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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

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[paul_tyler]: good to see you here this morning

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ways glad to be here

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[paul_tyler]: uh boy this is you know we’re
end of october right and fourth quarter ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: i will tell you on our company
side it is short stroke time to get

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[paul_tyler]: to the end of the year what
a crazy year it’s been i mean interest

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[paul_tyler]: rates going up like think i guess
you know how many times in history have

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[paul_tyler]: have bonds bonds on and the stock
market falling at the same time this is

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[paul_tyler]: an unusual time

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yes well it highlights uh it highlights
a lot of risks in retirement portfolios that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i think were under appreciated

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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[ramsey_d_smith]: there was always this presumption that

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that that stocks with the risky part
of your portfolio and bonds were

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the

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[matt]: no

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[ramsey_d_smith]: low risk part and in fact you
know we’re suffering on both sides which actually

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[ramsey_d_smith]: makes a great segue in today’s guests
today we’re joined by matt wallnewitts who is

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the president of income america one of
the one of the leading leading institutions in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the space of inplananuities and i will
confess that’s an area of particularly high interest

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[ramsey_d_smith]: for me and my own company so
really excited to hear what what matt has

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[ramsey_d_smith]: to say today think a very very
important development in uh in the retirement industry

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so with that matt tell us tell
us a bit more about yourself and about

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[ramsey_d_smith]: income america in particular

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[matt]: i’d be glad thanks for thanks for
having me today paul and ramsey it’s it’s

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[matt]: always good to get a chance to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: talk with you to you know just
real quick background on me i have been

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[matt]: the president in merica for the past
two years prior to that i was the

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[matt]: president at f i through sixty the
firm that was really leaving the charge on

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[matt]: the tradiciary standard and then prior to
that i had been at morning star for

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[matt]: for quite a long period and so
it’s been an interesting journey and evolution for

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[matt]: me i certainly always have the end
investor at heart and you know i’ve got

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[matt]: a particularly personal story about my dad
who

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: actually went into retirement in the second

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: quarter of two thousand and eight the
last great bull market and so i’d be

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[matt]: glad to share some of that but
i’ve been really excited about income america you

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[matt]: know i think two years ago when
we launched we were really on the cutting

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[matt]: edge of bringing in plan or when
k retirement income solutions to the market and

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[matt]: it’s been really interesting for how the
how the conversations have changed over the past

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[matt]: two years because two years ago there
was a question about whether there was really

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[matt]: even a need for ramsey um you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: know and i think some of that
was just legacy where there had been solutions

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[matt]: that had been introduced

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: ten or twelve years ago

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: to be honest they just hadn’t had
a lot of take up on the participant

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[matt]: side so it’s been really interesting to
see how

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: the conversation has changed you know certainly
like paul talking about the change in the

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[matt]: markets you know that that’s really had
a big impact and for me yesterday i

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[matt]: was in philadelphia and i was happy
to spend some time with a friend who’s

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[matt]: a really good institutional consult and we
were talking about how the markets have held

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[matt]: up to their traditional correlations

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: he

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: said that they’ve actually had more interest
in the alternative space and i said well

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[matt]: even the altar getting killed and he
said yeah but there’s some areas that have

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[matt]: added some values

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: he mentioned a word that i hadn’t
heard in a long time and that was

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[matt]: hedge funds so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: it really is it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: really is hard times right now especially
again for an investor who’s worked their whole

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[matt]: life and really made the sacrifices to
make sure that they can have a comfortable

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[matt]: retirement these challenges just couldn’t be they
couldn’t be any tougher to navigate right now

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so wow so much to unpack there

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[matt]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a quick comment in the last piece
sort of the alt piece so again big

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[ramsey_d_smith]: believer in the role of altsandin retirement
portfolios over time i think that that at

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the same time though als ultimately are
correlated with public markets over the long hall

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[ramsey_d_smith]: right if credit spreads are widening then
credit spreads and private private credit should widen

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and and the like and if there
are there the stock market is doing well

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and that means fewer exit strategies for
for for equity and private equity investment so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not sooner or later that you
know there is there’s going to be a

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[ramsey_d_smith]: correlation there but i wanted to want
to back up and go back to the

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[ramsey_d_smith]: personal story you cited

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[matt]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and like it’s really like if you
think about it like all of us there’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: some usually some personal catalog that you
know ultimately translates into right shaping an entire

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[ramsey_d_smith]: career and it sounds like you have
one of these please share more about that

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[matt]: i do you know my dad was
somebody who who really worked hard his whole

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[matt]: life i mean you know always made
always made sure that me and my three

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[matt]: younger sisters had enough but he worked
hard and he never really had the benefit

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[matt]: of a pension so him and my
mom you know were really diligent savers and

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[matt]: i’ll never forget as he

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: began to think about retiring asked me
to go and sit with his financial advisor

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[matt]: and we went into the financial advisor
just asked a really simple question i said

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[matt]: hey jim what is your philosophy about
asset allocation as my dad goes into retirement

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[matt]: and i’ll never forget this for the
rest of my life i asked him that

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[matt]: question literally sweat started popping up on
his forehead he looked at me and he

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[matt]: said i’ll be right back he got
up and left the room and my dad

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[matt]: stuck his hand on my lap and
he said mack i settled down he said

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[matt]: you know this is jim we’ve been

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: friends for a long time and i
said i asked him a lay up question

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: right and he

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: came back and he ultimately stuck on
the desk a book that was about two

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[matt]: hundred pages long and it was his
firm view and asked application and i said

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[matt]: no jim tell me about ascidalication for
my dad so as we were leaving i

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[matt]: said to my dad i said hey
dad listen we’ve got to find a new

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[matt]: financial adviser and he said oh man
but he’s grady takes me out to play

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[matt]: golf and gives me golf balls and
i said

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: exactly that and so you know when
my

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: father did finally make the decision to
retire was a second quarter of two thousand

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[matt]: and eight we were in one of
the biggest bull markets in history and he

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[matt]: couldn’t have been any more excited

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: when he i retire and as that
year began to progress as we all remember

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[matt]: through the summer it started to get
a little bit worse and then once the

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[matt]: fall hit it really started to fall
he would literally call me at the end

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[matt]: of the close of market every single
day

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: which is two o’clock in chicago screaming
at me telling me that he was getting

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[matt]: me out of the market and you
know a short story is luckily i convinced

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[matt]: him the park enough money on the
side for a year so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: that they had cash to meet their
minimum obligations but the worst

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: they ever i think it was

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: march ninth of two thousand and nine
um you know that was i believe that

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[matt]: that was the very bottom the market
cycle two o’clock in one second with the

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[matt]: headline news that financial news blaring in
the background i get a call from my

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[matt]: dad saying i’m selling everything i said

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: dad don’t

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: you

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: you will you will never be able
to make up from that and luckily i

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[matt]: was able to state to keep him
convinced stay fully invested and i can only

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[matt]: imagine what would have happened had they
sold out when the market was down fifty

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[matt]: six percent we all know the you
know the catastrophe that’s associated with that so

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[matt]: for me ramsey i have always been
cast on the end investor having my dad

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[matt]: go through a situation like that had
he not had some guidance i am really

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[matt]: convinced that he would have sold out
at the very bottom

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[paul_tyler]: well is

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: interesting you know there’s a lot there
matt so one first you are every vyse’s

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[paul_tyler]: worst nightmare you were the kid

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[matt]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: who disrupted the relationship but for a
good reason i think the other part is

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[paul_tyler]: what what is the role of should
an advisor really be should it be somebody

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[paul_tyler]: who’s picking stocks or should it be
somebody who is helping manage behavior and it

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[paul_tyler]: sounds like that’s what you did with
your dad

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[matt]: you know that’s a great question paul
because

