2022

RIAs Sell Verbs. Agents and Brokers Sell Nouns

No comments

I love the insurance industry. It’s not the puppy love I felt when I leapt headfirst into leading my first insurance business. It’s not the coming-of-age identity struggle I faced as my career progressed and I had to decide whether to focus my energy on operations or strategy. Now, I’m talking mature love. When you love something the way I love the insurance industry, you don’t just care about it in your spare time. You want to see it flourish into the best version of itself. Over and over again.

The insurance industry is in an awkward position. It is plagued by product commoditization, prolonged low-interest rates, regulatory mandates ill-matched with insurance distribution, nontraditional entrants effecting tax and capital arbitrage, and generalized disruption. In advising my insurance company clients about how to innovate our way out of these circumstances, I often empathize with Bill Murray’s character in Groundhog Day. Until we begin to acknowledge, and maybe even embrace, the changes, we will be stuck in an endless loop where insurance is perceived as a commodity and where distribution is expensive (which makes products expensive!). Insurance in this world remains isolated from an increasingly integrated, fintech-driven, fee-conscious, financial advisory community.

State insurance regulation governs the conduct of agents and insurance brokers. It needs to be adapted to govern RIAs as well. Insurance advisement is a premise different from insurance sales, just as there is a big difference between the consumer experience of advice versus sales of securities. While some insurance professionals already consult on or about contracts for consumers, and legally charge a fee for doing so, this model is not mainstream for insurance distribution. Insurance regulation currently occurs at the point of sale and does not contemplate ongoing advice. It should be adapted to do so. Such an adaptation would facilitate a transformation of both insurance, which means liability management, and wealth management as disciplines.

There is no direct corollary to the ’40 Act for insurance. There is no national authority that can define the meaning of the term “insurance advis(o)er.” There is no independent national source upon which financial professionals can rely for accurate annuity conduct, oversight and advice.

We are all receiving a high volume of rapidly changing regulatory guidance. It is not always clear how it applies to the nascent world of “insurance advice.” I empathize with the advisors who tell me that there is not one place they feel they can turn to for definitive guidance about what their responsibilities are for various forms of annuity transactions. To try and assist advisors who feel this way, I have compiled the table below. This is not legal advice, but I hope it gives a starting point for a broader discussion in the industry.

Michelle Richter’s Non-Lawyer Best Guess on Applicability of Various Laws to Different Types of Annuity Transactions. Feedback welcome, especially from financial regulatory lawyers!

Read the rest of the article, here: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/insurance/rias-sell-verbs-agents-and-brokers-sell-nouns 

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersRIAs Sell Verbs. Agents and Brokers Sell Nouns
read more

The Institute of Financial Wellness Introduces Advisory Board of Nationally Noted Thought Leaders

No comments

America’s first-of-its-kind multi-media financial education content network observes National Financial Literacy Month by expanding its platform of unbiased financial education, resources and services

MIAMIApril 20, 2022 /PRNewswire/ — In conjunction with National Financial Literacy Month in April, the Institute of Financial Wellness today announced the establishment of an advisory board comprised of nationally noted thought-leaders in the financial services, business, insurance, entertainment, health and wellness industries. These experts support IFW’s educational mission by providing valuable perspectives and advice for Americans at all stages of life.

Launched in the fall of 2021, IFW is America’s multi-media platform providing free access to all the financial information and resources people need to develop customized strategies for every stage of life. IFW’s financial services thought-leaders, digital media veterans, and financial professionals developed the first-of-a-kind platform as well as a Financial Professional Network to enable customers to implement their customized plans.

The advisory board members include:

Fabrice Braunrot, IFW Financial Services / Health & Wellness Expert
Fabrice Braunrot retired from JPMorgan Chase as a Vice-Chairman of the JPMorgan Private Bank in 2018, after a 34-year career working in LondonNew York and Chicago. Currently, he is a Director of Spiral Sun Ventures, as well as an advisor to Tensility Ventures and Genivity/HALO. Braunrot has a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in modern history from the University of Oxford (Oriel College).

Renee Haugerud, IFW Commodities Expert / Female & Young Women in Finance Advocate
Renée Haugerud is the Founder, Chief Investment Officer, and Managing Principal of Galtere Inc., founded in 1997. She is an investment advisor focused on top-down real asset macro themes, allocating across global asset classes. Throughout her 40-plus year investment career, Haugerud acquired expertise across all asset classes, through posts in the U.S., Canada, the U.K., SwitzerlandAustralia, and Hong Kong. She began her tenure in financial markets by trading cash commodity markets in The United States and Canada. Active in the community of women and business leaders, she advocates for numerous global education initiatives.

Tom Hegna, IFW Retirement Income Expert
Tom Hegna, CLU, ChFC, CASL, is an acclaimed author, speaker, and economist widely known as “THE” retirement income expert. As a former Senior Executive Officer at New York Life, retired Lieutenant Colonel, and economist, he has delivered over 5,000 seminars, helping baby boomers and seniors retire the “optimal” way. Hegna specializes in creating simple and powerful retirement solutions based on math and science – not opinions.

David Adefeso, IFW College Planning & Investment Strategy
David Adefeso is the Chief Executive Officer of the Pacific Group, a full-service investment advisory firm for new investors and experienced investors alike, and Sootchy, a mobile technology platform used to combat United States student debt. Upon graduating from Harvard Business School with a master’s degree in business administration, he worked as a Certified Public Accountant and a Wall Street Investment Banker with Wasserstein Perella & Co. and Salomon Smith Barney. After this, he founded Sootchy with the idea that all children could enjoy higher education without the crippling debt that comes with student loans.

Malik Yoba, IFW Inner City & Urban Community Development / Arts & Entertainment Advocate
The three-time NAACP Image Award Winner is probably best known for his roles as an actor in the 1993 Disney classic, Cool Runnings, and the hit Fox television series Empire and New York Undercover. As an actor, writer, director, producer, musician, activist, educator, inspirational speaker, entrepreneur, and author, Yoba tackles his quest to live a purpose-filled life and not only entertain but also educate young and old alike in communities across the world on the value of accountability, integrity, and leadership.

Joe Jordan, IFW Behavioral Finance Expert
Joe Jordan, inspirational speaker, behavioral finance expert and award-winning author, is a founder of the Insured Retirement Institute and has been featured on the cover of Life Insurance Selling magazine. He previously ran insurance sales at Paine Webber and more recently was a senior vice president at MetLife. Jordan. For three consecutive years, he has been honored by Irish America magazine as one of the “Top 50 Irish Americans on Wall Street.”

Laurie Sallarulo, IFW Student Leader of Financial Education & Entrepreneurship
CEO Junior Achievement South Florida
Elevating through the corporate ranks to CFO, Laurie developed the skills that take organizations from struggling to good to great. She transitioned to the non-profit sector as a CEO, applying her business and relationship-building experience to satisfy her passion for helping young people and rising, middle and female managers prepare to lead. She currently serves as Governor Appointed Chair of the Early Learning Coalition of Broward and is a member of the Florida Early Learning Advisory Council.

Dawn Nic, Money and Psychology Expert
Dawn Nic, CCH, CLC, an author and certified life and health coach, studied medical sciences at Harvard University and received an MDC in neuroscience and pathology. She is the founder of Whole Self Approach and the Whole Self Approach method, and has authored several self-help workbooks. She has also created TFEE (Teens for Empowering Each Other), a program to empower teens to be kind and compassionate instead of bulling one another.

Kristin Chenoweth, IFW Arts Advocate
Emmy and Tony Award-winning actress and singer Kristin Chenoweth’s career spans film, television, voiceover, and stage. In 2015, Chenoweth received a coveted star on The Hollywood Walk of Fame. Chenoweth is a graduate of Oklahoma City University with a master’s degree in opera performance.

“On National Financial Literacy Month, we are thrilled to introduce our advisory board of esteemed thought leaders as part of our mission to promote financial literacy and wellbeing,” said IFW CEO Erik Sussman. “We will continue to keep a close pulse on the changing needs and preferences of our audiences and expand our platform in response to a growing demand for our fact-based, agnostic financial education, resources and services.”

About the Institute of Financial Wellness
The Institute of Financial Wellness is America’s first multi-media financial education company providing free access to the unbiased, engaging, fact-based information Americans need to ensure their best lives. Established by professionals with decades of experience running financial services firms and media companies, the IFW seeks to serve as America’s most trusted company for financial education, resources and services. More information is available at www.the-ifw.com

Full release on: https://www.yahoo.com/now/institute-financial-wellness-introduces-advisory-125600600.html

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersThe Institute of Financial Wellness Introduces Advisory Board of Nationally Noted Thought Leaders
read more

Episode 144: Charting a New Course for the Industry with Dave Levenson

No comments
What role should an industry association play to support the growth of the life insurance and annuity business? This week’s guest, David Levenson has invested a lot of time of energy answering this question. As President and CEO of LIMRA, LOMA & LLGlobal, Dave has redefined the mission, structure, and operations of our major industry association during a period of crisis and rapid change. Today, he gives us an update on the group’s future direction and his perspective on major industry trends.
Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.
We hope you enjoy the show!
Links mentioned in the show:

Thank you to our show sponsor; The Index Standard!

Fixed Index Annuities and RILAs are getting more complex and technical just when fiduciary rules are getting stricter. How do you choose the right index and allocate to them? The Index Standard is your answer. They are an independent provider ratings and forecasts on all indices and ETFs used in the US insurance space. Their process is systematic and unbiased, identifying robust and well-designed indices. We all know finance is complex and The Index Standard has a clear ratings system and uses approachable language to demystify this complexity. Visit theindexstandard.com for more information.

 Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

Transcript

1
00:00:00,905 –> 00:00:06,745
[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

2
00:00:01,995 –> 00:02:00,315

3
00:00:06,825 –> 00:00:08,585
[Paul Tyler]: there’s no tie you lost your tie

4
00:00:09,120 –> 00:00:12,480
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i came back from new york so i don’t i don’t need the uniform anymore

5
00:00:13,945 –> 00:00:19,945
[Paul Tyler]: all right so we’re back to sort of normal attire got a great guest once again okay

6
00:00:21,145 –> 00:00:27,385
[Paul Tyler]: you know i’m ramsey you you you got a very good person on to talk about where the

7
00:00:27,465 –> 00:00:30,345
[Paul Tyler]: industry is headed do you want to introduce him

8
00:00:30,960 –> 00:00:36,080
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah so we’re joined today by dave levinson who’s president and ceo of limber loma

9
00:00:36,160 –> 00:00:38,000
[Ramsey Smith]: and he’s an old friend of yours too paul so

10
00:00:38,045 –> 00:00:39,045
[Paul Tyler]: yes

11
00:00:38,400 –> 00:00:39,920
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m happy to share credit

12
00:00:41,120 –> 00:00:42,240
[Ramsey Smith]: for bringing him on the show

13
00:00:43,840 –> 00:00:49,440
[Ramsey Smith]: dave dave is a is a unique individual in a lot of ways he was at hartford for many

14
00:00:49,600 –> 00:00:53,360
[Ramsey Smith]: years at edward jones and now running limma so

15
00:00:55,200 –> 00:01:00,160
[Ramsey Smith]: the different elements of the industry that he has covered is broad and unique and

16
00:01:00,240 –> 00:01:03,920
[Ramsey Smith]: we’re really delighted to have him join us today so dave welcome

17
00:01:05,040 –> 00:01:09,040
[Ramsey Smith]: let’s get started but would definitely like to hear more about your journey you’ve

18
00:01:09,120 –> 00:01:12,640
[Ramsey Smith]: you’ve covered so many different areas and then now you’re back in at hartford

19
00:01:12,640 –> 00:01:15,760
[Ramsey Smith]: focusing on limma tell us about tell us about that trip

20
00:01:17,215 –> 00:01:20,735
[Dave Levenson]: yeah would would love to first you know ramsey paul thanks for having me and

21
00:01:21,855 –> 00:01:24,895
[Dave Levenson]: it is great spending some time with you guys again it’s spent a little bit little

22
00:01:24,895 –> 00:01:30,095
[Dave Levenson]: bit of time but it is good seeing you in a a casual a more casual environment so

23
00:01:30,975 –> 00:01:33,375
[Dave Levenson]: again thanks for the opportunity to to be with you today

24
00:01:33,540 –> 00:01:34,540
[Ramsey Smith]: so

25
00:01:34,415 –> 00:01:36,975
[Dave Levenson]: so look you know it’s been a fun journey

26
00:01:37,860 –> 00:01:38,860
[Ramsey Smith]: so

27
00:01:38,415 –> 00:01:40,495
[Dave Levenson]: so i was with hartford for seventeen years

28
00:01:41,855 –> 00:01:44,095
[Dave Levenson]: and did a lot of fun and interesting things

29
00:01:45,455 –> 00:01:50,655
[Dave Levenson]: it is the annuity show so i was i was managing the domestic u s business in

30
00:01:50,735 –> 00:01:52,495
[Dave Levenson]: addition to some other responsibilities

31
00:01:53,855 –> 00:01:57,375
[Dave Levenson]: and then you know i had the opportunity to go out to japan which you know was a

32
00:01:57,395 –> 00:01:58,395
[Dave Levenson]: tremendous

33
00:01:59,455 –> 00:02:02,255
[Dave Levenson]: a tremendous amount of fun for me

34
00:02:01,995 –> 00:04:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

35
00:02:03,295 –> 00:02:07,935
[Dave Levenson]: and just incredibly interesting so you know hartford entered and i’m going to

36
00:02:06,045 –> 00:02:07,045
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

37
00:02:07,935 –> 00:02:12,015
[Dave Levenson]: diverge a little bit but just to give you know listeners a background but you know

38
00:02:12,095 –> 00:02:14,015
[Dave Levenson]: hartford entered the

39
00:02:15,035 –> 00:02:16,035
[Dave Levenson]: the japanese

40
00:02:15,780 –> 00:02:16,780
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

41
00:02:16,335 –> 00:02:17,535
[Dave Levenson]: insurance business there was really an

42
00:02:17,515 –> 00:02:18,515
[Dave Levenson]: annuity business

43
00:02:17,620 –> 00:02:18,620
[Ramsey Smith]: so

44
00:02:19,695 –> 00:02:21,455
[Dave Levenson]: in nineteen ninety nine two thousand

45
00:02:22,975 –> 00:02:24,735
[Dave Levenson]: and shot up like a rocket

46
00:02:26,335 –> 00:02:28,095
[Dave Levenson]: and you know within five years

47
00:02:29,935 –> 00:02:34,495
[Dave Levenson]: the company was doing more business in japan than it was in the u s and in the u s

48
00:02:34,575 –> 00:02:37,375
[Dave Levenson]: it was number one in market share so just pretty incredible

49
00:02:37,620 –> 00:02:38,620
[Ramsey Smith]: well

50
00:02:38,095 –> 00:02:41,055
[Dave Levenson]: but then it kind of went down as fast as it went up

51
00:02:42,255 –> 00:02:47,055
[Dave Levenson]: and you know i was sent out there to um try to stabilize things for a little bit

52
00:02:47,375 –> 00:02:52,095
[Dave Levenson]: so i went out spent three years there uh and just it was just

53
00:02:53,135 –> 00:02:56,495
[Dave Levenson]: a tremendous learning experience we did a lot of great things

54
00:02:57,695 –> 00:03:02,175
[Dave Levenson]: but you know ultimately came back after three years and uh you know harford went

55
00:03:02,575 –> 00:03:05,855
[Dave Levenson]: through a lot during the two thousand eight two thousand nine crisis

56
00:03:07,295 –> 00:03:10,895
[Dave Levenson]: and then you know i got to run the life company so life annuities

57
00:03:11,915 –> 00:03:12,915
[Dave Levenson]: retirement plans

58
00:03:13,955 –> 00:03:14,955
[Dave Levenson]: um

59
00:03:17,135 –> 00:03:21,055
[Dave Levenson]: you know that that was a lot of fun for me as well in twenty twelve hartford

60
00:03:21,055 –> 00:03:24,015
[Dave Levenson]: decided to get out of the life business and really focus on pnc

61
00:03:25,055 –> 00:03:27,135
[Dave Levenson]: and at that point ramsay i needed another job

62
00:03:28,255 –> 00:03:32,015
[Dave Levenson]: so you know most of my time was focused on our employees land

63
00:03:33,695 –> 00:03:39,455
[Dave Levenson]: but a fortuitous meeting with edward jones led to my next adventure and i spent

64
00:03:39,615 –> 00:03:44,895
[Dave Levenson]: six years in st louis ultimately leading their product suite in north america for

65
00:03:46,095 –> 00:03:50,895
[Dave Levenson]: everything that they did so advisory platforms mutual funds insurance annuities et

66
00:03:50,895 –> 00:03:55,455
[Dave Levenson]: cetera and that was great and then this opportunity came along around three years

67
00:03:55,475 –> 00:03:56,475
[Dave Levenson]: ago and

68
00:03:57,535 –> 00:04:01,535
[Dave Levenson]: you know at this point in my career the ability to give back to the industry was

69
00:04:01,695 –> 00:04:04,175
[Dave Levenson]: just compelling the ability to get back to the east coast

70
00:04:01,995 –> 00:06:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

71
00:04:05,215 –> 00:04:08,415
[Dave Levenson]: uh to family was compelling and then here we are

72
00:04:10,185 –> 00:04:17,385
[Paul Tyler]: well e look this fascinating journey and i think it it feels long time ago but not

73
00:04:17,465 –> 00:04:22,425
[Paul Tyler]: that far along when yeah we were having a dinner in downtown hartford and you were

74
00:04:22,585 –> 00:04:26,025
[Paul Tyler]: talking to me about i think at that point dave you maybe it had been on the job

75
00:04:27,225 –> 00:04:30,985
[Paul Tyler]: maybe you know i don’t maybe six months and i

76
00:04:30,595 –> 00:04:31,595
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

77
00:04:31,065 –> 00:04:34,025
[Paul Tyler]: know you were doing a huge you know review to say okay

78
00:04:35,065 –> 00:04:39,625
[Paul Tyler]: hey listen lammers come a long ways you know world’s changing you know how do you

79
00:04:39,705 –> 00:04:45,305
[Paul Tyler]: keep an industry association relevant and you’d really taken a undertaken a bold

80
00:04:45,465 –> 00:04:49,545
[Paul Tyler]: strategy to reposition the organization now this was pre covid

81
00:04:50,575 –> 00:04:51,615
[Dave Levenson]: yeah exactly

82
00:04:51,145 –> 00:04:54,345
[Paul Tyler]: so tell us you know what happened covid hit um what had

83
00:04:54,140 –> 00:04:55,140
[Ramsey Smith]: what is that

84
00:04:54,505 –> 00:04:57,625
[Paul Tyler]: happened w you know how did the strategy prove out

85
00:04:57,220 –> 00:04:58,220
[Ramsey Smith]: no

86
00:04:57,765 –> 00:04:58,765
[Paul Tyler]: how did you have to change

87
00:04:59,705 –> 00:05:02,265
[Paul Tyler]: talk to us about the whole covid experience here

88
00:05:03,055 –> 00:05:07,775
[Dave Levenson]: yeah again another uh incredible adventure paul so and you’ve got a good memory so

89
00:05:08,975 –> 00:05:11,855
[Dave Levenson]: you know i joined the association in twenty nineteen

90
00:05:12,975 –> 00:05:15,215
[Dave Levenson]: january twenty nineteen i took over as ceo

91
00:05:16,335 –> 00:05:20,815
[Dave Levenson]: and you know we laid out what we call our compass twenty twenty five so you know

92
00:05:20,895 –> 00:05:24,655
[Dave Levenson]: where were we going over the next five or six years and you know what did do we

93
00:05:24,735 –> 00:05:28,255
[Dave Levenson]: really want to do with the association how could we benefit members all the stuff

94
00:05:28,335 –> 00:05:30,095
[Dave Levenson]: you would end up doing in a strategic plan

95
00:05:31,535 –> 00:05:33,615
[Dave Levenson]: and you know that’s still our north star

96
00:05:34,815 –> 00:05:39,935
[Dave Levenson]: and in some ways in many ways the pandemic which hit just you know fifteen months

97
00:05:39,555 –> 00:05:40,555
[Dave Levenson]: later

98
00:05:41,615 –> 00:05:45,375
[Dave Levenson]: accelerated a lot of things i mean some things we had to slow down on but some

99
00:05:45,535 –> 00:05:47,695
[Dave Levenson]: things we truly accelerated on i’ll give you an example

100
00:05:49,455 –> 00:05:52,655
[Dave Levenson]: one of the things that we said in our plan is we’ve got to do a better job

101
00:05:53,135 –> 00:05:55,295
[Dave Levenson]: connecting with c suite executives

102
00:05:56,495 –> 00:05:57,855
[Dave Levenson]: so a lot of the c suite

103
00:05:58,895 –> 00:06:04,175
[Dave Levenson]: has known us but not everyone in the c suite knew us well and yet we have a lot of

104
00:06:01,995 –> 00:08:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

105
00:06:04,655 –> 00:06:08,655
[Dave Levenson]: wonderful research that you know most people in the c suite should be looking at

106
00:06:09,055 –> 00:06:10,575
[Dave Levenson]: um fairly often

107
00:06:11,615 –> 00:06:16,175
[Dave Levenson]: so what we did early in the pandemic is we created i mean we have about one

108
00:06:16,255 –> 00:06:20,655
[Dave Levenson]: hundred twenty committee study groups that type of stuff but we didn’t have a lot

109
00:06:20,815 –> 00:06:25,855
[Dave Levenson]: for the c suite so we created what we called our cxo committees so we brought

110
00:06:26,175 –> 00:06:31,295
[Dave Levenson]: together cfos and chief investment officers and chief human resource officers and

111
00:06:30,845 –> 00:06:31,845
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

112
00:06:31,375 –> 00:06:33,455
[Dave Levenson]: chief underwriters and chief actuaries

113
00:06:34,655 –> 00:06:36,175
[Dave Levenson]: and the demand for

114
00:06:37,775 –> 00:06:39,535
[Dave Levenson]: executives to talk to one another

115
00:06:40,575 –> 00:06:43,935
[Dave Levenson]: nobody’s been through this pandemic right to talk to one another and say what are

116
00:06:43,935 –> 00:06:48,015
[Dave Levenson]: you experiencing and you know what are best practices and how are you getting

117
00:06:48,175 –> 00:06:52,895
[Dave Levenson]: through this and how are you getting through that it was really a unique time and

118
00:06:53,295 –> 00:06:59,615
[Dave Levenson]: it enabled us as an industry trade to really host some wonderful meetings that

119
00:07:00,275 –> 00:07:01,275
[Dave Levenson]: helped our member companies

120
00:07:01,005 –> 00:07:02,005
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

121
00:07:01,535 –> 00:07:02,895
[Dave Levenson]: kind of get through a pretty tough time

122
00:07:04,415 –> 00:07:07,295
[Dave Levenson]: there were other things that we were able to do that i thought were

123
00:07:07,245 –> 00:07:08,245
[Paul Tyler]: see

124
00:07:07,455 –> 00:07:10,575
[Dave Levenson]: incredibly valuable so go back to twenty twenty

125
00:07:12,335 –> 00:07:15,135
[Dave Levenson]: the markets were pretty crazy right for the first couple of months

126
00:07:16,175 –> 00:07:18,015
[Dave Levenson]: but you remember how low interest rates were

127
00:07:18,020 –> 00:07:19,020
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

128
00:07:18,655 –> 00:07:23,695
[Dave Levenson]: right and we had just taken on a project at the request of some of our board

129
00:07:23,855 –> 00:07:25,215
[Dave Levenson]: members to

130
00:07:24,765 –> 00:07:25,765
[Paul Tyler]: i

131
00:07:25,375 –> 00:07:28,255
[Dave Levenson]: really study low interest rates and the long term impact on the industry

132
00:07:29,375 –> 00:07:35,295
[Dave Levenson]: so we brought together oliver ween and the acl and the three organizations worked

133
00:07:35,375 –> 00:07:40,175
[Dave Levenson]: with over one hundred executives to put out a lot of great insights and research

134
00:07:40,575 –> 00:07:44,655
[Dave Levenson]: about how to get through this low interest rate environment so again in many ways

135
00:07:44,815 –> 00:07:49,855
[Dave Levenson]: the pandemic has helped us um but you know let’s be let’s be honest i mean just

136
00:07:49,935 –> 00:07:52,895
[Dave Levenson]: being working remotely and going through a lot of change has also been a little

137
00:07:52,595 –> 00:07:53,595
[Dave Levenson]: difficult

138
00:07:54,560 –> 00:07:56,800
[Ramsey Smith]: are there any are there any key takeaways

139
00:07:56,445 –> 00:07:57,445
[Paul Tyler]: what

140
00:07:56,880 –> 00:07:58,240
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of big picture takeaways

141
00:07:59,760 –> 00:08:03,920
[Ramsey Smith]: from that study i mean that’s clearly right it’s an industry that lives and

142
00:08:01,995 –> 00:10:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

143
00:08:03,980 –> 00:08:04,980
[Ramsey Smith]: breathes on yield

144
00:08:06,000 –> 00:08:10,240
[Ramsey Smith]: so i’m curious what some of the there were what were some of the key conclusions

145
00:08:09,860 –> 00:08:10,860
[Ramsey Smith]: there

146
00:08:11,695 –> 00:08:15,615
[Dave Levenson]: well you know from uh you know i appreciate that question ramsey from a regulatory

147
00:08:15,775 –> 00:08:16,895
[Dave Levenson]: perspective i would say

148
00:08:18,175 –> 00:08:20,895
[Dave Levenson]: you know the regulators weren’t really um

149
00:08:21,935 –> 00:08:25,775
[Dave Levenson]: ready for this right you know what happens if interest rates go negative and you

150
00:08:25,775 –> 00:08:28,175
[Dave Levenson]: know when rates are when the ten years at one hundred seven

151
00:08:29,215 –> 00:08:33,535
[Dave Levenson]: nobody really thinks about that maybe they do more so than when they were at three

152
00:08:33,235 –> 00:08:34,235
[Dave Levenson]: or

153
00:08:33,460 –> 00:08:34,460
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

154
00:08:33,855 –> 00:08:37,775
[Dave Levenson]: four when they’re at forty or fifty basis points it becomes a little bit of a

155
00:08:37,855 –> 00:08:40,175
[Dave Levenson]: different a different focal point for the industry

156
00:08:41,155 –> 00:08:42,155
[Dave Levenson]: so

157
00:08:42,635 –> 00:08:43,635
[Dave Levenson]: you know i think we

158
00:08:44,575 –> 00:08:48,095
[Dave Levenson]: we got our members to really think about negative rates and the impact of negative

159
00:08:48,415 –> 00:08:50,415
[Dave Levenson]: rates and we got our members to really think through

160
00:08:51,695 –> 00:08:53,775
[Dave Levenson]: what happens if this doesn’t turn quickly

161
00:08:55,215 –> 00:08:59,615
[Dave Levenson]: from a capital management perspective from a sales perspective from a product

162
00:08:59,935 –> 00:09:02,655
[Dave Levenson]: value perspective there’s so many different perspectives

163
00:09:04,415 –> 00:09:10,015
[Dave Levenson]: so i think ultimately ramsay there are a lot of really interesting takeaways i

164
00:09:10,095 –> 00:09:13,775
[Dave Levenson]: know i remember having six subgroups and each subgroup focusing on a different

165
00:09:13,935 –> 00:09:18,975
[Dave Levenson]: dimension and then we had a wrap up presentation at the end of twenty twenty

166
00:09:20,335 –> 00:09:25,535
[Dave Levenson]: but you know here we are what just just a couple years later and now we’re worried

167
00:09:25,615 –> 00:09:29,935
[Dave Levenson]: about you know wage inflation and inflation in general and you know will interest

168
00:09:30,175 –> 00:09:35,695
[Dave Levenson]: rates pop too quickly as opposed to we in a forty basis fifty basis point scenario

169
00:09:35,775 –> 00:09:39,055
[Dave Levenson]: again so it’s interesting how quickly the world changes

170
00:09:40,320 –> 00:09:43,840
[Ramsey Smith]: so you know just just just following up a little bit on that and you talked about

171
00:09:44,000 –> 00:09:48,880
[Ramsey Smith]: your experiences in japan and so things like negative interest rates are something

172
00:09:48,580 –> 00:09:49,580
[Ramsey Smith]: that

173
00:09:50,400 –> 00:09:52,960
[Ramsey Smith]: you probably saw at least on the horizon in

174
00:09:52,675 –> 00:09:53,675
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

175
00:09:52,960 –> 00:09:57,040
[Ramsey Smith]: japan not just not just low and negative but but over a long period of time

176
00:09:58,260 –> 00:09:59,260
[Ramsey Smith]: just very

177
00:09:58,605 –> 00:09:59,605
[Paul Tyler]: great

178
00:09:59,120 –> 00:10:03,760
[Ramsey Smith]: curious about how your experience outside the u s in the insurance industry which

179
00:10:01,995 –> 00:12:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

180
00:10:03,760 –> 00:10:07,680
[Ramsey Smith]: is unusual we can be a very domestic industry if you think about it like you know

181
00:10:07,920 –> 00:10:12,640
[Ramsey Smith]: how that is how that is informed you know your thoughts on the industry and

182
00:10:12,380 –> 00:10:13,380
[Ramsey Smith]: frankly

183
00:10:14,480 –> 00:10:16,480
[Ramsey Smith]: your broader goals for limma

184
00:10:18,095 –> 00:10:20,015
[Dave Levenson]: yeah look it you know the world’s a big world

185
00:10:21,055 –> 00:10:25,615
[Dave Levenson]: and you know i think one of the key lessons for me going through the pandemic was

186
00:10:26,895 –> 00:10:30,415
[Dave Levenson]: you know one of the groups that i mentioned there were six groups looking at these

187
00:10:30,495 –> 00:10:34,495
[Dave Levenson]: slow interest rate what one of the groups looked at just what was going on in

188
00:10:34,575 –> 00:10:38,655
[Dave Levenson]: different parts of the world so what happened in japan what happened in

189
00:10:39,615 –> 00:10:43,935
[Dave Levenson]: switzerland because some of those countries you know we’re in a negative rate

190
00:10:43,875 –> 00:10:44,875
[Dave Levenson]: environment

191
00:10:45,855 –> 00:10:49,215
[Dave Levenson]: and of course in japan they’ve been in a low interest rate environment for an

192
00:10:49,155 –> 00:10:50,155
[Dave Levenson]: awfully long time

193
00:10:51,055 –> 00:10:57,215
[Dave Levenson]: so the ability to kind of look into you know how are those industries working

194
00:10:58,335 –> 00:11:00,975
[Dave Levenson]: what are their concerns challenges

195
00:11:02,015 –> 00:11:05,295
[Dave Levenson]: i think those were some pictures that we were able to really

196
00:11:04,925 –> 00:11:05,925
[Paul Tyler]: oh

197
00:11:05,395 –> 00:11:06,395
[Dave Levenson]: help members with

198
00:11:07,695 –> 00:11:12,655
[Dave Levenson]: but look there’s a lot of different factors at play so i’ll give you i’ll give you

199
00:11:12,395 –> 00:11:13,395
[Dave Levenson]: an example

200
00:11:14,655 –> 00:11:20,415
[Dave Levenson]: of the product that launched hartford in japan and really got us to this amazing

201
00:11:20,595 –> 00:11:21,595
[Dave Levenson]: position

202
00:11:22,975 –> 00:11:24,175
[Dave Levenson]: so it was

203
00:11:25,675 –> 00:11:26,675
[Dave Levenson]: a one year

204
00:11:27,275 –> 00:11:28,275
[Dave Levenson]: annuity

205
00:11:29,375 –> 00:11:31,855
[Dave Levenson]: uh with a payout over fifteen years

206
00:11:32,955 –> 00:11:33,955
[Dave Levenson]: right if

207
00:11:34,975 –> 00:11:40,495
[Dave Levenson]: if you if you’re you had below your prin if the account value were below principle

208
00:11:41,295 –> 00:11:42,815
[Dave Levenson]: so think about it as a gm b

209
00:11:44,415 –> 00:11:46,175
[Dave Levenson]: a twenty five year product

210
00:11:47,775 –> 00:11:52,895
[Dave Levenson]: and all we did was guarantee you’d get your money back over that two five year

211
00:11:53,135 –> 00:11:55,455
[Dave Levenson]: period right and this is this is about low interest

212
00:11:55,300 –> 00:11:56,300
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

213
00:11:55,775 –> 00:11:58,495
[Dave Levenson]: rates so that doesn’t sound like much of a guarantee right

214
00:11:58,260 –> 00:11:59,260
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

215
00:12:00,335 –> 00:12:05,695
[Dave Levenson]: but it enabled hartford to go from nowhere to to more sales than it what it was

216
00:12:01,995 –> 00:14:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

217
00:12:02,660 –> 00:12:03,660
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

218
00:12:05,775 –> 00:12:08,575
[Dave Levenson]: doing in the united states which is pretty incredible

219
00:12:08,020 –> 00:12:09,020
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

220
00:12:10,015 –> 00:12:14,095
[Dave Levenson]: but you know just to finish that story in japan what happened is

221
00:12:15,295 –> 00:12:19,455
[Dave Levenson]: a lot of the domestic players were watching this saying oh my god you know here’s

222
00:12:19,535 –> 00:12:25,455
[Dave Levenson]: this this u company coming in to to japan and you know taking this massive market

223
00:12:25,775 –> 00:12:31,535
[Dave Levenson]: share and you know we can do better than that right so it became like an arms race

224
00:12:32,180 –> 00:12:33,180
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

225
00:12:32,655 –> 00:12:36,735
[Dave Levenson]: and pretty soon people were doing ten year g mab s in a low interest rate

226
00:12:36,515 –> 00:12:37,515
[Dave Levenson]: environment

227
00:12:38,255 –> 00:12:42,255
[Dave Levenson]: and we were looking at it saying you know we went to your former company and said

228
00:12:42,335 –> 00:12:46,255
[Dave Levenson]: how much would it cost to hedge this and the hedge was fifty percent more than the

229
00:12:46,335 –> 00:12:47,375
[Dave Levenson]: price of the product right

230
00:12:47,140 –> 00:12:48,140
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

231
00:12:48,175 –> 00:12:53,135
[Dave Levenson]: so it just became a really crazy environment and just shows you how much

232
00:12:54,335 –> 00:12:57,775
[Dave Levenson]: you really need to understand it’s not just about the sales as you know

233
00:12:59,055 –> 00:13:00,735
[Dave Levenson]: this is a big risk management play

234
00:13:02,175 –> 00:13:03,775
[Dave Levenson]: but putting those pieces together

235
00:13:04,895 –> 00:13:10,415
[Dave Levenson]: was so fascinating again to watch our rise than to watch how the whole industry

236
00:13:10,595 –> 00:13:11,595
[Dave Levenson]: adjusted

237
00:13:11,545 –> 00:13:16,665
[Paul Tyler]: yeah we’ve had a couple of companies on ramsey over the last six months focused on

238
00:13:17,465 –> 00:13:20,665
[Paul Tyler]: flat out optimizing interest rates safe interest rates

239
00:13:20,420 –> 00:13:21,420
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

240
00:13:22,665 –> 00:13:26,185
[Paul Tyler]: it’s interesting dave some have had both of them have had very little to do with

241
00:13:26,345 –> 00:13:31,545
[Paul Tyler]: insurance and annuities but i think they will end up leveraging annuities at some

242
00:13:31,165 –> 00:13:32,165
[Paul Tyler]: point

243
00:13:32,355 –> 00:13:33,355
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

244
00:13:32,985 –> 00:13:36,585
[Paul Tyler]: now with inflation rates again whole new whole new ball game

245
00:13:38,105 –> 00:13:43,785
[Paul Tyler]: maybe talk to us about maybe we could shift to one other sort of sort of big under

246
00:13:44,905 –> 00:13:48,905
[Paul Tyler]: underlying theme pre pandemic during pandemic post and

247
00:13:50,025 –> 00:13:52,825
[Paul Tyler]: post pandemic is going digital right you

248
00:13:52,435 –> 00:13:53,435
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

249
00:13:52,825 –> 00:13:54,425
[Paul Tyler]: know i think before the pandemic

250
00:13:55,625 –> 00:13:57,225
[Paul Tyler]: it was kind of innovation

251
00:13:58,505 –> 00:14:02,745
[Paul Tyler]: thinking about the future felt like the middle of the pandemic was we we just have

252
00:14:01,995 –> 00:16:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

253
00:14:02,825 –> 00:14:04,905
[Paul Tyler]: to do it in order to even do business

254
00:14:06,585 –> 00:14:11,625
[Paul Tyler]: you know where’s the puck headed on on digitization of insurance carriers

255
00:14:13,055 –> 00:14:17,455
[Dave Levenson]: yeah look i think the industry made a lot of progress in the last couple of years

256
00:14:17,775 –> 00:14:19,055
[Dave Levenson]: because it had to right

257
00:14:20,095 –> 00:14:24,415
[Dave Levenson]: so you know on the life side we saw just a big jump in things like accelerated

258
00:14:24,395 –> 00:14:25,395
[Dave Levenson]: underwriting

259
00:14:26,335 –> 00:14:28,815
[Dave Levenson]: we saw a big jump in terms of

260
00:14:29,935 –> 00:14:34,495
[Dave Levenson]: the digitalization tools and the digital tools that advisors need to interface

261
00:14:34,395 –> 00:14:35,395
[Dave Levenson]: with clients

262
00:14:36,020 –> 00:14:37,020
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m so

263
00:14:36,415 –> 00:14:41,775
[Dave Levenson]: and we saw tremendous productivity gains right so all of that i think was very

264
00:14:41,555 –> 00:14:42,555
[Dave Levenson]: positive

265
00:14:43,855 –> 00:14:46,575
[Dave Levenson]: we saw changes in uh

266
00:14:47,695 –> 00:14:52,575
[Dave Levenson]: you know things like e signatures and just again those are all positive things for

267
00:14:52,655 –> 00:14:55,055
[Dave Levenson]: our industry so it is going to continue

268
00:14:56,275 –> 00:14:57,275
[Dave Levenson]: um

269
00:14:57,475 –> 00:14:58,475
[Dave Levenson]: and

270
00:14:57,725 –> 00:14:58,725
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

271
00:14:58,655 –> 00:15:03,215
[Dave Levenson]: you know i’m bullish that some of the changes that i think were long overdue

272
00:15:04,335 –> 00:15:07,375
[Dave Levenson]: have made but there’s still a ways to go for sure

273
00:15:08,415 –> 00:15:10,575
[Dave Levenson]: um you know one of the things that uh

274
00:15:11,615 –> 00:15:16,175
[Dave Levenson]: i think was really good for our industry is uh with life insurance we

275
00:15:15,780 –> 00:15:16,780
[Ramsey Smith]: uh

276
00:15:15,875 –> 00:15:16,875
[Dave Levenson]: saw

277
00:15:17,935 –> 00:15:20,975
[Dave Levenson]: just tremendous demand right and that’s not a surprise in the middle of a pandemic

278
00:15:20,975 –> 00:15:25,455
[Dave Levenson]: so we saw sales at levels that we hadn’t seen since nineteen eighty three

279
00:15:27,535 –> 00:15:29,695
[Dave Levenson]: and even the annuity business which

280
00:15:31,775 –> 00:15:36,575
[Dave Levenson]: really surprising to me has been flat like if you take the pandemic years out it

281
00:15:36,815 –> 00:15:38,975
[Dave Levenson]: it’s been flat for the last decade

282
00:15:40,255 –> 00:15:45,535
[Dave Levenson]: but we saw that that business jumped sixteen percent in aggregate if you just look

283
00:15:45,615 –> 00:15:49,535
[Dave Levenson]: at twenty one versus twenty and twenty was up versus nineteen toward the end of

284
00:15:49,535 –> 00:15:51,375
[Dave Levenson]: the year from a runway perspective so

285
00:15:52,495 –> 00:15:57,775
[Dave Levenson]: so i do think the pandemic’s been good to the industry when it could have been

286
00:15:57,675 –> 00:15:58,675
[Dave Levenson]: really bad

287
00:16:00,175 –> 00:16:04,495
[Dave Levenson]: but to your point about digital there are some things that we did that are great

288
00:16:01,995 –> 00:18:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

289
00:16:04,735 –> 00:16:06,575
[Dave Levenson]: and there’s a lot that we have to still do

290
00:16:06,985 –> 00:16:10,185
[Paul Tyler]: now that’s interesting you mentioned life insurance sales and i’ve heard that i

291
00:16:10,265 –> 00:16:12,665
[Paul Tyler]: mean if the companies i saw dave who had

292
00:16:13,865 –> 00:16:19,145
[Paul Tyler]: you know on they were they had a use signature they had e app they could take

293
00:16:20,185 –> 00:16:24,825
[Paul Tyler]: do direct sales to consumers they can do rapid underwriting they had banner years

294
00:16:24,965 –> 00:16:25,965
[Paul Tyler]: you know i’ve talked to some of my

295
00:16:25,555 –> 00:16:26,555
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

296
00:16:26,105 –> 00:16:27,145
[Paul Tyler]: my peers around the market

297
00:16:29,225 –> 00:16:35,305
[Paul Tyler]: do you think the spike was effectively an acceleration of purchases of insurance

298
00:16:35,785 –> 00:16:41,385
[Paul Tyler]: or do you think it its somehow sort of changed the demand going forward and just

299
00:16:41,465 –> 00:16:42,665
[Paul Tyler]: in the life insurance sector

300
00:16:44,095 –> 00:16:48,815
[Dave Levenson]: yeah so that’s that’s the that’s the sixty four thousand dollar question i’ll say

301
00:16:48,975 –> 00:16:51,855
[Dave Levenson]: that we know that the demand increased so

302
00:16:53,455 –> 00:16:58,335
[Dave Levenson]: we did a study in the fall of two thousand and we know that

303
00:16:59,855 –> 00:17:03,215
[Dave Levenson]: because of the pandemic demand for life insurance increased about thirty one

304
00:17:02,915 –> 00:17:03,915
[Dave Levenson]: percent

305
00:17:04,815 –> 00:17:09,295
[Dave Levenson]: so similar to the study that we did on low interest rates with oliver weyman and

306
00:17:09,295 –> 00:17:14,095
[Dave Levenson]: ac what we did when we saw that pall because we want to be much more action

307
00:17:13,995 –> 00:17:14,995
[Dave Levenson]: oriented

308
00:17:15,855 –> 00:17:22,175
[Dave Levenson]: is we brought all of the life trade associations together so back to a cli finsec

309
00:17:23,055 –> 00:17:30,495
[Dave Levenson]: nab mafa mrt lid which is a the trade association for direct writers life happens

310
00:17:32,255 –> 00:17:37,695
[Dave Levenson]: all of us got together and said this is the time to unify and we came together and

311
00:17:37,935 –> 00:17:40,175
[Dave Levenson]: we we worked with seventy six

312
00:17:41,715 –> 00:17:42,715
[Dave Levenson]: of our member companies

313
00:17:43,695 –> 00:17:45,295
[Dave Levenson]: manufacturers and distributors

314
00:17:46,275 –> 00:17:47,275
[Dave Levenson]: and

315
00:17:47,995 –> 00:17:48,995
[Dave Levenson]: kate thau

316
00:17:50,175 –> 00:17:57,615
[Dave Levenson]: on our pr side every week sent out a kit um to all of these companies about what

317
00:17:57,695 –> 00:18:01,695
[Dave Levenson]: you need to know and it they were fact sheets it was social media

318
00:18:01,995 –> 00:20:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

319
00:18:02,815 –> 00:18:04,815
[Dave Levenson]: it went out to the distribution

320
00:18:05,935 –> 00:18:09,055
[Dave Levenson]: organizations and you know it was our feeling that

321
00:18:09,500 –> 00:18:10,500
[Ramsey Smith]: aw

322
00:18:10,895 –> 00:18:14,255
[Dave Levenson]: everybody became much more aware of their mortality right in the midst of the

323
00:18:13,995 –> 00:18:14,995
[Dave Levenson]: pandemic

324
00:18:15,315 –> 00:18:16,315
[Dave Levenson]: and

325
00:18:17,615 –> 00:18:23,375
[Dave Levenson]: not only was it important for our industry to support customers but we also felt

326
00:18:23,375 –> 00:18:24,655
[Dave Levenson]: like it was our responsibility

327
00:18:26,175 –> 00:18:30,815
[Dave Levenson]: as we heard all of these you know horrific stories so you i really

328
00:18:30,540 –> 00:18:31,540
[Ramsey Smith]: scary

329
00:18:30,975 –> 00:18:35,135
[Dave Levenson]: think this was a good time for our industry to step up and it was just i’m so

330
00:18:35,295 –> 00:18:38,415
[Dave Levenson]: proud of how how the insurance industry did step up

331
00:18:40,640 –> 00:18:46,560
[Ramsey Smith]: so in terms of your vision for for limma i remember we were speaking i think a few

332
00:18:46,380 –> 00:18:47,380
[Ramsey Smith]: weeks ago

333
00:18:48,160 –> 00:18:49,520
[Ramsey Smith]: and you’ve got grand plans

334
00:18:50,640 –> 00:18:57,200
[Ramsey Smith]: so so so so share some of those with us i mean you were you’re obviously doing a

335
00:18:57,200 –> 00:18:59,120
[Ramsey Smith]: lot of things here in the u s it’s interesting because

336
00:19:01,520 –> 00:19:05,360
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s existing organizations that are already trade organizations but you’re

337
00:19:05,360 –> 00:19:09,600
[Ramsey Smith]: playing a unifying role even among the organizations here in the u s and

338
00:19:10,045 –> 00:19:11,045
[Paul Tyler]: it’s

339
00:19:10,560 –> 00:19:14,160
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re taking steps to expand outside the u s tell us tell us about what your

340
00:19:14,020 –> 00:19:15,020
[Ramsey Smith]: vision is there

341
00:19:15,775 –> 00:19:18,015
[Dave Levenson]: yeah ramsay i appreciate the question so

342
00:19:19,615 –> 00:19:21,455
[Dave Levenson]: you know look you know when i came in

343
00:19:22,735 –> 00:19:27,215
[Dave Levenson]: you know limmer hass been around for you know one hundred six years it’s it’s it’s

344
00:19:27,295 –> 00:19:29,775
[Dave Levenson]: um it’s such a wonderful organization

345
00:19:31,695 –> 00:19:34,255
[Dave Levenson]: and so it’s got rich pedigree and

346
00:19:35,295 –> 00:19:38,895
[Dave Levenson]: strong reach in size right it’s the largest

347
00:19:39,995 –> 00:19:40,995
[Dave Levenson]: association in the world

348
00:19:40,605 –> 00:19:41,605
[Paul Tyler]: oh

349
00:19:41,375 –> 00:19:47,215
[Dave Levenson]: supporting life annuity and workplace benefits so there was a lot of great things

350
00:19:47,455 –> 00:19:49,855
[Dave Levenson]: that had been done historically with the association

351
00:19:51,215 –> 00:19:55,695
[Dave Levenson]: but let’s face it our industry was changing and has been changing very very

352
00:19:55,555 –> 00:19:56,555
[Dave Levenson]: quickly

353
00:19:56,915 –> 00:19:57,915
[Dave Levenson]: so

354
00:19:58,575 –> 00:20:02,655
[Dave Levenson]: i think it’s our responsibility to get ahead of it and help guide our member

355
00:20:01,995 –> 00:22:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

356
00:20:02,975 –> 00:20:04,975
[Dave Levenson]: companies through a lot of this type of stuff

357
00:20:06,175 –> 00:20:10,095
[Dave Levenson]: so one of the first things that we did as part of our strategic review as we kind

358
00:20:10,175 –> 00:20:14,655
[Dave Levenson]: of stepped back and said look why do we exist why are we here and what would

359
00:20:14,895 –> 00:20:19,695
[Dave Levenson]: happen if we weren’t here so that enabled us to step back and you know something

360
00:20:19,935 –> 00:20:23,615
[Dave Levenson]: as basic as developing a purpose statement right and we developed a purpose

361
00:20:23,695 –> 00:20:25,375
[Dave Levenson]: statement that said what you know why we here

362
00:20:26,235 –> 00:20:27,235
[Dave Levenson]: and we’re

363
00:20:26,660 –> 00:20:27,660
[Ramsey Smith]: your

364
00:20:27,055 –> 00:20:32,335
[Dave Levenson]: here to advance the financial services industry by empowering our members with

365
00:20:32,495 –> 00:20:36,015
[Dave Levenson]: knowledge insights connections and solutions

366
00:20:38,095 –> 00:20:39,775
[Dave Levenson]: so that purpose statement

367
00:20:40,975 –> 00:20:45,135
[Dave Levenson]: allowed us to be very very focused on the things that we should do and the things

368
00:20:45,155 –> 00:20:46,155
[Dave Levenson]: that we shouldn’t do

369
00:20:47,295 –> 00:20:51,135
[Dave Levenson]: so when i think about things like knowledge i think about professional development

370
00:20:52,735 –> 00:20:58,415
[Dave Levenson]: and we have a designation program fm which is one of the largest in the world

371
00:21:00,255 –> 00:21:02,015
[Dave Levenson]: and over a hundred thousand people

372
00:21:01,885 –> 00:21:02,885
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

