2022

Jamie Hopkins: Why Debt Is ‘Powerful,’ Annuities Are ‘Underutilized’

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Jane Wollman Rusoff
November 14, 2022

Here’s a crisp and clear message to financial advisors from Jamie Hopkins, managing partner of wealth solutions at Carson Group:

“If you don’t really care about what you’re doing, you’re in the wrong business,” he tells ThinkAdvisor in an interview. “Define your ‘Why.’ Your ‘Why’ should make you cry.”

In his newest book, “Find Your Freedom: Financial Planning for a Life on Purpose” (Harriman House – Nov. 22, 2022), co-written with Ron Carson, founder and CEO of Carson Group, readers have the freedom, of course, to hop among the 26 chapters. But chances are they’ll want to take in this comprehensive, conversational tome from cover to cover.

It provides a trove of financial planning insights as well as the likely repercussions of failing to have a good financial plan.

In the interview, however, Hopkins maintains that there’s typically little need for an all-inclusive plan if, for example, you’re only in your 20s. Estate planning can come later.

Finance professor of practice at Creighton University’s Heider College of Business, Hopkins co-created the Retirement Income Certified Professional designation and developed additional educational materials for the American College of Financial Services’ Certified Financial Planner and Chartered Financial Consultant programs, among others.

In 2017, seven years after Hopkins earned a Juris Doctor degree from Villanova School of Law, The American Bar Association named him one of the top 40 young lawyers in the U.S.

In our conversation, he explores a number of financial planning concepts, including the use of debt as a powerful tool. He also talks about why he thinks annuities are “oversold and underutilized” and why the 4% rule isn’t a rule but “a withdrawal finding.”

ThinkAdvisor recently held a phone interview with Hopkins, who was candid in a brief assessment of financial advisors.

He would hire only “5% of the financial advisors out there,” he declares, and then offers reasons.

Here are highlights of our interview:

THINKADVIVSOR: How do you define “financial freedom”?

JAMIE HOPKINS: People need to define that for themselves. You have to start with understanding your relationship with money, where you want to go with it and who you want to be. Then work backwards toward what financial freedom means to you.

How can advisors take their own personal financial freedom to the next level?

Define your “Why.” I always say, “Your ‘Why’ should make you cry.” If you don’t really care about what you’re doing, you’re in the wrong business — whatever you’re doing in life.

I think most advisors should put their “Why” on their website. Do a video about your “Why.”

Figure out what you actually want to do as an advisor. Make sure you’re only focusing on doing the things that you want to do, whether that means partnering, finding the right tech tools or leaving the firm you’re with and going out on your own or joining someone else’s firm.

You don’t have to feel like you’re stuck in life by default.

What is the Carson “Find Your Freedom Planning Promise”?

It’s following a proven financial planning process that will get you to where you want to go.

Advisors need to help people understand the basics first — saving, income [and so on] — and then get more strategic about the decisions they ultimately have to make, like layering in legacy and more complex planning topics.

What keeps people from wanting to do a financial plan?

Everybody has parts of a financial plan. You might not put it all together [now] — and that’s OK. Not everything has to be wrapped up [at once].

You can be in a part of life where only pieces of a plan are in place because that’s what you need at that [particular] phase.

If you’re 26 years old, for instance, you don’t need to know what your legacy, estate planning and charitable [strategies] are yet.

But you have to align your planning with your objectives and goals. No one plan fits everybody.

To what extent are millennials and Gen Zs involved in financial planning?

It all depends on what phase of life you’re in and where you are at that stage, not how old you are.

The oldest millennials are in their 40s. They might even be thinking about retirement strategies. Some millennials in their 20s are millionaires.

However, most younger people are thinking about housing, managing debt and understanding their relationship with money.

[The last point] is a core part of what [advisors] used to skip over: The behavioral aspect of understanding your relationship with money is incredibly recent. It’s only been two years since that’s been added into CFP education.

And one thing we have to get a better understanding of is whether you’re a debt-averse person or a more risk-tolerant person.

How can “debt be a powerful planning tool that helps us open up possibilities in life that you wouldn’t have expected without it,” as you write?

Take a lesson from the best companies in the world: They almost all leverage debt to grow. Debt is a very powerful growth vehicle.

So you should always look at what [rates] you can borrow at and what you can leverage elsewhere. That should be an annual decision.

For Americans, the two biggest debt decisions are college education and buying a house. Also, you might have debt that comes in on your business side.

Any time you’re borrowing, you’re also making a decision as to how much to borrow vs. how much to invest.

Even if you’ve paid off your mortgage and you’re 62, you’re making an annual decision as to whether, for example, you should pay all taxes [with cash], refinance your mortgage or do a reverse mortgage.

Insurance is very important to a financial plan, you write: “Being without insurance is like having a steering wheel but no car.” But why do you need insurance if you’re investing in the market?

Insurance is often a risk-mitigation or transfer technique. Tax-free death benefits from life insurance can be a more efficient way to transfer wealth.

There are certain things that market returns can’t solve. For instance, no return can [provide] lifetime income.

Read more: https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2022/11/14/jamie-hopkins-how-to-help-clients-find-financial-freedom/

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherJamie Hopkins: Why Debt Is ‘Powerful,’ Annuities Are ‘Underutilized’
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Episode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco

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What will the future of face-to-face distribution look like in the coming years? Today, we talk with Paul Blanco, Founder and CEO of Barnum Financial, about the future of advisors, insurance agencies, wealth management and technology.

Barnum is a general agency of MassMutual (Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company) and qualified representatives offer securities and investment advisory services through MML Investors Services, LLC, a subsidiary of MassMutual.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://barnumfinancialgroup.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulblanco/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[paul_tyler]: i this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show we’ve

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[paul_tyler]: got a really interesting guest on this
show i’ll tell you in a minute ramsey

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[paul_tyler]: how are you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: great always glad to be here

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[paul_tyler]: okay a lot of news coming out
on in plan annuities are you feeling really

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[paul_tyler]: bullish about that space right now

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hundred percent

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[paul_tyler]: unde per cent

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: bruno from canada you didn’t have an
election last night did you

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[bruno_caron]: it’s as if

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[ramsey_d_smith]: we’re

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in georgia

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[bruno_caron]: but

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[ramsey_d_smith]: were still

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[bruno_caron]: it’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: electing here in georgia

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: that’s right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: this is going to

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[paul_tyler]: it’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: be a run

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[paul_tyler]: not

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[ramsey_d_smith]: off

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[paul_tyler]: over

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[ramsey_d_smith]: probably

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[paul_tyler]: with

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah so

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: so i think everybody probably needs a
little bit break from politics at this point

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: as i think we all deserve and
so anyway with us today is an old

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[paul_tyler]: friend from you know way back when
another couple of companies ago um a guy

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[paul_tyler]: who almost needs no introduction if you’re
in this space but paul blanco who is

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[paul_tyler]: the c o and founder of barn
financial paul welcome

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[paul_tyler]: ah well thank you paul you know
who know you know walking down a street

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[paul_tyler]: and at a street cafe would pull
us back together so this is great so

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: for those who don’t know you know
aren’t like in the north east who tell

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[paul_tyler]: us about barnum financial what is it
you know size product focus you know etcetera

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

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[paul_tyler]: let’s see i knew you win and
even then your footprint was pretty enormous but

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[paul_tyler]: like where did this start so paul
you just got this big office and right

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[paul_tyler]: that’s that’s the back story

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so to talk a little bit about
that that evolution in the business you started

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[ramsey_d_smith]: out very insurance focused and really you
know there’s a there’s a lot of power

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in integrating the discussion with a client
you know the insurance discussion with a client

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[ramsey_d_smith]: with sort of a wholistic discussion around
planning and andndvcv sort of investment opportunities how

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[ramsey_d_smith]: did you how did you sort of
execute that because part of that is finding

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the right people part of that’s finding
the right platforms did you build did you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: buy tell us about that that entreprenerial
journey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: that’s really interesting and that’s kind of
where my my follow up is how do

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[bruno_caron]: you marry the two how do you
marry the insurance and the investment and it’s

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[bruno_caron]: not just the products it’s also the
mentalities and everything that that comes that comes

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[bruno_caron]: with it i think everyone agrees that
it’s not one or the other you have

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[bruno_caron]: to have you have to have both
m how do you how do you convey

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[bruno_caron]: that message too your clients to the
audience to general public as to how the

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[bruno_caron]: two are interconnected and how to know
ultimately use both in terms of in terms

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[bruno_caron]: of planning

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah and maybe you know i give
you a question to go a little bit

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[paul_tyler]: more to the infrastructure you know we’re
living in a world of extremes and if

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[paul_tyler]: i ask you know people at some
of these conferences what’s the future tribution depend

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[paul_tyler]: on the conference one is okay it’s
all going to be roll ups acquisitions you

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[paul_tyler]: know i gonna we’re gonna create mega
agencies by buying these things up the other

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[paul_tyler]: hand will be now paul it’s all
digital you’re gonna be selling stuff on the

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[paul_tyler]: web we’re still going to figure the
stuff out talk to us about your view

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[paul_tyler]: you know where’s growth coming from here
and how does it work

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so then these are like internal internal
whole sailors for you sort of specific product

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[ramsey_d_smith]: specialists

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah so who do you see
is like your competitors are peers because as

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you as you talk about your business
i can see on one hand it could

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[ramsey_d_smith]: be it could be wirehouses because you’re
trying to bring that complete set of services

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in the way that they do it
could be it could be other as it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: could be lots of different things like
where do you you typically run into people

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i guess in terms of you know
you are competitively

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so you have

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in there just just so there’s henry’s
what hirnderis not not rich

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yet

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and then there’s and then there’s the
mass affluent and there’s high net worth you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: can cover all three of those categories
m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah you know over the last couple
of episodes we had some really discussion good

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[paul_tyler]: discussions about in plan annuities you know
where where this will had secure act to

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[paul_tyler]: open

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: up some opportunities paul you’ve been in
this space in the work space for a

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[paul_tyler]: long time you mentioned you know the
change in you know being

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: able to communicate with people virtually what’s
happening in in your mind with you know

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[paul_tyler]: changing how people are working with the
opportunities or the changes in working with companies

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[paul_tyler]: to bring financial planning through their employ
or

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yeah do you do any work
helping with setting up plans like setting up

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[ramsey_d_smith]: for one c plans

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: so while we’re on that that topic
of inplananuities um obviously we talked about the

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[bruno_caron]: comprehensive nature of you know your firm
your business and your your

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: background

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: assets on their management that’s a fairly
fairly easy concept for all of us to

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[bruno_caron]: understand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: but how how do you generate income
how do you see income being generated through

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[bruno_caron]: um you know through retirement how do
you view it obviously in this in this

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[bruno_caron]: particular environment where things have become a
little a little harder so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: how do you how do you advise
your clients to to you know decumulate and

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[bruno_caron]: generate income through through retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah yah we

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:24:07,948 –> 00:24:08,109
[paul_tyler]: yeah

166
00:24:08,010 –> 00:24:08,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:24:08,189 –> 00:24:12,336
[paul_tyler]: well you mentioned scale paul and i
think this is kind of an advantage of

168
00:24:12,436 –> 00:24:17,083
[paul_tyler]: scale because you know i ally have
five clients it’s going to be those are

169
00:24:17,524 –> 00:24:22,497
[paul_tyler]: to be some pretty empty tiles um
now i remember again back to you know

170
00:24:22,858 –> 00:24:27,480
[paul_tyler]: two thousand this is ramsey bruno i
won’t name names you can imagine

171
00:24:27,210 –> 00:24:27,334
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:24:27,580 –> 00:24:27,961
[paul_tyler]: paul this

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00:24:27,900 –> 00:24:29,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

174
00:24:28,001 –> 00:24:33,510
[paul_tyler]: was god can you believe some some
agency manager wants to do his own thing

175
00:24:33,590 –> 00:24:39,660
[paul_tyler]: he’s got this software c m outside
company he wants to put in here and

176
00:24:39,720 –> 00:24:46,812
[paul_tyler]: not do what we want what’s it
called sales force you know so you’ve been

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00:24:47,253 –> 00:24:51,600
[paul_tyler]: you’ve been in sure tech before insure
tech is ed what kind of scale do

178
00:24:51,660 –> 00:24:57,770
[paul_tyler]: you have to have in order to
make those algorithm you know feed enough you

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00:24:57,831 –> 00:25:01,437
[paul_tyler]: know agents so that your calls to
make

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00:25:15,720 –> 00:25:15,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:25:47,877 –> 00:25:48,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:25:53,880 –> 00:25:54,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:25:57,180 –> 00:25:57,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

184
00:26:14,019 –> 00:26:15,852
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

185
00:26:43,560 –> 00:26:47,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh

186
00:27:05,910 –> 00:27:06,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

187
00:27:13,023 –> 00:27:13,125
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

188
00:27:32,289 –> 00:27:32,310
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

189
00:27:48,542 –> 00:27:54,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah right so so i’ve got sort
of one one parting question because we’re pretty

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00:27:54,357 –> 00:27:58,064
[ramsey_d_smith]: much at the unfortunately i would love
to have you back because it’s actually more

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00:27:58,124 –> 00:28:02,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: to talk about here but you know
so you have you’ve got in a fantastic

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00:28:02,591 –> 00:28:07,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of growth growth goals you know
he said between now and twenty thirty m

193
00:28:08,681 –> 00:28:16,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul tyler had mentioned earlier of the
consolidation agregation we’re seeing in the business i

194
00:28:16,195 –> 00:28:17,698
[ramsey_d_smith]: think you’re still independent at this point

195
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:23,961
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

196
00:28:39,751 –> 00:28:45,680
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i just it’s i can see
a world where you’re an acquirer or you

197
00:28:45,721 –> 00:28:49,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: can be either way sounds like with
the business you built you have a lot

198
00:28:49,347 –> 00:28:53,912
[ramsey_d_smith]: of option so um it’s probably a
bit of an impertinent question so i apologize

199
00:28:54,012 –> 00:28:59,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know but very interested to
see you know how this progresses for you

200
00:28:59,698 –> 00:29:00,239
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the coming years

201
00:29:07,440 –> 00:29:08,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m m

202
00:29:19,479 –> 00:29:19,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

203
00:29:28,752 –> 00:29:28,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:29:37,448 –> 00:29:39,015
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:00,174 –> 00:30:00,454
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:30:06,763 –> 00:30:06,903
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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00:30:10,089 –> 00:30:10,798
[paul_tyler]: oh this is great

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00:30:10,814 –> 00:30:11,795
[bruno_caron]: paul tyler there’s a

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00:30:11,819 –> 00:30:11,960
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:11,835 –> 00:30:15,438
[bruno_caron]: new podcast if i saw it correctly
coming up on

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00:30:15,758 –> 00:30:16,568
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:30:15,899 –> 00:30:17,320
[bruno_caron]: that exact topic if

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00:30:17,279 –> 00:30:17,420
[paul_tyler]: that’s

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00:30:17,480 –> 00:30:17,500
[bruno_caron]: i

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00:30:17,520 –> 00:30:17,741
[paul_tyler]: right

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00:30:18,862 –> 00:30:19,502
[bruno_caron]: if i saw it right

217
00:30:20,849 –> 00:30:25,638
[paul_tyler]: the prime life you know i’ll send
you a link it’s were our first for

218
00:30:25,858 –> 00:30:31,951
[paul_tyler]: palante doing a little more on the
consumer side um you know now trying to

219
00:30:31,991 –> 00:30:35,204
[paul_tyler]: reach the sixty plus group so i’ll
send you link

220
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: yeah listen to hey it’s that’s you
know you never stopped learning write or experimenting

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[paul_tyler]: you know paul so

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00:31:09,969 –> 00:31:11,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

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00:31:18,750 –> 00:31:18,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:31:38,118 –> 00:31:41,484
[paul_tyler]: hey paul listen thank you so much
for your time you’re doing great stuff in

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00:31:41,524 –> 00:31:45,390
[paul_tyler]: the business and as ramsey said love
to have you back let’s

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00:31:45,804 –> 00:31:46,064
[bruno_caron]: yah

228
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[paul_tyler]: we’ll reach out and a lot more
to talk about bruno ramsey thanks so much

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00:31:51,680 –> 00:31:52,621
[paul_tyler]: and paul what’s

230
00:31:52,603 –> 00:31:52,743
[bruno_caron]: yah

231
00:31:52,661 –> 00:31:56,566
[paul_tyler]: the best way for people to either
learn more about barnum or get in touch

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00:31:56,606 –> 00:32:00,518
[paul_tyler]: with you oh

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00:32:06,438 –> 00:32:07,982
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen thanks

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00:32:07,944 –> 00:32:09,474
[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: everybody thanks for our listeners hey thanks
paul

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:32:15,188 –> 00:32:15,568
[paul_tyler]: hey thanks

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00:32:15,560 –> 00:32:16,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: much appreciated

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00:32:15,969 –> 00:32:16,870
[paul_tyler]: listen we really

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00:32:16,714 –> 00:32:16,895
[bruno_caron]: thank

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00:32:16,890 –> 00:32:16,970
[paul_tyler]: do

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00:32:16,935 –> 00:32:17,076
[bruno_caron]: you

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00:32:17,010 –> 00:32:23,076
[paul_tyler]: appreciate it thanks and listen join us
again next week for another episode of that

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00:32:23,156 –> 00:32:24,277
[paul_tyler]: annuity show thanks

 

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 170: The Future of Advice With Paul Blanco
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Episode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke

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For those of us in the business, it feels like interest rates have been rising every two weeks. Fixed rates and guaranteed income have gone up. However, other competing fixed income options have risen as well. How does this new environment reshape how we evaluate recommendations for our clients? We explore this topic and more with Michael Finke, Professor at The American College and David Blanchett, Head of Retirement Research at PGIM.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:02,113 –> 00:00:06,062
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show get a

2
00:00:06,102 –> 00:00:10,051
[paul_tyler]: great great program some great guests bruno
welcome from canada

3
00:00:11,667 –> 00:00:13,210
[bruno_caron]: thank you good to be here

4
00:00:13,440 –> 00:00:13,842
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s your new

5
00:00:13,835 –> 00:00:13,938
[paul_tyler]: don

6
00:00:13,942 –> 00:00:14,184
[ramsey_d_smith]: office

7
00:00:13,999 –> 00:00:14,121
[paul_tyler]: hat

8
00:00:14,244 –> 00:00:14,485
[ramsey_d_smith]: bruno

9
00:00:15,354 –> 00:00:15,594
[bruno_caron]: it is

10
00:00:15,951 –> 00:00:16,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: nice

11
00:00:16,943 –> 00:00:17,206
[paul_tyler]: nice

12
00:00:17,116 –> 00:00:21,020
[bruno_caron]: people typically congratulate me on my plan
but you can do that it’s okay

13
00:00:20,953 –> 00:00:21,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: alright

14
00:00:23,214 –> 00:00:25,523
[paul_tyler]: all right ramsey tell us who do

15
00:00:25,461 –> 00:00:25,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: p

16
00:00:25,563 –> 00:00:27,550
[paul_tyler]: we have and what are we going
to talk about today

17
00:00:28,040 –> 00:00:32,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right paul thank you always glad
to be here so we are we’re very

18
00:00:32,206 –> 00:00:38,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: fortunate to be rejoined by two of
the most important voices in the retirement space

19
00:00:38,237 –> 00:00:39,719
[ramsey_d_smith]: david blanch shet and michael

20
00:00:39,403 –> 00:00:39,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

21
00:00:39,799 –> 00:00:42,203
[ramsey_d_smith]: fink so both of both of them
have we’ve been fortunate

22
00:00:42,103 –> 00:00:42,387
[paul_tyler]: oh

23
00:00:42,243 –> 00:00:44,607
[ramsey_d_smith]: to have them on the each of
them on the show at least once or

24
00:00:44,667 –> 00:00:50,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: twice and they can be seen very
frequently on linked in

25
00:00:50,173 –> 00:00:50,833
[paul_tyler]: yeah

26
00:00:50,337 –> 00:00:53,642
[ramsey_d_smith]: and in many other venues and in
webinars and and

27
00:00:53,803 –> 00:00:54,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

28
00:00:54,624 –> 00:00:55,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll hear at the end what

29
00:00:55,513 –> 00:00:55,754
[paul_tyler]: yeah

30
00:00:55,605 –> 00:00:57,929
[ramsey_d_smith]: the sort of heir next appearances will
be

31
00:00:58,003 –> 00:00:58,753
[paul_tyler]: yeah

32
00:00:59,191 –> 00:01:03,178
[ramsey_d_smith]: we we wanted to ring the back
on the show primarily because they’ve been posting

33
00:01:03,679 –> 00:01:09,509
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot lately about the different trends
in the space and so with that want

34
00:01:09,549 –> 00:01:14,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: to welcome david who is the head
of retirement research at p g i m

35
00:01:15,250 –> 00:01:20,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: and michael who is professor of wealth
and man both management rather at the american

36
00:01:20,939 –> 00:01:26,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: college of financial services so welcome back
to both you and let’s let’s just get

37
00:01:26,248 –> 00:01:28,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: into it you’ve posted on so many
things

38
00:01:29,314 –> 00:01:29,534
[bruno_caron]: yes

39
00:01:30,132 –> 00:01:33,836
[ramsey_d_smith]: what are the what are the two
or three areas that you think or getting

40
00:01:33,876 –> 00:01:33,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

41
00:01:33,937 –> 00:01:34,020
[bruno_caron]: ah

42
00:01:34,016 –> 00:01:37,519
[ramsey_d_smith]: most intense or should get the most
intense scrutiny right now in the retirement space

43
00:01:39,260 –> 00:01:40,011
[ramsey_d_smith]: david will start with you

44
00:01:40,732 –> 00:01:41,274
[david_blanchett]: but i was going to

45
00:01:41,305 –> 00:01:41,406
[michael_finke]: i’m

46
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[david_blanchett]: say you

47
00:01:41,446 –> 00:01:41,547
[michael_finke]: going

48
00:01:41,515 –> 00:01:41,595
[david_blanchett]: know

49
00:01:41,587 –> 00:01:41,627
[michael_finke]: to

50
00:01:41,635 –> 00:01:41,695
[david_blanchett]: the

51
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[michael_finke]: go

52
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[david_blanchett]: one thing

53
00:01:41,849 –> 00:01:41,909
[michael_finke]: and

54
00:01:41,936 –> 00:01:42,980
[david_blanchett]: that i’ve been

55
00:01:43,849 –> 00:01:45,019
[michael_finke]: ah

56
00:01:45,750 –> 00:01:46,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right

57
00:01:46,383 –> 00:01:48,373
[david_blanchett]: i gotta go first call on me
thank our plan

58
00:01:48,270 –> 00:01:48,512
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

59
00:01:48,278 –> 00:01:50,765
[michael_finke]: you’re just a knocking over each other
and the

60
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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

61
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[bruno_caron]: right

62
00:01:52,602 –> 00:01:52,702
[ramsey_d_smith]: all

63
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[michael_finke]: go ahead

64
00:01:52,802 –> 00:01:53,464
[ramsey_d_smith]: right sorry

65
00:01:53,192 –> 00:01:55,025
[michael_finke]: go ahead david i’m the more voracious
one

66
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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: so

68
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[paul_tyler]: ye

69
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[david_blanchett]: the one thing that i would just
say

70
00:01:56,520 –> 00:01:56,862
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: is that we’re taking about

72
00:01:57,553 –> 00:01:57,574
[bruno_caron]: m

73
00:01:57,595 –> 00:02:01,402
[david_blanchett]: this before we started is just the
impact that the rise and bonyiels are having

74
00:02:01,582 –> 00:02:01,702
[david_blanchett]: on

75
00:02:01,666 –> 00:02:01,811
[paul_tyler]: yeah

76
00:02:02,163 –> 00:02:05,929
[david_blanchett]: products across the net landscape just because
you know if you think about the way

77
00:02:06,009 –> 00:02:08,313
[david_blanchett]: that a lot of these products are
built it’s built using

78
00:02:08,563 –> 00:02:09,643
[paul_tyler]: oh

79
00:02:08,634 –> 00:02:14,063
[david_blanchett]: bonils’there’s more there but so when we’ve
seen this dramatic rise and rates there’s just

80
00:02:14,203 –> 00:02:14,584
[paul_tyler]: yeah

81
00:02:14,363 –> 00:02:17,809
[david_blanchett]: dramatic improvement and change and kind of
the efficacy of products and so

82
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

83
00:02:18,290 –> 00:02:19,973
[david_blanchett]: i did a lot of research about
like

84
00:02:20,293 –> 00:02:20,579
[paul_tyler]: oh

85
00:02:20,553 –> 00:02:23,478
[david_blanchett]: riles and fees and just a whole
host of products last year it’s kind of

86
00:02:23,518 –> 00:02:26,523
[david_blanchett]: irrelevant now like i need a kind
of dust off everything i used to do

87
00:02:26,684 –> 00:02:30,710
[david_blanchett]: because like the marginal value of a
lot of these a lot of these products

88
00:02:30,931 –> 00:02:32,052
[david_blanchett]: issued by life insures

89
00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:32,421
[paul_tyler]: yeah

90
00:02:32,173 –> 00:02:33,835
[david_blanchett]: really have i think a lot

91
00:02:33,779 –> 00:02:33,799
[paul_tyler]: i

92
00:02:34,015 –> 00:02:35,417
[david_blanchett]: better a lot

93
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[paul_tyler]: yeah

94
00:02:35,518 –> 00:02:36,619
[david_blanchett]: sexyerethan he

95
00:02:36,634 –> 00:02:36,654
[paul_tyler]: i

96
00:02:36,679 –> 00:02:37,040
[david_blanchett]: were say

97
00:02:37,050 –> 00:02:37,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

98
00:02:37,220 –> 00:02:37,721
[david_blanchett]: even a year ago

99
00:02:38,563 –> 00:02:39,673
[paul_tyler]: yeah

100
00:02:39,860 –> 00:02:40,143
[ramsey_d_smith]: michael

101
00:02:40,239 –> 00:02:44,627
[michael_finke]: david let’s talk about fixed inexinuities because
this is something that i’ve

102
00:02:44,542 –> 00:02:44,785
[david_blanchett]: yeah

103
00:02:44,647 –> 00:02:46,350
[michael_finke]: been giving some thought to recently

104
00:02:46,363 –> 00:02:46,631
[paul_tyler]: oh

105
00:02:46,430 –> 00:02:50,997
[michael_finke]: and that is that you and i
have boated on research on fa basically the

106
00:02:51,077 –> 00:02:53,606
[michael_finke]: long term for or man resembles

107
00:02:53,263 –> 00:02:54,883
[paul_tyler]: yeah

108
00:02:53,707 –> 00:02:55,615
[michael_finke]: that of a corporate

109
00:02:55,620 –> 00:02:56,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

110
00:02:55,655 –> 00:02:55,956
[michael_finke]: bond

111
00:02:56,173 –> 00:02:57,013
[paul_tyler]: yeah

112
00:02:56,749 –> 00:03:00,479
[michael_finke]: over time it is we both have
discussed the fact that he is are in

113
00:03:00,539 –> 00:03:06,983
[michael_finke]: some sense like a bond substitute within
a portfolio this year really illustrated a unique

114
00:03:07,183 –> 00:03:09,988
[michael_finke]: aspect of f but i don’t think
people really

115
00:03:10,003 –> 00:03:10,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

116
00:03:10,148 –> 00:03:14,576
[michael_finke]: have given enough thought to and that
is that although they

117
00:03:14,670 –> 00:03:15,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

118
00:03:14,716 –> 00:03:20,484
[michael_finke]: capture much of that term premium and
a little bit of the credit premium over

119
00:03:20,644 –> 00:03:26,823
[michael_finke]: time that you would get from corporate
bonds they don’t suffer the same losses the

120
00:03:26,904 –> 00:03:31,251
[michael_finke]: corporate bond suffer so let’s just take
a moment and reflect on how well for

121
00:03:31,311 –> 00:03:31,732
[michael_finke]: example

122
00:03:31,350 –> 00:03:32,220
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

123
00:03:32,252 –> 00:03:33,735
[michael_finke]: the long term corporate

124
00:03:33,793 –> 00:03:33,994
[paul_tyler]: yeah

125
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[michael_finke]: bond van guard f has

126
00:03:36,562 –> 00:03:36,682
[paul_tyler]: yeah

127
00:03:36,720 –> 00:03:38,523
[michael_finke]: done in two thousand twenty two if

128
00:03:38,533 –> 00:03:39,823
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the year
you decided hey interestrats are really low i’m

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[michael_finke]: going to try to eke out a
little bit of extra return for my bond

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: portfolio by taking term risk maybe also
gonna take a little bit of credit risk

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[michael_finke]: down thirty per cent in fact that
t f is down down more than thirty

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[michael_finke]: per cent and two thousand twenty two

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: if you

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: had instead decided to use a tea
as a bond alternative the guarantee would have

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[michael_finke]: looked similar to the expected return on
those bond t f but

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: you have that principal protection aspect now
why is it that you get the principal

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[michael_finke]: protection aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michael_finke]: well the insurance company is investing in
those bonds and so the insurance

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michael_finke]: company in its general count has experienced
a mark to market loss in that

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[paul_tyler]: as

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[michael_finke]: bond portfolio

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: that you don’t have to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: bear in fact

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michael_finke]: the insurance company has taken some of
that volatility

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: of the bond portfolio off your plate
while still

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: offering in the long term similar performance
the bond portion of your portfolio that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: fact that the insurance company is willing
to bear that risk

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[paul_tyler]: a

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[michael_finke]: and not transfer it to you as
the holder of the fixed in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: extenuity that is a significant portfoli o
benefit and incorporating f

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: s versus using um you know using
them as a substitute for longer duration bonds

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[michael_finke]: than a portfolio

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[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s been i will tell you
this has been

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[michael_finke]: it

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: a wild ride and even if i
looked at you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: know what was the

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[bruno_caron]: ay

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[paul_tyler]: story the first or second

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

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[paul_tyler]: quarter versus third and fourth

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h

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[paul_tyler]: you know david michel has been so
different you know a lot of a lot

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[paul_tyler]: of products put in as you know
low volatility industries sort of do even the

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[paul_tyler]: best or the best hey we’re goin
t give you a steady return or better

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[paul_tyler]: then the market over a period of
time and not provide those bumps now of

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[paul_tyler]: course the markets were very be very
differently you know in the last eighteen eighteen

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[paul_tyler]: months going into sort of first or
second quarter because the most volatile stocks were

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[paul_tyler]: the ones that were producing biggest returns
they were taking out a lot of these

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[paul_tyler]: these ball control so i personally took
a lot calls and chats from from clients

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[paul_tyler]: who started to look at the statement
he said wait a second s m p

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[paul_tyler]: s gone up this much and this
much you’re only giving me this much and

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[paul_tyler]: we’re all sort of rubbing our hands
together saying what are we going to do

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[paul_tyler]: now the minute the market crashed michael
those calls stopped and in fact i know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[paul_tyler]: go on a bike ride and find
somebody i know from a long time ago

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[paul_tyler]: says paul i love my annuity

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: i love my annuity of the market
going down so it really has reenforced huge

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[paul_tyler]: you know part of the value prop
of a fixed and eccinuity i guess my

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[paul_tyler]: question will be is this temporary

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: or is this you know a more
permanent shift than how

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: people are looking at these products

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[paul_tyler]: david

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[ramsey_d_smith]: mean

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[paul_tyler]: what’s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what

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[paul_tyler]: your

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[ramsey_d_smith]: do you

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[paul_tyler]: what’s your yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

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[david_blanchett]: i think it depends upon where rates
headed you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: i have have no clue if you
told me

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[paul_tyler]: the

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[david_blanchett]: we’d have rats where they are right
now a year ago i would have laughed

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[david_blanchett]: in your

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: face like that’s that’s absurd i think
that the one thing that i think is

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[david_blanchett]: interesting right now is this is to
michael’s point is like people are

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: really negative about surrender penalties and

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: things like that well insures are as
long as the insure can hold those bonds

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[david_blanchett]: that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: they use to hedge he risk to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: maturity that’s okay right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: are like like you know enders we
they’rerally not like they allow individuals to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[david_blanchett]: have access to certain premiums

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: they couldn’t access

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[david_blanchett]: otherwise so know michael is talking about
fixing news what about

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[paul_tyler]: i

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[david_blanchett]: a mica i mean a mica is
just like a bond that you know maybe

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[david_blanchett]: s offering or four percent

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[david_blanchett]: it didn’t get marked to market so
i think that you know a lot of

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[david_blanchett]: the aspects people might not like love
about annuities historically are really maybe going to

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[david_blanchett]: change i hope we’re in a a
longer rate environment for ever becase it’s a

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[david_blanchett]: lot of a lot of really cool
products lot of interesting

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[michael_finke]: ye

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[david_blanchett]: innovation moving forward that we wouldn’t have
if we’re in a lower ate environment

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[bruno_caron]: hey while we’re on

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[michael_finke]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: that topic david can you discuss a
little bit about

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: the value of

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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[bruno_caron]: the lifetime income features on every single
one of those vehicles and the impact that

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[bruno_caron]: the market has had on

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[michael_finke]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: those particular on those particular writers and
benefits

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[david_blanchett]: so it’s complicated right so i think
that like certain certain annuities that provide live

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[david_blanchett]: time income more market responsive so like
sp is i’ve got a piece

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:08:00,066 –> 00:08:03,511
[david_blanchett]: of research in working rghtnowcanact you know
like looking at like how pay out rat

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00:08:03,652 –> 00:08:05,795
[david_blanchett]: fespesandds evolve over time like

262
00:08:05,683 –> 00:08:05,931
[paul_tyler]: yes

263
00:08:05,855 –> 00:08:06,697
[david_blanchett]: very market responsive

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00:08:06,313 –> 00:08:06,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: right you know other products maybe a
little bit less but like collectively it should

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00:08:10,062 –> 00:08:12,486
[david_blanchett]: all go up now what’s interesting about
about the

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:08:12,547 –> 00:08:16,894
[david_blanchett]: value of guaranteed income is that it
actually it’s worth the higher interest rates are

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[david_blanchett]: versus self annuitizing right because you can
actually generate more income from just holding tips

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00:08:21,702 –> 00:08:24,526
[david_blanchett]: today just for example right but the
thing is i think that that

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[michael_finke]: yes

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00:08:24,587 –> 00:08:29,475
[david_blanchett]: is actually outweighed by the behavioral benefit
that you get today from buying annuities that

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[david_blanchett]: pay out much higher i think a
lot of people were saying i’m going to

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[david_blanchett]: wait to buy an annuity until rates
are higher you know when michael and i

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[david_blanchett]: were telling everyone is telling a story
they’re actually worth more when rates are lower

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[david_blanchett]: no one could buy them but i
think now we have actually entered a space

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[david_blanchett]: where technically

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[david_blanchett]: technically the value of the guarantee is
less but there’s less behavioral barriers to actually

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[david_blanchett]: buy the annuity because because payorachare is
so much more attractive ye

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michael_finke]: i mean the other aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: no

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[michael_finke]: bruno is if you would have retired
as a lot of people did at the

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[michael_finke]: end of two thousand twenty one

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00:09:00,463 –> 00:09:00,978
[paul_tyler]: ye

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00:09:00,601 –> 00:09:02,224
[michael_finke]: and you had some sort of a
lifetime

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00:09:02,283 –> 00:09:02,465
[paul_tyler]: yeah

289
00:09:02,324 –> 00:09:03,366
[michael_finke]: income benefit

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00:09:03,433 –> 00:09:05,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

291
00:09:04,027 –> 00:09:05,329
[michael_finke]: on a variable note product

292
00:09:05,563 –> 00:09:05,885
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:09:05,690 –> 00:09:05,930
[michael_finke]: then

294
00:09:06,810 –> 00:09:07,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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00:09:07,092 –> 00:09:09,575
[michael_finke]: imagine someone who didn’t have that benefit

296
00:09:09,450 –> 00:09:09,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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00:09:10,056 –> 00:09:10,517
[michael_finke]: how they would

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00:09:10,543 –> 00:09:11,323
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:09:10,577 –> 00:09:12,870
[michael_finke]: be thinking about what to withdraw

300
00:09:13,003 –> 00:09:13,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

301
00:09:13,050 –> 00:09:16,095
[michael_finke]: from their investment tooartfolio over the course
of two thousand twenty

302
00:09:15,943 –> 00:09:16,603
[paul_tyler]: yeah

303
00:09:16,176 –> 00:09:16,316
[michael_finke]: two

304
00:09:17,053 –> 00:09:17,356
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:09:17,077 –> 00:09:20,623
[michael_finke]: if their investments are down by twenty
per cent and they have already been

306
00:09:20,623 –> 00:09:21,313
[paul_tyler]: yeah

307
00:09:20,683 –> 00:09:22,246
[michael_finke]: withdrawing save a million dollar

308
00:09:22,063 –> 00:09:22,753
[paul_tyler]: oh

309
00:09:22,326 –> 00:09:26,358
[michael_finke]: portfolio you started with a million box
you know maybe now you

310
00:09:26,400 –> 00:09:26,721
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

311
00:09:26,418 –> 00:09:30,841
[michael_finke]: have seven hundred and seventy five thousand
dollars maybe laugh you hoped that you could

312
00:09:30,921 –> 00:09:33,425
[michael_finke]: withdraw fifty thousand dollars a year from
your million dollar

313
00:09:33,210 –> 00:09:34,260
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

314
00:09:33,465 –> 00:09:39,776
[michael_finke]: portfolio now you’re significantly lower the risk
of withdrawing that fifty thousand dollars a year

315
00:09:39,916 –> 00:09:43,582
[michael_finke]: is significantly higher than it was at
the beginning of the year will you cut

316
00:09:43,682 –> 00:09:47,449
[michael_finke]: back well you go back now to
forty five thousand or forty thousand dollars thanks

317
00:09:47,569 –> 00:09:50,073
[michael_finke]: the true risk of not having that
income benefit

318
00:09:49,980 –> 00:09:50,221
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

319
00:09:50,133 –> 00:09:51,175
[michael_finke]: if you have the income benefit

320
00:09:50,893 –> 00:09:51,216
[paul_tyler]: yeah

321
00:09:51,215 –> 00:09:52,798
[michael_finke]: you know have to worry about it
i’m just going to

322
00:09:52,813 –> 00:09:53,115
[paul_tyler]: oh

323
00:09:52,838 –> 00:09:53,178
[michael_finke]: keep with

324
00:09:53,280 –> 00:09:53,502
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

325
00:09:53,539 –> 00:09:57,240
[michael_finke]: fifty thousand dollars from that investment portfolio
in the face

326
00:09:57,103 –> 00:09:57,431
[paul_tyler]: yeah

327
00:09:57,380 –> 00:10:02,388
[michael_finke]: of whatever head head wins i’m you
know experiencing all investors are experiencing and

328
00:10:02,328 –> 00:10:02,492
[paul_tyler]: yes

329
00:10:02,448 –> 00:10:06,295
[michael_finke]: it may mean that i deplete my
account faster but that’s okay that’s what that

330
00:10:06,335 –> 00:10:09,400
[michael_finke]: money is there for and that’s why
i also think it’s in ably important at

331
00:10:09,420 –> 00:10:13,787
[michael_finke]: the beginning of retirement to establish how
much of your portfolio you want to use

332
00:10:13,847 –> 00:10:17,694
[michael_finke]: for life style because then you don’t
feel bad about the fact that you’ve depleted

333
00:10:17,734 –> 00:10:20,759
[michael_finke]: the account if you have a lifetime
income benefit it’s just part of the did

334
00:10:20,819 –> 00:10:24,266
[michael_finke]: you and the question is you know
if you’re not you don’t have that then

335
00:10:24,327 –> 00:10:28,295
[michael_finke]: if it what does that imply in
terms of life style volatility

336
00:10:28,140 –> 00:10:28,860
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:10:28,355 –> 00:10:29,558
[michael_finke]: you have to be very flexible

338
00:10:31,744 –> 00:10:32,625
[bruno_caron]: i mean that makes

339
00:10:32,940 –> 00:10:33,223
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

340
00:10:33,006 –> 00:10:36,011
[bruno_caron]: a lot of sense i mean the
two of you have very vocal on the

341
00:10:36,331 –> 00:10:43,303
[bruno_caron]: sequence of return risk which is basically
what you just what you just explain how

342
00:10:43,804 –> 00:10:49,009
[bruno_caron]: how should you new retires view this
this risk in the light

343
00:10:49,050 –> 00:10:49,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

344
00:10:49,169 –> 00:10:51,912
[bruno_caron]: of you know this new economical context

345
00:10:53,646 –> 00:10:53,727
[paul_tyler]: ah

346
00:10:54,562 –> 00:10:56,766
[david_blanchett]: well i think we’ll be able to
take the answer to that about thirty years

347
00:10:56,806 –> 00:10:57,047
[david_blanchett]: from now

348
00:10:57,013 –> 00:10:57,617
[paul_tyler]: uh

349
00:10:57,087 –> 00:10:57,688
[david_blanchett]: right i think that there’s

350
00:10:57,630 –> 00:10:57,650
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

351
00:10:57,708 –> 00:10:58,208
[david_blanchett]: been a lot of great

352
00:10:58,222 –> 00:10:58,243
[paul_tyler]: h

353
00:10:58,269 –> 00:10:58,549
[david_blanchett]: studies

354
00:10:58,375 –> 00:10:58,537
[bruno_caron]: that’s

355
00:10:58,609 –> 00:11:00,352
[david_blanchett]: done using historical long term talking about

356
00:11:00,309 –> 00:11:00,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

357
00:11:00,372 –> 00:11:00,612
[david_blanchett]: you know

358
00:11:00,635 –> 00:11:00,817
[bruno_caron]: hello

359
00:11:00,660 –> 00:11:00,964
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:11:00,853 –> 00:11:01,933
[paul_tyler]: oh

361
00:11:00,973 –> 00:11:03,557
[david_blanchett]: i mean here’s the man we don’t
know we don’t know where markets

362
00:11:03,390 –> 00:11:04,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

363
00:11:03,597 –> 00:11:05,841
[david_blanchett]: are head i en maybe michael does
because he’s like really smart

364
00:11:06,106 –> 00:11:06,127
[paul_tyler]: i

365
00:11:06,282 –> 00:11:06,643
[david_blanchett]: i don’t know

366
00:11:06,604 –> 00:11:07,027
[bruno_caron]: oh

367
00:11:06,853 –> 00:11:07,843
[paul_tyler]: oh

368
00:11:07,023 –> 00:11:07,925
[david_blanchett]: and so what if this is just

369
00:11:07,933 –> 00:11:07,954
[bruno_caron]: h

370
00:11:07,965 –> 00:11:08,926
[david_blanchett]: the beginning what if what if

