Listen
Watch
Receive Updates
Show Sponsors
Tanscript
1
00:00:05,819 –> 00:00:10,699
[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and
2
00:00:12,059 –> 00:00:14,539
[Paul Tyler]: this is a special one but sometimes you know we have
3
00:00:15,899 –> 00:00:21,499
[Paul Tyler]: interviews with guest ramsey that beg for a part two and this certainly was the
4
00:00:21,499 –> 00:00:26,779
[Paul Tyler]: case for an interview we did about a month and a half ago do you wanna set it up
5
00:00:27,437 –> 00:00:34,237
[Ramsey Smith]: sure so we had jason fitch on about a month and a half ago and we talked about a
6
00:00:34,317 –> 00:00:38,877
[Ramsey Smith]: number of amazing subjects including social security and we just got
7
00:00:38,939 –> 00:00:40,059
[Paul Tyler]: let talking about
8
00:00:39,037 –> 00:00:44,157
[Ramsey Smith]: started talking about mortgages and decisions sets around mortgages
9
00:00:45,197 –> 00:00:48,317
[Ramsey Smith]: and today we’re going to continue that conversation when we left off so just to
10
00:00:48,317 –> 00:00:50,717
[Ramsey Smith]: reintroduce jason he is the
11
00:00:50,559 –> 00:00:51,559
[Paul Tyler]: like
12
00:00:50,797 –> 00:00:55,917
[Ramsey Smith]: vice president chief economist at the bipartisan policy center and he’s a senior
13
00:00:55,997 –> 00:00:58,957
[Ramsey Smith]: fellow for the alliance for lifetime income so he and the
14
00:00:58,559 –> 00:00:59,559
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
15
00:00:59,037 –> 00:01:03,357
[Ramsey Smith]: alliance have been great friends of great friends of the show and we’re just happy
16
00:01:03,597 –> 00:01:05,437
[Ramsey Smith]: to have them back so jason welcome back
17
00:01:05,359 –> 00:01:06,359
[Paul Tyler]: back and
18
00:01:05,917 –> 00:01:09,917
[Ramsey Smith]: and like just first of all like for for people that are new in the
19
00:01:09,719 –> 00:01:10,719
[Paul Tyler]: the audience
20
00:01:09,997 –> 00:01:15,117
[Ramsey Smith]: audience or for people that are that are coming back just remind us again that you
21
00:01:15,197 –> 00:01:17,997
[Ramsey Smith]: know the things that the work that you’re doing for
22
00:01:19,037 –> 00:01:23,197
[Ramsey Smith]: for the alliance and for the bipartisan policy center and let’s get right into it
23
00:01:23,137 –> 00:01:24,137
[Ramsey Smith]: on mortgages
24
00:01:24,160 –> 00:01:27,120
[Jason Fitcher]: awesome well thank you both for having me back it’s good great to see you and
25
00:01:27,360 –> 00:01:29,280
[Jason Fitcher]: again and looking forward to the conversation
26
00:01:30,560 –> 00:01:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: my responsibilities and roles you know my fun
27
00:01:32,959 –> 00:01:33,959
[Paul Tyler]: what
28
00:01:33,520 –> 00:01:37,520
[Jason Fitcher]: job if you will is to help people have a financially secure retirement that’s
29
00:01:37,119 –> 00:01:38,119
[Paul Tyler]: oh
30
00:01:37,600 –> 00:01:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: kind of my mission in life and i get to do that both the bipartisan policy center
31
00:01:41,600 –> 00:01:46,560
[Jason Fitcher]: and at the alliance for lifetime income and it’s talking about protected income
32
00:01:46,960 –> 00:01:51,520
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s an understanding of how to help people be more secure in retirement when
33
00:01:51,680 –> 00:01:54,960
[Jason Fitcher]: thinking about protected income and that just does not just mean annuities which
34
00:01:55,040 –> 00:01:57,920
[Jason Fitcher]: you talked about last time it’s also social security which is a form protected
35
00:01:58,000 –> 00:02:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: income and it’s helping people understand what the role of social security and
36
00:02:02,000 –> 00:02:07,280
[Jason Fitcher]: other protected income means for having a financially secure retirement one in
37
00:02:07,360 –> 00:02:08,880
[Jason Fitcher]: which they can spend and
38
00:02:08,737 –> 00:02:09,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yes
39
00:02:09,120 –> 00:02:13,920
[Jason Fitcher]: enjoy retirement and one in which they can mitigate risks and too often we’ve been
40
00:02:14,080 –> 00:02:18,880
[Jason Fitcher]: brought up on this culture of you need to save save sake which i’m very in favor
41
00:02:18,960 –> 00:02:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: of you need to maximize your return which i’m also in favor of but we don’t often
42
00:02:22,560 –> 00:02:26,880
[Jason Fitcher]: talk about what the risks are and we help people save for retirement through our
43
00:02:26,880 –> 00:02:29,680
[Jason Fitcher]: four hundred one thousand plans our four hundred three bs and iras we have
44
00:02:29,760 –> 00:02:33,600
[Jason Fitcher]: employer sponsored plans we have a lot of tax advantages people get to retirement
45
00:02:33,680 –> 00:02:37,920
[Jason Fitcher]: we say have a nice day and they’re looking around for help and what do they do now
46
00:02:38,080 –> 00:02:41,920
[Jason Fitcher]: with these defined contribution assets they built up they were afraid of spending
47
00:02:42,000 –> 00:02:44,640
[Jason Fitcher]: them down and running out of money retirement how do we
48
00:02:44,257 –> 00:02:45,257
[Ramsey Smith]: so
49
00:02:44,720 –> 00:02:50,000
[Jason Fitcher]: help them psychologically and financially make sure they can draw down that income
50
00:02:50,080 –> 00:02:52,800
[Jason Fitcher]: appropriately whether it’s through protected income strategies like annuities
51
00:02:52,880 –> 00:02:56,720
[Jason Fitcher]: whether it’s drawdown strategies whether it’s thinking about debt and what does it
52
00:02:56,720 –> 00:02:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: do with debt levels because that’s very important both from a financial standpoint
53
00:03:00,160 –> 00:03:04,240
[Jason Fitcher]: and a psychological level how do we help them have the best retirement and we can
54
00:03:04,240 –> 00:03:07,680
[Jason Fitcher]: do that with the funding our future campaign we have the bipartisan policy center
55
00:03:07,920 –> 00:03:10,480
[Jason Fitcher]: and the alliance to lifetime income and the research were doing at the retirement
56
00:03:10,480 –> 00:03:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: income institute and we had a great discussion last time so for the new audience
57
00:03:14,560 –> 00:03:18,240
[Jason Fitcher]: members who didn’t listen please pull up the last episode about a month and a half
58
00:03:18,240 –> 00:03:21,760
[Jason Fitcher]: ago and we left it off we ran out of time but we were talking about whether or not
59
00:03:21,840 –> 00:03:24,560
[Jason Fitcher]: people should pay off their mortgage and retirement and i had mentioned some
60
00:03:24,640 –> 00:03:28,720
[Jason Fitcher]: previous research i had done that showed that with each successive generation less
61
00:03:29,360 –> 00:03:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: people are paying off their mortgage before they enter retirement and what does
62
00:03:32,720 –> 00:03:35,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that mean do you have some financial professionals telling you of course interest
63
00:03:35,820 –> 00:03:36,820
[Jason Fitcher]: rates are low you
64
00:03:36,497 –> 00:03:37,497
[Ramsey Smith]: yep
65
00:03:36,880 –> 00:03:40,480
[Jason Fitcher]: shouldn’t pay it off invest that money someplace else others are saying you want
66
00:03:40,640 –> 00:03:44,560
[Jason Fitcher]: to risk a less risky retirement pay off your house and use that investment in that
67
00:03:44,640 –> 00:03:48,640
[Jason Fitcher]: cash or something else what do you do and that’s where we left and we’re hoping to
68
00:03:48,720 –> 00:03:49,760
[Jason Fitcher]: tee it off again today
69
00:03:51,339 –> 00:03:56,059
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well and i guess for most people right if you said what are the biggest
70
00:03:56,139 –> 00:03:59,339
[Paul Tyler]: assets in retirement it would be number one probably social security
71
00:04:01,179 –> 00:04:05,179
[Paul Tyler]: probably number two would be any equity you have in your house and maybe you know
72
00:04:05,179 –> 00:04:08,059
[Paul Tyler]: if you’re lucky you’ve got a four hundred one thousand jason is that is that kind
73
00:04:08,059 –> 00:04:09,499
[Paul Tyler]: of the right way to think about it
74
00:04:09,060 –> 00:04:10,060
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
75
00:04:09,777 –> 00:04:10,777
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah think about
76
00:04:09,920 –> 00:04:13,760
[Jason Fitcher]: to think about when you think about an asset and retirement so the the beauty of
77
00:04:13,840 –> 00:04:17,840
[Jason Fitcher]: social security is it pays your scheme of income but it’s not giving you a lump su
78
00:04:18,000 –> 00:04:21,360
[Jason Fitcher]: so you can’t go to social security right now and say hello i’m sixty seven i would
79
00:04:21,440 –> 00:04:25,200
[Jason Fitcher]: like my lifetime have income as a lu sum and then you think of an asset you think
80
00:04:25,280 –> 00:04:29,600
[Jason Fitcher]: of it as an income stream but you are right to talk about it as an asset the
81
00:04:29,359 –> 00:04:30,359
[Paul Tyler]: no
82
00:04:29,760 –> 00:04:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: house and your four one k you see as a lump sum but you can convert that into an
83
00:04:33,920 –> 00:04:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: income stream and that’s where you we start thinking about how do we use this kind
84
00:04:36,880 –> 00:04:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: of assets to create protected income or income streams that would help people have
85
00:04:40,880 –> 00:04:44,240
[Jason Fitcher]: their most financially secure retirement but those are the three biggest and
86
00:04:44,320 –> 00:04:47,360
[Jason Fitcher]: actually for most people when you think about the lump sum amount like what you
87
00:04:47,060 –> 00:04:48,060
[Jason Fitcher]: actually
88
00:04:47,279 –> 00:04:48,279
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
89
00:04:47,680 –> 00:04:51,760
[Jason Fitcher]: can convert to cash today it usually is the house that’s bigger than the four one
90
00:04:51,920 –> 00:04:56,160
[Jason Fitcher]: k plan for most people that is their primary asset going into retirement so how
91
00:04:56,320 –> 00:04:59,360
[Jason Fitcher]: they utilize that asset when they do with that is very very important for
92
00:04:59,680 –> 00:05:00,880
[Jason Fitcher]: financial security and retirement
93
00:05:02,379 –> 00:05:07,259
[Paul Tyler]: yeah now i f i probably fall on the extreme when it comes to homes and it’s
94
00:05:07,339 –> 00:05:12,859
[Paul Tyler]: interesting what shapes your perspective of ris jason your smack on i i don’t
95
00:05:12,859 –> 00:05:16,939
[Paul Tyler]: think we talked about this like my mother’s a small business person and i would
96
00:05:17,019 –> 00:05:18,539
[Paul Tyler]: say she never should have been
97
00:05:19,399 –> 00:05:20,399
[Paul Tyler]: it was
98
00:05:21,339 –> 00:05:25,819
[Paul Tyler]: and we we frankly grown up had it was it was rough you know we had a couple times
99
00:05:25,819 –> 00:05:30,379
[Paul Tyler]: when our house was close to being repossessed because she got too far over skis
100
00:05:30,279 –> 00:05:31,279
[Paul Tyler]: with work
101
00:05:32,219 –> 00:05:36,699
[Paul Tyler]: and mortgages so there’s nothing coming home to see like auction notices on your
102
00:05:36,859 –> 00:05:43,019
[Paul Tyler]: door to say okay this will never happen and so you know i i i’m somebody who opted
103
00:05:43,099 –> 00:05:45,179
[Paul Tyler]: for the smaller house was paid off