373
00:21:02,035 –> 00:21:03,035
[Dave Levenson]: have

374
00:21:02,580 –> 00:21:03,580
[Ramsey Smith]: cheese

375
00:21:02,735 –> 00:21:04,255
[Dave Levenson]: taken the fli designation

376
00:21:05,535 –> 00:21:10,175
[Dave Levenson]: but our designation i mean this is this is probably one hundred fifty hours to get

377
00:21:10,255 –> 00:21:14,495
[Dave Levenson]: your full designation is that where the world is going or do people want more

378
00:21:14,475 –> 00:21:15,475
[Dave Levenson]: quick hits

379
00:21:16,415 –> 00:21:19,935
[Dave Levenson]: so we’re shifting a little bit more toward foundational education

380
00:21:21,315 –> 00:21:22,315
[Dave Levenson]: was shifting to

381
00:21:22,340 –> 00:21:23,340
[Ramsey Smith]: just

382
00:21:22,415 –> 00:21:26,815
[Dave Levenson]: executive development work but that’s not something that we should do it’s

383
00:21:26,815 –> 00:21:30,095
[Dave Levenson]: something that we can partner with a wharton to do and in fact

384
00:21:31,695 –> 00:21:33,935
[Dave Levenson]: in the summer uh it’s gonna be our first

385
00:21:34,975 –> 00:21:38,495
[Dave Levenson]: program for wh executive education with lira

386
00:21:40,255 –> 00:21:41,535
[Dave Levenson]: and we only had a hundred

387
00:21:41,540 –> 00:21:42,540
[Ramsey Smith]: i guess

388
00:21:41,695 –> 00:21:45,455
[Dave Levenson]: seats because that’s all wharton would give us and here we are in march and we’re

389
00:21:45,455 –> 00:21:47,935
[Dave Levenson]: sold out right we’ve got fifty four companies

390
00:21:48,085 –> 00:21:49,085
[Paul Tyler]: hm

391
00:21:48,835 –> 00:21:49,835
[Dave Levenson]: that have signed up

392
00:21:49,420 –> 00:21:50,420
[Ramsey Smith]: wow

393
00:21:49,775 –> 00:21:51,695
[Dave Levenson]: for this and you go to wharton you

394
00:21:51,405 –> 00:21:52,405
[Paul Tyler]: yes

395
00:21:51,855 –> 00:21:55,855
[Dave Levenson]: go to the wharton school one week a year for three years and you know

396
00:21:55,485 –> 00:21:56,485
[Paul Tyler]: that

397
00:21:55,935 –> 00:22:00,015
[Dave Levenson]: you’re taught about you’re taught by some of the best professors in the world

398
00:22:00,335 –> 00:22:04,735
[Dave Levenson]: about how to work through this change and navigate this change and you know the

399
00:22:01,995 –> 00:24:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

400
00:22:04,735 –> 00:22:08,255
[Dave Levenson]: peer group you meet et cetera et cetera so you know i’m going down a little bit of

401
00:22:08,255 –> 00:22:12,095
[Dave Levenson]: a rabbit hole but what i’m trying to do is give you a sense that we’re looking at

402
00:22:12,255 –> 00:22:15,535
[Dave Levenson]: our knowledge bucket we’re looking at our insights bucket we’re looking at our

403
00:22:15,535 –> 00:22:19,535
[Dave Levenson]: solutions bucket we’re looking at our connections bucket and we’re saying what

404
00:22:19,775 –> 00:22:20,895
[Dave Levenson]: does that need to look like

405
00:22:21,915 –> 00:22:22,915
[Dave Levenson]: in three years

406
00:22:23,935 –> 00:22:28,415
[Dave Levenson]: for us to be truly indispensable to our members and we have a full

407
00:22:28,340 –> 00:22:29,340
[Ramsey Smith]: what else

408
00:22:28,575 –> 00:22:32,255
[Dave Levenson]: fledged plan as far as what we’re going to do this year next year the year after

409
00:22:33,935 –> 00:22:39,375
[Dave Levenson]: to enable us to get to that point of indispensable with the vast majority of our

410
00:22:39,455 –> 00:22:43,055
[Dave Levenson]: members so again i could go on and on about different examples of different things

411
00:22:42,880 –> 00:22:45,600
[Ramsey Smith]: well so i’ve got two questions first one was so after three

412
00:22:43,215 –> 00:22:44,975
[Dave Levenson]: we’ve done but yeah

413
00:22:45,245 –> 00:22:46,245
[Paul Tyler]: we

414
00:22:45,680 –> 00:22:50,000
[Ramsey Smith]: years one one week a month you said like do you come out with an mba or what is

415
00:22:49,780 –> 00:22:50,780
[Ramsey Smith]: what is

416
00:22:50,445 –> 00:22:51,445
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

417
00:22:50,940 –> 00:22:51,940
[Ramsey Smith]: are you

418
00:22:51,855 –> 00:22:56,895
[Dave Levenson]: well that’d be a three week nba right um no you come out with a certificate and

419
00:22:57,055 –> 00:23:00,735
[Dave Levenson]: you know candidly we modeled this after a program that already existed

420
00:23:00,820 –> 00:23:01,820
[Ramsey Smith]: got it okay

421
00:23:01,615 –> 00:23:02,735
[Dave Levenson]: it’s called si

422
00:23:02,660 –> 00:23:03,660
[Ramsey Smith]: uhhuh

423
00:23:02,975 –> 00:23:06,655
[Dave Levenson]: and it’s between sif ma the securities industry and wharton

424
00:23:06,500 –> 00:23:07,500
[Ramsey Smith]: got it

425
00:23:07,615 –> 00:23:10,255
[Dave Levenson]: and whenever i went out and i talked to our member companies

426
00:23:09,805 –> 00:23:10,805
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

427
00:23:10,495 –> 00:23:13,135
[Dave Levenson]: they had no idea what i was talking about when i brought up that program and i

428
00:23:13,215 –> 00:23:17,135
[Dave Levenson]: said you know i went through it when i was with edward jones it was a phenomenal

429
00:23:16,835 –> 00:23:17,835
[Dave Levenson]: program

430
00:23:17,380 –> 00:23:18,380
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

431
00:23:18,495 –> 00:23:22,975
[Dave Levenson]: why shouldn’t our industry have the same thing so that’s essentially what we did

432
00:23:23,295 –> 00:23:28,015
[Dave Levenson]: and the people on our team that put this together just doing an exceptional job

433
00:23:28,175 –> 00:23:31,215
[Dave Levenson]: and i’m super excited about what it’s going to look like in july

434
00:23:31,520 –> 00:23:34,560
[Ramsey Smith]: and the second thing was you said you were talking about things you should do and

435
00:23:34,620 –> 00:23:35,620
[Ramsey Smith]: shouldn’t do so i

436
00:23:35,395 –> 00:23:36,395
[Dave Levenson]: right

437
00:23:35,500 –> 00:23:36,500
[Ramsey Smith]: can’t resist

438
00:23:38,035 –> 00:23:39,035
[Dave Levenson]: right right

439
00:23:39,440 –> 00:23:43,120
[Ramsey Smith]: what would what were the things you get what were the things you you thought that

440
00:23:43,280 –> 00:23:46,880
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe you could deemphasize if if it’s not controversial

441
00:23:48,335 –> 00:23:50,735
[Dave Levenson]: yeah you know i’m not sure i want to go into a ton of detail

442
00:23:50,660 –> 00:23:51,660
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

443
00:23:51,055 –> 00:23:54,175
[Dave Levenson]: about that type of stuff but what i’ll share with you is

444
00:23:55,695 –> 00:24:02,095
[Dave Levenson]: you know we are an industry association which means if we’re not going deep with

445
00:24:01,995 –> 00:26:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

446
00:24:02,175 –> 00:24:04,975
[Dave Levenson]: our solutions with fifteen twenty fifty companies

447
00:24:06,175 –> 00:24:09,375
[Dave Levenson]: there’s probably limited value uh in what we do

448
00:24:09,140 –> 00:24:10,140
[Ramsey Smith]: uhuh

449
00:24:10,315 –> 00:24:11,315
[Dave Levenson]: so we had

450
00:24:10,605 –> 00:24:11,605
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

451
00:24:11,375 –> 00:24:12,815
[Dave Levenson]: a lot of solutions that

452
00:24:14,495 –> 00:24:16,975
[Dave Levenson]: three companies picked up or two companies picked up

453
00:24:18,015 –> 00:24:21,215
[Dave Levenson]: and candidly we’ve done away with several of those

454
00:24:21,980 –> 00:24:22,980
[Ramsey Smith]: got it all

455
00:24:22,365 –> 00:24:23,365
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

456
00:24:22,420 –> 00:24:23,420
[Ramsey Smith]: right

457
00:24:23,645 –> 00:24:24,645
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

458
00:24:24,180 –> 00:24:25,180
[Ramsey Smith]: very helpful

459
00:24:25,945 –> 00:24:31,305
[Paul Tyler]: yeah absolutely uh now we also do have a lot of agents who are listening

460
00:24:31,355 –> 00:24:32,355
[Dave Levenson]: yeah yeah

461
00:24:31,465 –> 00:24:32,665
[Paul Tyler]: and i know agents

462
00:24:34,425 –> 00:24:37,145
[Paul Tyler]: i’m trying to think if i’m an agent i know lira from

463
00:24:38,005 –> 00:24:39,005
[Paul Tyler]: you know

464
00:24:38,180 –> 00:24:39,180
[Ramsey Smith]: am

465
00:24:38,825 –> 00:24:40,585
[Paul Tyler]: taking my sorry am

466
00:24:40,365 –> 00:24:41,365
[Paul Tyler]: l

467
00:24:40,420 –> 00:24:41,420
[Ramsey Smith]: am ml

468
00:24:40,995 –> 00:24:41,995
[Dave Levenson]: am

469
00:24:41,485 –> 00:24:42,485
[Paul Tyler]: t taking my

470
00:24:42,475 –> 00:24:43,475
[Dave Levenson]: absolutely

471
00:24:42,665 –> 00:24:48,105
[Paul Tyler]: licensing you know uh or take my mandatory training there’s a lot of stuff i

472
00:24:48,265 –> 00:24:49,865
[Paul Tyler]: probably don’t know um

473
00:24:51,385 –> 00:24:54,825
[Paul Tyler]: how does how does your industry touch me as an agent

474
00:24:58,315 –> 00:24:59,315
[Dave Levenson]: yeah so

475
00:25:00,075 –> 00:25:01,075
[Dave Levenson]: when i think about

476
00:25:02,015 –> 00:25:06,255
[Dave Levenson]: and i’ll give you i’ll go a little deeper now so i gave you a little bit of a

477
00:25:06,655 –> 00:25:10,815
[Dave Levenson]: vision for knowledge i’ll give you a little bit of a vision for insights all right

478
00:25:10,895 –> 00:25:13,775
[Dave Levenson]: so when you think about insights think about our

479
00:25:13,660 –> 00:25:14,660
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

480
00:25:13,935 –> 00:25:17,535
[Dave Levenson]: research organization which is the heart of who we are and who we’ve been

481
00:25:18,655 –> 00:25:19,775
[Dave Levenson]: um we’ve got about

482
00:25:21,055 –> 00:25:25,535
[Dave Levenson]: thirty percent of our organization that’s focused on the research function thirty

483
00:25:25,775 –> 00:25:27,375
[Dave Levenson]: percent of our three hundred twenty people

484
00:25:28,755 –> 00:25:29,755
[Dave Levenson]: so

485
00:25:30,495 –> 00:25:32,095
[Dave Levenson]: when i think about uh

486
00:25:33,135 –> 00:25:37,775
[Dave Levenson]: where we are very focused again we used to do a lot of stuff we just the

487
00:25:37,380 –> 00:25:38,380
[Ramsey Smith]: but

488
00:25:37,855 –> 00:25:41,215
[Dave Levenson]: breadth of what we did was incredible and this might get back into what did we

489
00:25:41,375 –> 00:25:46,575
[Dave Levenson]: stop doing and now what we’re saying is we are very focused on three verticals

490
00:25:47,375 –> 00:25:51,055
[Dave Levenson]: life insurance annuities and workplace benefits

491
00:25:52,095 –> 00:25:53,615
[Dave Levenson]: and there are three functions

492
00:25:54,895 –> 00:25:59,295
[Dave Levenson]: that we are very focused on because we could we could go all over the place with

493
00:25:59,455 –> 00:26:04,175
[Dave Levenson]: life annuity and workplace benefits but from a research perspective we are focused

494
00:26:01,995 –> 00:28:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

495
00:26:04,195 –> 00:26:05,195
[Dave Levenson]: on distribution

496
00:26:06,415 –> 00:26:11,535
[Dave Levenson]: and we are focused on the customer and customer insights and we are focused on

497
00:26:11,775 –> 00:26:16,095
[Dave Levenson]: product those are the three so when you think about you know paul your question

498
00:26:16,075 –> 00:26:17,075
[Dave Levenson]: you know

499
00:26:17,935 –> 00:26:22,815
[Dave Levenson]: we are going to be doing a lot of research in that we call it our three by three

500
00:26:23,775 –> 00:26:26,895
[Dave Levenson]: so annuity distribution is one of those boxes

501
00:26:28,015 –> 00:26:33,695
[Dave Levenson]: and you know we will be able to provide a lot of research to

502
00:26:35,295 –> 00:26:39,695
[Dave Levenson]: our members that manufacture products and our members that distribute products

503
00:26:40,735 –> 00:26:48,015
[Dave Levenson]: about annuity distribution so what do advisors want and what do customers want and

504
00:26:48,095 –> 00:26:53,455
[Dave Levenson]: how do advisors meet those needs and we’ve got a ton of research already that

505
00:26:53,535 –> 00:26:56,975
[Dave Levenson]: we’ve done around these things but we’re going to get even more focused around it

506
00:26:59,165 –> 00:27:00,165
[Paul Tyler]: got it

507
00:27:01,545 –> 00:27:05,225
[Paul Tyler]: again from the agent perspective i’ll stick to our area

508
00:27:05,395 –> 00:27:06,395
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

509
00:27:05,465 –> 00:27:09,545
[Paul Tyler]: annuities we talked about life insurance lots of change you know i think

510
00:27:09,460 –> 00:27:10,460
[Ramsey Smith]: i think i like

511
00:27:09,625 –> 00:27:13,145
[Paul Tyler]: about my career dev it work i started with a mutual it turned into a public

512
00:27:12,925 –> 00:27:13,925
[Paul Tyler]: company

513
00:27:14,075 –> 00:27:15,075
[Dave Levenson]: hello

514
00:27:14,985 –> 00:27:18,425
[Paul Tyler]: worked for a private equity owned insurance company when i think it was you know

515
00:27:18,425 –> 00:27:22,505
[Paul Tyler]: we were one of the first few now it seems to be you know private equity ownership

516
00:27:22,585 –> 00:27:23,625
[Paul Tyler]: is almost the the

517
00:27:24,180 –> 00:27:25,180
[Ramsey Smith]: becoming the norm

518
00:27:24,965 –> 00:27:25,965
[Paul Tyler]: it is the norm

519
00:27:26,275 –> 00:27:27,275
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

520
00:27:27,145 –> 00:27:30,745
[Paul Tyler]: but lots of change you know you got pe firms coming in but

521
00:27:30,355 –> 00:27:31,355
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

522
00:27:30,825 –> 00:27:31,865
[Paul Tyler]: then you see a lot of companies

523
00:27:32,985 –> 00:27:37,305
[Paul Tyler]: boxing up their annuity business and giving it to people to run as closed blocks

524
00:27:37,085 –> 00:27:38,085
[Paul Tyler]: how do i

525
00:27:37,475 –> 00:27:38,475
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

526
00:27:37,865 –> 00:27:41,785
[Paul Tyler]: make sense of this as an agent you know do i need to worry about it is this just

527
00:27:41,865 –> 00:27:47,065
[Paul Tyler]: sort of a normal changing of the guard in an industry and whose bank account is is

528
00:27:47,225 –> 00:27:48,425
[Paul Tyler]: backing the products

529
00:27:49,295 –> 00:27:53,535
[Dave Levenson]: he again you you’re asking all the right questions and i wish i had a crystal ball

530
00:27:53,615 –> 00:27:58,575
[Dave Levenson]: to tell you kind of what it all means but what it does mean is that again there’s

531
00:27:58,435 –> 00:27:59,435
[Dave Levenson]: a lot of change

532
00:28:00,335 –> 00:28:04,735
[Dave Levenson]: so the industry just in the last twenty four months has changed tremendously

533
00:28:01,995 –> 00:30:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

534
00:28:05,855 –> 00:28:07,935
[Dave Levenson]: with the amount of private equity firms that

535
00:28:08,675 –> 00:28:09,675
[Dave Levenson]: are

536
00:28:10,815 –> 00:28:15,135
[Dave Levenson]: in place and you know people always say you know dave is that good or is it bad

537
00:28:15,215 –> 00:28:18,815
[Dave Levenson]: and i say look i don’t know if it is good or i don’t know if it is bad it just is

538
00:28:19,535 –> 00:28:21,695
[Dave Levenson]: right and that’s our reality so

539
00:28:22,735 –> 00:28:27,055
[Dave Levenson]: you know when i think about and again you know edward jones had eighteen thousand

540
00:28:27,375 –> 00:28:31,055
[Dave Levenson]: financial advisors when i think about the role of the financial advisor

541
00:28:32,335 –> 00:28:36,335
[Dave Levenson]: they’ve got to make sure that the products and solutions that they bring to

542
00:28:36,195 –> 00:28:37,195
[Dave Levenson]: customers

543
00:28:38,115 –> 00:28:39,115
[Dave Levenson]: meet their needs

544
00:28:40,575 –> 00:28:41,855
[Dave Levenson]: and are good for

545
00:28:42,975 –> 00:28:47,215
[Dave Levenson]: the time period that the customer wants them to be good for right so if i’m fifty

546
00:28:47,455 –> 00:28:51,535
[Dave Levenson]: five and i want to turn income on at sixty five i need a product that’s going to

547
00:28:51,615 –> 00:28:53,215
[Dave Levenson]: be around for twenty thirty forty years

548
00:28:55,075 –> 00:28:56,075
[Dave Levenson]: so

549
00:28:56,735 –> 00:29:02,175
[Dave Levenson]: i think with the help of insurance regulators there’s a lot of products that are

550
00:29:02,495 –> 00:29:05,935
[Dave Levenson]: in force that are still good products and whether they’re owned by

551
00:29:06,875 –> 00:29:07,875
[Dave Levenson]: you know

552
00:29:08,495 –> 00:29:12,255
[Dave Levenson]: you know blackstone or whether they’re owned by a traditional mutual company i’m

553
00:29:12,335 –> 00:29:13,695
[Dave Levenson]: not sure it matters that much

554
00:29:14,735 –> 00:29:15,935
[Dave Levenson]: um you know i think

555
00:29:17,135 –> 00:29:21,055
[Dave Levenson]: there’s a lot of solvency for the companies that are backing those products

556
00:29:22,175 –> 00:29:29,295
[Dave Levenson]: as it go as it has implications to new products right and what advisors or agents

557
00:29:29,235 –> 00:29:30,235
[Dave Levenson]: could get excited about

558
00:29:31,215 –> 00:29:32,575
[Dave Levenson]: i think it’s going to open up

559
00:29:34,015 –> 00:29:36,735
[Dave Levenson]: more creativity and innovation in

560
00:29:36,420 –> 00:29:37,420
[Ramsey Smith]: so

561
00:29:36,475 –> 00:29:37,475
[Dave Levenson]: our space

562
00:29:38,415 –> 00:29:41,695
[Dave Levenson]: anytime you have new entrants that’s what they do right to disrupt i’ve got to

563
00:29:41,775 –> 00:29:45,535
[Dave Levenson]: come up with different solutions different ways of doing business i’m a big

564
00:29:45,695 –> 00:29:47,775
[Dave Levenson]: believer that that is never a bad thing

565
00:29:49,135 –> 00:29:52,975
[Dave Levenson]: so it’s good good for customers and ultimately i think it’s good for our industry

566
00:29:52,995 –> 00:29:53,995
[Dave Levenson]: so

567
00:29:55,215 –> 00:29:59,455
[Dave Levenson]: those that get in front of the change and those that can leverage the change

568
00:29:59,775 –> 00:30:02,815
[Dave Levenson]: effectively you’re going to win i think over the next several years

569
00:30:01,995 –> 00:32:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

570
00:30:03,600 –> 00:30:07,680
[Ramsey Smith]: so now you brought up pardon me you brought up as one of your three key areas

571
00:30:08,720 –> 00:30:10,480
[Ramsey Smith]: workplace benefits and

572
00:30:10,115 –> 00:30:11,115
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

573
00:30:11,440 –> 00:30:15,120
[Ramsey Smith]: secure act is something we’ve talked about on this show a lot and something

574
00:30:14,675 –> 00:30:15,675
[Dave Levenson]: yes

575
00:30:15,360 –> 00:30:17,920
[Ramsey Smith]: i spend a lot of time thinking about in terms of my own

576
00:30:18,940 –> 00:30:19,940
[Ramsey Smith]: business objectives

577
00:30:19,405 –> 00:30:20,405
[Paul Tyler]: well

578
00:30:20,900 –> 00:30:21,900
[Ramsey Smith]: very interested to hear

579
00:30:24,000 –> 00:30:29,440
[Ramsey Smith]: what sort of thoughts have been developed within limma vc v vc v

580
00:30:30,800 –> 00:30:35,840
[Ramsey Smith]: implant annuities and other other initiatives that are essentially born of the

581
00:30:35,660 –> 00:30:36,660
[Ramsey Smith]: secure act

582
00:30:36,445 –> 00:30:37,445
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

583
00:30:37,120 –> 00:30:41,120
[Ramsey Smith]: would love to get your perspective is somebody one who sort of in the middle of

584
00:30:41,200 –> 00:30:44,720
[Ramsey Smith]: the in the middle of the industry united nations if you will

585
00:30:46,560 –> 00:30:49,040
[Ramsey Smith]: and how many years do you think it’s going to take before it really

586
00:30:50,080 –> 00:30:51,200
[Ramsey Smith]: finds its momentum

587
00:30:52,895 –> 00:30:56,415
[Dave Levenson]: yeah uh so ramsay you probably know more about this than i do

588
00:30:57,615 –> 00:31:03,455
[Dave Levenson]: but you know what i’d share with you is you know the secure act good thing right a

589
00:31:03,535 –> 00:31:05,615
[Dave Levenson]: good thing that it requires an annuity solution

590
00:31:07,215 –> 00:31:08,415
[Dave Levenson]: on a lot of these plans

591
00:31:09,775 –> 00:31:11,055
[Dave Levenson]: but you know early on again

592
00:31:12,175 –> 00:31:15,775
[Dave Levenson]: if i’m a provider of the industry if i’m a four hundred one thousand provider i

593
00:31:15,935 –> 00:31:19,695
[Dave Levenson]: kind of look at this and say you know meps peps good bad

594
00:31:19,460 –> 00:31:20,460
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

595
00:31:20,175 –> 00:31:23,935
[Dave Levenson]: growing fast i mean so the fact that we can get in front of this

596
00:31:25,135 –> 00:31:29,215
[Dave Levenson]: because we’re so good with benchmarking i mean it’s kind of when i talk about

597
00:31:29,375 –> 00:31:33,855
[Dave Levenson]: research the heart of our research is our benchmarking so people will look to us

598
00:31:33,675 –> 00:31:34,675
[Dave Levenson]: and say

599
00:31:35,935 –> 00:31:40,815
[Dave Levenson]: alright i’ve been watching but like is this happening like what’s happened the

600
00:31:40,815 –> 00:31:45,375
[Dave Levenson]: first couple of months and we provide those insights to our members which is super

601
00:31:45,195 –> 00:31:46,195
[Dave Levenson]: helpful

602
00:31:46,895 –> 00:31:52,975
[Dave Levenson]: similar for implant annuities and you know you know as well as i do that the take

603
00:31:53,155 –> 00:31:54,155
[Dave Levenson]: on that has been slow

604
00:31:54,980 –> 00:31:55,980
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

605
00:31:55,315 –> 00:31:56,315
[Dave Levenson]: so

606
00:31:57,455 –> 00:32:01,615
[Dave Levenson]: there are a number of plans that are offering these solutions

607
00:32:01,995 –> 00:34:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

608
00:32:03,055 –> 00:32:06,495
[Dave Levenson]: but at the participant level it’s still fairly complicated

609
00:32:08,335 –> 00:32:11,535
[Dave Levenson]: but i’m so when you ask the question how long will it take

610
00:32:13,695 –> 00:32:18,655
[Dave Levenson]: i think about this and i say are implant annuities the right thing or the wrong

611
00:32:18,975 –> 00:32:20,015
[Dave Levenson]: thing right

612
00:32:21,215 –> 00:32:24,095
[Dave Levenson]: and i say for a retirement plan

613
00:32:25,375 –> 00:32:26,895
[Dave Levenson]: they’re absolutely the right thing

614
00:32:27,795 –> 00:32:28,795
[Dave Levenson]: because

615
00:32:30,015 –> 00:32:35,375
[Dave Levenson]: we are getting tax preferred treatment on retirement plans because the government

616
00:32:35,775 –> 00:32:38,415
[Dave Levenson]: wants us to help people in retirement right

617
00:32:38,260 –> 00:32:39,260
[Ramsey Smith]: yep

618
00:32:39,295 –> 00:32:44,015
[Dave Levenson]: and the best way to help people in retirement is to ensure that people have income

619
00:32:44,815 –> 00:32:47,775
[Dave Levenson]: while they’re in retirement at the end of the day that’s what that’s what you know

620
00:32:48,015 –> 00:32:52,575
[Dave Levenson]: the government is is supporting us to do thats what we should do so i’m a big

621
00:32:52,655 –> 00:32:57,215
[Dave Levenson]: believer in implant annuities it’s just it’s a very sophisticated solution

622
00:32:57,935 –> 00:33:02,815
[Dave Levenson]: relative to what people are used to it may maybe it’s not super sophisticate it’s

623
00:33:02,815 –> 00:33:06,815
[Dave Levenson]: just different right but when i think about back to your question paul about

624
00:33:06,975 –> 00:33:13,215
[Dave Levenson]: digital and the role of i think that’s all gonna come together nicely and i do i

625
00:33:13,295 –> 00:33:17,295
[Dave Levenson]: am bullish that we’re going to see growth in that space but i don’t think it’s

626
00:33:17,375 –> 00:33:23,295
[Dave Levenson]: going to be at you know a speed at a level of speed that you know over the next

627
00:33:22,980 –> 00:33:23,980
[Ramsey Smith]: true

628
00:33:23,455 –> 00:33:26,255
[Dave Levenson]: two or three years is gonna you know break any speed records

629
00:33:26,800 –> 00:33:28,080
[Ramsey Smith]: got it so i have

630
00:33:28,155 –> 00:33:29,155
[Dave Levenson]: but it’s coming

631
00:33:28,240 –> 00:33:33,360
[Ramsey Smith]: i have one more one more question uh that really sort of harks back to your time

632
00:33:33,520 –> 00:33:35,600
[Ramsey Smith]: at edward jones so you were

633
00:33:35,395 –> 00:33:36,395
[Dave Levenson]: do

634
00:33:36,080 –> 00:33:40,560
[Ramsey Smith]: you were working for you know one of the premier sort of financial advisory firms

635
00:33:40,720 –> 00:33:45,120
[Ramsey Smith]: in the united states and you know you were you you’re coming in there as an

636
00:33:45,280 –> 00:33:51,040
[Ramsey Smith]: insurance expert one of the tensions in the industry is how we engage with

637
00:33:51,840 –> 00:33:54,880
[Ramsey Smith]: financial advisors effectively so

638
00:33:54,435 –> 00:33:55,435
[Dave Levenson]: yeah

639
00:33:55,840 –> 00:33:59,440
[Ramsey Smith]: meeting them where they are in terms of the kind of products they’ll like they

640
00:33:59,600 –> 00:34:02,080
[Ramsey Smith]: like compensation structure et cetera

641
00:34:01,995 –> 00:36:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

642
00:34:03,520 –> 00:34:08,000
[Ramsey Smith]: any insights it means that you can share from that experience would be would be

643
00:34:05,085 –> 00:34:06,085
[Paul Tyler]: sure

644
00:34:08,100 –> 00:34:09,100
[Ramsey Smith]: would be fascinating

645
00:34:10,655 –> 00:34:15,055
[Dave Levenson]: yeah look edward jones is an exceptional firm as are a lot of the other

646
00:34:16,335 –> 00:34:19,775
[Dave Levenson]: firms out there that a lot of the you know your listeners work for

647
00:34:21,375 –> 00:34:25,615
[Dave Levenson]: but you know one of the things that i respected greatly about the organization is

648
00:34:25,695 –> 00:34:27,775
[Dave Levenson]: that its focus on the consumer

649
00:34:29,695 –> 00:34:35,375
[Dave Levenson]: and ensuring that whatever we did was right by the customer and we had checks and

650
00:34:35,455 –> 00:34:40,335
[Dave Levenson]: balances all all through the organization to ensure that that was always true

651
00:34:41,875 –> 00:34:42,875
[Dave Levenson]: so

652
00:34:43,595 –> 00:34:44,595
[Dave Levenson]: vmc what

653
00:34:44,125 –> 00:34:45,125
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

654
00:34:44,575 –> 00:34:50,095
[Dave Levenson]: i’ll do is i’ll draw i’ll draw a little analogy here right because this is the way

655
00:34:50,255 –> 00:34:53,935
[Dave Levenson]: i always used to think about things so think about how much time and effort

656
00:34:55,935 –> 00:34:59,935
[Dave Levenson]: the industry is spending on fiduciary and

657
00:35:00,975 –> 00:35:06,415
[Dave Levenson]: the dol rule and the sec rule and the syncing up of the rules and where’s it going

658
00:35:06,895 –> 00:35:08,735
[Dave Levenson]: and you know and then think

659
00:35:08,445 –> 00:35:09,445
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

660
00:35:08,895 –> 00:35:13,855
[Dave Levenson]: about the core of what it’s designed to do right at the end of the day it’s really

661
00:35:14,175 –> 00:35:18,655
[Dave Levenson]: designed to protect consumers right to ensure

662
00:35:20,015 –> 00:35:25,215
[Dave Levenson]: that whatever somebody sells them is right for them right

663
00:35:26,575 –> 00:35:30,575
[Dave Levenson]: and then think about um if you step back and think about

664
00:35:31,315 –> 00:35:32,315
[Dave Levenson]: how many

665
00:35:32,915 –> 00:35:33,915
[Dave Levenson]: um

666
00:35:34,575 –> 00:35:36,655
[Dave Levenson]: consumers sit down with an advisor

667
00:35:37,695 –> 00:35:42,175
[Dave Levenson]: and truly get a broad based plan that addresses all of their needs

668
00:35:42,915 –> 00:35:43,915
[Dave Levenson]: right

669
00:35:44,435 –> 00:35:45,435
[Dave Levenson]: and insurance

670
00:35:47,275 –> 00:35:48,275
[Dave Levenson]: retirement income

671
00:35:49,635 –> 00:35:50,635
[Dave Levenson]: investments

672
00:35:51,615 –> 00:35:55,615
[Dave Levenson]: uh college planning that all has to factor in together

673
00:35:57,455 –> 00:36:03,935
[Dave Levenson]: so the way i looked at it is that is the gold standard that’s what every advisor

674
00:36:01,995 –> 00:38:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss

675
00:36:04,095 –> 00:36:08,255
[Dave Levenson]: should be doing and look i know life insurance can be very clunky right sometimes

676
00:36:08,495 –> 00:36:12,415
[Dave Levenson]: you have to fill out an application and maybe it’s more paper intensive than it

677
00:36:12,155 –> 00:36:13,155
[Dave Levenson]: should be

678
00:36:13,855 –> 00:36:19,055
[Dave Levenson]: but is it necessary for a forty year old with a young family to have life

679
00:36:18,835 –> 00:36:19,835
[Dave Levenson]: insurance

680
00:36:20,655 –> 00:36:25,375
[Dave Levenson]: and if i’m an advisor is that my responsibility right back to again

681
00:36:26,895 –> 00:36:29,375
[Dave Levenson]: the uh the concept of fiduciary

682
00:36:30,575 –> 00:36:35,455
[Dave Levenson]: so in my heart right and i think in your hearts and i think in most advisors

683
00:36:35,615 –> 00:36:40,095
[Dave Levenson]: hearts that is absolutely what they should be doing and they can point to

684
00:36:40,255 –> 00:36:43,375
[Dave Levenson]: insurance and say it’s clunky or they can point to annuities and say the

685
00:36:43,615 –> 00:36:47,295
[Dave Levenson]: technology is not where it needs to be and things aren’t integrated but

686
00:36:48,655 –> 00:36:52,575
[Dave Levenson]: we as financial professionals need to go that extra mile

687
00:36:53,695 –> 00:36:57,855
[Dave Levenson]: and ensure that it’s all coming together the right way even if it’s extra work

688
00:36:58,895 –> 00:37:03,535
[Dave Levenson]: because our responsibility is to make sure that consumers are invested and have

689
00:37:03,755 –> 00:37:04,755
[Dave Levenson]: protection where they should

690
00:37:06,425 –> 00:37:08,105
[Paul Tyler]: wow that that that’s great

691
00:37:08,540 –> 00:37:09,540
[Ramsey Smith]: absolutely

692
00:37:09,705 –> 00:37:15,225
[Paul Tyler]: it is now we’re almost at the top top of our time so dave i i’ve got the big y

693
00:37:15,545 –> 00:37:18,665
[Paul Tyler]: question so you’ve got a huge board

694
00:37:20,025 –> 00:37:25,545
[Paul Tyler]: of i’m sure probably if you have twenty members on your board i you got two strong

695
00:37:25,855 –> 00:37:28,255
[Dave Levenson]: twenty five yeah yeah yeah

696
00:37:26,105 –> 00:37:27,225
[Paul Tyler]: strong opinion right

697
00:37:30,165 –> 00:37:31,165
[Paul Tyler]: you know you’ve

698
00:37:33,385 –> 00:37:38,745
[Paul Tyler]: you’ve got a very complicated organization a lot of different set of very

699
00:37:38,985 –> 00:37:42,585
[Paul Tyler]: important services that you deliver to the industry why do you do this

700
00:37:43,165 –> 00:37:44,165
[Paul Tyler]: why

701
00:37:43,835 –> 00:37:44,835
[Dave Levenson]: why do i do it

702
00:37:44,365 –> 00:37:45,365
[Paul Tyler]: yeah why do you

703
00:37:48,580 –> 00:37:49,580
[Ramsey Smith]: so

704
00:37:49,295 –> 00:37:55,455
[Dave Levenson]: so paul i i think i think that this is a little bit of a higher calling for me

705
00:37:55,155 –> 00:37:56,155
[Dave Levenson]: right

706
00:37:56,735 –> 00:38:02,175
[Dave Levenson]: i i love what our industry does i think it serves an incredible purpose so whether

707
00:38:01,995 –> 00:40:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

708
00:38:02,335 –> 00:38:06,895
[Dave Levenson]: it’s life insurance or annuities or even you know investments long term care

709
00:38:07,935 –> 00:38:14,655
[Dave Levenson]: you know you know group life group disability they are wonderful solutions for so

710
00:38:14,815 –> 00:38:16,975
[Dave Levenson]: many people in our country and so many people in the world

711
00:38:18,495 –> 00:38:22,335
[Dave Levenson]: and if i can just take this last leg of my career

712
00:38:23,315 –> 00:38:24,315
[Dave Levenson]: and help

713
00:38:26,495 –> 00:38:30,895
[Dave Levenson]: more companies deliver those solutions effectively to consumers

714
00:38:32,015 –> 00:38:33,535
[Dave Levenson]: then i think there’s more value

715
00:38:35,135 –> 00:38:37,775
[Dave Levenson]: i do in this role than working

716
00:38:37,565 –> 00:38:38,565
[Paul Tyler]: sure

717
00:38:38,335 –> 00:38:43,615
[Dave Levenson]: any one company trying to influence what that one company does so you know it’s a

718
00:38:43,695 –> 00:38:48,575
[Dave Levenson]: privilege to work with a trade association much more so than i could ever have

719
00:38:48,735 –> 00:38:54,095
[Dave Levenson]: imagined and you know yeah i’ve got a large board but it’s not a corporate board

720
00:38:54,175 –> 00:38:58,895
[Dave Levenson]: right a corporate board with twenty five people would be a circus i’ve got a i’ve

721
00:38:58,895 –> 00:39:04,575
[Dave Levenson]: got a member board of twenty five people and you know they provide me guidance and

722
00:39:04,735 –> 00:39:06,255
[Dave Levenson]: advice and stewardship

723
00:39:07,615 –> 00:39:09,775
[Dave Levenson]: but they’re also the consumers of what we do

724
00:39:11,135 –> 00:39:15,215
[Dave Levenson]: and that’s one of the key reasons that we have twenty five people but i’ve got to

725
00:39:15,295 –> 00:39:17,135
[Dave Levenson]: tell you i work with some of the best people

726
00:39:18,575 –> 00:39:22,495
[Dave Levenson]: every day whether it’s these leaders of uh of our member companies

727
00:39:23,615 –> 00:39:26,895
[Dave Levenson]: or whether it’s the employees that i’m privileged to lead every day and

728
00:39:27,935 –> 00:39:30,095
[Dave Levenson]: it’s been a thrill that that’ why i do it paul

729
00:39:30,985 –> 00:39:35,465
[Paul Tyler]: thank you yeah and and thank you dave i think what you’re doing is is tremendous i

730
00:39:35,465 –> 00:39:40,345
[Paul Tyler]: mean limmer really has had a huge impact in the past i think what you’re where

731
00:39:40,425 –> 00:39:44,745
[Paul Tyler]: you’re headed what you’ve done over the last couple of years has been phenomenal

732
00:39:45,465 –> 00:39:49,705
[Paul Tyler]: and you know i can’t wait to see uh what the next chapter is so

733
00:39:49,935 –> 00:39:55,375
[Dave Levenson]: yeah it’ll it’ll be fun you know before you guys cut me off i do want to promised

734
00:39:55,375 –> 00:39:59,535
[Dave Levenson]: ramsey this just gives you a sense for some of our annuity research because

735
00:39:59,695 –> 00:40:04,335
[Dave Levenson]: there’s some fun stuff coming so annuity income by race and ethnicity this report

736
00:40:01,995 –> 00:42:00,315
[kate_theroux]: Ssssssssssssss,

737
00:40:04,575 –> 00:40:06,095
[Dave Levenson]: is coming out real soon from us

738
00:40:07,215 –> 00:40:10,735
[Dave Levenson]: the upside and the downside of annuity product selection

739
00:40:07,280 –> 00:40:08,480
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m so now but

740
00:40:11,060 –> 00:40:12,060
[Ramsey Smith]: yes

741
00:40:11,715 –> 00:40:12,715
[Dave Levenson]: that is already out

742
00:40:13,775 –> 00:40:15,935
[Dave Levenson]: annuities what do advisors think

743
00:40:17,135 –> 00:40:18,495
[Dave Levenson]: that research is already out

744
00:40:19,695 –> 00:40:22,255
[Dave Levenson]: a reference guide which is like a two hundred page

745
00:40:23,775 –> 00:40:27,855
[Dave Levenson]: book about the retail retirement reference guide the fifth edition

746
00:40:28,435 –> 00:40:29,435
[Dave Levenson]: um

747
00:40:30,095 –> 00:40:34,975
[Dave Levenson]: uh we’ve got uh a forecast a future view of annuity sales we didn’t even talk

748
00:40:35,055 –> 00:40:40,575
[Dave Levenson]: about riles and fis and so people should certainly tune in for that and gosh we’ve

749
00:40:40,575 –> 00:40:44,015
[Dave Levenson]: got a lot of convening opportunities with our conferences and our committees and

750
00:40:44,335 –> 00:40:47,455
[Dave Levenson]: if any of the listeners would like to have more information about this just

751
00:40:47,935 –> 00:40:49,775
[Dave Levenson]: contact me or anybody at limma

752
00:40:50,205 –> 00:40:51,205
[Paul Tyler]: that’s great right

753
00:40:50,560 –> 00:40:53,920
[Ramsey Smith]: so yes how do people get that debt obviously members get that data

754
00:40:54,960 –> 00:40:58,240
[Ramsey Smith]: if you’re an agent or an agency do you subscribe

755
00:40:59,440 –> 00:41:01,680
[Ramsey Smith]: how do they get exposure to all that great information

756
00:41:02,575 –> 00:41:06,175
[Dave Levenson]: yeah you know again we’re a member based organization so most of the stuff we do

757
00:41:06,075 –> 00:41:07,075
[Dave Levenson]: is for our

758
00:41:06,740 –> 00:41:07,740
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

759
00:41:06,975 –> 00:41:09,695
[Dave Levenson]: membership but our membership is not

760
00:41:11,295 –> 00:41:16,175
[Dave Levenson]: unique to the carriers anymore so distribution firms almost all of the large

761
00:41:16,335 –> 00:41:22,735
[Dave Levenson]: broker dealers our members a lot of the large insurance bg’s our members we’re

762
00:41:22,815 –> 00:41:25,855
[Dave Levenson]: always looking for more members and then you know we

763
00:41:25,460 –> 00:41:26,460
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

764
00:41:26,015 –> 00:41:30,335
[Dave Levenson]: share some of these things obviously with other trade associations whether you

765
00:41:30,335 –> 00:41:33,135
[Dave Levenson]: know it’s finsec as an example on the

766
00:41:34,575 –> 00:41:40,015
[Dave Levenson]: on the life insurance side or riri as an example on the annuity side so we’re all

767
00:41:40,095 –> 00:41:44,175
[Dave Levenson]: big on sharing if it helps make the industry a lot stronger

768
00:41:43,940 –> 00:41:44,940
[Ramsey Smith]: fantastic

769
00:41:45,065 –> 00:41:50,825
[Paul Tyler]: excellent hey dave thanks so much for spending some time with us and ramsey any

770
00:41:51,065 –> 00:41:52,665
[Paul Tyler]: anything else on your end

771
00:41:53,280 –> 00:41:55,280
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m excited to see what the preacher holds

772
00:41:56,320 –> 00:42:02,480
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m really excited to see what what dave has in mind to g lim lomas influence

773
00:42:01,675 –> 00:42:31,995
[kate_theroux]: Iss.

774
00:42:03,040 –> 00:42:06,480
[Ramsey Smith]: outside the u s internationally so i’m watching with great interest

775
00:42:07,085 –> 00:42:08,085
[Paul Tyler]: excellent

776
00:42:07,295 –> 00:42:10,815
[Dave Levenson]: i’d love to come back and tell you about our international plans it’s it’s pretty

777
00:42:10,635 –> 00:42:11,635
[Dave Levenson]: exciting

778
00:42:11,145 –> 00:42:12,505
[Paul Tyler]: oh great okay you’re on

779
00:42:12,400 –> 00:42:13,600
[Ramsey Smith]: be careful what you wish for

780
00:42:14,265 –> 00:42:15,785
[Paul Tyler]: we’ll we’ll write this down and

781
00:42:17,465 –> 00:42:21,305
[Paul Tyler]: look yeah dave all right listen thanks so much and hey thanks all to all our

782
00:42:21,465 –> 00:42:27,385
[Paul Tyler]: listeners join us again next week for another episode of that annuity show thanks

783
00:42:27,020 –> 00:42:28,020
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you

784
00:42:27,295 –> 00:42:29,455
[Dave Levenson]: great seeing you guys and thanks for doing this

785
00:42:27,295 –> 00:42:29,455
[Dave Levenson]: great seeing you guys and thanks for doing this

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 144: Charting a New Course for the Industry with Dave Levenson
read more

401k Education Without Walls And Beyond Boundaries

No comments

By Christopher Carosa

Finance is hard. It’s harder if you’ve never learned about it. Chances are if you’re an adult you’ve had precious little in terms of financial literacy training. In fact, the most exposure you’ve had might probably be at your regular 401k employee meeting. That likely isn’t the ideal environment to learn.

“In adult learning, we say that adults learn what they want to learn when they want to learn it,” says Jay Zigmont, Founder of Live, Learn, Plan in Water Valley, Mississippi. “The best chance we have to help adults to change is to have resources ready for them when they need them. Adults want to learn when they are going through or preparing for some transition or life event. For example, when they are starting a job there may be an opportunity for them to learn about benefits and the impact on their financial plan.”

Certainly, having new hires sit down and learn about company benefits is standard fare for the company onboarding process. But doesn’t this also represent an opportunity to think outside the box? Because a new job often suggests a major change in one’s life, the onboarding experience can be redesigned to address employee needs beyond the walls of the conference room.

Paul Tyler, CMO at Nassau Financial Group in Hartford, Connecticut, says, “We’re often guilty of creating too much art for ourselves. Unfortunately, many tools and books are written by and for the already-financially literate population. We, as an industry, need to listen harder to the real financial problems faced by those with little knowledge and large needs. And then we must rethink the tools we build that will help deliver relevant solutions for them.”

“Employers and retirement plan sponsors should provide more holistic financial education resources as opposed to content that is singular in focus on retirement planning only,” says Courtney Hale, Chief Hope Dealer at Super Money Kids Co. in Nashville, Tennessee. “It’s really difficult to adequately contribute to retirement when you are buried by student loans and paying for daycare in a city with a high cost of living. Our monthly budget impacts how much we are able to contribute to retirement. Our debt repayment plan impacts our budget which impacts how much we are able to contribute to retirement and so forth. There needs to be more emphasis on how these things can work together for a more prosperous future.”

Still, the very mechanism of delivery may be faulty.

“Employers have the administrator of their company 401k plan provide seminars,” says Havis T. Bardouille of Bardouille Financial and host of the Tuesdays with Terrence Financial Insights Podcast in Lancaster, South Carolina. “But just because they offer them, does not mean their employees understand them fully. They can follow up with ongoing series, workshops, or resource documents. Mailers and social media campaigns are great options too for adults who are more private and may not want to attend a public gathering to alert others that they lack financial knowledge. Adults learning financial literacy need to be taught more strategically and customized for their later stages in life to take away the difficulty of the task. They need long-term tailor-made plans, but also, quick tips that are valuable and strategic, that can reveal results quickly.”

One of the most cost-effective methods for addressing the challenges of employee financial literacy training is video.

“Video gives people the most amount of information in the shortest amount of time,” says Robert Weiss, President of MultiVision Digital in New York City, who has produced over 1,000 videos over the past 11 years, many of them on the subject of money. “When busy people go to learn, they seek video first. Video tells as opposed to having them read and figure things out. Video is easy to rewatch and share versus re-read.”

In addition to offering the advantage of privacy, videos have no bounds of use. It’s been around for a while, but NetFlix et al have made ‘binge-watching’ a social norm. Is this habit about to trickle down into 401k education and financial literacy in general?

“Employees can access the videos on their own time when they’re most able to absorb the information,” says Shawn Plummer, CEO of The Annuity Expert in Atlanta, Georgia. “What’s more, many of the concepts can be hard to grasp at first, but with rewatching, closed captions, and transcripts, the information absorption becomes easier.”

Imagine what you do when you want to learn how to fix something in your house that you’ve never fixed before. You look it up on the internet and read how to do it. After going through a few articles and still not confident you know enough, you through in the towel and play a video that shows you how to do it.

This works for what ever appliance, yard tool, or stingy stain you need answers on. And it’s right there at your figure tips whenever you need it. Wouldn’t it be great to find financial solutions the same way?

“For especially dense topics, videos are a way to make personal finance content more engaging and easier to understand,” says Gabi Slemer, CEO & founder of Finasana in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. “A video library can also be tailored to individuals’ interests and needs so that they can watch only the topics that interest them and therefore are more likely to be fully engaged than during a traditional meeting.”

To be truly effective, 401k plan sponsors can’t rely on just one generic video. You need a fairly comprehensive selection to address the variety of needs out there. You never know when someone has a desire to learn something. An extensive array of short videos covering narrow topics provides an efficient way for employees to gain more satisfaction with the benefits package offered by the company.

“Online video libraries give adults time to process the information,” says Jerry Han, CMO of PrizeRebel in Los Angeles, California. “Assignments and application sessions are highly personal, and many adults don’t have the time to do them immediately. Online video libraries give them time to process the information. The e-learning experience becomes much more effective when adults can set aside a 20-minute session for learning. In-person education meetings are usually given in lecture form, not giving students the time to truly dig into the information. In-person 401k educational meetings don’t give adults preferential times for learning. That usually means adults suffer from fatigue and don’t understand difficult material when given in large doses.”

And going back to that household repair process, where you really take your time before acting, financial videos can give employees the confidence – and the time – to make those important financial decisions.

“401k videos can provide real-life applications and connect to e-learning activities,” says Stewart Dunlop, Founder of LinkBuilder in Edinburgh, Scotland. “Traditional in-person training often doesn’t go into depth. Videos allow for tangents, for moving into directions most in-person training can’t due to time constraints.”

Now that you understand the value of video, you’re probably wondering about some of the more practical aspects of the medium. For example, how long should videos be? Here, you’ll find answers from across the spectrum.

Slemer says, “3 to 5 minutes, consistent with adult learning principles. Shorter videos are better at keeping attention spans and allowing individuals to process one topic at a time and fully grasp it before moving on to the next. Ideally, a library with sequential videos that cover micro topics one at a time.”

