2022

Episode 177: Finding The Emotional Side of Financial Planning With Jamie Hopkins

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Our emotional relationship with money is complex. How we feel about it often shapes how we spend and how we save it. Joining us today is Jamie Hopkins, Managing Partner of Wealth Solutions at Carson Group and co-author of “Find Your Freedom – Financial Planning for a Life on Purpose”. Jamie talks about how advisors and clients need to rethink  goals and processes for a successful planning outcome. We also sneak in Jamie’s great perspective on the recently-passed SECURE Act 2.0.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.carsongroup.com/news/financial-planning-for-a-life-on-purpose-jamie-hopkins-ron-carson-release-new-book/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-hopkins-esq-llm-cfp%C2%AE-chfc%C2%AE-clu%C2%AE-ricp%C2%AE-022a502a/

https://www.jamiehopkins.com

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

paul_tyler:
i this is paul tyler and welcome to another episode of the annuity show and we have our full crew here today bruno welcome from the north

bruno_caron:
good morning thank you

paul_tyler:
ramsey you’re looking very very

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
professional today on a friday

ramsey_d_smith:
and i’m north of where i

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
usually am i’m in new york instead of atlanta it’s always always

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
glad to be on the

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
show

bruno_caron:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
and back in new york

paul_tyler:
tis good to see you so

tisa_rabun_marshall:
morning

paul_tyler:
they was today was momentous we crossed the billion dollar sales threshold which we were all kind of the sweating for the last last few months here but it

tisa_rabun_marshall:
little

paul_tyler:
was big

tisa_rabun_marshall:
virtual

paul_tyler:
er

tisa_rabun_marshall:
pep rally this morning was

paul_tyler:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
a nice way to start on friday

ramsey_d_smith:
gratulations guys that’s

paul_tyler:
yeah

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
fantastic

tisa_rabun_marshall:
thank

paul_tyler:
so it

tisa_rabun_marshall:
you

paul_tyler:
was

bruno_caron:
well

paul_tyler:
it

bruno_caron:
then

paul_tyler:
was a big deal for you know where we started a few years ago where we are

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

paul_tyler:
today but it was has it been an interesting mark at the last six to nine months we have a great guest on factor returning guest and today and we

bruno_caron:
a

paul_tyler:
have on our show jamie hopkins

bruno_caron:
oh

paul_tyler:
who almost needs some introduction for our audience but is managing

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
nor of wealth solutions

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
at carson group and co

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
author of a new book called find

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
your freedom financial planning for life on purpose life of purpose

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
jamie welcome

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
paul and team ramsey t s bruno good to see everyone

paul_tyler:
yeah

bruno_caron:
good to see you

paul_tyler:
lots you know i guess lots changed some hasn’t you know i think we had you on the show back just right

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
right when we

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
were sort of headed nose

bruno_caron:
oh

paul_tyler:
first

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
into the demic right

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
there

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
was a pandemic paul you know that

bruno_caron:
ah uh

paul_tyler:
there was

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
the books books say it i think we were you know talking about you know all of the type of

jamie_hopkins:
no

paul_tyler:
adaptation that has to take place and

jamie_hopkins:
hm

paul_tyler:
so today listen we’d like to cover couple of topics one is when i talk to you about our book um love to get your perspective on know what has changed and not changed in the last couple of years as your

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
talking to you advisors and then you know topic i think that’s on everybody’s mind the new secure act you know coming out out of congress so

jamie_hopkins:
hm

paul_tyler:
with that i think talk a little bit about the book you actually first chapter or second chapter

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
leads out about you say financial plan is personal is very deeply personal store what was yours and and

ramsey_d_smith:
yah

paul_tyler:
love to hear some of the back story here

jamie_hopkins:
yeah well we can i’ll get to my story yeah the book’s been fun i talk a little bit about the process of it because i think that was a good lesson in it is actually started a book last year an got about half way through and ended up scrapping the whole thing and then writing this one so i scrapped half a book which feels if you’ve ever written anything is like you know when you talk about sunk costs like that was one where you’re like shot i just finished this and it was just the wrong book and so we scraped that and then i wrote you know find your freedom and that hit wall street journal best seller i think you know maybe two three weeks ago so that’s awesome it’s exciting just to see it actually kind of pick up steam and resonate with people and yeah roan shared a little bit of his

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
story in the book you know more of the book my story honestly if you if you read it what you’ll see is you know ron’s kind of adding pieces and it’s more of a journey along where my path has gone and so i started off just with you know the loss of my dad at an early age it is eight years old and kind of some of the trauma that comes along with that and sharing different family dynamics and my experience s with money and gifting and scarcity mind set young age and you know my dad did construction and past the passed away did gutters and you know fell off of a roof when it was icing up and you know passed away and i was eight years old and kind of left my family in a very difficult situation which is not you know it’s not uncommon out there like since i wrote the book it’s actually a really kind of powerful thing is i’ve just gotten a lot of emails with people sharing their own stories of lost loved ones and it’s not always parents sometimes it’s sisters or brothers but it’s it gives people that permission to open up about that because often you know that stuff we’re kind of like told like you shouldn’t talk about it and i don’t know that many people have much

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
education

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
or training or experience like how to deal with people grieving

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
it actually came up this

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
morning we had an advisor that lost two clients and mean passing away in the last two weeks of the year and we were just talking about like all this stuff that we kind of naturally do that’s kind of wrong like we try to pat people and tell them it’s okay which is like the wrong way to roach somebody grieving right you’re actually kind of what you’re actually naturally doing there is reacting and saying like you’re making me uncomfortable so please calm down right like that’s actually what you’re doing in that moment and people generally speak don’t like that if you look at a lot of the research it’s more like you don’t touch people it’s more like hey i’m listening you’re active you lean in you know it’s more on that side of things and we don’t always react well with that but it’s interesting just seeing these messages come through you know since i’ve read the book and put it out there

ramsey_d_smith:
he i mean that’s a that’s an interesting that’s an interesting life lesson and it speaks to it speaks to how there’s like so much interaction in this space between between this of the quantitative and but the financial part of it and the emotional elements and it’s really it’s really it’s really hard to be effective in this space in the personal finance pate if you don’t sort of navigate both of those

jamie_hopkins:
hm

ramsey_d_smith:
both of those tracks so thank you for sharing that that’s remarkable

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
it was one of the things i got wrong about the first book ramsey as i wrote the whole first book like it was like a text book on financial planning

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
like i just dove right in to planning and numbers i had all these spread sheets that i was working on and i was like like i might like this but like man this is boring and so when i re read the book the whole first half of it is like what is freedom mean to you what’s your relationship with money what’s the trauma that you’ve survive through you know what are the experiences that you don’t want to have or do want to pass

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
along to your children and airs and know what’s the legacy you want to leave behind so that’s the whole front half it’s really there’s you now no talk numbers or finances really it’s about you as a person and finding that level

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
of freedom and happiness

ramsey_d_smith:
and so in terms of terms of now you’ve you’ve done that in the book in terms of how you how do you how you apply that how do you apply that

bruno_caron:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
with your your day to day business at carson like so with the advisors that you like you essentially

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
advise the advisors

jamie_hopkins:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
how do you navigate that with you know with a with a hyperforming set of advisors that carson

jamie_hopkins:
it’s been fun so a lot of people look at things like a book and it’s part of a much bigger strategy right like i wrote a book this time for a very particular purpose which was to my view like codify our approach to financial planning at carson for clients prospects and i mean advisors to write like anyone who wants to kind of know what it is and so the second half the books really the financial planning process that we use at carson and what we kind of expect from a planning promise now that was like what i would say is like the retail side of codifying it internally we had something that we call approving process which is our systems and processes for

ramsey_d_smith:
yes

jamie_hopkins:
financial planning inside of

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
carson and that’s where our technic rates like work flows into our training integrates and then we’ve actually built out internally the book find your freedom we have a find your freedom planing process for advisors too so they can actually like la ridge pieces of the book with their clients and then how that ties back to all the resources we have so if we you know one of the chapters later on we talk about long term care so then in that work area for advice ere’s inside of carson you’ve got training materials you’ve got like the fact finding spread sheets if you want to go out and talk to somebody about long term care then we’ve got the resources that we have internally and then the tools to anna is it so for the advisor side we’ve actually built all of that on the back and so they’ve

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
systematized their practice

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
and that’s really where ran i mean the reason that we’re all sitting here too is like you know ran built this amazing firm on the west side right he was the now i think that you guys were talingabout the billion dollar celebration which is amazing and ryan always tells this story about a l p l back in the nineties ryan was the first or at least at l p t hit twenty five million of advisory assets right and the l p l threw a party it was his big celebyouknow because like that was first he was like this trail blaze around nowadays right people get a single client with fifty million of advisors

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
but he built this whole process and that’s really where we kind of came about and so i sit across wealth solutions now which is everything kind of financial planning oriented and we still

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
have that as core which is coaching and process and we believe in those two things and putting clients first and i think as long as you do that it’s not just in this world but in most areas of the world you’ll see success right you deliver value and you articulate value and you have a repeatable way to do that and then you know that’s where businesses grow

bruno_caron:
that’s great and in your book you somewhat frame and you bring forward the fact that your personal back ground has a lot to do with how you’re going to manage money m are there any common nominators or any ways to frame you different category of various people are various schools of thoughts that are that are out there

jamie_hopkins:
yeah so i would say just like with clients or advisers

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
or even your own life there’s a lot

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
of bucketing or segmentation or mental accounts whichever term you want to use going

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
on all the time so know when i look at advisors you know we run a coaching program at carson we got about twelve hundred firms that use carson coaching but they’re all over the place you have growers you’ve got lifestyle businesses you’ve got people that really want to acquire and then their approaches to how they operate their business are very different you know you have some that have to

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
be really great general managers you know you want to have nineteen different offices all over the country you take a very different approach to the person who wants to work with thirty five clients and then if you’re thinking about individuals i think the really interesting thing how what

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
i

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
save domain specific we

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
are and a lot of times you like oh like that’s a brilliant person like i look at rams like man ramses such a smart guy but there’s probably a couple

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
of areas where like erybody on the show would be like ramsey really knows nothing about this like he’s really smart in some areas right but like the semariis like he’s probably not

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
as sharp and

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
it’s the same for me like i know like you know i’ve never this is when kind of silly but i’ve never played a game of baseball in my entire life i’m a pretty good athlete it was a two sport division one athlete i could probably learn to play baseball but like i can’t catch with a glove on i can catch without a glove on i can’t you know i can’t hit i can’t do any of those things in baseball but right i was you now captain of a division

bruno_caron:
a

jamie_hopkins:
one scholarship athlete like i’m a good athlete or i was you know i’m old but you know i was very domain specific there and when i think about my knowledge i am pretty good in financial planing tax areas if you take me into the c f a world and analyzing funds i can’t analyze a fund

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
for you in any

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
meaningful way so even in our world i become very domain specific and then when you look at individuals doing their planning

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
they might be do like risk tolerant in one area of their life and completely risk a verse in another and i find that to be super interesting even inside of like retirement accounts versus their play funds people behave so differently you know i’m fairly like i would say an investing like i personally

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
don’t mind taking on a lot of risk but then when you look at other areas of my behavior i don’t exhibit that same aspect like i don’t like gifting a lot of money i’m not very frivolous on that side i like more certainty when it comes to certain areas and so yeah the domains of

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
people and approaches whether it’s planning or business

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
or your own investing it’s very different for a lot of different people and i think the main take away in the book is like that’s perfectly okay to your question bruno is like it’s okay like and you can give yourself permission to do it differently than your neighbor does if that’s what makes you happy you don’t have to do it the same way that i do or some you know talking

ramsey_d_smith:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
ahead on t v does

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
or what congress tells you to do either i like you can do it your way where you find your freedom oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
so i’ll jump in and have a kind of a follow up question to that what do you think it’s kind of your opinion on the influence or the impact of setting that style you mentioned like the scarcity mind set of growing up and experiencing a last early obviously had an income impact to your household is it how your parents raised you

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
and what their savings patterns where is it your level of success you make more money so you can make different decisions what do you think is the biggest sort of influence or combination of influences that set that that risk tolerance in that mind set

jamie_hopkins:
it’s such an amazing

tisa_rabun_marshall:
i

jamie_hopkins:
question and i don’t think that there’s a simple

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
answer to this but there are

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
some things that you know from research out there and then some of the things i feel like i’ve learned at least my expec it’s just

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
tell me and you

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yes

jamie_hopkins:
actually have both so you have this you know the saying like that apple doesn’t fall far from the tree or whatever which is this

tisa_rabun_marshall:
m

jamie_hopkins:
idea of like you know you have some natural habitat which is forming your experiences in life i mean that’s kind of what it’s talking about right like gravity maybe if on the top of the hill it can roll the way down to hell that maybe if you get really lucky some animal picks you up and carries you another fit feet and like but that’s kind of it right like we’ve extended like the furthest out version

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
they may be fallen to a river and but like you can you can move

tisa_rabun_marshall:
m

jamie_hopkins:
but it’s not easy and so a lot of this stuff is i always say our and is it i don’t

ramsey_d_smith:
okay

jamie_hopkins:
necessarily define us

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yes

jamie_hopkins:
but they do drive us and so it’s this idea of like where that came from is driving us but you do have people that react the opposite that their parents or grandparents react and that’s this idea of you know kind of generational experience s being passed on and there are some researcheses that try ma in a family can be passed on for up to eight generations which is tremendous when you think about that i see more clearly three but i totally

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
understand wherein cases right like um you

tisa_rabun_marshall:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
know if you talk about slavery in the united states clearly there’s generational that’s more than three that we’re still having impacts of that today right like that’s

tisa_rabun_marshall:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
pretty clear we see that uh but other cases maybe three generations is more normal for some trauma and but like i used the example of my mom and my grandmother in the book and neither one of them are happy about that by the way to like

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
it’s caused like an internal you

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
fight because i’m

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
like they love gifting and the book came out by christmas and there you’re scrooge and like the the

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
way that they express love is to buy gifts for their family members right and that’s

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
how they express love i however don’t like gifting now like i’m not a huge fan of giving gifts it’s not the way i express love even though i understand that like for my mom that’s super important and

tisa_rabun_marshall:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
you know i don’t want to stop her from doing that but it’s explaining that like hey like i don’t get the same enjoyment you did so i kind of had like the counteraction of that but if you look at my mom she clearly inherited that from my grandmother to my aunts are identical they all love christmas and going big and every year they say they’re gonna spend less and they spend more right in that but they love

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
it and i don’t want to take that away

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
from them but that’s one that’s passed on then for me it changed right like my experiences were enough different that i had a different reaction to that so it definitely does influence us it drives us it’s not all inherited that we’re going to be the same as the previous generation and then i think ultimately you know we probably focus in the behavioral world too much on changing the individual and not enough on changing the environment and i think that’s a really important lesson the more i spent in the behavial world and change be if you’re is that we usually say like well how can we make bruno or paul act differently the reality is it’s really hard to make a person

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
act differently what we have to do is change the environment that they’re in and then more likely to see behavior change so the best example of that in our retirement world has been the four o one k retirement plan automatic enrolment and autoescalation is that we actually accepted

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
the fact that no matter how much education we did and t v ads and pamphlets and to lunches to get people to learn about it we couldn’t change individual behavior to save more that like most of

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
that stuff kind of went to waste

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
it was not very efficient or effective and then we decided to do i change the environment and so by changing the environment we created a different system right that allowed people to save more by giving them choice too but then they didn’t make the choice right we just let things be but that is actually a true example

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
of how we change

ramsey_d_smith:
m oh

jamie_hopkins:
the environment and not the individual to change the behavior and i think that we skipped that a lot and if you the more it’s just interesting because in the behavioral research world the actual research world they’re very focused on the environmental factors when we get the personal finance it’s kind of like the game a telephone and we’ve liked to or did it three times and

tisa_rabun_marshall:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
like we have like a variation of what the research actually said but

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
we do tend to put too much of it back on

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
individuals which i think is interesting and maybe it’s just because we and personal finance and we deal with individuals so we want to take those lessons and apply them to people but a lot of that research is actually about system and how do you change systems not how do you change in individuals behavior so i know i kind of went way off there

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
tis but

tisa_rabun_marshall:
no

jamie_hopkins:
hopefully it’s

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
somewhat

tisa_rabun_marshall:
that’s

jamie_hopkins:
valuable

tisa_rabun_marshall:
good and

bruno_caron:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
to your point right that’s what

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
the new legislation

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
is doing it’s changing the environment

jamie_hopkins:
hm

tisa_rabun_marshall:
um

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
and then hopefully

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
you know behavior shift based on those construct

paul_tyler:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
if you will

paul_tyler:
now

tisa_rabun_marshall:
thanks

paul_tyler:
his generation al your your

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
generational hero legacy really does

ramsey_d_smith:
kay

paul_tyler:
shape

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
how you look at money and

jamie_hopkins:
hm

paul_tyler:
it is

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
interesting jamie the holidays bringing out

ramsey_d_smith:
okay

paul_tyler:
like you know i i’m gonna say my mother really was a child of the depression and it was just fresh still right and then my wife’s family

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
had very very different background and just the christmas traditions are so different it’s it’s it’s it’s kind of facceting but very important for an advisor to understand that i mean think if i were

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
working with rams or tea

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
to be able to communicate

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yes

paul_tyler:
that level would make me much more powerful adviser i’ve watched ran on linked in i love his content i mean i would not look at his ontentand say he’s a financial advisor i think he’s more of a life coach

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
now how how

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
how are you thinking

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
about you know the future

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
you know your future advisor

ramsey_d_smith:
m oh

paul_tyler:
what are the skills or firm

tisa_rabun_marshall:
oh

paul_tyler:
you mentioned you know some persons good you know some people go to tennis some people are good at baseball um how does how does the dadanmac shift if trying to get you know me to really trust give you the information trust you but really

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

paul_tyler:
let you help me unwind some of these things that may be leading me down the wrong financial path

jamie_hopkins:
it’s a great question and you know this is the third run i’ve known now to you know there was a run that looked a lot like

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
the original financial advisor right

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

bruno_caron:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
the run today is a little bit and that and his role shifted right he’s you know i think he still has a couple clients

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
that he works with that are fairly large he’s had for a long time but for the most part he’s delegated those out and that’s i wrote that week growth for him yesterday and ended up with thirty nine different things that in my chicken scratch in this note book here i still write everything in a book but that could help advisors grow and i thought the super interesting when i ended up with thirty nine was you know they’re not all like not everybody would use all thirty nine right like but all thirty nine of them i kind of took

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
away an advisor working with us

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
somebody would benefit

ramsey_d_smith:
m m

jamie_hopkins:
from all thirty nine um when you think about advisors and growth and i mentioned a little this before was you know you have to deliver value you’ve got to be able to articulate value but then growth is kind of that rate s volume like how much of it can you do at what rate and ultimately in our space one of the biggest challenges for advisors to grow is time because our profession is still very client equal some amount of time right like different advisors spend different amounts of time with them pretty much they all equal if you’re in the personal advisory world and you’re an advisor a client equals some amount of your time so how do you delegate away and free up as much time as

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
possible to do the thing that deliver the most value in so whether that’s becoming the rain maker lead advisor and you’re not really working with a lot of clients day to day and you’re outsourcing some of that in sourcing it and then daily tasks like are you the one doing trades and what we’ve seen is you know from carson’s perspective when we’ve brought on advisors you know when i joined we were about seventy people we have three hundred fifty in the home office

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
and we went from you know six billion and seven thousand households to forty five thousand households in the last like five years

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
and so just kind of exploded and a lot of advisors have come on board but it’s taking a lot of that other stuff away so they can focus

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
on being an advisor and sometimes it’s challenging and ron’s great at this is chall is the mentality of like so you think that picking all the stocks is really what adds value to your clients and you know

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
a lot of advisers are still out there doing that and really what you are doing in that situation ninety five percent of the time is just putting a time restraint on the ability for you to deliver value and impact more people and so you run into those advisors and they’re not growing as fast as other people are growing and they’re wondering why and you look at their day and you said well eighty per cent of your day has nothing to do with the true value you deliver so you need to get rid of eighty per cent of that day and then you have the capacity now to four x your value right and so that’s usually where it starts it’s kind of where our coaching drove from and then i think a really other interesting area of growth opportunity for advisor out there today and i talked about this with some of our about forty advisors on the call right before i hopped on here was like paying attention to wallet share i run into advisors all the time they think they have a lot more wiletshare they do you know ted who at the time i think was doing about the best out there of collecting wilt share they had about seventeen to eighteen percent of a client’s willet share so if you were like working with a major custody and your client’s money is all at one you probably don’t have right like it’s just it’s just math right like you can’t have a hundred per cent like all these advisors can’t have a hundred per cent custodian when the custodians look at and realize

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
they have eighteen per cent right like it just doesn’t work you probably have a lot less of their wild chair than you even think you do and sometimes you know when you really dive into it five six years later like oh i didn’t know you had three other advisors right like yeah i’ve got a hundred thousand here and fifty thousand here and even when they’re doing planning sometimes that stuff you know sits outside of the review and i think the more planning you do and i don’t know who is saying this earlier but the more listening you do in those situations the better when you just talk a lot that’s when you don’t get the answers back to that ah there are some you know technologies out there now that are allowing you to see those held away assets more clearly so you can have those conversations too about like hey we see this is for here do you want help with that or even just wrap that number into the planning even if we’re not managing it is helpful

ramsey_d_smith:
so i would love to to transition a bit and spend a little time talking about secure two point o you’ve you’ve been very prolific already on on on link den you know sharing what you think are some of the critical of i think there’s a hundred different modifications that have been

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
made in the retirement space and you highlighted some of the more important ones but you brought

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
up auto rollant earlier as sort of a key element and it seems to me that that’s a it’s also enhancing that particular function is also a part of the secure two point would love to get your take on what you think the issues are and key opportunities for really for participants and for advisors

jamie_hopkins:
i’ll try to dive into that bit you know one thing i will kind of put a caveat around

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
right now is that you know even though you said i’ve been prolific i think i’ve done three presentations i’ve got three different dab

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
and i don’t know all this other stuff i wrote twenty eight pages on it the very first

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
day it came out so that was like and i woke up the next morning at seven thirty a m and presented and i was like that’s probably the first power point presentation that was done on it was that morning at seven thirty a m because it was you know about twenty four hours when the first version of it dropped but we’re going to figure out planning portunities with this throughout the year some of it will come down

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
to when the is department of la labor treasury which is tied to the i s but when they start giving us more guidance and some of the rags here it will open up or shut down certain planning opportunities but when you think about a hundred plus provisions uh it’s pretty tremendous and you know it’s probably the a really big

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
retirement

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
you know i would say modification kind of this one secure act pension protection act i don’t see another one in the next coming years now like this what we’re going to go to coming up now is the self security medic are type conversation s less so about modifications to the existing system so i think that’s the good news is change on this side has been a lot in the last couple of years expected to slow down for a while now most of the bills that have been floating around in d c directly related to this i think we’re kind of we’ve had enough of that right now there’s probably six really big areas of planning opportunity in there so i kind of start with those if we want to dive into them so the first one is just look r m d s are changing again so that’s a big that’s a big part of it right you were seventy three already now this year we’ll go to seventy five and about a decade gives people more time to push off take with draws out the reality is that will impact some people it’s not super clear on the like that’s that provision alone is not like going to live up to the secure name setting every community up for retirement enhancement even at age seven and a half i think it was like only about eighteen percent of people didn’t take out more than their arm d at that point see two i don’t know the is has ever given us data but it’s less than eighteen per cent and then seventy five will be something less than that and then also remember only about two thirds of americans have anything save for retirement at all so we’re talking about eighteen percent of two thirds of america and then you know ten percent of two so we might be talking about five less than five percent of people that end up being impacted by that type of change now for advisors clients it’s like half your clients so it’s much more substantial when you get to the advisory world

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
of the impact gives more opportunity for wrath conversion but it does open up conversations about do you need to take more

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
out anyway even if all of these are pushed off that we’re doing conversions

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
we’re just taking distributions under the ten year distribution rule for a lot inherited accounts it’s

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
not clear that the best strategy is

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
just push off everything into the future because you could be actually creating a bigger tax explosion at the end now by cramming all these assets into this tax defer distributed over a shorter period of time in a potentially higher

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
tax rate environment than we’ve ever seen before which i think is how most people feel i don’t talk to very many people who are like i expect taxes to be low or in ten years i just i’ve never run in like if i get in a room full of a hundred people and i say raise your hand if you think taxes are gonna be lower in ten years nobody raises her hand it’s just not what the macro environment is looking like in them country so deferring taxes too long right now might not be the best thing huge planning opportunity there when it comes to the plan side there’s you know that’s where most of the provision changes are i will say if you haven’t really dove into it really honestly like these are pretty good common sense changes from congress i know shocking everybody feels like is he really being honest there yes like these are pretty common sense changes they mostly make plans

ramsey_d_smith:
yah

jamie_hopkins:
more efficient more easy to run more flexibility right simplifying down things that added a lot of complexity to the industry that is good i mean like just across the board five years this simplifies

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
some of the stuff in the plan world even requiring simplified roll over forms and standardization there like that is good for everybody that didn’t benefit a single entity out there by having complex role of reforms annuities especially lax got boost in probably two different areas at least the aggregation rules around r m des and i raised that’s a super complex area and they did simplify that down it doesn’t penalize annuities as much which i think is interesting i haven’t spent enough time to figure out the impact on at

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
and q lax nobody’s written

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
on it nobody’s really discussed it yet but it’s there too and it’s kind of that’s a side endeavor they did improve q x by removing the

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
twenty five per cent account uh you know aggregation total amount you could put in and increasing the total amount that you could send into premiums so i’d say those are two good things added some abilities for some additional

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
writers to go on a new it is and not

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
run a foul of

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
r m d rules

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
so annuities got to boost in here inside the plan so definitely an opportunity

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
to find more creative annuity lifetime incomes solutions and put more money into inside of your qualified

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
plan arena so i hit three there i will pause i did say i have six but i know that’s a lot so i don’t know if we want to hit any of them or you want me to just you know i can talk on this stuff days and days and days so we don’t have that time

ramsey_d_smith:
perhaps on the on the elements that the elements that are conducive to sort of broader employer participation in the space so multi multi employer plans and like i think that’s a i think that’s sort of an important development

jamie_hopkins:
it is and you know that was part of the original secure act they made some clarifications here and just who could participate that is still in areas i put that caveat in a lot of companies plan providers are still waiting for guidance there though i think before we see that take off of the maps and the peps they had increased but i think before we actually see that massive explosion there if it ever occurs we still need guidance from especially the labor department on that side but this it reduced down some complications the kind of easier version of this four o one k in there where it’s only employ e contributions similar thing another attempt how do we get small businesses a cost effective plan to roll out we did mention automatic enrollment escalation making that mandatory for larger newer plans running forward

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
i’ve written on that and a little bit

paul_tyler:
right oh

jamie_hopkins:
while that one sounds super nice that would have been more effective like

paul_tyler:
ye

jamie_hopkins:
twenty years ago just reality is like

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
the impact of that one will be super slow and really long term most large companies have plans in place most small companies that are startups will be exempted out of the rule and even most new plans i think it’s like ninety per cent have automatic enrolment today anyway so it’s not like it sounds good i don’t know how many actual plans and people get impacted or get access due to that change and then we always have to couch does behavior end up different than we think the simplified easy to use for one k does that create plans at are less costly to the employer and so people don’t end up with as much money in there there’s no no we don’t add matching in so people don’t say like there’s

ramsey_d_smith:
my

jamie_hopkins:
some of that behavioral stuff in there that like we could get wrong on that one like it again sounds good there’s a reason to try it but we could look back in a decade and be like well that was a failure the mira which is a great example of that that the federal government tried to decade ago now

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
right like

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
maybe two thousand fourteen was a complete failure they ended up spending more money on it than money ever actually

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
went into it like think about that right like the cost

paul_tyler:
yes

jamie_hopkins:
was more expensive than the total number of dollars that ever moved into it and in theory like it was a good attempt they probably didn’t let it run long enough either but it was such a massive failure so quickly that they did kind of cut bay

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
and leave it administration

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
s changed it wasn’t the only thing but

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
i do think that for advisors

paul_tyler:
a

jamie_hopkins:
and plans

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
small businesses the enhanced credits er big and so that’s a talking point was an edition in

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
the original secure act and it was enhanced in this one so talking to people who might have looked at setting up a plan for their workplace before they didn’t do it the cost

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
they did lower down the cost by enhancing credits there again and i think that was kind

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
of lost we talked about it secure act past the end of twenty nineteen ten the world shut down he went around talking about enhance small employer credits

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
and twenty twenty

ramsey_d_smith:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
for setting up retirement plans like

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
that was item number like five hundred to ninety two of the most important things to worry about in twenty two right but this kind of gives us that talking point to go back out help small businesses set up plans run them at a more cost effective and less kind of laborious

paul_tyler:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
and

ramsey_d_smith:
i mean so that sort of what i see is a bit of an open question is so secure to your point secure act one point o came out in twenty nineteen and it may have been a bigger deal had there not been a pandemic secure two point o does two things one it enhances but it also sort of reminds the whole world about the secure act in the first

jamie_hopkins:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
place so you know it’ll be you know what are your thoughts on that you think that there will be more reaction to secure two point to

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
secure access at collectively

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
in the next year or two that we saw in the last year or two as a result of the fact that at least at least we have a handle on managing the pandemic if we’re not completely out of it m

jamie_hopkins:
rams it’s a great question it gave it another opportunity

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
so you know when i went into twenty twenty

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
i thought my whole year of twenty twenty was going to be me going around talking to advisors and clients about secure act and that it happened i had three months of that you know at best i don’t know it’s two and a half months and you know there was more

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
attention to the original secure

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
act than this one though like i can just tell media coverage clients and you know kind of being the sequel to anything usually you don’t always live up to the original interestingly

paul_tyler:
m

jamie_hopkins:
enough like i think this is a better bill than the first one the fir bill secure act one point though we had a lot more rushing at the

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
end of the year there were some planning opportunities this one is more like an enhancement to

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
the system the first bill if you really dive into it the major visions were what i call stealth tax increases i mean that was the major provision in there with the

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
change of beneficiary design beneficiary inherited accounts and moving that to a ten year and that a tax revenue generator for the government i mean that’s the major provision in the entire thing and you know the the flip side was and i remember talking about this like this bill will have impact if the mts and pep kind of take off

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
after secure act one point and they haven’t yet

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

paul_tyler:
m yeah

jamie_hopkins:
so this is another attempt to enhance them it’s not that they didn’t occur but

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
they didn’t take off it’s not you know like i think i saw somebody say

paul_tyler:
m

jamie_hopkins:
around this one a hundred million more americans will have access to retirement accounts and like

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
that

paul_tyler:
m

jamie_hopkins:
sounds nice

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
in an article but you know i don’t believe that through this one either like i just don’t like we’ve tried

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
to simple cept ar cept

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
we’ve tried this over and over again and wanting behavior to change it’s probably my best point going back to something earlier is just giving small bit this says more opportunities does not change their behavior like simples and saps are super easy to run they don’t cost a whole lot they’re less complex than a new four or one k or a map or a pep is and we still didn’t

paul_tyler:
m

jamie_hopkins:
use them right so it does kind of go back to it’s not won’t have some impact but the notion that it’s gonna give

paul_tyler:
my

jamie_hopkins:
a hundred million people more retirement

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
savings i don’t believe

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
i just i don’t see

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
it you know

ramsey_d_smith:
the question is how do we change

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
the in to you to your earlier

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
point so how do we how do we change the environments that changed the behavior what’s the what’s the auto enrolment nudge equivalent

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
in

jamie_hopkins:
so

ramsey_d_smith:
in the mepinpepspace

jamie_hopkins:
so it’s like one step further than we got right which

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
everything is steps towards something so now we said hey plans you have to set up automatic enrolment esculation and then there’s going to be some day where we’re going to have to that fundamental decision do we require employers to have at some size right so it’s not going to be five person companies but at fifty person companies in you have to low people some system in which they are automatically enrolled and states have started to look at that right and

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
they’ve gone that way outside of the federal government now what will push the federal govern to have to deal with that is when we get twenty

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
five states doing it twenty five different ways you know right now we kind of have two ish states messing around in there it’s not enough to force the federal government’s hand but when we get twenty five there and states doing it twenty five different ways then that’s when the government said he look this is a federal issue stop messing around with retirement stuff that’s our land we’re going to deal

ramsey_d_smith:
m

jamie_hopkins:
with this and but that’s like that’s something that i would say we don’t have agreement on in d c today like this other stuff we can get agreement on do we require employers to go down that route now look like we require employers to put money in for retirement accounts today that’s half the social security of medic care like we do

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
require that like it’s not a thing that

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
we have decided not to require in this country but are we going to take that next step and require i don’t think it’s going to employer contributions which will be the next version but do we require you to set up that mapper

paul_tyler:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
pep or allow people to automatically enroll into a state run i like some option where we say at fifty people or more you’re goin t automatically enroll people into some type of savings and they can optout but you as an employer are going to set that up that is the changing of the environment that would put a hundred million people into saving but it’s kind of one step further than i think anyone is willing to put political capital behind today

paul_tyler:
yeah well isn’t where we’re close to top of the hour here fasting discussion

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
jamie ramsey i think there’s still another piece of legislation pass don’t know call it retire hard

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
ree

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
you

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
know

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
and it’s definitely

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
a christmas movie because

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
every year this passes like two days before

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
christmas ball

paul_tyler:
yeah

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
so

paul_tyler:
yeah you noticing these big block

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
there are three hours

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

paul_tyler:
and three and a half hours

bruno_caron:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
long sometimes like

jamie_hopkins:
hm

tisa_rabun_marshall:
oh

paul_tyler:
i don’t know if

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
you saw avatar i was along one let’s

bruno_caron:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
not yet

paul_tyler:
read this is

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
a secure act to jamie

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
god bless you for

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
ripping

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
through that that quick that was a lot

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
m

paul_tyler:
so i guess

bruno_caron:
h

paul_tyler:
let me just ask you tis a at last question thought on on the topic we’ve covered a lot here

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah it’s more of a comment than than a question

bruno_caron:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
don’t know if it already exists but i think

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
i have

bruno_caron:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
your next book jamie

bruno_caron:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
uh when you were talking about how people place value

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
on giving and

bruno_caron:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
receiving gifts reminded me of the five love languages we

jamie_hopkins:
hm

tisa_rabun_marshall:
kind

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
of dissect that in our romantic relationships if you will but i feel like a financial advisors took that approach with clients right understood their motivations maybe

bruno_caron:
m

tisa_rabun_marshall:
those conversations would look a little different so

paul_tyler:
ye

tisa_rabun_marshall:
you know five five love languages for finance that’s your that’s your next book

jamie_hopkins:
yeah

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

paul_tyler:
i’d

jamie_hopkins:
love

paul_tyler:
like

tisa_rabun_marshall:
so

paul_tyler:
that

jamie_hopkins:
it

tisa_rabun_marshall:
thanks for thanks

bruno_caron:
m

tisa_rabun_marshall:
for your

ramsey_d_smith:
m

tisa_rabun_marshall:
time today i

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
fancy fast eating in that um that

paul_tyler:
oh

tisa_rabun_marshall:
attitude and emotion around money is something that in particular generationally how it’s passed down is a fascinating topic so i appreciate you covering it today

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
thank you and yet the five love languages i do mention it briefly in the book i don’t think i don’t even know if i mentioned all five but i talk about my spouse and i have different love languages right

tisa_rabun_marshall:
hm

jamie_hopkins:
and that does show it

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
it does show its face to relationship and how we interact with money and like my wife likes time saving activities so the best gift i can give her are things like hiring a long care company even though i love doing that it’s something i like but it’s beneficial rehearsal that’s a better gift it’s a better way to spend money to create you know exponential more happiness so it’s a absolutely

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
perfect example tsa

tisa_rabun_marshall:
it’s

paul_tyler:
yeah

tisa_rabun_marshall:
key understanding that

paul_tyler:
oh excellently bruno

bruno_caron:
hey if i could sneak one last one in

paul_tyler:
yeah

bruno_caron:
if we married

paul_tyler:
my

bruno_caron:
the two topics we had today everything that impacts us from from you know from the book and

paul_tyler:
m

bruno_caron:
secure two point o u we see the generations that we have you know seen growing and retiring living with

paul_tyler:
m

bruno_caron:
with pensions and strong social security um now this

paul_tyler:
yeah

bruno_caron:
is this environment has changed

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

bruno_caron:
how is that going to or people going to live up to that

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

bruno_caron:
in the next the end of generations to come now that that environment has changed i do we flip back the environment how do we how do we go to that step

jamie_hopkins:
brit’s a great question what happened over time as we moved we used to

paul_tyler:
m

jamie_hopkins:
talk about the three legged stool right employer

bruno_caron:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
individual and government and we shifted that burden more to the

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
individual so that that stool is wobbly now

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
because the idea is you need to make enough money to say if you got to figure that out mostly on your

paul_tyler:
h

jamie_hopkins:
own the question will become you know does the government who sets the policy from the people but you

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
know will we

bruno_caron:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
stabilize that in some way and do we shift more burden back to the employer do we shift more burden back to the government and

bruno_caron:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
right now the burden has shifted on the individual and the you know i’d say the financial markets have tried

paul_tyler:
ye

jamie_hopkins:
to fill in that piece right we have more products and

paul_tyler:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
more advisors solutions and technology

paul_tyler:
yes

jamie_hopkins:
but it’s you know i don’t know that

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
it’s enough long term i though one thing i always talk about if it comes up is social security

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
i do not believe and i could be wrong here because i’d be wrong about lots of things or anything

bruno_caron:
m

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
but i do not

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
believe personally that we

paul_tyler:
ah

jamie_hopkins:
will see a time where sociasecurity has gone in my life in this country

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
a lot of people believe that but more of a lack of nderstanding how the system works we are not saving enough today for the people who are in their forties and fifties to offset the loss of social security so unless as a country either one we just literally can’t for did any more which is always a possibility

paul_tyler:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
but two i don’t think we’re okay with saying that we’re fine with all of our seniors living in poverty like i just don’t you know

bruno_caron:
m

jamie_hopkins:
more than half of retired s right

paul_tyler:
we

jamie_hopkins:
two thirds of retire

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
their primary source of income is sociacurity i don’t think we’re okay walking around saying we’re okay with two thirds of our seniors living

bruno_caron:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
in poverty by letting the system go to the wayside

paul_tyler:
yeah ramsey

bruno_caron:
well thanks

paul_tyler:
i

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

paul_tyler:
know

bruno_caron:
and

paul_tyler:
you could you’ve got a lot here

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
a lot

jamie_hopkins:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
yeah

paul_tyler:
more

ramsey_d_smith:
we covered up we covered a lot of a

paul_tyler:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
lot of issues i totally agree with you jamie

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
on the social security and its role in in us culture and society i think it’s hard to view a version of it it’s much less than what we we currently see it um

paul_tyler:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
thanks very much for your perspective on on the secure act sort of like the both its potential and maybe it some of his limitations i really like this this this notion of of can give the framework of changing the environment and not focusing on behavior because i agree with you completely that you can spend a lot of time on education and it’s you can’t educate people at the same rate that they need to actually s the you the content of that education in their day to day lives so creating an environment that sort of leads them or nudges them to where they need to be while they learn i think is critical to success so thank you for sharing that

jamie_hopkins:
i’ll drop one of my friends jess she said this is my favorite thing i’ve ever said and i messed it up sometimes but it’s you know education without execution just creates smarter people doing the same dumb thing ans

paul_tyler:
oh

ramsey_d_smith:
all right that’s that’s our quote

paul_tyler:
that that

ramsey_d_smith:
that’s

paul_tyler:
is

ramsey_d_smith:
our quote

bruno_caron:
m

ramsey_d_smith:
from the linked in post

paul_tyler:
that’s great well hey

ramsey_d_smith:
what

paul_tyler:
jamie

tisa_rabun_marshall:
good final

paul_tyler:
thanks so

tisa_rabun_marshall:
note

paul_tyler:
much of your time we’ll put

bruno_caron:
i

paul_tyler:
links to your your book in the notes if anybody wants to find that

ramsey_d_smith:
m

paul_tyler:
we’ll put a link there

tisa_rabun_marshall:
yeah

paul_tyler:
link your website maybe an end firm as well so thanks for your time one

tisa_rabun_marshall:
oh

paul_tyler:
last off the cuff question here did you go to burning man with the

jamie_hopkins:
no i didn’t

paul_tyler:
with

jamie_hopkins:
go to

paul_tyler:
you

jamie_hopkins:
burning man

bruno_caron:
uh

jamie_hopkins:
with ran

paul_tyler:
it

jamie_hopkins:
know you know look rick ran hired ran hired me delegated so he could you know i read

paul_tyler:
uh

jamie_hopkins:
the secure act and he can go

tisa_rabun_marshall:
oh

jamie_hopkins:
to burning man

paul_tyler:
h

jamie_hopkins:
he’s

ramsey_d_smith:
but

jamie_hopkins:
living

bruno_caron:
yah

paul_tyler:
yeah

jamie_hopkins:
his freedom and live in mine so

paul_tyler:
okay

jamie_hopkins:
yeah that’s

paul_tyler:
all

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
right

jamie_hopkins:
look he’s a smart guy

bruno_caron:
uh

paul_tyler:
all right listen thanks to all our listeners give us feedback

bruno_caron:
h

ramsey_d_smith:
oh

paul_tyler:
shoot us lots as you always do and

bruno_caron:
yeah

paul_tyler:
join us again next week for another episode of that annuity show thanks

Nick DesrocherEpisode 177: Finding The Emotional Side of Financial Planning With Jamie Hopkins
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Episode 176: Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic

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# 176 – Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic

Indices continue to proliferate within the fixed indexed annuity market. Yes, choice is good for the client but it can create a complicated environment for the agent or advisor. Laurence Black, Founder of the Index Standard and Branislav Nikolic join us again to talk about how their company makes providing good information easier.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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00:00:02,876 –> 00:00:03,016
[paul_tyler]: hi

2
00:00:03,090 –> 00:00:04,200
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

3
00:00:03,116 –> 00:00:07,890
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show bruno

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00:00:07,860 –> 00:00:08,730
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

5
00:00:08,613 –> 00:00:08,954
[paul_tyler]: welcome

6
00:00:10,139 –> 00:00:13,725
[bruno_caron]: thank you great to be here and
excited about

7
00:00:13,746 –> 00:00:14,066
[paul_tyler]: tessa

8
00:00:13,765 –> 00:00:14,166
[bruno_caron]: our guests

9
00:00:14,267 –> 00:00:17,934
[paul_tyler]: glad you got your yahyeahtisa good to
see you

10
00:00:18,752 –> 00:00:19,429
[bruno_caron]: yeah

11
00:00:18,828 –> 00:00:19,739
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: to see you good morning

12
00:00:20,266 –> 00:00:21,268
[paul_tyler]: yeah we’ve been

13
00:00:21,238 –> 00:00:21,259
[bruno_caron]: m

14
00:00:21,308 –> 00:00:24,353
[paul_tyler]: busy on a lot of fronts last
few weeks haven’t we

15
00:00:25,320 –> 00:00:25,340
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

16
00:00:25,535 –> 00:00:26,557
[paul_tyler]: and ramsey looks

17
00:00:26,400 –> 00:00:26,503
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

18
00:00:26,597 –> 00:00:29,722
[paul_tyler]: like you’re i think you’re broadcasting from
an undisclosed location today

19
00:00:30,177 –> 00:00:30,557
[ramsey_d_smith]: indeed

20
00:00:30,343 –> 00:00:30,684
[paul_tyler]: correct

21
00:00:30,698 –> 00:00:32,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: looks kind of like a wine seller
doesn’t it but

22
00:00:33,076 –> 00:00:33,257
[paul_tyler]: yeah

23
00:00:33,756 –> 00:00:33,776
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

24
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:34,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s not

25
00:00:35,585 –> 00:00:36,169
[paul_tyler]: yeah ah

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00:00:36,387 –> 00:00:37,108
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very

27
00:00:36,975 –> 00:00:37,016
[paul_tyler]: ah

28
00:00:37,168 –> 00:00:37,389
[ramsey_d_smith]: happy

29
00:00:37,272 –> 00:00:37,416
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

30
00:00:37,449 –> 00:00:43,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: to be here and really excited to
welcome lawrence black in the end standard uh

31
00:00:44,040 –> 00:00:48,247
[ramsey_d_smith]: the the index standard has been our
lead sponsor for the better part of the

32
00:00:48,287 –> 00:00:52,434
[ramsey_d_smith]: last year so we’re really excited to
have them on they’re doing a lot of

33
00:00:52,494 –> 00:01:01,329
[ramsey_d_smith]: very interesting things in and helping the
the index community unpack the best way to

34
00:01:01,429 –> 00:01:06,257
[ramsey_d_smith]: allocate industies and the best way to
understand their role in a broader portfolio so

35
00:01:06,638 –> 00:01:10,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: with that lawrence i want to start
out with you and you also have a

36
00:01:11,227 –> 00:01:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: special guest a new addition to your
team you’re going to want to introduce

37
00:01:13,479 –> 00:01:13,500
[branislav_nikolic]: m

38
00:01:13,772 –> 00:01:15,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: as well so i will pass it
on to you for that

39
00:01:15,374 –> 00:01:21,180
[laurence]: indeed so good morning every one it’s
great to join you so as you guys

40
00:01:21,240 –> 00:01:24,285
[laurence]: know it i’ve been with you a
couple of times in the past great to

41
00:01:24,325 –> 00:01:28,913
[laurence]: be back here again and i’m delighted
to introduce brand nicolitch who’s just joined us

42
00:01:29,013 –> 00:01:31,659
[laurence]: from from begpardon let me try a
re

43
00:01:31,749 –> 00:01:31,770
[branislav_nikolic]: m

44
00:01:31,759 –> 00:01:37,289
[laurence]: do that again hey good morning it’s
great to join you i’m delighted to introduce

45
00:01:37,630 –> 00:01:38,732
[laurence]: branslanicolich

46
00:01:38,197 –> 00:01:38,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

47
00:01:38,852 –> 00:01:43,880
[laurence]: who’s just joined us from chanics he
was ahead of research and he was therefore

48
00:01:43,940 –> 00:01:48,527
[laurence]: about almost a decade and the index
standard we’ve got a lot of index expertise

49
00:01:48,627 –> 00:01:51,150
[laurence]: and it’s great to kind of expand
our capabilities

50
00:01:50,542 –> 00:01:50,625
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

51
00:01:51,250 –> 00:01:54,073
[laurence]: with brand slabs in depth insurance knowledge

52
00:01:56,547 –> 00:01:57,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: fantastic

53
00:01:56,846 –> 00:01:57,887
[paul_tyler]: welcome yeah

54
00:01:58,150 –> 00:01:58,936
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you extremely

55
00:01:58,708 –> 00:01:58,908
[paul_tyler]: you want

56
00:01:58,976 –> 00:01:59,661
[branislav_nikolic]: happy to be here

57
00:02:00,529 –> 00:02:02,011
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah tell us

58
00:02:02,137 –> 00:02:02,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

59
00:02:02,611 –> 00:02:05,394
[paul_tyler]: tell us it’s a little bit about
your back story how did how did you

60
00:02:05,434 –> 00:02:07,055
[paul_tyler]: get into the annuity space

61
00:02:08,047 –> 00:02:08,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

62
00:02:08,720 –> 00:02:14,345
[branislav_nikolic]: so my story with annuities was polly
haphazard so old way through school i thought

63
00:02:14,385 –> 00:02:18,049
[branislav_nikolic]: i would end up on a trading
desk somewhere be a proper quant and i

64
00:02:18,389 –> 00:02:23,657
[branislav_nikolic]: had enormous luck to meet motinmilevsky extreme
early in my career and started working for

65
00:02:24,138 –> 00:02:28,465
[branislav_nikolic]: for his start up later joined chanics
which is again an industry leader on data

66
00:02:28,525 –> 00:02:36,578
[branislav_nikolic]: analytics for annuities spent good almost ten
years there leading research and really helping antics

67
00:02:36,699 –> 00:02:42,849
[branislav_nikolic]: build their capabilities in all sorts of
annuities in terms of platforms for exchanges that’s

68
00:02:42,909 –> 00:02:49,059
[branislav_nikolic]: how i lawrence and j and i
really saw the two missions extremely complimentary and

69
00:02:49,540 –> 00:02:54,048
[branislav_nikolic]: i always saw the index as a
fuel to the annuity and i always was

70
00:02:54,088 –> 00:02:55,530
[branislav_nikolic]: saying that it’s important these

71
00:02:55,417 –> 00:02:55,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[branislav_nikolic]: two things

73
00:02:56,317 –> 00:02:57,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

74
00:02:56,392 –> 00:03:01,042
[branislav_nikolic]: evaluated together so we started talking and
i’m extremely happy to have joined the team

75
00:03:01,183 –> 00:03:03,608
[branislav_nikolic]: and to be side by side with
lawrence and j

76
00:03:04,387 –> 00:03:05,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

77
00:03:04,446 –> 00:03:04,566
[paul_tyler]: ah

78
00:03:04,770 –> 00:03:05,012
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

79
00:03:05,608 –> 00:03:11,217
[paul_tyler]: lawrence so actually we saw each other
in person it was it was tremendous i

80
00:03:11,885 –> 00:03:12,210
[laurence]: indeed

81
00:03:11,978 –> 00:03:16,846
[paul_tyler]: i made the very last minute decision
to tend naa this year and a f

82
00:03:16,987 –> 00:03:20,392
[paul_tyler]: a for those of you who were
wont to look at this up had their

83
00:03:20,432 –> 00:03:26,543
[paul_tyler]: conference in california showed up and lawrence
you were on a great platform talking about

84
00:03:27,104 –> 00:03:32,272
[paul_tyler]: kind of the landscape of product design
and industiesn maybe for our audience you could

85
00:03:32,312 –> 00:03:36,279
[paul_tyler]: just sort of give us talk to
us a little bit more about the problem

86
00:03:36,339 –> 00:03:40,529
[paul_tyler]: you’re solving and you know what’s taking
place in the market today

87
00:03:41,924 –> 00:03:46,531
[laurence]: sure thanks paul because you know a
lot is happening so let me just sort

88
00:03:46,572 –> 00:03:48,415
[laurence]: of give everyone little bit of background
about what we

89
00:03:48,487 –> 00:03:48,729
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

90
00:03:48,595 –> 00:03:52,762
[laurence]: do so at the end of standard
we all know there’s so much complexity in

91
00:03:52,802 –> 00:03:57,287
[laurence]: this market with induces and the pay
offs so what we do at the end

92
00:03:57,347 –> 00:04:04,714
[laurence]: next standard which were really trying to
simplify decode and mystify all this complexity and

93
00:04:04,754 –> 00:04:07,641
[laurence]: we do it in a couple of
ways we’ve got a lot of research

94
00:04:07,490 –> 00:04:07,573
[ramsey_d_smith]: he

95
00:04:07,821 –> 00:04:12,372
[laurence]: that we help people giving them insights
as to what products and industries to select

96
00:04:13,664 –> 00:04:19,880
[laurence]: we also actually rate and evaluate every
single index used in the insurance space we

97
00:04:19,980 –> 00:04:25,751
[laurence]: give it a platinum gold silver bronze
rating and then we actually have some forward

98
00:04:25,791 –> 00:04:29,617
[laurence]: looking forecast to help people think about
the future because we all know the future

99
00:04:29,657 –> 00:04:33,223
[laurence]: is going to be different so we
have some forecast and then we’ve actually on

100
00:04:33,263 –> 00:04:38,853
[laurence]: the of these forecasts we’ve actually launched
some model allications so allicating

101
00:04:38,471 –> 00:04:38,657
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

102
00:04:38,913 –> 00:04:43,420
[laurence]: to an annuity can be really tough
with sort of fifteen crediting lines so we’ve

103
00:04:43,480 –> 00:04:45,343
[laurence]: actually built a tool to help people
with

104
00:04:45,607 –> 00:04:45,767
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:04:45,746 –> 00:04:51,431
[laurence]: a tough selection now i just want
to give you some background about the index

106
00:04:51,611 –> 00:04:53,816
[laurence]: industry so one interesting

107
00:04:53,616 –> 00:04:53,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

108
00:04:53,936 –> 00:04:58,725
[laurence]: fact it’s actually almost a trillion dollar
industry no one knows about it so i

109
00:04:58,805 –> 00:05:00,268
[laurence]: call it like a niche market

110
00:04:59,892 –> 00:04:59,973
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

111
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[laurence]: that’s a trillion dollars

112
00:05:01,117 –> 00:05:01,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

113
00:05:02,371 –> 00:05:06,739
[laurence]: so you know we see in the
u s insurance space there’s probably is the

114
00:05:06,859 –> 00:05:12,573
[laurence]: bulk of risk control industries probably about
half that but actually risk control industries are

115
00:05:12,734 –> 00:05:13,878
[laurence]: used in germany

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00:05:14,137 –> 00:05:15,427
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[laurence]: and in switzerland

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

119
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[laurence]: actually used in the insurance

120
00:05:16,867 –> 00:05:17,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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00:05:17,179 –> 00:05:23,507
[laurence]: space they use risk control industries in
mutual funds then another big portion is structure

122
00:05:23,567 –> 00:05:29,236
[laurence]: products we estimate there’s probably two hundred
and fifty billion in instructure products that actually

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[laurence]: are linked to these risk control industries
and then actually you have this of bank

124
00:05:34,805 –> 00:05:41,030
[laurence]: market where they’re doing direct transactions with
big institutions that’s probably another two hundred billions

125
00:05:41,090 –> 00:05:44,153
[laurence]: so in total we think it’s around
about a trillion dollar market

126
00:05:46,128 –> 00:05:49,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: so that’s incredible i mean one of
the things though that is

127
00:05:49,410 –> 00:05:50,040
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

128
00:05:49,954 –> 00:05:54,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: that has been interesting about the market
is it’s gotten it’s been characterized by a

129
00:05:54,602 –> 00:05:58,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot more choice and there’s a lot
of value in an adit a choice but

130
00:05:58,949 –> 00:06:04,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: with with those choices becomes many many
more complicated decisions

131
00:06:04,874 –> 00:06:04,997
[laurence]: yeah

132
00:06:04,919 –> 00:06:08,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: and you know so i guess a
question you know that that i have for

133
00:06:09,026 –> 00:06:13,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: you like so what sort of what
are your various target audiences i can see

134
00:06:13,952 –> 00:06:15,934
[ramsey_d_smith]: i can certainly see why retail retail

135
00:06:16,063 –> 00:06:16,084
[laurence]: m

136
00:06:16,194 –> 00:06:23,104
[ramsey_d_smith]: consumers would want to be able to
decode all the choices but i would imagine

137
00:06:23,165 –> 00:06:29,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: that institutions are almost similarly challenged so
what are your target audiences for your product

138
00:06:29,535 –> 00:06:31,535
[ramsey_d_smith]: lines yeah

139
00:06:31,535 –> 00:06:35,002
[laurence]: so we’re actually kind of targeting that
that whole gammit we want

140
00:06:34,921 –> 00:06:35,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

141
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[laurence]: to help organizations with the selection and
due diligence of these industies want to help

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[laurence]: organizations who selling them that they can
use our reports to kind of position them

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[laurence]: and and in the end consumer i
mean the main reason i’m actually here and

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[laurence]: doing this is i want m and
ms smith who are buying these policies to

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[laurence]: do better right

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[laurence]: by building choosing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[laurence]: better industries and building diverse portfolios and
let me just make one quick comment about

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[laurence]: the industries because

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

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[laurence]: you know i think we hear a
lot about the comp lexity but also on

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[laurence]: the sort of flip side is actually
it’s really wonderful because what we’re now

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[laurence]: seeing is a lot of the users
are actually getting access to techniques that only

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[laurence]: used by hedge funds or big pension
funds i can give any example there’s a

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[laurence]: technique called mean verace optimization just a
fancy way of saying give me the best

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[laurence]: aplication to target a certain level of
risk that was kind of actually harry make

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[laurence]: its came up with that technique in
the late fifties he wanted no ball prize

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[laurence]: for up until a couple of years
ago you only had big pension funds and

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[laurence]: big hedge funds were using that ut
now amazingly that technique is an indusies and

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[laurence]: we can all access that so that’s
actually a really wonderful innovation that all of

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[laurence]: us can use that

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[branislav_nikolic]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[laurence]: to do better

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[branislav_nikolic]: yeah m

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[bruno_caron]: that’s that’s wonderful and can you talk
you talk a little bit more about those

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[bruno_caron]: those actual metrics and in practice what
type of metrics it you used to rate

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[bruno_caron]: s

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: h i mean you list plenty in
terms of calculating and measuring those like like

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[bruno_caron]: capital risk metric efficiency metric return metric

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: what are those metrics and what do
they mean

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: for people who ultimately use them

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[laurence]: he great question bruno

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[laurence]: so we actually look at about thirty
five

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[laurence]: metrics and i’m going

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[branislav_nikolic]: ah

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[laurence]: to loosely break them down into

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[branislav_nikolic]: oh

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[laurence]: three groups so the first group is

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[laurence]: we really want to look at the
complex city of each

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[laurence]: index how it’s designed and the availability
of the rules and who’s calculating that the

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[laurence]: key thing is is really that complexity
we’ll look at the dirt the diversification we’ll

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[laurence]: look and see if the rules are
available well look and see if there’s an

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[laurence]: independent index calculation

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[laurence]: agent and we like to see those
things and by the way what we prefer

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[laurence]: to see when we’re looking at an
index is simpler is better than an index

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[laurence]: with lots of no second category is
what you touched on

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[laurence]: will look at a lot of

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[laurence]: metrics like such as returns and volatility
but there we want to kind of go

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[laurence]: under the hood and we look at
something called v which is v a r

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[laurence]: but it’s just simply a metric that
tells you how much you can possibly

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what does

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[laurence]: lose

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[ramsey_d_smith]: that spell

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[laurence]: so we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: out

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[laurence]: want

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[ramsey_d_smith]: to

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[laurence]: to look

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[ramsey_d_smith]: lawrence

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[laurence]: at that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: for those on our audience

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[laurence]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: who don’t

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[ramsey_d_smith]: know

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what that spells out

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[branislav_nikolic]: oh

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[laurence]: we’re

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[ramsey_d_smith]: to

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[laurence]: going to keep it

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[laurence]: simple

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[laurence]: we just look under the hood and
we kind

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[laurence]: of figure out the max that you
could lose

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[ramsey_d_smith]: right

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[laurence]: we also look at you know the
number of months that the index has positive

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[laurence]: on negative returns look at another technical
measure that says have you got a propensity

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[laurence]: for positive returns

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[laurence]: we also look at large big outliers
as well to see if you’ve got any

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[laurence]: positive or large negative outlines again that
tells us a lot and then the final

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[laurence]: categories we actually look forward and we
actually bring in some of our forecast to

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[laurence]: try and also have a forward looking
measure

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[laurence]: so we score each nex out of
a hundred then we market on a bell

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[laurence]: shaped curve when we allocate platinum gold
silver bronze and then we also have watch

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[laurence]: and neutral as our worst categories

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[paul_tyler]: so lawrence if if i’m an advisor
selling one

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: of our one of our own companies
products to tsa and i’ve got the materials

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[paul_tyler]: in front of my the table because
the virtual table i have a lot of

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[paul_tyler]: personal risk at stake here right i
could recommend

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: induces that creator the next two years

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[laurence]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: um i could uh come over the
recommendations that are all kind of bunched up

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[paul_tyler]: in one in a couple i may
think i’ve diversified the actual

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: industries when in fact i’ve put all
her retirement into sort of one sector m

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[paul_tyler]: sometimes advisers simply default of saying look
tis just pick three or four of these

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[paul_tyler]: and let’s divide by that number and
put them in these industries oh and by

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[paul_tyler]: the way we now have best interest
standards now coming down the pike what

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[laurence]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: does that process look like do i
spend more time with her lawrence do i

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[paul_tyler]: have better tools do i go in
with sort of pre set recommendations what does

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[paul_tyler]: that this looks like two or three
years from now

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[laurence]: you know that’s great let me answer
that in two parts and i would love

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[laurence]: to bring in brandon slave to answer

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[laurence]: the second part here so you know
let me give you a couple of thoughts

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[laurence]: you know firstly i think the future
is going to be different from the past

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[laurence]: so always looking at these past historical
returns is probably not going to be optimal

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[laurence]: you know and let me give you
some some simple examples right firstly the last

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[laurence]: decade we had low inflation

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye okay

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[laurence]: low interest rates no

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[ramsey_d_smith]: last

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[laurence]: tech

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[ramsey_d_smith]: week

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[laurence]: tail wins and globalization and it was
a great environment for large cap tech going

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[laurence]: forward i think everyone recognizes right we
see higher inflation we see higher rates we

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[laurence]: see dglobalization you know and the tech
is being regulated

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[branislav_nikolic]: oh

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[laurence]: beg pardon a recent big merger just
got blocked between microsopt and activision visit so

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[laurence]: that you know the world is going
to be different going forward so you know

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[laurence]: i think there are a lot of
people who are just alicating you know hundred

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[laurence]: percent to a bench mark index so
we want to encourage people to look forward

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[laurence]: so the way we do that at
the end ex standard we actually take the

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[laurence]: wisdom of wall street we actually go
and collect about thirty five asset managers and

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[laurence]: banks their ten year forward looking returns
and then what we do is we actually

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[laurence]: apply these these actual

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[branislav_nikolic]: m

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[laurence]: expected returns to each index and then
we’re able to produce

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[branislav_nikolic]: m

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[laurence]: a forward looking forecast for each index

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[branislav_nikolic]: oh

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[laurence]: so hand of the brands who is
going to talk about one of our latest

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[laurence]: innovations on what we’ve been doing around
kind of making that more useful for an

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[laurence]: f i a over over to you
brandslep

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[branislav_nikolic]: thank you laurence so so again the
key for me and one thing that i’m

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[branislav_nikolic]: extremely passionate about is how does this
to your point all get sold or how

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[branislav_nikolic]: is this presented over virtual or actual
kitchen table right because again who are the

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[branislav_nikolic]: buyers of annuities or pre retires or
early retires and you have two motives when

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[branislav_nikolic]: one is guaranteed income for life one
is the accumulation with a protected protected downside

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[branislav_nikolic]: either or you are looking for your
index more often than not to provide basis

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[branislav_nikolic]: of growth if you’re looking on the
accumulation side obvious if you’re looking on the

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[branislav_nikolic]: income side you have more and more
products coming in with the ability to harvest

305
00:13:51,137 –> 00:13:56,184
[branislav_nikolic]: some of that index growth and trans
laded into um cost of living adjustment on

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00:13:56,244 –> 00:13:59,728
[branislav_nikolic]: your income going forward one way or
the other you have to understand the annuity

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00:14:00,068 –> 00:14:03,845
[branislav_nikolic]: which i will which i like to
think of as like as an engine or

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00:14:03,885 –> 00:14:06,993
[branislav_nikolic]: a car and you have to think
of an index which i like to think

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00:14:07,053 –> 00:14:11,902
[branislav_nikolic]: of as a fuel you can have
like perfect grade fuel you put in a

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00:14:11,922 –> 00:14:16,908
[branislav_nikolic]: bad engine doesn’t go you have a
perfect car put put a basic gasoline in

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00:14:16,989 –> 00:14:21,526
[branislav_nikolic]: it sant go either like it starts
to cling you need the best combination and

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00:14:21,566 –> 00:14:27,315
[branislav_nikolic]: this is where i believe that looking
into forecasts first of all coming from a

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00:14:28,217 –> 00:14:33,526
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence was mentioning with of all street
transformed into how these indessinduscis will do going

314
00:14:33,586 –> 00:14:38,434
[branislav_nikolic]: forward putting down through the annuities to
achieve something that we call it in stand

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00:14:38,834 –> 00:14:43,883
[branislav_nikolic]: the net forecast yield basically trying to
what would the annuity with a given crediting

316
00:14:43,963 –> 00:14:49,011
[branislav_nikolic]: strategy on a given index provide over
over the next ten years and then on

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00:14:49,092 –> 00:14:54,080
[branislav_nikolic]: top of that now look into all
of these options and see which two three

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00:14:54,260 –> 00:15:00,150
[branislav_nikolic]: five options will give you the highest
expected return going forward so again thinking about

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00:15:00,410 –> 00:15:05,178
[branislav_nikolic]: the design of the engine whether it’s
a strategy whether it’s a parameters are you

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00:15:05,238 –> 00:15:09,283
[branislav_nikolic]: paying a fee it or not what
type of index are you putting to it

321
00:15:09,363 –> 00:15:12,926
[branislav_nikolic]: if it’s a bench mark you’re usually
getting a fraction of a return if it’s

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00:15:12,966 –> 00:15:18,276
[branislav_nikolic]: a volatility control you get a multiple
now let’s say that you get ten per

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00:15:18,356 –> 00:15:22,591
[branislav_nikolic]: cent return on a bench marine dex
and you get half of it okay ten

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00:15:22,651 –> 00:15:26,056
[branislav_nikolic]: percent are we going to get ten
per cent next year the year after i

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00:15:26,097 –> 00:15:30,324
[branislav_nikolic]: don’t know but if you get well
till controlled index and you get two three

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00:15:30,464 –> 00:15:36,613
[branislav_nikolic]: times of it even if it returns
two three percent you’re already doing doing much

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00:15:36,653 –> 00:15:40,778
[branislav_nikolic]: better all of this has to be
taken taken into context the other one is

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00:15:40,838 –> 00:15:48,860
[branislav_nikolic]: that probably the truth lies somewhere in
between looking into the history and seeing high

329
00:15:48,940 –> 00:15:54,562
[branislav_nikolic]: returns are you going to see these
going forward no you’re going to see exactly

330
00:15:54,602 –> 00:15:59,430
[branislav_nikolic]: what’s happening in the forecast probably not
but i think these two are perfect basis

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00:15:59,470 –> 00:16:03,396
[branislav_nikolic]: for conversation one for legal legal reasons
you got to do it because that’s how

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00:16:03,437 –> 00:16:08,821
[branislav_nikolic]: you sell the annuity and the other
one is to basically show that up done

333
00:16:08,881 –> 00:16:13,149
[branislav_nikolic]: some thinking outside of the box in
terms of due diligence and what could happen

334
00:16:13,269 –> 00:16:17,536
[branislav_nikolic]: and again use this as a cheat
cheat to show how well you understand the

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00:16:17,596 –> 00:16:20,672
[branislav_nikolic]: whole car plus the fee on a
race track

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00:16:24,297 –> 00:16:25,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: so a quick question here

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00:16:25,596 –> 00:16:26,766
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

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00:16:26,141 –> 00:16:29,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: so this this makes a lot of
sense right for a variety of

339
00:16:29,580 –> 00:16:30,720
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

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00:16:29,646 –> 00:16:36,718
[ramsey_d_smith]: reasons and the question is has anybody
done this before has there been has there

341
00:16:36,778 –> 00:16:41,615
[ramsey_d_smith]: been primarily a focus on history and
in particular back testing

342
00:16:42,934 –> 00:16:45,197
[laurence]: yeah i think there’s been such

343
00:16:45,180 –> 00:16:46,440
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

344
00:16:45,278 –> 00:16:50,346
[laurence]: a focus in on the industry and
back testing and listen it has a place

345
00:16:50,506 –> 00:16:50,647
[laurence]: but

346
00:16:50,529 –> 00:16:50,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

347
00:16:51,147 –> 00:16:52,369
[laurence]: what we like to say is

348
00:16:52,448 –> 00:16:52,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

349
00:16:53,071 –> 00:16:57,324
[laurence]: take the back test and take the
all cast and sort of think about the

350
00:16:57,538 –> 00:16:57,619
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

351
00:16:57,625 –> 00:17:01,912
[laurence]: using it together let me give you
like a common sense example that we we’ve

352
00:17:01,952 –> 00:17:07,662
[laurence]: been thinking about so right now some
of the large cap tech industries have the

353
00:17:07,722 –> 00:17:13,595
[laurence]: last ten years historical returns of sixteen
per cent so let’s kind of apply common

354
00:17:13,675 –> 00:17:15,116
[laurence]: logic and let’s take apple

355
00:17:14,910 –> 00:17:15,578
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

356
00:17:15,576 –> 00:17:20,601
[laurence]: apples the largest constituent of a lot
of pig teck industries so apple the market

357
00:17:20,661 –> 00:17:25,256
[laurence]: cap right now is about two point
four trillion so if i take that two

358
00:17:25,316 –> 00:17:29,624
[laurence]: point four trillion and i’m going to
compound it at sixteen percent like many

359
00:17:29,647 –> 00:17:29,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

360
00:17:30,025 –> 00:17:34,858
[laurence]: is shown in the the software illustrations
actually that means in ten years time apple

361
00:17:34,898 –> 00:17:40,558
[laurence]: is going to have to have a
market cap of ten trillion dollars now maybe

362
00:17:40,598 –> 00:17:40,919
[laurence]: that’s going

363
00:17:40,957 –> 00:17:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

364
00:17:40,959 –> 00:17:41,940
[laurence]: to happen but

365
00:17:41,850 –> 00:17:42,630
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

366
00:17:42,000 –> 00:17:42,762
[laurence]: like let me give you some

367
00:17:42,660 –> 00:17:42,942
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

368
00:17:42,802 –> 00:17:49,112
[laurence]: context the german g p is three
point eight trillion so it might happen right

369
00:17:49,413 –> 00:17:50,214
[laurence]: but that’s we

370
00:17:50,280 –> 00:17:50,300
[branislav_nikolic]: m

371
00:17:50,414 –> 00:17:54,842
[laurence]: want to encourage people to be diverse
because you know i was just saying i

372
00:17:54,882 –> 00:17:58,187
[laurence]: think it’s going to be a decade
of discomfort right we’ve seen the end of

373
00:17:58,248 –> 00:18:02,238
[laurence]: globalization is going to be difficult so
i think you want to be diverse right

374
00:18:03,114 –> 00:18:07,821
[laurence]: look at emerging markets there their historic
or returns for the last ten years kind

375
00:18:07,861 –> 00:18:11,326
[laurence]: of like about zero maybe they’re going
to do better right you want to put

376
00:18:11,367 –> 00:18:11,387
[laurence]: a

377
00:18:11,409 –> 00:18:11,430
[branislav_nikolic]: m

378
00:18:11,427 –> 00:18:15,433
[laurence]: little bit of money in there right
now everyone’s so bearish about europe but maybe

379
00:18:15,473 –> 00:18:19,200
[laurence]: you want to sprinkle a little bit
in there too so we just think being

380
00:18:19,260 –> 00:18:26,051
[laurence]: diversified is really important and with our
innovation of helping people to choose across complicated