104
00:05:46,097 –> 00:05:47,097
[Ramsey Smith]: no
105
00:05:47,339 –> 00:05:50,459
[Paul Tyler]: i’ve always adjacent had friends and rams you’re probably in the other you know
106
00:05:51,019 –> 00:05:57,179
[Paul Tyler]: probably from more from a a more risk uh have a better view of the risk but jason
107
00:05:57,179 –> 00:05:59,499
[Paul Tyler]: i had friends saying you’ve got to be kidding me you know in the real estate
108
00:05:59,499 –> 00:06:03,979
[Paul Tyler]: market unlv property is an asset that’s just going to waste
109
00:06:06,139 –> 00:06:07,499
[Paul Tyler]: how do you how do you think about risk
110
00:06:08,539 –> 00:06:12,219
[Paul Tyler]: like especially you’re they’re in going getting closer retirement
111
00:06:12,400 –> 00:06:17,680
[Jason Fitcher]: so this is i always found the buying a house the process so much backwards than
112
00:06:17,760 –> 00:06:22,080
[Jason Fitcher]: say buying a car so if if you were to go buy a car and if buying a car today’s
113
00:06:22,160 –> 00:06:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: environment is a lot harder because of supply chain issues so the prices are
114
00:06:24,800 –> 00:06:29,680
[Jason Fitcher]: higher but usually you went to buy a car the salesman ask you paul ramsey how much
115
00:06:29,840 –> 00:06:33,440
[Jason Fitcher]: do you want to pay a month for your car what would the best answer be
116
00:06:35,677 –> 00:06:37,517
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know six hundred dollars a month
117
00:06:37,600 –> 00:06:39,680
[Jason Fitcher]: well i’d like to say zero right i’d like to
118
00:06:39,760 –> 00:06:41,360
[Jason Fitcher]: pay zero but that’s not the option
119
00:06:39,777 –> 00:06:40,777
[Ramsey Smith]: okay well
120
00:06:41,297 –> 00:06:42,297
[Ramsey Smith]: okay
121
00:06:42,240 –> 00:06:45,200
[Jason Fitcher]: right so you say zero but then you know but some people say well i pay four
122
00:06:45,360 –> 00:06:49,840
[Jason Fitcher]: hundred dollars so the dealer finds a way to fit you into the most expensive car
123
00:06:50,320 –> 00:06:53,840
[Jason Fitcher]: for four hundred dollars by doing what when they could extend the terms of a loan
124
00:06:53,777 –> 00:06:54,777
[Ramsey Smith]: sure
125
00:06:54,220 –> 00:06:55,220
[Jason Fitcher]: so one of
126
00:06:54,719 –> 00:06:55,719
[Paul Tyler]: what
127
00:06:55,120 –> 00:06:59,120
[Jason Fitcher]: the even though we’re talking about housing debt think about card debt so my
128
00:06:59,280 –> 00:07:03,440
[Jason Fitcher]: grandparents always paid cash for their car then you started getting loans out so
129
00:07:03,520 –> 00:07:08,800
[Jason Fitcher]: the average term for a loan used to be three years then four then five now it’s
130
00:07:08,660 –> 00:07:09,660
[Jason Fitcher]: seven years
131
00:07:09,519 –> 00:07:10,519
[Paul Tyler]: seven
132
00:07:09,820 –> 00:07:10,820
[Jason Fitcher]: so people
133
00:07:10,537 –> 00:07:11,537
[Ramsey Smith]: for a car really
134
00:07:10,640 –> 00:07:12,800
[Jason Fitcher]: are taking out for a car so now
135
00:07:12,537 –> 00:07:13,537
[Ramsey Smith]: wow
136
00:07:13,040 –> 00:07:16,560
[Jason Fitcher]: people are taking our seven year mortgages for a car and some people don’t own the
137
00:07:16,560 –> 00:07:20,640
[Jason Fitcher]: car longs when they go to get a new car they’re actually under water they owe more
138
00:07:20,720 –> 00:07:24,240
[Jason Fitcher]: than the resale residual value of the car is and the deal’s like don’t worry you
139
00:07:24,240 –> 00:07:27,280
[Jason Fitcher]: want to pay five hundred dollars a month we’ll just roll that balance into the
140
00:07:27,360 –> 00:07:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: next slow so they keep getting further and further under water with debt by
141
00:07:31,360 –> 00:07:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: getting new cars so the house sort of works
142
00:07:33,617 –> 00:07:34,617
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
143
00:07:33,920 –> 00:07:37,200
[Jason Fitcher]: in the same way but backwards we go in and people say look mortgage rates are
144
00:07:37,200 –> 00:07:42,000
[Jason Fitcher]: lower because the rates are lower now you can afford to buy more house so let’s
145
00:07:42,080 –> 00:07:45,600
[Jason Fitcher]: get a more expensive house a bigger house because the rates are down we can keep
146
00:07:45,140 –> 00:07:46,140
[Jason Fitcher]: your
147
00:07:45,337 –> 00:07:46,337
[Ramsey Smith]: aw
148
00:07:45,760 –> 00:07:49,840
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage payment slower you’re like this is a fantastic deal or out doo it so now
149
00:07:49,920 –> 00:07:53,760
[Jason Fitcher]: people have been buying bigger houses more expensive houses with lower rates as
150
00:07:53,920 –> 00:07:57,120
[Jason Fitcher]: rates go up better of course changes housing becomes more expensive than might the
151
00:07:57,200 –> 00:07:59,040
[Jason Fitcher]: downsize but we’ve created a generation
152
00:07:59,017 –> 00:08:00,017
[Ramsey Smith]: generation
153
00:07:59,120 –> 00:08:03,120
[Jason Fitcher]: of people who are used through lower interest rates and buying bigger houses are
154
00:08:03,520 –> 00:08:05,200
[Jason Fitcher]: they gonna be under water are they gonna pay them
155
00:08:05,057 –> 00:08:06,057
[Ramsey Smith]: harder
156
00:08:05,280 –> 00:08:07,040
[Jason Fitcher]: off they gonna keep using revolving credit
157
00:08:08,080 –> 00:08:11,680
[Jason Fitcher]: this is the problem with risk and again we might be more comfortable with debt now
158
00:08:11,760 –> 00:08:15,840
[Jason Fitcher]: we we take out debt for a lot of things and i now see online when i go
159
00:08:15,577 –> 00:08:16,577
[Ramsey Smith]: so that
160
00:08:15,920 –> 00:08:19,920
[Jason Fitcher]: to amazon it says do you want to pay this in four quarterly installments and i’m
161
00:08:20,000 –> 00:08:24,640
[Jason Fitcher]: like no i don’ i i but i still put it on a credit card and it’s it’s a much
162
00:08:24,800 –> 00:08:28,240
[Jason Fitcher]: different psychological thing if you have to go and pay cash out of your wallet
163
00:08:28,400 –> 00:08:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: with everything you buy than just putting it on plastic or clicking your apple
164
00:08:32,320 –> 00:08:35,120
[Jason Fitcher]: watch or using an auto paes through a credit
165
00:08:35,057 –> 00:08:36,057
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s right
166
00:08:35,360 –> 00:08:38,240
[Jason Fitcher]: card where then you get a month they’re like wait how much should i spend how did
167
00:08:38,240 –> 00:08:41,920
[Jason Fitcher]: i do this so this is where we’ve gotten used to credit we’ve gotten used to
168
00:08:42,160 –> 00:08:47,200
[Jason Fitcher]: spending we’ve gotten used to low interest rates and we’ve carried that retirement
169
00:08:47,440 –> 00:08:50,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so when i did some research looking at what was called the health retirement
170
00:08:50,400 –> 00:08:54,080
[Jason Fitcher]: survey health return study through the university of michigan they look at those
171
00:08:54,160 –> 00:08:57,840
[Jason Fitcher]: who are fifty and older with each successive generations they track people so we
172
00:08:58,000 –> 00:09:01,280
[Jason Fitcher]: can look at the you know the world war ii generation we can go up to the baby
173
00:09:01,360 –> 00:09:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: boomers with each generation they’re taking a higher level of debt into retirement
174
00:09:06,720 –> 00:09:11,040
[Jason Fitcher]: and less of them are paying off their houses going into retirement it used to be
175
00:09:11,120 –> 00:09:14,320
[Jason Fitcher]: you were told you know you when you basically retire pay off your house because
176
00:09:14,400 –> 00:09:17,520
[Jason Fitcher]: one as you said paul that’s sort of your biggest if not the biggest asset
177
00:09:17,680 –> 00:09:21,760
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement but two think about your current budget constraints so everyone who is
178
00:09:21,920 –> 00:09:25,840
[Jason Fitcher]: listening on this call right now think about your expenses what are you paying out
179
00:09:25,920 –> 00:09:27,200
[Jason Fitcher]: a month for food
180
00:09:27,719 –> 00:09:28,719
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see
181
00:09:28,160 –> 00:09:31,920
[Jason Fitcher]: for utilities for your cell phone for your cable my guess
182
00:09:31,599 –> 00:09:32,599
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
183
00:09:32,560 –> 00:09:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: is that the largest expense people have or at least most people is mortgage or
184
00:09:36,880 –> 00:09:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: their rent housing is the biggest expense what if that expense was gone in
185
00:09:41,360 –> 00:09:46,000
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement that frees up a lot of extra income source income whether it’s coming
186
00:09:46,080 –> 00:09:49,600
[Jason Fitcher]: from social security or from annuity or from your investments to use someplace
187
00:09:49,760 –> 00:09:52,080
[Jason Fitcher]: else you minimize risk if you carry
188
00:09:51,777 –> 00:09:52,777
[Ramsey Smith]: hear
189
00:09:52,160 –> 00:09:55,280
[Jason Fitcher]: that mortgage with you into retirement you’ve got to pay it and if you get
190
00:09:55,337 –> 00:09:56,337
[Ramsey Smith]: get down the
191
00:09:55,360 –> 00:09:58,400
[Jason Fitcher]: a downturn in the market or there is a hell shock or you get a shock in your
192
00:09:58,177 –> 00:09:59,177
[Ramsey Smith]: years ago
193
00:09:58,560 –> 00:10:02,720
[Jason Fitcher]: income do you want to get kicked out of your house we’re seeing more bankruptcies
194
00:10:02,720 –> 00:10:06,480
[Jason Fitcher]: in retirement because of housing than we have previously this is where we need to
195
00:10:06,560 –> 00:10:08,480
[Jason Fitcher]: start thinking about reframing our discussion
196
00:10:08,399 –> 00:10:09,399
[Paul Tyler]: excuse me
197
00:10:08,720 –> 00:10:12,960
[Jason Fitcher]: around risk mitigation retirement and not necessarily trying to have the biggest
198
00:10:13,040 –> 00:10:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: and greatest yield you can get off your assets
199
00:10:16,477 –> 00:10:21,997
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah that makes a lot of sense i mean it it is it is it’s remarkable and
200
00:10:16,539 –> 00:10:17,739
[Paul Tyler]: yeah that makes a lot of stuff
201
00:10:21,839 –> 00:10:22,839
[Paul Tyler]: father had
202
00:10:22,157 –> 00:10:25,277
[Ramsey Smith]: problematic that decisions are made based on
203
00:10:25,919 –> 00:10:26,919
[Paul Tyler]: how about you
204
00:10:26,157 –> 00:10:30,717
[Ramsey Smith]: how much i can fund how much the how much the bank at any given point in time will
205
00:10:30,797 –> 00:10:35,197
[Ramsey Smith]: let you fund as opposed to what your utility is now if your
206
00:10:35,039 –> 00:10:36,039
[Paul Tyler]: no
207
00:10:35,357 –> 00:10:39,357
[Ramsey Smith]: utility happens to be you know in the same place and then
208
00:10:39,119 –> 00:10:40,119
[Paul Tyler]: maybe
209
00:10:39,517 –> 00:10:44,557
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe maybe there’s some other sort of reward for for buying the bigger house but
210
00:10:39,517 –> 00:10:44,557
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe maybe there’s some other sort of reward for for buying the bigger house but
211
00:10:44,337 –> 00:10:45,337
[Ramsey Smith]: you know
212
00:10:44,337 –> 00:10:45,337
[Ramsey Smith]: you know
213
00:10:46,077 –> 00:10:48,797
