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[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul
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[Paul Tyler]: tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show ramsey welcome
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[Ramsey Smith]: thank you it’s great to be back live from new york city having a good time
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah and yeah it’s good to see you
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[Paul Tyler]: so we’ve had kind of an
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[Michael Finke]: hundred and
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[Paul Tyler]: interesting series of discussions about rules of thumb for a variety of topics
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[Paul Tyler]: including withdrawal and mr bill bengen joined us a week or two ago to talk about
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[Paul Tyler]: the four percent rule
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[Paul Tyler]: and
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[Michael Finke]: sure
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[Paul Tyler]: we’ve got a great discussion teed up with somebody else who’s a very important
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[Paul Tyler]: voice in
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[Paul Tyler]: understanding how that may work do you want to introduce our our guest ramsey
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure absolutely so delighted to be joined today by michael finke he is he is
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[Ramsey Smith]: one of you know number of sort of very important voices of what i like to call the
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[Ramsey Smith]: academic and sort of pragmatic cabal in
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[Ramsey Smith]: retirement uh in retirement research
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[Michael Finke]: hm
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[Ramsey Smith]: and we’re just delighted to have him he’s the professor of wealth management at
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[Ramsey Smith]: the american college of financial services and he is the frank m
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[Ramsey Smith]: angle chair of economic security
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[Ramsey Smith]: so
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[Michael Finke]: yeah
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[Ramsey Smith]: michael
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s been we should have done this six months ago a year ago delighted to have you
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[Ramsey Smith]: on
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[Ramsey Smith]: so many things to talk about
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[Ramsey Smith]: let’s get right into it i would like to first of all find out
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[Ramsey Smith]: what you’ve been focusing on you know most recently in your you know in your
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[Ramsey Smith]: travels and your practice
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[Michael Finke]: well i topic
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[Michael Finke]: a couple of topics ramsey so first of all great to be here
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[Michael Finke]: just as a way of background this is one of
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[Michael Finke]: i
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[Michael Finke]: those topics that i’ve been working on now for over a decade it’s been i think now
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[Michael Finke]: ten years
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: since wade vow and david blanchett and i wrote the original article criticizing
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[Michael Finke]: the
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[Michael Finke]: four percent rule in a low interest rate environment
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[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: and since then
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[Michael Finke]: like that
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[Michael Finke]: i’ve done a lot of different studies on
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[Michael Finke]: understanding what risk means in retirement helping clarify the idea of
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[Michael Finke]: taking risk
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[Michael Finke]: oh yeah
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[Michael Finke]: by investing in stocks and bonds and
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[Michael Finke]: bed
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[Michael Finke]: understanding what happens when things go well and when things don’t t go not so
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[Michael Finke]: well
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[Michael Finke]: uh what if they
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[Michael Finke]: and one
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[Ramsey Smith]: i think
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[Michael Finke]: of the things that i’ve been thinking a lot about over the last year or two is
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[Michael Finke]: this idea of a fixed withdrawal rate and a certain amount
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[Michael Finke]: you know
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[Michael Finke]: of safety so the whole
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[Michael Finke]: like
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[Michael Finke]: idea of a monte carlo analysis so if you run one of these monte carlo analyses
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[Michael Finke]: which by the way it is just a randomizer it has a distribution of returns that you
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[Michael Finke]: can get on an investment portfolio you have to plug in your expected returns your
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[Michael Finke]: expected standard deviation it’ll spit out an asset return the first year’ll
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[Michael Finke]: simulate
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[Michael Finke]: about
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[Michael Finke]: thousands of retirements you know sometimes people get lucky sometimes people get
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[Michael Finke]: unlucky
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[Michael Finke]: but i didn’t
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[Michael Finke]: but i think when you run a money carlo just and you just do it at one point in
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[Michael Finke]: time it gives you this idea that you’re ninety five percentage safe or ninety
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[Michael Finke]: ninety percent safe what does that safety mean it means that you can withdraw a
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[Michael Finke]: certain amount of money every year from a retirement portfolio and this is
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[Michael Finke]: really
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[Michael Finke]: really the idea behind bill
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[Michael Finke]: bacon
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[Michael Finke]: begin’s work is let’s look at historical time periods and let’s see how much you
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[Michael Finke]: could have withdrawn from an investment portfolio of stocks and bonds safely
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[Michael Finke]: historically
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[Michael Finke]: and one of the points
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[Michael Finke]: the white on
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[Michael Finke]: that i think is not covered enough
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[Michael Finke]: he he want a money car
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[Michael Finke]: is that when you run a money carlo and you’re doing a simulation and you’re
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[Michael Finke]: i remember that
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[Michael Finke]: trying to capture what asset returns are probably going to look like in the future
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[Michael Finke]: because again we’re in a low interest rate environment we have very high prices on
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[Michael Finke]: risky assets like stocks that’s going to adjust our expectations of returns
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[Michael Finke]: downward what sort of a risk does that involve does that change the mechanics of
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[Michael Finke]: the four percent rule
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[Michael Finke]: but also
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[Michael Finke]: but also what happens when you get unlucky and to me that is the one area of
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[Michael Finke]: retirement income planning that is not discussed enough so if you get unlucky the
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[Michael Finke]: first year of retirement so for example you experience something like investors
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[Michael Finke]: experienced in two thousand
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[Michael Finke]: you
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[Michael Finke]: eight how much does that affect the safe withdrawal rate now we
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[Michael Finke]: no
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[Michael Finke]: know that you may have had a ninety percent chance of success the first year of
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[Michael Finke]: retirement but
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[Michael Finke]: back in the
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[Michael Finke]: that can go down to a sixty percentage chance of success that you’re going to be
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[Michael Finke]: able to maintain the same lifestyle if you have a two thousand eight occur and
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[Michael Finke]: that might
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[Michael Finke]: that gets into this idea of the
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[Michael Finke]: we
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[Michael Finke]: requirement of spending
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[Michael Finke]: like
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[Michael Finke]: flexibility if you have no safety net you have to be able to adjust your spending
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[Michael Finke]: downward if you want to maintain the same probability of success
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[Michael Finke]: and
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[Michael Finke]: you
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[Michael Finke]: there’s no getting around that you know people they just cling to
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[Michael Finke]: like
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[Michael Finke]: this idea that
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[Michael Finke]: he couldn’t
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[Michael Finke]: because you had a ninety percentage chance of success the first year of retirement
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[Michael Finke]: you always have a ninety percentage chance of success
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[Michael Finke]: the
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[Michael Finke]: but that changes every
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s still nice
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[Michael Finke]: day every day you’re a chance of being able to maintain a given income changes and
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[Michael Finke]: whatever
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[Michael Finke]: whatever asset prices were the first day of retirement which are very high
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[Michael Finke]: right
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[Michael Finke]: right now that’s irrelevant a year from now if you would have just waited a year
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[Michael Finke]: of retirement to retire and you went from a million dollars down to seven hundred
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[Michael Finke]: fifty thousand dollars
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[Michael Finke]: that
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[Michael Finke]: all of a sudden your four percent rule would be thirty thousand dollars instead of
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[Michael Finke]: forty thousand dollars
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[Michael Finke]: yeah i been thinking bi that
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[Michael Finke]: and i think it’s one of these ideas that people don’t give enough thought to that
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[Michael Finke]: if you want to maintain the same probability of success
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[Michael Finke]: your spending path has to be
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[Michael Finke]: why
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[Michael Finke]: widely variable that was a very long answer to what are you working on right now
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[Michael Finke]: but it’s one
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[Michael Finke]: what
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[Michael Finke]: of these things that i feel very passionate about that’s not discussed enough is
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[Michael Finke]: the requirement of spending variability if you have no safety net because you have
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[Michael Finke]: to avoid that worst possible outcome
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[Paul Tyler]: so i it’s interesting you mentioned control and expenses
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[Michael Finke]: so it’s interesting you mentioned control and expenses
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[Paul Tyler]: i listened to you know susie armon the other day on one of her our shows interest