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: you know if we if we just
look at things statistically and analytically

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: most of the active managers can’t beat
the bench back if they can beat their

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[matt]: bench mark in a single year they
certainly can’t do it over a five or

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[matt]: ten year period so it’s interesting when
i look at my career and the way

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[matt]: that the financial advice side of the
business is really more you see more and

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[matt]: more advisors either using models or some
type tamp solution and i really do think

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[matt]: and ramsey we were talking earlier about
my buddy david bland chat you know he

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[matt]: talks a lot about the advisor alpha
that they added really is on the behavioral

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[matt]: finance side i mean even if we
just on a really recent basis even if

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[matt]: we look at the down turn that
happened at the beginning of covid the first

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[matt]: quarter of two thousand one even in
the target date market and you can say

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[matt]: whatever everybody has their own opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: on that too paul but even in
the target date market the number of people

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[matt]: that sold out in march of twenty
twenty it was pretty scary and so this

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[matt]: idea that a financial advisor is um
you know i like what joe durant calls

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[matt]: it like a life coach right somebody
who can really help on a behavior in

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[matt]: an side there’s no doubt that that
that investors especially those that are close to

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[matt]: retirement they

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: really do need that help and guidance

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so in the hierarchy like the behavioal
piece is probably the most important one so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: agree with you there the investment advice
is of some value but it is actually

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[ramsey_d_smith]: something that’s readily vailable and commoditized if
done right using

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[matt]: great

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00:10:02,439 –> 00:10:08,569
[ramsey_d_smith]: industries and the last pieces you know
playing golf and getting free fall which which

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[ramsey_d_smith]: it seems like your dad’s advisor was

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[matt]: a

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[ramsey_d_smith]: over index to that and probably

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[matt]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: earning hundred basis

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: points a year for that and that’s
you

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[matt]: more

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[ramsey_d_smith]: know

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: or more or more god forbid right
and that is that is that is precisely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the problem there so all right so

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[matt]: hey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: here

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[matt]: ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: one other thing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: i just have to mention to because
when i just think about you know my

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[matt]: dad’s journey you know the other thing
that you have to remember it was just

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[matt]: him and i that met

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:10:31,861 –> 00:10:37,543
[matt]: with the financial adviser and my father
ultimately passed away before my mother and

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00:10:37,428 –> 00:10:37,855
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: i can tell you that my mother
had no

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: relationship at all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: with that advisor

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: and again as i just think about
you know couples i don’t know what the

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[matt]: stats are exactly but i think that
a high number widows end up changing advisors

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[matt]: and practices simply because they don’t have
any relationship with the advisor and that’s that’s

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[matt]: too bad for everybody but i think
that it really is an unfortunate fact that

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[matt]: happens a lot

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[paul_tyler]: well ramsey’s going to go ramsey’s got
some good topics here to go into but

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[paul_tyler]: just to stick on this because i
think the topic were we’re discussing is so

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[paul_tyler]: relevant for advisors you know right now
at you talk the other aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you just mentioned was

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: frequency so the markets going down you’re
having daily conversations with you your dad i

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[paul_tyler]: got this question ramsey from a journalist

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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00:11:30,080 –> 00:11:37,576
[paul_tyler]: yesterday how frequently should people m revise
or take a look at their retirement plan

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[paul_tyler]: and i was kind of stuck man
on that one which was well probably you

241
00:11:41,164 –> 00:11:46,038
[paul_tyler]: know at least once a year but
you know was that check in really what

242
00:11:46,078 –> 00:11:51,073
[paul_tyler]: you just described was that almost like
a daily re affirmation that the plan is

243
00:11:51,113 –> 00:11:56,602
[paul_tyler]: still working it sounds like you made
some changes reposition cash you know for your

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00:11:56,662 –> 00:12:01,490
[paul_tyler]: dad you know if we fast forward
to this environment how frequently should pe be

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[paul_tyler]: looking at their at their retirement plans
you know if you were answering that question

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00:12:05,403 –> 00:12:12,775
[matt]: yeah that’s that’s a great question because
when my family calls me with questions i

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00:12:12,840 –> 00:12:14,160
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:12:12,855 –> 00:12:14,478
[matt]: tell them just to throw away their
statements

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00:12:14,640 –> 00:12:15,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: honestly

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00:12:15,780 –> 00:12:16,123
[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: because you know listen it’s not like
you’re looking to retire today you’ve got at

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[matt]: least ten years and so the chances
of the market having a full recovery that

254
00:12:26,643 –> 00:12:31,293
[matt]: time are pretty great but you know
paul it is interesting because you know my

255
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[matt]: advisor personally will contact me at least
one supporter to meet with me and she’s

256
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[matt]: very very good about sending out kind
of updates when there’s big swings in the

257
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[matt]: market even though it’s via email i
don’t mind consuming content that way

258
00:12:45,878 –> 00:12:46,285
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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00:12:46,481 –> 00:12:49,526
[matt]: in fact i’m a lot more likely
to read that that i am to take

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[matt]: a phone call so i don’t think
it’s i don’t think it’s certainly not an

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[matt]: every week thing but in these turbulent
markets i don’t think that there’s any problem

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00:12:58,942 –> 00:13:02,969
[matt]: touched in base with a client once
a month just to see how they’re doing

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[matt]: and to make sure again i think
you hit on the real thing to make

264
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[matt]: sure that they’re still committed to their
plan and nothing has changed in their life

265
00:13:10,144 –> 00:13:15,194
[matt]: that may be too much especially from
a retirement plan but i would certainly think

266
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[matt]: on the private wealth side you know
that would be pretty appropriate

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[paul_tyler]: m s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: m done

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[ramsey_d_smith]: all right well that’s a look that’s
that’s an important conversation

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[paul_tyler]: eh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so all right so here we are
in here we are in two thousand twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: two and well we haven’t had sort
of a sudden severity that we saw in

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00:13:37,664 –> 00:13:41,310
[ramsey_d_smith]: in two thousand eight or we have
different reasons i should say for now for

275
00:13:41,350 –> 00:13:45,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: the market suffering we’re still in the
situation where you know again stocks are down

276
00:13:45,517 –> 00:13:52,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot bonds are also down so
all much of the same pain that somebody

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00:13:52,186 –> 00:13:56,553
[ramsey_d_smith]: retiring in two thousand eight would have
had people that are retiring in two thousand

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00:13:56,593 –> 00:13:57,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: twenty two are having

279
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[matt]: oh

280
00:13:58,056 –> 00:14:00,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: right now and so you know what
are some

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00:14:00,302 –> 00:14:00,363
[matt]: ah

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00:14:00,360 –> 00:14:05,869
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the lessons we can learn from
that and how you know how how does

283
00:14:06,189 –> 00:14:10,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: inplantanuity that does the inplantanuity opportunity play
into that sort of i would say going

284
00:14:10,997 –> 00:14:13,141
[ramsey_d_smith]: forward so you know if people had

285
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[matt]: oh

286
00:14:13,261 –> 00:14:14,904
[ramsey_d_smith]: bought into inplantanuities twenty years

287
00:14:14,801 –> 00:14:14,943
[matt]: yeah

288
00:14:14,944 –> 00:14:16,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: ago would they be now versus

289
00:14:16,233 –> 00:14:16,474
[matt]: yeah

290
00:14:16,754 –> 00:14:17,398
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know where they are

291
00:14:19,103 –> 00:14:20,364
[matt]: it’s a really fair question mamsey

292
00:14:20,275 –> 00:14:20,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

293
00:14:20,424 –> 00:14:23,889
[matt]: i mean i think you know and
again conversation i was having yesterday with the

294
00:14:23,929 –> 00:14:29,366
[matt]: institutional consultant is how the sixty forty
portfolio and these market conditions it hasn’t held