[Ramsey Smith]: in my mind right you’re taking on a lot
214
00:10:48,479 –> 00:10:49,479
[Paul Tyler]: that
215
00:10:48,877 –> 00:10:52,157
[Ramsey Smith]: of ex for risk without any true incremental utility
216
00:10:53,277 –> 00:10:57,117
[Ramsey Smith]: and i think that people could put themselves could avoid
217
00:10:56,759 –> 00:10:57,759
[Paul Tyler]: a lot
218
00:10:57,197 –> 00:11:01,277
[Ramsey Smith]: a lot of issues if if they if they thought about it they thought about it that way
219
00:11:01,437 –> 00:11:04,957
[Ramsey Smith]: because then they’re forced to downsize later and it might not be in a good market
220
00:11:05,377 –> 00:11:06,377
[Ramsey Smith]: so
221
00:11:05,799 –> 00:11:06,799
[Paul Tyler]: well i
222
00:11:06,477 –> 00:11:09,597
[Ramsey Smith]: i think this is a very good discussion for for precisely those reasons
223
00:11:09,339 –> 00:11:11,259
[Paul Tyler]: yeah no jason the calculation
224
00:11:11,940 –> 00:11:12,940
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
225
00:11:12,619 –> 00:11:14,059
[Paul Tyler]: has shifted three if
226
00:11:14,317 –> 00:11:16,557
[Ramsey Smith]: um i studies at is rural
227
00:11:14,379 –> 00:11:17,819
[Paul Tyler]: let me put the step back if i were you know sixty six
228
00:11:18,059 –> 00:11:20,459
[Paul Tyler]: sixty seven owned a house with a mortgage
229
00:11:18,177 –> 00:11:19,177
[Ramsey Smith]: what is
230
00:11:21,819 –> 00:11:26,059
[Paul Tyler]: the calculus has changed so so dramatically over the last two years pre pandemic
231
00:11:26,539 –> 00:11:29,979
[Paul Tyler]: you know a lot of suburbs real estate market was down you probably had lost equity
232
00:11:29,759 –> 00:11:30,759
[Paul Tyler]: in your house
233
00:11:31,537 –> 00:11:32,537
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s w
234
00:11:31,739 –> 00:11:37,259
[Paul Tyler]: okay but the rates were low so you could afford to sit there and pandemic hits a
235
00:11:36,879 –> 00:11:37,879
[Paul Tyler]: lot of
236
00:11:37,420 –> 00:11:38,420
[Jason Fitcher]: what’s that
237
00:11:37,579 –> 00:11:41,579
[Paul Tyler]: suburban areas real estate goes way up okay it also means your equity is higher
238
00:11:37,579 –> 00:11:41,579
[Paul Tyler]: suburban areas real estate goes way up okay it also means your equity is higher
239
00:11:43,339 –> 00:11:45,019
[Paul Tyler]: maybe you can sell your house where you go
240
00:11:46,299 –> 00:11:50,619
[Paul Tyler]: now i don’t know like we just we we were talking before the show this last month
241
00:11:50,719 –> 00:11:51,719
[Paul Tyler]: wow interest
242
00:11:51,297 –> 00:11:52,297
[Ramsey Smith]: why
243
00:11:51,739 –> 00:11:55,259
[Paul Tyler]: rates are starting to spike again stock market
244
00:11:55,017 –> 00:11:56,017
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah that’s
245
00:11:55,579 –> 00:11:58,699
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t i wouldn’t want wanna to have sold my house and but i put it in the market
246
00:11:58,939 –> 00:12:01,259
[Paul Tyler]: last month not good how do you
247
00:11:59,517 –> 00:12:02,317
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah the last um r is
248
00:12:02,699 –> 00:12:05,579
[Paul Tyler]: how do you dynamically approach something like this
249
00:12:05,117 –> 00:12:06,317
[Ramsey Smith]: per person what
250
00:12:05,920 –> 00:12:09,200
[Jason Fitcher]: i well you you’ve bought out some great points paul and i think maybe the word
251
00:12:09,360 –> 00:12:13,120
[Jason Fitcher]: dynamic is something to focus on any dynamic and risk or two words we need to have
252
00:12:13,520 –> 00:12:18,800
[Jason Fitcher]: as our framing here because there are many people who again go into retirement
253
00:12:19,040 –> 00:12:22,800
[Jason Fitcher]: without paying off their house and think i’ve got income coming in from a variety
254
00:12:22,800 –> 00:12:25,120
[Jason Fitcher]: of sources including the market if the market
255
00:12:24,879 –> 00:12:25,879
[Paul Tyler]: what
256
00:12:25,360 –> 00:12:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: this is where i think we talked about this last time too whether you should have
257
00:12:28,320 –> 00:12:31,520
[Jason Fitcher]: the three percentage rule the four percent drawdown rule that
258
00:12:31,577 –> 00:12:32,577
[Ramsey Smith]: that work
259
00:12:31,680 –> 00:12:36,640
[Jason Fitcher]: rule can work if you have an ever increasing market right the market keeps going
260
00:12:36,720 –> 00:12:39,920
[Jason Fitcher]: up ten percent a year and you’re taking out three or four it probably works for
261
00:12:40,080 –> 00:12:44,560
[Jason Fitcher]: you that only works if you don’t have a recession in the first two or three or
262
00:12:44,640 –> 00:12:47,600
[Jason Fitcher]: five years’ retirement and you don’t have it till the end it’s the sequence of
263
00:12:47,680 –> 00:12:51,520
[Jason Fitcher]: return risk we’re talking about the same goes for housing if people haven’t paid
264
00:12:51,520 –> 00:12:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: off their housing or they’ve done something even worse like you know you’ve heard
265
00:12:54,240 –> 00:12:57,120
[Jason Fitcher]: the old jo of people taking out a whole meck line of credit when they retired to
266
00:12:56,900 –> 00:12:57,900
[Jason Fitcher]: buy a boat so
267
00:12:57,457 –> 00:12:58,457
[Ramsey Smith]: oh
268
00:12:57,500 –> 00:12:58,500
[Jason Fitcher]: now they
269
00:12:57,839 –> 00:12:58,839
[Paul Tyler]: i did
270
00:12:58,160 –> 00:12:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: not pit off their boat they’re pay off their house
271
00:12:59,519 –> 00:13:00,519
[Paul Tyler]: i
272
00:12:59,920 –> 00:13:03,360
[Jason Fitcher]: they have a boat they’ve got to pay for and and the old joke is you know how do
273
00:13:03,360 –> 00:13:06,720
[Jason Fitcher]: you become a millionaire first you get a billion dollars and you buy a boat and
274
00:13:06,660 –> 00:13:07,660
[Jason Fitcher]: thats how
275
00:13:06,977 –> 00:13:07,977
[Ramsey Smith]: right
276
00:13:07,260 –> 00:13:08,260
[Jason Fitcher]: you become a millionaire
277
00:13:10,080 –> 00:13:14,240
[Jason Fitcher]: people take on this extra level of debt and debt i think we should really call
278
00:13:14,480 –> 00:13:18,480
[Jason Fitcher]: debt risk right and it really is risk can you are you at risk of not being paid
279
00:13:18,800 –> 00:13:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: have an asset collected a secure asset someone can come after maybe you’re okay
280
00:13:22,640 –> 00:13:25,600
[Jason Fitcher]: with someone possessing your car your boat but your house
281
00:13:26,720 –> 00:13:28,640
[Jason Fitcher]: you live in it you need housing and in retirement
282
00:13:28,737 –> 00:13:29,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yes
283
00:13:29,200 –> 00:13:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: and i think the dynamic nature is what i would like for us to start having is
284
00:13:33,440 –> 00:13:37,920
[Jason Fitcher]: these kitchen table conversations you never know she made the right decision until
285
00:13:38,160 –> 00:13:41,440
[Jason Fitcher]: that decision has passed have hindsight right hindsight is twenty twenty is the
286
00:13:41,440 –> 00:13:44,080
[Jason Fitcher]: market going to go up is the market going to go down boy i
287
00:13:43,679 –> 00:13:44,679
[Paul Tyler]: what
288
00:13:44,080 –> 00:13:47,200
[Jason Fitcher]: wish i would have done this you know if i had tried bought apple stock when it was
289
00:13:47,280 –> 00:13:51,040
[Jason Fitcher]: going to eight dollars back when i you know twenty thirty years ago i’d be a
290
00:13:51,040 –> 00:13:54,080
[Jason Fitcher]: millionaire a billionaire but you know i didn’t so i missed out
291
00:13:55,200 –> 00:13:58,400
[Jason Fitcher]: what do we do when it comes to these discussions about dynamic nature of housing
292
00:13:58,480 –> 00:14:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: and risk and i think what i think people should think about is the house is an
293
00:14:02,000 –> 00:14:06,560
[Jason Fitcher]: asset if it’s paid off and you go into retirement you have minimized risk and you
294
00:14:06,640 –> 00:14:09,760
[Jason Fitcher]: have expanded your flexibility so for many people
295
00:14:10,420 –> 00:14:11,420
[Jason Fitcher]: if
296
00:14:10,657 –> 00:14:11,657
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
297
00:14:11,040 –> 00:14:13,600
[Jason Fitcher]: your house is paid off you could use that home equity
298
00:14:13,760 –> 00:14:18,080
[Jason Fitcher]: down the road for long term care long term care insurance if you can find it now
299
00:14:13,837 –> 00:14:15,917
[Ramsey Smith]: we just don’t need that we here
300
00:14:18,160 –> 00:14:20,240
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s really really expensive
301
00:14:21,520 –> 00:14:26,720
[Jason Fitcher]: think about long term care as your housing in your really really senior years if
302
00:14:26,800 –> 00:14:29,920
[Jason Fitcher]: your house is paid off and you have to go into long term care you could sell your
303
00:14:29,920 –> 00:14:33,200
[Jason Fitcher]: house or you saw home equity or reverse mortgage to pay your long term care and
304
00:14:33,280 –> 00:14:37,120
[Jason Fitcher]: not leave that bill on your on your kids or your grandkids or you know hopefully
305
00:14:37,120 –> 00:14:41,360
[Jason Fitcher]: you’re not going to go on medicaid if you’re indigent to go into long term care
306
00:14:42,400 –> 00:14:46,000
[Jason Fitcher]: thinking about planning for this and the dynamic nature of what retirement means
307
00:14:46,000 –> 00:14:49,600
[Jason Fitcher]: and what the markets can do helps people think about how do you better use their
308
00:14:49,680 –> 00:14:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: assets and i mean my fear is too often we’ve trained people to think about acid
309
00:14:54,800 –> 00:14:59,280
[Jason Fitcher]: accumulation in their years of working we haven’t talked about the either
310
00:14:59,600 –> 00:15:03,360
[Jason Fitcher]: distribution or accumulation phase and retirement and what that means for risk
311
00:15:03,520 –> 00:15:07,200
[Jason Fitcher]: mitigation and how to make sure people don’t outlive their savings they’re not
312
00:15:07,280 –> 00:15:10,960
[Jason Fitcher]: afraid to spend what they have and can actually have a financially comfortable
313
00:15:11,040 –> 00:15:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: secure retirement that they’re enjoying that they enjoy their golden years you
314
00:15:14,560 –> 00:15:18,400
[Jason Fitcher]: know you want to be as worry free as possible if you’ve got that mortgage sitting
315
00:15:18,400 –> 00:15:21,920
[Jason Fitcher]: of your head you know in turbulent times like right now you know with how long
316
00:15:22,080 –> 00:15:25,360
[Jason Fitcher]: does this russian ukraine g were going to last is it gonna end tomorrow is it
317
00:15:25,440 –> 00:15:29,120
[Jason Fitcher]: going to end in three years whatever end what does that mean for oil prices that
318
00:15:29,120 –> 00:15:31,920
[Jason Fitcher]: go to one hundred thirty dollars a barrel one day and then down to below one
319
00:15:31,820 –> 00:15:32,820
[Jason Fitcher]: hundred the next mortgage
320
00:15:33,039 –> 00:15:34,039
[Paul Tyler]: just
321
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:37,120
[Jason Fitcher]: rates again they’re now creeping upwards above four and five percent going towards
322
00:15:37,280 –> 00:15:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: five the federal reserve is going to start raising interest rates to start trying
323
00:15:40,960 –> 00:15:44,720
