –> 00:33:45,598
[Ramsey Smith]: your
964
00:33:44,724 –> 00:33:45,724
[Tamiko Toland]: guaranteed income
965
00:33:46,844 –> 00:33:47,844
[Tamiko Toland]: yet
966
00:33:47,060 –> 00:33:48,060
[Paul Tyler]: they
967
00:33:47,464 –> 00:33:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s literally no way to possibly do that within my existing plan
968
00:33:50,980 –> 00:33:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: break
969
00:33:51,324 –> 00:33:52,324
[Tamiko Toland]: right so when
970
00:33:53,544 –> 00:33:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: when you you you run into this logistical challenge
971
00:33:56,664 –> 00:34:00,584
[Tamiko Toland]: but you start thinking about what to do with your retirement savings in a
972
00:33:56,720 –> 00:33:58,080
[Paul Tyler]: like think about
973
00:34:00,664 –> 00:34:03,064
[Tamiko Toland]: different way you know like i say i think that that is a
974
00:34:02,660 –> 00:34:03,660
[Paul Tyler]: g
975
00:34:03,144 –> 00:34:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: great opportunity in the face of some potential
976
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:07,500
[Paul Tyler]: right
977
00:34:06,984 –> 00:34:12,584
[Tamiko Toland]: compliance challenges right so there’s a lot of forces at play right now for sure
978
00:34:13,440 –> 00:34:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: now there are a
979
00:34:14,118 –> 00:34:15,118
[Ramsey Smith]: are
980
00:34:14,640 –> 00:34:18,720
[Paul Tyler]: large number of big plans like you described like raytheon with
981
00:34:20,140 –> 00:34:21,140
[Paul Tyler]: good hr
982
00:34:20,598 –> 00:34:21,598
[Ramsey Smith]: t
983
00:34:20,900 –> 00:34:21,900
[Paul Tyler]: benefits
984
00:34:22,880 –> 00:34:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: professionals tremendous support from from advisors for the plan but they are
985
00:34:28,480 –> 00:34:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: like a lot more small plants with fewer participants
986
00:34:32,684 –> 00:34:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: just
987
00:34:34,000 –> 00:34:39,120
[Paul Tyler]: tim k do you think the equation or how sponsors are going to think about it will
988
00:34:39,280 –> 00:34:42,560
[Paul Tyler]: change when you start to go down and maybe you only have ten employees maybe have
989
00:34:42,720 –> 00:34:47,680
[Paul Tyler]: fifteen employees um do you think the adoption challenge will be any different or
990
00:34:47,920 –> 00:34:51,760
[Paul Tyler]: will it’ll be just effectively same set of considerations
991
00:34:53,484 –> 00:34:54,484
[Tamiko Toland]: well i think you know
992
00:34:56,344 –> 00:35:00,664
[Tamiko Toland]: really what’s going to happen is we’re going to see an increase in adoption right
993
00:35:00,844 –> 00:35:01,844
[Tamiko Toland]: it it
994
00:35:01,260 –> 00:35:02,260
[Paul Tyler]: eating
995
00:35:01,544 –> 00:35:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is going to happen for sure is it is happening right now but
996
00:35:04,980 –> 00:35:05,980
[Paul Tyler]: what
997
00:35:05,078 –> 00:35:06,078
[Ramsey Smith]: what
998
00:35:05,204 –> 00:35:06,204
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s um
999
00:35:06,100 –> 00:35:07,100
[Paul Tyler]: that
1000
00:35:06,504 –> 00:35:12,344
[Tamiko Toland]: as that picks up i think it will make um make it more of a competitive issue for
1001
00:35:12,044 –> 00:35:13,044
[Tamiko Toland]: than
1002
00:35:12,260 –> 00:35:13,260
[Paul Tyler]: that
1003
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all
1004
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all
1005
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be
1006
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be
1007
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly
1008
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly
1009
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more
1010
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more
1011
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons
1012
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons
1013
00:35:35,064 –> 00:35:38,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ve seen availability for smaller plans but then adoptions low because
1014
00:35:38,364 –> 00:35:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re not necessarily they
1015
00:35:39,398 –> 00:35:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1016
00:35:39,864 –> 00:35:44,664
[Tamiko Toland]: may include it in the plan but it’s not the qa and so like that’s
1017
00:35:44,824 –> 00:35:47,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s like the big shift i think for everyone and and we
1018
00:35:44,898 –> 00:35:46,418
[Ramsey Smith]: like that that’s like the
1019
00:35:44,940 –> 00:35:45,940
[Paul Tyler]: not se
1020