371
00:11:09,013 –> 00:11:09,613
[paul_tyler]: yeah

372
00:11:09,027 –> 00:11:10,249
[david_blanchett]: equities just go down for a

373
00:11:10,303 –> 00:11:11,476
[paul_tyler]: ye

374
00:11:10,309 –> 00:11:12,953
[david_blanchett]: decade right like this literally could be
the

375
00:11:13,119 –> 00:11:13,140
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

376
00:11:13,133 –> 00:11:17,320
[david_blanchett]: perfect post your child for sequence risk
and that bonds are down stocks are down

377
00:11:17,380 –> 00:11:21,247
[david_blanchett]: inflations of can’t pick a worse environment
like okay there’ve been periods where

378
00:11:20,970 –> 00:11:21,990
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

379
00:11:21,688 –> 00:11:25,374
[david_blanchett]: sixty forty portfolio does has done worse
but it’s hard to find an environment where

380
00:11:25,474 –> 00:11:28,018
[david_blanchett]: inflation has been where it is right
now and stocks

381
00:11:27,819 –> 00:11:27,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

382
00:11:28,058 –> 00:11:29,601
[david_blanchett]: and bonds are both down so i
think that

383
00:11:29,893 –> 00:11:30,787
[paul_tyler]: yeah

384
00:11:30,442 –> 00:11:33,067
[david_blanchett]: to me one thing i have to
this is kind of a check i think

385
00:11:33,107 –> 00:11:34,128
[david_blanchett]: for a lot of retires

386
00:11:34,153 –> 00:11:35,293
[paul_tyler]: yeah

387
00:11:34,208 –> 00:11:36,472
[david_blanchett]: where you know maybe if you haven’t
enjoyed

388
00:11:36,211 –> 00:11:36,354
[michael_finke]: yes

389
00:11:36,512 –> 00:11:39,778
[david_blanchett]: your experience so far things would always
get worse i’m not convinced that you

390
00:11:39,779 –> 00:11:39,800
[paul_tyler]: a

391
00:11:39,818 –> 00:11:42,582
[david_blanchett]: know normally i would say we’ll stay
the course but i don’t know only i

392
00:11:42,623 –> 00:11:42,883
[david_blanchett]: do know

393
00:11:42,819 –> 00:11:42,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

394
00:11:42,923 –> 00:11:44,826
[david_blanchett]: is that you know if you’re an
advisor out there listening

395
00:11:44,940 –> 00:11:45,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

396
00:11:45,227 –> 00:11:47,230
[david_blanchett]: you’ve got clients that have not enjoyed
you know

397
00:11:47,113 –> 00:11:47,863
[paul_tyler]: yeah

398
00:11:47,330 –> 00:11:50,876
[david_blanchett]: twenty twenty two so far maybe it’s
time to ask this question well is it

399
00:11:50,936 –> 00:11:52,819
[david_blanchett]: worth insuring part of what’s left

400
00:11:53,217 –> 00:11:53,237
[paul_tyler]: a

401
00:11:53,260 –> 00:11:58,249
[david_blanchett]: to insure things you get worse that
my clients have locked in now today a

402
00:11:58,309 –> 00:12:00,172
[david_blanchett]: lot higher income right so there is
this effect

403
00:11:59,893 –> 00:12:00,973
[paul_tyler]: oh

404
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:01,314
[david_blanchett]: where if you buy bonds you

405
00:12:01,273 –> 00:12:01,963
[paul_tyler]: yeah

406
00:12:01,374 –> 00:12:01,835
[david_blanchett]: kind of hedge

407
00:12:01,680 –> 00:12:01,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

408
00:12:01,895 –> 00:12:05,360
[david_blanchett]: the income and that when bonds go
down interest payots go up

409
00:12:05,985 –> 00:12:06,086
[paul_tyler]: ah

410
00:12:06,202 –> 00:12:07,964
[david_blanchett]: now as the time it’s worth reassessing

411
00:12:07,874 –> 00:12:08,035
[paul_tyler]: yeah

412
00:12:08,925 –> 00:12:10,788
[david_blanchett]: is a investment driven strategy working

413
00:12:10,825 –> 00:12:11,736
[paul_tyler]: yeah

414
00:12:10,948 –> 00:12:12,870
[david_blanchett]: if not what other options are out
there

415
00:12:13,990 –> 00:12:15,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: so how are your various audiences

416
00:12:15,804 –> 00:12:15,968
[michael_finke]: yeah

417
00:12:16,153 –> 00:12:16,903
[paul_tyler]: yeah

418
00:12:16,372 –> 00:12:17,533
[ramsey_d_smith]: responding to that so

419
00:12:17,593 –> 00:12:17,975
[paul_tyler]: yeah

420
00:12:18,014 –> 00:12:19,135
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know you both you

421
00:12:19,333 –> 00:12:19,534
[paul_tyler]: oh

422
00:12:19,335 –> 00:12:23,018
[ramsey_d_smith]: re are out speaking at conference s
you’ve got webinars

423
00:12:24,253 –> 00:12:24,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

424
00:12:24,960 –> 00:12:25,421
[ramsey_d_smith]: typically

425
00:12:25,235 –> 00:12:25,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

426
00:12:25,721 –> 00:12:27,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: like the composition of those audiences

427
00:12:27,523 –> 00:12:27,807
[paul_tyler]: yeah

428
00:12:27,965 –> 00:12:28,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more

429
00:12:29,263 –> 00:12:30,463
[paul_tyler]: yeah

430
00:12:30,129 –> 00:12:31,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: insurance agents is it more

431
00:12:32,083 –> 00:12:32,345
[paul_tyler]: yeah

432
00:12:32,454 –> 00:12:34,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is it more fenuciadvisors

433
00:12:33,900 –> 00:12:34,062
[paul_tyler]: yeah

434
00:12:35,950 –> 00:12:39,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: who are the sort of the whore
the various consistent with constituencies you talked to

435
00:12:39,540 –> 00:12:44,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: and how are they responding to these
to these changes anyway i assume i sum

436
00:12:44,382 –> 00:12:44,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: it comes

437
00:12:44,570 –> 00:12:44,953
[michael_finke]: ramsey

438
00:12:44,682 –> 00:12:45,003
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the q

439
00:12:45,114 –> 00:12:45,255
[michael_finke]: just

440
00:12:45,224 –> 00:12:45,264
[ramsey_d_smith]: n

441
00:12:45,336 –> 00:12:45,356
[michael_finke]: a

442
00:12:45,344 –> 00:12:45,364
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

443
00:12:45,396 –> 00:12:45,719
[michael_finke]: week and a

444
00:12:45,705 –> 00:12:45,865
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

445
00:12:45,779 –> 00:12:46,202
[michael_finke]: half ago

446
00:12:47,108 –> 00:12:47,228
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

447
00:12:47,709 –> 00:12:53,347
[michael_finke]: i presented two presentations at napa which
is a fee only adviser conference

448
00:12:53,361 –> 00:12:53,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: yep

449
00:12:54,109 –> 00:12:59,202
[michael_finke]: i presented at napa maybe four years
ago i had some similar messageting in both

450
00:12:59,262 –> 00:13:03,630
[michael_finke]: presentations and i will tell you there
has been a sea change and openness towards

451
00:13:03,710 –> 00:13:05,633
[michael_finke]: the use of annuities among

452
00:13:05,652 –> 00:13:05,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:13:06,013 –> 00:13:06,474
[michael_finke]: fee only

454
00:13:06,459 –> 00:13:06,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

455
00:13:06,594 –> 00:13:08,518
[michael_finke]: advisers there’s an increasing

456
00:13:08,109 –> 00:13:08,130
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

457
00:13:08,598 –> 00:13:11,683
[michael_finke]: recogna and that if they’re going to
be a fiduciary they at least have to

458
00:13:11,723 –> 00:13:14,668
[michael_finke]: consider the use of annuities it’s not
just something that they can

459
00:13:14,739 –> 00:13:14,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

460
00:13:14,748 –> 00:13:19,055
[michael_finke]: exclude and feel like they’re always going
to be making a decision in the benefit

461
00:13:19,376 –> 00:13:24,524
[michael_finke]: of the client by exclude inganuities um
you know and then i also see statements

462
00:13:24,805 –> 00:13:30,194
[michael_finke]: such as i was just going on
line to a certain famous investment advisors site

463
00:13:30,715 –> 00:13:31,316
[michael_finke]: and he had

464
00:13:31,200 –> 00:13:31,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

465
00:13:31,376 –> 00:13:36,431
[michael_finke]: to quote on his site that there’s
nothing that you can do with annuities that

466
00:13:36,591 –> 00:13:39,922
[michael_finke]: i can’t do with investments and there
is not

467
00:13:39,962 –> 00:13:40,063
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

468
00:13:39,982 –> 00:13:44,496
[michael_finke]: a single economist who studies retirement income
planning who would agree with that state and

469
00:13:44,473 –> 00:13:44,696
[paul_tyler]: yeah

470
00:13:44,557 –> 00:13:45,910
[michael_finke]: it’s just demonstrably

471
00:13:45,343 –> 00:13:45,666
[paul_tyler]: yeah

472
00:13:45,789 –> 00:13:45,810
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

473
00:13:46,030 –> 00:13:46,390
[michael_finke]: false

474
00:13:46,736 –> 00:13:46,837
[paul_tyler]: it

475
00:13:47,152 –> 00:13:48,213
[michael_finke]: that attitude

476
00:13:47,944 –> 00:13:48,144
[bruno_caron]: yeah

477
00:13:48,514 –> 00:13:49,175
[michael_finke]: pervaded

478
00:13:49,355 –> 00:13:49,436
[paul_tyler]: ah

479
00:13:49,456 –> 00:13:49,736
[michael_finke]: i think

480
00:13:49,950 –> 00:13:50,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

481
00:13:50,197 –> 00:13:50,279
[paul_tyler]: ah

482
00:13:50,437 –> 00:13:50,998
[michael_finke]: this industry

483
00:13:50,743 –> 00:13:54,253
[paul_tyler]: yeah

484
00:13:51,078 –> 00:13:52,661
[michael_finke]: in many cases especially with the only

485
00:13:52,663 –> 00:13:52,804
[bruno_caron]: yeah

486
00:13:52,741 –> 00:13:56,487
[michael_finke]: industry that attitude has gone away as
far as i am concerned you know i’m

487
00:13:56,527 –> 00:14:00,254
[michael_finke]: not giving these intations i’m seeing a
new level of open it and it is

488
00:14:00,514 –> 00:14:04,140
[michael_finke]: really reassuring to see i think you
know both david and i come from a

489
00:14:04,220 –> 00:14:06,203
[michael_finke]: background where we have

490
00:14:06,043 –> 00:14:06,853
[paul_tyler]: yeah

491
00:14:06,324 –> 00:14:09,229
[michael_finke]: worked with investment advisors who are compensated

492
00:14:09,241 –> 00:14:09,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

493
00:14:09,309 –> 00:14:10,811
[michael_finke]: they on sieve we do

494
00:14:10,869 –> 00:14:10,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

495
00:14:10,891 –> 00:14:16,120
[michael_finke]: have a very fiduciary mind set the
word but we want to make sure that

496
00:14:16,441 –> 00:14:20,307
[michael_finke]: when advisors are making decisions that they’re
making decisions that are going to be in

497
00:14:20,347 –> 00:14:24,193
[michael_finke]: the best interest of it clint and
we’ve been arguing obviously for a long time

498
00:14:24,274 –> 00:14:26,016
[michael_finke]: that getting rid of this ideosandcradic

499
00:14:25,693 –> 00:14:26,773
[paul_tyler]: yeah

500
00:14:26,157 –> 00:14:30,223
[michael_finke]: engevity risk is an important part of
retirement income planning people can live better if

501
00:14:30,264 –> 00:14:36,212
[michael_finke]: they do it that way i’m seeing
a change frankly it’s reassuring and it’s great

502
00:14:36,293 –> 00:14:39,897
[michael_finke]: that the message is getting out there
but it’s also a message that needs to

503
00:14:39,957 –> 00:14:45,822
[michael_finke]: be couch and it’s something that you
know i think the insurance industry and i’m

504
00:14:45,862 –> 00:14:46,744
[michael_finke]: sure we’ve talked

505
00:14:46,634 –> 00:14:48,853
[paul_tyler]: right

506
00:14:46,784 –> 00:14:50,211
[michael_finke]: about this in the past but to
the extent that there can

507
00:14:50,203 –> 00:14:52,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

508
00:14:50,272 –> 00:14:54,479
[michael_finke]: be consistency in terms of sale practices
and messaging

509
00:14:54,330 –> 00:14:54,651
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

510
00:14:54,939 –> 00:14:56,422
[michael_finke]: i’m also seeing in the insurance

511
00:14:56,370 –> 00:14:56,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

512
00:14:56,462 –> 00:15:00,128
[michael_finke]: industry that they are hiring people who
deal with these types of advisors who are

513
00:15:00,168 –> 00:15:05,617
[michael_finke]: really or on how to use annuity
product efficiently for a client but i think

514
00:15:05,637 –> 00:15:12,088
[michael_finke]: that the industry as a whole really
has harmed itself in many ways by not

515
00:15:12,228 –> 00:15:16,033
[michael_finke]: rain and some of the more abusive
sales practices that we continue to see and

516
00:15:16,694 –> 00:15:19,738
[michael_finke]: it’s going to continue to color people’s
impressions of the industry

517
00:15:21,113 –> 00:15:23,698
[david_blanchett]: i mean so i would say i’m
seeing this as michael and

518
00:15:23,803 –> 00:15:24,063
[paul_tyler]: oh

519
00:15:23,818 –> 00:15:24,880
[david_blanchett]: the one point that i make to

520
00:15:24,832 –> 00:15:24,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

521
00:15:25,501 –> 00:15:26,302
[david_blanchett]: people when i talk about

522
00:15:26,494 –> 00:15:27,394
[bruno_caron]: yeah

523
00:15:26,502 –> 00:15:26,663
[david_blanchett]: anne

524
00:15:26,520 –> 00:15:26,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

525
00:15:26,593 –> 00:15:26,834
[paul_tyler]: yeah

526
00:15:26,763 –> 00:15:28,145
[david_blanchett]: use is like i’m not suggesting that

527
00:15:28,204 –> 00:15:28,466
[bruno_caron]: oh

528
00:15:28,205 –> 00:15:28,566
[david_blanchett]: all of your

529
00:15:28,620 –> 00:15:29,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

530
00:15:28,626 –> 00:15:29,868
[david_blanchett]: clients need an annuity

531
00:15:29,944 –> 00:15:30,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

532
00:15:29,948 –> 00:15:31,471
[david_blanchett]: or maybe it’s less than like five
percent

533
00:15:31,723 –> 00:15:32,353
[paul_tyler]: oh

534
00:15:31,751 –> 00:15:33,274
[david_blanchett]: but it’s not zero and i think
that far

535
00:15:33,278 –> 00:15:33,298
[paul_tyler]: i

536
00:15:33,374 –> 00:15:34,295
[david_blanchett]: too many advisors

537
00:15:33,973 –> 00:15:35,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

538
00:15:34,396 –> 00:15:37,621
[david_blanchett]: that are doing retirement income planning is

539
00:15:37,560 –> 00:15:37,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

540
00:15:38,142 –> 00:15:38,222
[david_blanchett]: the

541
00:15:38,224 –> 00:15:38,944
[bruno_caron]: oh

542
00:15:38,282 –> 00:15:39,163
[david_blanchett]: number of their clients

543
00:15:39,060 –> 00:15:40,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

544
00:15:39,184 –> 00:15:41,748
[david_blanchett]: that have any kind of product that
provides guaranteed lifetime

545
00:15:41,533 –> 00:15:41,793
[paul_tyler]: yeah

546
00:15:41,828 –> 00:15:44,553
[david_blanchett]: income is zero and so i think
the goal to kind of get

547
00:15:44,593 –> 00:15:44,917
[paul_tyler]: yeah

548
00:15:44,613 –> 00:15:49,341
[david_blanchett]: them to kind of more actively considerate
and i do feel like we’re making positive

549
00:15:49,292 –> 00:15:49,843
[paul_tyler]: yeah

550
00:15:49,381 –> 00:15:50,743
[david_blanchett]: steps but you know to be

551
00:15:50,745 –> 00:15:50,846
[paul_tyler]: ah

552
00:15:50,803 –> 00:15:54,129
[david_blanchett]: honest we haven’t made the steps thought
we would have five years ago hopefully the

553
00:15:54,169 –> 00:15:56,109
[david_blanchett]: next five years is better oh

554
00:15:57,681 –> 00:16:01,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so before the call we
we touched briefly

555
00:16:00,856 –> 00:16:00,876
[bruno_caron]: m

556
00:16:01,267 –> 00:16:04,873
[ramsey_d_smith]: on the on the four percent rule
and that’s a that

557
00:16:04,804 –> 00:16:05,644
[bruno_caron]: oh

558
00:16:04,933 –> 00:16:05,113
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a

559
00:16:05,623 –> 00:16:06,150
[paul_tyler]: oh

560
00:16:05,854 –> 00:16:08,499
[ramsey_d_smith]: that discussion is a very regular refrain
on this

561
00:16:08,708 –> 00:16:08,810
[bruno_caron]: yes

562
00:16:09,100 –> 00:16:13,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: on this show so wanted to get
a sense first of what your what you’re

563
00:16:13,647 –> 00:16:17,033
[ramsey_d_smith]: both of your recent thoughts are on
the four percent role and it’s and it’s

564
00:16:17,674 –> 00:16:21,122
[ramsey_d_smith]: and it’s it’s rolled in the in
the personal financial man but

565
00:16:21,103 –> 00:16:21,447
[paul_tyler]: oh

566
00:16:21,163 –> 00:16:21,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: discussion

567
00:16:22,423 –> 00:16:23,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

568
00:16:24,382 –> 00:16:24,644
[david_blanchett]: oh

569
00:16:24,560 –> 00:16:24,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’ll start with

570
00:16:24,909 –> 00:16:25,231
[michael_finke]: ramsey

571
00:16:25,002 –> 00:16:25,404
[ramsey_d_smith]: you michael

572
00:16:26,007 –> 00:16:26,170
[bruno_caron]: yes

573
00:16:27,029 –> 00:16:27,109
[michael_finke]: you

574
00:16:27,064 –> 00:16:27,346
[bruno_caron]: yah

575
00:16:27,149 –> 00:16:27,770
[michael_finke]: know i just gave

576
00:16:27,630 –> 00:16:28,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: yea

577
00:16:27,830 –> 00:16:28,772
[michael_finke]: a presentation

578
00:16:29,542 –> 00:16:29,683
[bruno_caron]: yah

579
00:16:29,914 –> 00:16:31,516
[michael_finke]: at tim co and

580
00:16:31,534 –> 00:16:31,756
[bruno_caron]: yeah

581
00:16:32,839 –> 00:16:34,662
[michael_finke]: at the very beginning of the presentation

582
00:16:34,376 –> 00:16:34,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

583
00:16:35,202 –> 00:16:40,592
[michael_finke]: there was an introduction by richard taylor
of the topic the four percent rule and

584
00:16:40,913 –> 00:16:41,113
[michael_finke]: his

585
00:16:41,164 –> 00:16:41,466
[bruno_caron]: my

586
00:16:41,354 –> 00:16:47,447
[michael_finke]: introduction was well everybody knows that the
four per cent rule is dumb you know

587
00:16:47,667 –> 00:16:51,203
[michael_finke]: ted richard taylor by the way is
a novel lariayouknow the father

588
00:16:50,970 –> 00:16:51,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

589
00:16:51,263 –> 00:16:53,467
[michael_finke]: of behavioral finance and his impression

590
00:16:53,115 –> 00:16:53,156
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

591
00:16:53,547 –> 00:16:53,848
[michael_finke]: of the four

592
00:16:53,829 –> 00:16:53,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

593
00:16:53,928 –> 00:16:55,791
[michael_finke]: percent rule is pretty much consistent with

594
00:16:55,650 –> 00:16:55,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

595
00:16:56,292 –> 00:16:56,572
[michael_finke]: the way a

596
00:16:56,554 –> 00:16:56,776
[bruno_caron]: oh

597
00:16:56,632 –> 00:16:59,457
[michael_finke]: lot of us have thought about it
for a long time it’s not so much

598
00:16:59,477 –> 00:16:59,577
[michael_finke]: that

599
00:16:59,619 –> 00:16:59,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:16:59,637 –> 00:16:59,677
[michael_finke]: it

601
00:16:59,674 –> 00:16:59,694
[bruno_caron]: m

602
00:16:59,717 –> 00:16:59,838
[michael_finke]: would

603
00:16:59,730 –> 00:16:59,971
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

604
00:17:00,439 –> 00:17:01,600
[michael_finke]: the original conception

605
00:17:01,241 –> 00:17:01,404
[paul_tyler]: yeah

606
00:17:01,741 –> 00:17:02,181
[michael_finke]: was dumb

607
00:17:02,149 –> 00:17:02,250
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

608
00:17:02,203 –> 00:17:02,953
[paul_tyler]: yeah

609
00:17:02,241 –> 00:17:02,802
[michael_finke]: in fact they made

610
00:17:02,674 –> 00:17:02,916
[bruno_caron]: oh

611
00:17:02,842 –> 00:17:03,503
[michael_finke]: a very good

612
00:17:03,422 –> 00:17:03,544
[bruno_caron]: yeah

613
00:17:03,644 –> 00:17:05,767
[michael_finke]: point bill began when he wrote the
paper and that

614
00:17:05,644 –> 00:17:05,664
[bruno_caron]: m

615
00:17:05,867 –> 00:17:11,837
[michael_finke]: is you can’t simply rely on average
returns to estimate what is safe with roll

616
00:17:11,764 –> 00:17:11,784
[bruno_caron]: m

617
00:17:11,897 –> 00:17:13,319
[michael_finke]: rated so you use historical

618
00:17:13,024 –> 00:17:13,044
[bruno_caron]: m

619
00:17:13,560 –> 00:17:18,708
[michael_finke]: united states returns et cetera and one
aspect of the four percent rule that got

620
00:17:18,788 –> 00:17:21,544
[michael_finke]: take up with this idea of a
fixed

621
00:17:21,960 –> 00:17:22,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

622
00:17:22,259 –> 00:17:27,544
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile portfoltha ou
simply can’t do that can’t have a fixed

623
00:17:27,624 –> 00:17:29,345
[michael_finke]: spending amount from a volatile

624
00:17:28,959 –> 00:17:28,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

625
00:17:29,385 –> 00:17:31,407
[michael_finke]: portfolio because the portfolio rise

626
00:17:31,389 –> 00:17:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

627
00:17:31,467 –> 00:17:33,520
[michael_finke]: and fall over time and if it
falls

628
00:17:33,360 –> 00:17:33,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:17:33,600 –> 00:17:38,027
[michael_finke]: over time and you get a decade
for example like the one retires may be

630
00:17:38,107 –> 00:17:41,853
[michael_finke]: facing they’ve retired in two thousand twenty
one the reality is that they’re going to

631
00:17:41,893 –> 00:17:43,396
[michael_finke]: have to cut back on their spending

632
00:17:43,054 –> 00:17:43,294
[bruno_caron]: oh

633
00:17:43,539 –> 00:17:43,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

634
00:17:44,358 –> 00:17:44,638
[michael_finke]: in that

635
00:17:44,739 –> 00:17:44,760
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

636
00:17:45,139 –> 00:17:46,621
[michael_finke]: to some different variants

637
00:17:46,269 –> 00:17:47,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

638
00:17:46,681 –> 00:17:46,722
[michael_finke]: of

639
00:17:46,703 –> 00:17:46,864
[bruno_caron]: yeah

640
00:17:46,782 –> 00:17:48,164
[michael_finke]: the four percent rule that

641
00:17:48,150 –> 00:17:49,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

642
00:17:48,224 –> 00:17:50,748
[michael_finke]: created guard rails to allow clients

643
00:17:50,469 –> 00:17:50,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

644
00:17:50,848 –> 00:17:52,712
[michael_finke]: to adjust their spending upward or downward

645
00:17:52,645 –> 00:17:52,787
[paul_tyler]: what

646
00:17:53,052 –> 00:17:56,338
[michael_finke]: that’s probably a more realistic approach to
trying to develop a spending

647
00:17:56,319 –> 00:17:56,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:17:56,398 –> 00:18:02,628
[michael_finke]: plan from volatile portfolio but again it
also doesn’t address this idea of umlaungevity risk

649
00:18:03,129 –> 00:18:08,558
[michael_finke]: and it doesn’t really say anything about
what happens when you fail you know people

650
00:18:08,638 –> 00:18:12,489
[michael_finke]: run then marti carlo analysis and maybe
you have an eighty percent chance of success

651
00:18:12,509 –> 00:18:17,662
[michael_finke]: but there’s no information about how bad
things can get when you experience when you’re

652
00:18:17,762 –> 00:18:21,368
[michael_finke]: one of those twenty percent of retires
to experience failure and so i kind of

653
00:18:21,428 –> 00:18:27,318
[michael_finke]: is type like to us something called
a utility analysis where it recognizes that

654
00:18:27,274 –> 00:18:29,824
[bruno_caron]: yeah

655
00:18:28,019 –> 00:18:30,744
[michael_finke]: you know if you fail to spend
eight thousand dollars

656
00:18:30,810 –> 00:18:31,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

657
00:18:30,844 –> 00:18:31,104
[michael_finke]: a year

658
00:18:30,924 –> 00:18:30,985
[bruno_caron]: ah

659
00:18:31,645 –> 00:18:32,486
[michael_finke]: but the downside

660
00:18:32,313 –> 00:18:32,374
[bruno_caron]: ah

661
00:18:32,547 –> 00:18:33,749
[michael_finke]: is that you’re spending seventy thousand

662
00:18:33,570 –> 00:18:33,855
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

663
00:18:33,789 –> 00:18:38,416
[michael_finke]: dollars a year that’s okay that’s that’s
a much better failure than having to go

664
00:18:38,496 –> 00:18:40,099
[michael_finke]: from eight thousand to thirty thousand

665
00:18:40,059 –> 00:18:40,080
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

666
00:18:40,139 –> 00:18:41,201
[michael_finke]: dollars a year and live off

667
00:18:41,203 –> 00:18:41,504
[paul_tyler]: oh

668
00:18:41,261 –> 00:18:42,603
[michael_finke]: social security so

669
00:18:43,043 –> 00:18:43,590
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

670
00:18:43,264 –> 00:18:45,087
[michael_finke]: the gradation of life style

671
00:18:45,249 –> 00:18:45,270
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

672
00:18:45,548 –> 00:18:46,650
[michael_finke]: is what is captured

673
00:18:46,499 –> 00:18:46,561
[paul_tyler]: ay

674
00:18:46,710 –> 00:18:48,173
[michael_finke]: by using a utility analysis

675
00:18:47,788 –> 00:18:47,871
[paul_tyler]: ah

676
00:18:47,919 –> 00:18:47,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

677
00:18:48,233 –> 00:18:49,314
[michael_finke]: but it’s a little bit less

678
00:18:49,560 –> 00:18:49,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:18:49,815 –> 00:18:53,722
[michael_finke]: easy for advisors to understand output it
can optimize

680
00:18:53,319 –> 00:18:53,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

681
00:18:53,802 –> 00:18:58,971
[michael_finke]: but it can’t necessarily show you a
very compelling a vocative statistics like a failure

682
00:18:59,011 –> 00:18:59,752
[michael_finke]: rate but that

683
00:18:59,635 –> 00:18:59,656
[bruno_caron]: i

684
00:18:59,832 –> 00:19:00,353
[michael_finke]: failure rate

685
00:19:00,450 –> 00:19:01,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

686
00:19:00,814 –> 00:19:05,711
[michael_finke]: really neglects a lot of important information
and that should go into the retirement

687
00:19:05,353 –> 00:19:06,632
[paul_tyler]: oh

688
00:19:05,751 –> 00:19:06,495
[michael_finke]: planning process

689
00:19:07,303 –> 00:19:08,173
[paul_tyler]: oh

690
00:19:07,980 –> 00:19:12,368
[ramsey_d_smith]: well it seems to me that like
the way that the rule is used and

691
00:19:13,590 –> 00:19:16,054
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m being this is a rough rough
way of putting it but

692
00:19:16,505 –> 00:19:17,562
[paul_tyler]: yea

693
00:19:16,595 –> 00:19:19,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: it sort of described in a very
linear way and what you’re talking about is

694
00:19:19,483 –> 00:19:19,704
[paul_tyler]: yeah

695
00:19:19,720 –> 00:19:23,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: right has right the utility function as
a curve to it right

696
00:19:23,053 –> 00:19:23,295
[paul_tyler]: oh

697
00:19:23,466 –> 00:19:23,687
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

698
00:19:24,354 –> 00:19:24,516
[paul_tyler]: yeah

699
00:19:24,588 –> 00:19:26,832
[ramsey_d_smith]: to your point going from eighty to
seventy maybe means

700
00:19:26,713 –> 00:19:27,373
[paul_tyler]: oh

701
00:19:27,273 –> 00:19:27,854
[ramsey_d_smith]: right fewer

702
00:19:27,763 –> 00:19:28,024
[paul_tyler]: oh

703
00:19:27,874 –> 00:19:30,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: trips to the golf course but going
from seventy

704
00:19:30,424 –> 00:19:30,628
[bruno_caron]: oh

705
00:19:30,578 –> 00:19:31,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: to thirty it

706
00:19:31,935 –> 00:19:32,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

707
00:19:31,960 –> 00:19:33,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: means you know a lot more

708
00:19:33,274 –> 00:19:33,294
[bruno_caron]: m

709
00:19:33,303 –> 00:19:33,683
[ramsey_d_smith]: essentials

710
00:19:33,613 –> 00:19:34,393
[paul_tyler]: oh

711
00:19:33,743 –> 00:19:38,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: are you know are at risk um
know we had we had william began on

712
00:19:38,692 –> 00:19:39,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: the show some

713
00:19:39,643 –> 00:19:39,904
[paul_tyler]: yeah

714
00:19:39,653 –> 00:19:40,715
[ramsey_d_smith]: number of months ago and

715
00:19:40,834 –> 00:19:41,734
[bruno_caron]: oh

716
00:19:41,296 –> 00:19:42,999
[ramsey_d_smith]: one of the things that was really
remarkable as i

717
00:19:43,033 –> 00:19:43,274
[paul_tyler]: oh

718
00:19:43,039 –> 00:19:45,303
[ramsey_d_smith]: think that he would find common ground
with you and many of the things

719
00:19:45,283 –> 00:19:45,544
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:19:45,343 –> 00:19:47,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: you said he talked about spending

721
00:19:47,053 –> 00:19:47,338
[paul_tyler]: oh

722
00:19:47,306 –> 00:19:52,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: control is sort of a fundamental underlying
element that isn’t talked about enough um the

723
00:19:52,635 –> 00:19:53,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: four percent rule is i think it’s

724
00:19:54,394 –> 00:19:54,878
[paul_tyler]: i test

725
00:19:54,618 –> 00:19:54,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

726
00:19:54,656 –> 00:19:54,677
[michael_finke]: i

727
00:19:54,778 –> 00:19:57,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: view is it’s really good bench mark
and a good place to start a discussion

728
00:19:57,323 –> 00:19:57,504
[paul_tyler]: yeah

729
00:19:59,366 –> 00:20:00,668
[ramsey_d_smith]: and unfortunately

730
00:20:00,232 –> 00:20:00,514
[david_blanchett]: oh

731
00:20:00,768 –> 00:20:02,932
[ramsey_d_smith]: it has been sort of over utilized
as a

732
00:20:02,985 –> 00:20:03,085
[bruno_caron]: is

733
00:20:03,713 –> 00:20:03,914
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

734
00:20:05,674 –> 00:20:05,898
[bruno_caron]: yeah

735
00:20:06,318 –> 00:20:08,989
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s been used dogmatical in a way
i don’t think it was ever actually

736
00:20:08,985 –> 00:20:09,188
[bruno_caron]: yes

737
00:20:09,009 –> 00:20:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: meant to be meant to be applied

738
00:20:12,342 –> 00:20:12,402
[david_blanchett]: so

739
00:20:12,588 –> 00:20:12,709
[paul_tyler]: yeah

740
00:20:12,622 –> 00:20:15,026
[david_blanchett]: i mean real quick i mean all
all it tells you

741
00:20:14,974 –> 00:20:14,994
[bruno_caron]: m

742
00:20:15,647 –> 00:20:19,033
[david_blanchett]: is how much you need to have
saved when you retire it’s really you just

743
00:20:19,073 –> 00:20:20,075
[david_blanchett]: need twenty five times

744
00:20:19,849 –> 00:20:20,509
[michael_finke]: yeah

745
00:20:20,115 –> 00:20:22,980
[david_blanchett]: your income goal that’s all it’s ever
intended to do i think

746
00:20:22,949 –> 00:20:22,969
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

747
00:20:23,420 –> 00:20:23,981
[david_blanchett]: i think that

748
00:20:23,940 –> 00:20:24,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

749
00:20:24,222 –> 00:20:25,304
[david_blanchett]: that advice is still

750
00:20:25,500 –> 00:20:25,641
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

751
00:20:25,564 –> 00:20:27,167
[david_blanchett]: is still a decent rule of thumb

752
00:20:27,258 –> 00:20:27,399
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

753
00:20:27,327 –> 00:20:27,728
[david_blanchett]: i mean it’s

754
00:20:27,760 –> 00:20:27,901
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

755
00:20:27,768 –> 00:20:29,871
[david_blanchett]: obviously not optima for everyone i think

756
00:20:29,700 –> 00:20:29,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

757
00:20:29,991 –> 00:20:32,896
[david_blanchett]: the larger issue as michal points out
are the underling assumptions

758
00:20:32,889 –> 00:20:32,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

759
00:20:32,936 –> 00:20:37,364
[david_blanchett]: that have been used in that model
and other models as well they’ll still permeate

760
00:20:37,724 –> 00:20:41,050
[david_blanchett]: the advisors use today and i think
that you know using some of those assumptions

761
00:20:41,130 –> 00:20:41,591
[david_blanchett]: can lead to

762
00:20:41,550 –> 00:20:41,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

763
00:20:41,791 –> 00:20:45,758
[david_blanchett]: radically bad advice for advisors who are
doing these financial plans

764
00:20:45,570 –> 00:20:45,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

765
00:20:45,838 –> 00:20:50,367
[david_blanchett]: for individuals when focus on things like
the probe ability of success that totally ignores

766
00:20:50,407 –> 00:20:51,129
[david_blanchett]: the magnitude of fill

767
00:20:51,360 –> 00:20:51,380
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

768
00:20:52,794 –> 00:20:55,919
[paul_tyler]: well maybe talk we could talk a
little bit about

769
00:20:56,086 –> 00:20:56,187
[bruno_caron]: ah

770
00:20:56,120 –> 00:21:01,028
[paul_tyler]: you know advice in this period of
time i think of all the rules that

771
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:01,729
[paul_tyler]: we’ve talked

772
00:21:01,599 –> 00:21:01,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

773
00:21:01,749 –> 00:21:05,736
[paul_tyler]: about things like don’t try to time
the mark well should you try the time

774
00:21:05,776 –> 00:21:07,178
[paul_tyler]: to interest environment

775
00:21:07,209 –> 00:21:07,230
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

776
00:21:07,579 –> 00:21:09,181
[paul_tyler]: right the interest rate and why should
i try

777
00:21:09,229 –> 00:21:09,493
[michael_finke]: my

778
00:21:09,262 –> 00:21:09,342
[paul_tyler]: to

779
00:21:09,579 –> 00:21:09,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

780
00:21:09,983 –> 00:21:16,434
[paul_tyler]: should i try to time the guaranteed
income market i never would have expected we

781
00:21:16,594 –> 00:21:24,988
[paul_tyler]: see such change dave that we talked
about earlier in income interest rates um and

782
00:21:25,068 –> 00:21:26,470
[paul_tyler]: just to give you a little bit
of color

783
00:21:26,169 –> 00:21:26,251
[bruno_caron]: ah

784
00:21:27,212 –> 00:21:27,352
[paul_tyler]: we’ve

785
00:21:27,299 –> 00:21:27,421
[bruno_caron]: is

786
00:21:27,392 –> 00:21:30,056
[paul_tyler]: had so much activity you knows a
car as carriers

787
00:21:30,240 –> 00:21:30,664
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:21:30,637 –> 00:21:34,864
[paul_tyler]: trying to keep up with rates and
deliver now value consumers an agent the same

789
00:21:34,924 –> 00:21:37,108
[paul_tyler]: time agents have used this and advisers

790
00:21:36,630 –> 00:21:36,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

791
00:21:36,810 –> 00:21:37,051
[bruno_caron]: yes

792
00:21:37,168 –> 00:21:40,894
[paul_tyler]: are using this opportunity to go back
and say you know you were in this

793
00:21:40,954 –> 00:21:46,043
[paul_tyler]: product you were in this plan will
move you to hear um carries there’s a

794
00:21:46,063 –> 00:21:48,046
[paul_tyler]: tremendous backlog in carriers

795
00:21:48,930 –> 00:21:49,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

796
00:21:48,988 –> 00:21:53,415
[paul_tyler]: a lot of this a lot of
the money is coming from retirement accounts investment

797
00:21:53,455 –> 00:21:55,579
[paul_tyler]: accounts and they may have started

798
00:21:55,474 –> 00:21:55,836
[bruno_caron]: oh

799
00:21:55,639 –> 00:22:00,156
[paul_tyler]: a conversation with a with their advisor
two months ago the money hasn’t transferred yet

800
00:22:01,097 –> 00:22:02,179
[paul_tyler]: and the balances are down

801
00:22:02,250 –> 00:22:02,970
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

802
00:22:03,141 –> 00:22:07,007
[paul_tyler]: so it’s really this really strange hurry
up and weight

803
00:22:07,020 –> 00:22:07,349
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

804
00:22:07,127 –> 00:22:12,336
[paul_tyler]: i mean what would your advice be
and all as david and michael to advisors

805
00:22:12,436 –> 00:22:14,660
[paul_tyler]: who are in that transition point

806
00:22:14,401 –> 00:22:14,522
[michael_finke]: or

807
00:22:14,800 –> 00:22:19,047
[paul_tyler]: at this moment with a client trying
to move them from a market based you

808
00:22:19,087 –> 00:22:19,488
[paul_tyler]: know from

809
00:22:19,919 –> 00:22:19,999
[michael_finke]: we

810
00:22:20,930 –> 00:22:22,292
[paul_tyler]: equity exposure into it

811
00:22:22,449 –> 00:22:22,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:22:22,474 –> 00:22:22,857
[paul_tyler]: guaranteed

813
00:22:22,661 –> 00:22:22,702
[michael_finke]: a

814
00:22:22,897 –> 00:22:23,502
[paul_tyler]: income space

815
00:22:24,973 –> 00:22:25,293
[david_blanchett]: so the one

816
00:22:25,223 –> 00:22:25,364
[paul_tyler]: yeah

817
00:22:25,313 –> 00:22:25,574
[david_blanchett]: thing that

818
00:22:25,800 –> 00:22:25,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

819
00:22:25,955 –> 00:22:29,142
[david_blanchett]: i think is a bit different now
versus like where we were in early twenty

820
00:22:29,222 –> 00:22:31,287
[david_blanchett]: twenty is that they weren’t necessarily

821
00:22:30,904 –> 00:22:30,924
[bruno_caron]: m

822
00:22:31,327 –> 00:22:34,453
[david_blanchett]: very good you know safe options that
now

823
00:22:34,543 –> 00:22:34,564
[bruno_caron]: m

824
00:22:34,554 –> 00:22:38,460
[david_blanchett]: you can get my guess yielding five
per cent the caps on fees spectacular i

825
00:22:38,520 –> 00:22:43,108
[david_blanchett]: think that you know that i always
worry about investors staying the course right

826
00:22:43,003 –> 00:22:43,227
[paul_tyler]: yes

827
00:22:43,448 –> 00:22:47,956
[david_blanchett]: but it’s always kind of dorbydory or
do i stick with the balance portfolio or

828
00:22:48,016 –> 00:22:50,320
[david_blanchett]: do i move to something else that
may be more secure well now

829
00:22:50,889 –> 00:22:50,910
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

830
00:22:51,281 –> 00:22:54,787
[david_blanchett]: i do think it’s worth having conversations
and say hey you know the markets might

831
00:22:54,847 –> 00:22:57,292
[david_blanchett]: rally they have rallied so far that
they might rally last month

832
00:22:57,189 –> 00:22:57,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

833
00:22:57,393 –> 00:22:58,504
[david_blanchett]: i rally michael down again

834
00:22:58,744 –> 00:22:58,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

835
00:22:59,622 –> 00:23:00,223
[david_blanchett]: how do you feel

836
00:23:00,279 –> 00:23:00,300
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

837
00:23:00,283 –> 00:23:01,485
[david_blanchett]: about your current your current

838
00:23:01,294 –> 00:23:02,134
[bruno_caron]: yeah

839
00:23:01,545 –> 00:23:05,492
[david_blanchett]: strategy and i think that now more
than ever you know it’s worth advisors understanding

840
00:23:05,400 –> 00:23:05,420
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

841
00:23:05,512 –> 00:23:09,238
[david_blanchett]: where these products it because what worries
me is that someone looked at apia you

842
00:23:09,278 –> 00:23:12,346
[david_blanchett]: know a year ago and they hated
it and they don’t real how the market

843
00:23:12,406 –> 00:23:13,652
[david_blanchett]: has evolved radically

844
00:23:13,873 –> 00:23:14,713
[paul_tyler]: yeah

845
00:23:14,174 –> 00:23:14,636
[david_blanchett]: over that last

846
00:23:14,580 –> 00:23:14,600
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

847
00:23:14,696 –> 00:23:14,837
[david_blanchett]: year

848
00:23:14,983 –> 00:23:16,003
[paul_tyler]: yeah

849
00:23:16,579 –> 00:23:18,911
[michael_finke]: yeah if you’re thinking in terms

850
00:23:18,853 –> 00:23:19,513
[paul_tyler]: yeah

851
00:23:18,971 –> 00:23:23,078
[michael_finke]: of timing interest rates it’s not a
bad idea to look at where the yield

852
00:23:23,158 –> 00:23:26,704
[michael_finke]: curve is right now because the markets
telling you what the expectations

853
00:23:26,550 –> 00:23:26,712
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

854
00:23:26,844 –> 00:23:27,826
[michael_finke]: are for interest

855
00:23:27,703 –> 00:23:27,724
[bruno_caron]: m

856
00:23:27,866 –> 00:23:31,973
[michael_finke]: rates going forward and it is that
they will fall i mean it’s not a

857
00:23:32,053 –> 00:23:32,914
[michael_finke]: perfect predictor

858
00:23:32,910 –> 00:23:33,540
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

859
00:23:32,974 –> 00:23:34,336
[michael_finke]: of interest rates but

860
00:23:34,170 –> 00:23:34,352
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