[Jason Fitcher]: to tamper down on inflation if you need to sell your house and you haven’t put off
324
00:15:44,800 –> 00:15:47,280
[Jason Fitcher]: your mortgage are you going to be under water did you take out a home lot of
325
00:15:47,360 –> 00:15:51,120
[Jason Fitcher]: credit so you are under water now these are all really important factors to
326
00:15:51,280 –> 00:15:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: consider when talking about the dynamic na paul but i think you’re right we need
327
00:15:54,720 –> 00:15:57,840
[Jason Fitcher]: to start talking about what this means for risk and when people say oh don’t
328
00:15:57,777 –> 00:15:58,777
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t
329
00:15:57,920 –> 00:16:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: pay off your house because you can use that money to go to the market
330
00:16:01,520 –> 00:16:04,800
[Jason Fitcher]: well you can lose money in the market you really don’t wanna lose your home
331
00:16:06,257 –> 00:16:07,257
[Ramsey Smith]: so
332
00:16:06,939 –> 00:16:08,139
[Paul Tyler]: i she got couple
333
00:16:06,957 –> 00:16:11,197
[Ramsey Smith]: let me ask you this so there’s this is a this is a decision that’s that’s
334
00:16:10,959 –> 00:16:11,959
[Paul Tyler]: i
335
00:16:11,297 –> 00:16:12,297
[Ramsey Smith]: obviously very difficult
336
00:16:12,239 –> 00:16:13,239
[Paul Tyler]: christmas
337
00:16:12,637 –> 00:16:17,117
[Ramsey Smith]: for for consumers to make often they are going to financial advisors is your
338
00:16:17,079 –> 00:16:18,079
[Paul Tyler]: that’s pretty good
339
00:16:17,357 –> 00:16:20,797
[Ramsey Smith]: experience that the financial advisors or the financial advice community
340
00:16:22,157 –> 00:16:26,557
[Ramsey Smith]: is is is answering this question the way you think they ought to
341
00:16:27,380 –> 00:16:28,380
[Jason Fitcher]: i
342
00:16:29,280 –> 00:16:30,480
[Jason Fitcher]: would put it differently it’s not
343
00:16:30,199 –> 00:16:31,199
[Paul Tyler]: i would
344
00:16:30,260 –> 00:16:31,260
[Jason Fitcher]: whether they’re
345
00:16:31,020 –> 00:16:32,020
[Jason Fitcher]: answering it properly it’s
346
00:16:31,037 –> 00:16:32,237
[Ramsey Smith]: ja mm
347
00:16:31,599 –> 00:16:32,599
[Paul Tyler]: school
348
00:16:32,000 –> 00:16:33,680
[Jason Fitcher]: whether they’re having the right discussion and i think
349
00:16:33,297 –> 00:16:34,297
[Ramsey Smith]: okay
350
00:16:33,760 –> 00:16:37,440
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s what’s missing right so the answer shouldn’t be yes you should sell no you
351
00:16:37,520 –> 00:16:41,040
[Jason Fitcher]: shouldn’t sell you should you know pay off your mortgage no you shouldn’t it
352
00:16:41,200 –> 00:16:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: really should be a discussion with the individuals about what are their risks what
353
00:16:45,440 –> 00:16:48,720
[Jason Fitcher]: other income do they have what other assets do they have what are their goals do
354
00:16:48,420 –> 00:16:49,420
[Jason Fitcher]: they have
355
00:16:48,737 –> 00:16:49,737
[Ramsey Smith]: they have
356
00:16:49,120 –> 00:16:50,720
[Jason Fitcher]: a spouse are they sick right there’s
357
00:16:50,399 –> 00:16:51,399
[Paul Tyler]: water
358
00:16:50,800 –> 00:16:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: a lot of things that go into this conversation it’s the same sort of factors we
359
00:16:54,320 –> 00:16:56,480
[Jason Fitcher]: talked about when it was thinking about when do you claim social security
360
00:16:56,800 –> 00:17:01,680
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement benefits it’s a personal decision one science is not fit all the fear i
361
00:17:01,840 –> 00:17:06,160
[Jason Fitcher]: have is that somebody goes into financial professional and says what do i do and
362
00:17:06,160 –> 00:17:08,000
[Jason Fitcher]: they just give a quick answer without having the
363
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:10,800
[Jason Fitcher]: discussion about what their needs are what their risks are and how they can
364
00:17:08,317 –> 00:17:09,917
[Ramsey Smith]: i would say a kid
365
00:17:10,880 –> 00:17:14,240
[Jason Fitcher]: minimize risk and there’s a difference between saying selling
366
00:17:13,857 –> 00:17:14,857
[Ramsey Smith]: what
367
00:17:14,240 –> 00:17:19,280
[Jason Fitcher]: an asset like selling a stock asset to pay off a house versus taking out a reverse
368
00:17:19,180 –> 00:17:20,180
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage or another
369
00:17:20,160 –> 00:17:24,160
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage i mean the number of people i’ve seen who in the research get into their
370
00:17:20,477 –> 00:17:21,917
[Ramsey Smith]: have the testimony i’m going
371
00:17:24,320 –> 00:17:29,040
[Jason Fitcher]: late fifty seconds and then refinance for another thirty year mortgage is really
372
00:17:29,200 –> 00:17:32,160
[Jason Fitcher]: surprising to me the idea that you could be paying off a mortgage until your
373
00:17:32,240 –> 00:17:36,400
[Jason Fitcher]: seventies or eighties it is just surprise not how i grew up that’s not how that
374
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:40,080
[Jason Fitcher]: framing i was brought up with and some people like maybe we’re comfortable just
375
00:17:39,740 –> 00:17:40,740
[Jason Fitcher]: live in the
376
00:17:40,097 –> 00:17:41,097
[Ramsey Smith]: i
377
00:17:40,480 –> 00:17:43,920
[Jason Fitcher]: house if we died then someone comes and takes the houses where dead who cares
378
00:17:43,919 –> 00:17:44,919
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
379
00:17:44,320 –> 00:17:47,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that may be a smart decision for somebody who understands that and has other
380
00:17:47,840 –> 00:17:50,800
[Jason Fitcher]: assets and make sure that they have income coming in so there’s a market
381
00:17:50,399 –> 00:17:51,399
[Paul Tyler]: s
382
00:17:50,417 –> 00:17:51,417
[Ramsey Smith]: what
383
00:17:50,960 –> 00:17:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: downturn they’re protecting they’re always paying their mortgage for somebody else
384
00:17:54,400 –> 00:17:55,600
[Jason Fitcher]: it might not be the right decision
385
00:17:55,239 –> 00:17:56,239
[Paul Tyler]: hm
386
00:17:55,920 –> 00:17:59,440
[Jason Fitcher]: and they might talk about how they can use their financial assets besides the
387
00:17:59,520 –> 00:18:02,880
[Jason Fitcher]: house to have a protective stream of income that also then pays off the house so
388
00:18:02,880 –> 00:18:06,720
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s off their balance sheet in retirement and becomes a pure asset that they
389
00:18:06,800 –> 00:18:10,000
[Jason Fitcher]: have flexibility with so it’s a discussion that i want to encourage not
390
00:18:10,000 –> 00:18:12,640
[Jason Fitcher]: necessarily focusing on what is the right or wrong answer because that really does
391
00:18:12,800 –> 00:18:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: depend on the individual circumstances
392
00:18:14,337 –> 00:18:15,337
[Ramsey Smith]: so
393
00:18:14,879 –> 00:18:15,879
[Paul Tyler]: you been
394
00:18:15,037 –> 00:18:19,117
[Ramsey Smith]: you’ve mentioned reverse mortgages a few times and we don’t necessarily have a dog
395
00:18:19,197 –> 00:18:20,557
[Ramsey Smith]: in that fight on the show but it’s
396
00:18:21,997 –> 00:18:25,997
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s come up we’ve had um we’ve had don graves on here recently and we’ve had
397
00:18:26,077 –> 00:18:31,357
[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve had way at wed fowl also on a couple of times and both of them speak a lot
398
00:18:31,517 –> 00:18:33,357
[Ramsey Smith]: about the rule of reverse mortgages
399
00:18:35,037 –> 00:18:37,677
[Ramsey Smith]: you how do you feel about them there’s there’s two
400
00:18:37,359 –> 00:18:38,359
[Paul Tyler]: what
401
00:18:37,757 –> 00:18:42,397
[Ramsey Smith]: questions one is the function of them and the other is how they’re priced so i
402
00:18:42,477 –> 00:18:43,517
[Ramsey Smith]: will you know i guess
403
00:18:43,757 –> 00:18:46,397
[Ramsey Smith]: let’s focus on the function first and then we can
404
00:18:43,979 –> 00:18:45,179
[Paul Tyler]: spoke function first
405
00:18:46,180 –> 00:18:47,180
[Jason Fitcher]: okay
406
00:18:46,717 –> 00:18:49,677
[Ramsey Smith]: if you have an opinion on how their price we can talk about that too but as a
407
00:18:49,297 –> 00:18:50,297
[Ramsey Smith]: function
408
00:18:50,877 –> 00:18:52,957
[Ramsey Smith]: as you know for their utility what are your thoughts
409
00:18:53,200 –> 00:18:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so i again
410
00:18:54,079 –> 00:18:55,079
[Paul Tyler]: been white
411
00:18:54,480 –> 00:18:58,720
[Jason Fitcher]: my my hope in this discussion is we can talk about how the house can be used as a
412
00:18:58,800 –> 00:19:00,960
[Jason Fitcher]: financial asset and retirement to mitigate risk
413
00:19:02,000 –> 00:19:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: and then one of i know wait fo talks about the idea of you know the risks you have
414
00:19:05,840 –> 00:19:09,840
[Jason Fitcher]: of sequencing of market timing and how you could use reverse mortgage to basically
415
00:19:10,000 –> 00:19:13,200
[Jason Fitcher]: get some more income later on your retirement years i think that’s an important
416
00:19:13,280 –> 00:19:14,720
[Jason Fitcher]: tool to talk about is the basket
417
00:19:14,657 –> 00:19:15,657
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
418
00:19:14,800 –> 00:19:18,000
[Jason Fitcher]: of options one may have and again this goes back to my earlier thing early
419
00:19:18,240 –> 00:19:19,680
[Jason Fitcher]: discussion i want financial
420
00:19:19,439 –> 00:19:20,439
[Paul Tyler]: what
421
00:19:19,537 –> 00:19:20,537
[Ramsey Smith]: what
422
00:19:19,920 –> 00:19:23,440
[Jason Fitcher]: professionals to be able to talk to their clients about the options
423
00:19:23,177 –> 00:19:24,177
[Ramsey Smith]: oh yeah
424
00:19:23,520 –> 00:19:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that are available what the risks and rewards are the pros and cons and give them
425
00:19:23,520 –> 00:19:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that are available what the risks and rewards are the pros and cons and give them
426
00:19:27,840 –> 00:19:31,280
[Jason Fitcher]: a menu and walk them through it right no pressure just talk about your options
427
00:19:27,840 –> 00:19:31,280
[Jason Fitcher]: a menu and walk them through it right no pressure just talk about your options
428
00:19:31,360 –> 00:19:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s what they are
429
00:19:31,360 –> 00:19:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s what they are
430
00:19:33,579 –> 00:19:34,619
[Paul Tyler]: oh i think
431
00:19:33,700 –> 00:19:34,700
[Jason Fitcher]: i think
432
00:19:34,137 –> 00:19:35,137
[Ramsey Smith]: i think
433
00:19:34,400 –> 00:19:37,440
[Jason Fitcher]: a reverse mortgage would be part of that discussion but so could a home equity
434
00:19:37,520 –> 00:19:40,400
[Jason Fitcher]: line of credit right you could do a whole amount of credit as well if you wanted
435
00:19:40,400 –> 00:19:44,080
[Jason Fitcher]: to there are a lot of structures you can do and think about how to tap into the
436
00:19:44,080 –> 00:19:46,480
[Jason Fitcher]: assets of your home equity to help in retirement
437
00:19:46,399 –> 00:19:47,399
[Paul Tyler]: it
438
00:19:46,880 –> 00:19:48,000
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s new at its conversation
439
00:19:48,699 –> 00:19:53,179