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[Michael Finke]: i listened to you know susie arman the other day in one of her hour shows interest
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[Paul Tyler]: interesting i just really wanted to sort of catch up and hear what she’s doing and
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[Michael Finke]: interesting i just really wanted to sort of catch up and hear what she’s doing and
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[Paul Tyler]: michael her her advice always also seems to come back to yeah but
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[Michael Finke]: michael her her advice always seems to come back to yeah but
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[Paul Tyler]: you know lower your cost of lower expenses that is one thing i have in my own
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[Michael Finke]: you know lower your cost of lower expenses that is one thing i have in my own
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[Paul Tyler]: control
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[Michael Finke]: control
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[Paul Tyler]: is managing expenses down
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[Michael Finke]: is managing expenses down
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[Paul Tyler]: as you go into retirement a hard thing to do or is it easier is it natural do you
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[Michael Finke]: as you go into retirement a hard thing to do or is it easier is it natural do you
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[Paul Tyler]: have any sense of what that pattern looks like for a typical senior
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[Michael Finke]: have any sense of what that pattern looks like for a typical senior
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[Michael Finke]: well this is a great
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[Michael Finke]: but
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[Michael Finke]: question so i think at the beginning of retirement the first step needs to be to
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[Michael Finke]: look at your expenses and to identify which of those expenses is flexible and
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[Michael Finke]: which of those expenses is not flexible your property tax is clearly inflexible
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[Michael Finke]: your health care is inflexible paying for insurance on your car is inflexible all
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[Michael Finke]: of these expenses represent about
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[Michael Finke]: but
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[Michael Finke]: seventy percent of a retirees’ budget
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[Michael Finke]: and it does not make sense to fund those expenses using risky assets because you
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[Michael Finke]: cannot withstand a drop in value
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[Michael Finke]: but you can fund those expenses with safe assets so things like social security or
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[Michael Finke]: a pension or an annuity or maybe a bond ladder and here’s where it gets
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[Michael Finke]: interesting because if you fund it with a bond ladder versus an annuity we know
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[Michael Finke]: that you spend less each year or it requires more money up front you have to
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[Michael Finke]: allocate more money up front to fund those basic expenses now the second part of
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[Michael Finke]: the equation is the flexible expenses of those flexible expenses
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: how willing are you to cut back
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[Michael Finke]: okay
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[Michael Finke]: if markets don’t perform well
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[Michael Finke]: how about
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[Michael Finke]: and a lot of people they look at their gym membership and they say that well
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[Michael Finke]: that’s
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[Michael Finke]: what
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[Michael Finke]: not that flexible of an expense my vacations are not that flexible of inexpensive
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[Michael Finke]: my going out to dinner with friends is not that flexible of an expense therefore i
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[Michael Finke]: am not willing to adjust my spending significantly if markets don’t perform well
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[Michael Finke]: remember the whole point of taking investment risk is that you’re hoping to
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[Michael Finke]: get
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[Michael Finke]: good
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[Paul Tyler]: thank you
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[Michael Finke]: a higher return
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[Michael Finke]: but you have to accept risk in retirement what risk means is the possibility of
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[Michael Finke]: spending less so the question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to
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[Michael Finke]: accept the possibility of spending less on going out to dinner with friends in
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[Michael Finke]: order to
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[Michael Finke]: about
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[Michael Finke]: have on average more money to go out to dinner with
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: friends in the future that’s the trade off all retirees need to accept and anybody
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[Michael Finke]: who tries to say that you don’t have to make that trade off does not understand
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[Michael Finke]: the basic economic concept of risk risk is real if it wasn’t real we wouldn’t get
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[Michael Finke]: rewarded for taking it but it does mean that we have to be thinking about our
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[Michael Finke]: spending first when we’re developing a retirement income investment plan
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[Ramsey Smith]: so that’s a
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s it’s a concept that’s that’s very compelling and
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[Ramsey Smith]: there’s some interesting sort of second sort of in my mind two ways to look at it
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[Ramsey Smith]: obviously there’ the expenses that are clearly inflexible right so that the true
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[Ramsey Smith]: fixed costs and then there are others that that aren’t flexible um but for
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[Ramsey Smith]: personal utility reasons people want to treat them as as as is inflexible and why
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[Ramsey Smith]: i find that interesting is that that potentially opens up the use case for
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[Ramsey Smith]: annuities to a broader socioeconomic audience so maybe there are wealthier people
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[Ramsey Smith]: that that ultimately are determined that there is a lifestyle that they want to
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[Ramsey Smith]: lead
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[Ramsey Smith]: that again
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[Ramsey Smith]: there may be activities that aren’t absolutely necessary but they’ve decided for
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[Ramsey Smith]: sure they want to pursue them
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[Michael Finke]: well
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[Ramsey Smith]: and the question is should those sort of voluntary inflect i’ll call them
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[Michael Finke]: oh
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[Ramsey Smith]: voluntary and flexible expenses is there a use case for greater use of annuities
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[Ramsey Smith]: is for coverage of that part
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[Ramsey Smith]: of their income needs as well
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[Ramsey Smith]: i’m not sure if that’s part of the conversation but i’ve always thought that that
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[Ramsey Smith]: was another sort of additional use case
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[Michael Finke]: what is the weather i
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[Michael Finke]: when i interview retirees sometimes what i hear is
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[Michael Finke]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: they’re
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[Michael Finke]: very crowd
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[Michael Finke]: very proud of the fact that they’re not spending that much in retirement
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[Michael Finke]: yes
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[Michael Finke]: and
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[Michael Finke]: i
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[Michael Finke]: like
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[Michael Finke]: say great you know it’s great that you’re using coupons or going out to the two
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[Michael Finke]: for one dinner early you’re not taking too many vacations you’re not spending too
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[Michael Finke]: much money you must really want to give more money to your kids
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[Michael Finke]: and then what i very often hear is
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[Ramsey Smith]: hey
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[Michael Finke]: no well you know they have plenty of money i i help them pay for their education
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[Michael Finke]: they make more money than i ever did and then there is this silence this sort of
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[Michael Finke]: see
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[Michael Finke]: realization that there’s only two places your money can go in retirement you can
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[Michael Finke]: either give it to other people
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[Michael Finke]: or you can spend it to live better now spending it to live better could mean
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[Michael Finke]: spending it on fun stuff it can it can mean giving money to a grandkid to help
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[Michael Finke]: them with something that they want to be able to do
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[Michael Finke]: like
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[Michael Finke]: but it’s still spending and you know it’s it’s the the the objective no matter how
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[Michael Finke]: much money you have is what plan can i use that will allow me for the portion of
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[Michael Finke]: my wealth that i want to devote to my lifestyle how much what
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[Michael Finke]: what
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[Michael Finke]: what what
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[Michael Finke]: strategy can i use that’s going to allow me to spend the most money every year and
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[Paul Tyler]: or something
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[Michael Finke]: the big
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[Michael Finke]: big mar
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[Michael Finke]: barrier is that you don’t know how long you’re going to live and you don’t know
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[Michael Finke]: the returns you’re going to receive on your investments therefore
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[Michael Finke]: optimally you’ll cut back you won’t spend as much because you want to avoid the
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[Michael Finke]: risk of potentially
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[Michael Finke]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: running out it’s like if you’re in a circus and they take away the safety net
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[Michael Finke]: you’re not going to take as many risks because the downside is far worse but if
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[Michael Finke]: you can somehow take away the risk of that potential downside from living too long
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[Michael Finke]: or getting bad investment returns that frees you up to spend more money especially
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[Michael Finke]: when the money can do the most good in terms of your lifestyle in your sixty
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[Michael Finke]: seconds and seventy seconds when your physical and cognitive abilities are
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[Michael Finke]: sharpest as opposed to you know in your ninety seconds when you know so how many
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[Michael Finke]: people do you see that end up in their nineties with more money than they can ever
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[Michael Finke]: spend and in essence what they’ve done is they’ve been overly cautious especially
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[Michael Finke]: if they don’t have a strong motive to give the money to someone else you know they
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[Michael Finke]: at the last minute that they could have lived better but they didn’t because of
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[Michael Finke]: that potential fear and you know
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[Michael Finke]: annuitity the whole point of it is let’s take away that source of risk to free you
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[Michael Finke]: think
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[Michael Finke]: up to be able to spend more especially when you can enjoy the money the most