Han, on the other hand, says, “20-minute videos are the best length. Humans generally struggle to focus after 25 minutes, so retaining optimal focus during education settings gives them the time to fully devote themselves to learning. Breaking those videos into chapters and sessions is also helpful. If adults only have a short time to learn, they can always refer back to chapters within videos to pick up where they left off.”

In the spirit of not-too-hot/not-too-cold, Plummer says, “Try to stick to the 10-15 minute mark. You’ll notice that most online courses follow this rule of thumb as well. It’s a standard across information genres.”

But Weiss provides the answer you’d expect from a film producer. He says it “depends on the content at hand.  There is no rule aside from ‘never make a video longer than it has to be.’”

The next most important question is how do you arrange the material. Even though videos can be short and focus only on one small topic, that doesn’t mean they can’t be sorted into broader categories.

“When it comes to financial literacy topics,” says Slemer, “there are three basic rules that make up overall financial planning: (1) save money, (2) avoid (or get out of) bad debt, and (3) invest for the future. Of course, each of these topics can be further broken down into greater detail to be fully explained, which is where a video series comes in!”

You’ll probably want to find the right talent for the videos you offer. That doesn’t mean you’ll be making the videos. Someone else will. You just want to know about the folks creating that content. After all, just because you can do an internet search for financial literacy videos doesn’t mean the advice and lessons offered in those videos are sound.

“The challenge right now is that the primary resource people use when they want to learn may be the Internet,” says Zigmont. “The Internet allows you to have information at your fingertips, but without context. The result for many people is that they end up trying to solve each problem with whatever is popular that day, resulting in a financial plan that is disjointed and not heading towards their goals.”

Although it’s good to have some entertainment value in these videos, don’t lose sight of their real purpose.

“Videos need to be relatable enough that users will benefit from them,” says Slemer. “However, relatability is not a substitution for education and knowledge. You should always ask questions about the creators’ background: why are they giving me financial advice, are they qualified to do so (and if so, by whom?), and why should I trust them? If you can’t answer these questions, I would strongly suggest fact-checking the information you get with more reputable sources!”

One obvious/not-so-obvious choice is people who teach for a living.

“Financial educators should make the videos,” says Dunlop. “Professors in finance understand the basics of retirement contribution law. Because most financial educators have experience in online courses (due to COVID), they can provide a solid outline. Professionals within the 401k sphere. They can answer questions regarding fees, the best financial options for 401k support, and how to create your own should you work for yourself.”

How can you be sure your video library is accessible to your employees? Are these videos better delivered on an open platform like YouTube or behind an “employees” company website?

“If you’re making your own videos for a limited audience (employees, namely), then keep them on your own platform,” says Plummer. “YouTube gives you a lot of data on your viewers, which isn’t useful information if you’re not trying to build an audience. You can keep the videos on YouTube unlisted if you need to use their platform.”

It’s generally easier to control how videos are stored on the “library shelf” if you use the company website. Already YouTube does allow for something similar to this, navigating their platform requires a certain level of internet familiarity and intuition. This isn’t something you can count on among every single employee.

“The benefit of an open platform like YouTube is that the content is widely available and accessible to everyone,” says Slemer. “The detriment, however, is that by its very nature the content ends up being viewed as a one-off and not part of a sequence, which can be harmful to overall comprehension and understanding because it then becomes difficult to conceptualize as part of a greater topic.”

Finally, it’s important to remember no single method of delivery is foolproof. They all have shortcomings, including video. The bigger question is how to overcome these shortcomings (if you can).

“When you create mass content via any delivery method (such as videos), you’re generally creating content for the lowest common denominator within your target audience,” says Slemer. “As a huge proponent of eliminating jargon and answering the ‘stupid’ questions that are on everyone’s mind, I find videos to be a huge advantage to help level the playing field. Having said that, this means that the content can be quite generalized, and people may feel that it isn’t specific enough to their situation, which can be mitigated by ancillary offerings, such as 1×1 guidance or Q&A.”

That lack of live talent is the major drawback of videos.

“Videos don’t offer immediate support,” says Han. “If you have questions, teachers can’t immediately answer them. Only 48% of people believe that e-learning is as effective as online learning, mostly because they can’t ask questions. Provide FAQ sections for every section. Assign someone with no experience to go through the video and answer their questions in a FAQ section. The more people you ask, the more in-depth your course becomes.”

Oddly enough, while the lack of a live teacher presents one problem, the lack of a live audience provides another.

“On the other end of the spectrum,” says Slemer, “it’s also incredibly easy to fall prey to the ‘curse of knowledge,’ especially when you don’t have a captive audience giving you live feedback and asking questions. The curse of knowledge is a cognitive bias that occurs when you unknowingly assume that others have the background to understand the information you are conveying (enter: ‘jargon’). You overcome this by creating a community and tailoring your videos to their needs.”

In a few years, employee 401k education meetings might be a thing of the past. In the future, it’ll be all about those weekend 401k education binge parties.

Break out the popcorn!

See the article on FiduciaryNews.com: https://fiduciarynews.com/2022/04/401k-education-without-walls-and-beyond-boundaries/ 

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley Saunders401k Education Without Walls And Beyond Boundaries
read more

Episode 143: When Should Your Client Pay Off The Mortgage With Jason Fichtner

No comments
Should your client pay off their mortgage as they head into retirement?  Today, Jason Fichtner joins us again to talk about the risks inherent in answering this question with confidence. Jason is Vice President and Chief Economist at the Bipartisan Policy Center and Senior Fellow for the Alliance for Lifetime Income.
Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Links mentioned today:

 

 Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

Tanscript

1
00:00:05,819 –> 00:00:10,699
[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and

2
00:00:12,059 –> 00:00:14,539
[Paul Tyler]: this is a special one but sometimes you know we have

3
00:00:15,899 –> 00:00:21,499
[Paul Tyler]: interviews with guest ramsey that beg for a part two and this certainly was the

4
00:00:21,499 –> 00:00:26,779
[Paul Tyler]: case for an interview we did about a month and a half ago do you wanna set it up

5
00:00:27,437 –> 00:00:34,237
[Ramsey Smith]: sure so we had jason fitch on about a month and a half ago and we talked about a

6
00:00:34,317 –> 00:00:38,877
[Ramsey Smith]: number of amazing subjects including social security and we just got

7
00:00:38,939 –> 00:00:40,059
[Paul Tyler]: let talking about

8
00:00:39,037 –> 00:00:44,157
[Ramsey Smith]: started talking about mortgages and decisions sets around mortgages

9
00:00:45,197 –> 00:00:48,317
[Ramsey Smith]: and today we’re going to continue that conversation when we left off so just to

10
00:00:48,317 –> 00:00:50,717
[Ramsey Smith]: reintroduce jason he is the

11
00:00:50,559 –> 00:00:51,559
[Paul Tyler]: like

12
00:00:50,797 –> 00:00:55,917
[Ramsey Smith]: vice president chief economist at the bipartisan policy center and he’s a senior

13
00:00:55,997 –> 00:00:58,957
[Ramsey Smith]: fellow for the alliance for lifetime income so he and the

14
00:00:58,559 –> 00:00:59,559
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

15
00:00:59,037 –> 00:01:03,357
[Ramsey Smith]: alliance have been great friends of great friends of the show and we’re just happy

16
00:01:03,597 –> 00:01:05,437
[Ramsey Smith]: to have them back so jason welcome back

17
00:01:05,359 –> 00:01:06,359
[Paul Tyler]: back and

18
00:01:05,917 –> 00:01:09,917
[Ramsey Smith]: and like just first of all like for for people that are new in the

19
00:01:09,719 –> 00:01:10,719
[Paul Tyler]: the audience

20
00:01:09,997 –> 00:01:15,117
[Ramsey Smith]: audience or for people that are that are coming back just remind us again that you

21
00:01:15,197 –> 00:01:17,997
[Ramsey Smith]: know the things that the work that you’re doing for

22
00:01:19,037 –> 00:01:23,197
[Ramsey Smith]: for the alliance and for the bipartisan policy center and let’s get right into it

23
00:01:23,137 –> 00:01:24,137
[Ramsey Smith]: on mortgages

24
00:01:24,160 –> 00:01:27,120
[Jason Fitcher]: awesome well thank you both for having me back it’s good great to see you and

25
00:01:27,360 –> 00:01:29,280
[Jason Fitcher]: again and looking forward to the conversation

26
00:01:30,560 –> 00:01:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: my responsibilities and roles you know my fun

27
00:01:32,959 –> 00:01:33,959
[Paul Tyler]: what

28
00:01:33,520 –> 00:01:37,520
[Jason Fitcher]: job if you will is to help people have a financially secure retirement that’s

29
00:01:37,119 –> 00:01:38,119
[Paul Tyler]: oh

30
00:01:37,600 –> 00:01:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: kind of my mission in life and i get to do that both the bipartisan policy center

31
00:01:41,600 –> 00:01:46,560
[Jason Fitcher]: and at the alliance for lifetime income and it’s talking about protected income

32
00:01:46,960 –> 00:01:51,520
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s an understanding of how to help people be more secure in retirement when

33
00:01:51,680 –> 00:01:54,960
[Jason Fitcher]: thinking about protected income and that just does not just mean annuities which

34
00:01:55,040 –> 00:01:57,920
[Jason Fitcher]: you talked about last time it’s also social security which is a form protected

35
00:01:58,000 –> 00:02:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: income and it’s helping people understand what the role of social security and

36
00:02:02,000 –> 00:02:07,280
[Jason Fitcher]: other protected income means for having a financially secure retirement one in

37
00:02:07,360 –> 00:02:08,880
[Jason Fitcher]: which they can spend and

38
00:02:08,737 –> 00:02:09,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yes

39
00:02:09,120 –> 00:02:13,920
[Jason Fitcher]: enjoy retirement and one in which they can mitigate risks and too often we’ve been

40
00:02:14,080 –> 00:02:18,880
[Jason Fitcher]: brought up on this culture of you need to save save sake which i’m very in favor

41
00:02:18,960 –> 00:02:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: of you need to maximize your return which i’m also in favor of but we don’t often

42
00:02:22,560 –> 00:02:26,880
[Jason Fitcher]: talk about what the risks are and we help people save for retirement through our

43
00:02:26,880 –> 00:02:29,680
[Jason Fitcher]: four hundred one thousand plans our four hundred three bs and iras we have

44
00:02:29,760 –> 00:02:33,600
[Jason Fitcher]: employer sponsored plans we have a lot of tax advantages people get to retirement

45
00:02:33,680 –> 00:02:37,920
[Jason Fitcher]: we say have a nice day and they’re looking around for help and what do they do now

46
00:02:38,080 –> 00:02:41,920
[Jason Fitcher]: with these defined contribution assets they built up they were afraid of spending

47
00:02:42,000 –> 00:02:44,640
[Jason Fitcher]: them down and running out of money retirement how do we

48
00:02:44,257 –> 00:02:45,257
[Ramsey Smith]: so

49
00:02:44,720 –> 00:02:50,000
[Jason Fitcher]: help them psychologically and financially make sure they can draw down that income

50
00:02:50,080 –> 00:02:52,800
[Jason Fitcher]: appropriately whether it’s through protected income strategies like annuities

51
00:02:52,880 –> 00:02:56,720
[Jason Fitcher]: whether it’s drawdown strategies whether it’s thinking about debt and what does it

52
00:02:56,720 –> 00:02:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: do with debt levels because that’s very important both from a financial standpoint

53
00:03:00,160 –> 00:03:04,240
[Jason Fitcher]: and a psychological level how do we help them have the best retirement and we can

54
00:03:04,240 –> 00:03:07,680
[Jason Fitcher]: do that with the funding our future campaign we have the bipartisan policy center

55
00:03:07,920 –> 00:03:10,480
[Jason Fitcher]: and the alliance to lifetime income and the research were doing at the retirement

56
00:03:10,480 –> 00:03:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: income institute and we had a great discussion last time so for the new audience

57
00:03:14,560 –> 00:03:18,240
[Jason Fitcher]: members who didn’t listen please pull up the last episode about a month and a half

58
00:03:18,240 –> 00:03:21,760
[Jason Fitcher]: ago and we left it off we ran out of time but we were talking about whether or not

59
00:03:21,840 –> 00:03:24,560
[Jason Fitcher]: people should pay off their mortgage and retirement and i had mentioned some

60
00:03:24,640 –> 00:03:28,720
[Jason Fitcher]: previous research i had done that showed that with each successive generation less

61
00:03:29,360 –> 00:03:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: people are paying off their mortgage before they enter retirement and what does

62
00:03:32,720 –> 00:03:35,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that mean do you have some financial professionals telling you of course interest

63
00:03:35,820 –> 00:03:36,820
[Jason Fitcher]: rates are low you

64
00:03:36,497 –> 00:03:37,497
[Ramsey Smith]: yep

65
00:03:36,880 –> 00:03:40,480
[Jason Fitcher]: shouldn’t pay it off invest that money someplace else others are saying you want

66
00:03:40,640 –> 00:03:44,560
[Jason Fitcher]: to risk a less risky retirement pay off your house and use that investment in that

67
00:03:44,640 –> 00:03:48,640
[Jason Fitcher]: cash or something else what do you do and that’s where we left and we’re hoping to

68
00:03:48,720 –> 00:03:49,760
[Jason Fitcher]: tee it off again today

69
00:03:51,339 –> 00:03:56,059
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well and i guess for most people right if you said what are the biggest

70
00:03:56,139 –> 00:03:59,339
[Paul Tyler]: assets in retirement it would be number one probably social security

71
00:04:01,179 –> 00:04:05,179
[Paul Tyler]: probably number two would be any equity you have in your house and maybe you know

72
00:04:05,179 –> 00:04:08,059
[Paul Tyler]: if you’re lucky you’ve got a four hundred one thousand jason is that is that kind

73
00:04:08,059 –> 00:04:09,499
[Paul Tyler]: of the right way to think about it

74
00:04:09,060 –> 00:04:10,060
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

75
00:04:09,777 –> 00:04:10,777
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah think about

76
00:04:09,920 –> 00:04:13,760
[Jason Fitcher]: to think about when you think about an asset and retirement so the the beauty of

77
00:04:13,840 –> 00:04:17,840
[Jason Fitcher]: social security is it pays your scheme of income but it’s not giving you a lump su

78
00:04:18,000 –> 00:04:21,360
[Jason Fitcher]: so you can’t go to social security right now and say hello i’m sixty seven i would

79
00:04:21,440 –> 00:04:25,200
[Jason Fitcher]: like my lifetime have income as a lu sum and then you think of an asset you think

80
00:04:25,280 –> 00:04:29,600
[Jason Fitcher]: of it as an income stream but you are right to talk about it as an asset the

81
00:04:29,359 –> 00:04:30,359
[Paul Tyler]: no

82
00:04:29,760 –> 00:04:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: house and your four one k you see as a lump sum but you can convert that into an

83
00:04:33,920 –> 00:04:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: income stream and that’s where you we start thinking about how do we use this kind

84
00:04:36,880 –> 00:04:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: of assets to create protected income or income streams that would help people have

85
00:04:40,880 –> 00:04:44,240
[Jason Fitcher]: their most financially secure retirement but those are the three biggest and

86
00:04:44,320 –> 00:04:47,360
[Jason Fitcher]: actually for most people when you think about the lump sum amount like what you

87
00:04:47,060 –> 00:04:48,060
[Jason Fitcher]: actually

88
00:04:47,279 –> 00:04:48,279
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

89
00:04:47,680 –> 00:04:51,760
[Jason Fitcher]: can convert to cash today it usually is the house that’s bigger than the four one

90
00:04:51,920 –> 00:04:56,160
[Jason Fitcher]: k plan for most people that is their primary asset going into retirement so how

91
00:04:56,320 –> 00:04:59,360
[Jason Fitcher]: they utilize that asset when they do with that is very very important for

92
00:04:59,680 –> 00:05:00,880
[Jason Fitcher]: financial security and retirement

93
00:05:02,379 –> 00:05:07,259
[Paul Tyler]: yeah now i f i probably fall on the extreme when it comes to homes and it’s

94
00:05:07,339 –> 00:05:12,859
[Paul Tyler]: interesting what shapes your perspective of ris jason your smack on i i don’t

95
00:05:12,859 –> 00:05:16,939
[Paul Tyler]: think we talked about this like my mother’s a small business person and i would

96
00:05:17,019 –> 00:05:18,539
[Paul Tyler]: say she never should have been

97
00:05:19,399 –> 00:05:20,399
[Paul Tyler]: it was

98
00:05:21,339 –> 00:05:25,819
[Paul Tyler]: and we we frankly grown up had it was it was rough you know we had a couple times

99
00:05:25,819 –> 00:05:30,379
[Paul Tyler]: when our house was close to being repossessed because she got too far over skis

100
00:05:30,279 –> 00:05:31,279
[Paul Tyler]: with work

101
00:05:32,219 –> 00:05:36,699
[Paul Tyler]: and mortgages so there’s nothing coming home to see like auction notices on your

102
00:05:36,859 –> 00:05:43,019
[Paul Tyler]: door to say okay this will never happen and so you know i i i’m somebody who opted

103
00:05:43,099 –> 00:05:45,179
[Paul Tyler]: for the smaller house was paid off

104
00:05:46,097 –> 00:05:47,097
[Ramsey Smith]: no

105
00:05:47,339 –> 00:05:50,459
[Paul Tyler]: i’ve always adjacent had friends and rams you’re probably in the other you know

106
00:05:51,019 –> 00:05:57,179
[Paul Tyler]: probably from more from a a more risk uh have a better view of the risk but jason

107
00:05:57,179 –> 00:05:59,499
[Paul Tyler]: i had friends saying you’ve got to be kidding me you know in the real estate

108
00:05:59,499 –> 00:06:03,979
[Paul Tyler]: market unlv property is an asset that’s just going to waste

109
00:06:06,139 –> 00:06:07,499
[Paul Tyler]: how do you how do you think about risk

110
00:06:08,539 –> 00:06:12,219
[Paul Tyler]: like especially you’re they’re in going getting closer retirement

111
00:06:12,400 –> 00:06:17,680
[Jason Fitcher]: so this is i always found the buying a house the process so much backwards than

112
00:06:17,760 –> 00:06:22,080
[Jason Fitcher]: say buying a car so if if you were to go buy a car and if buying a car today’s

113
00:06:22,160 –> 00:06:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: environment is a lot harder because of supply chain issues so the prices are

114
00:06:24,800 –> 00:06:29,680
[Jason Fitcher]: higher but usually you went to buy a car the salesman ask you paul ramsey how much

115
00:06:29,840 –> 00:06:33,440
[Jason Fitcher]: do you want to pay a month for your car what would the best answer be

116
00:06:35,677 –> 00:06:37,517
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know six hundred dollars a month

117
00:06:37,600 –> 00:06:39,680
[Jason Fitcher]: well i’d like to say zero right i’d like to

118
00:06:39,760 –> 00:06:41,360
[Jason Fitcher]: pay zero but that’s not the option

119
00:06:39,777 –> 00:06:40,777
[Ramsey Smith]: okay well

120
00:06:41,297 –> 00:06:42,297
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

121
00:06:42,240 –> 00:06:45,200
[Jason Fitcher]: right so you say zero but then you know but some people say well i pay four

122
00:06:45,360 –> 00:06:49,840
[Jason Fitcher]: hundred dollars so the dealer finds a way to fit you into the most expensive car

123
00:06:50,320 –> 00:06:53,840
[Jason Fitcher]: for four hundred dollars by doing what when they could extend the terms of a loan

124
00:06:53,777 –> 00:06:54,777
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

125
00:06:54,220 –> 00:06:55,220
[Jason Fitcher]: so one of

126
00:06:54,719 –> 00:06:55,719
[Paul Tyler]: what

127
00:06:55,120 –> 00:06:59,120
[Jason Fitcher]: the even though we’re talking about housing debt think about card debt so my

128
00:06:59,280 –> 00:07:03,440
[Jason Fitcher]: grandparents always paid cash for their car then you started getting loans out so

129
00:07:03,520 –> 00:07:08,800
[Jason Fitcher]: the average term for a loan used to be three years then four then five now it’s

130
00:07:08,660 –> 00:07:09,660
[Jason Fitcher]: seven years

131
00:07:09,519 –> 00:07:10,519
[Paul Tyler]: seven

132
00:07:09,820 –> 00:07:10,820
[Jason Fitcher]: so people

133
00:07:10,537 –> 00:07:11,537
[Ramsey Smith]: for a car really

134
00:07:10,640 –> 00:07:12,800
[Jason Fitcher]: are taking out for a car so now

135
00:07:12,537 –> 00:07:13,537
[Ramsey Smith]: wow

136
00:07:13,040 –> 00:07:16,560
[Jason Fitcher]: people are taking our seven year mortgages for a car and some people don’t own the

137
00:07:16,560 –> 00:07:20,640
[Jason Fitcher]: car longs when they go to get a new car they’re actually under water they owe more

138
00:07:20,720 –> 00:07:24,240
[Jason Fitcher]: than the resale residual value of the car is and the deal’s like don’t worry you

139
00:07:24,240 –> 00:07:27,280
[Jason Fitcher]: want to pay five hundred dollars a month we’ll just roll that balance into the

140
00:07:27,360 –> 00:07:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: next slow so they keep getting further and further under water with debt by

141
00:07:31,360 –> 00:07:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: getting new cars so the house sort of works

142
00:07:33,617 –> 00:07:34,617
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

143
00:07:33,920 –> 00:07:37,200
[Jason Fitcher]: in the same way but backwards we go in and people say look mortgage rates are

144
00:07:37,200 –> 00:07:42,000
[Jason Fitcher]: lower because the rates are lower now you can afford to buy more house so let’s

145
00:07:42,080 –> 00:07:45,600
[Jason Fitcher]: get a more expensive house a bigger house because the rates are down we can keep

146
00:07:45,140 –> 00:07:46,140
[Jason Fitcher]: your

147
00:07:45,337 –> 00:07:46,337
[Ramsey Smith]: aw

148
00:07:45,760 –> 00:07:49,840
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage payment slower you’re like this is a fantastic deal or out doo it so now

149
00:07:49,920 –> 00:07:53,760
[Jason Fitcher]: people have been buying bigger houses more expensive houses with lower rates as

150
00:07:53,920 –> 00:07:57,120
[Jason Fitcher]: rates go up better of course changes housing becomes more expensive than might the

151
00:07:57,200 –> 00:07:59,040
[Jason Fitcher]: downsize but we’ve created a generation

152
00:07:59,017 –> 00:08:00,017
[Ramsey Smith]: generation

153
00:07:59,120 –> 00:08:03,120
[Jason Fitcher]: of people who are used through lower interest rates and buying bigger houses are

154
00:08:03,520 –> 00:08:05,200
[Jason Fitcher]: they gonna be under water are they gonna pay them

155
00:08:05,057 –> 00:08:06,057
[Ramsey Smith]: harder

156
00:08:05,280 –> 00:08:07,040
[Jason Fitcher]: off they gonna keep using revolving credit

157
00:08:08,080 –> 00:08:11,680
[Jason Fitcher]: this is the problem with risk and again we might be more comfortable with debt now

158
00:08:11,760 –> 00:08:15,840
[Jason Fitcher]: we we take out debt for a lot of things and i now see online when i go

159
00:08:15,577 –> 00:08:16,577
[Ramsey Smith]: so that

160
00:08:15,920 –> 00:08:19,920
[Jason Fitcher]: to amazon it says do you want to pay this in four quarterly installments and i’m

161
00:08:20,000 –> 00:08:24,640
[Jason Fitcher]: like no i don’ i i but i still put it on a credit card and it’s it’s a much

162
00:08:24,800 –> 00:08:28,240
[Jason Fitcher]: different psychological thing if you have to go and pay cash out of your wallet

163
00:08:28,400 –> 00:08:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: with everything you buy than just putting it on plastic or clicking your apple

164
00:08:32,320 –> 00:08:35,120
[Jason Fitcher]: watch or using an auto paes through a credit

165
00:08:35,057 –> 00:08:36,057
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s right

166
00:08:35,360 –> 00:08:38,240
[Jason Fitcher]: card where then you get a month they’re like wait how much should i spend how did

167
00:08:38,240 –> 00:08:41,920
[Jason Fitcher]: i do this so this is where we’ve gotten used to credit we’ve gotten used to

168
00:08:42,160 –> 00:08:47,200
[Jason Fitcher]: spending we’ve gotten used to low interest rates and we’ve carried that retirement

169
00:08:47,440 –> 00:08:50,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so when i did some research looking at what was called the health retirement

170
00:08:50,400 –> 00:08:54,080
[Jason Fitcher]: survey health return study through the university of michigan they look at those

171
00:08:54,160 –> 00:08:57,840
[Jason Fitcher]: who are fifty and older with each successive generations they track people so we

172
00:08:58,000 –> 00:09:01,280
[Jason Fitcher]: can look at the you know the world war ii generation we can go up to the baby

173
00:09:01,360 –> 00:09:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: boomers with each generation they’re taking a higher level of debt into retirement

174
00:09:06,720 –> 00:09:11,040
[Jason Fitcher]: and less of them are paying off their houses going into retirement it used to be

175
00:09:11,120 –> 00:09:14,320
[Jason Fitcher]: you were told you know you when you basically retire pay off your house because

176
00:09:14,400 –> 00:09:17,520
[Jason Fitcher]: one as you said paul that’s sort of your biggest if not the biggest asset

177
00:09:17,680 –> 00:09:21,760
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement but two think about your current budget constraints so everyone who is

178
00:09:21,920 –> 00:09:25,840
[Jason Fitcher]: listening on this call right now think about your expenses what are you paying out

179
00:09:25,920 –> 00:09:27,200
[Jason Fitcher]: a month for food

180
00:09:27,719 –> 00:09:28,719
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see

181
00:09:28,160 –> 00:09:31,920
[Jason Fitcher]: for utilities for your cell phone for your cable my guess

182
00:09:31,599 –> 00:09:32,599
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

183
00:09:32,560 –> 00:09:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: is that the largest expense people have or at least most people is mortgage or

184
00:09:36,880 –> 00:09:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: their rent housing is the biggest expense what if that expense was gone in

185
00:09:41,360 –> 00:09:46,000
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement that frees up a lot of extra income source income whether it’s coming

186
00:09:46,080 –> 00:09:49,600
[Jason Fitcher]: from social security or from annuity or from your investments to use someplace

187
00:09:49,760 –> 00:09:52,080
[Jason Fitcher]: else you minimize risk if you carry

188
00:09:51,777 –> 00:09:52,777
[Ramsey Smith]: hear

189
00:09:52,160 –> 00:09:55,280
[Jason Fitcher]: that mortgage with you into retirement you’ve got to pay it and if you get

190
00:09:55,337 –> 00:09:56,337
[Ramsey Smith]: get down the

191
00:09:55,360 –> 00:09:58,400
[Jason Fitcher]: a downturn in the market or there is a hell shock or you get a shock in your

192
00:09:58,177 –> 00:09:59,177
[Ramsey Smith]: years ago

193
00:09:58,560 –> 00:10:02,720
[Jason Fitcher]: income do you want to get kicked out of your house we’re seeing more bankruptcies

194
00:10:02,720 –> 00:10:06,480
[Jason Fitcher]: in retirement because of housing than we have previously this is where we need to

195
00:10:06,560 –> 00:10:08,480
[Jason Fitcher]: start thinking about reframing our discussion

196
00:10:08,399 –> 00:10:09,399
[Paul Tyler]: excuse me

197
00:10:08,720 –> 00:10:12,960
[Jason Fitcher]: around risk mitigation retirement and not necessarily trying to have the biggest

198
00:10:13,040 –> 00:10:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: and greatest yield you can get off your assets

199
00:10:16,477 –> 00:10:21,997
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah that makes a lot of sense i mean it it is it is it’s remarkable and

200
00:10:16,539 –> 00:10:17,739
[Paul Tyler]: yeah that makes a lot of stuff

201
00:10:21,839 –> 00:10:22,839
[Paul Tyler]: father had

202
00:10:22,157 –> 00:10:25,277
[Ramsey Smith]: problematic that decisions are made based on

203
00:10:25,919 –> 00:10:26,919
[Paul Tyler]: how about you

204
00:10:26,157 –> 00:10:30,717
[Ramsey Smith]: how much i can fund how much the how much the bank at any given point in time will

205
00:10:30,797 –> 00:10:35,197
[Ramsey Smith]: let you fund as opposed to what your utility is now if your

206
00:10:35,039 –> 00:10:36,039
[Paul Tyler]: no

207
00:10:35,357 –> 00:10:39,357
[Ramsey Smith]: utility happens to be you know in the same place and then

208
00:10:39,119 –> 00:10:40,119
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

209
00:10:39,517 –> 00:10:44,557
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe maybe there’s some other sort of reward for for buying the bigger house but

210
00:10:39,517 –> 00:10:44,557
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe maybe there’s some other sort of reward for for buying the bigger house but

211
00:10:44,337 –> 00:10:45,337
[Ramsey Smith]: you know

212
00:10:44,337 –> 00:10:45,337
[Ramsey Smith]: you know

213
00:10:46,077 –> 00:10:48,797
[Ramsey Smith]: in my mind right you’re taking on a lot

214
00:10:48,479 –> 00:10:49,479
[Paul Tyler]: that

215
00:10:48,877 –> 00:10:52,157
[Ramsey Smith]: of ex for risk without any true incremental utility

216
00:10:53,277 –> 00:10:57,117
[Ramsey Smith]: and i think that people could put themselves could avoid

217
00:10:56,759 –> 00:10:57,759
[Paul Tyler]: a lot

218
00:10:57,197 –> 00:11:01,277
[Ramsey Smith]: a lot of issues if if they if they thought about it they thought about it that way

219
00:11:01,437 –> 00:11:04,957
[Ramsey Smith]: because then they’re forced to downsize later and it might not be in a good market

220
00:11:05,377 –> 00:11:06,377
[Ramsey Smith]: so

221
00:11:05,799 –> 00:11:06,799
[Paul Tyler]: well i

222
00:11:06,477 –> 00:11:09,597
[Ramsey Smith]: i think this is a very good discussion for for precisely those reasons

223
00:11:09,339 –> 00:11:11,259
[Paul Tyler]: yeah no jason the calculation

224
00:11:11,940 –> 00:11:12,940
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

225
00:11:12,619 –> 00:11:14,059
[Paul Tyler]: has shifted three if

226
00:11:14,317 –> 00:11:16,557
[Ramsey Smith]: um i studies at is rural

227
00:11:14,379 –> 00:11:17,819
[Paul Tyler]: let me put the step back if i were you know sixty six

228
00:11:18,059 –> 00:11:20,459
[Paul Tyler]: sixty seven owned a house with a mortgage

229
00:11:18,177 –> 00:11:19,177
[Ramsey Smith]: what is

230
00:11:21,819 –> 00:11:26,059
[Paul Tyler]: the calculus has changed so so dramatically over the last two years pre pandemic

231
00:11:26,539 –> 00:11:29,979
[Paul Tyler]: you know a lot of suburbs real estate market was down you probably had lost equity

232
00:11:29,759 –> 00:11:30,759
[Paul Tyler]: in your house

233
00:11:31,537 –> 00:11:32,537
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s w

234
00:11:31,739 –> 00:11:37,259
[Paul Tyler]: okay but the rates were low so you could afford to sit there and pandemic hits a

235
00:11:36,879 –> 00:11:37,879
[Paul Tyler]: lot of

236
00:11:37,420 –> 00:11:38,420
[Jason Fitcher]: what’s that

237
00:11:37,579 –> 00:11:41,579
[Paul Tyler]: suburban areas real estate goes way up okay it also means your equity is higher

238
00:11:37,579 –> 00:11:41,579
[Paul Tyler]: suburban areas real estate goes way up okay it also means your equity is higher

239
00:11:43,339 –> 00:11:45,019
[Paul Tyler]: maybe you can sell your house where you go

240
00:11:46,299 –> 00:11:50,619
[Paul Tyler]: now i don’t know like we just we we were talking before the show this last month

241
00:11:50,719 –> 00:11:51,719
[Paul Tyler]: wow interest

242
00:11:51,297 –> 00:11:52,297
[Ramsey Smith]: why

243
00:11:51,739 –> 00:11:55,259
[Paul Tyler]: rates are starting to spike again stock market

244
00:11:55,017 –> 00:11:56,017
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah that’s

245
00:11:55,579 –> 00:11:58,699
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t i wouldn’t want wanna to have sold my house and but i put it in the market

246
00:11:58,939 –> 00:12:01,259
[Paul Tyler]: last month not good how do you

247
00:11:59,517 –> 00:12:02,317
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah the last um r is

248
00:12:02,699 –> 00:12:05,579
[Paul Tyler]: how do you dynamically approach something like this

249
00:12:05,117 –> 00:12:06,317
[Ramsey Smith]: per person what

250
00:12:05,920 –> 00:12:09,200
[Jason Fitcher]: i well you you’ve bought out some great points paul and i think maybe the word

251
00:12:09,360 –> 00:12:13,120
[Jason Fitcher]: dynamic is something to focus on any dynamic and risk or two words we need to have

252
00:12:13,520 –> 00:12:18,800
[Jason Fitcher]: as our framing here because there are many people who again go into retirement

253
00:12:19,040 –> 00:12:22,800
[Jason Fitcher]: without paying off their house and think i’ve got income coming in from a variety

254
00:12:22,800 –> 00:12:25,120
[Jason Fitcher]: of sources including the market if the market

255
00:12:24,879 –> 00:12:25,879
[Paul Tyler]: what

256
00:12:25,360 –> 00:12:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: this is where i think we talked about this last time too whether you should have

257
00:12:28,320 –> 00:12:31,520
[Jason Fitcher]: the three percentage rule the four percent drawdown rule that

258
00:12:31,577 –> 00:12:32,577
[Ramsey Smith]: that work

259
00:12:31,680 –> 00:12:36,640
[Jason Fitcher]: rule can work if you have an ever increasing market right the market keeps going

260
00:12:36,720 –> 00:12:39,920
[Jason Fitcher]: up ten percent a year and you’re taking out three or four it probably works for

261
00:12:40,080 –> 00:12:44,560
[Jason Fitcher]: you that only works if you don’t have a recession in the first two or three or

262
00:12:44,640 –> 00:12:47,600
[Jason Fitcher]: five years’ retirement and you don’t have it till the end it’s the sequence of

263
00:12:47,680 –> 00:12:51,520
[Jason Fitcher]: return risk we’re talking about the same goes for housing if people haven’t paid

264
00:12:51,520 –> 00:12:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: off their housing or they’ve done something even worse like you know you’ve heard

265
00:12:54,240 –> 00:12:57,120
[Jason Fitcher]: the old jo of people taking out a whole meck line of credit when they retired to

266
00:12:56,900 –> 00:12:57,900
[Jason Fitcher]: buy a boat so

267
00:12:57,457 –> 00:12:58,457
[Ramsey Smith]: oh

268
00:12:57,500 –> 00:12:58,500
[Jason Fitcher]: now they

269
00:12:57,839 –> 00:12:58,839
[Paul Tyler]: i did

270
00:12:58,160 –> 00:12:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: not pit off their boat they’re pay off their house

271
00:12:59,519 –> 00:13:00,519
[Paul Tyler]: i

272
00:12:59,920 –> 00:13:03,360
[Jason Fitcher]: they have a boat they’ve got to pay for and and the old joke is you know how do

273
00:13:03,360 –> 00:13:06,720
[Jason Fitcher]: you become a millionaire first you get a billion dollars and you buy a boat and

274
00:13:06,660 –> 00:13:07,660
[Jason Fitcher]: thats how

275
00:13:06,977 –> 00:13:07,977
[Ramsey Smith]: right

276
00:13:07,260 –> 00:13:08,260
[Jason Fitcher]: you become a millionaire

277
00:13:10,080 –> 00:13:14,240
[Jason Fitcher]: people take on this extra level of debt and debt i think we should really call

278
00:13:14,480 –> 00:13:18,480
[Jason Fitcher]: debt risk right and it really is risk can you are you at risk of not being paid

279
00:13:18,800 –> 00:13:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: have an asset collected a secure asset someone can come after maybe you’re okay

280
00:13:22,640 –> 00:13:25,600
[Jason Fitcher]: with someone possessing your car your boat but your house

281
00:13:26,720 –> 00:13:28,640
[Jason Fitcher]: you live in it you need housing and in retirement

282
00:13:28,737 –> 00:13:29,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yes

283
00:13:29,200 –> 00:13:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: and i think the dynamic nature is what i would like for us to start having is

284
00:13:33,440 –> 00:13:37,920
[Jason Fitcher]: these kitchen table conversations you never know she made the right decision until

285
00:13:38,160 –> 00:13:41,440
[Jason Fitcher]: that decision has passed have hindsight right hindsight is twenty twenty is the

286
00:13:41,440 –> 00:13:44,080
[Jason Fitcher]: market going to go up is the market going to go down boy i

287
00:13:43,679 –> 00:13:44,679
[Paul Tyler]: what

288
00:13:44,080 –> 00:13:47,200
[Jason Fitcher]: wish i would have done this you know if i had tried bought apple stock when it was

289
00:13:47,280 –> 00:13:51,040
[Jason Fitcher]: going to eight dollars back when i you know twenty thirty years ago i’d be a

290
00:13:51,040 –> 00:13:54,080
[Jason Fitcher]: millionaire a billionaire but you know i didn’t so i missed out

291
00:13:55,200 –> 00:13:58,400
[Jason Fitcher]: what do we do when it comes to these discussions about dynamic nature of housing

292
00:13:58,480 –> 00:14:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: and risk and i think what i think people should think about is the house is an

293
00:14:02,000 –> 00:14:06,560
[Jason Fitcher]: asset if it’s paid off and you go into retirement you have minimized risk and you

294
00:14:06,640 –> 00:14:09,760
[Jason Fitcher]: have expanded your flexibility so for many people

295
00:14:10,420 –> 00:14:11,420
[Jason Fitcher]: if

296
00:14:10,657 –> 00:14:11,657
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

297
00:14:11,040 –> 00:14:13,600
[Jason Fitcher]: your house is paid off you could use that home equity

298
00:14:13,760 –> 00:14:18,080
[Jason Fitcher]: down the road for long term care long term care insurance if you can find it now

299
00:14:13,837 –> 00:14:15,917
[Ramsey Smith]: we just don’t need that we here

300
00:14:18,160 –> 00:14:20,240
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s really really expensive

301
00:14:21,520 –> 00:14:26,720
[Jason Fitcher]: think about long term care as your housing in your really really senior years if

302
00:14:26,800 –> 00:14:29,920
[Jason Fitcher]: your house is paid off and you have to go into long term care you could sell your

303
00:14:29,920 –> 00:14:33,200
[Jason Fitcher]: house or you saw home equity or reverse mortgage to pay your long term care and

304
00:14:33,280 –> 00:14:37,120
[Jason Fitcher]: not leave that bill on your on your kids or your grandkids or you know hopefully

305
00:14:37,120 –> 00:14:41,360
[Jason Fitcher]: you’re not going to go on medicaid if you’re indigent to go into long term care

306
00:14:42,400 –> 00:14:46,000
[Jason Fitcher]: thinking about planning for this and the dynamic nature of what retirement means

307
00:14:46,000 –> 00:14:49,600
[Jason Fitcher]: and what the markets can do helps people think about how do you better use their

308
00:14:49,680 –> 00:14:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: assets and i mean my fear is too often we’ve trained people to think about acid

309
00:14:54,800 –> 00:14:59,280
[Jason Fitcher]: accumulation in their years of working we haven’t talked about the either

310
00:14:59,600 –> 00:15:03,360
[Jason Fitcher]: distribution or accumulation phase and retirement and what that means for risk

311
00:15:03,520 –> 00:15:07,200
[Jason Fitcher]: mitigation and how to make sure people don’t outlive their savings they’re not

312
00:15:07,280 –> 00:15:10,960
[Jason Fitcher]: afraid to spend what they have and can actually have a financially comfortable

313
00:15:11,040 –> 00:15:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: secure retirement that they’re enjoying that they enjoy their golden years you

314
00:15:14,560 –> 00:15:18,400
[Jason Fitcher]: know you want to be as worry free as possible if you’ve got that mortgage sitting

315
00:15:18,400 –> 00:15:21,920
[Jason Fitcher]: of your head you know in turbulent times like right now you know with how long

316
00:15:22,080 –> 00:15:25,360
[Jason Fitcher]: does this russian ukraine g were going to last is it gonna end tomorrow is it

317
00:15:25,440 –> 00:15:29,120
[Jason Fitcher]: going to end in three years whatever end what does that mean for oil prices that

318
00:15:29,120 –> 00:15:31,920
[Jason Fitcher]: go to one hundred thirty dollars a barrel one day and then down to below one

319
00:15:31,820 –> 00:15:32,820
[Jason Fitcher]: hundred the next mortgage

320
00:15:33,039 –> 00:15:34,039
[Paul Tyler]: just

321
00:15:33,120 –> 00:15:37,120
[Jason Fitcher]: rates again they’re now creeping upwards above four and five percent going towards

322
00:15:37,280 –> 00:15:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: five the federal reserve is going to start raising interest rates to start trying

323
00:15:40,960 –> 00:15:44,720
[Jason Fitcher]: to tamper down on inflation if you need to sell your house and you haven’t put off

324
00:15:44,800 –> 00:15:47,280
[Jason Fitcher]: your mortgage are you going to be under water did you take out a home lot of

325
00:15:47,360 –> 00:15:51,120
[Jason Fitcher]: credit so you are under water now these are all really important factors to

326
00:15:51,280 –> 00:15:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: consider when talking about the dynamic na paul but i think you’re right we need

327
00:15:54,720 –> 00:15:57,840
[Jason Fitcher]: to start talking about what this means for risk and when people say oh don’t

328
00:15:57,777 –> 00:15:58,777
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t

329
00:15:57,920 –> 00:16:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: pay off your house because you can use that money to go to the market

330
00:16:01,520 –> 00:16:04,800
[Jason Fitcher]: well you can lose money in the market you really don’t wanna lose your home

331
00:16:06,257 –> 00:16:07,257
[Ramsey Smith]: so

332
00:16:06,939 –> 00:16:08,139
[Paul Tyler]: i she got couple

333
00:16:06,957 –> 00:16:11,197
[Ramsey Smith]: let me ask you this so there’s this is a this is a decision that’s that’s

334
00:16:10,959 –> 00:16:11,959
[Paul Tyler]: i

335
00:16:11,297 –> 00:16:12,297
[Ramsey Smith]: obviously very difficult

336
00:16:12,239 –> 00:16:13,239
[Paul Tyler]: christmas

337
00:16:12,637 –> 00:16:17,117
[Ramsey Smith]: for for consumers to make often they are going to financial advisors is your

338
00:16:17,079 –> 00:16:18,079
[Paul Tyler]: that’s pretty good

339
00:16:17,357 –> 00:16:20,797
[Ramsey Smith]: experience that the financial advisors or the financial advice community

340
00:16:22,157 –> 00:16:26,557
[Ramsey Smith]: is is is answering this question the way you think they ought to

341
00:16:27,380 –> 00:16:28,380
[Jason Fitcher]: i

342
00:16:29,280 –> 00:16:30,480
[Jason Fitcher]: would put it differently it’s not

343
00:16:30,199 –> 00:16:31,199
[Paul Tyler]: i would

344
00:16:30,260 –> 00:16:31,260
[Jason Fitcher]: whether they’re

345
00:16:31,020 –> 00:16:32,020
[Jason Fitcher]: answering it properly it’s

346
00:16:31,037 –> 00:16:32,237
[Ramsey Smith]: ja mm

347
00:16:31,599 –> 00:16:32,599
[Paul Tyler]: school

348
00:16:32,000 –> 00:16:33,680
[Jason Fitcher]: whether they’re having the right discussion and i think

349
00:16:33,297 –> 00:16:34,297
[Ramsey Smith]: okay

350
00:16:33,760 –> 00:16:37,440
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s what’s missing right so the answer shouldn’t be yes you should sell no you

351
00:16:37,520 –> 00:16:41,040
[Jason Fitcher]: shouldn’t sell you should you know pay off your mortgage no you shouldn’t it

352
00:16:41,200 –> 00:16:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: really should be a discussion with the individuals about what are their risks what

353
00:16:45,440 –> 00:16:48,720
[Jason Fitcher]: other income do they have what other assets do they have what are their goals do

354
00:16:48,420 –> 00:16:49,420
[Jason Fitcher]: they have

355
00:16:48,737 –> 00:16:49,737
[Ramsey Smith]: they have

356
00:16:49,120 –> 00:16:50,720
[Jason Fitcher]: a spouse are they sick right there’s

357
00:16:50,399 –> 00:16:51,399
[Paul Tyler]: water

358
00:16:50,800 –> 00:16:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: a lot of things that go into this conversation it’s the same sort of factors we

359
00:16:54,320 –> 00:16:56,480
[Jason Fitcher]: talked about when it was thinking about when do you claim social security

360
00:16:56,800 –> 00:17:01,680
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement benefits it’s a personal decision one science is not fit all the fear i

361
00:17:01,840 –> 00:17:06,160
[Jason Fitcher]: have is that somebody goes into financial professional and says what do i do and

362
00:17:06,160 –> 00:17:08,000
[Jason Fitcher]: they just give a quick answer without having the

363
00:17:08,080 –> 00:17:10,800
[Jason Fitcher]: discussion about what their needs are what their risks are and how they can

364
00:17:08,317 –> 00:17:09,917
[Ramsey Smith]: i would say a kid

365
00:17:10,880 –> 00:17:14,240
[Jason Fitcher]: minimize risk and there’s a difference between saying selling

366
00:17:13,857 –> 00:17:14,857
[Ramsey Smith]: what

367
00:17:14,240 –> 00:17:19,280
[Jason Fitcher]: an asset like selling a stock asset to pay off a house versus taking out a reverse

368
00:17:19,180 –> 00:17:20,180
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage or another

369
00:17:20,160 –> 00:17:24,160
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage i mean the number of people i’ve seen who in the research get into their

370
00:17:20,477 –> 00:17:21,917
[Ramsey Smith]: have the testimony i’m going

371
00:17:24,320 –> 00:17:29,040
[Jason Fitcher]: late fifty seconds and then refinance for another thirty year mortgage is really

372
00:17:29,200 –> 00:17:32,160
[Jason Fitcher]: surprising to me the idea that you could be paying off a mortgage until your

373
00:17:32,240 –> 00:17:36,400
[Jason Fitcher]: seventies or eighties it is just surprise not how i grew up that’s not how that

374
00:17:36,400 –> 00:17:40,080
[Jason Fitcher]: framing i was brought up with and some people like maybe we’re comfortable just

375
00:17:39,740 –> 00:17:40,740
[Jason Fitcher]: live in the

376
00:17:40,097 –> 00:17:41,097
[Ramsey Smith]: i

377
00:17:40,480 –> 00:17:43,920
[Jason Fitcher]: house if we died then someone comes and takes the houses where dead who cares

378
00:17:43,919 –> 00:17:44,919
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

379
00:17:44,320 –> 00:17:47,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that may be a smart decision for somebody who understands that and has other

380
00:17:47,840 –> 00:17:50,800
[Jason Fitcher]: assets and make sure that they have income coming in so there’s a market

381
00:17:50,399 –> 00:17:51,399
[Paul Tyler]: s

382
00:17:50,417 –> 00:17:51,417
[Ramsey Smith]: what

383
00:17:50,960 –> 00:17:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: downturn they’re protecting they’re always paying their mortgage for somebody else

384
00:17:54,400 –> 00:17:55,600
[Jason Fitcher]: it might not be the right decision

385
00:17:55,239 –> 00:17:56,239
[Paul Tyler]: hm

386
00:17:55,920 –> 00:17:59,440
[Jason Fitcher]: and they might talk about how they can use their financial assets besides the

387
00:17:59,520 –> 00:18:02,880
[Jason Fitcher]: house to have a protective stream of income that also then pays off the house so

388
00:18:02,880 –> 00:18:06,720
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s off their balance sheet in retirement and becomes a pure asset that they

389
00:18:06,800 –> 00:18:10,000
[Jason Fitcher]: have flexibility with so it’s a discussion that i want to encourage not

390
00:18:10,000 –> 00:18:12,640
[Jason Fitcher]: necessarily focusing on what is the right or wrong answer because that really does

391
00:18:12,800 –> 00:18:14,480
[Jason Fitcher]: depend on the individual circumstances

392
00:18:14,337 –> 00:18:15,337
[Ramsey Smith]: so

393
00:18:14,879 –> 00:18:15,879
[Paul Tyler]: you been

394
00:18:15,037 –> 00:18:19,117
[Ramsey Smith]: you’ve mentioned reverse mortgages a few times and we don’t necessarily have a dog

395
00:18:19,197 –> 00:18:20,557
[Ramsey Smith]: in that fight on the show but it’s

396
00:18:21,997 –> 00:18:25,997
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s come up we’ve had um we’ve had don graves on here recently and we’ve had

397
00:18:26,077 –> 00:18:31,357
[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve had way at wed fowl also on a couple of times and both of them speak a lot

398
00:18:31,517 –> 00:18:33,357
[Ramsey Smith]: about the rule of reverse mortgages

399
00:18:35,037 –> 00:18:37,677
[Ramsey Smith]: you how do you feel about them there’s there’s two

400
00:18:37,359 –> 00:18:38,359
[Paul Tyler]: what

401
00:18:37,757 –> 00:18:42,397
[Ramsey Smith]: questions one is the function of them and the other is how they’re priced so i

