That Annuity Show
As is often the case in this industry, what is new is old. Today, we’re seeing regulation re-emerge that the industry successfully challenged over 10 years ago. Kim O’Brien, Chief Executive Officer of the Federation of Americans for Consumer Choice joins us to talk about the new regs and court challenges her group currently leads. We also take the opportunity to get her perspective on a number of industry trends.
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Episode Transcript
The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.
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[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to a nother episode of that annuity show
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[paul_tyler]: ramsey good to see you
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[ramsey_d_smith]: always glad to be here
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[paul_tyler]: an you tell us where you are
today
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[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m in new york city
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[paul_tyler]: new york
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[ramsey_d_smith]: so
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[paul_tyler]: city
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[ramsey_d_smith]: back back
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[paul_tyler]: okay
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[ramsey_d_smith]: in my back and my adopted home
town
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[paul_tyler]: all right well
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[kim_o_brien]: start reading the news
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: well it was a cut in california
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: this morning but i’m now in new
york you know the after due i had
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[paul_tyler]: night fun in the middle row on
a red eye so i’m here but wouldn’t
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[paul_tyler]: miss this for the world we’ve got
just a great guest who’s had a tremendous
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[paul_tyler]: impact in the industry on like six
or seven different fronts and you know sometimes
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[paul_tyler]: ramsay i think why don’t we get
these people earlier but we do this today
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[paul_tyler]: we have kimobrian who’s chief executive officer
at the federation of americans for consumer choice
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[paul_tyler]: so kim welcome and maybe tell
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[kim_o_brien]: thank
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[paul_tyler]: us
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[kim_o_brien]: you
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[paul_tyler]: who you are what you’re doing and
then maybe give people your your back story
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[paul_tyler]: and i think stuff you’ve had really
fascinating career in this industry
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[kim_o_brien]: i’ve had a long one i don’t
know
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[paul_tyler]: uh
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[kim_o_brien]: it’s a fascinating
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[paul_tyler]: h
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[kim_o_brien]: but
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: when you get enough time in you
know you’ve got a lot of stuff going
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[kim_o_brien]: on but we have
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[kim_o_brien]: he federation is very
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: very
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: absolutely focused on making sure that there’s
a level playing field for independent distribution that
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[kim_o_brien]: includes marketing organize ation that includes agencies
and agents we just believe fully that without
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[kim_o_brien]: a level playing field
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: you know the security people are wonderful
they
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: all do a good job they do
what they do well but there are non
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[kim_o_brien]: security people out there that really understand
the insurance market and the insurance market and
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[kim_o_brien]: what we do is the fixed gare
ante products and the federation of americans for
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[kim_o_brien]: consumer choice really focuses on annuities fixed
annuities fixed life insurance and fixed long term
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[kim_o_brien]: care especially the long term care its
that are attached
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: the former two products so that is
what our focuses at the federation and we
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[kim_o_brien]: just want to make sure the consumers
have access to that insurance expert tis that
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[kim_o_brien]: agents have that is unique and and
probably not seen often enough in the securities
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[kim_o_brien]: industry and we want to make sure
that consumers have the choice of the advisor
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[kim_o_brien]: or the agent they want to work
with
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: want me to give you a little
background
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: or add to that
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[paul_tyler]: well yeah i would say choice is
an interesting word it’s loaded right
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[kim_o_brien]: yeah
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[paul_tyler]: and um you know i just came
out and you didn’t say you were sort
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[paul_tyler]: of a leader in the industry the
last time the industry faced significant you know
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[paul_tyler]: regulatory changes in because was that was
that two thout thousand nine thousand ten came
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[paul_tyler]: correct
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[kim_o_brien]: well two thousand and nine and two
thousand and ten was the suit the first
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[kim_o_brien]: suitability model that was trying to replicate
the fine model
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: and we were instrument and making sure
that it understood and it was informed
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: and worked for the insurance side because
fine of course works very well for the
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[kim_o_brien]: security side so that started and then
we got hit with one fifty
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: one a from the s c and
twenty ten yeah
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[paul_tyler]: yeah mammoth challenged in the in industry
and you were head of napa at that
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[paul_tyler]: point in time and it really you
brought i think the industry
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
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[paul_tyler]: together and sort of one voice had
really you know had significant you know significant
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[paul_tyler]: impact on what the business looks like
today now fast forward to today it feels
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[paul_tyler]: like it’s a repeat of you know
that that two thousand nine to two thousand
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[paul_tyler]: leven time periods so i guess what’s
similar what’s different with the rogue tory structure
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[paul_tyler]: regulatory environment that you see today
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[kim_o_brien]: what’s different about the regulatory environment today
both at the state level and the federal
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[kim_o_brien]: level but i’ll stick with your point
paul about the federal level is that we
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[kim_o_brien]: have now another agency the third time
has inserted itself during one fifty one a
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[kim_o_brien]: it was the s c who wanted
fixed indexed annuities at the time they were
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[kim_o_brien]: called equity indextenuities and that was
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: what my industry
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[paul_tyler]: ye
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[kim_o_brien]: we did wrong we called them equity
index and they really aren’t
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[paul_tyler]: yah
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[kim_o_brien]: equity index there because there’s not just
you know equity in there but we we
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[kim_o_brien]: we we to the fixed indexed
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[paul_tyler]: ah