861
00:23:34,817 –> 00:23:39,465
[michael_finke]: you know the ten year is significantly
lower than the one year or two year

862
00:23:40,467 –> 00:23:41,148
[michael_finke]: treasury so

863
00:23:41,799 –> 00:23:41,820
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

864
00:23:42,009 –> 00:23:44,513
[michael_finke]: it’s telling you that the market is

865
00:23:44,494 –> 00:23:45,184
[bruno_caron]: yeah

866
00:23:44,594 –> 00:23:46,116
[michael_finke]: expecting this to be a temporary

867
00:23:46,084 –> 00:23:46,326
[bruno_caron]: oh

868
00:23:46,256 –> 00:23:50,704
[michael_finke]: short phenomenon of high interest rates to
sort of flow down the rate of inflation

869
00:23:51,645 –> 00:23:56,233
[michael_finke]: and it’s a retire you can take
vantage fees i mean if i just looked

870
00:23:56,273 –> 00:24:01,021
[michael_finke]: at five year mica yesterday and they
were five point two percent from high quality

871
00:24:01,361 –> 00:24:01,802
[michael_finke]: insures

872
00:24:02,010 –> 00:24:02,532
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

873
00:24:02,303 –> 00:24:05,569
[michael_finke]: if you can lock in your five
year liability

874
00:24:05,400 –> 00:24:06,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

875
00:24:05,669 –> 00:24:10,455
[michael_finke]: is using a five point two per
cent rate retirement income is a lot less

876
00:24:10,555 –> 00:24:11,577
[michael_finke]: expensive than it was

877
00:24:11,610 –> 00:24:11,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

878
00:24:11,777 –> 00:24:12,358
[michael_finke]: a year ago

879
00:24:12,763 –> 00:24:12,784
[bruno_caron]: m

880
00:24:13,314 –> 00:24:13,820
[paul_tyler]: oh

881
00:24:13,399 –> 00:24:17,765
[michael_finke]: you know if it’s good enough if
if that will help you meet your liabilities

882
00:24:17,805 –> 00:24:17,925
[michael_finke]: you’re

883
00:24:17,820 –> 00:24:17,840
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

884
00:24:17,945 –> 00:24:22,541
[michael_finke]: expected liabilities and retirement at a much
lower cost it might be worth locking those

885
00:24:22,657 –> 00:24:22,738
[paul_tyler]: this

886
00:24:22,781 –> 00:24:22,902
[michael_finke]: in

887
00:24:22,839 –> 00:24:22,960
[paul_tyler]: coup

888
00:24:23,042 –> 00:24:23,362
[michael_finke]: today

889
00:24:23,233 –> 00:24:23,455
[paul_tyler]: yeah

890
00:24:23,523 –> 00:24:25,887
[michael_finke]: who knows none of us know where
interest rates are going to go

891
00:24:26,083 –> 00:24:27,283
[paul_tyler]: oh

892
00:24:26,467 –> 00:24:27,409
[michael_finke]: but this

893
00:24:27,283 –> 00:24:27,973
[paul_tyler]: yeah

894
00:24:27,469 –> 00:24:29,252
[michael_finke]: really is an asset liability

895
00:24:29,070 –> 00:24:29,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

896
00:24:29,312 –> 00:24:31,917
[michael_finke]: match exercise that’s what retirement and come
planning is all about

897
00:24:31,920 –> 00:24:31,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

898
00:24:32,297 –> 00:24:32,718
[michael_finke]: and right now

899
00:24:32,713 –> 00:24:33,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

900
00:24:32,778 –> 00:24:36,905
[michael_finke]: it takes we’re at to meet those
spending liabilities now the liabilities may have gone

901
00:24:36,965 –> 00:24:38,467
[michael_finke]: up also because of inflation but

902
00:24:38,469 –> 00:24:38,490
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

903
00:24:39,349 –> 00:24:39,569
[michael_finke]: you know

904
00:24:39,573 –> 00:24:39,759
[paul_tyler]: yes

905
00:24:39,910 –> 00:24:40,070
[michael_finke]: it’s

906
00:24:40,149 –> 00:24:40,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

907
00:24:40,591 –> 00:24:43,937
[michael_finke]: a lot of people have a mix
of inflation adjusted and nominal

908
00:24:43,590 –> 00:24:44,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

909
00:24:43,693 –> 00:24:43,934
[paul_tyler]: yeah

910
00:24:43,977 –> 00:24:47,282
[michael_finke]: liabilities for example texas my property taxes

911
00:24:47,379 –> 00:24:47,400
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:24:47,382 –> 00:24:48,765
[michael_finke]: after after i retire

913
00:24:49,243 –> 00:24:50,383
[paul_tyler]: yeah

914
00:24:49,245 –> 00:24:52,711
[michael_finke]: are going to be fixed so they’re
gonna be held constant that is a nominal

915
00:24:52,560 –> 00:24:52,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:24:52,771 –> 00:24:55,496
[michael_finke]: expense i can get rid of that’s
a nominal liability

917
00:24:55,333 –> 00:24:55,618
[paul_tyler]: oh

918
00:24:55,440 –> 00:24:56,190
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

919
00:24:55,576 –> 00:24:58,440
[michael_finke]: if we get rid of that with
a nominal invent man you know i can

920
00:24:58,480 –> 00:25:01,945
[michael_finke]: delay social security to deal with my
more inflation

921
00:25:01,959 –> 00:25:01,980
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

922
00:25:02,046 –> 00:25:07,054
[michael_finke]: adjusted types of expenses but you know
it is all asset liability matching in the

923
00:25:07,074 –> 00:25:07,815
[michael_finke]: markets giving you a

924
00:25:07,830 –> 00:25:08,790
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

925
00:25:07,855 –> 00:25:10,082
[michael_finke]: lot more these days than it did
in the recent as

926
00:25:12,325 –> 00:25:18,335
[bruno_caron]: well while while we’re on that topic
i know one of the critics to you

927
00:25:18,375 –> 00:25:25,346
[bruno_caron]: know to lifetime income protected lifetime income
is you know is the the inflation protection

928
00:25:26,128 –> 00:25:27,590
[bruno_caron]: um what do you say

929
00:25:27,853 –> 00:25:28,080
[paul_tyler]: yeah

930
00:25:27,890 –> 00:25:35,062
[bruno_caron]: to to those folks who you know
would go against any protected lifetime

931
00:25:34,740 –> 00:25:34,981
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

932
00:25:35,143 –> 00:25:35,463
[bruno_caron]: income

933
00:25:35,653 –> 00:25:36,403
[paul_tyler]: oh

934
00:25:36,148 –> 00:25:36,309
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

935
00:25:36,164 –> 00:25:39,330
[bruno_caron]: uh just based on that that inflation
factor

936
00:25:42,343 –> 00:25:46,490
[david_blanchett]: so i would say that i mean
again it’s different in every country run but

937
00:25:46,570 –> 00:25:46,870
[david_blanchett]: in you

938
00:25:46,804 –> 00:25:47,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

939
00:25:46,910 –> 00:25:50,376
[david_blanchett]: know the u s we have a
asocisecurty system that hat is explicitly linked to

940
00:25:50,436 –> 00:25:54,142
[david_blanchett]: inflation right so and i think that
you have set of

941
00:25:54,313 –> 00:25:54,599
[paul_tyler]: oh

942
00:25:54,964 –> 00:26:00,112
[david_blanchett]: real or inflation adjusted lifetime income to
michael’s point not all of someone’s liabilities have

943
00:26:00,152 –> 00:26:03,618
[david_blanchett]: to be matched to inflation so i
think that yes it isn’t it isn’t like

944
00:26:03,678 –> 00:26:07,324
[david_blanchett]: the best thing in the world but
you can’t buy the explicit inflation hedge with

945
00:26:07,485 –> 00:26:11,892
[david_blanchett]: other guaranteed income but there are there
are emerging set of products that exist today

946
00:26:12,353 –> 00:26:15,879
[david_blanchett]: that do provide at least an implicit
hedgewherethere’s a possibility of a benefit rise of

947
00:26:15,939 –> 00:26:16,720
[david_blanchett]: inflation is higher

948
00:26:16,804 –> 00:26:17,046
[bruno_caron]: oh

949
00:26:17,021 –> 00:26:20,964
[david_blanchett]: but i guess you know if every
if every american didn’t already have

950
00:26:21,030 –> 00:26:22,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

951
00:26:21,265 –> 00:26:22,926
[david_blanchett]: lifetime guaranteed income

952
00:26:22,804 –> 00:26:23,025
[bruno_caron]: oh

953
00:26:23,026 –> 00:26:23,407
[david_blanchett]: explicitly

954
00:26:23,123 –> 00:26:23,184
[paul_tyler]: he

955
00:26:23,427 –> 00:26:26,189
[david_blanchett]: linked to inflation i would be a
lot more worried about it but i think

956
00:26:26,369 –> 00:26:28,011
[david_blanchett]: people make that argument to view

957
00:26:28,929 –> 00:26:28,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:26:29,112 –> 00:26:34,792
[david_blanchett]: the liability the assets in their entirety
versus an isolation m

959
00:26:35,609 –> 00:26:35,869
[michael_finke]: we should

960
00:26:35,713 –> 00:26:36,373
[paul_tyler]: yeah

961
00:26:35,909 –> 00:26:36,089
[michael_finke]: also

962
00:26:36,043 –> 00:26:36,163
[ramsey_d_smith]: all

963
00:26:36,189 –> 00:26:36,449
[michael_finke]: mention

964
00:26:36,223 –> 00:26:36,423
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

965
00:26:36,529 –> 00:26:36,650
[michael_finke]: that

966
00:26:36,544 –> 00:26:36,644
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

967
00:26:36,690 –> 00:26:38,071
[michael_finke]: there is some product

968
00:26:38,006 –> 00:26:38,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead

969
00:26:38,191 –> 00:26:42,495
[michael_finke]: innovation in this space that for example
find g has come out with a fixed

970
00:26:42,575 –> 00:26:48,232
[michael_finke]: indexed annuity that does happen at five
percent inflation increase in the amount of guaranteed

971
00:26:48,292 –> 00:26:48,692
[michael_finke]: income that

972
00:26:48,690 –> 00:26:48,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

973
00:26:48,713 –> 00:26:50,876
[michael_finke]: you can receive so it’s really the
first fixed

974
00:26:50,734 –> 00:26:50,977
[bruno_caron]: oh

975
00:26:50,916 –> 00:26:56,425
[michael_finke]: into excenuity that i’ve seen with some
sort of an inflation linked income benefit guarantee

976
00:26:57,307 –> 00:27:00,104
[michael_finke]: be great to see a it more
innovation in that space i think

977
00:27:02,793 –> 00:27:02,933
[paul_tyler]: yeah

978
00:27:02,985 –> 00:27:03,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: well

979
00:27:03,133 –> 00:27:06,359
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive at this point michael
you know to come out with

980
00:27:06,549 –> 00:27:06,672
[michael_finke]: yeah

981
00:27:06,619 –> 00:27:10,486
[paul_tyler]: a product with value you want you
you want to sell when there’s not inflation

982
00:27:12,209 –> 00:27:12,329
[paul_tyler]: it’s

983
00:27:12,604 –> 00:27:13,624
[bruno_caron]: yeah

984
00:27:12,830 –> 00:27:16,699
[paul_tyler]: it’s very expensive one when we’re in
middle of it but your points well taken

985
00:27:16,980 –> 00:27:18,284
[paul_tyler]: so ramsey or does this

986
00:27:18,210 –> 00:27:19,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

987
00:27:18,364 –> 00:27:18,705
[paul_tyler]: leave us

988
00:27:19,881 –> 00:27:24,009
[ramsey_d_smith]: so look this as always this has
been a this has been a great discussion

989
00:27:24,070 –> 00:27:27,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think it would be great to
great to get a sense for you know

990
00:27:27,357 –> 00:27:32,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: where people can see you in the
near term webinar’s appearances

991
00:27:32,728 –> 00:27:32,749
[michael_finke]: m

992
00:27:33,718 –> 00:27:39,708
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you’ve been posting very prolifically on
linked in a lot of important stuff where

993
00:27:39,728 –> 00:27:42,337
[ramsey_d_smith]: should people look to you’re your latest
going forward

994
00:27:45,671 –> 00:27:45,977
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead dave

995
00:27:46,972 –> 00:27:49,036
[david_blanchett]: yeah so i mean i would say
that if you want to want to follow

996
00:27:49,076 –> 00:27:51,440
[david_blanchett]: me like the best place is linked
in i’m pretty active there

997
00:27:52,002 –> 00:27:52,022
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

998
00:27:52,822 –> 00:27:55,787
[david_blanchett]: but yeah so you know i usually
share hot thoughts i’m pretty honest

999
00:27:56,040 –> 00:27:56,342
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:27:56,248 –> 00:27:57,911
[david_blanchett]: always willing to engage in a good
conversation too

1001
00:27:58,414 –> 00:27:58,818
[bruno_caron]: oh

1002
00:27:58,492 –> 00:27:58,846
[david_blanchett]: yeah

1003
00:27:59,983 –> 00:28:00,608
[ramsey_d_smith]: right michael

1004
00:28:00,544 –> 00:28:00,766
[bruno_caron]: oh

1005
00:28:00,769 –> 00:28:05,016
[michael_finke]: i think you ramsey you can follow
me on twitter at bank on finance and

1006
00:28:05,877 –> 00:28:06,839
[michael_finke]: we have a podcast

1007
00:28:06,540 –> 00:28:07,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1008
00:28:06,959 –> 00:28:07,460
[michael_finke]: david and i

1009
00:28:07,870 –> 00:28:07,890
[bruno_caron]: m

1010
00:28:07,940 –> 00:28:08,101
[michael_finke]: and

1011
00:28:08,070 –> 00:28:09,180
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1012
00:28:09,503 –> 00:28:13,332
[michael_finke]: have a league to our podcast both
on lake and twitter you can give it

1013
00:28:13,372 –> 00:28:14,016
[michael_finke]: a lesson if you like

1014
00:28:14,944 –> 00:28:15,934
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1015
00:28:15,083 –> 00:28:15,403
[paul_tyler]: terrific

1016
00:28:15,420 –> 00:28:16,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1017
00:28:15,624 –> 00:28:16,245
[paul_tyler]: we’ll put the links

1018
00:28:16,470 –> 00:28:17,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1019
00:28:16,645 –> 00:28:19,550
[paul_tyler]: to all that in your in the
show notes if you’re

1020
00:28:19,599 –> 00:28:19,620
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1021
00:28:19,610 –> 00:28:23,857
[paul_tyler]: listening an ant to find david thank
you michael thanks for your time is great

1022
00:28:23,898 –> 00:28:28,686
[paul_tyler]: to have you on here we enjoy
following you your work and dialogue and stuff

1023
00:28:28,726 –> 00:28:32,973
[paul_tyler]: you support in the industry so thanks
for what you’re doing and bruno ramsey thanks

1024
00:28:33,053 –> 00:28:34,235
[paul_tyler]: for thanks

1025
00:28:34,182 –> 00:28:34,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: pleasure

1026
00:28:34,295 –> 00:28:36,238
[paul_tyler]: for hosting this and join

1027
00:28:36,154 –> 00:28:36,335
[bruno_caron]: thank

1028
00:28:36,258 –> 00:28:36,539
[paul_tyler]: us again

1029
00:28:36,396 –> 00:28:36,496
[bruno_caron]: you

1030
00:28:36,579 –> 00:28:40,577
[paul_tyler]: next join us again next week for
another episode of that annuity show

 

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 169: Should Interest Rate Changes Rewrite Retirement Product Recommendations with Dave Blanchett and Michael Finke
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Foldes Financial Announces Tax-Free Retirement

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Newsfile Corp.
October 27, 2022

Las Vegas, Nevada–(Newsfile Corp. – October 27, 2022) – Foldes Financial, a financial services company focused on providing tax-free retirement income, has announced the launch of reiterated Tax-Free Retirement Programs to serve business owners & the special needs community. The initiative led by the company’s Founder Peter Foldes Certified Financial Fiduciary® (CFF), takes its tax-free retirement solutions to the special needs community, with the goal to ensure families are adequately prepared for their retirement.

“Many families with children with special needs never realize the financial freedom they dreamed of. I saw firsthand the struggle parents have to support their child’s needs,” Peter Foldes said. “The special needs community has been a large part of my life, which is why we’re catering our programs ”

Peter Foldes leads the team at Foldes Financial to offer retirement planning, with tax-free growth solutions. Collaborating with a team of tax and law professionals to create systems for families with special needs. The goal of the program is to educate and change families’ futures for generations, working in the community and building partnerships with groups providing similar services.

“One of the reasons I love this work is because these structures can be options for businesses and individuals from all backgrounds. All families should know and understand their options but the reality is often they don’t. Helping the special needs community is at the core of our mission, providing help to those that need it most. If we can make even a small impact in our communities on a daily basis, special needs families across the country will hopefully start to close the gap of information and implementation.”

Foldes Financial has continued to expand its offerings across the nation, in line with the goal of Peter Foldes. Foldes Financial is hosting a free masterclass with world-renowned economist and PBS host Tom Hegna.

About Foldes Financial

Foldes Financial has continued to expand its offerings across the nation, in line with the goal of Peter Foldes. Foldes Financial is hosting a free masterclass with world-renowned economist and PBS host Tom Hegna. As shared with 80 million homes around the world, learn the 3 pillars of building and keeping wealth, sign up now https://bit.ly/tommakesmillionaires.

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/foldes-financial-announces-tax-free-142300018.html

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherFoldes Financial Announces Tax-Free Retirement
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Ten to Watch in 2023: Dr. Preston Cherry

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Dr. Preston Cherry is the founder of Concurrent Financial Planning, president of the Financial Therapy Association and head of financial planning at the Austin E. Chofrin School of Business and director of the Charles Schwab Center for Personal Financial Planning.

Ali Hibbs
November 1, 2022

As a child, Dr. Preston Cherry’s mother taught him about the value in thinking about financial wellness from a psychological perspective.

“The vulnerability, the compassion, how to deal with shame, how to deal with guilt and regret, being open, being honest with oneself, and all of that,” he said. “My mother introduced that into our home at very early ages.”

This has driven much of Cherry’s recent work, and he maintains that there are metrics for measuring the effects of different psychological approaches to finance.

Ten to Watch: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/people/ten-watch-2023

“We’re talking about stages of change,” he said. “What’s inspiring you? What is your willingness and your readiness to change? And there are stages that influence what type of decisions and changes you’re willing and able to make to accomplish your goals. And you can measure that by your levels of perception, your levels of worry and anxiety. Are they high or low? Your levels of satisfaction. Do you feel you’ve accomplished your goals?”

In an article published by Cherry while earning his doctorate, he said the first three steps to achieving financial wellness involved admitting one’s financial truths, acknowledging the feelings those truths create and then taking action to adjust them where needed in small and achievable ways.

He’s now one of the industry’s leading experts in the nascent field of “financial psychology,” a concept he was introduced to while getting his doctorate in personal financial planning from Texas Tech University.

And it’s one approach to financial planning that has quickly gained a following.

Cherry got his start in banking, but quickly got turned onto financial planning through a mentor at Prairie View A&M University, where he got his bachelor’s degree. He earned a master’s degree in financial planning in 2006, then later returned to Texas Tech to earn his doctorate.

These days, he lives in Green Bay, Wisc., heading up the financial planning department at the University of Wisconsin’s business school and serving as director of the new Charles Schwab Center for Personal Financial Planning on the same campus.

Cherry said his speaking engagements and work to promote awareness of financial psychology, as well as financial literacy, are what’s really driving him.

“The terminology and the empirical research and how it’s being delivered nowadays is so important,” said Cherry, who stressed that helping clients to face hard truths and be vulnerable in their own personal journeys is a big part of helping them to achieve a healthy balance between finances and lifestyle.

“You’re going from trying to understand how we process information and those types of things that behavioral finance was focused on in the beginning to really getting into well-being,” he explained. “We’re now talking about how it may not be an irrational versus rational matter, it may really be more about perspective, cultural experiences or your background and what shaped you.”

Read more: https://www.wealthmanagement.com/people/ten-watch-2023-dr-preston-cherry

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherTen to Watch in 2023: Dr. Preston Cherry
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Retire Inspired

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Join retirement expert Mary Beth Franklin and experts from Athene and The Index Standard for strategies that take the focus off current challenges and put it back on what clients want for their future.

Athene
October 31, 2022

Yes, you can help clients navigate a path toward the retirement they envision, even with the significant headwinds that have emerged. In this season of the Retirement Repair Shop podcast series, experts from Athene and The Index Standard speak with retirement income expert Mary Beth Franklin at smart ways to plan around inflation, strategies for handling the recent increase in market volatility, the threat of recession, and more!

Watch and listen here: https://www.investmentnews.com/retire-inspired-227577

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherRetire Inspired
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Episode 168: The Year Of In-Plan Annuities with Matt Wolniewicz

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Many people will experience shock when they open their 401(k) statements this year. Will the growing awareness of market risk open the doors for more in-plan annuity offerings in 2023? Today, we explore the challenges and opportunities of creating income protection inside 401(k) plans with Matt Wolniewicz, President at Income America.

Links mentioned:

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,350 –> 00:00:06,357
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show ramsey

2
00:00:06,417 –> 00:00:07,559
[paul_tyler]: good to see you here this morning

3
00:00:08,395 –> 00:00:09,098
[ramsey_d_smith]: ways glad to be here

4
00:00:09,610 –> 00:00:16,682
[paul_tyler]: uh boy this is you know we’re
end of october right and fourth quarter ramsey

5
00:00:16,405 –> 00:00:16,728
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

6
00:00:16,742 –> 00:00:20,328
[paul_tyler]: i will tell you on our company
side it is short stroke time to get

7
00:00:20,388 –> 00:00:25,817
[paul_tyler]: to the end of the year what
a crazy year it’s been i mean interest

8
00:00:25,897 –> 00:00:31,026
[paul_tyler]: rates going up like think i guess
you know how many times in history have

9
00:00:31,146 –> 00:00:37,316
[paul_tyler]: have bonds bonds on and the stock
market falling at the same time this is

10
00:00:37,716 –> 00:00:38,638
[paul_tyler]: an unusual time

11
00:00:40,265 –> 00:00:46,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes well it highlights uh it highlights
a lot of risks in retirement portfolios that

12
00:00:47,016 –> 00:00:49,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think were under appreciated

13
00:00:49,261 –> 00:00:49,485
[paul_tyler]: yes

14
00:00:50,341 –> 00:00:51,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: there was always this presumption that

15
00:00:52,320 –> 00:00:52,523
[paul_tyler]: oh

16
00:00:52,345 –> 00:00:55,771
[ramsey_d_smith]: that that stocks with the risky part
of your portfolio and bonds were

17
00:00:55,800 –> 00:00:55,881
[paul_tyler]: ah

18
00:00:55,831 –> 00:00:55,931
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

19
00:00:56,164 –> 00:00:56,224
[matt]: no

20
00:00:57,133 –> 00:01:01,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: low risk part and in fact you
know we’re suffering on both sides which actually

21
00:01:02,221 –> 00:01:09,233
[ramsey_d_smith]: makes a great segue in today’s guests
today we’re joined by matt wallnewitts who is

22
00:01:09,293 –> 00:01:16,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: the president of income america one of
the one of the leading leading institutions in

23
00:01:16,605 –> 00:01:21,874
[ramsey_d_smith]: the space of inplananuities and i will
confess that’s an area of particularly high interest

24
00:01:22,435 –> 00:01:27,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: for me and my own company so
really excited to hear what what matt has

25
00:01:27,183 –> 00:01:32,689
[ramsey_d_smith]: to say today think a very very
important development in uh in the retirement industry

26
00:01:32,809 –> 00:01:36,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: so with that matt tell us tell
us a bit more about yourself and about

27
00:01:36,833 –> 00:01:38,174
[ramsey_d_smith]: income america in particular

28
00:01:39,033 –> 00:01:42,579
[matt]: i’d be glad thanks for thanks for
having me today paul and ramsey it’s it’s

29
00:01:42,659 –> 00:01:43,741
[matt]: always good to get a chance to

30
00:01:43,705 –> 00:01:43,969
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

31
00:01:43,801 –> 00:01:49,150
[matt]: talk with you to you know just
real quick background on me i have been

32
00:01:49,170 –> 00:01:53,257
[matt]: the president in merica for the past
two years prior to that i was the

33
00:01:53,317 –> 00:01:58,145
[matt]: president at f i through sixty the
firm that was really leaving the charge on

34
00:01:58,185 –> 00:02:04,074
[matt]: the tradiciary standard and then prior to
that i had been at morning star for

35
00:02:04,415 –> 00:02:09,010
[matt]: for quite a long period and so
it’s been an interesting journey and evolution for

36
00:02:09,050 –> 00:02:14,450
[matt]: me i certainly always have the end
investor at heart and you know i’ve got

37
00:02:14,510 –> 00:02:17,395
[matt]: a particularly personal story about my dad
who

38
00:02:17,365 –> 00:02:17,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

39
00:02:17,495 –> 00:02:19,919
[matt]: actually went into retirement in the second

40
00:02:19,723 –> 00:02:19,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

41
00:02:19,959 –> 00:02:25,309
[matt]: quarter of two thousand and eight the
last great bull market and so i’d be

42
00:02:25,349 –> 00:02:29,597
[matt]: glad to share some of that but
i’ve been really excited about income america you

43
00:02:29,637 –> 00:02:33,918
[matt]: know i think two years ago when
we launched we were really on the cutting

44
00:02:34,099 –> 00:02:42,420
[matt]: edge of bringing in plan or when
k retirement income solutions to the market and

45
00:02:42,921 –> 00:02:48,650
[matt]: it’s been really interesting for how the
how the conversations have changed over the past

46
00:02:48,730 –> 00:02:53,038
[matt]: two years because two years ago there
was a question about whether there was really

47
00:02:53,178 –> 00:02:55,462
[matt]: even a need for ramsey um you

48
00:02:55,469 –> 00:02:56,035
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

49
00:02:55,502 –> 00:02:59,168
[matt]: know and i think some of that
was just legacy where there had been solutions

50
00:02:59,208 –> 00:03:00,190
[matt]: that had been introduced

51
00:03:00,090 –> 00:03:00,392
[paul_tyler]: yeah

52
00:03:00,730 –> 00:03:01,692
[matt]: ten or twelve years ago

53
00:03:01,920 –> 00:03:02,180
[paul_tyler]: yeah

54
00:03:02,033 –> 00:03:05,418
[matt]: to be honest they just hadn’t had
a lot of take up on the participant

55
00:03:05,478 –> 00:03:07,762
[matt]: side so it’s been really interesting to
see how

56
00:03:07,749 –> 00:03:07,869
[paul_tyler]: yeah

57
00:03:07,782 –> 00:03:11,749
[matt]: the conversation has changed you know certainly
like paul talking about the change in the

58
00:03:11,789 –> 00:03:16,780
[matt]: markets you know that that’s really had
a big impact and for me yesterday i

59
00:03:16,841 –> 00:03:20,330
[matt]: was in philadelphia and i was happy
to spend some time with a friend who’s

60
00:03:20,431 –> 00:03:25,999
[matt]: a really good institutional consult and we
were talking about how the markets have held

61
00:03:26,080 –> 00:03:27,682
[matt]: up to their traditional correlations

62
00:03:28,260 –> 00:03:29,610
[paul_tyler]: oh

63
00:03:28,373 –> 00:03:28,433
[matt]: he

64
00:03:28,384 –> 00:03:28,405
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

65
00:03:28,553 –> 00:03:32,645
[matt]: said that they’ve actually had more interest
in the alternative space and i said well

66
00:03:32,705 –> 00:03:35,737
[matt]: even the altar getting killed and he
said yeah but there’s some areas that have

67
00:03:35,777 –> 00:03:36,601
[matt]: added some values

68
00:03:36,967 –> 00:03:37,088
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

69
00:03:37,183 –> 00:03:39,730
[matt]: he mentioned a word that i hadn’t
heard in a long time and that was

70
00:03:39,770 –> 00:03:40,903
[matt]: hedge funds so

71
00:03:41,537 –> 00:03:41,577
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

72
00:03:41,724 –> 00:03:42,565
[matt]: it really is it

73
00:03:42,565 –> 00:03:42,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

74
00:03:42,625 –> 00:03:46,951
[matt]: really is hard times right now especially
again for an investor who’s worked their whole

75
00:03:47,011 –> 00:03:51,336
[matt]: life and really made the sacrifices to
make sure that they can have a comfortable

76
00:03:51,396 –> 00:03:56,402
[matt]: retirement these challenges just couldn’t be they
couldn’t be any tougher to navigate right now

77
00:03:58,096 –> 00:04:00,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: so wow so much to unpack there

78
00:04:00,963 –> 00:04:01,164
[matt]: yeah

79
00:04:01,381 –> 00:04:05,668
[ramsey_d_smith]: a quick comment in the last piece
sort of the alt piece so again big

80
00:04:05,748 –> 00:04:11,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: believer in the role of altsandin retirement
portfolios over time i think that that at

81
00:04:11,438 –> 00:04:16,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: the same time though als ultimately are
correlated with public markets over the long hall

82
00:04:16,246 –> 00:04:20,533
[ramsey_d_smith]: right if credit spreads are widening then
credit spreads and private private credit should widen

83
00:04:20,833 –> 00:04:24,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: and and the like and if there
are there the stock market is doing well

84
00:04:24,680 –> 00:04:29,708
[ramsey_d_smith]: and that means fewer exit strategies for
for for equity and private equity investment so

85
00:04:30,229 –> 00:04:34,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not sooner or later that you
know there is there’s going to be a

86
00:04:34,136 –> 00:04:38,563
[ramsey_d_smith]: correlation there but i wanted to want
to back up and go back to the

87
00:04:38,623 –> 00:04:40,226
[ramsey_d_smith]: personal story you cited

88
00:04:40,253 –> 00:04:40,396
[matt]: yeah

89
00:04:40,486 –> 00:04:43,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: and like it’s really like if you
think about it like all of us there’s

90
00:04:43,611 –> 00:04:50,200
[ramsey_d_smith]: some usually some personal catalog that you
know ultimately translates into right shaping an entire

91
00:04:50,280 –> 00:04:53,304
[ramsey_d_smith]: career and it sounds like you have
one of these please share more about that

92
00:04:54,133 –> 00:04:57,659
[matt]: i do you know my dad was
somebody who who really worked hard his whole

93
00:04:57,699 –> 00:05:02,166
[matt]: life i mean you know always made
always made sure that me and my three

94
00:05:02,206 –> 00:05:06,354
[matt]: younger sisters had enough but he worked
hard and he never really had the benefit

95
00:05:06,394 –> 00:05:11,044
[matt]: of a pension so him and my
mom you know were really diligent savers and

96
00:05:11,185 –> 00:05:12,548
[matt]: i’ll never forget as he

97
00:05:12,550 –> 00:05:12,633
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

98
00:05:12,668 –> 00:05:17,052
[matt]: began to think about retiring asked me
to go and sit with his financial advisor

99
00:05:17,132 –> 00:05:21,555
[matt]: and we went into the financial advisor
just asked a really simple question i said

100
00:05:21,595 –> 00:05:27,762
[matt]: hey jim what is your philosophy about
asset allocation as my dad goes into retirement

101
00:05:28,443 –> 00:05:31,277
[matt]: and i’ll never forget this for the
rest of my life i asked him that

102
00:05:31,358 –> 00:05:36,330
[matt]: question literally sweat started popping up on
his forehead he looked at me and he

103
00:05:36,370 –> 00:05:39,350
[matt]: said i’ll be right back he got
up and left the room and my dad

104
00:05:39,471 –> 00:05:43,295
[matt]: stuck his hand on my lap and
he said mack i settled down he said

105
00:05:43,315 –> 00:05:44,377
[matt]: you know this is jim we’ve been

106
00:05:44,400 –> 00:05:44,640
[paul_tyler]: yeah

107
00:05:44,457 –> 00:05:47,161
[matt]: friends for a long time and i
said i asked him a lay up question

108
00:05:46,849 –> 00:05:46,989
[paul_tyler]: yeah

109
00:05:47,262 –> 00:05:47,802
[matt]: right and he

110
00:05:47,850 –> 00:05:48,588
[paul_tyler]: yeah

111
00:05:47,863 –> 00:05:52,029
[matt]: came back and he ultimately stuck on
the desk a book that was about two

112
00:05:52,110 –> 00:05:56,206
[matt]: hundred pages long and it was his
firm view and asked application and i said

113
00:05:56,267 –> 00:06:01,175
[matt]: no jim tell me about ascidalication for
my dad so as we were leaving i

114
00:06:01,256 –> 00:06:04,084
[matt]: said to my dad i said hey
dad listen we’ve got to find a new

115
00:06:04,125 –> 00:06:07,836
[matt]: financial adviser and he said oh man
but he’s grady takes me out to play

116
00:06:07,896 –> 00:06:09,641
[matt]: golf and gives me golf balls and
i said

117
00:06:09,570 –> 00:06:09,751
[paul_tyler]: oh

118
00:06:10,353 –> 00:06:13,973
[matt]: exactly that and so you know when
my

119
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: father did finally make the decision to
retire was a second quarter of two thousand

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[matt]: and eight we were in one of
the biggest bull markets in history and he

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[matt]: couldn’t have been any more excited

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: you know

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: when he i retire and as that
year began to progress as we all remember

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[matt]: through the summer it started to get
a little bit worse and then once the

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[matt]: fall hit it really started to fall
he would literally call me at the end

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[matt]: of the close of market every single
day

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: which is two o’clock in chicago screaming
at me telling me that he was getting

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[matt]: me out of the market and you
know a short story is luckily i convinced

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[matt]: him the park enough money on the
side for a year so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: that they had cash to meet their
minimum obligations but the worst

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: they ever i think it was

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: march ninth of two thousand and nine
um you know that was i believe that

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[matt]: that was the very bottom the market
cycle two o’clock in one second with the

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[matt]: headline news that financial news blaring in
the background i get a call from my

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[matt]: dad saying i’m selling everything i said

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: dad don’t

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: you

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: you will you will never be able
to make up from that and luckily i

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[matt]: was able to state to keep him
convinced stay fully invested and i can only

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[matt]: imagine what would have happened had they
sold out when the market was down fifty

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[matt]: six percent we all know the you
know the catastrophe that’s associated with that so

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[matt]: for me ramsey i have always been
cast on the end investor having my dad

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[matt]: go through a situation like that had
he not had some guidance i am really

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[matt]: convinced that he would have sold out
at the very bottom

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[paul_tyler]: well is

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: interesting you know there’s a lot there
matt so one first you are every vyse’s

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[paul_tyler]: worst nightmare you were the kid

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[matt]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: who disrupted the relationship but for a
good reason i think the other part is

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[paul_tyler]: what what is the role of should
an advisor really be should it be somebody

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[paul_tyler]: who’s picking stocks or should it be
somebody who is helping manage behavior and it

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[paul_tyler]: sounds like that’s what you did with
your dad

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[matt]: you know that’s a great question paul
because

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: you know if we if we just
look at things statistically and analytically

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: most of the active managers can’t beat
the bench back if they can beat their

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[matt]: bench mark in a single year they
certainly can’t do it over a five or

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[matt]: ten year period so it’s interesting when
i look at my career and the way

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[matt]: that the financial advice side of the
business is really more you see more and

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[matt]: more advisors either using models or some
type tamp solution and i really do think

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[matt]: and ramsey we were talking earlier about
my buddy david bland chat you know he

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[matt]: talks a lot about the advisor alpha
that they added really is on the behavioral

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[matt]: finance side i mean even if we
just on a really recent basis even if

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[matt]: we look at the down turn that
happened at the beginning of covid the first

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[matt]: quarter of two thousand one even in
the target date market and you can say

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[matt]: whatever everybody has their own opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[matt]: on that too paul but even in
the target date market the number of people

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[matt]: that sold out in march of twenty
twenty it was pretty scary and so this

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[matt]: idea that a financial advisor is um
you know i like what joe durant calls

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[matt]: it like a life coach right somebody
who can really help on a behavior in

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[matt]: an side there’s no doubt that that
that investors especially those that are close to

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[matt]: retirement they

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: really do need that help and guidance

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so in the hierarchy like the behavioal
piece is probably the most important one so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: agree with you there the investment advice
is of some value but it is actually

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[ramsey_d_smith]: something that’s readily vailable and commoditized if
done right using

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[matt]: great

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[ramsey_d_smith]: industries and the last pieces you know
playing golf and getting free fall which which

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[ramsey_d_smith]: it seems like your dad’s advisor was

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[matt]: a

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[ramsey_d_smith]: over index to that and probably

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[matt]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: earning hundred basis

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: points a year for that and that’s
you

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[matt]: more

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[ramsey_d_smith]: know

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: or more or more god forbid right
and that is that is that is precisely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the problem there so all right so

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[matt]: hey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: here

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[matt]: ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: one other thing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: i just have to mention to because
when i just think about you know my

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[matt]: dad’s journey you know the other thing
that you have to remember it was just

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[matt]: him and i that met

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: with the financial adviser and my father
ultimately passed away before my mother and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: i can tell you that my mother
had no

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[matt]: relationship at all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[matt]: with that advisor

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[matt]: and again as i just think about
you know couples i don’t know what the

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[matt]: stats are exactly but i think that
a high number widows end up changing advisors

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[matt]: and practices simply because they don’t have
any relationship with the advisor and that’s that’s

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[matt]: too bad for everybody but i think
that it really is an unfortunate fact that

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[matt]: happens a lot

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[paul_tyler]: well ramsey’s going to go ramsey’s got
some good topics here to go into but

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[paul_tyler]: just to stick on this because i
think the topic were we’re discussing is so

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[paul_tyler]: relevant for advisors you know right now
at you talk the other aspect

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you just mentioned was

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: frequency so the markets going down you’re
having daily conversations with you your dad i

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[paul_tyler]: got this question ramsey from a journalist

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[paul_tyler]: yesterday how frequently should people m revise
or take a look at their retirement plan

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[paul_tyler]: and i was kind of stuck man
on that one which was well probably you

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[paul_tyler]: know at least once a year but
you know was that check in really what

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[paul_tyler]: you just described was that almost like
a daily re affirmation that the plan is

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[paul_tyler]: still working it sounds like you made
some changes reposition cash you know for your

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[paul_tyler]: dad you know if we fast forward
to this environment how frequently should pe be

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[paul_tyler]: looking at their at their retirement plans
you know if you were answering that question

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[matt]: yeah that’s that’s a great question because
when my family calls me with questions i

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: tell them just to throw away their
statements

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[matt]: honestly

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[matt]: because you know listen it’s not like
you’re looking to retire today you’ve got at

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[matt]: least ten years and so the chances
of the market having a full recovery that

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[matt]: time are pretty great but you know
paul it is interesting because you know my

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[matt]: advisor personally will contact me at least
one supporter to meet with me and she’s

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[matt]: very very good about sending out kind
of updates when there’s big swings in the

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[matt]: market even though it’s via email i
don’t mind consuming content that way

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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[matt]: in fact i’m a lot more likely
to read that that i am to take

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[matt]: a phone call so i don’t think
it’s i don’t think it’s certainly not an

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[matt]: every week thing but in these turbulent
markets i don’t think that there’s any problem

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[matt]: touched in base with a client once
a month just to see how they’re doing

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[matt]: and to make sure again i think
you hit on the real thing to make

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[matt]: sure that they’re still committed to their
plan and nothing has changed in their life

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[matt]: that may be too much especially from
a retirement plan but i would certainly think

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[matt]: on the private wealth side you know
that would be pretty appropriate

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[paul_tyler]: m s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: m done

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[ramsey_d_smith]: all right well that’s a look that’s
that’s an important conversation

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[paul_tyler]: eh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so all right so here we are
in here we are in two thousand twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: two and well we haven’t had sort
of a sudden severity that we saw in

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in two thousand eight or we have
different reasons i should say for now for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: the market suffering we’re still in the
situation where you know again stocks are down

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot bonds are also down so
all much of the same pain that somebody

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[ramsey_d_smith]: retiring in two thousand eight would have
had people that are retiring in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: twenty two are having

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[matt]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: right now and so you know what
are some

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[matt]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: of the lessons we can learn from
that and how you know how how does

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00:14:06,189 –> 00:14:10,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: inplantanuity that does the inplantanuity opportunity play
into that sort of i would say going

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[ramsey_d_smith]: forward so you know if people had

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[matt]: oh

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00:14:13,261 –> 00:14:14,904
[ramsey_d_smith]: bought into inplantanuities twenty years

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00:14:14,801 –> 00:14:14,943
[matt]: yeah

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00:14:14,944 –> 00:14:16,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: ago would they be now versus

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00:14:16,233 –> 00:14:16,474
[matt]: yeah

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00:14:16,754 –> 00:14:17,398
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know where they are

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[matt]: it’s a really fair question mamsey

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00:14:20,275 –> 00:14:20,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:14:20,424 –> 00:14:23,889
[matt]: i mean i think you know and
again conversation i was having yesterday with the

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[matt]: institutional consultant is how the sixty forty
portfolio and these market conditions it hasn’t held

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[matt]: up and i haven’t taken a look
at

296
00:14:31,765 –> 00:14:31,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

297
00:14:31,770 –> 00:14:34,835
[matt]: the numbers to see how that worked
back in two thousand and eight

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00:14:35,254 –> 00:14:35,275
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:14:35,596 –> 00:14:43,085
[matt]: but you know certainly with a retirement
account again on the behavioral finance side knowing

300
00:14:43,146 –> 00:14:50,048
[matt]: that a participant has enough income to
at least make their basic needs irrespective of

301
00:14:50,108 –> 00:14:56,629
[matt]: market performance on the behavior finance side
that’s just something that it’s really important and

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00:14:56,690 –> 00:15:01,924
[matt]: it’s interesting because not only is it
important to that end participant you know right

303
00:15:02,004 –> 00:15:07,092
[matt]: now in this war for talent amongst
companies it’s crazy how the market is performed

304
00:15:07,112 –> 00:15:10,057
[matt]: and you have the job market has
really head up and held up

305
00:15:10,076 –> 00:15:10,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

306
00:15:10,137 –> 00:15:11,339
[matt]: and so you know the

307
00:15:11,381 –> 00:15:11,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

308
00:15:11,420 –> 00:15:17,309
[matt]: idea of the great resignation or the
quitting all these professionals are looking for benefits

309
00:15:17,410 –> 00:15:18,091
[matt]: that are unique

310
00:15:18,420 –> 00:15:19,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

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00:15:19,273 –> 00:15:25,443
[matt]: to hold and retain employees and so
certainly the you know the benefits like the

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00:15:25,503 –> 00:15:31,433
[matt]: four one plan those are definitely benefits
that need to be competitive and having some