381
00:18:26,452 –> 00:18:31,360
[laurence]: crediting strategies that brands have just outlined
we take that complicated choice between they say

382
00:18:31,761 –> 00:18:35,669
[laurence]: choosing fifty percent of a bench mark
index or two hundred per cent in a

383
00:18:35,730 –> 00:18:40,530
[laurence]: risk control index just make that into
an apples to apples conversation where we can

384
00:18:40,581 –> 00:18:40,682
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

385
00:18:40,630 –> 00:18:43,718
[laurence]: say maybe you’re gonna get five here
and maybe you goin to get eight here

386
00:18:44,199 –> 00:18:45,782
[laurence]: to build a diversified portfolio

387
00:18:46,560 –> 00:18:50,887
[branislav_nikolic]: one thing lawrence that i would like
to add again lawrence being an expert to

388
00:18:50,927 –> 00:18:54,433
[branislav_nikolic]: what i call fuel and industries again
like its great great insight but again looking

389
00:18:54,493 –> 00:18:59,241
[branislav_nikolic]: into just these strategies that you get
in these annuities strategies they are built to

390
00:18:59,681 –> 00:19:04,469
[branislav_nikolic]: harvest the sharp growth you have strategies
that give you cap return so basically you’re

391
00:19:04,489 –> 00:19:08,316
[branislav_nikolic]: looking for a pause that have some
they’re looking for just positive return and then

392
00:19:08,356 –> 00:19:13,765
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re good you have those they are
looking for consistently positive return without any volatility

393
00:19:13,865 –> 00:19:14,085
[branislav_nikolic]: in them

394
00:19:14,947 –> 00:19:15,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

395
00:19:15,328 –> 00:19:19,094
[branislav_nikolic]: how to know again you can have
your view of the market have your outlook

396
00:19:19,695 –> 00:19:23,782
[branislav_nikolic]: but how exactly you know where to
put on so if your money you don’t

397
00:19:23,822 –> 00:19:27,087
[branislav_nikolic]: have to you don’t have to know
that’s why it’s good to diversify that’s why

398
00:19:27,167 –> 00:19:33,518
[branislav_nikolic]: it’s good to diversify strategies crsindusties and
basically get all of these tools available to

399
00:19:33,578 –> 00:19:37,056
[branislav_nikolic]: you working for the for the end
user which is the most important piece

400
00:19:38,589 –> 00:19:38,710
[paul_tyler]: this

401
00:19:38,745 –> 00:19:38,825
[ramsey_d_smith]: and

402
00:19:38,771 –> 00:19:38,831
[paul_tyler]: is

403
00:19:38,886 –> 00:19:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

404
00:19:38,891 –> 00:19:38,912
[paul_tyler]: a

405
00:19:38,946 –> 00:19:39,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: key

406
00:19:38,972 –> 00:19:39,455
[paul_tyler]: complicated

407
00:19:39,168 –> 00:19:39,732
[ramsey_d_smith]: element of this

408
00:19:39,959 –> 00:19:40,362
[paul_tyler]: problem

409
00:19:42,447 –> 00:19:46,313
[ramsey_d_smith]: it’s gonna say a key element of
this is that um figuring

410
00:19:46,050 –> 00:19:46,736
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

411
00:19:46,433 –> 00:19:50,480
[ramsey_d_smith]: out how diversified you are not a
simple problem right so it’s not just

412
00:19:50,580 –> 00:19:50,863
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

413
00:19:51,241 –> 00:19:52,944
[ramsey_d_smith]: um you know joe the advisor

414
00:19:52,740 –> 00:19:53,610
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

415
00:19:53,144 –> 00:19:57,291
[ramsey_d_smith]: saying i’d like i’d like so i’d
like some europe i’d like like some us

416
00:19:57,331 –> 00:20:02,340
[ramsey_d_smith]: exposure et cetera because there are there
are correlations across those various assets as well

417
00:20:02,440 –> 00:20:04,343
[ramsey_d_smith]: so it’s i think

418
00:20:04,294 –> 00:20:04,520
[laurence]: oh

419
00:20:04,383 –> 00:20:09,091
[ramsey_d_smith]: that folks in the audience that would
they’re using a platform like this it’s important

420
00:20:09,131 –> 00:20:14,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: to understand that that it’s you can’t
really do it properly unless you have a

421
00:20:14,240 –> 00:20:21,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: pretty sophisticated engine under the hood to
be able to capture not just the obvious

422
00:20:21,087 –> 00:20:25,654
[ramsey_d_smith]: sources of diversification but also the less
obvious places where you may be is not

423
00:20:25,694 –> 00:20:26,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: as diversified as you think

424
00:20:27,959 –> 00:20:28,100
[paul_tyler]: yeah

425
00:20:28,795 –> 00:20:29,596
[laurence]: that’s a great point

426
00:20:29,400 –> 00:20:29,542
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

427
00:20:29,817 –> 00:20:33,743
[laurence]: and you know we do work with
chanics to get some of the data and

428
00:20:33,843 –> 00:20:39,493
[laurence]: brands joined us from them and actually
on our staff we’ve got mostly quits you

429
00:20:39,533 –> 00:20:43,079
[laurence]: know we have j watson who’s one
of our other partners he’s got a quant

430
00:20:43,199 –> 00:20:47,847
[laurence]: background we’ve got trent mckenna who also
has masters in finance j has a ph

431
00:20:47,887 –> 00:20:47,907
[laurence]: d

432
00:20:48,067 –> 00:20:48,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

433
00:20:48,107 –> 00:20:51,232
[laurence]: and brand slave has masters and working
on his ph d so

434
00:20:51,420 –> 00:20:51,643
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

435
00:20:51,994 –> 00:20:53,236
[laurence]: i’ve only got an m b a
so i’m

436
00:20:53,160 –> 00:20:53,402
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

437
00:20:53,296 –> 00:20:53,416
[laurence]: like

438
00:20:53,317 –> 00:20:53,521
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

439
00:20:53,496 –> 00:20:54,999
[laurence]: i feel you know these guys are

440
00:20:55,470 –> 00:20:56,790
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

441
00:20:55,860 –> 00:21:00,187
[laurence]: the smart guys that we have here
and yeahit’it’s very complicated and we spend a

442
00:21:00,368 –> 00:21:00,528
[laurence]: lot

443
00:21:00,476 –> 00:21:01,166
[paul_tyler]: oh

444
00:21:00,568 –> 00:21:04,074
[laurence]: of time modeling that out but the
key thing is we want to make it’s

445
00:21:04,234 –> 00:21:06,095
[laurence]: simple for people and present an

446
00:21:06,057 –> 00:21:06,077
[branislav_nikolic]: m

447
00:21:06,276 –> 00:21:09,659
[laurence]: apples to apples comparison we want to
help people and boil it down just what

448
00:21:09,699 –> 00:21:13,542
[laurence]: do you need to know here’s the
apples to apples comparison and here is a

449
00:21:13,582 –> 00:21:14,303
[laurence]: way to allocate

450
00:21:14,786 –> 00:21:15,071
[paul_tyler]: yeah

451
00:21:15,150 –> 00:21:15,170
[branislav_nikolic]: a

452
00:21:15,164 –> 00:21:16,491
[laurence]: this industry is too complicated

453
00:21:17,110 –> 00:21:17,252
[paul_tyler]: look

454
00:21:17,432 –> 00:21:21,599
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence one thing that you touched on
and i think it’s important in ramsey asked

455
00:21:21,639 –> 00:21:24,944
[branislav_nikolic]: this like has anyone done any of
this before and i think that we are

456
00:21:25,004 –> 00:21:29,712
[branislav_nikolic]: trying basically to raise the tide i
think that this industry requires all the parties

457
00:21:29,772 –> 00:21:34,921
[branislav_nikolic]: to collaborate and i think this is
where we get again great data and some

458
00:21:35,021 –> 00:21:37,645
[branislav_nikolic]: simple calculations for mechanics we have our
our index

459
00:21:38,617 –> 00:21:38,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

460
00:21:38,747 –> 00:21:40,910
[branislav_nikolic]: index forecast we have our

461
00:21:40,826 –> 00:21:40,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

462
00:21:41,010 –> 00:21:42,031
[branislav_nikolic]: model locations

463
00:21:42,343 –> 00:21:42,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

464
00:21:42,431 –> 00:21:45,054
[branislav_nikolic]: we are willing to work with others
because at the end of the day i

465
00:21:45,114 –> 00:21:49,678
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is a tide and i
think that shift has to happen it’s important

466
00:21:49,738 –> 00:21:55,141
[branislav_nikolic]: for it to happen again for again
for the end user it’s the most important

467
00:21:55,181 –> 00:22:01,606
[branislav_nikolic]: that this ship happens and legal point
of view will catch up the illustrations their

468
00:22:01,686 –> 00:22:06,514
[branislav_nikolic]: legal requirements the important part of it
but they don’t tell a full story and

469
00:22:06,594 –> 00:22:11,322
[branislav_nikolic]: we are trying to augment that story
that makes it more palatable and easier to

470
00:22:11,362 –> 00:22:16,751
[branislav_nikolic]: have as a conversation today but two
years from now if things don’t turn out

471
00:22:17,413 –> 00:22:20,397
[branislav_nikolic]: like what was shown in illustration that’s
the most important bit

472
00:22:20,887 –> 00:22:21,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

473
00:22:21,256 –> 00:22:25,924
[paul_tyler]: yea let me talk a little bit
more about what diversity actually means

474
00:22:25,777 –> 00:22:26,038
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

475
00:22:26,805 –> 00:22:27,266
[paul_tyler]: i like the

476
00:22:27,186 –> 00:22:27,307
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

477
00:22:27,306 –> 00:22:32,795
[paul_tyler]: fact lawrence you say we encourage people
to look at back tested returns against four

478
00:22:32,956 –> 00:22:36,401
[paul_tyler]: acid returns there’s also a time factor
right because

479
00:22:37,276 –> 00:22:37,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

480
00:22:37,804 –> 00:22:43,874
[paul_tyler]: if you think about possible outcomes you
may have one fund that appears to have

481
00:22:44,490 –> 00:22:44,993
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

482
00:22:44,495 –> 00:22:50,605
[paul_tyler]: highest likelihood or industry of great returns
but there are also some outliers right through

483
00:22:50,665 –> 00:22:51,607
[paul_tyler]: some cases where

484
00:22:51,541 –> 00:22:51,994
[laurence]: hm

485
00:22:52,829 –> 00:22:57,977
[paul_tyler]: wow tsa could get zero she might
get twenty and return she might get a

486
00:22:58,078 –> 00:22:59,700
[paul_tyler]: zero now if she’s

487
00:22:59,677 –> 00:22:59,800
[laurence]: yeah

488
00:22:59,760 –> 00:23:02,785
[paul_tyler]: about to retire two years from now
and start to pull money

489
00:23:02,786 –> 00:23:02,806
[laurence]: a

490
00:23:02,946 –> 00:23:06,331
[paul_tyler]: out how do i factor in the
possibility

491
00:23:05,949 –> 00:23:05,990
[laurence]: a

492
00:23:06,492 –> 00:23:08,575
[paul_tyler]: that there might be a zero here

493
00:23:09,444 –> 00:23:13,871
[laurence]: yeah right there’s so so much in
what you’ve asked me that

494
00:23:13,980 –> 00:23:15,030
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

495
00:23:14,292 –> 00:23:15,333
[laurence]: d love to talk about so

496
00:23:15,300 –> 00:23:15,563
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

497
00:23:16,155 –> 00:23:22,004
[laurence]: you know great thought so the first
thing is i think everyone really expect bench

498
00:23:22,084 –> 00:23:27,089
[laurence]: mark industries to give positive returns right
the last ten years accepted this year we’ve

499
00:23:27,129 –> 00:23:30,692
[laurence]: just seen positive return so people have
been treated and we all have this recency

500
00:23:30,812 –> 00:23:35,409
[laurence]: bias now this year we’re probably going
to see a negative on many of the

501
00:23:35,449 –> 00:23:40,136
[laurence]: major bench marks and next year if
you look at some of the one year

502
00:23:40,237 –> 00:23:43,462
[laurence]: forecasts that some of the investment banks
put out a couple of investment banks are

503
00:23:43,522 –> 00:23:44,644
[laurence]: calling for negative

504
00:23:44,400 –> 00:23:44,420
[branislav_nikolic]: m

505
00:23:44,684 –> 00:23:48,550
[laurence]: returns so i think people are going
to be shocked so what you really want

506
00:23:48,611 –> 00:23:53,058
[laurence]: to do is find industries that ying
and yang when you know one is up

507
00:23:53,358 –> 00:23:56,408
[laurence]: the other one’s down and vice versa
right so that’s what you got to find

508
00:23:56,568 –> 00:23:57,892
[laurence]: industries that yang and yang

509
00:23:58,249 –> 00:23:58,469
[bruno_caron]: oh

510
00:23:59,054 –> 00:24:03,178
[laurence]: then you want to blend them in
now why is this important i got to

511
00:24:03,258 –> 00:24:06,801
[laurence]: tell you i think the most important
thing in finance that we all tend to

512
00:24:06,862 –> 00:24:13,190
[laurence]: forget is compounding compounding is the magic
in finance right just by eking out a

513
00:24:13,230 –> 00:24:18,239
[laurence]: little positive return each year the next
year you’re compounding on a higher number so

514
00:24:18,740 –> 00:24:23,267
[laurence]: if you can get your client even
two or three and versus zero that

515
00:24:23,284 –> 00:24:23,367
[bruno_caron]: ah

516
00:24:23,367 –> 00:24:25,110
[laurence]: next year you’re going to start at
one o three

517
00:24:25,020 –> 00:24:25,890
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

518
00:24:25,711 –> 00:24:27,093
[laurence]: kind of compound that return so

519
00:24:27,480 –> 00:24:27,765
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

520
00:24:27,594 –> 00:24:30,960
[laurence]: compounding is the magic that’s what you
want to do is just get your clients

521
00:24:31,140 –> 00:24:34,110
[laurence]: a little positive return and you can
build wealth like that

522
00:24:34,980 –> 00:24:37,484
[branislav_nikolic]: lawrence i would like to kind of
add to that a bit and i think

523
00:24:37,504 –> 00:24:40,068
[branislav_nikolic]: this is an important one so when
you look into bench mark industries in the

524
00:24:40,128 –> 00:24:44,355
[branislav_nikolic]: last thirty years let’s say you would
see that we had like periods there will

525
00:24:44,415 –> 00:24:47,701
[branislav_nikolic]: last like seven or ten years and
then we have a correction so there was

526
00:24:47,761 –> 00:24:51,908
[branislav_nikolic]: no period of twenty years that you
had like positive high positive return there was

527
00:24:52,028 –> 00:24:56,315
[branislav_nikolic]: always something happening in the middle that
would kind of take us back and then

528
00:24:56,335 –> 00:24:57,657
[branislav_nikolic]: you have like the star

529
00:24:57,709 –> 00:24:57,830
[bruno_caron]: ye

530
00:24:57,738 –> 00:24:59,882
[branislav_nikolic]: grow look at a history of those
industries

531
00:24:59,749 –> 00:25:00,014
[bruno_caron]: oh

532
00:25:00,222 –> 00:25:04,431
[branislav_nikolic]: you had periods in thirties forties fifties
even sixties

533
00:25:04,240 –> 00:25:04,341
[bruno_caron]: ah

534
00:25:04,512 –> 00:25:07,618
[branislav_nikolic]: that they had like a constant seven
percent return so if we are

535
00:25:08,134 –> 00:25:08,154
[laurence]: m

536
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:10,914
[branislav_nikolic]: we can go back at a time
i think that

537
00:25:11,584 –> 00:25:11,888
[laurence]: oh

538
00:25:11,655 –> 00:25:15,281
[branislav_nikolic]: our conversation today will be obsolete if
you have a index returning seven percent year

539
00:25:15,421 –> 00:25:19,869
[branislav_nikolic]: over here here we are talking about
people thinking of averages but the sequence of

540
00:25:19,929 –> 00:25:23,712
[branislav_nikolic]: returns there’s a lot and then that’s
what i think will lawrence is saying i

541
00:25:23,752 –> 00:25:29,057
[branislav_nikolic]: would try to relate to the annuity
folks a little bit different is basically saying

542
00:25:29,097 –> 00:25:33,346
[branislav_nikolic]: that if you have a seven or
ten year annuity are you better off getting

543
00:25:34,670 –> 00:25:36,954
[branislav_nikolic]: solid returns three five

544
00:25:36,919 –> 00:25:36,939
[bruno_caron]: m

545
00:25:37,014 –> 00:25:41,441
[branislav_nikolic]: or seven out of out of ten
years or you should get positive return in

546
00:25:41,521 –> 00:25:45,107
[branislav_nikolic]: all ten of them and again depending
how these are using the plan if you’re

547
00:25:45,187 –> 00:25:50,236
[branislav_nikolic]: living of interest or or that a
fixed fixed credit you want it every year

548
00:25:50,416 –> 00:25:53,221
[branislav_nikolic]: and you want to be able to
plan so i guess it really matters how

549
00:25:53,301 –> 00:25:58,249
[branislav_nikolic]: you’re putting this into into into the
annuity as well another thing that became apparent

550
00:25:58,005 –> 00:25:58,026
[bruno_caron]: a

551
00:25:58,349 –> 00:25:59,912
[branislav_nikolic]: as ere doing the research for the
model

552
00:25:59,749 –> 00:26:00,010
[bruno_caron]: oh

553
00:25:59,972 –> 00:26:04,820
[branislav_nikolic]: of location was that there are some
strategies when you look on a forecast a

554
00:26:04,900 –> 00:26:08,266
[branislav_nikolic]: basis they don’t even bee to fix
rate again fixed rate a year ago we

555
00:26:08,286 –> 00:26:12,132
[branislav_nikolic]: wouldn’t be even talking about it but
today it is like three or four five

556
00:26:12,212 –> 00:26:12,693
[branislav_nikolic]: percent

557
00:26:13,031 –> 00:26:13,444
[laurence]: hm

558
00:26:13,294 –> 00:26:14,136
[branislav_nikolic]: and you have a strategy

559
00:26:13,789 –> 00:26:14,072
[bruno_caron]: yah

560
00:26:14,216 –> 00:26:15,197
[branislav_nikolic]: they have a forecast that

561
00:26:15,288 –> 00:26:15,349
[bruno_caron]: ah

562
00:26:15,297 –> 00:26:20,807
[branislav_nikolic]: any yield or return less than that
now that begs the question why at all

563
00:26:20,887 –> 00:26:26,674
[branislav_nikolic]: participate why don’t ye some of the
security of the high fixed rates going forward

564
00:26:27,094 –> 00:26:31,579
[branislav_nikolic]: and combine that with some with some
other industries again what five per cent will

565
00:26:32,360 –> 00:26:35,605
[branislav_nikolic]: keep you up with inflation of seven
i don’t think so but i don’t think

566
00:26:35,665 –> 00:26:39,431
[branislav_nikolic]: inflation of seven is going to be
year after year so a lot of a

567
00:26:39,491 –> 00:26:43,618
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of things to unpack and it’s
why i think that locating across everything that’s

568
00:26:43,658 –> 00:26:54,384
[branislav_nikolic]: available within annuity looking into this is
the recification strategy versification banking on historically high

569
00:26:54,765 –> 00:26:58,658
[branislav_nikolic]: rates i think there’s a lot a
lot to consider

570
00:26:59,714 –> 00:27:03,200
[laurence]: and actually barn said there’s also another
complexity you sort of people have the choice

571
00:27:03,260 –> 00:27:06,546
[laurence]: sort i choose a one year point
to point or two year or three year

572
00:27:06,766 –> 00:27:10,933
[laurence]: up to a six year right and
that’s another complexity that we look at and

573
00:27:10,993 –> 00:27:13,821
[laurence]: try figure that out so yeah there’s
a lot going on in these in these

574
00:27:13,881 –> 00:27:14,142
[laurence]: products

575
00:27:16,919 –> 00:27:17,400
[bruno_caron]: a lot’s going

576
00:27:17,377 –> 00:27:17,618
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

577
00:27:17,480 –> 00:27:21,587
[bruno_caron]: on to say the least and i
think there’s a lot of material in what

578
00:27:22,489 –> 00:27:24,292
[bruno_caron]: to unpack and what you just said

579
00:27:25,050 –> 00:27:25,920
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

580
00:27:25,113 –> 00:27:34,108
[bruno_caron]: in terms of decumulation the sequence of
return uh and all that diversification um if

581
00:27:34,268 –> 00:27:39,657
[bruno_caron]: we put all the pieces together you
you mentioned that

582
00:27:39,547 –> 00:27:39,807
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

583
00:27:39,797 –> 00:27:48,852
[bruno_caron]: yeah you’re launching this the model application
for for f i as um first of

584
00:27:48,893 –> 00:27:53,200
[bruno_caron]: all can you tell us a little
bit of you know some of the uh

585
00:27:53,661 –> 00:28:00,452
[bruno_caron]: the time line behind that and what
does that mean ultimately for for the consumer

586
00:28:00,592 –> 00:28:04,681
[bruno_caron]: and how are they going to be
able to use that that’s past to

587
00:28:06,314 –> 00:28:10,361
[laurence]: thanks bruno so we’ve we’ve been working
on this for the last year it’s taken

588
00:28:10,441 –> 00:28:16,291
[laurence]: us some time to model out more
than three thousand crediting strategies and then figure

589
00:28:16,371 –> 00:28:17,613
[laurence]: out an application so

590
00:28:17,580 –> 00:28:17,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

591
00:28:17,794 –> 00:28:19,837
[laurence]: you’re going to be launching in january

592
00:28:20,169 –> 00:28:20,349
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

593
00:28:20,578 –> 00:28:24,565
[laurence]: um you know we’re starting to tell
people and in fact we’re grateful to be

594
00:28:24,645 –> 00:28:27,910
[laurence]: here on on the on the podcast
right now and that’s part of our mission

595
00:28:27,990 –> 00:28:32,658
[laurence]: to tell people and so through the
course of december we’ll be letting a lot

596
00:28:32,698 –> 00:28:37,727
[laurence]: of our partners insurance carriers know and
then mid mid to end of jane we’ll

597
00:28:37,767 –> 00:28:41,172
[laurence]: be launching formally going to market and
telling everyone about it

598
00:28:41,311 –> 00:28:41,351
[branislav_nikolic]: m

599
00:28:41,633 –> 00:28:42,454
[laurence]: make and available

600
00:28:42,579 –> 00:28:42,600
[branislav_nikolic]: m

601
00:28:42,955 –> 00:28:47,300
[laurence]: we’ve already got one or two partners
who’ve signed on so we’re excited because it

602
00:28:47,340 –> 00:28:49,503
[laurence]: helps our mission we want to see
people do better

603
00:28:52,717 –> 00:28:53,217
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i was

604
00:28:53,160 –> 00:28:53,381
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

605
00:28:53,638 –> 00:29:03,211
[ramsey_d_smith]: i was recently in a conversation with
listen fairly sizable financial institution in you know

606
00:29:03,271 –> 00:29:09,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: in the advisory space i’ll say and
they were trying to figure out different ways

607
00:29:09,139 –> 00:29:15,510
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to incorporate more annuities into their
their platform and one of the challenges was

608
00:29:15,570 –> 00:29:21,240
[ramsey_d_smith]: that increasingly the advisors were being asked
less and less to make investment decisions and

609
00:29:21,260 –> 00:29:25,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were more focused on relationship management
and so the implication of that is that

610
00:29:25,687 –> 00:29:25,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: the

611
00:29:25,944 –> 00:29:26,089
[laurence]: yeah

612
00:29:26,308 –> 00:29:32,703
[ramsey_d_smith]: that the investment strategies the acid application
strategies actually come from a central source right

613
00:29:33,085 –> 00:29:36,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: and the centralized sources need to use

614
00:29:36,157 –> 00:29:36,342
[laurence]: yeah

615
00:29:36,568 –> 00:29:41,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: rely on models that use a lot
of data and so you think about use

616
00:29:41,717 –> 00:29:47,587
[ramsey_d_smith]: cases what you’re building here lawrence and
brandaslav is that you’re bringing you’re bringing robt

617
00:29:47,748 –> 00:29:53,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: data you know where it didn’t exist
before so that it can potentially be used

618
00:29:53,384 –> 00:29:57,231
[ramsey_d_smith]: at a you know at a sort
of an entity level

619
00:29:57,137 –> 00:29:57,281
[laurence]: kay

620
00:29:57,331 –> 00:30:01,117
[ramsey_d_smith]: if you will i like to call
it factory settings right at an entity level

621
00:30:01,698 –> 00:30:07,067
[ramsey_d_smith]: nd level for larger financial institutions so
that at the end of the day know

622
00:30:07,347 –> 00:30:11,094
[ramsey_d_smith]: the advisor the advisor will be able
to rely on something that’s been fully veded

623
00:30:11,655 –> 00:30:15,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: at an institutional level but in order
for all that to work you know you

624
00:30:15,641 –> 00:30:20,109
[ramsey_d_smith]: have to have reliable data and to
your point earlier it didn’t really didn’t exist

625
00:30:20,469 –> 00:30:27,830
[ramsey_d_smith]: across the whole sort of spectrum of
offerings until guys launch this product so grat

626
00:30:30,174 –> 00:30:34,061
[laurence]: yeah thank you know i’ll make a
remark and then see if brandon has anything

627
00:30:34,121 –> 00:30:38,268
[laurence]: to add you know one of the
things we see having worked for a large

628
00:30:38,328 –> 00:30:42,876
[laurence]: financial institution in my in my prior
life one of the key things is everyone

629
00:30:42,956 –> 00:30:44,920
[laurence]: wants some kind of forecast

630
00:30:45,007 –> 00:30:45,108
[paul_tyler]: ah

631
00:30:45,301 –> 00:30:50,912
[laurence]: expected returns expected volatility what’s the correlation
they need those to plug into their model

632
00:30:52,064 –> 00:30:55,369
[laurence]: and in the annuity space there’s been
nothing now with what we do at the

633
00:30:55,429 –> 00:31:00,758
[laurence]: ende standard we’re able to provide expected
returns expected volatility and we know the correlation

634
00:31:00,838 –> 00:31:06,330
[laurence]: so we can help feel those those
dis sons that these institutions are having we

635
00:31:06,390 –> 00:31:12,104
[laurence]: can provide the imputs and i think
my final observation is this that i think

636
00:31:12,144 –> 00:31:17,473
[laurence]: if you were to use some of
the expect to expected returns we see i

637
00:31:17,553 –> 00:31:21,901
[laurence]: think the annuities would get a bigger
allocation than they have been because you know

638
00:31:21,981 –> 00:31:26,369
[laurence]: they have no downside risking case of
fear arilayouknow it’s kept and some

639
00:31:26,400 –> 00:31:26,640
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

640
00:31:26,409 –> 00:31:30,416
[laurence]: of the expected returns might be three
four five six very consistent so i think

641
00:31:30,437 –> 00:31:33,082
[laurence]: they get a larger allocation and that
would surprise

642
00:31:32,802 –> 00:31:32,967
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

643
00:31:33,142 –> 00:31:34,744
[laurence]: a lot of people brand left

644
00:31:35,852 –> 00:31:40,440
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah i think there’s there’s like to
two levels of this conversation one is how

645
00:31:40,480 –> 00:31:44,667
[branislav_nikolic]: do you incorporate is in the broader
porfolia and when lawrence mentioned knowing what this

646
00:31:44,727 –> 00:31:50,597
[branislav_nikolic]: could return at what level of i
think would make advisors more comfortable again we

647
00:31:50,677 –> 00:31:55,565
[branislav_nikolic]: have a generation of advisors who grew
up in a in a bull market right

648
00:31:55,705 –> 00:32:02,256
[branislav_nikolic]: and would you ever consider an annuity
a safe investment downside when you never had

649
00:32:02,356 –> 00:32:06,183
[branislav_nikolic]: to now i think we are getting
to that realization that that that that’s goin

650
00:32:06,223 –> 00:32:11,652
[branislav_nikolic]: to start happening and again a lot
of great too is available out there a

651
00:32:11,712 –> 00:32:18,643
[branislav_nikolic]: lot of a lot of parties providing
phenomenal either end to end processes or optimal

652
00:32:18,784 –> 00:32:25,398
[branislav_nikolic]: product locations or simulators of how well
you do where you lock should locate your

653
00:32:25,498 –> 00:32:31,701
[branislav_nikolic]: assets the key is that no one
knew how to project ger quotes the annuity

654
00:32:31,781 –> 00:32:32,943
[branislav_nikolic]: going forward and i

655
00:32:33,013 –> 00:32:33,034
[laurence]: m

656
00:32:33,023 –> 00:32:36,487
[branislav_nikolic]: think this is this is important piece
that we that we bring bring bring to

657
00:32:36,547 –> 00:32:36,627
[branislav_nikolic]: the

658
00:32:36,561 –> 00:32:36,643
[paul_tyler]: ah

659
00:32:36,667 –> 00:32:44,366
[branislav_nikolic]: table again something that it’s showing not
only in the retail market but

660
00:32:44,376 –> 00:32:45,516
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

661
00:32:44,447 –> 00:32:49,495
[branislav_nikolic]: more importantly now spilling over into an
institutional market as well the people are adopting

662
00:32:49,555 –> 00:32:55,685
[branislav_nikolic]: these concepts d c pension plan level
that really kind of add the validity to

663
00:32:55,765 –> 00:33:00,493
[branislav_nikolic]: it and it kind of adds to
the eds conversation that if super conservative folks

664
00:33:00,694 –> 00:33:02,637
[branislav_nikolic]: and legal kind of legally aware

665
00:33:03,146 –> 00:33:03,896
[paul_tyler]: oh

666
00:33:04,361 –> 00:33:09,062
[branislav_nikolic]: are considering adding these into the mix
had to be a good thing so so

667
00:33:09,162 –> 00:33:12,846
[branislav_nikolic]: so at a lot a lot is
happening and we we we love to be

668
00:33:13,006 –> 00:33:15,049
[branislav_nikolic]: to be a part of part of
that conversation for sure

669
00:33:14,946 –> 00:33:15,127
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

670
00:33:15,786 –> 00:33:20,534
[paul_tyler]: no i honestly think you could be
the next morning star right in the

671
00:33:20,670 –> 00:33:21,270
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

672
00:33:21,055 –> 00:33:23,919
[paul_tyler]: space i don’t know if that infringes
on cope

673
00:33:23,820 –> 00:33:24,265
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

674
00:33:24,040 –> 00:33:24,540
[paul_tyler]: rites but

675
00:33:24,484 –> 00:33:24,705
[laurence]: oh

676
00:33:25,101 –> 00:33:25,602
[paul_tyler]: lawrence that’s what

677
00:33:25,590 –> 00:33:25,870
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

678
00:33:25,642 –> 00:33:25,983
[paul_tyler]: i call you

679
00:33:26,631 –> 00:33:26,872
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

680
00:33:26,684 –> 00:33:30,711
[paul_tyler]: so you know ve been doing so
much work with you know agents helping themselves

681
00:33:30,791 –> 00:33:31,232
[paul_tyler]: digitally

682
00:33:30,999 –> 00:33:31,200
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

683
00:33:31,312 –> 00:33:33,495
[paul_tyler]: tell a story talking to consumers

684
00:33:33,345 –> 00:33:33,366
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

685
00:33:34,016 –> 00:33:39,525
[paul_tyler]: you know what goes through your mind
when you think about trying explain something this

686
00:33:39,626 –> 00:33:43,439
[paul_tyler]: complex on a website in a brosirt
in a video

687
00:33:43,609 –> 00:33:48,051
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm yeah i mean when i think
lawrence i heard you talk about you know

688
00:33:48,292 –> 00:33:51,196
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the mer and missus smith or the
generic consumer

689
00:33:51,630 –> 00:33:52,710
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

690
00:33:51,757 –> 00:33:57,648
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: are retiring out there thinking about planning
and de mystifying the idea of an annuity

691
00:33:57,709 –> 00:34:04,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: and the complexities of what we’re talking
about how does your presentation or or the

692
00:34:04,933 –> 00:34:08,679
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: educational tools at you’re offering how does
it break it down for them to kind

693
00:34:08,719 –> 00:34:14,849
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of combat the emotional side of the
decision right um you’ve talked about the changing

694
00:34:15,911 –> 00:34:18,896
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: interest rates and inflation and all the
things that are ahead and a lot of

695
00:34:18,936 –> 00:34:23,183
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the unknowns that are on head ahead
how does the tool kind of speak to

696
00:34:23,223 –> 00:34:23,384
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

697
00:34:23,454 –> 00:34:23,596
[laurence]: yeah

698
00:34:23,564 –> 00:34:26,688
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: emotional side oh i’ll say fear but

699
00:34:27,314 –> 00:34:27,743
[laurence]: damn

700
00:34:27,469 –> 00:34:30,953
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at least sort of that uncertainty that’s
ahead and that agent or advisor bringing him

701
00:34:31,013 –> 00:34:32,875
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: through those conversations

702
00:34:32,190 –> 00:34:33,090
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

703
00:34:34,354 –> 00:34:39,723
[laurence]: i think in a couple ways so
firstly what we do is for each index

704
00:34:39,943 –> 00:34:44,010
[laurence]: we evaluated so we’ll put a platinum
gold and silver

705
00:34:43,746 –> 00:34:43,908
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

706
00:34:44,070 –> 00:34:44,992
[laurence]: and so on so that

707
00:34:45,028 –> 00:34:45,495
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: got reading

708
00:34:45,392 –> 00:34:48,718
[laurence]: you can add glance see what that
index is doing so it

709
00:34:48,722 –> 00:34:49,236
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

710
00:34:48,758 –> 00:34:52,604
[laurence]: might be a little bit unfamiliar but
you get our sort of stamp of whether

711
00:34:52,644 –> 00:34:57,292
[laurence]: we think it’s a robust and well
designed index now the other thing we do

712
00:34:57,733 –> 00:35:03,445
[laurence]: is we all know finance is complex
and people love to use complicated

713
00:35:03,330 –> 00:35:03,596
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

714
00:35:03,505 –> 00:35:04,368
[laurence]: language so we actually

715
00:35:04,290 –> 00:35:05,460
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

716
00:35:04,448 –> 00:35:06,052
[laurence]: have a copy writer on our staff

717
00:35:06,177 –> 00:35:06,360
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

718
00:35:06,714 –> 00:35:10,484
[laurence]: and we try and use straight forward
and clear language so i give you the

719
00:35:10,544 –> 00:35:16,560
[laurence]: example the way we would describe a
risk control index we just say cushions and

720
00:35:16,620 –> 00:35:17,102
[laurence]: it’s smooth

721
00:35:18,369 –> 00:35:18,512
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

722
00:35:18,504 –> 00:35:22,472
[laurence]: and then the final thing that we
do is we have our forecasting reports

723
00:35:22,800 –> 00:35:23,041
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

724
00:35:23,804 –> 00:35:26,711
[laurence]: and we very clearly show here that
the last ten

725
00:35:26,639 –> 00:35:26,820
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

726
00:35:26,771 –> 00:35:32,121
[laurence]: years maybe you got let’s say six
per cent and then here is what how

727
00:35:32,201 –> 00:35:35,206
[laurence]: we applied the wisdom of wall street
to that index and maybe you’re gonna get

728
00:35:35,867 –> 00:35:40,415
[laurence]: seven eight or nine or maybe you
got sixteen in history and we think you’re

729
00:35:40,435 –> 00:35:44,181
[laurence]: going to get full but we have
very clear bar chart so we try and

730
00:35:44,261 –> 00:35:52,475
[laurence]: provide people with visual simple language and
easy to understand demonicaswgoald platinum and

731
00:35:52,466 –> 00:35:53,156
[paul_tyler]: yeah

732
00:35:52,535 –> 00:35:52,836
[laurence]: so on

733
00:35:52,827 –> 00:35:53,256
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

734
00:35:53,217 –> 00:35:55,683
[laurence]: to really help people when they’re making
those decisions

735
00:35:55,976 –> 00:35:56,436
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah the gold

736
00:35:56,317 –> 00:35:56,500
[paul_tyler]: yeah

737
00:35:56,476 –> 00:35:58,578
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: silver plate that’s you know those are
the star

738
00:35:58,556 –> 00:35:58,879
[paul_tyler]: oh

739
00:35:58,678 –> 00:35:59,579
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: reviews rights really

740
00:35:59,486 –> 00:35:59,707
[paul_tyler]: oh

741
00:35:59,679 –> 00:36:00,140
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: at a glance

742
00:36:00,990 –> 00:36:01,231
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

743
00:36:01,261 –> 00:36:02,662
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: here’s the top middle and maybe

744
00:36:02,899 –> 00:36:03,039
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

745
00:36:03,142 –> 00:36:03,282
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: not

746
00:36:03,326 –> 00:36:03,694
[paul_tyler]: oh

747
00:36:03,382 –> 00:36:04,383
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so good

748
00:36:04,755 –> 00:36:05,159
[laurence]: exactly

749
00:36:05,216 –> 00:36:05,396
[paul_tyler]: yeah

750
00:36:05,700 –> 00:36:06,143
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

751
00:36:05,765 –> 00:36:06,105
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

752
00:36:06,918 –> 00:36:06,938
[paul_tyler]: i

753
00:36:07,006 –> 00:36:07,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

754
00:36:07,058 –> 00:36:09,320
[paul_tyler]: love it bruno you know we’re close
to the top

755
00:36:09,318 –> 00:36:09,339
[branislav_nikolic]: a

756
00:36:09,360 –> 00:36:09,881
[paul_tyler]: of the hour i mean

757
00:36:09,937 –> 00:36:10,139
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

758
00:36:09,941 –> 00:36:11,622
[paul_tyler]: what are your what

759
00:36:11,557 –> 00:36:11,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

760
00:36:11,662 –> 00:36:11,863
[paul_tyler]: are your

761
00:36:11,860 –> 00:36:11,940
[bruno_caron]: ah

762
00:36:11,883 –> 00:36:13,464
[paul_tyler]: thoughts questions observations

763
00:36:14,324 –> 00:36:14,544
[bruno_caron]: well

764
00:36:14,846 –> 00:36:15,626
[paul_tyler]: oh

765
00:36:15,085 –> 00:36:16,307
[bruno_caron]: number one i think it’s

766
00:36:16,567 –> 00:36:16,811
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

767
00:36:17,469 –> 00:36:18,391
[bruno_caron]: it’s wonderful

768
00:36:18,307 –> 00:36:18,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

769
00:36:18,511 –> 00:36:23,138
[bruno_caron]: that we’re going back or at least
you guys are going back to some of

770
00:36:23,319 –> 00:36:28,828
[bruno_caron]: basic some of the textbook concepts i
mean we live in a world of headlines

771
00:36:29,189 –> 00:36:29,489
[bruno_caron]: and you

772
00:36:29,460 –> 00:36:29,763
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

773
00:36:29,509 –> 00:36:33,516
[bruno_caron]: know this is going on this is
going to just the fact that you’re framing

774
00:36:33,556 –> 00:36:38,524
[bruno_caron]: it that you’re actually putting it in
to a um some sort of framework some

775
00:36:38,584 –> 00:36:44,494
[bruno_caron]: sort of boundaries and sort of ratings
and in perspective with with the rest of

776
00:36:44,514 –> 00:36:49,242
[bruno_caron]: the economy i think that adds significant
value and i think that’s a that’s a

777
00:36:49,302 –> 00:36:52,386
[bruno_caron]: really that’s a very useful set for
for the industry

778
00:36:52,216 –> 00:36:52,237
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

779
00:36:54,138 –> 00:36:54,499
[paul_tyler]: ramsey

780
00:36:54,205 –> 00:36:54,512
[laurence]: thank you

781
00:36:55,057 –> 00:36:55,341
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

782
00:36:55,112 –> 00:36:55,377
[branislav_nikolic]: thank you

783
00:36:55,423 –> 00:36:56,126
[paul_tyler]: you want you want to bring

784
00:36:56,174 –> 00:36:56,317
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

785
00:36:56,187 –> 00:36:56,448
[paul_tyler]: us some

786
00:36:57,027 –> 00:37:02,195
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah so i wholeheartedly agree this is
this is an area that’s expanded

787
00:37:03,026 –> 00:37:03,312
[paul_tyler]: oh

788
00:37:03,187 –> 00:37:06,652
[ramsey_d_smith]: dramatically and again the choices expanded

789
00:37:06,656 –> 00:37:06,923
[paul_tyler]: oh

790
00:37:06,753 –> 00:37:10,859
[ramsey_d_smith]: much more quickly than the analytical framework
behind it and

791
00:37:10,925 –> 00:37:10,946
[paul_tyler]: m

792
00:37:11,200 –> 00:37:15,447
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know we live in a we
live in an environment where the elytics

793
00:37:15,390 –> 00:37:15,755
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

794
00:37:15,487 –> 00:37:18,112
[ramsey_d_smith]: are important they’re important for legal reasons
they’re important for

795
00:37:18,101 –> 00:37:18,202
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

796
00:37:18,432 –> 00:37:23,801
[ramsey_d_smith]: just helping people make the make the
right decision they’re important for helping people feel

797
00:37:23,921 –> 00:37:30,552
[ramsey_d_smith]: comfortable with their decisions and you know
as as i mentioned before i think it’s

798
00:37:30,592 –> 00:37:36,562
[ramsey_d_smith]: going to be useful certainly at the
consumer level at the advisor level i think

799
00:37:36,742 –> 00:37:42,249
[ramsey_d_smith]: very importantly at the institutional level where
you know the burdens of the burdens of

800
00:37:42,870 –> 00:37:46,513
[ramsey_d_smith]: proof if you will are very high
i think that this is this is this

801
00:37:46,573 –> 00:37:51,327
[ramsey_d_smith]: is going to be very important and
and it’s something that gets asked about a

802
00:37:51,407 –> 00:37:53,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of meetings when you’re if you’re
talking to

803
00:37:53,824 –> 00:37:54,454
[laurence]: oh

804
00:37:53,971 –> 00:37:57,497
[ramsey_d_smith]: larger insurance companies and this is something
that comes up a lot this isn’t this

805
00:37:57,537 –> 00:38:02,265
[ramsey_d_smith]: has been an unanswered question so i
think this is this is this is this

806
00:38:02,325 –> 00:38:03,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: is a great initiative

807
00:38:05,656 –> 00:38:07,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah lawrence you know you saw

808
00:38:08,107 –> 00:38:08,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

809
00:38:08,180 –> 00:38:08,841
[paul_tyler]: afa on

810
00:38:08,880 –> 00:38:09,750
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

811
00:38:09,602 –> 00:38:10,163
[paul_tyler]: that discussion

812
00:38:10,140 –> 00:38:10,321
[branislav_nikolic]: ye

813
00:38:10,243 –> 00:38:11,926
[paul_tyler]: panel how much

814
00:38:12,157 –> 00:38:12,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

815
00:38:12,780 –> 00:38:13,620
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

816
00:38:13,248 –> 00:38:14,491
[paul_tyler]: independent marketing organizations

817
00:38:14,122 –> 00:38:14,286
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

818
00:38:14,891 –> 00:38:18,577
[paul_tyler]: need this type of tool for their
marketers and for their agent so i think

819
00:38:18,617 –> 00:38:23,382
[paul_tyler]: the time couldn’t be better what’s the
best way for people to find out more

820
00:38:23,462 –> 00:38:26,024
[paul_tyler]: about your product or reach out to
you personally

821
00:38:27,034 –> 00:38:33,965
[laurence]: sure so our website has a lot
of greater information and that’s the index standard

822
00:38:34,025 –> 00:38:38,854
[laurence]: dot com and you can email us
at info at the index standard dot com

823
00:38:39,475 –> 00:38:44,062
[laurence]: i’m also pretty active on linked in
so brandon slab please follow us we also

824
00:38:44,122 –> 00:38:48,229
[laurence]: have linked in at the index standard
follow us and we kind of put some

825
00:38:48,429 –> 00:38:51,786
[laurence]: our insights there and of course our
newsletter as well with with you guys

826
00:38:52,516 –> 00:38:55,721
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right well listen thanks so
much for joining us we

827
00:38:55,770 –> 00:38:56,011
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

828
00:38:55,781 –> 00:39:00,509
[paul_tyler]: want to thank all our listeners and
you know please give us feedback comments and

829
00:39:00,649 –> 00:39:02,412
[paul_tyler]: as long as they’re good bruno i

830
00:39:02,400 –> 00:39:02,701
[branislav_nikolic]: oh

831
00:39:02,492 –> 00:39:02,713
[paul_tyler]: actually

832
00:39:02,644 –> 00:39:02,726
[laurence]: ye

833
00:39:02,733 –> 00:39:04,676
[paul_tyler]: had somebody coming on my audio

834
00:39:04,661 –> 00:39:04,681
[branislav_nikolic]: m

835
00:39:04,796 –> 00:39:05,518
[paul_tyler]: editing skills and

836
00:39:06,319 –> 00:39:09,769
[bruno_caron]: uh

837
00:39:06,720 –> 00:39:06,981
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

838
00:39:07,601 –> 00:39:08,462
[paul_tyler]: a lack thereof

839
00:39:08,688 –> 00:39:08,889
[branislav_nikolic]: yah

840
00:39:09,244 –> 00:39:10,826
[paul_tyler]: so we we welcome all

841
00:39:10,710 –> 00:39:10,930
[branislav_nikolic]: yeah

842
00:39:11,067 –> 00:39:13,050
[paul_tyler]: and you know listen join us again
next

843
00:39:13,058 –> 00:39:13,078
[bruno_caron]: h

844
00:39:13,150 –> 00:39:16,316
[paul_tyler]: week for another episode of that annuity

845
00:39:16,419 –> 00:39:16,479
[branislav_nikolic]: ah

846
00:39:16,436 –> 00:39:17,242
[paul_tyler]: show thanks

847
00:39:20,767 –> 00:39:21,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

848
00:39:33,487 –> 00:39:37,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh oh oh

Nick DesrocherEpisode 176: Thoughtfully Recommending Indices with Laurence Black and Branislav Nikolic
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Episode 175: Thinking Ahead Of Older Age with Marti DeLiema, Naomi Karp, and Steve Vernon

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Dementia presents a growing risk for all of us as we age. Research shows that even mild cognitive impairment makes it hard for people to manage their money on their own. Today we speak with Marti DeLiema, Naomi Karp, and Steve Vernon about a project designed to help. It’s called the Thinking Ahead Roadmap. It’s free on the web and intended to start important planning conversations today.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://thinkingaheadroadmap.org/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marti-deliema-95323535/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-karp-728355b/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/svernon/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:01,430 –> 00:00:07,240
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and think

2
00:00:07,300 –> 00:00:14,291
[paul_tyler]: again we have a great returning guest
along with colleagues of his who looking to

3
00:00:14,331 –> 00:00:18,659
[paul_tyler]: solve a very very interesting pressing problem
for a lot of people which is how

4
00:00:18,719 –> 00:00:21,043
[paul_tyler]: do you actually plan

5
00:00:21,032 –> 00:00:21,279
[steve_vernon]: yeah

6
00:00:21,383 –> 00:00:27,212
[paul_tyler]: for the use of your retirement money
later in life you know later it’s as

7
00:00:27,252 –> 00:00:31,797
[paul_tyler]: hard as it is to save sometimes
it gets even much even harder if you’re

8
00:00:32,598 –> 00:00:35,633
[paul_tyler]: uh as you get older but also
as you have

9
00:00:35,695 –> 00:00:35,943
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

10
00:00:36,094 –> 00:00:39,960
[paul_tyler]: parents who may be getting older so
bruno welcome good to

11
00:00:39,979 –> 00:00:40,180
[bruno_caron]: thank

12
00:00:40,000 –> 00:00:40,220
[paul_tyler]: see you

13
00:00:40,240 –> 00:00:40,381
[bruno_caron]: you

14
00:00:41,022 –> 00:00:47,575
[paul_tyler]: great and ramsey can you actually do
the introductions and maybe a little better color

15
00:00:47,685 –> 00:00:47,925
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would

16
00:00:47,796 –> 00:00:48,317
[paul_tyler]: on a topic

17
00:00:48,106 –> 00:00:48,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would be

18
00:00:48,397 –> 00:00:48,618
[paul_tyler]: today

19
00:00:48,466 –> 00:00:53,955
[ramsey_d_smith]: happy to you first of all very
excited to have steve vernon back on after

20
00:00:54,148 –> 00:00:54,838
[bruno_caron]: yah

21
00:00:54,216 –> 00:00:57,321
[ramsey_d_smith]: think it’s probably been a year since
the last time he was on for those

22
00:00:57,361 –> 00:01:00,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: of you don’t know steve is the
founder

23
00:00:59,820 –> 00:01:00,042
[paul_tyler]: oh

24
00:01:00,326 –> 00:01:05,515
[ramsey_d_smith]: of rest of life communications prior to
that he was at the stanford longevity center

25
00:01:05,635 –> 00:01:06,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: for for

26
00:01:06,120 –> 00:01:06,840
[paul_tyler]: oh

27
00:01:06,236 –> 00:01:10,603
[ramsey_d_smith]: many years and has been a leading
light in the space of longevity

28
00:01:10,329 –> 00:01:10,350
[paul_tyler]: m

29
00:01:11,525 –> 00:01:13,588
[ramsey_d_smith]: of his colleagues from the stanford longevity
center

30
00:01:13,980 –> 00:01:14,243
[paul_tyler]: oh

31
00:01:14,389 –> 00:01:19,999
[ramsey_d_smith]: are here today and they’ve been spear
heading really a new effort that we wanted

32
00:01:20,279 –> 00:01:23,004
[ramsey_d_smith]: to bring the light and i’m going
to introduce each of them now so first

33
00:01:23,885 –> 00:01:24,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: marty delima

34
00:01:24,279 –> 00:01:24,300
[paul_tyler]: m

35
00:01:24,647 –> 00:01:28,693
[ramsey_d_smith]: who is a ph d at the
university of minnesota and has er ph d

36
00:01:29,034 –> 00:01:34,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: in jerantology is joining us as well
as naomi carp who is a lawyer and

37
00:01:34,463 –> 00:01:37,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: independent consult focused on aging law and

38
00:01:37,650 –> 00:01:37,957
[paul_tyler]: oh

39
00:01:37,788 –> 00:01:43,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: policy and you know one of the
things that was really striking to me about

40
00:01:43,258 –> 00:01:46,643
[ramsey_d_smith]: the project and were looking forward to
hearing about each of you as well as

41
00:01:46,683 –> 00:01:51,371
[ramsey_d_smith]: what led you to um to this
project is that one that it’s not for

42
00:01:51,431 –> 00:02:00,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: profit and to it is very focused
on helping consumers final find the right path

43
00:02:00,526 –> 00:02:04,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: not just the not just the financial
part in and of itself but finding the

44
00:02:04,854 –> 00:02:09,501
[ramsey_d_smith]: right path the right way to organize
themselves ahead of ahead of preparing for retirement

45
00:02:09,521 –> 00:02:14,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: and that’s that’s that’s an extraordinary tant
function so thanks thank you for doing that

46
00:02:15,071 –> 00:02:19,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: but we’d love to hear from each
of you about about your experiences and in

47
00:02:19,738 –> 00:02:25,355
[ramsey_d_smith]: particular tell us a little bit about
what brought you to this particular project so

48
00:02:25,757 –> 00:02:26,702
[ramsey_d_smith]: marty why don’t we start with you

49
00:02:28,949 –> 00:02:33,315
[marti_deliema__phd]: so i’m really excited to share more
about the thinking ahead road map which is

50
00:02:33,475 –> 00:02:33,742
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

51
00:02:33,475 –> 00:02:38,547
[marti_deliema__phd]: really a tool to help adults identify
someone in their life who they trust to

52
00:02:38,627 –> 00:02:42,057
[marti_deliema__phd]: help them with money management as they
age

53
00:02:42,295 –> 00:02:42,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

54
00:02:43,069 –> 00:02:48,022
[marti_deliema__phd]: so you know we often think about
you know i were in a car accident

55
00:02:48,102 –> 00:02:52,625
[marti_deliema__phd]: if something happened to me and i
was in the hospital would i designate to

56
00:02:52,685 –> 00:02:57,590
[marti_deliema__phd]: make my health care choices for me
and make medical decisions what we often fail

57
00:02:57,690 –> 00:03:02,275
[marti_deliema__phd]: to consider is who will help pay
my bills who will help make sure that

58
00:03:02,335 –> 00:03:05,142
[marti_deliema__phd]: my assets are managed properly as i

59
00:03:05,155 –> 00:03:05,755
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

60
00:03:05,264 –> 00:03:05,770
[marti_deliema__phd]: get older

61
00:03:06,217 –> 00:03:06,360
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

62
00:03:06,719 –> 00:03:08,502
[marti_deliema__phd]: yet we live in a society where
we

63
00:03:08,466 –> 00:03:08,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

64
00:03:08,582 –> 00:03:13,510
[marti_deliema__phd]: don’t like to talk about money not
with family not with friends so really this

65
00:03:13,610 –> 00:03:19,141
[marti_deliema__phd]: tool that we developed is to help
aging adults start having those conversations with family

66
00:03:19,201 –> 00:03:20,809
[marti_deliema__phd]: members identify someone

67
00:03:20,845 –> 00:03:21,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

68
00:03:20,849 –> 00:03:26,146
[marti_deliema__phd]: who can be their financial advocate authorize
that person to get set up as their

69
00:03:26,306 –> 00:03:30,116
[marti_deliema__phd]: agent under a power of attorney and
to help them as they age to keep

70
00:03:30,176 –> 00:03:30,938
[marti_deliema__phd]: their money safe

71
00:03:31,335 –> 00:03:37,373
[ramsey_d_smith]: got it and so what what led
you to to pursue a career in ngerentology

72
00:03:39,075 –> 00:03:39,198
[steve_vernon]: yes

73
00:03:39,199 –> 00:03:39,579
[marti_deliema__phd]: well i

74
00:03:39,724 –> 00:03:39,745
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

75
00:03:39,940 –> 00:03:43,143
[marti_deliema__phd]: am a financial exploitation and fraud researcher

76
00:03:43,268 –> 00:03:43,392
[ramsey_d_smith]: thank

77
00:03:43,683 –> 00:03:47,727
[marti_deliema__phd]: and i used to sit in on
meetings of adult protective service workers and law

78
00:03:47,807 –> 00:03:48,428
[marti_deliema__phd]: enforcement

79
00:03:48,756 –> 00:03:48,898
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

80
00:03:48,999 –> 00:03:54,007
[marti_deliema__phd]: and they would always say time and
time again if someone had just stepped in

81
00:03:54,167 –> 00:04:00,598
[marti_deliema__phd]: and helped manage this person’s money before
they started experiencing dementia before they started having

82
00:04:00,618 –> 00:04:06,305
[marti_deliema__phd]: these health problems they wouldn’t have lost
you know fifty two thousand dollars in a

83
00:04:06,385 –> 00:04:10,352
[marti_deliema__phd]: scan so i got me to think
you know if we start engaging in earlier

84
00:04:10,472 –> 00:04:15,179
[marti_deliema__phd]: planning for ourselves and for our family
members we can actually prove a lot of

85
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[marti_deliema__phd]: the major financial losses in later life
that are simply due to not having

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[ramsey_d_smith]: my

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[marti_deliema__phd]: someone involved in overseeing our finances and
our financial decisions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: we

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[paul_tyler]: no me tell us tell us about
your background you’re coming from a very different

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[paul_tyler]: direction the legal side of planning and
taking care of legal issues in later age

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[naomi_karp]: ah yes that’s right although i have
to say when i decided to become a

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[naomi_karp]: lawyer it was because i wanted to
work in the public sector and then on

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[naomi_karp]: profit sector

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[naomi_karp]: and i started my legal career representing
low income and older

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: adults so um now we’re

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[naomi_karp]: going back

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: you know thirty plus years i started
out in the field and then over time

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[naomi_karp]: i moved more into advocacy policy and
research and have ted a variety of non

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[naomi_karp]: profits including a r p in the
american bar association um and finally worked as

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[naomi_karp]: a a federal

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[naomi_karp]: employee at the relatively new consumer financial
protection bureau which had an office specifically to

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[naomi_karp]: protect the finances of older adults but
overall of this time i’ve worked a lot

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[naomi_karp]: on issues around advanced planing cognitive decline
and how do we protect the most vulnerable

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[naomi_karp]: older adults

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: and so i’ve been thinking about these
issues and i think already expressed it well

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[naomi_karp]: that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[naomi_karp]: we have a lot of visibility on
health care decision making and less so financial

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[naomi_karp]: decision making and the need to plan
for the fact that someone might have to

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[naomi_karp]: step into your shoes and do that
and finally i’ll also just mention that my

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[naomi_karp]: mother about to turn ninety eight i
am her financial advocate i am her agent

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[naomi_karp]: under power

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[naomi_karp]: of attorney she has

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[naomi_karp]: had

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: advance to mention has had

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: a stroke so i’m living this every
day and

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: so i’ve seen it both from the
point of view of the older adult and

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[naomi_karp]: um that next generation wherever that trusted
person is who has to step in

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[naomi_karp]: and i know the challenges of doing
that job so i want to help people

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[naomi_karp]: from that standpoint as well

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[ramsey_d_smith]: all right steve

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: steve you

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[steve_vernon]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you had you had a long career
in this space and then retired and you’re

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: back in it

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[paul_tyler]: uh

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you are

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[steve_vernon]: right

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[paul_tyler]: uh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you were fully

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: committed

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: hales talk to us

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[steve_vernon]: says you know i’ve worked long in
retirement

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[steve_vernon]: income strategies and retirement decision

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[steve_vernon]: making and that was the focus of
my research at the stanford center longevity and

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[steve_vernon]: like naomi my wife and i had
each gone through this with our own parents

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[steve_vernon]: and we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[steve_vernon]: were flying by the seat of our
pants trying to help them manage their finances

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[steve_vernon]: and when marty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[steve_vernon]: when we were working together at the
stanford sitter in longevity she was just down

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[steve_vernon]: the hall when i heard about this
project it took me about ten seconds to

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[steve_vernon]: say marty i want to help

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[steve_vernon]: because i see that as this as
a retirement planning issue which is right in

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[steve_vernon]: my bailiwick of what i’ve been working
on

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[steve_vernon]: and i recognized

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[steve_vernon]: the need

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a

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[steve_vernon]: having like naomi having gone through this
with our parents and so that’s really what

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[steve_vernon]: got me gladly working with martian naomi
on this project

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yea

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[bruno_caron]: i think that’s remarkable and the power
of actually

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[bruno_caron]: doing it plus you know obviously the
the text book and the the rest the

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[bruno_caron]: way to think about it

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[steve_vernon]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: i think that’s a very a very
powerful combination and to no surprise that brings

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: very strong results with everything that you’ve
you’ve achieved

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: including the the thing ahead rodematwebsite and
that tool that you have developed you want

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[bruno_caron]: to expand a little more about that
how how that that can help people don’t

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[bruno_caron]: necessarily uh

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[steve_vernon]: m

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[bruno_caron]: talk

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[bruno_caron]: about that topic like like you all
do on a daily basis

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[paul_tyler]: and one ad on question is there
any

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[steve_vernon]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: particular piece of research any book any
article steve you wrote that uh is actually

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[steve_vernon]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know giving fuel

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: to the to the tool we’re looking
at today

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[steve_vernon]: well uh thanks bruno for that and
and paul being an actual let me throw

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[steve_vernon]: out a statistic you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: know that

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[steve_vernon]: influences us as

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[steve_vernon]: in

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: our so it’s just for people to
know people age seventy five to seventy nine

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[steve_vernon]: about one and five

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[steve_vernon]: have some form of mild cognate empironment

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[bruno_caron]: yes

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[steve_vernon]: and that gets up to one and
two

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[bruno_caron]: ye

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[steve_vernon]: for people in their eighties it doesn’t
mean ere fully dimension outsimers

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[steve_vernon]: it just means there’s some kind of
mild empaironment and even without mild impairment you’re

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[steve_vernon]: getting into your later years you’re prone
to making mistakes it’s not necessarily fraud it

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[steve_vernon]: might be is making a mistake um
and so the risk

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: is real and

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: in the retirement business we’re all talking
about risks ramsey bruno and paul you know

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[steve_vernon]: you that’s a big issue

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: and so making mistakes and losing that
hard earned money that you’ve saved all your

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[steve_vernon]: life for

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[steve_vernon]: or being subject to fraud or exploitation
that’s a risk and so that’s what we

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[steve_vernon]: want to emphasize and marty has been
the leader of this project mary if you

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[steve_vernon]: want to talk about that website that
would be terrific

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: can i just interject

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[marti_deliema__phd]: yes

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[ramsey_d_smith]: with one quick thing first it should
be striking to

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: everybody listening to this that three leading
lights of the in this space when confronted

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[ramsey_d_smith]: with this with their own parents you
know find it difficult

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: because it’s really really

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: a hard

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[steve_vernon]: hm

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[ramsey_d_smith]: problem it’s really a hard problem for
everybody

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: and so we should you know we
should we should all be humbled by it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i guess

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: is my main

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[steve_vernon]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: point but any kay sorry

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00:10:22,502 –> 00:10:22,667
[steve_vernon]: oh

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00:10:22,688 –> 00:10:23,269
[ramsey_d_smith]: for interrupting

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[steve_vernon]: ah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: marty

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[bruno_caron]: h

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[ramsey_d_smith]: excited to hear what you’re

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[steve_vernon]: ye

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[ramsey_d_smith]: what

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re about to tell us

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[marti_deliema__phd]: so we did several pieces of research
to inform the thinking ahead road map and

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[marti_deliema__phd]: the steps that people need to engage

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[marti_deliema__phd]: in to be fully prepared and one
of them was focused groups we did focus

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[marti_deliema__phd]: groups with

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[marti_deliema__phd]: lower income older adults or middle income
and as well as kind of higher middle

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[marti_deliema__phd]: income we also did a focus group
with hispanic latino older adults and panic with

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[marti_deliema__phd]: black african i can older adults and
a lot of the findings we we

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[marti_deliema__phd]: got across those four focus groups

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[steve_vernon]: oh

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00:11:01,069 –> 00:11:08,804
[marti_deliema__phd]: are really similar one people just are
so resistant to believing that they might experience

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[marti_deliema__phd]: cognitive impairment they really you know some
people said i’d rather just drop dead before

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[steve_vernon]: ye

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[marti_deliema__phd]: i need any care but that’s just
not the reality how the world works

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[marti_deliema__phd]: many of us will age into our
late eighties and nineties i just want to

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[marti_deliema__phd]: say something to emphasize what steve said
it turns out that

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00:11:27,184 –> 00:11:27,205
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[marti_deliema__phd]: managing money and financial decision making

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[marti_deliema__phd]: is the first area

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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00:11:32,350 –> 00:11:38,162
[marti_deliema__phd]: of cognitive functioning to be impacted by
the aging process i’m not even talking about

289
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[marti_deliema__phd]: disease pathology and all comers and mild
cognitive comparement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:11:41,999 –> 00:11:42,519
[marti_deliema__phd]: majority

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00:11:42,332 –> 00:11:42,495
[steve_vernon]: ye

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[marti_deliema__phd]: of older adults who’ve reached

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:11:44,542 –> 00:11:50,659
[marti_deliema__phd]: late eighties and nineties are experiencing issues
with making sound financial decisions that’s why we

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00:11:50,584 –> 00:11:50,605
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

297
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[marti_deliema__phd]: need an advocate we need a family
member a friend or an attorney or financial

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00:11:55,044 –> 00:11:55,764
[marti_deliema__phd]: advisor someone

299
00:11:55,675 –> 00:11:55,695
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

300
00:11:55,804 –> 00:11:59,608
[marti_deliema__phd]: who we trust who has our best
interests at heart to help manage our money

301
00:12:00,539 –> 00:12:02,143
[marti_deliema__phd]: also did a two week long

302
00:12:02,072 –> 00:12:02,274
[steve_vernon]: oh

303
00:12:02,704 –> 00:12:03,747
[marti_deliema__phd]: online discussion

304
00:12:03,782 –> 00:12:04,862
[steve_vernon]: oh

305
00:12:03,867 –> 00:12:06,353
[marti_deliema__phd]: for him with around a hundred and
twenty older

306
00:12:06,290 –> 00:12:06,350
[paul_tyler]: so

307
00:12:06,393 –> 00:12:08,077
[marti_deliema__phd]: adults from all different backgrounds

308
00:12:08,245 –> 00:12:08,509
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

309
00:12:08,659 –> 00:12:09,220
[marti_deliema__phd]: and a lot of

310
00:12:09,182 –> 00:12:09,932
[steve_vernon]: oh

311
00:12:09,280 –> 00:12:09,360
[marti_deliema__phd]: the

312
00:12:09,404 –> 00:12:09,445
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

313
00:12:09,420 –> 00:12:11,303
[marti_deliema__phd]: same things heard a lot of horror
stories

314
00:12:11,263 –> 00:12:11,405
[steve_vernon]: yeah

315
00:12:11,684 –> 00:12:15,310
[marti_deliema__phd]: of families who didn’t name someone to
be their power of attorney and how that

316
00:12:15,410 –> 00:12:16,812
[marti_deliema__phd]: worked out for them as a family

317
00:12:17,199 –> 00:12:17,220
[paul_tyler]: m

318
00:12:17,293 –> 00:12:21,994
[marti_deliema__phd]: all the disagreements between adults siblings and
who’s taking over as a financial

319
00:12:21,843 –> 00:12:21,965
[steve_vernon]: yeah

320
00:12:22,075 –> 00:12:23,284
[marti_deliema__phd]: exploitation and fraud

321
00:12:23,282 –> 00:12:23,504
[steve_vernon]: yeah

322
00:12:24,309 –> 00:12:27,514
[marti_deliema__phd]: and ultimately they were like yeah we
need some guidance we need to know how

323
00:12:27,554 –> 00:12:29,377
[marti_deliema__phd]: to start these conversations with our family

324
00:12:29,221 –> 00:12:29,282
[steve_vernon]: ah

325
00:12:29,458 –> 00:12:34,626
[marti_deliema__phd]: members how to get into kind of
the nittygritty how to set up your financial

326
00:12:34,807 –> 00:12:39,115
[marti_deliema__phd]: inventory so that naomi and steve’s jobs
as they were saying taking over of their

327
00:12:39,155 –> 00:12:42,602
[marti_deliema__phd]: parents is easier because ultimately one of
the driving

328
00:12:42,510 –> 00:12:43,260
[paul_tyler]: yeah

329
00:12:42,812 –> 00:12:44,361
[steve_vernon]: ye

330
00:12:43,123 –> 00:12:46,763
[marti_deliema__phd]: reasons why older adults want to do
this work i don’t want to be a

331
00:12:46,823 –> 00:12:52,199
[marti_deliema__phd]: burden we essentially design this tool to
help other adults meet that goal you know

332
00:12:52,259 –> 00:12:55,868
[marti_deliema__phd]: making it easy giving their family members
a runway to take over for them

333
00:12:56,541 –> 00:12:56,921
[paul_tyler]: interesting

334
00:12:56,908 –> 00:12:56,989
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

335
00:12:56,941 –> 00:13:00,067
[paul_tyler]: yeah marty i think this is great
i think we’ve all done this i mean

336
00:13:00,087 –> 00:13:04,073
[paul_tyler]: my my mother had dementia for eight
years so naomi

337
00:13:05,239 –> 00:13:05,420
[naomi_karp]: yeah

338
00:13:05,355 –> 00:13:06,738
[paul_tyler]: i ampathized with where you

339
00:13:06,835 –> 00:13:06,855
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

340
00:13:06,858 –> 00:13:14,631
[paul_tyler]: are labels important for invest getting investors
for attracting people do you consider this to

341
00:13:14,691 –> 00:13:19,499
[paul_tyler]: be a technology solution or do you
look at s a solution to better spark

342
00:13:20,060 –> 00:13:23,168
[paul_tyler]: conversation s between people and trusted advisors

343
00:13:25,729 –> 00:13:30,477
[marti_deliema__phd]: more of a conversation starter tool and
a planning tool i think a lot of

344
00:13:30,517 –> 00:13:31,358
[marti_deliema__phd]: this can move into

345
00:13:31,292 –> 00:13:31,475
[steve_vernon]: oh

346
00:13:31,418 –> 00:13:36,787
[marti_deliema__phd]: the technology space i think a lot
of the decisions can be documented using technology

347
00:13:36,685 –> 00:13:37,525
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

348
00:13:37,228 –> 00:13:37,889
[marti_deliema__phd]: and a lot of the way

349
00:13:37,855 –> 00:13:38,157
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

350
00:13:37,969 –> 00:13:43,898
[marti_deliema__phd]: we store financial information and monitor someone’s
financial well being can be done through technology

351
00:13:44,999 –> 00:13:49,931
[marti_deliema__phd]: ultimately it comes down to people and
we really guide people in the thinking ahead

352
00:13:49,991 –> 00:13:54,081
[marti_deliema__phd]: road map and making the right choice
like don’t just pick child who is the

353
00:13:54,222 –> 00:13:58,713
[marti_deliema__phd]: oldest in the family don’t pick the
child who you think would feel left out

354
00:13:58,793 –> 00:14:02,139
[marti_deliema__phd]: if they weren’t chosen pick the person
who you think would do the best job

355
00:14:02,279 –> 00:14:03,241
[marti_deliema__phd]: at managing your money

356
00:14:03,118 –> 00:14:03,385
[bruno_caron]: yeah

357
00:14:03,621 –> 00:14:07,408
[marti_deliema__phd]: someone who manages their own money well
someone who will always put your interest first

358
00:14:08,089 –> 00:14:13,284
[marti_deliema__phd]: so i think there’s a huge human
element in this that we can’t solve with

359
00:14:13,404 –> 00:14:14,307
[marti_deliema__phd]: just technology

360
00:14:14,851 –> 00:14:15,815
[naomi_karp]: can i can i jump

361
00:14:15,735 –> 00:14:17,225
[bruno_caron]: and like a

362
00:14:18,159 –> 00:14:18,179
[naomi_karp]: i

363
00:14:18,218 –> 00:14:18,439
[bruno_caron]: please

364
00:14:18,239 –> 00:14:18,359
[naomi_karp]: was

365
00:14:18,540 –> 00:14:18,902
[bruno_caron]: please please

366
00:14:18,800 –> 00:14:23,708
[naomi_karp]: i was just going to jump in
and add um those converse those decisions and

367
00:14:23,768 –> 00:14:24,830
[naomi_karp]: those conversations

368
00:14:24,962 –> 00:14:25,127
[steve_vernon]: ye

369
00:14:24,990 –> 00:14:31,020
[naomi_karp]: to get someone on board as your
financial advocate those are really important but part