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[kim_o_brien]: annuity and that was another movement just
to get the name changed so to get
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[kim_o_brien]: that understanding about the
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: fixed aspect that guaranteed insurance aspect of
the product
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: at the time it was the s
c that wanted to make sure that these
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[kim_o_brien]: were considered securities and that’s what we
fought and successfully won we fought it on
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[kim_o_brien]: many play and this is very similar
to the department of labor issue that we’re
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[kim_o_brien]: fighting right now at one fifty one
a we fought it both at the legislative
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[kim_o_brien]: level and also through the courts and
also through just individual impact from agents and
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[kim_o_brien]: agencies throughout the industry but we actually
want it
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front which was where
napa took the lead with many carriers that
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[kim_o_brien]: were very supportive of the effort and
assisted us all along the way but we
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[kim_o_brien]: ended up getting as you know the
harken amendment in the dad frank bill which
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[kim_o_brien]: declaratively
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: said that fixed indexed annuities were not
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[bruno_caron]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: securities so that was a huge wind
fast forward to the department they probably we’ve
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[kim_o_brien]: been dealing with this
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: the department since twenty ten on this
this is their third iteration um and on
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[kim_o_brien]: this front we’re suing fact suing
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: the department of labor but we also
have other trades that are working on efforts
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front as well and
we promote those and we you know totally
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[kim_o_brien]: support those but we felt it was
important to file and file a law suit
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[kim_o_brien]: now one because we felt it was
important to let the doll know that we
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[kim_o_brien]: felt that they have overreached their authority
as an agency they were not given this
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[kim_o_brien]: authority from congress
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: through orissa which is required and we
also felt that the removal of what’s called
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[kim_o_brien]: the desert ladder which was a letter
that declaratively said that an
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: agent insurance agent who sells an annuity
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: is not to be considered i’m shortening
it all down but it’s not to be
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[kim_o_brien]: considered an investment advisor or fiduciary and
we felt it was important to just step
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[kim_o_brien]: out early and get the d l
to under dan that they’ve got a law
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[kim_o_brien]: suit pending and we’re going to be
fighting them
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[paul_tyler]: excellent bruno carne our host just joined
us bruno welcome
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[ramsey_d_smith]: hey bruno
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[bruno_caron]: thank you
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[paul_tyler]: yeah and so
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[kim_o_brien]: bruno
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[paul_tyler]: yeah so
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[bruno_caron]: thank you
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[paul_tyler]: so
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[bruno_caron]: welcome
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[paul_tyler]: so so maybe we just dial in
a little bit on the last suit because
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[paul_tyler]: that’s one of the things i’ve been
read and following in the paper maybe tell
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[paul_tyler]: us about what you’re challenging where and
where is the law suit in terms of
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[paul_tyler]: challenging the federal federal regulations that been
enacted
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[kim_o_brien]: well we
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: we filed in texas we incorporated
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: ourselves in texas in anticipation of this
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[paul_tyler]: yes
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[kim_o_brien]: because we knew the doll was not
going to quit even
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: after twenty sixteen fifth circuit decision um
the same staff has been there
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: since twenty ten the same staff we
meet with every time
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: and they
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[paul_tyler]: yeah
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[kim_o_brien]: you know
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: kept coming forward with new rules and
so we knew that this was probably goin
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[kim_o_brien]: be likely so even though i’m situated
in phoenix we incorporated in texas uh understanding
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[kim_o_brien]: that we would probably be here
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[paul_tyler]: m
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[kim_o_brien]: today and we are so we filed
we have submitted our brief we have three
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[kim_o_brien]: briefing three briefing scheduled
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: um and then an oral argument and
right now we’ve we’ve put our first brief
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[kim_o_brien]: in the d l has filed their
response brief um we get to file another
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[kim_o_brien]: brief they get to fill another brief
oh i misstated there’s only four briefs and
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[kim_o_brien]: then we have oral arguments and ural
arguments have now been pushed
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: out they originally scheduled for december fourteenth
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[paul_tyler]: oh
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[kim_o_brien]: but the d l has requested a
delay and everybody’s agreed and the magistrate has
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[kim_o_brien]: agreed so we’re now at liettaorl arguments
in january january eleventh
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[paul_tyler]: so so so the path to do
this i mean i’m a i am an
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[paul_tyler]: attorney but i don’t claim to be
one
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[kim_o_brien]: i’m not a lawyer
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[paul_tyler]: but
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[kim_o_brien]: either so
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[paul_tyler]: but i think
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[kim_o_brien]: i’m
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[paul_tyler]: here
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[kim_o_brien]: just
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[paul_tyler]: at
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[kim_o_brien]: not
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[paul_tyler]: this point so so you file state
i guess trial level is that right
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[kim_o_brien]: yes they call it
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[paul_tyler]: magistrate
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00:09:56,515 –> 00:09:57,217
[kim_o_brien]: a magistrate
201
00:09:57,568 –> 00:09:57,828
[paul_tyler]: um
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00:09:58,341 –> 00:09:58,503
[kim_o_brien]: right
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00:09:58,810 –> 00:10:01,574
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m sure you’ll win it
gets a p
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00:10:01,660 –> 00:10:01,781
[kim_o_brien]: oh
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00:10:01,835 –> 00:10:05,021
[paul_tyler]: l at the pellet level in texas
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00:10:04,860 –> 00:10:05,204
[kim_o_brien]: oh
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00:10:05,121 –> 00:10:06,083
[paul_tyler]: goes to their supreme
208
00:10:06,033 –> 00:10:06,053