00:35:47,944 –> 00:35:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: whether that’s an appropriate choice for a small sponsor that’s
1021
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:49,280
[Paul Tyler]: it was a hurry
1022
00:35:50,980 –> 00:35:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
1023
00:35:51,144 –> 00:35:52,264
[Tamiko Toland]: a different question i i’m
1024
00:35:52,620 –> 00:35:53,620
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m not think it is
1025
00:35:52,664 –> 00:35:54,184
[Tamiko Toland]: not saying it is or isn’t um
1026
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees
1027
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees
1028
00:35:54,960 –> 00:35:57,360
[Paul Tyler]: oh but i think i think about
1029
00:36:00,024 –> 00:36:01,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re gonna be thinking about their
1030
00:36:00,900 –> 00:36:01,900
[Paul Tyler]: saturday
1031
00:36:01,224 –> 00:36:03,384
[Tamiko Toland]: needs really differently and much more
1032
00:36:05,144 –> 00:36:10,344
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals and you know then let’s think about peps and and what have
1033
00:36:10,044 –> 00:36:11,044
[Tamiko Toland]: you
1034
00:36:10,740 –> 00:36:11,740
[Paul Tyler]: like
1035
00:36:10,804 –> 00:36:11,804
[Tamiko Toland]: but um
1036
00:36:12,404 –> 00:36:13,404
[Tamiko Toland]: you know it
1037
00:36:12,844 –> 00:36:13,844
[Tamiko Toland]: like
1038
00:36:13,060 –> 00:36:14,060
[Paul Tyler]: like
1039
00:36:13,138 –> 00:36:15,058
[Ramsey Smith]: you know it’s like a different type of story
1040
00:36:13,464 –> 00:36:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: i say it’s a different set of considerations in the space
1041
00:36:15,460 –> 00:36:16,460
[Paul Tyler]: see
1042
00:36:16,404 –> 00:36:17,404
[Tamiko Toland]: and that
1043
00:36:16,980 –> 00:36:17,980
[Paul Tyler]: that one
1044
00:36:17,138 –> 00:36:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: and c sp
1045
00:36:17,224 –> 00:36:22,184
[Tamiko Toland]: learning curve which is one of the reasons that you know we really uh wanted to
1046
00:36:21,844 –> 00:36:22,844
[Tamiko Toland]: see the
1047
00:36:22,220 –> 00:36:23,220
[Paul Tyler]: you like
1048
00:36:22,504 –> 00:36:24,024
[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income consortium come
1049
00:36:23,700 –> 00:36:24,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
1050
00:36:24,184 –> 00:36:28,344
[Tamiko Toland]: together because we can get the education out there you know it’s a large group
1051
00:36:28,584 –> 00:36:30,344
[Tamiko Toland]: of very very different solution
1052
00:36:30,744 –> 00:36:32,024
[Tamiko Toland]: providers that are
1053
00:36:31,040 –> 00:36:32,240
[Paul Tyler]: was saturd
1054
00:36:31,638 –> 00:36:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1055
00:36:32,264 –> 00:36:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: you know really deciding that it’s more important for them to work in concert
1056
00:36:38,678 –> 00:36:39,678
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1057
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education
1058
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education
1059
00:36:42,744 –> 00:36:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and to reduce some of the the compliance hurdles
1060
00:36:47,118 –> 00:36:48,118
[Ramsey Smith]: so how
1061
00:36:47,780 –> 00:36:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: how do you think about it
1062
00:36:47,858 –> 00:36:52,658
[Ramsey Smith]: do you think about you know the mandate of of this new organization versus there
1063
00:36:52,738 –> 00:36:56,018
[Ramsey Smith]: are some other educational organizations in the space right
1064
00:36:55,964 –> 00:36:56,964
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
1065
00:36:56,738 –> 00:37:00,338
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s the alliance for lifelong income there’s limma the all friends of the
1066
00:37:00,198 –> 00:37:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: show by the way
1067
00:37:01,644 –> 00:37:02,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah
1068
00:37:03,298 –> 00:37:05,698
[Ramsey Smith]: uh curious how like you view
1069
00:37:06,738 –> 00:37:10,498
[Ramsey Smith]: the mandate of this consortium as being
1070
00:37:10,204 –> 00:37:11,204
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1071
00:37:10,658 –> 00:37:14,898
[Ramsey Smith]: different or what’s the sort of unique element that you guys are focusing on
1072
00:37:16,338 –> 00:37:19,938
[Ramsey Smith]: is it the complete focus on this one particular space is there anything else
1073
00:37:20,098 –> 00:37:21,138
[Ramsey Smith]: about it stylistically
1074
00:37:22,738 –> 00:37:25,378
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s part of your mo that you can share with us
1075
00:37:26,204 –> 00:37:27,204
[Tamiko Toland]: sure
1076