[Paul Tyler]: well is it wrong of me to think of taking a reverse mortgage effectively is doing
440
00:19:53,259 –> 00:19:56,379
[Paul Tyler]: what you’re saying i’m paying off your mortgage right because i think tell me if
441
00:19:56,379 –> 00:20:01,819
[Paul Tyler]: i’m wrong if i do a reverse mortgage and i’ve got a mortgage say hundred thousand
442
00:20:02,059 –> 00:20:06,619
[Paul Tyler]: dollars in the house i think that you got to wrap the whole thing up and get rid
443
00:20:06,619 –> 00:20:08,539
[Paul Tyler]: of the mortgage right is that yeah
444
00:20:07,920 –> 00:20:12,320
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah yeah so and this is again how do you use your house retirement the
445
00:20:12,319 –> 00:20:13,319
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah
446
00:20:12,400 –> 00:20:16,800
[Jason Fitcher]: asset and again as you said po it’s for most people it is their largest asset in
447
00:20:16,880 –> 00:20:19,680
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement and you know and if someone it again depends
448
00:20:19,617 –> 00:20:20,617
[Ramsey Smith]: definitely
449
00:20:19,920 –> 00:20:23,120
[Jason Fitcher]: on are youre to leave a request you do you have a spouse what’s the role you know
450
00:20:23,440 –> 00:20:27,120
[Jason Fitcher]: if you are a single let’s say you’re a single person you have no kids you have no
451
00:20:27,200 –> 00:20:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: grandkids you’re not trying to leave a request to somebody why do you want to die
452
00:20:30,980 –> 00:20:31,980
[Jason Fitcher]: and leave thistles att
453
00:20:31,920 –> 00:20:39,120
[Jason Fitcher]: if you got a spouse to worry about if you’re worried about want to leave money to
454
00:20:33,199 –> 00:20:34,199
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
455
00:20:39,280 –> 00:20:42,960
[Jason Fitcher]: your kids or your family it’s a different conversation so again it’s it’s it
456
00:20:43,200 –> 00:20:44,320
[Jason Fitcher]: really is amazing how
457
00:20:46,320 –> 00:20:51,200
[Jason Fitcher]: times one of the reasons i love this show is we can talk about money yeah and but
458
00:20:51,440 –> 00:20:54,960
[Jason Fitcher]: but i mean that sincerely do you know how uncomfortable is talking money with
459
00:20:54,860 –> 00:20:55,860
[Jason Fitcher]: people like
460
00:20:55,279 –> 00:20:56,279
[Paul Tyler]: right
461
00:20:55,500 –> 00:20:56,500
[Jason Fitcher]: real people
462
00:20:56,337 –> 00:20:57,337
[Ramsey Smith]: sure
463
00:20:56,640 –> 00:20:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: they’re they’re they just yeah you know this they get they they get nervous
464
00:21:00,580 –> 00:21:01,580
[Jason Fitcher]: going
465
00:21:00,977 –> 00:21:01,977
[Ramsey Smith]: what
466
00:21:01,360 –> 00:21:05,360
[Jason Fitcher]: back to this idea we can have kitchen table conversations with your family members
467
00:21:05,760 –> 00:21:08,720
[Jason Fitcher]: and this is what becomes important even for like people who aren’t retiring yet
468
00:21:08,720 –> 00:21:11,920
[Jason Fitcher]: but whose parents might be retiring you just sit down with that of discussion
469
00:21:12,160 –> 00:21:16,480
[Jason Fitcher]: about what are their finances what are their worries do they actually no one likes
470
00:21:16,560 –> 00:21:19,840
[Jason Fitcher]: to talk about death but do you have a will do you have you know do you have a
471
00:21:19,920 –> 00:21:23,920
[Jason Fitcher]: power of attorney have you structured all this i’m starting to have friends whose
472
00:21:24,000 –> 00:21:25,840
[Jason Fitcher]: parents are passing away and they’re finding
473
00:21:25,697 –> 00:21:26,697
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
474
00:21:25,920 –> 00:21:30,560
[Jason Fitcher]: that their parents didn’t have the proper legal documents in order to help
475
00:21:30,880 –> 00:21:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: straighten out their affairs because they were nervous about talking about it or
476
00:21:33,840 –> 00:21:36,560
[Jason Fitcher]: their kids now find out that they didn’t have much money as they thought and
477
00:21:36,640 –> 00:21:39,920
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s debt they’ve got to figure out how to pay off we need to go back to being
478
00:21:40,000 –> 00:21:41,840
[Jason Fitcher]: able to have these kitchen table financial conversations
479
00:21:43,920 –> 00:21:48,160
[Jason Fitcher]: in a responsible way without feeling guilty about it or nervous so we can talk
480
00:21:48,320 –> 00:21:51,760
[Jason Fitcher]: about what actually are our risks our trade offs the pros and cons of various
481
00:21:52,000 –> 00:21:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: things and that’s where a financial planner comes in that’s where family and
482
00:21:54,720 –> 00:21:58,880
[Jason Fitcher]: friends can come in and we can have this again discussion of risk and how to
483
00:21:58,960 –> 00:22:01,120
[Jason Fitcher]: minimize risk especially in retirement
484
00:22:02,059 –> 00:22:06,379
[Paul Tyler]: so so if i think about the problem we’re really trying to help solve right you can
485
00:22:06,539 –> 00:22:11,259
[Paul Tyler]: step back a couple layers and say well it’s really how do you reduce your housing
486
00:22:11,339 –> 00:22:17,179
[Paul Tyler]: expenses in retirement right so big component obviously in a debt’s a hugely
487
00:22:17,339 –> 00:22:20,219
[Paul Tyler]: expensive proposition right there are other expenses
488
00:22:25,899 –> 00:22:27,499
[Paul Tyler]: okay i agree i
489
00:22:27,057 –> 00:22:28,057
[Ramsey Smith]: agree
490
00:22:27,579 –> 00:22:29,099
[Paul Tyler]: ha i wanna get my
491
00:22:30,379 –> 00:22:35,339
[Paul Tyler]: get rid of my mortgage it feels like a kind of high a rare solution where somebody
492
00:22:35,579 –> 00:22:38,539
[Paul Tyler]: could just go in and say hey you know rams i’m going to pull money out of my money
493
00:22:38,699 –> 00:22:42,939
[Paul Tyler]: market and pay off my mortgage right that feels like jason what are the most
494
00:22:42,660 –> 00:22:43,660
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
495
00:22:43,099 –> 00:22:44,619
[Paul Tyler]: likely scenarios here where
496
00:22:45,420 –> 00:22:46,420
[Jason Fitcher]: so he here’s
497
00:22:45,659 –> 00:22:48,219
[Paul Tyler]: i actually do get rid of my eliminate my mortgage
498
00:22:48,480 –> 00:22:51,840
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s how the people should think about one is there’s when you pay off your
499
00:22:51,920 –> 00:22:54,880
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage there’s a couple ways to do it right you just brought the idea of
500
00:22:55,040 –> 00:22:58,080
[Jason Fitcher]: basically taking money from another pot i have a you know buy a
501
00:22:57,839 –> 00:22:58,839
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
502
00:22:58,160 –> 00:23:02,720
[Jason Fitcher]: cash i have a money market i have stocks i have bonds i have a four one can retire
503
00:23:02,720 –> 00:23:07,120
[Jason Fitcher]: and going to sell x to pay off the mortgage y that’s one way and that becomes a
504
00:23:07,200 –> 00:23:10,400
[Jason Fitcher]: decision on one risk management it also becomes in how do you want to allocate
505
00:23:10,480 –> 00:23:15,200
[Jason Fitcher]: your assets think about your house it’s a portfolio right the first rule portfolio
506
00:23:15,280 –> 00:23:17,360
[Jason Fitcher]: diversification is it has to be diversified
507
00:23:18,640 –> 00:23:22,160
[Jason Fitcher]: a house is part of your diversified portfolio so you don’t want to sell all of
508
00:23:22,160 –> 00:23:25,760
[Jason Fitcher]: your stock assets to pay off a house but how do you balance it my
509
00:23:25,439 –> 00:23:26,439
[Paul Tyler]: what
510
00:23:25,920 –> 00:23:28,960
[Jason Fitcher]: thing has always been i’ve always been concerned that people take out these home
511
00:23:29,200 –> 00:23:34,080
[Jason Fitcher]: economic credits or keep refinancing to do cash refinancing to buy something else
512
00:23:34,640 –> 00:23:39,360
[Jason Fitcher]: so they start looking at their houses an atm and a cash machine as opposed to
513
00:23:39,840 –> 00:23:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement asset housing consumption et cetera so my first advice for people when
514
00:23:45,440 –> 00:23:48,240
[Jason Fitcher]: they get a mortgage is just unless rates drop
515
00:23:47,839 –> 00:23:48,839
[Paul Tyler]: water
516
00:23:48,640 –> 00:23:52,240
[Jason Fitcher]: stick with it and if race dropped you when to refinance don’t keep refinancing the
517
00:23:52,320 –> 00:23:55,680
[Jason Fitcher]: thirty years and pushing it out if you had a thirty year can you get a twenty year
518
00:23:55,760 –> 00:23:59,600
[Jason Fitcher]: next time perhaps a fifteen maybe you can do a ten year i
519
00:23:59,279 –> 00:24:00,279
[Paul Tyler]: i
520
00:23:59,680 –> 00:24:04,400
[Jason Fitcher]: ref you know my first house i couldn’t afford to pay cash for my first house i got
521
00:24:04,480 –> 00:24:06,320
[Jason Fitcher]: a thirty year mortgage rates started
522
00:24:05,919 –> 00:24:06,919
[Paul Tyler]: you
523
00:24:06,400 –> 00:24:10,000
[Jason Fitcher]: dropping i refinanced and at some point i was able to refinance to a fifteen year
524
00:24:10,160 –> 00:24:13,440
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage and we were talking before the show and i’m happy to put it on in public
525
00:24:13,600 –> 00:24:17,680
[Jason Fitcher]: i am fifty years old and i’m two years away from paying off my house because i’ve
526
00:24:17,680 –> 00:24:21,520
[Jason Fitcher]: been paying it monthly and got a fifteen year mortgage i am going pay off my house
527
00:24:21,760 –> 00:24:24,640
[Jason Fitcher]: i am not i mean i get letters from you know banks
528
00:24:24,457 –> 00:24:25,457
[Ramsey Smith]: i think
529
00:24:24,720 –> 00:24:28,080
[Jason Fitcher]: saying hey you could be finance the equity you have in your house like yes that is
530
00:24:28,080 –> 00:24:31,120
[Jason Fitcher]: going to be my long term care insurance that is to me what my wife is gonna have
531
00:24:31,120 –> 00:24:35,600
[Jason Fitcher]: when i pass away that is going to be a worry free asset yeah i’ve gotta pay taxes
532
00:24:35,680 –> 00:24:39,440
[Jason Fitcher]: on it yes i’ll have to have maintenance i don’t have to pay rent i have to pay a
533
00:24:39,440 –> 00:24:44,160
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage and that money that was allocated for housing can now go into other
534
00:24:44,320 –> 00:24:47,920
[Jason Fitcher]: things whether that’s vacation travel whether i want to put that back in the
535
00:24:47,920 –> 00:24:50,640
[Jason Fitcher]: market and reallocate money that what is going to housing and i’ll put
536
00:24:50,319 –> 00:24:51,319
[Paul Tyler]: see
537
00:24:50,720 –> 00:24:55,520
[Jason Fitcher]: it in investments i now have that flexibility but having the house paid off means
538
00:24:55,520 –> 00:25:00,000
[Jason Fitcher]: i can start going into retirement not worrying about housing which again for most
539
00:25:00,080 –> 00:25:03,920
[Jason Fitcher]: people it’s the biggest expense so that’s when we start thinking about housing you
540
00:25:03,920 –> 00:25:08,080
[Jason Fitcher]: know paul it’s not do i sell off all my assets to pay down the house when i retire
541
00:25:07,860 –> 00:25:08,860
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s what
542
00:25:08,239 –> 00:25:09,239
[Paul Tyler]: what
543
00:25:08,640 –> 00:25:13,280
[Jason Fitcher]: have i got is my portfolio and am i overleveraged in one versus the other and
544
00:25:13,440 –> 00:25:17,200