[kim_o_brien]: a
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00:10:06,204 –> 00:10:09,490
[paul_tyler]: court and then i guess i will
go straight to the u s supreme court
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00:10:09,551 –> 00:10:10,152
[paul_tyler]: is that correct
211
00:10:11,300 –> 00:10:11,865
[kim_o_brien]: that’s correct
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00:10:11,848 –> 00:10:11,930
[paul_tyler]: and
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00:10:12,470 –> 00:10:13,651
[kim_o_brien]: that’s the path um
214
00:10:13,459 –> 00:10:13,620
[paul_tyler]: yeah
215
00:10:14,071 –> 00:10:14,171
[kim_o_brien]: we
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00:10:15,165 –> 00:10:15,451
[paul_tyler]: oh
217
00:10:15,612 –> 00:10:22,018
[kim_o_brien]: we feel strongly on that will win
and i mentioned early before we recorded as
218
00:10:21,984 –> 00:10:22,005
[paul_tyler]: m
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00:10:22,078 –> 00:10:22,899
[kim_o_brien]: a ex year leader
220
00:10:23,115 –> 00:10:23,805
[paul_tyler]: yeah
221
00:10:23,239 –> 00:10:29,554
[kim_o_brien]: i just got to believe in the
victory but if we don’t we know either
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00:10:29,795 –> 00:10:32,517
[kim_o_brien]: party at the magistrate level will appeal
223
00:10:32,585 –> 00:10:32,706
[paul_tyler]: yeah
224
00:10:32,877 –> 00:10:38,355
[kim_o_brien]: so we will be at the apellat
court right after the decision by the magistrate
225
00:10:39,216 –> 00:10:43,263
[paul_tyler]: and like you know again this is
asking a hard question you know or you
226
00:10:43,303 –> 00:10:49,533
[paul_tyler]: know eric would give you some rmarnrrgeneral
council would come up with a pretty clever
227
00:10:49,633 –> 00:10:55,216
[paul_tyler]: answer this how long do you think
this process runs is this a one year
228
00:10:55,337 –> 00:10:58,526
[paul_tyler]: two year three year process oh
229
00:10:58,600 –> 00:11:04,429
[kim_o_brien]: that is a good question and it’s
very hard courts are very hard on the
230
00:11:04,490 –> 00:11:08,396
[kim_o_brien]: magistrate we have and that our legal
231
00:11:08,424 –> 00:11:08,445
[paul_tyler]: m
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00:11:08,917 –> 00:11:16,530
[kim_o_brien]: litigation council understands because our litigation council
that we hired in dallas texas is very
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00:11:16,650 –> 00:11:23,201
[kim_o_brien]: familiar with the texas court system and
they’re very familiar with this particular magistrate um
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00:11:23,205 –> 00:11:23,925
[paul_tyler]: yeah
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00:11:23,301 –> 00:11:24,202
[kim_o_brien]: this magistrate
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00:11:24,165 –> 00:11:24,367
[paul_tyler]: oh
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00:11:24,263 –> 00:11:25,184
[kim_o_brien]: does not like to
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00:11:25,502 –> 00:11:25,644
[paul_tyler]: yeah
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00:11:25,725 –> 00:11:33,137
[kim_o_brien]: you know slow down he’s a very
efficient uh judicial judge and we think that
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00:11:33,197 –> 00:11:39,187
[kim_o_brien]: we’ll get a decision out him i’ve
heard the lawyers tell us it probably expected
241
00:11:39,768 –> 00:11:47,062
[kim_o_brien]: in april is then we were in
appeal paul and that’s goin take so i
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00:11:47,143 –> 00:11:50,097
[kim_o_brien]: think we’re in it for easily another
two years
243
00:11:51,467 –> 00:11:55,193
[ramsey_d_smith]: so can i ask a quick question
like what are the what are the differences
244
00:11:55,514 –> 00:12:03,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the the issues that are being
contested in this lawsuit versus the prior ones
245
00:12:03,647 –> 00:12:06,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: that you mentioned is is just is
it a full re play or or there
246
00:12:06,591 –> 00:12:09,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: some fundamental differences since since the prior
rounds
247
00:12:11,740 –> 00:12:13,562
[kim_o_brien]: yes i think so ramsey
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00:12:13,455 –> 00:12:14,295
[paul_tyler]: oh
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00:12:13,683 –> 00:12:17,449
[kim_o_brien]: that was an excellent question we believe
that
250
00:12:18,080 –> 00:12:18,285
[paul_tyler]: yeah
251
00:12:18,741 –> 00:12:23,769
[kim_o_brien]: what they did when they were told
what they couldn’t do with the fifth circuit
252
00:12:23,889 –> 00:12:31,682
[kim_o_brien]: decision they just pretty much rearranged the
deck chairs on the titan and put this
253
00:12:31,843 –> 00:12:34,668
[kim_o_brien]: preamble in place that essentially
254
00:12:34,540 –> 00:12:34,561
[paul_tyler]: i
255
00:12:35,611 –> 00:12:36,536
[kim_o_brien]: re interpreted
256
00:12:36,105 –> 00:12:36,307
[paul_tyler]: yeah
257
00:12:37,620 –> 00:12:44,832
[kim_o_brien]: new interpretation what they call a final
interpretation of the five part test which essentially
258
00:12:44,912 –> 00:12:51,814
[kim_o_brien]: makes everybody a fiduciary if they have
any expectation of a continued relationship with the
259
00:12:51,875 –> 00:13:01,261
[kim_o_brien]: client and totally disregarded the fifth circuit
decision which was that in order to have
260
00:13:01,321 –> 00:13:08,114
[kim_o_brien]: that expectation you have to have you
know a plan and play so contract with
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00:13:08,155 –> 00:13:14,797
[kim_o_brien]: your with your client um and they
buy passed all that and said just any
262
00:13:14,898 –> 00:13:22,050
[kim_o_brien]: expectation a continued relationship so their new
interpretation of the five parts
263
00:13:21,975 –> 00:13:21,995
[paul_tyler]: m
264
00:13:22,070 –> 00:13:25,917
[kim_o_brien]: test is the source of our argument
265
00:13:27,667 –> 00:13:29,296
[paul_tyler]: yeah well it’s
266
00:13:29,730 –> 00:13:33,301
[kim_o_brien]: then you combine that if i just
add on if you combine that with the
267
00:13:33,381 –> 00:13:42,527
[kim_o_brien]: removal of the desert love letter which
excluded the insurance transactions that removal
268
00:13:42,525 –> 00:13:42,766
[paul_tyler]: yeah
269
00:13:43,269 –> 00:13:44,752
[kim_o_brien]: all with the new interpretation
270
00:13:44,415 –> 00:13:44,435
[paul_tyler]: m
271
00:13:44,813 –> 00:13:50,205
[kim_o_brien]: of the five par test those two
points the problem with this new rule that
272
00:13:50,265 –> 00:13:55,036
[kim_o_brien]: the dol says is really not you
know we’re really doing everything that the court
273
00:13:55,136 –> 00:14:00,282
[kim_o_brien]: told us to do in the fifth
circuit decision and they’re really not it’s just
274
00:14:00,403 –> 00:14:01,687
[kim_o_brien]: a obviscation
275
00:14:02,648 –> 00:14:02,829
[paul_tyler]: well
276
00:14:02,827 –> 00:14:03,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
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00:14:02,950 –> 00:14:04,541
[paul_tyler]: i was go ahead ramsey
278
00:14:05,967 –> 00:14:06,774
[ramsey_d_smith]: i say thanks for that
279
00:14:08,815 –> 00:14:08,956
[paul_tyler]: yeah
280
00:14:09,441 –> 00:14:09,849
[kim_o_brien]: the help
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00:14:10,979 –> 00:14:14,625
[paul_tyler]: yeah it helps so i guess we’ll
stay tuned you know and good luck with
282
00:14:14,685 –> 00:14:18,551
[paul_tyler]: your with a suit now i was
at the napa conference
283
00:14:18,730 –> 00:14:18,970
[bruno_caron]: my
284
00:14:18,952 –> 00:14:19,373
[paul_tyler]: for two
285
00:14:19,257 –> 00:14:19,278
[kim_o_brien]: a
286
00:14:19,413 –> 00:14:23,000
[paul_tyler]: days at my i’m seeing bruno first
time i’ve been there bruno i don’t know
287
00:14:23,020 –> 00:14:26,916
[paul_tyler]: if you haf you been to napa
no it was it was
288
00:14:26,882 –> 00:14:26,902
[bruno_caron]: i
289
00:14:26,976 –> 00:14:27,216
[paul_tyler]: great
290
00:14:27,003 –> 00:14:27,144
[bruno_caron]: never
291
00:14:27,256 –> 00:14:30,839
[paul_tyler]: you know we talked a little bit
about bout this before him and certainly regulatory
292
00:14:30,919 –> 00:14:34,422
[paul_tyler]: issues were way up to the fore
front of a lot of questions in the
293
00:14:34,522 –> 00:14:41,572
[paul_tyler]: in the carrier round table i guess
you know this business a lot of this
294
00:14:41,613 –> 00:14:46,381
[paul_tyler]: business just stay is the same and
a few things
295
00:14:46,300 –> 00:14:46,320
[bruno_caron]: m
296
00:14:46,521 –> 00:14:50,447
[paul_tyler]: change i mean if you if you
looked at the landscape the industry landscape today
297
00:14:50,628 –> 00:14:57,676
[paul_tyler]: versus ten years ago you know kim
what oh you know is is it a
298
00:14:57,736 –> 00:15:02,744
[paul_tyler]: cession the same industry or you know
what do you see that’s that may be
299
00:15:02,825 –> 00:15:07,813
[paul_tyler]: different at this point in terms of
product distribution how we’re marketing technology what are
300
00:15:07,833 –> 00:15:13,220
[paul_tyler]: the what are the major changes that
that you think are the most you know
301
00:15:13,380 –> 00:15:16,424
[paul_tyler]: biggest drivers you know for the next
few years
302
00:15:18,890 –> 00:15:26,456
[kim_o_brien]: well on the product side i think
i’ll go three elements run product one distribution
303
00:15:26,857 –> 00:15:31,474
[kim_o_brien]: and third carrier um on the
304
00:15:31,515 –> 00:15:33,885
[paul_tyler]: oh
305
00:15:31,534 –> 00:15:37,023
[kim_o_brien]: product side we’re having a lot more
entry into the market place there there when
306
00:15:37,103 –> 00:15:39,167
[kim_o_brien]: i started i think i counted