00:37:26,780 –> 00:37:27,780
[Paul Tyler]: sure i mean i think
1077
00:37:26,904 –> 00:37:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i you know i think you
1078
00:37:28,984 –> 00:37:31,544
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re also very friendly with the other
1079
00:37:29,040 –> 00:37:31,920
[Paul Tyler]: we’re also great friends the other one
1080
00:37:31,878 –> 00:37:32,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1081
00:37:31,884 –> 00:37:32,884
[Tamiko Toland]: organizations out there
1082
00:37:33,964 –> 00:37:34,964
[Tamiko Toland]: and
1083
00:37:34,598 –> 00:37:35,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and yeah
1084
00:37:34,604 –> 00:37:35,604
[Tamiko Toland]: yes
1085
00:37:35,140 –> 00:37:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: get married
1086
00:37:35,384 –> 00:37:37,944
[Tamiko Toland]: education is a component of what we’re doing
1087
00:37:39,064 –> 00:37:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: but we’re not an educational organization we’re we’re actually our
1088
00:37:42,460 –> 00:37:43,460
[Paul Tyler]: mm hm
1089
00:37:42,804 –> 00:37:43,804
[Tamiko Toland]: goal is commercial
1090
00:37:44,078 –> 00:37:45,078
[Ramsey Smith]: there we go
1091
00:37:44,504 –> 00:37:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and commercially we want to see
1092
00:37:48,104 –> 00:37:50,504
[Tamiko Toland]: broader adoption of these solutions and
1093
00:37:50,420 –> 00:37:51,420
[Paul Tyler]: so it
1094
00:37:50,664 –> 00:37:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: so it’s a commercial
1095
00:37:52,824 –> 00:37:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: look at the problem not simply throwing out
1096
00:37:54,678 –> 00:37:55,678
[Ramsey Smith]: got
1097
00:37:55,064 –> 00:37:58,184
[Tamiko Toland]: education but education saying okay well what are the challenges how
1098
00:37:58,140 –> 00:37:59,140
[Paul Tyler]: how c
1099
00:37:58,264 –> 00:37:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: can we help close those gaps
1100
00:37:59,844 –> 00:38:00,844
[Tamiko Toland]: and then
1101
00:38:00,320 –> 00:38:02,000
[Paul Tyler]: and then where are their an
1102
00:38:00,398 –> 00:38:01,398
[Ramsey Smith]: and we
1103
00:38:00,584 –> 00:38:05,224
[Tamiko Toland]: you know where are their actual like logistical adoption issues like say with the
1104
00:38:05,304 –> 00:38:08,744
[Tamiko Toland]: record keepers right ’cause the record keepers are the ones that
1105
00:38:08,340 –> 00:38:09,340
[Paul Tyler]: that
1106
00:38:08,978 –> 00:38:10,098
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah like you
1107
00:38:09,224 –> 00:38:11,064
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly are holding the keys on this
1108
00:38:11,380 –> 00:38:12,380
[Paul Tyler]: oh
1109
00:38:11,784 –> 00:38:13,304
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately right
1110
00:38:13,220 –> 00:38:14,220
[Paul Tyler]: and
1111
00:38:13,624 –> 00:38:14,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know they
1112
00:38:14,804 –> 00:38:15,804
[Tamiko Toland]: are they are
1113
00:38:14,880 –> 00:38:16,080
[Paul Tyler]: they they are not
1114
00:38:15,478 –> 00:38:16,478
[Ramsey Smith]: they are
1115
00:38:15,864 –> 00:38:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: not jumping into the pool
1116
00:38:18,924 –> 00:38:19,924
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1117
00:38:19,318 –> 00:38:20,318
[Ramsey Smith]: spray
1118
00:38:19,784 –> 00:38:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: and so you know
1119
00:38:20,660 –> 00:38:21,660
[Paul Tyler]: got
1120
00:38:20,724 –> 00:38:21,724
[Tamiko Toland]: that is
1121
00:38:23,224 –> 00:38:27,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s a concern that we’re all listening to and we just want to make sure that all
1122
00:38:27,384 –> 00:38:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: the dots are lining up
1123
00:38:29,544 –> 00:38:32,104
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this a reality and we want to hear from
1124
00:38:33,304 –> 00:38:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: from the folks that are are really in the front
1125
00:38:35,140 –> 00:38:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: why
1126
00:38:35,544 –> 00:38:36,824
[Tamiko Toland]: lines and
1127
00:38:36,740 –> 00:38:37,740
[Paul Tyler]: you
1128
00:38:36,984 –> 00:38:40,664
[Tamiko Toland]: hearing the objections dealing with those challenges to help
1129
00:38:40,260 –> 00:38:41,260
[Paul Tyler]: help
1130
00:38:40,904 –> 00:38:42,344
[Tamiko Toland]: solve those challenges so
1131
00:38:42,980 –> 00:38:43,980
[Paul Tyler]: where you
1132
00:38:43,064 –> 00:38:46,504
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re just in year one right of the consortium so we’re just
1133