[Jason Fitcher]: don’t look at your house as a cash machine in the sense of using it to buy a boat
545
00:25:17,600 –> 00:25:21,360
[Jason Fitcher]: think about it as how you would take that house to mitigate risk and retirement
546
00:25:21,360 –> 00:25:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: and presumably down the road maybe turn into a stream of income which could be
547
00:25:24,720 –> 00:25:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: either again i’m not saying i’m buying into reverse mortgages because there’s a
548
00:25:27,760 –> 00:25:31,120
[Jason Fitcher]: lot of ways you could do home equity there’s a lot of things you can do but that
549
00:25:31,200 –> 00:25:34,640
[Jason Fitcher]: house you might decide to sell it maybe you get to the point where the house is
550
00:25:34,720 –> 00:25:39,280
[Jason Fitcher]: too big you bought this big house and the kids are gone the dogs are gone it’s
551
00:25:39,280 –> 00:25:42,400
[Jason Fitcher]: just you or maybe you’re in a spouse in this big house and you want to downsize
552
00:25:43,600 –> 00:25:46,560
[Jason Fitcher]: what do you sell how do you downsize what do you use the additional proceeds for
553
00:25:46,560 –> 00:25:48,960
[Jason Fitcher]: how do you use that to do you buy more protected income
554
00:25:48,737 –> 00:25:49,737
[Ramsey Smith]: she
555
00:25:49,040 –> 00:25:50,560
[Jason Fitcher]: do you reallocate it into the market
556
00:25:51,680 –> 00:25:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s a lot of things you can do and you have a lot more flexibility if the
557
00:25:54,720 –> 00:25:56,320
[Jason Fitcher]: house is paid off or close to it
558
00:25:56,857 –> 00:25:57,857
[Ramsey Smith]: i think
559
00:25:56,919 –> 00:25:57,919
[Paul Tyler]: i think
560
00:25:58,557 –> 00:25:59,677
[Ramsey Smith]: part of the issue here is
561
00:26:00,797 –> 00:26:05,437
[Ramsey Smith]: is is when financial advisor or somebody else is having a conversation
562
00:26:06,557 –> 00:26:08,957
[Ramsey Smith]: with a consumer that’s kind of in that right in
563
00:26:08,500 –> 00:26:09,500
[Jason Fitcher]: i
564
00:26:09,037 –> 00:26:13,037
[Ramsey Smith]: this age range we’re talking about is to sort of express upfront that
565
00:26:14,157 –> 00:26:16,397
[Ramsey Smith]: it is a it is a normal goal
566
00:26:16,500 –> 00:26:17,500
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
567
00:26:17,197 –> 00:26:21,517
[Ramsey Smith]: to go under retirement with a debt free with debt free housing right like that
568
00:26:21,757 –> 00:26:26,557
[Ramsey Smith]: like that is a that is an aspirational first set it up as an aspirational goal so
569
00:26:26,717 –> 00:26:28,317
[Ramsey Smith]: people people see it as a
570
00:26:29,577 –> 00:26:30,577
[Ramsey Smith]: as a target
571
00:26:31,757 –> 00:26:33,117
[Ramsey Smith]: the second part of that i think
572
00:26:33,117 –> 00:26:35,357
[Ramsey Smith]: that that you said that’s very important
573
00:26:33,120 –> 00:26:35,120
[Jason Fitcher]: right um what
574
00:26:36,657 –> 00:26:37,657
[Ramsey Smith]: is
575
00:26:37,200 –> 00:26:39,040
[Jason Fitcher]: it down and the one is
576
00:26:37,277 –> 00:26:41,677
[Ramsey Smith]: ultimately highlighting that it’s an asset and then there are things that you can
577
00:26:41,677 –> 00:26:45,357
[Ramsey Smith]: do to create some liquidity around that asset so it’s the line of credit or the
578
00:26:45,357 –> 00:26:46,637
[Ramsey Smith]: verse mortgage driver you
579
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Jason Fitcher]: uhuh
580
00:26:46,717 –> 00:26:49,117
[Ramsey Smith]: happen to do it but the key thing is that
581
00:26:50,397 –> 00:26:54,077
[Ramsey Smith]: that the liquidity and resources that you draw from your house
582
00:26:55,137 –> 00:26:56,137
[Ramsey Smith]: should be spent
583
00:26:55,700 –> 00:26:56,700
[Jason Fitcher]: watch
584
00:26:56,537 –> 00:26:57,537
[Ramsey Smith]: on things
585
00:26:57,180 –> 00:26:58,180
[Jason Fitcher]: know i said i
586
00:26:57,517 –> 00:27:00,077
[Ramsey Smith]: that are essential as opposed to things that are non essential
587
00:26:59,839 –> 00:27:00,839
[Paul Tyler]: what
588
00:27:00,157 –> 00:27:04,717
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m trying to i’m trying to take everything you said and sort of try to find a way
589
00:27:04,417 –> 00:27:05,417
[Ramsey Smith]: to sort
590
00:27:05,040 –> 00:27:06,640
[Jason Fitcher]: condense it yeah i think that’s great
591
00:27:05,117 –> 00:27:09,517
[Ramsey Smith]: of frame it for people that like you know that you really that that it’s okay to
592
00:27:09,199 –> 00:27:10,199
[Paul Tyler]: ban
593
00:27:09,257 –> 00:27:10,257
[Ramsey Smith]: finance
594
00:27:09,460 –> 00:27:10,460
[Jason Fitcher]: that
595
00:27:10,317 –> 00:27:11,597
[Ramsey Smith]: things but if you’re financing things
596
00:27:11,140 –> 00:27:12,140
[Jason Fitcher]: i
597
00:27:11,597 –> 00:27:15,437
[Ramsey Smith]: that are non essential you’re imparting more risk if you’re financing things that
598
00:27:15,377 –> 00:27:16,377
[Ramsey Smith]: are essential or
599
00:27:16,159 –> 00:27:17,159
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
600
00:27:16,477 –> 00:27:21,357
[Ramsey Smith]: potentially essential then you’re actually reducing risk so you know anyway i’m
601
00:27:21,337 –> 00:27:22,337
[Ramsey Smith]: this has been this
602
00:27:21,700 –> 00:27:22,700
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
603
00:27:22,157 –> 00:27:24,237
[Ramsey Smith]: has been very helpful i’m trying to put a
604
00:27:23,600 –> 00:27:25,280
[Jason Fitcher]: well this is this is also where i
605
00:27:24,977 –> 00:27:25,977
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
606
00:27:25,360 –> 00:27:28,800
[Jason Fitcher]: think for financial professionals to start talking to people about the role of
607
00:27:28,960 –> 00:27:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: income and retirement what does it mean right to basically take the wealth you
608
00:27:32,320 –> 00:27:36,000
[Jason Fitcher]: have and make into a stream of income whether it’s a drawdown strategy or annuity
609
00:27:36,080 –> 00:27:40,880
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s the role of income and we do find with research and also our anecdotal
610
00:27:40,960 –> 00:27:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: experience talking to again real people is that they fear running out of money and
611
00:27:45,440 –> 00:27:48,320
[Jason Fitcher]: outliving their money so they fear they’re going to be living off cat food they’re
612
00:27:48,320 –> 00:27:51,840
[Jason Fitcher]: gonna spend down their money they don’t spend enough and for some people they
613
00:27:52,000 –> 00:27:55,440
[Jason Fitcher]: actually die with a significant amount of assets that they could have spent but
614
00:27:55,520 –> 00:27:59,120
[Jason Fitcher]: they were just afraid to do so and what we see this is research that david
615
00:27:59,120 –> 00:28:02,800
[Jason Fitcher]: blanchet michael have done and we’ve got some work at the alliance that this call
616
00:28:02,960 –> 00:28:06,560
[Jason Fitcher]: this license to spend right if you have enough income coming in that’s protected
617
00:28:06,640 –> 00:28:11,600
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s like your budget constraints if youer the number is that you know you’re
618
00:28:11,600 –> 00:28:16,560
[Jason Fitcher]: getting monthly it’s guaranteed it’s so security plus maybe annuity maybe it’s a
619
00:28:16,620 –> 00:28:17,620
[Jason Fitcher]: pension but you know you’ve
620
00:28:17,217 –> 00:28:18,217
[Ramsey Smith]: you
621
00:28:17,680 –> 00:28:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: got it you spend up that and you allow other money then you can invest it you can
622
00:28:22,560 –> 00:28:26,000
[Jason Fitcher]: take it say i can go and be more risky in assets now because i know i’ve got this
623
00:28:26,080 –> 00:28:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: printed income that pays for my essentials
624
00:28:30,000 –> 00:28:34,400
[Jason Fitcher]: if that essential includes housing whether it’s rent or mortgage that takes up a
625
00:28:34,480 –> 00:28:38,240
[Jason Fitcher]: significant dollar amount of your flexibility to do other things mitigate risks
626
00:28:38,240 –> 00:28:39,280
[Jason Fitcher]: that maybe your car
627
00:28:39,440 –> 00:28:42,720
[Jason Fitcher]: breaks down maybe you need to buy a new car during covid which is very expensive
628
00:28:39,517 –> 00:28:40,877
[Ramsey Smith]: hardly so s
629
00:28:42,960 –> 00:28:46,800
[Jason Fitcher]: if you have a housing repair get health shock all these things come into play so
630
00:28:46,880 –> 00:28:50,320
[Jason Fitcher]: you really need to think about what that means and then try to mitigate risk and
631
00:28:50,400 –> 00:28:53,200
[Jason Fitcher]: people don’t realize that a lot of these things start happening when you retire
632
00:28:53,440 –> 00:28:57,280
[Jason Fitcher]: again we get older things start breaking down not just you know our bodies start
633
00:28:57,440 –> 00:29:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: going but we’re not as young as we used to be and who
634
00:29:00,097 –> 00:29:01,097
[Ramsey Smith]: good
635
00:29:00,640 –> 00:29:03,520
[Jason Fitcher]: knows it’s going to happen with inflation right you know is inflation going to
636
00:29:03,520 –> 00:29:06,320
[Jason Fitcher]: turn around also and go lower again is it going to continue to go up is it
637
00:29:06,400 –> 00:29:10,320
[Jason Fitcher]: transitory is it permanent how do we mitigate the risk and try to protect
638
00:29:10,640 –> 00:29:14,320
[Jason Fitcher]: ourselves and this is where it comes into big thinking more dynamically and the
639
00:29:14,480 –> 00:29:18,480
[Jason Fitcher]: more you can reduce debt to retirement the better off you’re gonna be
640
00:29:18,619 –> 00:29:24,859
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i i totally agree you got to have somebody you who’s knowledgeable helping
641
00:29:24,939 –> 00:29:30,219
[Paul Tyler]: you through this and and and i’ll just had this great chat we i i kind of read you
642
00:29:30,299 –> 00:29:33,419
[Paul Tyler]: a little bit of this just before the show but had an agent coming on an online
643
00:29:33,519 –> 00:29:34,519
[Paul Tyler]: chat and i
644
00:29:34,140 –> 00:29:35,140
[Jason Fitcher]: mm
645
00:29:34,539 –> 00:29:36,939
[Paul Tyler]: think of the risks okay the planning that’s
646
00:29:36,820 –> 00:29:37,820
[Jason Fitcher]: like
647
00:29:37,019 –> 00:29:40,859
[Paul Tyler]: involved in doing something like this and the amount of risk you’ve got to sort of
648
00:29:42,059 –> 00:29:45,499
[Paul Tyler]: dynamically work through can all you know kind of buil
649
00:29:45,260 –> 00:29:46,260
[Jason Fitcher]: but i
650
00:29:45,579 –> 00:29:51,019
[Paul Tyler]: your head so says and i’ll sanitize this a little bit so we’re not promoting
651
00:29:51,179 –> 00:29:55,419
[Paul Tyler]: products here but i have in laws that just sold their home and considering putting
652
00:29:55,499 –> 00:29:57,499
[Paul Tyler]: their profits into either one of your two
653
00:29:57,659 –> 00:30:03,259
[Paul Tyler]: annuities okay all right so they had this house they clearly sold it and they had
654
00:29:57,940 –> 00:29:58,940
[Jason Fitcher]: how you
655
00:30:03,339 –> 00:30:06,539
[Paul Tyler]: to make a bet on g do i keep this thing and
656
00:30:06,260 –> 00:30:07,260
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah
657
00:30:06,699 –> 00:30:09,819
[Paul Tyler]: get the appreciation keep you know is the market going to still going up so they
658
00:30:09,979 –> 00:30:14,059
[Paul Tyler]: bet that the probably the market’s up as high as it’s going go or they don’t need