307
00:15:39,354 –> 00:15:39,375
[paul_tyler]: m
308
00:15:40,248 –> 00:15:40,549
[kim_o_brien]: forty
309
00:15:40,455 –> 00:15:41,745
[paul_tyler]: yeah
310
00:15:40,649 –> 00:15:43,213
[kim_o_brien]: four uh fixed indexenuities
311
00:15:42,405 –> 00:15:42,547
[paul_tyler]: ye
312
00:15:43,294 –> 00:15:47,280
[kim_o_brien]: and about i don’t know you know
take out the immediate there’s tons
313
00:15:47,064 –> 00:15:47,085
[paul_tyler]: m
314
00:15:47,340 –> 00:15:49,123
[kim_o_brien]: of those but if you just go
with the
315
00:15:49,335 –> 00:15:49,557
[paul_tyler]: oh
316
00:15:49,484 –> 00:15:54,416
[kim_o_brien]: what we used to call traditional annuities
there is about twelve hundred and now that
317
00:15:54,536 –> 00:16:00,113
[kim_o_brien]: fixed index annuity a slot has exponentially
increased and the premium
318
00:15:59,754 –> 00:15:59,775
[paul_tyler]: m
319
00:16:00,314 –> 00:16:03,199
[kim_o_brien]: i mean when again when we hit
two million
320
00:16:02,925 –> 00:16:03,247
[paul_tyler]: oh
321
00:16:03,659 –> 00:16:06,023
[kim_o_brien]: in premium production in nineteen
322
00:16:05,724 –> 00:16:05,745
[paul_tyler]: m
323
00:16:06,083 –> 00:16:07,886
[kim_o_brien]: ninety eight we thought that was huge
324
00:16:07,965 –> 00:16:08,865
[paul_tyler]: yeah
325
00:16:08,387 –> 00:16:10,511
[kim_o_brien]: and now we’re at what a hundred
forty billion
326
00:16:10,326 –> 00:16:10,467
[paul_tyler]: yeah
327
00:16:11,673 –> 00:16:18,164
[kim_o_brien]: expected so i think on the product
side we have a lot more product availability
328
00:16:18,264 –> 00:16:24,935
[kim_o_brien]: which is another key to the independent
adviser and agent because they can offer more
329
00:16:24,995 –> 00:16:29,262
[kim_o_brien]: products and we also have much more
innovation on the products
330
00:16:29,475 –> 00:16:29,495
[paul_tyler]: m
331
00:16:29,683 –> 00:16:31,526
[kim_o_brien]: with these different industries
332
00:16:31,614 –> 00:16:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m
333
00:16:31,626 –> 00:16:34,210
[kim_o_brien]: i think we mentioned before we went
here
334
00:16:34,005 –> 00:16:35,085
[paul_tyler]: oh
335
00:16:35,052 –> 00:16:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: there’s so many more industries out there
that
336
00:16:37,914 –> 00:16:37,935
[paul_tyler]: m
337
00:16:37,957 –> 00:16:43,345
[kim_o_brien]: customers can choose from and the diversification
that they can put into their fixed index
338
00:16:44,187 –> 00:16:49,794
[kim_o_brien]: portfolio is is much more broader and
and deeper into the
339
00:16:50,505 –> 00:16:50,830
[paul_tyler]: oh
340
00:16:50,595 –> 00:16:59,307
[kim_o_brien]: index marketplace on the distribution side what
we’re seeing very much is the consolidation
341
00:16:58,880 –> 00:16:58,981
[bruno_caron]: ah
342
00:16:59,807 –> 00:17:08,602
[kim_o_brien]: of independent personally owned privately owned businesses
and we see three major conglomerates that are
343
00:17:08,942 –> 00:17:10,124
[kim_o_brien]: you know moving
344
00:17:09,915 –> 00:17:10,197
[paul_tyler]: oh
345
00:17:10,204 –> 00:17:16,411
[kim_o_brien]: people into into the consolidation market um
m that’s that’s
346
00:17:16,215 –> 00:17:16,680
[paul_tyler]: oh
347
00:17:16,552 –> 00:17:18,254
[kim_o_brien]: new we still have
348
00:17:19,005 –> 00:17:19,785
[paul_tyler]: my
349
00:17:19,096 –> 00:17:20,518
[kim_o_brien]: we count about a hundred and
350
00:17:20,771 –> 00:17:20,853
[paul_tyler]: ah
351
00:17:20,959 –> 00:17:22,922
[kim_o_brien]: forty individual modes
352
00:17:22,755 –> 00:17:23,059
[paul_tyler]: yes
353
00:17:22,982 –> 00:17:28,592
[kim_o_brien]: that are still family owned family run
businesses um if add life and long term
354
00:17:28,692 –> 00:17:32,458
[kim_o_brien]: care into that we’re up at about
two fifty to sixty so there’s still a
355
00:17:32,518 –> 00:17:38,708
[kim_o_brien]: lot of small businesses that are are
not you know sold and owned by these
356
00:17:39,069 –> 00:17:48,693
[kim_o_brien]: large corporations and they are corporations um
so we think very importantly those are important
357
00:17:48,973 –> 00:17:52,319
[kim_o_brien]: people get to make their choice of
of how they run their
358
00:17:52,305 –> 00:17:52,325
[paul_tyler]: m
359
00:17:52,399 –> 00:17:59,611
[kim_o_brien]: business but the small folks that are
running their smaller and mid sized mos also
360
00:18:00,593 –> 00:18:03,898
[kim_o_brien]: need an avenue and need a voice
and an advocate to
361
00:18:03,894 –> 00:18:03,914
[paul_tyler]: a
362
00:18:03,958 –> 00:18:09,127
[kim_o_brien]: protect their businesses and then the third
element is the carrier element we’re seeing new
363
00:18:09,207 –> 00:18:09,708
[kim_o_brien]: carriers
364
00:18:10,005 –> 00:18:10,287
[paul_tyler]: yeah
365
00:18:10,149 –> 00:18:13,912
[kim_o_brien]: coming in there’s the names are
366
00:18:14,288 –> 00:18:14,528
[paul_tyler]: right
367
00:18:14,914 –> 00:18:19,541
[kim_o_brien]: when we changed our name from the
mutual group to cleric i thought it sounds
368
00:18:19,455 –> 00:18:20,374
[paul_tyler]: ye
369
00:18:19,621 –> 00:18:20,623
[kim_o_brien]: like you know a nasal
370
00:18:20,805 –> 00:18:21,705
[paul_tyler]: yeah
371
00:18:21,685 –> 00:18:21,945
[kim_o_brien]: drug
372
00:18:22,065 –> 00:18:22,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah
373
00:18:22,126 –> 00:18:23,828
[kim_o_brien]: but these names
374
00:18:23,685 –> 00:18:23,705
[paul_tyler]: m
375
00:18:23,869 –> 00:18:25,251
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in the market
376
00:18:25,395 –> 00:18:27,195
[paul_tyler]: oh
377
00:18:25,712 –> 00:18:29,899
[kim_o_brien]: there’s a new one that just entered
i think about last year and there’s another
378
00:18:30,059 –> 00:18:31,702
[kim_o_brien]: one i talked to a good
379
00:18:31,614 –> 00:18:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m
380
00:18:31,762 –> 00:18:37,991
[kim_o_brien]: friend who’s an i m very long
in the industry and he’s actually been tapped
381
00:18:38,272 –> 00:18:42,957
[kim_o_brien]: to run this new carrier so we’re
seeing new and smaller
382
00:18:42,705 –> 00:18:43,464
[paul_tyler]: yah
383
00:18:43,057 –> 00:18:48,895
[kim_o_brien]: carriers come in so those are the
three things that i see changing on that
384
00:18:48,975 –> 00:18:49,576
[kim_o_brien]: last note if
385
00:18:49,554 –> 00:18:49,575
[paul_tyler]: m
386
00:18:49,636 –> 00:18:55,978
[kim_o_brien]: i may just add an shut me
up if you need to the smaller companies
387
00:18:56,018 –> 00:19:03,205
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in and they’re really
drive you know the big carriers we used
388
00:19:03,245 –> 00:19:04,768
[kim_o_brien]: to call them the big three as
389
00:19:04,785 –> 00:19:05,610
[paul_tyler]: uh
390
00:19:06,070 –> 00:19:06,450
[kim_o_brien]: that run
391
00:19:06,354 –> 00:19:06,375
[paul_tyler]: h
392
00:19:06,510 –> 00:19:06,991
[kim_o_brien]: the annuity
393
00:19:06,825 –> 00:19:07,695
[paul_tyler]: yeah
394
00:19:07,051 –> 00:19:13,562
[kim_o_brien]: marketplace um they still have a good
market handle on on the production but the
395
00:19:13,642 –> 00:19:14,424
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers
396
00:19:14,415 –> 00:19:14,638
[paul_tyler]: oh
397
00:19:14,484 –> 00:19:16,567
[kim_o_brien]: are really making a difference and
398
00:19:16,485 –> 00:19:16,505
[paul_tyler]: m
399
00:19:16,667 –> 00:19:17,569
[kim_o_brien]: some of these smaller
400
00:19:17,625 –> 00:19:17,846
[paul_tyler]: oh
401
00:19:17,629 –> 00:19:19,993
[kim_o_brien]: carriers and their product innovation
402
00:19:19,995 –> 00:19:20,317
[paul_tyler]: oh
403
00:19:20,454 –> 00:19:24,701
[kim_o_brien]: are really new and different when i
talk to our i m o and i
404
00:19:24,822 –> 00:19:30,562
[kim_o_brien]: talked to him all the time they
really like some of the quick to market
405
00:19:30,435 –> 00:19:30,657
[paul_tyler]: oh
406
00:19:31,023 –> 00:19:35,673
[kim_o_brien]: new innovative products that are coming out
of these smaller carriers and some of these
407
00:19:35,713 –> 00:19:36,495
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers
408
00:19:36,075 –> 00:19:36,825
[paul_tyler]: oh
409
00:19:36,575 –> 00:19:42,365
[kim_o_brien]: start out in there there be rated
you know they’re lower rated because their brand
410
00:19:42,445 –> 00:19:47,033
[kim_o_brien]: new um and they don’t have the
history and the reserving and all that stuff
411
00:19:48,115 –> 00:19:49,217
[kim_o_brien]: so that
412
00:19:49,005 –> 00:19:49,246
[paul_tyler]: oh
413
00:19:49,718 –> 00:19:55,428
[kim_o_brien]: that’s an important piece of our puzzle
because i think as they grow and we’ve
414
00:19:55,468 –> 00:20:02,854
[kim_o_brien]: seen this time and time again and
your company nassau is a great example as
415
00:20:02,934 –> 00:20:05,843
[kim_o_brien]: it grows their rating grows and
416
00:20:06,825 –> 00:20:07,845
[paul_tyler]: yeah
417
00:20:07,350 –> 00:20:12,515
[kim_o_brien]: you get more distribution you get more
innovation you get more productivity by blah blah
418
00:20:12,856 –> 00:20:15,739
[kim_o_brien]: and it just keeps going and i
think that’s a very positive thing
419
00:20:18,989 –> 00:20:22,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: well we’re quite fortunate that we have
we have on the call somebody
420
00:20:22,000 –> 00:20:22,690
[bruno_caron]: oh
421
00:20:22,136 –> 00:20:23,119
[ramsey_d_smith]: used to give those scores
422
00:20:22,810 –> 00:20:23,200
[bruno_caron]: yes
423
00:20:23,685 –> 00:20:23,967
[paul_tyler]: oh
424
00:20:26,774 –> 00:20:27,355
[bruno_caron]: it definitely
425
00:20:27,705 –> 00:20:28,575
[paul_tyler]: my
426
00:20:28,437 –> 00:20:30,400
[bruno_caron]: definitely sparked some many conversations
427
00:20:30,217 –> 00:20:30,501
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
428
00:20:30,500 –> 00:20:33,866
[bruno_caron]: in my in the last five years
to say the least
429
00:20:33,915 –> 00:20:34,605