370
00:14:31,080 –> 00:14:31,862
[naomi_karp]: of it also

371
00:14:31,833 –> 00:14:31,997
[steve_vernon]: yeah

372
00:14:32,122 –> 00:14:38,232
[naomi_karp]: is to help people communicate their preferences
and values so we help guide people into

373
00:14:38,312 –> 00:14:46,045
[naomi_karp]: additional conversations and we even have on
the tool we have a little quiz people

374
00:14:46,145 –> 00:14:50,713
[naomi_karp]: can take to help them sort of
come up with answers about you know what

375
00:14:50,773 –> 00:14:54,319
[naomi_karp]: is their philosophy about how they want
to if in the

376
00:14:54,293 –> 00:14:54,494
[steve_vernon]: yeah

377
00:14:54,379 –> 00:14:58,787
[naomi_karp]: future and how they want their money
used what are their priorities you know do

378
00:14:58,847 –> 00:15:02,312
[naomi_karp]: they want to preserve all the money
to leave it for their airs or do

379
00:15:02,373 –> 00:15:05,638
[naomi_karp]: they want to make themselves more comfortable
do they want to give gifts to the

380
00:15:05,678 –> 00:15:09,605
[naomi_karp]: grant oldrin even when they can’t do
it themselves and that sort of thing so

381
00:15:09,685 –> 00:15:12,509
[naomi_karp]: we raise a lot of provocative questions
and help people

382
00:15:12,722 –> 00:15:12,922
[steve_vernon]: oh

383
00:15:13,030 –> 00:15:14,352
[naomi_karp]: convey that information

384
00:15:13,966 –> 00:15:14,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

385
00:15:14,473 –> 00:15:17,558
[naomi_karp]: to others the other thing is that
we do also want

386
00:15:17,519 –> 00:15:17,601
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

387
00:15:17,618 –> 00:15:19,902
[naomi_karp]: to infer there’s a legal aspect to
this

388
00:15:20,372 –> 00:15:20,674
[steve_vernon]: oh

389
00:15:20,463 –> 00:15:23,488
[naomi_karp]: if you don’t give that person legal
authority they

390
00:15:23,522 –> 00:15:23,765
[steve_vernon]: oh

391
00:15:23,548 –> 00:15:27,554
[naomi_karp]: won’t be able to do your banking
they won’t be able to handle your investments

392
00:15:27,655 –> 00:15:31,381
[naomi_karp]: they won’t be able to manage your
debts they won’t be able to open new

393
00:15:31,461 –> 00:15:35,568
[naomi_karp]: accounts and won’t be able to manage
your real estate and all of that so

394
00:15:36,189 –> 00:15:37,431
[naomi_karp]: you know unfortunately

395
00:15:36,715 –> 00:15:37,504
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

396
00:15:37,571 –> 00:15:42,199
[naomi_karp]: people don’t necessarily want to go to
lawyers or see it as expensive but we

397
00:15:42,279 –> 00:15:45,083
[naomi_karp]: do think they need a little bit
of legal help to put the right

398
00:15:44,995 –> 00:15:45,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

399
00:15:45,663 –> 00:15:48,748
[naomi_karp]: documents in place which can be pretty
simple actually

400
00:15:50,868 –> 00:15:55,115
[bruno_caron]: and do you have any any tips
and tricks on like easy things that that

401
00:15:55,215 –> 00:15:58,821
[bruno_caron]: can be done like you know a
pension check or an annuity

402
00:15:58,862 –> 00:15:59,002
[steve_vernon]: ye

403
00:15:58,902 –> 00:16:04,391
[bruno_caron]: check you know getting directly the positive
somewhere else where you know you

404
00:16:04,315 –> 00:16:05,785
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

405
00:16:04,451 –> 00:16:07,676
[bruno_caron]: can cut some of those those teps
that could you know

406
00:16:07,744 –> 00:16:07,765
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

407
00:16:07,857 –> 00:16:14,187
[bruno_caron]: potentially ease the process and that that
actual burton or anything else for that matter

408
00:16:14,428 –> 00:16:14,750
[bruno_caron]: yeah

409
00:16:15,352 –> 00:16:15,553
[steve_vernon]: well

410
00:16:15,930 –> 00:16:16,214
[paul_tyler]: yeah

411
00:16:16,013 –> 00:16:18,057
[steve_vernon]: and now yes those those

412
00:16:17,910 –> 00:16:18,437
[paul_tyler]: ye

413
00:16:18,097 –> 00:16:22,144
[steve_vernon]: are good ideas and we have some
tips on the website for that about how

414
00:16:22,224 –> 00:16:22,304
[steve_vernon]: to

415
00:16:22,530 –> 00:16:23,220
[paul_tyler]: oh

416
00:16:22,584 –> 00:16:25,389
[steve_vernon]: set up your money and your sources
of retirement income

417
00:16:25,264 –> 00:16:25,285
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

418
00:16:26,090 –> 00:16:30,381
[steve_vernon]: to have more pre action um so
that’s a good idea but there’s a lot

419
00:16:30,501 –> 00:16:36,415
[steve_vernon]: more to it than that and so
we are covering that uh and hopefully and

420
00:16:36,776 –> 00:16:38,059
[steve_vernon]: paul to answer your question

421
00:16:37,890 –> 00:16:38,670
[paul_tyler]: yeah

422
00:16:38,159 –> 00:16:43,830
[steve_vernon]: to technology is enaenabler but the heart
of this is people helping people

423
00:16:43,932 –> 00:16:44,610
[paul_tyler]: okay

424
00:16:44,672 –> 00:16:49,700
[steve_vernon]: and nowadays for example if your financial
advocate is living far away they

425
00:16:49,624 –> 00:16:49,645
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

426
00:16:49,760 –> 00:16:52,284
[steve_vernon]: can still do a lot of help
remotely

427
00:16:52,140 –> 00:16:52,950
[paul_tyler]: oh

428
00:16:53,186 –> 00:16:56,974
[steve_vernon]: um so it’s an en abler but
we really have to have helping

429
00:16:56,764 –> 00:16:56,785
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

430
00:16:57,055 –> 00:16:57,859
[steve_vernon]: people on this one

431
00:16:58,910 –> 00:17:00,813
[paul_tyler]: yeah well just to follow stephen

432
00:17:00,664 –> 00:17:00,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

433
00:17:01,254 –> 00:17:05,501
[paul_tyler]: and marty and this this is really
an international problem it’s not just here in

434
00:17:05,541 –> 00:17:11,270
[paul_tyler]: the u s we had another really
interesting conversation with dr eros bell and

435
00:17:11,762 –> 00:17:13,172
[steve_vernon]: yeah

436
00:17:11,851 –> 00:17:16,800
[paul_tyler]: in israel i’m not sure if you
know where i’ve met her uhreligiy discussion round

437
00:17:16,840 –> 00:17:16,980
[paul_tyler]: world

438
00:17:16,924 –> 00:17:16,945
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

439
00:17:17,000 –> 00:17:20,786
[paul_tyler]: do you call it age tech are
you call it long jevatech

440
00:17:20,797 –> 00:17:22,708
[bruno_caron]: m yeah

441
00:17:21,728 –> 00:17:22,749
[paul_tyler]: you know which is the broad

442
00:17:22,504 –> 00:17:22,525
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

443
00:17:23,150 –> 00:17:24,131
[paul_tyler]: label if we had to

444
00:17:24,439 –> 00:17:24,662
[naomi_karp]: yeah

445
00:17:24,772 –> 00:17:26,193
[paul_tyler]: put a label put you put your

446
00:17:26,185 –> 00:17:26,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

447
00:17:26,433 –> 00:17:29,797
[paul_tyler]: site in a in a box what
would you call this what it’s part of

448
00:17:29,917 –> 00:17:30,057
[paul_tyler]: what

449
00:17:30,057 –> 00:17:30,219
[ramsey_d_smith]: say

450
00:17:30,177 –> 00:17:30,518
[paul_tyler]: movement

451
00:17:31,832 –> 00:17:31,852
[steve_vernon]: m

452
00:17:32,794 –> 00:17:32,815
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:17:33,139 –> 00:17:33,159
[marti_deliema__phd]: m

454
00:17:33,694 –> 00:17:33,715
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

455
00:17:37,859 –> 00:17:38,140
[marti_deliema__phd]: well i

456
00:17:38,222 –> 00:17:38,504
[steve_vernon]: oh

457
00:17:38,240 –> 00:17:41,731
[marti_deliema__phd]: do think that aging and longevity can
be flip sides of the same coin

458
00:17:41,815 –> 00:17:42,177
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

459
00:17:41,972 –> 00:17:45,140
[marti_deliema__phd]: there there you know terms that we
often

460
00:17:45,145 –> 00:17:45,165
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

461
00:17:45,200 –> 00:17:48,764
[marti_deliema__phd]: throw around we oftentimes you don’t want
to age but we do want to achieve

462
00:17:48,824 –> 00:17:49,404
[marti_deliema__phd]: longevity

463
00:17:49,110 –> 00:17:49,412
[paul_tyler]: oh

464
00:17:49,408 –> 00:17:49,509
[bruno_caron]: it’s

465
00:17:49,555 –> 00:17:50,103
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

466
00:17:50,125 –> 00:17:51,006
[marti_deliema__phd]: so so

467
00:17:50,907 –> 00:17:50,927
[steve_vernon]: i

468
00:17:51,066 –> 00:17:51,346
[marti_deliema__phd]: it’s kind

469
00:17:51,355 –> 00:17:51,657
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

470
00:17:51,386 –> 00:17:52,247
[marti_deliema__phd]: of a euphemism for

471
00:17:52,200 –> 00:17:53,400
[paul_tyler]: oh

472
00:17:52,367 –> 00:17:57,267
[marti_deliema__phd]: aging i think this fits you know
pretty squarely in

473
00:17:57,519 –> 00:17:57,540
[paul_tyler]: m

474
00:17:57,688 –> 00:18:00,293
[marti_deliema__phd]: the you know planning space

475
00:18:00,420 –> 00:18:00,602
[paul_tyler]: ye

476
00:18:01,135 –> 00:18:05,532
[marti_deliema__phd]: i think it needs to fit along
with many types of retirement planning and income

477
00:18:05,572 –> 00:18:11,638
[marti_deliema__phd]: strategy planning tools that people might consider
and use as they enter into older age

478
00:18:12,809 –> 00:18:13,290
[marti_deliema__phd]: are gaining

479
00:18:13,045 –> 00:18:13,267
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

480
00:18:13,052 –> 00:18:13,072
[steve_vernon]: m

481
00:18:13,350 –> 00:18:13,930
[marti_deliema__phd]: longevity

482
00:18:14,640 –> 00:18:15,510
[paul_tyler]: yeah

483
00:18:14,792 –> 00:18:14,972
[marti_deliema__phd]: um

484
00:18:15,025 –> 00:18:15,371
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

485
00:18:15,392 –> 00:18:19,218
[marti_deliema__phd]: but at the same time this is
really about

486
00:18:19,539 –> 00:18:19,560
[paul_tyler]: m

487
00:18:20,969 –> 00:18:25,596
[marti_deliema__phd]: planning and families it is not just
this is not you know a tool for

488
00:18:25,696 –> 00:18:31,067
[marti_deliema__phd]: just monitoring using machine learning to monitor
assets to make sure there’s no fraud and

489
00:18:31,127 –> 00:18:36,520
[marti_deliema__phd]: abuse certainly a conversation that families can
have to implement those tools to help them

490
00:18:36,620 –> 00:18:39,347
[marti_deliema__phd]: do their job as a p or
a financial advocate

491
00:18:39,505 –> 00:18:39,869
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

492
00:18:40,129 –> 00:18:44,255
[marti_deliema__phd]: but you know some one needs to
understand your values like nam

493
00:18:44,374 –> 00:18:44,395
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

494
00:18:44,476 –> 00:18:48,304
[marti_deliema__phd]: saying in your financial goals the algorithm
is not going to figure

495
00:18:48,152 –> 00:18:48,172
[steve_vernon]: m

496
00:18:48,344 –> 00:18:51,855
[marti_deliema__phd]: that out for you you need to
have a conversation with someone who is going

497
00:18:51,895 –> 00:18:52,697
[marti_deliema__phd]: to be your advocate

498
00:18:53,393 –> 00:18:53,853
[steve_vernon]: say paul

499
00:18:54,073 –> 00:18:54,174
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

500
00:18:54,615 –> 00:18:54,715
[steve_vernon]: to

501
00:18:55,165 –> 00:18:56,455
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

502
00:18:55,676 –> 00:18:59,803
[steve_vernon]: follow on to that let me put
it in terms that is circulating in the

503
00:18:59,843 –> 00:19:06,034
[steve_vernon]: financial industry lately is longevity risk and
there’s a lot of focus on longevity risk

504
00:19:06,154 –> 00:19:10,040
[steve_vernon]: and there’s a narrow focus which is
on outliving your money and that’s you know

505
00:19:10,080 –> 00:19:14,328
[steve_vernon]: buying annuities and soul security all that
but i think it’s a broad risk if

506
00:19:14,368 –> 00:19:19,175
[steve_vernon]: you take a broad view of longevity
risk it anything that can go wrong with

507
00:19:19,295 –> 00:19:22,800
[steve_vernon]: living a long time and when you
think about that as longevity

508
00:19:22,435 –> 00:19:22,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

509
00:19:22,770 –> 00:19:23,550
[paul_tyler]: yeah

510
00:19:22,880 –> 00:19:23,100
[steve_vernon]: risk

511
00:19:23,550 –> 00:19:23,710
[paul_tyler]: yah

512
00:19:23,992 –> 00:19:25,515
[steve_vernon]: this is right in there

513
00:19:25,779 –> 00:19:25,800
[paul_tyler]: h

514
00:19:25,816 –> 00:19:25,936
[steve_vernon]: so

515
00:19:26,019 –> 00:19:26,101
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

516
00:19:26,698 –> 00:19:27,601
[steve_vernon]: if you want to put a label

517
00:19:27,715 –> 00:19:28,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:19:27,721 –> 00:19:27,921
[steve_vernon]: on it

519
00:19:27,871 –> 00:19:27,952
[paul_tyler]: to

520
00:19:28,403 –> 00:19:31,230
[steve_vernon]: it’s just one very important aspect of
longevity risk

521
00:19:32,044 –> 00:19:39,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: m so how are you thinking about
you know getting this tool in front of

522
00:19:39,075 –> 00:19:43,843
[ramsey_d_smith]: people so i know you were your
research was supported by a r p and

523
00:19:44,023 –> 00:19:45,345
[ramsey_d_smith]: a society of suaries

524
00:19:46,357 –> 00:19:46,378
[bruno_caron]: m

525
00:19:46,387 –> 00:19:51,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: are are they also part of your
sort of call it your guess your distribution

526
00:19:51,716 –> 00:19:55,021
[ramsey_d_smith]: process how are you going about your
going on podcasts

527
00:19:55,112 –> 00:19:55,434
[steve_vernon]: oh

528
00:19:56,264 –> 00:19:56,324
[ramsey_d_smith]: as

529
00:19:56,389 –> 00:19:56,590
[naomi_karp]: my

530
00:19:56,424 –> 00:20:00,751
[ramsey_d_smith]: well but how are you thinking about
getting this valuable tool in front of as

531
00:20:00,812 –> 00:20:01,833
[ramsey_d_smith]: many people as possible

532
00:20:03,649 –> 00:20:04,730
[marti_deliema__phd]: that’s a great question

533
00:20:04,345 –> 00:20:05,005
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

534
00:20:04,851 –> 00:20:08,657
[marti_deliema__phd]: and something that we’re working on now
we are you

535
00:20:08,700 –> 00:20:09,390
[paul_tyler]: yeah

536
00:20:08,717 –> 00:20:14,006
[marti_deliema__phd]: know seeking sponsorships in order to disseminate
it more broadly one thing that we developed

537
00:20:14,035 –> 00:20:14,477
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

538
00:20:14,106 –> 00:20:16,611
[marti_deliema__phd]: recently is series of

539
00:20:16,646 –> 00:20:16,747
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

540
00:20:16,772 –> 00:20:18,937
[marti_deliema__phd]: materials for presenters

541
00:20:19,255 –> 00:20:19,501
[ramsey_d_smith]: yea

542
00:20:19,869 –> 00:20:25,178
[marti_deliema__phd]: individuals who might work at work at
a senior center or members of a religious

543
00:20:25,258 –> 00:20:31,348
[marti_deliema__phd]: congregation can actually teach the thinking ahead
road map to their members so we have

544
00:20:31,709 –> 00:20:33,131
[marti_deliema__phd]: representations there

545
00:20:33,115 –> 00:20:33,135
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

546
00:20:33,231 –> 00:20:37,438
[marti_deliema__phd]: we have work sheets that the participants
can fill out and we both have a

547
00:20:37,599 –> 00:20:40,664
[marti_deliema__phd]: one hour version and a three hour
half day workshop version

548
00:20:41,158 –> 00:20:42,688
[bruno_caron]: oh

549
00:20:41,485 –> 00:20:43,228
[marti_deliema__phd]: to try to train the trainer

550
00:20:43,294 –> 00:20:43,315
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

551
00:20:43,629 –> 00:20:45,257
[marti_deliema__phd]: disseminate this to their communities

552
00:20:45,909 –> 00:20:47,190
[naomi_karp]: and just to add to that

553
00:20:47,507 –> 00:20:47,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

554
00:20:48,252 –> 00:20:48,412
[naomi_karp]: which

555
00:20:48,454 –> 00:20:48,475
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

556
00:20:48,552 –> 00:20:49,012
[naomi_karp]: i’m really

557
00:20:48,955 –> 00:20:49,885
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:20:49,113 –> 00:20:53,677
[naomi_karp]: hoping is going to help get this
out there because you know you build it

559
00:20:53,757 –> 00:21:02,366
[naomi_karp]: but then have to come so know
it also goes beyond those senior centers and

560
00:21:02,426 –> 00:21:05,250
[naomi_karp]: those um you know faith communities

561
00:21:05,875 –> 00:21:06,463
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

562
00:21:05,911 –> 00:21:14,386
[naomi_karp]: it can be for employers employee assistant
plant and give these um it can banks

563
00:21:14,546 –> 00:21:20,736
[naomi_karp]: and brokers that have you know especially
banks that have brick and mortar spaces

564
00:21:20,335 –> 00:21:20,497
[steve_vernon]: by

565
00:21:20,916 –> 00:21:26,486
[naomi_karp]: where they actually present programs for all
the adults can deliver it elder law attorneys

566
00:21:26,626 –> 00:21:27,588
[naomi_karp]: can facilitate

567
00:21:27,625 –> 00:21:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

568
00:21:27,748 –> 00:21:29,851
[naomi_karp]: these kinds of programs in their community

569
00:21:29,548 –> 00:21:29,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

570
00:21:30,052 –> 00:21:32,636
[naomi_karp]: so there are just so many potential

571
00:21:33,214 –> 00:21:33,235
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

572
00:21:33,457 –> 00:21:36,147
[naomi_karp]: intermediate who can bring this program out

573
00:21:36,154 –> 00:21:36,175
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

574
00:21:36,228 –> 00:21:37,674
[naomi_karp]: to the people who really need it

575
00:21:39,805 –> 00:21:40,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

576
00:21:41,000 –> 00:21:44,005
[bruno_caron]: so through all this i know you’ve
spoken a lot

577
00:21:44,102 –> 00:21:45,812
[steve_vernon]: oh

578
00:21:44,105 –> 00:21:53,341
[bruno_caron]: to to regulators various various different different
branches how how are they how are

579
00:21:53,490 –> 00:21:53,654
[paul_tyler]: ye

580
00:21:53,962 –> 00:22:00,693
[bruno_caron]: how receptive are they to to the
message how quote quote easy is

581
00:22:00,729 –> 00:22:00,749
[steve_vernon]: i

582
00:22:00,773 –> 00:22:07,705
[bruno_caron]: it to you know convey that message
and and try to try to implement either

583
00:22:08,486 –> 00:22:12,433
[bruno_caron]: either programs or policies how is that

584
00:22:12,424 –> 00:22:12,587
[steve_vernon]: yeah

585
00:22:12,553 –> 00:22:15,987
[bruno_caron]: avenue going right now oh

586
00:22:17,511 –> 00:22:18,032
[naomi_karp]: well if i can

587
00:22:18,001 –> 00:22:18,101
[paul_tyler]: men

588
00:22:18,092 –> 00:22:18,272
[naomi_karp]: just

589
00:22:18,141 –> 00:22:18,362
[paul_tyler]: maybe

590
00:22:18,492 –> 00:22:18,673
[naomi_karp]: just

591
00:22:18,804 –> 00:22:18,945
[paul_tyler]: yeah

592
00:22:19,374 –> 00:22:22,880
[naomi_karp]: yeah i was just i’m in washington
d c and having

593
00:22:23,925 –> 00:22:24,088
[steve_vernon]: okay

594
00:22:24,422 –> 00:22:24,603
[naomi_karp]: been

595
00:22:24,475 –> 00:22:25,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

596
00:22:24,480 –> 00:22:25,440
[paul_tyler]: oh

597
00:22:24,663 –> 00:22:27,788
[naomi_karp]: a former fed at a federal financial

598
00:22:27,600 –> 00:22:28,290
[paul_tyler]: oh

599
00:22:27,848 –> 00:22:30,072
[naomi_karp]: break tory agency i think there

600
00:22:30,030 –> 00:22:30,750
[paul_tyler]: yeah

601
00:22:30,272 –> 00:22:35,320
[naomi_karp]: is a lot of concern in a
number of agencies about the number of people

602
00:22:35,361 –> 00:22:40,709
[naomi_karp]: who are being financially exploited and scamed
and there’s also a lot of learn about

603
00:22:40,730 –> 00:22:45,878
[naomi_karp]: the fact that people are just living
so long and their health care and financial

604
00:22:46,159 –> 00:22:51,407
[naomi_karp]: needs are really increasing when they get
up into the eighties nineties and then even

605
00:22:51,487 –> 00:22:55,694
[naomi_karp]: all the cent arians we have now
um so i think there’s a lot of

606
00:22:55,815 –> 00:22:58,559
[naomi_karp]: receptivity to this kind of thing i

607
00:22:58,562 –> 00:22:58,846
[steve_vernon]: oh

608
00:22:58,699 –> 00:23:03,467
[naomi_karp]: don’t think that it in any way
runs a fowl of any concerns of any

609
00:23:03,608 –> 00:23:04,429
[naomi_karp]: regulator that

610
00:23:04,382 –> 00:23:05,012
[steve_vernon]: yeah

611
00:23:04,489 –> 00:23:09,918
[naomi_karp]: i’ve seen um when i was at
the consumer financial protection bureau we were also

612
00:23:10,058 –> 00:23:14,205
[naomi_karp]: thinking along these lines and we were
thinking about how do we help those people

613
00:23:14,786 –> 00:23:19,474
[naomi_karp]: who manage someone else’s money when the
person can’t do it themselves and we actually

614
00:23:19,554 –> 00:23:23,921
[naomi_karp]: had put out a set of guides
called managing someone else’s money and it was

615
00:23:24,022 –> 00:23:29,351
[naomi_karp]: just to help those people understand their
fiduciary duties and the practical things they have

616
00:23:29,411 –> 00:23:33,698
[naomi_karp]: to do so i think there’s a
great fit between the thinking ahead road map

617
00:23:34,118 –> 00:23:39,327
[naomi_karp]: that helps people get up to that
point of doing the planning and having that

618
00:23:40,309 –> 00:23:45,043
[naomi_karp]: sherry or that advocate who’s going to
step into their shoes and then making sure

619
00:23:45,104 –> 00:23:51,216
[naomi_karp]: that once they do do it right
and that people are protected you know through

620
00:23:51,256 –> 00:23:52,259
[naomi_karp]: the rest of their lives

621
00:23:53,142 –> 00:23:53,202
[paul_tyler]: he

622
00:23:53,222 –> 00:23:53,242
[naomi_karp]: i

623
00:23:53,283 –> 00:23:53,504
[paul_tyler]: wasn’t

624
00:23:53,302 –> 00:23:53,723
[naomi_karp]: think there’s

625
00:23:53,545 –> 00:23:53,706
[paul_tyler]: weep

626
00:23:53,783 –> 00:23:54,866
[naomi_karp]: a good energy there

627
00:23:55,138 –> 00:23:55,485
[bruno_caron]: yeah

628
00:23:55,490 –> 00:23:58,756
[paul_tyler]: totally totally agree and we will do
our part we will put the link in

629
00:23:58,856 –> 00:23:59,357
[paul_tyler]: show notes

630
00:23:59,532 –> 00:23:59,795
[bruno_caron]: no no

631
00:23:59,858 –> 00:23:59,878
[paul_tyler]: i

632
00:23:59,897 –> 00:23:59,978
[bruno_caron]: no

633
00:23:59,938 –> 00:24:02,442
[paul_tyler]: know we’re right at the end of
our time ramsey

634
00:24:02,398 –> 00:24:02,680
[bruno_caron]: oh

635
00:24:04,085 –> 00:24:04,646
[paul_tyler]: what do you think

636
00:24:06,477 –> 00:24:12,688
[ramsey_d_smith]: i’ve always said that i think that
that the challenge of retirement is part financial

637
00:24:13,249 –> 00:24:17,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: maybe twenty five or thirty per cent
and then the other vast majority of it

638
00:24:17,976 –> 00:24:20,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: really comes down to behavioral issues um

639
00:24:20,612 –> 00:24:20,855
[steve_vernon]: yes

640
00:24:21,983 –> 00:24:26,991
[ramsey_d_smith]: personal challenges trust all those sorts of
things and so tools that actually take a

641
00:24:27,052 –> 00:24:32,260
[ramsey_d_smith]: wholistic approach to addressing those issues addressing
the broader issue i think are super important

642
00:24:32,401 –> 00:24:36,828
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for that and marty
i’m just i’m just fascinated by this this

643
00:24:36,948 –> 00:24:40,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: this idea that just came out of
you know your experience in the enforcement space

644
00:24:40,740 –> 00:24:41,123
[paul_tyler]: uh

645
00:24:41,195 –> 00:24:41,495
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh and

646
00:24:41,469 –> 00:24:41,509
[bruno_caron]: m

647
00:24:41,555 –> 00:24:42,697
[ramsey_d_smith]: brought you to this direction so

648
00:24:42,779 –> 00:24:42,840
[paul_tyler]: ah

649
00:24:43,158 –> 00:24:44,039
[ramsey_d_smith]: you know you saw

650
00:24:44,047 –> 00:24:44,068
[bruno_caron]: h

651
00:24:44,079 –> 00:24:47,303
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very clear pain point and you
created a tool to fix it so thank

652
00:24:47,240 –> 00:24:47,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

653
00:24:47,343 –> 00:24:47,723
[ramsey_d_smith]: you for that

654
00:24:48,141 –> 00:24:52,929
[paul_tyler]: yeah hey listen thank you marty naomi
steve great to have you steve thanks for

655
00:24:52,989 –> 00:24:54,452
[paul_tyler]: coming back we didn’t scare away

656
00:24:54,572 –> 00:24:54,978
[steve_vernon]: my

657
00:24:54,772 –> 00:24:55,874
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll

658
00:24:55,774 –> 00:24:55,795
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

659
00:24:55,858 –> 00:24:55,879
[naomi_karp]: m

660
00:24:55,914 –> 00:24:57,537
[paul_tyler]: put the links to your program will

661
00:24:58,232 –> 00:24:58,453
[steve_vernon]: oh

662
00:24:58,518 –> 00:25:00,882
[paul_tyler]: promote this as much as we can
and love to have you back

663
00:25:01,114 –> 00:25:01,135
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

664
00:25:01,283 –> 00:25:06,411
[paul_tyler]: in maybe a couple of months and
see how it’s how the tools progressing how

665
00:25:06,612 –> 00:25:12,823
[paul_tyler]: how well it’s where and where it’s
being received so thank you so much bruno

666
00:25:12,903 –> 00:25:16,952
[paul_tyler]: ramsey thanks and for all the listeners
join us again next week the same time

667
00:25:17,513 –> 00:25:19,838
[paul_tyler]: for that annuity show thanks

668
00:25:21,699 –> 00:25:22,026
[naomi_karp]: thank you

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 175: Thinking Ahead Of Older Age with Marti DeLiema, Naomi Karp, and Steve Vernon
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Year in Review – 2022

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In 2022, That Annuity Show had 40+ guests and 20,000+ downloads from 60 different countries. Thank you to our sponsor, The Index Standard!

Downloads by Episode

  1. Episode 136: Tackling Unconscious Bias with Martin Powell and Gina Riepel (610)
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  3. Episode 132: Framing Retirement Planning Questions the Right Way with Jason Fichtner (412)
  4. Episode 155: The Social Security Sky Isn’t Falling with Kerry Pechter (411)
  5. Episode 131: Don’t Forget About Hidden Home Values When Planning for Retirement with Don Graves (405)

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  1. Martin Powell (951)
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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherYear in Review – 2022
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Episode 174: Gas Prices, Inflation, Interest Rates and Digital Currency with David Czerniecki

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Today, we catch up David Czerniecki, Chief Investment Officer for Nassau and get his perspective on the economy. We continue our discussion from last quarter about inflation, interest rates, market volatility, and the supply chain. In addition, we discuss of the current state of the digital currency market.

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Speaker 1:Today we catch up with David Zicki, chief Investment Officer for Nassau, and get his perspective on the economy. We continue our discussion from last quarter about inflation, interest rates, market volatility, and the supply chain. In addition, we discuss what we can learn from the collapse of digital currencies.

Speaker 1:We also wanna thank our primary sponsor and my employer [00:00:30] by day, NASA Financial Group. We are working harder to be your care of choice. We support you with best-in-class service. We seek to think things simple, and we will have your back in the years to come. We’re headquartered in Hartford, Connecticut with 19 billion in assets under management, and serve over 400,000 policy holders. We’ve been doing this a long time, 170 years, but we remain humble enough to always try to improve. Also, do you wanna get regular updates on news [00:01:00] about guests of our show? Go to that annuity show.com and subscribe to our newsletter. We hope you enjoy the show.

Speaker 2:Welcome to that annuity show, the podcast that will make you an expert in explaining annuities to your clients. Give us 30 minutes each week and we’ll shave hours from your client presentations. [00:01:30] Now, here’s your host, Paul Tyler.

Speaker 1:So David, welcome back and, uh, just for, for people who, who haven’t, uh, heard you before, can you tell people who are you and, uh, what do you do?

Speaker 3:Yep. Uh, Paul, good to, good to be back. Uh, thanks for having me. Um, I am the Chief Investment Officer of nasa. I manage the, I’m responsible for the management of the portfolios, for all of the insurance companies and all of our products and, and our newinand, and and [00:02:00] policy holders.

Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, thank you for joining us today. Appreciate the time and, uh, I guess we are living in some very interesting times. Uh,

Speaker 3:We are indeed

Speaker 1:<laugh>. So I’ve gotta have to follow up on some things we asked, uh, about earlier. And, uh, let, let me start with what’s probably closest to all of us, and that’s gasoline and good news. AR is, gas prices seem to have dropped. I drove up here and I saw gas prices are much lower [00:02:30] along the merit today. Now is this a, is this a good thing or is this a bad thing for the economy?

Speaker 3:Right. Um, I think we have improved in that, in that basis. You know, obviously prices at the pomp are lower. Um, it’s tough to say that we are sort of gonna stay here. Um, there are definitely economic growth implications that are playing through in gas prices. I think you’ve had a number of things play in. You’ve obviously had pretty significant releases from this, uh, strategic p petroleum reserve, [00:03:00] which has affected the market, you know, and that’s an anomaly and it can’t last. So that’s something at some point goes away. That’s thing one. I think think true. You’ve seen some changes in the way opexplaying the market a little bit right now. So that’s thing two. But I do think a factor is the anticipa an actual slowing of the economy in an anticipation of further slowdowns, um, particularly from some of your big manufacturing companies. So the, you know, obviously the war, you know, the deplorable war in, in Russia, Ukraine is still going on, so that’s still affecting [00:03:30] supplies. Um, you’re still gonna have a fairly hefty drain, um, as the colder months settlement in Europe. And, and Europe is not well positioned for this. So that’s gonna put some strain on the system. So unfortunately, I don’t think it’s all good news.

Speaker 1:Oh, no,

Speaker 3:<laugh>.

Speaker 1:Well, you mentioned jobs. Um, mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, layoffs in the tech sector made enormous headlines this summer. They, they, they continue to do it. Uh, there have been some layoffs, I know in some manufacturing, uh, [00:04:00] related sec, uh, companies and sectors like you’ve managed to, you’ve mentioned even here, uh, in, in the, in the, uh, new England region. Uh, but job reports are still good. Still see, see good numbers, good, good reports coming out of, uh, you know, some of the, the, uh, governmental units track this stuff. Um, are we at the tail end of something or does it mean that maybe the downturn’s not gonna be as bad, or am I just, uh, guilty of some wishful thinking here?

Speaker 3:[00:04:30] I think that it’s, it’s very early to make a call here. Uh, I certainly don’t think we’re at the height of unemployment. Um, the job market does remain fairly robust in part that’s because of, um, sort of, we still have labor shortages and, and that’s more of a, a, a demographic and long term thing. You know, we are, we’ve had less immigration for quite some time, um, and we’ve had, um, significant return to work in the 24 [00:05:00] to 54 year old age bracket. But in the 55 plus age bracket, you know, we had the great, you know, the great early retirement thing, which has been pretty sticky. So this, this, I’ll talk a little bit more about jobs, but this also gets back to the, what we talked about last time in inflation, there’s still a lot of pressure there and wage inflation goes away very slowly.

Speaker 3:The bottom line, Paul, is, is historically for the fed to sort of break the back of wage inflation, you’re probably looking at quite a bit higher level of unemployment than [00:05:30] you see today. Remember today we’re, you know, sub four in the threes. That’s probably more consistent with the five. So that’s a lot of jobs. Um, and that’s whether or not we hit that level, I don’t know, but I think we’re more likely to go in that direction than where we are. Interestingly, some of what we’ve seen thus far, and you’ve picked up on this in looking at the actual employment numbers versus the news releases, you’re seeing tech sector layoffs, but there’s a couple things that are happening. One is they’re eliminating [00:06:00] positions that didn’t, they hadn’t filled yet. They were on the drawing board, if you will. They were in the budget. So they’ve gotten rid of that. It’s not helpful from a jobs perspective, but, you know, they weren’t positioned. You’ve seen some big companies make some layoffs and you know, Amazon has announced a number of layoffs. Amazon employs a million, you know, a million and a half people, 10,000 jobs. I I, obviously, I feel badly if I’m one of those 10,000 people, but that’s not a big number, you know, relatively speaking. So, um, but you are seeing a little bit of right-sizing going [00:06:30] on there.

Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks. Now, we, we also talked about supply chain, uh, issues. Yep. Uh, you haven’t, <laugh> haven’t given, given us a, a lot of hope that this, the supply chain issues would, would go away. Uh, we saw a lot more disruption in China over the last, uh, six or seven months. And good news is it looks like China has relaxed some of their covid restrictions. Is this gonna help us with some of the supply chain issues? And if it is, how long will it take [00:07:00] for us to see this happen?

Speaker 3:Yeah. Um, I, I think the short answer is we’ve seen a significant amount of improvement here. Um, there are a number of factors that have played into it. China is a major part of that. We’ll touch on that in a second. Some of the supply issues that we faced last year were other structural bottlenecks. If you recall, the images of all the ships lined up, you know, outside the port of, um, uh, San Diego. Well, that’s, stuff is all cleared up. So the system’s working [00:07:30] betters thing one, uh, thing two is that, um, we believe that China has found ways around some of the export and tariff restrictions. So w the US is still getting a lot of goods from China. They’re just coming from someplace else. So they’re manufactured there, they go somewhere, then they get here. So they’re still, you know, so you’re still getting some supply. Uh, you are correct, and I think everyone’s optimistic that the easing of some of the, [00:08:00] uh, covid restrictions will help. But the other, you know, the, the other side of the coin is there is slowing demand. So you’re starting. So that’s part of where the balance is coming from. So we’re seeing improvement. I still think it takes a while. I don’t think new cars are gonna get a lot cheaper real soon.

Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, shifting gears a little bit to very al alternative assets. The Bahamas have been in the news lately. [00:08:30] <laugh>, uh, FTX collapsed. I’m not sure many people in mainstream market knew who FTX was. Uh, what lessons are there, if any, that we could take away from the collapse of, uh, the digital currency market?

Speaker 3:Right. Well, Paul, you know, the old saying, right, you know, history may not repeat itself, but it often rhymes. If something is too good to be true or seems too good to be true, it probably is. Um, you know, we have a situation here where it appears that [00:09:00] there’s just complete and out fraud. And, you know, part of that is, um, you have to do your homework, uh, as an investor, as an institution, I am, I have to say I’m a bit been a bit surprised at the size and scale of some of these institutions that have involved. There are certainly some big personalities that lost money in this that’s more common. Um, they’re, they’re not institutions. They don’t necessarily do the same level of diligence and, you know, big personalities who spend a lot of their time, [00:09:30] you know, being influencers. There’s a, there’s an attraction to the new shiny penny, if you will.

Speaker 3:And so this seemed exciting. So that part’s a little bit, but the fact that so many big institutions, so again, you have to do your homework. And my grandfather used to say, trust, everybody would always cut the cards, right? And I, and I think you, you have to see that, I think you’re seeing it spill over into other parts of, of the, you know, digital currency markets. Um, and I think that it, it’s gonna drive us toward a situation where you’re gonna see more, [00:10:00] um, regulation come through and come through pretty, pretty hard. And I’m, you know, you know, we as an insurance company operate in a fairly heavily regulated environment, so we’re accustomed to it, and not all regulation is bad. Uh, and particularly when you’re talking about exchange type systems, you have to have confidence in those systems. And so I think you’re gonna see more regulation there.

Speaker 1:Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m sure we will, and we, we saw this before, um, a lot of the central [00:10:30] banks were creating structures for, for regulating the, uh, currency. It’ll be interesting to see what happens, right. Following this. Um, so I’ll put you in the hot seat interest rates. Wow. Have these interest rates driven how we, how we price our products, how we <laugh>, right? How we compete in the market. Where do you think the, what’s gonna happen with rates, do you think, over the next, uh, six months?

Speaker 3:So I think there’s two pieces to this, Paul. The, the first piece is what is the Fed doing with sort of the short term rate? I e are they still raising? And [00:11:00] I think we’re still looking at a few more raises, you know, a few more raises here. They may be smaller. Um, but I think you’re looking at a few more raises. I think in general, we’ve had a, um, we’ve had a bit of a rally in rates in the past, um, you know, few weeks here. Uh, so rates have come off quite a bit, you know, come down quite a bit. But I, I do feel that we probably give some of that back here and we stay at least at that level, if not a little bit higher. [00:11:30] Again, if you look, you know, the, the whole point of raising rates is to combat inflation.

Speaker 3:If you look at where inflation is now, um, you know, we’re still pretty high. Um, and inflation is sticky. If you look at any historical charts of inflationary trends, once it comes, it stays around for a while. The Fed is fully aware of this and, and there is no playbook where it just sort of comes right back down. And so that will require rates to stay up for a while. Again, going back to what we talked about earlier on the [00:12:00] unemployment thing. Um, you know, if, if rates were to come back down a lot, I don’t think you’d see the unemployment level get to where it effectively where the Fed would like it to be. And therefore I think you, you continue to have wage pressure and so inflation sticks around. So I think we’re, we’re in this for a bit.

Speaker 1:Yeah. You, you mentioned rally last time we talked, I think you told us that this was maybe the third time in a hundred years where equities and bonds went down, uh, bond markets recovered [00:12:30] Yep. A bit in November. Do you think this is just a short, is this a rally? Do you think we’re returning to more normal market conditions?

Speaker 3:So normal is an interesting definition here. Um, uh, I think that we have to, this is, we’ve been a, a very highly volatile time period here. And again, these are rate rises, rate increases from the Fed that are historic. We haven’t [00:13:00] seen moves like this, you know, since Volker and, and the rapid pace of driving up rates is, um, again, very much unprecedented. So from that standpoint, we’re nowhere near normal. But you have to keep in mind that we’re coming off a really, really long period of the different kind of abnormal in the low, low zero rate environment. And again, that it, it was also abnormal. So I do think it’s getting a bit more normal. I think we have [00:13:30] a period of volatility yet ahead. Um, a certain amount of volatility is normal and we were accustomed to none. So the market took this pretty hard. But I do think we have a period of, you know, volatility ahead. But I think you’re starting to see it, and it will, as we come through, that look a lot more like the rate market that, you know, over my 30 year plus years I grew up with where, you know, it did move around a bit and, and, and there was some amount of volatility. I think it’s high now. I think it was too low before. [00:14:00] So the pendulum swung from side to side and you know, we’re gonna find the middle here.

Speaker 1:All right. Well David, thanks so much for spending some time with us and, uh, we’ll look forward to, uh, catching up again in, uh, a few months. You’re

Speaker 3:Welcome, Paul. Thank you.

Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please rate and recommend us on iTunes, Stitcher, overcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also get more information@thatannuityshow.com.

Nick DesrocherEpisode 174: Gas Prices, Inflation, Interest Rates and Digital Currency with David Czerniecki
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Episode 173: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 2 of 2

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Here’s the full text of her discussion:

Heads up to SOA, NAIFA, IRI, any other industry group- mark this moment as the point where contacts you have at these organizations should start listening.

Big bold assertion #1: Non-codification of verb sales in insurance means that intellectual property (inventions) can’t have value in insurance

Why is this true?

Assertion 2. The above-mentioned fact (Ip can’t have value in insurance) is true because of the intersection between how products sell and how trademark law works. I will explain further in a moment.

Assertion 3. IP having value is fundamental to the functioning of capitalism.

Assertion 4. In a demutualized world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically disintegrated from distribution, IP can only come to have value by codifying insurance advisement as a scalable, oversee-able, nationally regulated discipline

So we are proving assertion 1- IP has no value in my domain- by proving assertions 2-4

So let’s start with assertion 2 part 1: how do products sell. To understand this, we need first to define both the word “product” and then the word “sell.” Products are nouns. In the context of insurance and financial services, products are issuable containers, and their distribution is highly regulated. Products are issuable legal contracts within which IP can be embedded, and in exchange for the distribution of which compensation can be paid to an FP in respect of either, but never concurrently, a or b. A is from inside the noun in direct respect to sale thereof (this refers to agency and brokerage) whereas b is charged upon the AUA/AUM there formed following a product’s intro into an advised portfolio (b refers to RIA channel).

Now that we know what product means, we move on to sell. Sell means the exchange of remuneration in direct respect to [x- x is a verb in the RIA channel and it’s a noun in the agent/broker channels]. Wholesalers are people who so routinely sell wholes that we can describe their identity by putting an r at the end of the verb that they routinely perform. (By analogy, runners routinely run, we don’t call someone a runner who once ran across the street) All wholes are nouns. The human mind cannot conceive of a whole verb. So wholesalers sell nouns, and nouns sell when they have wholesalers selling them. Wholesalers work for either a noun manufacturer, or a noun seller. An organization that sells nouns will not switch which noun it has its wholesalers focused on selling unless the new noun is more profitable than is the incumbent noun portfolio. A product concept thus cannot have value, because what is valuable about the product/noun is the seller’s prior investment in manufacturing and/or wholesaling infrastructure., not clever IP that does not have higher profit margins than does the incumbent product set.

Now we define the second half of assertion 2, which is about trademarking. Trademark (the application of which differs for IP protection relative to much easier to defend in court brand/name protection)- in this case I’m talking IP protection- requires that the IP be noun-embeddable, whereas servicemarked requires the IP to be verb embedable. If you google “trademark definition”, when applied to IP defense as opposed to brand defense, you too will become aware that the definition of this word requires the IP owner to be able to either manufacture or to sell (remember what sell means from above!) the noun.

Insurance provides for minimization of liabilities (or contra-assets). Insurance advisor is not a defined term. Financial advisor is defined, and it means person who holds the authority to sell verbs (person who has an RIA affiliation, which means they can sell verbs. RIAs sell verbs only. Agents and brokers sell nouns only.) Financial advisors provide ongoing asset maximization advising and they frequently receive their compensation by advising upon, and thus billing upon, AUM accordingly. This asset max advising is a service. IP embedded in Services, for example, the managed account services provided by Morningstar Inc, are servicemarkable, thus they have been servicemarked, not trademarkable, because they’re verbs (services), not nouns.

Absent codifying insurance advisement so that insurance professionals can also sell verbs, by which i am saying: Absent popularizing a billing approach like benefits under advisement or income under advisement, there can’t be value to intellectual property in our field, because you can’t defend it via servicemark (because there’s no framework for scalably selling services in our domain) and you can’t sell it as a noun because an organization can only monetize a trademark in insurance from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution. an incumbent will only do this if the new product has higher expected profit margins than does its existing portfolio. Not likely in today’s fee conscious environment)

So again, because my prior words are true, Not having a scalable advisement frame for liability reduction means intellectual property that is servicemarked in our field also cannot have value, because it can’t be sold (to sell again means to exchange remuneration in direct respect to x. Non-codification of insurance advisement means we can’t scalably sell verbs in insurance). So concludes my proof of assertion #2, that IP can’t have value in my field.

Assertion 3: The impossibility of IP having value in my field is an offense about which utter outrage is merited. It is a direct affront to the very principles of capitalism. Capitalism as a governing frame relies heavily upon IP being protectable and monetizable so as to encourage invention.

Thus I question: Why is mine the sole field in this country to which capitalism is not permitted to apply, and why are other members of my community not apoplectic about my potentially true words?

Consider the implications that not codifying verb sales in my domain has now that post-SECURE, annuities are permitted in plans. Plan advisors, like all other fiduciaries in America, are inherently taught that asset maximization is the only valid lens through which financial advisement can occur. Yet i believe that consumer financials occur not only on the left side of the consumer balance sheet, but also on their income statement, their statement of net worth, their cash flow statement, and the right side of balance sheet, which is where insurance plays. Plan advisors don’t know annuities and vice versa. Advisers can’t begin to imagine why we insurance people believe our solutions have value, because they are taught to see the world through the lens of asset maximization and are not taught about liability minimization as a valid entry point to a consumer finance worldview.

Annuities in DC will only take off if we band together to fight for their place. Actuaries used to have a role in asset liability matching when we as a society had DB plans. There isn’t a natural spot for an actuary in DC plans because liability consideration is not yet required so as to advise in DC, because DC, which relies on AUM as a billing base, even though ERISA includes the words “Retirement Income” in the acronym, naturally emphasizes asset maximization.

Why not IUA?

The Society of Actuaries, NAIFA and IRI must all strongly consider the possibility that my words might be true, and if they feel they might be, they need to begin acting yesterday.

Representatives of any of these industry organizations, or other industry organizations that can help change what I believe to be the true circumstances that i have just described to you are invited to email me at mrichterfis@gmail.com and request a deck that further explains my perspective and the dangers to both our industry and our society more broadly that follow logically therefrom.

Lastly for this diatribe, I hold that Insurance advisement should be a National field (since it is not about noun placement but about contextual advisement, it is not per se corollated to an individual contract the way some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to occur, thus the field would not make sense to be state regulated) it should be policed similarly to how RIAs are overseen.

To achieve this framework is my career goal.

27 years remain until I begin taking social security at age 70. It thus follows logically that I will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns on these matters for at least 27 more years (unless they’re resolved in less time than that).

Thank you for your patience both in allowing me to read that today, and in helping me along in my communicative journey towards hopefully making this point understandable to at least a few people!

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and we’ve

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[paul_tyler]: got our great set up hosts here

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome

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[bruno_caron]: thank

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[paul_tyler]: m

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[bruno_caron]: you

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[paul_tyler]: from canada ramsey

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[bruno_caron]: ah

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[paul_tyler]: from atlanta

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[ramsey_d_smith]: always great to be here

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[paul_tyler]: tis and where are you from where
are you

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i am in hartford connecticut today good
morning

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[paul_tyler]: thanks broadcasting from the basement i know

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[bruno_caron]: uh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: basement

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[paul_tyler]: which i’ve

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[tisa_rabun_marshall]: boat building

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[bruno_caron]: h

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[paul_tyler]: spacemen of the boat bill and i’m
obviously in just outside new york

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: we have great

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeh

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[paul_tyler]: guests okay in fact record set appearances
by none other and michelle

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: rector co founder founder co founder

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: of nuity research and consultant with her
co founder mark chamberlain michelle and mark welcome

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank

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[michelle_richter]: you

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[mark_chamberlain]: you

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[michelle_richter]: so much

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: for having us

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[paul_tyler]: okay so before we dive

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[michelle_richter]: very exciting

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[paul_tyler]: in

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[michelle_richter]: to be here

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[paul_tyler]: i know you you have a message
i know which will want to get to

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[paul_tyler]: before we do that

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: okay you change your name a

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[mark_chamberlain]: m

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[paul_tyler]: little bit with your firm tell us
what are you doing what’s just maybe a

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[paul_tyler]: thumbnail sketch

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: of your company you’re in your what
you re

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[michelle_richter]: sure

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[paul_tyler]: doing for a lot of good companies

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: we’re doing

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: annuity research and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: m so we got really clever with
the name and we

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[mark_chamberlain]: yah

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[michelle_richter]: called it annuity research

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and consulting

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[ramsey_d_smith]: h m

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[michelle_richter]: but like like lame insurance people would

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

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[michelle_richter]: but but in all

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: seriousness you know what what we’re up
to is an intention to bridge the communities

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[michelle_richter]: between plan advisors and between those who
are expert in the insurance space so we

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[michelle_richter]: very much have an intention of education

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: of advocacy and of providing information for
plan

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: advisors to then be able to safely

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: recommend solutions that include ensure and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: solutions in plan

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: um and i’d love to let mark
kind of tag

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[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: along there to add to that thought
about our corporate vision

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[mark_chamberlain]: sure well good morning pleasure to be
with you and i’ve watched many episodes of

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[mark_chamberlain]: this

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: show by the way so i’ve enjoyed

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[paul_tyler]: oh thank

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[mark_chamberlain]: it

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: you

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[ramsey_d_smith]: welcome

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[mark_chamberlain]: thank you i got started down this
path in two thousand

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: alking with paul just a bit before
the show at the time i had just

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[mark_chamberlain]: joined the ice sirs business before the
launch and

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: went down to san

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: diego to meet with

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[paul_tyler]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: a company called frontier analytics which is
a software

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[mark_chamberlain]: company

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: back then it was providing the asset
class optimization technology for a lot of the

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[mark_chamberlain]: broker dealer you know investment advisory platform

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[michelle_richter]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: and at the time

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: index funds in general weren’t well integrated
into those systems they were primarily selling active

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[mark_chamberlain]: mutual funds and separate account managers and

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: e

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: ts weren’t integrated at all so that
was the challenge back then in two thousand

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[mark_chamberlain]: and on the board of that company
was harry marko wits and so i got

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[mark_chamberlain]: to meet him that day and was
invited back for a second meeting and the

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[mark_chamberlain]: topic that day was how do we
integrate annuities and mortality pooling into an acid

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[mark_chamberlain]: application optimization that was two thousand

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[bruno_caron]: yah

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[mark_chamberlain]: so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: we are in twenty twenty

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: two in the industry still has not
figured that out and so when black rod

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[mark_chamberlain]: bought the ice sears business in in
well bought all of b in two thus

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[mark_chamberlain]: and nine and a lot of us
who had started the company or started the

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[mark_chamberlain]: business rather

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: parishooted out at that point i was
looking for a similar challenge for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: you know how do we

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: help the industry move forward and what’s
the next place to do that and so

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[mark_chamberlain]: i got started on trying to solve
the innuitization puzzle back in two thousand and

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[mark_chamberlain]: ten

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[mark_chamberlain]: and

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[paul_tyler]: yea

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[mark_chamberlain]: michelle recruited me

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: this past summer we were both presenting
at

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: a at a conference for the new
board it’s the new center for

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[mark_chamberlain]: board certified feduciaries which is as something
that was begun by a don trone who

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[mark_chamberlain]: originally founded f i three sixty and
the class was on integrating annuities into de

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[mark_chamberlain]: plants and shell and i both taught
classes at that at that at that particular

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: three day conference and she recruited me
to come help her try to try to

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[mark_chamberlain]: start a company to solve the problem

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: so that’s that’s the longer history of
how we got together

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know it’s fascinating this business how
many amazing people touch and and drive so

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[paul_tyler]: many different career paths so yeah mark
wits wow

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[michelle_richter]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: how cool is that so michelle tell
don’t be bashful i know you are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: just

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[michelle_richter]: complete

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: you are

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[paul_tyler]: not never

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: said no one especially

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[paul_tyler]: no one on linked in ever

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: said that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: so all right

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: how should we be looking at the
future of annuities okay future anuities in plan

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[paul_tyler]: futures of annuity you tell

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[michelle_richter]: a

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[paul_tyler]: us

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah so so from from my point
of view what what i’m seeing you know

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[michelle_richter]: uh

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: with part of my time represent the
institutional

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: retirement income council which is think a
non profit think tank operating in the defined

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[michelle_richter]: contribution space

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: and my opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[michelle_richter]: that i express here today are necessarily
my own and not for say comforting with

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[michelle_richter]: those of either the iris or any
of its member companies okay but so in

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[michelle_richter]: this position i hear a lot about
what going on in space and and i

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[michelle_richter]: also facilitate consortion of retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: income providers that has been established through

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: broad ridge f three sixty um so
so i have the opportunity to hear a

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[michelle_richter]: lot of what’s going on behind the
scenes as the industry really prepares for what

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[michelle_richter]: is expected to be massive movement towards
annuities and plan some of the attributes that

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[michelle_richter]: i see as necessary right now for
this field to take off include um annuities

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[michelle_richter]: need to be included within what in
the qualify or in the d c d

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[michelle_richter]: c being defined contribution by the way
space

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[paul_tyler]: ah

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[michelle_richter]: you know we we need for annuities
to be incorporated into qualified default investment alternatives

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[michelle_richter]: for them with offdout provisions of course
for them to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: have real main stream success

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: we need data for mat standardization

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: to be undertaken

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

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[michelle_richter]: by an industry

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: organization like

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: spark for example it is the industry
organization for record keepers and it is in

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[michelle_richter]: conversation with libra

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: about

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: how to accomplish some of those jectives
where because historically you know record keepers didn’t

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[michelle_richter]: talk to annuity companies and annuity companies
didn’t talk to record keepers so

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: that to the data connactivitythat is necessary
for reporting annuity elements it benefit elements to

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[michelle_richter]: the end participant like that infrastructure

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

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[michelle_richter]: isn’t there yet so some of that
is needs to be addressed for there to

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[michelle_richter]: be a wide scale and then lastly
fiduciary

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: concerns need to be satisfied because plan
sponsors and those who advise them serve in

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[michelle_richter]: a fiduciary capacity and the concerns that
i’m hearing about how advisors can introduce annuities

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[michelle_richter]: plan are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: more materially about ongoing monitoring than they
are about initial introduction where there’s there is

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[michelle_richter]: certainly a need within the plan advisory
community to get access to basic information about

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[michelle_richter]: about products but our product our industries
products but but i am hearing as i

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[michelle_richter]: said less concerned about how to get
enough information to be able to make an

256
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[michelle_richter]: initial

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: recommendation than i

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: am about things like how will i
know what renewal

262
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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: rates on indexinuities

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[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: actually turn out to be since i’m
making this recommendation that needs to be monitored

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[michelle_richter]: on an ongoing basis so this the
kind of information that’s going to be necessary

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[michelle_richter]: within the plan advisory community for our
product lines to take off and it’s looking

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[michelle_richter]: to me like that’s going to be
the case

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: so we should all prepare accordingly um
i’d like to let mark pitch you on

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[michelle_richter]: why we should

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: all prepare accordingly

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: because you know my view is that
you know as it stands right now and

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[michelle_richter]: i’ll go deeper on this a couple
of

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: minutes but you know as the community
stands right now amongst

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: plan advisors as i mentioned plan advisors
they advise plans d c plans

281
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: are inherently accumulation focused it’s never been
the

283
00:10:02,795 –> 00:10:02,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

284
00:10:02,919 –> 00:10:11,668
[michelle_richter]: responsibility of a plan advisor to understand
decumulation because historically plant sponsors did not want

285
00:10:11,768 –> 00:10:12,409
[michelle_richter]: to retain

286
00:10:12,296 –> 00:10:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

287
00:10:12,650 –> 00:10:19,862
[michelle_richter]: assets through participants retirement but that dynamic
has changed dramatically in the last five to

288
00:10:19,922 –> 00:10:25,251
[michelle_richter]: ten years and it’s it in large
part of function of record keeping fee structures

289
00:10:26,413 –> 00:10:31,962
[michelle_richter]: and there being economies of scale to
keeping participants in plan but it also has

290
00:10:32,042 –> 00:10:37,511
[michelle_richter]: to do with some regulatority since um
and it just is the case now that

291
00:10:37,631 –> 00:10:41,939
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors need to become more expert
and how to address the

292
00:10:41,908 –> 00:10:42,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

293
00:10:41,979 –> 00:10:46,049
[michelle_richter]: decumulation phase so this whole um

294
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[ramsey_d_smith]: michele i’ve

295
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[michelle_richter]: m

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00:10:46,746 –> 00:10:47,207
[ramsey_d_smith]: got a i’ve

297
00:10:47,237 –> 00:10:47,742
[michelle_richter]: community

298
00:10:47,247 –> 00:10:48,369
[ramsey_d_smith]: got i’ve got a quick

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00:10:48,288 –> 00:10:48,449
[michelle_richter]: yeah

300
00:10:48,429 –> 00:10:48,730
[ramsey_d_smith]: question

301
00:10:48,480 –> 00:10:48,520
[bruno_caron]: a

302
00:10:48,790 –> 00:10:49,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: if if

303
00:10:49,216 –> 00:10:49,318
[michelle_richter]: oh

304
00:10:49,271 –> 00:10:50,192
[ramsey_d_smith]: i may because i think

305
00:10:50,178 –> 00:10:50,441
[bruno_caron]: oh

306
00:10:50,785 –> 00:10:51,027
[michelle_richter]: yes

307
00:10:50,873 –> 00:10:51,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s there’s

308
00:10:51,329 –> 00:10:51,651
[michelle_richter]: please

309
00:10:51,474 –> 00:10:57,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: two interesting elements of what you’ve just
said so one is let’s talk a little

310
00:10:57,144 –> 00:11:00,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: bit about what is it plan advisor
look like right so right

311
00:11:00,759 –> 00:11:00,841
[michelle_richter]: ah

312
00:11:00,770 –> 00:11:00,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: there

313
00:11:00,773 –> 00:11:01,463
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

314
00:11:01,050 –> 00:11:01,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: there there’s

315
00:11:01,476 –> 00:11:01,557
[michelle_richter]: ah

316
00:11:01,531 –> 00:11:06,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: a broad spectrum of four one k
plans the small ones they’re big ones so

317
00:11:07,381 –> 00:11:12,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: we talk about plan advisors we’re talking
about r a are we talking about sort

318
00:11:12,270 –> 00:11:13,713
[ramsey_d_smith]: of large consultancies

319
00:11:13,605 –> 00:11:13,846
[michelle_richter]: yeah

320
00:11:13,813 –> 00:11:15,456
[ramsey_d_smith]: like like like a milliment or

321
00:11:15,814 –> 00:11:15,975
[michelle_richter]: yeah

322
00:11:15,857 –> 00:11:17,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: what is the what is the what
is the scope

323
00:11:18,145 –> 00:11:18,347
[michelle_richter]: yes

324
00:11:18,442 –> 00:11:19,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: people that we’re talking

325
00:11:19,125 –> 00:11:19,289
[michelle_richter]: oh

326
00:11:19,264 –> 00:11:19,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: about

327
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:21,968
[michelle_richter]: the answer is yes and yes

328
00:11:22,116 –> 00:11:22,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

329
00:11:22,409 –> 00:11:23,290
[michelle_richter]: right so the

330
00:11:24,326 –> 00:11:24,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

331
00:11:24,672 –> 00:11:28,158
[michelle_richter]: the people who serve plans can can
be

332
00:11:28,985 –> 00:11:29,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

333
00:11:29,260 –> 00:11:29,701
[michelle_richter]: typically

334
00:11:29,726 –> 00:11:29,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

335
00:11:29,821 –> 00:11:31,764
[michelle_richter]: larger plans work with a

336
00:11:32,006 –> 00:11:32,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:11:32,025 –> 00:11:33,046
[michelle_richter]: sultan that has

338
00:11:33,154 –> 00:11:33,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

339
00:11:33,487 –> 00:11:33,687
[michelle_richter]: home

340
00:11:33,626 –> 00:11:33,909
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:11:33,808 –> 00:11:37,975
[michelle_richter]: office support working for an organization

342
00:11:37,899 –> 00:11:37,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:11:38,135 –> 00:11:41,320
[michelle_richter]: that is principally focused on plan advisement

344
00:11:42,005 –> 00:11:42,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:11:42,482 –> 00:11:47,010
[michelle_richter]: whereas retirement and advisors so so you’d
call those people consultants

346
00:11:47,360 –> 00:11:47,381
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

347
00:11:47,651 –> 00:11:48,292
[michelle_richter]: whereas you’d

348
00:11:48,215 –> 00:11:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

349
00:11:48,372 –> 00:11:48,572
[michelle_richter]: call

350
00:11:48,498 –> 00:11:48,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:11:48,692 –> 00:11:55,404
[michelle_richter]: an advisor a person who probably works
with a smaller shop and may be on

352
00:11:55,464 –> 00:11:59,877
[michelle_richter]: their own um and that always is
performed

353
00:11:59,450 –> 00:11:59,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

354
00:11:59,977 –> 00:12:01,683
[michelle_richter]: through a registered investment advisor

355
00:12:02,327 –> 00:12:03,090
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what would be the

356
00:12:03,026 –> 00:12:05,253
[michelle_richter]: but but they’re not per se wealth
managers

357
00:12:05,236 –> 00:12:09,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure and what and what sort of
size of what size of plans would they

358
00:12:09,801 –> 00:12:10,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: be typically

359
00:12:11,475 –> 00:12:11,717
[michelle_richter]: yeah

360
00:12:12,044 –> 00:12:12,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

361
00:12:12,323 –> 00:12:12,444
[michelle_richter]: yeah

362
00:12:13,596 –> 00:12:13,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: a park

363
00:12:14,207 –> 00:12:18,414
[michelle_richter]: so the consultants might be looking in
the billion dollar range

364
00:12:18,299 –> 00:12:18,319
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

365
00:12:18,447 –> 00:12:18,468
[bruno_caron]: m

366
00:12:18,534 –> 00:12:19,916
[michelle_richter]: right and advisors

367
00:12:19,715 –> 00:12:19,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

368
00:12:20,036 –> 00:12:24,884
[michelle_richter]: are you know likely addressing the market
below that i mean that certainly

369
00:12:25,208 –> 00:12:25,432
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

370
00:12:25,405 –> 00:12:27,009
[michelle_richter]: a hard and fast rule but

371
00:12:27,896 –> 00:12:28,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

372
00:12:28,031 –> 00:12:29,233
[michelle_richter]: you know ball park

373
00:12:29,486 –> 00:12:33,453
[ramsey_d_smith]: so so the next next piece is
that i think it’s very interesting following that

374
00:12:33,533 –> 00:12:38,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the the it’s it’s it’s an
important business for a lot of r s

375
00:12:39,443 –> 00:12:43,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what you’re saying is that where
before it might have been a business that

376
00:12:43,721 –> 00:12:50,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: was that was limited to sort of
the accumulation phase now there’s this retention opportunity

377
00:12:51,237 –> 00:12:55,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: all the way into retirement it’s an
important business opportunity as well for that for

378
00:12:55,544 –> 00:12:57,111
[ramsey_d_smith]: that aeneisthatis that fair statement

379
00:12:58,806 –> 00:13:03,434
[michelle_richter]: it is a fair statement and it
is half of the reason why i’m here

380
00:13:03,514 –> 00:13:04,796
[michelle_richter]: today it’s because

381
00:13:04,458 –> 00:13:04,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

382
00:13:04,876 –> 00:13:06,599
[michelle_richter]: i believe that my people

383
00:13:06,326 –> 00:13:06,748
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

384
00:13:06,759 –> 00:13:08,642
[michelle_richter]: have a place within this community

385
00:13:08,817 –> 00:13:08,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

386
00:13:09,664 –> 00:13:10,906
[michelle_richter]: it the case that

387
00:13:10,840 –> 00:13:10,860
[bruno_caron]: i

388
00:13:11,627 –> 00:13:15,013
[michelle_richter]: retirement plan advisors don’t know annuities right

389
00:13:15,116 –> 00:13:15,357
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

390
00:13:15,193 –> 00:13:21,864
[michelle_richter]: with everybody certainly knows that that’s the
case and arica does require for experts

391
00:13:21,858 –> 00:13:22,616
[bruno_caron]: ye

392
00:13:22,045 –> 00:13:27,834
[michelle_richter]: who are advising a plan if they
do not have experts in a certain arena

393
00:13:27,914 –> 00:13:33,644
[michelle_richter]: that they think is important for the
plan then an every side adviser is required

394
00:13:33,744 –> 00:13:34,726
[michelle_richter]: to contract with

395
00:13:34,766 –> 00:13:35,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

396
00:13:34,786 –> 00:13:42,158
[michelle_richter]: an outside expert to to give them
guidance on how to review those you know

397
00:13:42,198 –> 00:13:50,212
[michelle_richter]: those solutions so you know from my
view i think that there is a need

398
00:13:50,612 –> 00:13:59,748
[michelle_richter]: for insurance experts to get ready to
help plan advisors to evaluate insurance contract that’s

399
00:13:59,828 –> 00:14:04,015
[michelle_richter]: at the heart of what mark and
i will be doing as early as february

400
00:14:03,995 –> 00:14:04,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

401
00:14:04,776 –> 00:14:06,038
[michelle_richter]: and and i

402
00:14:06,149 –> 00:14:06,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

403
00:14:06,178 –> 00:14:08,202
[michelle_richter]: feel that we will not

404
00:14:08,036 –> 00:14:08,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

405
00:14:08,302 –> 00:14:11,347
[michelle_richter]: be able to dress all of the
demand

406
00:14:11,246 –> 00:14:11,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

407
00:14:11,527 –> 00:14:16,375
[michelle_richter]: ourselves for such services because plan advisors
do not

408
00:14:16,304 –> 00:14:16,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:14:16,455 –> 00:14:24,611
[michelle_richter]: have that expertise my imagination is that
building models or that kind of expertise will

410
00:14:24,772 –> 00:14:32,178
[michelle_richter]: be hourly or project based or subscription
based and so if that is the case

411
00:14:32,559 –> 00:14:38,248
[michelle_richter]: here cannot be commissions paid in an
aria context so it seems to me

412
00:14:38,156 –> 00:14:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:14:38,449 –> 00:14:41,113
[michelle_richter]: that the guidance that is going to
be necessary

414
00:14:40,766 –> 00:14:41,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:14:41,213 –> 00:14:42,375
[michelle_richter]: is going to be livered

416
00:14:42,725 –> 00:14:42,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

417
00:14:42,816 –> 00:14:45,220
[michelle_richter]: v one of the mechanisms i just
described

418
00:14:45,515 –> 00:14:45,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

419
00:14:45,618 –> 00:14:45,699
[paul_tyler]: ay

420
00:14:45,821 –> 00:14:47,764
[michelle_richter]: and to me it appears that the

421
00:14:47,898 –> 00:14:47,918
[bruno_caron]: m

422
00:14:47,964 –> 00:14:50,388
[michelle_richter]: form of entity qualified to do such

423
00:14:50,273 –> 00:14:50,495
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

424
00:14:50,689 –> 00:14:56,539
[michelle_richter]: is an r a m and that’s
the reason why i have used my for

425
00:14:56,579 –> 00:14:59,604
[michelle_richter]: that purpose and and i

426
00:14:59,876 –> 00:15:00,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

427
00:14:59,924 –> 00:15:01,467
[michelle_richter]: think that plan advisers

428
00:15:01,001 –> 00:15:01,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

429
00:15:01,607 –> 00:15:06,896
[michelle_richter]: will desire for the counter party that
they interact with to also b fiduciary

430
00:15:07,195 –> 00:15:07,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

431
00:15:07,838 –> 00:15:14,449
[michelle_richter]: an annuity fediciary for which i applied
for a trade mark because insurance fiduciary is

432
00:15:14,649 –> 00:15:21,082
[michelle_richter]: already trade marked by one man who
will prevent others from using that mark who

433
00:15:21,262 –> 00:15:25,412
[michelle_richter]: did in fact do so with me
which is the reason why my entity is

434
00:15:25,512 –> 00:15:25,933
[michelle_richter]: renamed

435
00:15:26,399 –> 00:15:26,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: other

436
00:15:26,588 –> 00:15:26,772
[paul_tyler]: work

437
00:15:26,620 –> 00:15:28,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: than owning the name does he actually
perform that function

438
00:15:31,406 –> 00:15:32,490
[michelle_richter]: i decline to comment

439
00:15:32,286 –> 00:15:32,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

440
00:15:32,590 –> 00:15:33,293
[michelle_richter]: on the individual

441
00:15:33,749 –> 00:15:33,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: i just

442
00:15:34,067 –> 00:15:34,288
[paul_tyler]: okay

443
00:15:34,350 –> 00:15:34,451
[ramsey_d_smith]: just

444
00:15:34,749 –> 00:15:35,732
[paul_tyler]: well and let me

445
00:15:35,693 –> 00:15:35,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: go

446
00:15:35,773 –> 00:15:35,913
[paul_tyler]: just

447
00:15:35,814 –> 00:15:35,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead

448
00:15:36,475 –> 00:15:38,381
[paul_tyler]: be even a little more specific for
a listener so

449
00:15:38,605 –> 00:15:42,652
[michelle_richter]: i hold a patent my former employer
holds a patent

450
00:15:42,473 –> 00:15:42,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

451
00:15:42,792 –> 00:15:44,135
[michelle_richter]: on intellectual property

452
00:15:44,186 –> 00:15:44,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:15:44,275 –> 00:15:51,908
[michelle_richter]: that i invented imbedding life insurance and
annuities into holistic acid application to challenge mark

454
00:15:52,629 –> 00:15:54,592
[michelle_richter]: who said that it can be done

455
00:15:54,657 –> 00:15:54,678
[bruno_caron]: m

456
00:15:54,732 –> 00:15:55,614
[michelle_richter]: it can be done

457
00:15:55,526 –> 00:15:55,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