402
00:18:42,477 –> 00:18:43,517
[Ramsey Smith]: will you know i guess

403
00:18:43,757 –> 00:18:46,397
[Ramsey Smith]: let’s focus on the function first and then we can

404
00:18:43,979 –> 00:18:45,179
[Paul Tyler]: spoke function first

405
00:18:46,180 –> 00:18:47,180
[Jason Fitcher]: okay

406
00:18:46,717 –> 00:18:49,677
[Ramsey Smith]: if you have an opinion on how their price we can talk about that too but as a

407
00:18:49,297 –> 00:18:50,297
[Ramsey Smith]: function

408
00:18:50,877 –> 00:18:52,957
[Ramsey Smith]: as you know for their utility what are your thoughts

409
00:18:53,200 –> 00:18:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so i again

410
00:18:54,079 –> 00:18:55,079
[Paul Tyler]: been white

411
00:18:54,480 –> 00:18:58,720
[Jason Fitcher]: my my hope in this discussion is we can talk about how the house can be used as a

412
00:18:58,800 –> 00:19:00,960
[Jason Fitcher]: financial asset and retirement to mitigate risk

413
00:19:02,000 –> 00:19:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: and then one of i know wait fo talks about the idea of you know the risks you have

414
00:19:05,840 –> 00:19:09,840
[Jason Fitcher]: of sequencing of market timing and how you could use reverse mortgage to basically

415
00:19:10,000 –> 00:19:13,200
[Jason Fitcher]: get some more income later on your retirement years i think that’s an important

416
00:19:13,280 –> 00:19:14,720
[Jason Fitcher]: tool to talk about is the basket

417
00:19:14,657 –> 00:19:15,657
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

418
00:19:14,800 –> 00:19:18,000
[Jason Fitcher]: of options one may have and again this goes back to my earlier thing early

419
00:19:18,240 –> 00:19:19,680
[Jason Fitcher]: discussion i want financial

420
00:19:19,439 –> 00:19:20,439
[Paul Tyler]: what

421
00:19:19,537 –> 00:19:20,537
[Ramsey Smith]: what

422
00:19:19,920 –> 00:19:23,440
[Jason Fitcher]: professionals to be able to talk to their clients about the options

423
00:19:23,177 –> 00:19:24,177
[Ramsey Smith]: oh yeah

424
00:19:23,520 –> 00:19:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that are available what the risks and rewards are the pros and cons and give them

425
00:19:23,520 –> 00:19:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: that are available what the risks and rewards are the pros and cons and give them

426
00:19:27,840 –> 00:19:31,280
[Jason Fitcher]: a menu and walk them through it right no pressure just talk about your options

427
00:19:27,840 –> 00:19:31,280
[Jason Fitcher]: a menu and walk them through it right no pressure just talk about your options

428
00:19:31,360 –> 00:19:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s what they are

429
00:19:31,360 –> 00:19:32,640
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s what they are

430
00:19:33,579 –> 00:19:34,619
[Paul Tyler]: oh i think

431
00:19:33,700 –> 00:19:34,700
[Jason Fitcher]: i think

432
00:19:34,137 –> 00:19:35,137
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

433
00:19:34,400 –> 00:19:37,440
[Jason Fitcher]: a reverse mortgage would be part of that discussion but so could a home equity

434
00:19:37,520 –> 00:19:40,400
[Jason Fitcher]: line of credit right you could do a whole amount of credit as well if you wanted

435
00:19:40,400 –> 00:19:44,080
[Jason Fitcher]: to there are a lot of structures you can do and think about how to tap into the

436
00:19:44,080 –> 00:19:46,480
[Jason Fitcher]: assets of your home equity to help in retirement

437
00:19:46,399 –> 00:19:47,399
[Paul Tyler]: it

438
00:19:46,880 –> 00:19:48,000
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s new at its conversation

439
00:19:48,699 –> 00:19:53,179
[Paul Tyler]: well is it wrong of me to think of taking a reverse mortgage effectively is doing

440
00:19:53,259 –> 00:19:56,379
[Paul Tyler]: what you’re saying i’m paying off your mortgage right because i think tell me if

441
00:19:56,379 –> 00:20:01,819
[Paul Tyler]: i’m wrong if i do a reverse mortgage and i’ve got a mortgage say hundred thousand

442
00:20:02,059 –> 00:20:06,619
[Paul Tyler]: dollars in the house i think that you got to wrap the whole thing up and get rid

443
00:20:06,619 –> 00:20:08,539
[Paul Tyler]: of the mortgage right is that yeah

444
00:20:07,920 –> 00:20:12,320
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah yeah so and this is again how do you use your house retirement the

445
00:20:12,319 –> 00:20:13,319
[Paul Tyler]: yeah yeah

446
00:20:12,400 –> 00:20:16,800
[Jason Fitcher]: asset and again as you said po it’s for most people it is their largest asset in

447
00:20:16,880 –> 00:20:19,680
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement and you know and if someone it again depends

448
00:20:19,617 –> 00:20:20,617
[Ramsey Smith]: definitely

449
00:20:19,920 –> 00:20:23,120
[Jason Fitcher]: on are youre to leave a request you do you have a spouse what’s the role you know

450
00:20:23,440 –> 00:20:27,120
[Jason Fitcher]: if you are a single let’s say you’re a single person you have no kids you have no

451
00:20:27,200 –> 00:20:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: grandkids you’re not trying to leave a request to somebody why do you want to die

452
00:20:30,980 –> 00:20:31,980
[Jason Fitcher]: and leave thistles att

453
00:20:31,920 –> 00:20:39,120
[Jason Fitcher]: if you got a spouse to worry about if you’re worried about want to leave money to

454
00:20:33,199 –> 00:20:34,199
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

455
00:20:39,280 –> 00:20:42,960
[Jason Fitcher]: your kids or your family it’s a different conversation so again it’s it’s it

456
00:20:43,200 –> 00:20:44,320
[Jason Fitcher]: really is amazing how

457
00:20:46,320 –> 00:20:51,200
[Jason Fitcher]: times one of the reasons i love this show is we can talk about money yeah and but

458
00:20:51,440 –> 00:20:54,960
[Jason Fitcher]: but i mean that sincerely do you know how uncomfortable is talking money with

459
00:20:54,860 –> 00:20:55,860
[Jason Fitcher]: people like

460
00:20:55,279 –> 00:20:56,279
[Paul Tyler]: right

461
00:20:55,500 –> 00:20:56,500
[Jason Fitcher]: real people

462
00:20:56,337 –> 00:20:57,337
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

463
00:20:56,640 –> 00:20:59,840
[Jason Fitcher]: they’re they’re they just yeah you know this they get they they get nervous

464
00:21:00,580 –> 00:21:01,580
[Jason Fitcher]: going

465
00:21:00,977 –> 00:21:01,977
[Ramsey Smith]: what

466
00:21:01,360 –> 00:21:05,360
[Jason Fitcher]: back to this idea we can have kitchen table conversations with your family members

467
00:21:05,760 –> 00:21:08,720
[Jason Fitcher]: and this is what becomes important even for like people who aren’t retiring yet

468
00:21:08,720 –> 00:21:11,920
[Jason Fitcher]: but whose parents might be retiring you just sit down with that of discussion

469
00:21:12,160 –> 00:21:16,480
[Jason Fitcher]: about what are their finances what are their worries do they actually no one likes

470
00:21:16,560 –> 00:21:19,840
[Jason Fitcher]: to talk about death but do you have a will do you have you know do you have a

471
00:21:19,920 –> 00:21:23,920
[Jason Fitcher]: power of attorney have you structured all this i’m starting to have friends whose

472
00:21:24,000 –> 00:21:25,840
[Jason Fitcher]: parents are passing away and they’re finding

473
00:21:25,697 –> 00:21:26,697
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

474
00:21:25,920 –> 00:21:30,560
[Jason Fitcher]: that their parents didn’t have the proper legal documents in order to help

475
00:21:30,880 –> 00:21:33,840
[Jason Fitcher]: straighten out their affairs because they were nervous about talking about it or

476
00:21:33,840 –> 00:21:36,560
[Jason Fitcher]: their kids now find out that they didn’t have much money as they thought and

477
00:21:36,640 –> 00:21:39,920
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s debt they’ve got to figure out how to pay off we need to go back to being

478
00:21:40,000 –> 00:21:41,840
[Jason Fitcher]: able to have these kitchen table financial conversations

479
00:21:43,920 –> 00:21:48,160
[Jason Fitcher]: in a responsible way without feeling guilty about it or nervous so we can talk

480
00:21:48,320 –> 00:21:51,760
[Jason Fitcher]: about what actually are our risks our trade offs the pros and cons of various

481
00:21:52,000 –> 00:21:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: things and that’s where a financial planner comes in that’s where family and

482
00:21:54,720 –> 00:21:58,880
[Jason Fitcher]: friends can come in and we can have this again discussion of risk and how to

483
00:21:58,960 –> 00:22:01,120
[Jason Fitcher]: minimize risk especially in retirement

484
00:22:02,059 –> 00:22:06,379
[Paul Tyler]: so so if i think about the problem we’re really trying to help solve right you can

485
00:22:06,539 –> 00:22:11,259
[Paul Tyler]: step back a couple layers and say well it’s really how do you reduce your housing

486
00:22:11,339 –> 00:22:17,179
[Paul Tyler]: expenses in retirement right so big component obviously in a debt’s a hugely

487
00:22:17,339 –> 00:22:20,219
[Paul Tyler]: expensive proposition right there are other expenses

488
00:22:25,899 –> 00:22:27,499
[Paul Tyler]: okay i agree i

489
00:22:27,057 –> 00:22:28,057
[Ramsey Smith]: agree

490
00:22:27,579 –> 00:22:29,099
[Paul Tyler]: ha i wanna get my

491
00:22:30,379 –> 00:22:35,339
[Paul Tyler]: get rid of my mortgage it feels like a kind of high a rare solution where somebody

492
00:22:35,579 –> 00:22:38,539
[Paul Tyler]: could just go in and say hey you know rams i’m going to pull money out of my money

493
00:22:38,699 –> 00:22:42,939
[Paul Tyler]: market and pay off my mortgage right that feels like jason what are the most

494
00:22:42,660 –> 00:22:43,660
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

495
00:22:43,099 –> 00:22:44,619
[Paul Tyler]: likely scenarios here where

496
00:22:45,420 –> 00:22:46,420
[Jason Fitcher]: so he here’s

497
00:22:45,659 –> 00:22:48,219
[Paul Tyler]: i actually do get rid of my eliminate my mortgage

498
00:22:48,480 –> 00:22:51,840
[Jason Fitcher]: here’s how the people should think about one is there’s when you pay off your

499
00:22:51,920 –> 00:22:54,880
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage there’s a couple ways to do it right you just brought the idea of

500
00:22:55,040 –> 00:22:58,080
[Jason Fitcher]: basically taking money from another pot i have a you know buy a

501
00:22:57,839 –> 00:22:58,839
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

502
00:22:58,160 –> 00:23:02,720
[Jason Fitcher]: cash i have a money market i have stocks i have bonds i have a four one can retire

503
00:23:02,720 –> 00:23:07,120
[Jason Fitcher]: and going to sell x to pay off the mortgage y that’s one way and that becomes a

504
00:23:07,200 –> 00:23:10,400
[Jason Fitcher]: decision on one risk management it also becomes in how do you want to allocate

505
00:23:10,480 –> 00:23:15,200
[Jason Fitcher]: your assets think about your house it’s a portfolio right the first rule portfolio

506
00:23:15,280 –> 00:23:17,360
[Jason Fitcher]: diversification is it has to be diversified

507
00:23:18,640 –> 00:23:22,160
[Jason Fitcher]: a house is part of your diversified portfolio so you don’t want to sell all of

508
00:23:22,160 –> 00:23:25,760
[Jason Fitcher]: your stock assets to pay off a house but how do you balance it my

509
00:23:25,439 –> 00:23:26,439
[Paul Tyler]: what

510
00:23:25,920 –> 00:23:28,960
[Jason Fitcher]: thing has always been i’ve always been concerned that people take out these home

511
00:23:29,200 –> 00:23:34,080
[Jason Fitcher]: economic credits or keep refinancing to do cash refinancing to buy something else

512
00:23:34,640 –> 00:23:39,360
[Jason Fitcher]: so they start looking at their houses an atm and a cash machine as opposed to

513
00:23:39,840 –> 00:23:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement asset housing consumption et cetera so my first advice for people when

514
00:23:45,440 –> 00:23:48,240
[Jason Fitcher]: they get a mortgage is just unless rates drop

515
00:23:47,839 –> 00:23:48,839
[Paul Tyler]: water

516
00:23:48,640 –> 00:23:52,240
[Jason Fitcher]: stick with it and if race dropped you when to refinance don’t keep refinancing the

517
00:23:52,320 –> 00:23:55,680
[Jason Fitcher]: thirty years and pushing it out if you had a thirty year can you get a twenty year

518
00:23:55,760 –> 00:23:59,600
[Jason Fitcher]: next time perhaps a fifteen maybe you can do a ten year i

519
00:23:59,279 –> 00:24:00,279
[Paul Tyler]: i

520
00:23:59,680 –> 00:24:04,400
[Jason Fitcher]: ref you know my first house i couldn’t afford to pay cash for my first house i got

521
00:24:04,480 –> 00:24:06,320
[Jason Fitcher]: a thirty year mortgage rates started

522
00:24:05,919 –> 00:24:06,919
[Paul Tyler]: you

523
00:24:06,400 –> 00:24:10,000
[Jason Fitcher]: dropping i refinanced and at some point i was able to refinance to a fifteen year

524
00:24:10,160 –> 00:24:13,440
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage and we were talking before the show and i’m happy to put it on in public

525
00:24:13,600 –> 00:24:17,680
[Jason Fitcher]: i am fifty years old and i’m two years away from paying off my house because i’ve

526
00:24:17,680 –> 00:24:21,520
[Jason Fitcher]: been paying it monthly and got a fifteen year mortgage i am going pay off my house

527
00:24:21,760 –> 00:24:24,640
[Jason Fitcher]: i am not i mean i get letters from you know banks

528
00:24:24,457 –> 00:24:25,457
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

529
00:24:24,720 –> 00:24:28,080
[Jason Fitcher]: saying hey you could be finance the equity you have in your house like yes that is

530
00:24:28,080 –> 00:24:31,120
[Jason Fitcher]: going to be my long term care insurance that is to me what my wife is gonna have

531
00:24:31,120 –> 00:24:35,600
[Jason Fitcher]: when i pass away that is going to be a worry free asset yeah i’ve gotta pay taxes

532
00:24:35,680 –> 00:24:39,440
[Jason Fitcher]: on it yes i’ll have to have maintenance i don’t have to pay rent i have to pay a

533
00:24:39,440 –> 00:24:44,160
[Jason Fitcher]: mortgage and that money that was allocated for housing can now go into other

534
00:24:44,320 –> 00:24:47,920
[Jason Fitcher]: things whether that’s vacation travel whether i want to put that back in the

535
00:24:47,920 –> 00:24:50,640
[Jason Fitcher]: market and reallocate money that what is going to housing and i’ll put

536
00:24:50,319 –> 00:24:51,319
[Paul Tyler]: see

537
00:24:50,720 –> 00:24:55,520
[Jason Fitcher]: it in investments i now have that flexibility but having the house paid off means

538
00:24:55,520 –> 00:25:00,000
[Jason Fitcher]: i can start going into retirement not worrying about housing which again for most

539
00:25:00,080 –> 00:25:03,920
[Jason Fitcher]: people it’s the biggest expense so that’s when we start thinking about housing you

540
00:25:03,920 –> 00:25:08,080
[Jason Fitcher]: know paul it’s not do i sell off all my assets to pay down the house when i retire

541
00:25:07,860 –> 00:25:08,860
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s what

542
00:25:08,239 –> 00:25:09,239
[Paul Tyler]: what

543
00:25:08,640 –> 00:25:13,280
[Jason Fitcher]: have i got is my portfolio and am i overleveraged in one versus the other and

544
00:25:13,440 –> 00:25:17,200
[Jason Fitcher]: don’t look at your house as a cash machine in the sense of using it to buy a boat

545
00:25:17,600 –> 00:25:21,360
[Jason Fitcher]: think about it as how you would take that house to mitigate risk and retirement

546
00:25:21,360 –> 00:25:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: and presumably down the road maybe turn into a stream of income which could be

547
00:25:24,720 –> 00:25:27,760
[Jason Fitcher]: either again i’m not saying i’m buying into reverse mortgages because there’s a

548
00:25:27,760 –> 00:25:31,120
[Jason Fitcher]: lot of ways you could do home equity there’s a lot of things you can do but that

549
00:25:31,200 –> 00:25:34,640
[Jason Fitcher]: house you might decide to sell it maybe you get to the point where the house is

550
00:25:34,720 –> 00:25:39,280
[Jason Fitcher]: too big you bought this big house and the kids are gone the dogs are gone it’s

551
00:25:39,280 –> 00:25:42,400
[Jason Fitcher]: just you or maybe you’re in a spouse in this big house and you want to downsize

552
00:25:43,600 –> 00:25:46,560
[Jason Fitcher]: what do you sell how do you downsize what do you use the additional proceeds for

553
00:25:46,560 –> 00:25:48,960
[Jason Fitcher]: how do you use that to do you buy more protected income

554
00:25:48,737 –> 00:25:49,737
[Ramsey Smith]: she

555
00:25:49,040 –> 00:25:50,560
[Jason Fitcher]: do you reallocate it into the market

556
00:25:51,680 –> 00:25:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s a lot of things you can do and you have a lot more flexibility if the

557
00:25:54,720 –> 00:25:56,320
[Jason Fitcher]: house is paid off or close to it

558
00:25:56,857 –> 00:25:57,857
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

559
00:25:56,919 –> 00:25:57,919
[Paul Tyler]: i think

560
00:25:58,557 –> 00:25:59,677
[Ramsey Smith]: part of the issue here is

561
00:26:00,797 –> 00:26:05,437
[Ramsey Smith]: is is when financial advisor or somebody else is having a conversation

562
00:26:06,557 –> 00:26:08,957
[Ramsey Smith]: with a consumer that’s kind of in that right in

563
00:26:08,500 –> 00:26:09,500
[Jason Fitcher]: i

564
00:26:09,037 –> 00:26:13,037
[Ramsey Smith]: this age range we’re talking about is to sort of express upfront that

565
00:26:14,157 –> 00:26:16,397
[Ramsey Smith]: it is a it is a normal goal

566
00:26:16,500 –> 00:26:17,500
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

567
00:26:17,197 –> 00:26:21,517
[Ramsey Smith]: to go under retirement with a debt free with debt free housing right like that

568
00:26:21,757 –> 00:26:26,557
[Ramsey Smith]: like that is a that is an aspirational first set it up as an aspirational goal so

569
00:26:26,717 –> 00:26:28,317
[Ramsey Smith]: people people see it as a

570
00:26:29,577 –> 00:26:30,577
[Ramsey Smith]: as a target

571
00:26:31,757 –> 00:26:33,117
[Ramsey Smith]: the second part of that i think

572
00:26:33,117 –> 00:26:35,357
[Ramsey Smith]: that that you said that’s very important

573
00:26:33,120 –> 00:26:35,120
[Jason Fitcher]: right um what

574
00:26:36,657 –> 00:26:37,657
[Ramsey Smith]: is

575
00:26:37,200 –> 00:26:39,040
[Jason Fitcher]: it down and the one is

576
00:26:37,277 –> 00:26:41,677
[Ramsey Smith]: ultimately highlighting that it’s an asset and then there are things that you can

577
00:26:41,677 –> 00:26:45,357
[Ramsey Smith]: do to create some liquidity around that asset so it’s the line of credit or the

578
00:26:45,357 –> 00:26:46,637
[Ramsey Smith]: verse mortgage driver you

579
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Jason Fitcher]: uhuh

580
00:26:46,717 –> 00:26:49,117
[Ramsey Smith]: happen to do it but the key thing is that

581
00:26:50,397 –> 00:26:54,077
[Ramsey Smith]: that the liquidity and resources that you draw from your house

582
00:26:55,137 –> 00:26:56,137
[Ramsey Smith]: should be spent

583
00:26:55,700 –> 00:26:56,700
[Jason Fitcher]: watch

584
00:26:56,537 –> 00:26:57,537
[Ramsey Smith]: on things

585
00:26:57,180 –> 00:26:58,180
[Jason Fitcher]: know i said i

586
00:26:57,517 –> 00:27:00,077
[Ramsey Smith]: that are essential as opposed to things that are non essential

587
00:26:59,839 –> 00:27:00,839
[Paul Tyler]: what

588
00:27:00,157 –> 00:27:04,717
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m trying to i’m trying to take everything you said and sort of try to find a way

589
00:27:04,417 –> 00:27:05,417
[Ramsey Smith]: to sort

590
00:27:05,040 –> 00:27:06,640
[Jason Fitcher]: condense it yeah i think that’s great

591
00:27:05,117 –> 00:27:09,517
[Ramsey Smith]: of frame it for people that like you know that you really that that it’s okay to

592
00:27:09,199 –> 00:27:10,199
[Paul Tyler]: ban

593
00:27:09,257 –> 00:27:10,257
[Ramsey Smith]: finance

594
00:27:09,460 –> 00:27:10,460
[Jason Fitcher]: that

595
00:27:10,317 –> 00:27:11,597
[Ramsey Smith]: things but if you’re financing things

596
00:27:11,140 –> 00:27:12,140
[Jason Fitcher]: i

597
00:27:11,597 –> 00:27:15,437
[Ramsey Smith]: that are non essential you’re imparting more risk if you’re financing things that

598
00:27:15,377 –> 00:27:16,377
[Ramsey Smith]: are essential or

599
00:27:16,159 –> 00:27:17,159
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

600
00:27:16,477 –> 00:27:21,357
[Ramsey Smith]: potentially essential then you’re actually reducing risk so you know anyway i’m

601
00:27:21,337 –> 00:27:22,337
[Ramsey Smith]: this has been this

602
00:27:21,700 –> 00:27:22,700
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

603
00:27:22,157 –> 00:27:24,237
[Ramsey Smith]: has been very helpful i’m trying to put a

604
00:27:23,600 –> 00:27:25,280
[Jason Fitcher]: well this is this is also where i

605
00:27:24,977 –> 00:27:25,977
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

606
00:27:25,360 –> 00:27:28,800
[Jason Fitcher]: think for financial professionals to start talking to people about the role of

607
00:27:28,960 –> 00:27:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: income and retirement what does it mean right to basically take the wealth you

608
00:27:32,320 –> 00:27:36,000
[Jason Fitcher]: have and make into a stream of income whether it’s a drawdown strategy or annuity

609
00:27:36,080 –> 00:27:40,880
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s the role of income and we do find with research and also our anecdotal

610
00:27:40,960 –> 00:27:45,360
[Jason Fitcher]: experience talking to again real people is that they fear running out of money and

611
00:27:45,440 –> 00:27:48,320
[Jason Fitcher]: outliving their money so they fear they’re going to be living off cat food they’re

612
00:27:48,320 –> 00:27:51,840
[Jason Fitcher]: gonna spend down their money they don’t spend enough and for some people they

613
00:27:52,000 –> 00:27:55,440
[Jason Fitcher]: actually die with a significant amount of assets that they could have spent but

614
00:27:55,520 –> 00:27:59,120
[Jason Fitcher]: they were just afraid to do so and what we see this is research that david

615
00:27:59,120 –> 00:28:02,800
[Jason Fitcher]: blanchet michael have done and we’ve got some work at the alliance that this call

616
00:28:02,960 –> 00:28:06,560
[Jason Fitcher]: this license to spend right if you have enough income coming in that’s protected

617
00:28:06,640 –> 00:28:11,600
[Jason Fitcher]: it’s like your budget constraints if youer the number is that you know you’re

618
00:28:11,600 –> 00:28:16,560
[Jason Fitcher]: getting monthly it’s guaranteed it’s so security plus maybe annuity maybe it’s a

619
00:28:16,620 –> 00:28:17,620
[Jason Fitcher]: pension but you know you’ve

620
00:28:17,217 –> 00:28:18,217
[Ramsey Smith]: you

621
00:28:17,680 –> 00:28:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: got it you spend up that and you allow other money then you can invest it you can

622
00:28:22,560 –> 00:28:26,000
[Jason Fitcher]: take it say i can go and be more risky in assets now because i know i’ve got this

623
00:28:26,080 –> 00:28:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: printed income that pays for my essentials

624
00:28:30,000 –> 00:28:34,400
[Jason Fitcher]: if that essential includes housing whether it’s rent or mortgage that takes up a

625
00:28:34,480 –> 00:28:38,240
[Jason Fitcher]: significant dollar amount of your flexibility to do other things mitigate risks

626
00:28:38,240 –> 00:28:39,280
[Jason Fitcher]: that maybe your car

627
00:28:39,440 –> 00:28:42,720
[Jason Fitcher]: breaks down maybe you need to buy a new car during covid which is very expensive

628
00:28:39,517 –> 00:28:40,877
[Ramsey Smith]: hardly so s

629
00:28:42,960 –> 00:28:46,800
[Jason Fitcher]: if you have a housing repair get health shock all these things come into play so

630
00:28:46,880 –> 00:28:50,320
[Jason Fitcher]: you really need to think about what that means and then try to mitigate risk and

631
00:28:50,400 –> 00:28:53,200
[Jason Fitcher]: people don’t realize that a lot of these things start happening when you retire

632
00:28:53,440 –> 00:28:57,280
[Jason Fitcher]: again we get older things start breaking down not just you know our bodies start

633
00:28:57,440 –> 00:29:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: going but we’re not as young as we used to be and who

634
00:29:00,097 –> 00:29:01,097
[Ramsey Smith]: good

635
00:29:00,640 –> 00:29:03,520
[Jason Fitcher]: knows it’s going to happen with inflation right you know is inflation going to

636
00:29:03,520 –> 00:29:06,320
[Jason Fitcher]: turn around also and go lower again is it going to continue to go up is it

637
00:29:06,400 –> 00:29:10,320
[Jason Fitcher]: transitory is it permanent how do we mitigate the risk and try to protect

638
00:29:10,640 –> 00:29:14,320
[Jason Fitcher]: ourselves and this is where it comes into big thinking more dynamically and the

639
00:29:14,480 –> 00:29:18,480
[Jason Fitcher]: more you can reduce debt to retirement the better off you’re gonna be

640
00:29:18,619 –> 00:29:24,859
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i i totally agree you got to have somebody you who’s knowledgeable helping

641
00:29:24,939 –> 00:29:30,219
[Paul Tyler]: you through this and and and i’ll just had this great chat we i i kind of read you

642
00:29:30,299 –> 00:29:33,419
[Paul Tyler]: a little bit of this just before the show but had an agent coming on an online

643
00:29:33,519 –> 00:29:34,519
[Paul Tyler]: chat and i

644
00:29:34,140 –> 00:29:35,140
[Jason Fitcher]: mm

645
00:29:34,539 –> 00:29:36,939
[Paul Tyler]: think of the risks okay the planning that’s

646
00:29:36,820 –> 00:29:37,820
[Jason Fitcher]: like

647
00:29:37,019 –> 00:29:40,859
[Paul Tyler]: involved in doing something like this and the amount of risk you’ve got to sort of

648
00:29:42,059 –> 00:29:45,499
[Paul Tyler]: dynamically work through can all you know kind of buil

649
00:29:45,260 –> 00:29:46,260
[Jason Fitcher]: but i

650
00:29:45,579 –> 00:29:51,019
[Paul Tyler]: your head so says and i’ll sanitize this a little bit so we’re not promoting

651
00:29:51,179 –> 00:29:55,419
[Paul Tyler]: products here but i have in laws that just sold their home and considering putting

652
00:29:55,499 –> 00:29:57,499
[Paul Tyler]: their profits into either one of your two

653
00:29:57,659 –> 00:30:03,259
[Paul Tyler]: annuities okay all right so they had this house they clearly sold it and they had

654
00:29:57,940 –> 00:29:58,940
[Jason Fitcher]: how you

655
00:30:03,339 –> 00:30:06,539
[Paul Tyler]: to make a bet on g do i keep this thing and

656
00:30:06,260 –> 00:30:07,260
[Jason Fitcher]: yeah

657
00:30:06,699 –> 00:30:09,819
[Paul Tyler]: get the appreciation keep you know is the market going to still going up so they

658
00:30:09,979 –> 00:30:14,059
[Paul Tyler]: bet that the probably the market’s up as high as it’s going go or they don’t need

659
00:30:14,119 –> 00:30:15,119
[Paul Tyler]: you know it’s something they

660
00:30:14,580 –> 00:30:15,580
[Jason Fitcher]: he

661
00:30:14,719 –> 00:30:15,719
[Paul Tyler]: don’t need

662
00:30:16,619 –> 00:30:19,659
[Paul Tyler]: so they’re gonna take their profits so they’re clearly using the principle and

663
00:30:19,659 –> 00:30:23,659
[Paul Tyler]: doing something else with whatever their or whatever their basis was in one of

664
00:30:23,659 –> 00:30:27,899
[Paul Tyler]: these news so they’re diversifying their risk right so they’re keeping some who

665
00:30:27,979 –> 00:30:30,619
[Paul Tyler]: knows what they’re doing the the capital gains the

666
00:30:30,340 –> 00:30:31,340
[Jason Fitcher]: and

667
00:30:30,779 –> 00:30:35,499
[Paul Tyler]: thinking of putting in annuities now here’s what it’s it’s more complicated i had

668
00:30:35,659 –> 00:30:41,259
[Paul Tyler]: to go dig deep on this one ramsey you love this if they submit jointly will a

669
00:30:41,060 –> 00:30:42,060
[Jason Fitcher]: what i

670
00:30:41,339 –> 00:30:42,859
[Paul Tyler]: policy continue as normal should

671
00:30:42,820 –> 00:30:43,820
[Jason Fitcher]: the new york

672
00:30:43,019 –> 00:30:47,419
[Paul Tyler]: one pass or is it better for just one to submit okay so he’s also managing

673
00:30:47,439 –> 00:30:48,439
[Paul Tyler]: longevity risk

674
00:30:48,160 –> 00:30:50,320
[Jason Fitcher]: but if and spouse

675
00:30:50,439 –> 00:30:51,439
[Paul Tyler]: the spouse

676
00:30:50,860 –> 00:30:51,860
[Jason Fitcher]: possible benefit

677
00:30:51,737 –> 00:30:52,737
[Ramsey Smith]: yep

678
00:30:52,619 –> 00:30:55,659
[Paul Tyler]: right how long are they are they going to go and you know the answer is

679
00:30:55,739 –> 00:31:00,139
[Paul Tyler]: complicated because you know if if one’s an owner as it turns out ramsay don’t

680
00:30:59,919 –> 00:31:00,919
[Paul Tyler]: know this before

681
00:31:00,880 –> 00:31:02,560
[Jason Fitcher]: why you go over that i

682
00:31:01,659 –> 00:31:07,259
[Paul Tyler]: you know certain of these features are disappear if the spouse is a is just listed

683
00:31:07,339 –> 00:31:11,979
[Paul Tyler]: as a beneficiary so you got to think through what the contract is who you put on

684
00:31:11,599 –> 00:31:12,599
[Paul Tyler]: as

685
00:31:12,100 –> 00:31:13,100
[Jason Fitcher]: i did like

686
00:31:12,219 –> 00:31:13,819
[Paul Tyler]: the owner and then

687
00:31:14,139 –> 00:31:18,139
[Paul Tyler]: jason the next questions we sort of dig down is like when the money is

688
00:31:14,400 –> 00:31:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: she would be man

689
00:31:17,820 –> 00:31:18,820
[Jason Fitcher]: like you

690
00:31:18,219 –> 00:31:21,979
[Paul Tyler]: withdrawn on a monthly basis how’s it taxed oh

691
00:31:23,020 –> 00:31:24,020
[Jason Fitcher]: i think i

692
00:31:23,659 –> 00:31:27,499
[Paul Tyler]: you know here’s it okay well is it a free withdrawal versus income versus

693
00:31:28,939 –> 00:31:32,859
[Paul Tyler]: what does the tax rate look like five six ten years from now

694
00:31:32,640 –> 00:31:36,800
[Jason Fitcher]: ten year again your point life is complicated these are complicated decisions

695
00:31:36,859 –> 00:31:37,979
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so yeah

696
00:31:37,120 –> 00:31:40,640
[Jason Fitcher]: and i think well this is you know again there’s a lot of things we don’t know

697
00:31:40,720 –> 00:31:43,520
[Jason Fitcher]: about their their circumstances right do they have other assets besides the house

698
00:31:43,680 –> 00:31:47,680
[Jason Fitcher]: they just sold how much of the assets do they have are they getting any other

699
00:31:47,840 –> 00:31:52,720
[Jason Fitcher]: income from dividends are they do they have an ira they taking r m ds i

700
00:31:52,720 –> 00:31:56,880
[Jason Fitcher]: don’t know so there there’s is a lot that goes into this but what i started seeing

701
00:31:52,937 –> 00:31:53,937
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t there’s

702
00:31:57,200 –> 00:32:00,480
[Jason Fitcher]: you know again and partis and the research you seeing the data and then two is the

703
00:32:00,560 –> 00:32:03,520
[Jason Fitcher]: anecdote when we talk to real people and you start to merge the two together to

704
00:32:03,600 –> 00:32:08,240
[Jason Fitcher]: get a picture of what’s going on in retirement is that more people are entering

705
00:32:08,320 –> 00:32:12,000
[Jason Fitcher]: retirement with housing debt so they haven’t paid off their mortgage and they’ve

706
00:32:12,000 –> 00:32:17,280
[Jason Fitcher]: been so useless framing of well i can borrow for cheap it’s almost co the phrase i

707
00:32:17,280 –> 00:32:19,120
[Jason Fitcher]: always hate is it’s almost free money

708
00:32:20,240 –> 00:32:21,840
[Jason Fitcher]: there’s no such thing as free i

709
00:32:21,920 –> 00:32:25,680
[Jason Fitcher]: mean there’s just there’s this and that and i don’t mean that you know the people

710
00:32:21,997 –> 00:32:23,117
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s the truth yeah

711
00:32:25,840 –> 00:32:28,880
[Jason Fitcher]: say free money because the cost is low but it’s the opportunity cost of that money

712
00:32:29,280 –> 00:32:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: what you could do with it and you have some people saying well take the money out

713
00:32:32,240 –> 00:32:35,520
[Jason Fitcher]: of your house in which you’re paying even if you’re paying now say you’re paying

714
00:32:35,600 –> 00:32:38,560
[Jason Fitcher]: four percent if you’re paying four percent you can put up the market making ten

715
00:32:38,640 –> 00:32:41,440
[Jason Fitcher]: percent a year and your arbitrage the taxes you’re coming out of head you’re not

716
00:32:41,440 –> 00:32:45,280
[Jason Fitcher]: financially smart where the market goes down right so you lose twenty percentage

717
00:32:45,520 –> 00:32:49,440
[Jason Fitcher]: one year in a market you’ve now got this huge debt on your house

718
00:32:49,039 –> 00:32:50,039
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

719
00:32:49,520 –> 00:32:52,160
[Jason Fitcher]: that you got to pay for you might not be able to afford it where it happened to

720
00:32:52,240 –> 00:32:55,200
[Jason Fitcher]: your income stream now you’re out of a house what do you do you gonna go live with

721
00:32:55,100 –> 00:32:56,100
[Jason Fitcher]: your kids you’re gonna

722
00:32:55,657 –> 00:32:56,657
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s

723
00:32:55,900 –> 00:32:56,900
[Jason Fitcher]: you know

724
00:32:57,840 –> 00:33:01,280
[Jason Fitcher]: this is the risk that we’re not talking about it’s too focused on

725
00:33:02,320 –> 00:33:06,240
[Jason Fitcher]: trying to get maximum yield after the point of time when you should be thinking

726
00:33:06,240 –> 00:33:09,200
[Jason Fitcher]: about yield i’m not saying you don’t think of growth mats i think about inflation

727
00:33:09,280 –> 00:33:13,600
[Jason Fitcher]: but that goes back to a diversified portfolio and the house should be part of a

728
00:33:13,680 –> 00:33:15,600
[Jason Fitcher]: diversified portfolio and also

729
00:33:15,457 –> 00:33:16,457
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

730
00:33:15,840 –> 00:33:20,560
[Jason Fitcher]: but it’s this is where think people get confused they they see like a stock and a

731
00:33:20,560 –> 00:33:24,320
[Jason Fitcher]: bond and they think that’s an asset so in their head it’s an asset they look at

732
00:33:24,400 –> 00:33:28,000
[Jason Fitcher]: the house and for a lot of fines professionals they talk about it as an asset but

733
00:33:28,080 –> 00:33:30,240
[Jason Fitcher]: it takes two functions one is the asset

734
00:33:29,999 –> 00:33:30,999
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

735
00:33:30,320 –> 00:33:32,240
[Jason Fitcher]: so diversify your portfolio but

736
00:33:32,559 –> 00:33:33,559
[Paul Tyler]: yes

737
00:33:32,960 –> 00:33:38,000
[Jason Fitcher]: you consume housing you’re living in it so to an economist i’m looking at this

738
00:33:38,000 –> 00:33:39,040
[Jason Fitcher]: house that i sit in and

739
00:33:38,897 –> 00:33:39,897
[Ramsey Smith]: did i

740
00:33:39,120 –> 00:33:43,280
[Jason Fitcher]: i’m talking to you guys on i’m consuming living here so it’s part investment part

741
00:33:43,360 –> 00:33:47,360
[Jason Fitcher]: consumption and it’s that consumption that we talk about with our monthly expenses

742
00:33:47,440 –> 00:33:51,040
[Jason Fitcher]: we have in retirement i have to consume utilities i have to consume housing i have

743
00:33:51,200 –> 00:33:54,720
[Jason Fitcher]: to consume carss that to consume travel to consume health care if all of a sudden

744
00:33:54,720 –> 00:33:56,960
[Jason Fitcher]: my housing consumption costs are low

745
00:33:58,000 –> 00:34:02,560
[Jason Fitcher]: i have a lot more flexibility to do and afford the other things including shocks

746
00:34:03,837 –> 00:34:05,997
[Ramsey Smith]: one of which is inflation right

747
00:34:05,860 –> 00:34:06,860
[Jason Fitcher]: is it yes

748
00:34:06,057 –> 00:34:07,057
[Ramsey Smith]: so like if you

749
00:34:06,719 –> 00:34:07,719
[Paul Tyler]: yes

750
00:34:07,197 –> 00:34:08,637
[Ramsey Smith]: because if you rent if you rent

751
00:34:08,260 –> 00:34:09,260
[Jason Fitcher]: good point

752
00:34:08,717 –> 00:34:11,277
[Ramsey Smith]: housing inflation’ is going to hit you more directly than if you

753
00:34:11,119 –> 00:34:12,119
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

754
00:34:11,677 –> 00:34:14,637
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you own your home so you’re indexed no

755
00:34:12,880 –> 00:34:17,120
[Jason Fitcher]: yep that that’s yep you’re exactly right and this is also i mean pill asked what

756
00:34:17,200 –> 00:34:19,280
[Jason Fitcher]: should i rent in retirement but yeah the best answer

757
00:34:18,959 –> 00:34:19,959
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

758
00:34:19,680 –> 00:34:24,320
[Jason Fitcher]: we always talked about for any economic question is it depends right so you go

759
00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:27,840
[Jason Fitcher]: back to that couple you were talking about the advisor who emailed you paul what

760
00:34:27,540 –> 00:34:28,540
[Jason Fitcher]: if that

761
00:34:27,777 –> 00:34:28,777
[Ramsey Smith]: like

762
00:34:27,780 –> 00:34:28,780
[Jason Fitcher]: couple

763
00:34:28,159 –> 00:34:29,159
[Paul Tyler]: that

764
00:34:28,640 –> 00:34:30,080
[Jason Fitcher]: said we’re you know we decide

765
00:34:29,879 –> 00:34:30,879
[Paul Tyler]: i want

766
00:34:30,240 –> 00:34:32,720
[Jason Fitcher]: we wanna take the next eighteen months in travel

767
00:34:33,760 –> 00:34:37,600
[Jason Fitcher]: you could use in some way some proceeds have a small base sign of twelve or

768
00:34:37,600 –> 00:34:41,280
[Jason Fitcher]: eighteen month lease right lock in payments have a have a home base use those

769
00:34:41,520 –> 00:34:42,640
[Jason Fitcher]: proceeds to pay for rent

770
00:34:42,417 –> 00:34:43,417
[Ramsey Smith]: by

771
00:34:42,800 –> 00:34:46,160
[Jason Fitcher]: go travel and then figure out when you come back whether or not you need to have a

772
00:34:46,160 –> 00:34:50,080
[Jason Fitcher]: small condo or a small house or what you want to do renting is not always bad but

773
00:34:50,240 –> 00:34:54,240
[Jason Fitcher]: again you have to understand that there’s consumption and that’s part of your

774
00:34:54,240 –> 00:34:57,760
[Jason Fitcher]: budget fine but you’re now exposing yourself to rental increases and everything

775
00:34:57,540 –> 00:34:58,540
[Jason Fitcher]: else so

776
00:34:59,440 –> 00:35:02,640
[Jason Fitcher]: got i want people to have these conversations because it’s the conversations that

777
00:35:02,720 –> 00:35:06,160
[Jason Fitcher]: allow the individual to say hey i also have this issue i didn’t tell you about

778
00:35:06,240 –> 00:35:09,440
[Jason Fitcher]: maybe add that into the conversation and see what that means for my my risk

779
00:35:09,179 –> 00:35:13,579
[Paul Tyler]: you visited oh yeah well in ramsey you gotta laugh so you know where my head

780
00:35:13,659 –> 00:35:17,419
[Paul Tyler]: goes there is gee if you’re going to travel and you’re senior do you have met sup

781
00:35:13,760 –> 00:35:14,880
[Jason Fitcher]: i don’t know yeah

782
00:35:17,579 –> 00:35:22,539
[Paul Tyler]: you have that advantage and are you going to be a networker out jason it’s just

783
00:35:22,539 –> 00:35:26,699
[Paul Tyler]: it’s like you pull a thread and it’s just it just will not stop coming

784
00:35:30,480 –> 00:35:34,400
[Jason Fitcher]: these are again they’re complicated issues i i don’t want to solve them with a

785
00:35:34,480 –> 00:35:38,800
[Jason Fitcher]: bumper sticker you know rules of thumbs you know are general rules that don’t

786
00:35:38,800 –> 00:35:43,840
[Jason Fitcher]: always apply to everybody but it it is important to have these conversations and i

787
00:35:43,840 –> 00:35:46,800
[Jason Fitcher]: think that’s one of the things that is improving we are seeing it improve

788
00:35:48,800 –> 00:35:53,520
[Jason Fitcher]: but too often i and i love that in fact we have access to credit believe it access

789
00:35:53,760 –> 00:35:58,000
[Jason Fitcher]: to credit makes things work i mean this is just i’m all in favor of access to

790
00:35:58,080 –> 00:36:01,600
[Jason Fitcher]: credit i want to be more nuanced i can have a better discussion of what it means

791
00:36:02,080 –> 00:36:05,840
[Jason Fitcher]: because it becomes too easy that people don’t really understand the long term

792
00:36:06,800 –> 00:36:11,520
[Jason Fitcher]: implications of that debt that’s whether credit card debt car debt housing debt

793
00:36:11,600 –> 00:36:15,200
[Jason Fitcher]: you name it um but it’s part of that conversation you have to have before you go

794
00:36:15,360 –> 00:36:17,840
[Jason Fitcher]: into well before you go into retirement to be honest

795
00:36:18,459 –> 00:36:23,659
[Paul Tyler]: so ramsey i don’t know you maybe you you your takeaways did we make this simpler

796
00:36:23,739 –> 00:36:24,779
[Paul Tyler]: or more complicated

797
00:36:26,637 –> 00:36:30,877
[Ramsey Smith]: for me that the the the biggest thing i would hope that everybody takes away from

798
00:36:31,037 –> 00:36:33,277
[Ramsey Smith]: this is one this

799
00:36:32,879 –> 00:36:33,879
[Paul Tyler]: like

800
00:36:32,980 –> 00:36:33,980
[Jason Fitcher]: well

801
00:36:33,177 –> 00:36:34,177
[Ramsey Smith]: idea that

802
00:36:33,177 –> 00:36:34,177
[Ramsey Smith]: idea that

803
00:36:35,137 –> 00:36:36,137
[Ramsey Smith]: that

804
00:36:35,759 –> 00:36:36,759
[Paul Tyler]: you

805
00:36:35,837 –> 00:36:39,517
[Ramsey Smith]: reducing risk and retirement is critical cause you’ve got fewer options

806
00:36:39,679 –> 00:36:40,679
[Paul Tyler]: that

807
00:36:40,397 –> 00:36:41,837
[Ramsey Smith]: to an important component of that

808
00:36:40,400 –> 00:36:42,080
[Jason Fitcher]: you’re like oh oh

809
00:36:43,057 –> 00:36:44,057
[Ramsey Smith]: is

810
00:36:43,500 –> 00:36:44,500
[Jason Fitcher]: that not

811
00:36:44,237 –> 00:36:47,837
[Ramsey Smith]: reducing or eliminating the debt that you have associated with

812
00:36:47,599 –> 00:36:48,599
[Paul Tyler]: my

813
00:36:47,997 –> 00:36:51,037
[Ramsey Smith]: your your housing because it imparts more risk three

814
00:36:50,719 –> 00:36:51,719
[Paul Tyler]: we

815
00:36:51,277 –> 00:36:54,077
[Ramsey Smith]: to the extent that you have a house that is an asset

816
00:36:54,239 –> 00:36:55,239
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

817
00:36:54,817 –> 00:36:55,817
[Ramsey Smith]: and you can

818
00:36:55,780 –> 00:36:56,780
[Jason Fitcher]: what type what

819
00:36:55,917 –> 00:37:00,637
[Ramsey Smith]: use it to create sources of liquidity those are sources of liquidity that should

820
00:37:00,717 –> 00:37:03,677
[Ramsey Smith]: be used one in the case of emergencies and two in the case

821
00:37:04,717 –> 00:37:08,237
[Ramsey Smith]: of financing your sort of essential consumption in retirement

822
00:37:08,940 –> 00:37:09,940
[Jason Fitcher]: alright

823
00:37:09,677 –> 00:37:14,237
[Ramsey Smith]: and only frankly as a last resort for non essentials so

824
00:37:12,400 –> 00:37:14,400
[Jason Fitcher]: okay i know about play s

825
00:37:15,279 –> 00:37:16,279
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

826
00:37:15,517 –> 00:37:19,917
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s sort of the framework that sort of i put together as we were as we were

827
00:37:15,517 –> 00:37:19,917
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s sort of the framework that sort of i put together as we were as we were

828
00:37:20,057 –> 00:37:21,057
[Ramsey Smith]: walking through this

829
00:37:20,057 –> 00:37:21,057
[Ramsey Smith]: walking through this

830
00:37:21,120 –> 00:37:24,960
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s a fantastic for eric ramsay and now we know why you get paid the big bucks

831
00:37:25,040 –> 00:37:27,360
[Jason Fitcher]: cause you hit it right on the not right in the nose

832
00:37:28,539 –> 00:37:33,499
[Paul Tyler]: yeah well jason this was this was great um i guess you you’ve done some really

833
00:37:33,279 –> 00:37:34,279
[Paul Tyler]: good research

834
00:37:35,179 –> 00:37:36,459
[Paul Tyler]: we have a lot of advisors

835
00:37:37,499 –> 00:37:41,179
[Paul Tyler]: what would you suggest first of all where can they find more of what you’re doing

836
00:37:41,579 –> 00:37:45,099
[Paul Tyler]: and is there any place you’d say advisors should look to as they’re

837
00:37:45,057 –> 00:37:46,057
[Ramsey Smith]: uh

838
00:37:45,259 –> 00:37:49,259
[Paul Tyler]: helping their clients think through what they do with their mortgage

839
00:37:50,320 –> 00:37:53,520
[Jason Fitcher]: so my research you can you can google my name and i think you guys post links

840
00:37:53,380 –> 00:37:54,380
[Jason Fitcher]: sometimes to the research

841
00:37:53,919 –> 00:37:54,919
[Paul Tyler]: yes

842
00:37:54,480 –> 00:37:57,600
[Jason Fitcher]: so i i have two papers that were financed by the social security administration

843
00:37:57,600 –> 00:38:01,920
[Jason Fitcher]: that were done through the university of wisconsin on on debt and retirement and

844
00:38:01,920 –> 00:38:05,120
[Jason Fitcher]: that includes not just housing debt which is the largest debt but even credit card

845
00:38:05,200 –> 00:38:09,360
[Jason Fitcher]: debt which shows that debt levels are rising and and if someone is going to email

846
00:38:09,440 –> 00:38:10,720
[Jason Fitcher]: you we should say that it’s also

847
00:38:11,137 –> 00:38:12,137
[Ramsey Smith]: yes

848
00:38:11,200 –> 00:38:16,240
[Jason Fitcher]: assets arising but the debt to asset ratio is also rising so as people get more

849
00:38:16,320 –> 00:38:19,360
[Jason Fitcher]: assets they feel like they were more comfortable taking on more debt and we see

850
00:38:19,440 –> 00:38:22,480
[Jason Fitcher]: that like for ten percent of the population heading into retirement at some point

851
00:38:22,380 –> 00:38:23,380
[Jason Fitcher]: they have

852
00:38:23,097 –> 00:38:24,097
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah yeah

853
00:38:23,200 –> 00:38:27,200
[Jason Fitcher]: more debt liabilities and assets to cover them so that’s also important so

854
00:38:27,039 –> 00:38:28,039
[Paul Tyler]: that

855
00:38:27,360 –> 00:38:31,200
[Jason Fitcher]: that’s online again you can just google my name and like ho home mortgage those

856
00:38:31,360 –> 00:38:33,280
[Jason Fitcher]: two papers should come up i would

857
00:38:32,977 –> 00:38:33,977
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe

858
00:38:33,440 –> 00:38:36,240
[Jason Fitcher]: encourage people to pull up a two to pager that the social

859
00:38:36,560 –> 00:38:40,800
[Jason Fitcher]: administration does when to start receiving retirement benefits it sort of walks

860
00:38:36,577 –> 00:38:37,577
[Ramsey Smith]: see

861
00:38:40,880 –> 00:38:43,840
[Jason Fitcher]: through this kitchen table conversation about thinking about your spouse other

862
00:38:43,920 –> 00:38:47,520
[Jason Fitcher]: assets that’s even a good framework to have on thinking about what it means to pay

863
00:38:47,600 –> 00:38:50,480
[Jason Fitcher]: off your house like what other assets do you have what other sources of income do

864
00:38:50,560 –> 00:38:52,000
[Jason Fitcher]: you have what do you want to do how’s your health

865
00:38:51,799 –> 00:38:52,799
[Paul Tyler]: let’s see

866
00:38:52,080 –> 00:38:54,640
[Jason Fitcher]: those are important things to have a conversation with people

867
00:38:54,319 –> 00:38:55,319
[Paul Tyler]: what

868
00:38:54,800 –> 00:38:58,240
[Jason Fitcher]: on and then obviously the alliance for lifetime income which is that protective

869
00:38:58,320 –> 00:39:00,160
[Jason Fitcher]: income that or we have a lot of uh

870
00:39:01,040 –> 00:39:03,680
[Jason Fitcher]: materials for financial professionals they can use

871
00:39:01,057 –> 00:39:02,057
[Ramsey Smith]: hear

872
00:39:04,720 –> 00:39:09,760
[Jason Fitcher]: and also for consumers there’s a dictionary there’s glass of terms there’s things

873
00:39:09,840 –> 00:39:12,880
[Jason Fitcher]: you should ask your financial professionals so we have terms online as well and

874
00:39:12,960 –> 00:39:16,960
[Jason Fitcher]: the bipartisan pa center were doing lots of research on retirement security google

875
00:39:17,040 –> 00:39:21,200
[Jason Fitcher]: funding our future and it’ll pop up to the b b pc page you can see all the work

876
00:39:21,360 –> 00:39:24,720
[Jason Fitcher]: we’re doing there to help people have a financially secure retirement but also a

877
00:39:24,880 –> 00:39:28,800
[Jason Fitcher]: financially secure working years we’re trying to also encourage like secure act

878
00:39:28,960 –> 00:39:32,560
[Jason Fitcher]: two point zero and more employers to have financial wellness programs and to

879
00:39:32,640 –> 00:39:35,360
[Jason Fitcher]: encourage people to have access to and save for retirement as well

880
00:39:35,739 –> 00:39:39,579
[Paul Tyler]: oh that’s great listen we’ll put all those links in the show notes and jason

881
00:39:39,659 –> 00:39:42,379
[Paul Tyler]: thanks thanks for having me on here again this is great yeah

882
00:39:41,357 –> 00:39:43,277
[Ramsey Smith]: thanks a lot thanks for coming back

883
00:39:42,480 –> 00:39:45,280
[Jason Fitcher]: always a pleasure gentlemen good to see you both and have this discussion

884
00:39:43,739 –> 00:39:48,459
[Paul Tyler]: yeah hey ramsey thanks and uh thanks to all our listeners and be sure to tune

885
00:39:48,619 –> 00:39:52,299
[Paul Tyler]: again next week for another episode of that annuity show thanks

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 143: When Should Your Client Pay Off The Mortgage With Jason Fichtner
read more

SPECIAL EPISODE – David Czerniecki Discusses Inflation Trends

No comments

Inflation is the topic of the day. How high will it go? How long will it last? In a special episode, David Czerniecki, Chief Investment Officer for Nassau Financial Group shares his perspective on inflation and the global economy.