00:38:46,744 –> 00:38:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: establishing really the basics and then that work will continue and one of the
1134
00:38:46,838 –> 00:38:47,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1135
00:38:50,564 –> 00:38:51,564
[Tamiko Toland]: issues too is
1136
00:38:51,078 –> 00:38:52,078
[Ramsey Smith]: two
1137
00:38:51,544 –> 00:38:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: like how do you compare these different solutions and how do you make a selection
1138
00:38:56,584 –> 00:39:00,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and that’s something that that we’re working on from an analytical perspective
1139
00:39:01,064 –> 00:39:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that saying well what kind of quantitative support is there the conclusion
1140
00:39:05,564 –> 00:39:06,564
[Tamiko Toland]: is
1141
00:39:05,804 –> 00:39:06,804
[Tamiko Toland]: never
1142
00:39:05,860 –> 00:39:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: never
1143
00:39:06,278 –> 00:39:07,278
[Ramsey Smith]: never did
1144
00:39:06,664 –> 00:39:07,784
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s one best
1145
00:39:08,684 –> 00:39:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: solution
1146
00:39:09,964 –> 00:39:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: right there
1147
00:39:10,738 –> 00:39:12,498
[Ramsey Smith]: like they need to work different
1148
00:39:10,984 –> 00:39:12,824
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions are to work differently in different
1149
00:39:12,660 –> 00:39:13,660
[Paul Tyler]: we
1150
00:39:12,804 –> 00:39:13,804
[Tamiko Toland]: ways and
1151
00:39:13,598 –> 00:39:14,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and was very
1152
00:39:13,784 –> 00:39:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: what’s very important is for people to have some quantitative basis to say well
1153
00:39:17,398 –> 00:39:18,398
[Ramsey Smith]: people
1154
00:39:17,884 –> 00:39:18,884
[Tamiko Toland]: this is better in this
1155
00:39:18,838 –> 00:39:19,838
[Ramsey Smith]: the car
1156
00:39:18,904 –> 00:39:20,664
[Tamiko Toland]: regard and then but this
1157
00:39:20,744 –> 00:39:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: one’s better in this regard what works best for for our
1158
00:39:20,798 –> 00:39:21,798
[Ramsey Smith]: is instead of
1159
00:39:24,100 –> 00:39:25,100
[Paul Tyler]: r
1160
00:39:24,924 –> 00:39:25,924
[Tamiko Toland]: you know
1161
00:39:25,380 –> 00:39:26,380
[Paul Tyler]: what
1162
00:39:25,704 –> 00:39:27,224
[Tamiko Toland]: worker population and
1163
00:39:27,300 –> 00:39:28,300
[Paul Tyler]: that
1164
00:39:27,544 –> 00:39:30,504
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the kind of decision making that we really want to support a can
1165
00:39:31,280 –> 00:39:35,760
[Paul Tyler]: okay so here here’s literally a million dollar question just set it up i was at
1166
00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:40,400
[Paul Tyler]: an insure tech conference here monday ramsay we actually had former guests there
1167
00:39:40,480 –> 00:39:43,440
[Paul Tyler]: at this event new york so jerry golden was there spent some time with
1168
00:39:43,318 –> 00:39:44,318
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1169
00:39:43,520 –> 00:39:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: jerry our friends remaining best a m s t v was broadcasting there you missed but
1170
00:39:50,240 –> 00:39:54,240
[Paul Tyler]: actually people came up and talked to us better me about our show so we’re uh you
1171
00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: crossing a lot of wires here
1172
00:39:55,478 –> 00:39:56,478
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1173
00:39:56,080 –> 00:40:02,320
[Paul Tyler]: but temco we took out some very prominent vcs for dinner night before and the
1174
00:40:02,400 –> 00:40:06,080
[Paul Tyler]: question i got was yeah i’m reading about this and hearing about this paul but
1175
00:40:06,240 –> 00:40:08,400
[Paul Tyler]: like when you know is this a
1176
00:40:09,260 –> 00:40:10,260
[Paul Tyler]: when is this
1177
00:40:09,638 –> 00:40:10,638
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1178
00:40:10,060 –> 00:40:11,060
[Paul Tyler]: going to be a meaningful market
1179
00:40:10,838 –> 00:40:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: work
1180
00:40:11,280 –> 00:40:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: is it three years five years ten years from now to invest i mean what’s
1181
00:40:15,558 –> 00:40:16,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1182
00:40:16,000 –> 00:40:17,360
[Paul Tyler]: your what’s your
1183
00:40:17,278 –> 00:40:18,278
[Ramsey Smith]: your respect
1184
00:40:17,440 –> 00:40:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: perspective like when will
1185
00:40:20,400 –> 00:40:24,640