458
00:15:56,075 –> 00:16:01,704
[michelle_richter]: it was done and yet i cannot
call myself an insurance fiduciary i can call

459
00:16:01,804 –> 00:16:02,568
[michelle_richter]: myself an annuity

460
00:16:02,594 –> 00:16:03,002
[paul_tyler]: uh

461
00:16:02,628 –> 00:16:03,131
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

462
00:16:04,174 –> 00:16:10,845
[paul_tyler]: well and i’ll say for my experience
providing financial planning

463
00:16:10,826 –> 00:16:11,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

464
00:16:10,986 –> 00:16:14,932
[paul_tyler]: support inside of corporate structure is immensely
complicated only from

465
00:16:14,876 –> 00:16:14,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

466
00:16:14,972 –> 00:16:17,657
[paul_tyler]: a legal perspect but a practical perspective

467
00:16:17,195 –> 00:16:17,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

468
00:16:17,737 –> 00:16:18,558
[paul_tyler]: of working with a

469
00:16:18,623 –> 00:16:18,643
[mark_chamberlain]: m

470
00:16:18,638 –> 00:16:23,406
[paul_tyler]: wide variety of employes so when you
talk about a plan advisor or an annuity

471
00:16:23,526 –> 00:16:30,658
[paul_tyler]: specialist is the client the and sponsor
or is the client the individuals and the

472
00:16:30,698 –> 00:16:33,242
[paul_tyler]: corporation or individuals inside the plan

473
00:16:35,228 –> 00:16:41,754
[michelle_richter]: i it’s a great question i would
argue there’s three clients there is the plan

474
00:16:41,814 –> 00:16:44,619
[michelle_richter]: advisor who makes the determination

475
00:16:44,036 –> 00:16:44,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

476
00:16:44,719 –> 00:16:46,843
[michelle_richter]: of how to select other service providers

477
00:16:46,406 –> 00:16:46,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

478
00:16:47,764 –> 00:16:53,996
[michelle_richter]: there the plan itself and there are
the participants in the plan and the person

479
00:16:54,076 –> 00:16:58,404
[michelle_richter]: who’s giving the guidance has to be
thinking about all of those constituencies

480
00:17:00,266 –> 00:17:01,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

481
00:17:00,914 –> 00:17:05,402
[paul_tyler]: i guess is that is that like
is that possible right i think of the

482
00:17:06,023 –> 00:17:11,111
[paul_tyler]: thou think of the challenge s just
to get the enrollment you mentioned i think

483
00:17:11,351 –> 00:17:13,617
[paul_tyler]: michelle you favor an din into this

484
00:17:13,770 –> 00:17:13,991
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

485
00:17:14,158 –> 00:17:15,221
[paul_tyler]: into the process

486
00:17:15,317 –> 00:17:17,069
[michelle_richter]: yeah i favor

487
00:17:16,828 –> 00:17:17,010
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

488
00:17:17,170 –> 00:17:17,532
[michelle_richter]: up doubt

489
00:17:17,794 –> 00:17:21,735
[paul_tyler]: ped out lopped out perfect world

490
00:17:21,836 –> 00:17:21,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

491
00:17:21,875 –> 00:17:22,336
[paul_tyler]: what’s the

492
00:17:22,648 –> 00:17:24,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm oh

493
00:17:23,818 –> 00:17:24,539
[paul_tyler]: ramsey gives us

494
00:17:24,678 –> 00:17:25,338
[bruno_caron]: yeah

495
00:17:24,720 –> 00:17:25,421
[paul_tyler]: the tuns up on

496
00:17:25,376 –> 00:17:25,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:17:25,461 –> 00:17:25,782
[paul_tyler]: that one

498
00:17:26,298 –> 00:17:26,765
[bruno_caron]: uh

499
00:17:26,885 –> 00:17:26,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

500
00:17:27,384 –> 00:17:27,685
[paul_tyler]: perfect

501
00:17:27,537 –> 00:17:27,558
[bruno_caron]: h

502
00:17:27,785 –> 00:17:28,065
[paul_tyler]: world

503
00:17:28,076 –> 00:17:29,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

504
00:17:28,787 –> 00:17:30,249
[paul_tyler]: what is that number like

505
00:17:30,678 –> 00:17:31,398
[bruno_caron]: yeah

506
00:17:30,730 –> 00:17:31,531
[paul_tyler]: does everybody have

507
00:17:31,673 –> 00:17:31,693
[mark_chamberlain]: m

508
00:17:32,235 –> 00:17:32,457
[michelle_richter]: oh

509
00:17:32,513 –> 00:17:34,276
[paul_tyler]: five percent their assets between thirty

510
00:17:34,233 –> 00:17:34,395
[michelle_richter]: yeah

511
00:17:34,316 –> 00:17:37,661
[paul_tyler]: and forty in this annuity is that
then you get to fifty and sixty you’ve

512
00:17:37,681 –> 00:17:38,022
[paul_tyler]: got ten

513
00:17:38,696 –> 00:17:39,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

514
00:17:39,174 –> 00:17:39,595
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

515
00:17:40,095 –> 00:17:40,438
[michelle_richter]: oh

516
00:17:40,377 –> 00:17:40,538
[paul_tyler]: if you

517
00:17:40,466 –> 00:17:40,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:17:40,558 –> 00:17:41,280
[paul_tyler]: were righting a lot what

519
00:17:41,185 –> 00:17:41,287
[michelle_richter]: the

520
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:41,460
[paul_tyler]: would

521
00:17:41,449 –> 00:17:41,753
[michelle_richter]: answer

522
00:17:41,500 –> 00:17:41,701
[paul_tyler]: it be

523
00:17:43,726 –> 00:17:44,787
[michelle_richter]: well i’m actually going to

524
00:17:44,808 –> 00:17:45,072
[bruno_caron]: yeah

525
00:17:44,847 –> 00:17:48,373
[michelle_richter]: have mark answer this because our organization
takes

526
00:17:48,533 –> 00:17:48,901
[mark_chamberlain]: my

527
00:17:48,554 –> 00:17:53,261
[michelle_richter]: a view point around how the stages
that we think you’re supposed to look at

528
00:17:53,742 –> 00:17:55,525
[michelle_richter]: as a plan advisor then

529
00:17:55,886 –> 00:17:56,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

530
00:17:56,327 –> 00:18:02,270
[michelle_richter]: it’s through that lens that you’re supposed
to then think about products all you mark

531
00:18:04,343 –> 00:18:07,807
[mark_chamberlain]: we didn’t see that one coming but
i’ll give

532
00:18:07,695 –> 00:18:07,957
[michelle_richter]: uh

533
00:18:07,867 –> 00:18:08,227
[mark_chamberlain]: it a shot

534
00:18:08,298 –> 00:18:08,579
[bruno_caron]: my

535
00:18:08,644 –> 00:18:08,685
[michelle_richter]: uh

536
00:18:08,945 –> 00:18:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

537
00:18:09,589 –> 00:18:12,945
[mark_chamberlain]: my perspective on all of this is
that

538
00:18:13,835 –> 00:18:13,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

539
00:18:14,913 –> 00:18:22,454
[mark_chamberlain]: open architecture approach to providing institutional quality
diligence and consulting means that

540
00:18:23,366 –> 00:18:23,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

541
00:18:23,395 –> 00:18:29,735
[mark_chamberlain]: there is no best solution there are
only trade offs and one of the possible

542
00:18:30,375 –> 00:18:31,497
[mark_chamberlain]: conclusions that a board

543
00:18:31,526 –> 00:18:31,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

544
00:18:31,597 –> 00:18:34,620
[mark_chamberlain]: can reach is that bringing an annuity
inside the

545
00:18:34,555 –> 00:18:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

546
00:18:34,660 –> 00:18:35,361
[mark_chamberlain]: plan isn’t the

547
00:18:35,366 –> 00:18:35,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

548
00:18:35,421 –> 00:18:38,919
[mark_chamberlain]: best decision for them it has to
be one of the options on the table

549
00:18:38,996 –> 00:18:39,241
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

550
00:18:39,401 –> 00:18:44,218
[mark_chamberlain]: and the consultant has to be ready
to support that and educated in such a

551
00:18:44,278 –> 00:18:45,645
[mark_chamberlain]: way that that’s that’s actually

552
00:18:45,447 –> 00:18:45,528
[michelle_richter]: ah

553
00:18:45,786 –> 00:18:51,448
[mark_chamberlain]: considered oh in an unbiased way so
that’s a little bit

554
00:18:51,408 –> 00:18:51,428
[bruno_caron]: m

555
00:18:51,488 –> 00:18:57,246
[mark_chamberlain]: of a constraint on who’s going to
be considered the outside expert and that gets

556
00:18:57,326 –> 00:18:59,551
[mark_chamberlain]: to the heart of michel’s point of

557
00:19:00,686 –> 00:19:01,110
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:19:00,693 –> 00:19:04,201
[mark_chamberlain]: the right way to compensate this kind
of an expert isn’t based on a product

559
00:19:04,301 –> 00:19:08,650
[mark_chamberlain]: sale the only way you’re going to
get truly objectivity is if they’re they’re paid

560
00:19:08,730 –> 00:19:10,514
[mark_chamberlain]: a consulting a hard dollar consulting fee

561
00:19:10,695 –> 00:19:10,916
[michelle_richter]: oh

562
00:19:11,476 –> 00:19:19,699
[mark_chamberlain]: so with that said no is it
optimal to try and say to a plant

563
00:19:19,655 –> 00:19:19,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

564
00:19:19,739 –> 00:19:26,971
[mark_chamberlain]: participant you should have ex percent defaulted
into this solution well that gets into the

565
00:19:27,051 –> 00:19:29,785
[mark_chamberlain]: triage what stage is the participant

566
00:19:29,345 –> 00:19:29,366
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

567
00:19:30,007 –> 00:19:34,636
[mark_chamberlain]: in and their financial planning are they
the accumulation

568
00:19:34,556 –> 00:19:34,818
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

569
00:19:34,716 –> 00:19:35,017
[mark_chamberlain]: phase

570
00:19:35,088 –> 00:19:36,198
[bruno_caron]: yeah

571
00:19:35,118 –> 00:19:38,491
[mark_chamberlain]: are they in the near retirement phase
or are they going to retire next year

572
00:19:39,623 –> 00:19:44,651
[mark_chamberlain]: and so that’s probably the first the
first conversation for

573
00:19:44,486 –> 00:19:45,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah m

574
00:19:45,893 –> 00:19:49,599
[mark_chamberlain]: the expert to have with the board
is what stage do you want to solve

575
00:19:49,679 –> 00:19:54,633
[mark_chamberlain]: for in your plan you want to
try and put something in place that will

576
00:19:54,733 –> 00:19:59,181
[mark_chamberlain]: fit those who are in the most
urgent need which are those people that are

577
00:19:59,221 –> 00:20:01,965
[mark_chamberlain]: retiring this year next year the year
after

578
00:20:02,636 –> 00:20:03,299
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

579
00:20:02,847 –> 00:20:09,201
[mark_chamberlain]: and so there are they’ve got some
educational needs about how to think about putting

580
00:20:09,261 –> 00:20:14,124
[mark_chamberlain]: together a retirement income plan that can
not only be secure for them in an

581
00:20:14,224 –> 00:20:19,293
[mark_chamberlain]: inflationary environment but in possibly a deflationary
environment also and you have to be able

582
00:20:19,373 –> 00:20:27,210
[mark_chamberlain]: to do some serious education about where
annuities fit relative systematic withdrawal and then you

583
00:20:27,250 –> 00:20:29,559
[mark_chamberlain]: have to be able to do a
deep dive from there on what kind of

584
00:20:29,639 –> 00:20:35,330
[mark_chamberlain]: ininuuity and if we focus on the
only decumulation then we need to do a

585
00:20:35,390 –> 00:20:40,619
[mark_chamberlain]: deep dive on spes versus riders versus
you know the various ways of generating lifetime

586
00:20:40,699 –> 00:20:45,549
[mark_chamberlain]: income so there is no answer to
the question of you know how do we

587
00:20:45,609 –> 00:20:50,921
[mark_chamberlain]: come up with a one size fits
all solution because it’s much too complicated for

588
00:20:50,961 –> 00:20:51,101
[mark_chamberlain]: that

589
00:20:52,189 –> 00:20:56,115
[bruno_caron]: and that makes perfect sense in terms
of trade off i love the way you

590
00:20:56,195 –> 00:21:00,743
[bruno_caron]: put it in terms of you know
there is no right solution there’s no one

591
00:21:01,825 –> 00:21:06,392
[bruno_caron]: one right answer because quite frankly if
there was we wouldn’t be talking about it

592
00:21:06,432 –> 00:21:06,773
[bruno_caron]: right now

593
00:21:07,553 –> 00:21:07,573
[mark_chamberlain]: m

594
00:21:07,554 –> 00:21:14,546
[bruno_caron]: and my question is have you looked
at or found a way to obviously there’s

595
00:21:14,606 –> 00:21:19,073
[bruno_caron]: a classical measure of you know assets
on their management x per cent of your

596
00:21:19,133 –> 00:21:24,462
[bruno_caron]: your portfolio should be you know allocated
one way one way or the other but

597
00:21:24,743 –> 00:21:30,753
[bruno_caron]: is there a way to to do
that exact same reasoning that exactly framework with

598
00:21:30,913 –> 00:21:32,776
[bruno_caron]: income and how much income

599
00:21:33,905 –> 00:21:33,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:21:34,219 –> 00:21:36,582
[bruno_caron]: on you know the set of all
of your

601
00:21:36,935 –> 00:21:36,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

602
00:21:36,963 –> 00:21:42,233
[bruno_caron]: your your assets would act or your
portfolio would would generate

603
00:21:44,132 –> 00:21:44,274
[mark_chamberlain]: what

604
00:21:44,295 –> 00:21:47,180
[michelle_richter]: i think there are lots of ways
to do that and it’s always going to

605
00:21:47,220 –> 00:21:49,564
[michelle_richter]: be a question and mark you should
disagree

606
00:21:49,166 –> 00:21:49,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

607
00:21:49,624 –> 00:21:54,633
[michelle_richter]: with me if this is not your
opinion but you know mark always tells me

608
00:21:54,833 –> 00:21:57,558
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary is t process right so

609
00:21:57,783 –> 00:21:57,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

610
00:21:57,958 –> 00:22:00,002
[michelle_richter]: there’s a million ways that you can

611
00:22:00,128 –> 00:22:00,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

612
00:22:00,522 –> 00:22:01,164
[michelle_richter]: do exactly

613
00:22:01,145 –> 00:22:01,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

614
00:22:01,204 –> 00:22:01,985
[michelle_richter]: what you’re describing

615
00:22:01,707 –> 00:22:01,728
[bruno_caron]: m

616
00:22:01,917 –> 00:22:01,999
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

617
00:22:02,025 –> 00:22:04,068
[michelle_richter]: brune and as long as when you’re

618
00:22:03,923 –> 00:22:04,105
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

619
00:22:04,128 –> 00:22:05,651
[michelle_richter]: acting in a futiary capacity

620
00:22:05,606 –> 00:22:05,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

621
00:22:05,771 –> 00:22:10,242
[michelle_richter]: as long as you document how you
did it and you did it you’re in

622
00:22:10,302 –> 00:22:10,763
[michelle_richter]: good hands

623
00:22:13,285 –> 00:22:17,898
[mark_chamberlain]: i spent the last ten years working
on a think tank project that i started

624
00:22:17,955 –> 00:22:18,178
[michelle_richter]: yeah

625
00:22:17,978 –> 00:22:22,485
[mark_chamberlain]: in two thousand ten and the objective
was to try and get l d to

626
00:22:22,545 –> 00:22:26,585
[mark_chamberlain]: translate to individuals and l d i
not in the way that the u k

627
00:22:26,865 –> 00:22:30,790
[mark_chamberlain]: used leverage to try and come up
with you now meeting a funding obligation

628
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:31,021
[bruno_caron]: oh

629
00:22:31,226 –> 00:22:31,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: mark

630
00:22:31,891 –> 00:22:31,931
[mark_chamberlain]: l

631
00:22:31,930 –> 00:22:32,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: can

632
00:22:31,971 –> 00:22:31,991
[mark_chamberlain]: d

633
00:22:32,071 –> 00:22:34,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: you define l d i for the
broader audience

634
00:22:33,948 –> 00:22:34,608
[bruno_caron]: okay

635
00:22:35,433 –> 00:22:36,896
[mark_chamberlain]: liability driven investing

636
00:22:36,425 –> 00:22:36,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

637
00:22:36,888 –> 00:22:37,172
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:22:38,158 –> 00:22:39,841
[mark_chamberlain]: is what the acronym stands for and

639
00:22:40,376 –> 00:22:40,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

640
00:22:40,542 –> 00:22:41,083
[mark_chamberlain]: it’s something

641
00:22:40,878 –> 00:22:41,101
[bruno_caron]: may

642
00:22:41,163 –> 00:22:42,545
[mark_chamberlain]: that the corporate

643
00:22:42,206 –> 00:22:42,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

644
00:22:42,585 –> 00:22:44,048
[mark_chamberlain]: defined benefit plans moved

645
00:22:44,045 –> 00:22:44,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

646
00:22:44,128 –> 00:22:47,293
[mark_chamberlain]: to following basically the moment and really

647
00:22:47,075 –> 00:22:47,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:22:47,353 –> 00:22:52,362
[mark_chamberlain]: increased after the pension protection act in
two thousand six where there was a c

649
00:22:52,582 –> 00:22:52,983
[mark_chamberlain]: change

650
00:22:53,105 –> 00:22:53,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

651
00:22:53,243 –> 00:22:58,231
[mark_chamberlain]: in the funding ratio calculations for d
b plants they could no longer use

652
00:22:58,565 –> 00:22:58,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

653
00:22:58,592 –> 00:23:06,005
[mark_chamberlain]: one discount rate to figure out what
whether they were funded or not and the

654
00:23:06,065 –> 00:23:07,287
[mark_chamberlain]: new rules said that for

655
00:23:07,488 –> 00:23:09,228
[bruno_caron]: yeah

656
00:23:07,928 –> 00:23:08,990
[mark_chamberlain]: those assets that

657
00:23:08,945 –> 00:23:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

658
00:23:09,170 –> 00:23:13,077
[mark_chamberlain]: were the essential assets of the plan
to be fully

659
00:23:13,095 –> 00:23:13,338
[michelle_richter]: yes

660
00:23:13,177 –> 00:23:19,124
[mark_chamberlain]: funded meaning for those retires that are
already in retire that part of the plan

661
00:23:19,204 –> 00:23:21,427
[mark_chamberlain]: had to be fully funded to be
secure

662
00:23:21,348 –> 00:23:22,158
[bruno_caron]: yeah

663
00:23:22,027 –> 00:23:23,429
[mark_chamberlain]: so they said those assets

664
00:23:23,465 –> 00:23:23,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

665
00:23:23,669 –> 00:23:24,530
[mark_chamberlain]: have to use a discount

666
00:23:24,386 –> 00:23:24,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

667
00:23:24,610 –> 00:23:29,267
[mark_chamberlain]: rate that’s basically a risk free rate
a short term you know investment grade bond

668
00:23:29,347 –> 00:23:33,774
[mark_chamberlain]: rate where as he for the employes
that are retiring down the road twenty thirty

669
00:23:33,794 –> 00:23:39,004
[mark_chamberlain]: years out they could use a longer
duration interest rate calculation so they can okay

670
00:23:39,647 –> 00:23:44,786
[mark_chamberlain]: we call a three bucket approach they
segmented the assets of the plan based on

671
00:23:45,026 –> 00:23:51,276
[mark_chamberlain]: how risky the retirement funding need was
and so it’s really an asset liability matching

672
00:23:51,637 –> 00:23:52,358
[mark_chamberlain]: kind of a formula

673
00:23:52,618 –> 00:23:52,638
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

674
00:23:53,179 –> 00:23:55,583
[mark_chamberlain]: so we said why couldn’t that apply
to individuals

675
00:23:56,096 –> 00:23:56,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

676
00:23:56,124 –> 00:24:01,758
[mark_chamberlain]: because if you try and make the
translation in terms of utility what onamous call

677
00:24:02,483 –> 00:24:03,388
[mark_chamberlain]: what’s the utility

678
00:24:03,035 –> 00:24:03,056
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:24:03,489 –> 00:24:03,549
[mark_chamberlain]: of

680
00:24:03,618 –> 00:24:03,881
[bruno_caron]: oh

681
00:24:03,871 –> 00:24:03,971
[mark_chamberlain]: the

682
00:24:03,905 –> 00:24:03,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:24:04,012 –> 00:24:10,317
[mark_chamberlain]: position for that individual the utility of
the essential expenses their food shelter

684
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:10,101
[michelle_richter]: a

685
00:24:10,397 –> 00:24:16,823
[mark_chamberlain]: and health insurance is different than their
utility for travel and vacation expenses much less

686
00:24:16,903 –> 00:24:20,750
[mark_chamberlain]: essential and so lot of lot of
thinkers in the industry have come up with

687
00:24:20,850 –> 00:24:21,972
[mark_chamberlain]: you know a way of saying let’s

688
00:24:21,894 –> 00:24:21,915
[michelle_richter]: m

689
00:24:22,853 –> 00:24:26,059
[mark_chamberlain]: let’s they’ve use different terms for it
but

690
00:24:26,096 –> 00:24:26,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

691
00:24:27,401 –> 00:24:28,784
[mark_chamberlain]: they basically said let’s about

692
00:24:28,766 –> 00:24:30,386
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

693
00:24:28,945 –> 00:24:30,169
[mark_chamberlain]: using annuities for

694
00:24:30,896 –> 00:24:31,161
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

695
00:24:31,614 –> 00:24:35,764
[mark_chamberlain]: most necessary part of a person’s balance
sheet in retirement

696
00:24:35,295 –> 00:24:35,315
[michelle_richter]: m

697
00:24:35,705 –> 00:24:35,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

698
00:24:36,385 –> 00:24:41,155
[mark_chamberlain]: and get those things funded in a
secure way and we could think about using

699
00:24:41,576 –> 00:24:46,464
[mark_chamberlain]: something that can have more variability for
the expenses that more discretionary

700
00:24:46,290 –> 00:24:46,310
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

701
00:24:47,145 –> 00:24:48,127
[mark_chamberlain]: and we think that applies

702
00:24:47,937 –> 00:24:47,958
[bruno_caron]: m

703
00:24:48,568 –> 00:24:49,449
[mark_chamberlain]: almost on a one to

704
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:49,460
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

705
00:24:49,549 –> 00:24:56,437
[mark_chamberlain]: one basis just based on economics one
ant and so the idea that corporate pension

706
00:24:56,538 –> 00:25:02,596
[mark_chamberlain]: plans we’re forced to move down this
road in two thousand six but in the

707
00:25:02,956 –> 00:25:03,418
[mark_chamberlain]: personal

708
00:25:03,215 –> 00:25:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

709
00:25:03,538 –> 00:25:05,985
[mark_chamberlain]: financial planning world we’re still

710
00:25:06,116 –> 00:25:06,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

711
00:25:06,126 –> 00:25:13,029
[mark_chamberlain]: treating individuals in most software like old
defined benefit plants and we use one discount

712
00:25:13,089 –> 00:25:17,496
[mark_chamberlain]: rate which is usually based on i
didn’t expect to return from risk assets to

713
00:25:17,536 –> 00:25:22,927
[mark_chamberlain]: figure out whether somebody’s fully funded so
i record mentation is that the planning shift

714
00:25:23,288 –> 00:25:26,255
[mark_chamberlain]: to a discussion with participants about let’s
let’s

715
00:25:26,130 –> 00:25:26,150
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

716
00:25:26,515 –> 00:25:28,641
[mark_chamberlain]: have you sit down and figure out
with your spouse

717
00:25:28,826 –> 00:25:30,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

718
00:25:29,523 –> 00:25:30,889
[mark_chamberlain]: what your essential expenses

719
00:25:30,836 –> 00:25:31,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

720
00:25:31,010 –> 00:25:36,425
[mark_chamberlain]: are put those in the bucket number
one bucket number two could be the ones

721
00:25:36,465 –> 00:25:39,508
[mark_chamberlain]: that follow after that in terms of
need and then bucket number three could be

722
00:25:40,049 –> 00:25:43,072
[mark_chamberlain]: you know your your less essential or
your optional expenses

723
00:25:42,618 –> 00:25:42,879
[bruno_caron]: yeah

724
00:25:43,613 –> 00:25:46,341
[mark_chamberlain]: you could think about finding them differently
but for the first bucket

725
00:25:47,028 –> 00:25:47,231
[bruno_caron]: oh

726
00:25:47,134 –> 00:25:48,508
[mark_chamberlain]: should really consider an annuity

727
00:25:49,791 –> 00:25:52,736
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m michel a mark i want to
jump in here so really interesting topic i

728
00:25:53,377 –> 00:25:57,123
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: just to pick it back i want
you just said mark so m the average

729
00:25:57,343 –> 00:26:02,933
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: plan you know participant in particular that
employ that’s maybe approaching retirement this might be

730
00:26:03,053 –> 00:26:07,160
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: like mind blowing concept re thinking how
they’re going to contribute

731
00:26:07,145 –> 00:26:07,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

732
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:11,747
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: into their plan so from an education
perspective in particular bringing up the word annuity

733
00:26:13,398 –> 00:26:13,660
[bruno_caron]: oh

734
00:26:13,890 –> 00:26:16,334
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: now no verb michelle um but bringing
up

735
00:26:16,316 –> 00:26:16,583
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:26:16,374 –> 00:26:17,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the word annuity

737
00:26:17,325 –> 00:26:17,668
[michelle_richter]: oh

738
00:26:17,576 –> 00:26:18,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: um you know

739
00:26:18,606 –> 00:26:18,808
[michelle_richter]: yeah

740
00:26:19,139 –> 00:26:23,967
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: who’s responsible for that education getting that
plan participant at the sponsor is at the

741
00:26:24,007 –> 00:26:26,815
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: provider combination of both and then i
have follow up question to that

742
00:26:29,517 –> 00:26:33,724
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s going to be everybody
you know so it’s all

743
00:26:33,686 –> 00:26:33,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

744
00:26:33,784 –> 00:26:36,629
[michelle_richter]: of the above and more it’s going
to take

745
00:26:36,506 –> 00:26:37,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

746
00:26:36,769 –> 00:26:42,258
[michelle_richter]: industry organizations like the irikis has begun
working on consumer

747
00:26:42,198 –> 00:26:42,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

748
00:26:42,318 –> 00:26:42,639
[michelle_richter]: facing

749
00:26:42,515 –> 00:26:42,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

750
00:26:42,719 –> 00:26:44,582
[michelle_richter]: materials there is a chance

751
00:26:44,456 –> 00:26:45,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

752
00:26:44,722 –> 00:26:45,924
[michelle_richter]: we may do so together

753
00:26:45,918 –> 00:26:45,938
[bruno_caron]: o

754
00:26:46,064 –> 00:26:46,725
[michelle_richter]: with the alliance

755
00:26:46,646 –> 00:26:47,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

756
00:26:46,805 –> 00:26:50,652
[michelle_richter]: for lifetime income so i think not
only

757
00:26:50,615 –> 00:26:51,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

758
00:26:51,133 –> 00:26:56,542
[michelle_richter]: the categories in cluded are those responsible
for education but more broadly

759
00:26:56,598 –> 00:26:57,288
[bruno_caron]: yeah

760
00:26:56,742 –> 00:26:57,423
[michelle_richter]: the industry

761
00:26:57,162 –> 00:26:57,491
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: did you

762
00:26:58,184 –> 00:27:02,612
[michelle_richter]: needs through dispassionate third party kind of
organizations

763
00:27:01,796 –> 00:27:01,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

764
00:27:03,153 –> 00:27:09,168
[michelle_richter]: as well as through the individual product
providers as well as through record keepers through

765
00:27:09,208 –> 00:27:16,112
[michelle_richter]: the employer themselves the employer is the
person that the plan participant or the entity

766
00:27:16,172 –> 00:27:19,137
[michelle_richter]: that the person the participant feels they
can trust

767
00:27:19,438 –> 00:27:19,950
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

768
00:27:20,079 –> 00:27:23,645
[michelle_richter]: and rightly so so the materials have
to get you

769
00:27:24,236 –> 00:27:24,561
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

770
00:27:24,546 –> 00:27:26,610
[michelle_richter]: playin sponsors but they also have to
get

771
00:27:26,696 –> 00:27:26,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

772
00:27:27,251 –> 00:27:30,336
[michelle_richter]: from there to to the end participants
and that’s never

773
00:27:30,086 –> 00:27:30,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:27:30,436 –> 00:27:30,917
[michelle_richter]: an easy

775
00:27:32,216 –> 00:27:32,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

776
00:27:32,960 –> 00:27:33,461
[michelle_richter]: task to

777
00:27:33,446 –> 00:27:34,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

778
00:27:33,561 –> 00:27:38,069
[michelle_richter]: accomplish because most men gins choose not
to engage with their plans

779
00:27:38,556 –> 00:27:39,030
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

780
00:27:38,830 –> 00:27:39,051
[michelle_richter]: um

781
00:27:39,305 –> 00:27:39,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

782
00:27:39,692 –> 00:27:41,134
[michelle_richter]: and that’s pretty unfortunate

783
00:27:41,298 –> 00:27:41,521
[bruno_caron]: oh

784
00:27:41,334 –> 00:27:44,800
[michelle_richter]: but they choose not to write up
until the point of retirement and then they

785
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:51,553
[michelle_richter]: experience overwhelm or the perience shame for
not having saved enough and at that point

786
00:27:52,275 –> 00:27:53,918
[michelle_richter]: there’s you know a real challenge

787
00:27:53,816 –> 00:27:54,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:27:54,118 –> 00:27:54,299
[michelle_richter]: to

789
00:27:54,716 –> 00:27:54,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

790
00:27:55,121 –> 00:27:56,383
[michelle_richter]: help them you know when it’s

791
00:27:56,880 –> 00:27:57,660
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

792
00:27:57,185 –> 00:27:57,807
[michelle_richter]: on that last

793
00:27:57,746 –> 00:27:58,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

794
00:27:57,887 –> 00:27:58,930
[michelle_richter]: day before they retire

795
00:27:58,910 –> 00:27:59,072
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

796
00:27:59,030 –> 00:28:00,413
[michelle_richter]: you know it’s much better if

797
00:28:00,671 –> 00:28:00,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

798
00:28:00,895 –> 00:28:01,356
[michelle_richter]: a financial

799
00:28:01,038 –> 00:28:01,340
[bruno_caron]: oh

800
00:28:01,286 –> 00:28:01,572
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:28:01,436 –> 00:28:04,263
[michelle_richter]: professional is in front of that person
sooner than that

802
00:28:04,470 –> 00:28:06,463
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: they kind of set it on auto
pilot so

803
00:28:07,575 –> 00:28:07,818
[michelle_richter]: yeah

804
00:28:07,641 –> 00:28:13,386
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: next question is am i hearing maybe
a new career path or even a talent

805
00:28:13,446 –> 00:28:19,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: opportunity for agents um so the plan
provider i’m just the practicality of how an

806
00:28:19,075 –> 00:28:22,841
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: annuity is sold you know who has
to sign the apple how does this happen

807
00:28:23,002 –> 00:28:23,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so i’m

808
00:28:23,225 –> 00:28:23,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

809
00:28:23,262 –> 00:28:28,230
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thinking through where does the role of
the agent plan is the provider hiring agents

810
00:28:28,270 –> 00:28:28,931
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: as consultants

811
00:28:29,165 –> 00:28:29,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:28:29,172 –> 00:28:32,397
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: or or agents going to have employee
opportunities in within plan

813
00:28:32,285 –> 00:28:32,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

814
00:28:32,457 –> 00:28:35,563
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: providers going forward can you speak a
little bit about how you in vision

815
00:28:35,655 –> 00:28:36,804
[michelle_richter]: yeah

816
00:28:35,883 –> 00:28:37,647
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i know we don’t know exactly but
how this

817
00:28:37,599 –> 00:28:37,782
[michelle_richter]: yeah

818
00:28:37,707 –> 00:28:38,148
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: all works

819
00:28:40,106 –> 00:28:40,266
[michelle_richter]: well

820
00:28:40,320 –> 00:28:41,130
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

821
00:28:40,627 –> 00:28:41,248
[michelle_richter]: i’m not sure

822
00:28:41,160 –> 00:28:41,760
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

823
00:28:41,368 –> 00:28:43,652
[michelle_richter]: exactly i just know it’s going a
happen

824
00:28:43,663 –> 00:28:43,864
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

825
00:28:44,093 –> 00:28:47,318
[michelle_richter]: so i think people should prepare for
the fact that it’s going to

826
00:28:47,298 –> 00:28:47,539
[bruno_caron]: oh

827
00:28:47,378 –> 00:28:47,659
[michelle_richter]: happen

828
00:28:47,636 –> 00:28:47,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

829
00:28:48,821 –> 00:28:49,722
[michelle_richter]: and my hope is

830
00:28:49,696 –> 00:28:49,837
[bruno_caron]: yeah

831
00:28:49,822 –> 00:28:52,868
[michelle_richter]: that my hope is that other

832
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:52,957
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

833
00:28:52,948 –> 00:28:55,312
[michelle_richter]: members of the insurance community

834
00:28:55,424 –> 00:28:56,144
[paul_tyler]: oh

835
00:28:55,452 –> 00:28:55,612
[michelle_richter]: make

836
00:28:55,518 –> 00:28:55,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

837
00:28:55,713 –> 00:28:56,554
[michelle_richter]: the decision to

838
00:28:56,628 –> 00:28:56,890
[bruno_caron]: oh

839
00:28:56,634 –> 00:29:01,242
[michelle_richter]: become insurance advisors where advisors are

840
00:29:01,196 –> 00:29:01,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

841
00:29:01,302 –> 00:29:04,335
[michelle_richter]: verb sellers yeah

842
00:29:04,078 –> 00:29:04,279
[paul_tyler]: verb

843
00:29:04,367 –> 00:29:04,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

844
00:29:04,379 –> 00:29:04,741
[paul_tyler]: sellers

845
00:29:04,508 –> 00:29:05,489
[ramsey_d_smith]: can you hang that shingle

846
00:29:05,284 –> 00:29:05,304
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

847
00:29:05,328 –> 00:29:05,836
[bruno_caron]: uh

848
00:29:05,569 –> 00:29:06,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: now i mean it’s it’s

849
00:29:06,427 –> 00:29:06,468
[bruno_caron]: uh

850
00:29:06,551 –> 00:29:08,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very so the use case

851
00:29:08,294 –> 00:29:08,559
[paul_tyler]: oh

852
00:29:08,554 –> 00:29:14,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: is very clear in a world where
by the way tis a great questions like

853
00:29:14,358 –> 00:29:14,581
[bruno_caron]: yeah

854
00:29:14,564 –> 00:29:15,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: really getting right the heart

855
00:29:15,566 –> 00:29:15,730
[michelle_richter]: yeah

856
00:29:15,646 –> 00:29:16,227
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the matter there

857
00:29:16,683 –> 00:29:17,185
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thanks ramsey

858
00:29:17,489 –> 00:29:22,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: but so it’s a it’s a business
opportunity is a business opportunity for r as

859
00:29:22,698 –> 00:29:24,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: in this in the d c space
check

860
00:29:24,888 –> 00:29:25,089
[bruno_caron]: oh

861
00:29:25,342 –> 00:29:31,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there is this open knee for
open need for insurance experts in that space

862
00:29:31,795 –> 00:29:39,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: check right but it’s not clear to
me that there’s a there’s there’s a designation

863
00:29:39,728 –> 00:29:43,653
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there’s a what is the you
put up your shingle now what does that

864
00:29:43,713 –> 00:29:44,253
[ramsey_d_smith]: shingle say

865
00:29:44,488 –> 00:29:44,670
[michelle_richter]: yeah

866
00:29:44,994 –> 00:29:45,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

867
00:29:46,115 –> 00:29:47,277
[michelle_richter]: great question it’s

868
00:29:47,186 –> 00:29:48,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

869
00:29:47,337 –> 00:29:51,464
[michelle_richter]: not clear to me either i just
went and got my a if from f

870
00:29:51,565 –> 00:29:54,549
[michelle_richter]: i three sixty so that i could
be an accredited investment

871
00:29:54,326 –> 00:29:54,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

872
00:29:54,590 –> 00:29:55,150
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

873
00:29:55,595 –> 00:29:55,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

874
00:29:56,052 –> 00:30:01,942
[michelle_richter]: even though what i focus on not
so much investments right it’s it’s de cumulation

875
00:30:01,385 –> 00:30:01,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

876
00:30:02,563 –> 00:30:08,773
[michelle_richter]: but but you know so so my
thinking is i went and got my insurance

877
00:30:08,873 –> 00:30:09,314
[michelle_richter]: license

878
00:30:09,386 –> 00:30:09,589
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

879
00:30:09,394 –> 00:30:14,245
[michelle_richter]: fret and i got my have my
r i a set up i have a

880
00:30:14,305 –> 00:30:21,195
[michelle_richter]: sixty five and i am now i
have the a i f so so my

881
00:30:21,275 –> 00:30:25,297
[michelle_richter]: thinking is i’m covered under the umbrella
of those

882
00:30:25,142 –> 00:30:25,163
[mark_chamberlain]: m

883
00:30:25,357 –> 00:30:25,678
[michelle_richter]: things

884
00:30:25,736 –> 00:30:25,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

885
00:30:25,878 –> 00:30:32,449
[michelle_richter]: but i have no clarity whatsoever as
to legally how this domain develops i know

886
00:30:32,670 –> 00:30:33,271
[michelle_richter]: only that

887
00:30:33,464 –> 00:30:33,624
[paul_tyler]: yeah

888
00:30:33,812 –> 00:30:34,593
[michelle_richter]: experts is

889
00:30:34,649 –> 00:30:34,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

890
00:30:34,673 –> 00:30:39,287
[michelle_richter]: needed around inuits delivered to plan advisors

891
00:30:39,566 –> 00:30:39,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

892
00:30:39,567 –> 00:30:42,531
[michelle_richter]: so one of those is going to
be what qualifies

893
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:43,556
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

894
00:30:43,132 –> 00:30:44,854
[michelle_richter]: mark and me to be able to
do that

895
00:30:44,966 –> 00:30:44,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

896
00:30:45,114 –> 00:30:52,306
[paul_tyler]: well interesting discussion now i think if
i come from the institutional side to say

897
00:30:52,807 –> 00:30:58,061
[paul_tyler]: know ramsey i expect this advisor to
be an r a seems like a very

898
00:30:58,182 –> 00:31:04,999
[paul_tyler]: logical response however you know michelle my
experience has been you know

899
00:31:05,156 –> 00:31:05,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

900
00:31:05,800 –> 00:31:07,641
[paul_tyler]: there’s not such there’s no such thing
as

901
00:31:07,595 –> 00:31:07,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

902
00:31:07,701 –> 00:31:09,203
[paul_tyler]: a good compensation

903
00:31:10,235 –> 00:31:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

904
00:31:10,354 –> 00:31:13,559
[paul_tyler]: perfect compensation planet really what i do
see is that

905
00:31:13,475 –> 00:31:13,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

906
00:31:13,599 –> 00:31:16,083
[paul_tyler]: the compensation has got to match up
with the results

907
00:31:16,016 –> 00:31:16,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

908
00:31:17,205 –> 00:31:18,608
[paul_tyler]: you want um

909
00:31:19,387 –> 00:31:19,689
[michelle_richter]: yes

910
00:31:20,150 –> 00:31:20,711
[paul_tyler]: you know if you think

911
00:31:20,726 –> 00:31:20,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:31:20,771 –> 00:31:25,197
[paul_tyler]: of these companies as as a pyramid
you got some very high

913
00:31:25,256 –> 00:31:25,679
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

914
00:31:25,357 –> 00:31:31,423
[paul_tyler]: earners with probably very large for once
balances at the very top economically a

915
00:31:32,645 –> 00:31:32,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:31:32,724 –> 00:31:33,625
[paul_tyler]: a fiduciary

917
00:31:33,056 –> 00:31:33,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

918
00:31:33,845 –> 00:31:38,369
[paul_tyler]: like uh annual contract probably makes sense
you know it’s it’s you know i’ve got

919
00:31:38,449 –> 00:31:43,493
[paul_tyler]: high end services ramsey remember co i
think you know

920
00:31:45,436 –> 00:31:45,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were great

921
00:31:45,734 –> 00:31:50,318
[paul_tyler]: i’ve lost lost track of this service
great service if you happen to be have

922
00:31:50,619 –> 00:31:52,921
[paul_tyler]: an v p title now challenge s
you go

923
00:31:52,973 –> 00:31:53,196
[mark_chamberlain]: uh

924
00:31:52,981 –> 00:32:01,368
[paul_tyler]: down down the pyramid ah they mean
these people be service michelle if if

925
00:32:01,835 –> 00:32:01,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

926
00:32:02,449 –> 00:32:06,915
[paul_tyler]: you know they’re only earning two percent
off of a twenty five thousand dollars throwing

927
00:32:07,176 –> 00:32:07,517
[paul_tyler]: balance

928
00:32:07,406 –> 00:32:07,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

929
00:32:07,597 –> 00:32:08,681
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s the answer there

930
00:32:08,756 –> 00:32:08,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

931
00:32:09,216 –> 00:32:11,340
[michelle_richter]: well the answer is

932
00:32:11,495 –> 00:32:11,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

933
00:32:11,501 –> 00:32:14,850
[michelle_richter]: not a um it’s not

934
00:32:15,146 –> 00:32:15,388
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

935
00:32:15,695 –> 00:32:15,876
[michelle_richter]: um

936
00:32:16,166 –> 00:32:16,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

937
00:32:16,257 –> 00:32:22,135
[michelle_richter]: in my view so you know i
or at least a um is to me

938
00:32:22,436 –> 00:32:28,446
[michelle_richter]: not my preferred building methodology for the
wealth management domain i do think it’s appropriate

939
00:32:28,486 –> 00:32:32,152
[michelle_richter]: for the asset management domain but that’s
going to get us off on a whole

940
00:32:32,212 –> 00:32:32,372
[michelle_richter]: other

941
00:32:32,256 –> 00:32:32,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

942
00:32:32,492 –> 00:32:35,678
[michelle_richter]: track and i still have it i
a tribe to deliver so

943
00:32:35,906 –> 00:32:35,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

944
00:32:36,419 –> 00:32:37,160
[michelle_richter]: um you know

945
00:32:37,343 –> 00:32:38,003
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

946
00:32:37,441 –> 00:32:37,541
[michelle_richter]: but

947
00:32:37,835 –> 00:32:37,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

948
00:32:37,941 –> 00:32:38,282
[michelle_richter]: it does

949
00:32:38,389 –> 00:32:38,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

950
00:32:38,402 –> 00:32:43,170
[michelle_richter]: tie into what i want to talk
about which is the predominance of a um

951
00:32:43,330 –> 00:32:51,170
[michelle_richter]: as a building method it does cause
distortion in thinking that i’m going to elucidate

952
00:32:51,691 –> 00:32:54,741
[michelle_richter]: pretty deeply should i go for it

953
00:32:55,319 –> 00:32:55,861
[ramsey_d_smith]: rock and roll

954
00:32:57,155 –> 00:33:03,385
[michelle_richter]: okay um this you all are get
very excited right now because i’m about to

955
00:33:03,906 –> 00:33:12,404
[michelle_richter]: go bananas and i am going to
issue called arms i’m looking for members of

956
00:33:12,785 –> 00:33:13,607
[michelle_richter]: the society

957
00:33:13,145 –> 00:33:13,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:33:13,647 –> 00:33:21,652
[michelle_richter]: of actuaries nata i r i and
any other industry group that you can think

959
00:33:21,772 –> 00:33:28,443
[michelle_richter]: of that might find this topic of
concern i am about to make a big

960
00:33:28,543 –> 00:33:34,839
[michelle_richter]: bold assert and which i will back
up with three less big assertions so big

961
00:33:34,940 –> 00:33:43,415
[michelle_richter]: bold assertion number one is that non
codification of verb sales and insurance means that

962
00:33:43,595 –> 00:33:46,740
[michelle_richter]: intellectual property cannot have value

963
00:33:46,526 –> 00:33:47,576
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

964
00:33:46,840 –> 00:33:52,992
[michelle_richter]: and insurance i g i will defend
why this is true with the following three

965
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,653
[michelle_richter]: assertions

966
00:33:53,585 –> 00:33:53,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

967
00:33:54,955 –> 00:34:00,785
[michelle_richter]: mark this moment in the podcast so
that you can tag the people that you

968
00:34:00,865 –> 00:34:04,271
[michelle_richter]: know from the industry organizations i just
mentioned

969
00:34:04,406 –> 00:34:04,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

970
00:34:04,772 –> 00:34:07,609
[michelle_richter]: and tell them when to start listening
it’s right here

971
00:34:07,463 –> 00:34:07,725
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

972
00:34:08,275 –> 00:34:14,826
[michelle_richter]: a non codification of verb sales and
insurance means i p can’t have value why

973
00:34:15,807 –> 00:34:22,221
[michelle_richter]: well the above mentioned fact is true
because of the intersection between how products

974
00:34:22,136 –> 00:34:22,378
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

975
00:34:22,642 –> 00:34:29,909
[michelle_richter]: sell and how trademark law works i
will explain further in a moment sertion number

976
00:34:29,989 –> 00:34:37,563
[michelle_richter]: three is that intellectual property having value
is fundamental to the functioning of a capitalistic

977
00:34:37,703 –> 00:34:48,360
[michelle_richter]: system assertion number four in a deutalized
world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically

978
00:34:48,481 –> 00:34:57,335
[michelle_richter]: disintegrated from distribution i p can only
come to have value by codifying insurance advisement

979
00:34:57,896 –> 00:35:06,339
[michelle_richter]: as a scalable overseeable nationally regulated discipline
so now i move to proving assertion number

980
00:35:06,539 –> 00:35:08,702
[michelle_richter]: one i p has no value in
my

981
00:35:08,756 –> 00:35:09,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

982
00:35:08,803 –> 00:35:15,634
[michelle_richter]: domain by proving assertions to through four
starting with assertion two part one how to

983
00:35:15,674 –> 00:35:20,671
[michelle_richter]: product sell to understand this we need
first to define the word product and then

984
00:35:20,711 –> 00:35:28,095
[michelle_richter]: the word sell products are nounce in
the context of insurance and financial services products

985
00:35:28,296 –> 00:35:38,092
[michelle_richter]: are issuable containers and their distribution is
highly regulated products are issuable legale contracts within

986
00:35:38,272 –> 00:35:40,936
[michelle_richter]: which intellectual property can be imbedded

987
00:35:41,156 –> 00:35:42,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

988
00:35:41,678 –> 00:35:42,619
[michelle_richter]: and in exchange

989
00:35:42,146 –> 00:35:42,367
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

990
00:35:42,719 –> 00:35:50,633
[michelle_richter]: for the distribution of which compensation can
be paid to a financial professional in respect

991
00:35:50,853 –> 00:35:58,727
[michelle_richter]: of either but never concurrently a or
b a is from inside the noun in

992
00:35:58,847 –> 00:36:03,958
[michelle_richter]: direct respect to sale thereof this refers
to agency and brokerage

993
00:36:04,590 –> 00:36:04,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: her

994
00:36:04,780 –> 00:36:10,870
[michelle_richter]: where as b is charged upon the
a u a or a um there formed

995
00:36:11,411 –> 00:36:12,072
[michelle_richter]: following a

996
00:36:12,056 –> 00:36:12,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

997
00:36:12,192 –> 00:36:18,313
[michelle_richter]: products introduction to an advised portfolio thus
b refers to the r i a channel

998
00:36:19,465 –> 00:36:21,789
[michelle_richter]: now that we know what product means
we move on to sell

999
00:36:21,956 –> 00:36:22,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:36:22,791 –> 00:36:24,494
[michelle_richter]: sell means the exchange

1001
00:36:24,065 –> 00:36:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1002
00:36:24,654 –> 00:36:30,323
[michelle_richter]: of remuneration in direct respect to x
x is a verb in the r a

1003
00:36:30,444 –> 00:36:33,070
[michelle_richter]: channel and it’s a noun in the
agent

1004
00:36:33,019 –> 00:36:33,121
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1005
00:36:33,431 –> 00:36:42,196
[michelle_richter]: broker channels wholesalers are people who so
routinely sell holes that we can describe

1006
00:36:41,857 –> 00:36:41,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1007
00:36:42,256 –> 00:36:47,265
[michelle_richter]: their identity by adding an r to
the end of the verb that they retain

1008
00:36:47,405 –> 00:36:53,947
[michelle_richter]: we perform analogy runners routine ly run
we don’t call someone a runner who once

1009
00:36:54,027 –> 00:36:57,872
[michelle_richter]: ran across across the street so whole
sailors

1010
00:36:58,257 –> 00:36:58,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: now

1011
00:36:58,413 –> 00:37:04,720
[michelle_richter]: sell nouns holes are nouns the human
mind can’t conceive of the premise of a

1012
00:37:04,760 –> 00:37:12,125
[michelle_richter]: whole verb therefore whole sailors are people
who sell holes holes must be nouns and

1013
00:37:12,286 –> 00:37:17,717
[michelle_richter]: non sell only when they have a
whole sailor selling them whole sailors

1014
00:37:17,606 –> 00:37:17,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1015
00:37:17,837 –> 00:37:23,466
[michelle_richter]: work for either a non manufacturer or
a noun seller and organization that sells nouns

1016
00:37:23,907 –> 00:37:29,276
[michelle_richter]: will not switch witch now and it
has its whole sailers focused on selling unless

1017
00:37:29,376 –> 00:37:36,488
[michelle_richter]: the new non is more profitable than
is the incumbent now portfolio that’s the reason

1018
00:37:36,608 –> 00:37:43,700
[michelle_richter]: why a product concept cannot have value
because is valuable about the product the non

1019
00:37:44,381 –> 00:37:52,114
[michelle_richter]: is the sellers prior investment in manufacturing
and or wholesaling infrastructure not the clever intellectual

1020
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,165
[michelle_richter]: prof property that does not deliver a
higher

1021
00:37:55,136 –> 00:37:55,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1022
00:37:55,225 –> 00:38:02,041
[michelle_richter]: profit margin than the incumbent so that’s
the first half of assertion to it goes

1023
00:38:02,181 –> 00:38:04,525
[michelle_richter]: way quicker from here so stick with
me okay

1024
00:38:04,805 –> 00:38:04,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1025
00:38:05,046 –> 00:38:06,648
[michelle_richter]: it’s like lightning from here okay

1026
00:38:07,188 –> 00:38:07,289
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1027
00:38:07,971 –> 00:38:14,582
[michelle_richter]: the second half of assertion to is
about tree marking trademark trade marking and the

1028
00:38:14,642 –> 00:38:19,991
[michelle_richter]: application of trade marking is different for
a brand name than it is for intellectual

1029
00:38:20,051 –> 00:38:25,059
[michelle_richter]: property the how you defend a brand
name in court with a trademark it’s really

1030
00:38:25,139 –> 00:38:27,483
[michelle_richter]: easy but defending intellectual property

1031
00:38:27,581 –> 00:38:27,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1032
00:38:27,683 –> 00:38:33,092
[michelle_richter]: the trade mark has more challenge to
it in this case i’m talking about intellectual

1033
00:38:33,173 –> 00:38:41,244
[michelle_richter]: property protection uh it requires the defense
of a trademark requires the intellectual property to

1034
00:38:41,304 –> 00:38:50,117
[michelle_richter]: be now embedable whereas intellectual property that
is service marked requires the i p to

1035
00:38:50,197 –> 00:38:55,924
[michelle_richter]: be verb impedible if you google trademark
definition

1036
00:38:55,916 –> 00:38:57,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

1037
00:38:57,875 –> 00:39:00,419
[michelle_richter]: you see that when applied to intellectual

1038
00:39:00,326 –> 00:39:02,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1039
00:39:00,499 –> 00:39:03,404
[michelle_richter]: property defense as differs from brand defense

1040
00:39:03,596 –> 00:39:03,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1041
00:39:04,025 –> 00:39:09,013
[michelle_richter]: that the definition of this word requires
the ip owner to be

1042
00:39:08,975 –> 00:39:08,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1043
00:39:09,193 –> 00:39:17,085
[michelle_richter]: able to either manufacture or to sell
remember what sell means from the above the

1044
00:39:17,165 –> 00:39:18,126
[michelle_richter]: non right

1045
00:39:18,591 –> 00:39:18,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1046
00:39:18,746 –> 00:39:25,412
[michelle_richter]: so product concepts can’t have value because
of the intersection between how product sells and

1047
00:39:25,753 –> 00:39:33,632
[michelle_richter]: how trade mark law is applied okay
insurance is the liability or contra asset minimization

1048
00:39:33,732 –> 00:39:34,013
[michelle_richter]: field

1049
00:39:34,523 –> 00:39:34,788
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1050
00:39:34,745 –> 00:39:38,290
[michelle_richter]: what just stick with me on insurance

1051
00:39:38,396 –> 00:39:38,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1052
00:39:38,411 –> 00:39:40,434
[michelle_richter]: is about minimizing consumers

1053
00:39:40,226 –> 00:39:40,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1054
00:39:40,494 –> 00:39:42,758
[michelle_richter]: liabilities okay and i’m not going

1055
00:39:42,685 –> 00:39:42,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1056
00:39:42,778 –> 00:39:47,326
[michelle_richter]: to bring up the contraascit thing again
super complicated so i mean shorten it by

1057
00:39:47,426 –> 00:39:56,887
[michelle_richter]: saying liability minimization insurance advisor is not
a defined term financial advisor is a defined

1058
00:39:57,027 –> 00:39:58,909
[michelle_richter]: term and it means

1059
00:39:58,954 –> 00:39:59,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1060
00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:06,647
[michelle_richter]: person who holds the authority to sell
verbs this means person has an r a

1061
00:40:06,768 –> 00:40:14,685
[michelle_richter]: affiliation r i s sell verbs only
agents and brokers sell nouns only financial advisers

1062
00:40:14,826 –> 00:40:17,971
[michelle_richter]: provide ongoing asset maximization advising

1063
00:40:18,176 –> 00:40:18,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1064
00:40:18,532 –> 00:40:19,914
[michelle_richter]: and they frequently receive

1065
00:40:19,856 –> 00:40:20,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1066
00:40:19,994 –> 00:40:22,671
[michelle_richter]: thee compensation v a u m

1067
00:40:24,296 –> 00:40:24,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1068
00:40:24,379 –> 00:40:32,051
[michelle_richter]: this asset maximization advising is a service
p imbedded in services for example managed account

1069
00:40:32,212 –> 00:40:33,594
[michelle_richter]: services provided by

1070
00:40:33,626 –> 00:40:35,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1071
00:40:33,754 –> 00:40:38,442
[michelle_richter]: morning star ink are service markable thus
they have been

1072
00:40:38,413 –> 00:40:38,554
[ramsey_d_smith]: sir

1073
00:40:38,602 –> 00:40:46,092
[michelle_richter]: service marked not trade markable and not
trade marked because their verbs which are services

1074
00:40:46,613 –> 00:40:57,288
[michelle_richter]: not none absent codifying insurance advisement so
that insurance professionals can also sell herbs by

1075
00:40:57,368 –> 00:40:57,849
[michelle_richter]: which i am

1076
00:40:57,987 –> 00:40:58,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1077
00:40:57,989 –> 00:41:04,100
[michelle_richter]: saying absent popularizing ability approach like benefits
under advisement

1078
00:41:04,166 –> 00:41:04,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1079
00:41:04,701 –> 00:41:07,926
[michelle_richter]: or income under advisement there cannot

1080
00:41:07,856 –> 00:41:08,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1081
00:41:08,046 –> 00:41:12,514
[michelle_richter]: be valued to intellectual property in our
field because you cannot

1082
00:41:12,536 –> 00:41:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1083
00:41:12,594 –> 00:41:17,842
[michelle_richter]: defend it v s service mark because
there is no framework for scalablyselling services

1084
00:41:17,786 –> 00:41:17,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1085
00:41:17,963 –> 00:41:22,871
[michelle_richter]: in our domain and you can’t sell
it as a noun because an organization can

1086
00:41:23,011 –> 00:41:29,462
[michelle_richter]: only monetize a trade mark and insure
from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution and

1087
00:41:29,542 –> 00:41:35,412
[michelle_richter]: encompant only does this if the product
is more profitable than it’s existing portfolio that’s

1088
00:41:35,512 –> 00:41:36,033
[michelle_richter]: not likely

1089
00:41:35,831 –> 00:41:36,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1090
00:41:36,153 –> 00:41:39,398
[michelle_richter]: in today’s feconte its environment so again
because

1091
00:41:39,386 –> 00:41:40,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1092
00:41:39,458 –> 00:41:40,580
[michelle_richter]: my prior words are true

1093
00:41:41,006 –> 00:41:41,288
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1094
00:41:41,201 –> 00:41:42,884
[michelle_richter]: not having a scale able advisement

1095
00:41:42,902 –> 00:41:42,922
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1096
00:41:42,964 –> 00:41:44,647
[michelle_richter]: frame for liability reduction

1097
00:41:44,952 –> 00:41:44,972
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1098
00:41:45,088 –> 00:41:50,437
[michelle_richter]: means intellectual property that is service marked
in our field also cannot value because it

1099
00:41:50,477 –> 00:41:56,266
[michelle_richter]: cannot be sold so concludes my proof
of assertion to and i’ll move on to

1100
00:41:56,307 –> 00:42:01,316
[michelle_richter]: assertion three and less there are questions
of which i’m sure there are ready oh

1101
00:42:02,944 –> 00:42:04,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is a this is a complex

1102
00:42:04,127 –> 00:42:04,250
[michelle_richter]: ah

1103
00:42:04,446 –> 00:42:06,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: geometric proof you’re taking us through here

1104
00:42:07,475 –> 00:42:08,742
[michelle_richter]: it is i understand that

1105
00:42:08,714 –> 00:42:08,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: europe

1106
00:42:08,842 –> 00:42:10,129
[michelle_richter]: but i’m doing it for a reason

1107
00:42:10,430 –> 00:42:11,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re a mute paul

1108
00:42:11,487 –> 00:42:11,790
[michelle_richter]: i want

1109
00:42:13,257 –> 00:42:13,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1110
00:42:13,325 –> 00:42:18,053
[michelle_richter]: i want the industry organizations that are
or flagged to hear this

1111
00:42:18,446 –> 00:42:18,814
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1112
00:42:18,594 –> 00:42:20,898
[michelle_richter]: re play it they’re gonna have to
play it a lot of times

1113
00:42:20,834 –> 00:42:21,914
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1114
00:42:20,986 –> 00:42:21,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1115
00:42:21,018 –> 00:42:21,719
[michelle_richter]: to get the logic

1116
00:42:22,595 –> 00:42:22,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1117
00:42:22,861 –> 00:42:23,221
[michelle_richter]: and so

1118
00:42:23,156 –> 00:42:23,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1119
00:42:23,522 –> 00:42:24,504
[michelle_richter]: i’m going really

1120
00:42:24,505 –> 00:42:24,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1121
00:42:24,604 –> 00:42:25,786
[michelle_richter]: in depth in what the logic

1122
00:42:25,870 –> 00:42:25,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1123
00:42:25,906 –> 00:42:29,634
[michelle_richter]: is so that it can’t be said
she just at a high level

1124
00:42:29,585 –> 00:42:29,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1125
00:42:29,794 –> 00:42:32,079
[michelle_richter]: said you know something crazy and she’s
always saying

1126
00:42:32,000 –> 00:42:32,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1127
00:42:32,139 –> 00:42:33,602
[michelle_richter]: something crazy so i can just

1128
00:42:33,524 –> 00:42:33,727
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1129
00:42:33,722 –> 00:42:35,807
[michelle_richter]: kind of like whip it off you

1130
00:42:35,745 –> 00:42:35,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1131
00:42:35,847 –> 00:42:39,055
[michelle_richter]: know like i’m going deep into it
because my words are true

1132
00:42:39,014 –> 00:42:39,277
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1133
00:42:39,296 –> 00:42:42,243
[michelle_richter]: and they have implications to society more
broadly

1134
00:42:42,334 –> 00:42:44,898
[paul_tyler]: well yeah and i just a couple

1135
00:42:45,596 –> 00:42:45,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1136
00:42:45,779 –> 00:42:46,260
[paul_tyler]: one question

1137
00:42:46,043 –> 00:42:46,284
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1138
00:42:46,360 –> 00:42:46,681
[paul_tyler]: a couple of

1139
00:42:46,685 –> 00:42:46,827
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1140
00:42:46,721 –> 00:42:47,702
[paul_tyler]: observations one is

1141
00:42:47,655 –> 00:42:47,778
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1142
00:42:48,945 –> 00:42:50,728
[paul_tyler]: can we put this in our show
notes or do you have this on a

1143
00:42:50,768 –> 00:42:52,450
[paul_tyler]: website where we can put a link
to it because

1144
00:42:52,355 –> 00:42:52,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1145
00:42:52,490 –> 00:42:53,312
[paul_tyler]: people need to read this

1146
00:42:53,325 –> 00:42:53,468
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1147
00:42:53,773 –> 00:42:54,681
[paul_tyler]: they will have to e is

1148
00:42:54,837 –> 00:42:55,321
[michelle_richter]: i’ll give it to you

1149
00:42:55,374 –> 00:42:56,195
[paul_tyler]: okay good

1150
00:42:56,537 –> 00:42:56,658
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1151
00:42:56,675 –> 00:42:56,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1152
00:42:56,896 –> 00:42:59,060
[paul_tyler]: other observation is you know these words
are

1153
00:42:59,366 –> 00:42:59,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1154
00:43:00,021 –> 00:43:05,591
[paul_tyler]: complicated couple o things i heard in
their agents versus advisors because even more complicated

1155
00:43:05,631 –> 00:43:06,813
[paul_tyler]: michele than that like for instance

1156
00:43:07,717 –> 00:43:07,779
[michelle_richter]: ah

1157
00:43:07,894 –> 00:43:12,562
[paul_tyler]: state of connecticut does not allow us
to talk about agents is that interesting as

1158
00:43:12,662 –> 00:43:17,931
[paul_tyler]: a independent product manufacture we have to
call them independent producers does anybody

1159
00:43:17,912 –> 00:43:17,953
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1160
00:43:17,991 –> 00:43:18,131
[paul_tyler]: know

1161
00:43:18,175 –> 00:43:18,360
[michelle_richter]: huh

1162
00:43:18,192 –> 00:43:19,654
[paul_tyler]: that does anybody under and they

1163
00:43:19,685 –> 00:43:19,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1164
00:43:19,694 –> 00:43:20,616
[paul_tyler]: do consume now

1165
00:43:21,015 –> 00:43:21,137
[michelle_richter]: no

1166
00:43:21,677 –> 00:43:22,960
[paul_tyler]: but that you are an independent

1167
00:43:22,816 –> 00:43:22,918
[michelle_richter]: no

1168
00:43:23,220 –> 00:43:27,988
[paul_tyler]: you know ramsey is an independent producer
so just footnote that there are some very

1169
00:43:28,148 –> 00:43:28,489
[paul_tyler]: strange

1170
00:43:28,195 –> 00:43:28,663
[michelle_richter]: damn

1171
00:43:28,569 –> 00:43:30,732
[paul_tyler]: vagaries in existing

1172
00:43:30,545 –> 00:43:30,786
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1173
00:43:31,193 –> 00:43:31,982
[paul_tyler]: league structures

1174
00:43:32,378 –> 00:43:32,680
[michelle_richter]: and not

1175
00:43:33,164 –> 00:43:33,389
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1176
00:43:33,455 –> 00:43:33,795
[michelle_richter]: that’s the

1177
00:43:33,806 –> 00:43:34,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

1178
00:43:33,855 –> 00:43:37,020
[michelle_richter]: whole point i mean it’s you know
our field is state regulated

1179
00:43:37,004 –> 00:43:37,347
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1180
00:43:37,101 –> 00:43:39,184
[michelle_richter]: and every state has a different impression

1181
00:43:38,904 –> 00:43:38,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1182
00:43:39,324 –> 00:43:40,486
[michelle_richter]: of what our behavior

1183
00:43:40,454 –> 00:43:41,234
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1184
00:43:40,546 –> 00:43:43,972
[michelle_richter]: is supposed to look like and so
because it’s not a nationally

1185
00:43:43,685 –> 00:43:43,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1186
00:43:44,072 –> 00:43:44,633
[michelle_richter]: regulated

1187
00:43:44,497 –> 00:43:44,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1188
00:43:44,733 –> 00:43:46,307
[michelle_richter]: field you can’t get scale able

1189
00:43:46,955 –> 00:43:47,197
[paul_tyler]: right

1190
00:43:48,215 –> 00:43:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1191
00:43:48,425 –> 00:43:52,789
[michelle_richter]: but since but because of demutualization now

1192
00:43:52,856 –> 00:43:52,957
[paul_tyler]: ah

1193
00:43:53,771 –> 00:43:57,898
[michelle_richter]: it’s no longer the case that distribution
and manufacturing are in the same

1194
00:43:57,867 –> 00:43:57,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1195
00:43:57,998 –> 00:43:58,799
[michelle_richter]: organization

1196
00:43:58,946 –> 00:43:59,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1197
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:02,726
[michelle_richter]: so i’m not sure that the i’m
sure

1198
00:44:02,735 –> 00:44:03,001
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

1199
00:44:02,866 –> 00:44:05,110
[michelle_richter]: that state regulation of products

1200
00:44:04,676 –> 00:44:05,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1201
00:44:05,390 –> 00:44:06,712
[michelle_richter]: is has merit

1202
00:44:06,944 –> 00:44:08,294
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1203
00:44:07,313 –> 00:44:09,337
[michelle_richter]: i’m less certain that state regulation of

1204
00:44:09,335 –> 00:44:09,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1205
00:44:09,374 –> 00:44:09,741
[paul_tyler]: okay

1206
00:44:09,397 –> 00:44:13,964
[michelle_richter]: distribution remains the most meritorious method of
oversight

1207
00:44:14,004 –> 00:44:14,186
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1208
00:44:14,276 –> 00:44:14,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1209
00:44:14,727 –> 00:44:19,767
[michelle_richter]: given that those entities no longer live
with each other no

1210
00:44:20,446 –> 00:44:22,109
[paul_tyler]: interesting ay that’s a whole nother podcast

1211
00:44:21,926 –> 00:44:21,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1212
00:44:23,527 –> 00:44:23,729
[michelle_richter]: yes

1213
00:44:24,112 –> 00:44:24,412
[paul_tyler]: the other

1214
00:44:24,301 –> 00:44:24,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1215
00:44:24,553 –> 00:44:25,735
[paul_tyler]: observation i love

1216
00:44:25,685 –> 00:44:25,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1217
00:44:25,815 –> 00:44:29,281
[paul_tyler]: your concept of income under management however

1218
00:44:29,516 –> 00:44:29,819
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1219
00:44:29,521 –> 00:44:33,307
[paul_tyler]: man my head starts to spend because
think of any one of our products g

1220
00:44:33,488 –> 00:44:33,688
[paul_tyler]: is that

1221
00:44:33,656 –> 00:44:34,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1222
00:44:33,708 –> 00:44:38,196
[paul_tyler]: the you know i’m not expecting is
that the guaranteed income off of the product

1223
00:44:38,376 –> 00:44:39,818
[paul_tyler]: is this the potential

1224
00:44:39,875 –> 00:44:40,019
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1225
00:44:39,899 –> 00:44:41,942
[paul_tyler]: income based on you mark you know

1226
00:44:41,985 –> 00:44:43,427
[michelle_richter]: it’s the max of

1227
00:44:43,484 –> 00:44:43,747
[paul_tyler]: yea

1228
00:44:44,008 –> 00:44:52,682
[michelle_richter]: the guaranteed benefit made available through the
product structure or dolls translation metric that was

1229
00:44:53,003 –> 00:44:53,784
[michelle_richter]: interim final

1230
00:44:53,756 –> 00:44:54,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1231
00:44:54,065 –> 00:44:54,185
[michelle_richter]: dan

1232
00:44:54,224 –> 00:44:54,508
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1233
00:44:54,425 –> 00:44:57,891
[michelle_richter]: i think became final guidance on second
quarter twenty twenty

1234
00:44:57,725 –> 00:44:57,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1235
00:44:57,951 –> 00:44:58,692
[michelle_richter]: two statements

1236
00:44:58,346 –> 00:44:58,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1237
00:44:59,253 –> 00:44:59,414
[michelle_richter]: that

1238
00:44:59,426 –> 00:44:59,749
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1239
00:44:59,554 –> 00:45:01,337
[michelle_richter]: translated assets to income

1240
00:45:01,706 –> 00:45:02,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1241
00:45:01,838 –> 00:45:04,402
[michelle_richter]: that would be the appropriate method by
which to

1242
00:45:04,405 –> 00:45:04,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1243
00:45:04,502 –> 00:45:05,023
[michelle_richter]: accomplish

1244
00:45:04,826 –> 00:45:05,212
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1245
00:45:05,564 –> 00:45:06,206
[michelle_richter]: a building base

1246
00:45:06,146 –> 00:45:06,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1247
00:45:06,306 –> 00:45:07,492
[michelle_richter]: where income under management

1248
00:45:09,566 –> 00:45:09,892
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1249
00:45:12,490 –> 00:45:12,591
[michelle_richter]: so

1250
00:45:12,566 –> 00:45:12,707
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1251
00:45:13,415 –> 00:45:17,582
[michelle_richter]: it should be considered in my view
and in particular it should be considered because

1252
00:45:17,822 –> 00:45:21,909
[michelle_richter]: aria has retirement income in the name
is

1253
00:45:21,837 –> 00:45:21,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1254
00:45:22,009 –> 00:45:23,431
[michelle_richter]: not about maximization

1255
00:45:23,045 –> 00:45:23,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1256
00:45:23,491 –> 00:45:24,092
[michelle_richter]: of assets

1257
00:45:23,734 –> 00:45:24,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1258
00:45:24,373 –> 00:45:25,535
[michelle_richter]: everybody complain is

1259
00:45:25,616 –> 00:45:25,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1260
00:45:25,635 –> 00:45:29,842
[michelle_richter]: that d c is focused exclusively on
acid accumulation

1261
00:45:29,987 –> 00:45:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1262
00:45:30,343 –> 00:45:35,351
[michelle_richter]: and you want to know why it’s
because of the method by which compensation occurs

1263
00:45:35,852 –> 00:45:36,092
[michelle_richter]: right

1264
00:45:35,936 –> 00:45:36,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1265
00:45:36,934 –> 00:45:41,274
[michelle_richter]: like it always is right everywhere in
humanity