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00:15:31,473 –> 00:15:37,099
[matt]: retirement income in there certainly is different
than some of the other some of the

314
00:15:37,159 –> 00:15:43,688
[matt]: other areas and it may be more
important now for those that are um you

315
00:15:43,728 –> 00:15:45,110
[matt]: know near retirement but also

316
00:15:45,625 –> 00:15:45,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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00:15:45,832 –> 00:15:49,539
[matt]: any of the young people that are
going to live through this market cycle i

318
00:15:49,659 –> 00:15:54,027
[matt]: have to believe that yes they like
bit coin and all these other things but

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[matt]: i have

320
00:15:54,295 –> 00:15:54,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:15:54,348 –> 00:15:57,876
[matt]: to believe that at least in the
short term they’re going to be pretty adverse

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[matt]: to to take in on these risky
bets

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00:16:02,316 –> 00:16:06,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: so part of what were you know
what we’re sort of dealing with here is

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00:16:06,563 –> 00:16:10,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of a a culture a culture
that’s focused on stocks and bonds target date

325
00:16:11,031 –> 00:16:17,559
[ramsey_d_smith]: funds et cetera and so ah coming
from that to to a market that is

326
00:16:17,839 –> 00:16:23,709
[ramsey_d_smith]: where there is a greater penetration presence
of inplanetannuities what do you think it takes

327
00:16:23,769 –> 00:16:26,634
[ramsey_d_smith]: to get there like who are the
people that need to be brought over the

328
00:16:26,674 –> 00:16:29,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: line who are the stake holders like
so there’s plan sponsors their

329
00:16:30,113 –> 00:16:30,873
[matt]: yeah

330
00:16:30,407 –> 00:16:31,251
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan participants

331
00:16:31,593 –> 00:16:32,343
[matt]: oh

332
00:16:32,305 –> 00:16:35,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: what do we need to do bring
them over the line and and and are

333
00:16:35,116 –> 00:16:36,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: we seeing movement there in your view

334
00:16:37,733 –> 00:16:39,178
[matt]: so so to answer your question about

335
00:16:39,130 –> 00:16:39,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

336
00:16:39,258 –> 00:16:45,175
[matt]: movement yes and i would say that
it’s accelerated greatly in the past six months

337
00:16:45,356 –> 00:16:45,556
[matt]: look

338
00:16:45,427 –> 00:16:45,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

339
00:16:46,238 –> 00:16:46,679
[matt]: the market

340
00:16:46,675 –> 00:16:47,039
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:16:46,759 –> 00:16:52,063
[matt]: certainly helps annuities right i mean all
the stas that i’ve seen say that now

342
00:16:52,263 –> 00:16:58,133
[matt]: all the all the annuities are you
know setting records for for quarterly sales so

343
00:16:58,193 –> 00:17:02,340
[matt]: we know that market volatility definitely drives
interest in that but you know on the

344
00:17:02,420 –> 00:17:05,994
[matt]: in plan side i think that we
really have to look back to the scare

345
00:17:06,074 –> 00:17:11,102
[matt]: act when that passed unfortunately that happened
just before the covid crisis came through and

346
00:17:11,202 –> 00:17:15,333
[matt]: so one of the challenges for the
plan sponsors in the past had been now

347
00:17:15,535 –> 00:17:18,370
[matt]: if something happens with the insurance company
and they fail

348
00:17:18,655 –> 00:17:19,023
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

349
00:17:18,953 –> 00:17:20,657
[matt]: who is on the hook for the
obligation

350
00:17:21,055 –> 00:17:21,301
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

351
00:17:21,179 –> 00:17:27,193
[matt]: for all of these participant benefits that
the participants have been paying for everybody can

352
00:17:27,274 –> 00:17:31,018
[matt]: tell me you know insurance companies never
fail and again all we have to do

353
00:17:31,078 –> 00:17:34,824
[matt]: is look back to two thousand and
think about a i g and without a

354
00:17:34,884 –> 00:17:37,669
[matt]: government bail out there would have been
a lot of trouble and pain there so

355
00:17:38,190 –> 00:17:42,056
[matt]: the kerak provided a safe harbor for
the plan sponsor so that as long as

356
00:17:42,097 –> 00:17:44,882
[matt]: they went through due diligence process

357
00:17:45,145 –> 00:17:46,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

358
00:17:46,013 –> 00:17:47,134
[matt]: they could have a safe harbor

359
00:17:47,095 –> 00:17:47,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

360
00:17:47,214 –> 00:17:51,820
[matt]: there and so you know that was
certainly one thing ramsey but again i think

361
00:17:51,860 –> 00:17:57,838
[matt]: that in a raging bull market it’s
hard to have that conversation with participant about

362
00:17:57,858 –> 00:18:00,843
[matt]: the benefit of a guaranteed income because
they think the market is going to go

363
00:18:00,943 –> 00:18:08,924
[matt]: up like that forever so some market
volatility has definitely brought it back or the

364
00:18:08,984 –> 00:18:14,985
[matt]: participants but the other thing is the
retirement plan adviser and the consultants that community

365
00:18:15,225 –> 00:18:20,233
[matt]: definitely has more interest in the in
plan solutions really for two reasons

366
00:18:20,758 –> 00:18:21,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

367
00:18:20,895 –> 00:18:27,433
[matt]: one if the participant rolls out of
the plan than those professions s have um

368
00:18:27,874 –> 00:18:31,420
[matt]: you know little impact there isn’t much
that they can do to make a difference

369
00:18:31,480 –> 00:18:32,441
[matt]: for those participants

370
00:18:32,725 –> 00:18:32,745
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

371
00:18:32,922 –> 00:18:37,550
[matt]: and so it’s interesting that sponsors now
in the past i would say they might

372
00:18:37,610 –> 00:18:42,387
[matt]: be indifferent to maybe hope in a
participant left the plan i feel like now

373
00:18:42,528 –> 00:18:46,816
[matt]: that’s changed and you know typically the
people that are leaving the plan have the

374
00:18:46,836 –> 00:18:48,058
[matt]: higher balances and so

375
00:18:48,123 –> 00:18:48,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

376
00:18:48,138 –> 00:18:49,802
[matt]: it’s to the plan sponsors benefit

377
00:18:50,146 –> 00:18:50,328
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

378
00:18:50,453 –> 00:18:55,555
[matt]: those higher balances stay in plan because
then they get some leverage over the providers

379
00:18:56,096 –> 00:19:01,224
[matt]: so it’s been real interesting that the
institutional community has begun to warm up to

380
00:19:01,304 –> 00:19:02,366
[matt]: and embrace this idea

381
00:19:02,575 –> 00:19:03,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

382
00:19:02,827 –> 00:19:07,194
[matt]: the other thing is those consultants are
always looking for a reason to have a

383
00:19:07,234 –> 00:19:08,877
[matt]: conversation with a new prospect

384
00:19:09,425 –> 00:19:09,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

385
00:19:09,919 –> 00:19:15,609
[matt]: on the plan sponsor side and so
the guaranteed income in plan is definitely something

386
00:19:15,649 –> 00:19:17,933
[matt]: that they can take out the prospects
and

387
00:19:17,959 –> 00:19:18,445
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

388
00:19:17,973 –> 00:19:22,317
[matt]: if the existing consulting her advisors and
talking to him about it it’s a great

389
00:19:22,417 –> 00:19:28,022
[matt]: way to gain some leverage and some
trust and some credibility from the plan sponsor

390
00:19:29,296 –> 00:19:32,882
[ramsey_d_smith]: so you you you introduced a third
sort of stake holder that i

391
00:19:33,074 –> 00:19:33,135
[matt]: ah

392
00:19:33,142 –> 00:19:33,643
[ramsey_d_smith]: that i missed

393
00:19:33,570 –> 00:19:33,810
[paul_tyler]: yeah

394
00:19:33,683 –> 00:19:36,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: which was the retirement plan advisor right
so you’ve got the plan

395
00:19:36,293 –> 00:19:37,113
[matt]: yeah

396
00:19:36,528 –> 00:19:42,558
[ramsey_d_smith]: sponsors you got the plan participants but
retire plan advisor is particularly in the small

397
00:19:43,179 –> 00:19:50,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: medium business segment are super super important
and so i know you know you are

398
00:19:50,451 –> 00:19:56,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: out in the road at conferences talking
you talking to this this segment very very

399
00:19:56,366 –> 00:20:03,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: very frequently is it you seeing traction
are you seeing movement do they under how

400
00:20:03,641 –> 00:20:07,808
[ramsey_d_smith]: much is it do they understand the
value proposition how much do yu have to

401
00:20:07,868 –> 00:20:10,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: explain it like i guess i’m trying
to get sense for how receptive are they

402
00:20:11,053 –> 00:20:15,462
[ramsey_d_smith]: maybe they’re getting there they’re being nudged
or are they receptive so far

403
00:20:16,564 –> 00:20:18,450
[matt]: it’s it’s really changed a lot i
would

404
00:20:18,385 –> 00:20:19,105
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

405
00:20:18,510 –> 00:20:21,439
[matt]: say over the course of this year
i was telling paul early i’ve done over

406
00:20:21,540 –> 00:20:23,395
[matt]: forty speaking events

407
00:20:23,275 –> 00:20:23,295
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

408
00:20:23,435 –> 00:20:28,109
[matt]: this year so i dedicated myself to
just being out on the road and providing

409
00:20:28,169 –> 00:20:28,731
[matt]: education

410
00:20:28,385 –> 00:20:28,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

411
00:20:29,293 –> 00:20:30,114
[matt]: and i would say that

412
00:20:30,445 –> 00:20:30,752
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:20:31,276 –> 00:20:36,164
[matt]: that again through the year and again
i mean there’s definitely correlation to the market

414
00:20:36,264 –> 00:20:36,465
[matt]: right

415
00:20:36,887 –> 00:20:37,048
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

416
00:20:36,925 –> 00:20:43,805
[matt]: and so there has been more and
more interest but i still when i talked

417
00:20:43,845 –> 00:20:47,092
[matt]: to my friends that are advisors and
i mentioned in plan

418
00:20:47,245 –> 00:20:47,995
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

419
00:20:47,533 –> 00:20:49,938
[matt]: or i mentioned guaranteed income right the
first thing that

420
00:20:49,975 –> 00:20:51,055
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

421
00:20:49,978 –> 00:20:51,521
[matt]: they say is oh that’s an annuity

422
00:20:51,917 –> 00:20:51,957
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

423
00:20:52,283 –> 00:20:53,008
[matt]: i’m like yes

424
00:20:53,095 –> 00:20:53,875
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

425
00:20:54,093 –> 00:20:57,379
[matt]: that’s the only way that you’re going
to get any guaranteed income right is with

426
00:20:57,248 –> 00:20:57,775
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

427
00:20:57,459 –> 00:21:01,906
[matt]: an annuity and they say oh you
know those those don’t work no good they’re

428
00:21:01,946 –> 00:21:05,733
[matt]: too expensive and so i just feel
ramsey that you know again in the educate

429
00:21:05,853 –> 00:21:09,344
[matt]: and there’s one thing in talking about
it a plan

430
00:21:09,629 –> 00:21:09,772
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

431
00:21:09,825 –> 00:21:14,474
[matt]: there’s another idea of just talking about
the benefits of it because everybody’s got a

432
00:21:14,514 –> 00:21:19,983
[matt]: bad experience with a retail annuity either
personally or with a client and so talking

433
00:21:20,043 –> 00:21:23,549
[matt]: them through the nuances and the difference
and really the benefits

434
00:21:23,160 –> 00:21:23,790
[paul_tyler]: yeah

435
00:21:23,629 –> 00:21:28,661
[matt]: of an institutional offering it’s pretty interesting
where that conversation ends up at the end

436
00:21:29,140 –> 00:21:29,221
[paul_tyler]: so

437
00:21:29,185 –> 00:21:30,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

438
00:21:29,361 –> 00:21:33,107
[paul_tyler]: for ams and i we’re gon t
trade mark this thing before it goes out

439
00:21:33,888 –> 00:21:37,815
[paul_tyler]: if we were to form the national
association of in plan annuities

440
00:21:37,735 –> 00:21:37,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

441
00:21:38,997 –> 00:21:41,521
[paul_tyler]: and start a lobby uh

442
00:21:41,365 –> 00:21:41,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

443
00:21:41,741 –> 00:21:42,643
[paul_tyler]: different individuals

444
00:21:42,805 –> 00:21:43,050
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

445
00:21:43,665 –> 00:21:48,713
[paul_tyler]: would you tell us to focus first
on trying to almost get annuities in plan

446
00:21:48,773 –> 00:21:49,895
[paul_tyler]: annuities set as a default

447
00:21:50,043 –> 00:21:50,369
[matt]: oh

448
00:21:50,055 –> 00:21:54,225
[paul_tyler]: option like ex percent of your plan
for employes should default into that would that

449
00:21:54,286 –> 00:21:56,152
[paul_tyler]: be our number one objective to really

450
00:21:56,725 –> 00:21:56,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

451
00:21:56,875 –> 00:21:59,413
[paul_tyler]: you now drive activity in the marketplace

452
00:22:01,513 –> 00:22:03,695
[matt]: i think it’s a great question i
think there’s

453
00:22:03,745 –> 00:22:03,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

454
00:22:03,855 –> 00:22:07,439
[matt]: one a and one b i think
that one a is the idea that in

455
00:22:07,539 –> 00:22:13,812
[matt]: plan annuities can be a q d
a and then one b would be at

456
00:22:13,972 –> 00:22:19,554
[matt]: what age is it appropriate to put
somebody in as a q d is it

457
00:22:19,634 –> 00:22:24,475
[matt]: really appropriate for twenty two year old
should it be for a fifty five year

458
00:22:24,515 –> 00:22:29,399
[matt]: old um or is it somewhere in
between i think that those are i think

459
00:22:29,439 –> 00:22:34,938
[matt]: that those are two of the really
key topics um and again especially in the

460
00:22:34,958 –> 00:22:39,750
[matt]: institutional consultant community there’s a lot of
questions there over those two topics

461
00:22:40,385 –> 00:22:44,191
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’m glad you answered that question
mat because you did it was way more

462
00:22:44,291 –> 00:22:47,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: nuance than what my answer was going
to be which

463
00:22:47,423 –> 00:22:47,503
[matt]: what

464
00:22:47,456 –> 00:22:47,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: is

465
00:22:47,543 –> 00:22:48,625
[matt]: was yours gonna be ramsey

466
00:22:48,318 –> 00:22:49,279
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes yes

467
00:22:49,371 –> 00:22:49,712
[paul_tyler]: yes

468
00:22:50,582 –> 00:22:56,371
[ramsey_d_smith]: your answer is yes yes we should
lobby to lobby to make them the qualified

469
00:22:56,411 –> 00:23:00,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: default investment alternative as often as possible
into the broadest possible audience

470
00:23:00,911 –> 00:23:01,135
[paul_tyler]: okay

471
00:23:00,919 –> 00:23:04,365
[ramsey_d_smith]: um and ye so well said matt
m

472
00:23:04,773 –> 00:23:05,943
[matt]: yeh

473
00:23:05,283 –> 00:23:06,565
[paul_tyler]: okay the other question which which

474
00:23:06,513 –> 00:23:06,614
[matt]: what

475
00:23:06,805 –> 00:23:07,566
[paul_tyler]: which raises this

476
00:23:07,705 –> 00:23:09,025
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

477
00:23:07,727 –> 00:23:13,556
[paul_tyler]: educational question base man i get all
the questions like no surprise you know you’re

478
00:23:13,637 –> 00:23:16,181
[paul_tyler]: answering these all day long which is
these annuities

479
00:23:15,993 –> 00:23:16,216
[matt]: oh

480
00:23:16,221 –> 00:23:17,763
[paul_tyler]: the hint the fees

481
00:23:17,785 –> 00:23:18,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

482
00:23:17,824 –> 00:23:20,187
[paul_tyler]: are high the r is low and
i tell him no

483
00:23:20,073 –> 00:23:20,295
[matt]: oh

484
00:23:20,468 –> 00:23:22,992
[paul_tyler]: it’s it’s not an investment an insurance

485
00:23:22,594 –> 00:23:22,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

486
00:23:24,094 –> 00:23:24,274
[paul_tyler]: and

487
00:23:24,445 –> 00:23:25,255
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

488
00:23:24,614 –> 00:23:25,419
[matt]: right that’s right

489
00:23:25,436 –> 00:23:28,481
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s your in the house
now when you when i think of the

490
00:23:28,561 –> 00:23:31,927
[paul_tyler]: process at the employe level and i’m
going through

491
00:23:31,773 –> 00:23:32,096
[matt]: oh

492
00:23:31,967 –> 00:23:37,036
[paul_tyler]: making my choice you know all those
forms are kind of getting my head lined

493
00:23:37,076 –> 00:23:39,339
[paul_tyler]: around an investment oriented process

494
00:23:40,493 –> 00:23:40,574
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

495
00:23:40,790 –> 00:23:44,200
[paul_tyler]: what’s it going to take i mean
to get people to think about oh

496
00:23:44,605 –> 00:23:44,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:23:44,913 –> 00:23:45,154
[matt]: oh

498
00:23:45,122 –> 00:23:46,967
[paul_tyler]: what do i a between

499
00:23:47,163 –> 00:23:47,424
[matt]: oh

500
00:23:48,400 –> 00:23:55,302
[paul_tyler]: my equity my bonds and by the
way you know annuities are bond like protection

501
00:23:55,382 –> 00:24:00,253
[paul_tyler]: their insurance what’s the what do we
need here changing forms in this business is

502
00:24:00,333 –> 00:24:01,756
[paul_tyler]: hard really hard

503
00:24:03,793 –> 00:24:08,242
[matt]: yeah that topic paul is is m
s you know i think that one of

504
00:24:08,262 –> 00:24:09,385
[matt]: the most abused terms

505
00:24:09,745 –> 00:24:10,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

506
00:24:09,986 –> 00:24:15,736
[matt]: in the financial services industry today is
financial wellness everybody has a different definition everybody

507
00:24:15,897 –> 00:24:19,844
[matt]: thinks that it means something else there’s
all kinds of software out there and the

508
00:24:19,884 –> 00:24:24,312
[matt]: bottom line is that the participants rarely
engage in that unless

509
00:24:24,685 –> 00:24:25,435
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

510
00:24:24,893 –> 00:24:31,223
[matt]: somebody comes out meets with them and
really talks about their specific situation and so

511
00:24:31,303 –> 00:24:37,356
[matt]: it becomes a challenge to to do
education broadly at the participant level see that’s

512
00:24:37,417 –> 00:24:38,908
[matt]: why i like the d a

513
00:24:39,912 –> 00:24:40,465
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

514
00:24:40,003 –> 00:24:44,531
[matt]: you know we’ve done a really good
job on the on the accumulation side of

515
00:24:44,891 –> 00:24:51,522
[matt]: retirement savings with auto enrolment autoescalation you
know things like that where to the end

516
00:24:51,623 –> 00:24:54,730
[matt]: investor it’s kind of painless because it’s
small incremental changes

517
00:24:54,521 –> 00:24:55,075
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

518
00:24:54,810 –> 00:25:01,385
[matt]: over time but it’s really disappointing that
once somebody has worked and accumulated the assets

519
00:25:01,425 –> 00:25:05,947
[matt]: and we all know that all investors
under saved that when they get to retirement

520
00:25:06,913 –> 00:25:11,180
[matt]: there’s no way to help them with
that going forward and typically if you’re sixty

521
00:25:11,260 –> 00:25:15,588
[matt]: five and you’ve got a nest egg
and you’re getting ready to retire um

522
00:25:15,445 –> 00:25:15,769
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

523
00:25:16,088 –> 00:25:19,374
[matt]: you know you might know what your
fixed expenses are but if you’re left on

524
00:25:19,414 –> 00:25:23,101
[matt]: your own to navigate that and if
we look at the vast majority of investors

525
00:25:23,149 –> 00:25:23,845
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

526
00:25:23,903 –> 00:25:31,090
[matt]: they don’t have enough in acids qualify
to really be serviced by a financial advisor

527
00:25:31,270 –> 00:25:36,559
[matt]: and so there’s a humungus gap out
there in the market today um and again

528
00:25:36,800 –> 00:25:40,325
[matt]: that’s that’s a reason why i believe
that p d i a is such a

529
00:25:40,385 –> 00:25:44,992
[matt]: great alternative for the vast majority of
retirement savers

530
00:25:46,066 –> 00:25:51,034
[ramsey_d_smith]: that is such an important point because
it right it enhances the accumulation phase by

531
00:25:51,695 –> 00:25:57,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: by stabilizing stabilizing account value is a
clear path into into retirement with us stable

532
00:25:58,126 –> 00:26:03,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: sort of foundational income but then i
think this is a really critical point and

533
00:26:03,655 –> 00:26:07,181
[ramsey_d_smith]: i think the industry still needs to
figure out what this looks like but this

534
00:26:07,261 –> 00:26:12,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: notion of staying in plan through now
through a post retirement um i think it’s

535
00:26:12,790 –> 00:26:17,298
[ramsey_d_smith]: really important and to your you made
the point earlier it means more assets retained

536
00:26:17,358 –> 00:26:23,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: by by plan sponsor so that’s more
cost efficiencies purp i pen that’s great um

537
00:26:23,627 –> 00:26:27,052
[ramsey_d_smith]: i do think and actually and the
other thing is that it means not rolling

538
00:26:27,152 –> 00:26:33,892
[ramsey_d_smith]: over into you know expensive you know
an expensive alternative that might mar may not

539
00:26:33,952 –> 00:26:36,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: be you know managed by an r
a or some other

540
00:26:36,204 –> 00:26:36,387
[matt]: that’s

541
00:26:36,416 –> 00:26:36,837
[ramsey_d_smith]: platform

542
00:26:36,469 –> 00:26:36,631
[matt]: right

543
00:26:37,718 –> 00:26:40,803
[ramsey_d_smith]: um but here’s the thing in order
to make that work

544
00:26:40,833 –> 00:26:41,583
[matt]: yeah

545
00:26:41,585 –> 00:26:46,697
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan sponsors or their you know the
vendors have to have a post retirement platform

546
00:26:47,279 –> 00:26:53,481
[ramsey_d_smith]: that replaces some of those services are
provided right now by that that advisor that

547
00:26:53,521 –> 00:26:56,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: takes the role over like those are
those are those are this real value added

548
00:26:56,726 –> 00:27:02,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: services in there even if they’re sometimes
expensive there’s real value added services so what

549
00:27:02,156 –> 00:27:04,684
[ramsey_d_smith]: are your thoughts instead of where now
where

550
00:27:04,563 –> 00:27:04,766
[matt]: oh

551
00:27:04,804 –> 00:27:10,771
[ramsey_d_smith]: we are is an industry instead of
offering those post retirement services sort of in

552
00:27:11,353 –> 00:27:14,982
[ramsey_d_smith]: plan is that a lot more work
to come or you think we’re head in

553
00:27:15,002 –> 00:27:15,062
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

554
00:27:15,015 –> 00:27:15,056
[matt]: i

555
00:27:15,082 –> 00:27:15,202
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

556
00:27:15,178 –> 00:27:15,361
[matt]: think

557
00:27:15,222 –> 00:27:15,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: direction

558
00:27:16,313 –> 00:27:19,718
[matt]: i think that we’re still in the
in the picture warming up on the mound

559
00:27:19,818 –> 00:27:20,119
[matt]: before

560
00:27:20,305 –> 00:27:21,085
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

561
00:27:20,480 –> 00:27:25,107
[matt]: they take the mound in the first
inning i mean you know ramsey it’s crazy

562
00:27:25,147 –> 00:27:25,768
[matt]: when you think about

563
00:27:25,705 –> 00:27:26,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

564
00:27:25,828 –> 00:27:30,416
[matt]: again all the debate about financial welles
or are ways to get people to save

565
00:27:30,496 –> 00:27:35,585
[matt]: more i feel like that’s where more
of the conversation is than you know now

566
00:27:35,645 –> 00:27:40,533
[matt]: that somebody’s reached retirement how do we
help them going forward and again i feel

567
00:27:40,593 –> 00:27:45,374
[matt]: like that’s a topic that’s just really
starting to gain momentum i know that there’s

568
00:27:45,434 –> 00:27:47,457
[matt]: some things in secure act to ow

569
00:27:47,665 –> 00:27:47,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

570
00:27:48,098 –> 00:27:52,946
[matt]: that may help with that but i
really do feel that on the legislative side

571
00:27:53,527 –> 00:28:01,836
[matt]: that the legislators are becoming more interested
and the retirement outcome certainly because you know

572
00:28:01,956 –> 00:28:07,165
[matt]: say what you will about so security
but you know we’ve got to figure out

573
00:28:07,205 –> 00:28:08,888
[matt]: a way to refill that trust fund
too

574
00:28:08,875 –> 00:28:08,895
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

575
00:28:09,048 –> 00:28:13,560
[matt]: and so there’s only so many ways
that we can do that and so yeah

576
00:28:13,660 –> 00:28:18,426
[matt]: i think that the i really think
that the next focus from the financial services

577
00:28:18,487 –> 00:28:18,928
[matt]: community

578
00:28:18,934 –> 00:28:18,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

579
00:28:19,208 –> 00:28:23,740
[matt]: is going to be on you know
post accumulation and how we help people going

580
00:28:23,800 –> 00:28:24,121
[matt]: forward

581
00:28:26,147 –> 00:28:30,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: i agree and i think it’s great
and i think we need to come up

582
00:28:30,253 –> 00:28:36,764
[ramsey_d_smith]: with an institutionally priced and scaleable solution
that it reaches like all consumers who need

583
00:28:36,804 –> 00:28:38,595
[ramsey_d_smith]: it just the wealthy so that’s i
think it’s

584
00:28:38,574 –> 00:28:38,654
[matt]: and

585
00:28:38,636 –> 00:28:39,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

586
00:28:38,875 –> 00:28:43,328
[matt]: ramsey he brought up something that i
is again very near and dear to my

587
00:28:43,429 –> 00:28:43,689
[matt]: heart

588
00:28:44,117 –> 00:28:44,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

589
00:28:44,883 –> 00:28:48,879
[matt]: now that’s the fiduciary standard and the
benefit by keeping people in plan

590
00:28:48,805 –> 00:28:49,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

591
00:28:49,140 –> 00:28:49,300
[matt]: is

592
00:28:49,733 –> 00:28:49,894
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

593
00:28:49,883 –> 00:28:52,531
[matt]: those are those are fiduciary accounts by
default

594
00:28:52,766 –> 00:28:52,889
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

595
00:28:53,233 –> 00:28:56,805
[matt]: so you’ve got a fediciary that’s sitting
on top of that is for the participants

596
00:28:57,547 –> 00:29:04,391
[matt]: sole benefit that that plan exists and
if somebody takes their their roll over and

597
00:29:04,552 –> 00:29:09,780
[matt]: they’re not financially save that’s when people
can really get into trouble and that’s

598
00:29:09,840 –> 00:29:10,082
[paul_tyler]: oh

599
00:29:10,021 –> 00:29:13,307
[matt]: that’s where all those horses he’s come
from so yeah i think that that’s another

600
00:29:13,347 –> 00:29:16,032
[matt]: benefit of keeping people in plan

601
00:29:16,455 –> 00:29:16,637
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

602
00:29:16,710 –> 00:29:23,141
[paul_tyler]: so so maker question from the annuity
space you and ramsey are wild in the

603
00:29:23,361 –> 00:29:27,488
[paul_tyler]: industry is wildly successful and let’s say
it know ramsey what what’s a

604
00:29:27,543 –> 00:29:27,748
[matt]: oh

605
00:29:27,568 –> 00:29:30,436
[paul_tyler]: big number five per cent i mean
if we were to look back and say

606
00:29:30,496 –> 00:29:34,407
[paul_tyler]: wow this is this was wildly successful
or five percent of

607
00:29:34,863 –> 00:29:35,127
[matt]: yeah

608
00:29:35,610 –> 00:29:40,310
[paul_tyler]: kferinkasset’s in annuity is ten percent you
have a view m

609
00:29:40,736 –> 00:29:43,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: ten per cent would be seven hundred
billion dollars

610
00:29:43,460 –> 00:29:43,602
[paul_tyler]: yeah

611
00:29:43,686 –> 00:29:45,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that would be d be a
nice start

612
00:29:45,400 –> 00:29:45,720
[paul_tyler]: huge

613
00:29:46,113 –> 00:29:46,958
[matt]: it’d be a good start

614
00:29:47,002 –> 00:29:47,123
[paul_tyler]: yeah

615
00:29:47,335 –> 00:29:47,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

616
00:29:47,363 –> 00:29:51,570
[paul_tyler]: let’s cut it back and say so
five percent um you know at what what

617
00:29:51,650 –> 00:29:52,872
[paul_tyler]: does this mean for

618
00:29:52,848 –> 00:29:52,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

619
00:29:53,293 –> 00:30:00,104
[paul_tyler]: the ou know independent agent independent advisor
doing you know inganuities today because does it

620
00:30:00,204 –> 00:30:00,425
[paul_tyler]: just

621
00:30:00,205 –> 00:30:00,410
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

622
00:30:01,487 –> 00:30:06,355
[paul_tyler]: if you delivered annuity you’ve educated public
to the point where they understand and they

623
00:30:06,435 –> 00:30:10,823
[paul_tyler]: love them and the market stays or
de s roll overs go down and so

624
00:30:11,184 –> 00:30:14,250
[paul_tyler]: you know we’re kind of it’s a
water bed the market

625
00:30:15,503 –> 00:30:19,166
[matt]: really really two questions there right one
is what does it do to the advisor

626
00:30:19,186 –> 00:30:22,669
[matt]: who’s focused on annuities and then the
other one is a really common question that

627
00:30:22,709 –> 00:30:23,170
[matt]: i get is

628
00:30:23,455 –> 00:30:24,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

629
00:30:23,610 –> 00:30:27,294
[matt]: why would i do an i plan
guarantee because i’m not going to get any

630
00:30:27,334 –> 00:30:31,038
[matt]: roll over business so those are like
two separate questions but i believe that for

631
00:30:31,118 –> 00:30:37,965
[matt]: the for the financial professional who’s focused
on annuities having inplananuities will be a big

632
00:30:38,025 –> 00:30:42,569
[matt]: lift to their business because again i
would say that you know most practicipants don’t

633
00:30:42,609 –> 00:30:43,569
[matt]: even read their statement

634
00:30:43,410 –> 00:30:43,957
[paul_tyler]: oh

635
00:30:44,310 –> 00:30:50,767
[matt]: and they certainly don’t understand fees or
disclosure so there’s a reluctance for investors to

636
00:30:50,807 –> 00:30:54,914
[matt]: look at some of these solutions is
they just don’t understand them and so if

637
00:30:54,974 –> 00:30:59,141
[matt]: the average participant in a plan could
understand that they are protected with a guarantee

638
00:31:00,103 –> 00:31:03,829
[matt]: everybody has held away assets that are
outside the plan so i think that that

639
00:31:03,869 –> 00:31:08,617
[matt]: would be that would make the story
much easier for those people that are really

640
00:31:08,697 –> 00:31:13,385
[matt]: focused on providing guaranteed income solutions under
wealth man inside because again you’re just going

641
00:31:13,405 –> 00:31:19,014
[matt]: to have a population that’s more educated
the other thing is when a population is

642
00:31:19,094 –> 00:31:23,822
[matt]: more educated it brings more transparency to
the market and that’s good for everybody that’s

643
00:31:23,842 –> 00:31:24,263
[matt]: god for the

644
00:31:24,205 –> 00:31:25,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

645
00:31:24,843 –> 00:31:29,408
[matt]: the advisors that are focused on that
it’s good for the end investors um so

646
00:31:29,488 –> 00:31:33,092
[matt]: that that’s one segment of it paul
the other question that i get asked often

647
00:31:33,172 –> 00:31:38,335
[matt]: is advisers just going to kill my
roll over business and you know if that’s

648
00:31:38,355 –> 00:31:40,318
[matt]: what you built your business on again
i

649
00:31:40,320 –> 00:31:40,562
[paul_tyler]: oh

650
00:31:40,358 –> 00:31:44,525
[matt]: would just challenge that advisor to look
at the demographics of a plan because whether

651
00:31:44,565 –> 00:31:50,755
[matt]: it’s the old eighty twenty rule or
ninety ten the people have sophisticated planning needs

652
00:31:51,295 –> 00:31:55,300
[matt]: they most likely again have outside assets
that they’re going to need help with and

653
00:31:55,320 –> 00:31:59,330
[matt]: they’re still going to look to that
advisor for that the for somebody who’s worked

654
00:31:59,370 –> 00:32:03,584
[matt]: in the plan and they’ve got you
know forty thousand dollars

655
00:32:03,510 –> 00:32:04,110
[paul_tyler]: yeah

656
00:32:04,005 –> 00:32:08,753
[matt]: most likely the advisor um you know
is going to push them into a managed

657
00:32:08,793 –> 00:32:13,421
[matt]: portfolio or you know they may not
even have the time to meet somebody like

658
00:32:13,481 –> 00:32:19,090
[matt]: that so um you know i think
that the in plan is good because again

659
00:32:19,150 –> 00:32:24,459
[matt]: it brings visibility to the idea of
guaranteed income and secondly those individuals with more

660
00:32:24,519 –> 00:32:28,298
[matt]: sophisticated needs they’re going to be lookin
for financial professional help anyways

661
00:32:30,726 –> 00:32:34,933
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right so we we were supposed
to also talk about the four percent rule

662
00:32:34,993 –> 00:32:36,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: but where we’re hitting the

663
00:32:36,783 –> 00:32:37,431
[matt]: yeah

664
00:32:36,896 –> 00:32:40,983
[ramsey_d_smith]: the end of time here so i
know there’s if there’s any any quick comments

665
00:32:41,003 –> 00:32:41,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: you

666
00:32:41,034 –> 00:32:41,280
[matt]: yeah

667
00:32:41,163 –> 00:32:44,073
[ramsey_d_smith]: want to make on or we can
have you come back to to talk about

668
00:32:44,114 –> 00:32:46,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: that sometimes soon as well

669
00:32:47,073 –> 00:32:47,213
[matt]: i’d

670
00:32:47,150 –> 00:32:47,291
[paul_tyler]: yeah

671
00:32:47,233 –> 00:32:50,839
[matt]: love to come back i could do
i could i could beat michell’s record for

672
00:32:50,879 –> 00:32:52,863
[matt]: being on the shows i got so
much to talk about

673
00:32:52,710 –> 00:32:53,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

674
00:32:52,963 –> 00:32:53,123
[matt]: but

675
00:32:53,325 –> 00:32:54,475
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

676
00:32:54,005 –> 00:32:56,489
[matt]: you know you guys just have to
you guys just have to rain me in

677
00:32:56,869 –> 00:32:56,929
[matt]: you

678
00:32:56,875 –> 00:32:57,263
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

679
00:32:56,969 –> 00:33:02,423
[matt]: know i just think you know i
met with all of our partners yesterday and

680
00:33:02,604 –> 00:33:10,565
[matt]: the optimism around in plan has never
been higher i think that the portability question

681
00:33:10,645 –> 00:33:12,368
[matt]: is still a big issue that

682
00:33:12,325 –> 00:33:12,345
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:33:12,408 –> 00:33:14,592
[matt]: lingers out there both at

684
00:33:14,584 –> 00:33:14,605
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

685
00:33:14,632 –> 00:33:16,836
[matt]: the plan level and at the participant
level

686
00:33:17,695 –> 00:33:19,004
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

687
00:33:18,258 –> 00:33:23,773
[matt]: and at the same time you know
it’s the record keeping community that really needs

688
00:33:23,833 –> 00:33:27,835
[matt]: to make a decision in a commitment
to commit to these and i think that

689
00:33:27,915 –> 00:33:33,225
[matt]: twenty twenty three is going to be
a very interesting year to see what happens

690
00:33:33,445 –> 00:33:39,656
[matt]: in that regard and to see what
solutions these record keepers begin to select so

691
00:33:40,337 –> 00:33:43,282
[matt]: i think that the twenty three is
really going to be an interesting year for

692
00:33:43,362 –> 00:33:44,770
[matt]: the the plan market

693
00:33:45,631 –> 00:33:51,520
[paul_tyler]: yeah i this this was wonderful and
you know what you offered we’ll pull you

694
00:33:51,560 –> 00:33:53,203
[paul_tyler]: back to talk

695
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,173
[ramsey_d_smith]: ay

696
00:33:53,323 –> 00:33:53,564
[paul_tyler]: more

697
00:33:53,494 –> 00:33:53,837
[matt]: awesome

698
00:33:54,045 –> 00:33:54,465
[paul_tyler]: so i

699
00:33:54,535 –> 00:33:55,555
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

700
00:33:54,545 –> 00:34:00,615
[paul_tyler]: guess my last question for you matt
i looked back in twenty twenty twenty one

701
00:34:00,756 –> 00:34:04,101
[paul_tyler]: i think it was the year of
life insurance you know covid happened

702
00:34:03,835 –> 00:34:04,735
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

703
00:34:04,181 –> 00:34:08,629
[paul_tyler]: people said i’m like oh oh maybe
i could die and maybe i need insurance

704
00:34:09,371 –> 00:34:09,551
[paul_tyler]: we saw

705
00:34:09,573 –> 00:34:09,796
[matt]: oh

706
00:34:09,611 –> 00:34:14,265
[paul_tyler]: a big spike do you think twenty
two is the year of the annuity when

707
00:34:14,305 –> 00:34:20,470
[paul_tyler]: people say my fork dropped thirty percent
wow i’d had it this an annuity yeah

708
00:34:21,212 –> 00:34:24,882
[paul_tyler]: maybe this wouldn’t happened or at least
i wouldn’t because i wouldn’t be looking at

709
00:34:24,922 –> 00:34:26,286
[paul_tyler]: my statement like i’m looking today

710
00:34:28,976 –> 00:34:30,040
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know go ahead man

711
00:34:30,823 –> 00:34:33,948
[matt]: i was just going to say i
agree i think whether or not twenty two

712
00:34:34,088 –> 00:34:39,698
[matt]: is it definitely opens up the conversation
for literally every investor i also think it’s

713
00:34:39,718 –> 00:34:42,313
[matt]: a good time for financial advisors be

714
00:34:42,369 –> 00:34:42,390
[paul_tyler]: m

715
00:34:42,373 –> 00:34:45,496
[matt]: on the hunt for new clients i
know that they’re really worried about pretension now

716
00:34:45,656 –> 00:34:46,477
[matt]: but when the

717
00:34:46,479 –> 00:34:46,500
[paul_tyler]: m

718
00:34:46,497 –> 00:34:48,059
[matt]: market drops twenty five percent

719
00:34:48,060 –> 00:34:48,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

720
00:34:48,599 –> 00:34:51,202
[matt]: it’s not fair to blame your advisor
but i think a lot of people do

721
00:34:53,076 –> 00:34:56,622
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was just going to mention
that you know we recently put together a

722
00:34:56,682 –> 00:35:01,129
[ramsey_d_smith]: slide that showed five year performance of
target date funds and it was across all

723
00:35:01,530 –> 00:35:06,640
[ramsey_d_smith]: called the six top providers and the
five year return is about just just under

724
00:35:06,700 –> 00:35:11,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: five percent for most of them so
you know that’s five per cent from you

725
00:35:11,248 –> 00:35:11,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: know

726
00:35:11,340 –> 00:35:11,564
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:35:11,889 –> 00:35:13,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: in an at risk situation

728
00:35:13,883 –> 00:35:14,291
[matt]: that’s right

729
00:35:14,454 –> 00:35:18,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: and so the compare the comparison starts
look a lot more

730
00:35:18,390 –> 00:35:18,715
[paul_tyler]: oh

731
00:35:19,162 –> 00:35:20,283
[ramsey_d_smith]: a lot more interesting for sure

732
00:35:21,410 –> 00:35:22,233
[paul_tyler]: yeah well listen

733
00:35:22,364 –> 00:35:23,108
[matt]: yeah you know what

734
00:35:24,942 –> 00:35:25,705
[paul_tyler]: go ahead matt please

735
00:35:25,606 –> 00:35:27,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: go ahead matt you have the stage

736
00:35:27,864 –> 00:35:29,667
[matt]: you guys you guys let me talk
all day long

737
00:35:29,805 –> 00:35:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

738
00:35:30,107 –> 00:35:33,413
[matt]: i was just going to say you
know another really quick personal story i have

739
00:35:33,453 –> 00:35:35,977
[matt]: a friend of mine that worked for
a t and t for thirty two years

740
00:35:36,358 –> 00:35:36,518
[matt]: and

741
00:35:36,489 –> 00:35:36,510
[paul_tyler]: m

742
00:35:37,039 –> 00:35:43,556
[matt]: he was thinking about retiring last december
and he didn’t and he just recently retired

743
00:35:43,976 –> 00:35:48,722
[matt]: um but if you think about the
difference between retiring in december

744
00:35:49,315 –> 00:35:49,762
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

745
00:35:49,493 –> 00:35:51,356
[matt]: of twenty one versus

746
00:35:51,055 –> 00:35:51,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

747
00:35:51,477 –> 00:35:56,377
[matt]: retiring in october of twenty two and
the hit that you’re for when k is

748
00:35:56,437 –> 00:36:00,726
[matt]: taken now again he has enough cash
on the side that he can wait for

749
00:36:00,886 –> 00:36:04,864
[matt]: the market to recover which is great
but if he didn’t you know from an

750
00:36:05,064 –> 00:36:07,890
[matt]: income standpoint ramsey on a monthly basis

751
00:36:07,705 –> 00:36:07,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

752
00:36:07,930 –> 00:36:10,634
[matt]: going forward those you know those

753
00:36:11,065 –> 00:36:11,755
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

754
00:36:12,117 –> 00:36:14,501
[matt]: those consequences are pretty severe and so
you’re right

755
00:36:14,670 –> 00:36:15,450
[paul_tyler]: yeah

756
00:36:15,273 –> 00:36:19,720
[matt]: if it’s five percent over the past
five years wouldn’t you rather have that guaranteed

757
00:36:20,185 –> 00:36:20,205
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

758
00:36:20,602 –> 00:36:24,748
[matt]: with maybe some upside is to oppose
to losing twenty five per cent

759
00:36:24,714 –> 00:36:24,796
[paul_tyler]: ah

760
00:36:24,769 –> 00:36:27,092
[matt]: of your value as you get to
enter into retirement

761
00:36:26,905 –> 00:36:26,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

762
00:36:27,533 –> 00:36:30,561
[matt]: um that’s a pretty tricky situation for
most investors

763
00:36:32,746 –> 00:36:37,030
[ramsey_d_smith]: all right matt it has been a
real pleasure o thank you for thank you

764
00:36:37,090 –> 00:36:39,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: for joining us and then you know
i echo

765
00:36:39,330 –> 00:36:39,611
[paul_tyler]: oh

766
00:36:39,432 –> 00:36:42,354
[ramsey_d_smith]: paul’s desire to have you come back
on sometime soon

767
00:36:43,313 –> 00:36:43,937
[matt]: on good thank you

768
00:36:43,970 –> 00:36:44,311
[paul_tyler]: excellent

769
00:36:43,997 –> 00:36:44,239
[matt]: fellows

770
00:36:44,510 –> 00:36:44,531
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

771
00:36:44,572 –> 00:36:48,582
[paul_tyler]: he thanks man thanks to our listeners
join us again next week for another great

772
00:36:48,682 –> 00:36:50,126
[paul_tyler]: episode of that annuity

773
00:36:50,035 –> 00:36:50,580
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:36:50,207 –> 00:36:50,788
[paul_tyler]: show thanks

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 168: The Year Of In-Plan Annuities with Matt Wolniewicz
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Episode 167: Answering Social Security Questions in Today’s Environment with Martha Shedden

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Social Security remains the starting point for many client conversations. It takes a lot of work to stay current with the changes in rules. Martha Shedden, Co-founder, President at NARSSA, joins us today to talk about the tools agents can use. In addition, we cover answers to many common retirement questions that clients are asking today.