[Paul Tyler]: this be a material a business that you know people are going to fund a lot of the
1186
00:40:24,720 –> 00:40:27,280
[Paul Tyler]: businesses that are making big bets in the space
1187
00:40:30,044 –> 00:40:31,044
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1188
00:40:31,944 –> 00:40:33,784
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s a it’s a slow play
1189
00:40:33,478 –> 00:40:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: one
1190
00:40:33,644 –> 00:40:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: still
1191
00:40:34,904 –> 00:40:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: honestly like it’s not like all of a sudden everybody’s gonna start throwing this
1192
00:40:35,218 –> 00:40:36,978
[Ramsey Smith]: ho not like all the
1193
00:40:38,824 –> 00:40:42,584
[Tamiko Toland]: on their plans and my feeling is a and i
1194
00:40:42,404 –> 00:40:43,404
[Tamiko Toland]: think this gets
1195
00:40:42,540 –> 00:40:43,540
[Paul Tyler]: i think it’s
1196
00:40:42,918 –> 00:40:43,918
[Ramsey Smith]: get
1197
00:40:43,224 –> 00:40:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: missed a little bit with like the
1198
00:40:44,918 –> 00:40:45,918
[Ramsey Smith]: like that
1199
00:40:45,464 –> 00:40:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsay’s press release survey right a lot
1200
00:40:47,780 –> 00:40:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: what
1201
00:40:48,264 –> 00:40:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: of the companies that are really engaged now have been engaged for a very long
1202
00:40:51,484 –> 00:40:52,484
[Tamiko Toland]: time
1203
00:40:53,304 –> 00:40:54,344
[Tamiko Toland]: right and
1204
00:40:54,498 –> 00:40:56,258
[Ramsey Smith]: and they feel that
1205
00:40:55,224 –> 00:40:57,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they feel like this is an important opportunity
1206
00:40:58,284 –> 00:40:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1207
00:40:58,998 –> 00:40:59,998
[Ramsey Smith]: um
1208
00:40:59,644 –> 00:41:00,644
[Tamiko Toland]: but
1209
00:40:59,700 –> 00:41:00,700
[Paul Tyler]: like
1210
00:40:59,878 –> 00:41:00,878
[Ramsey Smith]: what
1211
00:41:01,224 –> 00:41:02,584
[Tamiko Toland]: uh you know when
1212
00:41:02,278 –> 00:41:03,278
[Ramsey Smith]: it would
1213
00:41:02,664 –> 00:41:03,944
[Tamiko Toland]: you’ve been doing it for a
1214
00:41:03,860 –> 00:41:04,860
[Paul Tyler]: decade
1215
00:41:04,024 –> 00:41:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: decade or perhaps longer
1216
00:41:06,740 –> 00:41:07,740
[Paul Tyler]: and not quite she
1217
00:41:06,744 –> 00:41:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and not quite nailed it i mean there’s a lot of conviction around the space and
1218
00:41:12,024 –> 00:41:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: being present and planting the flag
1219
00:41:15,224 –> 00:41:16,344
[Tamiko Toland]: where you know i don’t
1220
00:41:16,038 –> 00:41:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t
1221
00:41:16,424 –> 00:41:20,024
[Tamiko Toland]: think the expectation is oh yeah we’re gonna be getting our money back in the
1222
00:41:20,104 –> 00:41:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: next year or two right
1223
00:41:21,140 –> 00:41:22,140
[Paul Tyler]: great
1224
00:41:22,504 –> 00:41:23,544
[Tamiko Toland]: um so
1225
00:41:24,444 –> 00:41:25,444
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s
1226
00:41:26,244 –> 00:41:27,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i think
1227
00:41:26,420 –> 00:41:27,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think it
1228
00:41:26,558 –> 00:41:27,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i think
1229
00:41:26,984 –> 00:41:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: at at a high level firms
1230
00:41:29,620 –> 00:41:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: like
1231
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be
1232
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be
1233
00:41:32,524 –> 00:41:33,524
[Tamiko Toland]: right
1234
00:41:32,758 –> 00:41:33,758
[Ramsey Smith]: right
1235
00:41:32,820 –> 00:41:33,820
[Paul Tyler]: right yeah
1236
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you
1237
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you
1238
00:41:35,884 –> 00:41:36,884
[Tamiko Toland]: if you need to
1239
00:41:37,864 –> 00:41:39,944
[Tamiko Toland]: like replenish the coffers quickly i
1240
00:41:40,020 –> 00:41:41,020
[Paul Tyler]: i think it still
1241
00:41:40,024 –> 00:41:43,944
[Tamiko Toland]: think it’s it’s still going to be tough because it’s still very very difficult to
1242
00:41:44,204 –> 00:41:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: predict
1243
00:41:44,978 –> 00:41:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: predict health it is not a really fast
1244