1266
00:45:41,285 –> 00:45:41,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1267
00:45:41,536 –> 00:45:42,261
[michelle_richter]: that’s the truth

1268
00:45:43,085 –> 00:45:43,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1269
00:45:43,425 –> 00:45:47,270
[michelle_richter]: so you know if we want something
different and we continue to do the same

1270
00:45:47,350 –> 00:45:52,367
[michelle_richter]: thing we experience the definition of crazy
so

1271
00:45:52,376 –> 00:45:52,597
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1272
00:45:52,567 –> 00:45:55,519
[michelle_richter]: in order to do to accomplish something
different we must do

1273
00:45:55,526 –> 00:45:56,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1274
00:45:55,639 –> 00:45:56,322
[michelle_richter]: something different

1275
00:45:57,575 –> 00:45:57,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1276
00:45:59,065 –> 00:46:03,672
[michelle_richter]: my third assertion is that the impossibility
of intellectual property

1277
00:46:03,716 –> 00:46:03,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1278
00:46:03,772 –> 00:46:10,504
[michelle_richter]: having value in my field is an
offense about which utter outrage is merited it

1279
00:46:10,564 –> 00:46:10,624
[michelle_richter]: is

1280
00:46:10,646 –> 00:46:10,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1281
00:46:10,844 –> 00:46:18,457
[michelle_richter]: i direct affront to the very principles
of capitalism capitalism as a governing frame relies

1282
00:46:18,637 –> 00:46:25,589
[michelle_richter]: heavily upon intellectual property being protectable and
mont is able so as to encourage invention

1283
00:46:26,186 –> 00:46:26,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1284
00:46:26,390 –> 00:46:30,898
[michelle_richter]: thus i question why is mine the
soul field in this

1285
00:46:30,785 –> 00:46:30,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1286
00:46:30,998 –> 00:46:36,487
[michelle_richter]: country to which capitalism is not permitted
to apply on why are other members of

1287
00:46:36,587 –> 00:46:41,856
[michelle_richter]: my community not apoplectic about my true
words consider the

1288
00:46:41,825 –> 00:46:42,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1289
00:46:41,936 –> 00:46:49,088
[michelle_richter]: implications that not codifying verb sales in
our domain has now that post secure annuities

1290
00:46:49,268 –> 00:46:56,480
[michelle_richter]: are permissible in plans plan advisors like
all other faduciaries in america are inherently taught

1291
00:46:56,580 –> 00:47:04,213
[michelle_richter]: that asset maximization is the only valid
lens through which financial advisement can occur yet

1292
00:47:04,494 –> 00:47:09,843
[michelle_richter]: i believe that financials occur not only
on the left side of the consumer balance

1293
00:47:09,923 –> 00:47:16,173
[michelle_richter]: sheet but all so on their income
statement their statement of net worth their cash

1294
00:47:16,253 –> 00:47:16,434
[michelle_richter]: flow

1295
00:47:16,376 –> 00:47:16,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1296
00:47:16,574 –> 00:47:18,918
[michelle_richter]: statement and the right side

1297
00:47:18,686 –> 00:47:18,948
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1298
00:47:19,018 –> 00:47:20,681
[michelle_richter]: of their balance sheet which

1299
00:47:20,524 –> 00:47:20,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1300
00:47:20,741 –> 00:47:23,225
[michelle_richter]: is where insurance plays plan

1301
00:47:23,156 –> 00:47:24,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1302
00:47:23,366 –> 00:47:25,818
[michelle_richter]: advisors don’t know annuities and vice

1303
00:47:25,676 –> 00:47:26,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1304
00:47:25,919 –> 00:47:31,211
[michelle_richter]: versa advisors can’t even begin to imagine
why we insurance

1305
00:47:30,795 –> 00:47:30,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1306
00:47:31,271 –> 00:47:36,400
[michelle_richter]: people believe our solutions have value because
they are taught to see the world through

1307
00:47:36,440 –> 00:47:38,343
[michelle_richter]: the lens of asset maximization

1308
00:47:37,916 –> 00:47:38,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1309
00:47:38,844 –> 00:47:44,373
[michelle_richter]: in there not taught about liability minimization
as a valid entry point to a consumer

1310
00:47:44,473 –> 00:47:45,395
[michelle_richter]: finance world view

1311
00:47:45,695 –> 00:47:45,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1312
00:47:46,517 –> 00:47:47,959
[michelle_richter]: annuities in d c will

1313
00:47:47,906 –> 00:47:48,152
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1314
00:47:48,140 –> 00:47:51,385
[michelle_richter]: only take off if we band together
to fight for their ace

1315
00:47:51,905 –> 00:47:51,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1316
00:47:52,407 –> 00:47:53,088
[michelle_richter]: actuaries

1317
00:47:52,611 –> 00:47:52,632
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1318
00:47:53,208 –> 00:47:56,053
[michelle_richter]: for example used to have a role
in asset

1319
00:47:56,126 –> 00:47:57,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1320
00:47:56,133 –> 00:47:57,956
[michelle_richter]: liability matching when we

1321
00:47:57,905 –> 00:47:57,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1322
00:47:58,196 –> 00:48:00,941
[michelle_richter]: as a society had defined benefit pension
plans

1323
00:48:00,845 –> 00:48:00,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1324
00:48:01,902 –> 00:48:06,408
[michelle_richter]: but now in d c there isn’t
a natural spot for an actuary in d

1325
00:48:06,628 –> 00:48:06,648
[michelle_richter]: c

1326
00:48:06,905 –> 00:48:06,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1327
00:48:06,968 –> 00:48:07,348
[michelle_richter]: because

1328
00:48:07,556 –> 00:48:07,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1329
00:48:07,809 –> 00:48:14,235
[michelle_richter]: liability consideration is not yet required so
as to advise in d c s d

1330
00:48:14,455 –> 00:48:23,951
[michelle_richter]: c again naturally emphasizes asset maximization so
the society of actuaries nata and iri must

1331
00:48:24,192 –> 00:48:28,879
[michelle_richter]: all strongly consider the possibly ity that
my words might be true and if they

1332
00:48:28,979 –> 00:48:31,723
[michelle_richter]: feel they might be they need to
begin acting

1333
00:48:31,525 –> 00:48:31,646
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1334
00:48:31,983 –> 00:48:34,056
[michelle_richter]: yesterday representatives

1335
00:48:33,866 –> 00:48:34,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1336
00:48:34,196 –> 00:48:36,320
[michelle_richter]: of any of these industry organizations

1337
00:48:36,446 –> 00:48:38,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1338
00:48:36,560 –> 00:48:40,507
[michelle_richter]: or other organizations that can help change
the circumstances

1339
00:48:40,316 –> 00:48:40,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1340
00:48:40,627 –> 00:48:43,912
[michelle_richter]: i have just described are invited to
email me at

1341
00:48:44,195 –> 00:48:44,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1342
00:48:44,213 –> 00:48:48,300
[michelle_richter]: m rector f s at g mail
dot com and request a

1343
00:48:48,296 –> 00:48:48,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1344
00:48:48,380 –> 00:48:50,844
[michelle_richter]: death that further explains this perspective

1345
00:48:50,906 –> 00:48:51,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1346
00:48:51,245 –> 00:48:53,689
[michelle_richter]: and the dangers that follow logically therefrom

1347
00:48:54,418 –> 00:48:54,479
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

1348
00:48:54,590 –> 00:48:59,799
[michelle_richter]: lastly for this diatribe i hold and
and advisement should be a national field again

1349
00:48:59,979 –> 00:49:05,268
[michelle_richter]: it is not about the non placement
it is about contextual advisement it is not

1350
00:49:05,348 –> 00:49:11,478
[michelle_richter]: persacorrelated to an individual contract the way
some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to

1351
00:49:11,558 –> 00:49:13,862
[michelle_richter]: a car that does not make sense
to be

1352
00:49:13,886 –> 00:49:14,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1353
00:49:13,942 –> 00:49:20,133
[michelle_richter]: state regulated should be policed similarly to
how r s are overseen achieving this framework

1354
00:49:20,273 –> 00:49:25,822
[michelle_richter]: is my career goal twenty seven years
remain until i begin taking social security at

1355
00:49:25,902 –> 00:49:31,932
[michelle_richter]: age seventy it thus follows logically that
i will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns

1356
00:49:32,013 –> 00:49:34,429
[michelle_richter]: on these matters for at least twenty
seven more years

1357
00:49:34,586 –> 00:49:34,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1358
00:49:35,616 –> 00:49:37,915
[michelle_richter]: or until it’s solved so

1359
00:49:38,036 –> 00:49:38,359
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1360
00:49:38,436 –> 00:49:41,000
[michelle_richter]: i thank you so much for your
patients and listening to me

1361
00:49:40,955 –> 00:49:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1362
00:49:41,080 –> 00:49:41,761
[michelle_richter]: through all of that

1363
00:49:41,748 –> 00:49:43,090
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:49:41,841 –> 00:49:44,586
[michelle_richter]: i know it was a lot and
i know

1365
00:49:44,576 –> 00:49:44,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1366
00:49:44,866 –> 00:49:47,751
[michelle_richter]: you suffered but but i think

1367
00:49:47,726 –> 00:49:48,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1368
00:49:48,092 –> 00:49:49,274
[michelle_richter]: i think my words are true

1369
00:49:49,458 –> 00:49:50,268
[bruno_caron]: oh

1370
00:49:49,534 –> 00:49:50,908
[michelle_richter]: right time scared they might be

1371
00:49:51,318 –> 00:49:51,543
[bruno_caron]: oh

1372
00:49:51,716 –> 00:49:52,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1373
00:49:51,965 –> 00:49:52,911
[michelle_richter]: so i feel that

1374
00:49:53,088 –> 00:49:54,018
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1375
00:49:53,234 –> 00:49:54,261
[michelle_richter]: they should be considered

1376
00:49:54,686 –> 00:49:55,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1377
00:49:55,475 –> 00:49:56,398
[michelle_richter]: thank you for giving me

1378
00:49:56,456 –> 00:49:56,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1379
00:49:56,779 –> 00:49:57,501
[michelle_richter]: the audience to

1380
00:49:57,498 –> 00:49:57,699
[bruno_caron]: oh

1381
00:49:57,541 –> 00:49:58,103
[michelle_richter]: share that with

1382
00:49:59,818 –> 00:50:01,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: well thank you for sharing your thoughts

1383
00:50:01,236 –> 00:50:01,617
[michelle_richter]: esto

1384
00:50:01,538 –> 00:50:01,698
[bruno_caron]: thank

1385
00:50:01,560 –> 00:50:01,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: michelle

1386
00:50:01,778 –> 00:50:01,938
[bruno_caron]: you

1387
00:50:04,966 –> 00:50:05,127
[michelle_richter]: yes

1388
00:50:05,961 –> 00:50:06,082
[bruno_caron]: it’s

1389
00:50:06,086 –> 00:50:07,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1390
00:50:08,624 –> 00:50:08,684
[bruno_caron]: we

1391
00:50:08,685 –> 00:50:08,926
[michelle_richter]: oh

1392
00:50:09,044 –> 00:50:11,326
[bruno_caron]: already knew that there was never a
dull moment with

1393
00:50:11,266 –> 00:50:11,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1394
00:50:11,295 –> 00:50:14,565
[michelle_richter]: oh

1395
00:50:11,386 –> 00:50:11,486
[bruno_caron]: you

1396
00:50:14,600 –> 00:50:16,683
[bruno_caron]: but you prove that once more one
more time

1397
00:50:17,115 –> 00:50:18,348
[michelle_richter]: uh

1398
00:50:17,344 –> 00:50:17,605
[bruno_caron]: uh

1399
00:50:18,035 –> 00:50:18,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: h right

1400
00:50:18,874 –> 00:50:18,915
[michelle_richter]: uh

1401
00:50:19,127 –> 00:50:20,450
[bruno_caron]: i have a feeling we just went

1402
00:50:20,456 –> 00:50:20,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1403
00:50:20,510 –> 00:50:22,894
[bruno_caron]: back to basically college to logic

1404
00:50:22,706 –> 00:50:22,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1405
00:50:22,954 –> 00:50:23,354
[bruno_caron]: classes

1406
00:50:23,415 –> 00:50:25,605
[michelle_richter]: oh

1407
00:50:23,455 –> 00:50:25,618
[bruno_caron]: philosophy cal classes low

1408
00:50:25,445 –> 00:50:25,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1409
00:50:25,738 –> 00:50:26,620
[bruno_caron]: classes math

1410
00:50:26,715 –> 00:50:26,977
[michelle_richter]: oh

1411
00:50:26,720 –> 00:50:29,685
[bruno_caron]: classes accounting classes um

1412
00:50:30,126 –> 00:50:30,247
[michelle_richter]: es

1413
00:50:31,076 –> 00:50:31,583
[mark_chamberlain]: hm

1414
00:50:31,308 –> 00:50:31,388
[bruno_caron]: and

1415
00:50:31,435 –> 00:50:31,803
[michelle_richter]: that’s right

1416
00:50:33,146 –> 00:50:34,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1417
00:50:33,612 –> 00:50:34,012
[bruno_caron]: i always

1418
00:50:34,496 –> 00:50:35,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1419
00:50:34,834 –> 00:50:35,915
[bruno_caron]: i always like the analogy

1420
00:50:35,576 –> 00:50:35,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1421
00:50:35,935 –> 00:50:37,137
[bruno_caron]: between the balance sheet in the end

1422
00:50:37,076 –> 00:50:37,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1423
00:50:37,378 –> 00:50:40,323
[bruno_caron]: statement but you bring it a step
forward

1424
00:50:40,106 –> 00:50:40,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:50:40,423 –> 00:50:44,550
[bruno_caron]: you know a step further with with
the right hand side of the balance sheet

1426
00:50:44,630 –> 00:50:45,251
[bruno_caron]: the net worth

1427
00:50:45,266 –> 00:50:45,286
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1428
00:50:45,612 –> 00:50:46,233
[bruno_caron]: the cash little

1429
00:50:46,256 –> 00:50:46,419
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1430
00:50:46,273 –> 00:50:46,673
[bruno_caron]: statement

1431
00:50:47,246 –> 00:50:47,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1432
00:50:47,915 –> 00:50:53,905
[bruno_caron]: and you know and in such an
eloquent way so i hope the the stake

1433
00:50:53,946 –> 00:50:54,326
[bruno_caron]: holders

1434
00:50:54,729 –> 00:50:54,893
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

1435
00:50:54,767 –> 00:50:56,690
[bruno_caron]: will make it to the right stake
holders

1436
00:50:56,486 –> 00:50:56,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1437
00:50:57,091 –> 00:50:57,251
[bruno_caron]: and

1438
00:50:57,356 –> 00:50:58,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1439
00:50:58,413 –> 00:50:59,335
[bruno_caron]: we’ll definitely push for that

1440
00:51:00,815 –> 00:51:02,216
[michelle_richter]: thank you thank you

1441
00:51:02,195 –> 00:51:02,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1442
00:51:02,396 –> 00:51:08,683
[michelle_richter]: so much you guys really elevate the
dialogue in our industry i appreciate the work

1443
00:51:08,763 –> 00:51:09,824
[michelle_richter]: that you do so much

1444
00:51:11,336 –> 00:51:13,602
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah all you’re on mute

1445
00:51:13,455 –> 00:51:13,864
[michelle_richter]: oh

1446
00:51:15,509 –> 00:51:15,529
[bruno_caron]: m

1447
00:51:15,836 –> 00:51:16,016
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1448
00:51:16,676 –> 00:51:16,837
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1449
00:51:17,614 –> 00:51:19,938
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m telling it’s two thousand
twenty two is

1450
00:51:19,946 –> 00:51:20,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1451
00:51:20,018 –> 00:51:21,541
[paul_tyler]: almost okay two thousand twenty three

1452
00:51:21,545 –> 00:51:21,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1453
00:51:21,621 –> 00:51:22,262
[paul_tyler]: that will not be

1454
00:51:22,196 –> 00:51:22,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1455
00:51:22,322 –> 00:51:24,666
[paul_tyler]: a word but yeah michell

1456
00:51:24,555 –> 00:51:24,797
[michelle_richter]: uh

1457
00:51:24,846 –> 00:51:24,926
[paul_tyler]: no

1458
00:51:25,343 –> 00:51:25,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1459
00:51:25,467 –> 00:51:25,888
[paul_tyler]: no no

1460
00:51:25,865 –> 00:51:25,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1461
00:51:26,008 –> 00:51:26,309
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1462
00:51:26,276 –> 00:51:27,000
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1463
00:51:26,349 –> 00:51:26,389
[paul_tyler]: i

1464
00:51:26,434 –> 00:51:26,475
[michelle_richter]: uh

1465
00:51:26,449 –> 00:51:27,290
[paul_tyler]: think look

1466
00:51:27,785 –> 00:51:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1467
00:51:28,292 –> 00:51:28,632
[paul_tyler]: it takes

1468
00:51:28,433 –> 00:51:28,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1469
00:51:28,693 –> 00:51:29,474
[paul_tyler]: a lot to to

1470
00:51:29,541 –> 00:51:29,723
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

1471
00:51:29,634 –> 00:51:30,194
[paul_tyler]: change this

1472
00:51:30,095 –> 00:51:30,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1473
00:51:30,295 –> 00:51:31,716
[paul_tyler]: world and you know your your

1474
00:51:32,546 –> 00:51:32,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1475
00:51:32,997 –> 00:51:33,758
[paul_tyler]: wow to

1476
00:51:34,046 –> 00:51:34,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1477
00:51:34,639 –> 00:51:37,662
[paul_tyler]: provide more retirement security for people especially
the war

1478
00:51:37,646 –> 00:51:37,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1479
00:51:37,762 –> 00:51:38,482
[paul_tyler]: place is

1480
00:51:40,579 –> 00:51:41,539
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah yeah

1481
00:51:42,709 –> 00:51:42,789
[paul_tyler]: it

1482
00:51:43,526 –> 00:51:43,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1483
00:51:44,471 –> 00:51:47,496
[paul_tyler]: requires a lot of different organizations

1484
00:51:47,186 –> 00:51:47,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1485
00:51:47,577 –> 00:51:48,638
[paul_tyler]: and legal structures

1486
00:51:48,206 –> 00:51:48,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1487
00:51:48,739 –> 00:51:50,341
[paul_tyler]: to change to make sense

1488
00:51:51,755 –> 00:51:51,899
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1489
00:51:51,924 –> 00:51:56,912
[paul_tyler]: especially when you think of a typical
company may have employes in all fifty states

1490
00:51:58,014 –> 00:51:59,977
[paul_tyler]: fifty different state laws may apply

1491
00:52:01,565 –> 00:52:01,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1492
00:52:01,969 –> 00:52:02,535
[michelle_richter]: hm

1493
00:52:02,161 –> 00:52:03,563
[paul_tyler]: securities and exchange

1494
00:52:03,239 –> 00:52:04,890
[michelle_richter]: there is no commissions in arica

1495
00:52:04,994 –> 00:52:05,760
[paul_tyler]: uh

1496
00:52:05,216 –> 00:52:05,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1497
00:52:05,815 –> 00:52:07,743
[michelle_richter]: so how are you going to pay
the insurance expert

1498
00:52:07,955 –> 00:52:07,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1499
00:52:08,496 –> 00:52:09,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s this is a challenge

1500
00:52:09,515 –> 00:52:09,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1501
00:52:09,800 –> 00:52:09,860
[paul_tyler]: so

1502
00:52:10,256 –> 00:52:10,461
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1503
00:52:11,216 –> 00:52:11,898
[paul_tyler]: question for you is

1504
00:52:12,185 –> 00:52:12,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1505
00:52:13,284 –> 00:52:17,110
[paul_tyler]: yes we untangle you know the gordian
not here

1506
00:52:17,254 –> 00:52:17,295
[michelle_richter]: uh

1507
00:52:18,392 –> 00:52:23,661
[paul_tyler]: if i’m a typical employe five years
ten years from now how is the experience

1508
00:52:23,741 –> 00:52:26,711
[paul_tyler]: different then it is today

1509
00:52:29,276 –> 00:52:32,441
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s much more likely that
more plans

1510
00:52:32,213 –> 00:52:32,233
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1511
00:52:32,622 –> 00:52:40,615
[michelle_richter]: provide access to a financial professional like
through the employer preveded and financial professional think

1512
00:52:40,695 –> 00:52:40,815
[michelle_richter]: it’s

1513
00:52:41,105 –> 00:52:41,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1514
00:52:41,497 –> 00:52:46,285
[michelle_richter]: that’s already becoming a thing and i
think there’ll be more of that

1515
00:52:46,934 –> 00:52:47,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

1516
00:52:47,707 –> 00:52:52,595
[michelle_richter]: and frankly there a lot of plan
advisors who are interested in entering into wealth

1517
00:52:52,695 –> 00:52:53,937
[michelle_richter]: management domain

1518
00:52:53,876 –> 00:52:53,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1519
00:52:54,098 –> 00:52:55,119
[michelle_richter]: so they’re going to gladly

1520
00:52:54,986 –> 00:52:55,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1521
00:52:55,219 –> 00:52:59,647
[michelle_richter]: provide it and that’s going to be
a threat to my people unless my people

1522
00:53:00,027 –> 00:53:00,268
[michelle_richter]: start

1523
00:53:00,146 –> 00:53:00,449
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1524
00:53:00,648 –> 00:53:01,891
[michelle_richter]: moving towards the d c

1525
00:53:02,015 –> 00:53:02,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1526
00:53:02,111 –> 00:53:06,728
[michelle_richter]: space right and how do they how
to you know have our place set the

1527
00:53:06,768 –> 00:53:07,030
[michelle_richter]: table

1528
00:53:07,354 –> 00:53:07,554
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1529
00:53:07,371 –> 00:53:07,552
[michelle_richter]: right

1530
00:53:08,015 –> 00:53:11,100
[paul_tyler]: well bruno we literally are at the
top of the hour

1531
00:53:12,285 –> 00:53:12,506
[michelle_richter]: uh

1532
00:53:12,703 –> 00:53:12,823
[paul_tyler]: what

1533
00:53:13,414 –> 00:53:13,455
[michelle_richter]: uh

1534
00:53:13,445 –> 00:53:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1535
00:53:14,065 –> 00:53:17,290
[paul_tyler]: last final words observations

1536
00:53:19,259 –> 00:53:19,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

1537
00:53:19,274 –> 00:53:20,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1538
00:53:19,860 –> 00:53:20,001
[bruno_caron]: boy

1539
00:53:20,546 –> 00:53:21,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1540
00:53:20,822 –> 00:53:23,627
[bruno_caron]: i have a list of questions i
don’t even go through my notes and some

1541
00:53:23,667 –> 00:53:23,967
[bruno_caron]: of the things

1542
00:53:24,015 –> 00:53:27,034
[michelle_richter]: yea

1543
00:53:24,248 –> 00:53:26,832
[bruno_caron]: i wanted to talk about and i
wrote more

1544
00:53:27,005 –> 00:53:27,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1545
00:53:27,173 –> 00:53:30,097
[bruno_caron]: it’s usually the other way around so
i don’t even know where to start

1546
00:53:29,986 –> 00:53:30,474
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1547
00:53:30,238 –> 00:53:32,321
[bruno_caron]: to even to

1548
00:53:32,295 –> 00:53:32,477
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1549
00:53:32,421 –> 00:53:33,223
[bruno_caron]: even to even

1550
00:53:33,304 –> 00:53:33,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1551
00:53:33,423 –> 00:53:34,966
[bruno_caron]: end this but

1552
00:53:34,995 –> 00:53:35,217
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1553
00:53:35,346 –> 00:53:36,047
[bruno_caron]: i’ll simply say

1554
00:53:36,005 –> 00:53:36,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1555
00:53:36,148 –> 00:53:37,971
[bruno_caron]: thank you and we also

1556
00:53:37,895 –> 00:53:37,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1557
00:53:38,071 –> 00:53:38,712
[bruno_caron]: very very

1558
00:53:38,615 –> 00:53:38,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1559
00:53:38,752 –> 00:53:39,373
[bruno_caron]: much appreciate

1560
00:53:39,476 –> 00:53:39,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1561
00:53:39,513 –> 00:53:44,682
[bruno_caron]: all all you do for the industry
and such uh passionate and eloquent

1562
00:53:44,595 –> 00:53:44,796
[michelle_richter]: oh

1563
00:53:45,063 –> 00:53:46,906
[bruno_caron]: and rigorous would the

1564
00:53:46,871 –> 00:53:47,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1565
00:53:47,247 –> 00:53:47,347
[bruno_caron]: you

1566
00:53:47,276 –> 00:53:47,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1567
00:53:47,367 –> 00:53:50,874
[bruno_caron]: know kind of a word to you
so thank you

1568
00:53:51,998 –> 00:53:53,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’ll just i’ll just

1569
00:53:53,145 –> 00:53:53,955
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1570
00:53:53,160 –> 00:53:58,428
[ramsey_d_smith]: echo that you know thank you michelle
look you you’re you’re willing to break some

1571
00:53:58,488 –> 00:54:00,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: glass which i think is always important

1572
00:54:01,005 –> 00:54:01,085
[paul_tyler]: ah

1573
00:54:01,512 –> 00:54:02,058
[bruno_caron]: hm

1574
00:54:01,553 –> 00:54:03,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

1575
00:54:03,285 –> 00:54:04,245
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1576
00:54:04,198 –> 00:54:06,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and i’ll tell the audience like

1577
00:54:06,978 –> 00:54:07,222
[bruno_caron]: oh

1578
00:54:07,503 –> 00:54:12,311
[ramsey_d_smith]: well two things one is a huge
believer i’m a huge believer in the potential

1579
00:54:12,372 –> 00:54:16,759
[ramsey_d_smith]: for implantanuities and in the d the
importance of annuities in the d c space

1580
00:54:16,799 –> 00:54:19,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: to solve the retirement problem and you
know

1581
00:54:20,088 –> 00:54:20,375
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1582
00:54:20,205 –> 00:54:21,046
[ramsey_d_smith]: basically putting my money

1583
00:54:20,958 –> 00:54:21,220
[bruno_caron]: oh

1584
00:54:21,066 –> 00:54:25,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: where my mouth is and you know
as i as i take this journey a

1585
00:54:25,493 –> 00:54:29,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of times when when want to
find out what’s going on one of my

1586
00:54:29,540 –> 00:54:31,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: very first calls is to michelle rector
so

1587
00:54:32,358 –> 00:54:32,559
[bruno_caron]: oh

1588
00:54:32,425 –> 00:54:35,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would say that to anybody in
the audience you would you would do well

1589
00:54:35,931 –> 00:54:39,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to reach out to michelle if
you if you want to become

1590
00:54:39,854 –> 00:54:41,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

1591
00:54:40,019 –> 00:54:43,609
[ramsey_d_smith]: more up to speed on on really
what is a very sort of complex space

1592
00:54:43,689 –> 00:54:45,314
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for playing that role
michele

1593
00:54:47,125 –> 00:54:47,246
[michelle_richter]: oh

1594
00:54:47,416 –> 00:54:47,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1595
00:54:47,969 –> 00:54:48,712
[michelle_richter]: thank you so much

1596
00:54:49,119 –> 00:54:50,180
[paul_tyler]: michelle thank you mark

1597
00:54:50,006 –> 00:54:50,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1598
00:54:50,281 –> 00:54:50,741
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1599
00:54:51,236 –> 00:54:51,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1600
00:54:51,563 –> 00:54:52,745
[paul_tyler]: hey bruno what i would suggest

1601
00:54:52,766 –> 00:54:52,927
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1602
00:54:52,825 –> 00:54:56,571
[paul_tyler]: doing is let’s put your questions in
the linkedon post once this thing goes alive

1603
00:54:56,730 –> 00:54:56,915
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1604
00:54:56,932 –> 00:54:57,252
[paul_tyler]: michelle

1605
00:54:57,198 –> 00:54:57,622
[bruno_caron]: oh

1606
00:54:57,412 –> 00:54:57,993
[paul_tyler]: let’s let’s conti

1607
00:54:58,106 –> 00:54:58,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1608
00:54:58,414 –> 00:55:00,057
[paul_tyler]: mark let’s continue the discussion there

1609
00:55:00,106 –> 00:55:00,675
[michelle_richter]: absolutely

1610
00:55:00,568 –> 00:55:01,739
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1611
00:55:01,700 –> 00:55:05,646
[paul_tyler]: lot of threads to pull here a
lot of dimensions i think

1612
00:55:05,576 –> 00:55:05,720
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1613
00:55:05,706 –> 00:55:06,207
[paul_tyler]: that we could

1614
00:55:06,605 –> 00:55:06,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1615
00:55:07,021 –> 00:55:07,142
[michelle_richter]: yep

1616
00:55:07,850 –> 00:55:09,993
[paul_tyler]: explore please

1617
00:55:10,446 –> 00:55:14,192
[michelle_richter]: i am an interesting follow on link
down so

1618
00:55:14,155 –> 00:55:17,564
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1619
00:55:14,433 –> 00:55:14,914
[michelle_richter]: consider

1620
00:55:14,716 –> 00:55:15,228
[bruno_caron]: hm

1621
00:55:14,974 –> 00:55:15,054
[michelle_richter]: it

1622
00:55:15,348 –> 00:55:15,671
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1623
00:55:15,716 –> 00:55:15,737
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1624
00:55:16,985 –> 00:55:17,167
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1625
00:55:17,462 –> 00:55:17,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1626
00:55:17,478 –> 00:55:18,500
[michelle_richter]: if any part of this

1627
00:55:18,438 –> 00:55:18,639
[bruno_caron]: oh

1628
00:55:18,605 –> 00:55:18,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1629
00:55:18,620 –> 00:55:19,261
[michelle_richter]: was appealing

1630
00:55:19,286 –> 00:55:19,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1631
00:55:19,321 –> 00:55:19,641
[michelle_richter]: to you

1632
00:55:19,754 –> 00:55:21,014
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1633
00:55:20,403 –> 00:55:20,783
[michelle_richter]: you should

1634
00:55:20,817 –> 00:55:20,838
[bruno_caron]: m

1635
00:55:20,863 –> 00:55:21,324
[michelle_richter]: consider

1636
00:55:20,966 –> 00:55:21,187
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1637
00:55:21,464 –> 00:55:21,864
[paul_tyler]: i agree

1638
00:55:21,726 –> 00:55:22,087
[michelle_richter]: allowing

1639
00:55:21,778 –> 00:55:21,980
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1640
00:55:22,127 –> 00:55:22,489
[michelle_richter]: in linked

1641
00:55:22,405 –> 00:55:22,485
[paul_tyler]: no

1642
00:55:22,529 –> 00:55:22,589
[michelle_richter]: in

1643
00:55:22,626 –> 00:55:23,587
[paul_tyler]: i agree so okay

1644
00:55:23,486 –> 00:55:24,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1645
00:55:23,727 –> 00:55:25,010
[paul_tyler]: continue it there we’ll move this

1646
00:55:24,926 –> 00:55:24,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1647
00:55:25,070 –> 00:55:26,712
[paul_tyler]: from audio to text

1648
00:55:26,516 –> 00:55:26,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1649
00:55:26,833 –> 00:55:27,393
[paul_tyler]: on linked in

1650
00:55:28,128 –> 00:55:28,496
[bruno_caron]: oh

1651
00:55:28,395 –> 00:55:31,420
[paul_tyler]: mark michelle thank you ramsey bruno thank
you michelle

1652
00:55:31,796 –> 00:55:31,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1653
00:55:31,821 –> 00:55:34,265
[paul_tyler]: either sent us a link to what
you just read or send us the text

1654
00:55:34,305 –> 00:55:35,166
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll pop it in the

1655
00:55:35,105 –> 00:55:35,266
[michelle_richter]: yes

1656
00:55:35,227 –> 00:55:35,487
[paul_tyler]: notes

1657
00:55:35,428 –> 00:55:35,650
[michelle_richter]: i will

1658
00:55:36,268 –> 00:55:41,537
[paul_tyler]: uh give us feedback you’re listening thank
you for sticking with us give us feedback

1659
00:55:41,818 –> 00:55:46,486
[paul_tyler]: give us questions give us guess suggestions
we definitely listen and

1660
00:55:47,156 –> 00:55:47,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1661
00:55:47,208 –> 00:55:52,302
[paul_tyler]: gettin next week for another great episode
of that annuity show thanks thanks everybody

1662
00:55:53,738 –> 00:55:54,024
[bruno_caron]: thank you

1663
00:55:53,936 –> 00:55:53,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 173: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 2 of 2
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Episode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2

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The SECURE Act reinvigorated interest in expanding the market for in-plan annuities. However, we need to make many more changes to really drive adoption. In part one of a two part series, Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain of the newly renamed firm, Annuity Research & Consulting, share their roadmap for future success.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-richter/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-chamberlain-33349a14/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:00,316 –> 00:00:00,438
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

2
00:00:01,904 –> 00:00:07,374
[paul_tyler]: this is paul tyler and welcome to
another episode of that annuity show and we’ve

3
00:00:07,435 –> 00:00:10,220
[paul_tyler]: got our great set up hosts here

4
00:00:10,065 –> 00:00:10,307
[michelle_richter]: oh

5
00:00:10,420 –> 00:00:11,662
[paul_tyler]: bruno welcome

6
00:00:13,280 –> 00:00:13,481
[bruno_caron]: thank

7
00:00:13,493 –> 00:00:13,514
[paul_tyler]: m

8
00:00:13,541 –> 00:00:13,661
[bruno_caron]: you

9
00:00:14,254 –> 00:00:15,738
[paul_tyler]: from canada ramsey

10
00:00:15,761 –> 00:00:15,863
[bruno_caron]: ah

11
00:00:15,979 –> 00:00:16,561
[paul_tyler]: from atlanta

12
00:00:17,757 –> 00:00:18,568
[ramsey_d_smith]: always great to be here

13
00:00:19,314 –> 00:00:21,239
[paul_tyler]: tis and where are you from where
are you

14
00:00:22,236 –> 00:00:23,946
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i am in hartford connecticut today good
morning

15
00:00:24,464 –> 00:00:26,568
[paul_tyler]: thanks broadcasting from the basement i know

16
00:00:27,918 –> 00:00:28,161
[bruno_caron]: uh

17
00:00:27,921 –> 00:00:28,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: basement

18
00:00:28,031 –> 00:00:28,372
[paul_tyler]: which i’ve

19
00:00:28,262 –> 00:00:28,442
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the

20
00:00:28,365 –> 00:00:29,500
[michelle_richter]: oh

21
00:00:28,482 –> 00:00:29,084
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: boat building

22
00:00:29,457 –> 00:00:29,478
[bruno_caron]: h

23
00:00:29,674 –> 00:00:33,721
[paul_tyler]: spacemen of the boat bill and i’m
obviously in just outside new york

24
00:00:33,926 –> 00:00:34,228
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

25
00:00:34,542 –> 00:00:35,464
[paul_tyler]: we have great

26
00:00:35,483 –> 00:00:36,503
[mark_chamberlain]: yeh

27
00:00:35,524 –> 00:00:42,214
[paul_tyler]: guests okay in fact record set appearances
by none other and michelle

28
00:00:41,985 –> 00:00:43,455
[michelle_richter]: yeah

29
00:00:42,314 –> 00:00:45,457
[paul_tyler]: rector co founder founder co founder

30
00:00:45,165 –> 00:00:46,155
[michelle_richter]: oh

31
00:00:46,058 –> 00:00:51,823
[paul_tyler]: of nuity research and consultant with her
co founder mark chamberlain michelle and mark welcome

32
00:00:53,504 –> 00:00:54,614
[paul_tyler]: oh

33
00:00:54,119 –> 00:00:54,320
[michelle_richter]: thank

34
00:00:54,203 –> 00:00:54,346
[mark_chamberlain]: thank

35
00:00:54,361 –> 00:00:54,441
[michelle_richter]: you

36
00:00:54,367 –> 00:00:54,469
[mark_chamberlain]: you

37
00:00:54,522 –> 00:00:54,804
[michelle_richter]: so much

38
00:00:54,716 –> 00:00:54,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

39
00:00:54,864 –> 00:00:55,549
[michelle_richter]: for having us

40
00:00:55,474 –> 00:00:56,716
[paul_tyler]: okay so before we dive

41
00:00:56,515 –> 00:00:57,118
[michelle_richter]: very exciting

42
00:00:56,836 –> 00:00:56,896
[paul_tyler]: in

43
00:00:57,178 –> 00:00:57,540
[michelle_richter]: to be here

44
00:00:57,557 –> 00:01:02,185
[paul_tyler]: i know you you have a message
i know which will want to get to

45
00:01:02,285 –> 00:01:03,086
[paul_tyler]: before we do that

46
00:01:04,005 –> 00:01:04,128
[michelle_richter]: yeah

47
00:01:04,248 –> 00:01:05,310
[paul_tyler]: okay you change your name a

48
00:01:05,342 –> 00:01:05,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

49
00:01:05,370 –> 00:01:10,600
[paul_tyler]: little bit with your firm tell us
what are you doing what’s just maybe a

50
00:01:10,780 –> 00:01:11,562
[paul_tyler]: thumbnail sketch

51
00:01:11,385 –> 00:01:13,065
[michelle_richter]: yeah

52
00:01:11,642 –> 00:01:14,469
[paul_tyler]: of your company you’re in your what
you re

53
00:01:14,458 –> 00:01:14,662
[michelle_richter]: sure

54
00:01:14,509 –> 00:01:15,632
[paul_tyler]: doing for a lot of good companies

55
00:01:15,405 –> 00:01:16,122
[michelle_richter]: yeah

56
00:01:15,416 –> 00:01:15,677
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

57
00:01:17,645 –> 00:01:18,547
[michelle_richter]: we’re doing

58
00:01:18,656 –> 00:01:18,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

59
00:01:18,707 –> 00:01:20,771
[michelle_richter]: annuity research and consulting

60
00:01:20,966 –> 00:01:22,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

61
00:01:21,532 –> 00:01:25,038
[michelle_richter]: m so we got really clever with
the name and we

62
00:01:25,043 –> 00:01:25,268
[mark_chamberlain]: yah

63
00:01:25,158 –> 00:01:27,081
[michelle_richter]: called it annuity research

64
00:01:27,104 –> 00:01:28,244
[paul_tyler]: yeah

65
00:01:27,161 –> 00:01:27,882
[michelle_richter]: and consulting

66
00:01:28,140 –> 00:01:28,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: h m

67
00:01:29,706 –> 00:01:32,670
[michelle_richter]: but like like lame insurance people would

68
00:01:32,931 –> 00:01:33,014
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

69
00:01:33,532 –> 00:01:34,473
[michelle_richter]: but but in all

70
00:01:34,466 –> 00:01:34,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

71
00:01:34,514 –> 00:01:43,177
[michelle_richter]: seriousness you know what what we’re up
to is an intention to bridge the communities

72
00:01:43,758 –> 00:01:50,469
[michelle_richter]: between plan advisors and between those who
are expert in the insurance space so we

73
00:01:50,569 –> 00:01:53,254
[michelle_richter]: very much have an intention of education

74
00:01:53,216 –> 00:01:54,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

75
00:01:53,795 –> 00:01:59,384
[michelle_richter]: of advocacy and of providing information for
plan

76
00:01:59,186 –> 00:01:59,430
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

77
00:01:59,464 –> 00:02:02,709
[michelle_richter]: advisors to then be able to safely

78
00:02:02,636 –> 00:02:02,920
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

79
00:02:02,850 –> 00:02:05,935
[michelle_richter]: recommend solutions that include ensure and

80
00:02:05,996 –> 00:02:06,258
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

81
00:02:06,108 –> 00:02:06,369
[bruno_caron]: oh

82
00:02:06,135 –> 00:02:07,198
[michelle_richter]: solutions in plan

83
00:02:07,523 –> 00:02:08,483
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

84
00:02:07,886 –> 00:02:08,189
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

85
00:02:08,180 –> 00:02:10,626
[michelle_richter]: um and i’d love to let mark
kind of tag

86
00:02:10,583 –> 00:02:11,183
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

87
00:02:10,726 –> 00:02:14,053
[michelle_richter]: along there to add to that thought
about our corporate vision

88
00:02:16,133 –> 00:02:21,659
[mark_chamberlain]: sure well good morning pleasure to be
with you and i’ve watched many episodes of

89
00:02:21,719 –> 00:02:21,859
[mark_chamberlain]: this

90
00:02:21,866 –> 00:02:21,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

91
00:02:21,919 –> 00:02:23,701
[mark_chamberlain]: show by the way so i’ve enjoyed

92
00:02:23,496 –> 00:02:23,821
[paul_tyler]: oh thank

93
00:02:23,761 –> 00:02:23,801
[mark_chamberlain]: it

94
00:02:23,795 –> 00:02:23,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

95
00:02:23,882 –> 00:02:23,983
[paul_tyler]: you

96
00:02:24,980 –> 00:02:25,284
[ramsey_d_smith]: welcome

97
00:02:26,443 –> 00:02:31,491
[mark_chamberlain]: thank you i got started down this
path in two thousand

98
00:02:32,756 –> 00:02:32,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

99
00:02:33,003 –> 00:02:37,289
[mark_chamberlain]: alking with paul just a bit before
the show at the time i had just

100
00:02:37,349 –> 00:02:40,548
[mark_chamberlain]: joined the ice sirs business before the
launch and

101
00:02:41,385 –> 00:02:41,587
[michelle_richter]: oh

102
00:02:41,894 –> 00:02:42,798
[mark_chamberlain]: went down to san

103
00:02:42,657 –> 00:02:42,678
[bruno_caron]: m

104
00:02:42,838 –> 00:02:43,662
[mark_chamberlain]: diego to meet with

105
00:02:43,664 –> 00:02:43,948
[paul_tyler]: oh

106
00:02:43,723 –> 00:02:46,884
[mark_chamberlain]: a company called frontier analytics which is
a software

107
00:02:46,706 –> 00:02:47,279
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

108
00:02:46,924 –> 00:02:47,265
[mark_chamberlain]: company

109
00:02:47,384 –> 00:02:47,666
[paul_tyler]: yeah

110
00:02:48,186 –> 00:02:54,156
[mark_chamberlain]: back then it was providing the asset
class optimization technology for a lot of the

111
00:02:54,236 –> 00:02:57,983
[mark_chamberlain]: broker dealer you know investment advisory platform

112
00:02:59,085 –> 00:02:59,105
[michelle_richter]: m

113
00:02:59,165 –> 00:02:59,906
[mark_chamberlain]: and at the time

114
00:03:00,588 –> 00:03:00,608
[bruno_caron]: m

115
00:03:00,828 –> 00:03:05,538
[mark_chamberlain]: index funds in general weren’t well integrated
into those systems they were primarily selling active

116
00:03:05,598 –> 00:03:08,494
[mark_chamberlain]: mutual funds and separate account managers and

117
00:03:08,495 –> 00:03:08,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

118
00:03:09,076 –> 00:03:09,096
[mark_chamberlain]: e

119
00:03:09,086 –> 00:03:09,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

120
00:03:09,196 –> 00:03:13,767
[mark_chamberlain]: ts weren’t integrated at all so that
was the challenge back then in two thousand

121
00:03:14,148 –> 00:03:18,836
[mark_chamberlain]: and on the board of that company
was harry marko wits and so i got

122
00:03:18,897 –> 00:03:22,763
[mark_chamberlain]: to meet him that day and was
invited back for a second meeting and the

123
00:03:22,843 –> 00:03:29,390
[mark_chamberlain]: topic that day was how do we
integrate annuities and mortality pooling into an acid

124
00:03:29,450 –> 00:03:33,066
[mark_chamberlain]: application optimization that was two thousand

125
00:03:33,708 –> 00:03:33,952
[bruno_caron]: yah

126
00:03:33,989 –> 00:03:34,110
[mark_chamberlain]: so

127
00:03:34,766 –> 00:03:34,786
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

128
00:03:35,103 –> 00:03:36,004
[mark_chamberlain]: we are in twenty twenty

129
00:03:35,816 –> 00:03:36,081
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

130
00:03:36,084 –> 00:03:41,113
[mark_chamberlain]: two in the industry still has not
figured that out and so when black rod

131
00:03:41,634 –> 00:03:47,003
[mark_chamberlain]: bought the ice sears business in in
well bought all of b in two thus

132
00:03:47,103 –> 00:03:50,853
[mark_chamberlain]: and nine and a lot of us
who had started the company or started the

133
00:03:50,873 –> 00:03:51,535
[mark_chamberlain]: business rather

134
00:03:51,435 –> 00:03:52,185
[michelle_richter]: oh

135
00:03:51,635 –> 00:03:55,635
[mark_chamberlain]: parishooted out at that point i was
looking for a similar challenge for

136
00:03:55,805 –> 00:03:55,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

137
00:03:55,975 –> 00:03:56,596
[mark_chamberlain]: you know how do we

138
00:03:56,915 –> 00:03:56,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

139
00:03:57,137 –> 00:04:02,226
[mark_chamberlain]: help the industry move forward and what’s
the next place to do that and so

140
00:04:02,286 –> 00:04:07,014
[mark_chamberlain]: i got started on trying to solve
the innuitization puzzle back in two thousand and

141
00:04:07,134 –> 00:04:07,374
[mark_chamberlain]: ten

142
00:04:07,750 –> 00:04:07,832
[paul_tyler]: ah

143
00:04:08,015 –> 00:04:08,156
[mark_chamberlain]: and

144
00:04:08,864 –> 00:04:09,110
[paul_tyler]: yea

145
00:04:09,217 –> 00:04:11,000
[mark_chamberlain]: michelle recruited me

146
00:04:11,924 –> 00:04:12,584
[paul_tyler]: yeah

147
00:04:12,142 –> 00:04:14,025
[mark_chamberlain]: this past summer we were both presenting
at

148
00:04:14,085 –> 00:04:14,288
[michelle_richter]: yeah

149
00:04:14,085 –> 00:04:18,052
[mark_chamberlain]: a at a conference for the new
board it’s the new center for

150
00:04:18,005 –> 00:04:18,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

151
00:04:18,112 –> 00:04:23,581
[mark_chamberlain]: board certified feduciaries which is as something
that was begun by a don trone who

152
00:04:23,641 –> 00:04:30,293
[mark_chamberlain]: originally founded f i three sixty and
the class was on integrating annuities into de

153
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[mark_chamberlain]: plants and shell and i both taught
classes at that at that at that particular

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[mark_chamberlain]: three day conference and she recruited me
to come help her try to try to

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[mark_chamberlain]: start a company to solve the problem

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[mark_chamberlain]: so that’s that’s the longer history of
how we got together

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: oh

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[paul_tyler]: you know it’s fascinating this business how
many amazing people touch and and drive so

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[paul_tyler]: many different career paths so yeah mark
wits wow

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[michelle_richter]: ye

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[paul_tyler]: how cool is that so michelle tell
don’t be bashful i know you are

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[bruno_caron]: just

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: well

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[michelle_richter]: complete

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[paul_tyler]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: wall flower

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[paul_tyler]: you are

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

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[paul_tyler]: not never

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: said no one especially

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[paul_tyler]: no one on linked in ever

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[paul_tyler]: said that

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: right

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[bruno_caron]: i

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[paul_tyler]: so all right

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah

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[paul_tyler]: how should we be looking at the
future of annuities okay future anuities in plan

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[paul_tyler]: futures of annuity you tell

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[michelle_richter]: a

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[paul_tyler]: us

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: yeah so so from from my point
of view what what i’m seeing you know

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[michelle_richter]: uh

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: with part of my time represent the
institutional

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[mark_chamberlain]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: retirement income council which is think a
non profit think tank operating in the defined

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[michelle_richter]: contribution space

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: and

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: and my opinions

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[ramsey_d_smith]: i

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[michelle_richter]: that i express here today are necessarily
my own and not for say comforting with

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00:06:07,142 –> 00:06:12,912
[michelle_richter]: those of either the iris or any
of its member companies okay but so in

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[michelle_richter]: this position i hear a lot about
what going on in space and and i

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[michelle_richter]: also facilitate consortion of retirement

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[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: income providers that has been established through

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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: broad ridge f three sixty um so
so i have the opportunity to hear a

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00:06:31,062 –> 00:06:36,551
[michelle_richter]: lot of what’s going on behind the
scenes as the industry really prepares for what

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[michelle_richter]: is expected to be massive movement towards
annuities and plan some of the attributes that

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00:06:45,786 –> 00:06:52,478
[michelle_richter]: i see as necessary right now for
this field to take off include um annuities

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00:06:52,618 –> 00:06:59,069
[michelle_richter]: need to be included within what in
the qualify or in the d c d

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[michelle_richter]: c being defined contribution by the way
space

220
00:07:02,216 –> 00:07:02,297
[paul_tyler]: ah

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00:07:02,995 –> 00:07:10,427
[michelle_richter]: you know we we need for annuities
to be incorporated into qualified default investment alternatives

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[michelle_richter]: for them with offdout provisions of course
for them to

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: have real main stream success

225
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:07:17,946 –> 00:07:21,792
[michelle_richter]: we need data for mat standardization

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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: to be undertaken

229
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

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[michelle_richter]: by an industry

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[bruno_caron]: oh

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[michelle_richter]: organization like

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: spark for example it is the industry
organization for record keepers and it is in

235
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[michelle_richter]: conversation with libra

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[bruno_caron]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: about

238
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[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

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[michelle_richter]: how to accomplish some of those jectives
where because historically you know record keepers didn’t

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[michelle_richter]: talk to annuity companies and annuity companies
didn’t talk to record keepers so

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00:07:50,696 –> 00:07:52,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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00:07:50,861 –> 00:07:59,735
[michelle_richter]: that to the data connactivitythat is necessary
for reporting annuity elements it benefit elements to

243
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[michelle_richter]: the end participant like that infrastructure

244
00:08:02,816 –> 00:08:03,565
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

245
00:08:03,261 –> 00:08:10,273
[michelle_richter]: isn’t there yet so some of that
is needs to be addressed for there to

246
00:08:10,333 –> 00:08:14,139
[michelle_richter]: be a wide scale and then lastly
fiduciary

247
00:08:13,496 –> 00:08:13,844
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

248
00:08:14,240 –> 00:08:20,811
[michelle_richter]: concerns need to be satisfied because plan
sponsors and those who advise them serve in

249
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[michelle_richter]: a fiduciary capacity and the concerns that
i’m hearing about how advisors can introduce annuities

250
00:08:29,325 –> 00:08:30,607
[michelle_richter]: plan are

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00:08:30,695 –> 00:08:30,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:08:31,328 –> 00:08:39,782
[michelle_richter]: more materially about ongoing monitoring than they
are about initial introduction where there’s there is

253
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[michelle_richter]: certainly a need within the plan advisory
community to get access to basic information about

254
00:08:49,819 –> 00:08:56,227
[michelle_richter]: about products but our product our industries
products but but i am hearing as i

255
00:08:56,287 –> 00:09:00,611
[michelle_richter]: said less concerned about how to get
enough information to be able to make an

256
00:09:00,671 –> 00:09:00,991
[michelle_richter]: initial

257
00:09:00,678 –> 00:09:01,668
[bruno_caron]: yeah

258
00:09:00,866 –> 00:09:01,070
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

259
00:09:01,051 –> 00:09:02,653
[michelle_richter]: recommendation than i

260
00:09:02,756 –> 00:09:03,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

261
00:09:02,873 –> 00:09:06,778
[michelle_richter]: am about things like how will i
know what renewal

262
00:09:06,746 –> 00:09:06,987
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

263
00:09:06,898 –> 00:09:08,661
[michelle_richter]: rates on indexinuities

264
00:09:08,546 –> 00:09:08,849
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

265
00:09:08,861 –> 00:09:14,611
[michelle_richter]: actually turn out to be since i’m
making this recommendation that needs to be monitored

266
00:09:14,671 –> 00:09:19,931
[michelle_richter]: on an ongoing basis so this the
kind of information that’s going to be necessary

267
00:09:20,665 –> 00:09:27,516
[michelle_richter]: within the plan advisory community for our
product lines to take off and it’s looking

268
00:09:27,616 –> 00:09:29,539
[michelle_richter]: to me like that’s going to be
the case

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[bruno_caron]: m

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[michelle_richter]: so we should all prepare accordingly um
i’d like to let mark pitch you on

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[michelle_richter]: why we should

272
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[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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[michelle_richter]: all prepare accordingly

274
00:09:39,146 –> 00:09:40,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

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[michelle_richter]: because you know my view is that
you know as it stands right now and

276
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[michelle_richter]: i’ll go deeper on this a couple
of

277
00:09:46,946 –> 00:09:46,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

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00:09:46,995 –> 00:09:52,384
[michelle_richter]: minutes but you know as the community
stands right now amongst

279
00:09:52,608 –> 00:09:52,871
[bruno_caron]: oh

280
00:09:52,625 –> 00:09:58,935
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors as i mentioned plan advisors
they advise plans d c plans

281
00:09:59,036 –> 00:09:59,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

282
00:09:59,095 –> 00:10:02,838
[michelle_richter]: are inherently accumulation focused it’s never been
the

283
00:10:02,795 –> 00:10:02,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

284
00:10:02,919 –> 00:10:11,668
[michelle_richter]: responsibility of a plan advisor to understand
decumulation because historically plant sponsors did not want

285
00:10:11,768 –> 00:10:12,409
[michelle_richter]: to retain

286
00:10:12,296 –> 00:10:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

287
00:10:12,650 –> 00:10:19,862
[michelle_richter]: assets through participants retirement but that dynamic
has changed dramatically in the last five to

288
00:10:19,922 –> 00:10:25,251
[michelle_richter]: ten years and it’s it in large
part of function of record keeping fee structures

289
00:10:26,413 –> 00:10:31,962
[michelle_richter]: and there being economies of scale to
keeping participants in plan but it also has

290
00:10:32,042 –> 00:10:37,511
[michelle_richter]: to do with some regulatority since um
and it just is the case now that

291
00:10:37,631 –> 00:10:41,939
[michelle_richter]: plan advisors need to become more expert
and how to address the

292
00:10:41,908 –> 00:10:42,031
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

293
00:10:41,979 –> 00:10:46,049
[michelle_richter]: decumulation phase so this whole um

294
00:10:46,246 –> 00:10:46,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: michele i’ve

295
00:10:46,734 –> 00:10:46,754
[michelle_richter]: m

296
00:10:46,746 –> 00:10:47,207
[ramsey_d_smith]: got a i’ve

297
00:10:47,237 –> 00:10:47,742
[michelle_richter]: community

298
00:10:47,247 –> 00:10:48,369
[ramsey_d_smith]: got i’ve got a quick

299
00:10:48,288 –> 00:10:48,449
[michelle_richter]: yeah

300
00:10:48,429 –> 00:10:48,730
[ramsey_d_smith]: question

301
00:10:48,480 –> 00:10:48,520
[bruno_caron]: a

302
00:10:48,790 –> 00:10:49,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: if if

303
00:10:49,216 –> 00:10:49,318
[michelle_richter]: oh

304
00:10:49,271 –> 00:10:50,192
[ramsey_d_smith]: i may because i think

305
00:10:50,178 –> 00:10:50,441
[bruno_caron]: oh

306
00:10:50,785 –> 00:10:51,027
[michelle_richter]: yes

307
00:10:50,873 –> 00:10:51,274
[ramsey_d_smith]: there’s there’s

308
00:10:51,329 –> 00:10:51,651
[michelle_richter]: please

309
00:10:51,474 –> 00:10:57,124
[ramsey_d_smith]: two interesting elements of what you’ve just
said so one is let’s talk a little

310
00:10:57,144 –> 00:11:00,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: bit about what is it plan advisor
look like right so right

311
00:11:00,759 –> 00:11:00,841
[michelle_richter]: ah

312
00:11:00,770 –> 00:11:00,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: there

313
00:11:00,773 –> 00:11:01,463
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

314
00:11:01,050 –> 00:11:01,491
[ramsey_d_smith]: there there’s

315
00:11:01,476 –> 00:11:01,557
[michelle_richter]: ah

316
00:11:01,531 –> 00:11:06,439
[ramsey_d_smith]: a broad spectrum of four one k
plans the small ones they’re big ones so

317
00:11:07,381 –> 00:11:12,210
[ramsey_d_smith]: we talk about plan advisors we’re talking
about r a are we talking about sort

318
00:11:12,270 –> 00:11:13,713
[ramsey_d_smith]: of large consultancies

319
00:11:13,605 –> 00:11:13,846
[michelle_richter]: yeah

320
00:11:13,813 –> 00:11:15,456
[ramsey_d_smith]: like like like a milliment or

321
00:11:15,814 –> 00:11:15,975
[michelle_richter]: yeah

322
00:11:15,857 –> 00:11:17,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: what is the what is the what
is the scope

323
00:11:18,145 –> 00:11:18,347
[michelle_richter]: yes

324
00:11:18,442 –> 00:11:19,204
[ramsey_d_smith]: people that we’re talking

325
00:11:19,125 –> 00:11:19,289
[michelle_richter]: oh

326
00:11:19,264 –> 00:11:19,444
[ramsey_d_smith]: about

327
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:21,968
[michelle_richter]: the answer is yes and yes

328
00:11:22,116 –> 00:11:22,136
[ramsey_d_smith]: a

329
00:11:22,409 –> 00:11:23,290
[michelle_richter]: right so the

330
00:11:24,326 –> 00:11:24,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

331
00:11:24,672 –> 00:11:28,158
[michelle_richter]: the people who serve plans can can
be

332
00:11:28,985 –> 00:11:29,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

333
00:11:29,260 –> 00:11:29,701
[michelle_richter]: typically

334
00:11:29,726 –> 00:11:29,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

335
00:11:29,821 –> 00:11:31,764
[michelle_richter]: larger plans work with a

336
00:11:32,006 –> 00:11:32,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

337
00:11:32,025 –> 00:11:33,046
[michelle_richter]: sultan that has

338
00:11:33,154 –> 00:11:33,296
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

339
00:11:33,487 –> 00:11:33,687
[michelle_richter]: home

340
00:11:33,626 –> 00:11:33,909
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

341
00:11:33,808 –> 00:11:37,975
[michelle_richter]: office support working for an organization

342
00:11:37,899 –> 00:11:37,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

343
00:11:38,135 –> 00:11:41,320
[michelle_richter]: that is principally focused on plan advisement

344
00:11:42,005 –> 00:11:42,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

345
00:11:42,482 –> 00:11:47,010
[michelle_richter]: whereas retirement and advisors so so you’d
call those people consultants

346
00:11:47,360 –> 00:11:47,381
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

347
00:11:47,651 –> 00:11:48,292
[michelle_richter]: whereas you’d

348
00:11:48,215 –> 00:11:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

349
00:11:48,372 –> 00:11:48,572
[michelle_richter]: call

350
00:11:48,498 –> 00:11:48,740
[bruno_caron]: oh

351
00:11:48,692 –> 00:11:55,404
[michelle_richter]: an advisor a person who probably works
with a smaller shop and may be on

352
00:11:55,464 –> 00:11:59,877
[michelle_richter]: their own um and that always is
performed

353
00:11:59,450 –> 00:11:59,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

354
00:11:59,977 –> 00:12:01,683
[michelle_richter]: through a registered investment advisor

355
00:12:02,327 –> 00:12:03,090
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what would be the

356
00:12:03,026 –> 00:12:05,253
[michelle_richter]: but but they’re not per se wealth
managers

357
00:12:05,236 –> 00:12:09,741
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure and what and what sort of
size of what size of plans would they

358
00:12:09,801 –> 00:12:10,302
[ramsey_d_smith]: be typically

359
00:12:11,475 –> 00:12:11,717
[michelle_richter]: yeah

360
00:12:12,044 –> 00:12:12,545
[ramsey_d_smith]: advising

361
00:12:12,323 –> 00:12:12,444
[michelle_richter]: yeah

362
00:12:13,596 –> 00:12:13,963
[ramsey_d_smith]: a park

363
00:12:14,207 –> 00:12:18,414
[michelle_richter]: so the consultants might be looking in
the billion dollar range

364
00:12:18,299 –> 00:12:18,319
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

365
00:12:18,447 –> 00:12:18,468
[bruno_caron]: m

366
00:12:18,534 –> 00:12:19,916
[michelle_richter]: right and advisors

367
00:12:19,715 –> 00:12:19,736
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

368
00:12:20,036 –> 00:12:24,884
[michelle_richter]: are you know likely addressing the market
below that i mean that certainly

369
00:12:25,208 –> 00:12:25,432
[ramsey_d_smith]: sure

370
00:12:25,405 –> 00:12:27,009
[michelle_richter]: a hard and fast rule but

371
00:12:27,896 –> 00:12:28,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

372
00:12:28,031 –> 00:12:29,233
[michelle_richter]: you know ball park

373
00:12:29,486 –> 00:12:33,453
[ramsey_d_smith]: so so the next next piece is
that i think it’s very interesting following that

374
00:12:33,533 –> 00:12:38,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: is the the it’s it’s it’s an
important business for a lot of r s

375
00:12:39,443 –> 00:12:43,661
[ramsey_d_smith]: and what you’re saying is that where
before it might have been a business that

376
00:12:43,721 –> 00:12:50,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: was that was limited to sort of
the accumulation phase now there’s this retention opportunity

377
00:12:51,237 –> 00:12:55,524
[ramsey_d_smith]: all the way into retirement it’s an
important business opportunity as well for that for

378
00:12:55,544 –> 00:12:57,111
[ramsey_d_smith]: that aeneisthatis that fair statement

379
00:12:58,806 –> 00:13:03,434
[michelle_richter]: it is a fair statement and it
is half of the reason why i’m here

380
00:13:03,514 –> 00:13:04,796
[michelle_richter]: today it’s because

381
00:13:04,458 –> 00:13:04,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

382
00:13:04,876 –> 00:13:06,599
[michelle_richter]: i believe that my people

383
00:13:06,326 –> 00:13:06,748
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

384
00:13:06,759 –> 00:13:08,642
[michelle_richter]: have a place within this community

385
00:13:08,817 –> 00:13:08,919
[ramsey_d_smith]: eh

386
00:13:09,664 –> 00:13:10,906
[michelle_richter]: it the case that

387
00:13:10,840 –> 00:13:10,860
[bruno_caron]: i

388
00:13:11,627 –> 00:13:15,013
[michelle_richter]: retirement plan advisors don’t know annuities right

389
00:13:15,116 –> 00:13:15,357
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

390
00:13:15,193 –> 00:13:21,864
[michelle_richter]: with everybody certainly knows that that’s the
case and arica does require for experts

391
00:13:21,858 –> 00:13:22,616
[bruno_caron]: ye

392
00:13:22,045 –> 00:13:27,834
[michelle_richter]: who are advising a plan if they
do not have experts in a certain arena

393
00:13:27,914 –> 00:13:33,644
[michelle_richter]: that they think is important for the
plan then an every side adviser is required

394
00:13:33,744 –> 00:13:34,726
[michelle_richter]: to contract with

395
00:13:34,766 –> 00:13:35,199
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

396
00:13:34,786 –> 00:13:42,158
[michelle_richter]: an outside expert to to give them
guidance on how to review those you know

397
00:13:42,198 –> 00:13:50,212
[michelle_richter]: those solutions so you know from my
view i think that there is a need

398
00:13:50,612 –> 00:13:59,748
[michelle_richter]: for insurance experts to get ready to
help plan advisors to evaluate insurance contract that’s

399
00:13:59,828 –> 00:14:04,015
[michelle_richter]: at the heart of what mark and
i will be doing as early as february

400
00:14:03,995 –> 00:14:04,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

401
00:14:04,776 –> 00:14:06,038
[michelle_richter]: and and i

402
00:14:06,149 –> 00:14:06,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

403
00:14:06,178 –> 00:14:08,202
[michelle_richter]: feel that we will not

404
00:14:08,036 –> 00:14:08,278
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

405
00:14:08,302 –> 00:14:11,347
[michelle_richter]: be able to dress all of the
demand

406
00:14:11,246 –> 00:14:11,527
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

407
00:14:11,527 –> 00:14:16,375
[michelle_richter]: ourselves for such services because plan advisors
do not

408
00:14:16,304 –> 00:14:16,645
[paul_tyler]: oh

409
00:14:16,455 –> 00:14:24,611
[michelle_richter]: have that expertise my imagination is that
building models or that kind of expertise will

410
00:14:24,772 –> 00:14:32,178
[michelle_richter]: be hourly or project based or subscription
based and so if that is the case

411
00:14:32,559 –> 00:14:38,248
[michelle_richter]: here cannot be commissions paid in an
aria context so it seems to me

412
00:14:38,156 –> 00:14:38,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

413
00:14:38,449 –> 00:14:41,113
[michelle_richter]: that the guidance that is going to
be necessary

414
00:14:40,766 –> 00:14:41,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

415
00:14:41,213 –> 00:14:42,375
[michelle_richter]: is going to be livered

416
00:14:42,725 –> 00:14:42,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

417
00:14:42,816 –> 00:14:45,220
[michelle_richter]: v one of the mechanisms i just
described

418
00:14:45,515 –> 00:14:45,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

419
00:14:45,618 –> 00:14:45,699
[paul_tyler]: ay

420
00:14:45,821 –> 00:14:47,764
[michelle_richter]: and to me it appears that the

421
00:14:47,898 –> 00:14:47,918
[bruno_caron]: m

422
00:14:47,964 –> 00:14:50,388
[michelle_richter]: form of entity qualified to do such

423
00:14:50,273 –> 00:14:50,495
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

424
00:14:50,689 –> 00:14:56,539
[michelle_richter]: is an r a m and that’s
the reason why i have used my for

425
00:14:56,579 –> 00:14:59,604
[michelle_richter]: that purpose and and i

426
00:14:59,876 –> 00:15:00,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

427
00:14:59,924 –> 00:15:01,467
[michelle_richter]: think that plan advisers

428
00:15:01,001 –> 00:15:01,084
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

429
00:15:01,607 –> 00:15:06,896
[michelle_richter]: will desire for the counter party that
they interact with to also b fiduciary

430
00:15:07,195 –> 00:15:07,357
[paul_tyler]: yeah

431
00:15:07,838 –> 00:15:14,449
[michelle_richter]: an annuity fediciary for which i applied
for a trade mark because insurance fiduciary is

432
00:15:14,649 –> 00:15:21,082
[michelle_richter]: already trade marked by one man who
will prevent others from using that mark who

433
00:15:21,262 –> 00:15:25,412
[michelle_richter]: did in fact do so with me
which is the reason why my entity is

434
00:15:25,512 –> 00:15:25,933
[michelle_richter]: renamed

435
00:15:26,399 –> 00:15:26,560
[ramsey_d_smith]: other

436
00:15:26,588 –> 00:15:26,772
[paul_tyler]: work

437
00:15:26,620 –> 00:15:28,871
[ramsey_d_smith]: than owning the name does he actually
perform that function

438
00:15:31,406 –> 00:15:32,490
[michelle_richter]: i decline to comment

439
00:15:32,286 –> 00:15:32,506
[ramsey_d_smith]: okay

440
00:15:32,590 –> 00:15:33,293
[michelle_richter]: on the individual

441
00:15:33,749 –> 00:15:33,949
[ramsey_d_smith]: i just

442
00:15:34,067 –> 00:15:34,288
[paul_tyler]: okay

443
00:15:34,350 –> 00:15:34,451
[ramsey_d_smith]: just

444
00:15:34,749 –> 00:15:35,732
[paul_tyler]: well and let me

445
00:15:35,693 –> 00:15:35,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: go

446
00:15:35,773 –> 00:15:35,913
[paul_tyler]: just

447
00:15:35,814 –> 00:15:35,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: ahead

448
00:15:36,475 –> 00:15:38,381
[paul_tyler]: be even a little more specific for
a listener so

449
00:15:38,605 –> 00:15:42,652
[michelle_richter]: i hold a patent my former employer
holds a patent

450
00:15:42,473 –> 00:15:42,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

451
00:15:42,792 –> 00:15:44,135
[michelle_richter]: on intellectual property

452
00:15:44,186 –> 00:15:44,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

453
00:15:44,275 –> 00:15:51,908
[michelle_richter]: that i invented imbedding life insurance and
annuities into holistic acid application to challenge mark

454
00:15:52,629 –> 00:15:54,592
[michelle_richter]: who said that it can be done

455
00:15:54,657 –> 00:15:54,678
[bruno_caron]: m

456
00:15:54,732 –> 00:15:55,614
[michelle_richter]: it can be done

457
00:15:55,526 –> 00:15:55,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

458
00:15:56,075 –> 00:16:01,704
[michelle_richter]: it was done and yet i cannot
call myself an insurance fiduciary i can call

459
00:16:01,804 –> 00:16:02,568
[michelle_richter]: myself an annuity

460
00:16:02,594 –> 00:16:03,002
[paul_tyler]: uh

461
00:16:02,628 –> 00:16:03,131
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

462
00:16:04,174 –> 00:16:10,845
[paul_tyler]: well and i’ll say for my experience
providing financial planning

463
00:16:10,826 –> 00:16:11,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

464
00:16:10,986 –> 00:16:14,932
[paul_tyler]: support inside of corporate structure is immensely
complicated only from

465
00:16:14,876 –> 00:16:14,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

466
00:16:14,972 –> 00:16:17,657
[paul_tyler]: a legal perspect but a practical perspective

467
00:16:17,195 –> 00:16:17,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

468
00:16:17,737 –> 00:16:18,558
[paul_tyler]: of working with a

469
00:16:18,623 –> 00:16:18,643
[mark_chamberlain]: m

470
00:16:18,638 –> 00:16:23,406
[paul_tyler]: wide variety of employes so when you
talk about a plan advisor or an annuity

471
00:16:23,526 –> 00:16:30,658
[paul_tyler]: specialist is the client the and sponsor
or is the client the individuals and the

472
00:16:30,698 –> 00:16:33,242
[paul_tyler]: corporation or individuals inside the plan

473
00:16:35,228 –> 00:16:41,754
[michelle_richter]: i it’s a great question i would
argue there’s three clients there is the plan

474
00:16:41,814 –> 00:16:44,619
[michelle_richter]: advisor who makes the determination

475
00:16:44,036 –> 00:16:44,379
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

476
00:16:44,719 –> 00:16:46,843
[michelle_richter]: of how to select other service providers

477
00:16:46,406 –> 00:16:46,710
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

478
00:16:47,764 –> 00:16:53,996
[michelle_richter]: there the plan itself and there are
the participants in the plan and the person

479
00:16:54,076 –> 00:16:58,404
[michelle_richter]: who’s giving the guidance has to be
thinking about all of those constituencies

480
00:17:00,266 –> 00:17:01,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

481
00:17:00,914 –> 00:17:05,402
[paul_tyler]: i guess is that is that like
is that possible right i think of the