295
00:14:29,466 –> 00:14:31,730
[matt]: up and i haven’t taken a look
at

296
00:14:31,765 –> 00:14:31,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

297
00:14:31,770 –> 00:14:34,835
[matt]: the numbers to see how that worked
back in two thousand and eight

298
00:14:35,254 –> 00:14:35,275
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

299
00:14:35,596 –> 00:14:43,085
[matt]: but you know certainly with a retirement
account again on the behavioral finance side knowing

300
00:14:43,146 –> 00:14:50,048
[matt]: that a participant has enough income to
at least make their basic needs irrespective of

301
00:14:50,108 –> 00:14:56,629
[matt]: market performance on the behavior finance side
that’s just something that it’s really important and

302
00:14:56,690 –> 00:15:01,924
[matt]: it’s interesting because not only is it
important to that end participant you know right

303
00:15:02,004 –> 00:15:07,092
[matt]: now in this war for talent amongst
companies it’s crazy how the market is performed

304
00:15:07,112 –> 00:15:10,057
[matt]: and you have the job market has
really head up and held up

305
00:15:10,076 –> 00:15:10,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

306
00:15:10,137 –> 00:15:11,339
[matt]: and so you know the

307
00:15:11,381 –> 00:15:11,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

308
00:15:11,420 –> 00:15:17,309
[matt]: idea of the great resignation or the
quitting all these professionals are looking for benefits

309
00:15:17,410 –> 00:15:18,091
[matt]: that are unique

310
00:15:18,420 –> 00:15:19,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

311
00:15:19,273 –> 00:15:25,443
[matt]: to hold and retain employees and so
certainly the you know the benefits like the

312
00:15:25,503 –> 00:15:31,433
[matt]: four one plan those are definitely benefits
that need to be competitive and having some

313
00:15:31,473 –> 00:15:37,099
[matt]: retirement income in there certainly is different
than some of the other some of the

314
00:15:37,159 –> 00:15:43,688
[matt]: other areas and it may be more
important now for those that are um you

315
00:15:43,728 –> 00:15:45,110
[matt]: know near retirement but also

316
00:15:45,625 –> 00:15:45,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

317
00:15:45,832 –> 00:15:49,539
[matt]: any of the young people that are
going to live through this market cycle i

318
00:15:49,659 –> 00:15:54,027
[matt]: have to believe that yes they like
bit coin and all these other things but

319
00:15:54,068 –> 00:15:54,308
[matt]: i have

320
00:15:54,295 –> 00:15:54,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

321
00:15:54,348 –> 00:15:57,876
[matt]: to believe that at least in the
short term they’re going to be pretty adverse

322
00:15:58,016 –> 00:16:00,661
[matt]: to to take in on these risky
bets

323
00:16:02,316 –> 00:16:06,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: so part of what were you know
what we’re sort of dealing with here is

324
00:16:06,563 –> 00:16:10,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of a a culture a culture
that’s focused on stocks and bonds target date

325
00:16:11,031 –> 00:16:17,559
[ramsey_d_smith]: funds et cetera and so ah coming
from that to to a market that is

326
00:16:17,839 –> 00:16:23,709
[ramsey_d_smith]: where there is a greater penetration presence
of inplanetannuities what do you think it takes

327
00:16:23,769 –> 00:16:26,634
[ramsey_d_smith]: to get there like who are the
people that need to be brought over the

328
00:16:26,674 –> 00:16:29,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: line who are the stake holders like
so there’s plan sponsors their

329
00:16:30,113 –> 00:16:30,873
[matt]: yeah

330
00:16:30,407 –> 00:16:31,251
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan participants

331
00:16:31,593 –> 00:16:32,343
[matt]: oh

332
00:16:32,305 –> 00:16:35,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: what do we need to do bring
them over the line and and and are

333
00:16:35,116 –> 00:16:36,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: we seeing movement there in your view

334
00:16:37,733 –> 00:16:39,178
[matt]: so so to answer your question about

335
00:16:39,130 –> 00:16:39,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

336
00:16:39,258 –> 00:16:45,175
[matt]: movement yes and i would say that
it’s accelerated greatly in the past six months

337
00:16:45,356 –> 00:16:45,556
[matt]: look

338
00:16:45,427 –> 00:16:45,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

339
00:16:46,238 –> 00:16:46,679
[matt]: the market

340
00:16:46,675 –> 00:16:47,039
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:16:46,759 –> 00:16:52,063
[matt]: certainly helps annuities right i mean all
the stas that i’ve seen say that now

342
00:16:52,263 –> 00:16:58,133
[matt]: all the all the annuities are you
know setting records for for quarterly sales so

343
00:16:58,193 –> 00:17:02,340
[matt]: we know that market volatility definitely drives
interest in that but you know on the

344
00:17:02,420 –> 00:17:05,994
[matt]: in plan side i think that we
really have to look back to the scare

345
00:17:06,074 –> 00:17:11,102
[matt]: act when that passed unfortunately that happened
just before the covid crisis came through and

346
00:17:11,202 –> 00:17:15,333
[matt]: so one of the challenges for the
plan sponsors in the past had been now

347
00:17:15,535 –> 00:17:18,370
[matt]: if something happens with the insurance company
and they fail

348
00:17:18,655 –> 00:17:19,023
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

349
00:17:18,953 –> 00:17:20,657
[matt]: who is on the hook for the
obligation

350
00:17:21,055 –> 00:17:21,301
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

351
00:17:21,179 –> 00:17:27,193
[matt]: for all of these participant benefits that
the participants have been paying for everybody can

352
00:17:27,274 –> 00:17:31,018
[matt]: tell me you know insurance companies never
fail and again all we have to do

353
00:17:31,078 –> 00:17:34,824
[matt]: is look back to two thousand and
think about a i g and without a

354
00:17:34,884 –> 00:17:37,669
[matt]: government bail out there would have been
a lot of trouble and pain there so

355
00:17:38,190 –> 00:17:42,056
[matt]: the kerak provided a safe harbor for
the plan sponsor so that as long as

356
00:17:42,097 –> 00:17:44,882
[matt]: they went through due diligence process

357
00:17:45,145 –> 00:17:46,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

358
00:17:46,013 –> 00:17:47,134
[matt]: they could have a safe harbor

359
00:17:47,095 –> 00:17:47,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:17:47,214 –> 00:17:51,820
[matt]: there and so you know that was
certainly one thing ramsey but again i think

361
00:17:51,860 –> 00:17:57,838
[matt]: that in a raging bull market it’s
hard to have that conversation with participant about

362
00:17:57,858 –> 00:18:00,843
[matt]: the benefit of a guaranteed income because
they think the market is going to go

363
00:18:00,943 –> 00:18:08,924
[matt]: up like that forever so some market
volatility has definitely brought it back or the

364
00:18:08,984 –> 00:18:14,985
[matt]: participants but the other thing is the
retirement plan adviser and the consultants that community

365
00:18:15,225 –> 00:18:20,233
[matt]: definitely has more interest in the in
plan solutions really for two reasons

366
00:18:20,758 –> 00:18:21,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

367
00:18:20,895 –> 00:18:27,433
[matt]: one if the participant rolls out of
the plan than those professions s have um

368
00:18:27,874 –> 00:18:31,420
[matt]: you know little impact there isn’t much
that they can do to make a difference

369
00:18:31,480 –> 00:18:32,441
[matt]: for those participants

370
00:18:32,725 –> 00:18:32,745
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

371
00:18:32,922 –> 00:18:37,550
[matt]: and so it’s interesting that sponsors now
in the past i would say they might

372
00:18:37,610 –> 00:18:42,387
[matt]: be indifferent to maybe hope in a
participant left the plan i feel like now