659
00:30:14,119 –> 00:30:15,119
[Paul Tyler]: you know it’s something they
660
00:30:14,580 –> 00:30:15,580
[Jason Fitcher]: he
661
00:30:14,719 –> 00:30:15,719
[Paul Tyler]: don’t need
662
00:30:16,619 –> 00:30:19,659
[Paul Tyler]: so they’re gonna take their profits so they’re clearly using the principle and
663
00:30:19,659 –> 00:30:23,659
[Paul Tyler]: doing something else with whatever their or whatever their basis was in one of
664
00:30:23,659 –> 00:30:27,899
[Paul Tyler]: these news so they’re diversifying their risk right so they’re keeping some who
665
00:30:27,979 –> 00:30:30,619
[Paul Tyler]: knows what they’re doing the the capital gains the
666
00:30:30,340 –> 00:30:31,340
[Jason Fitcher]: and
667
00:30:30,779 –> 00:30:35,499
[Paul Tyler]: thinking of putting in annuities now here’s what it’s it’s more complicated i had
668
00:30:35,659 –> 00:30:41,259
[Paul Tyler]: to go dig deep on this one ramsey you love this if they submit jointly will a
669
00:30:41,060 –> 00:30:42,060
[Jason Fitcher]: what i
670
00:30:41,339 –> 00:30:42,859
[Paul Tyler]: policy continue as normal should
671
00:30:42,820 –> 00:30:43,820
[Jason Fitcher]: the new york
672
00:30:43,019 –> 00:30:47,419
[Paul Tyler]: one pass or is it better for just one to submit okay so he’s also managing
673
00:30:47,439 –> 00:30:48,439
[Paul Tyler]: longevity risk
674
00:30:48,160 –> 00:30:50,320
[Jason Fitcher]: but if and spouse
675
00:30:50,439 –> 00:30:51,439
[Paul Tyler]: the spouse
676
00:30:50,860 –> 00:30:51,860
[Jason Fitcher]: possible benefit
677
00:30:51,737 –> 00:30:52,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yep
678
00:30:52,619 –> 00:30:55,659
[Paul Tyler]: right how long are they are they going to go and you know the answer is
679
00:30:55,739 –> 00:31:00,139
[Paul Tyler]: complicated because you know if if one’s an owner as it turns out ramsay don’t
680
00:30:59,919 –> 00:31:00,919
[Paul Tyler]: know this before
681
00:31:00,880 –> 00:31:02,560
[Jason Fitcher]: why you go over that i
682
00:31:01,659 –> 00:31:07,259
[Paul Tyler]: you know certain of these features are disappear if the spouse is a is just listed
683
00:31:07,339 –> 00:31:11,979
[Paul Tyler]: as a beneficiary so you got to think through what the contract is who you put on
684
00:31:11,599 –> 00:31:12,599
[Paul Tyler]: as
685
00:31:12,100 –> 00:31:13,100
[Jason Fitcher]: i did like
686
00:31:12,219 –> 00:31:13,819
[Paul Tyler]: the owner and then
687
00:31:14,139 –> 00:31:18,139
[Paul Tyler]: jason the next questions we sort of dig down is like when the money is
688
00:31:14,400 –> 00:31:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: she would be man
689
00:31:17,820 –> 00:31:18,820
[Jason Fitcher]: like you
690
00:31:18,219 –> 00:31:21,979
[Paul Tyler]: withdrawn on a monthly basis how’s it taxed oh
691
00:31:23,020 –> 00:31:24,020
[Jason Fitcher]: i think i
692
00:31:23,659 –> 00:31:27,499
[Paul Tyler]: you know here’s it okay well is it a free withdrawal versus income versus
693
00:31:28,939 –> 00:31:32,859
[Paul Tyler]: what does the tax rate look like five six ten years from now
694
00:31:32,640 –> 00:31:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: ten year again your point life is complicated these are complicated decisions
695
00:31:36,859 –> 00:31:37,979
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so yeah
696
00:31:37,120 –> 00:31:40,640
[Jason Fitcher]: and i think well this is you know again there’s a lot of things we don’t know
697
00:31:40,720 –> 00:31:43,520
[Jason Fitcher]: about their their circumstances right do they have other assets besides the house
698
00:31:43,680 –> 00:31:47,680
[Jason Fitcher]: they just sold how much of the assets do they have are they getting any other
699
00:31:47,840 –> 00:31:52,720
[Jason Fitcher]: income from dividends are they do they have an ira they taking r m ds i
700
00:31:52,720 –> 00:31:56,880
[Jason Fitcher]: don’t know so there there’s is a lot that goes into this but what i started seeing
701
00:31:52,937 –> 00:31:53,937
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t there’s
702
00:31:57,200 –> 00:32:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: you know again and partis and the research you seeing the data and then two is the
703
00:32:00,560 –> 00:32:03,520
[Jason Fitcher]: anecdote when we talk to real people and you start to merge the two together to
704
00:32:03,600 –> 00:32:08,240
[Jason Fitcher]: get a picture of what’s going on in retirement is that more people are entering
705
00:32:08,320 –> 00:32:12,000
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement with housing debt so they haven’t paid off their mortgage and they’ve
706
00:32:12,000 –> 00:32:17,280
[Jason Fitcher]: been so useless framing of well i can borrow for cheap it’s almost co the phrase i
707
00:32:17,280 –> 00:32:19,120
[Jason Fitcher]: always hate is it’s almost free money
708
00:32:20,240 –> 00:32:21,840
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s no such thing as free i
709
00:32:21,920 –> 00:32:25,680
[Jason Fitcher]: mean there’s just there’s this and that and i don’t mean that you know the people
710
00:32:21,997 –> 00:32:23,117
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s the truth yeah
711
00:32:25,840 –> 00:32:28,880
[Jason Fitcher]: say free money because the cost is low but it’s the opportunity cost of that money
712
00:32:29,280 –> 00:32:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: what you could do with it and you have some people saying well take the money out
713
00:32:32,240 –> 00:32:35,520
[Jason Fitcher]: of your house in which you’re paying even if you’re paying now say you’re paying
714
00:32:35,600 –> 00:32:38,560
[Jason Fitcher]: four percent if you’re paying four percent you can put up the market making ten
715
00:32:38,640 –> 00:32:41,440
[Jason Fitcher]: percent a year and your arbitrage the taxes you’re coming out of head you’re not
716
00:32:41,440 –> 00:32:45,280
[Jason Fitcher]: financially smart where the market goes down right so you lose twenty percentage
717
00:32:45,520 –> 00:32:49,440
[Jason Fitcher]: one year in a market you’ve now got this huge debt on your house
718
00:32:49,039 –> 00:32:50,039
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
719
00:32:49,520 –> 00:32:52,160
[Jason Fitcher]: that you got to pay for you might not be able to afford it where it happened to
720
00:32:52,240 –> 00:32:55,200
[Jason Fitcher]: your income stream now you’re out of a house what do you do you gonna go live with
721
00:32:55,100 –> 00:32:56,100
[Jason Fitcher]: your kids you’re gonna
722
00:32:55,657 –> 00:32:56,657
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s
723
00:32:55,900 –> 00:32:56,900
[Jason Fitcher]: you know
724
00:32:57,840 –> 00:33:01,280
[Jason Fitcher]: this is the risk that we’re not talking about it’s too focused on
725
00:33:02,320 –> 00:33:06,240
[Jason Fitcher]: trying to get maximum yield after the point of time when you should be thinking
726
00:33:06,240 –> 00:33:09,200
[Jason Fitcher]: about yield i’m not saying you don’t think of growth mats i think about inflation
727
00:33:09,280 –> 00:33:13,600
[Jason Fitcher]: but that goes back to a diversified portfolio and the house should be part of a
728
00:33:13,680 –> 00:33:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: diversified portfolio and also
729
00:33:15,457 –> 00:33:16,457
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah
730
00:33:15,840 –> 00:33:20,560
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s this is where think people get confused they they see like a stock and a
731
00:33:20,560 –> 00:33:24,320
[Jason Fitcher]: bond and they think that’s an asset so in their head it’s an asset they look at
732
00:33:24,400 –> 00:33:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: the house and for a lot of fines professionals they talk about it as an asset but
733
00:33:28,080 –> 00:33:30,240
[Jason Fitcher]: it takes two functions one is the asset
734
00:33:29,999 –> 00:33:30,999
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
735
00:33:30,320 –> 00:33:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so diversify your portfolio but
736
00:33:32,559 –> 00:33:33,559
[Paul Tyler]: yes
737
00:33:32,960 –> 00:33:38,000
[Jason Fitcher]: you consume housing you’re living in it so to an economist i’m looking at this
738
00:33:38,000 –> 00:33:39,040
[Jason Fitcher]: house that i sit in and
739
00:33:38,897 –> 00:33:39,897
[Ramsey Smith]: did i
740
00:33:39,120 –> 00:33:43,280
[Jason Fitcher]: i’m talking to you guys on i’m consuming living here so it’s part investment part
741
00:33:43,360 –> 00:33:47,360
[Jason Fitcher]: consumption and it’s that consumption that we talk about with our monthly expenses
742
00:33:47,440 –> 00:33:51,040
[Jason Fitcher]: we have in retirement i have to consume utilities i have to consume housing i have
743
00:33:51,200 –> 00:33:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: to consume carss that to consume travel to consume health care if all of a sudden
744
00:33:54,720 –> 00:33:56,960
[Jason Fitcher]: my housing consumption costs are low
745
00:33:58,000 –> 00:34:02,560
[Jason Fitcher]: i have a lot more flexibility to do and afford the other things including shocks
746
00:34:03,837 –> 00:34:05,997
[Ramsey Smith]: one of which is inflation right
747
00:34:05,860 –> 00:34:06,860
[Jason Fitcher]: is it yes
748
00:34:06,057 –> 00:34:07,057
[Ramsey Smith]: so like if you
749
00:34:06,719 –> 00:34:07,719
[Paul Tyler]: yes
750
00:34:07,197 –> 00:34:08,637
[Ramsey Smith]: because if you rent if you rent
751
00:34:08,260 –> 00:34:09,260
[Jason Fitcher]: good point
752
00:34:08,717 –> 00:34:11,277
[Ramsey Smith]: housing inflation’ is going to hit you more directly than if you
753
00:34:11,119 –> 00:34:12,119
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
754
00:34:11,677 –> 00:34:14,637
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you own your home so you’re indexed no
755
00:34:12,880 –> 00:34:17,120
[Jason Fitcher]: yep that that’s yep you’re exactly right and this is also i mean pill asked what
756
00:34:17,200 –> 00:34:19,280
[Jason Fitcher]: should i rent in retirement but yeah the best answer
757
00:34:18,959 –> 00:34:19,959
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
758
00:34:19,680 –> 00:34:24,320
[Jason Fitcher]: we always talked about for any economic question is it depends right so you go
759
00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:27,840
[Jason Fitcher]: back to that couple you were talking about the advisor who emailed you paul what
760
00:34:27,540 –> 00:34:28,540
[Jason Fitcher]: if that
761
00:34:27,777 –> 00:34:28,777
[Ramsey Smith]: like
762
00:34:27,780 –> 00:34:28,780
[Jason Fitcher]: couple
763
00:34:28,159 –> 00:34:29,159
[Paul Tyler]: that
764
00:34:28,640 –> 00:34:30,080
[Jason Fitcher]: said we’re you know we decide
765
00:34:29,879 –> 00:34:30,879
[Paul Tyler]: i want
766
00:34:30,240 –> 00:34:32,720
[Jason Fitcher]: we wanna take the next eighteen months in travel
767
00:34:33,760 –> 00:34:37,600
[Jason Fitcher]: you could use in some way some proceeds have a small base sign of twelve or
768
00:34:37,600 –> 00:34:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: eighteen month lease right lock in payments have a have a home base use those
769
00:34:41,520 –> 00:34:42,640
[Jason Fitcher]: proceeds to pay for rent
770
00:34:42,417 –> 00:34:43,417
[Ramsey Smith]: by
771
00:34:42,800 –> 00:34:46,160
[Jason Fitcher]: go travel and then figure out when you come back whether or not you need to have a
772
00:34:46,160 –> 00:34:50,080
[Jason Fitcher]: small condo or a small house or what you want to do renting is not always bad but
773