 Listen

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersSPECIAL EPISODE – David Czerniecki Discusses Inflation Trends
read more

Episode 142: Everything You Wanted to Know About the Nasdaq-100 With Efram Slen and Mark Marex

No comments
Indices continue to proliferate inside fixed indexed annuities. Some of them stand by brand name and reputation alone. The Nasdaq-100 falls squarely into that category. Today we have two representatives from Nasdaq on to talk about their index. You may be surprised about what you learn. We welcome Efram Slen, Head of Index Research and Mark Marex, Head of Index Research & Product Development for Nasdaq.
Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Go to https://thatannuityshow.com and subscribe to our newsletter.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Links mentioned in the show:

Thank you to our show sponsor; The Index Standard!

Fixed Index Annuities and RILAs are getting more complex and technical just when fiduciary rules are getting stricter. How do you choose the right index and allocate to them? The Index Standard is your answer. They are an independent provider ratings and forecasts on all indices and ETFs used in the US insurance space. Their process is systematic and unbiased, identifying robust and well-designed indices. We all know finance is complex and The Index Standard has a clear ratings system and uses approachable language to demystify this complexity. Visit theindexstandard.com for more information.

 Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

Transcript

1
00:00:01,280 –> 00:00:06,640
[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

2
00:00:06,540 –> 00:00:07,540
[Paul Tyler]: welcome again

3
00:00:08,133 –> 00:00:09,133
[Ramsey Smith]: always great to be here

4
00:00:09,680 –> 00:00:14,080
[Paul Tyler]: all right we’ve moved to sweaters i i didn’t bring mine today with ties to shirts

5
00:00:14,160 –> 00:00:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: i know it’s what’s

6
00:00:15,273 –> 00:00:19,193
[Ramsey Smith]: i needed to mix it up like it was nothing but sort of a typical brooks brother’s

7
00:00:19,193 –> 00:00:23,273
[Ramsey Smith]: blue shirt for the first like a hundred and forty two episodes so i’ve mixed it

8
00:00:22,933 –> 00:00:23,933
[Ramsey Smith]: up now

9
00:00:24,160 –> 00:00:27,680
[Paul Tyler]: that’s that’s great hey we have a really interesting show today

10
00:00:28,960 –> 00:00:32,960
[Paul Tyler]: and it’s it’s going to be out of in indices we’ve had a lot of conversations with

11
00:00:33,040 –> 00:00:38,320
[Paul Tyler]: people about indices where they fit in the products and we thought hey listen why

12
00:00:38,320 –> 00:00:43,840
[Paul Tyler]: don’t we actually bring some actual experts on who run one and today we have

13
00:00:44,240 –> 00:00:47,760
[Paul Tyler]: representatives from the nasdaq one hundred index

14
00:00:48,880 –> 00:00:52,080
[Paul Tyler]: and i am going to say full disclosure

15
00:00:53,840 –> 00:00:58,400
[Paul Tyler]: my company by day we are proud partners with nasdaq one hundred we just

16
00:01:00,000 –> 00:01:05,280
[Paul Tyler]: actually added the nasdaq one hundred to a number of our flagship fi products but

17
00:01:05,280 –> 00:01:09,280
[Paul Tyler]: we just want to go deeper and understand what it is and i’d like to welcome two

18
00:01:09,440 –> 00:01:15,760
[Paul Tyler]: individuals Efram Slen who is the head of index research and Mark Marex who

19
00:01:15,840 –> 00:01:23,680
[Paul Tyler]: is the senior specialist nasdaq excuse me senior specialist of the nasdaq indexed

20
00:01:23,920 –> 00:01:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: research function mark that i think i clobbered your your title

21
00:01:31,154 –> 00:01:33,474
[Mark Marex]: you were totally fine thanks paul

22
00:01:31,360 –> 00:01:34,240
[Paul Tyler]: totally fine alright hey after mark welcome

23
00:01:35,876 –> 00:01:37,396
[Efram Slen]: glad to be here thanks for having us

24
00:01:37,540 –> 00:01:38,540
[Paul Tyler]: hey thanks

25
00:01:37,933 –> 00:01:38,933
[Ramsey Smith]: like

26
00:01:38,400 –> 00:01:40,320
[Paul Tyler]: hey listen first question is

27
00:01:41,440 –> 00:01:44,880
[Paul Tyler]: nasdaq nasdaq indices nasdaq index

28
00:01:46,240 –> 00:01:50,960
[Paul Tyler]: you kind of say nasdaq and somebody says oh yeah the nasdaq index but i know the

29
00:01:51,040 –> 00:01:55,200
[Paul Tyler]: world’s a lot more complicated than that can you just kind of lay out maybe after

30
00:01:54,980 –> 00:01:55,980
[Paul Tyler]: from like

31
00:01:57,200 –> 00:02:01,040
[Paul Tyler]: what in when we say index what index are we talking about how many indices could

32
00:02:01,120 –> 00:02:04,880
[Paul Tyler]: we be talking about that the nasdaq is responsible for creates

33
00:02:06,676 –> 00:02:10,436
[Efram Slen]: think thanks ball it there are actually over forty five thousand indexes that

34
00:02:10,516 –> 00:02:14,836
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq calculates right just like some of the other big big index players out

35
00:02:14,916 –> 00:02:18,516
[Efram Slen]: there there are actually hundreds of the thousands of indexes that are calculated

36
00:02:18,676 –> 00:02:22,036
[Efram Slen]: there are only a handful that people really know globally so when you think of

37
00:02:22,116 –> 00:02:25,716
[Efram Slen]: nasa i can hear every single day people say the nasdaq went up the nasdaq went

38
00:02:25,796 –> 00:02:29,796
[Efram Slen]: down that’s actually the nasdaq composite that’s usually being referenced that’s

39
00:02:29,876 –> 00:02:34,036
[Efram Slen]: the index comprised of all securities listed on the nasdaq stock exchange so

40
00:02:34,036 –> 00:02:38,516
[Efram Slen]: that’s over a couple thousand names as opposed to the nasdaq one hundred which

41
00:02:38,596 –> 00:02:41,556
[Efram Slen]: folks still know it’s very very prominent it’s the one that’s actually the

42
00:02:41,636 –> 00:02:46,436
[Efram Slen]: barometer for the invesco qq et f and the products that you were talking about

43
00:02:46,516 –> 00:02:51,156
[Efram Slen]: right it’s an index comprised of the one hundred largest nonfinancial companies

44
00:02:51,476 –> 00:02:55,236
[Efram Slen]: from the nasdaq composite so when people tend to say the nasdaq went up and na as

45
00:02:55,396 –> 00:02:59,396
[Efram Slen]: they went down they’re actually usually referencing the composite but a lot of

46
00:02:59,476 –> 00:03:03,396
[Efram Slen]: times it gets interspersed and confused with the nasa one hundred which is where

47
00:03:03,536 –> 00:03:04,536
[Efram Slen]: all the products really

48
00:03:04,140 –> 00:03:05,140
[Paul Tyler]: how many

49
00:03:04,256 –> 00:03:05,256
[Efram Slen]: are tracking

50
00:03:07,060 –> 00:03:08,060
[Paul Tyler]: yeah and

51
00:03:08,880 –> 00:03:13,920
[Paul Tyler]: maybe just explain the mechanics so companies in the nasdaq one hundred it’s out

52
00:03:13,740 –> 00:03:14,740
[Paul Tyler]: of the one hundred

53
00:03:16,080 –> 00:03:18,960
[Paul Tyler]: how does that actually happen like is this monthly weekly

54
00:03:20,320 –> 00:03:23,680
[Paul Tyler]: what’s the process do you how do you actually manage something like this

55
00:03:24,836 –> 00:03:28,916
[Efram Slen]: so so back in nineteen seventy one maybe even give this this kind of breakdown so

56
00:03:29,076 –> 00:03:33,316
[Efram Slen]: back in nineteen seventy one when nasdaq the exchange launched that’s when the

57
00:03:33,396 –> 00:03:38,196
[Efram Slen]: composite was created fifteen years later we launched the nasdaq one hundred as

58
00:03:38,436 –> 00:03:40,756
[Efram Slen]: the tradable version right so once a

59
00:03:40,333 –> 00:03:41,333
[Ramsey Smith]: what

60
00:03:40,836 –> 00:03:44,756
[Efram Slen]: year since nineteen eighty five we have an annual reconstitution it’s a rules

61
00:03:44,836 –> 00:03:48,676
[Efram Slen]: based transfer process where the one hundred largest nonfinancial companies are

62
00:03:48,756 –> 00:03:53,396
[Efram Slen]: selected that happens every december and it’s called the quad witch day of the

63
00:03:53,476 –> 00:03:58,676
[Efram Slen]: third friday of december the other three quarters just a rebalancing that occurs

64
00:03:58,676 –> 00:04:01,316
[Efram Slen]: right so weights are reviewed and ensured that they are meeting all the

65
00:04:01,396 –> 00:04:05,716
[Efram Slen]: regulatory elements there so where necessary capping might might be applied

66
00:04:06,836 –> 00:04:10,596
[Efram Slen]: yeah so that’s it again in a nutshell the the nasdaq one hundred

67
00:04:11,716 –> 00:04:14,756
[Efram Slen]: again once a year that’s when names are are added again they need to be non

68
00:04:14,836 –> 00:04:17,796
[Efram Slen]: financial and they meet a variety of other criteria but the most important being

69
00:04:17,956 –> 00:04:19,956
[Efram Slen]: that they’re listed on the nasdaq exchange

70
00:04:20,473 –> 00:04:25,353
[Ramsey Smith]: are there who who actually makes the decision so if you look at the index indices

71
00:04:25,513 –> 00:04:29,353
[Ramsey Smith]: that are out there you’ve got s p indices which are actually in some sense

72
00:04:29,593 –> 00:04:31,193
[Ramsey Smith]: actively managed and then you have

73
00:04:32,393 –> 00:04:37,593
[Ramsey Smith]: indices which are truly rule based where do you stand in terms you know what

74
00:04:37,753 –> 00:04:42,473
[Ramsey Smith]: determines what is added orle is it does somebody make a decision is there a

75
00:04:42,473 –> 00:04:43,753
[Ramsey Smith]: committee how is that managed

76
00:04:44,756 –> 00:04:49,396
[Efram Slen]: i’m glad you asked that ramsay so we are entirely rules based it’s something that

77
00:04:49,476 –> 00:04:53,316
[Efram Slen]: we really pride ourselves on and interesting and so if you look back at the

78
00:04:53,396 –> 00:04:57,316
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq one hundred one of the things that made us unique compared to the sn p

79
00:04:57,316 –> 00:04:59,876
[Efram Slen]: five hundred in particular is that tesla right made

80
00:04:59,780 –> 00:05:00,780
[Paul Tyler]: sure

81
00:05:00,196 –> 00:05:03,956
[Efram Slen]: it into the nasdaq one hundred in july twenty thirteen when it was first eligible

82
00:05:04,196 –> 00:05:06,996
[Efram Slen]: at a market cap of around fifteen billion dollars

83
00:05:08,036 –> 00:05:13,316
[Efram Slen]: fast forward seven and seven and a half years later when the s p committee said

84
00:05:13,396 –> 00:05:16,996
[Efram Slen]: yeah it’s eligible for the s p five hundred now it was at a market cap of six

85
00:05:17,156 –> 00:05:21,556
[Efram Slen]: hundred sixty billion dollars right so yeah we’re rules based transparent we’re

86
00:05:21,456 –> 00:05:22,456
[Efram Slen]: really proud of that

87
00:05:23,600 –> 00:05:28,400
[Paul Tyler]: and it interesting so you brought up tesla when i i think of nasdaq i think okay

88
00:05:28,253 –> 00:05:29,253
[Ramsey Smith]: your

89
00:05:28,720 –> 00:05:30,960
[Paul Tyler]: tech you know tech tech tech

90
00:05:31,940 –> 00:05:32,940
[Paul Tyler]: i guess

91
00:05:34,560 –> 00:05:36,080
[Paul Tyler]: what type of misconceptions

92
00:05:37,520 –> 00:05:41,760
[Paul Tyler]: do people make when they think of nasdaq and put technology and tesla in the same

93
00:05:41,820 –> 00:05:42,820
[Paul Tyler]: same bucket

94
00:05:44,276 –> 00:05:48,196
[Efram Slen]: so we actually think of teslas yeah it can be a tech company for sure it’s also

95
00:05:48,276 –> 00:05:51,556
[Efram Slen]: an auto company right there’s a lot of great things that they’re doing look i

96
00:05:51,716 –> 00:05:54,756
[Efram Slen]: said this to it to a colleague and some friends the other day a neighbor mine

97
00:05:54,836 –> 00:05:58,516
[Efram Slen]: just put solar panels on their roof made by tesla one of the coolest things i

98
00:05:58,516 –> 00:06:02,836
[Efram Slen]: think it’s the nicest roof in the block they do a lot more than just create some

99
00:06:02,836 –> 00:06:06,276
[Efram Slen]: of the nicest looking cars on the road but yeah it depends how you want to look

100
00:06:06,356 –> 00:06:09,396
[Efram Slen]: at it right they’re an innovative organization that’s actually the core that word

101
00:06:09,336 –> 00:06:10,336
[Efram Slen]: innovation

102
00:06:10,173 –> 00:06:11,173
[Ramsey Smith]: so

103
00:06:10,996 –> 00:06:14,276
[Efram Slen]: that’s what we think of when we think of the nasdaq one hundred or even the

104
00:06:14,356 –> 00:06:19,636
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq list listing venue in general in our company that’s again it’s a very very

105
00:06:19,796 –> 00:06:24,436
[Efram Slen]: often used word but the reason why we tend to think of it it’s just not not just

106
00:06:24,676 –> 00:06:27,956
[Efram Slen]: technology and of itself so if you look and you break down companies within

107
00:06:28,036 –> 00:06:31,956
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq one hundred some of the biggest names right that come up that you could

108
00:06:32,036 –> 00:06:36,436
[Efram Slen]: probably think from you you have alphabet you have you have amazon microsoft

109
00:06:36,676 –> 00:06:40,836
[Efram Slen]: apple meta platforms and so forth right so some of the biggest names out there

110
00:06:40,996 –> 00:06:44,356
[Efram Slen]: but not all of them are actually classified as technology by your general

111
00:06:44,676 –> 00:06:48,196
[Efram Slen]: classification standards actually only a handful only about half of those were

112
00:06:48,996 –> 00:06:53,636
[Efram Slen]: some of them are consumer discretionary right where is amazon actually fit like

113
00:06:53,796 –> 00:06:57,716
[Efram Slen]: they’re the biggest cloud provider in the world but where do they fit they’re

114
00:06:57,520 –> 00:06:59,520
[Paul Tyler]: or the grocery store i don’t know right

115
00:06:57,616 –> 00:06:58,616
[Efram Slen]: actually consumer

116
00:06:59,556 –> 00:07:02,516
[Efram Slen]: they grocery store that’s right so they’re actually classified as consumer

117
00:07:02,516 –> 00:07:06,596
[Efram Slen]: discretionary so again that’s a fun thing when it comes to classifications a lot

118
00:07:06,596 –> 00:07:10,596
[Efram Slen]: of it’s just perception and a lot of it just comes down to how the rules from

119
00:07:10,756 –> 00:07:13,956
[Efram Slen]: classification systems are actually putting companies into pockets

120
00:07:14,313 –> 00:07:19,273
[Ramsey Smith]: so you mentioned that uh that the companies have to be non financial so i thought

121
00:07:19,433 –> 00:07:23,913
[Ramsey Smith]: that was i actually was not aware of that and so i i’m curious you know in a

122
00:07:23,993 –> 00:07:27,193
[Ramsey Smith]: world where financial used to be something very clear before it was sort of

123
00:07:27,193 –> 00:07:31,593
[Ramsey Smith]: balance sheet intensive banks insurance companies et cetera but now we live in a

124
00:07:31,673 –> 00:07:32,873
[Ramsey Smith]: world of fintech where

125
00:07:33,773 –> 00:07:34,773
[Ramsey Smith]: the

126
00:07:35,673 –> 00:07:39,593
[Ramsey Smith]: there may be a balance sheet it’s balance sheet light and the technology is sort

127
00:07:39,673 –> 00:07:40,953
[Ramsey Smith]: of more sort of important part

128
00:07:42,073 –> 00:07:46,313
[Ramsey Smith]: of the description of the company where does fintech sit for you from your

129
00:07:46,173 –> 00:07:47,173
[Ramsey Smith]: perspective

130
00:07:47,176 –> 00:07:48,176
[Efram Slen]: so

131
00:07:48,916 –> 00:07:52,036
[Efram Slen]: we have to utilize again this goes back to the rules based transparent we

132
00:07:52,116 –> 00:07:55,476
[Efram Slen]: actually outsource the classification we don’t utilize we don’t make those

133
00:07:55,556 –> 00:07:56,676
[Efram Slen]: decisions ourselves we utilize

134
00:07:56,453 –> 00:07:57,453
[Ramsey Smith]: got it

135
00:07:56,676 –> 00:08:00,996
[Efram Slen]: the industry classification benchmark system to determine again are they

136
00:08:01,076 –> 00:08:04,756
[Efram Slen]: financials are they not where do they fit within the rankings so we don’t include

137
00:08:05,076 –> 00:08:08,596
[Efram Slen]: any companies that are classified as financials according to that bench

138
00:08:08,836 –> 00:08:11,156
[Efram Slen]: classification system called ic

139
00:08:11,053 –> 00:08:12,053
[Ramsey Smith]: understood

140
00:08:11,316 –> 00:08:16,116
[Efram Slen]: is the benchmark so companies like nasdaq ourselves we are excluded like t ro

141
00:08:16,276 –> 00:08:19,636
[Efram Slen]: price like cme group that are listed here in nasdaq who proudly have them this

142
00:08:19,716 –> 00:08:23,076
[Efram Slen]: year they’re excluded as a result of that classification

143
00:08:25,120 –> 00:08:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: yeah interesting so if if i were you know

144
00:08:29,680 –> 00:08:35,040
[Paul Tyler]: independent financial adviser presenting nasdaq one hundred to clients what would

145
00:08:35,120 –> 00:08:39,360
[Paul Tyler]: the composition look like you know ten years ago versus today i mean clearly some

146
00:08:39,440 –> 00:08:43,040
[Paul Tyler]: of those names are still there you mentioned tesla was in there i’m sure i bet

147
00:08:43,200 –> 00:08:45,360
[Paul Tyler]: amazon i bet google was but

148
00:08:47,520 –> 00:08:51,360
[Paul Tyler]: what what have been the major major shifts like from there then to now

149
00:08:53,076 –> 00:08:56,036
[Efram Slen]: so definitely in some that we’ve seen even more over the last couple of years

150
00:08:56,276 –> 00:09:00,196
[Efram Slen]: right companies like like zoom rising to prominence right with the work from home

151
00:09:00,356 –> 00:09:03,636
[Efram Slen]: trade that was seen over the last couple of years but to be perfectly frank the

152
00:09:03,716 –> 00:09:05,316
[Efram Slen]: story just continued to evolve

153
00:09:06,596 –> 00:09:10,196
[Efram Slen]: and the important dynamic here is that we try and make sure folks understand is

154
00:09:10,356 –> 00:09:15,636
[Efram Slen]: that the nasdaq one hundred itself post ah the tech bubble and burst it’s a far

155
00:09:15,876 –> 00:09:19,156
[Efram Slen]: different story so even ten years ago the story is actually pretty aren’t similar

156
00:09:19,476 –> 00:09:23,156
[Efram Slen]: today as it was ten years ago it’s the prior ten years that we’re trying to

157
00:09:23,156 –> 00:09:25,476
[Efram Slen]: ensure that people don’t have in the back of their minds

158
00:09:27,833 –> 00:09:31,833
[Ramsey Smith]: so one of the things that we chatted about you know ahead of the show is sort of

159
00:09:33,433 –> 00:09:39,433
[Ramsey Smith]: the profile of the nasdaq and the nasdaq one hundred in the market so we’re in a

160
00:09:39,513 –> 00:09:43,673
[Ramsey Smith]: place where over i call it the last really is ten years since the first custom

161
00:09:43,673 –> 00:09:47,353
[Ramsey Smith]: index came out but probably six or seven before they started coming out like in

162
00:09:47,913 –> 00:09:50,873
[Ramsey Smith]: in real numbers there’s been explosion of customized indices

163
00:09:52,873 –> 00:09:57,753
[Ramsey Smith]: in in the fia space and tell us a little bit about you know about i don’t know

164
00:09:57,833 –> 00:10:02,313
[Ramsey Smith]: how how you feel about competing in that market and why you think why you think

165
00:10:03,033 –> 00:10:05,273
[Ramsey Smith]: your index is something that’s a familiar one

166
00:10:06,633 –> 00:10:09,113
[Ramsey Smith]: you know is for many people maybe a better way to go

167
00:10:11,956 –> 00:10:14,996
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq one hundred the way we think about very many different there are many

168
00:10:15,076 –> 00:10:18,516
[Efram Slen]: different spots that it can fit into a portfolio but it is from an index

169
00:10:18,416 –> 00:10:19,416
[Efram Slen]: perspective right

170
00:10:20,356 –> 00:10:24,276
[Efram Slen]: it can be a large capital play it can be a large growth play it can be a thematic

171
00:10:24,356 –> 00:10:28,196
[Efram Slen]: play there are many different ways or even a technology play there are many

172
00:10:28,276 –> 00:10:33,316
[Efram Slen]: different ways that that this index can fit and it’s really up to frankly how

173
00:10:33,476 –> 00:10:38,516
[Efram Slen]: folks view that type of basket in their portfolio so a big part of what we tend

174
00:10:38,596 –> 00:10:42,196
[Efram Slen]: to do in our research is compare the nasdaq one hundred to the s and p five

175
00:10:42,436 –> 00:10:46,196
[Efram Slen]: hundred because we want to make sure again like i said before the call that

176
00:10:47,396 –> 00:10:51,556
[Efram Slen]: where the nasdaq was in in the early two thousand seconds to then twenty ten to

177
00:10:51,796 –> 00:10:55,876
[Efram Slen]: the twenty tens to today just such a different story we’ve seen such a big

178
00:10:55,956 –> 00:11:00,356
[Efram Slen]: maturation of companies balance sheets completely changing and flipping on their

179
00:11:00,436 –> 00:11:01,636
[Efram Slen]: heads right where today

180
00:11:03,316 –> 00:11:06,596
[Efram Slen]: when you think of the nasdaq one hundred maybe we don’t even think that we pay

181
00:11:06,756 –> 00:11:12,276
[Efram Slen]: dividends we do i mean it’s not a massive dividend paying um in index benchmark

182
00:11:12,436 –> 00:11:15,876
[Efram Slen]: but it’s actually half of what the s and p five hundred is as at the end of

183
00:11:15,956 –> 00:11:22,116
[Efram Slen]: february at around seventy basis points but we are fully fully fledged an index

184
00:11:23,236 –> 00:11:27,156
[Efram Slen]: that index dividend that is dividend payers and so forth so again it’s a pr

185
00:11:27,396 –> 00:11:30,516
[Efram Slen]: pretty pretty great uh story depending on how you’re looking to have it fit into

186
00:11:30,416 –> 00:11:31,416
[Efram Slen]: your portfolio

187
00:11:33,040 –> 00:11:36,880
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i guess how has the risk profile changed do you think of the companies over

188
00:11:36,960 –> 00:11:40,720
[Paul Tyler]: the last ten years in the nasdaq one hundred i mean i would think that if you

189
00:11:41,360 –> 00:11:46,000
[Paul Tyler]: shifted from maybe more tact to as you’re describing more mature companies with

190
00:11:46,320 –> 00:11:50,960
[Paul Tyler]: dividend pain you’d think the volatility the risk might go out however last

191
00:11:51,200 –> 00:11:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: couple of years have been crazy in terms of market volatility what’s your

192
00:11:55,860 –> 00:11:56,860
[Paul Tyler]: perspective on

193
00:11:58,640 –> 00:12:03,200
[Paul Tyler]: you know how how i would allocate you know clients’ funds to the

194
00:12:04,240 –> 00:12:08,640
[Paul Tyler]: nasdaq one hundred versus you know funds a you know indices a b or c

195
00:12:10,836 –> 00:12:13,876
[Efram Slen]: so i actually want to make sure i give mark a chance to jump in on this but one

196
00:12:13,876 –> 00:12:18,036
[Efram Slen]: thing that i’ll comment even just at before he even gets in the answer is that

197
00:12:18,196 –> 00:12:20,276
[Efram Slen]: you know we’re an index provider we’re meant to give

198
00:12:20,653 –> 00:12:21,653
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

199
00:12:21,236 –> 00:12:24,196
[Efram Slen]: a spot for folks to understand and track benchmarks we’re not really giving

200
00:12:24,436 –> 00:12:26,516
[Efram Slen]: investment decisions so i just want to at least caveat

201
00:12:27,936 –> 00:12:28,936
[Efram Slen]: the answer there but

202
00:12:28,820 –> 00:12:29,820
[Paul Tyler]: now thank you

203
00:12:28,996 –> 00:12:30,756
[Efram Slen]: mark i’ll let you jump in thank you

204
00:12:33,794 –> 00:12:36,434
[Mark Marex]: yeah thanks ama i mean i’ll point out a couple of data

205
00:12:36,380 –> 00:12:37,380
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

206
00:12:36,674 –> 00:12:38,834
[Mark Marex]: points that we have one of which is a

207
00:12:38,620 –> 00:12:39,620
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t

208
00:12:38,994 –> 00:12:45,234
[Mark Marex]: you know very long term kind of graph of you know realized volatility when you

209
00:12:45,314 –> 00:12:49,554
[Mark Marex]: look at nasdaq one hundred versus something like the s and p five hundred which

210
00:12:49,634 –> 00:12:54,034
[Mark Marex]: is much broader but plays in that same large cap space right the volatility is

211
00:12:54,274 –> 00:12:59,154
[Mark Marex]: actually very very close over the last ten to fifteen years it’s maybe a

212
00:12:59,154 –> 00:13:03,314
[Mark Marex]: difference of two or three percent a year annualized on average

213
00:13:04,594 –> 00:13:08,274
[Mark Marex]: the really interesting thing though that you know we kind of explored

214
00:13:09,554 –> 00:13:14,274
[Mark Marex]: last year writing up a white paper about you know what the performance looked

215
00:13:14,274 –> 00:13:18,594
[Mark Marex]: like during the covid bear market and how that compared to things like two

216
00:13:18,754 –> 00:13:22,114
[Mark Marex]: thousand eight to things like the tech bubble the nasdaq one hundred actually

217
00:13:22,274 –> 00:13:27,074
[Mark Marex]: outperformed in terms of not just the drawdown being lower in march of twenty

218
00:13:27,314 –> 00:13:31,234
[Mark Marex]: twenty than the s and p five hundred but also volatility being lower and i would

219
00:13:31,314 –> 00:13:35,474
[Mark Marex]: say that speaks more than anything to the difference in the composition versus

220
00:13:35,634 –> 00:13:40,274
[Mark Marex]: ten or fifteen or even twenty years ago it’s not that the sector exposures are

221
00:13:40,180 –> 00:13:41,180
[Paul Tyler]: wait minute

222
00:13:40,514 –> 00:13:45,234
[Mark Marex]: necessarily different tech has continued to be pretty consistent fifty to sixty

223
00:13:45,314 –> 00:13:49,234
[Mark Marex]: percent of the index you get another twenty to thirty percent of the index coming

224
00:13:49,314 –> 00:13:53,314
[Mark Marex]: from things like consumer and health care that stays pretty consistent long term

225
00:13:53,554 –> 00:13:57,794
[Mark Marex]: even though the company underlying will grow larger and grow smaller and go

226
00:13:57,954 –> 00:14:02,994
[Mark Marex]: private and fall out and whatnot right but in terms of you know the reputation

227
00:14:03,154 –> 00:14:07,394
[Mark Marex]: that the index has gotten especially from those top five or so names right

228
00:14:07,714 –> 00:14:11,954
[Mark Marex]: they’re almost like a defensive play nowadays right they they’re extremely

229
00:14:12,034 –> 00:14:17,874
[Mark Marex]: profitable they’re very very efficient and generating cash and turning over their

230
00:14:18,034 –> 00:14:21,634
[Mark Marex]: assets they’ve grown their buybacks which kind of

231
00:14:22,834 –> 00:14:26,754
[Mark Marex]: overshadows the dividend under performance versus something like the s and p five

232
00:14:26,914 –> 00:14:29,954
[Mark Marex]: hundred they’ve grown their buybacks by literally hundreds of billions of dollars

233
00:14:29,954 –> 00:14:31,234
[Mark Marex]: over the past couple of years

234
00:14:32,594 –> 00:14:39,154
[Mark Marex]: and that i think speaks to you know why this index isn’t you know the same as it

235
00:14:39,314 –> 00:14:43,474
[Mark Marex]: used to be twenty years ago where you had a lot of companies that were still

236
00:14:43,714 –> 00:14:47,634
[Mark Marex]: early stage still were unprofitable weren’t doing things like dividends and

237
00:14:47,634 –> 00:14:53,154
[Mark Marex]: buybacks nowadays you have this very very solid fundamental core of the index of

238
00:14:53,314 –> 00:14:58,194
[Mark Marex]: about fifty percentage of the index is the top seven companies and they are all

239
00:14:58,834 –> 00:15:02,594
[Mark Marex]: massive fundamentally strong and sound companies that have this

240
00:15:03,714 –> 00:15:08,194
[Mark Marex]: tail added on top of it of companies that buy enlarge

241
00:15:10,114 –> 00:15:14,034
[Mark Marex]: disproportionately put innovation at the center of their business models that’s

242
00:15:14,034 –> 00:15:17,074
[Mark Marex]: what the index is about to me these days more than anything else

243
00:15:19,353 –> 00:15:23,753
[Ramsey Smith]: so another thing that that sort of was was on my mind as i was thinking about

244
00:15:24,713 –> 00:15:31,833
[Ramsey Smith]: thinking about your index is just what kind of what kind of assets are ifly under

245
00:15:32,073 –> 00:15:37,353
[Ramsey Smith]: management or benchmarked to the nasdaq one hundred like can you give some idea

246
00:15:37,913 –> 00:15:44,953
[Ramsey Smith]: to the audience of the magnitude of of whether it’s an etfs or fis or if it’s in

247
00:15:45,113 –> 00:15:50,073
[Ramsey Smith]: mutual funds just even ballpark figures like how much how much money looks how

248
00:15:50,153 –> 00:15:53,673
[Ramsey Smith]: much money is out there that looks to the nasdaq one hundred as its key benchmark

249
00:15:53,753 –> 00:15:55,593
[Ramsey Smith]: in order just in orders of magnitude

250
00:15:56,836 –> 00:16:00,596
[Efram Slen]: there are hundreds of billions of dollars that that track the nasdaq one hundred

251
00:16:00,916 –> 00:16:04,916
[Efram Slen]: across pretty much every single financial product wrap that’s been created right

252
00:16:05,396 –> 00:16:13,396
[Efram Slen]: from etfs to mutual funds to insurance products utd products futures options you

253
00:16:13,556 –> 00:16:18,036
[Efram Slen]: think of a product there is an ass at one product tracking it in some capacity

254
00:16:18,276 –> 00:16:22,916
[Efram Slen]: some possibly even somewhere in the world right so there are efs in well over

255
00:16:23,156 –> 00:16:28,356
[Efram Slen]: twenty countries in the world alone let alone other product wrappers the eme

256
00:16:28,596 –> 00:16:30,836
[Efram Slen]: features that track the nad seven hundred have grown

257
00:16:30,916 –> 00:16:36,276
[Efram Slen]: explosively over the last couple years so and the micro mi launching out of the

258
00:16:31,060 –> 00:16:32,060
[Paul Tyler]: next

259
00:16:36,276 –> 00:16:37,796
[Efram Slen]: cme here as well so

260
00:16:37,460 –> 00:16:38,460
[Paul Tyler]: it’s

261
00:16:38,196 –> 00:16:43,316
[Efram Slen]: tons of derivative trading going on in very increased capacity the cues hit hit

262
00:16:43,476 –> 00:16:44,596
[Efram Slen]: over two hundred billion dollars

263
00:16:45,636 –> 00:16:52,116
[Efram Slen]: recently enough and approaching backup on the nih qs that’s the invest qq et f so

264
00:16:52,276 –> 00:16:56,356
[Efram Slen]: yeah just hundreds of billions of dollars that’s the short answer there

265
00:16:57,920 –> 00:16:59,280
[Paul Tyler]: it well go ahead

266
00:16:58,393 –> 00:17:03,833
[Ramsey Smith]: so i just kind of add quickly to that so the reason i brought that up is that you

267
00:17:03,833 –> 00:17:04,953
[Ramsey Smith]: know it’s somebody

268
00:17:06,153 –> 00:17:09,833
[Ramsey Smith]: who was in this space in my prior career like one of the challenges that

269
00:17:10,953 –> 00:17:14,233
[Ramsey Smith]: one of the tensions was always between alright you come up with something that’s

270
00:17:14,393 –> 00:17:20,153
[Ramsey Smith]: creative and customized it may work if you look at history but is it tradable on

271
00:17:20,153 –> 00:17:23,993
[Ramsey Smith]: the other side you’ve got you know you’ve got something like the nasdaq one

272
00:17:24,073 –> 00:17:27,593
[Ramsey Smith]: hundred and some other indices which are very tradable which ultimately in

273
00:17:27,673 –> 00:17:32,793
[Ramsey Smith]: addition to being recognizable also brings the ability to hedge efficiently

274
00:17:32,953 –> 00:17:37,513
[Ramsey Smith]: because behind every one of every transaction every fia purchase there’s a

275
00:17:37,513 –> 00:17:41,673
[Ramsey Smith]: hedging transaction so that’s something that i think is something that you

276
00:17:41,913 –> 00:17:44,553
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s not a question here just just a comment but i think

277
00:17:45,673 –> 00:17:46,713
[Ramsey Smith]: that is an important element

278
00:17:48,233 –> 00:17:51,353
[Ramsey Smith]: a of using a broad based indic index rather

279
00:17:52,713 –> 00:17:54,233
[Ramsey Smith]: in this in the fia space

280
00:17:54,916 –> 00:17:58,596
[Efram Slen]: i’ll even go on top of that and i i appreciate you saying that ramsay it’s great

281
00:17:58,996 –> 00:18:02,756
[Efram Slen]: this index has no they said launched nineteen eighty five is an over three seven

282
00:18:02,996 –> 00:18:06,196
[Efram Slen]: year track record right so the products have been around for quite a long time

283
00:18:06,356 –> 00:18:11,396
[Efram Slen]: like the cues launched in ‘ninety nine right and that’s again one of only saying

284
00:18:11,476 –> 00:18:15,396
[Efram Slen]: before many different products and product wrappers so yes having that track

285
00:18:15,476 –> 00:18:17,476
[Efram Slen]: record absolutely stands without question

286
00:18:16,973 –> 00:18:17,973
[Ramsey Smith]: really

287
00:18:19,920 –> 00:18:23,440
[Paul Tyler]: now well of course from a macro perspective

288
00:18:24,800 –> 00:18:28,560
[Paul Tyler]: we just get through covid only to have this awful war breakout

289
00:18:29,680 –> 00:18:33,760
[Paul Tyler]: in ukraine tell us how has this impacted the nasdaq one hundred

290
00:18:36,116 –> 00:18:41,476
[Efram Slen]: so it it hasn’t from a an actual inclusion perspective so there were no russian

291
00:18:41,876 –> 00:18:43,636
[Efram Slen]: equities in the nasdaq

292
00:18:44,676 –> 00:18:51,476
[Efram Slen]: one hundred but like many index providers out there like and p and m s c i fy

293
00:18:51,256 –> 00:18:52,256
[Efram Slen]: russell

294
00:18:53,636 –> 00:18:57,796
[Efram Slen]: all four of us actually put our announcements to remove russian equities from

295
00:18:57,956 –> 00:18:59,716
[Efram Slen]: from all over index benchmarks

296
00:19:00,960 –> 00:19:02,560
[Paul Tyler]: interesting so no no change no

297
00:19:03,760 –> 00:19:05,280
[Paul Tyler]: if i were sitting down with the client

298
00:19:06,400 –> 00:19:10,720
[Paul Tyler]: no company no russian company was in in nasdaq one one hundred that would have

299
00:19:10,700 –> 00:19:11,700
[Paul Tyler]: been pulled then

300
00:19:12,056 –> 00:19:13,056
[Efram Slen]: that’s correct

301
00:19:14,460 –> 00:19:15,460
[Paul Tyler]: okay interesting

302
00:19:19,913 –> 00:19:24,633
[Ramsey Smith]: so what are what do you see as sort of the the opportunity set in this space

303
00:19:24,953 –> 00:19:27,913
[Ramsey Smith]: broadly so just as as we mentioned before

304
00:19:28,953 –> 00:19:33,433
[Ramsey Smith]: a lot of people are getting get into the index game so you mentioned that there

305
00:19:33,513 –> 00:19:38,073
[Ramsey Smith]: are forty thousand just just you alone manage forty to forty five thousand in

306
00:19:38,213 –> 00:19:39,213
[Ramsey Smith]: indices is that right

307
00:19:40,173 –> 00:19:41,173
[Ramsey Smith]: well

308
00:19:40,676 –> 00:19:42,036
[Efram Slen]: that’s right that’s right

309
00:19:41,833 –> 00:19:45,433
[Ramsey Smith]: what what’s interesting to me is that i think they are only the last time i

310
00:19:45,593 –> 00:19:50,073
[Ramsey Smith]: checked there were like thirty five hundred stocks in the u s and the u s market

311
00:19:50,233 –> 00:19:53,593
[Ramsey Smith]: the wilshire five thousand doesn’t even cover five thousand stocks anymore back

312
00:19:53,753 –> 00:19:57,833
[Ramsey Smith]: when i started it had seven thousand in it right now now i think it has a lot

313
00:19:57,993 –> 00:20:03,193
[Ramsey Smith]: less so yeah i’m curious do you have a sense for what the future is

314
00:20:04,953 –> 00:20:07,753
[Ramsey Smith]: in indexes whether it’s broad based or more customized indices

315
00:20:09,033 –> 00:20:11,273
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s it’s been a remarkable proliferation

316
00:20:13,316 –> 00:20:16,516
[Efram Slen]: there absolutely has been um there are more and more ways to slice and dice

317
00:20:16,676 –> 00:20:21,396
[Efram Slen]: things than you can imagine so of the forty five thousand plus indexes that we

318
00:20:21,476 –> 00:20:25,236
[Efram Slen]: offer many of them actually go back to one index it’s is a global equity index

319
00:20:25,396 –> 00:20:28,996
[Efram Slen]: benchmark of around nine thousand global equities from developed in emerging

320
00:20:28,776 –> 00:20:29,776
[Efram Slen]: markets

321
00:20:30,596 –> 00:20:35,476
[Efram Slen]: that cover forty four countries i mentioned the exclusion exclusion of of russia

322
00:20:36,836 –> 00:20:42,756
[Efram Slen]: as well as a large mid small cap all cap large mid cap different currencies

323
00:20:42,916 –> 00:20:46,916
[Efram Slen]: different ways to calculate with and without dividends before you know it you’ve

324
00:20:46,996 –> 00:20:50,836
[Efram Slen]: got again we could do it on a far more the way we did it but the way we have it

325
00:20:50,916 –> 00:20:52,916
[Efram Slen]: today it’s is over forty around forty thousand or so

326
00:20:52,580 –> 00:20:53,580
[Paul Tyler]: just

327
00:20:53,076 –> 00:20:54,196
[Efram Slen]: indexes from one

328
00:20:55,316 –> 00:20:57,796
[Efram Slen]: basket of nine thousand names now think about that

329
00:20:57,373 –> 00:20:58,373
[Ramsey Smith]: mo

330
00:20:57,956 –> 00:21:01,796
[Efram Slen]: from from from how the way things have continued to evolve over the last even

331
00:21:02,036 –> 00:21:04,676
[Efram Slen]: fifteen years in the index space it started out

332
00:21:06,116 –> 00:21:10,916
[Efram Slen]: beyond fifteen years as just ways for folks to track the markets right so there

333
00:21:10,996 –> 00:21:14,756
[Efram Slen]: are only a handful of indexes that people really paid attention to indexes

334
00:21:14,836 –> 00:21:18,436
[Efram Slen]: continued to come to market just in the benchmark variety that are regular market

335
00:21:18,676 –> 00:21:23,556
[Efram Slen]: cap literally what is the world valuing these indexes as and then we start to

336
00:21:23,636 –> 00:21:27,156
[Efram Slen]: have some new indexes come to market right now were equal weighted there were

337
00:21:27,236 –> 00:21:28,996
[Efram Slen]: fundamentally weighted different ways to

338
00:21:28,893 –> 00:21:29,893
[Ramsey Smith]: maybe

339
00:21:29,476 –> 00:21:35,556
[Efram Slen]: track and and select and manage portfolios and then we started saying all right

340
00:21:35,716 –> 00:21:40,596
[Efram Slen]: well what are the active managers doing how can we try and get exposure in

341
00:21:40,756 –> 00:21:43,876
[Efram Slen]: returns that are like what active managing that’s when the rise of smart beta

342
00:21:44,036 –> 00:21:47,636
[Efram Slen]: came around and it was you know where factor indexes came about so folks were

343
00:21:47,716 –> 00:21:51,956
[Efram Slen]: focusing on far more than just value and growth there’s look at underpinning data

344
00:21:52,116 –> 00:21:55,636
[Efram Slen]: points from balance sheets and financial statements and saying well i want to

345
00:21:55,716 –> 00:21:59,316
[Efram Slen]: focus in around this data point so mark brought up before buybacks right we have

346
00:21:59,316 –> 00:22:04,276
[Efram Slen]: a buyback achiever index here we have many dividend based indexes here we have

347
00:22:04,356 –> 00:22:10,276
[Efram Slen]: many multi factor indexes that can look at a wide range of data points and then

348
00:22:10,436 –> 00:22:14,756
[Efram Slen]: over the last several years thematics has been the new rage right that’s where

349
00:22:14,916 –> 00:22:20,356
[Efram Slen]: folks have been digging into not technology or financials or health care it’s

350
00:22:20,756 –> 00:22:24,276
[Efram Slen]: fintech right it’s a smaller baske games that are focusing on like we said before

351
00:22:24,676 –> 00:22:29,636
[Efram Slen]: just just those specific names looking at names that are in cloud computing only

352
00:22:29,796 –> 00:22:34,596
[Efram Slen]: at cyber security only you’re only going to get thirty fifty maybe seventy names

353
00:22:34,596 –> 00:22:38,276
[Efram Slen]: at most in some of these thematic baskets if you’re really pushing up to seventy

354
00:22:38,416 –> 00:22:39,416
[Efram Slen]: sometimes far less

355
00:22:40,836 –> 00:22:44,436
[Efram Slen]: and again that’s what we’ve seen really things continue to evolve and it’s been

356
00:22:44,596 –> 00:22:48,276
[Efram Slen]: an awesome thing to be a part of been in nasdaq or

357
00:22:48,013 –> 00:22:49,013
[Ramsey Smith]: she

358
00:22:48,436 –> 00:22:53,156
[Efram Slen]: over eleven years it’s been a great ride watching frankly the continued growth

359
00:22:53,316 –> 00:22:54,516
[Efram Slen]: and maturation of the space

360
00:22:56,400 –> 00:23:00,800
[Paul Tyler]: interesting well yeah tell us just a little bit about both your background so a

361
00:23:01,120 –> 00:23:03,200
[Paul Tyler]: you’ve been at nasdaq for eleven years

362
00:23:04,640 –> 00:23:08,960
[Paul Tyler]: you know tell us what got you nasdaq you know what what keeps you

363
00:23:10,880 –> 00:23:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: totally engaged as we can tell in this in this space

364
00:23:15,876 –> 00:23:18,676
[Efram Slen]: i i just love frankly i i love coming to work working with

365
00:23:18,573 –> 00:23:19,573
[Ramsey Smith]: the

366
00:23:18,676 –> 00:23:22,436
[Efram Slen]: folks like mark working folks like wealthy who in the space where you have to

367
00:23:22,436 –> 00:23:25,956
[Efram Slen]: have conversations around around the markets around what we’ve got going on but

368
00:23:26,356 –> 00:23:30,596
[Efram Slen]: what my job really entails to today i’m responsible for all the research content

369
00:23:30,676 –> 00:23:32,996
[Efram Slen]: that we put out across our index business

370
00:23:34,116 –> 00:23:38,996
[Efram Slen]: so when i started here at nasdaq i was a combination of new index development as

371
00:23:39,076 –> 00:23:43,156
[Efram Slen]: well as putting our content supporting our business but today the roles evolved

372
00:23:43,156 –> 00:23:46,836
[Efram Slen]: and i’m responsible for to all content support supporting the index space here in

373
00:23:46,696 –> 00:23:47,696
[Efram Slen]: nasdaq

374
00:23:47,920 –> 00:23:50,960
[Paul Tyler]: yeah mark mark you your background and