482
00:17:06,023 –> 00:17:11,111
[paul_tyler]: thou think of the challenge s just
to get the enrollment you mentioned i think

483
00:17:11,351 –> 00:17:13,617
[paul_tyler]: michelle you favor an din into this

484
00:17:13,770 –> 00:17:13,991
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

485
00:17:14,158 –> 00:17:15,221
[paul_tyler]: into the process

486
00:17:15,317 –> 00:17:17,069
[michelle_richter]: yeah i favor

487
00:17:16,828 –> 00:17:17,010
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

488
00:17:17,170 –> 00:17:17,532
[michelle_richter]: up doubt

489
00:17:17,794 –> 00:17:21,735
[paul_tyler]: ped out lopped out perfect world

490
00:17:21,836 –> 00:17:21,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

491
00:17:21,875 –> 00:17:22,336
[paul_tyler]: what’s the

492
00:17:22,648 –> 00:17:24,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm oh

493
00:17:23,818 –> 00:17:24,539
[paul_tyler]: ramsey gives us

494
00:17:24,678 –> 00:17:25,338
[bruno_caron]: yeah

495
00:17:24,720 –> 00:17:25,421
[paul_tyler]: the tuns up on

496
00:17:25,376 –> 00:17:25,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

497
00:17:25,461 –> 00:17:25,782
[paul_tyler]: that one

498
00:17:26,298 –> 00:17:26,765
[bruno_caron]: uh

499
00:17:26,885 –> 00:17:26,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

500
00:17:27,384 –> 00:17:27,685
[paul_tyler]: perfect

501
00:17:27,537 –> 00:17:27,558
[bruno_caron]: h

502
00:17:27,785 –> 00:17:28,065
[paul_tyler]: world

503
00:17:28,076 –> 00:17:29,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

504
00:17:28,787 –> 00:17:30,249
[paul_tyler]: what is that number like

505
00:17:30,678 –> 00:17:31,398
[bruno_caron]: yeah

506
00:17:30,730 –> 00:17:31,531
[paul_tyler]: does everybody have

507
00:17:31,673 –> 00:17:31,693
[mark_chamberlain]: m

508
00:17:32,235 –> 00:17:32,457
[michelle_richter]: oh

509
00:17:32,513 –> 00:17:34,276
[paul_tyler]: five percent their assets between thirty

510
00:17:34,233 –> 00:17:34,395
[michelle_richter]: yeah

511
00:17:34,316 –> 00:17:37,661
[paul_tyler]: and forty in this annuity is that
then you get to fifty and sixty you’ve

512
00:17:37,681 –> 00:17:38,022
[paul_tyler]: got ten

513
00:17:38,696 –> 00:17:39,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

514
00:17:39,174 –> 00:17:39,595
[paul_tyler]: what’s your

515
00:17:40,095 –> 00:17:40,438
[michelle_richter]: oh

516
00:17:40,377 –> 00:17:40,538
[paul_tyler]: if you

517
00:17:40,466 –> 00:17:40,667
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

518
00:17:40,558 –> 00:17:41,280
[paul_tyler]: were righting a lot what

519
00:17:41,185 –> 00:17:41,287
[michelle_richter]: the

520
00:17:41,320 –> 00:17:41,460
[paul_tyler]: would

521
00:17:41,449 –> 00:17:41,753
[michelle_richter]: answer

522
00:17:41,500 –> 00:17:41,701
[paul_tyler]: it be

523
00:17:43,726 –> 00:17:44,787
[michelle_richter]: well i’m actually going to

524
00:17:44,808 –> 00:17:45,072
[bruno_caron]: yeah

525
00:17:44,847 –> 00:17:48,373
[michelle_richter]: have mark answer this because our organization
takes

526
00:17:48,533 –> 00:17:48,901
[mark_chamberlain]: my

527
00:17:48,554 –> 00:17:53,261
[michelle_richter]: a view point around how the stages
that we think you’re supposed to look at

528
00:17:53,742 –> 00:17:55,525
[michelle_richter]: as a plan advisor then

529
00:17:55,886 –> 00:17:56,208
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

530
00:17:56,327 –> 00:18:02,270
[michelle_richter]: it’s through that lens that you’re supposed
to then think about products all you mark

531
00:18:04,343 –> 00:18:07,807
[mark_chamberlain]: we didn’t see that one coming but
i’ll give

532
00:18:07,695 –> 00:18:07,957
[michelle_richter]: uh

533
00:18:07,867 –> 00:18:08,227
[mark_chamberlain]: it a shot

534
00:18:08,298 –> 00:18:08,579
[bruno_caron]: my

535
00:18:08,644 –> 00:18:08,685
[michelle_richter]: uh

536
00:18:08,945 –> 00:18:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

537
00:18:09,589 –> 00:18:12,945
[mark_chamberlain]: my perspective on all of this is
that

538
00:18:13,835 –> 00:18:13,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

539
00:18:14,913 –> 00:18:22,454
[mark_chamberlain]: open architecture approach to providing institutional quality
diligence and consulting means that

540
00:18:23,366 –> 00:18:23,547
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

541
00:18:23,395 –> 00:18:29,735
[mark_chamberlain]: there is no best solution there are
only trade offs and one of the possible

542
00:18:30,375 –> 00:18:31,497
[mark_chamberlain]: conclusions that a board

543
00:18:31,526 –> 00:18:31,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

544
00:18:31,597 –> 00:18:34,620
[mark_chamberlain]: can reach is that bringing an annuity
inside the

545
00:18:34,555 –> 00:18:34,655
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

546
00:18:34,660 –> 00:18:35,361
[mark_chamberlain]: plan isn’t the

547
00:18:35,366 –> 00:18:35,647
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

548
00:18:35,421 –> 00:18:38,919
[mark_chamberlain]: best decision for them it has to
be one of the options on the table

549
00:18:38,996 –> 00:18:39,241
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

550
00:18:39,401 –> 00:18:44,218
[mark_chamberlain]: and the consultant has to be ready
to support that and educated in such a

551
00:18:44,278 –> 00:18:45,645
[mark_chamberlain]: way that that’s that’s actually

552
00:18:45,447 –> 00:18:45,528
[michelle_richter]: ah

553
00:18:45,786 –> 00:18:51,448
[mark_chamberlain]: considered oh in an unbiased way so
that’s a little bit

554
00:18:51,408 –> 00:18:51,428
[bruno_caron]: m

555
00:18:51,488 –> 00:18:57,246
[mark_chamberlain]: of a constraint on who’s going to
be considered the outside expert and that gets

556
00:18:57,326 –> 00:18:59,551
[mark_chamberlain]: to the heart of michel’s point of

557
00:19:00,686 –> 00:19:01,110
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

558
00:19:00,693 –> 00:19:04,201
[mark_chamberlain]: the right way to compensate this kind
of an expert isn’t based on a product

559
00:19:04,301 –> 00:19:08,650
[mark_chamberlain]: sale the only way you’re going to
get truly objectivity is if they’re they’re paid

560
00:19:08,730 –> 00:19:10,514
[mark_chamberlain]: a consulting a hard dollar consulting fee

561
00:19:10,695 –> 00:19:10,916
[michelle_richter]: oh

562
00:19:11,476 –> 00:19:19,699
[mark_chamberlain]: so with that said no is it
optimal to try and say to a plant

563
00:19:19,655 –> 00:19:19,676
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

564
00:19:19,739 –> 00:19:26,971
[mark_chamberlain]: participant you should have ex percent defaulted
into this solution well that gets into the

565
00:19:27,051 –> 00:19:29,785
[mark_chamberlain]: triage what stage is the participant

566
00:19:29,345 –> 00:19:29,366
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

567
00:19:30,007 –> 00:19:34,636
[mark_chamberlain]: in and their financial planning are they
the accumulation

568
00:19:34,556 –> 00:19:34,818
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

569
00:19:34,716 –> 00:19:35,017
[mark_chamberlain]: phase

570
00:19:35,088 –> 00:19:36,198
[bruno_caron]: yeah

571
00:19:35,118 –> 00:19:38,491
[mark_chamberlain]: are they in the near retirement phase
or are they going to retire next year

572
00:19:39,623 –> 00:19:44,651
[mark_chamberlain]: and so that’s probably the first the
first conversation for

573
00:19:44,486 –> 00:19:45,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah m

574
00:19:45,893 –> 00:19:49,599
[mark_chamberlain]: the expert to have with the board
is what stage do you want to solve

575
00:19:49,679 –> 00:19:54,633
[mark_chamberlain]: for in your plan you want to
try and put something in place that will

576
00:19:54,733 –> 00:19:59,181
[mark_chamberlain]: fit those who are in the most
urgent need which are those people that are

577
00:19:59,221 –> 00:20:01,965
[mark_chamberlain]: retiring this year next year the year
after

578
00:20:02,636 –> 00:20:03,299
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

579
00:20:02,847 –> 00:20:09,201
[mark_chamberlain]: and so there are they’ve got some
educational needs about how to think about putting

580
00:20:09,261 –> 00:20:14,124
[mark_chamberlain]: together a retirement income plan that can
not only be secure for them in an

581
00:20:14,224 –> 00:20:19,293
[mark_chamberlain]: inflationary environment but in possibly a deflationary
environment also and you have to be able

582
00:20:19,373 –> 00:20:27,210
[mark_chamberlain]: to do some serious education about where
annuities fit relative systematic withdrawal and then you

583
00:20:27,250 –> 00:20:29,559
[mark_chamberlain]: have to be able to do a
deep dive from there on what kind of

584
00:20:29,639 –> 00:20:35,330
[mark_chamberlain]: ininuuity and if we focus on the
only decumulation then we need to do a

585
00:20:35,390 –> 00:20:40,619
[mark_chamberlain]: deep dive on spes versus riders versus
you know the various ways of generating lifetime

586
00:20:40,699 –> 00:20:45,549
[mark_chamberlain]: income so there is no answer to
the question of you know how do we

587
00:20:45,609 –> 00:20:50,921
[mark_chamberlain]: come up with a one size fits
all solution because it’s much too complicated for

588
00:20:50,961 –> 00:20:51,101
[mark_chamberlain]: that

589
00:20:52,189 –> 00:20:56,115
[bruno_caron]: and that makes perfect sense in terms
of trade off i love the way you

590
00:20:56,195 –> 00:21:00,743
[bruno_caron]: put it in terms of you know
there is no right solution there’s no one

591
00:21:01,825 –> 00:21:06,392
[bruno_caron]: one right answer because quite frankly if
there was we wouldn’t be talking about it

592
00:21:06,432 –> 00:21:06,773
[bruno_caron]: right now

593
00:21:07,553 –> 00:21:07,573
[mark_chamberlain]: m

594
00:21:07,554 –> 00:21:14,546
[bruno_caron]: and my question is have you looked
at or found a way to obviously there’s

595
00:21:14,606 –> 00:21:19,073
[bruno_caron]: a classical measure of you know assets
on their management x per cent of your

596
00:21:19,133 –> 00:21:24,462
[bruno_caron]: your portfolio should be you know allocated
one way one way or the other but

597
00:21:24,743 –> 00:21:30,753
[bruno_caron]: is there a way to to do
that exact same reasoning that exactly framework with

598
00:21:30,913 –> 00:21:32,776
[bruno_caron]: income and how much income

599
00:21:33,905 –> 00:21:33,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

600
00:21:34,219 –> 00:21:36,582
[bruno_caron]: on you know the set of all
of your

601
00:21:36,935 –> 00:21:36,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

602
00:21:36,963 –> 00:21:42,233
[bruno_caron]: your your assets would act or your
portfolio would would generate

603
00:21:44,132 –> 00:21:44,274
[mark_chamberlain]: what

604
00:21:44,295 –> 00:21:47,180
[michelle_richter]: i think there are lots of ways
to do that and it’s always going to

605
00:21:47,220 –> 00:21:49,564
[michelle_richter]: be a question and mark you should
disagree

606
00:21:49,166 –> 00:21:49,467
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

607
00:21:49,624 –> 00:21:54,633
[michelle_richter]: with me if this is not your
opinion but you know mark always tells me

608
00:21:54,833 –> 00:21:57,558
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary is t process right so

609
00:21:57,783 –> 00:21:57,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

610
00:21:57,958 –> 00:22:00,002
[michelle_richter]: there’s a million ways that you can

611
00:22:00,128 –> 00:22:00,169
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

612
00:22:00,522 –> 00:22:01,164
[michelle_richter]: do exactly

613
00:22:01,145 –> 00:22:01,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

614
00:22:01,204 –> 00:22:01,985
[michelle_richter]: what you’re describing

615
00:22:01,707 –> 00:22:01,728
[bruno_caron]: m

616
00:22:01,917 –> 00:22:01,999
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

617
00:22:02,025 –> 00:22:04,068
[michelle_richter]: brune and as long as when you’re

618
00:22:03,923 –> 00:22:04,105
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

619
00:22:04,128 –> 00:22:05,651
[michelle_richter]: acting in a futiary capacity

620
00:22:05,606 –> 00:22:05,950
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

621
00:22:05,771 –> 00:22:10,242
[michelle_richter]: as long as you document how you
did it and you did it you’re in

622
00:22:10,302 –> 00:22:10,763
[michelle_richter]: good hands

623
00:22:13,285 –> 00:22:17,898
[mark_chamberlain]: i spent the last ten years working
on a think tank project that i started

624
00:22:17,955 –> 00:22:18,178
[michelle_richter]: yeah

625
00:22:17,978 –> 00:22:22,485
[mark_chamberlain]: in two thousand ten and the objective
was to try and get l d to

626
00:22:22,545 –> 00:22:26,585
[mark_chamberlain]: translate to individuals and l d i
not in the way that the u k

627
00:22:26,865 –> 00:22:30,790
[mark_chamberlain]: used leverage to try and come up
with you now meeting a funding obligation

628
00:22:30,920 –> 00:22:31,021
[bruno_caron]: oh

629
00:22:31,226 –> 00:22:31,407
[ramsey_d_smith]: mark

630
00:22:31,891 –> 00:22:31,931
[mark_chamberlain]: l

631
00:22:31,930 –> 00:22:32,010
[ramsey_d_smith]: can

632
00:22:31,971 –> 00:22:31,991
[mark_chamberlain]: d

633
00:22:32,071 –> 00:22:34,242
[ramsey_d_smith]: you define l d i for the
broader audience

634
00:22:33,948 –> 00:22:34,608
[bruno_caron]: okay

635
00:22:35,433 –> 00:22:36,896
[mark_chamberlain]: liability driven investing

636
00:22:36,425 –> 00:22:36,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

637
00:22:36,888 –> 00:22:37,172
[bruno_caron]: oh

638
00:22:38,158 –> 00:22:39,841
[mark_chamberlain]: is what the acronym stands for and

639
00:22:40,376 –> 00:22:40,396
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

640
00:22:40,542 –> 00:22:41,083
[mark_chamberlain]: it’s something

641
00:22:40,878 –> 00:22:41,101
[bruno_caron]: may

642
00:22:41,163 –> 00:22:42,545
[mark_chamberlain]: that the corporate

643
00:22:42,206 –> 00:22:42,408
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

644
00:22:42,585 –> 00:22:44,048
[mark_chamberlain]: defined benefit plans moved

645
00:22:44,045 –> 00:22:44,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

646
00:22:44,128 –> 00:22:47,293
[mark_chamberlain]: to following basically the moment and really

647
00:22:47,075 –> 00:22:47,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

648
00:22:47,353 –> 00:22:52,362
[mark_chamberlain]: increased after the pension protection act in
two thousand six where there was a c

649
00:22:52,582 –> 00:22:52,983
[mark_chamberlain]: change

650
00:22:53,105 –> 00:22:53,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

651
00:22:53,243 –> 00:22:58,231
[mark_chamberlain]: in the funding ratio calculations for d
b plants they could no longer use

652
00:22:58,565 –> 00:22:58,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

653
00:22:58,592 –> 00:23:06,005
[mark_chamberlain]: one discount rate to figure out what
whether they were funded or not and the

654
00:23:06,065 –> 00:23:07,287
[mark_chamberlain]: new rules said that for

655
00:23:07,488 –> 00:23:09,228
[bruno_caron]: yeah

656
00:23:07,928 –> 00:23:08,990
[mark_chamberlain]: those assets that

657
00:23:08,945 –> 00:23:08,966
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

658
00:23:09,170 –> 00:23:13,077
[mark_chamberlain]: were the essential assets of the plan
to be fully

659
00:23:13,095 –> 00:23:13,338
[michelle_richter]: yes

660
00:23:13,177 –> 00:23:19,124
[mark_chamberlain]: funded meaning for those retires that are
already in retire that part of the plan

661
00:23:19,204 –> 00:23:21,427
[mark_chamberlain]: had to be fully funded to be
secure

662
00:23:21,348 –> 00:23:22,158
[bruno_caron]: yeah

663
00:23:22,027 –> 00:23:23,429
[mark_chamberlain]: so they said those assets

664
00:23:23,465 –> 00:23:23,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

665
00:23:23,669 –> 00:23:24,530
[mark_chamberlain]: have to use a discount

666
00:23:24,386 –> 00:23:24,630
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

667
00:23:24,610 –> 00:23:29,267
[mark_chamberlain]: rate that’s basically a risk free rate
a short term you know investment grade bond

668
00:23:29,347 –> 00:23:33,774
[mark_chamberlain]: rate where as he for the employes
that are retiring down the road twenty thirty

669
00:23:33,794 –> 00:23:39,004
[mark_chamberlain]: years out they could use a longer
duration interest rate calculation so they can okay

670
00:23:39,647 –> 00:23:44,786
[mark_chamberlain]: we call a three bucket approach they
segmented the assets of the plan based on

671
00:23:45,026 –> 00:23:51,276
[mark_chamberlain]: how risky the retirement funding need was
and so it’s really an asset liability matching

672
00:23:51,637 –> 00:23:52,358
[mark_chamberlain]: kind of a formula

673
00:23:52,618 –> 00:23:52,638
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

674
00:23:53,179 –> 00:23:55,583
[mark_chamberlain]: so we said why couldn’t that apply
to individuals

675
00:23:56,096 –> 00:23:56,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

676
00:23:56,124 –> 00:24:01,758
[mark_chamberlain]: because if you try and make the
translation in terms of utility what onamous call

677
00:24:02,483 –> 00:24:03,388
[mark_chamberlain]: what’s the utility

678
00:24:03,035 –> 00:24:03,056
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

679
00:24:03,489 –> 00:24:03,549
[mark_chamberlain]: of

680
00:24:03,618 –> 00:24:03,881
[bruno_caron]: oh

681
00:24:03,871 –> 00:24:03,971
[mark_chamberlain]: the

682
00:24:03,905 –> 00:24:03,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

683
00:24:04,012 –> 00:24:10,317
[mark_chamberlain]: position for that individual the utility of
the essential expenses their food shelter

684
00:24:10,080 –> 00:24:10,101
[michelle_richter]: a

685
00:24:10,397 –> 00:24:16,823
[mark_chamberlain]: and health insurance is different than their
utility for travel and vacation expenses much less

686
00:24:16,903 –> 00:24:20,750
[mark_chamberlain]: essential and so lot of lot of
thinkers in the industry have come up with

687
00:24:20,850 –> 00:24:21,972
[mark_chamberlain]: you know a way of saying let’s

688
00:24:21,894 –> 00:24:21,915
[michelle_richter]: m

689
00:24:22,853 –> 00:24:26,059
[mark_chamberlain]: let’s they’ve use different terms for it
but

690
00:24:26,096 –> 00:24:26,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

691
00:24:27,401 –> 00:24:28,784
[mark_chamberlain]: they basically said let’s about

692
00:24:28,766 –> 00:24:30,386
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

693
00:24:28,945 –> 00:24:30,169
[mark_chamberlain]: using annuities for

694
00:24:30,896 –> 00:24:31,161
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

695
00:24:31,614 –> 00:24:35,764
[mark_chamberlain]: most necessary part of a person’s balance
sheet in retirement

696
00:24:35,295 –> 00:24:35,315
[michelle_richter]: m

697
00:24:35,705 –> 00:24:35,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

698
00:24:36,385 –> 00:24:41,155
[mark_chamberlain]: and get those things funded in a
secure way and we could think about using

699
00:24:41,576 –> 00:24:46,464
[mark_chamberlain]: something that can have more variability for
the expenses that more discretionary

700
00:24:46,290 –> 00:24:46,310
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

701
00:24:47,145 –> 00:24:48,127
[mark_chamberlain]: and we think that applies

702
00:24:47,937 –> 00:24:47,958
[bruno_caron]: m

703
00:24:48,568 –> 00:24:49,449
[mark_chamberlain]: almost on a one to

704
00:24:49,440 –> 00:24:49,460
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

705
00:24:49,549 –> 00:24:56,437
[mark_chamberlain]: one basis just based on economics one
ant and so the idea that corporate pension

706
00:24:56,538 –> 00:25:02,596
[mark_chamberlain]: plans we’re forced to move down this
road in two thousand six but in the

707
00:25:02,956 –> 00:25:03,418
[mark_chamberlain]: personal

708
00:25:03,215 –> 00:25:03,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

709
00:25:03,538 –> 00:25:05,985
[mark_chamberlain]: financial planning world we’re still

710
00:25:06,116 –> 00:25:06,320
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

711
00:25:06,126 –> 00:25:13,029
[mark_chamberlain]: treating individuals in most software like old
defined benefit plants and we use one discount

712
00:25:13,089 –> 00:25:17,496
[mark_chamberlain]: rate which is usually based on i
didn’t expect to return from risk assets to

713
00:25:17,536 –> 00:25:22,927
[mark_chamberlain]: figure out whether somebody’s fully funded so
i record mentation is that the planning shift

714
00:25:23,288 –> 00:25:26,255
[mark_chamberlain]: to a discussion with participants about let’s
let’s

715
00:25:26,130 –> 00:25:26,150
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

716
00:25:26,515 –> 00:25:28,641
[mark_chamberlain]: have you sit down and figure out
with your spouse

717
00:25:28,826 –> 00:25:30,776
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

718
00:25:29,523 –> 00:25:30,889
[mark_chamberlain]: what your essential expenses

719
00:25:30,836 –> 00:25:31,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

720
00:25:31,010 –> 00:25:36,425
[mark_chamberlain]: are put those in the bucket number
one bucket number two could be the ones

721
00:25:36,465 –> 00:25:39,508
[mark_chamberlain]: that follow after that in terms of
need and then bucket number three could be

722
00:25:40,049 –> 00:25:43,072
[mark_chamberlain]: you know your your less essential or
your optional expenses

723
00:25:42,618 –> 00:25:42,879
[bruno_caron]: yeah

724
00:25:43,613 –> 00:25:46,341
[mark_chamberlain]: you could think about finding them differently
but for the first bucket

725
00:25:47,028 –> 00:25:47,231
[bruno_caron]: oh

726
00:25:47,134 –> 00:25:48,508
[mark_chamberlain]: should really consider an annuity

727
00:25:49,791 –> 00:25:52,736
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m michel a mark i want to
jump in here so really interesting topic i

728
00:25:53,377 –> 00:25:57,123
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: just to pick it back i want
you just said mark so m the average

729
00:25:57,343 –> 00:26:02,933
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: plan you know participant in particular that
employ that’s maybe approaching retirement this might be

730
00:26:03,053 –> 00:26:07,160
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: like mind blowing concept re thinking how
they’re going to contribute

731
00:26:07,145 –> 00:26:07,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

732
00:26:07,240 –> 00:26:11,747
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: into their plan so from an education
perspective in particular bringing up the word annuity

733
00:26:13,398 –> 00:26:13,660
[bruno_caron]: oh

734
00:26:13,890 –> 00:26:16,334
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: now no verb michelle um but bringing
up

735
00:26:16,316 –> 00:26:16,583
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

736
00:26:16,374 –> 00:26:17,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the word annuity

737
00:26:17,325 –> 00:26:17,668
[michelle_richter]: oh

738
00:26:17,576 –> 00:26:18,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: um you know

739
00:26:18,606 –> 00:26:18,808
[michelle_richter]: yeah

740
00:26:19,139 –> 00:26:23,967
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: who’s responsible for that education getting that
plan participant at the sponsor is at the

741
00:26:24,007 –> 00:26:26,815
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: provider combination of both and then i
have follow up question to that

742
00:26:29,517 –> 00:26:33,724
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s going to be everybody
you know so it’s all

743
00:26:33,686 –> 00:26:33,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

744
00:26:33,784 –> 00:26:36,629
[michelle_richter]: of the above and more it’s going
to take

745
00:26:36,506 –> 00:26:37,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

746
00:26:36,769 –> 00:26:42,258
[michelle_richter]: industry organizations like the irikis has begun
working on consumer

747
00:26:42,198 –> 00:26:42,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

748
00:26:42,318 –> 00:26:42,639
[michelle_richter]: facing

749
00:26:42,515 –> 00:26:42,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

750
00:26:42,719 –> 00:26:44,582
[michelle_richter]: materials there is a chance

751
00:26:44,456 –> 00:26:45,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

752
00:26:44,722 –> 00:26:45,924
[michelle_richter]: we may do so together

753
00:26:45,918 –> 00:26:45,938
[bruno_caron]: o

754
00:26:46,064 –> 00:26:46,725
[michelle_richter]: with the alliance

755
00:26:46,646 –> 00:26:47,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

756
00:26:46,805 –> 00:26:50,652
[michelle_richter]: for lifetime income so i think not
only

757
00:26:50,615 –> 00:26:51,243
[ramsey_d_smith]: m yeah

758
00:26:51,133 –> 00:26:56,542
[michelle_richter]: the categories in cluded are those responsible
for education but more broadly

759
00:26:56,598 –> 00:26:57,288
[bruno_caron]: yeah

760
00:26:56,742 –> 00:26:57,423
[michelle_richter]: the industry

761
00:26:57,162 –> 00:26:57,491
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: did you

762
00:26:58,184 –> 00:27:02,612
[michelle_richter]: needs through dispassionate third party kind of
organizations

763
00:27:01,796 –> 00:27:01,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

764
00:27:03,153 –> 00:27:09,168
[michelle_richter]: as well as through the individual product
providers as well as through record keepers through

765
00:27:09,208 –> 00:27:16,112
[michelle_richter]: the employer themselves the employer is the
person that the plan participant or the entity

766
00:27:16,172 –> 00:27:19,137
[michelle_richter]: that the person the participant feels they
can trust

767
00:27:19,438 –> 00:27:19,950
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

768
00:27:20,079 –> 00:27:23,645
[michelle_richter]: and rightly so so the materials have
to get you

769
00:27:24,236 –> 00:27:24,561
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

770
00:27:24,546 –> 00:27:26,610
[michelle_richter]: playin sponsors but they also have to
get

771
00:27:26,696 –> 00:27:26,917
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

772
00:27:27,251 –> 00:27:30,336
[michelle_richter]: from there to to the end participants
and that’s never

773
00:27:30,086 –> 00:27:30,308
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

774
00:27:30,436 –> 00:27:30,917
[michelle_richter]: an easy

775
00:27:32,216 –> 00:27:32,441
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

776
00:27:32,960 –> 00:27:33,461
[michelle_richter]: task to

777
00:27:33,446 –> 00:27:34,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

778
00:27:33,561 –> 00:27:38,069
[michelle_richter]: accomplish because most men gins choose not
to engage with their plans

779
00:27:38,556 –> 00:27:39,030
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

780
00:27:38,830 –> 00:27:39,051
[michelle_richter]: um

781
00:27:39,305 –> 00:27:39,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

782
00:27:39,692 –> 00:27:41,134
[michelle_richter]: and that’s pretty unfortunate

783
00:27:41,298 –> 00:27:41,521
[bruno_caron]: oh

784
00:27:41,334 –> 00:27:44,800
[michelle_richter]: but they choose not to write up
until the point of retirement and then they

785
00:27:44,900 –> 00:27:51,553
[michelle_richter]: experience overwhelm or the perience shame for
not having saved enough and at that point

786
00:27:52,275 –> 00:27:53,918
[michelle_richter]: there’s you know a real challenge

787
00:27:53,816 –> 00:27:54,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

788
00:27:54,118 –> 00:27:54,299
[michelle_richter]: to

789
00:27:54,716 –> 00:27:54,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

790
00:27:55,121 –> 00:27:56,383
[michelle_richter]: help them you know when it’s

791
00:27:56,880 –> 00:27:57,660
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

792
00:27:57,185 –> 00:27:57,807
[michelle_richter]: on that last

793
00:27:57,746 –> 00:27:58,087
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

794
00:27:57,887 –> 00:27:58,930
[michelle_richter]: day before they retire

795
00:27:58,910 –> 00:27:59,072
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

796
00:27:59,030 –> 00:28:00,413
[michelle_richter]: you know it’s much better if

797
00:28:00,671 –> 00:28:00,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

798
00:28:00,895 –> 00:28:01,356
[michelle_richter]: a financial

799
00:28:01,038 –> 00:28:01,340
[bruno_caron]: oh

800
00:28:01,286 –> 00:28:01,572
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

801
00:28:01,436 –> 00:28:04,263
[michelle_richter]: professional is in front of that person
sooner than that

802
00:28:04,470 –> 00:28:06,463
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: they kind of set it on auto
pilot so

803
00:28:07,575 –> 00:28:07,818
[michelle_richter]: yeah

804
00:28:07,641 –> 00:28:13,386
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: next question is am i hearing maybe
a new career path or even a talent

805
00:28:13,446 –> 00:28:19,015
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: opportunity for agents um so the plan
provider i’m just the practicality of how an

806
00:28:19,075 –> 00:28:22,841
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: annuity is sold you know who has
to sign the apple how does this happen

807
00:28:23,002 –> 00:28:23,222
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so i’m

808
00:28:23,225 –> 00:28:23,246
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

809
00:28:23,262 –> 00:28:28,230
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thinking through where does the role of
the agent plan is the provider hiring agents

810
00:28:28,270 –> 00:28:28,931
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: as consultants

811
00:28:29,165 –> 00:28:29,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

812
00:28:29,172 –> 00:28:32,397
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: or or agents going to have employee
opportunities in within plan

813
00:28:32,285 –> 00:28:32,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

814
00:28:32,457 –> 00:28:35,563
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: providers going forward can you speak a
little bit about how you in vision

815
00:28:35,655 –> 00:28:36,804
[michelle_richter]: yeah

816
00:28:35,883 –> 00:28:37,647
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i know we don’t know exactly but
how this

817
00:28:37,599 –> 00:28:37,782
[michelle_richter]: yeah

818
00:28:37,707 –> 00:28:38,148
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: all works

819
00:28:40,106 –> 00:28:40,266
[michelle_richter]: well

820
00:28:40,320 –> 00:28:41,130
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

821
00:28:40,627 –> 00:28:41,248
[michelle_richter]: i’m not sure

822
00:28:41,160 –> 00:28:41,760
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

823
00:28:41,368 –> 00:28:43,652
[michelle_richter]: exactly i just know it’s going a
happen

824
00:28:43,663 –> 00:28:43,864
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: right

825
00:28:44,093 –> 00:28:47,318
[michelle_richter]: so i think people should prepare for
the fact that it’s going to

826
00:28:47,298 –> 00:28:47,539
[bruno_caron]: oh

827
00:28:47,378 –> 00:28:47,659
[michelle_richter]: happen

828
00:28:47,636 –> 00:28:47,877
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

829
00:28:48,821 –> 00:28:49,722
[michelle_richter]: and my hope is

830
00:28:49,696 –> 00:28:49,837
[bruno_caron]: yeah

831
00:28:49,822 –> 00:28:52,868
[michelle_richter]: that my hope is that other

832
00:28:52,710 –> 00:28:52,957
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

833
00:28:52,948 –> 00:28:55,312
[michelle_richter]: members of the insurance community

834
00:28:55,424 –> 00:28:56,144
[paul_tyler]: oh

835
00:28:55,452 –> 00:28:55,612
[michelle_richter]: make

836
00:28:55,518 –> 00:28:55,662
[bruno_caron]: oh

837
00:28:55,713 –> 00:28:56,554
[michelle_richter]: the decision to

838
00:28:56,628 –> 00:28:56,890
[bruno_caron]: oh

839
00:28:56,634 –> 00:29:01,242
[michelle_richter]: become insurance advisors where advisors are

840
00:29:01,196 –> 00:29:01,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

841
00:29:01,302 –> 00:29:04,335
[michelle_richter]: verb sellers yeah

842
00:29:04,078 –> 00:29:04,279
[paul_tyler]: verb

843
00:29:04,367 –> 00:29:04,468
[ramsey_d_smith]: but

844
00:29:04,379 –> 00:29:04,741
[paul_tyler]: sellers

845
00:29:04,508 –> 00:29:05,489
[ramsey_d_smith]: can you hang that shingle

846
00:29:05,284 –> 00:29:05,304
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

847
00:29:05,328 –> 00:29:05,836
[bruno_caron]: uh

848
00:29:05,569 –> 00:29:06,511
[ramsey_d_smith]: now i mean it’s it’s

849
00:29:06,427 –> 00:29:06,468
[bruno_caron]: uh

850
00:29:06,551 –> 00:29:08,494
[ramsey_d_smith]: a very so the use case

851
00:29:08,294 –> 00:29:08,559
[paul_tyler]: oh

852
00:29:08,554 –> 00:29:14,144
[ramsey_d_smith]: is very clear in a world where
by the way tis a great questions like

853
00:29:14,358 –> 00:29:14,581
[bruno_caron]: yeah

854
00:29:14,564 –> 00:29:15,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: really getting right the heart

855
00:29:15,566 –> 00:29:15,730
[michelle_richter]: yeah

856
00:29:15,646 –> 00:29:16,227
[ramsey_d_smith]: of the matter there

857
00:29:16,683 –> 00:29:17,185
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thanks ramsey

858
00:29:17,489 –> 00:29:22,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: but so it’s a it’s a business
opportunity is a business opportunity for r as

859
00:29:22,698 –> 00:29:24,581
[ramsey_d_smith]: in this in the d c space
check

860
00:29:24,888 –> 00:29:25,089
[bruno_caron]: oh

861
00:29:25,342 –> 00:29:31,394
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there is this open knee for
open need for insurance experts in that space

862
00:29:31,795 –> 00:29:39,167
[ramsey_d_smith]: check right but it’s not clear to
me that there’s a there’s there’s a designation

863
00:29:39,728 –> 00:29:43,653
[ramsey_d_smith]: right there’s a what is the you
put up your shingle now what does that

864
00:29:43,713 –> 00:29:44,253
[ramsey_d_smith]: shingle say

865
00:29:44,488 –> 00:29:44,670
[michelle_richter]: yeah

866
00:29:44,994 –> 00:29:45,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

867
00:29:46,115 –> 00:29:47,277
[michelle_richter]: great question it’s

868
00:29:47,186 –> 00:29:48,155
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

869
00:29:47,337 –> 00:29:51,464
[michelle_richter]: not clear to me either i just
went and got my a if from f

870
00:29:51,565 –> 00:29:54,549
[michelle_richter]: i three sixty so that i could
be an accredited investment

871
00:29:54,326 –> 00:29:54,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

872
00:29:54,590 –> 00:29:55,150
[michelle_richter]: fiduciary

873
00:29:55,595 –> 00:29:55,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

874
00:29:56,052 –> 00:30:01,942
[michelle_richter]: even though what i focus on not
so much investments right it’s it’s de cumulation

875
00:30:01,385 –> 00:30:01,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

876
00:30:02,563 –> 00:30:08,773
[michelle_richter]: but but you know so so my
thinking is i went and got my insurance

877
00:30:08,873 –> 00:30:09,314
[michelle_richter]: license

878
00:30:09,386 –> 00:30:09,589
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

879
00:30:09,394 –> 00:30:14,245
[michelle_richter]: fret and i got my have my
r i a set up i have a

880
00:30:14,305 –> 00:30:21,195
[michelle_richter]: sixty five and i am now i
have the a i f so so my

881
00:30:21,275 –> 00:30:25,297
[michelle_richter]: thinking is i’m covered under the umbrella
of those

882
00:30:25,142 –> 00:30:25,163
[mark_chamberlain]: m

883
00:30:25,357 –> 00:30:25,678
[michelle_richter]: things

884
00:30:25,736 –> 00:30:25,756
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

885
00:30:25,878 –> 00:30:32,449
[michelle_richter]: but i have no clarity whatsoever as
to legally how this domain develops i know

886
00:30:32,670 –> 00:30:33,271
[michelle_richter]: only that

887
00:30:33,464 –> 00:30:33,624
[paul_tyler]: yeah

888
00:30:33,812 –> 00:30:34,593
[michelle_richter]: experts is

889
00:30:34,649 –> 00:30:34,750
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

890
00:30:34,673 –> 00:30:39,287
[michelle_richter]: needed around inuits delivered to plan advisors

891
00:30:39,566 –> 00:30:39,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

892
00:30:39,567 –> 00:30:42,531
[michelle_richter]: so one of those is going to
be what qualifies

893
00:30:43,066 –> 00:30:43,556
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

894
00:30:43,132 –> 00:30:44,854
[michelle_richter]: mark and me to be able to
do that

895
00:30:44,966 –> 00:30:44,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

896
00:30:45,114 –> 00:30:52,306
[paul_tyler]: well interesting discussion now i think if
i come from the institutional side to say

897
00:30:52,807 –> 00:30:58,061
[paul_tyler]: know ramsey i expect this advisor to
be an r a seems like a very

898
00:30:58,182 –> 00:31:04,999
[paul_tyler]: logical response however you know michelle my
experience has been you know

899
00:31:05,156 –> 00:31:05,518
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

900
00:31:05,800 –> 00:31:07,641
[paul_tyler]: there’s not such there’s no such thing
as

901
00:31:07,595 –> 00:31:07,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

902
00:31:07,701 –> 00:31:09,203
[paul_tyler]: a good compensation

903
00:31:10,235 –> 00:31:10,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

904
00:31:10,354 –> 00:31:13,559
[paul_tyler]: perfect compensation planet really what i do
see is that

905
00:31:13,475 –> 00:31:13,496
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

906
00:31:13,599 –> 00:31:16,083
[paul_tyler]: the compensation has got to match up
with the results

907
00:31:16,016 –> 00:31:16,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

908
00:31:17,205 –> 00:31:18,608
[paul_tyler]: you want um

909
00:31:19,387 –> 00:31:19,689
[michelle_richter]: yes

910
00:31:20,150 –> 00:31:20,711
[paul_tyler]: you know if you think

911
00:31:20,726 –> 00:31:20,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

912
00:31:20,771 –> 00:31:25,197
[paul_tyler]: of these companies as as a pyramid
you got some very high

913
00:31:25,256 –> 00:31:25,679
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

914
00:31:25,357 –> 00:31:31,423
[paul_tyler]: earners with probably very large for once
balances at the very top economically a

915
00:31:32,645 –> 00:31:32,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

916
00:31:32,724 –> 00:31:33,625
[paul_tyler]: a fiduciary

917
00:31:33,056 –> 00:31:33,076
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

918
00:31:33,845 –> 00:31:38,369
[paul_tyler]: like uh annual contract probably makes sense
you know it’s it’s you know i’ve got

919
00:31:38,449 –> 00:31:43,493
[paul_tyler]: high end services ramsey remember co i
think you know

920
00:31:45,436 –> 00:31:45,960
[ramsey_d_smith]: they were great

921
00:31:45,734 –> 00:31:50,318
[paul_tyler]: i’ve lost lost track of this service
great service if you happen to be have

922
00:31:50,619 –> 00:31:52,921
[paul_tyler]: an v p title now challenge s
you go

923
00:31:52,973 –> 00:31:53,196
[mark_chamberlain]: uh

924
00:31:52,981 –> 00:32:01,368
[paul_tyler]: down down the pyramid ah they mean
these people be service michelle if if

925
00:32:01,835 –> 00:32:01,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

926
00:32:02,449 –> 00:32:06,915
[paul_tyler]: you know they’re only earning two percent
off of a twenty five thousand dollars throwing

927
00:32:07,176 –> 00:32:07,517
[paul_tyler]: balance

928
00:32:07,406 –> 00:32:07,627
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

929
00:32:07,597 –> 00:32:08,681
[paul_tyler]: you know what’s the answer there

930
00:32:08,756 –> 00:32:08,997
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

931
00:32:09,216 –> 00:32:11,340
[michelle_richter]: well the answer is

932
00:32:11,495 –> 00:32:11,516
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

933
00:32:11,501 –> 00:32:14,850
[michelle_richter]: not a um it’s not

934
00:32:15,146 –> 00:32:15,388
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

935
00:32:15,695 –> 00:32:15,876
[michelle_richter]: um

936
00:32:16,166 –> 00:32:16,471
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

937
00:32:16,257 –> 00:32:22,135
[michelle_richter]: in my view so you know i
or at least a um is to me

938
00:32:22,436 –> 00:32:28,446
[michelle_richter]: not my preferred building methodology for the
wealth management domain i do think it’s appropriate

939
00:32:28,486 –> 00:32:32,152
[michelle_richter]: for the asset management domain but that’s
going to get us off on a whole

940
00:32:32,212 –> 00:32:32,372
[michelle_richter]: other

941
00:32:32,256 –> 00:32:32,457
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

942
00:32:32,492 –> 00:32:35,678
[michelle_richter]: track and i still have it i
a tribe to deliver so

943
00:32:35,906 –> 00:32:35,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

944
00:32:36,419 –> 00:32:37,160
[michelle_richter]: um you know

945
00:32:37,343 –> 00:32:38,003
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

946
00:32:37,441 –> 00:32:37,541
[michelle_richter]: but

947
00:32:37,835 –> 00:32:37,856
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

948
00:32:37,941 –> 00:32:38,282
[michelle_richter]: it does

949
00:32:38,389 –> 00:32:38,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

950
00:32:38,402 –> 00:32:43,170
[michelle_richter]: tie into what i want to talk
about which is the predominance of a um

951
00:32:43,330 –> 00:32:51,170
[michelle_richter]: as a building method it does cause
distortion in thinking that i’m going to elucidate

952
00:32:51,691 –> 00:32:54,741
[michelle_richter]: pretty deeply should i go for it

953
00:32:55,319 –> 00:32:55,861
[ramsey_d_smith]: rock and roll

954
00:32:57,155 –> 00:33:03,385
[michelle_richter]: okay um this you all are get
very excited right now because i’m about to

955
00:33:03,906 –> 00:33:12,404
[michelle_richter]: go bananas and i am going to
issue called arms i’m looking for members of

956
00:33:12,785 –> 00:33:13,607
[michelle_richter]: the society

957
00:33:13,145 –> 00:33:13,166
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

958
00:33:13,647 –> 00:33:21,652
[michelle_richter]: of actuaries nata i r i and
any other industry group that you can think

959
00:33:21,772 –> 00:33:28,443
[michelle_richter]: of that might find this topic of
concern i am about to make a big

960
00:33:28,543 –> 00:33:34,839
[michelle_richter]: bold assert and which i will back
up with three less big assertions so big

961
00:33:34,940 –> 00:33:43,415
[michelle_richter]: bold assertion number one is that non
codification of verb sales and insurance means that

962
00:33:43,595 –> 00:33:46,740
[michelle_richter]: intellectual property cannot have value

963
00:33:46,526 –> 00:33:47,576
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

964
00:33:46,840 –> 00:33:52,992
[michelle_richter]: and insurance i g i will defend
why this is true with the following three

965
00:33:53,092 –> 00:33:53,653
[michelle_richter]: assertions

966
00:33:53,585 –> 00:33:53,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

967
00:33:54,955 –> 00:34:00,785
[michelle_richter]: mark this moment in the podcast so
that you can tag the people that you

968
00:34:00,865 –> 00:34:04,271
[michelle_richter]: know from the industry organizations i just
mentioned

969
00:34:04,406 –> 00:34:04,648
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

970
00:34:04,772 –> 00:34:07,609
[michelle_richter]: and tell them when to start listening
it’s right here

971
00:34:07,463 –> 00:34:07,725
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

972
00:34:08,275 –> 00:34:14,826
[michelle_richter]: a non codification of verb sales and
insurance means i p can’t have value why

973
00:34:15,807 –> 00:34:22,221
[michelle_richter]: well the above mentioned fact is true
because of the intersection between how products

974
00:34:22,136 –> 00:34:22,378
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

975
00:34:22,642 –> 00:34:29,909
[michelle_richter]: sell and how trademark law works i
will explain further in a moment sertion number

976
00:34:29,989 –> 00:34:37,563
[michelle_richter]: three is that intellectual property having value
is fundamental to the functioning of a capitalistic

977
00:34:37,703 –> 00:34:48,360
[michelle_richter]: system assertion number four in a deutalized
world where insurance manufacturing is now entirely vertically

978
00:34:48,481 –> 00:34:57,335
[michelle_richter]: disintegrated from distribution i p can only
come to have value by codifying insurance advisement

979
00:34:57,896 –> 00:35:06,339
[michelle_richter]: as a scalable overseeable nationally regulated discipline
so now i move to proving assertion number

980
00:35:06,539 –> 00:35:08,702
[michelle_richter]: one i p has no value in
my

981
00:35:08,756 –> 00:35:09,059
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

982
00:35:08,803 –> 00:35:15,634
[michelle_richter]: domain by proving assertions to through four
starting with assertion two part one how to

983
00:35:15,674 –> 00:35:20,671
[michelle_richter]: product sell to understand this we need
first to define the word product and then

984
00:35:20,711 –> 00:35:28,095
[michelle_richter]: the word sell products are nounce in
the context of insurance and financial services products

985
00:35:28,296 –> 00:35:38,092
[michelle_richter]: are issuable containers and their distribution is
highly regulated products are issuable legale contracts within

986
00:35:38,272 –> 00:35:40,936
[michelle_richter]: which intellectual property can be imbedded

987
00:35:41,156 –> 00:35:42,146
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

988
00:35:41,678 –> 00:35:42,619
[michelle_richter]: and in exchange

989
00:35:42,146 –> 00:35:42,367
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

990
00:35:42,719 –> 00:35:50,633
[michelle_richter]: for the distribution of which compensation can
be paid to a financial professional in respect

991
00:35:50,853 –> 00:35:58,727
[michelle_richter]: of either but never concurrently a or
b a is from inside the noun in

992
00:35:58,847 –> 00:36:03,958
[michelle_richter]: direct respect to sale thereof this refers
to agency and brokerage

993
00:36:04,590 –> 00:36:04,753
[ramsey_d_smith]: her

994
00:36:04,780 –> 00:36:10,870
[michelle_richter]: where as b is charged upon the
a u a or a um there formed

995
00:36:11,411 –> 00:36:12,072
[michelle_richter]: following a

996
00:36:12,056 –> 00:36:12,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

997
00:36:12,192 –> 00:36:18,313
[michelle_richter]: products introduction to an advised portfolio thus
b refers to the r i a channel

998
00:36:19,465 –> 00:36:21,789
[michelle_richter]: now that we know what product means
we move on to sell

999
00:36:21,956 –> 00:36:22,297
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1000
00:36:22,791 –> 00:36:24,494
[michelle_richter]: sell means the exchange

1001
00:36:24,065 –> 00:36:24,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1002
00:36:24,654 –> 00:36:30,323
[michelle_richter]: of remuneration in direct respect to x
x is a verb in the r a

1003
00:36:30,444 –> 00:36:33,070
[michelle_richter]: channel and it’s a noun in the
agent

1004
00:36:33,019 –> 00:36:33,121
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1005
00:36:33,431 –> 00:36:42,196
[michelle_richter]: broker channels wholesalers are people who so
routinely sell holes that we can describe

1006
00:36:41,857 –> 00:36:41,878
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1007
00:36:42,256 –> 00:36:47,265
[michelle_richter]: their identity by adding an r to
the end of the verb that they retain

1008
00:36:47,405 –> 00:36:53,947
[michelle_richter]: we perform analogy runners routine ly run
we don’t call someone a runner who once

1009
00:36:54,027 –> 00:36:57,872
[michelle_richter]: ran across across the street so whole
sailors

1010
00:36:58,257 –> 00:36:58,418
[ramsey_d_smith]: now

1011
00:36:58,413 –> 00:37:04,720
[michelle_richter]: sell nouns holes are nouns the human
mind can’t conceive of the premise of a

1012
00:37:04,760 –> 00:37:12,125
[michelle_richter]: whole verb therefore whole sailors are people
who sell holes holes must be nouns and

1013
00:37:12,286 –> 00:37:17,717
[michelle_richter]: non sell only when they have a
whole sailor selling them whole sailors

1014
00:37:17,606 –> 00:37:17,787
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1015
00:37:17,837 –> 00:37:23,466
[michelle_richter]: work for either a non manufacturer or
a noun seller and organization that sells nouns

1016
00:37:23,907 –> 00:37:29,276
[michelle_richter]: will not switch witch now and it
has its whole sailers focused on selling unless

1017
00:37:29,376 –> 00:37:36,488
[michelle_richter]: the new non is more profitable than
is the incumbent now portfolio that’s the reason

1018
00:37:36,608 –> 00:37:43,700
[michelle_richter]: why a product concept cannot have value
because is valuable about the product the non

1019
00:37:44,381 –> 00:37:52,114
[michelle_richter]: is the sellers prior investment in manufacturing
and or wholesaling infrastructure not the clever intellectual

1020
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,165
[michelle_richter]: prof property that does not deliver a
higher

1021
00:37:55,136 –> 00:37:55,460
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1022
00:37:55,225 –> 00:38:02,041
[michelle_richter]: profit margin than the incumbent so that’s
the first half of assertion to it goes

1023
00:38:02,181 –> 00:38:04,525
[michelle_richter]: way quicker from here so stick with
me okay

1024
00:38:04,805 –> 00:38:04,826
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1025
00:38:05,046 –> 00:38:06,648
[michelle_richter]: it’s like lightning from here okay

1026
00:38:07,188 –> 00:38:07,289
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1027
00:38:07,971 –> 00:38:14,582
[michelle_richter]: the second half of assertion to is
about tree marking trademark trade marking and the

1028
00:38:14,642 –> 00:38:19,991
[michelle_richter]: application of trade marking is different for
a brand name than it is for intellectual

1029
00:38:20,051 –> 00:38:25,059
[michelle_richter]: property the how you defend a brand
name in court with a trademark it’s really

1030
00:38:25,139 –> 00:38:27,483
[michelle_richter]: easy but defending intellectual property

1031
00:38:27,581 –> 00:38:27,725
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1032
00:38:27,683 –> 00:38:33,092
[michelle_richter]: the trade mark has more challenge to
it in this case i’m talking about intellectual

1033
00:38:33,173 –> 00:38:41,244
[michelle_richter]: property protection uh it requires the defense
of a trademark requires the intellectual property to

1034
00:38:41,304 –> 00:38:50,117
[michelle_richter]: be now embedable whereas intellectual property that
is service marked requires the i p to

1035
00:38:50,197 –> 00:38:55,924
[michelle_richter]: be verb impedible if you google trademark
definition

1036
00:38:55,916 –> 00:38:57,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah oh

1037
00:38:57,875 –> 00:39:00,419
[michelle_richter]: you see that when applied to intellectual

1038
00:39:00,326 –> 00:39:02,486
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1039
00:39:00,499 –> 00:39:03,404
[michelle_richter]: property defense as differs from brand defense

1040
00:39:03,596 –> 00:39:03,899
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1041
00:39:04,025 –> 00:39:09,013
[michelle_richter]: that the definition of this word requires
the ip owner to be

1042
00:39:08,975 –> 00:39:08,996
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1043
00:39:09,193 –> 00:39:17,085
[michelle_richter]: able to either manufacture or to sell
remember what sell means from the above the

1044
00:39:17,165 –> 00:39:18,126
[michelle_richter]: non right

1045
00:39:18,591 –> 00:39:18,692
[ramsey_d_smith]: so

1046
00:39:18,746 –> 00:39:25,412
[michelle_richter]: so product concepts can’t have value because
of the intersection between how product sells and

1047
00:39:25,753 –> 00:39:33,632
[michelle_richter]: how trade mark law is applied okay
insurance is the liability or contra asset minimization

1048
00:39:33,732 –> 00:39:34,013
[michelle_richter]: field

1049
00:39:34,523 –> 00:39:34,788
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1050
00:39:34,745 –> 00:39:38,290
[michelle_richter]: what just stick with me on insurance

1051
00:39:38,396 –> 00:39:38,659
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1052
00:39:38,411 –> 00:39:40,434
[michelle_richter]: is about minimizing consumers

1053
00:39:40,226 –> 00:39:40,508
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1054
00:39:40,494 –> 00:39:42,758
[michelle_richter]: liabilities okay and i’m not going

1055
00:39:42,685 –> 00:39:42,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1056
00:39:42,778 –> 00:39:47,326
[michelle_richter]: to bring up the contraascit thing again
super complicated so i mean shorten it by

1057
00:39:47,426 –> 00:39:56,887
[michelle_richter]: saying liability minimization insurance advisor is not
a defined term financial advisor is a defined

1058
00:39:57,027 –> 00:39:58,909
[michelle_richter]: term and it means

1059
00:39:58,954 –> 00:39:59,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1060
00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:06,647
[michelle_richter]: person who holds the authority to sell
verbs this means person has an r a

1061
00:40:06,768 –> 00:40:14,685
[michelle_richter]: affiliation r i s sell verbs only
agents and brokers sell nouns only financial advisers

1062
00:40:14,826 –> 00:40:17,971
[michelle_richter]: provide ongoing asset maximization advising

1063
00:40:18,176 –> 00:40:18,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1064
00:40:18,532 –> 00:40:19,914
[michelle_richter]: and they frequently receive

1065
00:40:19,856 –> 00:40:20,158
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1066
00:40:19,994 –> 00:40:22,671
[michelle_richter]: thee compensation v a u m

1067
00:40:24,296 –> 00:40:24,678
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1068
00:40:24,379 –> 00:40:32,051
[michelle_richter]: this asset maximization advising is a service
p imbedded in services for example managed account

1069
00:40:32,212 –> 00:40:33,594
[michelle_richter]: services provided by

1070
00:40:33,626 –> 00:40:35,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1071
00:40:33,754 –> 00:40:38,442
[michelle_richter]: morning star ink are service markable thus
they have been

1072
00:40:38,413 –> 00:40:38,554
[ramsey_d_smith]: sir

1073
00:40:38,602 –> 00:40:46,092
[michelle_richter]: service marked not trade markable and not
trade marked because their verbs which are services

1074
00:40:46,613 –> 00:40:57,288
[michelle_richter]: not none absent codifying insurance advisement so
that insurance professionals can also sell herbs by

1075
00:40:57,368 –> 00:40:57,849
[michelle_richter]: which i am

1076
00:40:57,987 –> 00:40:58,150
[ramsey_d_smith]: yes

1077
00:40:57,989 –> 00:41:04,100
[michelle_richter]: saying absent popularizing ability approach like benefits
under advisement

1078
00:41:04,166 –> 00:41:04,186
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1079
00:41:04,701 –> 00:41:07,926
[michelle_richter]: or income under advisement there cannot

1080
00:41:07,856 –> 00:41:08,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1081
00:41:08,046 –> 00:41:12,514
[michelle_richter]: be valued to intellectual property in our
field because you cannot

1082
00:41:12,536 –> 00:41:13,138
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1083
00:41:12,594 –> 00:41:17,842
[michelle_richter]: defend it v s service mark because
there is no framework for scalablyselling services

1084
00:41:17,786 –> 00:41:17,947
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1085
00:41:17,963 –> 00:41:22,871
[michelle_richter]: in our domain and you can’t sell
it as a noun because an organization can

1086
00:41:23,011 –> 00:41:29,462
[michelle_richter]: only monetize a trade mark and insure
from previous investment in manufacturing and distribution and

1087
00:41:29,542 –> 00:41:35,412
[michelle_richter]: encompant only does this if the product
is more profitable than it’s existing portfolio that’s

1088
00:41:35,512 –> 00:41:36,033
[michelle_richter]: not likely

1089
00:41:35,831 –> 00:41:36,266
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1090
00:41:36,153 –> 00:41:39,398
[michelle_richter]: in today’s feconte its environment so again
because

1091
00:41:39,386 –> 00:41:40,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1092
00:41:39,458 –> 00:41:40,580
[michelle_richter]: my prior words are true

1093
00:41:41,006 –> 00:41:41,288
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1094
00:41:41,201 –> 00:41:42,884
[michelle_richter]: not having a scale able advisement

1095
00:41:42,902 –> 00:41:42,922
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1096
00:41:42,964 –> 00:41:44,647
[michelle_richter]: frame for liability reduction

1097
00:41:44,952 –> 00:41:44,972
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1098
00:41:45,088 –> 00:41:50,437
[michelle_richter]: means intellectual property that is service marked
in our field also cannot value because it

1099
00:41:50,477 –> 00:41:56,266
[michelle_richter]: cannot be sold so concludes my proof
of assertion to and i’ll move on to

1100
00:41:56,307 –> 00:42:01,316
[michelle_richter]: assertion three and less there are questions
of which i’m sure there are ready oh

1101
00:42:02,944 –> 00:42:04,346
[ramsey_d_smith]: this is a this is a complex

1102
00:42:04,127 –> 00:42:04,250
[michelle_richter]: ah

1103
00:42:04,446 –> 00:42:06,330
[ramsey_d_smith]: geometric proof you’re taking us through here

1104
00:42:07,475 –> 00:42:08,742
[michelle_richter]: it is i understand that

1105
00:42:08,714 –> 00:42:08,974
[ramsey_d_smith]: europe

1106
00:42:08,842 –> 00:42:10,129
[michelle_richter]: but i’m doing it for a reason

1107
00:42:10,430 –> 00:42:11,197
[ramsey_d_smith]: you’re a mute paul

1108
00:42:11,487 –> 00:42:11,790
[michelle_richter]: i want

1109
00:42:13,257 –> 00:42:13,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1110
00:42:13,325 –> 00:42:18,053
[michelle_richter]: i want the industry organizations that are
or flagged to hear this

1111
00:42:18,446 –> 00:42:18,814
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1112
00:42:18,594 –> 00:42:20,898
[michelle_richter]: re play it they’re gonna have to
play it a lot of times

1113
00:42:20,834 –> 00:42:21,914
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1114
00:42:20,986 –> 00:42:21,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1115
00:42:21,018 –> 00:42:21,719
[michelle_richter]: to get the logic

1116
00:42:22,595 –> 00:42:22,616
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1117
00:42:22,861 –> 00:42:23,221
[michelle_richter]: and so

1118
00:42:23,156 –> 00:42:23,458
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1119
00:42:23,522 –> 00:42:24,504
[michelle_richter]: i’m going really

1120
00:42:24,505 –> 00:42:24,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1121
00:42:24,604 –> 00:42:25,786
[michelle_richter]: in depth in what the logic

1122
00:42:25,870 –> 00:42:25,890
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1123
00:42:25,906 –> 00:42:29,634
[michelle_richter]: is so that it can’t be said
she just at a high level

1124
00:42:29,585 –> 00:42:29,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1125
00:42:29,794 –> 00:42:32,079
[michelle_richter]: said you know something crazy and she’s
always saying

1126
00:42:32,000 –> 00:42:32,546
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1127
00:42:32,139 –> 00:42:33,602
[michelle_richter]: something crazy so i can just

1128
00:42:33,524 –> 00:42:33,727
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1129
00:42:33,722 –> 00:42:35,807
[michelle_richter]: kind of like whip it off you

1130
00:42:35,745 –> 00:42:35,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1131
00:42:35,847 –> 00:42:39,055
[michelle_richter]: know like i’m going deep into it
because my words are true

1132
00:42:39,014 –> 00:42:39,277
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1133
00:42:39,296 –> 00:42:42,243
[michelle_richter]: and they have implications to society more
broadly

1134
00:42:42,334 –> 00:42:44,898
[paul_tyler]: well yeah and i just a couple

1135
00:42:45,596 –> 00:42:45,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1136
00:42:45,779 –> 00:42:46,260
[paul_tyler]: one question

1137
00:42:46,043 –> 00:42:46,284
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1138
00:42:46,360 –> 00:42:46,681
[paul_tyler]: a couple of

1139
00:42:46,685 –> 00:42:46,827
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1140
00:42:46,721 –> 00:42:47,702
[paul_tyler]: observations one is

1141
00:42:47,655 –> 00:42:47,778
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1142
00:42:48,945 –> 00:42:50,728
[paul_tyler]: can we put this in our show
notes or do you have this on a

1143
00:42:50,768 –> 00:42:52,450
[paul_tyler]: website where we can put a link
to it because

1144
00:42:52,355 –> 00:42:52,376
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1145
00:42:52,490 –> 00:42:53,312
[paul_tyler]: people need to read this

1146
00:42:53,325 –> 00:42:53,468
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1147
00:42:53,773 –> 00:42:54,681
[paul_tyler]: they will have to e is

1148
00:42:54,837 –> 00:42:55,321
[michelle_richter]: i’ll give it to you

1149
00:42:55,374 –> 00:42:56,195
[paul_tyler]: okay good

1150
00:42:56,537 –> 00:42:56,658
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1151
00:42:56,675 –> 00:42:56,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1152
00:42:56,896 –> 00:42:59,060
[paul_tyler]: other observation is you know these words
are

1153
00:42:59,366 –> 00:42:59,528
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1154
00:43:00,021 –> 00:43:05,591
[paul_tyler]: complicated couple o things i heard in
their agents versus advisors because even more complicated

1155
00:43:05,631 –> 00:43:06,813
[paul_tyler]: michele than that like for instance

1156
00:43:07,717 –> 00:43:07,779
[michelle_richter]: ah

1157
00:43:07,894 –> 00:43:12,562
[paul_tyler]: state of connecticut does not allow us
to talk about agents is that interesting as

1158
00:43:12,662 –> 00:43:17,931
[paul_tyler]: a independent product manufacture we have to
call them independent producers does anybody

1159
00:43:17,912 –> 00:43:17,953
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1160
00:43:17,991 –> 00:43:18,131
[paul_tyler]: know

1161
00:43:18,175 –> 00:43:18,360
[michelle_richter]: huh

1162
00:43:18,192 –> 00:43:19,654
[paul_tyler]: that does anybody under and they

1163
00:43:19,685 –> 00:43:19,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1164
00:43:19,694 –> 00:43:20,616
[paul_tyler]: do consume now

1165
00:43:21,015 –> 00:43:21,137
[michelle_richter]: no

1166
00:43:21,677 –> 00:43:22,960
[paul_tyler]: but that you are an independent

1167
00:43:22,816 –> 00:43:22,918
[michelle_richter]: no

1168
00:43:23,220 –> 00:43:27,988
[paul_tyler]: you know ramsey is an independent producer
so just footnote that there are some very

1169
00:43:28,148 –> 00:43:28,489
[paul_tyler]: strange

1170
00:43:28,195 –> 00:43:28,663
[michelle_richter]: damn

1171
00:43:28,569 –> 00:43:30,732
[paul_tyler]: vagaries in existing

1172
00:43:30,545 –> 00:43:30,786
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1173
00:43:31,193 –> 00:43:31,982
[paul_tyler]: league structures

1174
00:43:32,378 –> 00:43:32,680
[michelle_richter]: and not

1175
00:43:33,164 –> 00:43:33,389
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1176
00:43:33,455 –> 00:43:33,795
[michelle_richter]: that’s the

1177
00:43:33,806 –> 00:43:34,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: yah

1178
00:43:33,855 –> 00:43:37,020
[michelle_richter]: whole point i mean it’s you know
our field is state regulated

1179
00:43:37,004 –> 00:43:37,347
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1180
00:43:37,101 –> 00:43:39,184
[michelle_richter]: and every state has a different impression

1181
00:43:38,904 –> 00:43:38,924
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1182
00:43:39,324 –> 00:43:40,486
[michelle_richter]: of what our behavior

1183
00:43:40,454 –> 00:43:41,234
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1184
00:43:40,546 –> 00:43:43,972
[michelle_richter]: is supposed to look like and so
because it’s not a nationally

1185
00:43:43,685 –> 00:43:43,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1186
00:43:44,072 –> 00:43:44,633
[michelle_richter]: regulated

1187
00:43:44,497 –> 00:43:44,538
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1188
00:43:44,733 –> 00:43:46,307
[michelle_richter]: field you can’t get scale able

1189
00:43:46,955 –> 00:43:47,197
[paul_tyler]: right

1190
00:43:48,215 –> 00:43:48,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1191
00:43:48,425 –> 00:43:52,789
[michelle_richter]: but since but because of demutualization now

1192
00:43:52,856 –> 00:43:52,957
[paul_tyler]: ah

1193
00:43:53,771 –> 00:43:57,898
[michelle_richter]: it’s no longer the case that distribution
and manufacturing are in the same

1194
00:43:57,867 –> 00:43:57,968
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1195
00:43:57,998 –> 00:43:58,799
[michelle_richter]: organization

1196
00:43:58,946 –> 00:43:59,188
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1197
00:43:59,480 –> 00:44:02,726
[michelle_richter]: so i’m not sure that the i’m
sure

1198
00:44:02,735 –> 00:44:03,001
[ramsey_d_smith]: m oh

1199
00:44:02,866 –> 00:44:05,110
[michelle_richter]: that state regulation of products

1200
00:44:04,676 –> 00:44:05,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1201
00:44:05,390 –> 00:44:06,712
[michelle_richter]: is has merit

1202
00:44:06,944 –> 00:44:08,294
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1203
00:44:07,313 –> 00:44:09,337
[michelle_richter]: i’m less certain that state regulation of

1204
00:44:09,335 –> 00:44:09,356
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1205
00:44:09,374 –> 00:44:09,741
[paul_tyler]: okay

1206
00:44:09,397 –> 00:44:13,964
[michelle_richter]: distribution remains the most meritorious method of
oversight

1207
00:44:14,004 –> 00:44:14,186
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1208
00:44:14,276 –> 00:44:14,517
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1209
00:44:14,727 –> 00:44:19,767
[michelle_richter]: given that those entities no longer live
with each other no

1210
00:44:20,446 –> 00:44:22,109
[paul_tyler]: interesting ay that’s a whole nother podcast

1211
00:44:21,926 –> 00:44:21,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1212
00:44:23,527 –> 00:44:23,729
[michelle_richter]: yes

1213
00:44:24,112 –> 00:44:24,412
[paul_tyler]: the other

1214
00:44:24,301 –> 00:44:24,896
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah

1215
00:44:24,553 –> 00:44:25,735
[paul_tyler]: observation i love

1216
00:44:25,685 –> 00:44:25,706
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1217
00:44:25,815 –> 00:44:29,281
[paul_tyler]: your concept of income under management however

1218
00:44:29,516 –> 00:44:29,819
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1219
00:44:29,521 –> 00:44:33,307
[paul_tyler]: man my head starts to spend because
think of any one of our products g

1220
00:44:33,488 –> 00:44:33,688
[paul_tyler]: is that

1221
00:44:33,656 –> 00:44:34,796
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1222
00:44:33,708 –> 00:44:38,196
[paul_tyler]: the you know i’m not expecting is
that the guaranteed income off of the product

1223
00:44:38,376 –> 00:44:39,818
[paul_tyler]: is this the potential

1224
00:44:39,875 –> 00:44:40,019
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1225
00:44:39,899 –> 00:44:41,942
[paul_tyler]: income based on you mark you know

1226
00:44:41,985 –> 00:44:43,427
[michelle_richter]: it’s the max of

1227
00:44:43,484 –> 00:44:43,747
[paul_tyler]: yea

1228
00:44:44,008 –> 00:44:52,682
[michelle_richter]: the guaranteed benefit made available through the
product structure or dolls translation metric that was

1229
00:44:53,003 –> 00:44:53,784
[michelle_richter]: interim final

1230
00:44:53,756 –> 00:44:54,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1231
00:44:54,065 –> 00:44:54,185
[michelle_richter]: dan

1232
00:44:54,224 –> 00:44:54,508
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1233
00:44:54,425 –> 00:44:57,891
[michelle_richter]: i think became final guidance on second
quarter twenty twenty

1234
00:44:57,725 –> 00:44:57,746
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1235
00:44:57,951 –> 00:44:58,692
[michelle_richter]: two statements

1236
00:44:58,346 –> 00:44:58,879
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1237
00:44:59,253 –> 00:44:59,414
[michelle_richter]: that

1238
00:44:59,426 –> 00:44:59,749
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1239
00:44:59,554 –> 00:45:01,337
[michelle_richter]: translated assets to income

1240
00:45:01,706 –> 00:45:02,813
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1241
00:45:01,838 –> 00:45:04,402
[michelle_richter]: that would be the appropriate method by
which to

1242
00:45:04,405 –> 00:45:04,526
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1243
00:45:04,502 –> 00:45:05,023
[michelle_richter]: accomplish

1244
00:45:04,826 –> 00:45:05,212
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1245
00:45:05,564 –> 00:45:06,206
[michelle_richter]: a building base

1246
00:45:06,146 –> 00:45:06,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1247
00:45:06,306 –> 00:45:07,492
[michelle_richter]: where income under management

1248
00:45:09,566 –> 00:45:09,892
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1249
00:45:12,490 –> 00:45:12,591
[michelle_richter]: so

1250
00:45:12,566 –> 00:45:12,707
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1251
00:45:13,415 –> 00:45:17,582
[michelle_richter]: it should be considered in my view
and in particular it should be considered because

1252
00:45:17,822 –> 00:45:21,909
[michelle_richter]: aria has retirement income in the name
is

1253
00:45:21,837 –> 00:45:21,857
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1254
00:45:22,009 –> 00:45:23,431
[michelle_richter]: not about maximization

1255
00:45:23,045 –> 00:45:23,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1256
00:45:23,491 –> 00:45:24,092
[michelle_richter]: of assets

1257
00:45:23,734 –> 00:45:24,326
[ramsey_d_smith]: hm

1258
00:45:24,373 –> 00:45:25,535
[michelle_richter]: everybody complain is

1259
00:45:25,616 –> 00:45:25,778
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1260
00:45:25,635 –> 00:45:29,842
[michelle_richter]: that d c is focused exclusively on
acid accumulation

1261
00:45:29,987 –> 00:45:30,027
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1262
00:45:30,343 –> 00:45:35,351
[michelle_richter]: and you want to know why it’s
because of the method by which compensation occurs

1263
00:45:35,852 –> 00:45:36,092
[michelle_richter]: right

1264
00:45:35,936 –> 00:45:36,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1265
00:45:36,934 –> 00:45:41,274
[michelle_richter]: like it always is right everywhere in
humanity

1266
00:45:41,285 –> 00:45:41,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1267
00:45:41,536 –> 00:45:42,261
[michelle_richter]: that’s the truth

1268
00:45:43,085 –> 00:45:43,106
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1269
00:45:43,425 –> 00:45:47,270
[michelle_richter]: so you know if we want something
different and we continue to do the same