00:34:50,240 –> 00:34:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: again you have to understand that there’s consumption and that’s part of your
774
00:34:54,240 –> 00:34:57,760
[Jason Fitcher]: budget fine but you’re now exposing yourself to rental increases and everything
775
00:34:57,540 –> 00:34:58,540
[Jason Fitcher]: else so
776
00:34:59,440 –> 00:35:02,640
[Jason Fitcher]: got i want people to have these conversations because it’s the conversations that
777
00:35:02,720 –> 00:35:06,160
[Jason Fitcher]: allow the individual to say hey i also have this issue i didn’t tell you about
778
00:35:06,240 –> 00:35:09,440
[Jason Fitcher]: maybe add that into the conversation and see what that means for my my risk
779
00:35:09,179 –> 00:35:13,579
[Paul Tyler]: you visited oh yeah well in ramsey you gotta laugh so you know where my head
780
00:35:13,659 –> 00:35:17,419
[Paul Tyler]: goes there is gee if you’re going to travel and you’re senior do you have met sup
781
00:35:13,760 –> 00:35:14,880
[Jason Fitcher]: i don’t know yeah
782
00:35:17,579 –> 00:35:22,539
[Paul Tyler]: you have that advantage and are you going to be a networker out jason it’s just
783
00:35:22,539 –> 00:35:26,699
[Paul Tyler]: it’s like you pull a thread and it’s just it just will not stop coming
784
00:35:30,480 –> 00:35:34,400
[Jason Fitcher]: these are again they’re complicated issues i i don’t want to solve them with a
785
00:35:34,480 –> 00:35:38,800
[Jason Fitcher]: bumper sticker you know rules of thumbs you know are general rules that don’t
786
00:35:38,800 –> 00:35:43,840
[Jason Fitcher]: always apply to everybody but it it is important to have these conversations and i
787
00:35:43,840 –> 00:35:46,800
[Jason Fitcher]: think that’s one of the things that is improving we are seeing it improve
788
00:35:48,800 –> 00:35:53,520
[Jason Fitcher]: but too often i and i love that in fact we have access to credit believe it access
789
00:35:53,760 –> 00:35:58,000
[Jason Fitcher]: to credit makes things work i mean this is just i’m all in favor of access to
790
00:35:58,080 –> 00:36:01,600
[Jason Fitcher]: credit i want to be more nuanced i can have a better discussion of what it means
791
00:36:02,080 –> 00:36:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: because it becomes too easy that people don’t really understand the long term
792
00:36:06,800 –> 00:36:11,520
[Jason Fitcher]: implications of that debt that’s whether credit card debt car debt housing debt
793
00:36:11,600 –> 00:36:15,200
[Jason Fitcher]: you name it um but it’s part of that conversation you have to have before you go
794
00:36:15,360 –> 00:36:17,840
[Jason Fitcher]: into well before you go into retirement to be honest
795
00:36:18,459 –> 00:36:23,659
[Paul Tyler]: so ramsey i don’t know you maybe you you your takeaways did we make this simpler
796
00:36:23,739 –> 00:36:24,779
[Paul Tyler]: or more complicated
797
00:36:26,637 –> 00:36:30,877
[Ramsey Smith]: for me that the the the biggest thing i would hope that everybody takes away from
798
00:36:31,037 –> 00:36:33,277
[Ramsey Smith]: this is one this
799
00:36:32,879 –> 00:36:33,879
[Paul Tyler]: like
800
00:36:32,980 –> 00:36:33,980
[Jason Fitcher]: well
801
00:36:33,177 –> 00:36:34,177
[Ramsey Smith]: idea that
802
00:36:33,177 –> 00:36:34,177
[Ramsey Smith]: idea that
803
00:36:35,137 –> 00:36:36,137
[Ramsey Smith]: that
804
00:36:35,759 –> 00:36:36,759
[Paul Tyler]: you
805
00:36:35,837 –> 00:36:39,517
[Ramsey Smith]: reducing risk and retirement is critical cause you’ve got fewer options
806
00:36:39,679 –> 00:36:40,679
[Paul Tyler]: that
807
00:36:40,397 –> 00:36:41,837
[Ramsey Smith]: to an important component of that
808
00:36:40,400 –> 00:36:42,080
[Jason Fitcher]: you’re like oh oh
809
00:36:43,057 –> 00:36:44,057
[Ramsey Smith]: is
810
00:36:43,500 –> 00:36:44,500
[Jason Fitcher]: that not
811
00:36:44,237 –> 00:36:47,837
[Ramsey Smith]: reducing or eliminating the debt that you have associated with
812
00:36:47,599 –> 00:36:48,599
[Paul Tyler]: my
813
00:36:47,997 –> 00:36:51,037
[Ramsey Smith]: your your housing because it imparts more risk three
814
00:36:50,719 –> 00:36:51,719
[Paul Tyler]: we
815
00:36:51,277 –> 00:36:54,077
[Ramsey Smith]: to the extent that you have a house that is an asset
816
00:36:54,239 –> 00:36:55,239
[Paul Tyler]: yeah
817
00:36:54,817 –> 00:36:55,817
[Ramsey Smith]: and you can
818
00:36:55,780 –> 00:36:56,780
[Jason Fitcher]: what type what
819
00:36:55,917 –> 00:37:00,637
[Ramsey Smith]: use it to create sources of liquidity those are sources of liquidity that should
820
00:37:00,717 –> 00:37:03,677
[Ramsey Smith]: be used one in the case of emergencies and two in the case
821
00:37:04,717 –> 00:37:08,237
[Ramsey Smith]: of financing your sort of essential consumption in retirement
822
00:37:08,940 –> 00:37:09,940
[Jason Fitcher]: alright
823
00:37:09,677 –> 00:37:14,237
[Ramsey Smith]: and only frankly as a last resort for non essentials so
824
00:37:12,400 –> 00:37:14,400
[Jason Fitcher]: okay i know about play s
825
00:37:15,279 –> 00:37:16,279
[Paul Tyler]: that’s
826
00:37:15,517 –> 00:37:19,917
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s sort of the framework that sort of i put together as we were as we were
827
00:37:15,517 –> 00:37:19,917
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s sort of the framework that sort of i put together as we were as we were
828
00:37:20,057 –> 00:37:21,057
[Ramsey Smith]: walking through this
829
00:37:20,057 –> 00:37:21,057
[Ramsey Smith]: walking through this
830
00:37:21,120 –> 00:37:24,960
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s a fantastic for eric ramsay and now we know why you get paid the big bucks
831
00:37:25,040 –> 00:37:27,360
[Jason Fitcher]: cause you hit it right on the not right in the nose
832
00:37:28,539 –> 00:37:33,499
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well jason this was this was great um i guess you you’ve done some really
833
00:37:33,279 –> 00:37:34,279
[Paul Tyler]: good research
834
00:37:35,179 –> 00:37:36,459
[Paul Tyler]: we have a lot of advisors
835
00:37:37,499 –> 00:37:41,179
[Paul Tyler]: what would you suggest first of all where can they find more of what you’re doing
836
00:37:41,579 –> 00:37:45,099
[Paul Tyler]: and is there any place you’d say advisors should look to as they’re
837
00:37:45,057 –> 00:37:46,057
[Ramsey Smith]: uh
838
00:37:45,259 –> 00:37:49,259
[Paul Tyler]: helping their clients think through what they do with their mortgage
839
00:37:50,320 –> 00:37:53,520
[Jason Fitcher]: so my research you can you can google my name and i think you guys post links
840
00:37:53,380 –> 00:37:54,380
[Jason Fitcher]: sometimes to the research
841
00:37:53,919 –> 00:37:54,919
[Paul Tyler]: yes
842
00:37:54,480 –> 00:37:57,600
[Jason Fitcher]: so i i have two papers that were financed by the social security administration
843
00:37:57,600 –> 00:38:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: that were done through the university of wisconsin on on debt and retirement and
844
00:38:01,920 –> 00:38:05,120
[Jason Fitcher]: that includes not just housing debt which is the largest debt but even credit card
845
00:38:05,200 –> 00:38:09,360
[Jason Fitcher]: debt which shows that debt levels are rising and and if someone is going to email
846
00:38:09,440 –> 00:38:10,720
[Jason Fitcher]: you we should say that it’s also
847
00:38:11,137 –> 00:38:12,137
[Ramsey Smith]: yes
848
00:38:11,200 –> 00:38:16,240
[Jason Fitcher]: assets arising but the debt to asset ratio is also rising so as people get more
849
00:38:16,320 –> 00:38:19,360
[Jason Fitcher]: assets they feel like they were more comfortable taking on more debt and we see
850
00:38:19,440 –> 00:38:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: that like for ten percent of the population heading into retirement at some point
851
00:38:22,380 –> 00:38:23,380
[Jason Fitcher]: they have
852
00:38:23,097 –> 00:38:24,097
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah yeah
853
00:38:23,200 –> 00:38:27,200
[Jason Fitcher]: more debt liabilities and assets to cover them so that’s also important so
854
00:38:27,039 –> 00:38:28,039
[Paul Tyler]: that
855
00:38:27,360 –> 00:38:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s online again you can just google my name and like ho home mortgage those
856
00:38:31,360 –> 00:38:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: two papers should come up i would
857
00:38:32,977 –> 00:38:33,977
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe
858
00:38:33,440 –> 00:38:36,240
[Jason Fitcher]: encourage people to pull up a two to pager that the social
859
00:38:36,560 –> 00:38:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: administration does when to start receiving retirement benefits it sort of walks
860
00:38:36,577 –> 00:38:37,577
[Ramsey Smith]: see
861
00:38:40,880 –> 00:38:43,840
[Jason Fitcher]: through this kitchen table conversation about thinking about your spouse other
862
00:38:43,920 –> 00:38:47,520
[Jason Fitcher]: assets that’s even a good framework to have on thinking about what it means to pay
863
00:38:47,600 –> 00:38:50,480
[Jason Fitcher]: off your house like what other assets do you have what other sources of income do
864
00:38:50,560 –> 00:38:52,000
[Jason Fitcher]: you have what do you want to do how’s your health
865
00:38:51,799 –> 00:38:52,799
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see
866
00:38:52,080 –> 00:38:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: those are important things to have a conversation with people
867
00:38:54,319 –> 00:38:55,319
[Paul Tyler]: what
868
00:38:54,800 –> 00:38:58,240
[Jason Fitcher]: on and then obviously the alliance for lifetime income which is that protective
869
00:38:58,320 –> 00:39:00,160
[Jason Fitcher]: income that or we have a lot of uh
870
00:39:01,040 –> 00:39:03,680
[Jason Fitcher]: materials for financial professionals they can use
871
00:39:01,057 –> 00:39:02,057
[Ramsey Smith]: hear
872
00:39:04,720 –> 00:39:09,760
[Jason Fitcher]: and also for consumers there’s a dictionary there’s glass of terms there’s things
873
00:39:09,840 –> 00:39:12,880
[Jason Fitcher]: you should ask your financial professionals so we have terms online as well and
874
00:39:12,960 –> 00:39:16,960
[Jason Fitcher]: the bipartisan pa center were doing lots of research on retirement security google
875
00:39:17,040 –> 00:39:21,200
[Jason Fitcher]: funding our future and it’ll pop up to the b b pc page you can see all the work
876
00:39:21,360 –> 00:39:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: we’re doing there to help people have a financially secure retirement but also a
877
00:39:24,880 –> 00:39:28,800
[Jason Fitcher]: financially secure working years we’re trying to also encourage like secure act
878
00:39:28,960 –> 00:39:32,560
[Jason Fitcher]: two point zero and more employers to have financial wellness programs and to
879
00:39:32,640 –> 00:39:35,360
[Jason Fitcher]: encourage people to have access to and save for retirement as well
880
00:39:35,739 –> 00:39:39,579
[Paul Tyler]: oh that’s great listen we’ll put all those links in the show notes and jason
881
00:39:39,659 –> 00:39:42,379
[Paul Tyler]: thanks thanks for having me on here again this is great yeah
882
00:39:41,357 –> 00:39:43,277
[Ramsey Smith]: thanks a lot thanks for coming back
883
00:39:42,480 –> 00:39:45,280
[Jason Fitcher]: always a pleasure gentlemen good to see you both and have this discussion
884
00:39:43,739 –> 00:39:48,459
[Paul Tyler]: yeah hey ramsey thanks and uh thanks to all our listeners and be sure to tune
885
00:39:48,619 –> 00:39:52,299
[Paul Tyler]: again next week for another episode of that annuity show thanks
The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.
Leave a Reply