375
00:23:52,240 –> 00:23:53,520
[Paul Tyler]: what excites you most about

376
00:23:54,640 –> 00:23:56,400
[Paul Tyler]: this particular space in the in the market

377
00:23:58,814 –> 00:23:59,814
[Mark Marex]: thanks

378
00:23:59,053 –> 00:24:00,053
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

379
00:24:00,434 –> 00:24:05,234
[Mark Marex]: yeah i mean i’m coming up on three years with nasdaq here and specifically with

380
00:24:05,174 –> 00:24:06,174
[Mark Marex]: ephram team

381
00:24:07,773 –> 00:24:08,773
[Ramsey Smith]: but

382
00:24:08,114 –> 00:24:14,034
[Mark Marex]: took a bit of more of a roundabout path to get here like ramsey i did my stint at

383
00:24:08,114 –> 00:24:14,034
[Mark Marex]: took a bit of more of a roundabout path to get here like ramsey i did my stint at

384
00:24:14,114 –> 00:24:19,234
[Mark Marex]: a big new york bank for about eight years in my case city coming out of college

385
00:24:14,114 –> 00:24:19,234
[Mark Marex]: a big new york bank for about eight years in my case city coming out of college

386
00:24:19,794 –> 00:24:24,354
[Mark Marex]: and my last role there was in sort of a client strategy and analytics role within

387
00:24:19,794 –> 00:24:24,354
[Mark Marex]: and my last role there was in sort of a client strategy and analytics role within

388
00:24:24,134 –> 00:24:25,134
[Mark Marex]: ib d

389
00:24:24,134 –> 00:24:25,134
[Mark Marex]: ib d

390
00:24:26,114 –> 00:24:31,634
[Mark Marex]: but really you know for a long part of that time at city my passion was elsewhere

391
00:24:32,034 –> 00:24:34,754
[Mark Marex]: and more in the realm of asset management

392
00:24:35,794 –> 00:24:38,514
[Mark Marex]: and specifically systematic strategy

393
00:24:39,414 –> 00:24:40,414
[Mark Marex]: research

394
00:24:40,994 –> 00:24:46,994
[Mark Marex]: and creation and execution that led me to launching a startup fund with a close

395
00:24:47,154 –> 00:24:52,674
[Mark Marex]: colleague of mine to trade u s equities long short on a very systematic basis

396
00:24:52,914 –> 00:24:58,194
[Mark Marex]: right and you know very risky endeavor didn’t end up working out long term but

397
00:24:58,354 –> 00:25:04,034
[Mark Marex]: really kind of cemented my desire to stay within that general space of you know

398
00:25:04,194 –> 00:25:06,674
[Mark Marex]: how do you design launch and then support

399
00:25:06,893 –> 00:25:07,893
[Ramsey Smith]: so

400
00:25:07,634 –> 00:25:08,914
[Mark Marex]: systematic strategies

401
00:25:10,274 –> 00:25:14,034
[Mark Marex]: that are data driven that are you know kind of fully transparent that offers

402
00:25:13,934 –> 00:25:14,934
[Mark Marex]: something unique

403
00:25:15,954 –> 00:25:17,554
[Mark Marex]: and i found that nasdaq

404
00:25:18,594 –> 00:25:23,554
[Mark Marex]: value proposition was very compelling from the perspective of you know it has

405
00:25:23,714 –> 00:25:29,314
[Mark Marex]: this industry leading index business that is very much underpinned just like s

406
00:25:29,394 –> 00:25:34,194
[Mark Marex]: and p right or m sci underpinned by this flagship product that everybody almost

407
00:25:34,434 –> 00:25:36,354
[Mark Marex]: everybody knows and has such a great

408
00:25:37,874 –> 00:25:41,394
[Mark Marex]: reputation in terms of the nasdaq one hundred but then you have all these other

409
00:25:41,554 –> 00:25:46,434
[Mark Marex]: interesting things going on under the hood that people you know outside of nasdaq

410
00:25:46,514 –> 00:25:50,754
[Mark Marex]: will really not have any idea about right things like designing indexes with

411
00:25:50,834 –> 00:25:56,594
[Mark Marex]: embedded options whether that is using options to juice your yield or to provide

412
00:25:56,914 –> 00:26:01,154
[Mark Marex]: downside protection or to minimize volatility on something like the nasdaq one

413
00:26:01,314 –> 00:26:02,594
[Mark Marex]: hundred you know we do that

414
00:26:03,794 –> 00:26:09,394
[Mark Marex]: as era mentioned the thematic space that’s been such a great source of creativity

415
00:26:10,754 –> 00:26:15,234
[Mark Marex]: and trying to figure out ways of how do you define a new industry that is driven

416
00:26:15,314 –> 00:26:20,354
[Mark Marex]: by a single technological breakthrough do you go peer play do you go uh sort of

417
00:26:20,434 –> 00:26:23,874
[Mark Marex]: broad based in coverage with that and working with clients every day to figure

418
00:26:24,114 –> 00:26:29,794
[Mark Marex]: out how do we design an index from the ground up that is rules based that is

419
00:26:30,034 –> 00:26:32,434
[Mark Marex]: transparent that is reputable and invest

420
00:26:33,574 –> 00:26:34,574
[Mark Marex]: it’s a

421
00:26:33,940 –> 00:26:34,940
[Paul Tyler]: my

422
00:26:34,354 –> 00:26:38,034
[Mark Marex]: great challenge because there’s no single right answer but i feel like we have

423
00:26:38,194 –> 00:26:41,954
[Mark Marex]: these guidelines these principles that move us in the direction of

424
00:26:42,994 –> 00:26:47,074
[Mark Marex]: putting out market leading products whether it’s thematic whether it’s smart beta

425
00:26:47,314 –> 00:26:50,434
[Mark Marex]: or something else day in and day out and that’s really exciting

426
00:26:49,920 –> 00:26:54,640
[Paul Tyler]: excellent okay so for ramsay and i have an appointment with a client i guess at

427
00:26:54,720 –> 00:26:58,080
[Paul Tyler]: two thirty we’ve got two hours to prep for this for ramsey and

428
00:26:59,700 –> 00:27:00,700
[Paul Tyler]: oh my

429
00:27:00,133 –> 00:27:01,133
[Ramsey Smith]: oh my go

430
00:27:00,400 –> 00:27:04,720
[Paul Tyler]: gosh i’ve gotta explain the nasdaq one hundred what what’s the best place to go

431
00:27:05,280 –> 00:27:09,760
[Paul Tyler]: to learn enough that i can actually represent your index and you know the the

432
00:27:09,840 –> 00:27:14,960
[Paul Tyler]: mechanics and and what’s you know and and the the stocks inside it so that i can

433
00:27:14,820 –> 00:27:15,820
[Paul Tyler]: give somebody

434
00:27:16,720 –> 00:27:22,000
[Paul Tyler]: who’s trusting me a good understanding of where their money is

435
00:27:23,280 –> 00:27:25,680
[Paul Tyler]: what their money is going to earn interest credits against

436
00:27:26,916 –> 00:27:30,916
[Efram Slen]: so there are a few spots where we have kind of content around the nasdaq one one

437
00:27:30,916 –> 00:27:34,996
[Efram Slen]: hundred so i’ll give you kind of both both locations and and landing pages so one

438
00:27:35,156 –> 00:27:41,636
[Efram Slen]: is nasdaq com backlash nasdaq dash one hundred the other one it’s a little bit

439
00:27:41,716 –> 00:27:46,996
[Efram Slen]: harder to find but perfectly perfectly honest but if you go to indexes nasma com

440
00:27:47,396 –> 00:27:52,356
[Efram Slen]: and you go in the search bar and look for nd x n dx which is the index ticker for

441
00:27:52,356 –> 00:27:56,516
[Efram Slen]: the nasa of one hundred or just type in nasa gash one hundred you scroll down and

442
00:27:56,596 –> 00:28:00,036
[Efram Slen]: be able to find get on that page and able to see kind of all the great content

443
00:28:00,036 –> 00:28:01,876
[Efram Slen]: there that we have around around the index

444
00:28:02,640 –> 00:28:07,120
[Paul Tyler]: oh that’s great thanks ramsey any final thoughts or questions this is your this

445
00:28:06,940 –> 00:28:07,940
[Paul Tyler]: is your space

446
00:28:07,993 –> 00:28:12,553
[Ramsey Smith]: so just just one one quick question so you’ve got forty forty thousand plus

447
00:28:12,793 –> 00:28:17,273
[Ramsey Smith]: indices and it sounds like you you know you interact very proactively with your

448
00:28:17,913 –> 00:28:22,793
[Ramsey Smith]: your clients you know i’m wondering sort of what are the various ways they it can

449
00:28:22,873 –> 00:28:26,793
[Ramsey Smith]: interact with you could a could some entity it could be an insurance company

450
00:28:27,033 –> 00:28:31,513
[Ramsey Smith]: could be a bank it could could be a dis an insurance distributor right can they

451
00:28:31,593 –> 00:28:33,433
[Ramsey Smith]: come to you and and

452
00:28:34,553 –> 00:28:38,393
[Ramsey Smith]: work with you to develop their own custom index that they can launch on their

453
00:28:38,633 –> 00:28:42,953
[Ramsey Smith]: product i guess it’s do you go which way do you go is it inquiry reverse increase

454
00:28:43,193 –> 00:28:47,113
[Ramsey Smith]: can you go both ways i’m just curious how how people can engage with you to

455
00:28:48,153 –> 00:28:49,353
[Ramsey Smith]: to create unique product

456
00:28:50,196 –> 00:28:54,036
[Efram Slen]: it’s absolutely both but our our favorites actually the one that’s in between

457
00:28:54,436 –> 00:28:57,796
[Efram Slen]: where it’s together right where we come together and say we have an idea and they

458
00:28:57,796 –> 00:29:01,556
[Efram Slen]: have an idea we come together we work together create the final solution for me

459
00:29:01,636 –> 00:29:04,676
[Efram Slen]: that’s the most exciting that i’ve been a part of and i know the team kind of

460
00:29:04,676 –> 00:29:08,116
[Efram Slen]: loves here of course it’s great when someone has their own view and we help them

461
00:29:08,276 –> 00:29:11,476
[Efram Slen]: get that out in the market or we have our own view we get that in the market my

462
00:29:11,556 –> 00:29:15,236
[Efram Slen]: favorite though is when everybody comes together and we’re able to create that

463
00:29:15,396 –> 00:29:17,796
[Efram Slen]: bin kind of thought into a final index solution

464
00:29:19,600 –> 00:29:23,600
[Paul Tyler]: okay well hey well listen uh after mark thanks for your time with the links

465
00:29:25,120 –> 00:29:29,280
[Paul Tyler]: in the show notes and really appreciate your time maybe we can another time we

466
00:29:29,360 –> 00:29:31,840
[Paul Tyler]: can actually come down to the the floor when it’s

467
00:29:32,960 –> 00:29:36,960
[Paul Tyler]: know we get through this whole covid and record a show there love to love to do

468
00:29:37,040 –> 00:29:38,240
[Paul Tyler]: that in new york sometim

469
00:29:38,013 –> 00:29:39,013
[Ramsey Smith]: sh

470
00:29:38,480 –> 00:29:39,840
[Paul Tyler]: so alright

471
00:29:39,716 –> 00:29:41,476
[Efram Slen]: that’d be awesome we’ll have have to do that

472
00:29:41,040 –> 00:29:46,320
[Paul Tyler]: listen yeah all right hey thanks so much ramsey thanks and uh joins you next week

473
00:29:46,293 –> 00:29:47,293
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

474
00:29:46,480 –> 00:29:48,880
[Paul Tyler]: for another episode of that annuity show

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 142: Everything You Wanted to Know About the Nasdaq-100 With Efram Slen and Mark Marex
read more

Listening To The Best And The Brightest by Jack Sharry

No comments

I built my career on listening. I especially enjoy good storytellers. With the pandemic making conversations harder to have, I launched a podcast, WealthTech on Deck. Then I invited the brightest leaders in our industry to share their perspectives on the confluence of technology and human advice and the epic disruption in financial advice today.

Sixty guests, 3,600 listeners, 9,600 downloads and 50 episodes later, here are some lessons this listener learned.

1. Investors want to maximize retirement income. Now. People are turning 65 at the rate of 10,000 a day, rising to 12,000 in a few years. The pandemic accelerated retirements. As advisors know well: The demand for services to maximize retirement income is white-hot.

Our industry knew this was coming for years. Still, its response was more focused on producing great products than answering every retiree’s questions: How do I secure a retirement paycheck from my multiple accounts, products, custodians and advisors? And how do I make sure that I don’t outlive my assets?

Len Reinhart, the founder of Lockwood Advisors and arguably the founder of the advisory industry, wrote a paper on this 20 years ago. He explained that investors and advisors would benefit by coordinating all assets, managing household portfolios and achieving alpha by addressing cost, risk and taxes.

“When we talk about moving from accumulation to decumulation, it really is the time for the portfolios to be working in concert with each other as an orchestra, instead of being managed in pieces,” said Rose Palazzo, former head of financial planning at Morgan Stanley, now Group Head at Envestnet|MoneyGuide.

John Thiel, former head of wealth management at Merrill Lynch, said: “We need to have a decumulation strategy that is simple, direct … consumable, and that people can execute in a relatively simple and easy way.”

Now that the number of retirements is hitting record highs, firms are spending billions in the race to build comprehensive advice platforms to achieve what Reinhart described two decades ago.

2. Defined contribution/401(k) fintechs are winning the battle for new clients. The workplace is the new financial advice lobby. Ed Murphy, CEO of Empower, and Aaron Schumm, CEO of Vestwell, are two leaders who have found fertile ground in defined contribution plans and participants.

Empower is now the No. 2 record keeper behind Fidelity. Both firms work closely with advisors and wealth management firms. Empower bought Personal Capital as it looks to capture eventual rollovers down the road.

What Empower, Vestwell and others have latched onto is the fact that individuals often develop their first investment relationship at work often through a 401(k). “Seventy-five percent of individuals, the first dollar they ever save is through the workplace,” Schumm said.

That spells “opportunity” as investors climb the salary ladder, and invest more. Both Empower and Vestwell work with firms, such as Morgan Stanley, that recognize if they earn the trust of workplace savers, they can win them over as wealth management clients.

“There are 128 million mass affluent households, and many are underserved today,” Murphy said, adding, “those customers have real needs, whether it’s retirement, college savings or emergency savings.”

3. Find your inner Ted Lasso because advisors’ hats will say, ‘Coach.’ We know how intertwined money is with hopes and dreams. Financial advisors have tended to focus on investment strategies. But clients expect much more than that today, several guests told me.

Both Frank McAleer and Steve Gresham talked to me about the disconnect between what investors want—and what advisors are equipped to give. Their biggest questions are about health care and outliving their money.

Read more on Financial Advisor: https://www.fa-mag.com/news/listening-to-the-best-and-the-brightest-67117.html 

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersListening To The Best And The Brightest by Jack Sharry
read more

TIPS and Annuities Good Bets When Inflation Is High with Wade Pfau

No comments

Higher inflation means advisors need to be more efficient in positioning client assets for retirement, says Wade Pfau, professor of retirement income at the American College of Financial Services and a prolific author, his most recent book being the “Retirement Planning Guidebook.” He also writes the Retirement Research blog with Bob French and Alex Murguia.

In our ongoing VIP series, Pfau noted that using reserve funds was a good way for retirees to get through this higher inflationary period. Here are his responses to our series of questions.

Inflation has jumped 7.9% over the last 12 months. How would you counsel advisors to prepare clients for either pre- or post-retirement portfolios with this threat? What are the best options now?

Higher inflation requires being more efficient with positioning assets for retirement expenses. Rather than using traditional bonds, [Treasury inflation-protected securities] will help manage high inflation, and annuities with lifetime income can provide an extra kicker beyond the bond interest alone. A well-diversified investment portfolio, over time, provides opportunity to keep pace with inflation.

The Social Security COLA, which was raised to 5.9% this year, is now lagging current inflation rates. What is the best way for advisors to help retirees to counteract the crunch they are taking to their Social Security benefits (especially if they already are collecting benefits)?

Right, the COLAs only happen once a year and so start to lag inflation throughout the year. If some reserve funds are set aside for unanticipated expenses, higher than expected inflation could be a valid use for such funds.

What is your opinion on whether the COLA index should be changed from CPI-W to CPI-Elderly? 

I think this is a relatively minor issue and not a pressing need.

Do you believe that Congress will step up and make changes to Social Security, including making the appropriate funding, in the next couple years? Why or why not?

I don’t think we can expect Congress to act on Social Security until we get closer to the deadline when action will be needed, which is still not expected to happen until the early 2030s.

As Seen on ThinkAdvisor at https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2022/03/31/wade-pfau-tips-and-annuities-good-bets-when-inflation-is-high/

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersTIPS and Annuities Good Bets When Inflation Is High with Wade Pfau
read more

Episode 141: Diving Deeper Into The Qualified Default Investment Alternative Market With Tamiko Toland

No comments
Since the passage of the SECURE Act, we’ve all been talking a lot more about the institutional annuity market. However, Tamiko Toland with CANNEX has been working hard to build this business for a long time. Today we talk with her about the real opportunities and obstacles to bringing guaranteed income to a wider segment of the population.
Also, do you want to get regular updates on news about guests of our show? Enter your email under “Receive Updates” to subscribe to our newsletter.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Links mentioned today:

 Listen

 Watch

Receive Updates



Show Sponsors

Transcript

1
00:00:02,000 –> 00:00:07,680
[Paul Tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of that annuity show and

2
00:00:08,000 –> 00:00:09,360
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey good to see you

3
00:00:09,758 –> 00:00:10,758
[Ramsey Smith]: always glad to be here

4
00:00:11,860 –> 00:00:12,860
[Paul Tyler]: and we have a

5
00:00:14,080 –> 00:00:18,000
[Paul Tyler]: almost regular guest returning guest do you wanna do you wanna do the intro here

6
00:00:18,498 –> 00:00:25,138
[Ramsey Smith]: sure so time ago i think this is this is at least your third time here and um you

7
00:00:25,138 –> 00:00:28,098
[Ramsey Smith]: know we should do something like on saturday night live like when you get on when

8
00:00:28,098 –> 00:00:31,058
[Ramsey Smith]: you host for five times you get like a jacket or something like that so we’re

9
00:00:32,258 –> 00:00:35,218
[Ramsey Smith]: so third time i think end counting right

10
00:00:36,338 –> 00:00:42,738
[Ramsey Smith]: delighted to have you back for those of you who don’t know Tamiko Toland she is the

11
00:00:43,138 –> 00:00:50,418
[Ramsey Smith]: director of retirement markets at k x k x is a leading provider of data for the

12
00:00:50,498 –> 00:00:53,938
[Ramsey Smith]: insurance life insurance industry and the annuity industry in particular

13
00:00:54,978 –> 00:00:57,138
[Ramsey Smith]: and Tamiko’s influence

14
00:00:58,258 –> 00:01:02,818
[Ramsey Smith]: is really remarkable it spans retail and increasingly institutional and that’s

15
00:01:02,898 –> 00:01:04,738
[Ramsey Smith]: what we’re going to spend a lot of time talking about

16
00:01:04,284 –> 00:01:05,284
[Tamiko Toland]: so

17
00:01:04,638 –> 00:01:05,638
[Ramsey Smith]: today is

18
00:01:06,738 –> 00:01:11,058
[Ramsey Smith]: a lot a lot of the progress that’s going on in what is probably the biggest

19
00:01:11,218 –> 00:01:13,058
[Ramsey Smith]: opportunity in the guaranteed income space

20
00:01:13,404 –> 00:01:14,404
[Tamiko Toland]: space

21
00:01:13,478 –> 00:01:14,478
[Ramsey Smith]: and

22
00:01:15,378 –> 00:01:20,498
[Ramsey Smith]: the core work that Tamiko her team and her affiliates to doing to get us

23
00:01:20,658 –> 00:01:21,858
[Ramsey Smith]: there so with that Tamiko

24
00:01:21,004 –> 00:01:22,004
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s not something

25
00:01:22,978 –> 00:01:25,778
[Ramsey Smith]: tell us about some of the things that you’ve been you’ve been up to lately

26
00:01:26,524 –> 00:01:27,524
[Tamiko Toland]: sure

27
00:01:27,260 –> 00:01:28,260
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know you

28
00:01:27,864 –> 00:01:32,504
[Tamiko Toland]: so before i i dive right into the four one key space i’ll

29
00:01:32,180 –> 00:01:33,180
[Paul Tyler]: i

30
00:01:32,744 –> 00:01:35,784
[Tamiko Toland]: mention a couple pieces that came out recently

31
00:01:36,984 –> 00:01:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: and one was for investments and wealth monitor and it’s

32
00:01:41,680 –> 00:01:42,960
[Paul Tyler]: it about nine

33
00:01:41,704 –> 00:01:45,384
[Tamiko Toland]: really just about the validity of replacing

34
00:01:46,664 –> 00:01:52,344
[Tamiko Toland]: some or all the fixed income allocation and retirement with a guaranteed income

35
00:01:52,664 –> 00:01:57,464
[Tamiko Toland]: source and i say it like that because we did the research on based on spa but you

36
00:01:57,544 –> 00:02:00,424
[Tamiko Toland]: can replace other annuities as well so but still always

37
00:02:00,020 –> 00:02:01,020
[Paul Tyler]: so

38
00:02:00,604 –> 00:02:01,604
[Tamiko Toland]: annuities but

39
00:02:01,220 –> 00:02:02,220
[Paul Tyler]: but

40
00:02:01,924 –> 00:02:02,924
[Tamiko Toland]: that this actually

41
00:02:02,500 –> 00:02:03,500
[Paul Tyler]: i

42
00:02:03,144 –> 00:02:08,984
[Tamiko Toland]: improves outcomes um both in terms of income sustainability and

43
00:02:09,060 –> 00:02:10,060
[Paul Tyler]: get what

44
00:02:09,224 –> 00:02:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: actually legacy which is i th

45
00:02:11,760 –> 00:02:12,880
[Paul Tyler]: i i feel like that’s

46
00:02:11,864 –> 00:02:14,584
[Tamiko Toland]: i feel like that’s a sort of the hidden story um

47
00:02:14,420 –> 00:02:15,420
[Paul Tyler]: else

48
00:02:14,824 –> 00:02:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: when it comes to guaranteed income that we act

49
00:02:17,380 –> 00:02:18,380
[Paul Tyler]: y

50
00:02:17,784 –> 00:02:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: like it’s it’ going to make legacy worse but anyway so another

51
00:02:21,060 –> 00:02:22,060
[Paul Tyler]: another

52
00:02:21,464 –> 00:02:25,144
[Tamiko Toland]: piece uh that i’ve done recently is uh for the journal of pension benefits and it

53
00:02:25,144 –> 00:02:28,984
[Tamiko Toland]: is on the topic of four hundred thousand that’s been a huge focus of mine over

54
00:02:29,064 –> 00:02:34,344
[Tamiko Toland]: the last couple of years and we’re very excited to be involved in the lifetime

55
00:02:34,424 –> 00:02:38,664
[Tamiko Toland]: income consortium where we’re really going to be focusing on this topic with a

56
00:02:38,744 –> 00:02:40,344
[Tamiko Toland]: group of member companies

57
00:02:41,464 –> 00:02:46,024
[Tamiko Toland]: this the administrative home for this is broad ridge fi three hundred sixty

58
00:02:46,104 –> 00:02:48,744
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions and we’re also working with another

59
00:02:50,184 –> 00:02:56,664
[Tamiko Toland]: friend of the show michelle rector at fiduciary insurance uh services and so yeah

60
00:02:56,904 –> 00:02:59,144
[Tamiko Toland]: happy to talk about any and all that

61
00:03:00,180 –> 00:03:01,180
[Paul Tyler]: excellent

62
00:03:02,160 –> 00:03:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: four one k has been a really interesting topic over a number of years actually

63
00:03:07,680 –> 00:03:13,200
[Paul Tyler]: years ramsey remember i think we did a podcast way back when episode number seven

64
00:03:13,360 –> 00:03:15,600
[Paul Tyler]: if you want to look and i think when the secure act came out

65
00:03:16,720 –> 00:03:19,520
[Paul Tyler]: and you think okay two years what’s happened

66
00:03:20,720 –> 00:03:23,200
[Paul Tyler]: a lot of companies have sort of

67
00:03:24,540 –> 00:03:25,540
[Paul Tyler]: looked at this opportunity

68
00:03:26,480 –> 00:03:30,080
[Paul Tyler]: we see some entrances i’ll leave you know rams you can sort of talk about the

69
00:03:29,700 –> 00:03:30,700
[Paul Tyler]: industry

70
00:03:29,964 –> 00:03:30,964
[Tamiko Toland]: sometimes

71
00:03:30,480 –> 00:03:34,080
[Paul Tyler]: landscape but just in the last like two days i’ve had some real

72
00:03:33,804 –> 00:03:34,804
[Tamiko Toland]: so

73
00:03:34,240 –> 00:03:35,760
[Paul Tyler]: interesting inbounds to i

74
00:03:37,280 –> 00:03:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: one was uh you know a writer for for forbes chris caruso saying looking for

75
00:03:41,940 –> 00:03:42,940
[Paul Tyler]: people’s

76
00:03:44,480 –> 00:03:51,520
[Paul Tyler]: answers to a question of what will really make this sales happen in the k space

77
00:03:53,120 –> 00:03:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: i’ll talk to some other questions again but let’s just kind of throw that out

78
00:03:55,780 –> 00:03:56,780
[Paul Tyler]: what will

79
00:03:57,920 –> 00:04:02,800
[Paul Tyler]: or what won’t make uh annuities and four hundred one ks work i don’t know which

80
00:04:02,880 –> 00:04:04,720
[Paul Tyler]: way you want to take it ramsay don’t know

81
00:04:06,338 –> 00:04:10,578
[Ramsey Smith]: well i’m taking notes ’cause as you mentioned this is this is an area of primary

82
00:04:10,718 –> 00:04:11,718
[Ramsey Smith]: focus for

83
00:04:11,540 –> 00:04:12,540
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

84
00:04:11,938 –> 00:04:16,418
[Ramsey Smith]: for me and my in my company and and uh i i have i have some theories

85
00:04:17,458 –> 00:04:23,458
[Ramsey Smith]: and very interested to hear tom’s input give me some idea about at least what

86
00:04:23,538 –> 00:04:26,818
[Ramsey Smith]: we’ve tabulated in terms of i’ll call it deals announced

87
00:04:26,820 –> 00:04:27,820
[Paul Tyler]: what

88
00:04:27,378 –> 00:04:32,498
[Ramsey Smith]: right and and they’re in various stages of actual execution but we recently added

89
00:04:32,578 –> 00:04:36,738
[Ramsey Smith]: up all everything we could find in the press and there’s something like sixty

90
00:04:36,738 –> 00:04:38,418
[Ramsey Smith]: billion dollars worth of announcements

91
00:04:39,618 –> 00:04:41,218
[Ramsey Smith]: you know that are in in in the space

92
00:04:41,304 –> 00:04:42,904
[Tamiko Toland]: that was so that’s

93
00:04:41,698 –> 00:04:45,378
[Ramsey Smith]: so’s not that’s not that’s not huge given the seven trillion opportunity

94
00:04:45,004 –> 00:04:46,004
[Tamiko Toland]: so

95
00:04:45,538 –> 00:04:50,178
[Ramsey Smith]: but it’s not insignificant and my guess is it will continue to grow but how we

96
00:04:50,338 –> 00:04:54,098
[Ramsey Smith]: get there that’s what tomic is going to share with us so so what do you think

97
00:04:52,800 –> 00:04:56,640
[Paul Tyler]: yes maybe tom yeah start with what won’t try i don’t know

98
00:04:56,438 –> 00:04:57,438
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

99
00:04:57,040 –> 00:04:59,200
[Paul Tyler]: i’m fascinated to get your your impression

100
00:05:00,824 –> 00:05:06,984
[Tamiko Toland]: well i i’m gonna take a step back about a decade um in two thousand twelve i

101
00:05:07,064 –> 00:05:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: actually wrote a report on in planned guarantees when i was at strategic insight

102
00:05:11,564 –> 00:05:12,564
[Tamiko Toland]: because

103
00:05:12,264 –> 00:05:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: it was a very hot topic and it was about

104
00:05:12,320 –> 00:05:13,600
[Paul Tyler]: you think read

105
00:05:15,540 –> 00:05:16,540
[Paul Tyler]: so

106
00:05:16,744 –> 00:05:23,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to explode right we all felt like this is necessary it’s beneficial um to

107
00:05:23,704 –> 00:05:27,464
[Tamiko Toland]: participants right in particular like that’s where a lot of the conversation

108
00:05:27,724 –> 00:05:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: focuses

109
00:05:29,164 –> 00:05:30,164
[Tamiko Toland]: and

110
00:05:29,380 –> 00:05:30,380
[Paul Tyler]: is

111
00:05:31,004 –> 00:05:32,004
[Tamiko Toland]: there

112
00:05:31,500 –> 00:05:32,500
[Paul Tyler]: you were a lot

113
00:05:31,624 –> 00:05:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: were a lot of different companies that were coming out

114
00:05:35,140 –> 00:05:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: no

115
00:05:35,524 –> 00:05:36,524
[Tamiko Toland]: with initiatives

116
00:05:36,720 –> 00:05:37,840
[Paul Tyler]: i i have one

117
00:05:37,064 –> 00:05:39,224
[Tamiko Toland]: that were going to make a big difference and they were really

118
00:05:39,220 –> 00:05:40,220
[Paul Tyler]: i

119
00:05:39,384 –> 00:05:41,944
[Tamiko Toland]: designing around the challenges and

120
00:05:41,540 –> 00:05:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

121
00:05:42,264 –> 00:05:44,184
[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the big one at that time

122
00:05:43,280 –> 00:05:44,480
[Paul Tyler]: big one time

123
00:05:44,924 –> 00:05:45,924
[Tamiko Toland]: was

124
00:05:45,540 –> 00:05:46,540
[Paul Tyler]: play

125
00:05:45,624 –> 00:05:49,144
[Tamiko Toland]: eins bernstein and the lifetime income strategy which they

126
00:05:48,820 –> 00:05:49,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

127
00:05:49,224 –> 00:05:54,344
[Tamiko Toland]: actually did get placed as a qa and i’ll explain that a that as a qualified

128
00:05:54,100 –> 00:05:55,100
[Paul Tyler]: place

129
00:05:54,744 –> 00:05:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: default’ investment

130
00:05:57,784 –> 00:06:00,664
[Tamiko Toland]: alternative right and so this is where

131
00:05:59,440 –> 00:06:04,640
[Paul Tyler]: wow that was great great branding qualified default wow okay sorry

132
00:06:04,424 –> 00:06:06,104
[Tamiko Toland]: well it is cause it’s a default

133
00:06:05,860 –> 00:06:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: yes

134
00:06:06,584 –> 00:06:09,864
[Tamiko Toland]: right and this has everything to do with the

135
00:06:11,704 –> 00:06:17,464
[Tamiko Toland]: all the money in motion um within four o one k plans i mean the target date fund

136
00:06:17,624 –> 00:06:23,864
[Tamiko Toland]: has become the mainstay and it is because of their use as a q dia right and all

137
00:06:24,024 –> 00:06:26,504
[Tamiko Toland]: these things are are completely related but

138
00:06:26,340 –> 00:06:27,340
[Paul Tyler]: but it might

139
00:06:26,664 –> 00:06:28,184
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s funny because you know at the time

140
00:06:29,944 –> 00:06:31,704
[Tamiko Toland]: i did this research it was more

141
00:06:31,780 –> 00:06:32,780
[Paul Tyler]: walk

142
00:06:32,184 –> 00:06:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: qualitative research where i talked to folks who were involved and collected

143
00:06:36,984 –> 00:06:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: information about the different solutions that were out there and so forth and i

144
00:06:40,504 –> 00:06:43,544
[Tamiko Toland]: said okay well you know this is foundational and then we’re gonna be you know

145
00:06:43,704 –> 00:06:47,624
[Tamiko Toland]: going up from here and then it just seemed to stall out and

146
00:06:47,620 –> 00:06:48,620
[Paul Tyler]: wa

147
00:06:47,864 –> 00:06:53,544
[Tamiko Toland]: despite the efforts with lines burning in their success with the uc plan which is

148
00:06:53,624 –> 00:06:58,824
[Tamiko Toland]: now part of raytheon so people refer to it as raytheon because they did implement

149
00:06:58,444 –> 00:06:59,444
[Tamiko Toland]: it

150
00:07:00,060 –> 00:07:01,060
[Paul Tyler]: yeah it

151
00:07:00,264 –> 00:07:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s been very successful as such it’s they’ve continued and and full

152
00:07:04,424 –> 00:07:07,064
[Tamiko Toland]: disclosure they are a client of ours so

153
00:07:08,344 –> 00:07:12,744
[Tamiko Toland]: you know so what’s happened in the last decade why hasn’t it taken off and i

154
00:07:12,824 –> 00:07:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: think there are probably a thousand different smaller reasons

155
00:07:16,684 –> 00:07:17,684
[Tamiko Toland]: and

156
00:07:17,300 –> 00:07:18,300
[Paul Tyler]: that would

157
00:07:17,624 –> 00:07:19,144
[Tamiko Toland]: that was one of the the um

158
00:07:20,020 –> 00:07:21,020
[Paul Tyler]: that

159
00:07:20,344 –> 00:07:27,144
[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the

160
00:07:20,344 –> 00:07:27,144
[Tamiko Toland]: facts that led me to believe that the secure act alone wasn’t going to change the

161
00:07:26,764 –> 00:07:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: story

162
00:07:26,764 –> 00:07:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: story

163
00:07:27,860 –> 00:07:28,860
[Paul Tyler]: excuse

164
00:07:28,344 –> 00:07:32,184
[Tamiko Toland]: and we really pen a lot of the changes on the secure act and i i i do think it’s

165
00:07:32,344 –> 00:07:34,984
[Tamiko Toland]: helpful and it’s certainly um beneficial

166
00:07:36,024 –> 00:07:38,904
[Tamiko Toland]: but the reality is that there are a lot of other um

167
00:07:40,164 –> 00:07:41,164
[Tamiko Toland]: like through

168
00:07:40,820 –> 00:07:41,820
[Paul Tyler]: like

169
00:07:41,144 –> 00:07:44,184
[Tamiko Toland]: lines in the industry that are coming together and

170
00:07:44,580 –> 00:07:45,580
[Paul Tyler]: i

171
00:07:44,984 –> 00:07:46,664
[Tamiko Toland]: i kind of want to get to

172
00:07:48,024 –> 00:07:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: why is it that plan sponsors

173
00:07:51,140 –> 00:07:52,140
[Paul Tyler]: you really

174
00:07:51,784 –> 00:07:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: really need to consider adoption of

175
00:07:54,820 –> 00:07:55,820
[Paul Tyler]: like

176
00:07:55,064 –> 00:07:57,784
[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income it because it the ultimate reason

177
00:07:57,660 –> 00:07:58,660
[Paul Tyler]: thank you

178
00:07:57,944 –> 00:08:02,664
[Tamiko Toland]: is not altruistic you know we don’t companies don’t have this paternalistic

179
00:08:02,744 –> 00:08:06,984
[Tamiko Toland]: attitude in general like we need to take care of people obviously we know the

180
00:08:07,064 –> 00:08:09,784
[Tamiko Toland]: trend that pensions are dissipating and they’re being

181
00:08:09,944 –> 00:08:14,664
[Tamiko Toland]: replaced by dc so naturally we need to include some kind of income solution as

182
00:08:10,160 –> 00:08:11,200
[Paul Tyler]: like like yeah

183
00:08:14,764 –> 00:08:15,764
[Tamiko Toland]: part of so

184
00:08:15,620 –> 00:08:16,620
[Paul Tyler]: why not

185
00:08:15,864 –> 00:08:17,464
[Tamiko Toland]: why hasn’t it happened why

186
00:08:17,420 –> 00:08:18,420
[Paul Tyler]: he get

187
00:08:17,704 –> 00:08:19,784
[Tamiko Toland]: is it going to suddenly happen i

188
00:08:19,864 –> 00:08:23,064
[Tamiko Toland]: mean frankly in terms of the economic environment

189
00:08:19,920 –> 00:08:21,040
[Paul Tyler]: she frankly

190
00:08:24,184 –> 00:08:27,864
[Tamiko Toland]: um when people are facing uncertainty and

191
00:08:27,740 –> 00:08:28,740
[Paul Tyler]: you know

192
00:08:28,104 –> 00:08:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i really do think that low interest rates have influences this not

193
00:08:31,544 –> 00:08:32,744
[Tamiko Toland]: something we really talk about a lot

194
00:08:34,424 –> 00:08:39,464
[Tamiko Toland]: but the methods that we use to generate income and retirement regardless of where

195
00:08:39,544 –> 00:08:41,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re sitting have

196
00:08:42,184 –> 00:08:46,584
[Tamiko Toland]: really deteriorated bond ladders don’t have the power that they used to so now

197
00:08:46,664 –> 00:08:48,104
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re talking about all this as

198
00:08:49,304 –> 00:08:50,584
[Tamiko Toland]: um moving

199
00:08:50,980 –> 00:08:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: i

200
00:08:51,384 –> 00:08:53,864
[Tamiko Toland]: attitudes in the retail arena well

201
00:08:53,700 –> 00:08:54,700
[Paul Tyler]: i think

202
00:08:54,104 –> 00:08:58,024
[Tamiko Toland]: the same really applies it’s the same people right it’s just

203
00:08:57,860 –> 00:08:58,860
[Paul Tyler]: thank you

204
00:08:58,104 –> 00:09:00,104
[Tamiko Toland]: regular american workers who are saving

205
00:09:00,420 –> 00:09:01,420
[Paul Tyler]: is

206
00:09:00,984 –> 00:09:02,184
[Tamiko Toland]: and when they

207
00:09:03,384 –> 00:09:07,704
[Tamiko Toland]: approach retirement when they reach retirement age and they do not have the

208
00:09:07,864 –> 00:09:08,984
[Tamiko Toland]: confidence to retire

209
00:09:09,724 –> 00:09:10,724
[Tamiko Toland]: and they’re

210
00:09:10,100 –> 00:09:11,100
[Paul Tyler]: what

211
00:09:10,504 –> 00:09:12,584
[Tamiko Toland]: much more likely to stay at their companies

212
00:09:13,784 –> 00:09:18,904
[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly this is a workforce management issue for companies that want to be

213
00:09:18,984 –> 00:09:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: able to hire younger workers promote them through you can’t promote people when

214
00:09:22,344 –> 00:09:26,184
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s folks already sitting in those positions so that company life cycle

215
00:09:26,344 –> 00:09:32,104
[Tamiko Toland]: really gets stalled when you have people not retiring right and when you you have

216
00:09:32,184 –> 00:09:35,784
[Tamiko Toland]: folks that are hanging on not because they’re passionate about their work and

217
00:09:35,484 –> 00:09:36,484
[Tamiko Toland]: want

218
00:09:35,620 –> 00:09:36,620
[Paul Tyler]: was

219
00:09:36,264 –> 00:09:40,824
[Tamiko Toland]: to continue working retirement which is a very valid thing that we talk about so

220
00:09:40,904 –> 00:09:42,824
[Tamiko Toland]: much more now with you know

221
00:09:42,660 –> 00:09:43,660
[Paul Tyler]: i

222
00:09:43,064 –> 00:09:46,424
[Tamiko Toland]: a revision of how we view retirement but when that’s not the reason people are

223
00:09:46,564 –> 00:09:47,564
[Tamiko Toland]: are sticking to their jobs

224
00:09:47,140 –> 00:09:48,140
[Paul Tyler]: no

225
00:09:47,624 –> 00:09:49,464
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i think there are a lot

226
00:09:49,060 –> 00:09:50,060
[Paul Tyler]: about

227
00:09:49,544 –> 00:09:54,264
[Tamiko Toland]: of additional workforce issues and older workers are more expensive to companies

228
00:09:55,680 –> 00:09:58,240
[Paul Tyler]: and we don’t want talk and i

229
00:09:55,784 –> 00:09:59,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know we don’t want to talk about this and and i really i don’t want to

230
00:09:59,624 –> 00:10:04,104
[Tamiko Toland]: make sure that i’m be careful not to speak about this from an age’s perspective

231
00:10:04,184 –> 00:10:05,464
[Tamiko Toland]: because i you know i’m also like

232
00:10:07,464 –> 00:10:11,784
[Tamiko Toland]: leaning that direction as we all are time time moves in one direction for all of

233
00:10:11,324 –> 00:10:12,324
[Tamiko Toland]: us

234
00:10:12,904 –> 00:10:16,424
[Tamiko Toland]: but you really want people to be able to enjoy the retirements that they’ve been

235
00:10:16,664 –> 00:10:20,584
[Tamiko Toland]: saving for but when you’re not giving them that confidence and you’re not giving

236
00:10:20,744 –> 00:10:22,344
[Tamiko Toland]: them lifetime income then that

237
00:10:22,060 –> 00:10:23,060
[Paul Tyler]: that is

238
00:10:22,424 –> 00:10:23,464
[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t going to happen i

239
00:10:23,944 –> 00:10:27,944
[Tamiko Toland]: haven’t answered your question but i i see ramsey taking notes and i have a

240
00:10:24,000 –> 00:10:26,000
[Paul Tyler]: i have these i pay

241
00:10:28,024 –> 00:10:30,904
[Tamiko Toland]: feeling there might be some more questions flying my way so we we’ll get there

242
00:10:33,138 –> 00:10:38,418
[Ramsey Smith]: so yes i i was gonna say that is the that is the politest version of o k boomer

243
00:10:38,278 –> 00:10:39,278
[Ramsey Smith]: i’ve ever heard

244
00:10:43,618 –> 00:10:46,658
[Ramsey Smith]: um but it’s but let me let me ask you about this so

245
00:10:46,260 –> 00:10:47,260
[Paul Tyler]: so

246
00:10:47,558 –> 00:10:48,558
[Ramsey Smith]: um

247
00:10:47,700 –> 00:10:48,700
[Paul Tyler]: um

248
00:10:49,698 –> 00:10:52,978
[Ramsey Smith]: do you do you get the sense that that companies

249
00:10:54,258 –> 00:10:55,298
[Ramsey Smith]: hr departments

250
00:10:56,338 –> 00:11:00,818
[Ramsey Smith]: the folks that are sort of actually dealing with this particular problem you you

251
00:11:00,978 –> 00:11:06,658
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re saying this can potentially address do you think they see that yet right

252
00:11:06,638 –> 00:11:07,638
[Ramsey Smith]: do are you

253
00:11:07,084 –> 00:11:08,084
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

254
00:11:08,818 –> 00:11:13,938
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i mean i is that a i i i’m at the end of the day at the end of the day in

255
00:11:14,018 –> 00:11:17,298
[Ramsey Smith]: order for this to work there have to be pain points right they have to be sort of

256
00:11:16,958 –> 00:11:17,958
[Ramsey Smith]: pain

257
00:11:17,084 –> 00:11:18,084
[Tamiko Toland]: that

258
00:11:17,558 –> 00:11:18,558
[Ramsey Smith]: points that people are

259
00:11:19,778 –> 00:11:21,058
[Ramsey Smith]: are determined to sort of

260
00:11:20,844 –> 00:11:21,844
[Tamiko Toland]: just

261
00:11:21,138 –> 00:11:24,658
[Ramsey Smith]: resolve and so the question is is that a big enough pain point yet you think

262
00:11:25,964 –> 00:11:26,964
[Tamiko Toland]: i

263
00:11:26,480 –> 00:11:27,520
[Paul Tyler]: i have that

264
00:11:26,578 –> 00:11:27,698
[Ramsey Smith]: i i think that that

265
00:11:26,744 –> 00:11:29,064
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that it’s a combination of factors and

266
00:11:28,740 –> 00:11:29,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

267
00:11:28,764 –> 00:11:29,764
[Tamiko Toland]: yes

268
00:11:28,918 –> 00:11:29,918
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

269
00:11:29,464 –> 00:11:30,824
[Tamiko Toland]: i do think that

270
00:11:30,518 –> 00:11:31,518
[Ramsey Smith]: that

271
00:11:31,384 –> 00:11:34,584
[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue

272
00:11:31,384 –> 00:11:34,584
[Tamiko Toland]: the employers are starting to recognize this issue

273
00:11:35,204 –> 00:11:36,204
[Tamiko Toland]: and i

274
00:11:35,478 –> 00:11:36,478
[Ramsey Smith]: and i

275
00:11:35,680 –> 00:11:37,840
[Paul Tyler]: and i think it it just something something like

276
00:11:35,864 –> 00:11:37,704
[Tamiko Toland]: think and i don’t forget there’s also

277
00:11:37,518 –> 00:11:38,518
[Ramsey Smith]: like that

278
00:11:37,784 –> 00:11:38,904
[Tamiko Toland]: like the there’s the

279
00:11:38,740 –> 00:11:39,740
[Paul Tyler]: parent

280
00:11:38,984 –> 00:11:40,264
[Tamiko Toland]: carrot not just the stick that

281
00:11:40,038 –> 00:11:41,038
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

282
00:11:40,504 –> 00:11:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of

283
00:11:40,504 –> 00:11:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know of trying to attract you know new employees um but you know a lot of

284
00:11:44,764 –> 00:11:45,764
[Tamiko Toland]: times

285
00:11:44,764 –> 00:11:45,764
[Tamiko Toland]: times

286
00:11:46,644 –> 00:11:47,644
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s what

287
00:11:47,078 –> 00:11:48,078
[Ramsey Smith]: would be hard

288
00:11:47,384 –> 00:11:48,584
[Tamiko Toland]: we talk about right

289
00:11:48,364 –> 00:11:49,364
[Tamiko Toland]: oh

290
00:11:48,420 –> 00:11:49,420
[Paul Tyler]: oh

291
00:11:48,518 –> 00:11:49,518
[Ramsey Smith]: oh

292
00:11:49,224 –> 00:11:51,704
[Tamiko Toland]: participants really want this but participants

293
00:11:51,558 –> 00:11:52,558
[Ramsey Smith]: one

294
00:11:51,784 –> 00:11:53,624
[Tamiko Toland]: wanting it isn’t necessarily enough to get

295
00:11:53,478 –> 00:11:54,478
[Ramsey Smith]: you know your

296
00:11:53,704 –> 00:11:57,864
[Tamiko Toland]: over the barrier of oh there’s risk for the sponsor and that has been where

297
00:11:57,558 –> 00:11:58,558
[Ramsey Smith]: your

298
00:11:58,104 –> 00:12:00,344
[Tamiko Toland]: a lot of the conversations have really

299
00:12:00,260 –> 00:12:01,260
[Paul Tyler]: water

300
00:12:00,504 –> 00:12:05,864
[Tamiko Toland]: revolved around and so it’s it’s some you know like it it’s a set of factors and

301
00:12:05,884 –> 00:12:06,884
[Tamiko Toland]: and one of them is

302
00:12:06,940 –> 00:12:07,940
[Paul Tyler]: born

303
00:12:07,084 –> 00:12:08,084
[Tamiko Toland]: lowering the barrier

304
00:12:09,144 –> 00:12:10,904
[Tamiko Toland]: from a risk perspective which

305
00:12:10,964 –> 00:12:11,964
[Tamiko Toland]: secure

306
00:12:11,060 –> 00:12:12,060
[Paul Tyler]: you

307
00:12:11,698 –> 00:12:12,898
[Ramsey Smith]: here i actually

308
00:12:11,784 –> 00:12:13,944
[Tamiko Toland]: act does actually uh remove

309
00:12:13,644 –> 00:12:14,644
[Tamiko Toland]: that

310
00:12:13,700 –> 00:12:14,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

311
00:12:14,318 –> 00:12:15,318
[Ramsey Smith]: that of

312
00:12:14,504 –> 00:12:19,464
[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of including a safe harb for selection of the insurer but there’s still

313
00:12:19,324 –> 00:12:20,324
[Tamiko Toland]: a big

314
00:12:19,764 –> 00:12:20,764
[Tamiko Toland]: gap

315
00:12:19,780 –> 00:12:20,780
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

316
00:12:21,684 –> 00:12:22,684
[Tamiko Toland]: for implementation

317
00:12:23,460 –> 00:12:24,460
[Paul Tyler]: and it is

318
00:12:23,704 –> 00:12:26,104
[Tamiko Toland]: and it is a very significant gap which is

319
00:12:25,860 –> 00:12:26,860
[Paul Tyler]: how

320
00:12:26,344 –> 00:12:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually

321
00:12:26,344 –> 00:12:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: how do you actually

322
00:12:28,524 –> 00:12:29,524
[Tamiko Toland]: make the choice

323
00:12:30,124 –> 00:12:31,124
[Tamiko Toland]: and we

324
00:12:30,524 –> 00:12:31,524
[Tamiko Toland]: we

325
00:12:31,058 –> 00:12:32,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know that there are

326
00:12:31,280 –> 00:12:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: else there are right

327
00:12:31,384 –> 00:12:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: that there are sort of tried and true methods for other other

328
00:12:35,140 –> 00:12:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: other

329
00:12:35,398 –> 00:12:36,398
[Ramsey Smith]: other friend

330
00:12:35,704 –> 00:12:38,584
[Tamiko Toland]: investments target date funds right like yes