373
00:18:42,528 –> 00:18:46,816
[matt]: that’s changed and you know typically the
people that are leaving the plan have the

374
00:18:46,836 –> 00:18:48,058
[matt]: higher balances and so

375
00:18:48,123 –> 00:18:48,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

376
00:18:48,138 –> 00:18:49,802
[matt]: it’s to the plan sponsors benefit

377
00:18:50,146 –> 00:18:50,328
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

378
00:18:50,453 –> 00:18:55,555
[matt]: those higher balances stay in plan because
then they get some leverage over the providers

379
00:18:56,096 –> 00:19:01,224
[matt]: so it’s been real interesting that the
institutional community has begun to warm up to

380
00:19:01,304 –> 00:19:02,366
[matt]: and embrace this idea

381
00:19:02,575 –> 00:19:03,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

382
00:19:02,827 –> 00:19:07,194
[matt]: the other thing is those consultants are
always looking for a reason to have a

383
00:19:07,234 –> 00:19:08,877
[matt]: conversation with a new prospect

384
00:19:09,425 –> 00:19:09,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

385
00:19:09,919 –> 00:19:15,609
[matt]: on the plan sponsor side and so
the guaranteed income in plan is definitely something

386
00:19:15,649 –> 00:19:17,933
[matt]: that they can take out the prospects
and

387
00:19:17,959 –> 00:19:18,445
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

388
00:19:17,973 –> 00:19:22,317
[matt]: if the existing consulting her advisors and
talking to him about it it’s a great

389
00:19:22,417 –> 00:19:28,022
[matt]: way to gain some leverage and some
trust and some credibility from the plan sponsor

390
00:19:29,296 –> 00:19:32,882
[ramsey_d_smith]: so you you you introduced a third
sort of stake holder that i

391
00:19:33,074 –> 00:19:33,135
[matt]: ah

392
00:19:33,142 –> 00:19:33,643
[ramsey_d_smith]: that i missed

393
00:19:33,570 –> 00:19:33,810
[paul_tyler]: yeah

394
00:19:33,683 –> 00:19:36,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: which was the retirement plan advisor right
so you’ve got the plan

395
00:19:36,293 –> 00:19:37,113
[matt]: yeah

396
00:19:36,528 –> 00:19:42,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: sponsors you got the plan participants but
retire plan advisor is particularly in the small

397
00:19:43,179 –> 00:19:50,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: medium business segment are super super important
and so i know you know you are

398
00:19:50,451 –> 00:19:56,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the road at conferences talking
you talking to this this segment very very

399
00:19:56,366 –> 00:20:03,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: very frequently is it you seeing traction
are you seeing movement do they under how

400
00:20:03,641 –> 00:20:07,808
[ramsey_d_smith]: much is it do they understand the
value proposition how much do yu have to

401
00:20:07,868 –> 00:20:10,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: explain it like i guess i’m trying
to get sense for how receptive are they

402
00:20:11,053 –> 00:20:15,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: maybe they’re getting there they’re being nudged
or are they receptive so far

403
00:20:16,564 –> 00:20:18,450
[matt]: it’s it’s really changed a lot i
would

404
00:20:18,385 –> 00:20:19,105
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

405
00:20:18,510 –> 00:20:21,439
[matt]: say over the course of this year
i was telling paul early i’ve done over

406
00:20:21,540 –> 00:20:23,395
[matt]: forty speaking events

407
00:20:23,275 –> 00:20:23,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

408
00:20:23,435 –> 00:20:28,109
[matt]: this year so i dedicated myself to
just being out on the road and providing

409
00:20:28,169 –> 00:20:28,731
[matt]: education

410
00:20:28,385 –> 00:20:28,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

411
00:20:29,293 –> 00:20:30,114
[matt]: and i would say that

412
00:20:30,445 –> 00:20:30,752
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:20:31,276 –> 00:20:36,164
[matt]: that again through the year and again
i mean there’s definitely correlation to the market

414
00:20:36,264 –> 00:20:36,465
[matt]: right

415
00:20:36,887 –> 00:20:37,048
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

416
00:20:36,925 –> 00:20:43,805
[matt]: and so there has been more and
more interest but i still when i talked

417
00:20:43,845 –> 00:20:47,092
[matt]: to my friends that are advisors and
i mentioned in plan

418
00:20:47,245 –> 00:20:47,995
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

419
00:20:47,533 –> 00:20:49,938
[matt]: or i mentioned guaranteed income right the
first thing that

420
00:20:49,975 –> 00:20:51,055
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

421
00:20:49,978 –> 00:20:51,521
[matt]: they say is oh that’s an annuity

422
00:20:51,917 –> 00:20:51,957
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

423
00:20:52,283 –> 00:20:53,008
[matt]: i’m like yes

424
00:20:53,095 –> 00:20:53,875
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

425
00:20:54,093 –> 00:20:57,379
[matt]: that’s the only way that you’re going
to get any guaranteed income right is with

426
00:20:57,248 –> 00:20:57,775
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

427
00:20:57,459 –> 00:21:01,906
[matt]: an annuity and they say oh you
know those those don’t work no good they’re

428
00:21:01,946 –> 00:21:05,733
[matt]: too expensive and so i just feel
ramsey that you know again in the educate

429
00:21:05,853 –> 00:21:09,344
[matt]: and there’s one thing in talking about
it a plan

430
00:21:09,629 –> 00:21:09,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

431
00:21:09,825 –> 00:21:14,474
[matt]: there’s another idea of just talking about
the benefits of it because everybody’s got a

432
00:21:14,514 –> 00:21:19,983
[matt]: bad experience with a retail annuity either
personally or with a client and so talking

433
00:21:20,043 –> 00:21:23,549
[matt]: them through the nuances and the difference
and really the benefits

434
00:21:23,160 –> 00:21:23,790
[paul_tyler]: yeah

435
00:21:23,629 –> 00:21:28,661
[matt]: of an institutional offering it’s pretty interesting
where that conversation ends up at the end

436
00:21:29,140 –> 00:21:29,221
[paul_tyler]: so

437
00:21:29,185 –> 00:21:30,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

438
00:21:29,361 –> 00:21:33,107
[paul_tyler]: for ams and i we’re gon t
trade mark this thing before it goes out

439
00:21:33,888 –> 00:21:37,815
[paul_tyler]: if we were to form the national
association of in plan annuities

440
00:21:37,735 –> 00:21:37,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

441
00:21:38,997 –> 00:21:41,521
[paul_tyler]: and start a lobby uh

442
00:21:41,365 –> 00:21:41,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

443
00:21:41,741 –> 00:21:42,643
[paul_tyler]: different individuals

444
00:21:42,805 –> 00:21:43,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

445
00:21:43,665 –> 00:21:48,713
[paul_tyler]: would you tell us to focus first
on trying to almost get annuities in plan

446
00:21:48,773 –> 00:21:49,895
[paul_tyler]: annuities set as a default

447
00:21:50,043 –> 00:21:50,369
[matt]: oh

448
00:21:50,055 –> 00:21:54,225
[paul_tyler]: option like ex percent of your plan
for employes should default into that would that

449
00:21:54,286 –> 00:21:56,152
[paul_tyler]: be our number one objective to really

450
00:21:56,725 –> 00:21:56,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

451
00:21:56,875 –> 00:21:59,413
[paul_tyler]: you now drive activity in the marketplace

452
00:22:01,513 –> 00:22:03,695
[matt]: i think it’s a great question i
think there’s

453
00:22:03,745 –> 00:22:03,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

454
00:22:03,855 –> 00:22:07,439
[matt]: one a and one b i think
that one a is the idea that in