[paul_tyler]: oh
430
00:20:33,926 –> 00:20:34,267
[bruno_caron]: so i
431
00:20:34,327 –> 00:20:34,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
432
00:20:34,387 –> 00:20:45,171
[bruno_caron]: definitely agree and concur with you that
those new carriers are definitely making their way
433
00:20:45,271 –> 00:20:50,436
[bruno_caron]: into into the industry fairly fairly fast
adding up on top of that you have
434
00:20:50,536 –> 00:20:54,440
[bruno_caron]: some of the the re insures that
are there to that that we you know
435
00:20:54,782 –> 00:20:56,088
[bruno_caron]: that are less on the forefront
436
00:20:56,355 –> 00:20:56,556
[paul_tyler]: oh
437
00:20:57,221 –> 00:21:04,136
[bruno_caron]: but the play major piece in terms
of capital allocation and supporting some of those
438
00:21:04,719 –> 00:21:09,288
[bruno_caron]: of those carriers so well agree more
on the on that point
439
00:21:09,525 –> 00:21:09,665
[paul_tyler]: yeah
440
00:21:09,769 –> 00:21:09,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah
441
00:21:10,386 –> 00:21:14,333
[paul_tyler]: i’m an optimist for the change i
mean i think the change is very positive
442
00:21:14,413 –> 00:21:20,122
[paul_tyler]: but you know he’s there’s a in
some great discussions on the on the panel
443
00:21:20,864 –> 00:21:24,390
[paul_tyler]: the im discussion with some of the
leading mos
444
00:21:24,580 –> 00:21:25,360
[bruno_caron]: oh
445
00:21:25,531 –> 00:21:29,959
[paul_tyler]: kim just hit on all those factors
like wow they like the new characters coming
446
00:21:30,059 –> 00:21:31,942
[paul_tyler]: in because they were quick to
447
00:21:32,536 –> 00:21:32,556
[kim_o_brien]: i
448
00:21:32,723 –> 00:21:34,386
[paul_tyler]: come up with me product designs
449
00:21:34,143 –> 00:21:34,348
[kim_o_brien]: okay
450
00:21:34,426 –> 00:21:39,555
[paul_tyler]: and they’re building them on new technology
new platforms that where you don’t have to
451
00:21:39,615 –> 00:21:44,964
[paul_tyler]: wait you know ramsey twelve months to
get a new index into a product which
452
00:21:45,004 –> 00:21:47,408
[paul_tyler]: i think a lot of us are
kind of you know locked the cycle that
453
00:21:47,468 –> 00:21:51,054
[paul_tyler]: a lot of us are locked into
you know the downside as well you know
454
00:21:51,114 –> 00:21:55,862
[paul_tyler]: do you know kim do they really
understand the business right because you can also
455
00:21:56,683 –> 00:21:59,448
[paul_tyler]: have price decisions you know made by
people
456
00:21:59,410 –> 00:22:00,370
[bruno_caron]: yeah
457
00:21:59,548 –> 00:22:05,518
[paul_tyler]: who sort of carry the industry into
places we don’t want to go so i
458
00:22:05,538 –> 00:22:09,345
[paul_tyler]: think we’ll hopefully these people are who
are you know leading a lot of these
459
00:22:09,445 –> 00:22:14,176
[paul_tyler]: isutivesare are cautious and bring some some
people who’ve you know got experience in this
460
00:22:14,256 –> 00:22:17,042
[paul_tyler]: industry in put them in the helm
461
00:22:18,710 –> 00:22:20,655
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a good point an
excellent
462
00:22:20,424 –> 00:22:20,445
[paul_tyler]: m
463
00:22:20,735 –> 00:22:22,098
[kim_o_brien]: point and i’ll use it
464
00:22:23,115 –> 00:22:23,397
[paul_tyler]: yeah
465
00:22:23,531 –> 00:22:26,938
[kim_o_brien]: shout out our platform and why we
think
466
00:22:26,779 –> 00:22:26,800
[bruno_caron]: m
467
00:22:26,998 –> 00:22:34,763
[kim_o_brien]: the d l is unnecessary because we
have unbelievable regulatory regime in our state insurance
468
00:22:35,525 –> 00:22:40,253
[kim_o_brien]: and they’re watching reserves they’re watching valuations
they’re watching
469
00:22:39,945 –> 00:22:40,230
[paul_tyler]: oh
470
00:22:40,333 –> 00:22:46,482
[kim_o_brien]: you know and i’m i’m on a
number of different an i c calls related
471
00:22:46,642 –> 00:22:55,204
[kim_o_brien]: to illustration modeling valuation reserving and i’m
not an actuary so i don’t understand it
472
00:22:55,264 –> 00:22:55,384
[kim_o_brien]: all
473
00:22:55,425 –> 00:22:56,505
[paul_tyler]: oh
474
00:22:55,504 –> 00:22:56,806
[kim_o_brien]: but we’re paying attention
475
00:22:57,165 –> 00:22:57,185
[paul_tyler]: m
476
00:22:57,708 –> 00:23:04,199
[kim_o_brien]: to see if it has any impact
on independent distribution but i just really and
477
00:23:04,259 –> 00:23:13,196
[kim_o_brien]: we know this from historical averages this
history that we rarely have a carrier that
478
00:23:14,350 –> 00:23:15,191
[kim_o_brien]: defaults or
479
00:23:15,218 –> 00:23:15,279
[paul_tyler]: hm
480
00:23:15,291 –> 00:23:16,593
[kim_o_brien]: goes into insolvency
481
00:23:16,614 –> 00:23:16,635
[paul_tyler]: m
482
00:23:17,395 –> 00:23:18,817
[kim_o_brien]: in the words of the n i
c
483
00:23:19,215 –> 00:23:19,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah
484
00:23:19,498 –> 00:23:25,488
[kim_o_brien]: and the few that we’ve had that
have gone into insolvency all the contracts have
485
00:23:25,528 –> 00:23:30,056
[kim_o_brien]: been purchased by another insurance company and
those contracts have been honored
486
00:23:30,137 –> 00:23:30,218
[paul_tyler]: ah
487
00:23:30,477 –> 00:23:37,368
[kim_o_brien]: and those consumers have been protected so
our regulatory regime is very robust and very
488
00:23:37,809 –> 00:23:43,434
[kim_o_brien]: strong and so i welcome these new
companies because you know that they’re going to
489
00:23:43,494 –> 00:23:49,039
[kim_o_brien]: get the oversight of of the regulators
in their states and in the states they
490
00:23:49,179 –> 00:23:49,619
[kim_o_brien]: operate
491
00:23:49,786 –> 00:23:50,247
[paul_tyler]: yeah you know
492
00:23:50,390 –> 00:23:51,072
[bruno_caron]: and to your point
493
00:23:51,451 –> 00:23:51,712
[paul_tyler]: go ahead
494
00:23:52,134 –> 00:23:58,580
[bruno_caron]: to your point i think the management
quality and ability to build and execute i
495
00:23:58,640 –> 00:24:03,567
[bruno_caron]: can state for a fact that it
is a consideration in terms of in terms
496
00:24:03,627 –> 00:24:04,529
[bruno_caron]: of ratings in general
497
00:24:05,876 –> 00:24:06,140
[kim_o_brien]: want it
498
00:24:06,265 –> 00:24:08,517
[bruno_caron]: especially for those those new carriers
499
00:24:09,760 –> 00:24:11,262
[kim_o_brien]: sorry i get so excited one
500
00:24:11,320 –> 00:24:11,340
[bruno_caron]: m
501
00:24:11,322 –> 00:24:12,444
[kim_o_brien]: of the things we’re working
502
00:24:12,289 –> 00:24:12,310
[bruno_caron]: m
503
00:24:12,384 –> 00:24:12,405
[paul_tyler]: m
504
00:24:12,564 –> 00:24:13,025
[kim_o_brien]: on at the
505
00:24:13,009 –> 00:24:13,030
[bruno_caron]: m
506
00:24:13,646 –> 00:24:17,413
[kim_o_brien]: fact is we want to change the
guarantee fund law
507
00:24:17,454 –> 00:24:17,475
[paul_tyler]: m
508
00:24:18,074 –> 00:24:23,463
[kim_o_brien]: and right now we think the guarantee
fund now is of the guarantee fund you
509
00:24:23,604 –> 00:24:24,946
[kim_o_brien]: all know that
510
00:24:25,390 –> 00:24:25,636
[bruno_caron]: oh
511
00:24:25,545 –> 00:24:25,791
[paul_tyler]: oh
512
00:24:25,668 –> 00:24:28,413
[kim_o_brien]: work in the industry that you will
have to say this
513
00:24:28,425 –> 00:24:28,690
[paul_tyler]: yes
514
00:24:28,473 –> 00:24:30,457
[kim_o_brien]: is not f d i c insured
515
00:24:31,240 –> 00:24:31,503
[bruno_caron]: oh
516
00:24:31,550 –> 00:24:33,753
[kim_o_brien]: but you can’t say to the customer
517
00:24:33,345 –> 00:24:33,365
[paul_tyler]: m
518
00:24:33,640 –> 00:24:33,660
[bruno_caron]: m
519
00:24:34,114 –> 00:24:35,777
[kim_o_brien]: but it is secondary
520
00:24:35,694 –> 00:24:35,715
[paul_tyler]: m
521
00:24:35,877 –> 00:24:38,201
[kim_o_brien]: insurance i always say annuities
522
00:24:38,055 –> 00:24:38,321
[paul_tyler]: oh
523
00:24:38,341 –> 00:24:44,234
[kim_o_brien]: and life insurance already come wrapped in
an insurance wrapper they don’t need f d
524
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:46,226
[kim_o_brien]: i c like a bank does but
525
00:24:46,485 –> 00:24:47,595
[paul_tyler]: oh
526
00:24:47,360 –> 00:24:52,128
[kim_o_brien]: in addition of course we all know
that there is the secondary insurance of the
527
00:24:52,168 –> 00:24:58,859
[kim_o_brien]: guarantee fund but you can’t talk about
that until the client has committed their money
528
00:24:58,905 –> 00:24:59,207
[paul_tyler]: oh
529
00:24:59,380 –> 00:25:01,884
[kim_o_brien]: received their contract from the insurer
530
00:25:02,475 –> 00:25:02,737
[paul_tyler]: oh
531
00:25:02,865 –> 00:25:07,593
[kim_o_brien]: and i got a call back in
twenty when was that a i g issue
532
00:25:09,136 –> 00:25:15,026
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t know whatever year it was
when everybody was concerned because of the aigs
533
00:25:15,607 –> 00:25:16,628
[kim_o_brien]: financial issues
534
00:25:16,575 –> 00:25:16,595
[paul_tyler]: m
535
00:25:16,889 –> 00:25:17,330
[kim_o_brien]: even though
536
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:17,934
[bruno_caron]: uh
537
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:19,874
[kim_o_brien]: america in general the insurance arm
538
00:25:19,815 –> 00:25:20,040
[paul_tyler]: oh
539
00:25:20,134 –> 00:25:25,523
[kim_o_brien]: was not impacted whatsoever i got a
call from woman in florida and she was
540
00:25:25,684 –> 00:25:26,024
[kim_o_brien]: very
541
00:25:25,895 –> 00:25:26,470
[bruno_caron]: kay
542
00:25:26,175 –> 00:25:26,457
[paul_tyler]: oh
543
00:25:26,385 –> 00:25:31,353
[kim_o_brien]: worried and very concerned because she had
you know five hundred thousand in an a
544
00:25:31,613 –> 00:25:37,503
[kim_o_brien]: g contract american general contract and she
was worried that was in trouble and
545
00:25:37,695 –> 00:25:37,997
[paul_tyler]: oh
546
00:25:37,944 –> 00:25:44,735
[kim_o_brien]: again if she had known early in
her decision making process that florida at the
547
00:25:44,775 –> 00:25:45,136
[kim_o_brien]: time
548