00:41:44,984 –> 00:41:49,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and history tells us that this is not a really fast moving space right
1245
00:41:49,478 –> 00:41:50,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right
1246
00:41:49,760 –> 00:41:51,440
[Paul Tyler]: crazy i think
1247
00:41:50,204 –> 00:41:51,204
[Tamiko Toland]: um but i i mean i
1248
00:41:50,998 –> 00:41:51,998
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean i think that
1249
00:41:51,144 –> 00:41:53,064
[Tamiko Toland]: think the opportunity is obviously still there
1250
00:41:52,838 –> 00:41:53,838
[Ramsey Smith]: there
1251
00:41:53,464 –> 00:41:55,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’re getting so close like it really
1252
00:41:55,538 –> 00:41:58,738
[Ramsey Smith]: you do like really a once but i’m talking
1253
00:41:55,624 –> 00:41:59,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it feels like we’re really on the cusp but on the cusp of something that’s still
1254
00:41:59,318 –> 00:42:00,318
[Ramsey Smith]: really
1255
00:41:59,464 –> 00:42:02,104
[Tamiko Toland]: relatively slow moving right and
1256
00:42:01,540 –> 00:42:02,540
[Paul Tyler]: right and
1257
00:42:03,144 –> 00:42:06,504
[Tamiko Toland]: you know especially large punches want to see what the other ones are doing like
1258
00:42:06,204 –> 00:42:07,204
[Tamiko Toland]: what
1259
00:42:06,420 –> 00:42:07,420
[Paul Tyler]: what
1260
00:42:06,904 –> 00:42:08,664
[Tamiko Toland]: oh what choices are you making you know how
1261
00:42:08,364 –> 00:42:09,364
[Tamiko Toland]: are you
1262
00:42:08,500 –> 00:42:09,500
[Paul Tyler]: i mean
1263
00:42:08,798 –> 00:42:09,798
[Ramsey Smith]: how are you
1264
00:42:09,064 –> 00:42:13,864
[Tamiko Toland]: implementing this how did that go right and i think that that experience feeds
1265
00:42:14,024 –> 00:42:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: into the willingness of others to jump
1266
00:42:15,638 –> 00:42:16,638
[Ramsey Smith]: ju
1267
00:42:15,924 –> 00:42:16,924
[Tamiko Toland]: into it because it’s not
1268
00:42:16,420 –> 00:42:17,420
[Paul Tyler]: not
1269
00:42:16,824 –> 00:42:17,864
[Tamiko Toland]: simply about saying oh great
1270
00:42:17,678 –> 00:42:18,678
[Ramsey Smith]: hungry
1271
00:42:18,024 –> 00:42:19,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know we’re gonna pick this thing
1272
00:42:21,860 –> 00:42:22,860
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey
1273
00:42:22,438 –> 00:42:23,438
[Ramsey Smith]: all right
1274
00:42:22,800 –> 00:42:27,360
[Paul Tyler]: we’re we’re we’re kind of the top of top of the the hour here i don’t know final
1275
00:42:27,760 –> 00:42:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: thoughts questions here
1276
00:42:28,978 –> 00:42:35,618
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah so much so much to chew on there um i was you know i was really struck by
1277
00:42:35,858 –> 00:42:41,778
[Ramsey Smith]: your comment about sort of the culture here the culture of the target audience
1278
00:42:41,858 –> 00:42:45,058
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you think about the there’s two target audiences right the first one is
1279
00:42:45,618 –> 00:42:47,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the plan sponsors the folks that are holding the
1280
00:42:49,218 –> 00:42:53,938
[Ramsey Smith]: that have the assets then the ultimate target obviously is the end conser but
1281
00:42:55,938 –> 00:43:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you pointed out quite rightly so that you have all the people that are in
1282
00:43:00,338 –> 00:43:01,378
[Ramsey Smith]: decision making position
1283
00:43:02,978 –> 00:43:08,178
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t necessarily have a culture of of talking about income at maybe the the
1284
00:43:08,258 –> 00:43:12,098
[Ramsey Smith]: depth that it needs to be for them to be comfortable to move forward with things
1285
00:43:12,178 –> 00:43:17,378
[Ramsey Smith]: like this so it’ll be it’s just an interesting uh conundrum to figure out how to
1286
00:43:17,538 –> 00:43:21,618
[Ramsey Smith]: how to how to get past that point is it the same people be getting educated is it
1287
00:43:21,698 –> 00:43:23,778
[Ramsey Smith]: new people in those roles i don’t know
1288
00:43:24,818 –> 00:43:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but that that is of the many of the many interesting things you said that’s the
1289
00:43:28,418 –> 00:43:31,778
[Ramsey Smith]: one that sticks with me because i feel like that’s that’s often the hardest thing
1290
00:43:31,598 –> 00:43:32,598
[Ramsey Smith]: to overcome
1291
00:43:34,844 –> 00:43:35,844
[Tamiko Toland]: but it’s
1292
00:43:35,420 –> 00:43:36,420
[Paul Tyler]: i need know
1293
00:43:35,704 –> 00:43:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s an opportunity as well for the intermediaries