Links mentioned:https://www.linkedin.com/in/marthashedden/https://narssa.org/

NARSSA provides education and resources to Social Security experts to help clients maximize their Social Security benefits. (246 kB)

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,580 –> 00:00:06,968
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to another episode of that annuity show bruno

2
00:00:07,068 –> 00:00:07,408
[paul_tyler]: welcome

3
00:00:08,685 –> 00:00:09,127
[bruno_caron]: thank you

4
00:00:10,100 –> 00:00:11,201
[paul_tyler]: okay i’m glad

5
00:00:11,293 –> 00:00:11,314
[martha_shedden]: m

6
00:00:11,502 –> 00:00:17,211
[paul_tyler]: you’re you’re now an official co host
and look forward to have you on a

7
00:00:17,292 –> 00:00:17,392
[paul_tyler]: lot

8
00:00:17,325 –> 00:00:17,586
[bruno_caron]: yeah

9
00:00:17,452 –> 00:00:19,756
[paul_tyler]: of these discussions adding your perspective

10
00:00:20,508 –> 00:00:20,570
[bruno_caron]: ah

11
00:00:20,677 –> 00:00:21,138
[paul_tyler]: you’re coming to

12
00:00:21,145 –> 00:00:21,245
[bruno_caron]: it’s

13
00:00:21,198 –> 00:00:21,258
[paul_tyler]: us

14
00:00:21,285 –> 00:00:21,325
[bruno_caron]: a

15
00:00:21,298 –> 00:00:21,418
[paul_tyler]: from

16
00:00:21,385 –> 00:00:22,328
[bruno_caron]: pleasure and an honor

17
00:00:22,704 –> 00:00:24,495
[paul_tyler]: and you’re coming to us from canada
correct

18
00:00:25,376 –> 00:00:25,717
[bruno_caron]: correct

19
00:00:26,420 –> 00:00:26,681
[paul_tyler]: okay

20
00:00:26,720 –> 00:00:27,082
[bruno_caron]: correct

21
00:00:27,805 –> 00:00:28,246
[paul_tyler]: so what

22
00:00:28,326 –> 00:00:28,688
[bruno_caron]: recently

23
00:00:30,370 –> 00:00:34,237
[paul_tyler]: yeah new job new role same same

24
00:00:34,125 –> 00:00:34,145
[bruno_caron]: m

25
00:00:34,297 –> 00:00:35,079
[paul_tyler]: local correct

26
00:00:36,645 –> 00:00:44,838
[bruno_caron]: correct correct recently moved and very excited
about my en you roll in of course

27
00:00:44,919 –> 00:00:47,503
[bruno_caron]: it’s very topical for

28
00:00:47,670 –> 00:00:48,360
[paul_tyler]: yeah

29
00:00:48,064 –> 00:00:49,068
[bruno_caron]: for the pot so

30
00:00:49,240 –> 00:00:49,424
[paul_tyler]: yeah

31
00:00:49,249 –> 00:00:50,555
[bruno_caron]: i’m very excited about that

32
00:00:50,971 –> 00:00:54,837
[paul_tyler]: yeah well ramsen forcing couldn’t be on
here he’s actually traveling he’s been driving a

33
00:00:54,897 –> 00:00:57,582
[paul_tyler]: lot so this is one of the
few episodes in a long time that he’s

34
00:00:57,662 –> 00:01:04,233
[paul_tyler]: missed but hopefully have im on back
next next next week um today listen we

35
00:01:04,273 –> 00:01:09,582
[paul_tyler]: got a really great guest for you
and our guest is martha she any may

36
00:01:09,622 –> 00:01:12,667
[paul_tyler]: have heard of her and i actually
got to know her as

37
00:01:12,684 –> 00:01:12,705
[bruno_caron]: m

38
00:01:13,468 –> 00:01:18,096
[paul_tyler]: she was kind enough invite me on
as a guest of her podcast and

39
00:01:18,225 –> 00:01:18,245
[bruno_caron]: m

40
00:01:19,117 –> 00:01:24,727
[paul_tyler]: martha’s got a really interesting you know
life story you know where she was how

41
00:01:24,767 –> 00:01:33,936
[paul_tyler]: she got into this business and currently
she is co founder and president of narsa

42
00:01:34,517 –> 00:01:36,619
[paul_tyler]: martha did i say that narsa

43
00:01:37,576 –> 00:01:38,359
[martha_shedden]: refer to yes

44
00:01:38,230 –> 00:01:42,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah and so tell us about
it tell us about your your organization tell

45
00:01:42,460 –> 00:01:44,606
[paul_tyler]: us about who your what what do
you do

46
00:01:47,455 –> 00:01:56,090
[martha_shedden]: well we in a short and a
short statement we educate and train financial professionals

47
00:01:56,511 –> 00:01:57,853
[martha_shedden]: on social security

48
00:01:57,330 –> 00:01:57,594
[paul_tyler]: oh

49
00:01:58,774 –> 00:01:59,958
[martha_shedden]: and claiming

50
00:02:00,240 –> 00:02:00,523
[paul_tyler]: yah

51
00:02:00,340 –> 00:02:02,086
[martha_shedden]: rules and strategy so that they

52
00:02:02,079 –> 00:02:02,100
[paul_tyler]: h

53
00:02:02,146 –> 00:02:11,270
[martha_shedden]: can help their clients make optimal claiming
decision and i can back up a little

54
00:02:11,310 –> 00:02:12,234
[martha_shedden]: bit about how i got

55
00:02:12,280 –> 00:02:12,460
[paul_tyler]: yeah

56
00:02:12,415 –> 00:02:15,417
[martha_shedden]: started back in yeah i have

57
00:02:15,329 –> 00:02:15,590
[paul_tyler]: how did

58
00:02:15,518 –> 00:02:15,538
[martha_shedden]: a

59
00:02:15,630 –> 00:02:15,711
[paul_tyler]: you

60
00:02:15,779 –> 00:02:15,940
[martha_shedden]: kind

61
00:02:15,831 –> 00:02:16,052
[paul_tyler]: end up

62
00:02:16,000 –> 00:02:16,041
[martha_shedden]: of

63
00:02:16,112 –> 00:02:17,476
[paul_tyler]: in this crazy world of ours

64
00:02:17,535 –> 00:02:17,756
[bruno_caron]: uh

65
00:02:18,774 –> 00:02:19,856
[martha_shedden]: it is crazy

66
00:02:19,384 –> 00:02:19,425
[bruno_caron]: uh

67
00:02:19,680 –> 00:02:19,862
[paul_tyler]: yeah

68
00:02:20,176 –> 00:02:20,276
[bruno_caron]: ah

69
00:02:20,197 –> 00:02:21,519
[martha_shedden]: but the story is crazy

70
00:02:21,704 –> 00:02:21,765
[bruno_caron]: ah

71
00:02:21,759 –> 00:02:21,779
[martha_shedden]: i

72
00:02:22,170 –> 00:02:22,433
[paul_tyler]: yeah

73
00:02:23,402 –> 00:02:24,744
[martha_shedden]: trained as a civil engineer

74
00:02:24,765 –> 00:02:24,968
[bruno_caron]: oh

75
00:02:24,985 –> 00:02:25,766
[martha_shedden]: i was working as

76
00:02:25,770 –> 00:02:26,034
[paul_tyler]: yeah

77
00:02:25,846 –> 00:02:27,769
[martha_shedden]: a civil engineer back in two thousand
and eleve

78
00:02:27,735 –> 00:02:27,755
[bruno_caron]: m

79
00:02:27,809 –> 00:02:31,135
[martha_shedden]: and i did that for about thirty
two years and a financial

80
00:02:31,155 –> 00:02:31,175
[bruno_caron]: m

81
00:02:31,235 –> 00:02:31,756
[martha_shedden]: advisor

82
00:02:31,800 –> 00:02:31,965
[paul_tyler]: ye

83
00:02:32,678 –> 00:02:36,624
[martha_shedden]: that i know here locally asked me
to help him with a a project he

84
00:02:36,704 –> 00:02:38,306
[martha_shedden]: had on social security i started

85
00:02:38,265 –> 00:02:38,506
[bruno_caron]: oh

86
00:02:38,406 –> 00:02:38,746
[martha_shedden]: reading

87
00:02:38,460 –> 00:02:38,701
[paul_tyler]: oh

88
00:02:38,806 –> 00:02:41,509
[martha_shedden]: books and researching i’m right in the
middle

89
00:02:41,318 –> 00:02:41,520
[paul_tyler]: yeah

90
00:02:42,170 –> 00:02:44,432
[martha_shedden]: excuse me of the baby boomers and
i was

91
00:02:44,310 –> 00:02:44,532
[paul_tyler]: oh

92
00:02:44,652 –> 00:02:44,793
[martha_shedden]: so

93
00:02:45,720 –> 00:02:45,984
[paul_tyler]: oh

94
00:02:45,794 –> 00:02:48,977
[martha_shedden]: shocked at what i didn’t know what
i didn’t understand

95
00:02:48,465 –> 00:02:48,485
[bruno_caron]: m

96
00:02:49,578 –> 00:02:53,002
[martha_shedden]: how much money is at stake for
our lifetime

97
00:02:53,040 –> 00:02:53,364
[paul_tyler]: yeah

98
00:02:53,062 –> 00:02:57,195
[martha_shedden]: amounts and i became quite

99
00:02:57,240 –> 00:02:57,564
[paul_tyler]: yes

100
00:02:57,496 –> 00:02:58,597
[martha_shedden]: fanatical about it

101
00:02:59,265 –> 00:02:59,507
[bruno_caron]: oh

102
00:02:59,298 –> 00:03:03,463
[martha_shedden]: and i decided to go through the
chartered retirement planning councillor program

103
00:03:03,390 –> 00:03:03,673
[paul_tyler]: oh

104
00:03:04,384 –> 00:03:06,630
[martha_shedden]: i had the opportunity to teach a

105
00:03:06,855 –> 00:03:07,116
[bruno_caron]: oh

106
00:03:07,192 –> 00:03:08,956
[martha_shedden]: online course on the basics of

107
00:03:08,925 –> 00:03:09,189
[bruno_caron]: yeah

108
00:03:09,057 –> 00:03:18,332
[martha_shedden]: social security which led to further courses
and that was for mostly for c p

109
00:03:18,533 –> 00:03:22,941
[martha_shedden]: as so i did that through three
different providers and that’s how i met my

110
00:03:23,062 –> 00:03:28,297
[martha_shedden]: current co founder and business partner michael
rosedale who’s a c p a in new

111
00:03:28,357 –> 00:03:32,554
[martha_shedden]: york and i’m in california and we
founded narsa in

112
00:03:32,499 –> 00:03:32,520
[paul_tyler]: m

113
00:03:32,634 –> 00:03:40,128
[martha_shedden]: two thousand seventeen he saw the need
excuse me he saw the need and he

114
00:03:40,309 –> 00:03:42,877
[martha_shedden]: saw the opportunity for

115
00:03:42,795 –> 00:03:42,999
[bruno_caron]: oh

116
00:03:42,978 –> 00:03:49,722
[martha_shedden]: tax professionals to use this as an
addition to their services because the way i

117
00:03:50,383 –> 00:03:55,111
[martha_shedden]: i had started my own business and
what i was doing was offering client analyses

118
00:03:55,231 –> 00:04:02,378
[martha_shedden]: for a fixed fee and that seemed
to deal well with the tax profession as

119
00:04:02,478 –> 00:04:08,408
[martha_shedden]: another service they could offer and it
has expanded beyond that so we

120
00:04:08,340 –> 00:04:08,704
[paul_tyler]: oh

121
00:04:08,745 –> 00:04:08,927
[bruno_caron]: ye

122
00:04:08,809 –> 00:04:15,288
[martha_shedden]: created the five module training corps um
we are very unique in that the fifth

123
00:04:15,429 –> 00:04:21,308
[martha_shedden]: module is training using our software to
do the client analysis so someone who goes

124
00:04:21,368 –> 00:04:26,012
[martha_shedden]: through the course passes the final exam
then is an r s s a register

125
00:04:26,092 –> 00:04:27,193
[martha_shedden]: so security analyst

126
00:04:27,075 –> 00:04:27,258
[bruno_caron]: oh

127
00:04:27,273 –> 00:04:35,298
[martha_shedden]: and they are equipped to with our
support to help their clients with that claiming

128
00:04:35,338 –> 00:04:35,701
[martha_shedden]: decision

129
00:04:36,872 –> 00:04:46,465
[paul_tyler]: got it and just since you’re so
focused on this and question around trajectories for

130
00:04:47,007 –> 00:04:50,837
[paul_tyler]: client conversations and please correct me if
i’m wrong you know were in the middle

131
00:04:50,857 –> 00:04:56,777
[paul_tyler]: of medicare openrolment we sell medicare supplement
surance so we’re starting those calls

132
00:04:56,535 –> 00:04:57,002
[bruno_caron]: oh

133
00:04:56,857 –> 00:05:02,526
[paul_tyler]: and and there clearly is part of
the population that sort of starts that retirement

134
00:05:02,586 –> 00:05:05,752
[paul_tyler]: conversation with health care because people or
work until they’re

135
00:05:05,764 –> 00:05:06,008
[martha_shedden]: yes

136
00:05:05,792 –> 00:05:08,256
[paul_tyler]: sixty five then they must file and
that sort of triggers

137
00:05:08,096 –> 00:05:08,297
[bruno_caron]: yeah

138
00:05:08,296 –> 00:05:13,565
[paul_tyler]: a lot of decisions they haven’t made
um some think in advance some retire early

139
00:05:13,645 –> 00:05:13,865
[paul_tyler]: need to

140
00:05:14,235 –> 00:05:14,255
[bruno_caron]: m

141
00:05:14,466 –> 00:05:17,531
[paul_tyler]: start with retirement early or your

142
00:05:17,404 –> 00:05:17,605
[martha_shedden]: oh

143
00:05:17,631 –> 00:05:24,262
[paul_tyler]: planners social security seems like very critical
track the other direction is housing you know

144
00:05:24,523 –> 00:05:26,546
[paul_tyler]: i got this big house my kids
moved out

145
00:05:27,015 –> 00:05:27,795
[bruno_caron]: oh

146
00:05:27,388 –> 00:05:31,374
[paul_tyler]: where do i live that sort of
says well what are my expenses what the

147
00:05:31,935 –> 00:05:35,862
[paul_tyler]: how do i cut my costs what
do you do with my house where i

148
00:05:35,902 –> 00:05:39,288
[paul_tyler]: put the money are those the three
primary

149
00:05:38,754 –> 00:05:38,775
[bruno_caron]: m

150
00:05:40,329 –> 00:05:40,409
[paul_tyler]: you

151
00:05:40,393 –> 00:05:40,515
[bruno_caron]: yeh

152
00:05:40,790 –> 00:05:42,213
[paul_tyler]: victors for retirement

153
00:05:41,895 –> 00:05:42,197
[bruno_caron]: oh

154
00:05:42,253 –> 00:05:46,641
[paul_tyler]: planning where does social security fit is
that the social security the starting point for

155
00:05:46,962 –> 00:05:50,087
[paul_tyler]: eighty percent of decisions ninety do you
have a sense

156
00:05:51,004 –> 00:05:51,304
[martha_shedden]: you know

157
00:05:51,534 –> 00:05:51,555
[bruno_caron]: m

158
00:05:52,486 –> 00:05:56,393
[martha_shedden]: i strongly feel personally it should be
the very first decision

159
00:05:55,875 –> 00:05:56,157
[bruno_caron]: oh

160
00:05:57,224 –> 00:05:58,474
[martha_shedden]: um m

161
00:05:59,085 –> 00:05:59,105
[bruno_caron]: m

162
00:05:59,626 –> 00:06:05,008
[martha_shedden]: we’re eligible at age sixty two with
the technology we have

163
00:06:04,905 –> 00:06:05,207
[bruno_caron]: oh

164
00:06:05,068 –> 00:06:06,931
[martha_shedden]: we can help people start planning

165
00:06:06,855 –> 00:06:07,057
[bruno_caron]: oh

166
00:06:06,991 –> 00:06:08,493
[martha_shedden]: for retirement in their fifties

167
00:06:08,160 –> 00:06:08,408
[paul_tyler]: oh

168
00:06:09,374 –> 00:06:11,008
[martha_shedden]: um so security

169
00:06:11,454 –> 00:06:11,475
[bruno_caron]: m

170
00:06:11,640 –> 00:06:12,143
[paul_tyler]: oh

171
00:06:12,284 –> 00:06:12,564
[martha_shedden]: to me

172
00:06:12,675 –> 00:06:12,997
[bruno_caron]: oh

173
00:06:13,325 –> 00:06:18,394
[martha_shedden]: is like an annuity it is a
guaranteed monthly amount with a cost of living

174
00:06:18,454 –> 00:06:27,214
[martha_shedden]: adjustment we’ve been paying into that program
all of our working lives and um m

175
00:06:27,825 –> 00:06:35,586
[martha_shedden]: that is something we can build all
the other retirement pieces around there’s not too

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[martha_shedden]: many other unless you have defined benefit
pensions but it is smart to get that

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[martha_shedden]: set and then if you’re trying to
delay collecting what other funds what other

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[martha_shedden]: assets can you use um m so
it’s a puzzle bruno and i were talking

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[martha_shedden]: about that it is

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[martha_shedden]: a very very tricky puzzle to um
set up those lifetime income streams and so

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[martha_shedden]: that you are withdrawing from your funds
possibly using equity in your home paul like

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[martha_shedden]: you you mentioned m to create the
most tax efficient um

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[martha_shedden]: m level of of finances people people
are looking for that security that that monthly

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[martha_shedden]: check and that security that they’re going
to be okay throughout the retirement years that’s

188
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[martha_shedden]: i feel it’s really the starting point

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[bruno_caron]: wonderful i mean if you were to
start let’s say with a very basic case

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[bruno_caron]: sixty five year old couple they want
to retire they have assets and to paul’s

191
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[bruno_caron]: point i mean they all you know
think about their housing health care and and

192
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[bruno_caron]: all of those other very important buckets
how do frame social security in terms of

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[bruno_caron]: the big considerations you mentioned money you
kind of leave on the table you know

194
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[bruno_caron]: that inflation protection what are those those
major considerations or in other words how do

195
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[bruno_caron]: you frame the problem for them in
terms of you now making that the decision

196
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[bruno_caron]: on when to elect so security

197
00:08:28,625 –> 00:08:35,879
[martha_shedden]: yeah well i think a lot of
people um do not realize how much money

198
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[martha_shedden]: is at

199
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[bruno_caron]: oh

200
00:08:36,359 –> 00:08:38,423
[martha_shedden]: stake over their lifetimes that

201
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[bruno_caron]: yeah

202
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[martha_shedden]: was

203
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[bruno_caron]: yeah

204
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[martha_shedden]: the biggest thing that

205
00:08:39,255 –> 00:08:39,617
[bruno_caron]: yes

206
00:08:39,365 –> 00:08:43,692
[martha_shedden]: hit me when i first started learning
about it i mean the average recipient this

207
00:08:43,792 –> 00:08:51,856
[martha_shedden]: year we’ll receive about twenty thousand a
year they live another twenty or thirty years

208
00:08:51,956 –> 00:08:54,883
[martha_shedden]: it’s three to five hundred six hundred
thousand

209
00:08:54,525 –> 00:08:54,772
[bruno_caron]: oh

210
00:08:55,344 –> 00:08:56,266
[martha_shedden]: we commonly

211
00:08:56,325 –> 00:08:56,569
[bruno_caron]: oh

212
00:08:56,327 –> 00:08:57,429
[martha_shedden]: work with couples who are

213
00:08:57,403 –> 00:08:57,465
[bruno_caron]: ah

214
00:08:57,489 –> 00:09:04,495
[martha_shedden]: collecting in the millions so this is
it should be thought of as an asset

215
00:09:06,034 –> 00:09:14,680
[martha_shedden]: it is many people’s it’s the bulk
of many retires income and retirement and it’s

216
00:09:14,921 –> 00:09:23,589
[martha_shedden]: often more than they may even have
currently in their investment portfolios so um that

217
00:09:23,789 –> 00:09:27,676
[martha_shedden]: claiming age especially with couples uno you
mentioned that

218
00:09:28,179 –> 00:09:28,695
[bruno_caron]: hm

219
00:09:28,537 –> 00:09:37,174
[martha_shedden]: couples need to plan this decision together
because there are opportunities for spouses m if

220
00:09:37,434 –> 00:09:45,267
[martha_shedden]: one has significantly lower based benefit amount
they would be collecting based on their spouses

221
00:09:45,387 –> 00:09:51,097
[martha_shedden]: earnings rather than their own they would
collect the higher of the two their all

222
00:09:51,198 –> 00:09:56,091
[martha_shedden]: spouses are eligible to collect the spousal
benefit that’s up to fifty percent of your

223
00:09:56,191 –> 00:09:56,652
[martha_shedden]: spouses

224
00:09:57,075 –> 00:09:57,356
[bruno_caron]: oh

225
00:09:58,096 –> 00:10:08,205
[martha_shedden]: p i a their base amount so
the other critical aspect for or couples and

226
00:10:08,265 –> 00:10:15,302
[martha_shedden]: this comes into life insurance is that
survivor benefit the survivor of a couple inherits

227
00:10:16,184 –> 00:10:21,875
[martha_shedden]: larger of the two benefits so really
critical for people

228
00:10:22,027 –> 00:10:22,067
[bruno_caron]: m

229
00:10:22,035 –> 00:10:22,656
[martha_shedden]: approaching

230
00:10:22,734 –> 00:10:22,755
[bruno_caron]: m

231
00:10:22,917 –> 00:10:23,077
[martha_shedden]: their

232
00:10:22,980 –> 00:10:23,000
[paul_tyler]: a

233
00:10:23,197 –> 00:10:27,624
[martha_shedden]: sixties to plan for this i can’t
emphasize how you need to plan for it

234
00:10:27,865 –> 00:10:34,619
[martha_shedden]: early it’s commonly you know the full
retirement age is between six and sixty seven

235
00:10:34,699 –> 00:10:39,998
[martha_shedden]: but as you probably understand a lot
of people think their full retirement age

236
00:10:39,975 –> 00:10:41,085
[bruno_caron]: oh

237
00:10:40,059 –> 00:10:44,404
[martha_shedden]: when they would get one hundred per
cent of their benefit is sixty five because

238
00:10:44,424 –> 00:10:49,751
[martha_shedden]: they equate that with with medic care
um but the most you get is not

239
00:10:49,851 –> 00:10:56,076
[martha_shedden]: until seventy so there’s there’s a lot
of decision making that that can allow you

240
00:10:56,137 –> 00:10:57,602
[martha_shedden]: to optimize that income

241
00:10:59,212 –> 00:11:02,017
[paul_tyler]: martha how do you feel about factoring
and health care

242
00:11:02,205 –> 00:11:02,225
[bruno_caron]: m

243
00:11:02,618 –> 00:11:07,446
[paul_tyler]: or say say health span use somebody
else’s language health

244
00:11:07,284 –> 00:11:07,446
[martha_shedden]: oh

245
00:11:07,746 –> 00:11:15,013
[paul_tyler]: health span of a cup when timing
the one they take retirement when the

246
00:11:15,144 –> 00:11:15,285
[martha_shedden]: well

247
00:11:15,295 –> 00:11:15,436
[paul_tyler]: yeah

248
00:11:15,325 –> 00:11:15,486
[martha_shedden]: that

249
00:11:16,770 –> 00:11:17,118
[paul_tyler]: oh

250
00:11:16,904 –> 00:11:18,807
[martha_shedden]: that’s a really good question paul because

251
00:11:18,885 –> 00:11:19,111
[bruno_caron]: oh

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00:11:18,927 –> 00:11:26,602
[martha_shedden]: the and we consider maximum life expectancy
so we work with our clients to really

253
00:11:27,455 –> 00:11:27,758
[martha_shedden]: zero

254
00:11:27,855 –> 00:11:27,875
[bruno_caron]: m

255
00:11:28,021 –> 00:11:30,365
[martha_shedden]: in on you want

256
00:11:30,435 –> 00:11:30,636
[bruno_caron]: oh

257
00:11:30,505 –> 00:11:31,467
[martha_shedden]: to plan

258
00:11:31,604 –> 00:11:31,725
[bruno_caron]: yeah

259
00:11:31,607 –> 00:11:36,355
[martha_shedden]: for the maximum age you can live
you don’t want to run

260
00:11:36,219 –> 00:11:36,240
[paul_tyler]: m

261
00:11:36,435 –> 00:11:42,936
[martha_shedden]: out of money from any of your
sources that longevity risk is what you’re trying

262
00:11:43,057 –> 00:11:48,211
[martha_shedden]: to you know watch out for and
so

263
00:11:49,365 –> 00:11:50,715
[bruno_caron]: yeah

264
00:11:49,914 –> 00:11:52,017
[martha_shedden]: the analysis we provide

265
00:11:52,005 –> 00:11:52,605
[bruno_caron]: yeah

266
00:11:52,677 –> 00:11:54,780
[martha_shedden]: takes into account it can look at

267
00:11:55,140 –> 00:11:55,401
[paul_tyler]: oh

268
00:11:55,380 –> 00:12:01,708
[martha_shedden]: it can examine many different combinations of
life expectancy

269
00:12:01,785 –> 00:12:01,805
[bruno_caron]: m

270
00:12:01,848 –> 00:12:10,399
[martha_shedden]: for couples and it’s not it’s not
average you don’t you don’t want to underestimate

271
00:12:10,110 –> 00:12:10,311
[paul_tyler]: yeah

272
00:12:10,419 –> 00:12:12,261
[martha_shedden]: your life expectancy you may not

273
00:12:12,264 –> 00:12:12,285
[bruno_caron]: m

274
00:12:12,501 –> 00:12:15,045
[martha_shedden]: die when you think you’re going to
die so

275
00:12:15,372 –> 00:12:16,594
[paul_tyler]: and if i die how long

276
00:12:16,605 –> 00:12:16,625
[bruno_caron]: m

277
00:12:17,055 –> 00:12:19,419
[paul_tyler]: do i plan to stay dead yes

278
00:12:19,305 –> 00:12:19,685
[bruno_caron]: yeah

279
00:12:19,354 –> 00:12:22,198
[martha_shedden]: oh yeah

280
00:12:23,486 –> 00:12:23,626
[paul_tyler]: you’re

281
00:12:23,524 –> 00:12:23,726
[martha_shedden]: yeah

282
00:12:23,686 –> 00:12:24,267
[paul_tyler]: right martha

283
00:12:23,947 –> 00:12:26,846
[martha_shedden]: i you know a lot

284
00:12:26,834 –> 00:12:26,895
[bruno_caron]: uh

285
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[martha_shedden]: of people

286
00:12:27,825 –> 00:12:27,845
[bruno_caron]: m

287
00:12:28,110 –> 00:12:28,890
[paul_tyler]: oh

288
00:12:28,349 –> 00:12:28,830
[martha_shedden]: they want

289
00:12:28,734 –> 00:12:28,755
[bruno_caron]: h

290
00:12:29,011 –> 00:12:29,953
[martha_shedden]: a break even

291
00:12:29,895 –> 00:12:30,057
[bruno_caron]: oh

292
00:12:30,390 –> 00:12:30,831
[paul_tyler]: oh

293
00:12:30,935 –> 00:12:33,381
[martha_shedden]: we’re struggling with this on our software
because

294
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[bruno_caron]: yeah

295
00:12:34,380 –> 00:12:34,683
[paul_tyler]: oh

296
00:12:35,214 –> 00:12:38,239
[martha_shedden]: you know you see those charges for
if i start at sixty two i’m going

297
00:12:38,279 –> 00:12:42,806
[martha_shedden]: to get this for this long i’m
started seventy it’ll be this but that’s not

298
00:12:42,926 –> 00:12:51,124
[martha_shedden]: really an accurate decision making point for
so security that’s only one person one lifetime

299
00:12:51,030 –> 00:12:51,414
[paul_tyler]: yeah

300
00:12:51,244 –> 00:12:51,885
[martha_shedden]: for couples

301
00:12:51,615 –> 00:12:51,902
[bruno_caron]: oh

302
00:12:51,985 –> 00:12:57,330
[martha_shedden]: there’s so much more involved um and
i haven’t even mentioned you know couples with

303
00:12:57,410 –> 00:12:59,673
[martha_shedden]: a younger spouse there there

304
00:12:59,520 –> 00:13:00,510
[paul_tyler]: oh

305
00:12:59,753 –> 00:13:03,478
[martha_shedden]: are ple where one spouse is may
be ten years younger and they may have

306
00:13:03,558 –> 00:13:09,979
[martha_shedden]: minor children when they retire so there
are so many personal rules and strategies that

307
00:13:10,059 –> 00:13:11,322
[martha_shedden]: affect that decision

308
00:13:11,640 –> 00:13:11,820
[paul_tyler]: yeah

309
00:13:11,985 –> 00:13:13,065
[bruno_caron]: yeah

310
00:13:12,201 –> 00:13:15,128
[paul_tyler]: martha i know a few people in
that category not

311
00:13:15,195 –> 00:13:15,375
[bruno_caron]: um

312
00:13:15,348 –> 00:13:16,150
[paul_tyler]: thankfully not me

313
00:13:16,136 –> 00:13:18,068
[martha_shedden]: he oh

314
00:13:18,444 –> 00:13:18,465
[bruno_caron]: m

315
00:13:18,816 –> 00:13:19,177
[paul_tyler]: thankfully

316
00:13:19,176 –> 00:13:19,216
[bruno_caron]: a

317
00:13:19,217 –> 00:13:19,397
[paul_tyler]: not me

318
00:13:21,975 –> 00:13:29,728
[bruno_caron]: so you mentioned longevity risk which you
know is definitely a topic that comes up

319
00:13:29,928 –> 00:13:37,801
[bruno_caron]: on many of our many of our
our episode um how how do you how

320
00:13:37,841 –> 00:13:42,349
[bruno_caron]: do you view this how do you
explain that to you know to individuals or

321
00:13:42,829 –> 00:13:49,981
[bruno_caron]: couples who are in the midst of
free tiring and explaining that whole that whole

322
00:13:50,682 –> 00:13:55,871
[bruno_caron]: longevity risk and that longevity aspect because
you just you just mentioned that you know

323
00:13:56,071 –> 00:14:00,599
[bruno_caron]: a return on investment is one way
to look at it but that’s that’s that’s

324
00:14:00,679 –> 00:14:04,746
[bruno_caron]: not necessarily the dynamic here there’s an
unknown

325
00:14:04,617 –> 00:14:04,637
[martha_shedden]: h

326
00:14:04,926 –> 00:14:09,915
[bruno_caron]: element how do you deal with that
and how do you explain that to two

327
00:14:10,879 –> 00:14:12,527
[bruno_caron]: your clients and other retires

328
00:14:13,664 –> 00:14:19,695
[martha_shedden]: well it’s all it’s all about showing
them the numbers and that’s

329
00:14:19,515 –> 00:14:19,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

330
00:14:20,236 –> 00:14:24,643
[martha_shedden]: one of the aspects that i love
so much i’m such a number person and

331
00:14:24,723 –> 00:14:34,105
[martha_shedden]: such a problem solver and there is
nothing more satisfying than helping helping people make

332
00:14:34,165 –> 00:14:42,118
[martha_shedden]: this large financial decision with the software
and the analysis and the charts and tables

333
00:14:42,219 –> 00:14:48,114
[martha_shedden]: our software creates we can show them
they can ask us any question at if

334
00:14:48,335 –> 00:14:52,451
[martha_shedden]: i live this long and my spouse
dies at this age what does that look

335
00:14:52,551 –> 00:14:58,079
[martha_shedden]: like we can show them the difference
in lifetime amount the difference in annual and

336
00:14:58,139 –> 00:15:06,245
[martha_shedden]: monthly amount and they and those comparisons
then they’re able to make that decision is

337
00:15:06,325 –> 00:15:12,868
[martha_shedden]: this worth it to me is it
worth it too to wait so i feel

338
00:15:13,049 –> 00:15:20,066
[martha_shedden]: like the visual and the review of
the output from the analysis is what really

339
00:15:20,166 –> 00:15:25,439
[martha_shedden]: really brings that home because they can
see it in dollars in today’s dollars

340
00:15:25,875 –> 00:15:26,359
[bruno_caron]: he’s in

341
00:15:26,444 –> 00:15:31,481
[martha_shedden]: and they can ask themselves how much
does that matter to me is it worth

342
00:15:31,562 –> 00:15:31,622
[martha_shedden]: it

343
00:15:37,095 –> 00:15:39,045
[bruno_caron]: oh

344
00:15:38,241 –> 00:15:39,624
[paul_tyler]: we we as an industry martha are

345
00:15:39,555 –> 00:15:39,761
[bruno_caron]: oh

346
00:15:39,664 –> 00:15:46,125
[paul_tyler]: always kind of focused on and people
to delay retirement have you ever recommended to

347
00:15:46,185 –> 00:15:48,948
[paul_tyler]: file early maybe you tell us a
story or two if you if you have

348
00:15:49,008 –> 00:15:49,329
[paul_tyler]: done that

349
00:15:52,246 –> 00:15:57,518
[martha_shedden]: yes there are often that’s a really
good question there are many many people who

350
00:15:57,639 –> 00:15:59,062
[martha_shedden]: need to file early

351
00:15:59,190 –> 00:15:59,313
[paul_tyler]: ye

352
00:16:00,435 –> 00:16:06,628
[martha_shedden]: they are not able to keep working
they may have helped real health issues that

353
00:16:07,002 –> 00:16:07,164
[paul_tyler]: ah

354
00:16:07,069 –> 00:16:14,654
[martha_shedden]: do indicate a shorter life span so
that’s why we talk about making the optimal

355
00:16:14,734 –> 00:16:21,439
[martha_shedden]: decision it’s not all about maximizing your
lifetime income it’s making the optimal decision for

356
00:16:21,519 –> 00:16:31,415
[martha_shedden]: your circumstances um m so it’s i
don’t know that i’ve ever recommended it but

357
00:16:31,758 –> 00:16:41,255
[martha_shedden]: it’s it’s all about understanding your personal
circumstances don’t just claim early because you’re neighbor

358
00:16:41,656 –> 00:16:46,009
[martha_shedden]: your cousin you know people said take
the money invest it you can get more

359
00:16:45,870 –> 00:16:46,112
[paul_tyler]: yeah

360
00:16:46,089 –> 00:16:51,531
[martha_shedden]: on your returns if you take the
money and invest i mean become educated and

361
00:16:51,671 –> 00:17:01,327
[martha_shedden]: know what your now what your personal
rules and options are i think i

362
00:17:01,425 –> 00:17:01,607
[bruno_caron]: oh

363
00:17:01,447 –> 00:17:08,660
[martha_shedden]: just read yesterday that over half of
retires collect before their full retirement age which

364
00:17:08,740 –> 00:17:19,103
[martha_shedden]: is sixty six to sixty seven and
um m i think quarter of men collect

365
00:17:19,184 –> 00:17:19,948
[martha_shedden]: at sixty two

366
00:17:20,979 –> 00:17:21,000
[paul_tyler]: m

367
00:17:21,764 –> 00:17:25,889
[martha_shedden]: that fifty percent a quarter of the
men collected sixty two and about a third

368
00:17:25,969 –> 00:17:31,289
[martha_shedden]: of the women collected sixty two now
that’s changing it as people become more and

369
00:17:31,330 –> 00:17:36,672
[martha_shedden]: more aware they’re waiting but still only
i think five percent of men and seven

370
00:17:36,712 –> 00:17:42,460
[martha_shedden]: percent of women actually wait till seventy
but many many can’t many can’t afford to

371
00:17:42,540 –> 00:17:42,761
[martha_shedden]: wake

372
00:17:43,300 –> 00:17:43,321
[paul_tyler]: a

373
00:17:45,024 –> 00:17:45,045
[martha_shedden]: o

374
00:17:45,321 –> 00:17:50,951
[paul_tyler]: those those are really interesting stats so
you know we’ve got a society

375
00:17:50,745 –> 00:17:50,967
[bruno_caron]: yes

376
00:17:51,812 –> 00:17:51,832
[paul_tyler]: i

377
00:17:51,855 –> 00:17:52,078
[bruno_caron]: oh

378
00:17:51,912 –> 00:17:58,710
[paul_tyler]: know bruno collectively making the optimally bad
decision um martha i mean how many what

379
00:17:58,770 –> 00:18:03,982
[paul_tyler]: percent do you think are correctly making
that early option to early making early

380
00:18:03,904 –> 00:18:04,534
[martha_shedden]: yeah

381
00:18:04,022 –> 00:18:10,889
[paul_tyler]: decision what per cent just don’t understand
and then what per cent just got bad

382
00:18:10,949 –> 00:18:11,349
[paul_tyler]: advice

383
00:18:13,964 –> 00:18:19,595
[martha_shedden]: i think the majority i mean we’ve
there statistics that show that ninety six percent

384
00:18:19,755 –> 00:18:21,779
[martha_shedden]: of retires have not made the

385
00:18:21,864 –> 00:18:21,885
[bruno_caron]: m

386
00:18:21,880 –> 00:18:25,785
[martha_shedden]: optima claiming decision only about four per
cent have

387
00:18:25,558 –> 00:18:26,445
[bruno_caron]: m m

388
00:18:26,446 –> 00:18:29,069
[martha_shedden]: meaning that they’re they’re leaving money on
the table

389
00:18:29,055 –> 00:18:29,300
[bruno_caron]: oh

390
00:18:29,189 –> 00:18:31,171
[martha_shedden]: an average of over a hundred and
ten

391
00:18:31,155 –> 00:18:32,175
[bruno_caron]: oh

392
00:18:31,271 –> 00:18:40,605
[martha_shedden]: thousand dollars per household over their lifetimes
um m o i that is that’s one

393
00:18:40,665 –> 00:18:45,230
[martha_shedden]: of my biggest passions is to get
the word out there that there is help

394
00:18:45,471 –> 00:18:49,719
[martha_shedden]: to be had for this we not
only train advisors

395
00:18:49,425 –> 00:18:49,445
[bruno_caron]: m

396
00:18:50,140 –> 00:18:55,169
[martha_shedden]: to help their clients but we also
have in house r s sas to do

397
00:18:55,250 –> 00:19:03,212
[martha_shedden]: analysis and it it’s so much worth
your time and effort to

398
00:19:03,795 –> 00:19:04,097
[bruno_caron]: yes

399
00:19:04,214 –> 00:19:09,741
[martha_shedden]: reach out and and have find someone
who’s you know educated on social

400
00:19:09,585 –> 00:19:09,605
[bruno_caron]: m

401
00:19:09,781 –> 00:19:10,763
[martha_shedden]: security to help you

402
00:19:13,036 –> 00:19:18,184
[bruno_caron]: at makes that makes perfect sense and
it gets me to my kind of next

403
00:19:18,264 –> 00:19:25,937
[bruno_caron]: topic which is very very current is
is inflation and think that a lot of

404
00:19:27,500 –> 00:19:35,854
[bruno_caron]: you know a lot of lot of
the headlines are around inflation and in trance

405
00:19:35,914 –> 00:19:44,248
[bruno_caron]: carriers are a little shy of hovering
any lifetime income that is inflation protected or

406
00:19:44,889 –> 00:19:51,399
[bruno_caron]: has some some inflation feature which led
just to you now as individuals probably the

407
00:19:51,520 –> 00:20:00,595
[bruno_caron]: only lever or mechanism that we or
option available is is social security how do

408
00:20:00,655 –> 00:20:04,463
[bruno_caron]: you how do you view this how
do you address this and how do you

409
00:20:04,804 –> 00:20:08,070
[bruno_caron]: how do you strategize this for for
individuals

410
00:20:10,374 –> 00:20:16,324
[martha_shedden]: um well you’re you’re so correct it
is really the one of the few that

411
00:20:16,464 –> 00:20:21,071
[martha_shedden]: is still inflation adjusted and there’s a
good and the bad side to that i

412
00:20:21,132 –> 00:20:22,033
[martha_shedden]: mean as we just saw

413
00:20:22,065 –> 00:20:22,226
[bruno_caron]: yah

414
00:20:22,153 –> 00:20:23,436
[martha_shedden]: that week the current

415
00:20:23,214 –> 00:20:23,235
[bruno_caron]: h

416
00:20:23,816 –> 00:20:29,969
[martha_shedden]: the new upcoming cost delivering adjustment is
eight point seven cent but that means inflation

417
00:20:30,069 –> 00:20:32,484
[martha_shedden]: is going up and um

418
00:20:32,505 –> 00:20:32,727
[bruno_caron]: yeah

419
00:20:33,085 –> 00:20:37,411
[martha_shedden]: and there are you know there are
those that don’t feel the way that cost

420
00:20:37,511 –> 00:20:45,091
[martha_shedden]: of living adjustment is calculated accurately reflects
the costs of retiring but given all of

421
00:20:45,151 –> 00:20:51,586
[martha_shedden]: that it’s still better than nothing and
i will

422
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:52,230
[paul_tyler]: oh

423
00:20:51,707 –> 00:20:58,546
[martha_shedden]: take advantage of that question bruno to
to make a clarification that people misunderstand about

424
00:20:58,586 –> 00:21:06,447
[martha_shedden]: that cost of living adjustment um m
that was released last week and it will

425
00:21:06,547 –> 00:21:13,098
[martha_shedden]: start applying to individuals benefits in january
of twenty twenty three now that does not

426
00:21:13,198 –> 00:21:17,676
[martha_shedden]: mean you should race to start collecting
so you miss out on it