00:25:45,015 –> 00:25:46,065
[paul_tyler]: oh
549
00:25:45,216 –> 00:25:53,511
[kim_o_brien]: two under fifty blah blah she could
have diversified that choice between annuity contracts between
550
00:25:53,571 –> 00:25:58,941
[kim_o_brien]: annuity carriers whatever she wanted to do
if she had been aware ahead of time
551
00:25:59,355 –> 00:26:00,045
[paul_tyler]: yeah
552
00:25:59,442 –> 00:26:03,029
[kim_o_brien]: so what we’re working on at fact
is earlier disclosure
553
00:26:02,955 –> 00:26:03,197
[paul_tyler]: oh
554
00:26:04,060 –> 00:26:09,749
[kim_o_brien]: the whole reason we have the guarantee
fund disclosure rule in place is because
555
00:26:09,705 –> 00:26:10,905
[paul_tyler]: oh
556
00:26:11,011 –> 00:26:16,600
[kim_o_brien]: carriers were concerned that high rated carriers
were concerned that low rated care yours would
557
00:26:16,641 –> 00:26:16,821
[kim_o_brien]: just
558
00:26:17,085 –> 00:26:17,307
[paul_tyler]: oh
559
00:26:17,101 –> 00:26:21,689
[kim_o_brien]: you know say don’t worry about it
or be rated just by you’re protected by
560
00:26:21,749 –> 00:26:27,879
[kim_o_brien]: the guarantee fund so they are worried
about you know the slugging off the rating
561
00:26:28,200 –> 00:26:33,609
[kim_o_brien]: and and just promising the customer a
guarantee fund back up but we can do
562
00:26:33,989 –> 00:26:34,050
[kim_o_brien]: we
563
00:26:34,005 –> 00:26:34,246
[paul_tyler]: oh
564
00:26:34,110 –> 00:26:34,951
[kim_o_brien]: can do a better job
565
00:26:35,000 –> 00:26:35,241
[bruno_caron]: okay
566
00:26:35,051 –> 00:26:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: in disclosure and we can make sure
they understand
567
00:26:37,365 –> 00:26:37,647
[paul_tyler]: oh
568
00:26:38,357 –> 00:26:41,861
[kim_o_brien]: the rating aspect of it as well
as let them know
569
00:26:41,814 –> 00:26:41,835
[paul_tyler]: m
570
00:26:41,942 –> 00:26:46,807
[kim_o_brien]: ahead of time so they can make
important choices that will help them down the
571
00:26:46,867 –> 00:26:47,808
[kim_o_brien]: road should there be
572
00:26:47,934 –> 00:26:47,955
[paul_tyler]: m
573
00:26:48,128 –> 00:26:48,949
[kim_o_brien]: an insolvency
574
00:26:49,515 –> 00:26:53,201
[paul_tyler]: yeah i agree with you and we
had a great discussion with you know one
575
00:26:53,221 –> 00:26:56,427
[paul_tyler]: of your friends harry stout on that
topic and
576
00:26:57,480 –> 00:26:58,285
[kim_o_brien]: as harry out there
577
00:26:58,630 –> 00:27:01,916
[paul_tyler]: yeah he was he was now he
was not there he was on our show
578
00:27:02,557 –> 00:27:02,777
[paul_tyler]: maybe
579
00:27:03,370 –> 00:27:03,633
[kim_o_brien]: oh
580
00:27:03,538 –> 00:27:07,305
[paul_tyler]: two months ago now miss terry he
would have been a great addition to the
581
00:27:07,545 –> 00:27:09,348
[paul_tyler]: to the conference yeah
582
00:27:09,322 –> 00:27:09,342
[kim_o_brien]: i
583
00:27:09,388 –> 00:27:09,528
[paul_tyler]: well
584
00:27:09,564 –> 00:27:09,866
[kim_o_brien]: profess
585
00:27:09,849 –> 00:27:12,313
[paul_tyler]: if we were just sort o talk
about products for a minute because you know
586
00:27:12,634 –> 00:27:17,304
[paul_tyler]: we talked about that the distribution the
there’s a lot of discussion around induces ramsey
587
00:27:17,384 –> 00:27:19,990
[paul_tyler]: this will be a real
588
00:27:19,897 –> 00:27:20,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
589
00:27:20,090 –> 00:27:26,081
[paul_tyler]: interesting you know point of discussion for
you a lot of a lot of debate
590
00:27:26,182 –> 00:27:33,113
[paul_tyler]: everybody of course had very different opinions
on okay industries or industry index strategies i
591
00:27:33,153 –> 00:27:38,054
[paul_tyler]: think there as something like hunder fifty
industies inside cares right now now is that
592
00:27:38,094 –> 00:27:39,960
[paul_tyler]: too much too little
593
00:27:39,928 –> 00:27:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m surprised there aren’t more
594
00:27:41,986 –> 00:27:42,207
[paul_tyler]: well
595
00:27:42,340 –> 00:27:42,360
[bruno_caron]: m
596
00:27:43,108 –> 00:27:43,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s a lot
597
00:27:43,550 –> 00:27:43,851
[paul_tyler]: that was
598
00:27:43,770 –> 00:27:44,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know
599
00:27:44,272 –> 00:27:44,433
[paul_tyler]: that
600
00:27:44,773 –> 00:27:45,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have guessed
601
00:27:45,345 –> 00:27:45,365
[paul_tyler]: m
602
00:27:45,395 –> 00:27:48,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have actually guessed more it’s
been it’s been a booming industry for a
603
00:27:48,544 –> 00:27:48,765
[ramsey_d_smith]: while
604
00:27:49,836 –> 00:27:53,022
[paul_tyler]: yeah and and so you know came
to your point there were a lot of
605
00:27:53,082 –> 00:27:53,442
[paul_tyler]: arguments
606
00:27:53,086 –> 00:27:53,107
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
607
00:27:53,503 –> 00:27:58,471
[paul_tyler]: to say well there’s too many it’s
too confusing then people were saying look the
608
00:27:58,511 –> 00:28:02,658
[paul_tyler]: best ones haven’t been invented yet you
know we’re actually just kind of getting going
609
00:28:02,998 –> 00:28:05,963
[paul_tyler]: and you know potentially offering even
610
00:28:06,010 –> 00:28:06,970
[bruno_caron]: oh
611
00:28:06,204 –> 00:28:11,693
[paul_tyler]: sort of better diversity of protections for
you know the retirement savings and nest egs
612
00:28:11,793 –> 00:28:15,357
[paul_tyler]: mean where where do you follow you
saw the beginning of the industry
613
00:28:16,339 –> 00:28:16,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah
614
00:28:16,759 –> 00:28:20,103
[paul_tyler]: and you know i think right now
it’s yeah
615
00:28:23,790 –> 00:28:29,019
[kim_o_brien]: my thoughts are always choice i think
choice is a great thing and and one
616
00:28:29,606 –> 00:28:29,707
[paul_tyler]: ah
617
00:28:29,860 –> 00:28:30,321
[kim_o_brien]: back in
618
00:28:30,713 –> 00:28:30,874
[paul_tyler]: yes
619
00:28:31,022 –> 00:28:36,291
[kim_o_brien]: napa days i was called by an
agent to tell me that should shut down
620
00:28:36,672 –> 00:28:39,476
[kim_o_brien]: this product product a product
621
00:28:39,932 –> 00:28:40,095
[paul_tyler]: yeah
622
00:28:39,977 –> 00:28:43,804
[kim_o_brien]: was bad product a allowed this it
shouldn’t it shouldn’t be
623
00:28:43,935 –> 00:28:44,198
[paul_tyler]: oh
624
00:28:44,024 –> 00:28:48,554
[kim_o_brien]: you shouldn’t be promoting this product you
should shed it now
625
00:28:48,444 –> 00:28:48,465
[paul_tyler]: m
626
00:28:48,675 –> 00:28:56,235
[kim_o_brien]: this product happened to go through the
normal valuation all the aspects and the filing
627
00:28:56,295 –> 00:29:01,063
[kim_o_brien]: and the requirements from the state and
they had to meet all of the filing
628
00:29:01,183 –> 00:29:07,714
[kim_o_brien]: requirements to become a quote product and
once that happens and you know the state
629
00:29:07,665 –> 00:29:07,869
[paul_tyler]: oh
630
00:29:07,774 –> 00:29:16,048
[kim_o_brien]: is very every state has a very
difficult product development and product compliance and product
631
00:29:16,168 –> 00:29:21,838
[kim_o_brien]: submission process that’s half of the time
that it takes to develop a product is
632
00:29:21,918 –> 00:29:27,046
[kim_o_brien]: getting it approved by the state um
and and it’s a very very robust and
633
00:29:27,086 –> 00:29:33,433
[kim_o_brien]: a very thorough process so i felt
strongly that now as long as it was
634
00:29:33,473 –> 00:29:38,904
[kim_o_brien]: approved by the state and went through
this very very heavy betting um that it
635
00:29:38,984 –> 00:29:45,204
[kim_o_brien]: was a product and at napa when
i was there it was the national association
636
00:29:45,365 –> 00:29:52,375
[kim_o_brien]: for fixed annuity so we were for
it go to your question directly all these
637
00:29:52,455 –> 00:29:59,306
[kim_o_brien]: induscties and what not i think that’s
great it’s it’s it’s an innovation it’s helpful
638
00:30:00,669 –> 00:30:04,916
[kim_o_brien]: agents have to now step up i
think a little harder
639
00:30:04,725 –> 00:30:04,986
[paul_tyler]: oh
640
00:30:05,056 –> 00:30:09,223
[kim_o_brien]: because it’s more more information more education
641
00:30:09,015 –> 00:30:09,316
[paul_tyler]: oh
642
00:30:09,383 –> 00:30:16,241
[kim_o_brien]: more awareness more understanding of these industies
and they’ve been used to but i think
643
00:30:16,281 –> 00:30:21,008
[kim_o_brien]: the carriers do an excellent job of
doing that so
644
00:30:21,045 –> 00:30:21,286
[paul_tyler]: oh
645
00:30:21,991 –> 00:30:22,354
[kim_o_brien]: choice
646
00:30:22,875 –> 00:30:22,895
[paul_tyler]: m
647
00:30:22,939 –> 00:30:24,890
[kim_o_brien]: i’m for it m
648
00:30:25,636 –> 00:30:25,957
[paul_tyler]: bruno
649
00:30:26,430 –> 00:30:26,855
[bruno_caron]: wonderful
650
00:30:26,778 –> 00:30:27,178
[paul_tyler]: what’s your
651
00:30:27,460 –> 00:30:28,180
[bruno_caron]: yeah
652
00:30:29,442 –> 00:30:30,043
[paul_tyler]: what’s your take
653
00:30:29,832 –> 00:30:29,852
[bruno_caron]: i
654
00:30:30,103 –> 00:30:31,667
[paul_tyler]: on this oh
655
00:30:31,670 –> 00:30:32,894
[bruno_caron]: well no you know
656
00:30:33,915 –> 00:30:34,058
[paul_tyler]: ye
657
00:30:36,250 –> 00:30:38,755
[bruno_caron]: like every every other business more choice
658
00:30:39,204 –> 00:30:39,225
[paul_tyler]: m
659
00:30:39,256 –> 00:30:39,737
[bruno_caron]: is usually
660
00:30:40,605 –> 00:30:40,807
[paul_tyler]: oh
661
00:30:40,859 –> 00:30:41,641
[bruno_caron]: usually a good thing
662
00:30:41,565 –> 00:30:41,849
[paul_tyler]: oh
663
00:30:41,921 –> 00:30:43,585
[bruno_caron]: so i think that’s
664
00:30:44,385 –> 00:30:44,709
[paul_tyler]: oh
665
00:30:44,627 –> 00:30:49,794
[bruno_caron]: i would agree with that but i
wanted to come to a to a point
666
00:30:49,854 –> 00:30:56,292
[bruno_caron]: where where kim you mentioned that your