331
00:12:38,198 –> 00:12:39,198
[Ramsey Smith]: yes

332
00:12:38,484 –> 00:12:39,484
[Tamiko Toland]: we understand

333
00:12:39,804 –> 00:12:40,804
[Tamiko Toland]: how

334
00:12:39,958 –> 00:12:40,958
[Ramsey Smith]: i

335
00:12:40,664 –> 00:12:43,944
[Tamiko Toland]: other investment options um you know make it into a plan

336
00:12:45,464 –> 00:12:49,624
[Tamiko Toland]: um but we’re talking about something that’s not just another investment

337
00:12:50,664 –> 00:12:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: income is a completely different conversation and it works differently it

338
00:12:54,918 –> 00:12:55,918
[Ramsey Smith]: that

339
00:12:55,064 –> 00:12:56,264
[Tamiko Toland]: affects the

340
00:12:56,500 –> 00:12:57,500
[Paul Tyler]: scientific

341
00:12:56,584 –> 00:12:59,944
[Tamiko Toland]: dynamics and you know particularly because you’re talking about post retirement

342
00:12:56,598 –> 00:12:57,598
[Ramsey Smith]: dynamic

343
00:13:00,044 –> 00:13:01,044
[Tamiko Toland]: right

344
00:13:00,738 –> 00:13:02,098
[Ramsey Smith]: like the do we

345
00:13:00,824 –> 00:13:03,624
[Tamiko Toland]: that that’s really where it kicks in so how

346
00:13:03,484 –> 00:13:04,484
[Tamiko Toland]: does it behave

347
00:13:03,638 –> 00:13:04,638
[Ramsey Smith]: so how ca

348
00:13:04,100 –> 00:13:05,100
[Paul Tyler]: keep water

349
00:13:04,424 –> 00:13:06,984
[Tamiko Toland]: before retirement do we have the same expectations that we do for other

350
00:13:06,820 –> 00:13:07,820
[Paul Tyler]: that

351
00:13:07,224 –> 00:13:10,584
[Tamiko Toland]: investments and so it’s a different mindset and so when you ask

352
00:13:10,180 –> 00:13:11,180
[Paul Tyler]: yes

353
00:13:10,744 –> 00:13:13,144
[Tamiko Toland]: me like what is the biggest challenge

354
00:13:12,918 –> 00:13:13,918
[Ramsey Smith]: out

355
00:13:13,564 –> 00:13:14,564
[Tamiko Toland]: we have been

356
00:13:13,564 –> 00:13:14,564
[Tamiko Toland]: we have been

357
00:13:16,104 –> 00:13:20,024
[Tamiko Toland]: working on a lot of the solutions that are necessary for example middleware

358
00:13:20,184 –> 00:13:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions which are

359
00:13:21,380 –> 00:13:22,380
[Paul Tyler]: really

360
00:13:21,784 –> 00:13:22,984
[Tamiko Toland]: really important for kind

361
00:13:22,620 –> 00:13:23,620
[Paul Tyler]: kind of

362
00:13:23,064 –> 00:13:25,784
[Tamiko Toland]: of like the connective tissue all right

363
00:13:25,540 –> 00:13:26,540
[Paul Tyler]: any

364
00:13:26,024 –> 00:13:30,904
[Tamiko Toland]: for you know getting everybody hooked up to this right and you know

365
00:13:30,580 –> 00:13:31,580
[Paul Tyler]: that

366
00:13:30,878 –> 00:13:31,878
[Ramsey Smith]: does that work

367
00:13:31,064 –> 00:13:35,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that market has matured significantly in the last decade right where pe you know

368
00:13:36,504 –> 00:13:42,264
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re seeing some some very positive change right but the reality is that for the

369
00:13:42,344 –> 00:13:43,544
[Tamiko Toland]: folks who are actually

370
00:13:45,144 –> 00:13:49,944
[Tamiko Toland]: look at considering these solutions income is not their native language

371
00:13:51,244 –> 00:13:52,244
[Tamiko Toland]: and

372
00:13:51,940 –> 00:13:52,940
[Paul Tyler]: i think that

373
00:13:52,184 –> 00:13:54,584
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that that is a huge hurdle

374
00:13:55,884 –> 00:13:56,884
[Tamiko Toland]: in terms of

375
00:13:57,244 –> 00:13:58,244
[Tamiko Toland]: getting

376
00:13:58,824 –> 00:14:05,304
[Tamiko Toland]: the let’s say the consultants retirement plan advisors comfortable with making

377
00:14:05,544 –> 00:14:10,504
[Tamiko Toland]: those recommendations and confident that they are doing that appropriately for

378
00:14:10,664 –> 00:14:12,984
[Tamiko Toland]: the sponsor client right and

379
00:14:12,604 –> 00:14:13,604
[Tamiko Toland]: the

380
00:14:12,918 –> 00:14:13,918
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s a lot

381
00:14:12,980 –> 00:14:13,980
[Paul Tyler]: what

382
00:14:13,304 –> 00:14:14,744
[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors have to feel like

383
00:14:14,818 –> 00:14:17,058
[Ramsey Smith]: like yeah that that makes sense it fun

384
00:14:14,984 –> 00:14:18,024
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah that that makes sense and i don’t think i just stuck

385
00:14:15,040 –> 00:14:16,880
[Paul Tyler]: yeah that’s it i

386
00:14:17,638 –> 00:14:18,638
[Ramsey Smith]: like

387
00:14:18,104 –> 00:14:23,144
[Tamiko Toland]: my neck out in order to do this and it’s not simply a matter of a legislative fix

388
00:14:23,304 –> 00:14:26,024
[Tamiko Toland]: because we like we don’t need another like

389
00:14:26,180 –> 00:14:27,180
[Paul Tyler]: like

390
00:14:26,664 –> 00:14:29,144
[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this

391
00:14:26,664 –> 00:14:29,144
[Tamiko Toland]: dick rule about how to do this

392
00:14:30,264 –> 00:14:33,944
[Tamiko Toland]: and frankly the department of labor generally stays away from that like that you

393
00:14:34,024 –> 00:14:37,864
[Tamiko Toland]: know these things kind of evolve and the general guidelines yes but not very

394
00:14:38,184 –> 00:14:44,584
[Tamiko Toland]: specific details and particularly on a really a novel subject matter and a novel

395
00:14:44,984 –> 00:14:49,144
[Tamiko Toland]: product dynamic which is what income represents

396
00:14:49,840 –> 00:14:50,880
[Paul Tyler]: so okay when i

397
00:14:52,000 –> 00:14:57,280
[Paul Tyler]: a two part question when i think toco of the group market i think like you

398
00:14:57,360 –> 00:15:00,960
[Paul Tyler]: mentioned a company with a very you know a very big company right

399
00:15:02,160 –> 00:15:07,680
[Paul Tyler]: if you’re marketing products or retirement plans into a large company the needs

400
00:15:07,760 –> 00:15:13,120
[Paul Tyler]: start to tier like executive senior the super executive management team may have

401
00:15:14,000 –> 00:15:17,600
[Paul Tyler]: they may have a fee based only advisory service that helps them do

402
00:15:17,164 –> 00:15:18,164
[Tamiko Toland]: see

403
00:15:17,760 –> 00:15:19,040
[Paul Tyler]: this you to go down

404
00:15:18,724 –> 00:15:19,724
[Tamiko Toland]: or something

405
00:15:19,280 –> 00:15:24,560
[Paul Tyler]: another tier these people aren’t so they they’ve got some big balances but

406
00:15:24,640 –> 00:15:28,880
[Paul Tyler]: they’re not going to have an advisor you get down farther than the company where

407
00:15:28,940 –> 00:15:29,940
[Paul Tyler]: i think i think i heard

408
00:15:29,558 –> 00:15:30,558
[Ramsey Smith]: favorite

409
00:15:29,660 –> 00:15:30,660
[Paul Tyler]: you talking

410
00:15:31,440 –> 00:15:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: or speaking to are people who are you know they’re just trying to pay the bills

411
00:15:34,740 –> 00:15:35,740
[Paul Tyler]: oh by the way

412
00:15:35,238 –> 00:15:36,238
[Ramsey Smith]: lot of time

413
00:15:35,600 –> 00:15:37,280
[Paul Tyler]: oh gee i did have a four one k

414
00:15:38,400 –> 00:15:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: how do you do you see the segmentation

415
00:15:42,400 –> 00:15:45,520
[Paul Tyler]: the drivers of adoption being or should they

416
00:15:45,238 –> 00:15:46,238
[Ramsey Smith]: really

417
00:15:45,680 –> 00:15:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: be different based on your income inside a company

418
00:15:51,564 –> 00:15:52,564
[Tamiko Toland]: so

419
00:15:51,798 –> 00:15:52,798
[Ramsey Smith]: no

420
00:15:52,604 –> 00:15:53,604
[Tamiko Toland]: the thing is that the

421
00:15:53,318 –> 00:15:54,318
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

422
00:15:54,524 –> 00:15:55,524
[Tamiko Toland]: really the

423
00:15:55,038 –> 00:15:56,038
[Ramsey Smith]: like that mind

424
00:15:55,384 –> 00:15:58,184
[Tamiko Toland]: mindset of thinking around this is that the

425
00:15:58,258 –> 00:15:59,298
[Ramsey Smith]: second actually

426
00:15:58,264 –> 00:16:03,304
[Tamiko Toland]: qt is the place where the assets fall because that is the you know the default

427
00:16:03,944 –> 00:16:10,264
[Tamiko Toland]: flows into the qa and that now has become target date funds right and so

428
00:16:09,878 –> 00:16:10,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

429
00:16:11,864 –> 00:16:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s the same thing of how we think about income

430
00:16:14,260 –> 00:16:15,260
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

431
00:16:14,604 –> 00:16:15,604
[Tamiko Toland]: now i’m

432
00:16:15,358 –> 00:16:16,358
[Ramsey Smith]: thank you john

433
00:16:15,544 –> 00:16:17,864
[Tamiko Toland]: gonna be honest with you like rich people

434
00:16:17,638 –> 00:16:18,638
[Ramsey Smith]: s

435
00:16:18,104 –> 00:16:19,624
[Tamiko Toland]: are fine right

436
00:16:19,778 –> 00:16:20,978
[Ramsey Smith]: right they’re knowing somebody

437
00:16:20,024 –> 00:16:22,024
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s always somebody who’s willing to give them

438
00:16:22,184 –> 00:16:26,584
[Tamiko Toland]: advice they they have lots of access to advice but the people who truly benefit

439
00:16:22,498 –> 00:16:23,938
[Ramsey Smith]: why have that

440
00:16:26,198 –> 00:16:27,198
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

441
00:16:27,544 –> 00:16:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: within a retirement plan are those individuals who

442
00:16:31,600 –> 00:16:33,680
[Paul Tyler]: how do i smoke but

443
00:16:31,624 –> 00:16:37,224
[Tamiko Toland]: otherwise have no access to advice or guidance or anything right and so the

444
00:16:37,304 –> 00:16:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: default all this entire structure that we’re talking about

445
00:16:41,600 –> 00:16:42,720
[Paul Tyler]: e really

446
00:16:41,600 –> 00:16:42,720
[Paul Tyler]: e really

447
00:16:41,604 –> 00:16:42,604
[Tamiko Toland]: is really

448
00:16:41,778 –> 00:16:43,218
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah sus

449
00:16:43,884 –> 00:16:44,884
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s

450
00:16:44,500 –> 00:16:45,500
[Paul Tyler]: i

451
00:16:44,744 –> 00:16:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: designed to help those individuals who are much more on the margins and if if you

452
00:16:51,164 –> 00:16:52,164
[Tamiko Toland]: have outside

453
00:16:51,900 –> 00:16:52,900
[Paul Tyler]: i like

454
00:16:52,264 –> 00:16:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: advice and your advice says no no no we have this different plan you don’t need

455
00:16:56,184 –> 00:17:00,024
[Tamiko Toland]: this you know we’ll put your money into something else that’s completely

456
00:17:00,104 –> 00:17:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: fine and that is how the

457
00:17:00,198 –> 00:17:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: why not

458
00:17:02,024 –> 00:17:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: q is structured it’s a default it’s not

459
00:17:02,098 –> 00:17:03,138
[Ramsey Smith]: out thirty

460
00:17:03,878 –> 00:17:04,878
[Ramsey Smith]: not

461
00:17:04,344 –> 00:17:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: like you’re not forced to stay in it right but but it needs to be

462
00:17:10,184 –> 00:17:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: a quality solution

463
00:17:12,824 –> 00:17:16,424
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals who may not be

464
00:17:16,038 –> 00:17:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: y

465
00:17:16,424 –> 00:17:21,304
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulating as much money in you know during their working years for retirement

466
00:17:21,460 –> 00:17:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: so

467
00:17:22,024 –> 00:17:27,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and who probably aren’t going to get other guidance right and so this is exactly

468
00:17:26,764 –> 00:17:27,764
[Tamiko Toland]: why

469
00:17:27,724 –> 00:17:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: so

470
00:17:27,780 –> 00:17:28,780
[Paul Tyler]: so

471
00:17:27,958 –> 00:17:28,958
[Ramsey Smith]: so

472
00:17:28,344 –> 00:17:29,544
[Tamiko Toland]: many people are

473
00:17:29,420 –> 00:17:30,420
[Paul Tyler]: pla

474
00:17:29,784 –> 00:17:32,264
[Tamiko Toland]: passionate about this that it’s not yes

475
00:17:32,004 –> 00:17:33,004
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean

476
00:17:32,020 –> 00:17:33,020
[Paul Tyler]: i

477
00:17:32,664 –> 00:17:33,704
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s it’s great like that

478
00:17:32,738 –> 00:17:34,178
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean like the

479
00:17:33,380 –> 00:17:34,380
[Paul Tyler]: like that

480
00:17:33,844 –> 00:17:34,844
[Tamiko Toland]: from an asset gathering

481
00:17:34,838 –> 00:17:35,838
[Ramsey Smith]: now

482
00:17:34,904 –> 00:17:38,664
[Tamiko Toland]: standpoint whatever you know servicing all these people but you know you get

483
00:17:38,364 –> 00:17:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: folks

484
00:17:38,918 –> 00:17:39,918
[Ramsey Smith]: smoke

485
00:17:39,224 –> 00:17:43,384
[Tamiko Toland]: like me who care deeply about it because you see this is a fantastic

486
00:17:43,238 –> 00:17:44,238
[Ramsey Smith]: not

487
00:17:43,464 –> 00:17:44,984
[Tamiko Toland]: way to reach

488
00:17:46,264 –> 00:17:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: so many americans in a way

489
00:17:47,798 –> 00:17:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: we

490
00:17:48,344 –> 00:17:50,424
[Tamiko Toland]: that the retail space is not going to

491
00:17:51,158 –> 00:17:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: so

492
00:17:51,300 –> 00:17:52,300
[Paul Tyler]: oh

493
00:17:52,018 –> 00:17:56,978
[Ramsey Smith]: okay this is this is very you know interesting interesting element of it because

494
00:17:58,178 –> 00:18:04,658
[Ramsey Smith]: we live in a world where where this the same three the esg acronym comes up a lot

495
00:18:05,138 –> 00:18:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: it comes up in investing it comes up certainly in board work i can tell you it

496
00:18:09,938 –> 00:18:11,938
[Ramsey Smith]: comes up in a lot of different places like esg

497
00:18:13,138 –> 00:18:14,498
[Ramsey Smith]: is is on the tip of

498
00:18:14,380 –> 00:18:15,380
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

499
00:18:14,498 –> 00:18:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: everybody’s tongues because it’s it’s

500
00:18:15,878 –> 00:18:16,878
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s

501
00:18:16,044 –> 00:18:17,044
[Tamiko Toland]: expensive

502
00:18:16,260 –> 00:18:17,260
[Paul Tyler]: what

503
00:18:16,658 –> 00:18:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: important in every aspect of business now

504
00:18:19,558 –> 00:18:20,558
[Ramsey Smith]: and you know one

505
00:18:20,100 –> 00:18:21,100
[Paul Tyler]: what

506
00:18:20,638 –> 00:18:21,638
[Ramsey Smith]: sort of sleeve of

507
00:18:21,278 –> 00:18:22,278
[Ramsey Smith]: esg

508
00:18:21,300 –> 00:18:22,300
[Paul Tyler]: yes

509
00:18:21,884 –> 00:18:22,884
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s pretty

510
00:18:22,338 –> 00:18:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s often talked about is banking to the un banked and you know here we’re

511
00:18:28,498 –> 00:18:34,418
[Ramsey Smith]: talking about i don’t have as neat a catch phrase as that but it’s sort of the it

512
00:18:34,498 –> 00:18:38,658
[Ramsey Smith]: is retirement income to the un income for lack of a better way

513
00:18:39,858 –> 00:18:41,858
[Ramsey Smith]: way to describe it but i’ve i very

514
00:18:41,780 –> 00:18:42,780
[Paul Tyler]: you

515
00:18:42,178 –> 00:18:45,698
[Ramsey Smith]: rarely heard it one described as an esg issue

516
00:18:46,818 –> 00:18:51,538
[Ramsey Smith]: and two i don’t really think i’ve heard any of the the current proponents of the

517
00:18:51,158 –> 00:18:52,158
[Ramsey Smith]: space

518
00:18:52,518 –> 00:18:53,518
[Ramsey Smith]: uh you

519
00:18:53,298 –> 00:18:59,218
[Ramsey Smith]: know describing it that way as as opportunistically as everybody else is using

520
00:18:53,360 –> 00:18:56,240
[Paul Tyler]: it was like that way yeah

521
00:18:59,858 –> 00:19:04,738
[Ramsey Smith]: using that acronym everywhere else in the business world so what your thoughts on

522
00:19:04,738 –> 00:19:07,298
[Ramsey Smith]: there is that a missed opportunity cause i think it’s real

523
00:19:09,164 –> 00:19:10,164
[Tamiko Toland]: um

524
00:19:12,024 –> 00:19:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m not sure i mean i i think that i

525
00:19:13,958 –> 00:19:14,958
[Ramsey Smith]: i

526
00:19:14,424 –> 00:19:15,544
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly have heard other people

527
00:19:15,238 –> 00:19:16,238
[Ramsey Smith]: it

528
00:19:15,704 –> 00:19:18,984
[Tamiko Toland]: talk about i’m not the only one who has articulated it like that

529
00:19:18,598 –> 00:19:19,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

530
00:19:19,500 –> 00:19:20,500
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i

531
00:19:19,704 –> 00:19:22,584
[Tamiko Toland]: so i think there are other voices out there saying the same thing

532
00:19:23,544 –> 00:19:25,784
[Tamiko Toland]: and i definitely see that passion

533
00:19:23,600 –> 00:19:25,360
[Paul Tyler]: and i guess see that

534
00:19:26,824 –> 00:19:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: um among other stakeholders um

535
00:19:29,380 –> 00:19:30,380
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

536
00:19:30,024 –> 00:19:31,624
[Tamiko Toland]: you know is this the marketing opportunity

537
00:19:32,684 –> 00:19:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: i

538
00:19:32,980 –> 00:19:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

539
00:19:33,118 –> 00:19:34,118
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

540
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how

541
00:19:33,224 –> 00:19:36,904
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know because ultimately when you look at the dynamics of how

542
00:19:36,420 –> 00:19:37,420
[Paul Tyler]: how

543
00:19:38,264 –> 00:19:40,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the these solutions are going to be placed

544
00:19:41,300 –> 00:19:42,300
[Paul Tyler]: and

545
00:19:41,784 –> 00:19:42,824
[Tamiko Toland]: and that

546
00:19:43,724 –> 00:19:44,724
[Tamiko Toland]: the

547
00:19:43,980 –> 00:19:44,980
[Paul Tyler]: the can

548
00:19:44,084 –> 00:19:45,084
[Tamiko Toland]: mechanical

549
00:19:44,718 –> 00:19:45,718
[Ramsey Smith]: go back

550
00:19:44,984 –> 00:19:47,624
[Tamiko Toland]: factors the the choices

551
00:19:47,398 –> 00:19:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: this

552
00:19:47,784 –> 00:19:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that sponsors need to make

553
00:19:49,244 –> 00:19:50,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i

554
00:19:49,760 –> 00:19:52,320
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t think that that but i i think that

555
00:19:49,864 –> 00:19:52,824
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t think that that’s the thing but i do think that that drives

556
00:19:49,938 –> 00:19:52,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t think that that i think five

557
00:19:53,404 –> 00:19:54,404
[Tamiko Toland]: really

558
00:19:55,304 –> 00:19:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know the the legislative components right and the fact that in the regulatory

559
00:19:59,684 –> 00:20:00,684
[Tamiko Toland]: piece say we want

560
00:20:00,358 –> 00:20:01,358
[Ramsey Smith]: want be

561
00:20:00,664 –> 00:20:02,744
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this easier we w we and we

562
00:20:02,598 –> 00:20:03,598
[Ramsey Smith]: if one is

563
00:20:02,824 –> 00:20:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: want it to be safe so it’s

564
00:20:04,198 –> 00:20:05,198
[Ramsey Smith]: b

565
00:20:04,424 –> 00:20:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: balancing those interests out

566
00:20:05,638 –> 00:20:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: nine

567
00:20:06,184 –> 00:20:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: because you want to

568
00:20:07,438 –> 00:20:08,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what do you ask

569
00:20:07,624 –> 00:20:09,224
[Tamiko Toland]: increase access to all

570
00:20:09,180 –> 00:20:10,180
[Paul Tyler]: all the american

571
00:20:09,198 –> 00:20:10,198
[Ramsey Smith]: of america

572
00:20:09,384 –> 00:20:14,024
[Tamiko Toland]: these americans which is you know that’s a very good goal for our our government

573
00:20:14,824 –> 00:20:16,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know folks working there to be

574
00:20:16,500 –> 00:20:17,500
[Paul Tyler]: think

575
00:20:16,904 –> 00:20:21,144
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about and they also want to make sure that it’s done responsibly so you

576
00:20:21,100 –> 00:20:22,100
[Paul Tyler]: you know i i just

577
00:20:21,224 –> 00:20:23,144
[Tamiko Toland]: know i i think that that may be a more

578
00:20:21,298 –> 00:20:22,498
[Ramsey Smith]: you know i i think it’s that

579
00:20:23,478 –> 00:20:24,478
[Ramsey Smith]: well

580
00:20:23,704 –> 00:20:25,224
[Tamiko Toland]: relevant conversation there

581
00:20:24,820 –> 00:20:25,820
[Paul Tyler]: there

582
00:20:24,998 –> 00:20:25,998
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

583
00:20:25,764 –> 00:20:26,764
[Tamiko Toland]: and it’s a

584
00:20:26,318 –> 00:20:27,318
[Ramsey Smith]: the one i

585
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

586
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

587
00:20:26,324 –> 00:20:27,324
[Tamiko Toland]: little bit different

588
00:20:28,258 –> 00:20:29,378
[Ramsey Smith]: um you know

589
00:20:28,584 –> 00:20:30,744
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know like i say when it

590
00:20:30,598 –> 00:20:31,598
[Ramsey Smith]: something

591
00:20:30,904 –> 00:20:34,184
[Tamiko Toland]: comes to building these q solutions this

592
00:20:34,184 –> 00:20:39,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is a different way of thinking about income than we’re really accustomed to in

593
00:20:34,258 –> 00:20:35,698
[Ramsey Smith]: which is a different way

594
00:20:39,464 –> 00:20:41,464
[Tamiko Toland]: retail because you know when you have an individual

595
00:20:41,540 –> 00:20:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: white

596
00:20:41,864 –> 00:20:45,384
[Tamiko Toland]: client and you know what their needs are then you make selections that are really

597
00:20:45,284 –> 00:20:46,284
[Tamiko Toland]: much more

598
00:20:47,304 –> 00:20:53,704
[Tamiko Toland]: optimized for you know what their goals are right and so you can use these you

599
00:20:53,324 –> 00:20:54,324
[Tamiko Toland]: know

600
00:20:53,780 –> 00:20:54,780
[Paul Tyler]: i

601
00:20:54,044 –> 00:20:55,044
[Tamiko Toland]: products that are as

602
00:20:55,198 –> 00:20:56,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i know

603
00:20:55,304 –> 00:20:59,224
[Tamiko Toland]: we all know like so much of the annuity industry has become highly specialized

604
00:20:59,324 –> 00:21:00,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know you have

605
00:21:00,258 –> 00:21:01,618
[Ramsey Smith]: no that is

606
00:21:00,424 –> 00:21:03,144
[Tamiko Toland]: you know this benefit that’s torque one way

607
00:21:02,878 –> 00:21:03,878
[Ramsey Smith]: one way

608
00:21:03,304 –> 00:21:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and other benefit that’s toed in

609
00:21:04,838 –> 00:21:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: another way

610
00:21:05,144 –> 00:21:08,264
[Tamiko Toland]: another way and they are different use cases right and

611
00:21:08,580 –> 00:21:09,580
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

612
00:21:08,904 –> 00:21:13,384
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s to the benefit of the end client of making it more focused right and that

613
00:21:12,518 –> 00:21:13,518
[Ramsey Smith]: i

614
00:21:13,140 –> 00:21:14,140
[Paul Tyler]: that what

615
00:21:13,164 –> 00:21:14,164
[Tamiko Toland]: doesn’t apply

616
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:14,198
[Ramsey Smith]: think that a lot

617
00:21:15,064 –> 00:21:19,144
[Tamiko Toland]: right so much when you think about pda you’re not necessarily having a single

618
00:21:19,004 –> 00:21:20,004
[Tamiko Toland]: minded goal like

619
00:21:19,564 –> 00:21:20,564
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re

620
00:21:19,798 –> 00:21:20,798
[Ramsey Smith]: talk

621
00:21:19,860 –> 00:21:20,860
[Paul Tyler]: i my

622
00:21:20,264 –> 00:21:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: not trying to maximize income for every single person you have to balance out

623
00:21:24,198 –> 00:21:25,198
[Ramsey Smith]: i

624
00:21:24,664 –> 00:21:26,824
[Tamiko Toland]: those interests because some people are going to end

625
00:21:26,678 –> 00:21:27,678
[Ramsey Smith]: and i

626
00:21:26,984 –> 00:21:31,464
[Tamiko Toland]: up at retirement not selecting that that benefit despite the fact that they’ve

627
00:21:31,544 –> 00:21:35,224
[Tamiko Toland]: paid into it whether it’s a decision made out of ignorance or they got diagnosed

628
00:21:35,224 –> 00:21:38,504
[Tamiko Toland]: with the terrible cancer right before they retired you know and they have

629
00:21:39,224 –> 00:21:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: different goals um for their their post working years

630
00:21:43,458 –> 00:21:44,498
[Ramsey Smith]: about art

631
00:21:43,604 –> 00:21:44,604
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there are

632
00:21:46,904 –> 00:21:48,824
[Tamiko Toland]: it is just a different problem to solve

633
00:21:49,078 –> 00:21:50,078
[Ramsey Smith]: g

634
00:21:49,284 –> 00:21:50,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right then

635
00:21:49,980 –> 00:21:50,980
[Paul Tyler]: wow

636
00:21:50,424 –> 00:21:53,304
[Tamiko Toland]: looking at it as you know client a

637
00:21:52,398 –> 00:21:53,398
[Ramsey Smith]: it was funny

638
00:21:53,740 –> 00:21:54,740
[Paul Tyler]: yeah so i

639
00:21:53,884 –> 00:21:54,884
[Tamiko Toland]: and

640
00:21:54,438 –> 00:21:55,438
[Ramsey Smith]: what

641
00:21:54,504 –> 00:21:55,864
[Tamiko Toland]: fitting solutions to that

642
00:21:55,220 –> 00:21:56,220
[Paul Tyler]: okay

643
00:21:55,558 –> 00:21:56,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what

644
00:21:56,000 –> 00:22:03,680
[Paul Tyler]: so here here’s okay you are the in command of you’re running the hr benefits for

645
00:22:03,700 –> 00:22:04,700
[Paul Tyler]: a target i

646
00:22:04,438 –> 00:22:05,438
[Ramsey Smith]: b

647
00:22:05,280 –> 00:22:09,680
[Paul Tyler]: just took it take a job as uh you know somebody working in one of the stores i’m

648
00:22:09,760 –> 00:22:11,440
[Paul Tyler]: a assistant manager of a store

649
00:22:12,960 –> 00:22:16,640
[Paul Tyler]: how does how should the onboarding experience be when i fill at the application

650
00:22:18,000 –> 00:22:20,240
[Paul Tyler]: come to the point of okay set up your paycheck

651
00:22:21,520 –> 00:22:24,720
[Paul Tyler]: how much pal do you want to put into your four o one k o here’s the match

652
00:22:26,000 –> 00:22:30,000
[Paul Tyler]: how would you change that that setup for me to start putting money in there do i

653
00:22:30,080 –> 00:22:35,280
[Paul Tyler]: have a choice is there a default you know if you don’t say this paul you will get

654
00:22:35,920 –> 00:22:41,520
[Paul Tyler]: x percent of your savings in the four k and x percent is going to default into

655
00:22:41,540 –> 00:22:42,540
[Paul Tyler]: this income

656
00:22:43,060 –> 00:22:44,060
[Paul Tyler]: benefit

657
00:22:44,204 –> 00:22:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: well

658
00:22:44,678 –> 00:22:45,678
[Ramsey Smith]: that

659
00:22:44,904 –> 00:22:51,064
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the idea behind defaulting is that you don’t have to convince paul to sign

660
00:22:50,844 –> 00:22:51,844
[Tamiko Toland]: up

661
00:22:52,204 –> 00:22:53,204
[Tamiko Toland]: that you

662
00:22:54,024 –> 00:22:59,384
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t need to get educated about the benefits of of contributing to four o one k

663
00:22:59,624 –> 00:23:03,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the money goes in there you get your match and then you’re put into something

664
00:23:03,704 –> 00:23:07,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s suitable for you right and so conceptually yes that those are all

665
00:23:09,624 –> 00:23:10,984
[Tamiko Toland]: components of why

666
00:23:10,580 –> 00:23:11,580
[Paul Tyler]: why

667
00:23:11,064 –> 00:23:15,064
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re thinking so strongly about qa and not simply having sort of the

668
00:23:15,064 –> 00:23:17,304
[Tamiko Toland]: availability of options

669
00:23:18,664 –> 00:23:23,304
[Tamiko Toland]: before or at retirement that’s part of what the industry calls the retirement

670
00:23:23,464 –> 00:23:27,784
[Tamiko Toland]: tier right which is a range of different options to suit two different needs

671
00:23:27,724 –> 00:23:28,724
[Tamiko Toland]: right

672
00:23:28,158 –> 00:23:29,158
[Ramsey Smith]: you could

673
00:23:28,504 –> 00:23:34,104
[Tamiko Toland]: but a lot of that is elective and not defaulted um you know it was interesting i

674
00:23:33,724 –> 00:23:34,724
[Tamiko Toland]: was

675
00:23:34,380 –> 00:23:35,380
[Paul Tyler]: out uh

676
00:23:34,424 –> 00:23:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: at the deci a innovation forum and

677
00:23:37,860 –> 00:23:38,860
[Paul Tyler]: oh

678
00:23:38,664 –> 00:23:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: somebody was presenting information about

679
00:23:42,264 –> 00:23:47,304
[Tamiko Toland]: engagement with plans and that defaulting is great for getting people into the

680
00:23:47,464 –> 00:23:50,664
[Tamiko Toland]: plan but people don’t engage with their plans as much when

681
00:23:50,340 –> 00:23:51,340
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

682
00:23:50,824 –> 00:23:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re simply defaulted right and so there’s kind of a tension between these

683
00:23:56,744 –> 00:23:57,864
[Tamiko Toland]: facts because you want

684
00:23:58,104 –> 00:24:00,744
[Tamiko Toland]: people to understand what they’re in and to perhaps

685
00:23:58,158 –> 00:23:59,158
[Ramsey Smith]: one one three

686
00:24:00,558 –> 00:24:01,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i watch

687
00:24:00,824 –> 00:24:04,744
[Tamiko Toland]: decide to increase their allocation right and so this is actually kind of a whole

688
00:24:04,824 –> 00:24:09,464
[Tamiko Toland]: other conversation around participant engagement that would also be beneficial

689
00:24:09,544 –> 00:24:11,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and also enhances because you know

690
00:24:11,460 –> 00:24:12,460
[Paul Tyler]: we

691
00:24:11,784 –> 00:24:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly people aren’t used to they use the idea

692
00:24:13,940 –> 00:24:14,940
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

693
00:24:14,504 –> 00:24:16,584
[Tamiko Toland]: of receiving income from their employer

694
00:24:17,484 –> 00:24:18,484
[Tamiko Toland]: through a pension

695
00:24:18,980 –> 00:24:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: but they’re not

696
00:24:19,224 –> 00:24:22,744
[Tamiko Toland]: but they’re not used to this as part of the four o one k because it’s it’s not a

697
00:24:22,824 –> 00:24:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: standard part of the landscape frankly you know relatively few plans even offer

698
00:24:27,624 –> 00:24:28,664
[Tamiko Toland]: it on on the

699
00:24:28,638 –> 00:24:29,638
[Ramsey Smith]: i don’t know

700
00:24:28,744 –> 00:24:30,584
[Tamiko Toland]: outbound you when you retire

701
00:24:31,164 –> 00:24:32,164
[Tamiko Toland]: but

702
00:24:31,680 –> 00:24:34,480
[Paul Tyler]: but you know i i wanna ask there’s

703
00:24:31,838 –> 00:24:32,838
[Ramsey Smith]: but you know i

704
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for

705
00:24:32,104 –> 00:24:35,704
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i want to add one other thing that there’s another trend right now for

706
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these

707
00:24:36,504 –> 00:24:42,024
[Tamiko Toland]: um more sponsors to want to keep retiree assets in plan and designing these

708
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest

709
00:24:42,184 –> 00:24:45,064
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions also serves that interest

710
00:24:46,104 –> 00:24:47,224
[Tamiko Toland]: um it you

711
00:24:46,820 –> 00:24:47,820
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

712
00:24:46,884 –> 00:24:47,884
[Tamiko Toland]: know s

713
00:24:47,798 –> 00:24:48,798
[Ramsey Smith]: some sometimes

714
00:24:47,864 –> 00:24:50,104
[Tamiko Toland]: some some designs they may roll

715
00:24:49,838 –> 00:24:50,838
[Ramsey Smith]: wow

716
00:24:50,184 –> 00:24:52,424
[Tamiko Toland]: out but a lot of them you’re keeping

717
00:24:53,844 –> 00:24:54,844
[Tamiko Toland]: if not all the

718
00:24:54,358 –> 00:24:55,358
[Ramsey Smith]: all that

719
00:24:54,744 –> 00:24:57,704
[Tamiko Toland]: acids are bulk of them inside the plan so

720
00:24:57,940 –> 00:24:58,940
[Paul Tyler]: right

721
00:24:58,278 –> 00:24:59,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so

722
00:24:58,640 –> 00:25:01,360
[Paul Tyler]: amy sorry we just one follow up on that

723
00:25:03,760 –> 00:25:07,840
[Paul Tyler]: my experience has been it is so hard to change a form from an insurance company

724
00:25:08,080 –> 00:25:09,440
[Paul Tyler]: or a fourk provider

725
00:25:11,280 –> 00:25:15,200
[Paul Tyler]: do you have models sort of best language for introducing an income conversation

726
00:25:15,760 –> 00:25:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: because you know four hundred one thousand okay everybody kinda understands four

727
00:25:19,280 –> 00:25:23,600
[Paul Tyler]: on k well how old is paul tyler you know if i’m twenty one

728
00:25:24,960 –> 00:25:29,760
[Paul Tyler]: gee maybe i’m defaulting here but i should sort of hm maybe i take it down maybe

729
00:25:29,620 –> 00:25:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: i’m

730
00:25:31,280 –> 00:25:36,320
[Paul Tyler]: actually in my fifty seconds maybe i should like allocate that initially more i

731
00:25:36,320 –> 00:25:41,040
[Paul Tyler]: mean do you have models that say this is the language it should be there for so

732
00:25:41,120 –> 00:25:44,800
[Paul Tyler]: paul makes the best optimal decision when i set it up

733
00:25:46,564 –> 00:25:47,564
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah it’s a good question

734
00:25:47,324 –> 00:25:48,324
[Tamiko Toland]: and

735
00:25:47,398 –> 00:25:48,398
[Ramsey Smith]: like you

736
00:25:47,620 –> 00:25:48,620
[Paul Tyler]: no

737
00:25:48,024 –> 00:25:52,664
[Tamiko Toland]: there aren’t models for it i mean the only model is you know i would say the

738
00:25:52,744 –> 00:25:55,624
[Tamiko Toland]: largest plan out there um if you look

739
00:25:55,300 –> 00:25:56,300
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

740
00:25:55,704 –> 00:25:59,864
[Tamiko Toland]: at rath on’s participant communications they do an excellent job

741
00:25:59,558 –> 00:26:00,558
[Ramsey Smith]: job

742
00:26:00,124 –> 00:26:01,124
[Tamiko Toland]: of

743
00:26:01,158 –> 00:26:02,158
[Ramsey Smith]: showing

744
00:26:01,224 –> 00:26:04,344
[Tamiko Toland]: showing different personas of different folks who would want to

745
00:26:03,958 –> 00:26:04,958
[Ramsey Smith]: one

746
00:26:04,424 –> 00:26:08,584
[Tamiko Toland]: stay in the plan or in in that uh guaranteed income option or

747
00:26:08,398 –> 00:26:09,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what else

748
00:26:08,684 –> 00:26:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: not right

749
00:26:10,524 –> 00:26:11,524
[Tamiko Toland]: but you know

750
00:26:11,384 –> 00:26:14,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i think part of the understanding of this is that there are also

751
00:26:11,458 –> 00:26:13,058
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah i think more fun

752
00:26:14,100 –> 00:26:15,100
[Paul Tyler]: are

753
00:26:14,664 –> 00:26:18,024
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how how they work and at

754
00:26:14,738 –> 00:26:16,098
[Ramsey Smith]: are watching house

755
00:26:17,798 –> 00:26:18,798
[Ramsey Smith]: that

756
00:26:17,804 –> 00:26:18,804
[Tamiko Toland]: what

757
00:26:18,300 –> 00:26:19,300
[Paul Tyler]: what point

758
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really

759
00:26:18,584 –> 00:26:22,264
[Tamiko Toland]: point you are accumulating that future income and so much of that really

760
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you

761
00:26:22,424 –> 00:26:27,544
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately comes down to how the solution works but for the most part there’s you

762
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age

763
00:26:27,544 –> 00:26:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: know there’s an idea that at a certain age

764
00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:29,780
[Paul Tyler]: seventies

765
00:26:30,164 –> 00:26:31,164
[Tamiko Toland]: you have

766
00:26:30,620 –> 00:26:31,620
[Paul Tyler]: i like

767
00:26:30,824 –> 00:26:32,344
[Tamiko Toland]: a glide path into income

768
00:26:33,040 –> 00:26:34,880
[Paul Tyler]: it’s just like you have a good life

769
00:26:33,224 –> 00:26:37,384
[Tamiko Toland]: just like you would have a a glide path with a regular target day fund and so

770
00:26:37,084 –> 00:26:38,084
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s

771
00:26:37,300 –> 00:26:38,300
[Paul Tyler]: how

772
00:26:37,784 –> 00:26:41,064
[Tamiko Toland]: how a lot of them actually work um so it’s

773
00:26:42,084 –> 00:26:43,084
[Tamiko Toland]: you know when you think about

774
00:26:43,118 –> 00:26:44,118
[Ramsey Smith]: about the

775
00:26:43,224 –> 00:26:46,744
[Tamiko Toland]: the the range of different participants and their ages it

776
00:26:46,340 –> 00:26:47,340
[Paul Tyler]: you

777
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty

778
00:26:46,824 –> 00:26:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: may be completely irrelevant if you’re thirty

779
00:26:46,898 –> 00:26:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: it maybe holiday

780
00:26:50,504 –> 00:26:51,864
[Tamiko Toland]: because you’re not going to be

781
00:26:52,598 –> 00:26:53,598
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

782
00:26:52,744 –> 00:26:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: investing in it yet you know you’re not going to be accumulating that future

783
00:26:55,764 –> 00:26:56,764
[Tamiko Toland]: income

784
00:26:57,244 –> 00:26:58,244
[Tamiko Toland]: yet

785
00:26:57,478 –> 00:26:58,478
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

786
00:26:58,264 –> 00:26:59,544
[Tamiko Toland]: knowing that that is something that

787
00:26:59,220 –> 00:27:00,220
[Paul Tyler]: y

788
00:26:59,704 –> 00:27:00,824
[Tamiko Toland]: will happen in the future

789
00:27:00,478 –> 00:27:01,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the future

790
00:27:01,484 –> 00:27:02,484
[Tamiko Toland]: can be quite

791
00:27:01,860 –> 00:27:02,860
[Paul Tyler]: we

792
00:27:02,424 –> 00:27:06,264
[Tamiko Toland]: reassuring to employees and it would be potentially an inducement to

793
00:27:05,860 –> 00:27:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: zero

794
00:27:06,264 –> 00:27:10,184
[Tamiko Toland]: stay at a company if you were considering you know going somewhere else so i

795
00:27:09,980 –> 00:27:10,980
[Paul Tyler]: ninety nine

796
00:27:10,238 –> 00:27:11,238
[Ramsey Smith]: ninety nine by

797
00:27:10,324 –> 00:27:11,324
[Tamiko Toland]: you know i i could see

798
00:27:11,740 –> 00:27:12,740
[Paul Tyler]: i get

799
00:27:12,184 –> 00:27:14,984
[Tamiko Toland]: again this goes more to the participants like

800
00:27:14,580 –> 00:27:15,580
[Paul Tyler]: like

801
00:27:15,144 –> 00:27:21,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the idea of income you know uh mindset as opposed to this is beneficial for the

802
00:27:20,964 –> 00:27:21,964
[Tamiko Toland]: sponsors i

803
00:27:21,460 –> 00:27:22,460
[Paul Tyler]: maybe

804
00:27:22,024 –> 00:27:23,864
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s beneficial for everybody frankly

805
00:27:24,518 –> 00:27:25,518
[Ramsey Smith]: so

806
00:27:25,120 –> 00:27:26,560
[Paul Tyler]: no i wanted to say that before

807
00:27:25,138 –> 00:27:29,298
[Ramsey Smith]: i wanted to pick up on what you were saying about staying in plan

808
00:27:30,338 –> 00:27:34,338
[Ramsey Smith]: and this is something that’s that’s been a particular interest to me and

809
00:27:35,538 –> 00:27:37,778
[Ramsey Smith]: i want to hear what you think about what the potential

810
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with

811
00:27:38,898 –> 00:27:43,138
[Ramsey Smith]: implications are well first of all what are the what is the motivation start with

812
00:27:39,060 –> 00:27:40,060
[Paul Tyler]: she

813
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know

814
00:27:43,458 –> 00:27:49,218
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation for for plan sponsors wanting to keep keep people in plan you know

815
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be

816
00:27:49,458 –> 00:27:54,658
[Ramsey Smith]: not just into retirement but through retirement then the second thing is would be

817
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might

818
00:27:55,378 –> 00:28:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you know what are the implications and requirements for them and how that might

819
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with

820
00:28:00,338 –> 00:28:04,338
[Ramsey Smith]: be different than what they’ve done in the past so let’s first start start with

821
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just

822
00:28:04,418 –> 00:28:09,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the motivation like why do you think a planned sponsor would not want to just

823
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like

824
00:28:09,938 –> 00:28:13,618
[Ramsey Smith]: wash their hands of the retiree once they leave the company like

825
00:28:14,738 –> 00:28:18,178
[Ramsey Smith]: why where are we now in a world where maybe they want to keep people in plan for

826
00:28:17,958 –> 00:28:18,958
[Ramsey Smith]: longer

827
00:28:19,404 –> 00:28:20,404
[Tamiko Toland]: well

828
00:28:20,000 –> 00:28:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: what do you breakfast

829
00:28:20,024 –> 00:28:24,664
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they are recognizing the advantages of scale right you keep more folks in

830
00:28:24,744 –> 00:28:28,904
[Tamiko Toland]: your you plan you have larger assets and then you were able to drive down costs i

831
00:28:28,984 –> 00:28:34,424
[Tamiko Toland]: mean that that’s a that’s a pretty basic dynamic from a pricing perspective

832
00:28:36,264 –> 00:28:39,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and like i say there’s blended models and what have you in terms of like what

833
00:28:39,784 –> 00:28:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: happens with the actual income component um

834
00:28:43,704 –> 00:28:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: and i i think there’s there’s always

835
00:28:46,000 –> 00:28:47,840
[Paul Tyler]: we we settled from

836
00:28:46,264 –> 00:28:49,704
[Tamiko Toland]: there are much more subtle conversations and probably differences among different

837
00:28:49,864 –> 00:28:52,504
[Tamiko Toland]: types of sponsors um you

838
00:28:52,124 –> 00:28:53,124
[Tamiko Toland]: know

839
00:28:52,180 –> 00:28:53,180
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

840
00:28:52,278 –> 00:28:53,278
[Ramsey Smith]: so

841
00:28:52,904 –> 00:28:56,984
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the traditional mindset has really been like you know oh this

842
00:28:57,380 –> 00:28:58,380
[Paul Tyler]: it

843
00:28:57,398 –> 00:28:58,398
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

844
00:28:57,624 –> 00:28:58,744
[Tamiko Toland]: participant isn’t

845
00:28:59,300 –> 00:29:00,300
[Paul Tyler]: even a work

846
00:28:59,304 –> 00:29:02,344
[Tamiko Toland]: isn’t a worker here anymore so we just we want

847
00:29:01,940 –> 00:29:02,940
[Paul Tyler]: what

848
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship

849
00:29:02,424 –> 00:29:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: to kind of sever that responsibility because it is a fiduciary relationship

850
00:29:06,844 –> 00:29:07,844
[Tamiko Toland]: um but

851
00:29:07,220 –> 00:29:08,220
[Paul Tyler]: like

852
00:29:07,718 –> 00:29:08,718
[Ramsey Smith]: but you

853
00:29:07,784 –> 00:29:11,784
[Tamiko Toland]: you know there there are advantages too frankly for the worker

854
00:29:12,664 –> 00:29:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that you know this i because it is a fiduciary relationship

855
00:29:12,720 –> 00:29:14,720
[Paul Tyler]: right but you could be

856
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get

857
00:29:17,304 –> 00:29:20,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know you may be able to take advantage of things you’re not gonna get

858
00:29:17,378 –> 00:29:18,738
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah maybe you

859
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so

860
00:29:20,664 –> 00:29:21,944
[Tamiko Toland]: elsewhere so

861
00:29:22,898 –> 00:29:26,178
[Ramsey Smith]: so sorry i wanna just just follow up on this paul so

862
00:29:26,838 –> 00:29:27,838
[Ramsey Smith]: so

863
00:29:27,420 –> 00:29:28,420
[Paul Tyler]: what weekend

864
00:29:27,458 –> 00:29:32,818
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m with you i’m with you and i and i i agree a it’s it’s it’s part and parcel

865
00:29:32,580 –> 00:29:33,580
[Paul Tyler]: what

866
00:29:32,978 –> 00:29:37,218
[Ramsey Smith]: why this is an attractive opportunity for plan sponsors and frankly for asset

867
00:29:37,298 –> 00:29:38,578
[Ramsey Smith]: managers and carriers

868
00:29:39,778 –> 00:29:43,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the one question though was so at that at that point of transition so you are a

869
00:29:43,938 –> 00:29:49,698
[Ramsey Smith]: fiduciary and you now want somebody to stay in plan you know after age sixty five

870
00:29:50,418 –> 00:29:54,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but now this person in theory can go a lot of other places right they can roll

871
00:29:54,498 –> 00:29:56,178
[Ramsey Smith]: over and go to you know any number

872
00:29:57,298 –> 00:30:03,938
[Ramsey Smith]: of sort of established you know asset manager sort of providers or broker broker

873
00:30:04,018 –> 00:30:09,138
[Ramsey Smith]: dealer providers who have these entire suites of services and so in some sense

874
00:30:09,378 –> 00:30:12,898
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re telling the person well you should stay here with what we offer the

875
00:30:13,058 –> 00:30:16,898
[Ramsey Smith]: service offering we have which may or may not be as expansive as all the other

876
00:30:17,058 –> 00:30:22,018
[Ramsey Smith]: things that they might do like is that is there a fiduciary responsibility there

877
00:30:22,258 –> 00:30:27,538
[Ramsey Smith]: that that is that is also quite different literally at the point of at the point

878
00:30:27,698 –> 00:30:31,698
[Ramsey Smith]: of transition and not just not just managing but but basically saying please stay

879
00:30:31,638 –> 00:30:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: as opposed to going

880
00:30:33,644 –> 00:30:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah and i

881
00:30:34,100 –> 00:30:35,100
[Paul Tyler]: i don’t know

882
00:30:34,344 –> 00:30:36,344
[Tamiko Toland]: don’t know that the rhetoric is you should stay

883
00:30:37,118 –> 00:30:38,118
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah right

884
00:30:37,260 –> 00:30:38,260
[Paul Tyler]: i think they’re

885
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve

886
00:30:37,384 –> 00:30:41,784
[Tamiko Toland]: i think they the rhetoric is much more hey this is the benefit that you’ve