1270
00:45:47,350 –> 00:45:52,367
[michelle_richter]: thing we experience the definition of crazy
so

1271
00:45:52,376 –> 00:45:52,597
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1272
00:45:52,567 –> 00:45:55,519
[michelle_richter]: in order to do to accomplish something
different we must do

1273
00:45:55,526 –> 00:45:56,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1274
00:45:55,639 –> 00:45:56,322
[michelle_richter]: something different

1275
00:45:57,575 –> 00:45:57,596
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1276
00:45:59,065 –> 00:46:03,672
[michelle_richter]: my third assertion is that the impossibility
of intellectual property

1277
00:46:03,716 –> 00:46:03,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1278
00:46:03,772 –> 00:46:10,504
[michelle_richter]: having value in my field is an
offense about which utter outrage is merited it

1279
00:46:10,564 –> 00:46:10,624
[michelle_richter]: is

1280
00:46:10,646 –> 00:46:10,907
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1281
00:46:10,844 –> 00:46:18,457
[michelle_richter]: i direct affront to the very principles
of capitalism capitalism as a governing frame relies

1282
00:46:18,637 –> 00:46:25,589
[michelle_richter]: heavily upon intellectual property being protectable and
mont is able so as to encourage invention

1283
00:46:26,186 –> 00:46:26,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1284
00:46:26,390 –> 00:46:30,898
[michelle_richter]: thus i question why is mine the
soul field in this

1285
00:46:30,785 –> 00:46:30,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1286
00:46:30,998 –> 00:46:36,487
[michelle_richter]: country to which capitalism is not permitted
to apply on why are other members of

1287
00:46:36,587 –> 00:46:41,856
[michelle_richter]: my community not apoplectic about my true
words consider the

1288
00:46:41,825 –> 00:46:42,060
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1289
00:46:41,936 –> 00:46:49,088
[michelle_richter]: implications that not codifying verb sales in
our domain has now that post secure annuities

1290
00:46:49,268 –> 00:46:56,480
[michelle_richter]: are permissible in plans plan advisors like
all other faduciaries in america are inherently taught

1291
00:46:56,580 –> 00:47:04,213
[michelle_richter]: that asset maximization is the only valid
lens through which financial advisement can occur yet

1292
00:47:04,494 –> 00:47:09,843
[michelle_richter]: i believe that financials occur not only
on the left side of the consumer balance

1293
00:47:09,923 –> 00:47:16,173
[michelle_richter]: sheet but all so on their income
statement their statement of net worth their cash

1294
00:47:16,253 –> 00:47:16,434
[michelle_richter]: flow

1295
00:47:16,376 –> 00:47:16,617
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1296
00:47:16,574 –> 00:47:18,918
[michelle_richter]: statement and the right side

1297
00:47:18,686 –> 00:47:18,948
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1298
00:47:19,018 –> 00:47:20,681
[michelle_richter]: of their balance sheet which

1299
00:47:20,524 –> 00:47:20,685
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1300
00:47:20,741 –> 00:47:23,225
[michelle_richter]: is where insurance plays plan

1301
00:47:23,156 –> 00:47:24,176
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1302
00:47:23,366 –> 00:47:25,818
[michelle_richter]: advisors don’t know annuities and vice

1303
00:47:25,676 –> 00:47:26,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1304
00:47:25,919 –> 00:47:31,211
[michelle_richter]: versa advisors can’t even begin to imagine
why we insurance

1305
00:47:30,795 –> 00:47:30,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: right

1306
00:47:31,271 –> 00:47:36,400
[michelle_richter]: people believe our solutions have value because
they are taught to see the world through

1307
00:47:36,440 –> 00:47:38,343
[michelle_richter]: the lens of asset maximization

1308
00:47:37,916 –> 00:47:38,696
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1309
00:47:38,844 –> 00:47:44,373
[michelle_richter]: in there not taught about liability minimization
as a valid entry point to a consumer

1310
00:47:44,473 –> 00:47:45,395
[michelle_richter]: finance world view

1311
00:47:45,695 –> 00:47:45,716
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1312
00:47:46,517 –> 00:47:47,959
[michelle_richter]: annuities in d c will

1313
00:47:47,906 –> 00:47:48,152
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1314
00:47:48,140 –> 00:47:51,385
[michelle_richter]: only take off if we band together
to fight for their ace

1315
00:47:51,905 –> 00:47:51,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1316
00:47:52,407 –> 00:47:53,088
[michelle_richter]: actuaries

1317
00:47:52,611 –> 00:47:52,632
[ramsey_d_smith]: i

1318
00:47:53,208 –> 00:47:56,053
[michelle_richter]: for example used to have a role
in asset

1319
00:47:56,126 –> 00:47:57,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1320
00:47:56,133 –> 00:47:57,956
[michelle_richter]: liability matching when we

1321
00:47:57,905 –> 00:47:57,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1322
00:47:58,196 –> 00:48:00,941
[michelle_richter]: as a society had defined benefit pension
plans

1323
00:48:00,845 –> 00:48:00,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1324
00:48:01,902 –> 00:48:06,408
[michelle_richter]: but now in d c there isn’t
a natural spot for an actuary in d

1325
00:48:06,628 –> 00:48:06,648
[michelle_richter]: c

1326
00:48:06,905 –> 00:48:06,926
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1327
00:48:06,968 –> 00:48:07,348
[michelle_richter]: because

1328
00:48:07,556 –> 00:48:07,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1329
00:48:07,809 –> 00:48:14,235
[michelle_richter]: liability consideration is not yet required so
as to advise in d c s d

1330
00:48:14,455 –> 00:48:23,951
[michelle_richter]: c again naturally emphasizes asset maximization so
the society of actuaries nata and iri must

1331
00:48:24,192 –> 00:48:28,879
[michelle_richter]: all strongly consider the possibly ity that
my words might be true and if they

1332
00:48:28,979 –> 00:48:31,723
[michelle_richter]: feel they might be they need to
begin acting

1333
00:48:31,525 –> 00:48:31,646
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1334
00:48:31,983 –> 00:48:34,056
[michelle_richter]: yesterday representatives

1335
00:48:33,866 –> 00:48:34,049
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1336
00:48:34,196 –> 00:48:36,320
[michelle_richter]: of any of these industry organizations

1337
00:48:36,446 –> 00:48:38,385
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1338
00:48:36,560 –> 00:48:40,507
[michelle_richter]: or other organizations that can help change
the circumstances

1339
00:48:40,316 –> 00:48:40,336
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1340
00:48:40,627 –> 00:48:43,912
[michelle_richter]: i have just described are invited to
email me at

1341
00:48:44,195 –> 00:48:44,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1342
00:48:44,213 –> 00:48:48,300
[michelle_richter]: m rector f s at g mail
dot com and request a

1343
00:48:48,296 –> 00:48:48,660
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1344
00:48:48,380 –> 00:48:50,844
[michelle_richter]: death that further explains this perspective

1345
00:48:50,906 –> 00:48:51,213
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1346
00:48:51,245 –> 00:48:53,689
[michelle_richter]: and the dangers that follow logically therefrom

1347
00:48:54,418 –> 00:48:54,479
[ramsey_d_smith]: no

1348
00:48:54,590 –> 00:48:59,799
[michelle_richter]: lastly for this diatribe i hold and
and advisement should be a national field again

1349
00:48:59,979 –> 00:49:05,268
[michelle_richter]: it is not about the non placement
it is about contextual advisement it is not

1350
00:49:05,348 –> 00:49:11,478
[michelle_richter]: persacorrelated to an individual contract the way
some state insurance law allows annuity consulting to

1351
00:49:11,558 –> 00:49:13,862
[michelle_richter]: a car that does not make sense
to be

1352
00:49:13,886 –> 00:49:14,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1353
00:49:13,942 –> 00:49:20,133
[michelle_richter]: state regulated should be policed similarly to
how r s are overseen achieving this framework

1354
00:49:20,273 –> 00:49:25,822
[michelle_richter]: is my career goal twenty seven years
remain until i begin taking social security at

1355
00:49:25,902 –> 00:49:31,932
[michelle_richter]: age seventy it thus follows logically that
i will not stop truthfully communicating my concerns

1356
00:49:32,013 –> 00:49:34,429
[michelle_richter]: on these matters for at least twenty
seven more years

1357
00:49:34,586 –> 00:49:34,606
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1358
00:49:35,616 –> 00:49:37,915
[michelle_richter]: or until it’s solved so

1359
00:49:38,036 –> 00:49:38,359
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1360
00:49:38,436 –> 00:49:41,000
[michelle_richter]: i thank you so much for your
patients and listening to me

1361
00:49:40,955 –> 00:49:40,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1362
00:49:41,080 –> 00:49:41,761
[michelle_richter]: through all of that

1363
00:49:41,748 –> 00:49:43,090
[bruno_caron]: oh

1364
00:49:41,841 –> 00:49:44,586
[michelle_richter]: i know it was a lot and
i know

1365
00:49:44,576 –> 00:49:44,897
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1366
00:49:44,866 –> 00:49:47,751
[michelle_richter]: you suffered but but i think

1367
00:49:47,726 –> 00:49:48,007
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1368
00:49:48,092 –> 00:49:49,274
[michelle_richter]: i think my words are true

1369
00:49:49,458 –> 00:49:50,268
[bruno_caron]: oh

1370
00:49:49,534 –> 00:49:50,908
[michelle_richter]: right time scared they might be

1371
00:49:51,318 –> 00:49:51,543
[bruno_caron]: oh

1372
00:49:51,716 –> 00:49:52,020
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1373
00:49:51,965 –> 00:49:52,911
[michelle_richter]: so i feel that

1374
00:49:53,088 –> 00:49:54,018
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1375
00:49:53,234 –> 00:49:54,261
[michelle_richter]: they should be considered

1376
00:49:54,686 –> 00:49:55,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1377
00:49:55,475 –> 00:49:56,398
[michelle_richter]: thank you for giving me

1378
00:49:56,456 –> 00:49:56,798
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1379
00:49:56,779 –> 00:49:57,501
[michelle_richter]: the audience to

1380
00:49:57,498 –> 00:49:57,699
[bruno_caron]: oh

1381
00:49:57,541 –> 00:49:58,103
[michelle_richter]: share that with

1382
00:49:59,818 –> 00:50:01,500
[ramsey_d_smith]: well thank you for sharing your thoughts

1383
00:50:01,236 –> 00:50:01,617
[michelle_richter]: esto

1384
00:50:01,538 –> 00:50:01,698
[bruno_caron]: thank

1385
00:50:01,560 –> 00:50:01,940
[ramsey_d_smith]: michelle

1386
00:50:01,778 –> 00:50:01,938
[bruno_caron]: you

1387
00:50:04,966 –> 00:50:05,127
[michelle_richter]: yes

1388
00:50:05,961 –> 00:50:06,082
[bruno_caron]: it’s

1389
00:50:06,086 –> 00:50:07,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1390
00:50:08,624 –> 00:50:08,684
[bruno_caron]: we

1391
00:50:08,685 –> 00:50:08,926
[michelle_richter]: oh

1392
00:50:09,044 –> 00:50:11,326
[bruno_caron]: already knew that there was never a
dull moment with

1393
00:50:11,266 –> 00:50:11,406
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1394
00:50:11,295 –> 00:50:14,565
[michelle_richter]: oh

1395
00:50:11,386 –> 00:50:11,486
[bruno_caron]: you

1396
00:50:14,600 –> 00:50:16,683
[bruno_caron]: but you prove that once more one
more time

1397
00:50:17,115 –> 00:50:18,348
[michelle_richter]: uh

1398
00:50:17,344 –> 00:50:17,605
[bruno_caron]: uh

1399
00:50:18,035 –> 00:50:18,986
[ramsey_d_smith]: h right

1400
00:50:18,874 –> 00:50:18,915
[michelle_richter]: uh

1401
00:50:19,127 –> 00:50:20,450
[bruno_caron]: i have a feeling we just went

1402
00:50:20,456 –> 00:50:20,738
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1403
00:50:20,510 –> 00:50:22,894
[bruno_caron]: back to basically college to logic

1404
00:50:22,706 –> 00:50:22,726
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1405
00:50:22,954 –> 00:50:23,354
[bruno_caron]: classes

1406
00:50:23,415 –> 00:50:25,605
[michelle_richter]: oh

1407
00:50:23,455 –> 00:50:25,618
[bruno_caron]: philosophy cal classes low

1408
00:50:25,445 –> 00:50:25,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1409
00:50:25,738 –> 00:50:26,620
[bruno_caron]: classes math

1410
00:50:26,715 –> 00:50:26,977
[michelle_richter]: oh

1411
00:50:26,720 –> 00:50:29,685
[bruno_caron]: classes accounting classes um

1412
00:50:30,126 –> 00:50:30,247
[michelle_richter]: es

1413
00:50:31,076 –> 00:50:31,583
[mark_chamberlain]: hm

1414
00:50:31,308 –> 00:50:31,388
[bruno_caron]: and

1415
00:50:31,435 –> 00:50:31,803
[michelle_richter]: that’s right

1416
00:50:33,146 –> 00:50:34,256
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1417
00:50:33,612 –> 00:50:34,012
[bruno_caron]: i always

1418
00:50:34,496 –> 00:50:35,276
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1419
00:50:34,834 –> 00:50:35,915
[bruno_caron]: i always like the analogy

1420
00:50:35,576 –> 00:50:35,777
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1421
00:50:35,935 –> 00:50:37,137
[bruno_caron]: between the balance sheet in the end

1422
00:50:37,076 –> 00:50:37,096
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1423
00:50:37,378 –> 00:50:40,323
[bruno_caron]: statement but you bring it a step
forward

1424
00:50:40,106 –> 00:50:40,409
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1425
00:50:40,423 –> 00:50:44,550
[bruno_caron]: you know a step further with with
the right hand side of the balance sheet

1426
00:50:44,630 –> 00:50:45,251
[bruno_caron]: the net worth

1427
00:50:45,266 –> 00:50:45,286
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1428
00:50:45,612 –> 00:50:46,233
[bruno_caron]: the cash little

1429
00:50:46,256 –> 00:50:46,419
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1430
00:50:46,273 –> 00:50:46,673
[bruno_caron]: statement

1431
00:50:47,246 –> 00:50:47,488
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1432
00:50:47,915 –> 00:50:53,905
[bruno_caron]: and you know and in such an
eloquent way so i hope the the stake

1433
00:50:53,946 –> 00:50:54,326
[bruno_caron]: holders

1434
00:50:54,729 –> 00:50:54,893
[ramsey_d_smith]: kay

1435
00:50:54,767 –> 00:50:56,690
[bruno_caron]: will make it to the right stake
holders

1436
00:50:56,486 –> 00:50:56,711
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1437
00:50:57,091 –> 00:50:57,251
[bruno_caron]: and

1438
00:50:57,356 –> 00:50:58,196
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1439
00:50:58,413 –> 00:50:59,335
[bruno_caron]: we’ll definitely push for that

1440
00:51:00,815 –> 00:51:02,216
[michelle_richter]: thank you thank you

1441
00:51:02,195 –> 00:51:02,216
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1442
00:51:02,396 –> 00:51:08,683
[michelle_richter]: so much you guys really elevate the
dialogue in our industry i appreciate the work

1443
00:51:08,763 –> 00:51:09,824
[michelle_richter]: that you do so much

1444
00:51:11,336 –> 00:51:13,602
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah all you’re on mute

1445
00:51:13,455 –> 00:51:13,864
[michelle_richter]: oh

1446
00:51:15,509 –> 00:51:15,529
[bruno_caron]: m

1447
00:51:15,836 –> 00:51:16,016
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1448
00:51:16,676 –> 00:51:16,837
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1449
00:51:17,614 –> 00:51:19,938
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m telling it’s two thousand
twenty two is

1450
00:51:19,946 –> 00:51:20,906
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1451
00:51:20,018 –> 00:51:21,541
[paul_tyler]: almost okay two thousand twenty three

1452
00:51:21,545 –> 00:51:21,566
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1453
00:51:21,621 –> 00:51:22,262
[paul_tyler]: that will not be

1454
00:51:22,196 –> 00:51:22,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1455
00:51:22,322 –> 00:51:24,666
[paul_tyler]: a word but yeah michell

1456
00:51:24,555 –> 00:51:24,797
[michelle_richter]: uh

1457
00:51:24,846 –> 00:51:24,926
[paul_tyler]: no

1458
00:51:25,343 –> 00:51:25,363
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1459
00:51:25,467 –> 00:51:25,888
[paul_tyler]: no no

1460
00:51:25,865 –> 00:51:25,886
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1461
00:51:26,008 –> 00:51:26,309
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1462
00:51:26,276 –> 00:51:27,000
[ramsey_d_smith]: uh

1463
00:51:26,349 –> 00:51:26,389
[paul_tyler]: i

1464
00:51:26,434 –> 00:51:26,475
[michelle_richter]: uh

1465
00:51:26,449 –> 00:51:27,290
[paul_tyler]: think look

1466
00:51:27,785 –> 00:51:27,806
[ramsey_d_smith]: h

1467
00:51:28,292 –> 00:51:28,632
[paul_tyler]: it takes

1468
00:51:28,433 –> 00:51:28,715
[mark_chamberlain]: oh

1469
00:51:28,693 –> 00:51:29,474
[paul_tyler]: a lot to to

1470
00:51:29,541 –> 00:51:29,723
[mark_chamberlain]: yeah

1471
00:51:29,634 –> 00:51:30,194
[paul_tyler]: change this

1472
00:51:30,095 –> 00:51:30,116
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1473
00:51:30,295 –> 00:51:31,716
[paul_tyler]: world and you know your your

1474
00:51:32,546 –> 00:51:32,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1475
00:51:32,997 –> 00:51:33,758
[paul_tyler]: wow to

1476
00:51:34,046 –> 00:51:34,066
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1477
00:51:34,639 –> 00:51:37,662
[paul_tyler]: provide more retirement security for people especially
the war

1478
00:51:37,646 –> 00:51:37,666
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1479
00:51:37,762 –> 00:51:38,482
[paul_tyler]: place is

1480
00:51:40,579 –> 00:51:41,539
[ramsey_d_smith]: ah yeah

1481
00:51:42,709 –> 00:51:42,789
[paul_tyler]: it

1482
00:51:43,526 –> 00:51:43,831
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1483
00:51:44,471 –> 00:51:47,496
[paul_tyler]: requires a lot of different organizations

1484
00:51:47,186 –> 00:51:47,550
[ramsey_d_smith]: my

1485
00:51:47,577 –> 00:51:48,638
[paul_tyler]: and legal structures

1486
00:51:48,206 –> 00:51:48,470
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1487
00:51:48,739 –> 00:51:50,341
[paul_tyler]: to change to make sense

1488
00:51:51,755 –> 00:51:51,899
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1489
00:51:51,924 –> 00:51:56,912
[paul_tyler]: especially when you think of a typical
company may have employes in all fifty states

1490
00:51:58,014 –> 00:51:59,977
[paul_tyler]: fifty different state laws may apply

1491
00:52:01,565 –> 00:52:01,586
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1492
00:52:01,969 –> 00:52:02,535
[michelle_richter]: hm

1493
00:52:02,161 –> 00:52:03,563
[paul_tyler]: securities and exchange

1494
00:52:03,239 –> 00:52:04,890
[michelle_richter]: there is no commissions in arica

1495
00:52:04,994 –> 00:52:05,760
[paul_tyler]: uh

1496
00:52:05,216 –> 00:52:05,236
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1497
00:52:05,815 –> 00:52:07,743
[michelle_richter]: so how are you going to pay
the insurance expert

1498
00:52:07,955 –> 00:52:07,976
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1499
00:52:08,496 –> 00:52:09,780
[paul_tyler]: yeah it’s this is a challenge

1500
00:52:09,515 –> 00:52:09,536
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1501
00:52:09,800 –> 00:52:09,860
[paul_tyler]: so

1502
00:52:10,256 –> 00:52:10,461
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1503
00:52:11,216 –> 00:52:11,898
[paul_tyler]: question for you is

1504
00:52:12,185 –> 00:52:12,206
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1505
00:52:13,284 –> 00:52:17,110
[paul_tyler]: yes we untangle you know the gordian
not here

1506
00:52:17,254 –> 00:52:17,295
[michelle_richter]: uh

1507
00:52:18,392 –> 00:52:23,661
[paul_tyler]: if i’m a typical employe five years
ten years from now how is the experience

1508
00:52:23,741 –> 00:52:26,711
[paul_tyler]: different then it is today

1509
00:52:29,276 –> 00:52:32,441
[michelle_richter]: i think it’s much more likely that
more plans

1510
00:52:32,213 –> 00:52:32,233
[mark_chamberlain]: m

1511
00:52:32,622 –> 00:52:40,615
[michelle_richter]: provide access to a financial professional like
through the employer preveded and financial professional think

1512
00:52:40,695 –> 00:52:40,815
[michelle_richter]: it’s

1513
00:52:41,105 –> 00:52:41,126
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1514
00:52:41,497 –> 00:52:46,285
[michelle_richter]: that’s already becoming a thing and i
think there’ll be more of that

1515
00:52:46,934 –> 00:52:47,318
[paul_tyler]: oh

1516
00:52:47,707 –> 00:52:52,595
[michelle_richter]: and frankly there a lot of plan
advisors who are interested in entering into wealth

1517
00:52:52,695 –> 00:52:53,937
[michelle_richter]: management domain

1518
00:52:53,876 –> 00:52:53,978
[ramsey_d_smith]: ye

1519
00:52:54,098 –> 00:52:55,119
[michelle_richter]: so they’re going to gladly

1520
00:52:54,986 –> 00:52:55,006
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1521
00:52:55,219 –> 00:52:59,647
[michelle_richter]: provide it and that’s going to be
a threat to my people unless my people

1522
00:53:00,027 –> 00:53:00,268
[michelle_richter]: start

1523
00:53:00,146 –> 00:53:00,449
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1524
00:53:00,648 –> 00:53:01,891
[michelle_richter]: moving towards the d c

1525
00:53:02,015 –> 00:53:02,036
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1526
00:53:02,111 –> 00:53:06,728
[michelle_richter]: space right and how do they how
to you know have our place set the

1527
00:53:06,768 –> 00:53:07,030
[michelle_richter]: table

1528
00:53:07,354 –> 00:53:07,554
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1529
00:53:07,371 –> 00:53:07,552
[michelle_richter]: right

1530
00:53:08,015 –> 00:53:11,100
[paul_tyler]: well bruno we literally are at the
top of the hour

1531
00:53:12,285 –> 00:53:12,506
[michelle_richter]: uh

1532
00:53:12,703 –> 00:53:12,823
[paul_tyler]: what

1533
00:53:13,414 –> 00:53:13,455
[michelle_richter]: uh

1534
00:53:13,445 –> 00:53:13,466
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1535
00:53:14,065 –> 00:53:17,290
[paul_tyler]: last final words observations

1536
00:53:19,259 –> 00:53:19,360
[bruno_caron]: oh

1537
00:53:19,274 –> 00:53:20,264
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1538
00:53:19,860 –> 00:53:20,001
[bruno_caron]: boy

1539
00:53:20,546 –> 00:53:21,416
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1540
00:53:20,822 –> 00:53:23,627
[bruno_caron]: i have a list of questions i
don’t even go through my notes and some

1541
00:53:23,667 –> 00:53:23,967
[bruno_caron]: of the things

1542
00:53:24,015 –> 00:53:27,034
[michelle_richter]: yea

1543
00:53:24,248 –> 00:53:26,832
[bruno_caron]: i wanted to talk about and i
wrote more

1544
00:53:27,005 –> 00:53:27,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1545
00:53:27,173 –> 00:53:30,097
[bruno_caron]: it’s usually the other way around so
i don’t even know where to start

1546
00:53:29,986 –> 00:53:30,474
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1547
00:53:30,238 –> 00:53:32,321
[bruno_caron]: to even to

1548
00:53:32,295 –> 00:53:32,477
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1549
00:53:32,421 –> 00:53:33,223
[bruno_caron]: even to even

1550
00:53:33,304 –> 00:53:33,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1551
00:53:33,423 –> 00:53:34,966
[bruno_caron]: end this but

1552
00:53:34,995 –> 00:53:35,217
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1553
00:53:35,346 –> 00:53:36,047
[bruno_caron]: i’ll simply say

1554
00:53:36,005 –> 00:53:36,026
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1555
00:53:36,148 –> 00:53:37,971
[bruno_caron]: thank you and we also

1556
00:53:37,895 –> 00:53:37,916
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1557
00:53:38,071 –> 00:53:38,712
[bruno_caron]: very very

1558
00:53:38,615 –> 00:53:38,636
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1559
00:53:38,752 –> 00:53:39,373
[bruno_caron]: much appreciate

1560
00:53:39,476 –> 00:53:39,824
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1561
00:53:39,513 –> 00:53:44,682
[bruno_caron]: all all you do for the industry
and such uh passionate and eloquent

1562
00:53:44,595 –> 00:53:44,796
[michelle_richter]: oh

1563
00:53:45,063 –> 00:53:46,906
[bruno_caron]: and rigorous would the

1564
00:53:46,871 –> 00:53:47,015
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1565
00:53:47,247 –> 00:53:47,347
[bruno_caron]: you

1566
00:53:47,276 –> 00:53:47,498
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1567
00:53:47,367 –> 00:53:50,874
[bruno_caron]: know kind of a word to you
so thank you

1568
00:53:51,998 –> 00:53:53,019
[ramsey_d_smith]: so i’ll just i’ll just

1569
00:53:53,145 –> 00:53:53,955
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1570
00:53:53,160 –> 00:53:58,428
[ramsey_d_smith]: echo that you know thank you michelle
look you you’re you’re willing to break some

1571
00:53:58,488 –> 00:54:00,672
[ramsey_d_smith]: glass which i think is always important

1572
00:54:01,005 –> 00:54:01,085
[paul_tyler]: ah

1573
00:54:01,512 –> 00:54:02,058
[bruno_caron]: hm

1574
00:54:01,553 –> 00:54:03,437
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and

1575
00:54:03,285 –> 00:54:04,245
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1576
00:54:04,198 –> 00:54:06,682
[ramsey_d_smith]: right and i’ll tell the audience like

1577
00:54:06,978 –> 00:54:07,222
[bruno_caron]: oh

1578
00:54:07,503 –> 00:54:12,311
[ramsey_d_smith]: well two things one is a huge
believer i’m a huge believer in the potential

1579
00:54:12,372 –> 00:54:16,759
[ramsey_d_smith]: for implantanuities and in the d the
importance of annuities in the d c space

1580
00:54:16,799 –> 00:54:19,864
[ramsey_d_smith]: to solve the retirement problem and you
know

1581
00:54:20,088 –> 00:54:20,375
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1582
00:54:20,205 –> 00:54:21,046
[ramsey_d_smith]: basically putting my money

1583
00:54:20,958 –> 00:54:21,220
[bruno_caron]: oh

1584
00:54:21,066 –> 00:54:25,393
[ramsey_d_smith]: where my mouth is and you know
as i as i take this journey a

1585
00:54:25,493 –> 00:54:29,440
[ramsey_d_smith]: lot of times when when want to
find out what’s going on one of my

1586
00:54:29,540 –> 00:54:31,884
[ramsey_d_smith]: very first calls is to michelle rector
so

1587
00:54:32,358 –> 00:54:32,559
[bruno_caron]: oh

1588
00:54:32,425 –> 00:54:35,170
[ramsey_d_smith]: i would say that to anybody in
the audience you would you would do well

1589
00:54:35,931 –> 00:54:39,758
[ramsey_d_smith]: to to reach out to michelle if
you if you want to become

1590
00:54:39,854 –> 00:54:41,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

1591
00:54:40,019 –> 00:54:43,609
[ramsey_d_smith]: more up to speed on on really
what is a very sort of complex space

1592
00:54:43,689 –> 00:54:45,314
[ramsey_d_smith]: so thank you for playing that role
michele

1593
00:54:47,125 –> 00:54:47,246
[michelle_richter]: oh

1594
00:54:47,416 –> 00:54:47,556
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1595
00:54:47,969 –> 00:54:48,712
[michelle_richter]: thank you so much

1596
00:54:49,119 –> 00:54:50,180
[paul_tyler]: michelle thank you mark

1597
00:54:50,006 –> 00:54:50,936
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1598
00:54:50,281 –> 00:54:50,741
[paul_tyler]: thank you

1599
00:54:51,236 –> 00:54:51,866
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1600
00:54:51,563 –> 00:54:52,745
[paul_tyler]: hey bruno what i would suggest

1601
00:54:52,766 –> 00:54:52,927
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1602
00:54:52,825 –> 00:54:56,571
[paul_tyler]: doing is let’s put your questions in
the linkedon post once this thing goes alive

1603
00:54:56,730 –> 00:54:56,915
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1604
00:54:56,932 –> 00:54:57,252
[paul_tyler]: michelle

1605
00:54:57,198 –> 00:54:57,622
[bruno_caron]: oh

1606
00:54:57,412 –> 00:54:57,993
[paul_tyler]: let’s let’s conti

1607
00:54:58,106 –> 00:54:58,347
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1608
00:54:58,414 –> 00:55:00,057
[paul_tyler]: mark let’s continue the discussion there

1609
00:55:00,106 –> 00:55:00,675
[michelle_richter]: absolutely

1610
00:55:00,568 –> 00:55:01,739
[ramsey_d_smith]: m ye

1611
00:55:01,700 –> 00:55:05,646
[paul_tyler]: lot of threads to pull here a
lot of dimensions i think

1612
00:55:05,576 –> 00:55:05,720
[michelle_richter]: yeah

1613
00:55:05,706 –> 00:55:06,207
[paul_tyler]: that we could

1614
00:55:06,605 –> 00:55:06,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1615
00:55:07,021 –> 00:55:07,142
[michelle_richter]: yep

1616
00:55:07,850 –> 00:55:09,993
[paul_tyler]: explore please

1617
00:55:10,446 –> 00:55:14,192
[michelle_richter]: i am an interesting follow on link
down so

1618
00:55:14,155 –> 00:55:17,564
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1619
00:55:14,433 –> 00:55:14,914
[michelle_richter]: consider

1620
00:55:14,716 –> 00:55:15,228
[bruno_caron]: hm

1621
00:55:14,974 –> 00:55:15,054
[michelle_richter]: it

1622
00:55:15,348 –> 00:55:15,671
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1623
00:55:15,716 –> 00:55:15,737
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1624
00:55:16,985 –> 00:55:17,167
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1625
00:55:17,462 –> 00:55:17,482
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1626
00:55:17,478 –> 00:55:18,500
[michelle_richter]: if any part of this

1627
00:55:18,438 –> 00:55:18,639
[bruno_caron]: oh

1628
00:55:18,605 –> 00:55:18,626
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1629
00:55:18,620 –> 00:55:19,261
[michelle_richter]: was appealing

1630
00:55:19,286 –> 00:55:19,306
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1631
00:55:19,321 –> 00:55:19,641
[michelle_richter]: to you

1632
00:55:19,754 –> 00:55:21,014
[paul_tyler]: yeah

1633
00:55:20,403 –> 00:55:20,783
[michelle_richter]: you should

1634
00:55:20,817 –> 00:55:20,838
[bruno_caron]: m

1635
00:55:20,863 –> 00:55:21,324
[michelle_richter]: consider

1636
00:55:20,966 –> 00:55:21,187
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1637
00:55:21,464 –> 00:55:21,864
[paul_tyler]: i agree

1638
00:55:21,726 –> 00:55:22,087
[michelle_richter]: allowing

1639
00:55:21,778 –> 00:55:21,980
[bruno_caron]: yeah

1640
00:55:22,127 –> 00:55:22,489
[michelle_richter]: in linked

1641
00:55:22,405 –> 00:55:22,485
[paul_tyler]: no

1642
00:55:22,529 –> 00:55:22,589
[michelle_richter]: in

1643
00:55:22,626 –> 00:55:23,587
[paul_tyler]: i agree so okay

1644
00:55:23,486 –> 00:55:24,446
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1645
00:55:23,727 –> 00:55:25,010
[paul_tyler]: continue it there we’ll move this

1646
00:55:24,926 –> 00:55:24,946
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1647
00:55:25,070 –> 00:55:26,712
[paul_tyler]: from audio to text

1648
00:55:26,516 –> 00:55:26,838
[ramsey_d_smith]: yeah

1649
00:55:26,833 –> 00:55:27,393
[paul_tyler]: on linked in

1650
00:55:28,128 –> 00:55:28,496
[bruno_caron]: oh

1651
00:55:28,395 –> 00:55:31,420
[paul_tyler]: mark michelle thank you ramsey bruno thank
you michelle

1652
00:55:31,796 –> 00:55:31,816
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

1653
00:55:31,821 –> 00:55:34,265
[paul_tyler]: either sent us a link to what
you just read or send us the text

1654
00:55:34,305 –> 00:55:35,166
[paul_tyler]: and we’ll pop it in the

1655
00:55:35,105 –> 00:55:35,266
[michelle_richter]: yes

1656
00:55:35,227 –> 00:55:35,487
[paul_tyler]: notes

1657
00:55:35,428 –> 00:55:35,650
[michelle_richter]: i will

1658
00:55:36,268 –> 00:55:41,537
[paul_tyler]: uh give us feedback you’re listening thank
you for sticking with us give us feedback

1659
00:55:41,818 –> 00:55:46,486
[paul_tyler]: give us questions give us guess suggestions
we definitely listen and

1660
00:55:47,156 –> 00:55:47,478
[ramsey_d_smith]: oh

1661
00:55:47,208 –> 00:55:52,302
[paul_tyler]: gettin next week for another great episode
of that annuity show thanks thanks everybody

1662
00:55:53,738 –> 00:55:54,024
[bruno_caron]: thank you

1663
00:55:53,936 –> 00:55:53,956
[ramsey_d_smith]: m

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 172: Making In-Plan Annuities a Reality with Michelle Richter and Mark Chamberlain – 1 of 2
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Episode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark

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Can a mutual fund create new income potential for investors by sharing mortality risk? The answer is “yes”, starting in Canada. Fraser Stark, President of the Longevity Retirement Platform for Purpose Financial joins us to talk about his company’s novel product.

Links mentioned in the show:

https://www.retirewithlongevity.com/

https://www.purpose-unlimited.com/home

https://www.linkedin.com/in/fstark/

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Episode Transcript

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

1
00:00:00,780 –> 00:00:02,861
[paul_tyler]: yeah hi this is paul tyler

2
00:00:02,942 –> 00:00:03,226
[bruno_caron]: yeah

3
00:00:03,062 –> 00:00:07,569
[paul_tyler]: and welcome to another episode of that
annuity show and today

4
00:00:07,232 –> 00:00:08,012
[bruno_caron]: oh

5
00:00:08,250 –> 00:00:14,861
[paul_tyler]: we are talking about a very novel
solution for generating retirement and income in canada

6
00:00:15,743 –> 00:00:19,489
[paul_tyler]: okay so we’re goin t have a
lot of interesting interesting questions here today but

7
00:00:19,810 –> 00:00:20,351
[paul_tyler]: before i jump

8
00:00:20,222 –> 00:00:20,242
[bruno_caron]: m

9
00:00:20,451 –> 00:00:21,493
[paul_tyler]: in i want to introduce

10
00:00:21,332 –> 00:00:22,382
[bruno_caron]: oh

11
00:00:21,573 –> 00:00:25,599
[paul_tyler]: our audience to tessa raban marshall who’s
joining us as a host

12
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[bruno_caron]: oh

13
00:00:26,020 –> 00:00:27,162
[paul_tyler]: you know tis a can you tell

14
00:00:27,009 –> 00:00:27,191
[bruno_caron]: yeah

15
00:00:27,243 –> 00:00:29,166
[paul_tyler]: people just a little bit about

16
00:00:29,102 –> 00:00:29,324
[bruno_caron]: oh

17
00:00:29,567 –> 00:00:30,068
[paul_tyler]: yourself

18
00:00:31,378 –> 00:00:33,682
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sure thanks paul so

19
00:00:34,020 –> 00:00:34,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

20
00:00:34,464 –> 00:00:38,570
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i have about twenty years experience in
the industry and i currently am working to

21
00:00:38,671 –> 00:00:44,712
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: manage the digital platforms and tools for
our retiring and our agents here at na

22
00:00:44,812 –> 00:00:44,994
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: sah

23
00:00:45,572 –> 00:00:45,857
[bruno_caron]: oh

24
00:00:46,150 –> 00:00:50,134
[paul_tyler]: yeah so anyway welcome thanks for thanks
for getting behind the mike this is great

25
00:00:50,514 –> 00:00:50,794
[paul_tyler]: bruno

26
00:00:51,368 –> 00:00:51,792
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

27
00:00:51,535 –> 00:00:54,658
[paul_tyler]: tell us what’s up and who did
you get for us to come on the

28
00:00:54,878 –> 00:00:56,126
[paul_tyler]: show today oh

29
00:00:56,317 –> 00:01:01,065
[bruno_caron]: sure it will be my my pleasure
to to introduce you to fraser stark who

30
00:01:01,125 –> 00:01:09,980
[bruno_caron]: is the president and of longevity retirement
platform at purpose here in here in toronto

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[bruno_caron]: ontario canada m fraser has a very
very interesting background obviously extremely focused on the

32
00:01:20,558 –> 00:01:28,571
[bruno_caron]: on the financial services but not just
on the on the financial services but never

33
00:01:29,012 –> 00:01:32,738
[bruno_caron]: we’re very very excited and very pleased
and fraser welcome

34
00:01:33,635 –> 00:01:34,922
[fraser_stark]: thanks for having me on it’s great
to be here

35
00:01:36,713 –> 00:01:44,760
[bruno_caron]: so you know you know my first
question is obviously is in terms of lifetime

36
00:01:44,820 –> 00:01:53,513
[bruno_caron]: income solutions you have academic major academic
bodies that have that i’ve supported this that

37
00:01:53,554 –> 00:02:00,666
[bruno_caron]: i’ve written about it many entrepreneurs including
myself as try to bring this type of

38
00:02:00,726 –> 00:02:04,063
[bruno_caron]: solution and you guys are the

39
00:02:04,058 –> 00:02:04,285
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

40
00:02:04,103 –> 00:02:07,088
[bruno_caron]: first ones to do it you know
over the entire world

41
00:02:08,232 –> 00:02:08,313
[paul_tyler]: no

42
00:02:08,270 –> 00:02:08,951
[bruno_caron]: how did you do it

43
00:02:09,068 –> 00:02:09,788
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

44
00:02:09,895 –> 00:02:10,197
[fraser_stark]: uh

45
00:02:10,013 –> 00:02:11,295
[bruno_caron]: that’s my that’s my question

46
00:02:10,964 –> 00:02:11,005
[fraser_stark]: uh

47
00:02:11,415 –> 00:02:12,717
[bruno_caron]: how how in this world

48
00:02:12,510 –> 00:02:13,710
[paul_tyler]: oh

49
00:02:13,298 –> 00:02:17,987
[bruno_caron]: you know were you able to successfully
launched this this venture

50
00:02:18,830 –> 00:02:19,230
[paul_tyler]: yeah maybe you

51
00:02:19,217 –> 00:02:19,378
[fraser_stark]: yeah

52
00:02:19,250 –> 00:02:22,896
[paul_tyler]: just tell maybe you could phrase just
tell us what it is that would be

53
00:02:22,956 –> 00:02:23,657
[paul_tyler]: great and then

54
00:02:24,155 –> 00:02:25,016
[fraser_stark]: yeah why don’t

55
00:02:25,000 –> 00:02:25,080
[paul_tyler]: how

56
00:02:25,056 –> 00:02:25,076
[fraser_stark]: i

57
00:02:25,101 –> 00:02:25,161
[paul_tyler]: do

58
00:02:25,136 –> 00:02:25,276
[fraser_stark]: start

59
00:02:25,201 –> 00:02:25,302
[paul_tyler]: you

60
00:02:25,337 –> 00:02:25,437
[fraser_stark]: with

61
00:02:25,343 –> 00:02:25,423
[paul_tyler]: do

62
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[fraser_stark]: what

63
00:02:25,504 –> 00:02:25,564
[paul_tyler]: it

64
00:02:25,637 –> 00:02:27,540
[fraser_stark]: it is and then and then how
we did it that that

65
00:02:27,480 –> 00:02:27,726
[paul_tyler]: yes

66
00:02:27,620 –> 00:02:28,702
[fraser_stark]: sounds that sounds excellent

67
00:02:29,132 –> 00:02:29,459
[bruno_caron]: oh

68
00:02:29,283 –> 00:02:35,393
[fraser_stark]: so the longevity pension fund is the
world’s first longevity risk pulling in a mutual

69
00:02:35,473 –> 00:02:40,762
[fraser_stark]: fund this is not a new concept
this idea of a variable lifetime income is

70
00:02:40,882 –> 00:02:45,610
[fraser_stark]: not new you know it’s existed in
europe as tantins for many years canada has

71
00:02:45,650 –> 00:02:49,218
[fraser_stark]: been experimenting this with this for decades
australia

72
00:02:48,930 –> 00:02:49,259
[paul_tyler]: oh

73
00:02:49,438 –> 00:02:53,650
[fraser_stark]: more recently there’s lots of iterations of
it but we found a way to offer

74
00:02:53,791 –> 00:02:54,493
[fraser_stark]: investors

75
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[bruno_caron]: oh

76
00:02:55,225 –> 00:02:58,951
[fraser_stark]: income for life in a way that
their assets are still invested in the market

77
00:02:59,111 –> 00:03:04,079
[fraser_stark]: and they’re benefiting from market returns and
yet their risk pooling with the other investors

78
00:03:04,520 –> 00:03:05,281
[fraser_stark]: so we think it’s a

79
00:03:05,288 –> 00:03:05,589
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

80
00:03:05,341 –> 00:03:05,522
[fraser_stark]: great

81
00:03:05,462 –> 00:03:05,804
[bruno_caron]: oh

82
00:03:05,602 –> 00:03:08,467
[fraser_stark]: product that fits along it annuities as
part of

83
00:03:08,882 –> 00:03:09,188
[bruno_caron]: oh

84
00:03:08,907 –> 00:03:11,251
[fraser_stark]: the possible offering for someone in retirement

85
00:03:11,282 –> 00:03:11,566
[bruno_caron]: yah

86
00:03:11,331 –> 00:03:12,433
[fraser_stark]: looking to solve

87
00:03:12,242 –> 00:03:12,892
[bruno_caron]: oh

88
00:03:12,493 –> 00:03:16,821
[fraser_stark]: that nastiest hardest problem in finance which
is how do you decumulate assets when there’s

89
00:03:16,861 –> 00:03:19,144
[fraser_stark]: so much uncertainty including most notable

90
00:03:18,872 –> 00:03:19,014
[bruno_caron]: yah

91
00:03:19,245 –> 00:03:19,926
[fraser_stark]: that idea that

92
00:03:20,010 –> 00:03:20,072
[bruno_caron]: ah

93
00:03:20,166 –> 00:03:23,271
[fraser_stark]: there’s a huge range of possibilities for
how long you need the assets to last

94
00:03:23,331 –> 00:03:27,659
[fraser_stark]: for now the way we did that
as an asset manager is we we looked

95
00:03:27,699 –> 00:03:30,363
[fraser_stark]: at the mutual fund structure in canada
it’s a little bit different than the u

96
00:03:30,563 –> 00:03:34,276
[fraser_stark]: s but by and law it’s quite
similar and we said how would you have

97
00:03:34,316 –> 00:03:38,707
[fraser_stark]: to tweak a mutual fund to imbed
longevity risk pulling into this structure and that’s

98
00:03:38,747 –> 00:03:41,153
[fraser_stark]: exactly what we did in launch last
june

99
00:03:42,182 –> 00:03:44,748
[paul_tyler]: so you’re not an insurance company correct

100
00:03:44,546 –> 00:03:45,552
[fraser_stark]: correct that’s important

101
00:03:46,371 –> 00:03:47,392
[paul_tyler]: okay but you’re

102
00:03:47,222 –> 00:03:47,626
[bruno_caron]: yah

103
00:03:47,432 –> 00:03:48,374
[paul_tyler]: pulling mortality

104
00:03:48,150 –> 00:03:48,312
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

105
00:03:49,616 –> 00:03:54,564
[paul_tyler]: and what is different again we have
a lot of listeners in the us what’s

106
00:03:54,624 –> 00:03:57,489
[paul_tyler]: the difference between what you’re doing and
say oh i’ve heard it before paul is

107
00:03:57,629 –> 00:03:58,315
[paul_tyler]: tar date fund

108
00:03:59,735 –> 00:04:03,662
[fraser_stark]: yeah of course know a target they
fund is a great product for mixing

109
00:04:03,428 –> 00:04:04,088
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

110
00:04:03,722 –> 00:04:08,249
[fraser_stark]: the risk and return profile of an
investor as they move through different

111
00:04:08,222 –> 00:04:09,182
[bruno_caron]: oh

112
00:04:08,289 –> 00:04:14,580
[fraser_stark]: life stages towards retirement and so target
date fund serve that purpose very effectively what

113
00:04:14,600 –> 00:04:18,807
[fraser_stark]: they don’t do though is once someone
enters retirement they don’t provide risk pooling that

114
00:04:18,907 –> 00:04:22,593
[fraser_stark]: idea that you know we like to
say our assets are worth more to us

115
00:04:22,633 –> 00:04:25,657
[fraser_stark]: than a portion of our that’s are
worth more to us while while we’re alive

116
00:04:25,717 –> 00:04:30,102
[fraser_stark]: than after we passed away and so
what or what our product inherently does it

117
00:04:30,142 –> 00:04:35,579
[fraser_stark]: creates a trade off for people between
the estate for whatever assets are put into

118
00:04:35,619 –> 00:04:41,116
[fraser_stark]: this fund and optimizing for sustainable income
while you’re alive so a target day fund

119
00:04:41,156 –> 00:04:44,702
[fraser_stark]: is a great product and in fact
i think an investor might very well use

120
00:04:44,742 –> 00:04:49,370
[fraser_stark]: target date funds and then at retirement
put money into the longevity pension fund to

121
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[fraser_stark]: secure against that risk that

122
00:04:51,158 –> 00:04:51,938
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

123
00:04:51,293 –> 00:04:54,838
[fraser_stark]: they end up being someone who lives
to be a hundred and four or ninety

124
00:04:54,898 –> 00:05:01,961
[fraser_stark]: six or a hundred and ten we
just don’t know and effectively investors retires investing

125
00:05:01,530 –> 00:05:01,550
[paul_tyler]: m

126
00:05:02,061 –> 00:05:06,149
[fraser_stark]: who hold to balance portfolio almost no
matter what the construction

127
00:05:06,092 –> 00:05:06,333
[bruno_caron]: yeah

128
00:05:06,230 –> 00:05:12,199
[fraser_stark]: is in some ways they’re self insured
against their own longevity risk that idea living

129
00:05:12,260 –> 00:05:13,762
[fraser_stark]: a long life and we’ve given them
away

130
00:05:13,748 –> 00:05:14,438
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

131
00:05:14,323 –> 00:05:18,470
[fraser_stark]: to you know effectively get a type
of pension you know it’s not a registered

132
00:05:18,510 –> 00:05:23,258
[fraser_stark]: pension in canada but we use word
pension and the title because it is that

133
00:05:23,318 –> 00:05:27,625
[fraser_stark]: income for life and all of our
actuarial modeling shows that while it’s very blind

134
00:05:27,665 –> 00:05:32,734
[fraser_stark]: can go up or down with market
conditions and the experienced mortality of the investor

135
00:05:32,774 –> 00:05:37,221
[fraser_stark]: pool it will always pay and come
for life and so people can rest assured

136
00:05:37,281 –> 00:05:42,811
[fraser_stark]: that they’re spending more now more income
from this the application to this fund and

137
00:05:42,871 –> 00:05:46,437
[fraser_stark]: yet there’s no chance that it runs
out of money which is a real possibility

138
00:05:46,497 –> 00:05:51,807
[fraser_stark]: of someone you know starts with a
million dollars and spends you know seventy thousand

139
00:05:51,867 –> 00:05:52,208
[fraser_stark]: dollars

140
00:05:52,170 –> 00:05:52,830
[paul_tyler]: oh

141
00:05:52,269 –> 00:05:55,020
[fraser_stark]: a year there’s a chance that if
you live into your nineties or past a

142
00:05:55,060 –> 00:05:55,843
[fraser_stark]: hundred you could run it

143
00:05:58,756 –> 00:05:58,777
[paul_tyler]: a

144
00:05:59,073 –> 00:06:04,101
[bruno_caron]: that’s great can you talk a little
bit about that that structure how is it

145
00:06:04,221 –> 00:06:08,809
[bruno_caron]: how does it work when you know
discuss maybe a few a few scenarios a

146
00:06:08,869 –> 00:06:09,510
[bruno_caron]: few triggers

147
00:06:10,245 –> 00:06:10,367
[fraser_stark]: yeah

148
00:06:11,153 –> 00:06:15,720
[bruno_caron]: if i put in as i said
you know some you know some funds we

149
00:06:15,760 –> 00:06:20,007
[bruno_caron]: all agree that you know it’s not
there’s no one size fits all solution but

150
00:06:20,849 –> 00:06:28,737
[bruno_caron]: part of any any retires funds say
a hundred thousand dollars at age sixty five

151
00:06:29,478 –> 00:06:32,400
[bruno_caron]: what happens under various know scenarios

152
00:06:33,215 –> 00:06:34,056
[fraser_stark]: ah so

153
00:06:34,050 –> 00:06:34,376
[paul_tyler]: yea

154
00:06:34,377 –> 00:06:40,046
[fraser_stark]: essentially the key difference between this fund
most other income funds or or balanced funds

155
00:06:40,527 –> 00:06:44,614
[fraser_stark]: is that it’s redeemed not for its
nave but rather for the last year of

156
00:06:44,674 –> 00:06:49,161
[fraser_stark]: it now or unpaid capital so unpaid
capital is the amount put in at sixty

157
00:06:49,241 –> 00:06:51,145
[fraser_stark]: five lasts the distributions

158
00:06:50,747 –> 00:06:50,768
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

159
00:06:51,205 –> 00:06:55,712
[fraser_stark]: received today and so you know an
investor who puts in a hundred thousand dollars

160
00:06:55,912 –> 00:07:00,249
[fraser_stark]: as you said bruno and then let’s
say over three years they received twenty thousand

161
00:07:00,289 –> 00:07:00,509
[fraser_stark]: back

162
00:07:00,662 –> 00:07:01,532
[bruno_caron]: oh

163
00:07:01,310 –> 00:07:04,496
[fraser_stark]: and then if they either passed away
or voluntarily just say i’d like to redeem

164
00:07:04,536 –> 00:07:07,861
[fraser_stark]: these units and that’s a key to
that key benefit to this fund is the

165
00:07:07,901 –> 00:07:10,005
[fraser_stark]: redeemability they would get back eighty

166
00:07:09,998 –> 00:07:10,303
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

167
00:07:10,065 –> 00:07:14,693
[fraser_stark]: thousand dollars right not let’s just say
the nave had gone from a hundred thousand

168
00:07:14,753 –> 00:07:18,479
[fraser_stark]: and because it’s paying out income the
nave is now at ninety three they wouldn’t

169
00:07:18,519 –> 00:07:22,265
[fraser_stark]: get ninety three they get eighty and
the thirteen thousand difference between it three and

170
00:07:22,305 –> 00:07:27,614
[fraser_stark]: eighty that’s the longevity credits that flow
in and stay in for the benefit of

171
00:07:27,654 –> 00:07:32,663
[fraser_stark]: the remaining members of their cohort and
we we construct our cohorts on three birth

172
00:07:32,703 –> 00:07:34,145
[fraser_stark]: years so our oldest cohort

173
00:07:34,110 –> 00:07:34,337
[paul_tyler]: oh

174
00:07:34,305 –> 00:07:38,332
[fraser_stark]: that we have investors from is nineteen
forty five to forty seven in cohort one

175
00:07:38,893 –> 00:07:43,300
[fraser_stark]: court two is nineteen forty eight to
fifty and so on through people that are

176
00:07:43,340 –> 00:07:48,066
[fraser_stark]: sixty five today who i believe are
born in nineteen fifty seven and every three

177
00:07:48,106 –> 00:07:52,053
[fraser_stark]: years we add a new cohort as
people in another block of three birth years

178
00:07:52,493 –> 00:07:53,034
[fraser_stark]: start turning

179
00:07:52,868 –> 00:07:53,111
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

180
00:07:53,355 –> 00:07:57,642
[fraser_stark]: sixty five but that’s the that’s the
risk pulling right so unlike an annuity which

181
00:07:57,742 –> 00:08:01,408
[fraser_stark]: sits on an insurance company’s balance heat
and they basically say we’ll take we’ll take

182
00:08:01,448 –> 00:08:07,318
[fraser_stark]: this risk we’ll take your personal longevity
risk and we’ll take the market risk and

183
00:08:07,378 –> 00:08:12,626
[fraser_stark]: we’ll guarantee you and there’s obviously a
huge variety of annuity structures can’t address them

184
00:08:12,666 –> 00:08:16,951
[fraser_stark]: all today but under that structure the
insurance company is accepting both market risk and

185
00:08:17,011 –> 00:08:22,528
[fraser_stark]: longevity risk with the longevity pension fund
we as an asset manager are taking on

186
00:08:22,568 –> 00:08:27,356
[fraser_stark]: neither what’s happening is the longevity risk
of being pooled among the people the investors

187
00:08:27,436 –> 00:08:30,882
[fraser_stark]: in the pool based on that that
birth year set and the market risk stays

188
00:08:30,922 –> 00:08:38,214
[fraser_stark]: with them we’ve got portfolio construction that’s
very conservative designed suitable for someone in retirement

189
00:08:38,435 –> 00:08:41,820
[fraser_stark]: but the market risk stays with them
which means it’s variable it also means they

190
00:08:41,860 –> 00:08:46,187
[fraser_stark]: benefit from the market risk premium just
the fact market returns are expected to be

191
00:08:46,207 –> 00:08:51,917
[fraser_stark]: higher than the risk free interest rates
as i said they pull that mortality risk

192
00:08:52,338 –> 00:08:52,438
[fraser_stark]: so

193
00:08:52,782 –> 00:08:52,926
[paul_tyler]: yeah

194
00:08:52,798 –> 00:08:56,968
[fraser_stark]: it’s a great product for someone who
says i’m comfortable with some very ability in

195
00:08:57,008 –> 00:09:03,879
[fraser_stark]: my payments in return for more flexibility
a higher starting rate and the expectation and

196
00:09:03,939 –> 00:09:09,043
[fraser_stark]: design that this should rise over time
so we’ve done a ton of modeling we

197
00:09:09,123 –> 00:09:13,950
[fraser_stark]: work with life works actuarial team on
the modeling and under a wide range of

198
00:09:14,010 –> 00:09:17,336
[fraser_stark]: economic scenarios you can see that in
most cases but not all cases and that’s

199
00:09:17,396 –> 00:09:21,022
[fraser_stark]: important this fund raises its distributions over
time but

200
00:09:21,270 –> 00:09:21,990
[paul_tyler]: yeah

201
00:09:21,403 –> 00:09:25,590
[fraser_stark]: you know an investor in some of
the downside scenarios an investor who’s in a

202
00:09:25,650 –> 00:09:28,995
[fraser_stark]: traditional balance portfolio they’re going to see
that portfolio decline as well

203
00:09:29,010 –> 00:09:29,173
[paul_tyler]: ye

204
00:09:29,055 –> 00:09:33,202
[fraser_stark]: and they’re prbably gonna have to make
some spending reductions and a very similar thing

205
00:09:33,603 –> 00:09:33,983
[fraser_stark]: is likely

206
00:09:33,902 –> 00:09:34,163
[bruno_caron]: oh

207
00:09:34,024 –> 00:09:36,953
[fraser_stark]: to happen with our after in in
a downside economic scenario

208
00:09:38,341 –> 00:09:42,307
[paul_tyler]: i found the cohort concept really interesting
i read the the footnotes

209
00:09:42,325 –> 00:09:44,185
[fraser_stark]: oh

210
00:09:43,409 –> 00:09:43,549
[paul_tyler]: you’re

211
00:09:43,442 –> 00:09:43,524
[bruno_caron]: ye

212
00:09:43,569 –> 00:09:44,010
[paul_tyler]: marketing for

213
00:09:43,919 –> 00:09:44,040
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: eh

214
00:09:44,070 –> 00:09:45,893
[paul_tyler]: sure you know ts laughing

215
00:09:45,911 –> 00:09:45,932
[bruno_caron]: m

216
00:09:45,973 –> 00:09:49,639
[paul_tyler]: because this is what we live for
the foot notes in these products

217
00:09:49,622 –> 00:09:49,642
[bruno_caron]: m

218
00:09:50,094 –> 00:09:50,235
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

219
00:09:50,200 –> 00:09:50,341
[paul_tyler]: um

220
00:09:50,704 –> 00:09:50,725
[fraser_stark]: m

221
00:09:50,901 –> 00:09:51,022
[paul_tyler]: so

222
00:09:51,521 –> 00:09:51,712
[bruno_caron]: h m

223
00:09:51,723 –> 00:09:53,145
[paul_tyler]: you know i’m born between

224
00:09:52,991 –> 00:09:53,012
[bruno_caron]: m

225
00:09:53,546 –> 00:09:56,110
[paul_tyler]: you know this year and that year
um

226
00:09:56,111 –> 00:09:56,132
[bruno_caron]: m

227
00:09:56,491 –> 00:10:01,962
[paul_tyler]: but it’s now twenty twenty seven is
there any point at which i can and

228
00:10:02,772 –> 00:10:03,622
[paul_tyler]: join that cohort

229
00:10:05,596 –> 00:10:09,823
[fraser_stark]: any investor is eligible to invest in
the fund until their eightieth birthday the day

230
00:10:09,863 –> 00:10:10,143
[fraser_stark]: you turn

231
00:10:10,141 –> 00:10:10,366
[paul_tyler]: okay

232
00:10:10,223 –> 00:10:15,773
[fraser_stark]: at you’re no longer eligible and that’s
because of the evolving nature of the longevity

233
00:10:16,113 –> 00:10:21,923
[fraser_stark]: expectations and visibility into it we didn’t
want a situation where someone could join a

234
00:10:21,983 –> 00:10:25,950
[fraser_stark]: cohort at ninety one knowing that they’re
in good health many of the people that

235
00:10:26,390 –> 00:10:26,871
[fraser_stark]: committed to

236
00:10:26,902 –> 00:10:27,084
[paul_tyler]: yeah

237
00:10:26,931 –> 00:10:31,439
[fraser_stark]: that cohort much earlier perhaps are now
in in different states of health and life

238
00:10:31,479 –> 00:10:38,090
[fraser_stark]: expectancy so anyone up to the day
before they turn eighty is eligible you know

239
00:10:38,150 –> 00:10:43,839
[fraser_stark]: most people are investing much earlier in
there late sixties we also have an accumulation

240
00:10:43,940 –> 00:10:47,265
[fraser_stark]: class of this fund so until some
one sixty five they can invest in the

241
00:10:47,305 –> 00:10:52,013
[fraser_stark]: fund the risk pooling doesn’t yet apply
so it is redeemable at nave making it

242
00:10:52,073 –> 00:10:56,943
[fraser_stark]: behave much more a traditional balance fund
it doesn’t pay income it’s going to grow

243
00:10:57,003 –> 00:10:59,288
[fraser_stark]: the assets with market returns but

244
00:10:59,301 –> 00:10:59,361
[paul_tyler]: so

245
00:10:59,729 –> 00:11:00,110
[fraser_stark]: people are

246
00:11:00,166 –> 00:11:00,307
[paul_tyler]: yeah

247
00:11:00,732 –> 00:11:01,293
[fraser_stark]: sorry ill go ahead

248
00:11:01,601 –> 00:11:05,127
[paul_tyler]: oh no i’m just curious so so
it’s these are almost like bottles

249
00:11:05,162 –> 00:11:05,383
[bruno_caron]: oh

250
00:11:05,187 –> 00:11:06,629
[paul_tyler]: of wine you’re collecting

251
00:11:06,505 –> 00:11:06,928
[fraser_stark]: uh

252
00:11:06,850 –> 00:11:07,030
[paul_tyler]: right

253
00:11:06,932 –> 00:11:08,942
[bruno_caron]: uh

254
00:11:06,982 –> 00:11:07,598
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

255
00:11:07,110 –> 00:11:07,410
[paul_tyler]: except you

256
00:11:07,554 –> 00:11:07,615
[fraser_stark]: uh

257
00:11:07,711 –> 00:11:09,474
[paul_tyler]: you’re the flask

258
00:11:09,153 –> 00:11:09,356
[bruno_caron]: okay

259
00:11:09,497 –> 00:11:09,538
[fraser_stark]: we

260
00:11:09,574 –> 00:11:09,654
[paul_tyler]: is

261
00:11:09,638 –> 00:11:09,719
[fraser_stark]: get

262
00:11:09,734 –> 00:11:09,935
[paul_tyler]: not

263
00:11:09,779 –> 00:11:10,947
[fraser_stark]: better as we age that’s right

264
00:11:11,197 –> 00:11:11,317
[paul_tyler]: yeah

265
00:11:11,273 –> 00:11:11,313
[bruno_caron]: m

266
00:11:11,357 –> 00:11:15,464
[paul_tyler]: the vetaras we age but is there
so much transparency

267
00:11:15,071 –> 00:11:15,092
[bruno_caron]: m

268
00:11:15,544 –> 00:11:19,350
[paul_tyler]: that i could if i m going
into that fun i could say go my

269
00:11:19,451 –> 00:11:23,798
[paul_tyler]: group fraser got a lot of sick
people this is a good deal i’m healthy

270
00:11:24,098 –> 00:11:25,461
[paul_tyler]: i run marathon and

271
00:11:25,495 –> 00:11:25,740
[fraser_stark]: uh

272
00:11:25,622 –> 00:11:25,824
[bruno_caron]: oh

273
00:11:25,904 –> 00:11:26,395
[fraser_stark]: huh

274
00:11:26,823 –> 00:11:31,370
[paul_tyler]: i think i’m gonna outlast the that
that group are is that something you can

275
00:11:31,971 –> 00:11:36,459
[paul_tyler]: you know policy holders are wrong terminology
of investors will investors

276
00:11:36,435 –> 00:11:36,557
[fraser_stark]: yeah

277
00:11:36,499 –> 00:11:37,183
[paul_tyler]: be able to do that

278
00:11:38,625 –> 00:11:41,730
[fraser_stark]: well they won’t know who the other
people in the pool are and that’s important

279
00:11:41,831 –> 00:11:47,821
[fraser_stark]: for privacy reasons you know if you
think of the tontine structure much much maligned

280
00:11:49,383 –> 00:11:52,769
[fraser_stark]: there’s this idea i think the simpsons
popularized this a number of years ago this

281
00:11:52,829 –> 00:11:54,692
[fraser_stark]: idea of incentive to

282
00:11:54,662 –> 00:11:54,884
[bruno_caron]: yeah

283
00:11:54,772 –> 00:11:56,275
[fraser_stark]: take out your fellow members

284
00:11:56,237 –> 00:11:56,258
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

285
00:11:56,335 –> 00:12:00,181
[fraser_stark]: and i mean that’s that sort of
a comical approach but but for obvious reasons

286
00:12:00,212 –> 00:12:00,232
[bruno_caron]: m

287
00:12:00,482 –> 00:12:05,370
[fraser_stark]: the investors in the fund are not
publicly that’s not public to two investors you

288
00:12:05,590 –> 00:12:10,458
[fraser_stark]: asked about transparency we are fully transparent
with how the portfolio is invested how many

289
00:12:10,719 –> 00:12:17,470
[fraser_stark]: investors are in someone’s cohort you know
we track and annually issue a report you

290
00:12:17,510 –> 00:12:17,851
[fraser_stark]: know we’re not

291
00:12:17,798 –> 00:12:18,104
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

292
00:12:17,911 –> 00:12:21,457
[fraser_stark]: required to as a mutual fund but
we want to take on as much of

293
00:12:22,158 –> 00:12:25,864
[fraser_stark]: the apparatus of a pension as possible
and so we’re about to publish an annual

294
00:12:25,924 –> 00:12:31,033
[fraser_stark]: report well give the unit holders the
investors a great deal of information but what’s

295
00:12:31,073 –> 00:12:35,620
[fraser_stark]: going on paul i think what you’re
asking about though is this idea of adverse

296
00:12:35,660 –> 00:12:41,007
[fraser_stark]: selection or selection bias which is a
really interest ing concept here any time you’ve

297
00:12:41,047 –> 00:12:45,291
[fraser_stark]: got a group of people that are
opting into something they may behave somewhat differently

298
00:12:45,791 –> 00:12:49,995
[fraser_stark]: than a group of people that were
selected at random and so there’s a couple

299
00:12:50,056 –> 00:12:54,042
[fraser_stark]: of ways that can that can play
out one is is it only the joggers

300
00:12:54,683 –> 00:12:55,164
[fraser_stark]: so to speak

301
00:12:55,058 –> 00:12:55,281
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

302
00:12:55,244 –> 00:12:55,885
[fraser_stark]: who who joined

303
00:12:55,704 –> 00:12:56,190
[paul_tyler]: right

304
00:12:55,925 –> 00:12:56,787
[fraser_stark]: this or people who know

305
00:12:56,670 –> 00:12:56,992
[paul_tyler]: oh

306
00:12:56,867 –> 00:12:57,568
[fraser_stark]: that their parents

307
00:12:57,338 –> 00:12:58,568
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

308
00:12:58,750 –> 00:12:59,251
[fraser_stark]: both lived

309
00:12:59,643 –> 00:12:59,663
[bruno_caron]: m

310
00:13:00,212 –> 00:13:01,435
[fraser_stark]: well into their nineties for exampl

311
00:13:01,650 –> 00:13:01,972
[paul_tyler]: oh

312
00:13:02,035 –> 00:13:05,099
[fraser_stark]: um that’s one type of selection bias
we are assuming we’ll see some degree of

313
00:13:05,139 –> 00:13:11,446
[fraser_stark]: that we’ve done a lot of research
into the degree to which people people’s perceptions

314
00:13:11,527 –> 00:13:15,954
[fraser_stark]: of their own longevity aligned to what
actually plays out and the answer is it’s

315
00:13:16,034 –> 00:13:21,784
[fraser_stark]: neither it’s neither perfectly true nor perfectly
false it falls in between that people have

316
00:13:21,864 –> 00:13:27,854
[fraser_stark]: some of of a sense another type
of adverse selection you know for people that

317
00:13:27,894 –> 00:13:32,381
[fraser_stark]: want to want to play money ball
here with the fund is around birth years

318
00:13:32,682 –> 00:13:33,563
[fraser_stark]: right and so someone

319
00:13:33,580 –> 00:13:33,764
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kick

320
00:13:33,603 –> 00:13:40,071
[fraser_stark]: who was born in december nineteen forty
seven is a year and a half younger

321
00:13:40,112 –> 00:13:44,439
[fraser_stark]: than the average and three years younger
than someone that was joran born on january

322
00:13:44,519 –> 00:13:49,168
[fraser_stark]: first nineteen forty five and so that’s
something we are able to watch for early

323
00:13:49,288 –> 00:13:54,701
[fraser_stark]: and we’re not yet seeing any clustering
of investors by birth year we suspected we

324
00:13:54,842 –> 00:13:58,749
[fraser_stark]: might see people skewing to the younger
side it’s not the average

325
00:13:58,538 –> 00:13:58,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

326
00:13:59,069 –> 00:14:03,717
[fraser_stark]: of our investors falls squarely on that
mid point of the cohorts birth range so

327
00:14:04,518 –> 00:14:09,035
[fraser_stark]: it will be a long time for
this fun before we have visibility in is

328
00:14:09,095 –> 00:14:14,332
[fraser_stark]: there adverse selection happening on that health
or longevity we’ve assumed there will be some

329
00:14:14,412 –> 00:14:19,200
[fraser_stark]: it’s modeled in and we’ve also done
a lot of pressure testing of our model

330
00:14:19,260 –> 00:14:22,946
[fraser_stark]: to say what if we’re off by
a year whatever by two years whatever were

331
00:14:22,986 –> 00:14:23,948
[fraser_stark]: off by four years

332
00:14:24,188 –> 00:14:24,430
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

333
00:14:24,429 –> 00:14:32,121
[fraser_stark]: an a four year extension of mortality
on a group of thousands of retired investors

334
00:14:32,362 –> 00:14:36,333
[fraser_stark]: is you know that is a real
test and what it shows is the fund

335
00:14:36,608 –> 00:14:37,328
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

336
00:14:36,835 –> 00:14:42,369
[fraser_stark]: still accomplishes its goal it’s still pays
income for life it still rises but of

337
00:14:42,430 –> 00:14:48,059
[fraser_stark]: course by definition it would rise less
steeply in the scenario where they live longer

338
00:14:48,099 –> 00:14:50,884
[fraser_stark]: and that’s just because there’s more payments
to make through the life of the fund

339
00:14:52,912 –> 00:14:59,203
[bruno_caron]: that’s a that’s a very interesting um
segu to you the strategy of the structure

340
00:14:59,764 –> 00:15:04,231
[bruno_caron]: i mean i think it starts at
a fairly low level as you mention the

341
00:15:04,592 –> 00:15:11,624
[bruno_caron]: mortality and the investment risk is on
the the participants shoulders but at the same

342
00:15:11,684 –> 00:15:17,333
[bruno_caron]: time you do you do structure it
in a way that payments go up over

343
00:15:17,413 –> 00:15:22,462
[bruno_caron]: time you could have structure in in
a different way can you talk a little

344
00:15:22,502 –> 00:15:25,647
[bruno_caron]: bit about that that strategy and the
mentality behind

345
00:15:25,440 –> 00:15:25,705
[paul_tyler]: oh

346
00:15:25,747 –> 00:15:29,041
[bruno_caron]: that that that structure yeah

347
00:15:28,865 –> 00:15:33,894
[fraser_stark]: yeah we really wanted to be able
to tell investors that while it’s variable and

348
00:15:33,954 –> 00:15:38,702
[fraser_stark]: it’s important that investors know that right
to education is a key element here to

349
00:15:38,862 –> 00:15:39,223
[fraser_stark]: selling

350
00:15:39,000 –> 00:15:39,262
[paul_tyler]: oh

351
00:15:39,643 –> 00:15:44,431
[fraser_stark]: and marketing this and responsibly um but
we wanted it to rise over time and

352
00:15:44,692 –> 00:15:49,901
[fraser_stark]: what we’ve created is a fun that
in our modeled scenarios i believe the average