your un speech at you know
667
00:30:56,535 –> 00:30:57,285
[paul_tyler]: oh
668
00:30:57,096 –> 00:31:03,520
[bruno_caron]: investments and annuities it’s none in either
or and you know there is this you
669
00:31:03,560 –> 00:31:08,302
[bruno_caron]: know this popular saying out there where
people in our world
670
00:31:08,595 –> 00:31:08,859
[paul_tyler]: oh
671
00:31:08,622 –> 00:31:10,303
[bruno_caron]: you know completely understand
672
00:31:09,945 –> 00:31:09,965
[paul_tyler]: m
673
00:31:10,424 –> 00:31:12,045
[bruno_caron]: and agree with that but there seems
674
00:31:12,045 –> 00:31:12,307
[paul_tyler]: oh
675
00:31:12,125 –> 00:31:15,769
[bruno_caron]: to be some you know some some
train some philosophy
676
00:31:16,005 –> 00:31:17,265
[paul_tyler]: my
677
00:31:16,730 –> 00:31:17,212
[bruno_caron]: you know within
678
00:31:17,355 –> 00:31:17,581
[paul_tyler]: oh
679
00:31:17,432 –> 00:31:19,137
[bruno_caron]: the investment community that you know
680
00:31:19,275 –> 00:31:20,265
[paul_tyler]: yeah
681
00:31:19,397 –> 00:31:21,663
[bruno_caron]: investments are sufficient
682
00:31:21,474 –> 00:31:21,495
[paul_tyler]: m
683
00:31:21,723 –> 00:31:21,984
[bruno_caron]: enough
684
00:31:22,335 –> 00:31:22,617
[paul_tyler]: yeah
685
00:31:22,425 –> 00:31:30,244
[bruno_caron]: and annuities are not not necessary and
of course i used the word annuity in
686
00:31:30,425 –> 00:31:30,645
[bruno_caron]: very
687
00:31:30,555 –> 00:31:30,938
[paul_tyler]: oh
688
00:31:31,006 –> 00:31:32,308
[bruno_caron]: broad term we all
689
00:31:32,235 –> 00:31:33,105
[paul_tyler]: yeah
690
00:31:32,328 –> 00:31:34,351
[bruno_caron]: know they come in multiple flavors
691
00:31:34,230 –> 00:31:34,491
[kim_o_brien]: oh
692
00:31:35,874 –> 00:31:38,278
[bruno_caron]: but paul mentioned the young in the
end
693
00:31:38,265 –> 00:31:38,689
[paul_tyler]: oh
694
00:31:38,458 –> 00:31:43,190
[bruno_caron]: earlier how do you how do you
marry that how how do you get
695
00:31:43,245 –> 00:31:43,486
[paul_tyler]: oh
696
00:31:43,571 –> 00:31:43,912
[bruno_caron]: into
697
00:31:45,255 –> 00:31:46,455
[paul_tyler]: oh
698
00:31:45,657 –> 00:31:48,771
[bruno_caron]: to people from all the spectrum
699
00:31:48,856 –> 00:31:49,018
[paul_tyler]: yes
700
00:31:48,951 –> 00:31:53,359
[bruno_caron]: of financial services and agree that there’s
there’s some sort of balance and some sort
701
00:31:53,419 –> 00:31:59,369
[bruno_caron]: of equilibrium between between those those offerings
and those financial vehicles
702
00:32:00,045 –> 00:32:00,307
[paul_tyler]: oh
703
00:32:01,312 –> 00:32:05,560
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a very good question
and anna very
704
00:32:05,625 –> 00:32:05,645
[paul_tyler]: m
705
00:32:05,660 –> 00:32:15,102
[kim_o_brien]: broad question bruno but i’ve always felt
and in fact feel strongly that so the
706
00:32:15,202 –> 00:32:16,305
[kim_o_brien]: differentiation
707
00:32:15,645 –> 00:32:15,665
[paul_tyler]: m
708
00:32:16,445 –> 00:32:16,886
[kim_o_brien]: between
709
00:32:16,485 –> 00:32:16,789
[paul_tyler]: oh
710
00:32:16,966 –> 00:32:18,029
[kim_o_brien]: these two products
711
00:32:18,375 –> 00:32:19,515
[paul_tyler]: oh
712
00:32:18,970 –> 00:32:19,110
[kim_o_brien]: and
713
00:32:19,935 –> 00:32:20,895
[paul_tyler]: yeah
714
00:32:19,971 –> 00:32:26,672
[kim_o_brien]: regulators call annuities investments all the time
and it drives me crazy because annuities aren’t
715
00:32:26,792 –> 00:32:33,544
[kim_o_brien]: investments they are insurance first and foremost
yes we have wonderful products that can provide
716
00:32:33,604 –> 00:32:40,955
[kim_o_brien]: additional gain and additional money on top
the guarantees that’s great but at the end
717
00:32:41,015 –> 00:32:47,740
[kim_o_brien]: of the day it’s for the customer
the portion of their money whether it’s and
718
00:32:47,780 –> 00:32:51,964
[kim_o_brien]: we know we have many all of
our carriers that we work with have limitations
719
00:32:52,044 –> 00:32:56,949
[kim_o_brien]: on how much you can put in
to your annuity but however much they want
720
00:32:57,109 –> 00:33:02,477
[kim_o_brien]: to up to the carrier requirements that
they want protected
721
00:33:02,025 –> 00:33:02,045
[paul_tyler]: m
722
00:33:02,837 –> 00:33:07,365
[kim_o_brien]: or they want a guaranteed income stream
from a writer or from the contract
723
00:33:06,975 –> 00:33:07,095
[paul_tyler]: oh
724
00:33:07,485 –> 00:33:14,767
[kim_o_brien]: itself even without a writer they should
be allowed to make that decision and they
725
00:33:15,740 –> 00:33:16,421
[kim_o_brien]: your question
726
00:33:16,515 –> 00:33:16,535
[paul_tyler]: m
727
00:33:16,542 –> 00:33:21,454
[kim_o_brien]: goes deeper and i think it’s a
very good one in that it’s how do
728
00:33:21,534 –> 00:33:21,915
[kim_o_brien]: we get
729
00:33:22,125 –> 00:33:23,064
[paul_tyler]: yeah
730
00:33:22,336 –> 00:33:31,414
[kim_o_brien]: advisors recognize that value the customer for
the customer how do we get the investment
731
00:33:31,614 –> 00:33:40,088
[kim_o_brien]: biased if you will to recognize that
um and and that’s that’s a harder nut
732
00:33:40,369 –> 00:33:50,065
[kim_o_brien]: i think because they do have a
bias towards the investment accumulation but today in
733
00:33:50,145 –> 00:33:58,151
[kim_o_brien]: today’s world and why annuity sales flying
right now is because of the security of
734
00:33:58,211 –> 00:33:59,032
[kim_o_brien]: the marketplace
735
00:33:58,965 –> 00:33:59,227
[paul_tyler]: oh
736
00:33:59,553 –> 00:34:04,822
[kim_o_brien]: and the insecurity of the political climate
right now and so sales have just been
737
00:34:04,882 –> 00:34:05,603
[kim_o_brien]: booming because
738
00:34:05,505 –> 00:34:06,495
[paul_tyler]: yes
739
00:34:05,764 –> 00:34:08,929
[kim_o_brien]: obviously consumers are choosing protection
740
00:34:08,805 –> 00:34:09,027
[paul_tyler]: oh
741
00:34:09,410 –> 00:34:10,016
[kim_o_brien]: guarantees
742
00:34:10,845 –> 00:34:16,735
[paul_tyler]: yeah well there was a great discussion
on the panel and these were not cares
743
00:34:16,775 –> 00:34:20,261
[paul_tyler]: these are im o talking about where
should product
744
00:34:20,031 –> 00:34:20,640
[kim_o_brien]: don’t do that
745
00:34:20,481 –> 00:34:28,154
[paul_tyler]: designs head and you know kim there
was one voice very strongly saying that these
746
00:34:28,194 –> 00:34:33,984
[paul_tyler]: are contracts they’re not investments you know
there’s no reason why we have this regulatory
747
00:34:34,064 –> 00:34:39,393
[paul_tyler]: structure and the zero is our hero
you know in this business and you know
748
00:34:39,433 –> 00:34:45,363
[paul_tyler]: then we had another voice on the
on the discussion saying you know we should
749
00:34:45,683 –> 00:34:52,595
[paul_tyler]: actually you know takes take stock what’s
happening to rilla market and maybe we should
750
00:34:52,895 –> 00:34:56,642
[paul_tyler]: have protections up to a certain point
and that’s not it’s not a slippery slope
751
00:34:56,722 –> 00:35:02,031
[paul_tyler]: leading us into investments i mean do
you have any strong opinion about where the
752
00:35:02,091 –> 00:35:09,904
[paul_tyler]: industry should head should we say where
we’re about protecting principle full stop or start
753
00:35:09,964 –> 00:35:14,073
[paul_tyler]: to compete in the independent space a
little more with where the ryle designs are
754
00:35:14,093 –> 00:35:17,595
[paul_tyler]: headed yeah
755
00:35:18,311 –> 00:35:24,406
[kim_o_brien]: i’m not sure i understood that question
paul exactly but let me take a stab
756
00:35:24,446 –> 00:35:29,736
[kim_o_brien]: and if i miss the mark you
can correct me back but i do think
757
00:35:29,565 –> 00:35:29,912
[paul_tyler]: oh
758
00:35:30,137 –> 00:35:37,708
[kim_o_brien]: that we don’t many a many agents
don’t do as good of a job of
759
00:35:37,908 –> 00:35:44,856
[kim_o_brien]: talking about the protections and the guarantees
they really try to sell the gain
760
00:35:45,228 –> 00:35:45,795
[paul_tyler]: hm
761
00:35:45,660 –> 00:35:47,002
[kim_o_brien]: now this product could do
762
00:35:46,929 –> 00:35:47,094
[paul_tyler]: yes
763
00:35:47,783 –> 00:35:53,793
[kim_o_brien]: you know five percent six percent well
our target when we built them back in
764
00:35:53,893 –> 00:35:58,142
[kim_o_brien]: nineteen ninety five was we wanted to
and the reason the whole end ex market
765
00:35:58,222 –> 00:36:00,050
[kim_o_brien]: became into being was because we
766
00:36:00,105 –> 00:36:00,125
[paul_tyler]: m
767
00:36:00,150 –> 00:36:07,005
[kim_o_brien]: wanted to get a little more out
of the fixed you know portfolio of the
768
00:36:07,065 –> 00:36:11,893
[kim_o_brien]: carrier we wanted to squeeze a little
bit more interest out of that fix the
769
00:36:12,013 –> 00:36:18,424
[kim_o_brien]: carrier portfolio and so that’s how the
index product was born and we always built
770
00:36:18,484 –> 00:36:20,568
[kim_o_brien]: them so that they could probably provide
771
00:36:20,544 –> 00:36:20,565
[paul_tyler]: m
772
00:36:20,628 –> 00:36:25,596
[kim_o_brien]: and they have historically provided one and
a half to two percent more than a
773
00:36:25,676 –> 00:36:26,397
[kim_o_brien]: straight fixed
774
00:36:26,385 –> 00:36:27,105
[paul_tyler]: oh
775
00:36:26,498 –> 00:36:31,876
[kim_o_brien]: if you will traditional fixed or whatever
you want to call it um and even
776
00:36:31,936 –> 00:36:38,066
[kim_o_brien]: the magas um and and i think
they’re still hitting that mark so i can’t
777
00:36:38,167 –> 00:36:41,793
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t think we can oversell the
gain part um and
778
00:36:41,775 –> 00:36:41,795
[paul_tyler]: m
779
00:36:41,833 –> 00:36:43,015
[kim_o_brien]: i think sometimes we
780
00:36:43,005 –> 00:36:43,188
[paul_tyler]: oh
781
00:36:43,115 –> 00:36:46,060
[kim_o_brien]: do as an industry um and we
782
00:36:46,035 –> 00:36:46,357
[paul_tyler]: oh
783
00:36:46,180 –> 00:36:49,726