455
00:22:07,539 –> 00:22:13,812
[matt]: plan annuities can be a q d
a and then one b would be at

456
00:22:13,972 –> 00:22:19,554
[matt]: what age is it appropriate to put
somebody in as a q d is it

457
00:22:19,634 –> 00:22:24,475
[matt]: really appropriate for twenty two year old
should it be for a fifty five year

458
00:22:24,515 –> 00:22:29,399
[matt]: old um or is it somewhere in
between i think that those are i think

459
00:22:29,439 –> 00:22:34,938
[matt]: that those are two of the really
key topics um and again especially in the

460
00:22:34,958 –> 00:22:39,750
[matt]: institutional consultant community there’s a lot of
questions there over those two topics

461
00:22:40,385 –> 00:22:44,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’m glad you answered that question
mat because you did it was way more

462
00:22:44,291 –> 00:22:47,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: nuance than what my answer was going
to be which

463
00:22:47,423 –> 00:22:47,503
[matt]: what

464
00:22:47,456 –> 00:22:47,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is

465
00:22:47,543 –> 00:22:48,625
[matt]: was yours gonna be ramsey

466
00:22:48,318 –> 00:22:49,279
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes yes

467
00:22:49,371 –> 00:22:49,712
[paul_tyler]: yes

468
00:22:50,582 –> 00:22:56,371
[ramsey_d_smith]: your answer is yes yes we should
lobby to lobby to make them the qualified

469
00:22:56,411 –> 00:23:00,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: default investment alternative as often as possible
into the broadest possible audience

470
00:23:00,911 –> 00:23:01,135
[paul_tyler]: okay

471
00:23:00,919 –> 00:23:04,365
[ramsey_d_smith]: um and ye so well said matt
m

472
00:23:04,773 –> 00:23:05,943
[matt]: yeh

473
00:23:05,283 –> 00:23:06,565
[paul_tyler]: okay the other question which which

474
00:23:06,513 –> 00:23:06,614
[matt]: what

475
00:23:06,805 –> 00:23:07,566
[paul_tyler]: which raises this

476
00:23:07,705 –> 00:23:09,025
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

477
00:23:07,727 –> 00:23:13,556
[paul_tyler]: educational question base man i get all
the questions like no surprise you know you’re

478
00:23:13,637 –> 00:23:16,181
[paul_tyler]: answering these all day long which is
these annuities

479
00:23:15,993 –> 00:23:16,216
[matt]: oh

480
00:23:16,221 –> 00:23:17,763
[paul_tyler]: the hint the fees

481
00:23:17,785 –> 00:23:18,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

482
00:23:17,824 –> 00:23:20,187
[paul_tyler]: are high the r is low and
i tell him no

483
00:23:20,073 –> 00:23:20,295
[matt]: oh

484
00:23:20,468 –> 00:23:22,992
[paul_tyler]: it’s it’s not an investment an insurance

485
00:23:22,594 –> 00:23:22,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

486
00:23:24,094 –> 00:23:24,274
[paul_tyler]: and

487
00:23:24,445 –> 00:23:25,255
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

488
00:23:24,614 –> 00:23:25,419
[matt]: right that’s right

489
00:23:25,436 –> 00:23:28,481
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s your in the house
now when you when i think of the

490
00:23:28,561 –> 00:23:31,927
[paul_tyler]: process at the employe level and i’m
going through

491
00:23:31,773 –> 00:23:32,096
[matt]: oh

492
00:23:31,967 –> 00:23:37,036
[paul_tyler]: making my choice you know all those
forms are kind of getting my head lined

493
00:23:37,076 –> 00:23:39,339
[paul_tyler]: around an investment oriented process

494
00:23:40,493 –> 00:23:40,574
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

495
00:23:40,790 –> 00:23:44,200
[paul_tyler]: what’s it going to take i mean
to get people to think about oh

496
00:23:44,605 –> 00:23:44,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:23:44,913 –> 00:23:45,154
[matt]: oh

498
00:23:45,122 –> 00:23:46,967
[paul_tyler]: what do i a between

499
00:23:47,163 –> 00:23:47,424
[matt]: oh

500
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:55,302
[paul_tyler]: my equity my bonds and by the
way you know annuities are bond like protection

501
00:23:55,382 –> 00:24:00,253
[paul_tyler]: their insurance what’s the what do we
need here changing forms in this business is

502
00:24:00,333 –> 00:24:01,756
[paul_tyler]: hard really hard

503
00:24:03,793 –> 00:24:08,242
[matt]: yeah that topic paul is is m
s you know i think that one of

504
00:24:08,262 –> 00:24:09,385
[matt]: the most abused terms

505
00:24:09,745 –> 00:24:10,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

506
00:24:09,986 –> 00:24:15,736
[matt]: in the financial services industry today is
financial wellness everybody has a different definition everybody

507
00:24:15,897 –> 00:24:19,844
[matt]: thinks that it means something else there’s
all kinds of software out there and the

508
00:24:19,884 –> 00:24:24,312
[matt]: bottom line is that the participants rarely
engage in that unless

509
00:24:24,685 –> 00:24:25,435
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

510
00:24:24,893 –> 00:24:31,223
[matt]: somebody comes out meets with them and
really talks about their specific situation and so

511
00:24:31,303 –> 00:24:37,356
[matt]: it becomes a challenge to to do
education broadly at the participant level see that’s

512
00:24:37,417 –> 00:24:38,908
[matt]: why i like the d a

513
00:24:39,912 –> 00:24:40,465
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

514
00:24:40,003 –> 00:24:44,531
[matt]: you know we’ve done a really good
job on the on the accumulation side of

515
00:24:44,891 –> 00:24:51,522
[matt]: retirement savings with auto enrolment autoescalation you
know things like that where to the end

516
00:24:51,623 –> 00:24:54,730
[matt]: investor it’s kind of painless because it’s
small incremental changes

517
00:24:54,521 –> 00:24:55,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

518
00:24:54,810 –> 00:25:01,385
[matt]: over time but it’s really disappointing that
once somebody has worked and accumulated the assets

519
00:25:01,425 –> 00:25:05,947
[matt]: and we all know that all investors
under saved that when they get to retirement

520
00:25:06,913 –> 00:25:11,180
[matt]: there’s no way to help them with
that going forward and typically if you’re sixty

521
00:25:11,260 –> 00:25:15,588
[matt]: five and you’ve got a nest egg
and you’re getting ready to retire um

522
00:25:15,445 –> 00:25:15,769
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

523
00:25:16,088 –> 00:25:19,374
[matt]: you know you might know what your
fixed expenses are but if you’re left on

524
00:25:19,414 –> 00:25:23,101
[matt]: your own to navigate that and if
we look at the vast majority of investors

525
00:25:23,149 –> 00:25:23,845
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

526
00:25:23,903 –> 00:25:31,090
[matt]: they don’t have enough in acids qualify
to really be serviced by a financial advisor

527
00:25:31,270 –> 00:25:36,559
[matt]: and so there’s a humungus gap out
there in the market today um and again

528
00:25:36,800 –> 00:25:40,325
[matt]: that’s that’s a reason why i believe
that p d i a is such a

529
00:25:40,385 –> 00:25:44,992
[matt]: great alternative for the vast majority of
retirement savers

530
00:25:46,066 –> 00:25:51,034
[ramsey_d_smith]: that is such an important point because
it right it enhances the accumulation phase by

531
00:25:51,695 –> 00:25:57,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: by stabilizing stabilizing account value is a
clear path into into retirement with us stable

532
00:25:58,126 –> 00:26:03,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of foundational income but then i
think this is a really critical point and

533
00:26:03,655 –> 00:26:07,181
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think the industry still needs to
figure out what this looks like but this