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[Paul Tyler]: so how many retirement plans michael do you think a retiree actually needs i mean
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[Michael Finke]: so how many retirement plans michael do you think a retiree actually
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[Michael Finke]: mm hm
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[Michael Finke]: needs i mean again back to sort of rules of thumb well meet with ramsay your
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[Paul Tyler]: again back to sort of rules of thumb well meet with ramsey your advisor once a
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[Michael Finke]: advisor once a year once a quarter review how your portfolio is going
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[Paul Tyler]: year once a quarter review how your portfolio is going
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[Michael Finke]: oh
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[Paul Tyler]: sounds to me like there may be three major you maybe you’re redoing your plan in a
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[Michael Finke]: sounds to me like there may be three major you may maybe you’re you’re redoing
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[Michael Finke]: your plan in a significant
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[Michael Finke]: oh
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[Paul Tyler]: significant way what three times four times in the course of retirement do you
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[Michael Finke]: way what three times four times in the course of retirement do you have any sense
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[Paul Tyler]: have any sense at how
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[Michael Finke]: at how many how this actually works in practice with retirees who say you yeah
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[Paul Tyler]: how this actually works in practice with retirees who say you yeah i
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[Paul Tyler]: i i will end up with too much money and my kids don’t need it so why am i why am i
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[Michael Finke]: i i end up with too much money and my kids don’t need it so why am i pinching
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[Paul Tyler]: pinching pennies here i want i wanna go on the vacation
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[Michael Finke]: pennies here i want i wanna go on the vacation
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[Michael Finke]: well you know ideally
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[Michael Finke]: it
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[Michael Finke]: if technology advances enough
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[Michael Finke]: yes
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[Michael Finke]: and you know this may
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[Michael Finke]: he
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[Michael Finke]: not be something that requires constant meetings because you’re going to be given
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[Michael Finke]: the information you need to guide you towards making the right decisions your
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[Michael Finke]: portfolio is going to be automatically rebalanced you are going to have that
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[Michael Finke]: protection you’re going to have an idea a guideline about how much you can safely
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[Michael Finke]: spend
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[Michael Finke]: then you know part of the value of going to advisor obviously is well beyond the
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[Michael Finke]: retirement income plan it is
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[Michael Finke]: first of all
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[Michael Finke]: i
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[Michael Finke]: deciding how much you want to pass on to others what is the most efficient way to
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[Michael Finke]: do that how much you want to spend what is the most efficient way to do that
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[Michael Finke]: adjusting along the way
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[Paul Tyler]: eight
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[Michael Finke]: having a voice of comfort so that you don’t freak out when markets fall these are
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[Michael Finke]: all the things that advisors provide tax efficiency understanding rds all the rest
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[Michael Finke]: of it now there’s a huge amount of value that an advisor provides but when it
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[Michael Finke]: comes to the retirement income aspect ideally you put it on autopilot and i think
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[Michael Finke]: one of the reasons why you want to put it on
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[Paul Tyler]: that’s true
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[Michael Finke]: autopilot is that especially as you get to your eighty seconds and ninety seconds
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[Michael Finke]: your you ability to manage an investment portfolio
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[Michael Finke]: is not the same as it was in your sixty second and seventies and decide how much
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[Michael Finke]: you can safely withdraw from that investment portfolio
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[Michael Finke]: it’s good to have professional help to do that not everybody has access to that
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[Michael Finke]: kind of professional help
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[Michael Finke]: for them what i’m hoping is that we eventually get to a point where people first
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[Michael Finke]: of all don’t have to worry about running out of money and second of all have a
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[Michael Finke]: clearer idea of how much they can
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[Paul Tyler]: what
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[Michael Finke]: spend every year
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[Ramsey Smith]: fascinating
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[Ramsey Smith]: so
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[Ramsey Smith]: one of the um one of the other things that uh that you’ve been talking about
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[Ramsey Smith]: recently uh is a social security claiming and you’ve also been talking about
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[Ramsey Smith]: contingent deferred annuities why we start with social security claiming what it
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[Ramsey Smith]: it’s a a it’s a topic that is as often as it’s discussed it is not a it’s not
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[Ramsey Smith]: knowledge that is widely as dispersed among consumers as one would hope or imagine
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[Ramsey Smith]: so tell us a little bit about how you approach that discussion and how you help
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[Ramsey Smith]: educate consumers and frankly advisors on the importance of this
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[Michael Finke]: first of all social security is an annuity you know
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[Michael Finke]: it fun
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[Michael Finke]: for anybody who says they hate annuities well then you must really hate social
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[Michael Finke]: security
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[Michael Finke]: but as it turns out a lot of people like their social security so the idea of
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[Michael Finke]: getting an income
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[Michael Finke]: every month for life
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[Paul Tyler]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: is actually not such a bad thing to have in retirement essentially that is what an
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[Michael Finke]: annuity is and when you think about it as an annuity by delaying claiming for a
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[Michael Finke]: year what you’re doing is you’re giving up the amount of money that you could have
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[Michael Finke]: gotten between say sixty two and sixty three and you’re getting a higher income
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[Michael Finke]: every year in retirement
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[Paul Tyler]: i think
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[Michael Finke]: that begins at age sixty three and then last as long as you’re alive and the way
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[Michael Finke]: that we calculate the value of that income stream is we estimate what it would
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[Michael Finke]: cost to buy that income stream in the future in a low interest rate environment
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[Michael Finke]: that costs a lot and then we look at the likelihood that you’re going to be alive
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[Michael Finke]: at a given age and we’re especially focused on the kind of people that would
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[Michael Finke]: listen to this show who actually have made the biggest gains in longevity over the
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[Michael Finke]: last twenty or thirty years so
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[Michael Finke]: men in the top tenth percentile of income have gained six years of longevity over
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[Michael Finke]: the last twenty five years or so that’s one of the most interesting phenomenon
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[Michael Finke]: that’s happened in the united states is that
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[Michael Finke]: especially higher income men and women but higher income men especially because
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[Michael Finke]: they’re not doing stupid things that they used to do and in the
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[Michael Finke]: sixties and seventies they’re not smoking they’re not you know they’re taking
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[Paul Tyler]: they get it
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[Michael Finke]: better care of themselves they’re eating better they’re exercising for whatever
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[Michael Finke]: reason they’re living longer uh women as well so women who earn more money live
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[Michael Finke]: longer on average they’ve gained about three years and so when we’re estimating
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[Michael Finke]: the value of delayed claiming we now use these updated mortality tables and
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[Michael Finke]: remember the formula that you use to estimate the benefit from delayed claiming
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[Michael Finke]: was actually created in the one thousand nine hundred eighty seconds when people
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[Michael Finke]: were not living as long and when real interests rates were higher than they are
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[Michael Finke]: today so those delayed claiming rules are wrong
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[Michael Finke]: it means that the actuarial value from delayed claiming is significant and a lot
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[Michael Finke]: man
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[Michael Finke]: of people think they’re sticking it to the government by claiming it sixty two
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[Michael Finke]: well in fact it’s the exact opposite the government is sticking it to you if you
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[Michael Finke]: claim at age sixty two
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[Michael Finke]: the
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[Michael Finke]: yeah
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[Michael Finke]: other thing that we’ve noticed is that the delayed claiming rules are tiered in
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[Michael Finke]: other words the percentage increase in income that you get from delaying between
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[Michael Finke]: sixty two and sixty three is five percent but between sixty four sixty three and
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[Michael Finke]: sixty four it’s six and two thirds percent per year and then between sixty six and
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[Michael Finke]: sixty seven it goes up to eight percent per year and when you actually back out
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[Michael Finke]: the benefit the present value benefit that you get
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[Michael Finke]: the biggest benefit you get is from waiting between sixty seven and sixty eight
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00:19:02,617 –> 00:19:07,897
[Michael Finke]: why because that’s the first year of the eight percent bump in income and that
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[Michael Finke]: means that you know by just waiting between sixty seven and sixty eight you have
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[Michael Finke]: almost the same expected longevity but your income is so much higher that the
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[Michael Finke]: present value of that bump is you know as high as twenty thousand dollars for a
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[Michael Finke]: healthy woman and it’s significant for a healthy man as well and if you’re healthy
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[Michael Finke]: every year you delay claiming has a positive net present value is it if you’re
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[Michael Finke]: buying an annuity that is priced below market it is pretty much the best deal that
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[Michael Finke]: you can get from buying annuitity is from delayed claiming of social security so
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[Michael Finke]: we recommend to everybody who is healthy that they delay claiming again because