427
00:21:18,548 –> 00:21:18,568
[bruno_caron]: h

428
00:21:18,794 –> 00:21:19,576
[martha_shedden]: in reality

429
00:21:19,674 –> 00:21:19,695
[bruno_caron]: m

430
00:21:19,957 –> 00:21:25,030
[martha_shedden]: once you turn sixty two the cost
of living adjustment is applied to

431
00:21:25,095 –> 00:21:25,336
[bruno_caron]: oh

432
00:21:25,150 –> 00:21:29,882
[martha_shedden]: your base benefit every year whether you
are collecting or not

433
00:21:30,285 –> 00:21:30,570
[bruno_caron]: oh

434
00:21:30,824 –> 00:21:32,265
[martha_shedden]: don’t use that

435
00:21:32,424 –> 00:21:32,947
[bruno_caron]: m yeah

436
00:21:33,286 –> 00:21:34,147
[martha_shedden]: that desperate

437
00:21:33,885 –> 00:21:33,905
[bruno_caron]: m

438
00:21:34,207 –> 00:21:37,251
[martha_shedden]: you know and then i’m going to
take advantage and get that eight point seven

439
00:21:37,291 –> 00:21:39,213
[martha_shedden]: per cent you will get that eventually

440
00:21:38,715 –> 00:21:38,957
[bruno_caron]: yeah

441
00:21:42,045 –> 00:21:42,368
[martha_shedden]: waiting

442
00:21:42,677 –> 00:21:42,882
[bruno_caron]: yeah

443
00:21:43,294 –> 00:21:44,988
[martha_shedden]: as well as collecting now

444
00:21:45,082 –> 00:21:46,705
[paul_tyler]: so it’s interesting

445
00:21:46,635 –> 00:21:46,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

446
00:21:47,386 –> 00:21:50,171
[paul_tyler]: at least the last i think martha
you’re

447
00:21:49,935 –> 00:21:50,257
[bruno_caron]: oh

448
00:21:50,191 –> 00:21:55,379
[paul_tyler]: the expert i think the last five
or ten years of c p i adjustments

449
00:21:55,560 –> 00:21:55,900
[paul_tyler]: ave been

450
00:21:55,815 –> 00:21:56,016
[bruno_caron]: oh

451
00:21:56,201 –> 00:21:56,842
[paul_tyler]: related to

452
00:21:57,165 –> 00:21:57,945
[bruno_caron]: yeah

453
00:21:57,643 –> 00:22:02,271
[paul_tyler]: or driven i believe by health rising
health care cost which is going to really

454
00:22:02,311 –> 00:22:02,872
[paul_tyler]: hit seniors

455
00:22:02,715 –> 00:22:02,959
[bruno_caron]: oh

456
00:22:03,152 –> 00:22:09,583
[paul_tyler]: right so and immediately you know you
got one or two percent increase your midicare

457
00:22:09,623 –> 00:22:13,349
[paul_tyler]: premiums went up the same okay what
it really matter this time this time it

458
00:22:13,389 –> 00:22:20,180
[paul_tyler]: sounds like medicarepremiums are going to stay
flat um because inflations hitting other parts of

459
00:22:20,200 –> 00:22:23,404
[paul_tyler]: the economy do you think this is
going to wash out is still neutral for

460
00:22:23,484 –> 00:22:26,306
[paul_tyler]: seniors or do you think it’s it’ll
actually

461
00:22:26,115 –> 00:22:26,135
[bruno_caron]: m

462
00:22:26,387 –> 00:22:28,629
[paul_tyler]: will be a little bit of a
benefit here

463
00:22:29,965 –> 00:22:36,244
[martha_shedden]: i think i think most retires are
going to see this it’s quite significant now

464
00:22:37,888 –> 00:22:38,008
[martha_shedden]: over

465
00:22:37,995 –> 00:22:38,075
[bruno_caron]: oh

466
00:22:38,068 –> 00:22:39,732
[martha_shedden]: the last forty years i mean when

467
00:22:40,785 –> 00:22:41,047
[bruno_caron]: oh

468
00:22:40,964 –> 00:22:43,992
[martha_shedden]: i’ve been working in this field for
about twelve years

469
00:22:43,995 –> 00:22:44,399
[bruno_caron]: oh

470
00:22:44,092 –> 00:22:50,284
[martha_shedden]: and there were several years of zero
cost of living adjustment but m to that

471
00:22:50,404 –> 00:22:56,615
[martha_shedden]: topic specifically you know last year the
medic are premiums went up so high and

472
00:22:56,655 –> 00:23:05,457
[martha_shedden]: that was basically based on one individual
drug that was over wasn’t calculated quite correctly

473
00:23:06,138 –> 00:23:06,739
[martha_shedden]: this year

474
00:23:06,915 –> 00:23:07,116
[bruno_caron]: oh

475
00:23:07,080 –> 00:23:09,934
[martha_shedden]: the premium is going down and i’ve

476
00:23:09,840 –> 00:23:10,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

477
00:23:10,014 –> 00:23:16,101
[martha_shedden]: never heard of that happening before so
not only are retires getting that cost of

478
00:23:16,161 –> 00:23:23,427
[martha_shedden]: living adjustment from sol security their medic
are premiums are usually deducted from their

479
00:23:23,307 –> 00:23:23,451
[bruno_caron]: yeah

480
00:23:23,587 –> 00:23:29,572
[martha_shedden]: socurity benefit so that’s going to increase
to because it went down instead of up

481
00:23:29,673 –> 00:23:36,817
[martha_shedden]: this year but yes the health care
costs that’s the biggest unknown

482
00:23:36,840 –> 00:23:37,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah

483
00:23:36,957 –> 00:23:39,482
[martha_shedden]: for retires and that’s the scariest

484
00:23:40,020 –> 00:23:40,261
[paul_tyler]: yeah

485
00:23:40,484 –> 00:23:48,802
[martha_shedden]: topic talk to deal with so whatever
you can do to get that guaranteed income

486
00:23:49,424 –> 00:23:55,180
[martha_shedden]: i mean we we look at all
kinds of different avenues for that you mentioned

487
00:23:55,882 –> 00:24:03,603
[martha_shedden]: m real estate paul and m we’re
partner with the national reverse mortgage lenders association

488
00:24:03,764 –> 00:24:13,405
[martha_shedden]: because i have a good friend and
those two go hand in hand i reverse

489
00:24:13,485 –> 00:24:14,668
[martha_shedden]: mortgages or home

490
00:24:14,685 –> 00:24:14,705
[bruno_caron]: m

491
00:24:14,808 –> 00:24:22,520
[martha_shedden]: equity conversion mortgages are another topic that
retiring should be educated on it

492
00:24:22,575 –> 00:24:22,797
[bruno_caron]: oh

493
00:24:22,620 –> 00:24:25,568
[martha_shedden]: could be a wonderful option

494
00:24:25,610 –> 00:24:25,651
[bruno_caron]: h

495
00:24:25,708 –> 00:24:26,471
[martha_shedden]: for many people

496
00:24:26,364 –> 00:24:26,385
[bruno_caron]: h

497
00:24:26,571 –> 00:24:30,502
[martha_shedden]: with the rising costs and the equity
that many people have in there

498
00:24:30,867 –> 00:24:30,969
[bruno_caron]: ah

499
00:24:31,264 –> 00:24:32,232
[martha_shedden]: their homes and there’s

500
00:24:32,204 –> 00:24:32,265
[bruno_caron]: ah

501
00:24:32,292 –> 00:24:35,037
[martha_shedden]: a lot of ways to to use
that equity

502
00:24:38,665 –> 00:24:43,613
[bruno_caron]: no thank you that that makes that
makes perfect sense and i think on on

503
00:24:43,753 –> 00:24:45,176
[bruno_caron]: that note on the whole

504
00:24:45,630 –> 00:24:45,951
[paul_tyler]: yeah

505
00:24:46,137 –> 00:24:48,261
[bruno_caron]: you know he heal care expense

506
00:24:48,079 –> 00:24:48,219
[paul_tyler]: yeah

507
00:24:48,341 –> 00:24:54,832
[bruno_caron]: is i think we i agree it’s
a it’s a major unknown for four retires

508
00:24:55,673 –> 00:25:00,241
[bruno_caron]: um and i really want to underscore
one of

509
00:25:00,450 –> 00:25:00,714
[paul_tyler]: oh

510
00:25:00,722 –> 00:25:05,810
[bruno_caron]: the things you just said in your
ens was that because of that unknown you

511
00:25:05,870 –> 00:25:07,914
[bruno_caron]: want to maximize that

512
00:25:08,104 –> 00:25:08,325
[martha_shedden]: yeah

513
00:25:08,575 –> 00:25:11,740
[bruno_caron]: lifetime income or that income from from
social security

514
00:25:11,370 –> 00:25:12,390
[paul_tyler]: yeah

515
00:25:12,514 –> 00:25:12,534
[martha_shedden]: m

516
00:25:12,702 –> 00:25:12,885
[paul_tyler]: yes

517
00:25:12,962 –> 00:25:13,283
[bruno_caron]: which is

518
00:25:14,640 –> 00:25:15,300
[paul_tyler]: yeah

519
00:25:15,552 –> 00:25:23,585
[bruno_caron]: sometimes other advisers or other professionals would
use lifetime income the other way around where

520
00:25:23,725 –> 00:25:27,211
[bruno_caron]: you would say you know lifetime income
is not liquid therefore it’s

521
00:25:27,150 –> 00:25:27,840
[paul_tyler]: yeah

522
00:25:27,311 –> 00:25:32,740
[bruno_caron]: not good for for health gave but
i really like the way you portrait it

523
00:25:32,820 –> 00:25:37,809
[bruno_caron]: and you put it out there is
you know the more income you have h

524
00:25:38,049 –> 00:25:41,855
[bruno_caron]: ou know the more you can deal
with health care expenses and not just that

525
00:25:42,216 –> 00:25:46,723
[bruno_caron]: one health care expense but health care
expenses through the rest of your life and

526
00:25:46,804 –> 00:25:47,144
[bruno_caron]: on top

527
00:25:47,137 –> 00:25:47,321
[martha_shedden]: right

528
00:25:47,204 –> 00:25:47,525
[bruno_caron]: of that

529
00:25:47,901 –> 00:25:48,084
[paul_tyler]: yeah

530
00:25:48,306 –> 00:25:52,112
[bruno_caron]: having more income allows you to rely
less on

531
00:25:52,080 –> 00:25:52,282
[paul_tyler]: ye

532
00:25:52,753 –> 00:25:58,024
[bruno_caron]: the rest of you portfolio to know
so that when you know when when that

533
00:25:59,186 –> 00:26:06,460
[bruno_caron]: catastrophe happens you’re in a bed and
position to to deal with it um so

534
00:26:07,802 –> 00:26:13,071
[bruno_caron]: do you want to expend a little
more on you know value on income within

535
00:26:13,171 –> 00:26:16,503
[bruno_caron]: that health care expend context

536
00:26:17,194 –> 00:26:25,267
[martha_shedden]: yes it’s it’s so critical that’s i
think that’s most retire is biggest fear and

537
00:26:25,327 –> 00:26:30,956
[martha_shedden]: it’s what our clients worry about so
much and so like you just stated anything

538
00:26:31,016 –> 00:26:39,387
[martha_shedden]: you can do to maximize that monthly
dream of income i mean remember we’re just

539
00:26:39,448 –> 00:26:46,831
[martha_shedden]: talking about it’s like an annuity um
m there are ole planning for retirement should

540
00:26:47,974 –> 00:26:50,356
[martha_shedden]: looking for all avenues

541
00:26:50,025 –> 00:26:50,230
[bruno_caron]: oh

542
00:26:50,476 –> 00:26:55,521
[martha_shedden]: that they can they can use for
that many people don’t have long term care

543
00:26:55,701 –> 00:26:57,803
[martha_shedden]: medic hair doesn’t doesn’t cover that

544
00:26:58,680 –> 00:26:58,700
[paul_tyler]: m

545
00:26:58,764 –> 00:27:03,710
[martha_shedden]: ah and it’s just a horrible thought
to reach you know the end of our

546
00:27:03,830 –> 00:27:05,333
[martha_shedden]: years and be faced with

547
00:27:05,850 –> 00:27:07,059
[paul_tyler]: oh yeah

548
00:27:07,306 –> 00:27:09,792
[martha_shedden]: extremely high costs in

549
00:27:10,224 –> 00:27:10,245
[bruno_caron]: m

550
00:27:10,794 –> 00:27:16,067
[martha_shedden]: be thinking ahead where can i where
can i turn if i need that at

551
00:27:16,107 –> 00:27:19,472
[martha_shedden]: that time and that’s why i that’s
why i kind of veered off track and

552
00:27:19,532 –> 00:27:26,564
[martha_shedden]: mentioned that home equity conversion workes because
there are ways to plan for these really

553
00:27:26,684 –> 00:27:31,633
[martha_shedden]: extraordinary health you know and medical costs
that could hit us later

554
00:27:32,350 –> 00:27:32,532
[paul_tyler]: yeah

555
00:27:32,924 –> 00:27:34,595
[martha_shedden]: it’s very it’s very scary

556
00:27:35,700 –> 00:27:41,049
[paul_tyler]: i was at a risk management medi
offsite yesterday it was interesting i don’t know

557
00:27:42,151 –> 00:27:42,391
[paul_tyler]: there’s

558
00:27:42,615 –> 00:27:42,898
[bruno_caron]: oh

559
00:27:42,952 –> 00:27:45,416
[paul_tyler]: there’s a downer of meeting now

560
00:27:46,185 –> 00:27:47,835
[bruno_caron]: oh

561
00:27:47,179 –> 00:27:47,740
[paul_tyler]: this is it it’s

562
00:27:48,465 –> 00:27:48,485
[bruno_caron]: m

563
00:27:48,601 –> 00:27:54,291
[paul_tyler]: re living in some very unique times
and i may butcher the statistics but something

564
00:27:54,371 –> 00:28:00,102
[paul_tyler]: like i think this is one of
three years in the last hunt or hunter

565
00:28:00,162 –> 00:28:08,163
[paul_tyler]: plus where stocks equities down hundred i’m
trying to think that what was stock i

566
00:28:08,203 –> 00:28:10,225
[paul_tyler]: guess it was a stock market hundred
years ago sure

567
00:28:12,375 –> 00:28:12,637
[bruno_caron]: yeah

568
00:28:12,687 –> 00:28:12,807
[paul_tyler]: the

569
00:28:12,828 –> 00:28:12,849
[martha_shedden]: i

570
00:28:13,368 –> 00:28:14,429
[paul_tyler]: this is like one of the

571
00:28:14,895 –> 00:28:15,180
[bruno_caron]: oh

572
00:28:15,410 –> 00:28:20,058
[paul_tyler]: three years where both stocks and bonds
have gone down at the same time wait

573
00:28:20,098 –> 00:28:24,265
[paul_tyler]: a second you know you know we’ve
been telling our clients everything about our retirement

574
00:28:24,325 –> 00:28:28,211
[paul_tyler]: planning most of it comes down to
not stock comes down as a location

575
00:28:28,395 –> 00:28:28,597
[bruno_caron]: yeah

576
00:28:28,552 –> 00:28:31,016
[paul_tyler]: seventy ve don’t know seventy

577
00:28:30,914 –> 00:28:31,055
[martha_shedden]: yeah

578
00:28:31,076 –> 00:28:32,098
[paul_tyler]: thirty sixty forty

579
00:28:31,965 –> 00:28:31,985
[bruno_caron]: m

580
00:28:32,138 –> 00:28:32,959
[paul_tyler]: what is it that’s the big

581
00:28:32,925 –> 00:28:33,106
[bruno_caron]: yeah

582
00:28:33,059 –> 00:28:38,629
[paul_tyler]: paul s the biggest decision you can
make um arguably you know one camp can

583
00:28:38,709 –> 00:28:46,802
[paul_tyler]: say look inflation is today we’re experiencing
it’s it’s caused by two unique exogets events

584
00:28:46,882 –> 00:28:48,966
[paul_tyler]: we had this worldwide pandemic and now
we’ve got this

585
00:28:48,885 –> 00:28:48,905
[bruno_caron]: m

586
00:28:49,046 –> 00:28:54,393
[paul_tyler]: crazy country you know trying to like
blow you know bomb a country out of

587
00:28:54,433 –> 00:28:56,374
[paul_tyler]: existence okay and shut down the oil

588
00:28:56,235 –> 00:28:56,397
[martha_shedden]: right

589
00:28:56,454 –> 00:29:02,701
[paul_tyler]: fields there’s another campesisyou know the supply
chain crisis is big

590
00:29:02,595 –> 00:29:02,615
[bruno_caron]: m

591
00:29:03,623 –> 00:29:03,823
[paul_tyler]: you know

592
00:29:03,855 –> 00:29:04,082
[bruno_caron]: oh

593
00:29:03,863 –> 00:29:09,773
[paul_tyler]: we have a lot of demographic changes
across the world where people are retiring out

594
00:29:09,813 –> 00:29:18,024
[paul_tyler]: of critical positions and inflation continue m
what point martha do you start to reset

595
00:29:18,204 –> 00:29:24,094
[paul_tyler]: your the calculus behind those optimizational factors
like does this have to persist six months

596
00:29:24,174 –> 00:29:28,984
[paul_tyler]: twelve months eighteen months before you say
you know i did these plans for you

597
00:29:29,024 –> 00:29:32,857
[paul_tyler]: bruno but let’s let’s re think your
plan

598
00:29:35,154 –> 00:29:37,640
[martha_shedden]: well that’s a really good question and
again

599
00:29:37,496 –> 00:29:37,577
[bruno_caron]: oh

600
00:29:37,720 –> 00:29:45,777
[martha_shedden]: that comes back to the ability to
do these analysis as i mentioned we work

601
00:29:45,837 –> 00:29:50,496
[martha_shedden]: with people in their fifties to plan
the best security

602
00:29:50,130 –> 00:29:50,393
[paul_tyler]: oh

603
00:29:50,797 –> 00:29:52,624
[martha_shedden]: and tax strategy withdrawal

604
00:29:52,170 –> 00:29:52,950
[paul_tyler]: yeah

605
00:29:52,745 –> 00:29:53,387
[martha_shedden]: strategies

606
00:29:54,930 –> 00:29:55,174
[paul_tyler]: oh

607
00:29:55,405 –> 00:29:56,656
[martha_shedden]: and then

608
00:29:57,249 –> 00:29:57,270
[paul_tyler]: m

609
00:29:57,855 –> 00:30:05,005
[martha_shedden]: we can re evaluate that very very
easily along the way until they reach whatever

610
00:30:05,165 –> 00:30:11,449
[martha_shedden]: age it is they’re going to start
collecting and so an advisor out there who

611
00:30:11,770 –> 00:30:17,204
[martha_shedden]: takes this really listic comprehensive view

612
00:30:17,085 –> 00:30:17,347
[bruno_caron]: oh

613
00:30:18,086 –> 00:30:23,454
[martha_shedden]: a retirement plan it’s not a one
time deal it’s something you do at least

614
00:30:23,695 –> 00:30:33,945
[martha_shedden]: annually if not more given today’s circumstances
and you able to it no go in

615
00:30:34,005 –> 00:30:41,717
[martha_shedden]: a slightly different direction if you need
to so it’s um m the financial professionals

616
00:30:41,878 –> 00:30:43,801
[martha_shedden]: out there who understand

617
00:30:43,665 –> 00:30:43,867
[bruno_caron]: yeah

618
00:30:44,342 –> 00:30:51,829
[martha_shedden]: how complicated retirement financial planning is and
are taking this on are those who can

619
00:30:52,130 –> 00:30:56,989
[martha_shedden]: really really help their clients and give
them that peace of mind i think um

620
00:30:57,703 –> 00:31:02,391
[martha_shedden]: m stay with them you know along
the way it’s not a one of one

621
00:31:02,451 –> 00:31:02,972
[martha_shedden]: shot deal

622
00:31:03,707 –> 00:31:06,969
[bruno_caron]: yeah as opposed to social security election

623
00:31:07,380 –> 00:31:07,882
[paul_tyler]: uh

624
00:31:07,690 –> 00:31:08,171
[bruno_caron]: that that

625
00:31:08,063 –> 00:31:08,083
[paul_tyler]: h

626
00:31:08,291 –> 00:31:09,833
[bruno_caron]: is you know a one

627
00:31:09,744 –> 00:31:09,906
[martha_shedden]: yeah

628
00:31:09,894 –> 00:31:11,156
[bruno_caron]: shot deal and

629
00:31:11,619 –> 00:31:11,640
[paul_tyler]: h

630
00:31:12,057 –> 00:31:18,987
[bruno_caron]: hence you know the value of your
your services where i mean you have to

631
00:31:19,487 –> 00:31:23,491
[bruno_caron]: you know you have one chance you
have to think about all of those things

632
00:31:23,571 –> 00:31:31,373
[bruno_caron]: through before you elect how do you
how do you go about you know explaining

633
00:31:31,453 –> 00:31:34,501
[bruno_caron]: that the dynamic to to your clients

634
00:31:35,794 –> 00:31:36,034
[martha_shedden]: well

635
00:31:36,015 –> 00:31:36,035
[bruno_caron]: m

636
00:31:36,134 –> 00:31:43,687
[martha_shedden]: there’s there’s actually two options bruno where
if someone and this is particularly

637
00:31:43,665 –> 00:31:43,846
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:31:43,847 –> 00:31:49,189
[martha_shedden]: pertinent given the last couple of years
in the pandemic and end shift in everyone’s

639
00:31:49,395 –> 00:31:49,621
[bruno_caron]: oh

640
00:31:50,985 –> 00:31:51,647
[martha_shedden]: employment

641
00:31:51,330 –> 00:31:51,572
[paul_tyler]: oh

642
00:31:52,128 –> 00:31:55,577
[martha_shedden]: and how we’re all working now so

643
00:31:55,905 –> 00:31:56,126
[bruno_caron]: oh

644
00:31:56,399 –> 00:31:57,062
[martha_shedden]: once you when

645
00:31:57,094 –> 00:31:57,195
[bruno_caron]: yeah

646
00:31:57,122 –> 00:31:58,546
[martha_shedden]: you first claim

647
00:31:58,590 –> 00:31:59,550
[paul_tyler]: yeah

648
00:31:59,088 –> 00:32:06,216
[martha_shedden]: and you start collecting you have twelve
months to withdraw that application if something changes

649
00:32:06,297 –> 00:32:12,716
[martha_shedden]: or you change your mind you pay
back what you’ve received but without any interest

650
00:32:13,559 –> 00:32:20,783
[martha_shedden]: and then you get the slates wipe
clean you can claim later at any time

651
00:32:20,655 –> 00:32:20,856
[bruno_caron]: oh

652
00:32:21,684 –> 00:32:23,367
[martha_shedden]: um i have a really

653
00:32:23,370 –> 00:32:23,673
[paul_tyler]: oh

654
00:32:23,407 –> 00:32:23,587
[martha_shedden]: good

655
00:32:23,526 –> 00:32:23,546
[bruno_caron]: h

656
00:32:23,748 –> 00:32:25,030
[martha_shedden]: story about that

657
00:32:24,834 –> 00:32:24,855
[bruno_caron]: m

658
00:32:25,110 –> 00:32:26,052
[martha_shedden]: that i’ll share but i

659
00:32:26,055 –> 00:32:26,255
[bruno_caron]: oh

660
00:32:26,172 –> 00:32:29,138
[martha_shedden]: want to touch on this second option
that people don’t know

661
00:32:29,445 –> 00:32:29,686
[bruno_caron]: oh

662
00:32:30,161 –> 00:32:32,948
[martha_shedden]: is if you claimed early between sixty

663
00:32:32,805 –> 00:32:33,106
[bruno_caron]: oh

664
00:32:33,028 –> 00:32:36,598
[martha_shedden]: two and your full retirement age and
you reach your full

665
00:32:36,585 –> 00:32:36,605
[bruno_caron]: m

666
00:32:36,658 –> 00:32:37,621
[martha_shedden]: retirement age

667
00:32:38,325 –> 00:32:38,570
[bruno_caron]: oh

668
00:32:38,744 –> 00:32:41,894
[martha_shedden]: you can you can voluntarily ask the
social

669
00:32:41,715 –> 00:32:41,735
[bruno_caron]: m

670
00:32:41,954 –> 00:32:44,562
[martha_shedden]: security administration to suspend your benefit

671
00:32:44,355 –> 00:32:44,658
[bruno_caron]: oh

672
00:32:45,424 –> 00:32:46,967
[martha_shedden]: and it will start growing

673
00:32:46,815 –> 00:32:46,977
[bruno_caron]: oh

674
00:32:47,108 –> 00:32:51,659
[martha_shedden]: from those delayed retirement credits we haven’t
gotten into many of the details about slow

675
00:32:51,820 –> 00:32:55,606
[martha_shedden]: security but your benefit our benefits increase

676
00:32:55,485 –> 00:32:55,686
[bruno_caron]: oh

677
00:32:55,826 –> 00:32:56,607
[martha_shedden]: every month we

678
00:32:56,854 –> 00:32:56,955
[bruno_caron]: yeah

679
00:32:57,187 –> 00:32:58,068
[martha_shedden]: wait to claim

680
00:32:57,825 –> 00:32:58,067
[bruno_caron]: yah

681
00:32:58,228 –> 00:32:59,610
[martha_shedden]: and from full retirement age

682
00:32:59,683 –> 00:32:59,805
[bruno_caron]: yah

683
00:32:59,750 –> 00:33:00,731
[martha_shedden]: to seventy that

684
00:33:00,765 –> 00:33:01,147
[bruno_caron]: oh

685
00:33:01,171 –> 00:33:02,913
[martha_shedden]: totals up to eight per cent a
year

686
00:33:03,585 –> 00:33:03,605
[bruno_caron]: m

687
00:33:04,064 –> 00:33:07,096
[martha_shedden]: someone who claimed at sixty two spends

688
00:33:06,765 –> 00:33:06,966
[bruno_caron]: yah

689
00:33:07,196 –> 00:33:08,241
[martha_shedden]: at their full retirement

690
00:33:08,274 –> 00:33:08,295
[bruno_caron]: h

691
00:33:08,341 –> 00:33:09,948
[martha_shedden]: age and is able financially

692
00:33:09,405 –> 00:33:09,627
[bruno_caron]: oh

693
00:33:10,029 –> 00:33:11,554
[martha_shedden]: to do that they can

694
00:33:11,985 –> 00:33:12,427
[bruno_caron]: oh

695
00:33:12,136 –> 00:33:15,163
[martha_shedden]: potentially get a thirty two to twenty
four per

696
00:33:15,255 –> 00:33:15,536
[bruno_caron]: oh

697
00:33:15,263 –> 00:33:18,290
[martha_shedden]: cent increase in their benefit by waiting
to collect

698
00:33:18,315 –> 00:33:18,335
[bruno_caron]: m

699
00:33:18,370 –> 00:33:19,232
[martha_shedden]: again til seventy

700
00:33:19,644 –> 00:33:19,665
[bruno_caron]: m

701
00:33:20,094 –> 00:33:21,004
[martha_shedden]: um m

702
00:33:21,165 –> 00:33:21,447
[bruno_caron]: oh

703
00:33:21,384 –> 00:33:22,766
[martha_shedden]: i have a group of women

704
00:33:23,003 –> 00:33:23,145
[bruno_caron]: yeah

705
00:33:24,069 –> 00:33:24,750
[martha_shedden]: that i’m friends

706
00:33:24,495 –> 00:33:24,778
[bruno_caron]: oh

707
00:33:24,813 –> 00:33:24,916
[paul_tyler]: ah

708
00:33:24,850 –> 00:33:29,117
[martha_shedden]: with and one of them had started
collecting she heard me talking about

709
00:33:29,004 –> 00:33:29,025
[bruno_caron]: m

710
00:33:29,198 –> 00:33:30,901
[martha_shedden]: all the nuances of

711
00:33:30,915 –> 00:33:31,316
[bruno_caron]: oh

712
00:33:31,081 –> 00:33:36,704
[martha_shedden]: spousal and there was a rule at
sed

713
00:33:36,675 –> 00:33:36,855
[bruno_caron]: oh

714
00:33:36,865 –> 00:33:39,633
[martha_shedden]: out but she met the age requirement

715
00:33:39,345 –> 00:33:41,295
[bruno_caron]: oh

716
00:33:39,713 –> 00:33:44,928
[martha_shedden]: for that rule and she withdrew her
application

717
00:33:45,795 –> 00:33:45,815
[bruno_caron]: m

718
00:33:45,984 –> 00:33:51,033
[martha_shedden]: she was collecting on her own benefit
paid back the money that she had collected

719
00:33:51,755 –> 00:33:57,438
[martha_shedden]: and was able to collect a spousal
benefit based on her husband’s earnings for four

720
00:33:57,598 –> 00:34:05,328
[martha_shedden]: years and due to a combination of
waiting and the delay credit and the work

721
00:34:05,409 –> 00:34:11,619
[martha_shedden]: that she’s doing now she has her
own coffee business her benefit is going to

722
00:34:11,839 –> 00:34:20,256
[martha_shedden]: increase threefold from what she it’s getting
when she first started that’s those are the

723
00:34:20,276 –> 00:34:21,661
[martha_shedden]: kind of things that are just so

724
00:34:22,272 –> 00:34:22,434
[bruno_caron]: yes

725
00:34:22,644 –> 00:34:23,545
[martha_shedden]: misunderstood

726
00:34:23,175 –> 00:34:23,195
[bruno_caron]: m

727
00:34:23,646 –> 00:34:27,033
[martha_shedden]: and so hidden that that we try
to help people with

728
00:34:27,495 –> 00:34:27,779
[bruno_caron]: oh

729
00:34:28,001 –> 00:34:32,087
[paul_tyler]: i have two last questions for you
and one for from an advisor perspective

730
00:34:31,764 –> 00:34:31,785
[bruno_caron]: m

731
00:34:32,168 –> 00:34:38,037
[paul_tyler]: one from a i guess client perspective
from advisor sectiveyoue got an interesting practice martha

732
00:34:38,097 –> 00:34:42,704
[paul_tyler]: so you’ve got a podcast right got
an association you do a lot of training

733
00:34:43,205 –> 00:34:50,678
[paul_tyler]: you have a team behind you if
i’m trying to really focus on being a

734
00:34:50,738 –> 00:34:54,085
[paul_tyler]: social security expert in this field what
should i do to be

735
00:34:54,045 –> 00:34:54,226
[bruno_caron]: oh

736
00:34:54,125 –> 00:34:55,788
[paul_tyler]: successful over the next five years

737
00:34:57,914 –> 00:35:04,740
[martha_shedden]: well we’re trying to make that as
easy as possible for our analyst because many

738
00:35:04,800 –> 00:35:10,501
[martha_shedden]: people go through our course they become
an r s s but like i was

739
00:35:10,561 –> 00:35:15,592
[martha_shedden]: saying to bruno before it’s a full
time effort to stay up on this topic

740
00:35:16,264 –> 00:35:18,588
[martha_shedden]: and to know all the nuances and
be

741
00:35:18,654 –> 00:35:18,675
[bruno_caron]: m

742
00:35:18,668 –> 00:35:19,349
[martha_shedden]: doing the

743
00:35:19,395 –> 00:35:19,415
[bruno_caron]: m

744
00:35:19,610 –> 00:35:22,876
[martha_shedden]: analysis so we offer a back office

745
00:35:22,905 –> 00:35:22,925
[bruno_caron]: m

746
00:35:22,996 –> 00:35:29,358
[martha_shedden]: support not only to our analyst but
to any inancial professional out there who wants

747
00:35:29,459 –> 00:35:30,040
[martha_shedden]: help with their

748
00:35:29,925 –> 00:35:30,146
[bruno_caron]: oh

749
00:35:30,120 –> 00:35:32,816
[martha_shedden]: clients so security cases

750
00:35:33,165 –> 00:35:33,915
[bruno_caron]: oh

751
00:35:33,624 –> 00:35:35,951
[martha_shedden]: and we do that we partner with

752
00:35:36,675 –> 00:35:36,695
[bruno_caron]: m

753
00:35:37,274 –> 00:35:44,597
[martha_shedden]: advisers in any way that makes the
most sense financially and you know just if

754
00:35:44,657 –> 00:35:51,298
[martha_shedden]: they want us to actually um working
with the client individually if they want to

755
00:35:51,358 –> 00:35:54,924
[martha_shedden]: be involved they’re not so and then
for our analysts

756
00:35:55,082 –> 00:35:55,183
[paul_tyler]: ah

757
00:35:55,084 –> 00:35:59,712
[martha_shedden]: who are registered members the annual fee
includes our

758
00:35:59,850 –> 00:36:00,070
[paul_tyler]: oh

759
00:35:59,852 –> 00:36:01,222
[martha_shedden]: software and clouds

760
00:36:02,025 –> 00:36:02,267
[bruno_caron]: oh

761
00:36:02,154 –> 00:36:02,835
[martha_shedden]: resources

762
00:36:02,239 –> 00:36:02,280
[paul_tyler]: ah

763
00:36:02,915 –> 00:36:05,701
[martha_shedden]: continuing education marketing tools

764
00:36:05,325 –> 00:36:06,315
[bruno_caron]: oh

765
00:36:07,394 –> 00:36:09,940
[martha_shedden]: podcasts the know so just

766
00:36:11,445 –> 00:36:11,465
[bruno_caron]: m

767
00:36:11,927 –> 00:36:14,200
[martha_shedden]: we’re trying to make it a one
stop shop

768
00:36:14,895 –> 00:36:15,177
[bruno_caron]: oh

769
00:36:15,134 –> 00:36:18,091
[martha_shedden]: or anyone advisors and clients

770
00:36:17,805 –> 00:36:17,825
[bruno_caron]: m

771
00:36:19,376 –> 00:36:23,472
[martha_shedden]: are consumers i should say anybody who
needs help so security

772
00:36:24,180 –> 00:36:27,826
[paul_tyler]: okay then just sort of got advice

773
00:36:27,724 –> 00:36:27,744
[martha_shedden]: m

774
00:36:28,367 –> 00:36:28,587
[paul_tyler]: okay

775
00:36:28,695 –> 00:36:28,715
[bruno_caron]: m

776
00:36:29,389 –> 00:36:31,873
[paul_tyler]: to people who like my wife

777
00:36:32,025 –> 00:36:32,895
[bruno_caron]: oh

778
00:36:32,073 –> 00:36:35,739
[paul_tyler]: opened the for one case statement say
what happened

779
00:36:35,346 –> 00:36:35,446
[bruno_caron]: so

780
00:36:36,642 –> 00:36:37,484
[paul_tyler]: call fidelity

781
00:36:38,595 –> 00:36:38,839
[bruno_caron]: uh

782
00:36:38,787 –> 00:36:40,912
[paul_tyler]: final what went wrong

783
00:36:40,960 –> 00:36:40,981
[bruno_caron]: h

784
00:36:40,992 –> 00:36:41,213
[paul_tyler]: here

785
00:36:41,454 –> 00:36:44,115
[bruno_caron]: m oh oh

786
00:36:44,284 –> 00:36:50,934
[martha_shedden]: that’s don’t panic it’s hard it’s difficult
then i’m

787
00:36:50,985 –> 00:36:51,206
[bruno_caron]: oh

788
00:36:50,994 –> 00:36:58,797
[martha_shedden]: right there with with her i mean
it’s and i just i’m grateful for the

789
00:36:58,857 –> 00:37:04,937
[martha_shedden]: understanding i have of the options i
have personally it just makes me even more

790
00:37:05,137 –> 00:37:05,658
[martha_shedden]: desperate

791
00:37:05,655 –> 00:37:05,675
[bruno_caron]: m

792
00:37:05,799 –> 00:37:10,649
[martha_shedden]: to spread the word of making the
most of your self security

793
00:37:12,285 –> 00:37:14,925
[bruno_caron]: oh

794
00:37:12,393 –> 00:37:19,065
[martha_shedden]: looking at other financial instruments you can
use like we said my fall back is

795
00:37:19,125 –> 00:37:23,550
[martha_shedden]: the equity in my home i mean
i’m in california and i know that years

796
00:37:23,630 –> 00:37:30,855
[martha_shedden]: from now if i need that i’ll
have that so that gives me comfort being

797
00:37:30,945 –> 00:37:31,815
[bruno_caron]: oh

798
00:37:31,015 –> 00:37:36,690
[martha_shedden]: educated and informed takes away a lot
of the anxiety we have such a sense

799
00:37:36,910 –> 00:37:43,838
[martha_shedden]: of relief and appreciation and just you
know people know what they’re going to collect

800
00:37:43,879 –> 00:37:51,740
[martha_shedden]: from social security they can move on
from there um it’s a very very powerful

801
00:37:52,664 –> 00:37:55,412
[martha_shedden]: decision that they’re making and that we’re
helping them with

802
00:37:56,744 –> 00:37:58,994
[paul_tyler]: bruno any final thoughts final questions

803
00:38:00,100 –> 00:38:08,113
[bruno_caron]: no other than an thank you i
think the entire aspect on on income probably

804
00:38:08,133 –> 00:38:10,256
[bruno_caron]: you mentioned it oh my wife’s opening
my

805
00:38:10,260 –> 00:38:10,963
[paul_tyler]: oh

806
00:38:10,557 –> 00:38:16,046
[bruno_caron]: four one case statement what’s going on
here and you know how much you have

807
00:38:16,266 –> 00:38:16,747
[bruno_caron]: how much you’re

808
00:38:16,710 –> 00:38:17,012
[paul_tyler]: yes

809
00:38:16,867 –> 00:38:17,148
[bruno_caron]: worth

810
00:38:18,360 –> 00:38:18,541
[paul_tyler]: yeah

811
00:38:18,590 –> 00:38:24,755
[bruno_caron]: that’s one side of the story how
much ink does that generate that’s n now

812
00:38:25,095 –> 00:38:30,264
[bruno_caron]: that’s an aspect as if not more
important than how much how much you have

813
00:38:30,384 –> 00:38:38,820
[bruno_caron]: and how do you juggle the two
are extremely extremely it’s extremely important so so

814
00:38:38,941 –> 00:38:42,630
[bruno_caron]: no definitely appreciate the discussion martha

815
00:38:43,110 –> 00:38:44,051
[paul_tyler]: yeah martha

816
00:38:43,885 –> 00:38:44,026
[martha_shedden]: oh

817
00:38:44,292 –> 00:38:47,837
[paul_tyler]: we’ll put the show put the show
on you now links is but where should

818
00:38:48,318 –> 00:38:52,185
[paul_tyler]: people want to reach out to advisors
want to reach out to learn about more

819
00:38:52,445 –> 00:38:54,208
[paul_tyler]: about your offering

820
00:38:54,094 –> 00:38:54,318
[martha_shedden]: oh

821
00:38:54,408 –> 00:38:55,995
[paul_tyler]: or follow what’s the best way

822
00:38:58,105 –> 00:39:01,213
[martha_shedden]: well i’ll give you three emails

823
00:39:01,575 –> 00:39:01,779
[bruno_caron]: oh

824
00:39:02,155 –> 00:39:03,879
[martha_shedden]: if you want to reach out to
me personally

825
00:39:03,405 –> 00:39:03,425
[bruno_caron]: m

826
00:39:04,179 –> 00:39:06,765
[martha_shedden]: it’s martha nara

827
00:39:06,885 –> 00:39:07,905
[bruno_caron]: my

828
00:39:07,026 –> 00:39:09,391
[martha_shedden]: dot org n a r f

829
00:39:09,645 –> 00:39:09,867
[bruno_caron]: oh

830
00:39:09,752 –> 00:39:13,040
[martha_shedden]: a dot org and then for information

831
00:39:12,690 –> 00:39:12,890
[paul_tyler]: yeah

832
00:39:13,240 –> 00:39:15,099
[martha_shedden]: on our course as

833
00:39:15,479 –> 00:39:15,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

834
00:39:15,555 –> 00:39:15,756
[bruno_caron]: oh

835
00:39:15,796 –> 00:39:24,437
[martha_shedden]: um imply in fo at r s
s a dot com and for help with

836
00:39:24,577 –> 00:39:31,686
[martha_shedden]: client cases that’s help r s s
a dot com um you can go to

837
00:39:31,767 –> 00:39:37,356
[martha_shedden]: narcadotorg or r s s a dot
com and learn a lot more there’s a

838
00:39:37,436 –> 00:39:38,378
[martha_shedden]: lot of resources

839
00:39:37,905 –> 00:39:38,127
[bruno_caron]: oh

840
00:39:38,538 –> 00:39:40,762
[martha_shedden]: on their frequently ask questions

841
00:39:41,205 –> 00:39:41,486
[bruno_caron]: oh

842
00:39:42,535 –> 00:39:46,460
[martha_shedden]: just reach out to us whatever questions
or information you need

843
00:39:46,800 –> 00:39:46,981
[paul_tyler]: okay

844
00:39:47,625 –> 00:39:47,826
[bruno_caron]: oh

845
00:39:47,664 –> 00:39:49,975
[paul_tyler]: excellent look at the notes will have
the links to click on

846
00:39:50,835 –> 00:39:52,755
[bruno_caron]: oh

847
00:39:52,630 –> 00:39:55,875
[paul_tyler]: no thank you martha thanks so much
enjoyed

848
00:39:55,695 –> 00:39:57,378
[bruno_caron]: m oh

849
00:39:57,618 –> 00:40:00,603
[paul_tyler]: enjoyed being on your show and thank
you for coming and joining us

850
00:40:00,585 –> 00:40:00,807
[bruno_caron]: oh

851
00:40:01,064 –> 00:40:03,889
[paul_tyler]: and again thank our listeners for you
know all your

852
00:40:03,984 –> 00:40:04,005
[bruno_caron]: m

853
00:40:04,149 –> 00:40:09,404
[paul_tyler]: support feed back keep it coming and
join us again next week for another episode

854
00:40:09,465 –> 00:40:11,525
[paul_tyler]: of that annuity show thanks

855
00:40:13,224 –> 00:40:13,591
[martha_shedden]: thank you

856
00:40:13,955 –> 00:40:14,238
[bruno_caron]: thank you

Nick DesrocherEpisode 167: Answering Social Security Questions in Today’s Environment with Martha Shedden
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Episode 166: Keeping Annuity Regulations Rational with Kim O’Brien

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As is often the case in this industry, what is new is old. Today, we’re seeing regulation re-emerge that the industry successfully challenged over 10 years ago. Kim O’Brien, Chief Executive Officer of the Federation of Americans for Consumer Choice joins us to talk about the new regs and court challenges her group currently leads. We also take the opportunity to get her perspective on a number of industry trends.