534
00:26:07,261 –> 00:26:12,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: notion of staying in plan through now
through a post retirement um i think it’s

535
00:26:12,790 –> 00:26:17,298
[ramsey_d_smith]: really important and to your you made
the point earlier it means more assets retained

536
00:26:17,358 –> 00:26:23,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: by by plan sponsor so that’s more
cost efficiencies purp i pen that’s great um

537
00:26:23,627 –> 00:26:27,052
[ramsey_d_smith]: i do think and actually and the
other thing is that it means not rolling

538
00:26:27,152 –> 00:26:33,892
[ramsey_d_smith]: over into you know expensive you know
an expensive alternative that might mar may not

539
00:26:33,952 –> 00:26:36,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: be you know managed by an r
a or some other

540
00:26:36,204 –> 00:26:36,387
[matt]: that’s

541
00:26:36,416 –> 00:26:36,837
[ramsey_d_smith]: platform

542
00:26:36,469 –> 00:26:36,631
[matt]: right

543
00:26:37,718 –> 00:26:40,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: um but here’s the thing in order
to make that work

544
00:26:40,833 –> 00:26:41,583
[matt]: yeah

545
00:26:41,585 –> 00:26:46,697
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan sponsors or their you know the
vendors have to have a post retirement platform

546
00:26:47,279 –> 00:26:53,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: that replaces some of those services are
provided right now by that that advisor that

547
00:26:53,521 –> 00:26:56,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: takes the role over like those are
those are those are this real value added

548
00:26:56,726 –> 00:27:02,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: services in there even if they’re sometimes
expensive there’s real value added services so what

549
00:27:02,156 –> 00:27:04,684
[ramsey_d_smith]: are your thoughts instead of where now
where

550
00:27:04,563 –> 00:27:04,766
[matt]: oh

551
00:27:04,804 –> 00:27:10,771
[ramsey_d_smith]: we are is an industry instead of
offering those post retirement services sort of in

552
00:27:11,353 –> 00:27:14,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan is that a lot more work
to come or you think we’re head in

553
00:27:15,002 –> 00:27:15,062
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

554
00:27:15,015 –> 00:27:15,056
[matt]: i

555
00:27:15,082 –> 00:27:15,202
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

556
00:27:15,178 –> 00:27:15,361
[matt]: think

557
00:27:15,222 –> 00:27:15,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: direction

558
00:27:16,313 –> 00:27:19,718
[matt]: i think that we’re still in the
in the picture warming up on the mound

559
00:27:19,818 –> 00:27:20,119
[matt]: before

560
00:27:20,305 –> 00:27:21,085
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

561
00:27:20,480 –> 00:27:25,107
[matt]: they take the mound in the first
inning i mean you know ramsey it’s crazy

562
00:27:25,147 –> 00:27:25,768
[matt]: when you think about

563
00:27:25,705 –> 00:27:26,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

564
00:27:25,828 –> 00:27:30,416
[matt]: again all the debate about financial welles
or are ways to get people to save

565
00:27:30,496 –> 00:27:35,585
[matt]: more i feel like that’s where more
of the conversation is than you know now

566
00:27:35,645 –> 00:27:40,533
[matt]: that somebody’s reached retirement how do we
help them going forward and again i feel

567
00:27:40,593 –> 00:27:45,374
[matt]: like that’s a topic that’s just really
starting to gain momentum i know that there’s

568
00:27:45,434 –> 00:27:47,457
[matt]: some things in secure act to ow

569
00:27:47,665 –> 00:27:47,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

570
00:27:48,098 –> 00:27:52,946
[matt]: that may help with that but i
really do feel that on the legislative side

571
00:27:53,527 –> 00:28:01,836
[matt]: that the legislators are becoming more interested
and the retirement outcome certainly because you know

572
00:28:01,956 –> 00:28:07,165
[matt]: say what you will about so security
but you know we’ve got to figure out

573
00:28:07,205 –> 00:28:08,888
[matt]: a way to refill that trust fund
too

574
00:28:08,875 –> 00:28:08,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

575
00:28:09,048 –> 00:28:13,560
[matt]: and so there’s only so many ways
that we can do that and so yeah

576
00:28:13,660 –> 00:28:18,426
[matt]: i think that the i really think
that the next focus from the financial services

577
00:28:18,487 –> 00:28:18,928
[matt]: community

578
00:28:18,934 –> 00:28:18,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

579
00:28:19,208 –> 00:28:23,740
[matt]: is going to be on you know
post accumulation and how we help people going

580
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:24,121
[matt]: forward

581
00:28:26,147 –> 00:28:30,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: i agree and i think it’s great
and i think we need to come up

582
00:28:30,253 –> 00:28:36,764
[ramsey_d_smith]: with an institutionally priced and scaleable solution
that it reaches like all consumers who need

583
00:28:36,804 –> 00:28:38,595
[ramsey_d_smith]: it just the wealthy so that’s i
think it’s

584
00:28:38,574 –> 00:28:38,654
[matt]: and

585
00:28:38,636 –> 00:28:39,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

586
00:28:38,875 –> 00:28:43,328
[matt]: ramsey he brought up something that i
is again very near and dear to my

587
00:28:43,429 –> 00:28:43,689
[matt]: heart

588
00:28:44,117 –> 00:28:44,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

589
00:28:44,883 –> 00:28:48,879
[matt]: now that’s the fiduciary standard and the
benefit by keeping people in plan

590
00:28:48,805 –> 00:28:49,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

591
00:28:49,140 –> 00:28:49,300
[matt]: is

592
00:28:49,733 –> 00:28:49,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

593
00:28:49,883 –> 00:28:52,531
[matt]: those are those are fiduciary accounts by
default

594
00:28:52,766 –> 00:28:52,889
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

595
00:28:53,233 –> 00:28:56,805
[matt]: so you’ve got a fediciary that’s sitting
on top of that is for the participants

596
00:28:57,547 –> 00:29:04,391
[matt]: sole benefit that that plan exists and
if somebody takes their their roll over and

597
00:29:04,552 –> 00:29:09,780
[matt]: they’re not financially save that’s when people
can really get into trouble and that’s

598
00:29:09,840 –> 00:29:10,082
[paul_tyler]: oh

599
00:29:10,021 –> 00:29:13,307
[matt]: that’s where all those horses he’s come
from so yeah i think that that’s another

600
00:29:13,347 –> 00:29:16,032
[matt]: benefit of keeping people in plan

601
00:29:16,455 –> 00:29:16,637
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

602
00:29:16,710 –> 00:29:23,141
[paul_tyler]: so so maker question from the annuity
space you and ramsey are wild in the

603
00:29:23,361 –> 00:29:27,488
[paul_tyler]: industry is wildly successful and let’s say
it know ramsey what what’s a

604
00:29:27,543 –> 00:29:27,748
[matt]: oh

605
00:29:27,568 –> 00:29:30,436
[paul_tyler]: big number five per cent i mean
if we were to look back and say

606
00:29:30,496 –> 00:29:34,407
[paul_tyler]: wow this is this was wildly successful
or five percent of

607
00:29:34,863 –> 00:29:35,127
[matt]: yeah

608
00:29:35,610 –> 00:29:40,310
[paul_tyler]: kferinkasset’s in annuity is ten percent you
have a view m

609
00:29:40,736 –> 00:29:43,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: ten per cent would be seven hundred
billion dollars

610
00:29:43,460 –> 00:29:43,602
[paul_tyler]: yeah

611
00:29:43,686 –> 00:29:45,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that would be d be a
nice start

612
00:29:45,400 –> 00:29:45,720
[paul_tyler]: huge

613
00:29:46,113 –> 00:29:46,958
[matt]: it’d be a good start

614
00:29:47,002 –> 00:29:47,123
[paul_tyler]: yeah

615
00:29:47,335 –> 00:29:47,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