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[Michael Finke]: the rules are meant to be actly fair but in fact they’re not
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[Michael Finke]: because they’re old
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[Paul Tyler]: snacks
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[Michael Finke]: they’re stale they’re probably going to get changed at some point but if you can
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[Michael Finke]: delay claiming now it’s definitely in your best interest now annuities are priced
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[Michael Finke]: the exact same way or at least the simple fixed annuity products are priced the
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[Michael Finke]: same way it’s simply a matter of multiplying the probability that you’re going to
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[Michael Finke]: be alive at a given age by the present value of buying that income in the future
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[Michael Finke]: and that’s one of the reasons why especially late life annuitity is so cheap so
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[Michael Finke]: buying an income late in life is so cheap because when you multiply the present
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[Michael Finke]: value of the cost of an insurance company guaranteeing an income starting say at
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[Michael Finke]: the age of eighty five well there’s you know a relatively and certainly not one
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[Michael Finke]: hundred percent chance that you’re going to be alive at the age of eighty five and
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[Michael Finke]: the probability of being alive goes down every year after that so you can buy a
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[Michael Finke]: pretty significant income for a relatively modest amount of your savings through
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[Michael Finke]: some kind of a deferred income annuity and of course i’m a huge fan of the
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[Michael Finke]: qualified longevity annuity contracts the q lax because they take away a lot of
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[Michael Finke]: that longevity risk for a relatively modest price and that’s what’s known as
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[Michael Finke]: mortality credits if you try to do it without an annuity then you would have to
429
00:21:10,537 –> 00:21:14,697
[Michael Finke]: set aside so much money today let’s say you wanted to make sure that your money
430
00:21:14,777 –> 00:21:18,377
[Michael Finke]: lasted to the age of one hundred which is realistic if you were a healthy woman
431
00:21:18,457 –> 00:21:21,497
[Michael Finke]: you still have a nine percent chance that you’re going to live beyond the age of
432
00:21:21,577 –> 00:21:25,977
[Michael Finke]: one hundred so let’s say you only want a ten percent chance of failure you have to
433
00:21:26,057 –> 00:21:28,137
[Michael Finke]: build the bond ladder up to the age of one hundred
434
00:21:29,337 –> 00:21:34,137
[Michael Finke]: it may be three or four times as expensive to do that as opposed to buying a late
435
00:21:34,217 –> 00:21:38,697
[Michael Finke]: life annuity in which case you can way that risk at a relatively low price you
436
00:21:38,777 –> 00:21:42,617
[Michael Finke]: have more money available to spend early on in retirement you can live better you
437
00:21:42,697 –> 00:21:46,537
[Michael Finke]: can spend more with less risk and that’s one of the advantages of annuities it
438
00:21:46,617 –> 00:21:50,297
[Michael Finke]: sounds like you’re a salesperson it’s like you get something for nothing but in
439
00:21:50,377 –> 00:21:54,697
[Michael Finke]: fact you do get something for nothing you can spend more and you’re at less risk
440
00:21:54,857 –> 00:21:56,217
[Michael Finke]: of potentially running out
441
00:21:57,337 –> 00:22:01,177
[Michael Finke]: when you pool some of your retirement savings with other retirees and have it
442
00:22:01,257 –> 00:22:04,697
[Michael Finke]: managed by an insurance company or the federal government in the case of social
443
00:22:04,477 –> 00:22:05,477
[Michael Finke]: security
444
00:22:05,600 –> 00:22:08,320
[Paul Tyler]: okay i’m about to throw a curve ball here which is
445
00:22:05,623 –> 00:22:08,343
[Michael Finke]: okay i’m about to throw a curve ball here which is
446
00:22:10,000 –> 00:22:15,680
[Paul Tyler]: how much does the math and the risk calculus change based on events over the last
447
00:22:10,103 –> 00:22:12,263
[Michael Finke]: how much does the math and
448
00:22:11,837 –> 00:22:12,837
[Michael Finke]: co
449
00:22:12,343 –> 00:22:17,143
[Michael Finke]: the risk calculus change based on events over the last couple of years and i’ll
450
00:22:15,840 –> 00:22:19,920
[Paul Tyler]: couple of years and i’ll throw some provocative statements at one is yeah delay
451
00:22:17,223 –> 00:22:21,063
[Michael Finke]: throw some provocative statements at one is yeah delay social security because
452
00:22:20,080 –> 00:22:22,720
[Paul Tyler]: social security because everybody’s living longer well actually
453
00:22:21,143 –> 00:22:22,823
[Michael Finke]: everybody’s living longer well actually
454
00:22:24,160 –> 00:22:29,280
[Paul Tyler]: mortality tables reversed last year with covid and you know your statement you
455
00:22:24,183 –> 00:22:29,303
[Michael Finke]: mortality tables reversed last year with covid and you know your statement you
456
00:22:29,280 –> 00:22:33,200
[Paul Tyler]: know michael if you’re healthy well a lot of people who are sick looks or had
457
00:22:29,303 –> 00:22:33,223
[Michael Finke]: know michael if you’re healthy well a lot of people who are sick it looks or had
458
00:22:33,360 –> 00:22:38,320
[Paul Tyler]: covid looks like they’re experiencing some longer term health problem so hm that’s
459
00:22:33,383 –> 00:22:38,423
[Michael Finke]: covid looks like they’re experiencing some longer term health problems so that’s
460
00:22:38,480 –> 00:22:39,920
[Paul Tyler]: one another one is well let’s
461
00:22:38,503 –> 00:22:39,943
[Michael Finke]: one another one is well let’s
462
00:22:40,763 –> 00:22:41,763
[Michael Finke]: you know not not
463
00:22:41,600 –> 00:22:42,720
[Paul Tyler]: not necessarily yours but
464
00:22:41,643 –> 00:22:42,643
[Michael Finke]: not necessarily yours
465
00:22:42,157 –> 00:22:43,157
[Michael Finke]: four
466
00:22:42,743 –> 00:22:44,023
[Michael Finke]: but you know
467
00:22:44,400 –> 00:22:48,400
[Paul Tyler]: take money out of the equity market put into bonds some other people in the market
468
00:22:44,423 –> 00:22:48,023
[Michael Finke]: take money out of the equity market put into bonds some other you know people in
469
00:22:48,023 –> 00:22:52,663
[Michael Finke]: the in the market are saying that well look at the credit risk you know ramsey
470
00:22:48,720 –> 00:22:52,720
[Paul Tyler]: are saying that well look at the credit risk you know ramsey from
471
00:22:52,283 –> 00:22:53,283
[Michael Finke]: from
472
00:22:53,920 –> 00:22:57,520
[Paul Tyler]: you know half the world defaulting effectively right on
473
00:22:54,023 –> 00:22:57,543
[Michael Finke]: you know half the world defaulting effectively right on
474
00:22:58,720 –> 00:23:02,240
[Paul Tyler]: you know on some of their bonds what does that do michael to some of these
475
00:22:59,383 –> 00:23:02,823
[Michael Finke]: on some of their bonds what does that do michael to some of these with their all
476
00:23:02,320 –> 00:23:03,760
[Paul Tyler]: withdrawal right assumptions
477
00:23:02,883 –> 00:23:03,883
[Michael Finke]: right assumptions
478
00:23:04,880 –> 00:23:10,160
[Paul Tyler]: diversify your portfolio let’s you know yes you put money in the u s but spread it
479
00:23:04,983 –> 00:23:10,823
[Michael Finke]: diversify your portfolio’s yes you put money in the u s but spread internationally
480
00:23:10,240 –> 00:23:14,240
[Paul Tyler]: internationally we’re starting to see almost a bifurcation of economies you know
481
00:23:11,143 –> 00:23:15,143
[Michael Finke]: you know we’re starting to see almost a bifurcation of economies you know given
482
00:23:14,480 –> 00:23:17,680
[Paul Tyler]: if given what’s sort of where we’re seeing the world
483
00:23:14,957 –> 00:23:15,957
[Michael Finke]: oh
484
00:23:15,283 –> 00:23:16,283
[Michael Finke]: what’s sort of
485
00:23:15,780 –> 00:23:16,780
[Ramsey Smith]: oh
486
00:23:16,743 –> 00:23:17,783
[Michael Finke]: where we’re seeing the world
487
00:23:18,880 –> 00:23:22,640
[Paul Tyler]: get pushed with this war and oh yeah the really ugly one that everybody’s looking
488
00:23:18,903 –> 00:23:22,583
[Michael Finke]: get pushed with this war and then oh yeah the really ugly one that everybody’s
489
00:23:22,663 –> 00:23:25,943
[Michael Finke]: looking as inflation so michael is this just
490
00:23:22,880 –> 00:23:24,880
[Paul Tyler]: as inflation so michael
491
00:23:24,797 –> 00:23:25,797
[Michael Finke]: like
492
00:23:25,260 –> 00:23:26,260
[Paul Tyler]: is this just uh
493
00:23:25,997 –> 00:23:26,997
[Michael Finke]: just
494
00:23:26,880 –> 00:23:30,960
[Paul Tyler]: is this the one of those bumps you just described you know i’m in retirement i see
495
00:23:26,880 –> 00:23:30,960
[Paul Tyler]: is this the one of those bumps you just described you know i’m in retirement i see
496
00:23:26,983 –> 00:23:30,983
[Michael Finke]: is this the one of those bumps you just described you know i’m in retirement i see
497
00:23:31,040 –> 00:23:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: a bump and you know guess what you survive it manage the expenses you can survive
498
00:23:31,040 –> 00:23:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: a bump and you know guess what you survive it manage the expenses you can survive
499
00:23:31,063 –> 00:23:33,143
[Michael Finke]: a bump and guess what you survive it
500
00:23:33,680 –> 00:23:34,800
[Ramsey Smith]: movies pretty
501
00:23:33,703 –> 00:23:36,743
[Michael Finke]: manage the expenses you can survive it or
502
00:23:36,397 –> 00:23:37,397
[Michael Finke]: like
503
00:23:36,400 –> 00:23:40,800
[Paul Tyler]: it or do you see a fundamental shift in how you start to approach long term
504
00:23:36,400 –> 00:23:40,800
[Paul Tyler]: it or do you see a fundamental shift in how you start to approach long term
505
00:23:36,903 –> 00:23:41,623
[Michael Finke]: do you see a fundamental shift in how you start to approach long term planning for
506
00:23:41,120 –> 00:23:42,800
[Paul Tyler]: planning for the next ten fifteen years
507
00:23:41,120 –> 00:23:42,800
[Paul Tyler]: planning for the next ten fifteen years
508
00:23:41,703 –> 00:23:42,823
[Michael Finke]: the next ten fifteen years
509
00:23:43,897 –> 00:23:49,337
[Michael Finke]: you know it’s it’s a great point like we retirees did not realize that they were
510
00:23:49,497 –> 00:23:53,337
[Michael Finke]: exposed to this risk of a pandemic a lot of scientists understood that that risk
511
00:23:53,477 –> 00:23:54,477
[Michael Finke]: was a possibility
512
00:23:56,057 –> 00:24:00,057
[Michael Finke]: they face that in retirement now if they’ve gotten through it and assuming that
513
00:24:01,177 –> 00:24:02,297
[Michael Finke]: the pandemic is
514
00:24:01,940 –> 00:24:02,940
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
515
00:24:02,457 –> 00:24:07,817
[Michael Finke]: on its way out everybody else now is facing the same expected longevity that they
516
00:24:07,897 –> 00:24:11,657
[Michael Finke]: had before covid so for them it didn’t really make that much of a difference
517
00:24:12,137 –> 00:24:18,617
[Michael Finke]: obviously it has a effect on on overall longevity unfortunately you know some
518
00:24:18,697 –> 00:24:20,697
[Michael Finke]: people who had expected to live longer did not
519
00:24:21,737 –> 00:24:24,857
[Michael Finke]: but you’re still exposed to that same longevity risk
520
00:24:26,057 –> 00:24:31,817
[Michael Finke]: you know and your job when you’re planning for retirement is to address the risks
521
00:24:32,057 –> 00:24:37,017
[Michael Finke]: that you’re aware of and do it in in an efficient fashion but there is always
522
00:24:37,177 –> 00:24:40,217
[Michael Finke]: going to risks that you’re not aware of i mean that’s just part of
523
00:24:42,137 –> 00:24:46,217
[Michael Finke]: the game that you play in financial markets and just being a human being we all
524
00:24:46,377 –> 00:24:49,897
[Michael Finke]: face a certain amount of risks that we cannot anticipate and so maybe
525
00:24:49,700 –> 00:24:50,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
526
00:24:50,137 –> 00:24:55,337
[Michael Finke]: part of that risk is the possibility that bond markets crash maybe part of that
527
00:24:55,497 –> 00:24:59,897
[Michael Finke]: risk is the possibility that equity markets also fall or that the dollar loses
528
00:24:59,977 –> 00:25:05,257
[Michael Finke]: value or that inflation goes up those are all things that we have to face we are
529
00:25:05,337 –> 00:25:07,097
[Michael Finke]: aware of those risks we try
530
00:25:06,843 –> 00:25:07,843
[Michael Finke]: what do you
531
00:25:07,177 –> 00:25:12,857
[Michael Finke]: to address them as best we can but the only way to respond to risks that we’re not
532
00:25:12,917 –> 00:25:13,917
[Michael Finke]: aware of is to
533
00:25:13,977 –> 00:25:18,217
[Michael Finke]: recognize that we can be overconfident about the lifestyle that we expect to lead
534
00:25:14,043 –> 00:25:15,043
[Michael Finke]: i have
535
00:25:18,357 –> 00:25:19,357
[Michael Finke]: and to
536
00:25:18,603 –> 00:25:19,603
[Michael Finke]: better
537
00:25:19,097 –> 00:25:22,377
[Michael Finke]: build a certain amount of slack into that lifestyle to account
538
00:25:22,043 –> 00:25:23,043
[Michael Finke]: yeah
539
00:25:22,537 –> 00:25:25,497
[Michael Finke]: for the possibility that there may be risks that we don’t anticipate
540
00:25:26,697 –> 00:25:31,897
[Michael Finke]: one of those risks that i think david blanchett and wade fou and i have been
541
00:25:31,977 –> 00:25:37,017
[Michael Finke]: thinking about for a long time is the risk of united states equities and
542
00:25:37,837 –> 00:25:38,837
[Michael Finke]: a lot of people
543
00:25:39,897 –> 00:25:44,297
[Michael Finke]: almost have a religious belief that united states equities are going to continue
544
00:25:44,777 –> 00:25:49,737
[Michael Finke]: to provide ten to twelve percent return indefinitely in retirement and if you can
545
00:25:49,897 –> 00:25:54,297
[Michael Finke]: just wait it out if equities go down in value then everything’s going to be okay
546
00:25:54,357 –> 00:25:55,357
[Michael Finke]: in the long run
547
00:25:56,457 –> 00:26:01,257
[Michael Finke]: this fervent belief that we are all entitled to what’s known as an equity risk
548
00:26:01,497 –> 00:26:05,977
[Michael Finke]: premium in other words a higher return from stos for than from bonds can get
549
00:26:06,137 –> 00:26:10,857
[Michael Finke]: people in trouble as well because there is no guarantee and especially as
550
00:26:10,937 –> 00:26:14,297
[Michael Finke]: expensive as stock prices have been in recent years
551
00:26:15,897 –> 00:26:19,497
[Michael Finke]: historically when stocks are this expensive they simply don’t perform that well
552
00:26:20,937 –> 00:26:26,217
[Michael Finke]: over a long term time horizon that’s a risk we’re aware of and if you’re not
553
00:26:26,297 –> 00:26:30,297