Links mentioned:

https://facchoice.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-o-brien-4483a55/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,155 –> 00:00:06,122
[paul_tyler]: hi this is paul tyler and welcome
to a nother episode of that annuity show

2
00:00:06,302 –> 00:00:07,344
[paul_tyler]: ramsey good to see you

3
00:00:08,169 –> 00:00:08,993
[ramsey_d_smith]: always glad to be here

4
00:00:09,415 –> 00:00:10,881
[paul_tyler]: an you tell us where you are
today

5
00:00:11,987 –> 00:00:12,928
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m in new york city

6
00:00:13,315 –> 00:00:13,596
[paul_tyler]: new york

7
00:00:13,448 –> 00:00:13,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

8
00:00:13,676 –> 00:00:13,897
[paul_tyler]: city

9
00:00:13,729 –> 00:00:14,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: back back

10
00:00:14,641 –> 00:00:14,862
[paul_tyler]: okay

11
00:00:14,810 –> 00:00:16,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: in my back and my adopted home
town

12
00:00:17,235 –> 00:00:18,156
[paul_tyler]: all right well

13
00:00:18,900 –> 00:00:20,186
[kim_o_brien]: start reading the news

14
00:00:20,195 –> 00:00:20,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

15
00:00:21,061 –> 00:00:22,584
[paul_tyler]: well it was a cut in california

16
00:00:22,027 –> 00:00:23,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

17
00:00:22,804 –> 00:00:28,393
[paul_tyler]: this morning but i’m now in new
york you know the after due i had

18
00:00:28,474 –> 00:00:34,924
[paul_tyler]: night fun in the middle row on
a red eye so i’m here but wouldn’t

19
00:00:34,964 –> 00:00:39,812
[paul_tyler]: miss this for the world we’ve got
just a great guest who’s had a tremendous

20
00:00:39,872 –> 00:00:44,620
[paul_tyler]: impact in the industry on like six
or seven different fronts and you know sometimes

21
00:00:44,661 –> 00:00:48,908
[paul_tyler]: ramsay i think why don’t we get
these people earlier but we do this today

22
00:00:48,948 –> 00:00:55,678
[paul_tyler]: we have kimobrian who’s chief executive officer
at the federation of americans for consumer choice

23
00:00:55,718 –> 00:00:58,663
[paul_tyler]: so kim welcome and maybe tell

24
00:00:58,700 –> 00:00:58,862
[kim_o_brien]: thank

25
00:00:58,703 –> 00:00:58,803
[paul_tyler]: us

26
00:00:58,922 –> 00:00:59,023
[kim_o_brien]: you

27
00:01:00,545 –> 00:01:04,432
[paul_tyler]: who you are what you’re doing and
then maybe give people your your back story

28
00:01:05,214 –> 00:01:10,143
[paul_tyler]: and i think stuff you’ve had really
fascinating career in this industry

29
00:01:11,680 –> 00:01:13,001
[kim_o_brien]: i’ve had a long one i don’t
know

30
00:01:13,245 –> 00:01:13,446
[paul_tyler]: uh

31
00:01:13,541 –> 00:01:14,923
[kim_o_brien]: it’s a fascinating

32
00:01:14,514 –> 00:01:14,535
[paul_tyler]: h

33
00:01:15,023 –> 00:01:15,143
[kim_o_brien]: but

34
00:01:15,075 –> 00:01:15,341
[paul_tyler]: oh

35
00:01:15,984 –> 00:01:18,946
[kim_o_brien]: when you get enough time in you
know you’ve got a lot of stuff going

36
00:01:19,086 –> 00:01:21,108
[kim_o_brien]: on but we have

37
00:01:21,016 –> 00:01:21,096
[paul_tyler]: ah

38
00:01:22,900 –> 00:01:24,763
[kim_o_brien]: he federation is very

39
00:01:24,885 –> 00:01:25,126
[paul_tyler]: yeah

40
00:01:24,903 –> 00:01:25,243
[kim_o_brien]: very

41
00:01:25,973 –> 00:01:26,115
[paul_tyler]: yeah

42
00:01:26,726 –> 00:01:33,337
[kim_o_brien]: absolutely focused on making sure that there’s
a level playing field for independent distribution that

43
00:01:33,417 –> 00:01:40,990
[kim_o_brien]: includes marketing organize ation that includes agencies
and agents we just believe fully that without

44
00:01:41,150 –> 00:01:42,332
[kim_o_brien]: a level playing field

45
00:01:42,315 –> 00:01:42,558
[paul_tyler]: oh

46
00:01:42,552 –> 00:01:45,738
[kim_o_brien]: you know the security people are wonderful
they

47
00:01:45,765 –> 00:01:45,785
[paul_tyler]: m

48
00:01:45,818 –> 00:01:50,025
[kim_o_brien]: all do a good job they do
what they do well but there are non

49
00:01:50,125 –> 00:01:56,055
[kim_o_brien]: security people out there that really understand
the insurance market and the insurance market and

50
00:01:56,095 –> 00:02:02,262
[kim_o_brien]: what we do is the fixed gare
ante products and the federation of americans for

51
00:02:02,322 –> 00:02:10,035
[kim_o_brien]: consumer choice really focuses on annuities fixed
annuities fixed life insurance and fixed long term

52
00:02:10,155 –> 00:02:13,887
[kim_o_brien]: care especially the long term care its
that are attached

53
00:02:14,445 –> 00:02:14,686
[paul_tyler]: oh

54
00:02:14,610 –> 00:02:21,167
[kim_o_brien]: the former two products so that is
what our focuses at the federation and we

55
00:02:21,247 –> 00:02:26,997
[kim_o_brien]: just want to make sure the consumers
have access to that insurance expert tis that

56
00:02:27,097 –> 00:02:33,987
[kim_o_brien]: agents have that is unique and and
probably not seen often enough in the securities

57
00:02:34,968 –> 00:02:39,816
[kim_o_brien]: industry and we want to make sure
that consumers have the choice of the advisor

58
00:02:39,917 –> 00:02:41,399
[kim_o_brien]: or the agent they want to work
with

59
00:02:46,472 –> 00:02:46,594
[paul_tyler]: yeah

60
00:02:46,770 –> 00:02:48,334
[kim_o_brien]: want me to give you a little
background

61
00:02:47,715 –> 00:02:48,258
[paul_tyler]: oh

62
00:02:48,474 –> 00:02:49,797
[kim_o_brien]: or add to that

63
00:02:49,826 –> 00:02:54,173
[paul_tyler]: well yeah i would say choice is
an interesting word it’s loaded right

64
00:02:54,170 –> 00:02:54,292
[kim_o_brien]: yeah

65
00:02:54,453 –> 00:03:00,263
[paul_tyler]: and um you know i just came
out and you didn’t say you were sort

66
00:03:00,303 –> 00:03:08,337
[paul_tyler]: of a leader in the industry the
last time the industry faced significant you know

67
00:03:08,417 –> 00:03:15,136
[paul_tyler]: regulatory changes in because was that was
that two thout thousand nine thousand ten came

68
00:03:15,237 –> 00:03:15,558
[paul_tyler]: correct

69
00:03:17,380 –> 00:03:22,188
[kim_o_brien]: well two thousand and nine and two
thousand and ten was the suit the first

70
00:03:22,509 –> 00:03:27,417
[kim_o_brien]: suitability model that was trying to replicate
the fine model

71
00:03:27,255 –> 00:03:27,945
[paul_tyler]: yeah

72
00:03:27,958 –> 00:03:32,265
[kim_o_brien]: and we were instrument and making sure
that it understood and it was informed

73
00:03:31,824 –> 00:03:31,845
[paul_tyler]: m

74
00:03:32,786 –> 00:03:38,796
[kim_o_brien]: and worked for the insurance side because
fine of course works very well for the

75
00:03:38,876 –> 00:03:43,768
[kim_o_brien]: security side so that started and then
we got hit with one fifty

76
00:03:43,845 –> 00:03:44,107
[paul_tyler]: yeah

77
00:03:43,909 –> 00:03:47,520
[kim_o_brien]: one a from the s c and
twenty ten yeah

78
00:03:46,606 –> 00:03:51,794
[paul_tyler]: yeah mammoth challenged in the in industry
and you were head of napa at that

79
00:03:51,854 –> 00:03:56,322
[paul_tyler]: point in time and it really you
brought i think the industry

80
00:03:56,197 –> 00:03:56,598
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

81
00:03:56,522 –> 00:04:05,739
[paul_tyler]: together and sort of one voice had
really you know had significant you know significant

82
00:04:05,859 –> 00:04:12,039
[paul_tyler]: impact on what the business looks like
today now fast forward to today it feels

83
00:04:12,119 –> 00:04:17,068
[paul_tyler]: like it’s a repeat of you know
that that two thousand nine to two thousand

84
00:04:17,148 –> 00:04:21,998
[paul_tyler]: leven time periods so i guess what’s
similar what’s different with the rogue tory structure

85
00:04:22,360 –> 00:04:24,870
[paul_tyler]: regulatory environment that you see today

86
00:04:27,140 –> 00:04:31,788
[kim_o_brien]: what’s different about the regulatory environment today
both at the state level and the federal

87
00:04:31,848 –> 00:04:36,375
[kim_o_brien]: level but i’ll stick with your point
paul about the federal level is that we

88
00:04:36,475 –> 00:04:44,669
[kim_o_brien]: have now another agency the third time
has inserted itself during one fifty one a

89
00:04:45,070 –> 00:04:50,801
[kim_o_brien]: it was the s c who wanted
fixed indexed annuities at the time they were

90
00:04:50,841 –> 00:04:53,887
[kim_o_brien]: called equity indextenuities and that was

91
00:04:53,895 –> 00:04:54,241
[paul_tyler]: yeah

92
00:04:54,588 –> 00:04:56,371
[kim_o_brien]: what my industry

93
00:04:56,115 –> 00:04:56,904
[paul_tyler]: ye

94
00:04:56,852 –> 00:05:00,237
[kim_o_brien]: we did wrong we called them equity
index and they really aren’t

95
00:05:00,353 –> 00:05:00,495
[paul_tyler]: yah

96
00:05:00,678 –> 00:05:07,069
[kim_o_brien]: equity index there because there’s not just
you know equity in there but we we

97
00:05:07,269 –> 00:05:09,092
[kim_o_brien]: we we to the fixed indexed

98
00:05:08,796 –> 00:05:08,897
[paul_tyler]: ah

99
00:05:09,172 –> 00:05:13,600
[kim_o_brien]: annuity and that was another movement just
to get the name changed so to get

100
00:05:13,660 –> 00:05:15,483
[kim_o_brien]: that understanding about the

101
00:05:15,504 –> 00:05:15,525
[paul_tyler]: m

102
00:05:15,583 –> 00:05:19,029
[kim_o_brien]: fixed aspect that guaranteed insurance aspect of
the product

103
00:05:19,644 –> 00:05:19,665
[paul_tyler]: m

104
00:05:19,870 –> 00:05:25,459
[kim_o_brien]: at the time it was the s
c that wanted to make sure that these

105
00:05:25,540 –> 00:05:30,928
[kim_o_brien]: were considered securities and that’s what we
fought and successfully won we fought it on

106
00:05:30,989 –> 00:05:35,456
[kim_o_brien]: many play and this is very similar
to the department of labor issue that we’re

107
00:05:35,496 –> 00:05:40,685
[kim_o_brien]: fighting right now at one fifty one
a we fought it both at the legislative

108
00:05:40,985 –> 00:05:49,378
[kim_o_brien]: level and also through the courts and
also through just individual impact from agents and

109
00:05:49,478 –> 00:05:53,224
[kim_o_brien]: agencies throughout the industry but we actually
want it

110
00:05:53,865 –> 00:05:54,090
[paul_tyler]: oh

111
00:05:54,105 –> 00:05:59,915
[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front which was where
napa took the lead with many carriers that

112
00:05:59,975 –> 00:06:05,645
[kim_o_brien]: were very supportive of the effort and
assisted us all along the way but we

113
00:06:05,765 –> 00:06:11,740
[kim_o_brien]: ended up getting as you know the
harken amendment in the dad frank bill which

114
00:06:12,120 –> 00:06:12,941
[kim_o_brien]: declaratively

115
00:06:12,555 –> 00:06:13,305
[paul_tyler]: oh

116
00:06:13,102 –> 00:06:15,284
[kim_o_brien]: said that fixed indexed annuities were not

117
00:06:15,340 –> 00:06:15,582
[bruno_caron]: oh

118
00:06:15,484 –> 00:06:21,892
[kim_o_brien]: securities so that was a huge wind
fast forward to the department they probably we’ve

119
00:06:21,912 –> 00:06:22,674
[kim_o_brien]: been dealing with this

120
00:06:22,875 –> 00:06:23,117
[paul_tyler]: oh

121
00:06:22,914 –> 00:06:29,144
[kim_o_brien]: the department since twenty ten on this
this is their third iteration um and on

122
00:06:29,224 –> 00:06:32,691
[kim_o_brien]: this front we’re suing fact suing

123
00:06:32,445 –> 00:06:32,710
[paul_tyler]: oh

124
00:06:33,072 –> 00:06:36,961
[kim_o_brien]: the department of labor but we also
have other trades that are working on efforts

125
00:06:36,924 –> 00:06:36,945
[paul_tyler]: m

126
00:06:37,061 –> 00:06:42,953
[kim_o_brien]: on the legislative front as well and
we promote those and we you know totally

127
00:06:43,034 –> 00:06:48,022
[kim_o_brien]: support those but we felt it was
important to file and file a law suit

128
00:06:48,142 –> 00:06:53,231
[kim_o_brien]: now one because we felt it was
important to let the doll know that we

129
00:06:53,331 –> 00:06:59,381
[kim_o_brien]: felt that they have overreached their authority
as an agency they were not given this

130
00:06:59,461 –> 00:07:00,803
[kim_o_brien]: authority from congress

131
00:07:00,825 –> 00:07:01,133
[paul_tyler]: oh

132
00:07:01,224 –> 00:07:06,813
[kim_o_brien]: through orissa which is required and we
also felt that the removal of what’s called

133
00:07:06,853 –> 00:07:10,880
[kim_o_brien]: the desert ladder which was a letter
that declaratively said that an

134
00:07:10,845 –> 00:07:11,109
[paul_tyler]: yeah

135
00:07:11,080 –> 00:07:14,426
[kim_o_brien]: agent insurance agent who sells an annuity

136
00:07:14,205 –> 00:07:14,507
[paul_tyler]: oh

137
00:07:14,646 –> 00:07:20,563
[kim_o_brien]: is not to be considered i’m shortening
it all down but it’s not to be

138
00:07:20,603 –> 00:07:26,914
[kim_o_brien]: considered an investment advisor or fiduciary and
we felt it was important to just step

139
00:07:27,034 –> 00:07:31,463
[kim_o_brien]: out early and get the d l
to under dan that they’ve got a law

140
00:07:31,624 –> 00:07:35,678
[kim_o_brien]: suit pending and we’re going to be
fighting them

141
00:07:35,995 –> 00:07:39,642
[paul_tyler]: excellent bruno carne our host just joined
us bruno welcome

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hey bruno

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[bruno_caron]: thank you

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[paul_tyler]: yeah and so

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[kim_o_brien]: bruno

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[paul_tyler]: yeah so

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[bruno_caron]: thank you

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[paul_tyler]: so

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[bruno_caron]: welcome

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[paul_tyler]: so so maybe we just dial in
a little bit on the last suit because

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[paul_tyler]: that’s one of the things i’ve been
read and following in the paper maybe tell

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[paul_tyler]: us about what you’re challenging where and
where is the law suit in terms of

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[paul_tyler]: challenging the federal federal regulations that been
enacted

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[kim_o_brien]: well we

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: we filed in texas we incorporated

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: ourselves in texas in anticipation of this

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[paul_tyler]: yes

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[kim_o_brien]: because we knew the doll was not
going to quit even

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: after twenty sixteen fifth circuit decision um
the same staff has been there

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: since twenty ten the same staff we
meet with every time

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: and they

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: you know

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: kept coming forward with new rules and
so we knew that this was probably goin

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[kim_o_brien]: be likely so even though i’m situated
in phoenix we incorporated in texas uh understanding

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[kim_o_brien]: that we would probably be here

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: today and we are so we filed
we have submitted our brief we have three

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[kim_o_brien]: briefing three briefing scheduled

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: um and then an oral argument and
right now we’ve we’ve put our first brief

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[kim_o_brien]: in the d l has filed their
response brief um we get to file another

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[kim_o_brien]: brief they get to fill another brief
oh i misstated there’s only four briefs and

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[kim_o_brien]: then we have oral arguments and ural
arguments have now been pushed

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: out they originally scheduled for december fourteenth

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: but the d l has requested a
delay and everybody’s agreed and the magistrate has

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[kim_o_brien]: agreed so we’re now at liettaorl arguments
in january january eleventh

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[paul_tyler]: so so so the path to do
this i mean i’m a i am an

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[paul_tyler]: attorney but i don’t claim to be
one

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[kim_o_brien]: i’m not a lawyer

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[paul_tyler]: but

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[kim_o_brien]: either so

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[paul_tyler]: but i think

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[kim_o_brien]: i’m

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[paul_tyler]: here

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[kim_o_brien]: just

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[paul_tyler]: at

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[kim_o_brien]: not

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[paul_tyler]: this point so so you file state
i guess trial level is that right

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[kim_o_brien]: yes they call it

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[paul_tyler]: magistrate

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[kim_o_brien]: a magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: um

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[kim_o_brien]: right

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[paul_tyler]: you know i’m sure you’ll win it
gets a p

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[kim_o_brien]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: l at the pellet level in texas

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[kim_o_brien]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: goes to their supreme

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[kim_o_brien]: a

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[paul_tyler]: court and then i guess i will
go straight to the u s supreme court

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[paul_tyler]: is that correct

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[kim_o_brien]: that’s correct

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[paul_tyler]: and

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[kim_o_brien]: that’s the path um

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: we

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: we feel strongly on that will win
and i mentioned early before we recorded as

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: a ex year leader

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: i just got to believe in the
victory but if we don’t we know either

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[kim_o_brien]: party at the magistrate level will appeal

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: so we will be at the apellat
court right after the decision by the magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: and like you know again this is
asking a hard question you know or you

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[paul_tyler]: know eric would give you some rmarnrrgeneral
council would come up with a pretty clever

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[paul_tyler]: answer this how long do you think
this process runs is this a one year

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[paul_tyler]: two year three year process oh

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[kim_o_brien]: that is a good question and it’s
very hard courts are very hard on the

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[kim_o_brien]: magistrate we have and that our legal

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: litigation council understands because our litigation council
that we hired in dallas texas is very

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[kim_o_brien]: familiar with the texas court system and
they’re very familiar with this particular magistrate um

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: this magistrate

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: does not like to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: you know slow down he’s a very
efficient uh judicial judge and we think that

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[kim_o_brien]: we’ll get a decision out him i’ve
heard the lawyers tell us it probably expected

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[kim_o_brien]: in april is then we were in
appeal paul and that’s goin take so i

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[kim_o_brien]: think we’re in it for easily another
two years

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[ramsey_d_smith]: so can i ask a quick question
like what are the what are the differences

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[ramsey_d_smith]: in the the issues that are being
contested in this lawsuit versus the prior ones

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that you mentioned is is just is
it a full re play or or there

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[ramsey_d_smith]: some fundamental differences since since the prior
rounds

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[kim_o_brien]: yes i think so ramsey

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[kim_o_brien]: that was an excellent question we believe
that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: what they did when they were told
what they couldn’t do with the fifth circuit

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[kim_o_brien]: decision they just pretty much rearranged the
deck chairs on the titan and put this

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[kim_o_brien]: preamble in place that essentially

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[paul_tyler]: i

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[kim_o_brien]: re interpreted

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: new interpretation what they call a final
interpretation of the five part test which essentially

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[kim_o_brien]: makes everybody a fiduciary if they have
any expectation of a continued relationship with the

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[kim_o_brien]: client and totally disregarded the fifth circuit
decision which was that in order to have

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[kim_o_brien]: that expectation you have to have you
know a plan and play so contract with

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[kim_o_brien]: your with your client um and they
buy passed all that and said just any

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[kim_o_brien]: expectation a continued relationship so their new
interpretation of the five parts

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: test is the source of our argument

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[paul_tyler]: yeah well it’s

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[kim_o_brien]: then you combine that if i just
add on if you combine that with the

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[kim_o_brien]: removal of the desert love letter which
excluded the insurance transactions that removal

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: all with the new interpretation

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[kim_o_brien]: of the five par test those two
points the problem with this new rule that

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[kim_o_brien]: the dol says is really not you
know we’re really doing everything that the court

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[kim_o_brien]: told us to do in the fifth
circuit decision and they’re really not it’s just

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[kim_o_brien]: a obviscation

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: i was go ahead ramsey

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i say thanks for that

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[kim_o_brien]: the help

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[paul_tyler]: yeah it helps so i guess we’ll
stay tuned you know and good luck with

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[paul_tyler]: your with a suit now i was
at the napa conference

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[bruno_caron]: my

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[paul_tyler]: for two

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[kim_o_brien]: a

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[paul_tyler]: days at my i’m seeing bruno first
time i’ve been there bruno i don’t know

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[paul_tyler]: if you haf you been to napa
no it was it was

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: great

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[bruno_caron]: never

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[paul_tyler]: you know we talked a little bit
about bout this before him and certainly regulatory

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[paul_tyler]: issues were way up to the fore
front of a lot of questions in the

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00:14:34,522 –> 00:14:41,572
[paul_tyler]: in the carrier round table i guess
you know this business a lot of this

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[paul_tyler]: business just stay is the same and
a few things

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00:14:46,300 –> 00:14:46,320
[bruno_caron]: m

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00:14:46,521 –> 00:14:50,447
[paul_tyler]: change i mean if you if you
looked at the landscape the industry landscape today

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00:14:50,628 –> 00:14:57,676
[paul_tyler]: versus ten years ago you know kim
what oh you know is is it a

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00:14:57,736 –> 00:15:02,744
[paul_tyler]: cession the same industry or you know
what do you see that’s that may be

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00:15:02,825 –> 00:15:07,813
[paul_tyler]: different at this point in terms of
product distribution how we’re marketing technology what are

300
00:15:07,833 –> 00:15:13,220
[paul_tyler]: the what are the major changes that
that you think are the most you know

301
00:15:13,380 –> 00:15:16,424
[paul_tyler]: biggest drivers you know for the next
few years

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00:15:18,890 –> 00:15:26,456
[kim_o_brien]: well on the product side i think
i’ll go three elements run product one distribution

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[kim_o_brien]: and third carrier um on the

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00:15:31,515 –> 00:15:33,885
[paul_tyler]: oh

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00:15:31,534 –> 00:15:37,023
[kim_o_brien]: product side we’re having a lot more
entry into the market place there there when

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[kim_o_brien]: i started i think i counted

307
00:15:39,354 –> 00:15:39,375
[paul_tyler]: m

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00:15:40,248 –> 00:15:40,549
[kim_o_brien]: forty

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00:15:40,455 –> 00:15:41,745
[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:15:40,649 –> 00:15:43,213
[kim_o_brien]: four uh fixed indexenuities

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00:15:42,405 –> 00:15:42,547
[paul_tyler]: ye

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00:15:43,294 –> 00:15:47,280
[kim_o_brien]: and about i don’t know you know
take out the immediate there’s tons

313
00:15:47,064 –> 00:15:47,085
[paul_tyler]: m

314
00:15:47,340 –> 00:15:49,123
[kim_o_brien]: of those but if you just go
with the

315
00:15:49,335 –> 00:15:49,557
[paul_tyler]: oh

316
00:15:49,484 –> 00:15:54,416
[kim_o_brien]: what we used to call traditional annuities
there is about twelve hundred and now that

317
00:15:54,536 –> 00:16:00,113
[kim_o_brien]: fixed index annuity a slot has exponentially
increased and the premium

318
00:15:59,754 –> 00:15:59,775
[paul_tyler]: m

319
00:16:00,314 –> 00:16:03,199
[kim_o_brien]: i mean when again when we hit
two million

320
00:16:02,925 –> 00:16:03,247
[paul_tyler]: oh

321
00:16:03,659 –> 00:16:06,023
[kim_o_brien]: in premium production in nineteen

322
00:16:05,724 –> 00:16:05,745
[paul_tyler]: m

323
00:16:06,083 –> 00:16:07,886
[kim_o_brien]: ninety eight we thought that was huge

324
00:16:07,965 –> 00:16:08,865
[paul_tyler]: yeah

325
00:16:08,387 –> 00:16:10,511
[kim_o_brien]: and now we’re at what a hundred
forty billion

326
00:16:10,326 –> 00:16:10,467
[paul_tyler]: yeah

327
00:16:11,673 –> 00:16:18,164
[kim_o_brien]: expected so i think on the product
side we have a lot more product availability

328
00:16:18,264 –> 00:16:24,935
[kim_o_brien]: which is another key to the independent
adviser and agent because they can offer more

329
00:16:24,995 –> 00:16:29,262
[kim_o_brien]: products and we also have much more
innovation on the products

330
00:16:29,475 –> 00:16:29,495
[paul_tyler]: m

331
00:16:29,683 –> 00:16:31,526
[kim_o_brien]: with these different industries

332
00:16:31,614 –> 00:16:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m

333
00:16:31,626 –> 00:16:34,210
[kim_o_brien]: i think we mentioned before we went
here

334
00:16:34,005 –> 00:16:35,085
[paul_tyler]: oh

335
00:16:35,052 –> 00:16:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: there’s so many more industries out there
that

336
00:16:37,914 –> 00:16:37,935
[paul_tyler]: m

337
00:16:37,957 –> 00:16:43,345
[kim_o_brien]: customers can choose from and the diversification
that they can put into their fixed index

338
00:16:44,187 –> 00:16:49,794
[kim_o_brien]: portfolio is is much more broader and
and deeper into the

339
00:16:50,505 –> 00:16:50,830
[paul_tyler]: oh

340
00:16:50,595 –> 00:16:59,307
[kim_o_brien]: index marketplace on the distribution side what
we’re seeing very much is the consolidation

341
00:16:58,880 –> 00:16:58,981
[bruno_caron]: ah

342
00:16:59,807 –> 00:17:08,602
[kim_o_brien]: of independent personally owned privately owned businesses
and we see three major conglomerates that are

343
00:17:08,942 –> 00:17:10,124
[kim_o_brien]: you know moving

344
00:17:09,915 –> 00:17:10,197
[paul_tyler]: oh

345
00:17:10,204 –> 00:17:16,411
[kim_o_brien]: people into into the consolidation market um
m that’s that’s

346
00:17:16,215 –> 00:17:16,680
[paul_tyler]: oh

347
00:17:16,552 –> 00:17:18,254
[kim_o_brien]: new we still have

348
00:17:19,005 –> 00:17:19,785
[paul_tyler]: my

349
00:17:19,096 –> 00:17:20,518
[kim_o_brien]: we count about a hundred and

350
00:17:20,771 –> 00:17:20,853
[paul_tyler]: ah

351
00:17:20,959 –> 00:17:22,922
[kim_o_brien]: forty individual modes

352
00:17:22,755 –> 00:17:23,059
[paul_tyler]: yes

353
00:17:22,982 –> 00:17:28,592
[kim_o_brien]: that are still family owned family run
businesses um if add life and long term

354
00:17:28,692 –> 00:17:32,458
[kim_o_brien]: care into that we’re up at about
two fifty to sixty so there’s still a

355
00:17:32,518 –> 00:17:38,708
[kim_o_brien]: lot of small businesses that are are
not you know sold and owned by these

356
00:17:39,069 –> 00:17:48,693
[kim_o_brien]: large corporations and they are corporations um
so we think very importantly those are important

357
00:17:48,973 –> 00:17:52,319
[kim_o_brien]: people get to make their choice of
of how they run their

358
00:17:52,305 –> 00:17:52,325
[paul_tyler]: m

359
00:17:52,399 –> 00:17:59,611
[kim_o_brien]: business but the small folks that are
running their smaller and mid sized mos also

360
00:18:00,593 –> 00:18:03,898
[kim_o_brien]: need an avenue and need a voice
and an advocate to

361
00:18:03,894 –> 00:18:03,914
[paul_tyler]: a

362
00:18:03,958 –> 00:18:09,127
[kim_o_brien]: protect their businesses and then the third
element is the carrier element we’re seeing new

363
00:18:09,207 –> 00:18:09,708
[kim_o_brien]: carriers

364
00:18:10,005 –> 00:18:10,287
[paul_tyler]: yeah

365
00:18:10,149 –> 00:18:13,912
[kim_o_brien]: coming in there’s the names are

366
00:18:14,288 –> 00:18:14,528
[paul_tyler]: right

367
00:18:14,914 –> 00:18:19,541
[kim_o_brien]: when we changed our name from the
mutual group to cleric i thought it sounds

368
00:18:19,455 –> 00:18:20,374
[paul_tyler]: ye

369
00:18:19,621 –> 00:18:20,623
[kim_o_brien]: like you know a nasal

370
00:18:20,805 –> 00:18:21,705
[paul_tyler]: yeah

371
00:18:21,685 –> 00:18:21,945
[kim_o_brien]: drug

372
00:18:22,065 –> 00:18:22,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah

373
00:18:22,126 –> 00:18:23,828
[kim_o_brien]: but these names

374
00:18:23,685 –> 00:18:23,705
[paul_tyler]: m

375
00:18:23,869 –> 00:18:25,251
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in the market

376
00:18:25,395 –> 00:18:27,195
[paul_tyler]: oh

377
00:18:25,712 –> 00:18:29,899
[kim_o_brien]: there’s a new one that just entered
i think about last year and there’s another

378
00:18:30,059 –> 00:18:31,702
[kim_o_brien]: one i talked to a good

379
00:18:31,614 –> 00:18:31,635
[paul_tyler]: m

380
00:18:31,762 –> 00:18:37,991
[kim_o_brien]: friend who’s an i m very long
in the industry and he’s actually been tapped

381
00:18:38,272 –> 00:18:42,957
[kim_o_brien]: to run this new carrier so we’re
seeing new and smaller

382
00:18:42,705 –> 00:18:43,464
[paul_tyler]: yah

383
00:18:43,057 –> 00:18:48,895
[kim_o_brien]: carriers come in so those are the
three things that i see changing on that

384
00:18:48,975 –> 00:18:49,576
[kim_o_brien]: last note if

385
00:18:49,554 –> 00:18:49,575
[paul_tyler]: m

386
00:18:49,636 –> 00:18:55,978
[kim_o_brien]: i may just add an shut me
up if you need to the smaller companies

387
00:18:56,018 –> 00:19:03,205
[kim_o_brien]: that are coming in and they’re really
drive you know the big carriers we used

388
00:19:03,245 –> 00:19:04,768
[kim_o_brien]: to call them the big three as

389
00:19:04,785 –> 00:19:05,610
[paul_tyler]: uh

390
00:19:06,070 –> 00:19:06,450
[kim_o_brien]: that run

391
00:19:06,354 –> 00:19:06,375
[paul_tyler]: h

392
00:19:06,510 –> 00:19:06,991
[kim_o_brien]: the annuity

393
00:19:06,825 –> 00:19:07,695
[paul_tyler]: yeah

394
00:19:07,051 –> 00:19:13,562
[kim_o_brien]: marketplace um they still have a good
market handle on on the production but the

395
00:19:13,642 –> 00:19:14,424
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers

396
00:19:14,415 –> 00:19:14,638
[paul_tyler]: oh

397
00:19:14,484 –> 00:19:16,567
[kim_o_brien]: are really making a difference and

398
00:19:16,485 –> 00:19:16,505
[paul_tyler]: m

399
00:19:16,667 –> 00:19:17,569
[kim_o_brien]: some of these smaller

400
00:19:17,625 –> 00:19:17,846
[paul_tyler]: oh

401
00:19:17,629 –> 00:19:19,993
[kim_o_brien]: carriers and their product innovation

402
00:19:19,995 –> 00:19:20,317
[paul_tyler]: oh

403
00:19:20,454 –> 00:19:24,701
[kim_o_brien]: are really new and different when i
talk to our i m o and i

404
00:19:24,822 –> 00:19:30,562
[kim_o_brien]: talked to him all the time they
really like some of the quick to market

405
00:19:30,435 –> 00:19:30,657
[paul_tyler]: oh

406
00:19:31,023 –> 00:19:35,673
[kim_o_brien]: new innovative products that are coming out
of these smaller carriers and some of these

407
00:19:35,713 –> 00:19:36,495
[kim_o_brien]: smaller carriers

408
00:19:36,075 –> 00:19:36,825
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:19:36,575 –> 00:19:42,365
[kim_o_brien]: start out in there there be rated
you know they’re lower rated because their brand

410
00:19:42,445 –> 00:19:47,033
[kim_o_brien]: new um and they don’t have the
history and the reserving and all that stuff

411
00:19:48,115 –> 00:19:49,217
[kim_o_brien]: so that

412
00:19:49,005 –> 00:19:49,246
[paul_tyler]: oh

413
00:19:49,718 –> 00:19:55,428
[kim_o_brien]: that’s an important piece of our puzzle
because i think as they grow and we’ve

414
00:19:55,468 –> 00:20:02,854
[kim_o_brien]: seen this time and time again and
your company nassau is a great example as

415
00:20:02,934 –> 00:20:05,843
[kim_o_brien]: it grows their rating grows and

416
00:20:06,825 –> 00:20:07,845
[paul_tyler]: yeah

417
00:20:07,350 –> 00:20:12,515
[kim_o_brien]: you get more distribution you get more
innovation you get more productivity by blah blah

418
00:20:12,856 –> 00:20:15,739
[kim_o_brien]: and it just keeps going and i
think that’s a very positive thing

419
00:20:18,989 –> 00:20:22,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: well we’re quite fortunate that we have
we have on the call somebody

420
00:20:22,000 –> 00:20:22,690
[bruno_caron]: oh

421
00:20:22,136 –> 00:20:23,119
[ramsey_d_smith]: used to give those scores

422
00:20:22,810 –> 00:20:23,200
[bruno_caron]: yes

423
00:20:23,685 –> 00:20:23,967
[paul_tyler]: oh

424
00:20:26,774 –> 00:20:27,355
[bruno_caron]: it definitely

425
00:20:27,705 –> 00:20:28,575
[paul_tyler]: my

426
00:20:28,437 –> 00:20:30,400
[bruno_caron]: definitely sparked some many conversations

427
00:20:30,217 –> 00:20:30,501
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

428
00:20:30,500 –> 00:20:33,866
[bruno_caron]: in my in the last five years
to say the least

429
00:20:33,915 –> 00:20:34,605
[paul_tyler]: oh

430
00:20:33,926 –> 00:20:34,267
[bruno_caron]: so i

431
00:20:34,327 –> 00:20:34,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

432
00:20:34,387 –> 00:20:45,171
[bruno_caron]: definitely agree and concur with you that
those new carriers are definitely making their way

433
00:20:45,271 –> 00:20:50,436
[bruno_caron]: into into the industry fairly fairly fast
adding up on top of that you have

434
00:20:50,536 –> 00:20:54,440
[bruno_caron]: some of the the re insures that
are there to that that we you know

435
00:20:54,782 –> 00:20:56,088
[bruno_caron]: that are less on the forefront

436
00:20:56,355 –> 00:20:56,556
[paul_tyler]: oh

437
00:20:57,221 –> 00:21:04,136
[bruno_caron]: but the play major piece in terms
of capital allocation and supporting some of those

438
00:21:04,719 –> 00:21:09,288
[bruno_caron]: of those carriers so well agree more
on the on that point

439
00:21:09,525 –> 00:21:09,665
[paul_tyler]: yeah

440
00:21:09,769 –> 00:21:09,850
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

441
00:21:10,386 –> 00:21:14,333
[paul_tyler]: i’m an optimist for the change i
mean i think the change is very positive

442
00:21:14,413 –> 00:21:20,122
[paul_tyler]: but you know he’s there’s a in
some great discussions on the on the panel

443
00:21:20,864 –> 00:21:24,390
[paul_tyler]: the im discussion with some of the
leading mos

444
00:21:24,580 –> 00:21:25,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

445
00:21:25,531 –> 00:21:29,959
[paul_tyler]: kim just hit on all those factors
like wow they like the new characters coming

446
00:21:30,059 –> 00:21:31,942
[paul_tyler]: in because they were quick to

447
00:21:32,536 –> 00:21:32,556
[kim_o_brien]: i

448
00:21:32,723 –> 00:21:34,386
[paul_tyler]: come up with me product designs

449
00:21:34,143 –> 00:21:34,348
[kim_o_brien]: okay

450
00:21:34,426 –> 00:21:39,555
[paul_tyler]: and they’re building them on new technology
new platforms that where you don’t have to

451
00:21:39,615 –> 00:21:44,964
[paul_tyler]: wait you know ramsey twelve months to
get a new index into a product which

452
00:21:45,004 –> 00:21:47,408
[paul_tyler]: i think a lot of us are
kind of you know locked the cycle that

453
00:21:47,468 –> 00:21:51,054
[paul_tyler]: a lot of us are locked into
you know the downside as well you know

454
00:21:51,114 –> 00:21:55,862
[paul_tyler]: do you know kim do they really
understand the business right because you can also

455
00:21:56,683 –> 00:21:59,448
[paul_tyler]: have price decisions you know made by
people

456
00:21:59,410 –> 00:22:00,370
[bruno_caron]: yeah

457
00:21:59,548 –> 00:22:05,518
[paul_tyler]: who sort of carry the industry into
places we don’t want to go so i

458
00:22:05,538 –> 00:22:09,345
[paul_tyler]: think we’ll hopefully these people are who
are you know leading a lot of these

459
00:22:09,445 –> 00:22:14,176
[paul_tyler]: isutivesare are cautious and bring some some
people who’ve you know got experience in this

460
00:22:14,256 –> 00:22:17,042
[paul_tyler]: industry in put them in the helm

461
00:22:18,710 –> 00:22:20,655
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a good point an
excellent

462
00:22:20,424 –> 00:22:20,445
[paul_tyler]: m

463
00:22:20,735 –> 00:22:22,098
[kim_o_brien]: point and i’ll use it

464
00:22:23,115 –> 00:22:23,397
[paul_tyler]: yeah

465
00:22:23,531 –> 00:22:26,938
[kim_o_brien]: shout out our platform and why we
think

466
00:22:26,779 –> 00:22:26,800
[bruno_caron]: m

467
00:22:26,998 –> 00:22:34,763
[kim_o_brien]: the d l is unnecessary because we
have unbelievable regulatory regime in our state insurance

468
00:22:35,525 –> 00:22:40,253
[kim_o_brien]: and they’re watching reserves they’re watching valuations
they’re watching

469
00:22:39,945 –> 00:22:40,230
[paul_tyler]: oh

470
00:22:40,333 –> 00:22:46,482
[kim_o_brien]: you know and i’m i’m on a
number of different an i c calls related

471
00:22:46,642 –> 00:22:55,204
[kim_o_brien]: to illustration modeling valuation reserving and i’m
not an actuary so i don’t understand it

472
00:22:55,264 –> 00:22:55,384
[kim_o_brien]: all

473
00:22:55,425 –> 00:22:56,505
[paul_tyler]: oh

474
00:22:55,504 –> 00:22:56,806
[kim_o_brien]: but we’re paying attention

475
00:22:57,165 –> 00:22:57,185
[paul_tyler]: m

476
00:22:57,708 –> 00:23:04,199
[kim_o_brien]: to see if it has any impact
on independent distribution but i just really and

477
00:23:04,259 –> 00:23:13,196
[kim_o_brien]: we know this from historical averages this
history that we rarely have a carrier that

478
00:23:14,350 –> 00:23:15,191
[kim_o_brien]: defaults or

479
00:23:15,218 –> 00:23:15,279
[paul_tyler]: hm

480
00:23:15,291 –> 00:23:16,593
[kim_o_brien]: goes into insolvency

481
00:23:16,614 –> 00:23:16,635
[paul_tyler]: m

482
00:23:17,395 –> 00:23:18,817
[kim_o_brien]: in the words of the n i
c

483
00:23:19,215 –> 00:23:19,995
[paul_tyler]: yeah

484
00:23:19,498 –> 00:23:25,488
[kim_o_brien]: and the few that we’ve had that
have gone into insolvency all the contracts have

485
00:23:25,528 –> 00:23:30,056
[kim_o_brien]: been purchased by another insurance company and
those contracts have been honored

486
00:23:30,137 –> 00:23:30,218
[paul_tyler]: ah

487
00:23:30,477 –> 00:23:37,368
[kim_o_brien]: and those consumers have been protected so
our regulatory regime is very robust and very

488
00:23:37,809 –> 00:23:43,434
[kim_o_brien]: strong and so i welcome these new
companies because you know that they’re going to

489
00:23:43,494 –> 00:23:49,039
[kim_o_brien]: get the oversight of of the regulators
in their states and in the states they

490
00:23:49,179 –> 00:23:49,619
[kim_o_brien]: operate

491
00:23:49,786 –> 00:23:50,247
[paul_tyler]: yeah you know

492
00:23:50,390 –> 00:23:51,072
[bruno_caron]: and to your point

493
00:23:51,451 –> 00:23:51,712
[paul_tyler]: go ahead

494
00:23:52,134 –> 00:23:58,580
[bruno_caron]: to your point i think the management
quality and ability to build and execute i

495
00:23:58,640 –> 00:24:03,567
[bruno_caron]: can state for a fact that it
is a consideration in terms of in terms

496
00:24:03,627 –> 00:24:04,529
[bruno_caron]: of ratings in general

497
00:24:05,876 –> 00:24:06,140
[kim_o_brien]: want it

498
00:24:06,265 –> 00:24:08,517
[bruno_caron]: especially for those those new carriers

499
00:24:09,760 –> 00:24:11,262
[kim_o_brien]: sorry i get so excited one

500
00:24:11,320 –> 00:24:11,340
[bruno_caron]: m

501
00:24:11,322 –> 00:24:12,444
[kim_o_brien]: of the things we’re working

502
00:24:12,289 –> 00:24:12,310
[bruno_caron]: m

503
00:24:12,384 –> 00:24:12,405
[paul_tyler]: m

504
00:24:12,564 –> 00:24:13,025
[kim_o_brien]: on at the

505
00:24:13,009 –> 00:24:13,030
[bruno_caron]: m

506
00:24:13,646 –> 00:24:17,413
[kim_o_brien]: fact is we want to change the
guarantee fund law

507
00:24:17,454 –> 00:24:17,475
[paul_tyler]: m

508
00:24:18,074 –> 00:24:23,463
[kim_o_brien]: and right now we think the guarantee
fund now is of the guarantee fund you

509
00:24:23,604 –> 00:24:24,946
[kim_o_brien]: all know that

510
00:24:25,390 –> 00:24:25,636
[bruno_caron]: oh

511
00:24:25,545 –> 00:24:25,791
[paul_tyler]: oh

512
00:24:25,668 –> 00:24:28,413
[kim_o_brien]: work in the industry that you will
have to say this