1294
00:43:39,398 –> 00:43:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: sure
1295
00:43:40,344 –> 00:43:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and let’s not let that point get lost right um ’cause when you talk to folks
1296
00:43:45,784 –> 00:43:47,464
[Tamiko Toland]: about like target date funds
1297
00:43:48,504 –> 00:43:50,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know people who missed the
1298
00:43:49,940 –> 00:43:50,940
[Paul Tyler]: w
1299
00:43:50,264 –> 00:43:52,104
[Tamiko Toland]: bus really missed the bus on that
1300
00:43:52,764 –> 00:43:53,764
[Tamiko Toland]: so
1301
00:43:53,220 –> 00:43:54,220
[Paul Tyler]: do i think that
1302
00:43:53,384 –> 00:43:57,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that the same the same goes for in common and
1303
00:43:58,904 –> 00:44:00,504
[Tamiko Toland]: even if you have not been
1304
00:44:00,100 –> 00:44:01,100
[Paul Tyler]: sh
1305
00:44:00,484 –> 00:44:01,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a passionate
1306
00:44:01,300 –> 00:44:02,300
[Paul Tyler]: about
1307
00:44:01,384 –> 00:44:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: advocate of of income solutions right
1308
00:44:05,280 –> 00:44:08,640
[Paul Tyler]: right i think the i know i have heard about
1309
00:44:05,784 –> 00:44:08,104
[Tamiko Toland]: i think now is a really good time to learn
1310
00:44:08,118 –> 00:44:09,118
[Ramsey Smith]: learn about
1311
00:44:08,344 –> 00:44:09,944
[Tamiko Toland]: about them and w how does
1312
00:44:09,678 –> 00:44:10,678
[Ramsey Smith]: not good
1313
00:44:09,964 –> 00:44:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: this really apply
1314
00:44:11,564 –> 00:44:12,564
[Tamiko Toland]: to
1315
00:44:12,924 –> 00:44:13,924
[Tamiko Toland]: to the
1316
00:44:13,864 –> 00:44:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: workplace savings right and it is different and there are different ways of
1317
00:44:14,080 –> 00:44:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: what we i didn’t eat
1318
00:44:17,704 –> 00:44:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about it there are different ways of breaking down the client cause the
1319
00:44:21,144 –> 00:44:22,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is this like
1320
00:44:22,580 –> 00:44:23,580
[Paul Tyler]: like
1321
00:44:23,224 –> 00:44:26,104
[Tamiko Toland]: or the end user is the sponsor right but it’s
1322
00:44:25,860 –> 00:44:26,860
[Paul Tyler]: what
1323
00:44:26,104 –> 00:44:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: funny because there’s a parallel between retail and how we think about you who’s
1324
00:44:29,464 –> 00:44:31,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is is the client
1325
00:44:30,678 –> 00:44:31,678
[Ramsey Smith]: like
1326
00:44:31,144 –> 00:44:32,184
[Tamiko Toland]: the persons ends
1327
00:44:31,798 –> 00:44:32,798
[Ramsey Smith]: eight
1328
00:44:32,184 –> 00:44:33,624
[Tamiko Toland]: up with the annuity or is the
1329
00:44:33,478 –> 00:44:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the plane
1330
00:44:33,624 –> 00:44:36,984
[Tamiko Toland]: client actually the financial intermediary who
1331
00:44:36,980 –> 00:44:37,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
1332
00:44:37,144 –> 00:44:38,824
[Tamiko Toland]: ends up making that recommendation and
1333
00:44:38,420 –> 00:44:39,420
[Paul Tyler]: and
1334
00:44:38,984 –> 00:44:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: we know that the industry has always
1335
00:44:40,380 –> 00:44:41,380
[Paul Tyler]: he out
1336
00:44:40,504 –> 00:44:42,904
[Tamiko Toland]: seen it as that financial intermediary right
1337
00:44:43,140 –> 00:44:44,140
[Paul Tyler]: and
1338
00:44:43,544 –> 00:44:45,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and the same kind of goes here but
1339
00:44:45,340 –> 00:44:46,340
[Paul Tyler]: you all
1340
00:44:45,544 –> 00:44:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re also they’re providing advice
1341
00:44:46,780 –> 00:44:47,780
[Paul Tyler]: you like
1342
00:44:47,144 –> 00:44:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and they you know they may be providing other other
1343
00:44:48,820 –> 00:44:49,820
[Paul Tyler]: other
1344
00:44:49,624 –> 00:44:51,144
[Tamiko Toland]: fiduciary services as well
1345
00:44:51,100 –> 00:44:52,100
[Paul Tyler]: well we
1346
00:44:51,784 –> 00:44:53,864
[Tamiko Toland]: where it’s very relevant for them to need to be
1347
00:44:53,940 –> 00:44:54,940
[Paul Tyler]: i
1348
00:44:54,264 –> 00:44:56,264
[Tamiko Toland]: educated to a higher degree you’re
1349
00:44:56,318 –> 00:44:57,318
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re certainly not
1350
00:44:56,344 –> 00:44:57,624
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly not gonna be like
1351
00:44:58,684 –> 00:44:59,684
[Tamiko Toland]: seeing people
1352