[Michael Finke]: building that risk into your retirement income plan the possibility that equities
554
00:26:30,377 –> 00:26:34,857
[Michael Finke]: are not going to bail you out then you may end up in trouble and let me just give
555
00:26:34,637 –> 00:26:35,637
[Michael Finke]: you as an example
556
00:26:36,537 –> 00:26:41,337
[Michael Finke]: if you look at remember the four percent rule concept is based on this idea that
557
00:26:41,417 –> 00:26:46,137
[Michael Finke]: your spending goes up every year in order to match inflation of course inflation
558
00:26:46,217 –> 00:26:48,297
[Michael Finke]: is its own video syncretic risk
559
00:26:49,437 –> 00:26:50,437
[Michael Finke]: so
560
00:26:52,457 –> 00:26:55,017
[Michael Finke]: you can buy what’s known as a treasury inflation
561
00:26:55,083 –> 00:26:56,083
[Michael Finke]: man
562
00:26:55,177 –> 00:27:00,377
[Michael Finke]: protected security as a way of getting rid of that inflation risk but if you do
563
00:27:00,457 –> 00:27:04,537
[Michael Finke]: that and you follow the four for percent rule then at today’s low treasury
564
00:27:04,697 –> 00:27:06,937
[Michael Finke]: inflation protected security rates you’re going
565
00:27:06,603 –> 00:27:07,603
[Michael Finke]: that was
566
00:27:06,937 –> 00:27:12,057
[Michael Finke]: to run out of money at about age eighty seven so you’re relying on the stock
567
00:27:12,377 –> 00:27:13,897
[Michael Finke]: portion of your portfolio
568
00:27:15,017 –> 00:27:20,297
[Michael Finke]: drag your investment portfolio beyond the age of eighty seven so that you can
569
00:27:20,457 –> 00:27:25,497
[Michael Finke]: continue to spend four percent after inflation every year but there’s no guarantee
570
00:27:25,497 –> 00:27:28,857
[Michael Finke]: that it is going to do that and it could do that on average but if you get unlucky
571
00:27:28,937 –> 00:27:32,937
[Michael Finke]: the first ten years of retirement you may not have much of an equity portfolio
572
00:27:33,097 –> 00:27:39,497
[Michael Finke]: left so you’re putting a lot of weight on that equity risk premium to provide
573
00:27:39,977 –> 00:27:45,017
[Michael Finke]: safety that it simply cannot by definition provide because risk is real it would
574
00:27:45,177 –> 00:27:47,737
[Michael Finke]: not be compensated again if it weren’t real
575
00:27:50,683 –> 00:27:51,683
[Michael Finke]: you have
576
00:27:53,360 –> 00:27:56,720
[Ramsey Smith]: so uh first of all super commentary
577
00:27:57,760 –> 00:28:02,400
[Ramsey Smith]: i have to say we’ve had i’m just gonna go back quickly to to your comments on
578
00:28:02,480 –> 00:28:05,680
[Ramsey Smith]: social security we’ve talked about it a lot on this show but you’re the first
579
00:28:05,580 –> 00:28:06,580
[Ramsey Smith]: person to
580
00:28:06,523 –> 00:28:07,523
[Michael Finke]: yeah
581
00:28:07,680 –> 00:28:10,560
[Ramsey Smith]: break down the pv benefit sort of
582
00:28:10,580 –> 00:28:11,580
[Paul Tyler]: man
583
00:28:10,683 –> 00:28:11,683
[Michael Finke]: man
584
00:28:11,600 –> 00:28:13,440
[Ramsey Smith]: in those specific tiers that is
585
00:28:14,720 –> 00:28:17,600
[Ramsey Smith]: that is actually very helpful very helpful perspective there
586
00:28:19,920 –> 00:28:24,080
[Ramsey Smith]: so one other one other area that you’ve been focusing on
587
00:28:25,360 –> 00:28:27,680
[Ramsey Smith]: is contingent deferred annuities
588
00:28:28,260 –> 00:28:29,260
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
589
00:28:28,640 –> 00:28:31,840
[Ramsey Smith]: want to hear what your thoughts are on those do you think that that’s something
590
00:28:32,000 –> 00:28:33,040
[Ramsey Smith]: that that should be
591
00:28:34,320 –> 00:28:38,080
[Ramsey Smith]: uh more un offered do you think people are ready for them do you think you think
592
00:28:38,160 –> 00:28:40,640
[Ramsey Smith]: that advisors and consumers will understand them
593
00:28:42,617 –> 00:28:47,577
[Michael Finke]: well let’s say that you have a client and you’re you know you were a strong
594
00:28:47,817 –> 00:28:53,977
[Michael Finke]: adherent in the four percentage rule and the client comes to you and you tell them
595
00:28:54,137 –> 00:28:58,217
[Michael Finke]: that you can withdraw four percent after inflation every year from your investment
596
00:28:58,377 –> 00:29:01,417
[Michael Finke]: portfolio and you’re probably going to be okay and then you say well what does
597
00:29:01,497 –> 00:29:04,937
[Michael Finke]: probably mean well you’ve got a ninety percentage chance of success according to a
598
00:29:04,937 –> 00:29:09,657
[Michael Finke]: monte carlo model that uses historical returns and you say well what if returns
599
00:29:09,737 –> 00:29:10,777
[Michael Finke]: aren’t what they have been
600
00:29:10,763 –> 00:29:11,763
[Michael Finke]: yeah
601
00:29:11,017 –> 00:29:13,897
[Michael Finke]: historically what if we get unlucky what if we end up like japan
602
00:29:15,317 –> 00:29:16,317
[Michael Finke]: will you
603
00:29:17,417 –> 00:29:22,217
[Michael Finke]: provide a backstop will you continue to pay my income if i do what you tell me to
604
00:29:22,297 –> 00:29:25,417
[Michael Finke]: do if i follow the four percent rule and i live to age
605
00:29:25,140 –> 00:29:26,140
[Paul Tyler]: my
606
00:29:25,657 –> 00:29:28,697
[Michael Finke]: ninety and all of a sudden i don’t have any money left
607
00:29:28,980 –> 00:29:29,980
[Paul Tyler]: red
608
00:29:29,083 –> 00:29:30,083
[Michael Finke]: yeah
609
00:29:29,277 –> 00:29:30,277
[Michael Finke]: then
610
00:29:30,857 –> 00:29:36,617
[Michael Finke]: will you continue to send me a check and the advisor will say no i’m not gonna
611
00:29:36,857 –> 00:29:38,297
[Michael Finke]: take that liability and i’m
612
00:29:37,860 –> 00:29:38,860
[Paul Tyler]: i
613
00:29:38,237 –> 00:29:39,237
[Michael Finke]: not going to take that risk
614
00:29:40,617 –> 00:29:45,577
[Michael Finke]: and then the client says well why not you just told me that there was no risk to
615
00:29:45,737 –> 00:29:49,737
[Michael Finke]: following the for four percent rule why are you not willing to follow that up with
616
00:29:50,137 –> 00:29:54,617
[Michael Finke]: some sort of insurance to protect me so that i can feel comfortable spending my
617
00:29:54,697 –> 00:29:58,857
[Michael Finke]: money every year in retirement without the possibility without thinking in the
618
00:29:58,937 –> 00:30:03,497
[Michael Finke]: back of my mind that if i spend too much i could potentially run out of money
619
00:30:03,163 –> 00:30:04,163
[Michael Finke]: she
620
00:30:04,617 –> 00:30:11,177
[Michael Finke]: well that’s what a contingent deferred annuity is it is portfolio income insurance
621
00:30:12,057 –> 00:30:14,937
[Michael Finke]: is the backstop and of course it’s going to cost money
622
00:30:14,523 –> 00:30:15,523
[Michael Finke]: what
623
00:30:15,177 –> 00:30:17,337
[Michael Finke]: because your advisor is not going to give it to you for free
624
00:30:16,900 –> 00:30:17,900
[Paul Tyler]: know
625
00:30:17,517 –> 00:30:18,517
[Michael Finke]: he’s he’s
626
00:30:17,963 –> 00:30:18,963
[Michael Finke]: i
627
00:30:18,377 –> 00:30:23,337
[Michael Finke]: not gonna say he or she is not going to say i will write a check out of my own
628
00:30:23,497 –> 00:30:29,977
[Michael Finke]: account if you run out of money and i will continue to provide that income for you
629
00:30:30,377 –> 00:30:37,897
[Michael Finke]: in retirement now sometimes i hear advisors or advising companies say that the
630
00:30:38,137 –> 00:30:43,017
[Michael Finke]: insurance expense that people pay to provide that backstop is a fee
631
00:30:44,057 –> 00:30:45,977
[Michael Finke]: well it’s not a fee it’s
632
00:30:45,780 –> 00:30:46,780
[Paul Tyler]: what
633
00:30:46,217 –> 00:30:53,577
[Michael Finke]: insurance so you you’re paying for an insurance premium whether it be for a uh for
634
00:30:53,657 –> 00:30:58,777
[Michael Finke]: the cost of receiving a guaranteed minimum withdrawal benefit from your investment
635
00:30:58,937 –> 00:31:03,177
[Michael Finke]: portfolio or this new thing which is a contingent deferred annuity which is
636
00:31:03,337 –> 00:31:06,777
[Michael Finke]: entirely separate from your investment portfolio so you’re managing your
637
00:31:06,937 –> 00:31:10,217
[Michael Finke]: investments but then you have this insurance product that’s tacked onto it that
638
00:31:10,217 –> 00:31:12,377
[Michael Finke]: you’re gonna have to pay a fee for but
639
00:31:12,343 –> 00:31:13,463
[Michael Finke]: what okay
640
00:31:13,497 –> 00:31:19,097
[Michael Finke]: that fee allows you to spend money from your investment portfolio free from the
641
00:31:19,257 –> 00:31:24,697
[Michael Finke]: worry that if markets tank and you live too long you are not going to be able to
642
00:31:24,777 –> 00:31:26,377
[Michael Finke]: maintain your lifestyle
643
00:31:26,603 –> 00:31:27,603
[Michael Finke]: but that
644
00:31:26,937 –> 00:31:30,137
[Michael Finke]: now that’s something that i think as you know someone who comes from the
645
00:31:29,883 –> 00:31:30,883
[Michael Finke]: right
646
00:31:30,077 –> 00:31:31,077
[Michael Finke]: ria community
647
00:31:32,217 –> 00:31:33,577
[Michael Finke]: i didn’t give enough thought to
648
00:31:34,423 –> 00:31:35,863
[Michael Finke]: but you don’t have any
649
00:31:34,457 –> 00:31:38,697
[Michael Finke]: but if you don’t have an answer to that question if you’re not willing to provide
650
00:31:38,777 –> 00:31:43,737
[Michael Finke]: the backstop and if your client wants the backstop then you have to consider
651
00:31:45,017 –> 00:31:50,777
[Michael Finke]: buying portfolio income insurance now it’s not cheap but’s not expensive either
652
00:31:51,817 –> 00:31:56,617
[Michael Finke]: so in the sense that it may not be much more than what you’re charging for asset
653
00:31:56,777 –> 00:32:00,217
[Michael Finke]: center management fees the insurance company is willing to take on that risk what
654
00:32:00,297 –> 00:32:02,617
[Michael Finke]: does the insurance company do will they put the money into
655
00:32:03,817 –> 00:32:08,297
[Michael Finke]: a general account portfolio and safe investments they might buy hedging
656
00:32:09,177 –> 00:32:10,377
[Michael Finke]: instruments they might buy
657
00:32:10,443 –> 00:32:11,443
[Michael Finke]: area
658
00:32:10,777 –> 00:32:14,857
[Michael Finke]: instruments that hedge against equity risk or interest rate swaps but
659
00:32:14,580 –> 00:32:15,580
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
660
00:32:15,417 –> 00:32:20,537
[Michael Finke]: that costs money and it’s going to result in a lower expected wealth over time
661
00:32:20,597 –> 00:32:21,597
[Michael Finke]: just like any
662
00:32:21,220 –> 00:32:22,220
[Paul Tyler]: thank you
663
00:32:21,817 –> 00:32:26,217
[Michael Finke]: insurance product that you buy if you buy homeowners insurance you will have less
664
00:32:26,457 –> 00:32:33,337
[Michael Finke]: wealth over time because you are paying for that pooling risk so that if if your
665
00:32:33,417 –> 00:32:37,497
[Michael Finke]: house burns down then you’re going to get a new home in the same way you’re
666
00:32:37,577 –> 00:32:41,737
[Michael Finke]: pooling risk it results in less wealth over time but you’re getting rid of the
667
00:32:41,737 –> 00:32:46,377
[Michael Finke]: risk of potentially running out and the advantage of that is that even with a
668
00:32:46,537 –> 00:32:51,897
[Michael Finke]: portfolio that includes risky assets that could allow you to spend more so this is
669
00:32:51,977 –> 00:32:58,697
[Michael Finke]: a solution i think for the flexible part of your budget is that yes i’m willing to
670
00:32:58,777 –> 00:33:03,417
[Michael Finke]: take a certain amount of risk but with my flexible expenses i am also not willing
671
00:33:03,497 –> 00:33:04,617
[Michael Finke]: to cut back so much
672
00:33:06,137 –> 00:33:11,977
[Michael Finke]: that i’m not able to enjoy my retirement so that insurance product then provides
673
00:33:12,037 –> 00:33:13,037
[Michael Finke]: that backstop
674
00:33:12,500 –> 00:33:13,500
[Paul Tyler]: the
675
00:33:13,577 –> 00:33:18,377
[Michael Finke]: portfolio income protection now from the perspective of an insurance company this
676
00:33:18,077 –> 00:33:19,077
[Michael Finke]: is actually
677
00:33:19,977 –> 00:33:26,217
[Michael Finke]: not an incredibly onerous insurance product to provide why because it only kicks
678
00:33:26,297 –> 00:33:31,897
[Michael Finke]: in if the person lives too long and markets don’t cooperate and if you’ve hedged
679
00:33:31,977 –> 00:33:35,897
[Michael Finke]: this appropriate appropriately if markets have done really badly then your
680
00:33:36,217 –> 00:33:41,257
[Michael Finke]: portfolio that you’re using to fund this guarantee is actually doing pretty well
681
00:33:41,977 –> 00:33:47,657
[Michael Finke]: so that that’s why you can buy it for a relatively modest cost but the benefit in
682
00:33:47,737 –> 00:33:50,297
[Michael Finke]: terms of lifestyle is enormous
683
00:33:50,363 –> 00:33:51,363
[Michael Finke]: white
684
00:33:50,857 –> 00:33:54,937
[Michael Finke]: i can spend money even if the markets tank i can go out to dinner i can continue
685
00:33:55,177 –> 00:34:00,697
[Michael Finke]: to go on vacations because i know that that backstop protection exists and from
686
00:34:01,097 –> 00:34:05,097
[Michael Finke]: most of us who are in the ra world are trained to believe that this is just sort
687
00:34:05,097 –> 00:34:11,657
[Michael Finke]: of a scam but if it is a scam then are you willing to provide that yourself to a
688
00:34:11,737 –> 00:34:16,297
[Michael Finke]: client are you willing to provide the backstop if they run out of money if not
689
00:34:17,097 –> 00:34:21,817
[Michael Finke]: then you have to consider incorporating this kind of portfolio insurance into your
690
00:34:21,897 –> 00:34:23,177
[Michael Finke]: retirement income plans
691
00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:26,720
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i look i think that’s a very strong point and
692
00:34:28,240 –> 00:34:34,480
[Ramsey Smith]: i i my view is that financial advisors provide an extraordinarily important
693
00:34:34,800 –> 00:34:36,480
[Ramsey Smith]: service along so many
694
00:34:38,000 –> 00:34:42,880
[Ramsey Smith]: parameters but they don’t necessarily have like that that skin in the game and
695
00:34:42,960 –> 00:34:44,080
[Ramsey Smith]: this is the discussion that
696
00:34:44,860 –> 00:34:45,860
[Ramsey Smith]: that sort of
697
00:34:46,100 –> 00:34:47,100
[Paul Tyler]: me
698
00:34:46,123 –> 00:34:47,123
[Michael Finke]: me
699
00:34:46,560 –> 00:34:49,680
[Ramsey Smith]: puts that puts that at the forefront i mean i imagine it’s
700
00:34:49,803 –> 00:34:50,803
[Michael Finke]: yeah
701
00:34:50,000 –> 00:34:54,000
[Ramsey Smith]: imagine it can be an uncomfortable discussion but i i think it
702
00:34:53,780 –> 00:34:54,780
[Paul Tyler]: that
703
00:34:54,160 –> 00:34:55,440
[Ramsey Smith]: you know over time you know
704
00:34:54,160 –> 00:34:55,440
[Ramsey Smith]: you know over time you know
705
00:34:56,220 –> 00:34:57,220
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s the potential
706
00:34:56,843 –> 00:34:57,843
[Michael Finke]: yeah
707
00:34:57,280 –> 00:35:01,680
[Ramsey Smith]: for it to lead to better write better and more complete solutions for for
708
00:35:01,580 –> 00:35:02,580
[Ramsey Smith]: consumers
709
00:35:04,403 –> 00:35:05,403
[Michael Finke]: yeah i
710
00:35:04,720 –> 00:35:10,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i i i i’d actually be interested to know like in my you’ve probably done this
711
00:35:04,720 –> 00:35:10,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i i i i’d actually be interested to know like in my you’ve probably done this