887
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with

888
00:30:41,784 –> 00:30:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: accumulated and then you know you can make your own decision whether that’s with

889
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the

890
00:30:44,844 –> 00:30:45,844
[Tamiko Toland]: the

891
00:30:46,504 –> 00:30:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: with some some degree of guidance um or if that’s independent of that um and

892
00:30:51,684 –> 00:30:52,684
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s just information

893
00:30:53,544 –> 00:30:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s conveyed i mean there are a lot of

894
00:30:55,398 –> 00:30:56,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what

895
00:30:55,864 –> 00:30:57,544
[Tamiko Toland]: different models of how to do that but i

896
00:30:57,420 –> 00:30:58,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think that

897
00:30:57,704 –> 00:31:02,024
[Tamiko Toland]: i think the premise that it’s you should say because we want to keep your assets

898
00:31:02,104 –> 00:31:03,304
[Tamiko Toland]: in plan it is

899
00:31:03,544 –> 00:31:08,824
[Tamiko Toland]: probably not the way that i would think about it and also you know the rollover

900
00:31:03,600 –> 00:31:06,720
[Paul Tyler]: probably no week i about it i it also

901
00:31:09,064 –> 00:31:10,744
[Tamiko Toland]: situation right now is in flux

902
00:31:10,838 –> 00:31:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

903
00:31:11,224 –> 00:31:15,304
[Tamiko Toland]: and so the relative ease with which that can happen is like that

904
00:31:15,378 –> 00:31:17,618
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s i think that’s very important

905
00:31:16,000 –> 00:31:17,760
[Paul Tyler]: i think that that works

906
00:31:16,024 –> 00:31:17,944
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that’s a at question so

907
00:31:18,980 –> 00:31:19,980
[Paul Tyler]: very

908
00:31:19,464 –> 00:31:24,424
[Tamiko Toland]: there is more reason for the sponsors to be offering like good

909
00:31:25,704 –> 00:31:27,384
[Tamiko Toland]: options within their plans

910
00:31:28,164 –> 00:31:29,164
[Tamiko Toland]: right um

911
00:31:29,944 –> 00:31:32,584
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ll we’ll just see we’ll see how things evolve it’s just going to say you

912
00:31:32,664 –> 00:31:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: know adoptions not quick that and that’s reality

913
00:31:35,440 –> 00:31:36,560
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m trying to think if i

914
00:31:35,698 –> 00:31:40,338
[Ramsey Smith]: it’s just hard to figure out whether whether the new rollover rules create more

915
00:31:40,498 –> 00:31:45,458
[Ramsey Smith]: problems for the people that are trying to be rolled over into right or if they

916
00:31:45,060 –> 00:31:46,060
[Paul Tyler]: so

917
00:31:45,618 –> 00:31:51,298
[Ramsey Smith]: also create similar challenges for for for somebody that says don’t roll out

918
00:31:51,718 –> 00:31:52,718
[Ramsey Smith]: right that’s

919
00:31:53,858 –> 00:31:58,498
[Ramsey Smith]: these are open issues but uh it’s the complexity the complexity is striking to me

920
00:31:58,800 –> 00:32:03,760
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i think for our listeners who are independent agents or advisors

921
00:32:05,200 –> 00:32:10,240
[Paul Tyler]: you know the plus is the employers have started that income conversation

922
00:32:11,078 –> 00:32:12,078
[Ramsey Smith]: so

923
00:32:11,120 –> 00:32:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: temco in a way that they at least start to understand they all understood asset

924
00:32:15,520 –> 00:32:19,840
[Paul Tyler]: allocation now they’re starting to understand income rams you brought up a really

925
00:32:20,000 –> 00:32:24,080
[Paul Tyler]: good question which is wow this would be really difficult to roll over you know

926
00:32:24,160 –> 00:32:25,600
[Paul Tyler]: we already have some some

927
00:32:26,640 –> 00:32:31,520
[Paul Tyler]: you know rules from the dol you know coming in to making it very difficult to do

928
00:32:31,580 –> 00:32:32,580
[Paul Tyler]: this properly but

929
00:32:34,560 –> 00:32:38,080
[Paul Tyler]: now you i’ve got a little bit of tension you know with some of the plan providers

930
00:32:38,800 –> 00:32:39,840
[Paul Tyler]: and where that money’s going

931
00:32:43,804 –> 00:32:44,804
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that would

932
00:32:44,420 –> 00:32:45,420
[Paul Tyler]: we

933
00:32:44,824 –> 00:32:45,944
[Tamiko Toland]: be more true if we

934
00:32:45,700 –> 00:32:46,700
[Paul Tyler]: had

935
00:32:46,104 –> 00:32:49,784
[Tamiko Toland]: had current wider adoption of lifetime income within

936
00:32:49,540 –> 00:32:50,540
[Paul Tyler]: like

937
00:32:49,864 –> 00:32:52,184
[Tamiko Toland]: plants and it’s just that it’s it’s not significant

938
00:32:53,224 –> 00:32:55,784
[Tamiko Toland]: right we we need to see more of it and

939
00:32:56,364 –> 00:32:57,364
[Tamiko Toland]: it

940
00:32:58,284 –> 00:32:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: the

941
00:32:58,660 –> 00:32:59,660
[Paul Tyler]: like

942
00:32:58,904 –> 00:33:01,624
[Tamiko Toland]: cycle of getting things adopted is very

943
00:33:01,380 –> 00:33:02,380
[Paul Tyler]: very different

944
00:33:01,784 –> 00:33:06,824
[Tamiko Toland]: different from simply selling somebody an annuity in the retail space right so i

945
00:33:07,544 –> 00:33:09,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i don’t see that as being a

946
00:33:10,424 –> 00:33:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: a present issue and we don’t know actually what will ultimately happen as far as

947
00:33:16,184 –> 00:33:21,784
[Tamiko Toland]: rollovers out of plans so i you know we can we can speculate we want about that

948
00:33:21,220 –> 00:33:22,220
[Paul Tyler]: about that

949
00:33:23,040 –> 00:33:24,480
[Paul Tyler]: i never said what

950
00:33:23,064 –> 00:33:26,904
[Tamiko Toland]: i mean i think that a lot of this conversation frankly and i’ve i’ve said this

951
00:33:27,064 –> 00:33:32,664
[Tamiko Toland]: whole time and with uh the lifetime income illustrations that are going to be

952
00:33:32,744 –> 00:33:35,064
[Tamiko Toland]: peering on people’s four o one k statements

953
00:33:35,484 –> 00:33:36,484
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s

954
00:33:35,580 –> 00:33:36,580
[Paul Tyler]: i know

955
00:33:35,878 –> 00:33:36,878
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s all

956
00:33:36,184 –> 00:33:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: all of an opportunity for retail right

957
00:33:38,998 –> 00:33:39,998
[Ramsey Smith]: dr

958
00:33:39,624 –> 00:33:41,224
[Tamiko Toland]: because you know when you see

959
00:33:40,900 –> 00:33:41,900
[Paul Tyler]: see oh

960
00:33:40,924 –> 00:33:41,924
[Tamiko Toland]: oh

961
00:33:41,544 –> 00:33:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i my four o one k could turn into this

962
00:33:41,618 –> 00:33:43,298
[Ramsey Smith]: oh i like he’s good

963
00:33:44,598 –> 00:33:45,598
[Ramsey Smith]: your

964
00:33:44,724 –> 00:33:45,724
[Tamiko Toland]: guaranteed income

965
00:33:46,844 –> 00:33:47,844
[Tamiko Toland]: yet

966
00:33:47,060 –> 00:33:48,060
[Paul Tyler]: they

967
00:33:47,464 –> 00:33:50,824
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s literally no way to possibly do that within my existing plan

968
00:33:50,980 –> 00:33:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: break

969
00:33:51,324 –> 00:33:52,324
[Tamiko Toland]: right so when

970
00:33:53,544 –> 00:33:56,024
[Tamiko Toland]: when you you you run into this logistical challenge

971
00:33:56,664 –> 00:34:00,584
[Tamiko Toland]: but you start thinking about what to do with your retirement savings in a

972
00:33:56,720 –> 00:33:58,080
[Paul Tyler]: like think about

973
00:34:00,664 –> 00:34:03,064
[Tamiko Toland]: different way you know like i say i think that that is a

974
00:34:02,660 –> 00:34:03,660
[Paul Tyler]: g

975
00:34:03,144 –> 00:34:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: great opportunity in the face of some potential

976
00:34:06,500 –> 00:34:07,500
[Paul Tyler]: right

977
00:34:06,984 –> 00:34:12,584
[Tamiko Toland]: compliance challenges right so there’s a lot of forces at play right now for sure

978
00:34:13,440 –> 00:34:14,560
[Paul Tyler]: now there are a

979
00:34:14,118 –> 00:34:15,118
[Ramsey Smith]: are

980
00:34:14,640 –> 00:34:18,720
[Paul Tyler]: large number of big plans like you described like raytheon with

981
00:34:20,140 –> 00:34:21,140
[Paul Tyler]: good hr

982
00:34:20,598 –> 00:34:21,598
[Ramsey Smith]: t

983
00:34:20,900 –> 00:34:21,900
[Paul Tyler]: benefits

984
00:34:22,880 –> 00:34:28,320
[Paul Tyler]: professionals tremendous support from from advisors for the plan but they are

985
00:34:28,480 –> 00:34:32,720
[Paul Tyler]: like a lot more small plants with fewer participants

986
00:34:32,684 –> 00:34:33,684
[Tamiko Toland]: just

987
00:34:34,000 –> 00:34:39,120
[Paul Tyler]: tim k do you think the equation or how sponsors are going to think about it will

988
00:34:39,280 –> 00:34:42,560
[Paul Tyler]: change when you start to go down and maybe you only have ten employees maybe have

989
00:34:42,720 –> 00:34:47,680
[Paul Tyler]: fifteen employees um do you think the adoption challenge will be any different or

990
00:34:47,920 –> 00:34:51,760
[Paul Tyler]: will it’ll be just effectively same set of considerations

991
00:34:53,484 –> 00:34:54,484
[Tamiko Toland]: well i think you know

992
00:34:56,344 –> 00:35:00,664
[Tamiko Toland]: really what’s going to happen is we’re going to see an increase in adoption right

993
00:35:00,844 –> 00:35:01,844
[Tamiko Toland]: it it

994
00:35:01,260 –> 00:35:02,260
[Paul Tyler]: eating

995
00:35:01,544 –> 00:35:05,384
[Tamiko Toland]: is going to happen for sure is it is happening right now but

996
00:35:04,980 –> 00:35:05,980
[Paul Tyler]: what

997
00:35:05,078 –> 00:35:06,078
[Ramsey Smith]: what

998
00:35:05,204 –> 00:35:06,204
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s um

999
00:35:06,100 –> 00:35:07,100
[Paul Tyler]: that

1000
00:35:06,504 –> 00:35:12,344
[Tamiko Toland]: as that picks up i think it will make um make it more of a competitive issue for

1001
00:35:12,044 –> 00:35:13,044
[Tamiko Toland]: than

1002
00:35:12,260 –> 00:35:13,260
[Paul Tyler]: that

1003
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all

1004
00:35:12,744 –> 00:35:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: it shifts to making a competitive issue for employers right in addition to all

1005
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be

1006
00:35:17,704 –> 00:35:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: the other reasons that people should be or you know plant sponsor should be

1007
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly

1008
00:35:21,624 –> 00:35:25,704
[Tamiko Toland]: considering it and i think we’ll see more solutions that are particularly

1009
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more

1010
00:35:25,784 –> 00:35:31,144
[Tamiko Toland]: tailored for that market right so you know some of them are really designed more

1011
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons

1012
00:35:31,304 –> 00:35:33,864
[Tamiko Toland]: for the larger plants for i think obvious reasons

1013
00:35:35,064 –> 00:35:38,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’ve seen availability for smaller plans but then adoptions low because

1014
00:35:38,364 –> 00:35:39,364
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re not necessarily they

1015
00:35:39,398 –> 00:35:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1016
00:35:39,864 –> 00:35:44,664
[Tamiko Toland]: may include it in the plan but it’s not the qa and so like that’s

1017
00:35:44,824 –> 00:35:47,864
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s like the big shift i think for everyone and and we

1018
00:35:44,898 –> 00:35:46,418
[Ramsey Smith]: like that that’s like the

1019
00:35:44,940 –> 00:35:45,940
[Paul Tyler]: not se

1020
00:35:47,944 –> 00:35:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: whether that’s an appropriate choice for a small sponsor that’s

1021
00:35:48,000 –> 00:35:49,280
[Paul Tyler]: it was a hurry

1022
00:35:50,980 –> 00:35:51,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

1023
00:35:51,144 –> 00:35:52,264
[Tamiko Toland]: a different question i i’m

1024
00:35:52,620 –> 00:35:53,620
[Paul Tyler]: yeah i’m not think it is

1025
00:35:52,664 –> 00:35:54,184
[Tamiko Toland]: not saying it is or isn’t um

1026
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees

1027
00:35:54,904 –> 00:35:58,504
[Tamiko Toland]: but i think that that’s a thing to think about when you have very few employees

1028
00:35:54,960 –> 00:35:57,360
[Paul Tyler]: oh but i think i think about

1029
00:36:00,024 –> 00:36:01,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you’re gonna be thinking about their

1030
00:36:00,900 –> 00:36:01,900
[Paul Tyler]: saturday

1031
00:36:01,224 –> 00:36:03,384
[Tamiko Toland]: needs really differently and much more

1032
00:36:05,144 –> 00:36:10,344
[Tamiko Toland]: for those individuals and you know then let’s think about peps and and what have

1033
00:36:10,044 –> 00:36:11,044
[Tamiko Toland]: you

1034
00:36:10,740 –> 00:36:11,740
[Paul Tyler]: like

1035
00:36:10,804 –> 00:36:11,804
[Tamiko Toland]: but um

1036
00:36:12,404 –> 00:36:13,404
[Tamiko Toland]: you know it

1037
00:36:12,844 –> 00:36:13,844
[Tamiko Toland]: like

1038
00:36:13,060 –> 00:36:14,060
[Paul Tyler]: like

1039
00:36:13,138 –> 00:36:15,058
[Ramsey Smith]: you know it’s like a different type of story

1040
00:36:13,464 –> 00:36:15,864
[Tamiko Toland]: i say it’s a different set of considerations in the space

1041
00:36:15,460 –> 00:36:16,460
[Paul Tyler]: see

1042
00:36:16,404 –> 00:36:17,404
[Tamiko Toland]: and that

1043
00:36:16,980 –> 00:36:17,980
[Paul Tyler]: that one

1044
00:36:17,138 –> 00:36:18,578
[Ramsey Smith]: and c sp

1045
00:36:17,224 –> 00:36:22,184
[Tamiko Toland]: learning curve which is one of the reasons that you know we really uh wanted to

1046
00:36:21,844 –> 00:36:22,844
[Tamiko Toland]: see the

1047
00:36:22,220 –> 00:36:23,220
[Paul Tyler]: you like

1048
00:36:22,504 –> 00:36:24,024
[Tamiko Toland]: lifetime income consortium come

1049
00:36:23,700 –> 00:36:24,700
[Paul Tyler]: yeah

1050
00:36:24,184 –> 00:36:28,344
[Tamiko Toland]: together because we can get the education out there you know it’s a large group

1051
00:36:28,584 –> 00:36:30,344
[Tamiko Toland]: of very very different solution

1052
00:36:30,744 –> 00:36:32,024
[Tamiko Toland]: providers that are

1053
00:36:31,040 –> 00:36:32,240
[Paul Tyler]: was saturd

1054
00:36:31,638 –> 00:36:32,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1055
00:36:32,264 –> 00:36:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: you know really deciding that it’s more important for them to work in concert

1056
00:36:38,678 –> 00:36:39,678
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1057
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education

1058
00:36:39,544 –> 00:36:41,544
[Tamiko Toland]: to get the message out to improve education

1059
00:36:42,744 –> 00:36:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and to reduce some of the the compliance hurdles

1060
00:36:47,118 –> 00:36:48,118
[Ramsey Smith]: so how

1061
00:36:47,780 –> 00:36:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: how do you think about it

1062
00:36:47,858 –> 00:36:52,658
[Ramsey Smith]: do you think about you know the mandate of of this new organization versus there

1063
00:36:52,738 –> 00:36:56,018
[Ramsey Smith]: are some other educational organizations in the space right

1064
00:36:55,964 –> 00:36:56,964
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

1065
00:36:56,738 –> 00:37:00,338
[Ramsey Smith]: there’s the alliance for lifelong income there’s limma the all friends of the

1066
00:37:00,198 –> 00:37:01,198
[Ramsey Smith]: show by the way

1067
00:37:01,644 –> 00:37:02,644
[Tamiko Toland]: yeah

1068
00:37:03,298 –> 00:37:05,698
[Ramsey Smith]: uh curious how like you view

1069
00:37:06,738 –> 00:37:10,498
[Ramsey Smith]: the mandate of this consortium as being

1070
00:37:10,204 –> 00:37:11,204
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1071
00:37:10,658 –> 00:37:14,898
[Ramsey Smith]: different or what’s the sort of unique element that you guys are focusing on

1072
00:37:16,338 –> 00:37:19,938
[Ramsey Smith]: is it the complete focus on this one particular space is there anything else

1073
00:37:20,098 –> 00:37:21,138
[Ramsey Smith]: about it stylistically

1074
00:37:22,738 –> 00:37:25,378
[Ramsey Smith]: that’s part of your mo that you can share with us

1075
00:37:26,204 –> 00:37:27,204
[Tamiko Toland]: sure

1076
00:37:26,780 –> 00:37:27,780
[Paul Tyler]: sure i mean i think

1077
00:37:26,904 –> 00:37:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: i you know i think you

1078
00:37:28,984 –> 00:37:31,544
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re also very friendly with the other

1079
00:37:29,040 –> 00:37:31,920
[Paul Tyler]: we’re also great friends the other one

1080
00:37:31,878 –> 00:37:32,878
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1081
00:37:31,884 –> 00:37:32,884
[Tamiko Toland]: organizations out there

1082
00:37:33,964 –> 00:37:34,964
[Tamiko Toland]: and

1083
00:37:34,598 –> 00:37:35,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and yeah

1084
00:37:34,604 –> 00:37:35,604
[Tamiko Toland]: yes

1085
00:37:35,140 –> 00:37:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: get married

1086
00:37:35,384 –> 00:37:37,944
[Tamiko Toland]: education is a component of what we’re doing

1087
00:37:39,064 –> 00:37:42,664
[Tamiko Toland]: but we’re not an educational organization we’re we’re actually our

1088
00:37:42,460 –> 00:37:43,460
[Paul Tyler]: mm hm

1089
00:37:42,804 –> 00:37:43,804
[Tamiko Toland]: goal is commercial

1090
00:37:44,078 –> 00:37:45,078
[Ramsey Smith]: there we go

1091
00:37:44,504 –> 00:37:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and commercially we want to see

1092
00:37:48,104 –> 00:37:50,504
[Tamiko Toland]: broader adoption of these solutions and

1093
00:37:50,420 –> 00:37:51,420
[Paul Tyler]: so it

1094
00:37:50,664 –> 00:37:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: so it’s a commercial

1095
00:37:52,824 –> 00:37:54,904
[Tamiko Toland]: look at the problem not simply throwing out

1096
00:37:54,678 –> 00:37:55,678
[Ramsey Smith]: got

1097
00:37:55,064 –> 00:37:58,184
[Tamiko Toland]: education but education saying okay well what are the challenges how

1098
00:37:58,140 –> 00:37:59,140
[Paul Tyler]: how c

1099
00:37:58,264 –> 00:37:59,704
[Tamiko Toland]: can we help close those gaps

1100
00:37:59,844 –> 00:38:00,844
[Tamiko Toland]: and then

1101
00:38:00,320 –> 00:38:02,000
[Paul Tyler]: and then where are their an

1102
00:38:00,398 –> 00:38:01,398
[Ramsey Smith]: and we

1103
00:38:00,584 –> 00:38:05,224
[Tamiko Toland]: you know where are their actual like logistical adoption issues like say with the

1104
00:38:05,304 –> 00:38:08,744
[Tamiko Toland]: record keepers right ’cause the record keepers are the ones that

1105
00:38:08,340 –> 00:38:09,340
[Paul Tyler]: that

1106
00:38:08,978 –> 00:38:10,098
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah like you

1107
00:38:09,224 –> 00:38:11,064
[Tamiko Toland]: frankly are holding the keys on this

1108
00:38:11,380 –> 00:38:12,380
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1109
00:38:11,784 –> 00:38:13,304
[Tamiko Toland]: ultimately right

1110
00:38:13,220 –> 00:38:14,220
[Paul Tyler]: and

1111
00:38:13,624 –> 00:38:14,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know they

1112
00:38:14,804 –> 00:38:15,804
[Tamiko Toland]: are they are

1113
00:38:14,880 –> 00:38:16,080
[Paul Tyler]: they they are not

1114
00:38:15,478 –> 00:38:16,478
[Ramsey Smith]: they are

1115
00:38:15,864 –> 00:38:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: not jumping into the pool

1116
00:38:18,924 –> 00:38:19,924
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1117
00:38:19,318 –> 00:38:20,318
[Ramsey Smith]: spray

1118
00:38:19,784 –> 00:38:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: and so you know

1119
00:38:20,660 –> 00:38:21,660
[Paul Tyler]: got

1120
00:38:20,724 –> 00:38:21,724
[Tamiko Toland]: that is

1121
00:38:23,224 –> 00:38:27,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s a concern that we’re all listening to and we just want to make sure that all

1122
00:38:27,384 –> 00:38:28,504
[Tamiko Toland]: the dots are lining up

1123
00:38:29,544 –> 00:38:32,104
[Tamiko Toland]: to make this a reality and we want to hear from

1124
00:38:33,304 –> 00:38:35,464
[Tamiko Toland]: from the folks that are are really in the front

1125
00:38:35,140 –> 00:38:36,140
[Paul Tyler]: why

1126
00:38:35,544 –> 00:38:36,824
[Tamiko Toland]: lines and

1127
00:38:36,740 –> 00:38:37,740
[Paul Tyler]: you

1128
00:38:36,984 –> 00:38:40,664
[Tamiko Toland]: hearing the objections dealing with those challenges to help

1129
00:38:40,260 –> 00:38:41,260
[Paul Tyler]: help

1130
00:38:40,904 –> 00:38:42,344
[Tamiko Toland]: solve those challenges so

1131
00:38:42,980 –> 00:38:43,980
[Paul Tyler]: where you

1132
00:38:43,064 –> 00:38:46,504
[Tamiko Toland]: we’re just in year one right of the consortium so we’re just

1133
00:38:46,744 –> 00:38:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: establishing really the basics and then that work will continue and one of the

1134
00:38:46,838 –> 00:38:47,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1135
00:38:50,564 –> 00:38:51,564
[Tamiko Toland]: issues too is

1136
00:38:51,078 –> 00:38:52,078
[Ramsey Smith]: two

1137
00:38:51,544 –> 00:38:56,504
[Tamiko Toland]: like how do you compare these different solutions and how do you make a selection

1138
00:38:56,584 –> 00:39:00,424
[Tamiko Toland]: and that’s something that that we’re working on from an analytical perspective

1139
00:39:01,064 –> 00:39:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: right that saying well what kind of quantitative support is there the conclusion

1140
00:39:05,564 –> 00:39:06,564
[Tamiko Toland]: is

1141
00:39:05,804 –> 00:39:06,804
[Tamiko Toland]: never

1142
00:39:05,860 –> 00:39:06,860
[Paul Tyler]: never

1143
00:39:06,278 –> 00:39:07,278
[Ramsey Smith]: never did

1144
00:39:06,664 –> 00:39:07,784
[Tamiko Toland]: there’s one best

1145
00:39:08,684 –> 00:39:09,684
[Tamiko Toland]: solution

1146
00:39:09,964 –> 00:39:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: right there

1147
00:39:10,738 –> 00:39:12,498
[Ramsey Smith]: like they need to work different

1148
00:39:10,984 –> 00:39:12,824
[Tamiko Toland]: solutions are to work differently in different

1149
00:39:12,660 –> 00:39:13,660
[Paul Tyler]: we

1150
00:39:12,804 –> 00:39:13,804
[Tamiko Toland]: ways and

1151
00:39:13,598 –> 00:39:14,598
[Ramsey Smith]: and was very

1152
00:39:13,784 –> 00:39:17,704
[Tamiko Toland]: what’s very important is for people to have some quantitative basis to say well

1153
00:39:17,398 –> 00:39:18,398
[Ramsey Smith]: people

1154
00:39:17,884 –> 00:39:18,884
[Tamiko Toland]: this is better in this

1155
00:39:18,838 –> 00:39:19,838
[Ramsey Smith]: the car

1156
00:39:18,904 –> 00:39:20,664
[Tamiko Toland]: regard and then but this

1157
00:39:20,744 –> 00:39:24,504
[Tamiko Toland]: one’s better in this regard what works best for for our

1158
00:39:20,798 –> 00:39:21,798
[Ramsey Smith]: is instead of

1159
00:39:24,100 –> 00:39:25,100
[Paul Tyler]: r

1160
00:39:24,924 –> 00:39:25,924
[Tamiko Toland]: you know

1161
00:39:25,380 –> 00:39:26,380
[Paul Tyler]: what

1162
00:39:25,704 –> 00:39:27,224
[Tamiko Toland]: worker population and

1163
00:39:27,300 –> 00:39:28,300
[Paul Tyler]: that

1164
00:39:27,544 –> 00:39:30,504
[Tamiko Toland]: that’s the kind of decision making that we really want to support a can

1165
00:39:31,280 –> 00:39:35,760
[Paul Tyler]: okay so here here’s literally a million dollar question just set it up i was at

1166
00:39:35,840 –> 00:39:40,400
[Paul Tyler]: an insure tech conference here monday ramsay we actually had former guests there

1167
00:39:40,480 –> 00:39:43,440
[Paul Tyler]: at this event new york so jerry golden was there spent some time with

1168
00:39:43,318 –> 00:39:44,318
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1169
00:39:43,520 –> 00:39:49,440
[Paul Tyler]: jerry our friends remaining best a m s t v was broadcasting there you missed but

1170
00:39:50,240 –> 00:39:54,240
[Paul Tyler]: actually people came up and talked to us better me about our show so we’re uh you

1171
00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:55,920
[Paul Tyler]: crossing a lot of wires here

1172
00:39:55,478 –> 00:39:56,478
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1173
00:39:56,080 –> 00:40:02,320
[Paul Tyler]: but temco we took out some very prominent vcs for dinner night before and the

1174
00:40:02,400 –> 00:40:06,080
[Paul Tyler]: question i got was yeah i’m reading about this and hearing about this paul but

1175
00:40:06,240 –> 00:40:08,400
[Paul Tyler]: like when you know is this a

1176
00:40:09,260 –> 00:40:10,260
[Paul Tyler]: when is this

1177
00:40:09,638 –> 00:40:10,638
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1178
00:40:10,060 –> 00:40:11,060
[Paul Tyler]: going to be a meaningful market

1179
00:40:10,838 –> 00:40:11,838
[Ramsey Smith]: work

1180
00:40:11,280 –> 00:40:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: is it three years five years ten years from now to invest i mean what’s

1181
00:40:15,558 –> 00:40:16,558
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1182
00:40:16,000 –> 00:40:17,360
[Paul Tyler]: your what’s your

1183
00:40:17,278 –> 00:40:18,278
[Ramsey Smith]: your respect

1184
00:40:17,440 –> 00:40:19,200
[Paul Tyler]: perspective like when will

1185
00:40:20,400 –> 00:40:24,640
[Paul Tyler]: this be a material a business that you know people are going to fund a lot of the

1186
00:40:24,720 –> 00:40:27,280
[Paul Tyler]: businesses that are making big bets in the space

1187
00:40:30,044 –> 00:40:31,044
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1188
00:40:31,944 –> 00:40:33,784
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s a it’s a slow play

1189
00:40:33,478 –> 00:40:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: one

1190
00:40:33,644 –> 00:40:34,644
[Tamiko Toland]: still

1191
00:40:34,904 –> 00:40:38,744
[Tamiko Toland]: honestly like it’s not like all of a sudden everybody’s gonna start throwing this

1192
00:40:35,218 –> 00:40:36,978
[Ramsey Smith]: ho not like all the

1193
00:40:38,824 –> 00:40:42,584
[Tamiko Toland]: on their plans and my feeling is a and i

1194
00:40:42,404 –> 00:40:43,404
[Tamiko Toland]: think this gets

1195
00:40:42,540 –> 00:40:43,540
[Paul Tyler]: i think it’s

1196
00:40:42,918 –> 00:40:43,918
[Ramsey Smith]: get

1197
00:40:43,224 –> 00:40:45,224
[Tamiko Toland]: missed a little bit with like the

1198
00:40:44,918 –> 00:40:45,918
[Ramsey Smith]: like that

1199
00:40:45,464 –> 00:40:48,184
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsay’s press release survey right a lot

1200
00:40:47,780 –> 00:40:48,780
[Paul Tyler]: what

1201
00:40:48,264 –> 00:40:51,784
[Tamiko Toland]: of the companies that are really engaged now have been engaged for a very long

1202
00:40:51,484 –> 00:40:52,484
[Tamiko Toland]: time

1203
00:40:53,304 –> 00:40:54,344
[Tamiko Toland]: right and

1204
00:40:54,498 –> 00:40:56,258
[Ramsey Smith]: and they feel that

1205
00:40:55,224 –> 00:40:57,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they feel like this is an important opportunity

1206
00:40:58,284 –> 00:40:59,284
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1207
00:40:58,998 –> 00:40:59,998
[Ramsey Smith]: um

1208
00:40:59,644 –> 00:41:00,644
[Tamiko Toland]: but

1209
00:40:59,700 –> 00:41:00,700
[Paul Tyler]: like

1210
00:40:59,878 –> 00:41:00,878
[Ramsey Smith]: what

1211
00:41:01,224 –> 00:41:02,584
[Tamiko Toland]: uh you know when

1212
00:41:02,278 –> 00:41:03,278
[Ramsey Smith]: it would

1213
00:41:02,664 –> 00:41:03,944
[Tamiko Toland]: you’ve been doing it for a

1214
00:41:03,860 –> 00:41:04,860
[Paul Tyler]: decade

1215
00:41:04,024 –> 00:41:05,944
[Tamiko Toland]: decade or perhaps longer

1216
00:41:06,740 –> 00:41:07,740
[Paul Tyler]: and not quite she

1217
00:41:06,744 –> 00:41:11,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and not quite nailed it i mean there’s a lot of conviction around the space and

1218
00:41:12,024 –> 00:41:14,184
[Tamiko Toland]: being present and planting the flag

1219
00:41:15,224 –> 00:41:16,344
[Tamiko Toland]: where you know i don’t

1220
00:41:16,038 –> 00:41:17,038
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t

1221
00:41:16,424 –> 00:41:20,024
[Tamiko Toland]: think the expectation is oh yeah we’re gonna be getting our money back in the

1222
00:41:20,104 –> 00:41:21,544
[Tamiko Toland]: next year or two right

1223
00:41:21,140 –> 00:41:22,140
[Paul Tyler]: great

1224
00:41:22,504 –> 00:41:23,544
[Tamiko Toland]: um so

1225
00:41:24,444 –> 00:41:25,444
[Tamiko Toland]: it it’s

1226
00:41:26,244 –> 00:41:27,244
[Tamiko Toland]: i think

1227
00:41:26,420 –> 00:41:27,420
[Paul Tyler]: i think it

1228
00:41:26,558 –> 00:41:27,558
[Ramsey Smith]: i think

1229
00:41:26,984 –> 00:41:29,304
[Tamiko Toland]: at at a high level firms

1230
00:41:29,620 –> 00:41:30,620
[Paul Tyler]: like

1231
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be

1232
00:41:29,784 –> 00:41:31,784
[Tamiko Toland]: decide this is where we want to be

1233
00:41:32,524 –> 00:41:33,524
[Tamiko Toland]: right

1234
00:41:32,758 –> 00:41:33,758
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1235
00:41:32,820 –> 00:41:33,820
[Paul Tyler]: right yeah

1236
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you

1237
00:41:33,544 –> 00:41:34,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and if you

1238
00:41:35,884 –> 00:41:36,884
[Tamiko Toland]: if you need to

1239
00:41:37,864 –> 00:41:39,944
[Tamiko Toland]: like replenish the coffers quickly i

1240
00:41:40,020 –> 00:41:41,020
[Paul Tyler]: i think it still

1241
00:41:40,024 –> 00:41:43,944
[Tamiko Toland]: think it’s it’s still going to be tough because it’s still very very difficult to

1242
00:41:44,204 –> 00:41:45,204
[Tamiko Toland]: predict

1243
00:41:44,978 –> 00:41:48,658
[Ramsey Smith]: predict health it is not a really fast

1244
00:41:44,984 –> 00:41:49,624
[Tamiko Toland]: and history tells us that this is not a really fast moving space right

1245
00:41:49,478 –> 00:41:50,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1246
00:41:49,760 –> 00:41:51,440
[Paul Tyler]: crazy i think

1247
00:41:50,204 –> 00:41:51,204
[Tamiko Toland]: um but i i mean i

1248
00:41:50,998 –> 00:41:51,998
[Ramsey Smith]: i mean i think that

1249
00:41:51,144 –> 00:41:53,064
[Tamiko Toland]: think the opportunity is obviously still there

1250
00:41:52,838 –> 00:41:53,838
[Ramsey Smith]: there

1251
00:41:53,464 –> 00:41:55,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and we’re getting so close like it really

1252
00:41:55,538 –> 00:41:58,738
[Ramsey Smith]: you do like really a once but i’m talking

1253
00:41:55,624 –> 00:41:59,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it feels like we’re really on the cusp but on the cusp of something that’s still

1254
00:41:59,318 –> 00:42:00,318
[Ramsey Smith]: really

1255
00:41:59,464 –> 00:42:02,104
[Tamiko Toland]: relatively slow moving right and

1256
00:42:01,540 –> 00:42:02,540
[Paul Tyler]: right and

1257
00:42:03,144 –> 00:42:06,504
[Tamiko Toland]: you know especially large punches want to see what the other ones are doing like

1258
00:42:06,204 –> 00:42:07,204
[Tamiko Toland]: what

1259
00:42:06,420 –> 00:42:07,420
[Paul Tyler]: what

1260
00:42:06,904 –> 00:42:08,664
[Tamiko Toland]: oh what choices are you making you know how

1261
00:42:08,364 –> 00:42:09,364
[Tamiko Toland]: are you

1262
00:42:08,500 –> 00:42:09,500
[Paul Tyler]: i mean

1263
00:42:08,798 –> 00:42:09,798
[Ramsey Smith]: how are you

1264
00:42:09,064 –> 00:42:13,864
[Tamiko Toland]: implementing this how did that go right and i think that that experience feeds

1265
00:42:14,024 –> 00:42:15,944
[Tamiko Toland]: into the willingness of others to jump

1266
00:42:15,638 –> 00:42:16,638
[Ramsey Smith]: ju

1267
00:42:15,924 –> 00:42:16,924
[Tamiko Toland]: into it because it’s not

1268
00:42:16,420 –> 00:42:17,420
[Paul Tyler]: not

1269
00:42:16,824 –> 00:42:17,864
[Tamiko Toland]: simply about saying oh great

1270
00:42:17,678 –> 00:42:18,678
[Ramsey Smith]: hungry

1271
00:42:18,024 –> 00:42:19,064
[Tamiko Toland]: you know we’re gonna pick this thing

1272
00:42:21,860 –> 00:42:22,860
[Paul Tyler]: ramsey

1273
00:42:22,438 –> 00:42:23,438
[Ramsey Smith]: all right

1274
00:42:22,800 –> 00:42:27,360
[Paul Tyler]: we’re we’re we’re kind of the top of top of the the hour here i don’t know final

1275
00:42:27,760 –> 00:42:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: thoughts questions here

1276
00:42:28,978 –> 00:42:35,618
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah so much so much to chew on there um i was you know i was really struck by

1277
00:42:35,858 –> 00:42:41,778
[Ramsey Smith]: your comment about sort of the culture here the culture of the target audience

1278
00:42:41,858 –> 00:42:45,058
[Ramsey Smith]: and if you think about the there’s two target audiences right the first one is

1279
00:42:45,618 –> 00:42:47,858
[Ramsey Smith]: the plan sponsors the folks that are holding the

1280
00:42:49,218 –> 00:42:53,938
[Ramsey Smith]: that have the assets then the ultimate target obviously is the end conser but

1281
00:42:55,938 –> 00:43:00,178
[Ramsey Smith]: you pointed out quite rightly so that you have all the people that are in

1282
00:43:00,338 –> 00:43:01,378
[Ramsey Smith]: decision making position

1283
00:43:02,978 –> 00:43:08,178
[Ramsey Smith]: don’t necessarily have a culture of of talking about income at maybe the the

1284
00:43:08,258 –> 00:43:12,098
[Ramsey Smith]: depth that it needs to be for them to be comfortable to move forward with things

1285
00:43:12,178 –> 00:43:17,378
[Ramsey Smith]: like this so it’ll be it’s just an interesting uh conundrum to figure out how to

1286
00:43:17,538 –> 00:43:21,618
[Ramsey Smith]: how to how to get past that point is it the same people be getting educated is it

1287
00:43:21,698 –> 00:43:23,778
[Ramsey Smith]: new people in those roles i don’t know

1288
00:43:24,818 –> 00:43:28,418
[Ramsey Smith]: but that that is of the many of the many interesting things you said that’s the

1289
00:43:28,418 –> 00:43:31,778
[Ramsey Smith]: one that sticks with me because i feel like that’s that’s often the hardest thing

1290
00:43:31,598 –> 00:43:32,598
[Ramsey Smith]: to overcome

1291
00:43:34,844 –> 00:43:35,844
[Tamiko Toland]: but it’s

1292
00:43:35,420 –> 00:43:36,420
[Paul Tyler]: i need know

1293
00:43:35,704 –> 00:43:39,304
[Tamiko Toland]: it’s an opportunity as well for the intermediaries

1294
00:43:39,398 –> 00:43:40,398
[Ramsey Smith]: sure

1295
00:43:40,344 –> 00:43:45,704
[Tamiko Toland]: and let’s not let that point get lost right um ’cause when you talk to folks

1296
00:43:45,784 –> 00:43:47,464
[Tamiko Toland]: about like target date funds

1297
00:43:48,504 –> 00:43:50,264
[Tamiko Toland]: and you know people who missed the

1298
00:43:49,940 –> 00:43:50,940
[Paul Tyler]: w

1299
00:43:50,264 –> 00:43:52,104
[Tamiko Toland]: bus really missed the bus on that

1300
00:43:52,764 –> 00:43:53,764
[Tamiko Toland]: so

1301
00:43:53,220 –> 00:43:54,220
[Paul Tyler]: do i think that

1302
00:43:53,384 –> 00:43:57,144
[Tamiko Toland]: i think that the same the same goes for in common and

1303
00:43:58,904 –> 00:44:00,504
[Tamiko Toland]: even if you have not been

1304
00:44:00,100 –> 00:44:01,100
[Paul Tyler]: sh

1305
00:44:00,484 –> 00:44:01,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a passionate

1306
00:44:01,300 –> 00:44:02,300
[Paul Tyler]: about

1307
00:44:01,384 –> 00:44:05,064
[Tamiko Toland]: advocate of of income solutions right

1308
00:44:05,280 –> 00:44:08,640
[Paul Tyler]: right i think the i know i have heard about

1309
00:44:05,784 –> 00:44:08,104
[Tamiko Toland]: i think now is a really good time to learn

1310
00:44:08,118 –> 00:44:09,118
[Ramsey Smith]: learn about

1311
00:44:08,344 –> 00:44:09,944
[Tamiko Toland]: about them and w how does

1312
00:44:09,678 –> 00:44:10,678
[Ramsey Smith]: not good

1313
00:44:09,964 –> 00:44:10,964
[Tamiko Toland]: this really apply

1314
00:44:11,564 –> 00:44:12,564
[Tamiko Toland]: to

1315
00:44:12,924 –> 00:44:13,924
[Tamiko Toland]: to the

1316
00:44:13,864 –> 00:44:17,624
[Tamiko Toland]: workplace savings right and it is different and there are different ways of

1317
00:44:14,080 –> 00:44:16,000
[Paul Tyler]: what we i didn’t eat

1318
00:44:17,704 –> 00:44:20,904
[Tamiko Toland]: thinking about it there are different ways of breaking down the client cause the

1319
00:44:21,144 –> 00:44:22,904
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is this like

1320
00:44:22,580 –> 00:44:23,580
[Paul Tyler]: like

1321
00:44:23,224 –> 00:44:26,104
[Tamiko Toland]: or the end user is the sponsor right but it’s

1322
00:44:25,860 –> 00:44:26,860
[Paul Tyler]: what

1323
00:44:26,104 –> 00:44:29,464
[Tamiko Toland]: funny because there’s a parallel between retail and how we think about you who’s

1324
00:44:29,464 –> 00:44:31,064
[Tamiko Toland]: the client is is the client

1325
00:44:30,678 –> 00:44:31,678
[Ramsey Smith]: like

1326
00:44:31,144 –> 00:44:32,184
[Tamiko Toland]: the persons ends

1327
00:44:31,798 –> 00:44:32,798
[Ramsey Smith]: eight

1328
00:44:32,184 –> 00:44:33,624
[Tamiko Toland]: up with the annuity or is the

1329
00:44:33,478 –> 00:44:34,478
[Ramsey Smith]: the plane

1330
00:44:33,624 –> 00:44:36,984
[Tamiko Toland]: client actually the financial intermediary who

1331
00:44:36,980 –> 00:44:37,980
[Paul Tyler]: that’s

1332
00:44:37,144 –> 00:44:38,824
[Tamiko Toland]: ends up making that recommendation and

1333
00:44:38,420 –> 00:44:39,420
[Paul Tyler]: and

1334
00:44:38,984 –> 00:44:40,424
[Tamiko Toland]: we know that the industry has always

1335
00:44:40,380 –> 00:44:41,380
[Paul Tyler]: he out

1336
00:44:40,504 –> 00:44:42,904
[Tamiko Toland]: seen it as that financial intermediary right

1337
00:44:43,140 –> 00:44:44,140
[Paul Tyler]: and

1338
00:44:43,544 –> 00:44:45,464
[Tamiko Toland]: and the same kind of goes here but

1339
00:44:45,340 –> 00:44:46,340
[Paul Tyler]: you all

1340
00:44:45,544 –> 00:44:47,064
[Tamiko Toland]: they’re also they’re providing advice

1341
00:44:46,780 –> 00:44:47,780
[Paul Tyler]: you like

1342
00:44:47,144 –> 00:44:49,064
[Tamiko Toland]: and they you know they may be providing other other

1343
00:44:48,820 –> 00:44:49,820
[Paul Tyler]: other

1344
00:44:49,624 –> 00:44:51,144
[Tamiko Toland]: fiduciary services as well

1345
00:44:51,100 –> 00:44:52,100
[Paul Tyler]: well we

1346
00:44:51,784 –> 00:44:53,864
[Tamiko Toland]: where it’s very relevant for them to need to be

1347
00:44:53,940 –> 00:44:54,940
[Paul Tyler]: i

1348
00:44:54,264 –> 00:44:56,264
[Tamiko Toland]: educated to a higher degree you’re

1349
00:44:56,318 –> 00:44:57,318
[Ramsey Smith]: you’re certainly not

1350
00:44:56,344 –> 00:44:57,624
[Tamiko Toland]: certainly not gonna be like

1351
00:44:58,684 –> 00:44:59,684
[Tamiko Toland]: seeing people

1352
00:44:59,444 –> 00:45:00,444
[Tamiko Toland]: change seats in

1353
00:44:59,458 –> 00:45:00,738
[Ramsey Smith]: c g c c

1354
00:45:00,020 –> 00:45:01,020
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1355
00:45:00,424 –> 00:45:01,864
[Tamiko Toland]: h r departments or

1356
00:45:01,958 –> 00:45:02,958
[Ramsey Smith]: k

1357
00:45:02,024 –> 00:45:04,264
[Tamiko Toland]: cfos change because of income okay

1358
00:45:04,924 –> 00:45:05,924
[Tamiko Toland]: so we

1359
00:45:05,638 –> 00:45:06,638
[Ramsey Smith]: yep

1360
00:45:06,024 –> 00:45:07,464
[Tamiko Toland]: got to work with what we got here

1361
00:45:07,380 –> 00:45:08,380
[Paul Tyler]: huh

1362
00:45:07,478 –> 00:45:08,478
[Ramsey Smith]: right

1363
00:45:07,484 –> 00:45:08,484
[Tamiko Toland]: ramsey

1364
00:45:11,140 –> 00:45:12,140
[Paul Tyler]: no this

1365
00:45:13,200 –> 00:45:14,320
[Paul Tyler]: this is this is terrific

1366
00:45:16,000 –> 00:45:21,120
[Paul Tyler]: uh i guess for the listeners who are hungry to learn more

1367
00:45:21,238 –> 00:45:22,238
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1368
00:45:22,000 –> 00:45:26,320
[Paul Tyler]: or i want to follow you what’s what’s the best way is it is it linkedin is it

1369
00:45:27,760 –> 00:45:28,800
[Paul Tyler]: your corporate website

1370
00:45:30,900 –> 00:45:31,900
[Paul Tyler]: think he

1371
00:45:30,904 –> 00:45:33,224
[Tamiko Toland]: linkedin is great i mean you know can x is

1372
00:45:32,980 –> 00:45:33,980
[Paul Tyler]: exact

1373
00:45:33,164 –> 00:45:34,164
[Tamiko Toland]: active on linkedin

1374
00:45:33,998 –> 00:45:34,998
[Ramsey Smith]: and i

1375
00:45:34,184 –> 00:45:35,384
[Tamiko Toland]: i’m active on linkedin

1376
00:45:35,644 –> 00:45:36,644
[Tamiko Toland]: we

1377
00:45:35,700 –> 00:45:36,700
[Paul Tyler]: oh

1378
00:45:36,258 –> 00:45:37,858
[Ramsey Smith]: i there all on twitter

1379
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research

1380
00:45:36,264 –> 00:45:40,504
[Tamiko Toland]: are also on twitter um there’s if you’re interested in any of the research

1381
00:45:39,280 –> 00:45:42,000
[Paul Tyler]: hear any of the uh oh

1382
00:45:41,564 –> 00:45:42,564
[Tamiko Toland]: and

1383
00:45:42,264 –> 00:45:44,504
[Tamiko Toland]: articles commentary and what have you also

1384
00:45:42,398 –> 00:45:43,398
[Ramsey Smith]: article

1385
00:45:44,284 –> 00:45:45,284
[Tamiko Toland]: our

1386
00:45:44,658 –> 00:45:46,338
[Ramsey Smith]: also our web film

1387
00:45:44,660 –> 00:45:45,660
[Paul Tyler]: really

1388
00:45:44,904 –> 00:45:49,464
[Tamiko Toland]: website has a wealth of information under thought leadership as well as if videos

1389
00:45:49,544 –> 00:45:50,744
[Tamiko Toland]: and all all kinds of stuff

1390
00:45:50,598 –> 00:45:51,598
[Ramsey Smith]: stuff

1391
00:45:50,960 –> 00:45:52,240
[Paul Tyler]: stuff and they

1392
00:45:51,464 –> 00:45:53,784
[Tamiko Toland]: um and there’s there you know there is

1393
00:45:53,540 –> 00:45:54,540
[Paul Tyler]: there’s

1394
00:45:53,558 –> 00:45:54,558
[Ramsey Smith]: here

1395
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just

1396
00:45:53,944 –> 00:45:56,824
[Tamiko Toland]: some stuff on lifetime income there as well so just

1397
00:45:56,320 –> 00:46:00,560
[Paul Tyler]: excellent alright let listen thanks so much there there’s a there’s a lot

1398
00:45:57,458 –> 00:46:00,658
[Ramsey Smith]: i’m sure there’s a lot of stuff on lifetime income there not some

1399
00:46:01,284 –> 00:46:02,284
[Tamiko Toland]: what guess

1400
00:46:02,780 –> 00:46:03,780
[Paul Tyler]: there’s a lot and

1401
00:46:03,484 –> 00:46:04,484
[Tamiko Toland]: a wea bit

1402
00:46:03,680 –> 00:46:05,200
[Paul Tyler]: we will put those links we will put

1403
00:46:04,838 –> 00:46:05,838
[Ramsey Smith]: yeah

1404
00:46:05,280 –> 00:46:07,360
[Paul Tyler]: those links in the show notes if you want to click in and

1405
00:46:08,020 –> 00:46:09,020
[Paul Tyler]: connect

1406
00:46:09,920 –> 00:46:15,440
[Paul Tyler]: or visit the website so taco thanks so much ramsey as usual appreciate all the

1407
00:46:15,060 –> 00:46:16,060
[Paul Tyler]: great

1408
00:46:16,640 –> 00:46:21,200
[Paul Tyler]: questions and thought behind this uh this show um please join us again next week

1409
00:46:21,680 –> 00:46:25,520
[Paul Tyler]: and uh for another very interesting episode of that annuity show

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Ashley SaundersEpisode 141: Diving Deeper Into The Qualified Default Investment Alternative Market With Tamiko Toland
read more