[kim_o_brien]: really do need to get back to
the elements of you know all
784
00:36:49,575 –> 00:36:50,535
[paul_tyler]: yeah
785
00:36:49,786 –> 00:36:55,380
[kim_o_brien]: of the reasons people buy insurance for
the protection of their home their car you
786
00:36:55,420 –> 00:37:01,552
[kim_o_brien]: know this is to protect their retirement
their income stream in retirement or if they
787
00:37:01,612 –> 00:37:05,796
[kim_o_brien]: have enough income dream from that investment
then this is to protect that
788
00:37:05,715 –> 00:37:06,615
[paul_tyler]: oh
789
00:37:05,936 –> 00:37:13,404
[kim_o_brien]: legacy gift that they’re leaving behind so
protection we think is the whole element of
790
00:37:13,684 –> 00:37:18,289
[kim_o_brien]: our market place and really should be
at the forefront of the sale
791
00:37:19,706 –> 00:37:20,507
[paul_tyler]: yeah well this is
792
00:37:20,774 –> 00:37:20,794
[kim_o_brien]: i
793
00:37:21,329 –> 00:37:21,489
[paul_tyler]: yeah
794
00:37:21,640 –> 00:37:21,882
[kim_o_brien]: answer
795
00:37:21,689 –> 00:37:26,497
[paul_tyler]: yeah and i think the discussion was
well you know should we say you’re not
796
00:37:26,537 –> 00:37:29,302
[paul_tyler]: going to lose any of your principle
or is it okay to say we’ll guarantee
797
00:37:29,382 –> 00:37:32,447
[paul_tyler]: that you’re not going to lose ninety
percent of you principle right so i mean
798
00:37:32,507 –> 00:37:38,157
[paul_tyler]: it’s splitting hairs but i’m with you
cam i like the insurance guarantees rams you
799
00:37:38,197 –> 00:37:39,299
[paul_tyler]: were we’re getting close to
800
00:37:39,937 –> 00:37:40,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh
801
00:37:40,020 –> 00:37:41,983
[paul_tyler]: ahead of time actually i’ll start with
you bruno
802
00:37:41,820 –> 00:37:41,964
[kim_o_brien]: yes
803
00:37:42,083 –> 00:37:46,096
[paul_tyler]: any last questions or thoughts for kim
oh
804
00:37:46,560 –> 00:37:47,364
[bruno_caron]: no i think we
805
00:37:48,045 –> 00:37:48,226
[paul_tyler]: yah
806
00:37:48,466 –> 00:37:48,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes
807
00:37:48,492 –> 00:37:48,512
[kim_o_brien]: a
808
00:37:49,830 –> 00:37:50,311
[bruno_caron]: brought it all
809
00:37:50,204 –> 00:37:50,265
[paul_tyler]: ah
810
00:37:50,772 –> 00:37:51,293
[bruno_caron]: all home with
811
00:37:51,705 –> 00:37:52,251
[paul_tyler]: oh
812
00:37:52,736 –> 00:37:56,905
[bruno_caron]: your last question so that that makes
makes perfect sense but thank you i think
813
00:37:56,925 –> 00:38:01,756
[bruno_caron]: that was that was that was great
keep keep the work up i think that’s
814
00:38:02,097 –> 00:38:05,887
[bruno_caron]: you’re doing great great service for all
of us
815
00:38:07,140 –> 00:38:07,482
[kim_o_brien]: bet ya
816
00:38:07,665 –> 00:38:07,968
[paul_tyler]: ramsey
817
00:38:08,197 –> 00:38:08,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
818
00:38:08,566 –> 00:38:10,434
[kim_o_brien]: i get to talk to the regulators
that’s
819
00:38:10,480 –> 00:38:10,500
[bruno_caron]: m
820
00:38:10,514 –> 00:38:10,936
[kim_o_brien]: my fun
821
00:38:11,317 –> 00:38:11,577
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure
822
00:38:11,985 –> 00:38:12,247
[paul_tyler]: oh
823
00:38:12,218 –> 00:38:12,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: so well
824
00:38:13,069 –> 00:38:13,812
[bruno_caron]: m oh
825
00:38:13,379 –> 00:38:15,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll be we’ll be watching with
826
00:38:15,139 –> 00:38:15,160
[bruno_caron]: h
827
00:38:15,142 –> 00:38:15,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: great
828
00:38:15,345 –> 00:38:15,365
[paul_tyler]: m
829
00:38:15,400 –> 00:38:15,662
[bruno_caron]: oh
830
00:38:15,422 –> 00:38:17,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: interest as you as you proceed with
your
831
00:38:17,895 –> 00:38:18,099
[paul_tyler]: oh
832
00:38:18,887 –> 00:38:20,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: various suits and negotiations
833
00:38:21,165 –> 00:38:22,485
[paul_tyler]: yeah
834
00:38:21,200 –> 00:38:21,384
[bruno_caron]: okay
835
00:38:21,351 –> 00:38:24,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: with you know i mean it’s true
like there’s
836
00:38:24,216 –> 00:38:24,398
[paul_tyler]: yeah
837
00:38:24,376 –> 00:38:27,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s all these different bureaucracies that want
to regulate the
838
00:38:27,435 –> 00:38:27,455
[paul_tyler]: m
839
00:38:27,481 –> 00:38:29,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: industry and it’s already got fifty states
to deal
840
00:38:29,574 –> 00:38:29,595
[paul_tyler]: m
841
00:38:29,665 –> 00:38:32,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: with right minute ah it’s a
842
00:38:32,475 –> 00:38:32,838
[paul_tyler]: oh
843
00:38:33,331 –> 00:38:33,959
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s a big burden
844
00:38:34,970 –> 00:38:38,716
[kim_o_brien]: it’s a big burden and what we’re
working on just so i can make sure
845
00:38:38,756 –> 00:38:42,242
[kim_o_brien]: that we’re not just on the federal
we’re trying to make sure that the n
846
00:38:42,522 –> 00:38:45,607
[kim_o_brien]: c model that we worked so hard
on to make sure there
847
00:38:45,615 –> 00:38:45,635
[paul_tyler]: m
848
00:38:45,627 –> 00:38:47,270
[kim_o_brien]: were elements that we key
849
00:38:47,475 –> 00:38:47,756
[paul_tyler]: oh
850
00:38:47,591 –> 00:38:54,262
[kim_o_brien]: and core to independent distributors and carriers
at support independent distribution we want to make
851
00:38:54,302 –> 00:38:54,442
[kim_o_brien]: sure
852
00:38:54,405 –> 00:38:54,506
[paul_tyler]: yah
853
00:38:54,522 –> 00:38:57,687
[kim_o_brien]: those states adopt them as we wrote
854
00:38:57,550 –> 00:38:58,300
[bruno_caron]: yeah
855
00:38:57,747 –> 00:39:02,997
[kim_o_brien]: them you know an i see so
we deal state by state by tate and
856
00:39:03,057 –> 00:39:07,605
[kim_o_brien]: it’s important and real quick paul on
the one hundred per cent of your money
857
00:39:07,685 –> 00:39:08,887
[kim_o_brien]: is protected versus
858
00:39:08,857 –> 00:39:08,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: m
859
00:39:08,967 –> 00:39:14,356
[kim_o_brien]: the ninety the only way you lose
money if you leave early
860
00:39:14,517 –> 00:39:14,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah
861
00:39:15,780 –> 00:39:16,563
[kim_o_brien]: and the surrender
862
00:39:16,155 –> 00:39:16,457
[paul_tyler]: oh
863
00:39:16,643 –> 00:39:23,074
[kim_o_brien]: period i’ve always argued surrender chart is
the fairest way to the customer
864
00:39:22,935 –> 00:39:23,805
[paul_tyler]: oh
865
00:39:23,554 –> 00:39:24,155
[kim_o_brien]: to charge
866
00:39:24,375 –> 00:39:24,700
[paul_tyler]: oh
867
00:39:24,496 –> 00:39:30,967
[kim_o_brien]: for leaving early because other ways you
could charge through fees through every product this
868
00:39:31,207 –> 00:39:34,145
[kim_o_brien]: only hits the customer chooses to leave
early
869
00:39:34,715 –> 00:39:35,257
[paul_tyler]: i like that
870
00:39:35,210 –> 00:39:36,723
[kim_o_brien]: every other way in which you
871
00:39:36,802 –> 00:39:36,942
[paul_tyler]: yeah
872
00:39:38,200 –> 00:39:39,481
[kim_o_brien]: you build a product
873
00:39:39,075 –> 00:39:40,014
[paul_tyler]: yeh
874
00:39:40,402 –> 00:39:41,783
[kim_o_brien]: every other actuarial way
875
00:39:41,865 –> 00:39:42,129
[paul_tyler]: yeah
876
00:39:41,924 –> 00:39:43,445
[kim_o_brien]: to put money in to protect
877
00:39:43,425 –> 00:39:43,445
[paul_tyler]: m
878
00:39:43,525 –> 00:39:50,701
[kim_o_brien]: the carrier from leaving early hits everybody
surrender charges only hits the person that leaves
879
00:39:50,862 –> 00:39:52,408
[kim_o_brien]: and chooses to leave early
880
00:39:53,305 –> 00:39:56,791
[paul_tyler]: i like that well thanks so much
for joining we obviously gonna have to have
881
00:39:56,811 –> 00:39:59,155
[paul_tyler]: you back especially as some of
882
00:39:59,153 –> 00:39:59,314
[kim_o_brien]: love
883
00:39:59,175 –> 00:39:59,315
[paul_tyler]: these
884
00:39:59,374 –> 00:39:59,434
[kim_o_brien]: it
885
00:39:59,596 –> 00:40:06,207
[paul_tyler]: yeah as events progress what’s the best
way for people find out more about your
886
00:40:06,227 –> 00:40:10,314
[paul_tyler]: organization follow it may be supported if
you’re an independent agent
887
00:40:12,270 –> 00:40:16,395
[kim_o_brien]: we’re at fact choice so it’s w
w w dot f a c
888
00:40:16,545 –> 00:40:17,295
[paul_tyler]: oh
889
00:40:17,156 –> 00:40:22,326
[kim_o_brien]: choice spelled out dot com i’m kim
fact choice dot com
890
00:40:22,355 –> 00:40:26,141
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right hey bruno thanks ramsey
thanks and
891
00:40:26,190 –> 00:40:26,513
[bruno_caron]: thank you
892
00:40:26,810 –> 00:40:27,580
[kim_o_brien]: nice to see you
893
00:40:27,503 –> 00:40:33,393
[paul_tyler]: yeah i got some great feedback in
request for future guests at kim out at
894
00:40:33,433 –> 00:40:36,999
[paul_tyler]: the conference send it to us you
know the people you’d like to get on
895
00:40:37,560 –> 00:40:40,785
[paul_tyler]: send us notes and well we’ll make
it happen all right hey thanks so much
896
00:40:40,846 –> 00:40:41,066
[paul_tyler]: on join
897
00:40:40,980 –> 00:40:41,100
[kim_o_brien]: you
898
00:40:41,106 –> 00:40:41,326
[paul_tyler]: us again
899
00:40:41,341 –> 00:40:41,382
[kim_o_brien]: if
900
00:40:41,386 –> 00:40:41,547
[paul_tyler]: next
901
00:40:41,442 –> 00:40:42,787
[kim_o_brien]: you need any help let me know
902
00:40:42,709 –> 00:40:48,041
[paul_tyler]: okay m i will take you up
on that so listen thanks for listening join
903
00:40:48,102 –> 00:40:51,012
[paul_tyler]: us again next week for another episode
of that annuity show
904
00:40:50,947 –> 00:40:53,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah yah
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