712
00:35:06,583 –> 00:35:10,823
[Michael Finke]: i’d actually be interested to know like and my per you’ve probably done this i
713
00:35:10,300 –> 00:35:11,300
[Paul Tyler]: i mean
714
00:35:10,300 –> 00:35:11,300
[Paul Tyler]: i mean
715
00:35:10,443 –> 00:35:11,443
[Michael Finke]: mean
716
00:35:12,720 –> 00:35:18,720
[Paul Tyler]: that product versus an fi a when i’m taking income out you know fifteen twenty
717
00:35:12,743 –> 00:35:16,423
[Michael Finke]: that product versus an fia when i’m taking
718
00:35:16,237 –> 00:35:17,237
[Michael Finke]: cool
719
00:35:16,663 –> 00:35:20,903
[Michael Finke]: income out you know fifteen twenty years from now i mean how does how does it how
720
00:35:18,960 –> 00:35:21,600
[Paul Tyler]: years from now i mean how does it how does it compare
721
00:35:20,803 –> 00:35:21,803
[Michael Finke]: does it compare
722
00:35:23,040 –> 00:35:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: in terms of the income you’d be able to show a client
723
00:35:23,143 –> 00:35:25,383
[Michael Finke]: in terms of the income you’d be able to show a client
724
00:35:26,077 –> 00:35:27,077
[Michael Finke]: so
725
00:35:26,300 –> 00:35:27,300
[Paul Tyler]: i yeah
726
00:35:26,323 –> 00:35:27,323
[Michael Finke]: i yeah
727
00:35:26,323 –> 00:35:27,323
[Michael Finke]: i yeah
728
00:35:27,897 –> 00:35:32,857
[Michael Finke]: yeah um you know one of the benefits of this type of a product is that you get to
729
00:35:33,657 –> 00:35:36,777
[Michael Finke]: capture more of the equity risk premium if
730
00:35:36,340 –> 00:35:37,340
[Paul Tyler]: right
731
00:35:36,363 –> 00:35:37,363
[Michael Finke]: right
732
00:35:36,857 –> 00:35:41,977
[Michael Finke]: you get it that’s why you invest in risky assets is so that if stocks do well then
733
00:35:42,137 –> 00:35:47,337
[Michael Finke]: your portfolio value is going to rise and then your income your guaranteed income
734
00:35:47,417 –> 00:35:50,297
[Michael Finke]: amount can also ratchet up that allows you to spend more and that’s why you take
735
00:35:50,297 –> 00:35:51,497
[Michael Finke]: risk in the first place so that
736
00:35:51,083 –> 00:35:52,083
[Michael Finke]: yes
737
00:35:51,497 –> 00:35:54,217
[Michael Finke]: you could potentially with your flexible expenses you could potentially live
738
00:35:54,217 –> 00:35:58,617
[Michael Finke]: better if stocks do well with a fixed index annuity especially at today’s low
739
00:35:58,777 –> 00:36:03,577
[Michael Finke]: interest rates the budget for your upside is really not that great so it’s really
740
00:36:03,577 –> 00:36:07,657
[Michael Finke]: more of a fixed income like potential for growth whereas this gives you more
741
00:36:07,557 –> 00:36:08,557
[Michael Finke]: upside potential
742
00:36:10,297 –> 00:36:13,337
[Michael Finke]: whereas the downside actually might be a little bit lower than it would be for a
743
00:36:13,237 –> 00:36:14,237
[Michael Finke]: fixed and extra noy
744
00:36:15,580 –> 00:36:16,580
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well
745
00:36:15,683 –> 00:36:16,683
[Michael Finke]: yeah well
746
00:36:17,920 –> 00:36:22,320
[Paul Tyler]: we’re close to the end i just got to have to have to ask you this question you
747
00:36:17,920 –> 00:36:22,320
[Paul Tyler]: we’re close to the end i just got to have to have to ask you this question you
748
00:36:18,023 –> 00:36:19,783
[Michael Finke]: we’re close to the end i i just got
749
00:36:20,763 –> 00:36:21,763
[Michael Finke]: have to ask you
750
00:36:21,277 –> 00:36:22,277
[Michael Finke]: any
751
00:36:21,703 –> 00:36:24,183
[Michael Finke]: this question you know you’ve mentioned a number of your
752
00:36:22,320 –> 00:36:26,240
[Paul Tyler]: know you’ve mentioned a number of your colleagues you’re working with wade we’ve
753
00:36:22,320 –> 00:36:26,240
[Paul Tyler]: know you’ve mentioned a number of your colleagues you’re working with wade we’ve
754
00:36:24,397 –> 00:36:25,397
[Michael Finke]: oh
755
00:36:24,743 –> 00:36:26,903
[Michael Finke]: colleagues you’re working with wade we’ve had on
756
00:36:25,980 –> 00:36:26,980
[Paul Tyler]: had on
757
00:36:25,980 –> 00:36:26,980
[Paul Tyler]: had on
758
00:36:27,840 –> 00:36:33,360
[Paul Tyler]: dave we talked to press and cherry back i guess have been like i don’t know four
759
00:36:27,943 –> 00:36:33,223
[Michael Finke]: dave we talked to press and cherry i guess it must have been like i don’t know
760
00:36:33,303 –> 00:36:38,583
[Michael Finke]: four or five months agogo we discovered texas tech was like somehow a nexus of
761
00:36:33,360 –> 00:36:38,800
[Paul Tyler]: or five months ago we discovered texas tech was like somehow a nexus of people
762
00:36:38,743 –> 00:36:42,423
[Michael Finke]: people doing really interesting work in this space tell us more i mean is there
763
00:36:39,120 –> 00:36:42,560
[Paul Tyler]: doing really interesting work in the space tell us more i mean is there something
764
00:36:42,503 –> 00:36:45,383
[Michael Finke]: something in the water in texas tech michael that just
765
00:36:42,720 –> 00:36:44,720
[Paul Tyler]: in the water in texas tech michael that just
766
00:36:46,380 –> 00:36:47,380
[Paul Tyler]: makes you want
767
00:36:46,443 –> 00:36:47,443
[Michael Finke]: makes you want
768
00:36:46,843 –> 00:36:47,843
[Michael Finke]: to
769
00:36:46,877 –> 00:36:47,877
[Michael Finke]: thank you
770
00:36:48,160 –> 00:36:51,200
[Paul Tyler]: really make a difference in this planning market
771
00:36:48,263 –> 00:36:51,223
[Michael Finke]: really make a difference in this planning market
772
00:36:51,977 –> 00:36:57,497
[Michael Finke]: you know the the credit for texas tech goes back to a guy named bill gustafson and
773
00:36:57,657 –> 00:37:02,537
[Michael Finke]: vicky hampton if you’ve ever heard those names so those two recognized the
774
00:37:03,897 –> 00:37:08,617
[Michael Finke]: importance of the financial planning profession and providing an education to
775
00:37:08,937 –> 00:37:13,817
[Michael Finke]: financial advisors that was high quality and so back in the one thousand nine
776
00:37:13,897 –> 00:37:18,857
[Michael Finke]: hundred ninety seconds they put together this team of experts and they became the
777
00:37:19,097 –> 00:37:23,417
[Michael Finke]: place to go if you wanted a high quality financial planning education and then in
778
00:37:23,577 –> 00:37:28,697
[Michael Finke]: two thousand six i came to texas tech and my job was to lead the phd
779
00:37:28,500 –> 00:37:29,500
[Paul Tyler]: that
780
00:37:28,777 –> 00:37:32,537
[Michael Finke]: program in financial planning and a lot of the people who graduated from that
781
00:37:32,617 –> 00:37:36,377
[Michael Finke]: program are now heads of financial planning programs across the united states
782
00:37:35,963 –> 00:37:36,963
[Michael Finke]: yeah
783
00:37:36,457 –> 00:37:39,657
[Michael Finke]: so the chair of the program at georgia is from texas
784
00:37:40,043 –> 00:37:41,043
[Michael Finke]: yeah
785
00:37:40,217 –> 00:37:42,057
[Michael Finke]: tch kansas state
786
00:37:42,683 –> 00:37:43,683
[Michael Finke]: five
787
00:37:44,057 –> 00:37:47,337
[Michael Finke]: you know utah valley a lot of these smaller programs that really focus on
788
00:37:47,497 –> 00:37:52,537
[Michael Finke]: financial planning they’re texas tech graduates and when it comes to annuitity
789
00:37:53,977 –> 00:38:01,017
[Michael Finke]: this i think receptivity to annuitity came from this idea that you know we’re
790
00:38:01,017 –> 00:38:06,217
[Michael Finke]: economists we read the economic research and for a long time it kind of economists
791
00:38:06,217 –> 00:38:10,217
[Michael Finke]: have been talking about this annuity puzzle this idea that people are not
792
00:38:10,297 –> 00:38:14,777
[Michael Finke]: annuitity izing as much as they should and in financial planning practice you know
793
00:38:14,857 –> 00:38:19,657
[Michael Finke]: there’s this historical split betweens and investments and there’s not a whole lot
794
00:38:19,597 –> 00:38:20,597
[Michael Finke]: of cross pollination
795
00:38:21,897 –> 00:38:26,617
[Michael Finke]: but as economist our job is to try to tell investment advisors how they can
796
00:38:26,777 –> 00:38:32,137
[Michael Finke]: actually be fiduciary and exposing your client to an idiosyncratic risk like the
797
00:38:32,217 –> 00:38:37,177
[Michael Finke]: risk of unknown longevity is not something a fiduciary should do it’s not in the
798
00:38:37,177 –> 00:38:41,737
[Michael Finke]: best interest of a client so we have to then teach them how to do it appropriately
799
00:38:41,737 –> 00:38:45,737
[Michael Finke]: and that’s part of what motivated us to think about what are some of the tradeoffs
800
00:38:45,817 –> 00:38:50,057
[Michael Finke]: between using for example the four percent rule which exposes the client to that
801
00:38:50,137 –> 00:38:54,377
[Michael Finke]: idiosyncratic risk of not knowing how long they’re going to live as opposed to
802
00:38:54,777 –> 00:38:59,337
[Michael Finke]: another strategy that incorporates some combination of annuitity that allows
803
00:38:59,417 –> 00:39:04,377
[Michael Finke]: people to live better in retirement and so that’s really the genesis of a lot of
804
00:39:04,377 –> 00:39:08,537
[Michael Finke]: the research on david blanch had also got his phd at texas tech but he was doing
805
00:39:08,777 –> 00:39:13,977
[Michael Finke]: research on retirement income planning before he came to texas tech waited foul
806
00:39:14,057 –> 00:39:19,257
[Michael Finke]: and i and david have done a lot of research together and really our main purpose
807
00:39:19,277 –> 00:39:20,277
[Michael Finke]: is to
808
00:39:21,337 –> 00:39:22,937
[Michael Finke]: get advisors to understand
809
00:39:23,977 –> 00:39:26,697
[Michael Finke]: when annuities provide value and why they
810
00:39:26,580 –> 00:39:27,580
[Paul Tyler]: that’s true
811
00:39:26,857 –> 00:39:31,417
[Michael Finke]: provide value really how to put together a retirement income plan that does the
812
00:39:31,577 –> 00:39:37,497
[Michael Finke]: best job for your client and then we have obviously faced a lot of opposition
813
00:39:37,737 –> 00:39:40,617
[Michael Finke]: along the way from people who like to believe that
814
00:39:40,603 –> 00:39:41,603
[Michael Finke]: yeah
815
00:39:40,857 –> 00:39:45,817
[Michael Finke]: annu doesn’t actually provide value but the reality is that every economist who
816
00:39:45,897 –> 00:39:47,657
[Michael Finke]: studies retirement income planning has been
817
00:39:47,323 –> 00:39:48,323
[Michael Finke]: yeah
818
00:39:47,817 –> 00:39:51,257
[Michael Finke]: saying for a long time that people are simply don’t anu as much and they could
819
00:39:52,297 –> 00:39:55,897
[Michael Finke]: have be happier in retirement they could spend more they could have more welfare
820
00:39:56,057 –> 00:40:01,097
[Michael Finke]: if they actually annu more of their savings and we just sort of adopted that as
821
00:40:01,177 –> 00:40:02,297
[Michael Finke]: the financial planning researchers
822
00:40:05,680 –> 00:40:10,080
[Ramsey Smith]: fantastic so i think we’re i think we’re at the the top of the hour here it’s been
823
00:40:10,240 –> 00:40:16,800
[Ramsey Smith]: uh been fantastic to have you on michael and uh we would love to have you back on
824
00:40:17,120 –> 00:40:19,360
[Ramsey Smith]: or make you a regular frankly in the
825
00:40:19,140 –> 00:40:20,140
[Ramsey Smith]: coming
826
00:40:19,380 –> 00:40:20,380
[Paul Tyler]: uh hu
827
00:40:19,563 –> 00:40:20,563
[Michael Finke]: hu
828
00:40:19,620 –> 00:40:20,620
[Ramsey Smith]: months and years
829
00:40:21,557 –> 00:40:22,557
[Michael Finke]: well i’d love that
830
00:40:21,763 –> 00:40:22,763
[Michael Finke]: no yeah
831
00:40:21,840 –> 00:40:26,160
[Paul Tyler]: no yeah ab absolutely michael so for listeners out there who want to learn more
832
00:40:22,420 –> 00:40:23,420
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
833
00:40:22,743 –> 00:40:26,743
[Michael Finke]: ab absolutely michael so for listeners out there want to learn more all your
834
00:40:26,320 –> 00:40:28,480
[Paul Tyler]: follow your research where’s the best place to go
835
00:40:26,823 –> 00:40:28,583
[Michael Finke]: research where’s the best place to go
836
00:40:29,497 –> 00:40:33,737
[Michael Finke]: well i’m a contributing editor forth advisor magazine so once or twice a month
837
00:40:33,897 –> 00:40:37,497
[Michael Finke]: i’ll be writing articles for think advisor you can always follow my research on
838
00:40:37,737 –> 00:40:43,417
[Michael Finke]: social science research network to search ss rn and my name and you’ll find the
839
00:40:43,497 –> 00:40:47,817
[Michael Finke]: articles that i’ve done recently and all the articles that i’ve done in the past
840
00:40:48,560 –> 00:40:52,560
[Paul Tyler]: excellent all right wilson thanks so much for time michael ramsey great to see you
841
00:40:48,663 –> 00:40:52,583
[Michael Finke]: excellent alright wilson thanks so much for time michael ramsay great to see you
842
00:40:52,720 –> 00:40:59,120
[Paul Tyler]: in thai and for those of our listeners join us again next week for another episode
843
00:40:52,743 –> 00:40:58,343
[Michael Finke]: in thai and uh for those of our listeners join us again next week for another
844
00:40:58,663 –> 00:41:00,583
[Michael Finke]: episode of that annuity show
845
00:40:59,280 –> 00:41:00,480
[Paul Tyler]: of that annuity show
846
00:41:04,560 –> 00:41:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: hey thanks that was great michael can you leave your um
847
00:41:08,400 –> 00:41:13,520
[Paul Tyler]: your browser open you’re about halfway uploaded so we’ll end up dropping off but
848
00:41:13,600 –> 00:41:17,920
[Paul Tyler]: just if you just let it let it run that would be great hey ramsay thank that we
849
00:41:18,000 –> 00:41:19,760
[Paul Tyler]: appreciate it this is great to get you on here
850
00:41:22,660 –> 00:41:23,660
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
851
00:41:24,980 –> 00:41:25,980
[Paul Tyler]: well
852
00:41:28,160 –> 00:41:29,200
[Paul Tyler]: for getting you on
853
00:41:34,340 –> 00:41:35,340
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
854
00:41:36,960 –> 00:41:40,640
[Paul Tyler]: yeah and michael just on your last name is it finke if fink
855
00:41:41,760 –> 00:41:47,440
[Paul Tyler]: fina okay german excellent all right hey listen no this is great well i’ll put
856
00:41:47,520 –> 00:41:50,800
[Paul Tyler]: those links in the show outs and anything else you’d think you’d want us to link
857
00:41:50,420 –> 00:41:51,420
[Paul Tyler]: to
858
00:41:52,000 –> 00:41:56,640
[Paul Tyler]: shoot me out and we’ll get it up in the next i think to look out how many weeks
859
00:41:56,640 –> 00:42:00,880
[Paul Tyler]: we’re out it what we’re one or two weeks out right now uh with show but uh good
860
00:42:01,340 –> 00:42:02,340
[Paul Tyler]: alright
861
00:42:03,440 –> 00:42:05,440
[Paul Tyler]: thank you thanks bye
862
00:42:09,520 –> 00:42:11,680
[Paul Tyler]: we call okay great thanks
863
00:42:14,640 –> 00:42:16,720
[Paul Tyler]: we leave it up ts yeah thank you
864
00:42:18,480 –> 00:42:21,520
[Paul Tyler]: uh okay so next is what
865
00:42:25,920 –> 00:42:27,440
[Paul Tyler]: ashley yeah this is really good here
866
00:42:29,220 –> 00:42:30,220
[Paul Tyler]: ha
867
00:42:30,500 –> 00:42:31,500
[Paul Tyler]: lake
868
00:42:39,660 –> 00:42:40,660
[Paul Tyler]: yeah stream key
869
00:42:50,060 –> 00:42:51,060
[Paul Tyler]: right okay
870
00:43:20,960 –> 00:43:22,000
[Paul Tyler]: here are the times
871
00:43:25,280 –> 00:43:26,320
[Paul Tyler]: okay ashley
872
00:43:30,240 –> 00:43:31,280
[Paul Tyler]: hm okay