513
00:24:28,425 –> 00:24:28,690
[paul_tyler]: yes

514
00:24:28,473 –> 00:24:30,457
[kim_o_brien]: is not f d i c insured

515
00:24:31,240 –> 00:24:31,503
[bruno_caron]: oh

516
00:24:31,550 –> 00:24:33,753
[kim_o_brien]: but you can’t say to the customer

517
00:24:33,345 –> 00:24:33,365
[paul_tyler]: m

518
00:24:33,640 –> 00:24:33,660
[bruno_caron]: m

519
00:24:34,114 –> 00:24:35,777
[kim_o_brien]: but it is secondary

520
00:24:35,694 –> 00:24:35,715
[paul_tyler]: m

521
00:24:35,877 –> 00:24:38,201
[kim_o_brien]: insurance i always say annuities

522
00:24:38,055 –> 00:24:38,321
[paul_tyler]: oh

523
00:24:38,341 –> 00:24:44,234
[kim_o_brien]: and life insurance already come wrapped in
an insurance wrapper they don’t need f d

524
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:46,226
[kim_o_brien]: i c like a bank does but

525
00:24:46,485 –> 00:24:47,595
[paul_tyler]: oh

526
00:24:47,360 –> 00:24:52,128
[kim_o_brien]: in addition of course we all know
that there is the secondary insurance of the

527
00:24:52,168 –> 00:24:58,859
[kim_o_brien]: guarantee fund but you can’t talk about
that until the client has committed their money

528
00:24:58,905 –> 00:24:59,207
[paul_tyler]: oh

529
00:24:59,380 –> 00:25:01,884
[kim_o_brien]: received their contract from the insurer

530
00:25:02,475 –> 00:25:02,737
[paul_tyler]: oh

531
00:25:02,865 –> 00:25:07,593
[kim_o_brien]: and i got a call back in
twenty when was that a i g issue

532
00:25:09,136 –> 00:25:15,026
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t know whatever year it was
when everybody was concerned because of the aigs

533
00:25:15,607 –> 00:25:16,628
[kim_o_brien]: financial issues

534
00:25:16,575 –> 00:25:16,595
[paul_tyler]: m

535
00:25:16,889 –> 00:25:17,330
[kim_o_brien]: even though

536
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:17,934
[bruno_caron]: uh

537
00:25:17,650 –> 00:25:19,874
[kim_o_brien]: america in general the insurance arm

538
00:25:19,815 –> 00:25:20,040
[paul_tyler]: oh

539
00:25:20,134 –> 00:25:25,523
[kim_o_brien]: was not impacted whatsoever i got a
call from woman in florida and she was

540
00:25:25,684 –> 00:25:26,024
[kim_o_brien]: very

541
00:25:25,895 –> 00:25:26,470
[bruno_caron]: kay

542
00:25:26,175 –> 00:25:26,457
[paul_tyler]: oh

543
00:25:26,385 –> 00:25:31,353
[kim_o_brien]: worried and very concerned because she had
you know five hundred thousand in an a

544
00:25:31,613 –> 00:25:37,503
[kim_o_brien]: g contract american general contract and she
was worried that was in trouble and

545
00:25:37,695 –> 00:25:37,997
[paul_tyler]: oh

546
00:25:37,944 –> 00:25:44,735
[kim_o_brien]: again if she had known early in
her decision making process that florida at the

547
00:25:44,775 –> 00:25:45,136
[kim_o_brien]: time

548
00:25:45,015 –> 00:25:46,065
[paul_tyler]: oh

549
00:25:45,216 –> 00:25:53,511
[kim_o_brien]: two under fifty blah blah she could
have diversified that choice between annuity contracts between

550
00:25:53,571 –> 00:25:58,941
[kim_o_brien]: annuity carriers whatever she wanted to do
if she had been aware ahead of time

551
00:25:59,355 –> 00:26:00,045
[paul_tyler]: yeah

552
00:25:59,442 –> 00:26:03,029
[kim_o_brien]: so what we’re working on at fact
is earlier disclosure

553
00:26:02,955 –> 00:26:03,197
[paul_tyler]: oh

554
00:26:04,060 –> 00:26:09,749
[kim_o_brien]: the whole reason we have the guarantee
fund disclosure rule in place is because

555
00:26:09,705 –> 00:26:10,905
[paul_tyler]: oh

556
00:26:11,011 –> 00:26:16,600
[kim_o_brien]: carriers were concerned that high rated carriers
were concerned that low rated care yours would

557
00:26:16,641 –> 00:26:16,821
[kim_o_brien]: just

558
00:26:17,085 –> 00:26:17,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

559
00:26:17,101 –> 00:26:21,689
[kim_o_brien]: you know say don’t worry about it
or be rated just by you’re protected by

560
00:26:21,749 –> 00:26:27,879
[kim_o_brien]: the guarantee fund so they are worried
about you know the slugging off the rating

561
00:26:28,200 –> 00:26:33,609
[kim_o_brien]: and and just promising the customer a
guarantee fund back up but we can do

562
00:26:33,989 –> 00:26:34,050
[kim_o_brien]: we

563
00:26:34,005 –> 00:26:34,246
[paul_tyler]: oh

564
00:26:34,110 –> 00:26:34,951
[kim_o_brien]: can do a better job

565
00:26:35,000 –> 00:26:35,241
[bruno_caron]: okay

566
00:26:35,051 –> 00:26:37,856
[kim_o_brien]: in disclosure and we can make sure
they understand

567
00:26:37,365 –> 00:26:37,647
[paul_tyler]: oh

568
00:26:38,357 –> 00:26:41,861
[kim_o_brien]: the rating aspect of it as well
as let them know

569
00:26:41,814 –> 00:26:41,835
[paul_tyler]: m

570
00:26:41,942 –> 00:26:46,807
[kim_o_brien]: ahead of time so they can make
important choices that will help them down the

571
00:26:46,867 –> 00:26:47,808
[kim_o_brien]: road should there be

572
00:26:47,934 –> 00:26:47,955
[paul_tyler]: m

573
00:26:48,128 –> 00:26:48,949
[kim_o_brien]: an insolvency

574
00:26:49,515 –> 00:26:53,201
[paul_tyler]: yeah i agree with you and we
had a great discussion with you know one

575
00:26:53,221 –> 00:26:56,427
[paul_tyler]: of your friends harry stout on that
topic and

576
00:26:57,480 –> 00:26:58,285
[kim_o_brien]: as harry out there

577
00:26:58,630 –> 00:27:01,916
[paul_tyler]: yeah he was he was now he
was not there he was on our show

578
00:27:02,557 –> 00:27:02,777
[paul_tyler]: maybe

579
00:27:03,370 –> 00:27:03,633
[kim_o_brien]: oh

580
00:27:03,538 –> 00:27:07,305
[paul_tyler]: two months ago now miss terry he
would have been a great addition to the

581
00:27:07,545 –> 00:27:09,348
[paul_tyler]: to the conference yeah

582
00:27:09,322 –> 00:27:09,342
[kim_o_brien]: i

583
00:27:09,388 –> 00:27:09,528
[paul_tyler]: well

584
00:27:09,564 –> 00:27:09,866
[kim_o_brien]: profess

585
00:27:09,849 –> 00:27:12,313
[paul_tyler]: if we were just sort o talk
about products for a minute because you know

586
00:27:12,634 –> 00:27:17,304
[paul_tyler]: we talked about that the distribution the
there’s a lot of discussion around induces ramsey

587
00:27:17,384 –> 00:27:19,990
[paul_tyler]: this will be a real

588
00:27:19,897 –> 00:27:20,137
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

589
00:27:20,090 –> 00:27:26,081
[paul_tyler]: interesting you know point of discussion for
you a lot of a lot of debate

590
00:27:26,182 –> 00:27:33,113
[paul_tyler]: everybody of course had very different opinions
on okay industries or industry index strategies i

591
00:27:33,153 –> 00:27:38,054
[paul_tyler]: think there as something like hunder fifty
industies inside cares right now now is that

592
00:27:38,094 –> 00:27:39,960
[paul_tyler]: too much too little

593
00:27:39,928 –> 00:27:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’m surprised there aren’t more

594
00:27:41,986 –> 00:27:42,207
[paul_tyler]: well

595
00:27:42,340 –> 00:27:42,360
[bruno_caron]: m

596
00:27:43,108 –> 00:27:43,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: that’s a lot

597
00:27:43,550 –> 00:27:43,851
[paul_tyler]: that was

598
00:27:43,770 –> 00:27:44,312
[ramsey_d_smith]: but you know

599
00:27:44,272 –> 00:27:44,433
[paul_tyler]: that

600
00:27:44,773 –> 00:27:45,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have guessed

601
00:27:45,345 –> 00:27:45,365
[paul_tyler]: m

602
00:27:45,395 –> 00:27:48,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would have actually guessed more it’s
been it’s been a booming industry for a

603
00:27:48,544 –> 00:27:48,765
[ramsey_d_smith]: while

604
00:27:49,836 –> 00:27:53,022
[paul_tyler]: yeah and and so you know came
to your point there were a lot of

605
00:27:53,082 –> 00:27:53,442
[paul_tyler]: arguments

606
00:27:53,086 –> 00:27:53,107
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

607
00:27:53,503 –> 00:27:58,471
[paul_tyler]: to say well there’s too many it’s
too confusing then people were saying look the

608
00:27:58,511 –> 00:28:02,658
[paul_tyler]: best ones haven’t been invented yet you
know we’re actually just kind of getting going

609
00:28:02,998 –> 00:28:05,963
[paul_tyler]: and you know potentially offering even

610
00:28:06,010 –> 00:28:06,970
[bruno_caron]: oh

611
00:28:06,204 –> 00:28:11,693
[paul_tyler]: sort of better diversity of protections for
you know the retirement savings and nest egs

612
00:28:11,793 –> 00:28:15,357
[paul_tyler]: mean where where do you follow you
saw the beginning of the industry

613
00:28:16,339 –> 00:28:16,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

614
00:28:16,759 –> 00:28:20,103
[paul_tyler]: and you know i think right now
it’s yeah

615
00:28:23,790 –> 00:28:29,019
[kim_o_brien]: my thoughts are always choice i think
choice is a great thing and and one

616
00:28:29,606 –> 00:28:29,707
[paul_tyler]: ah

617
00:28:29,860 –> 00:28:30,321
[kim_o_brien]: back in

618
00:28:30,713 –> 00:28:30,874
[paul_tyler]: yes

619
00:28:31,022 –> 00:28:36,291
[kim_o_brien]: napa days i was called by an
agent to tell me that should shut down

620
00:28:36,672 –> 00:28:39,476
[kim_o_brien]: this product product a product

621
00:28:39,932 –> 00:28:40,095
[paul_tyler]: yeah

622
00:28:39,977 –> 00:28:43,804
[kim_o_brien]: was bad product a allowed this it
shouldn’t it shouldn’t be

623
00:28:43,935 –> 00:28:44,198
[paul_tyler]: oh

624
00:28:44,024 –> 00:28:48,554
[kim_o_brien]: you shouldn’t be promoting this product you
should shed it now

625
00:28:48,444 –> 00:28:48,465
[paul_tyler]: m

626
00:28:48,675 –> 00:28:56,235
[kim_o_brien]: this product happened to go through the
normal valuation all the aspects and the filing

627
00:28:56,295 –> 00:29:01,063
[kim_o_brien]: and the requirements from the state and
they had to meet all of the filing

628
00:29:01,183 –> 00:29:07,714
[kim_o_brien]: requirements to become a quote product and
once that happens and you know the state

629
00:29:07,665 –> 00:29:07,869
[paul_tyler]: oh

630
00:29:07,774 –> 00:29:16,048
[kim_o_brien]: is very every state has a very
difficult product development and product compliance and product

631
00:29:16,168 –> 00:29:21,838
[kim_o_brien]: submission process that’s half of the time
that it takes to develop a product is

632
00:29:21,918 –> 00:29:27,046
[kim_o_brien]: getting it approved by the state um
and and it’s a very very robust and

633
00:29:27,086 –> 00:29:33,433
[kim_o_brien]: a very thorough process so i felt
strongly that now as long as it was

634
00:29:33,473 –> 00:29:38,904
[kim_o_brien]: approved by the state and went through
this very very heavy betting um that it

635
00:29:38,984 –> 00:29:45,204
[kim_o_brien]: was a product and at napa when
i was there it was the national association

636
00:29:45,365 –> 00:29:52,375
[kim_o_brien]: for fixed annuity so we were for
it go to your question directly all these

637
00:29:52,455 –> 00:29:59,306
[kim_o_brien]: induscties and what not i think that’s
great it’s it’s it’s an innovation it’s helpful

638
00:30:00,669 –> 00:30:04,916
[kim_o_brien]: agents have to now step up i
think a little harder

639
00:30:04,725 –> 00:30:04,986
[paul_tyler]: oh

640
00:30:05,056 –> 00:30:09,223
[kim_o_brien]: because it’s more more information more education

641
00:30:09,015 –> 00:30:09,316
[paul_tyler]: oh

642
00:30:09,383 –> 00:30:16,241
[kim_o_brien]: more awareness more understanding of these industies
and they’ve been used to but i think

643
00:30:16,281 –> 00:30:21,008
[kim_o_brien]: the carriers do an excellent job of
doing that so

644
00:30:21,045 –> 00:30:21,286
[paul_tyler]: oh

645
00:30:21,991 –> 00:30:22,354
[kim_o_brien]: choice

646
00:30:22,875 –> 00:30:22,895
[paul_tyler]: m

647
00:30:22,939 –> 00:30:24,890
[kim_o_brien]: i’m for it m

648
00:30:25,636 –> 00:30:25,957
[paul_tyler]: bruno

649
00:30:26,430 –> 00:30:26,855
[bruno_caron]: wonderful

650
00:30:26,778 –> 00:30:27,178
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

651
00:30:27,460 –> 00:30:28,180
[bruno_caron]: yeah

652
00:30:29,442 –> 00:30:30,043
[paul_tyler]: what’s your take

653
00:30:29,832 –> 00:30:29,852
[bruno_caron]: i

654
00:30:30,103 –> 00:30:31,667
[paul_tyler]: on this oh

655
00:30:31,670 –> 00:30:32,894
[bruno_caron]: well no you know

656
00:30:33,915 –> 00:30:34,058
[paul_tyler]: ye

657
00:30:36,250 –> 00:30:38,755
[bruno_caron]: like every every other business more choice

658
00:30:39,204 –> 00:30:39,225
[paul_tyler]: m

659
00:30:39,256 –> 00:30:39,737
[bruno_caron]: is usually

660
00:30:40,605 –> 00:30:40,807
[paul_tyler]: oh

661
00:30:40,859 –> 00:30:41,641
[bruno_caron]: usually a good thing

662
00:30:41,565 –> 00:30:41,849
[paul_tyler]: oh

663
00:30:41,921 –> 00:30:43,585
[bruno_caron]: so i think that’s

664
00:30:44,385 –> 00:30:44,709
[paul_tyler]: oh

665
00:30:44,627 –> 00:30:49,794
[bruno_caron]: i would agree with that but i
wanted to come to a to a point

666
00:30:49,854 –> 00:30:56,292
[bruno_caron]: where where kim you mentioned that your
your un speech at you know

667
00:30:56,535 –> 00:30:57,285
[paul_tyler]: oh

668
00:30:57,096 –> 00:31:03,520
[bruno_caron]: investments and annuities it’s none in either
or and you know there is this you

669
00:31:03,560 –> 00:31:08,302
[bruno_caron]: know this popular saying out there where
people in our world

670
00:31:08,595 –> 00:31:08,859
[paul_tyler]: oh

671
00:31:08,622 –> 00:31:10,303
[bruno_caron]: you know completely understand

672
00:31:09,945 –> 00:31:09,965
[paul_tyler]: m

673
00:31:10,424 –> 00:31:12,045
[bruno_caron]: and agree with that but there seems

674
00:31:12,045 –> 00:31:12,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

675
00:31:12,125 –> 00:31:15,769
[bruno_caron]: to be some you know some some
train some philosophy

676
00:31:16,005 –> 00:31:17,265
[paul_tyler]: my

677
00:31:16,730 –> 00:31:17,212
[bruno_caron]: you know within

678
00:31:17,355 –> 00:31:17,581
[paul_tyler]: oh

679
00:31:17,432 –> 00:31:19,137
[bruno_caron]: the investment community that you know

680
00:31:19,275 –> 00:31:20,265
[paul_tyler]: yeah

681
00:31:19,397 –> 00:31:21,663
[bruno_caron]: investments are sufficient

682
00:31:21,474 –> 00:31:21,495
[paul_tyler]: m

683
00:31:21,723 –> 00:31:21,984
[bruno_caron]: enough

684
00:31:22,335 –> 00:31:22,617
[paul_tyler]: yeah

685
00:31:22,425 –> 00:31:30,244
[bruno_caron]: and annuities are not not necessary and
of course i used the word annuity in

686
00:31:30,425 –> 00:31:30,645
[bruno_caron]: very

687
00:31:30,555 –> 00:31:30,938
[paul_tyler]: oh

688
00:31:31,006 –> 00:31:32,308
[bruno_caron]: broad term we all

689
00:31:32,235 –> 00:31:33,105
[paul_tyler]: yeah

690
00:31:32,328 –> 00:31:34,351
[bruno_caron]: know they come in multiple flavors

691
00:31:34,230 –> 00:31:34,491
[kim_o_brien]: oh

692
00:31:35,874 –> 00:31:38,278
[bruno_caron]: but paul mentioned the young in the
end

693
00:31:38,265 –> 00:31:38,689
[paul_tyler]: oh

694
00:31:38,458 –> 00:31:43,190
[bruno_caron]: earlier how do you how do you
marry that how how do you get

695
00:31:43,245 –> 00:31:43,486
[paul_tyler]: oh

696
00:31:43,571 –> 00:31:43,912
[bruno_caron]: into

697
00:31:45,255 –> 00:31:46,455
[paul_tyler]: oh

698
00:31:45,657 –> 00:31:48,771
[bruno_caron]: to people from all the spectrum

699
00:31:48,856 –> 00:31:49,018
[paul_tyler]: yes

700
00:31:48,951 –> 00:31:53,359
[bruno_caron]: of financial services and agree that there’s
there’s some sort of balance and some sort

701
00:31:53,419 –> 00:31:59,369
[bruno_caron]: of equilibrium between between those those offerings
and those financial vehicles

702
00:32:00,045 –> 00:32:00,307
[paul_tyler]: oh

703
00:32:01,312 –> 00:32:05,560
[kim_o_brien]: well that was a very good question
and anna very

704
00:32:05,625 –> 00:32:05,645
[paul_tyler]: m

705
00:32:05,660 –> 00:32:15,102
[kim_o_brien]: broad question bruno but i’ve always felt
and in fact feel strongly that so the

706
00:32:15,202 –> 00:32:16,305
[kim_o_brien]: differentiation

707
00:32:15,645 –> 00:32:15,665
[paul_tyler]: m

708
00:32:16,445 –> 00:32:16,886
[kim_o_brien]: between

709
00:32:16,485 –> 00:32:16,789
[paul_tyler]: oh

710
00:32:16,966 –> 00:32:18,029
[kim_o_brien]: these two products

711
00:32:18,375 –> 00:32:19,515
[paul_tyler]: oh

712
00:32:18,970 –> 00:32:19,110
[kim_o_brien]: and

713
00:32:19,935 –> 00:32:20,895
[paul_tyler]: yeah

714
00:32:19,971 –> 00:32:26,672
[kim_o_brien]: regulators call annuities investments all the time
and it drives me crazy because annuities aren’t

715
00:32:26,792 –> 00:32:33,544
[kim_o_brien]: investments they are insurance first and foremost
yes we have wonderful products that can provide

716
00:32:33,604 –> 00:32:40,955
[kim_o_brien]: additional gain and additional money on top
the guarantees that’s great but at the end

717
00:32:41,015 –> 00:32:47,740
[kim_o_brien]: of the day it’s for the customer
the portion of their money whether it’s and

718
00:32:47,780 –> 00:32:51,964
[kim_o_brien]: we know we have many all of
our carriers that we work with have limitations

719
00:32:52,044 –> 00:32:56,949
[kim_o_brien]: on how much you can put in
to your annuity but however much they want

720
00:32:57,109 –> 00:33:02,477
[kim_o_brien]: to up to the carrier requirements that
they want protected

721
00:33:02,025 –> 00:33:02,045
[paul_tyler]: m

722
00:33:02,837 –> 00:33:07,365
[kim_o_brien]: or they want a guaranteed income stream
from a writer or from the contract

723
00:33:06,975 –> 00:33:07,095
[paul_tyler]: oh

724
00:33:07,485 –> 00:33:14,767
[kim_o_brien]: itself even without a writer they should
be allowed to make that decision and they

725
00:33:15,740 –> 00:33:16,421
[kim_o_brien]: your question

726
00:33:16,515 –> 00:33:16,535
[paul_tyler]: m

727
00:33:16,542 –> 00:33:21,454
[kim_o_brien]: goes deeper and i think it’s a
very good one in that it’s how do

728
00:33:21,534 –> 00:33:21,915
[kim_o_brien]: we get

729
00:33:22,125 –> 00:33:23,064
[paul_tyler]: yeah

730
00:33:22,336 –> 00:33:31,414
[kim_o_brien]: advisors recognize that value the customer for
the customer how do we get the investment

731
00:33:31,614 –> 00:33:40,088
[kim_o_brien]: biased if you will to recognize that
um and and that’s that’s a harder nut

732
00:33:40,369 –> 00:33:50,065
[kim_o_brien]: i think because they do have a
bias towards the investment accumulation but today in

733
00:33:50,145 –> 00:33:58,151
[kim_o_brien]: today’s world and why annuity sales flying
right now is because of the security of

734
00:33:58,211 –> 00:33:59,032
[kim_o_brien]: the marketplace

735
00:33:58,965 –> 00:33:59,227
[paul_tyler]: oh

736
00:33:59,553 –> 00:34:04,822
[kim_o_brien]: and the insecurity of the political climate
right now and so sales have just been

737
00:34:04,882 –> 00:34:05,603
[kim_o_brien]: booming because

738
00:34:05,505 –> 00:34:06,495
[paul_tyler]: yes

739
00:34:05,764 –> 00:34:08,929
[kim_o_brien]: obviously consumers are choosing protection

740
00:34:08,805 –> 00:34:09,027
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:34:09,410 –> 00:34:10,016
[kim_o_brien]: guarantees

742
00:34:10,845 –> 00:34:16,735
[paul_tyler]: yeah well there was a great discussion
on the panel and these were not cares

743
00:34:16,775 –> 00:34:20,261
[paul_tyler]: these are im o talking about where
should product

744
00:34:20,031 –> 00:34:20,640
[kim_o_brien]: don’t do that

745
00:34:20,481 –> 00:34:28,154
[paul_tyler]: designs head and you know kim there
was one voice very strongly saying that these

746
00:34:28,194 –> 00:34:33,984
[paul_tyler]: are contracts they’re not investments you know
there’s no reason why we have this regulatory

747
00:34:34,064 –> 00:34:39,393
[paul_tyler]: structure and the zero is our hero
you know in this business and you know

748
00:34:39,433 –> 00:34:45,363
[paul_tyler]: then we had another voice on the
on the discussion saying you know we should

749
00:34:45,683 –> 00:34:52,595
[paul_tyler]: actually you know takes take stock what’s
happening to rilla market and maybe we should

750
00:34:52,895 –> 00:34:56,642
[paul_tyler]: have protections up to a certain point
and that’s not it’s not a slippery slope

751
00:34:56,722 –> 00:35:02,031
[paul_tyler]: leading us into investments i mean do
you have any strong opinion about where the

752
00:35:02,091 –> 00:35:09,904
[paul_tyler]: industry should head should we say where
we’re about protecting principle full stop or start

753
00:35:09,964 –> 00:35:14,073
[paul_tyler]: to compete in the independent space a
little more with where the ryle designs are

754
00:35:14,093 –> 00:35:17,595
[paul_tyler]: headed yeah

755
00:35:18,311 –> 00:35:24,406
[kim_o_brien]: i’m not sure i understood that question
paul exactly but let me take a stab

756
00:35:24,446 –> 00:35:29,736
[kim_o_brien]: and if i miss the mark you
can correct me back but i do think

757
00:35:29,565 –> 00:35:29,912
[paul_tyler]: oh

758
00:35:30,137 –> 00:35:37,708
[kim_o_brien]: that we don’t many a many agents
don’t do as good of a job of

759
00:35:37,908 –> 00:35:44,856
[kim_o_brien]: talking about the protections and the guarantees
they really try to sell the gain

760
00:35:45,228 –> 00:35:45,795
[paul_tyler]: hm

761
00:35:45,660 –> 00:35:47,002
[kim_o_brien]: now this product could do

762
00:35:46,929 –> 00:35:47,094
[paul_tyler]: yes

763
00:35:47,783 –> 00:35:53,793
[kim_o_brien]: you know five percent six percent well
our target when we built them back in

764
00:35:53,893 –> 00:35:58,142
[kim_o_brien]: nineteen ninety five was we wanted to
and the reason the whole end ex market

765
00:35:58,222 –> 00:36:00,050
[kim_o_brien]: became into being was because we

766
00:36:00,105 –> 00:36:00,125
[paul_tyler]: m

767
00:36:00,150 –> 00:36:07,005
[kim_o_brien]: wanted to get a little more out
of the fixed you know portfolio of the

768
00:36:07,065 –> 00:36:11,893
[kim_o_brien]: carrier we wanted to squeeze a little
bit more interest out of that fix the

769
00:36:12,013 –> 00:36:18,424
[kim_o_brien]: carrier portfolio and so that’s how the
index product was born and we always built

770
00:36:18,484 –> 00:36:20,568
[kim_o_brien]: them so that they could probably provide

771
00:36:20,544 –> 00:36:20,565
[paul_tyler]: m

772
00:36:20,628 –> 00:36:25,596
[kim_o_brien]: and they have historically provided one and
a half to two percent more than a

773
00:36:25,676 –> 00:36:26,397
[kim_o_brien]: straight fixed

774
00:36:26,385 –> 00:36:27,105
[paul_tyler]: oh

775
00:36:26,498 –> 00:36:31,876
[kim_o_brien]: if you will traditional fixed or whatever
you want to call it um and even

776
00:36:31,936 –> 00:36:38,066
[kim_o_brien]: the magas um and and i think
they’re still hitting that mark so i can’t

777
00:36:38,167 –> 00:36:41,793
[kim_o_brien]: i don’t think we can oversell the
gain part um and

778
00:36:41,775 –> 00:36:41,795
[paul_tyler]: m

779
00:36:41,833 –> 00:36:43,015
[kim_o_brien]: i think sometimes we

780
00:36:43,005 –> 00:36:43,188
[paul_tyler]: oh

781
00:36:43,115 –> 00:36:46,060
[kim_o_brien]: do as an industry um and we

782
00:36:46,035 –> 00:36:46,357
[paul_tyler]: oh

783
00:36:46,180 –> 00:36:49,726
[kim_o_brien]: really do need to get back to
the elements of you know all

784
00:36:49,575 –> 00:36:50,535
[paul_tyler]: yeah

785
00:36:49,786 –> 00:36:55,380
[kim_o_brien]: of the reasons people buy insurance for
the protection of their home their car you

786
00:36:55,420 –> 00:37:01,552
[kim_o_brien]: know this is to protect their retirement
their income stream in retirement or if they

787
00:37:01,612 –> 00:37:05,796
[kim_o_brien]: have enough income dream from that investment
then this is to protect that

788
00:37:05,715 –> 00:37:06,615
[paul_tyler]: oh

789
00:37:05,936 –> 00:37:13,404
[kim_o_brien]: legacy gift that they’re leaving behind so
protection we think is the whole element of

790
00:37:13,684 –> 00:37:18,289
[kim_o_brien]: our market place and really should be
at the forefront of the sale

791
00:37:19,706 –> 00:37:20,507
[paul_tyler]: yeah well this is

792
00:37:20,774 –> 00:37:20,794
[kim_o_brien]: i

793
00:37:21,329 –> 00:37:21,489
[paul_tyler]: yeah

794
00:37:21,640 –> 00:37:21,882
[kim_o_brien]: answer

795
00:37:21,689 –> 00:37:26,497
[paul_tyler]: yeah and i think the discussion was
well you know should we say you’re not

796
00:37:26,537 –> 00:37:29,302
[paul_tyler]: going to lose any of your principle
or is it okay to say we’ll guarantee

797
00:37:29,382 –> 00:37:32,447
[paul_tyler]: that you’re not going to lose ninety
percent of you principle right so i mean

798
00:37:32,507 –> 00:37:38,157
[paul_tyler]: it’s splitting hairs but i’m with you
cam i like the insurance guarantees rams you

799
00:37:38,197 –> 00:37:39,299
[paul_tyler]: were we’re getting close to

800
00:37:39,937 –> 00:37:40,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:37:40,020 –> 00:37:41,983
[paul_tyler]: ahead of time actually i’ll start with
you bruno

802
00:37:41,820 –> 00:37:41,964
[kim_o_brien]: yes

803
00:37:42,083 –> 00:37:46,096
[paul_tyler]: any last questions or thoughts for kim
oh

804
00:37:46,560 –> 00:37:47,364
[bruno_caron]: no i think we

805
00:37:48,045 –> 00:37:48,226
[paul_tyler]: yah

806
00:37:48,466 –> 00:37:48,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

807
00:37:48,492 –> 00:37:48,512
[kim_o_brien]: a

808
00:37:49,830 –> 00:37:50,311
[bruno_caron]: brought it all

809
00:37:50,204 –> 00:37:50,265
[paul_tyler]: ah

810
00:37:50,772 –> 00:37:51,293
[bruno_caron]: all home with

811
00:37:51,705 –> 00:37:52,251
[paul_tyler]: oh

812
00:37:52,736 –> 00:37:56,905
[bruno_caron]: your last question so that that makes
makes perfect sense but thank you i think

813
00:37:56,925 –> 00:38:01,756
[bruno_caron]: that was that was that was great
keep keep the work up i think that’s

814
00:38:02,097 –> 00:38:05,887
[bruno_caron]: you’re doing great great service for all
of us

815
00:38:07,140 –> 00:38:07,482
[kim_o_brien]: bet ya

816
00:38:07,665 –> 00:38:07,968
[paul_tyler]: ramsey

817
00:38:08,197 –> 00:38:08,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

818
00:38:08,566 –> 00:38:10,434
[kim_o_brien]: i get to talk to the regulators
that’s

819
00:38:10,480 –> 00:38:10,500
[bruno_caron]: m

820
00:38:10,514 –> 00:38:10,936
[kim_o_brien]: my fun

821
00:38:11,317 –> 00:38:11,577
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

822
00:38:11,985 –> 00:38:12,247
[paul_tyler]: oh

823
00:38:12,218 –> 00:38:12,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: so well

824
00:38:13,069 –> 00:38:13,812
[bruno_caron]: m oh

825
00:38:13,379 –> 00:38:15,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: we’ll be we’ll be watching with

826
00:38:15,139 –> 00:38:15,160
[bruno_caron]: h

827
00:38:15,142 –> 00:38:15,322
[ramsey_d_smith]: great

828
00:38:15,345 –> 00:38:15,365
[paul_tyler]: m

829
00:38:15,400 –> 00:38:15,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

830
00:38:15,422 –> 00:38:17,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: interest as you as you proceed with
your

831
00:38:17,895 –> 00:38:18,099
[paul_tyler]: oh

832
00:38:18,887 –> 00:38:20,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: various suits and negotiations

833
00:38:21,165 –> 00:38:22,485
[paul_tyler]: yeah

834
00:38:21,200 –> 00:38:21,384
[bruno_caron]: okay

835
00:38:21,351 –> 00:38:24,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: with you know i mean it’s true
like there’s

836
00:38:24,216 –> 00:38:24,398
[paul_tyler]: yeah

837
00:38:24,376 –> 00:38:27,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s all these different bureaucracies that want
to regulate the

838
00:38:27,435 –> 00:38:27,455
[paul_tyler]: m

839
00:38:27,481 –> 00:38:29,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: industry and it’s already got fifty states
to deal

840
00:38:29,574 –> 00:38:29,595
[paul_tyler]: m

841
00:38:29,665 –> 00:38:32,082
[ramsey_d_smith]: with right minute ah it’s a

842
00:38:32,475 –> 00:38:32,838
[paul_tyler]: oh

843
00:38:33,331 –> 00:38:33,959
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s a big burden

844
00:38:34,970 –> 00:38:38,716
[kim_o_brien]: it’s a big burden and what we’re
working on just so i can make sure

845
00:38:38,756 –> 00:38:42,242
[kim_o_brien]: that we’re not just on the federal
we’re trying to make sure that the n

846
00:38:42,522 –> 00:38:45,607
[kim_o_brien]: c model that we worked so hard
on to make sure there

847
00:38:45,615 –> 00:38:45,635
[paul_tyler]: m

848
00:38:45,627 –> 00:38:47,270
[kim_o_brien]: were elements that we key

849
00:38:47,475 –> 00:38:47,756
[paul_tyler]: oh

850
00:38:47,591 –> 00:38:54,262
[kim_o_brien]: and core to independent distributors and carriers
at support independent distribution we want to make

851
00:38:54,302 –> 00:38:54,442
[kim_o_brien]: sure

852
00:38:54,405 –> 00:38:54,506
[paul_tyler]: yah

853
00:38:54,522 –> 00:38:57,687
[kim_o_brien]: those states adopt them as we wrote

854
00:38:57,550 –> 00:38:58,300
[bruno_caron]: yeah

855
00:38:57,747 –> 00:39:02,997
[kim_o_brien]: them you know an i see so
we deal state by state by tate and

856
00:39:03,057 –> 00:39:07,605
[kim_o_brien]: it’s important and real quick paul on
the one hundred per cent of your money

857
00:39:07,685 –> 00:39:08,887
[kim_o_brien]: is protected versus

858
00:39:08,857 –> 00:39:08,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

859
00:39:08,967 –> 00:39:14,356
[kim_o_brien]: the ninety the only way you lose
money if you leave early

860
00:39:14,517 –> 00:39:14,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

861
00:39:15,780 –> 00:39:16,563
[kim_o_brien]: and the surrender

862
00:39:16,155 –> 00:39:16,457
[paul_tyler]: oh

863
00:39:16,643 –> 00:39:23,074
[kim_o_brien]: period i’ve always argued surrender chart is
the fairest way to the customer

864
00:39:22,935 –> 00:39:23,805
[paul_tyler]: oh

865
00:39:23,554 –> 00:39:24,155
[kim_o_brien]: to charge

866
00:39:24,375 –> 00:39:24,700
[paul_tyler]: oh

867
00:39:24,496 –> 00:39:30,967
[kim_o_brien]: for leaving early because other ways you
could charge through fees through every product this

868
00:39:31,207 –> 00:39:34,145
[kim_o_brien]: only hits the customer chooses to leave
early

869
00:39:34,715 –> 00:39:35,257
[paul_tyler]: i like that

870
00:39:35,210 –> 00:39:36,723
[kim_o_brien]: every other way in which you

871
00:39:36,802 –> 00:39:36,942
[paul_tyler]: yeah

872
00:39:38,200 –> 00:39:39,481
[kim_o_brien]: you build a product

873
00:39:39,075 –> 00:39:40,014
[paul_tyler]: yeh

874
00:39:40,402 –> 00:39:41,783
[kim_o_brien]: every other actuarial way

875
00:39:41,865 –> 00:39:42,129
[paul_tyler]: yeah

876
00:39:41,924 –> 00:39:43,445
[kim_o_brien]: to put money in to protect

877
00:39:43,425 –> 00:39:43,445
[paul_tyler]: m

878
00:39:43,525 –> 00:39:50,701
[kim_o_brien]: the carrier from leaving early hits everybody
surrender charges only hits the person that leaves

879
00:39:50,862 –> 00:39:52,408
[kim_o_brien]: and chooses to leave early

880
00:39:53,305 –> 00:39:56,791
[paul_tyler]: i like that well thanks so much
for joining we obviously gonna have to have

881
00:39:56,811 –> 00:39:59,155
[paul_tyler]: you back especially as some of

882
00:39:59,153 –> 00:39:59,314
[kim_o_brien]: love

883
00:39:59,175 –> 00:39:59,315
[paul_tyler]: these

884
00:39:59,374 –> 00:39:59,434
[kim_o_brien]: it

885
00:39:59,596 –> 00:40:06,207
[paul_tyler]: yeah as events progress what’s the best
way for people find out more about your

886
00:40:06,227 –> 00:40:10,314
[paul_tyler]: organization follow it may be supported if
you’re an independent agent

887
00:40:12,270 –> 00:40:16,395
[kim_o_brien]: we’re at fact choice so it’s w
w w dot f a c

888
00:40:16,545 –> 00:40:17,295
[paul_tyler]: oh

889
00:40:17,156 –> 00:40:22,326
[kim_o_brien]: choice spelled out dot com i’m kim
fact choice dot com

890
00:40:22,355 –> 00:40:26,141
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right hey bruno thanks ramsey
thanks and

891
00:40:26,190 –> 00:40:26,513
[bruno_caron]: thank you

892
00:40:26,810 –> 00:40:27,580
[kim_o_brien]: nice to see you

893
00:40:27,503 –> 00:40:33,393
[paul_tyler]: yeah i got some great feedback in
request for future guests at kim out at

894
00:40:33,433 –> 00:40:36,999
[paul_tyler]: the conference send it to us you
know the people you’d like to get on

895
00:40:37,560 –> 00:40:40,785
[paul_tyler]: send us notes and well we’ll make
it happen all right hey thanks so much

896
00:40:40,846 –> 00:40:41,066
[paul_tyler]: on join

897
00:40:40,980 –> 00:40:41,100
[kim_o_brien]: you

898
00:40:41,106 –> 00:40:41,326
[paul_tyler]: us again

899
00:40:41,341 –> 00:40:41,382
[kim_o_brien]: if

900
00:40:41,386 –> 00:40:41,547
[paul_tyler]: next

901
00:40:41,442 –> 00:40:42,787
[kim_o_brien]: you need any help let me know

902
00:40:42,709 –> 00:40:48,041
[paul_tyler]: okay m i will take you up
on that so listen thanks for listening join

903
00:40:48,102 –> 00:40:51,012
[paul_tyler]: us again next week for another episode
of that annuity show

904
00:40:50,947 –> 00:40:53,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah yah

Nick DesrocherEpisode 166: Keeping Annuity Regulations Rational with Kim O’Brien
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7 Things To Know About Social Security and Retirement for 2022

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Given that a recent GOBankingRates survey found that 23% of Americans have nothing saved for retirement, it’s clear that many will be relying on Social Security to fund their golden years. And even if you do have retirement savings, you’ll want to be strategic about taking your benefits in a way that’s optimal for you.

You Shouldn’t Rely on Social Security To Fund Your Whole Retirement

If you’re expecting Social Security to fully fund your retirement, you could be in for a rude awakening. The average monthly benefit is $1,542.22 as of June 2022.

“Social Security today only covers a portion of the average American’s expected income needs in retirement,” said Henry Yoshida, CFP and CEO of Rocket Dollar, an investment platform that allows individual investors to use tax-advantaged funds for alternative investing.

If you’re in that 23% of Americans who have nothing saved, start saving ASAP so that you’ll be in better financial standing when you reach retirement age.

Delaying Taking Your Benefits Can Pay Off

You can start to collect Social Security benefits at age 62, but it may pay off for you to wait.

“If you are able to delay taking Social Security after eligibility, you can significantly increase the income [compared to] that minimum amount at the earliest possible access date,” Yoshida said. “For example, if you take Social Security at 62 and your income is $2,364, if you can wait to access Social Security until age 70, the income is $4,194.”

However, Waiting Until Age 70 Isn’t Always the Best Option

It’s true that if you delay taking Social Security until age 70, the amount you receive will be larger than if you start receiving your benefits before, but this doesn’t mean this is always the best option.

“You need to evaluate how that decision impacts your asset balances over time,” said Emily Casey Rassam, senior financial planner at Archer Investment Management. “If you look at the complete picture, which includes a projection of your investment portfolio balance over time, it may make more sense for you to take Social Security earlier. Often, if you delay Social Security until age 70, you are drawing down assets significantly, and that can hurt your long-term asset trajectory. Like all financial decisions, a comprehensive financial plan can tell the whole story and help you make decisions with all of the relevant data organized.

65 Isn’t the Full Retirement Age for Everyone

When deciding when to collect Social Security, it’s important to understand what you’ll receive at what age.

“Age 62 is the earliest you can take benefits. For every year an individual delays taking benefits beyond their full retirement age — which varies depending on when you were born — through age 70, the annual benefit increases by 8%,” said Richard Freeman, senior director and wealth advisor at Round Table Wealth Management. “Conversely, for every year an individual takes benefits earlier than their full retirement age, their annual benefit is decreased 8%.”

Freeman said that his clients often assume their full retirement age is 65, but this is not always the case. If you were born in 1943 or later, your full retirement age ranges from 66 to 67.

Your Benefits Are Calculated Based on your 35 Highest-Earning Years

It’s important to understand how the Social Security Administration calculates your benefit amount.

“The primary insurance amount — or amount you get based on your own record — is based on the worker’s highest 35 years of earnings,” said Herman “Tommy” Thompson, Jr., a certified financial planner with Innovative Financial Group in Atlanta. “Most people think it’s based on your last five years. I’ve been talking about Social Security for 18 years and every time I say this, someone is surprised!”

Your Spouse (or Former Spouse) Can Impact Your Benefit Amount

Thompson said it’s important to understand how benefits are calculated when you are the surviving spouse.

“When a spouse dies, the higher Social Security amount remains for the [surviving] spouse, assuming they were married for at least nine months,” he said. “Not half. Not both. The higher remains. Widows and widowers can claim as early as age 60.”

And if you are divorced, you may be able to claim your ex-spouse’s benefits.

“A divorcee can still claim on an ex-spouse’s record if: (1) The individual is at least 62, (2) they were married for at least 10 years, (3) the individual is currently unmarried and (4) the ex-spouse is receiving a benefit or has been divorced for at least two years,” Thompson said.

Social Security (Probably) Won’t Run Out

You’ve likely seen headlines about Social Security running out in 2035 — but this is a worst-case scenario and not something that should cause you to panic. However, you may need to adjust your retirement plans depending on how the gap in funding will be bridged.

“The death of Social Security has been greatly exaggerated,” said Paul Tyler of Nassau Financial Group in Hartford, Connecticut. “If Congress doesn’t add additional funds to the trust, payroll taxes on current workers will continue to support the program. However, the taxes would not fund 100% of the expected benefits. The gap could be closed by imposing means testing, deferring full retirement ages beyond 67 or increasing taxes on benefits. Any of these modifications would require many people to adjust their retirement plans.”

Read More: https://www.yahoo.com/video/social-security-retirement-7-things-110023638.html

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick Desrocher7 Things To Know About Social Security and Retirement for 2022
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