616
00:29:47,363 –> 00:29:51,570
[paul_tyler]: let’s cut it back and say so
five percent um you know at what what

617
00:29:51,650 –> 00:29:52,872
[paul_tyler]: does this mean for

618
00:29:52,848 –> 00:29:52,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

619
00:29:53,293 –> 00:30:00,104
[paul_tyler]: the ou know independent agent independent advisor
doing you know inganuities today because does it

620
00:30:00,204 –> 00:30:00,425
[paul_tyler]: just

621
00:30:00,205 –> 00:30:00,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

622
00:30:01,487 –> 00:30:06,355
[paul_tyler]: if you delivered annuity you’ve educated public
to the point where they understand and they

623
00:30:06,435 –> 00:30:10,823
[paul_tyler]: love them and the market stays or
de s roll overs go down and so

624
00:30:11,184 –> 00:30:14,250
[paul_tyler]: you know we’re kind of it’s a
water bed the market

625
00:30:15,503 –> 00:30:19,166
[matt]: really really two questions there right one
is what does it do to the advisor

626
00:30:19,186 –> 00:30:22,669
[matt]: who’s focused on annuities and then the
other one is a really common question that

627
00:30:22,709 –> 00:30:23,170
[matt]: i get is

628
00:30:23,455 –> 00:30:24,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:30:23,610 –> 00:30:27,294
[matt]: why would i do an i plan
guarantee because i’m not going to get any

630
00:30:27,334 –> 00:30:31,038
[matt]: roll over business so those are like
two separate questions but i believe that for

631
00:30:31,118 –> 00:30:37,965
[matt]: the for the financial professional who’s focused
on annuities having inplananuities will be a big

632
00:30:38,025 –> 00:30:42,569
[matt]: lift to their business because again i
would say that you know most practicipants don’t

633
00:30:42,609 –> 00:30:43,569
[matt]: even read their statement

634
00:30:43,410 –> 00:30:43,957
[paul_tyler]: oh

635
00:30:44,310 –> 00:30:50,767
[matt]: and they certainly don’t understand fees or
disclosure so there’s a reluctance for investors to

636
00:30:50,807 –> 00:30:54,914
[matt]: look at some of these solutions is
they just don’t understand them and so if

637
00:30:54,974 –> 00:30:59,141
[matt]: the average participant in a plan could
understand that they are protected with a guarantee

638
00:31:00,103 –> 00:31:03,829
[matt]: everybody has held away assets that are
outside the plan so i think that that

639
00:31:03,869 –> 00:31:08,617
[matt]: would be that would make the story
much easier for those people that are really

640
00:31:08,697 –> 00:31:13,385
[matt]: focused on providing guaranteed income solutions under
wealth man inside because again you’re just going

641
00:31:13,405 –> 00:31:19,014
[matt]: to have a population that’s more educated
the other thing is when a population is

642
00:31:19,094 –> 00:31:23,822
[matt]: more educated it brings more transparency to
the market and that’s good for everybody that’s

643
00:31:23,842 –> 00:31:24,263
[matt]: god for the

644
00:31:24,205 –> 00:31:25,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

645
00:31:24,843 –> 00:31:29,408
[matt]: the advisors that are focused on that
it’s good for the end investors um so

646
00:31:29,488 –> 00:31:33,092
[matt]: that that’s one segment of it paul
the other question that i get asked often

647
00:31:33,172 –> 00:31:38,335
[matt]: is advisers just going to kill my
roll over business and you know if that’s

648
00:31:38,355 –> 00:31:40,318
[matt]: what you built your business on again
i

649
00:31:40,320 –> 00:31:40,562
[paul_tyler]: oh

650
00:31:40,358 –> 00:31:44,525
[matt]: would just challenge that advisor to look
at the demographics of a plan because whether

651
00:31:44,565 –> 00:31:50,755
[matt]: it’s the old eighty twenty rule or
ninety ten the people have sophisticated planning needs

652
00:31:51,295 –> 00:31:55,300
[matt]: they most likely again have outside assets
that they’re going to need help with and

653
00:31:55,320 –> 00:31:59,330
[matt]: they’re still going to look to that
advisor for that the for somebody who’s worked

654
00:31:59,370 –> 00:32:03,584
[matt]: in the plan and they’ve got you
know forty thousand dollars

655
00:32:03,510 –> 00:32:04,110
[paul_tyler]: yeah

656
00:32:04,005 –> 00:32:08,753
[matt]: most likely the advisor um you know
is going to push them into a managed

657
00:32:08,793 –> 00:32:13,421
[matt]: portfolio or you know they may not
even have the time to meet somebody like

658
00:32:13,481 –> 00:32:19,090
[matt]: that so um you know i think
that the in plan is good because again

659
00:32:19,150 –> 00:32:24,459
[matt]: it brings visibility to the idea of
guaranteed income and secondly those individuals with more

660
00:32:24,519 –> 00:32:28,298
[matt]: sophisticated needs they’re going to be lookin
for financial professional help anyways

661
00:32:30,726 –> 00:32:34,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so we we were supposed
to also talk about the four percent rule

662
00:32:34,993 –> 00:32:36,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: but where we’re hitting the

663
00:32:36,783 –> 00:32:37,431
[matt]: yeah

664
00:32:36,896 –> 00:32:40,983
[ramsey_d_smith]: the end of time here so i
know there’s if there’s any any quick comments

665
00:32:41,003 –> 00:32:41,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: you

666
00:32:41,034 –> 00:32:41,280
[matt]: yeah

667
00:32:41,163 –> 00:32:44,073
[ramsey_d_smith]: want to make on or we can
have you come back to to talk about

668
00:32:44,114 –> 00:32:46,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: that sometimes soon as well

669
00:32:47,073 –> 00:32:47,213
[matt]: i’d

670
00:32:47,150 –> 00:32:47,291
[paul_tyler]: yeah

671
00:32:47,233 –> 00:32:50,839
[matt]: love to come back i could do
i could i could beat michell’s record for

672
00:32:50,879 –> 00:32:52,863
[matt]: being on the shows i got so
much to talk about

673
00:32:52,710 –> 00:32:53,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

674
00:32:52,963 –> 00:32:53,123
[matt]: but

675
00:32:53,325 –> 00:32:54,475
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

676
00:32:54,005 –> 00:32:56,489
[matt]: you know you guys just have to
you guys just have to rain me in

677
00:32:56,869 –> 00:32:56,929
[matt]: you

678
00:32:56,875 –> 00:32:57,263
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

679
00:32:56,969 –> 00:33:02,423
[matt]: know i just think you know i
met with all of our partners yesterday and

680
00:33:02,604 –> 00:33:10,565
[matt]: the optimism around in plan has never
been higher i think that the portability question

681
00:33:10,645 –> 00:33:12,368
[matt]: is still a big issue that

682
00:33:12,325 –> 00:33:12,345
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:33:12,408 –> 00:33:14,592
[matt]: lingers out there both at

684
00:33:14,584 –> 00:33:14,605
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

685
00:33:14,632 –> 00:33:16,836
[matt]: the plan level and at the participant
level

686
00:33:17,695 –> 00:33:19,004
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

687
00:33:18,258 –> 00:33:23,773
[matt]: and at the same time you know
it’s the record keeping community that really needs

688
00:33:23,833 –> 00:33:27,835
[matt]: to make a decision in a commitment
to commit to these and i think that

689
00:33:27,915 –> 00:33:33,225
[matt]: twenty twenty three is going to be
a very interesting year to see what happens

690
00:33:33,445 –> 00:33:39,656
[matt]: in that regard and to see what
solutions these record keepers begin to select so