873
00:43:36,620 –> 00:43:37,620
[Paul Tyler]: hm
874
00:43:41,840 –> 00:43:47,760
[Paul Tyler]: hey ashley oh how you doing you don’t feel it feels like two weeks i’m telling you
875
00:43:48,000 –> 00:43:50,480
[Paul Tyler]: and what we part two
876
00:43:51,060 –> 00:43:52,060
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
877
00:43:53,760 –> 00:43:57,760
[Paul Tyler]: no good good interview with michael finke finke fink
878
00:43:59,040 –> 00:44:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: who who’s a professor at the american college some he you know he’s somebody he
879
00:44:03,760 –> 00:44:09,280
[Paul Tyler]: gets written up all all over he’s a vocal but i don’t know a little stuffy guy i
880
00:44:09,280 –> 00:44:13,120
[Paul Tyler]: don’t know it it was good it was good he’ll be a good name to get on there but
881
00:44:13,680 –> 00:44:17,760
[Paul Tyler]: this guy net you can tell he never deals with clients and he’s been you can tell
882
00:44:17,840 –> 00:44:20,320
[Paul Tyler]: he’s saying the same thing over and over and over and over again
883
00:44:21,920 –> 00:44:25,760
[Paul Tyler]: he’s a te he’s a teacher exactly a teacher
884
00:44:27,600 –> 00:44:34,800
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah so fs out yeah and shagging on social media at least oh yeah totally
885
00:44:35,200 –> 00:44:39,040
[Paul Tyler]: okay so hey listen you’re you’re working a lot here let me let me go through my
886
00:44:39,120 –> 00:44:41,360
[Paul Tyler]: list and kind of you tell me what i what i’m missing here
887
00:44:42,260 –> 00:44:43,260
[Paul Tyler]: so
888
00:44:45,580 –> 00:44:46,580
[Paul Tyler]: pull us up
889
00:44:50,580 –> 00:44:51,580
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see
890
00:44:52,980 –> 00:44:53,980
[Paul Tyler]: okay uh
891
00:44:56,000 –> 00:44:57,520
[Paul Tyler]: all right so if i were looking
892
00:44:58,960 –> 00:45:00,720
[Paul Tyler]: backwards and i know i’m missing stuff
893
00:45:05,460 –> 00:45:06,460
[Paul Tyler]: oh yeah let’s see
894
00:45:13,440 –> 00:45:15,360
[Paul Tyler]: make sure i’m like not missing it here
895
00:45:19,600 –> 00:45:23,760
[Paul Tyler]: okay big stuff if i look at and tell me what i’m missing if i if i kind of grouped
896
00:45:23,840 –> 00:45:26,080
[Paul Tyler]: it by like okay fi work
897
00:45:28,320 –> 00:45:29,520
[Paul Tyler]: well writer courses
898
00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:31,900
[Paul Tyler]: writer pages
899
00:45:33,040 –> 00:45:34,720
[Paul Tyler]: the index videos right
900
00:45:35,780 –> 00:45:36,780
[Paul Tyler]: um
901
00:45:37,360 –> 00:45:41,280
[Paul Tyler]: th th were those kind of the big ones i think like if you look back last quarter
902
00:45:42,140 –> 00:45:43,140
[Paul Tyler]: right for
903
00:45:44,480 –> 00:45:48,240
[Paul Tyler]: i would say so i think most of the the time and organization went into those
904
00:45:51,520 –> 00:45:57,120
[Paul Tyler]: y yeah question i’m not sure i have to go back and look the rest of the stuff i
905
00:45:57,200 –> 00:46:00,000
[Paul Tyler]: know there’s a lot of stuff but i’m trying yeah if i’m going to try back and say
906
00:46:00,080 –> 00:46:04,560
[Paul Tyler]: well what did she do well you know listen ashley was played a big role in getting
907
00:46:05,280 –> 00:46:10,800
[Paul Tyler]: all those new products launched and out the door for the fs now i think on med sup
908
00:46:11,200 –> 00:46:16,160
[Paul Tyler]: you’ve been doing a ton there now the ones that kind of leaps out is all the work
909
00:46:16,400 –> 00:46:21,680
[Paul Tyler]: to get all the ads running on meds yeah that was for or for last quarter
910
00:46:22,000 –> 00:46:25,600
[Paul Tyler]: definitely for this past quarter for sure yeah obviously we
911
00:46:27,200 –> 00:46:32,080
[Paul Tyler]: yeah millions right i mean it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a lot of stuff going on but and
912
00:46:32,080 –> 00:46:35,360
[Paul Tyler]: then going back and actually looking through those pages after we got them
913
00:46:35,440 –> 00:46:41,120
[Paul Tyler]: launched now you’ve also done you did a lot for for the content for the app right
914
00:46:41,520 –> 00:46:44,080
[Paul Tyler]: a lot of the content development work for our
915
00:46:45,680 –> 00:46:49,520
[Paul Tyler]: and development part management and the app kind of going back and forth between
916
00:46:49,760 –> 00:46:53,360
[Paul Tyler]: systems and loading everything and organizing with nick how to update the website
917
00:46:53,420 –> 00:46:54,420
[Paul Tyler]: right to reflect
918
00:46:55,760 –> 00:47:00,640
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah that was that was big um and the other one was i think which is a good
919
00:47:00,800 –> 00:47:04,080
[Paul Tyler]: one and probably it probably didn’t take you that much time but it was i think
920
00:47:04,080 –> 00:47:08,160
[Paul Tyler]: it’s good for time just to see doing that stuff is you know pulling those pages
921
00:47:08,240 –> 00:47:09,360
[Paul Tyler]: apart and
922
00:47:10,720 –> 00:47:14,400
[Paul Tyler]: on sales net it seemed like okay how do you tell a story about going from here to
923
00:47:14,560 –> 00:47:19,120
[Paul Tyler]: here to there so i think that’s the bit you like right are we missing anything now
924
00:47:19,680 –> 00:47:23,920
[Paul Tyler]: you did a lot with salesforce but there’s still kind of stuff in flight there um
925
00:47:25,600 –> 00:47:29,440
[Paul Tyler]: yeah a lot of building of reports and organizing things tesa and i are going to
926
00:47:29,520 –> 00:47:34,000
[Paul Tyler]: have a call with them this week to renew our package for next year and ask a
927
00:47:33,820 –> 00:47:34,820
[Paul Tyler]: couple of questions
928
00:47:35,760 –> 00:47:40,240
[Paul Tyler]: yeah right i mean you got all the reimagined contacts in there right that was a
929
00:47:40,320 –> 00:47:44,880
[Paul Tyler]: big deal we had all the um update elite stuff in we had all the reimagined
930
00:47:44,880 –> 00:47:49,520
[Paul Tyler]: contacts too we added all the simple annuity and red agent information that we
931
00:47:49,680 –> 00:47:56,160
[Paul Tyler]: have and organize that um i think those are the good paths they list close yeah
932
00:48:05,680 –> 00:48:10,960
[Paul Tyler]: and the f stuff kind of being part of that oh yeah yeah yeah let me not it is a
933
00:48:11,040 –> 00:48:14,480
[Paul Tyler]: problem it’s like this action i mean this year i’m swear i’m keeping these lists
934
00:48:14,540 –> 00:48:15,540
[Paul Tyler]: so that it’s
935
00:48:16,880 –> 00:48:18,480
[Paul Tyler]: easy through the course of the year here
936
00:48:20,960 –> 00:48:24,800
[Paul Tyler]: it is as we talk about it more stuff is popping up in my mind so i’m like yeah i
937
00:48:24,800 –> 00:48:28,000
[Paul Tyler]: guess yeah it just not like you’re you know it’s not like the score points however
938
00:48:28,160 –> 00:48:29,920
[Paul Tyler]: it’s great to be able to look back and say
939
00:48:30,500 –> 00:48:31,500
[Paul Tyler]: okay
940
00:48:32,720 –> 00:48:37,760
[Paul Tyler]: w you know we just sit on our butts for accomplishments to yeah
941
00:48:40,640 –> 00:48:43,280
[Paul Tyler]: yeah five nine implementation and that was
942
00:48:47,680 –> 00:48:51,920
[Paul Tyler]: that was mary mary was mary was really involved in that one too right as what’s
943
00:48:52,000 –> 00:48:56,720
[Paul Tyler]: tea she really drove it and then he’s a kind of like handled it from the back end
944
00:48:57,840 –> 00:49:03,040
[Paul Tyler]: yeah all the calls but mary i think was kind of put together yeah okay so that’s
945
00:49:02,860 –> 00:49:03,860
[Paul Tyler]: good so that
946
00:49:04,720 –> 00:49:08,320
[Paul Tyler]: if you think either stuff tell me because i think it’s great to kind of what you
947
00:49:08,400 –> 00:49:10,080
[Paul Tyler]: know what i do right was big
948
00:49:12,480 –> 00:49:17,280
[Paul Tyler]: i think um now in progress oh my gosh okay let’s let’s kind of go through this so
949
00:49:18,180 –> 00:49:19,180
[Paul Tyler]: um
950
00:49:20,160 –> 00:49:22,320
[Paul Tyler]: this is not an order this is just how it’s sorted
951
00:49:23,680 –> 00:49:27,120
[Paul Tyler]: okay triathlon that thing’s kind of going when i’m moving along right with
952
00:49:28,720 –> 00:49:35,360
[Paul Tyler]: you and jessica yeah for that for our ordering a braided items and or where it’s
953
00:49:35,440 –> 00:49:36,800
[Paul Tyler]: coming from reasonable
954
00:49:38,320 –> 00:49:41,600
[Paul Tyler]: okay i’m getting pricing on snow fencing and other manners of
955
00:49:43,280 –> 00:49:45,600
[Paul Tyler]: yeah you know what i would do is see if you could
956
00:49:47,840 –> 00:49:52,320
[Paul Tyler]: see if neal could be there for photos why are you why do you why don’t you book
957
00:49:52,140 –> 00:49:53,140
[Paul Tyler]: him now
958
00:49:54,860 –> 00:49:55,860
[Paul Tyler]: let’s do that
959
00:50:00,180 –> 00:50:01,180
[Paul Tyler]: i think
960
00:50:02,320 –> 00:50:07,520
[Paul Tyler]: can you put something together for mark i think there’s the triathlon uh i think
961
00:50:07,300 –> 00:50:08,300
[Paul Tyler]: there’s a
962
00:50:08,820 –> 00:50:09,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i
963
00:50:10,480 –> 00:50:12,640
[Paul Tyler]: for sale for sales people yeah i think um
964
00:50:13,540 –> 00:50:14,540
[Paul Tyler]: day
965
00:50:16,480 –> 00:50:19,440
[Paul Tyler]: yeah it just something that he could kind of
966
00:50:20,480 –> 00:50:25,280
[Paul Tyler]: send to people to say what what the heck is this i’ve got a starter page for you
967
00:50:25,520 –> 00:50:29,360
[Paul Tyler]: feel free to start from scratch right that was one that just kind of put out there
968
00:50:32,880 –> 00:50:36,800
[Paul Tyler]: okay grow together deck we gotta wait for tom mark was actually asking for us
969
00:50:37,600 –> 00:50:40,320
[Paul Tyler]: that’s kind of out there annuity genius
970
00:50:40,900 –> 00:50:41,900
[Paul Tyler]: piece
971
00:50:43,280 –> 00:50:47,200
[Paul Tyler]: you just need to know like when can we cancel are we hooked into this thing
972
00:50:47,060 –> 00:50:48,060
[Paul Tyler]: forever
973
00:50:48,800 –> 00:50:52,080
[Paul Tyler]: i asked her in the mail yesterday and i said we’d like to consider a three month
974
00:50:52,140 –> 00:50:53,140
[Paul Tyler]: contract i want to
975
00:50:53,940 –> 00:50:54,940
[Paul Tyler]: okay
976
00:50:58,560 –> 00:51:04,480
[Paul Tyler]: so you know suffer for snub on your end is personalized agendas and then has colin
977
00:51:04,560 –> 00:51:08,720
[Paul Tyler]: given you any sort of run a show yet to figure out like what are you doing when no
978
00:51:08,960 –> 00:51:13,520
[Paul Tyler]: so she said that mary’s creating it the contractor is gonna create it and send it
979
00:51:13,600 –> 00:51:15,360
[Paul Tyler]: to us but i haven’t seen anything so i
980
00:51:16,560 –> 00:51:19,600
[Paul Tyler]: yeah just to ask her because i i don’t want you to go down there and feel like
981
00:51:19,600 –> 00:51:25,040
[Paul Tyler]: you’re sitting on your hands or worse you you’ve you kind of jumping around at
982
00:51:25,120 –> 00:51:30,080
[Paul Tyler]: last second to do stuff right enough either way is fine i mean i i don’t think’ll
983
00:51:30,080 –> 00:51:33,520
[Paul Tyler]: be sitting around cause there’s less staff now this time around than there wasn’t
984
00:51:33,680 –> 00:51:37,040
[Paul Tyler]: noa and yeah i think she wants us to drive people around
985
00:51:38,320 –> 00:51:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: i think that’s going to be part of like a big part of what we’re doing is like
986
00:51:41,120 –> 00:51:44,160
[Paul Tyler]: golf caring people okay so stay
987
00:51:45,200 –> 00:51:46,480
[Paul Tyler]: do we have insurance for that
988
00:51:48,140 –> 00:51:49,140
[Paul Tyler]: it’s a good question
989
00:51:50,240 –> 00:51:51,440
[Paul Tyler]: yeah seriously right
990
00:51:52,640 –> 00:51:55,760
[Paul Tyler]: so i think you ask because if we start to shuttle people around
991
00:51:57,600 –> 00:52:01,040
[Paul Tyler]: okay somebody falls off a golf cart somebody gets hit by a golf cart
992
00:52:02,720 –> 00:52:08,320
[Paul Tyler]: the resort yeah i don’t want to see you personally right right wrong
993
00:52:09,360 –> 00:52:12,880
[Paul Tyler]: i mean i probably it prob it would probably fall on her scope right
994
00:52:14,320 –> 00:52:19,600
[Paul Tyler]: it probably is in shared with the event um but i don’t know yeah because there’s a
995
00:52:19,680 –> 00:52:22,160
[Paul Tyler]: reason why people at companies aren’t driving people around
996
00:52:23,920 –> 00:52:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: okay we be hire companies
997
00:52:26,640 –> 00:52:27,840
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah okay
998
00:52:29,700 –> 00:52:30,700
[Paul Tyler]: so okay
999
00:52:31,420 –> 00:52:32,420
[Paul Tyler]: personalized stuff
1000
00:52:33,840 –> 00:52:37,600
[Paul Tyler]: now i think the ones where i think you know the big impact okay
1001
00:52:38,640 –> 00:52:43,360
[Paul Tyler]: chat usage by elites this is going to be good i think the bigger salesforce stuff
1002
00:52:43,760 –> 00:52:48,320
[Paul Tyler]: is a big deal like i think that elite scoreboard i i’m calling it elite score
1003
00:52:48,400 –> 00:52:49,600
[Paul Tyler]: board in salesforce
1004
00:52:50,260 –> 00:52:51,260
[Paul Tyler]: um
1005
00:52:52,640 –> 00:52:56,560
[Paul Tyler]: uh when do you think you’re i’m sorry i keep asking so is it ended this week
1006
00:52:56,720 –> 00:53:01,680
[Paul Tyler]: they’re giving you data um ask for it by monday so we could do the first up monday
1007
00:53:01,680 –> 00:53:04,080
[Paul Tyler]: scott’s right back he’s at the office oh good
1008
00:53:04,740 –> 00:53:05,740
[Paul Tyler]: okay
1009
00:53:07,340 –> 00:53:08,340
[Paul Tyler]: that’s right
1010
00:53:09,200 –> 00:53:10,960
[Paul Tyler]: so yeah don’t worry
1011
00:53:11,620 –> 00:53:12,620
[Paul Tyler]: i think
1012
00:53:15,140 –> 00:53:16,140
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see
1013
00:53:17,600 –> 00:53:20,560
[Paul Tyler]: i think we’re in a good place though with the fields and i think he can do it all
1014
00:53:20,720 –> 00:53:24,960
[Paul Tyler]: it’s not i don’t think there’s is any issue in him mapping those skills okay all
1015
00:53:24,580 –> 00:53:25,580
[Paul Tyler]: right
1016
00:53:25,780 –> 00:53:26,780
[Paul Tyler]: um
1017
00:53:27,680 –> 00:53:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: did you see sorry back to the live chat thing you see the facebook messenger yeah
1018
00:53:32,880 –> 00:53:36,720
[Paul Tyler]: that it was great because i actually it started pop up and i think i think it gave
1019
00:53:36,720 –> 00:53:42,240
[Paul Tyler]: me a a two like a like some initial chat thing coming through there but it was
1020
00:53:42,400 –> 00:53:45,520
[Paul Tyler]: great i responded she went back through facebook
1021
00:53:47,220 –> 00:53:48,220
[Paul Tyler]: no
1022
00:53:49,600 –> 00:53:50,640
[Paul Tyler]: yeah no i yeah
1023
00:53:52,320 –> 00:53:53,680
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i think this was really good
1024
00:53:56,080 –> 00:54:00,960
[Paul Tyler]: again chat the reason i’m kind of walking through this elite and chat is going to
1025
00:54:00,960 –> 00:54:04,800
[Paul Tyler]: be really important for how do we engage these people in sort of an automated
1026
00:54:04,960 –> 00:54:08,880
[Paul Tyler]: fashion and that this will link the phone calls to the notes to the whatever so we
1027
00:54:09,120 –> 00:54:12,160
[Paul Tyler]: really you know get to know these people and
1028
00:54:16,080 –> 00:54:19,920