00:44:59,444 –> 00:45:00,444
[Tamiko Toland]: change seats in
1353
00:44:59,458 –> 00:45:00,738
[Ramsey Smith]: c g c c
1354
00:45:00,020 –> 00:45:01,020
[Paul Tyler]: oh
1355
00:45:00,424 –> 00:45:01,864
[Tamiko Toland]: h r departments or
1356
00:45:01,958 –> 00:45:02,958
[Ramsey Smith]: k
1357
00:45:02,024 –> 00:45:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: cfos change because of income okay
1358
00:45:04,924 –> 00:45:05,924
[Tamiko Toland]: so we
1359
00:45:05,638 –> 00:45:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yep
1360
00:45:06,024 –> 00:45:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: got to work with what we got here
1361
00:45:07,380 –> 00:45:08,380
[Paul Tyler]: huh
1362
00:45:07,478 –> 00:45:08,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right
1363
00:45:07,484 –> 00:45:08,484
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsey
1364
00:45:11,140 –> 00:45:12,140
[Paul Tyler]: no this
1365
00:45:13,200 –> 00:45:14,320
[Paul Tyler]: this is this is terrific
1366
00:45:16,000 –> 00:45:21,120
[Paul Tyler]: uh i guess for the listeners who are hungry to learn more
1367
00:45:21,238 –> 00:45:22,238
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1368
00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:26,320
[Paul Tyler]: or i want to follow you what’s what’s the best way is it is it linkedin is it
1369
00:45:27,760 –> 00:45:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: your corporate website
1370
00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:31,900
[Paul Tyler]: think he
1371
00:45:30,904 –> 00:45:33,224
[Tamiko Toland]: linkedin is great i mean you know can x is
1372
00:45:32,980 –> 00:45:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: exact
1373
00:45:33,164 –> 00:45:34,164
[Tamiko Toland]: active on linkedin
1374
00:45:33,998 –> 00:45:34,998
[Ramsey Smith]: and i
1375
00:45:34,184 –> 00:45:35,384
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m active on linkedin
1376
00:45:35,644 –> 00:45:36,644
[Tamiko Toland]: we
1377
00:45:35,700 –> 00:45:36,700
[Paul Tyler]: oh
1378
00:45:36,258 –> 00:45:37,858
[Ramsey Smith]: i there all on twitter
1379
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research
1380
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research
1381
00:45:39,280 –> 00:45:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: hear any of the uh oh
1382
00:45:41,564 –> 00:45:42,564
[Tamiko Toland]: and
1383
00:45:42,264 –> 00:45:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: articles commentary and what have you also
1384
00:45:42,398 –> 00:45:43,398
[Ramsey Smith]: article
1385
00:45:44,284 –> 00:45:45,284
[Tamiko Toland]: our
1386
00:45:44,658 –> 00:45:46,338
[Ramsey Smith]: also our web film
1387
00:45:44,660 –> 00:45:45,660
[Paul Tyler]: really
1388
00:45:44,904 –> 00:45:49,464
[Tamiko Toland]: website has a wealth of information under thought leadership as well as if videos
1389
00:45:49,544 –> 00:45:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and all all kinds of stuff
1390
00:45:50,598 –> 00:45:51,598
[Ramsey Smith]: stuff
1391
00:45:50,960 –> 00:45:52,240
[Paul Tyler]: stuff and they
1392
00:45:51,464 –> 00:45:53,784
[Tamiko Toland]: um and there’s there you know there is
1393
00:45:53,540 –> 00:45:54,540
[Paul Tyler]: there’s
1394
00:45:53,558 –> 00:45:54,558
[Ramsey Smith]: here
1395
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just
1396
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just
1397
00:45:56,320 –> 00:46:00,560
[Paul Tyler]: excellent alright let listen thanks so much there there’s a there’s a lot
1398
00:45:57,458 –> 00:46:00,658
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m sure there’s a lot of stuff on lifetime income there not some
1399
00:46:01,284 –> 00:46:02,284
[Tamiko Toland]: what guess
1400
00:46:02,780 –> 00:46:03,780
[Paul Tyler]: there’s a lot and
1401
00:46:03,484 –> 00:46:04,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a wea bit
1402
00:46:03,680 –> 00:46:05,200
[Paul Tyler]: we will put those links we will put
1403
00:46:04,838 –> 00:46:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
1404
00:46:05,280 –> 00:46:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: those links in the show notes if you want to click in and
1405
00:46:08,020 –> 00:46:09,020
[Paul Tyler]: connect
1406
00:46:09,920 –> 00:46:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: or visit the website so taco thanks so much ramsey as usual appreciate all the
1407
00:46:15,060 –> 00:46:16,060
[Paul Tyler]: great
1408
00:46:16,640 –> 00:46:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: questions and thought behind this uh this show um please join us again next week
1409
00:46:21,680 –> 00:46:25,520
[Paul Tyler]: and uh for another very interesting episode of that annuity show
The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.
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