691
00:33:40,337 –> 00:33:43,282
[matt]: i think that the twenty three is
really going to be an interesting year for

692
00:33:43,362 –> 00:33:44,770
[matt]: the the plan market

693
00:33:45,631 –> 00:33:51,520
[paul_tyler]: yeah i this this was wonderful and
you know what you offered we’ll pull you

694
00:33:51,560 –> 00:33:53,203
[paul_tyler]: back to talk

695
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,173
[ramsey_d_smith]: ay

696
00:33:53,323 –> 00:33:53,564
[paul_tyler]: more

697
00:33:53,494 –> 00:33:53,837
[matt]: awesome

698
00:33:54,045 –> 00:33:54,465
[paul_tyler]: so i

699
00:33:54,535 –> 00:33:55,555
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

700
00:33:54,545 –> 00:34:00,615
[paul_tyler]: guess my last question for you matt
i looked back in twenty twenty twenty one

701
00:34:00,756 –> 00:34:04,101
[paul_tyler]: i think it was the year of
life insurance you know covid happened

702
00:34:03,835 –> 00:34:04,735
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

703
00:34:04,181 –> 00:34:08,629
[paul_tyler]: people said i’m like oh oh maybe
i could die and maybe i need insurance

704
00:34:09,371 –> 00:34:09,551
[paul_tyler]: we saw

705
00:34:09,573 –> 00:34:09,796
[matt]: oh

706
00:34:09,611 –> 00:34:14,265
[paul_tyler]: a big spike do you think twenty
two is the year of the annuity when

707
00:34:14,305 –> 00:34:20,470
[paul_tyler]: people say my fork dropped thirty percent
wow i’d had it this an annuity yeah

708
00:34:21,212 –> 00:34:24,882
[paul_tyler]: maybe this wouldn’t happened or at least
i wouldn’t because i wouldn’t be looking at

709
00:34:24,922 –> 00:34:26,286
[paul_tyler]: my statement like i’m looking today

710
00:34:28,976 –> 00:34:30,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know go ahead man

711
00:34:30,823 –> 00:34:33,948
[matt]: i was just going to say i
agree i think whether or not twenty two

712
00:34:34,088 –> 00:34:39,698
[matt]: is it definitely opens up the conversation
for literally every investor i also think it’s

713
00:34:39,718 –> 00:34:42,313
[matt]: a good time for financial advisors be

714
00:34:42,369 –> 00:34:42,390
[paul_tyler]: m

715
00:34:42,373 –> 00:34:45,496
[matt]: on the hunt for new clients i
know that they’re really worried about pretension now

716
00:34:45,656 –> 00:34:46,477
[matt]: but when the

717
00:34:46,479 –> 00:34:46,500
[paul_tyler]: m

718
00:34:46,497 –> 00:34:48,059
[matt]: market drops twenty five percent

719
00:34:48,060 –> 00:34:48,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:34:48,599 –> 00:34:51,202
[matt]: it’s not fair to blame your advisor
but i think a lot of people do

721
00:34:53,076 –> 00:34:56,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was just going to mention
that you know we recently put together a

722
00:34:56,682 –> 00:35:01,129
[ramsey_d_smith]: slide that showed five year performance of
target date funds and it was across all

723
00:35:01,530 –> 00:35:06,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: called the six top providers and the
five year return is about just just under

724
00:35:06,700 –> 00:35:11,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: five percent for most of them so
you know that’s five per cent from you

725
00:35:11,248 –> 00:35:11,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: know

726
00:35:11,340 –> 00:35:11,564
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:35:11,889 –> 00:35:13,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: in an at risk situation

728
00:35:13,883 –> 00:35:14,291
[matt]: that’s right

729
00:35:14,454 –> 00:35:18,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: and so the compare the comparison starts
look a lot more

730
00:35:18,390 –> 00:35:18,715
[paul_tyler]: oh

731
00:35:19,162 –> 00:35:20,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot more interesting for sure

732
00:35:21,410 –> 00:35:22,233
[paul_tyler]: yeah well listen

733
00:35:22,364 –> 00:35:23,108
[matt]: yeah you know what

734
00:35:24,942 –> 00:35:25,705
[paul_tyler]: go ahead matt please

735
00:35:25,606 –> 00:35:27,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead matt you have the stage

736
00:35:27,864 –> 00:35:29,667
[matt]: you guys you guys let me talk
all day long

737
00:35:29,805 –> 00:35:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

738
00:35:30,107 –> 00:35:33,413
[matt]: i was just going to say you
know another really quick personal story i have

739
00:35:33,453 –> 00:35:35,977
[matt]: a friend of mine that worked for
a t and t for thirty two years

740
00:35:36,358 –> 00:35:36,518
[matt]: and

741
00:35:36,489 –> 00:35:36,510
[paul_tyler]: m

742
00:35:37,039 –> 00:35:43,556
[matt]: he was thinking about retiring last december
and he didn’t and he just recently retired

743
00:35:43,976 –> 00:35:48,722
[matt]: um but if you think about the
difference between retiring in december

744
00:35:49,315 –> 00:35:49,762
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

745
00:35:49,493 –> 00:35:51,356
[matt]: of twenty one versus

746
00:35:51,055 –> 00:35:51,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

747
00:35:51,477 –> 00:35:56,377
[matt]: retiring in october of twenty two and
the hit that you’re for when k is

748
00:35:56,437 –> 00:36:00,726
[matt]: taken now again he has enough cash
on the side that he can wait for

749
00:36:00,886 –> 00:36:04,864
[matt]: the market to recover which is great
but if he didn’t you know from an

750
00:36:05,064 –> 00:36:07,890
[matt]: income standpoint ramsey on a monthly basis

751
00:36:07,705 –> 00:36:07,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

752
00:36:07,930 –> 00:36:10,634
[matt]: going forward those you know those

753
00:36:11,065 –> 00:36:11,755
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

754
00:36:12,117 –> 00:36:14,501
[matt]: those consequences are pretty severe and so
you’re right

755
00:36:14,670 –> 00:36:15,450
[paul_tyler]: yeah

756
00:36:15,273 –> 00:36:19,720
[matt]: if it’s five percent over the past
five years wouldn’t you rather have that guaranteed

757
00:36:20,185 –> 00:36:20,205
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

758
00:36:20,602 –> 00:36:24,748
[matt]: with maybe some upside is to oppose
to losing twenty five per cent

759
00:36:24,714 –> 00:36:24,796
[paul_tyler]: ah

760
00:36:24,769 –> 00:36:27,092
[matt]: of your value as you get to
enter into retirement

761
00:36:26,905 –> 00:36:26,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

762
00:36:27,533 –> 00:36:30,561
[matt]: um that’s a pretty tricky situation for
most investors

763
00:36:32,746 –> 00:36:37,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right matt it has been a
real pleasure o thank you for thank you

764
00:36:37,090 –> 00:36:39,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: for joining us and then you know
i echo

765
00:36:39,330 –> 00:36:39,611
[paul_tyler]: oh

766
00:36:39,432 –> 00:36:42,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul’s desire to have you come back
on sometime soon

767
00:36:43,313 –> 00:36:43,937
[matt]: on good thank you

768
00:36:43,970 –> 00:36:44,311
[paul_tyler]: excellent

769
00:36:43,997 –> 00:36:44,239
[matt]: fellows

770
00:36:44,510 –> 00:36:44,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

771
00:36:44,572 –> 00:36:48,582
[paul_tyler]: he thanks man thanks to our listeners
join us again next week for another great

772
00:36:48,682 –> 00:36:50,126
[paul_tyler]: episode of that annuity

773
00:36:50,035 –> 00:36:50,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:36:50,207 –> 00:36:50,788
[paul_tyler]: show thanks