[Paul Tyler]: you know how do you turn into advisor for these elites right thats you know hey
1029
00:54:20,000 –> 00:54:23,840
[Paul Tyler]: i’m calling up ashley because she needs help with this stuff like i i’ll go back
1030
00:54:24,080 –> 00:54:27,120
[Paul Tyler]: to chris and give him a call and say he how’s everything going i’ll probably call
1031
00:54:27,200 –> 00:54:32,320
[Paul Tyler]: him the next next four or five days oh ashley’s great she does this she knows my
1032
00:54:32,020 –> 00:54:33,020
[Paul Tyler]: stuff
1033
00:54:36,880 –> 00:54:41,440
[Paul Tyler]: that will be i think that this will be a really good experience for you right if
1034
00:54:41,520 –> 00:54:44,960
[Paul Tyler]: you can sort of become the consult not the person’s doing it but the consult
1035
00:54:46,000 –> 00:54:50,400
[Paul Tyler]: but you know it’s a fine line between here’s the destruction manual versus i’m
1036
00:54:50,480 –> 00:54:53,360
[Paul Tyler]: actually going in and doing your phot post w where’s that
1037
00:54:54,400 –> 00:54:57,520
[Paul Tyler]: yeah there’s always a little bit of a healthy hand or at least willingness right
1038
00:54:57,260 –> 00:54:58,260
[Paul Tyler]: like you
1039
00:55:00,880 –> 00:55:03,120
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah so that’s that’s really good
1040
00:55:04,480 –> 00:55:08,480
[Paul Tyler]: now in terms of i don’t have the stuff on here it feels like you’re really
1041
00:55:08,640 –> 00:55:13,600
[Paul Tyler]: enjoying these podcast promotional stuff right went into riverside last night i
1042
00:55:13,760 –> 00:55:16,480
[Paul Tyler]: played around a little bit with the clips and i like redid the layouts and stuff
1043
00:55:16,800 –> 00:55:19,920
[Paul Tyler]: myself so i that was fun okay good good i’m
1044
00:55:20,900 –> 00:55:21,900
[Paul Tyler]: okay good
1045
00:55:22,880 –> 00:55:26,640
[Paul Tyler]: now i’m kind of excited about i think this will be good too for you to launch this
1046
00:55:26,720 –> 00:55:31,280
[Paul Tyler]: med sup piece frank’s going to come up here i want to work i want to work a little
1047
00:55:31,360 –> 00:55:35,920
[Paul Tyler]: more on that logo i kind of look at it it just feels a little too drab
1048
00:55:37,040 –> 00:55:39,280
[Paul Tyler]: yeah what does it feel like old
1049
00:55:40,140 –> 00:55:41,140
[Paul Tyler]: yes it does
1050
00:55:42,100 –> 00:55:43,100
[Paul Tyler]: i’m
1051
00:55:44,240 –> 00:55:47,760
[Paul Tyler]: some of the stuff that i heard in that social media examiner podcast was like the
1052
00:55:47,840 –> 00:55:52,720
[Paul Tyler]: trends and the upcoming trends are we use neons but brighter colors and things
1053
00:55:53,680 –> 00:55:57,280
[Paul Tyler]: well yeah and i’m gonna have freak like i looked at those color palettes and
1054
00:55:59,040 –> 00:56:02,720
[Paul Tyler]: you know i’ve been watching all these drug commercials like o tesla i can almost
1055
00:56:02,800 –> 00:56:08,240
[Paul Tyler]: say sing the o tesla commercial now hot you know ro zamak
1056
00:56:09,920 –> 00:56:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: but you know they’re all like real neon purple green blue and i think if frank
1057
00:56:14,640 –> 00:56:17,680
[Paul Tyler]: just tuned those colors up i think what i’m gonna do is have him i’m gonna have
1058
00:56:17,680 –> 00:56:22,000
[Paul Tyler]: him up here work through what the how to make sure the graphics are all kind of
1059
00:56:22,080 –> 00:56:25,760
[Paul Tyler]: set up but i think i’m going to have him tune those colors up a little more take
1060
00:56:25,840 –> 00:56:30,160
[Paul Tyler]: the hues up so we have a gray one but let’s take it up i agree with you we need
1061
00:56:29,940 –> 00:56:30,940
[Paul Tyler]: more of a
1062
00:56:31,660 –> 00:56:32,660
[Paul Tyler]: it seems like a very
1063
00:56:34,080 –> 00:56:38,880
[Paul Tyler]: yeah it’s too i don’t know it’s different it’ll definitely look different than
1064
00:56:39,040 –> 00:56:43,520
[Paul Tyler]: anything else that’s on the yeah yeah and it’s legible and i think it’ll appeal to
1065
00:56:43,600 –> 00:56:45,840
[Paul Tyler]: end and i think we can animate some of those characters
1066
00:56:46,420 –> 00:56:47,420
[Paul Tyler]: so
1067
00:56:48,400 –> 00:56:53,280
[Paul Tyler]: how what’s her name jessica ho her down i haven’t seen any emails come back let’s
1068
00:56:53,280 –> 00:56:58,240
[Paul Tyler]: see an emailer today to reach out towar and see kind of touch base introduce
1069
00:56:58,320 –> 00:57:01,920
[Paul Tyler]: yourself find out about the speakers yeah find find out where we are
1070
00:57:02,980 –> 00:57:03,980
[Paul Tyler]: now
1071
00:57:05,280 –> 00:57:06,640
[Paul Tyler]: we line them up i think
1072
00:57:07,620 –> 00:57:08,620
[Paul Tyler]: um
1073
00:57:09,840 –> 00:57:13,840
[Paul Tyler]: you know if we could telling actually if we could lock them all up in a week we
1074
00:57:13,920 –> 00:57:18,800
[Paul Tyler]: could bundle them up say ten of them and that could be our initial launch you know
1075
00:57:19,120 –> 00:57:25,200
[Paul Tyler]: for you know we load three or four and then push out a couple others later i don’t
1076
00:57:25,200 –> 00:57:29,440
[Paul Tyler]: know think about what that launch may be because we could do this all probably in
1077
00:57:29,520 –> 00:57:34,000
[Paul Tyler]: one set and push it up there you want to do the podcast release weekly or you do
1078
00:57:34,080 –> 00:57:38,480
[Paul Tyler]: it by week i don’t know i would think so sometimes when they i i think you talked
1079
00:57:38,480 –> 00:57:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: to jessica about how they will push and promote it
1080
00:57:42,880 –> 00:57:47,040
[Paul Tyler]: but when we apply for you know apple and stuff to get in there there’s a process
1081
00:57:47,360 –> 00:57:50,400
[Paul Tyler]: it’s super easy and lets them to sort of set up a new podcast
1082
00:57:51,680 –> 00:57:56,320
[Paul Tyler]: however i didn’t actually do the approval process for apple so it’s kind of like
1083
00:57:56,400 –> 00:58:00,960
[Paul Tyler]: you have to put it all together and then apply to apple to be listed and i have
1084
00:58:01,040 –> 00:58:04,400
[Paul Tyler]: not if you could kind of investigate that that is what we paid this other firm to
1085
00:58:04,480 –> 00:58:07,760
[Paul Tyler]: do for us you know and we used them once yeah
1086
00:58:08,800 –> 00:58:11,360
[Paul Tyler]: yeah that different versus
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00:58:13,600 –> 00:58:17,120
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah yeah it’s it’s different but it’s similar because you have to get listed
1088
00:58:17,280 –> 00:58:20,800
[Paul Tyler]: i’m not sure if they need five episodes or six episodes they just kind of want i
1089
00:58:21,040 –> 00:58:23,120
[Paul Tyler]: think they listen or screen through and say are you
1090
00:58:24,720 –> 00:58:27,280
[Paul Tyler]: doing anything offensive for something
1091
00:58:30,320 –> 00:58:35,520
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah so and then let’s figure out like is this a one time thing or you know
1092
00:58:35,680 –> 00:58:38,800
[Paul Tyler]: does it keep going oh guess what speak of the devil j
1093
00:58:39,920 –> 00:58:42,640
[Paul Tyler]: jw trub just sent an email through it jay says
1094
00:58:44,820 –> 00:58:45,820
[Paul Tyler]: hey
1095
00:58:46,640 –> 00:58:48,080
[Paul Tyler]: inclusive of age tech
1096
00:58:51,200 –> 00:58:53,120
[Paul Tyler]: wanna see if we align this with the event
1097
00:58:59,900 –> 00:59:00,900
[Paul Tyler]: like innovation st
1098
00:59:02,160 –> 00:59:04,720
[Paul Tyler]: yeah a little broader and then like line it up there
1099
00:59:06,000 –> 00:59:07,520
[Paul Tyler]: yeah do you want let’s see
1100
00:59:09,360 –> 00:59:11,440
[Paul Tyler]: sure like like i think the answer is
1101
00:59:13,280 –> 00:59:17,120
[Paul Tyler]: meds up if we get line with this event you don’t have to by any account
1102
00:59:19,680 –> 00:59:20,880
[Paul Tyler]: yeah absolutely
1103
00:59:22,400 –> 00:59:24,960
[Paul Tyler]: absolutely um absolutely how closely
1104
00:59:26,420 –> 00:59:27,420
[Paul Tyler]: absolutely
1105
00:59:30,080 –> 00:59:32,000
[Paul Tyler]: how closely would you want want it
1106
00:59:34,880 –> 00:59:37,360
[Paul Tyler]: how closely would you want this
1107
00:59:39,360 –> 00:59:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: to a lot to align with your event you know
1108
00:59:44,320 –> 00:59:45,440
[Paul Tyler]: you know i eat you know
1109
00:59:47,460 –> 00:59:48,460
[Paul Tyler]: levels
1110
00:59:49,980 –> 00:59:50,980
[Paul Tyler]: could be
1111
00:59:51,900 –> 00:59:52,900
[Paul Tyler]: you know
1112
00:59:53,580 –> 00:59:54,580
[Paul Tyler]: colors
1113
00:59:55,680 –> 01:00:00,800
[Paul Tyler]: um is us a really nice yeah inclusion you know you know i’d say cut your e you
1114
01:00:00,340 –> 01:00:01,340
[Paul Tyler]: know
1115
01:00:02,560 –> 01:00:04,960
[Paul Tyler]: your color palate around that n
1116
01:00:06,960 –> 01:00:08,880
[Paul Tyler]: you know include you know your you know
1117
01:00:09,620 –> 01:00:10,620
[Paul Tyler]: and
1118
01:00:15,380 –> 01:00:16,380
[Paul Tyler]: mediterranean name
1119
01:00:17,860 –> 01:00:18,860
[Paul Tyler]: mediterranean
1120
01:00:21,620 –> 01:00:22,620
[Paul Tyler]: name
1121
01:00:23,600 –> 01:00:24,880
[Paul Tyler]: include your medicare name
1122
01:00:27,140 –> 01:00:28,140
[Paul Tyler]: in the show
1123
01:00:34,080 –> 01:00:35,920
[Paul Tyler]: like it in the right end or in the reader
1124
01:00:37,580 –> 01:00:38,580
[Paul Tyler]: yeah um
1125
01:00:39,820 –> 01:00:40,820
[Paul Tyler]: you know partnership
1126
01:00:45,060 –> 01:00:46,060
[Paul Tyler]: eight
1127
01:00:52,720 –> 01:00:57,280
[Paul Tyler]: i checked him out on linkedin that looks like he’s like the entrepreneur oh he is
1128
01:00:59,420 –> 01:01:00,420
[Paul Tyler]: happy to
1129
01:01:01,440 –> 01:01:04,400
[Paul Tyler]: email s name too quick zoom
1130
01:01:08,560 –> 01:01:11,760
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so when you can you cook start looking at page check
1131
01:01:13,060 –> 01:01:14,060
[Paul Tyler]: a check
1132
01:01:14,880 –> 01:01:18,800
[Paul Tyler]: might be a nice tian you to re imagine it could be it it really could it really
1133
01:01:18,960 –> 01:01:20,400
[Paul Tyler]: could here so um
1134
01:01:22,080 –> 01:01:24,800
[Paul Tyler]: so so we have to think like let’s see what the answer is but there’s like is the
1135
01:01:24,880 –> 01:01:27,040
[Paul Tyler]: age tech or is it you know
1136
01:01:31,020 –> 01:01:32,020
[Paul Tyler]: health and
1137
01:01:33,780 –> 01:01:34,780
[Paul Tyler]: senior health
1138
01:01:36,300 –> 01:01:37,300
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah
1139
01:01:38,400 –> 01:01:43,200
[Paul Tyler]: to see home age tax sounds better i’d rather oh i do a senior health care podcast
1140
01:01:46,800 –> 01:01:49,040
[Paul Tyler]: right yeah no i agree yeah
1141
01:01:50,320 –> 01:01:53,200
[Paul Tyler]: um okay i’ll do some research around that yeah
1142
01:01:56,720 –> 01:01:59,840
[Paul Tyler]: because it could be just a limited thing man we’re just doing it this i’m looking
1143
01:02:00,000 –> 01:02:02,080
[Paul Tyler]: at this is like get us in the door with these people
1144
01:02:03,100 –> 01:02:04,100
[Paul Tyler]: absolutely
1145
01:02:05,260 –> 01:02:06,260
[Paul Tyler]: alright
1146
01:02:08,320 –> 01:02:13,360
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see oh for he kudos to you for taking these courses ashley i wish everybody
1147
01:02:13,680 –> 01:02:15,120
[Paul Tyler]: were doing what you’re doing okay
1148
01:02:16,400 –> 01:02:20,640
[Paul Tyler]: um i i would like you to take people through that write up that you did on the um
1149
01:02:20,800 –> 01:02:24,480
[Paul Tyler]: social media examiner thing what was your like what were the big like you know the
1150
01:02:24,560 –> 01:02:28,640
[Paul Tyler]: things you say i’m like we should be doing you know x y and z like what’s the
1151
01:02:28,960 –> 01:02:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: what’s the we’re doing the lot of it i think’s room for enhancement in a lot of
1152
01:02:32,800 –> 01:02:35,600
[Paul Tyler]: what we’re doing so like the things that really stuck out to me obviously videos
1153
01:02:36,000 –> 01:02:41,920
[Paul Tyler]: came so yeah look for the short short form video is a big deal clearly through tip
1154
01:02:42,080 –> 01:02:46,080
[Paul Tyler]: top and instagram because that’s the way like the whole world is working so they
1155
01:02:46,320 –> 01:02:48,160
[Paul Tyler]: talked about trends that they’re seeing in
1156
01:02:49,360 –> 01:02:53,600
[Paul Tyler]: like when instagram releases things or facebook meta releases things
1157
01:02:54,800 –> 01:02:59,280
[Paul Tyler]: be clues about what they’re looking for right um video is a huge one so they’re
1158
01:02:59,280 –> 01:03:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: moving away from picture towards video the other thing i thought was interesting
1159
01:03:03,920 –> 01:03:05,600
[Paul Tyler]: was they didn’t mention twitter at all
1160
01:03:06,640 –> 01:03:10,800
[Paul Tyler]: yeah there was one word about not one session about twitter
1161
01:03:12,240 –> 01:03:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: that was super interesting they did talk about long form video coming back on
1162
01:03:15,520 –> 01:03:18,800
[Paul Tyler]: youtube and how to kind of work around that and what to do there
1163
01:03:19,700 –> 01:03:20,700
[Paul Tyler]: um
1164
01:03:22,800 –> 01:03:25,200
[Paul Tyler]: you know it was huge that was like the big big takeaway
1165
01:03:27,600 –> 01:03:29,840
[Paul Tyler]: current parent making yourself trustworthy right
1166
01:03:30,880 –> 01:03:34,160
[Paul Tyler]: things that we don’t understand just made very clear
1167
01:03:35,920 –> 01:03:40,720
[Paul Tyler]: right so i i i guess the qu you know the question i was struggle with is okay how
1168
01:03:40,800 –> 01:03:43,920
[Paul Tyler]: much of this is you know do we do this for the consumer
1169
01:03:45,280 –> 01:03:50,720
[Paul Tyler]: versus how much it is for the agent and we you know for the community we tie into
1170
01:03:51,520 –> 01:03:55,040
[Paul Tyler]: right absolutely go for an instagram we need an instagram account for our company
1171
01:03:57,120 –> 01:04:01,360
[Paul Tyler]: to you so i started setting it up this morning do you wanna go with a user name
1172
01:04:01,680 –> 01:04:05,040
[Paul Tyler]: nasa financial group or would you like to go if user named nasa careers
1173
01:04:07,120 –> 01:04:10,400
[Paul Tyler]: i thought that an group is what we use on everything else even though we’re not
1174
01:04:10,540 –> 01:04:11,540
[Paul Tyler]: like we go
1175
01:04:12,720 –> 01:04:16,960
[Paul Tyler]: oh i know and then and then fi and phil wants somehow has got this nasa annuities
1176
01:04:17,100 –> 01:04:18,100
[Paul Tyler]: in his head right
1177
01:04:20,000 –> 01:04:21,840
[Paul Tyler]: which is terrifying to me but that’s okay
1178
01:04:26,140 –> 01:04:27,140
[Paul Tyler]: yeah um
1179
01:04:28,720 –> 01:04:31,280
[Paul Tyler]: the only worry i have about care is is
1180
01:04:32,480 –> 01:04:36,880
[Paul Tyler]: it feels like i you know i i don’t want to get us in the hook of its you know
1181
01:04:40,480 –> 01:04:43,760
[Paul Tyler]: because i remember when this popped up i think it’s popped up right around the the
1182
01:04:43,840 –> 01:04:49,120
[Paul Tyler]: pandemic a little bit before when everybody’s using a hashtag travelers cares
1183
01:04:51,200 –> 01:04:54,000
[Paul Tyler]: i didn’t know about that yeah yeah like i think
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