353
00:15:49,941 –> 00:15:53,126
[fraser_stark]: is about five or five and a
half percent market return with with a lot

354
00:15:53,206 –> 00:15:59,236
[fraser_stark]: of annual deviation from that and in
the average scenario of these two thousand that

355
00:15:59,276 –> 00:16:05,026
[fraser_stark]: we’ve that we’ve modeled the fund increases
its distributions on a its two per cent

356
00:16:05,086 –> 00:16:09,533
[fraser_stark]: a year which right now doesn’t sound
a lot like inflation levels but if we

357
00:16:09,512 –> 00:16:09,754
[bruno_caron]: uh

358
00:16:09,613 –> 00:16:10,575
[fraser_stark]: rewind six months

359
00:16:10,421 –> 00:16:10,442
[bruno_caron]: h

360
00:16:10,615 –> 00:16:14,041
[fraser_stark]: and think about long term targets at
central banks at what it means is this

361
00:16:14,121 –> 00:16:14,341
[fraser_stark]: fund

362
00:16:14,160 –> 00:16:14,262
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

363
00:16:14,421 –> 00:16:19,310
[fraser_stark]: is designed to keep its payment approximately
with long term targets is not index the

364
00:16:19,350 –> 00:16:23,717
[fraser_stark]: way you can you can formally and
firmly index and annuity but it is it

365
00:16:23,777 –> 00:16:26,121
[fraser_stark]: is designed to raise payments with

366
00:16:26,080 –> 00:16:26,181
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

367
00:16:26,181 –> 00:16:31,830
[fraser_stark]: that with inflation um and with market
returns over time you know when we set

368
00:16:31,931 –> 00:16:36,338
[fraser_stark]: the initial distribution level for the fund
so the retirement age cohort started at six

369
00:16:36,438 –> 00:16:41,867
[fraser_stark]: point one five percent cohort for people
born nineteen fifty four to fifty six when

370
00:16:41,907 –> 00:16:43,709
[fraser_stark]: we launched was people about sixty

371
00:16:43,652 –> 00:16:43,672
[bruno_caron]: m

372
00:16:43,749 –> 00:16:44,931
[fraser_stark]: five to sixty seven years old

373
00:16:44,972 –> 00:16:45,194
[bruno_caron]: oh

374
00:16:45,171 –> 00:16:49,116
[fraser_stark]: we started that at six point one
five per cent now one of the decisions

375
00:16:49,357 –> 00:16:52,923
[fraser_stark]: we had to make at launch was
do we start with a number like that

376
00:16:52,963 –> 00:16:54,625
[fraser_stark]: that’s lower and expected to rise

377
00:16:54,968 –> 00:16:55,112
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

378
00:16:55,427 –> 00:16:59,193
[fraser_stark]: and be transparent about that in the
funds perspective or do we start with a

379
00:16:59,213 –> 00:17:04,000
[fraser_stark]: number that’s higher it sort of has
an equal chance of increasing or decreasing as

380
00:17:04,040 –> 00:17:10,410
[fraser_stark]: the fun moves forward and we deliberately
chose former to start lower what that meant

381
00:17:10,550 –> 00:17:14,096
[fraser_stark]: is that when we think about this
like a like a defined benefit pension and

382
00:17:14,136 –> 00:17:19,165
[fraser_stark]: we think about the funding level the
fund started with approximately twenty percent over funding

383
00:17:19,625 –> 00:17:23,211
[fraser_stark]: so it was in a twenty percent
over funded position if you compared you know

384
00:17:23,592 –> 00:17:26,937
[fraser_stark]: the assets in the fund with the
present value of all

385
00:17:26,903 –> 00:17:27,085
[bruno_caron]: yeah

386
00:17:26,978 –> 00:17:31,144
[fraser_stark]: future liabilities and you know it’s not
been the year that any of us in

387
00:17:31,545 –> 00:17:35,231
[fraser_stark]: in financial markets wanted to see but
i think it’s been a year that’s really

388
00:17:35,271 –> 00:17:40,340
[fraser_stark]: validated that strategy because going into twenty
twenty three were in the process with our

389
00:17:40,380 –> 00:17:44,106
[fraser_stark]: annual report of defining what are the
distribution rates and i think a lot of

390
00:17:44,146 –> 00:17:48,033
[fraser_stark]: people are expecting that that we may
have to cut those rates we said it

391
00:17:48,053 –> 00:17:51,679
[fraser_stark]: was a variable fund and in years
when markets don’t do well um you know

392
00:17:51,699 –> 00:17:54,503
[fraser_stark]: there will be a decrease because we
deliberately

393
00:17:54,518 –> 00:17:55,268
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

394
00:17:54,543 –> 00:17:59,632
[fraser_stark]: went in with that buffer we’ve used
a good deal of that buffer across the

395
00:18:00,013 –> 00:18:06,083
[fraser_stark]: the five cohorts differs by cohorts but
all cohorts are going to be holding their

396
00:18:06,123 –> 00:18:10,951
[fraser_stark]: distribution level steady which i think is
really powerful to an investor who who’s put

397
00:18:11,031 –> 00:18:15,178
[fraser_stark]: money into this fund knowing the goal
is to create certainty so they can spend

398
00:18:15,218 –> 00:18:19,765
[fraser_stark]: with confidence in retirement and even though
they acknowledge it’s not an annuity with guaranteed

399
00:18:19,845 –> 00:18:25,271
[fraser_stark]: floor and balance sheet of a of
a major corporation backing it it’s really powerful

400
00:18:25,311 –> 00:18:28,694
[fraser_stark]: that it’s been able to hold so
that’s some of our thinking around distribution levels

401
00:18:29,938 –> 00:18:33,744
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hey frinds are i going a jump
in and ask you how are you marketing

402
00:18:33,785 –> 00:18:37,891
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: this and selling this how are you
finding these cohorts are these members investors through

403
00:18:37,951 –> 00:18:41,217
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: agents direct online tell us a little
bit about the marketing

404
00:18:42,165 –> 00:18:45,410
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s a great question this is
an investment product

405
00:18:45,212 –> 00:18:45,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

406
00:18:45,490 –> 00:18:46,332
[fraser_stark]: and so it’s sold

407
00:18:46,562 –> 00:18:46,787
[bruno_caron]: oh

408
00:18:47,033 –> 00:18:48,836
[fraser_stark]: where people buy other mutual funds

409
00:18:49,472 –> 00:18:50,132
[bruno_caron]: yeah

410
00:18:49,519 –> 00:18:49,704
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

411
00:18:49,617 –> 00:18:51,761
[fraser_stark]: the accounts that they might use to
buy stocks r t

412
00:18:52,022 –> 00:18:52,622
[bruno_caron]: yeah

413
00:18:52,081 –> 00:18:55,169
[fraser_stark]: f so it’s sold through investment dealers
canada the funds available

414
00:18:54,842 –> 00:18:55,063
[bruno_caron]: oh

415
00:18:55,229 –> 00:19:00,351
[fraser_stark]: to any canadian um you know some
dealers have put this fund

416
00:19:00,242 –> 00:19:00,484
[bruno_caron]: oh

417
00:19:00,451 –> 00:19:03,916
[fraser_stark]: on their shelf and others haven’t you
know one of the surprises we’ve seen is

418
00:19:04,497 –> 00:19:10,047
[fraser_stark]: um you it’s been warmly accepted by
people who think a lot about retirement and

419
00:19:10,067 –> 00:19:12,851
[fraser_stark]: the challenges of it banks have taken
you so far

420
00:19:12,752 –> 00:19:13,016
[bruno_caron]: oh

421
00:19:12,992 –> 00:19:17,599
[fraser_stark]: one of two past banks and other
wealth dealers some have approved some have not

422
00:19:17,880 –> 00:19:22,067
[fraser_stark]: know it’s a pretty novel concept this
idea of a fund that doesn’t redeem a

423
00:19:22,107 –> 00:19:23,830
[fraser_stark]: nave which you know

424
00:19:24,311 –> 00:19:24,332
[bruno_caron]: m

425
00:19:24,451 –> 00:19:28,517
[fraser_stark]: my assets aren’t all mine you know
it’s an interesting concept so there’s some of

426
00:19:28,558 –> 00:19:34,027
[fraser_stark]: that you know the decisioning that goes
on around how much come to pay and

427
00:19:34,107 –> 00:19:39,095
[fraser_stark]: the the income policy that we’ve sat
working with life works um you know i

428
00:19:39,155 –> 00:19:41,740
[fraser_stark]: think that some some are still getting
their head around that

429
00:19:41,822 –> 00:19:42,482
[bruno_caron]: oh

430
00:19:42,240 –> 00:19:45,967
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve got we do direct marketing
to investors and so there is a direct

431
00:19:46,027 –> 00:19:47,890
[fraser_stark]: to investor marketing effort

432
00:19:47,717 –> 00:19:47,738
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

433
00:19:47,930 –> 00:19:48,911
[fraser_stark]: here where we’ve

434
00:19:48,891 –> 00:19:49,358
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

435
00:19:48,972 –> 00:19:54,741
[fraser_stark]: got digital adds t v radio raising
awareness for the product driving education a lot

436
00:19:54,781 –> 00:19:58,247
[fraser_stark]: of our investors are do it yourself
the man they’re buying this through an online

437
00:19:58,487 –> 00:19:59,709
[fraser_stark]: account it’s sold

438
00:19:59,558 –> 00:19:59,741
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

439
00:19:59,750 –> 00:20:03,396
[fraser_stark]: as a mutual fund it it’s not
available as an e t f and that’s

440
00:20:03,556 –> 00:20:08,424
[fraser_stark]: because it’s not designed to be traded
the way you can easily buy and sell

441
00:20:08,484 –> 00:20:12,290
[fraser_stark]: an it’s it’s more of a product
that though though an investment

442
00:20:12,317 –> 00:20:12,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

443
00:20:12,351 –> 00:20:15,876
[fraser_stark]: product is meant to be bought and
held for years even though you’ve got the

444
00:20:15,916 –> 00:20:21,167
[fraser_stark]: ability to redeem it days weeks months
later for our investors in the d umulation

445
00:20:21,227 –> 00:20:26,127
[fraser_stark]: class pill sixty five its it’s better
to not so it’s both through investors directly

446
00:20:26,327 –> 00:20:31,966
[fraser_stark]: it’s through their wealth advisors and we’re
seeing growing adoption by investment advisors in canada

447
00:20:32,566 –> 00:20:36,190
[fraser_stark]: and then finally it’s now available as
part of workplace programs you know so any

448
00:20:36,270 –> 00:20:42,536
[fraser_stark]: company that’s running a d c and
defined contribution pension plan where the employes at

449
00:20:42,576 –> 00:20:47,985
[fraser_stark]: retirement can can choose you know different
options life works has added this to their

450
00:20:48,046 –> 00:20:53,755
[fraser_stark]: platform on the platform side and consulting
side and so plan sponsors companies ing canada

451
00:20:53,815 –> 00:20:58,603
[fraser_stark]: that run their program through life works
are able to to turn this on and

452
00:20:58,643 –> 00:21:01,268
[fraser_stark]: so we’re now that that went live
last month and we’re now in

453
00:21:01,260 –> 00:21:01,466
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: okay

454
00:21:01,308 –> 00:21:05,655
[fraser_stark]: discussion with plan sponsors who know they
need to understand the fund of course and

455
00:21:05,715 –> 00:21:09,581
[fraser_stark]: what it can mean for their employes
but what a phenomenal way for a company

456
00:21:09,662 –> 00:21:14,169
[fraser_stark]: to show that they care about their
employes outcome even after they’re retired is not

457
00:21:14,229 –> 00:21:14,610
[fraser_stark]: just saying

458
00:21:14,591 –> 00:21:14,612
[bruno_caron]: m

459
00:21:14,650 –> 00:21:17,716
[fraser_stark]: hey you worked with us for twenty
five years you’ve saved up a lot money

460
00:21:17,856 –> 00:21:20,183
[fraser_stark]: you know here it is let us
know where you want to transfer it and

461
00:21:20,585 –> 00:21:23,093
[fraser_stark]: good block figuring out how much to
draw each year its

462
00:21:23,098 –> 00:21:23,240
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

463
00:21:24,175 –> 00:21:28,242
[fraser_stark]: you know you can stay in our
plan and you can have income for life

464
00:21:28,503 –> 00:21:28,843
[fraser_stark]: in a non

465
00:21:28,742 –> 00:21:28,843
[paul_tyler]: ah

466
00:21:28,883 –> 00:21:29,885
[fraser_stark]: guaranteed way way that’s

467
00:21:29,850 –> 00:21:30,660
[paul_tyler]: yeah

468
00:21:29,925 –> 00:21:33,050
[fraser_stark]: variable but what what that does that’s
so nice is

469
00:21:33,000 –> 00:21:33,304
[paul_tyler]: oh

470
00:21:33,110 –> 00:21:38,260
[fraser_stark]: it allows that income for life without
the financial infant share responsibility on the corporate

471
00:21:38,280 –> 00:21:43,069
[fraser_stark]: balance set which of course dvpensions have
put put on over the years and is

472
00:21:43,289 –> 00:21:45,313
[fraser_stark]: the main reason why most companies are
moving away

473
00:21:45,209 –> 00:21:45,411
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: is it

474
00:21:46,781 –> 00:21:47,302
[paul_tyler]: in phrase

475
00:21:47,038 –> 00:21:47,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you

476
00:21:47,402 –> 00:21:52,470
[paul_tyler]: you got a real interesting background and
because you just came from facebook you worked

477
00:21:52,791 –> 00:22:00,747
[paul_tyler]: with an influence of what lessons did
you learn there that you’re plying into this

478
00:22:00,767 –> 00:22:01,108
[paul_tyler]: space

479
00:22:02,435 –> 00:22:02,595
[fraser_stark]: yeah

480
00:22:02,469 –> 00:22:02,490
[paul_tyler]: m

481
00:22:03,276 –> 00:22:05,440
[fraser_stark]: you know the other part of my
career i started a bann

482
00:22:05,252 –> 00:22:05,374
[bruno_caron]: ye

483
00:22:05,520 –> 00:22:10,007
[fraser_stark]: company as a consultant and my clients
were retail banks in both canada and the

484
00:22:10,067 –> 00:22:12,511
[fraser_stark]: us wealth management

485
00:22:12,480 –> 00:22:13,920
[paul_tyler]: oh

486
00:22:12,551 –> 00:22:18,061
[fraser_stark]: firms as well as one of the
largest canadian pensions and so i’ve worked in

487
00:22:18,101 –> 00:22:21,607
[fraser_stark]: the d b pension side i’ve worked
so i do have a more financial background

488
00:22:22,588 –> 00:22:23,049
[fraser_stark]: after being

489
00:22:22,952 –> 00:22:23,173
[bruno_caron]: oh

490
00:22:23,089 –> 00:22:29,578
[fraser_stark]: though you know influitive and facebook both
tech companies and both really innovative and i

491
00:22:29,610 –> 00:22:30,270
[paul_tyler]: yeah

492
00:22:29,658 –> 00:22:34,402
[fraser_stark]: think that’s what’s what’s happening here is
i was drawn to this role to join

493
00:22:34,522 –> 00:22:37,576
[fraser_stark]: early twenty twenty one because

494
00:22:37,262 –> 00:22:37,544
[bruno_caron]: oh

495
00:22:37,676 –> 00:22:43,205
[fraser_stark]: it’s it’s important innovation and it’s not
going to be easy you know this is

496
00:22:43,326 –> 00:22:44,928
[fraser_stark]: this takes real change in mind

497
00:22:44,762 –> 00:22:45,106
[bruno_caron]: yeah

498
00:22:45,028 –> 00:22:51,018
[fraser_stark]: shift and we’ve got a product here
that solves a the important problem for retires

499
00:22:51,619 –> 00:22:56,628
[fraser_stark]: and yet it looks so different that
getting that getting the product design right and

500
00:22:56,668 –> 00:23:01,295
[fraser_stark]: thinking about it both in financial terms
as well as consumer terms and the you

501
00:23:01,336 –> 00:23:05,783
[fraser_stark]: know the real way that people make
decisions at the kitchen table you know talking

502
00:23:05,823 –> 00:23:10,190
[fraser_stark]: to their advisor talking to their spouse
talking to their kids you know all of

503
00:23:10,250 –> 00:23:15,499
[fraser_stark]: those things it makes it fascinating problem
to solve and it’s it’s been a ton

504
00:23:15,579 –> 00:23:19,045
[fraser_stark]: of fun so far and you know
we can’t wait to see where it goes

505
00:23:19,105 –> 00:23:21,509
[fraser_stark]: but this is what i do in
my career is i think on my linked

506
00:23:21,549 –> 00:23:23,372
[fraser_stark]: in i say i like solving

507
00:23:23,702 –> 00:23:23,926
[bruno_caron]: oh

508
00:23:24,174 –> 00:23:30,284
[fraser_stark]: really challenge problems with technology and you
know this is more financial engineering than you

509
00:23:30,304 –> 00:23:34,911
[fraser_stark]: know data base engineering but none the
less it’s it’s a really cool it’s a

510
00:23:34,932 –> 00:23:36,961
[fraser_stark]: really cool space and i’m loving here

511
00:23:39,312 –> 00:23:44,741
[bruno_caron]: no that there and then i mean
that’s going back to the point you mentioned

512
00:23:44,821 –> 00:23:50,831
[bruno_caron]: earlier on education and that that that
kitchen table sale can you dis some of

513
00:23:50,871 –> 00:23:55,078
[bruno_caron]: the some of the some of the
initiatives that you’ve you’ve had and what some

514
00:23:55,098 –> 00:24:01,128
[bruno_caron]: of the challenges that you’ve had in
terms of bringing the idea of the concept

515
00:24:01,268 –> 00:24:08,079
[bruno_caron]: forward people to individuals or to to
employes as you as you mentioned

516
00:24:08,876 –> 00:24:12,403
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know there are there are
a couple of challenges here you know one

517
00:24:12,523 –> 00:24:15,910
[fraser_stark]: thing is that i have found interesting
an i’s been a bit of a surprise

518
00:24:16,110 –> 00:24:20,212
[fraser_stark]: when you start talking about this fund
a lot of people you see their mental

519
00:24:20,293 –> 00:24:25,347
[fraser_stark]: wheels start turning and they say if
i put all my money into this you

520
00:24:25,387 –> 00:24:29,915
[fraser_stark]: know i’d have i’d be rather a
liquid and and they’re not wrong but we

521
00:24:29,995 –> 00:24:32,820
[fraser_stark]: sort of say well who said anything
about putting all your money into this i

522
00:24:32,880 –> 00:24:37,347
[fraser_stark]: mean that that sort of true of
of any product is it’s not right for

523
00:24:37,488 –> 00:24:42,997
[fraser_stark]: for everything you know so so that
education what i’m getting at there is sometimes

524
00:24:43,057 –> 00:24:49,089
[fraser_stark]: we bring in our preconceived notions on
on products and when you talk about a

525
00:24:49,129 –> 00:24:52,579
[fraser_stark]: product like this people jump to all
of it and we say absolutely not you

526
00:24:52,619 –> 00:24:56,007
[fraser_stark]: know this isn’t right for everyone and
even the people it’s right for it’s not

527
00:24:56,067 –> 00:24:59,032
[fraser_stark]: right for all of their assents one
thing we’re seeing is a lot of our

528
00:24:59,072 –> 00:25:04,161
[fraser_stark]: investors actually already have a d b
pension or they already have annuities in their

529
00:25:04,201 –> 00:25:09,730
[fraser_stark]: portfolio and what they’re doing is there
they’re compartmentalizing the income in retirement and saying

530
00:25:09,750 –> 00:25:12,935
[fraser_stark]: there’s a there’s a portion that’s absolute
base line you know in canada we have

531
00:25:13,216 –> 00:25:18,324
[fraser_stark]: we have pretty good government supports which
is which is great and some people buy

532
00:25:18,425 –> 00:25:24,955
[fraser_stark]: nuits to create more guaranteed income at
a fixed level this allows them to have

533
00:25:25,436 –> 00:25:29,382
[fraser_stark]: income for life at a variable level
and we show them that it will vary

534
00:25:29,463 –> 00:25:33,910
[fraser_stark]: but it shouldn’t dramatically because of the
way we manage it so that’s one thing

535
00:25:33,990 –> 00:25:39,762
[fraser_stark]: on the on the education side it’s
been really interesting the other is just because

536
00:25:39,822 –> 00:25:44,033
[fraser_stark]: this product looks and sounds like an
annuity in some ways a lot of people

537
00:25:45,350 –> 00:25:49,691
[fraser_stark]: you know we have people ask us
well well how can you say it’s guaranteed

538
00:25:50,132 –> 00:25:53,639
[fraser_stark]: and we say we didn’t say it
was guaranteed right we said it’s income for

539
00:25:53,719 –> 00:25:57,105
[fraser_stark]: life at a variable level and that’s
an that’s clear but they’re bringing in that

540
00:25:57,165 –> 00:26:00,530
[fraser_stark]: notion that because it’s ncome for life
and the only income for life people have

541
00:26:00,570 –> 00:26:04,797
[fraser_stark]: ever seen is a d b pensioner
an ane they’re they’re bringing that in as

542
00:26:04,837 –> 00:26:09,585
[fraser_stark]: well and the final example in that
sphere is that this is it ties to

543
00:26:09,645 –> 00:26:14,013
[fraser_stark]: a single person there’s no spousal component
to it that’s an innovation we could we

544
00:26:14,073 –> 00:26:18,718
[fraser_stark]: could do further there’s trade off to
it of course because a couple lives longer

545
00:26:18,778 –> 00:26:22,402
[fraser_stark]: than a person the distribution levels would
be lower and that could be the right

546
00:26:22,462 –> 00:26:28,319
[fraser_stark]: trade off but a lot of times
people say you know well my my spouse

547
00:26:28,379 –> 00:26:32,005
[fraser_stark]: and i you know both need income
and i want like they feel as though

548
00:26:32,045 –> 00:26:37,494
[fraser_stark]: the product is designed against their interests
by not being spousal and and we have

549
00:26:37,514 –> 00:26:41,281
[fraser_stark]: a nversation and point out and generally
we we get them there that well you

550
00:26:41,321 –> 00:26:45,628
[fraser_stark]: can buy some in each person’s name
and in fact that actually lets you create

551
00:26:46,810 –> 00:26:51,998
[fraser_stark]: a very effective income flow before and
after first member of a couple has passed

552
00:26:52,059 –> 00:26:57,648
[fraser_stark]: away you can actually engineer it really
brilliantly because again this this allocation let’s say

553
00:26:57,708 –> 00:27:02,095
[fraser_stark]: a couple with a million dollars who
put four hundred thousand into longevity two hundred

554
00:27:02,135 –> 00:27:08,165
[fraser_stark]: in each person’s name they’ve created a
very nicely aline stream of income to their

555
00:27:08,205 –> 00:27:13,756
[fraser_stark]: needs before and after the first member
passes away but these are what i’m in

556
00:27:13,877 –> 00:27:21,070
[fraser_stark]: out is that we carry a lot
of preconceived notions in i think financial education

557
00:27:21,151 –> 00:27:28,349
[fraser_stark]: among the general population varies from high
to quite low and it’s important for everyone

558
00:27:28,589 –> 00:27:33,154
[fraser_stark]: you know to think through these issues
so i think the same issues that that

559
00:27:33,715 –> 00:27:38,683
[fraser_stark]: an agent would would struggle with or
might struggle with explaining a more complex annuity

560
00:27:38,763 –> 00:27:42,710
[fraser_stark]: to a family i think some of
that exists here but people are really resonating

561
00:27:42,730 –> 00:27:47,690
[fraser_stark]: with this message of you still benefit
from market return have the confidence to spend

562
00:27:48,375 –> 00:27:52,241
[fraser_stark]: it’s still assets that you can think
of in your portfolio because they are there

563
00:27:52,381 –> 00:27:56,027
[fraser_stark]: for you and when you pass away
a portion is left in or after a

564
00:27:56,047 –> 00:27:59,733
[fraser_stark]: number of years it’s all left in
but those are some of the challenges bruno

565
00:27:59,814 –> 00:28:00,799
[fraser_stark]: that we’re facing

566
00:28:07,552 –> 00:28:12,780
[bruno_caron]: wonderful and i mean i know we
kind of touched on it a little bit

567
00:28:14,243 –> 00:28:18,470
[bruno_caron]: but you know you mentioned you know
some of those those preconceived ideas some of

568
00:28:18,510 –> 00:28:18,590
[bruno_caron]: the

569
00:28:19,675 –> 00:28:21,055
[fraser_stark]: yeah

570
00:28:19,892 –> 00:28:26,043
[bruno_caron]: the guarantees um any other parallel within
you know with

571
00:28:25,890 –> 00:28:26,610
[paul_tyler]: yeah

572
00:28:26,083 –> 00:28:33,094
[bruno_caron]: your comparable peers and i e annuities
in any any other differences you’d like to

573
00:28:33,615 –> 00:28:38,383
[bruno_caron]: highlight and maybe perhaps on the on
the investment side we didn’t discuss too much

574
00:28:38,543 –> 00:28:41,989
[bruno_caron]: but any anything in that in that
particular area

575
00:28:42,685 –> 00:28:47,773
[fraser_stark]: yeah yeah you know the investment side
is it’s our our c i o purpose

576
00:28:48,354 –> 00:28:54,685
[fraser_stark]: greg taylor who manages the portfolio with
no one but they’ve created a truly diversive

577
00:28:54,805 –> 00:28:57,389
[fraser_stark]: i m portfolio across geography

578
00:28:57,450 –> 00:28:59,580
[paul_tyler]: yeah

579
00:28:57,529 –> 00:29:01,596
[fraser_stark]: sect or strategy you know it’s a
mix a fixed income and equities we use

580
00:29:01,756 –> 00:29:08,247
[fraser_stark]: hedging overlaid to further reduce risk there’s
about nineteen percent out casion to alternatives which

581
00:29:08,307 –> 00:29:13,235
[fraser_stark]: we invest in through through liquid alternative
funds which gives access

582
00:29:13,800 –> 00:29:14,063
[paul_tyler]: yeah

583
00:29:14,317 –> 00:29:19,907
[fraser_stark]: to real estate to energy to precious
metals base metals et cetera that portion of

584
00:29:19,927 –> 00:29:22,431
[fraser_stark]: the portfolio has been really great this
year when we’ve

585
00:29:22,380 –> 00:29:23,280
[paul_tyler]: oh

586
00:29:22,471 –> 00:29:26,738
[fraser_stark]: been so challenged in markets with with
this inflationary environment the

587
00:29:26,820 –> 00:29:27,870
[paul_tyler]: oh

588
00:29:27,058 –> 00:29:32,949
[fraser_stark]: portfolio is targeting a return of only
around five percent you know it’s deliberately seeking

589
00:29:33,029 –> 00:29:37,197
[fraser_stark]: return with minimum volatility this isn’t about
ou know a lot of d b pensions

590
00:29:37,067 –> 00:29:37,150
[bruno_caron]: ah

591
00:29:37,277 –> 00:29:43,368
[fraser_stark]: actually strive for eight to nine percent
annually they almost need hit that in over

592
00:29:43,408 –> 00:29:48,136
[fraser_stark]: the long term in order to in
order to make their make all their payments

593
00:29:48,216 –> 00:29:52,964
[fraser_stark]: but we’ve we’ve set this up to
work on a on a low return basis

594
00:29:53,100 –> 00:29:53,443
[paul_tyler]: oh

595
00:29:53,765 –> 00:29:57,732
[fraser_stark]: that said it’s very different than an
annuity because there it’s an investment fund there’s

596
00:29:57,792 –> 00:30:01,739
[fraser_stark]: no capital reserve requirements where we’re able
to benefit from

597
00:30:01,770 –> 00:30:02,017
[paul_tyler]: oh

598
00:30:01,779 –> 00:30:07,207
[fraser_stark]: that market risk premium and i think
that i think that’s that’s really powerful and

599
00:30:07,267 –> 00:30:11,112
[fraser_stark]: as much as in these early days
there’s a lot of education with investors going

600
00:30:11,252 –> 00:30:11,673
[fraser_stark]: on that

601
00:30:11,708 –> 00:30:11,928
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

602
00:30:12,090 –> 00:30:12,930
[paul_tyler]: oh

603
00:30:13,855 –> 00:30:17,481
[fraser_stark]: you know sometimes it goes very well
sometimes the product

604
00:30:17,427 –> 00:30:17,588
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

605
00:30:17,562 –> 00:30:22,129
[fraser_stark]: is still too foreign to people and
that’s okay but i see this over the

606
00:30:22,169 –> 00:30:25,475
[fraser_stark]: long term getting to a place where
it’s much easier to explain than a the

607
00:30:25,555 –> 00:30:26,459
[fraser_stark]: annuity constructions

608
00:30:26,310 –> 00:30:27,000
[paul_tyler]: my

609
00:30:26,920 –> 00:30:30,132
[fraser_stark]: and the transparency is powerful when someone
passes away

610
00:30:31,220 –> 00:30:31,321
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ah

611
00:30:31,755 –> 00:30:33,238
[fraser_stark]: purpose investments does not

612
00:30:33,210 –> 00:30:33,840
[paul_tyler]: oh

613
00:30:33,318 –> 00:30:36,864
[fraser_stark]: benefit from that in any way if
you think about where those mortality credits go

614
00:30:36,924 –> 00:30:41,030
[fraser_stark]: it always flows to the pool you
know we receive a management fee as investment

615
00:30:41,051 –> 00:30:46,019
[fraser_stark]: managers do on every fund that’s taken
nelly is a percentage of the assets but

616
00:30:46,059 –> 00:30:52,770
[fraser_stark]: the residual left in the pool always
benefits the surviving investors and i think that’s

617
00:30:52,910 –> 00:30:55,314
[fraser_stark]: that’s really powerful people are funny about

618
00:30:55,157 –> 00:30:55,178
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

619
00:30:55,334 –> 00:30:59,802
[fraser_stark]: that concept of fairness right things that
don’t really seem to affect us we still

620
00:30:59,882 –> 00:31:03,909
[fraser_stark]: care about a lot and there’s a
there’s reams of psychological research into how important

621
00:31:03,989 –> 00:31:07,795
[fraser_stark]: fairness is and that’s one of the
elements that really resonates with invest when we

622
00:31:07,835 –> 00:31:10,720
[fraser_stark]: speak to them is that idea that
the

623
00:31:09,810 –> 00:31:10,620
[paul_tyler]: oh

624
00:31:10,820 –> 00:31:16,109
[fraser_stark]: corporation is not benefiting you know if
they if they passed away early you know

625
00:31:16,149 –> 00:31:20,478
[fraser_stark]: the other big tether huge difference from
an annuity is really around that idea i

626
00:31:20,538 –> 00:31:24,349
[fraser_stark]: touched on at the beginning that an
investor can choose to redeem this and i

627
00:31:24,389 –> 00:31:25,833
[fraser_stark]: think that’s that’s really powerful

628
00:31:26,610 –> 00:31:26,953
[paul_tyler]: oh

629
00:31:26,745 –> 00:31:30,431
[fraser_stark]: of course many annuities will either keep
paying or lump some out to the estate

630
00:31:30,511 –> 00:31:35,760
[fraser_stark]: of some one who passes away but
your your voluntary redeemability is typically quite low

631
00:31:36,040 –> 00:31:41,449
[fraser_stark]: depending on the structure with this fund
we never treated any differently whether you’ve passed

632
00:31:41,509 –> 00:31:45,256
[fraser_stark]: away or are simply asking you to
have your money back and i think that’s

633
00:31:45,276 –> 00:31:50,545
[fraser_stark]: really powerful it means no one ever
has an incentive to live or to die

634
00:31:50,685 –> 00:31:51,026
[fraser_stark]: if you think

635
00:31:51,041 –> 00:31:51,206
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

636
00:31:51,067 –> 00:31:54,943
[fraser_stark]: about it financially it’s it’s i think
that’s a powerful benefit

637
00:31:55,890 –> 00:31:58,474
[paul_tyler]: for sure i think we just lost
a brutal unfortunately

638
00:31:58,369 –> 00:31:58,670
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: but yeah

639
00:31:58,875 –> 00:31:58,995
[paul_tyler]: but

640
00:31:59,067 –> 00:31:59,293
[fraser_stark]: okay

641
00:31:59,236 –> 00:32:00,237
[paul_tyler]: tsa tis now

642
00:32:00,229 –> 00:32:00,249
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

643
00:32:00,257 –> 00:32:00,999
[paul_tyler]: you had a question

644
00:32:01,678 –> 00:32:04,423
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah i wanted to jump in so
i agree with you sort of that power

645
00:32:04,543 –> 00:32:12,135
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of fairness and choice but i wanted
to go back you in your background mentioned

646
00:32:12,656 –> 00:32:18,145
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you innovation and tech that thread throughout
the positions that you’ve held so i heard

647
00:32:18,185 –> 00:32:22,212
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk a little bit about technology
infused into the financial modeling but i was

648
00:32:22,312 –> 00:32:26,800
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: curious if there’s any tech or innovation
you could share and whether it’s you know

649
00:32:26,880 –> 00:32:31,428
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: user experience sort of what investors might
be empowered to do through managing their assets

650
00:32:31,508 –> 00:32:36,095
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: on your platform or any other type
of infusions of tech for the actual benefit

651
00:32:36,155 –> 00:32:37,698
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the investor um

652
00:32:37,908 –> 00:32:38,333
[fraser_stark]: great question

653
00:32:38,100 –> 00:32:38,220
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that

654
00:32:38,373 –> 00:32:38,555
[fraser_stark]: tis

655
00:32:38,461 –> 00:32:39,565
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you guys might make considering

656
00:32:40,445 –> 00:32:45,293
[fraser_stark]: yeah you know right now because it
sold as a mutual fund the client experience

657
00:32:45,353 –> 00:32:49,480
[fraser_stark]: is typically between the deal or whether
that’s an online

658
00:32:49,324 –> 00:32:49,838
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

659
00:32:49,520 –> 00:32:53,346
[fraser_stark]: brokerage or an advisor someone works with
or the life works platform for someone who

660
00:32:53,386 –> 00:32:57,633
[fraser_stark]: manage this manages this as part of
their workplace savings program so

661
00:32:57,758 –> 00:32:58,898
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

662
00:32:57,994 –> 00:32:58,174
[fraser_stark]: that

663
00:32:58,140 –> 00:32:58,366
[paul_tyler]: oh

664
00:32:58,254 –> 00:32:59,216
[fraser_stark]: experience is

665
00:32:59,220 –> 00:33:00,420
[paul_tyler]: yeah

666
00:32:59,296 –> 00:33:04,685
[fraser_stark]: today controlled there you know we have
bold ambitions to play in different parts this

667
00:33:05,106 –> 00:33:05,707
[fraser_stark]: but what i can

668
00:33:05,910 –> 00:33:06,750
[paul_tyler]: oh

669
00:33:05,947 –> 00:33:11,416
[fraser_stark]: what i can tell you is our
website retire with longevity dot com has two

670
00:33:11,476 –> 00:33:17,967
[fraser_stark]: calculators there visualize ones as a simple
visualizer of income someone can expect the others

671
00:33:18,027 –> 00:33:22,234
[fraser_stark]: a bit more of a of a
picture a canadian retired investors

672
00:33:21,701 –> 00:33:22,208
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

673
00:33:23,236 –> 00:33:28,284
[fraser_stark]: income profile you know when i look
and i see calculators you know that exist

674
00:33:28,425 –> 00:33:32,097
[fraser_stark]: online in different places often they’re very
complex

675
00:33:32,340 –> 00:33:32,582
[paul_tyler]: oh

676
00:33:32,835 –> 00:33:38,183
[fraser_stark]: i think they may be in some
cases designed to make the person showing it

677
00:33:38,224 –> 00:33:42,791
[fraser_stark]: to the client look smart or you
know it’s more about showing complexity than the

678
00:33:42,891 –> 00:33:47,878
[fraser_stark]: simplicity and we want to with that
i mean our investors are very intelligent but

679
00:33:48,179 –> 00:33:54,186
[fraser_stark]: but this is not the they’re not
actuaries they’re not financial know ph d s

680
00:33:54,547 –> 00:33:59,453
[fraser_stark]: and so the more you can show
someone simplicity i think and and so we’ve

681
00:33:59,473 –> 00:34:04,840
[fraser_stark]: got some calculators today where where i
can see us going with this is you

682
00:34:04,880 –> 00:34:05,281
[fraser_stark]: know too

683
00:34:05,379 –> 00:34:05,400
[paul_tyler]: m

684
00:34:05,481 –> 00:34:10,930
[fraser_stark]: often we we go to averages planners
often say well you know the average person

685
00:34:11,030 –> 00:34:13,855
[fraser_stark]: is sixty five can expect to live
to be eighty seven eighty eight you know

686
00:34:13,955 –> 00:34:18,162
[fraser_stark]: depending on country and gender and so
forth so let’s build you a plan of

687
00:34:18,202 –> 00:34:23,932
[fraser_stark]: ninety right but averages are always dangerous
i go back to that that that fable

688
00:34:23,972 –> 00:34:27,798
[fraser_stark]: you know would you you walk across
the fast flowing river if i told you

689
00:34:28,019 –> 00:34:31,184
[fraser_stark]: on average it was only two feet
deep well if it’s eight feet deep in

690
00:34:31,204 –> 00:34:34,790
[fraser_stark]: the middle you’ll you’ll get washed away
and i think the same thing is exactly

691
00:34:34,850 –> 00:34:39,723
[fraser_stark]: what exists for investors so i could
s in the next year building tools that

692
00:34:40,767 –> 00:34:47,941
[fraser_stark]: that make monte carlo simulations readily accessible
in a real way to investors and i

693
00:34:47,981 –> 00:34:53,110
[fraser_stark]: think monte carlo is the thing and
stocastic fancy greek word or latin word for

694
00:34:53,150 –> 00:34:57,617
[fraser_stark]: it these are terms that just sound
like a lot of sophistication went in on

695
00:34:57,637 –> 00:35:01,844
[fraser_stark]: the back end but i’d love to
show investors that there’s a wide range of

696
00:35:01,904 –> 00:35:07,814
[fraser_stark]: possibilities and what you need to do
is optimize you need to optimize your situation

697
00:35:07,854 –> 00:35:11,080
[fraser_stark]: work gardless of what happens right it’s
what we do when we insure things it’s

698
00:35:11,100 –> 00:35:16,629
[fraser_stark]: what an annuity does right an nuities
great annuities are great products but but that

699
00:35:16,729 –> 00:35:20,996
[fraser_stark]: idea you know it’s not easy and
these things are complex in the back end

700
00:35:21,076 –> 00:35:24,322
[fraser_stark]: how do you turn it into something
that’s visually quite simple you know i think

701
00:35:24,722 –> 00:35:28,248
[fraser_stark]: know my experience at facebook for a
couple of years you know is a great

702
00:35:28,308 –> 00:35:32,696
[fraser_stark]: example of a platform that takes you
know the amount of information lowing through that

703
00:35:32,856 –> 00:35:37,083
[fraser_stark]: the you know whether you think about
our user experience and being able to you

704
00:35:37,143 –> 00:35:40,449
[fraser_stark]: know to attend events and see that
our friends are going that is that is

705
00:35:40,489 –> 00:35:45,417
[fraser_stark]: a tremendous amount of information that’s simplified
and really consumable ay by people of all

706
00:35:45,477 –> 00:35:50,245
[fraser_stark]: ages it’s become a controversial platform social
media itself is a controversial topic these days

707
00:35:50,640 –> 00:35:51,690
[paul_tyler]: oh

708
00:35:51,387 –> 00:35:54,492
[fraser_stark]: but likewise if you think about what
what happens i was on the on the

709
00:35:54,572 –> 00:35:59,480
[fraser_stark]: ads team at facebook if you think
what happens there the amount of data that

710
00:35:59,540 –> 00:36:03,587
[fraser_stark]: is going in to determining that that
i see and add you know advertising a

711
00:36:03,627 –> 00:36:07,834
[fraser_stark]: certain car brand or you know sneakers
that they want me to buy it’s immense

712
00:36:07,934 –> 00:36:14,787
[fraser_stark]: amounts information going in so that’s where
i see a lot of education that’s really

713
00:36:14,907 –> 00:36:17,031
[fraser_stark]: helpful to investors you know i think

714
00:36:16,950 –> 00:36:17,438
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

715
00:36:17,191 –> 00:36:22,352
[fraser_stark]: our legacy should be we’d love to
to really help investors in canada and around

716
00:36:22,392 –> 00:36:31,189
[fraser_stark]: the world understand the challenge of the
accumulation and and you know if that’s what

717
00:36:31,229 –> 00:36:35,897
[fraser_stark]: we create however they choose to solve
that great and i think our fund will

718
00:36:36,357 –> 00:36:38,341
[fraser_stark]: we’ll ride that wave of course

719
00:36:39,050 –> 00:36:39,518
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

720
00:36:39,222 –> 00:36:44,231
[fraser_stark]: but i think it’s just so important
people you people are suffering and and lots

721
00:36:44,251 –> 00:36:47,376
[fraser_stark]: of investors are doing really well but
we hear from canadians every day who are

722
00:36:47,476 –> 00:36:50,160
[fraser_stark]: really hit by what’s going on in
markets and you know

723
00:36:50,151 –> 00:36:50,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

724
00:36:50,201 –> 00:36:54,911
[fraser_stark]: they’ve not got enough money to last
them forever at their current rate of spend

725
00:36:55,252 –> 00:36:57,780
[fraser_stark]: and so being able to articulate that
is

726
00:36:57,780 –> 00:36:58,084
[paul_tyler]: oh

727
00:36:57,820 –> 00:36:58,863
[fraser_stark]: where i’d love to contribute

728
00:36:59,540 –> 00:37:00,886
[paul_tyler]: okay so your fund

729
00:37:01,238 –> 00:37:01,382
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

730
00:37:01,308 –> 00:37:09,623
[paul_tyler]: versus annuities is it does your product
replace annuities if i’m an investor reward is

731
00:37:09,663 –> 00:37:14,253
[paul_tyler]: a compliment would i ever own your
fund and have an annuity at the same

732
00:37:14,334 –> 00:37:14,575
[paul_tyler]: time

733
00:37:15,705 –> 00:37:18,450
[fraser_stark]: many of our investors do and when
we speak with the com know we do

734
00:37:18,530 –> 00:37:22,697
[fraser_stark]: market research and talk to investors we
welcome them to the community we’re building um

735
00:37:23,097 –> 00:37:23,177
[fraser_stark]: you

736
00:37:23,139 –> 00:37:23,160
[paul_tyler]: m

737
00:37:23,198 –> 00:37:26,483
[fraser_stark]: know and and a surprising number of
them do say you know i have annuities

738
00:37:26,543 –> 00:37:28,967
[fraser_stark]: and i heard about this fun and
and i understood

739
00:37:28,530 –> 00:37:28,813
[paul_tyler]: oh

740
00:37:29,007 –> 00:37:33,114
[fraser_stark]: the differences you know i like the
shelf analogy and you think about you know

741
00:37:33,174 –> 00:37:36,880
[fraser_stark]: a shelf at a store and the
two products side by side on the shelf

742
00:37:36,900 –> 00:37:41,170
[fraser_stark]: they each have different different trade offs
and benefits um and i think that’s that’s

743
00:37:41,210 –> 00:37:44,862
[fraser_stark]: very true here you know there are
investors who will look at our fund and

744
00:37:44,942 –> 00:37:50,021
[fraser_stark]: say what i’m actually after is an
annuity i need that guarantee i’m willing to

745
00:37:50,102 –> 00:37:55,070
[fraser_stark]: accept less you know what i say
about guarantees we we’ve got to blog post

746
00:37:55,130 –> 00:37:57,674
[fraser_stark]: on our website about guarantees they’re wonderful

747
00:37:57,510 –> 00:37:58,380
[paul_tyler]: oh

748
00:37:58,096 –> 00:38:01,518
[fraser_stark]: but they come at a cost and
you may or may not choose to take

749
00:38:01,538 –> 00:38:04,843
[fraser_stark]: that cost i mean do you do
you buy the insurance when you get a

750
00:38:04,903 –> 00:38:08,957
[fraser_stark]: new smart phone you know that means
if you if you drop it and smash

751
00:38:09,037 –> 00:38:11,960
[fraser_stark]: it the company some people do some
people don’t they’re making the right decision for

752
00:38:12,000 –> 00:38:17,710
[fraser_stark]: themselves in the guarantee against market risk
that comes with an annuity is right for

753
00:38:17,770 –> 00:38:21,718
[fraser_stark]: some people and not right for others
and the research shows we’ve got an amazing

754
00:38:21,798 –> 00:38:24,182
[fraser_stark]: advisory committee on this fund one of
whom

755
00:38:24,210 –> 00:38:24,539
[paul_tyler]: oh

756
00:38:24,582 –> 00:38:31,133
[fraser_stark]: jim leech ran ontario teachers pension plan
and and others bonny macdonald’s leading academic what

757
00:38:31,254 –> 00:38:35,340
[fraser_stark]: each of our our advisory members has
told us in different ways is that investors

758
00:38:35,441 –> 00:38:42,292
[fraser_stark]: are actually able to manage variability and
income it think about our lives if i

759
00:38:42,392 –> 00:38:46,669
[fraser_stark]: get a raise at work i’m gonna
i’m going to change my spending in slight

760
00:38:46,709 –> 00:38:50,676
[fraser_stark]: ways it may mean more saving but
it may also mean slightly different spending patterns

761
00:38:50,756 –> 00:38:54,383
[fraser_stark]: likewise if i take a different job
at a lower pay level i’m not i’m

762
00:38:54,423 –> 00:39:00,506
[fraser_stark]: not absolutely you know devastate it in
a irrecoverable way we can adjust to those

763
00:39:00,546 –> 00:39:05,428
[fraser_stark]: things and so when you say to
someone you know i’ll guarantee you i don’t

764
00:39:05,468 –> 00:39:10,556
[fraser_stark]: know x per cent or or i
can offer you one and a half times

765
00:39:10,636 –> 00:39:14,041
[fraser_stark]: that as a return but knowing that
there are scenarios where it could go down

766
00:39:14,102 –> 00:39:15,564
[fraser_stark]: to less than whatever that x was

767
00:39:16,170 –> 00:39:16,560
[paul_tyler]: oh

768
00:39:16,926 –> 00:39:20,792
[fraser_stark]: and you know people rightly ask a
lot of questions about that well how likely

769
00:39:20,852 –> 00:39:24,779
[fraser_stark]: is it to do these different things
and that’s what we’ve been so transparent with

770
00:39:24,899 –> 00:39:28,004
[fraser_stark]: our with our reporting and the annual
report we’re putting out in a couple of

771
00:39:28,024 –> 00:39:32,049
[fraser_stark]: weeks to show you know the update
on all that but that’s that’s really how

772
00:39:32,089 –> 00:39:36,553
[fraser_stark]: to think of it against an annuity
and that idea of compartmentalizing our income sources

773
00:39:36,598 –> 00:39:36,638
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

774
00:39:36,613 –> 00:39:39,118
[fraser_stark]: in retirement most most

775
00:39:39,162 –> 00:39:39,263
[paul_tyler]: ah

776
00:39:39,218 –> 00:39:43,488
[fraser_stark]: investors in canada do not own annuities
and i think if someone says they’ve looked

777
00:39:43,397 –> 00:39:43,418
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

778
00:39:43,528 –> 00:39:45,192
[fraser_stark]: at longevity and are going to

779
00:39:45,197 –> 00:39:45,218
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: m

780
00:39:46,675 –> 00:39:51,523
[fraser_stark]: are going to buy an annuity i
think that’s fantastic you’re you’re protecting yourself against

781
00:39:51,563 –> 00:39:55,349
[fraser_stark]: longevity risk someone says i’ve looked at
longevity and i think i’m just going to

782
00:39:55,369 –> 00:39:58,254
[fraser_stark]: keep my assets in a balanced fund

783
00:39:58,560 –> 00:39:58,822
[paul_tyler]: oh

784
00:39:59,014 –> 00:40:04,483
[fraser_stark]: m i think okay but you’ve left
yourself you’ve left yourself self insured effectively and

785
00:40:04,924 –> 00:40:08,710
[fraser_stark]: what you have to do then as
an investor s decide how do i balance

786
00:40:08,810 –> 00:40:13,196
[fraser_stark]: the risk of running out of money
at some state which is which is a

787
00:40:13,256 –> 00:40:18,685
[fraser_stark]: possibility unless you unless you stretch your
portfolio to last until your dean fifteen you

788
00:40:18,725 –> 00:40:22,291
[fraser_stark]: know the oldest canadian ever live to
be ned seventeen and a half but i

789
00:40:22,331 –> 00:40:26,798
[fraser_stark]: think a hunderd and fifteen will cover
you know basically everyone if you do that

790
00:40:26,978 –> 00:40:27,298
[fraser_stark]: you have

791
00:40:27,180 –> 00:40:27,900
[paul_tyler]: yeah

792
00:40:27,759 –> 00:40:33,194
[fraser_stark]: you have a very high degree of
certainty of understanding and leaving a lot of

793
00:40:33,275 –> 00:40:37,051
[fraser_stark]: money your estate and that’s it’s great
for your state but

794
00:40:37,269 –> 00:40:37,290
[paul_tyler]: m

795
00:40:37,775 –> 00:40:40,803
[fraser_stark]: that’s that that’s the trade off and
so that’s how we think about it

796
00:40:42,189 –> 00:40:42,210
[paul_tyler]: m

797
00:40:43,049 –> 00:40:45,152
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: so fraser few times

798
00:40:45,188 –> 00:40:45,289
[fraser_stark]: to

799
00:40:45,433 –> 00:40:50,201
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i’ve i’ve heard you sort of hint
at i think a bigger why i’ve heard

800
00:40:50,241 –> 00:40:53,787
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: you talk about sort of the power
of the product and a little bit about

801
00:40:53,827 –> 00:40:54,287
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: the legs

802
00:40:54,115 –> 00:40:55,285
[fraser_stark]: yeah

803
00:40:54,528 –> 00:40:59,136
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: of the company so my question for
you is it feels like there’s maybe an

804
00:40:59,236 –> 00:41:06,147
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: intention to shift the investors mindset about
retirement could you comment a little bit on

805
00:41:06,688 –> 00:41:10,297
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: kind of that bigger why or what
you hope to do and shifting people’s attitudes

806
00:41:10,358 –> 00:41:13,866
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: about retirement their attitudes around outliving their
assets

807
00:41:15,465 –> 00:41:20,574
[fraser_stark]: yeah it’s a great question to send
and you know our mantra at purpose and

808
00:41:20,955 –> 00:41:25,001
[fraser_stark]: on the longevity team his ambition never
retires i think we’re driven by a sense

809
00:41:25,322 –> 00:41:26,564
[fraser_stark]: of this

810
00:41:26,580 –> 00:41:26,786
[paul_tyler]: yeah

811
00:41:26,644 –> 00:41:30,951
[fraser_stark]: can be an amazing third act in
people’s lives people are spending more time in

812
00:41:31,011 –> 00:41:34,477
[fraser_stark]: retirement as retirement age you now it
varies we call

813
00:41:34,350 –> 00:41:34,551
[paul_tyler]: oh

814
00:41:34,537 –> 00:41:35,559
[fraser_stark]: it sixty five of course

815
00:41:35,468 –> 00:41:36,278
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

816
00:41:35,699 –> 00:41:37,642
[fraser_stark]: not every one retires at sixty five
we sort of

817
00:41:37,651 –> 00:41:38,138
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

818
00:41:37,702 –> 00:41:39,571
[fraser_stark]: use that as a cliche

819
00:41:40,350 –> 00:41:41,559
[paul_tyler]: yeah yeah

820
00:41:41,855 –> 00:41:44,339
[fraser_stark]: it can be such a powerful time
in life

821
00:41:44,184 –> 00:41:44,266
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: ye

822
00:41:44,700 –> 00:41:48,626
[fraser_stark]: but if you’re stressed about running out
of money it may not be or it

823
00:41:48,646 –> 00:41:50,770
[fraser_stark]: may not live up to its full
potential because

824
00:41:50,678 –> 00:41:51,818
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: mhm

825
00:41:51,270 –> 00:41:52,372
[fraser_stark]: you know doing these things

826
00:41:52,478 –> 00:41:53,678
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

827
00:41:52,593 –> 00:41:58,082
[fraser_stark]: going to see family who live in
a different province or state pursuing hobbies whether

828
00:41:58,142 –> 00:42:03,010
[fraser_stark]: it’s the sort of cliche of golf
or some artistic endeavor or you know even

829
00:42:03,090 –> 00:42:07,978
[fraser_stark]: giving back to your community you know
like a board member volunteer these things they

830
00:42:08,038 –> 00:42:08,179
[fraser_stark]: take

831
00:42:08,212 –> 00:42:08,233
[paul_tyler]: a

832
00:42:08,239 –> 00:42:08,760
[fraser_stark]: resources

833
00:42:08,390 –> 00:42:08,798
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

834
00:42:09,441 –> 00:42:09,701
[fraser_stark]: they don’t

835
00:42:09,591 –> 00:42:09,998
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

836
00:42:09,741 –> 00:42:15,050
[fraser_stark]: take they don’t take huge amounts of
assets but they take income to be able

837
00:42:15,110 –> 00:42:18,215
[fraser_stark]: to know that you can do these
things that you can know gas in the

838
00:42:18,255 –> 00:42:22,282
[fraser_stark]: car pay the rent et cetera and
so you know that

839
00:42:22,200 –> 00:42:22,860
[paul_tyler]: yeah

840
00:42:22,382 –> 00:42:28,693
[fraser_stark]: that’s what drives us is this idea
that you know it’s there’s so much research

841
00:42:28,753 –> 00:42:33,661
[fraser_stark]: into into how society doesn’t value the
elderly the way that it

842
00:42:33,601 –> 00:42:34,088
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

843
00:42:33,701 –> 00:42:34,783
[fraser_stark]: should and there’s organization s

844
00:42:34,764 –> 00:42:35,198
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: hm

845
00:42:34,823 –> 00:42:39,771
[fraser_stark]: great advocacy organizations like carp here in
canada really pushing for that but but we

846
00:42:39,912 –> 00:42:43,859
[fraser_stark]: see that as important as well and
want to as a we’re a financial company

847
00:42:44,120 –> 00:42:49,118
[fraser_stark]: we’re an asset manager we want to
help people make the most out of their

848
00:42:49,198 –> 00:42:52,843
[fraser_stark]: assets and so that’s really what drives
us but but we love that saying ambition

849
00:42:52,943 –> 00:42:53,564
[fraser_stark]: never retires

850
00:42:54,158 –> 00:42:54,338
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: that’s

851
00:42:54,230 –> 00:42:54,654
[paul_tyler]: ambition

852
00:42:54,398 –> 00:42:54,559
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: great

853
00:42:54,856 –> 00:42:55,118
[paul_tyler]: never

854
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,380
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: i

855
00:42:55,360 –> 00:42:55,824
[paul_tyler]: retires

856
00:42:55,460 –> 00:42:58,245
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: was kind of repeating that as you
were speaking ambition never

857
00:42:58,242 –> 00:42:58,422
[paul_tyler]: that’s

858
00:42:58,305 –> 00:42:58,685
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: retires

859
00:42:58,502 –> 00:43:03,530
[paul_tyler]: great that’s great listen you have a
great tag line helping canadians retire from work

860
00:43:03,971 –> 00:43:05,955
[paul_tyler]: not life this is this

861
00:43:05,945 –> 00:43:06,087
[fraser_stark]: right

862
00:43:06,015 –> 00:43:09,941
[paul_tyler]: is good this is more than a
mutual fund stock ticker right think fraser you’ve

863
00:43:09,981 –> 00:43:16,011
[paul_tyler]: got going to your company which is
terrific and um i don’t want to ask

864
00:43:16,292 –> 00:43:17,313
[paul_tyler]: too hard you know we’re

865
00:43:17,288 –> 00:43:17,592
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: oh

866
00:43:17,354 –> 00:43:22,522
[paul_tyler]: right up to the hour here you
talk about your focuses on can tiens how

867
00:43:22,582 –> 00:43:25,147
[paul_tyler]: big of a lift is this to
take your product and put it into the

868
00:43:25,287 –> 00:43:28,732
[paul_tyler]: u s is it really a matter
of just putting resources or do you have

869
00:43:28,773 –> 00:43:32,298
[paul_tyler]: to get some laws changed to do
something like this in the

870
00:43:32,336 –> 00:43:32,537
[fraser_stark]: yeah

871
00:43:32,359 –> 00:43:33,242
[paul_tyler]: states oh

872
00:43:33,097 –> 00:43:37,104
[fraser_stark]: you know it’s a great question and
we see this is applicable around the world

873
00:43:37,946 –> 00:43:43,034
[fraser_stark]: one of the things that that i’ve
been really pleasantly surprised by is just how

874
00:43:43,114 –> 00:43:47,842
[fraser_stark]: many people around the world are all
working towards the same goal here of giving

875
00:43:47,922 –> 00:43:52,810
[fraser_stark]: people security and retirement and i think
there’s applicability of this in the u s

876
00:43:53,051 –> 00:43:54,573
[fraser_stark]: as well as other countries

877
00:43:54,210 –> 00:43:54,534
[paul_tyler]: yeah

878
00:43:55,395 –> 00:44:01,164
[fraser_stark]: you know places in europe are going
through transitions with their pension structure australia has

879
00:44:01,224 –> 00:44:04,790
[fraser_stark]: built an incredible pension system but its
been rally focused on accumulation and not as

880
00:44:04,850 –> 00:44:11,061
[fraser_stark]: much yet on decumulation you know law
is changed i would say is too strong

881
00:44:11,141 –> 00:44:15,208
[fraser_stark]: a wording is what we needed here
in canada was to work with our regulators

882
00:44:15,889 –> 00:44:20,256
[fraser_stark]: to have some exemptions to the way
you know the rules and guidelines that cover

883
00:44:20,597 –> 00:44:26,106
[fraser_stark]: mutual funds you know this idea of
a fund that redeems at less than its

884
00:44:26,166 –> 00:44:29,592
[fraser_stark]: current value it raises eyebrows and we
needed

885
00:44:29,577 –> 00:44:30,090
[paul_tyler]: hm

886
00:44:29,632 –> 00:44:33,338
[fraser_stark]: to show the regulators first of i
was an important problem we’re solving that we

887
00:44:33,378 –> 00:44:37,825
[fraser_stark]: were doing this for reasons that that
to to give us exemptive relief on that

888
00:44:37,926 –> 00:44:41,391
[fraser_stark]: issue allowed us to create a really
powerful product and in that process took a

889
00:44:41,431 –> 00:44:45,678
[fraser_stark]: couple of years but as soon as
they stood the problem and understood that our

890
00:44:45,759 –> 00:44:49,725
[fraser_stark]: structure and the transparency and how we
would use it was powerful they became not

891
00:44:49,805 –> 00:44:55,595
[fraser_stark]: only open to it but actually champions
and ambassadors for us around the country was

892
00:44:55,856 –> 00:44:58,726
[fraser_stark]: which was great you know in the
u s i think similar things would need

893
00:44:58,766 –> 00:45:03,688
[fraser_stark]: to be true and you know you
have regulators who who take really

894
00:45:03,540 –> 00:45:03,844
[paul_tyler]: may

895
00:45:03,768 –> 00:45:10,299
[fraser_stark]: strong investor protection focus as they should
as ours do here and you know we’re

896
00:45:10,480 –> 00:45:15,614
[fraser_stark]: looking to opportunities bring this to the
u s and markets but it really has

897
00:45:15,654 –> 00:45:21,901
[fraser_stark]: to fit within every country’s you know
the structure around how they manage investment funds

898
00:45:22,221 –> 00:45:26,448
[fraser_stark]: and you now we’re so proud of
what we’ve built in canada to see the

899
00:45:26,689 –> 00:45:31,837
[fraser_stark]: attraction it’s getting to be on a
on an institution a record keeping platform this

900
00:45:31,918 –> 00:45:35,003
[fraser_stark]: early in its existence i think is
really really

901
00:45:34,950 –> 00:45:35,135
[paul_tyler]: ye

902
00:45:35,083 –> 00:45:39,951
[fraser_stark]: powerful and the press we’ve gotten around
the world has been has been you know

903
00:45:40,532 –> 00:45:45,079
[fraser_stark]: incredibly encouraging and and wonderful so

904
00:45:45,320 –> 00:45:45,461
[paul_tyler]: yeah

905
00:45:45,560 –> 00:45:48,185
[fraser_stark]: yes they tune stay tuned on on
the us we’d love

906
00:45:48,090 –> 00:45:48,333
[paul_tyler]: oh

907
00:45:48,325 –> 00:45:53,353
[fraser_stark]: to know we’d love to bring a
similar product to the u s and it’s

908
00:45:53,433 –> 00:45:58,783
[fraser_stark]: choice for invest or right and as
i say annuities are great but the guarantees

909
00:45:59,044 –> 00:46:02,069
[fraser_stark]: come on to costs that’s right for
some investors and and not right for others

910
00:46:02,169 –> 00:46:04,514
[fraser_stark]: and i think this belongs on the
shelf beside products like that

911
00:46:05,620 –> 00:46:10,470
[paul_tyler]: excellent all right listen fraser thanks so
much for your time tessa thank you

912
00:46:11,063 –> 00:46:12,706
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: thank you thanks paul thanks fraser

913
00:46:12,594 –> 00:46:18,444
[paul_tyler]: and listen fraser we’ll put your website
in the show notes any other

914
00:46:18,698 –> 00:46:19,298
[tisa_rabun_marshall]: yeah

915
00:46:19,105 –> 00:46:24,123
[paul_tyler]: places people should go to learn more
about your company product or reach you

916
00:46:25,228 –> 00:46:29,475
[fraser_stark]: i think the website’s great the contact
information is there for anyone interested reach out

917
00:46:29,555 –> 00:46:34,584
[fraser_stark]: and our team will get notes to
me as appropriate purpose invest dot com is

918
00:46:34,664 –> 00:46:39,068
[fraser_stark]: the parent company’s website if people are
interested in purpose but retire with longevity dot

919
00:46:39,108 –> 00:46:40,089
[fraser_stark]: com is really

920
00:46:39,990 –> 00:46:40,590
[paul_tyler]: oh

921
00:46:40,730 –> 00:46:45,694
[fraser_stark]: a great a great resource with with
lots of articles and helpful tools

922
00:46:46,390 –> 00:46:50,135
[paul_tyler]: all right good all right hey thanks
so much thanks our listeners and join us

923
00:46:50,155 –> 00:46:53,259
[paul_tyler]: again next week for another episode of
that annuity show

924
00:46:54,326 –> 00:46:55,345
[fraser_stark]: all right thanks for having me

 

Nick DesrocherEpisode 171: Helping Canadians Retire From Work, Not Life With Fraser Stark
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Finding Peace of Mind With Your Retirement Income

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Even in tough times, you can secure retirement income that lets you maintain your lifestyle, lasts a lifetime, adjusts for life events and leaves a legacy for the kids.

Jerry Golden
November 10, 2022

Investors who’ve recently taken a big hit in the market are struggling to find peace of mind when it comes to achieving lifetime retirement income. Don’t give up; it can be done.

Importantly, peace of mind depends on more than just a pile of cash. Consider this scenario of a self-taught money manager who was lucky enough to move 80% of his holdings to cash in 2021. Along with bragging about it, he is offering his money management skills to friends and family.

However, these Baby Boomers are not as well off, are a little older and, because they did not move to cash, they have recently taken a big hit in the market. Now, in addition to losing a significant portion of their retirement savings, they have another anxiety: Am I going to have enough income to maintain my lifestyle for the rest of my life?

A pile of money is nice, but what they need is more targeted: income that is sufficient to support their lifestyle through their entire lifetime, access to funds in case of a late-in-retirement life event, and a legacy left for the kids and grandkids. With those needs, they will obtain that all-important peace of mind.

Let’s explore the qualities, instead of only the quantities, of a plan for all phases of retirement.

How to Achieve Lifetime Retirement Income

In the beginning of retirement, when you stop working, or are working part-time, you need enough income to enable this major change. Ideally, your plan will be easy to understand so you know where your income is coming from. When retirees had a pension along with Social Security, planning was a lot easier. (And tax planning was a lot simpler.) Now, most retirees or near-retirees need a plan for retirement income, like Go2Income (opens in new tab).

With a Go2Income plan, annuity payments supply some of the guaranteed lifetime income that pensions produced. However, you have many more options with these annuity payments, including:

– Annuity payment start dates.
– Income continuation to beneficiary and to a surviving spouse.
– Choice of level, increasing or laddered income.
– Accounts used as a source of annuity premium.

And since annuity payments also have include tax advantages that will boost your spendable (after-tax) income, you need to consider all of these questions and their related tax benefits and consequences.

The above may sound pretty basic, but the money manager mentioned above doesn’t even think in those terms. He’s looking only at the pile of money and how big it is, not whether it can provide a lifetime stream of income or meet life events, or how to capture the tax advantages.

How to Address Life Events

I make a lot of plans for the future. I also hedge my bets in case things don’t go the way I hope, so I deploy annuities or insurance to protect against actuarial or life risks. In addition, a plan like Go2Income should be designed to be easily adjusted in response to adverse market conditions, and where the changes to your income will be relatively small and hopefully temporary when they do occur.

A life event could be (1) a severe but short-term medical condition, or (2) the discovery that your house needs a new roof. Both can be expensive and could also lead to a significant reduction in the value of your savings.

With a Go2Income plan, you can test your plan for, say, a substantial shock to your retirement savings. In many instances, you will find that you need only small income adjustments to recover. And you always have the option of pushing the market loss to a planned reduction in legacy for the kids and grandkids while you maintain your current lifestyle. In any event, you aren’t left waiting for the market to turn around in order to pay your bills.

With your original Go2Income plan, you could be generating more income (after-tax) than you need each month, and you can use that higher income to pay for long-term care and better health insurance coverage, so the medical condition won’t bankrupt you.

And, if you already have good health and long-term care insurance, you can invest that extra income you’re earning into a legacy account.

How to Provide for a Legacy

The best plan should include not worrying about money, particularly late in retirement. You may be traveling a little less and decide to downsize (getting rid of both the lawn mower and the snow blower), so you won’t be spending as much every month. However, there may be other expenses that replace these.

With a successful Go2Income plan, most of your income — particularly in the late-in-retirement stage — will be “safe” and coming from Social Security, annuity payments, dividends and interest, with less in withdrawals from your rollover IRA.

To ensure either spouse is income-protected (even if one lives many more years beyond the spouse who passes first), you can elect an annuity payment option that continues to the survivor. If you believe the surviving spouse will need less income, then you can use that savings for a larger legacy. You can also elect to have annuity payments continue to a non-spouse beneficiary.

You could be putting extra earnings away toward a financial legacy and investing it in an account like a Roth IRA, which will allow your heirs to receive the money without a tax bite. Or you may want to establish a health savings account (HSA). You will find that having a secure source of income enables those types of decisions.

Finally, while putting your retirement income plan together, you may want to do some estate planning at the same time.

How to Have Peace of Mind

I’ll mention the money manager once again —

Interruption to address inflation…

Wait! I can’t end this article without a discussion of inflation and how Go2Income addresses it. As I wrote in my article Factoring Inflation into Your Retirement Plan, you can create an income plan that anticipates inflation over many years and allows for adjustments. How you decide to address market risk, longevity risk and the risk of inflation will help you decide the best plan for you.

Back to our friend the money manager…

With your Go2Income plan, you are using some of today’s retirement savings to purchase a lifetime of safe income and including other sources not requiring the liquidation of securities. And you’re using a portion of that income for insurance protection and/or legacy growth.

The money manager doesn’t have those future life events on his or her screen. If the future brings something unexpected (and it always does), a pile of cash, in a worst-case scenario, may not meet your needs late in retirement.

What I’m really talking about is the peace of mind that you earn with a plan for lifetime income, the ability to adjust to bad news and the gift of a legacy.

Read more: Investors who’ve recently taken a big hit in the market are struggling to find peace of mind when it comes to achieving lifetime retirement income. Don’t give up; it can be done.

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Importantly, peace of mind depends on more than just a pile of cash. Consider this scenario of a self-taught money manager who was lucky enough to move 80% of his holdings to cash in 2021. Along with bragging about it, he is offering his money management skills to friends and family.

However, these Baby Boomers are not as well off, are a little older and, because they did not move to cash, they have recently taken a big hit in the market. Now, in addition to losing a significant portion of their retirement savings, they have another anxiety: Am I going to have enough income to maintain my lifestyle for the rest of my life?

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A pile of money is nice, but what they need is more targeted: income that is sufficient to support their lifestyle through their entire lifetime, access to funds in case of a late-in-retirement life event, and a legacy left for the kids and grandkids. With those needs, they will obtain that all-important peace of mind.

Let’s explore the qualities, instead of only the quantities, of a plan for all phases of retirement.

How to Achieve Lifetime Retirement Income
In the beginning of retirement, when you stop working, or are working part-time, you need enough income to enable this major change. Ideally, your plan will be easy to understand so you know where your income is coming from. When retirees had a pension along with Social Security, planning was a lot easier. (And tax planning was a lot simpler.) Now, most retirees or near-retirees need a plan for retirement income, like Go2Income (opens in new tab).

With a Go2Income plan, annuity payments supply some of the guaranteed lifetime income that pensions produced. However, you have many more options with these annuity payments, including:

Annuity payment start dates.
Income continuation to beneficiary and to a surviving spouse.
Choice of level, increasing or laddered income.
Accounts used as a source of annuity premium.
And since annuity payments also have include tax advantages that will boost your spendable (after-tax) income, you need to consider all of these questions and their related tax benefits and consequences.

The above may sound pretty basic, but the money manager mentioned above doesn’t even think in those terms. He’s looking only at the pile of money and how big it is, not whether it can provide a lifetime stream of income or meet life events, or how to capture the tax advantages.

How to Address Life Events
I make a lot of plans for the future. I also hedge my bets in case things don’t go the way I hope, so I deploy annuities or insurance to protect against actuarial or life risks. In addition, a plan like Go2Income should be designed to be easily adjusted in response to adverse market conditions, and where the changes to your income will be relatively small and hopefully temporary when they do occur.

A life event could be (1) a severe but short-term medical condition, or (2) the discovery that your house needs a new roof. Both can be expensive and could also lead to a significant reduction in the value of your savings.

With a Go2Income plan, you can test your plan for, say, a substantial shock to your retirement savings. In many instances, you will find that you need only small income adjustments to recover. And you always have the option of pushing the market loss to a planned reduction in legacy for the kids and grandkids while you maintain your current lifestyle. In any event, you aren’t left waiting for the market to turn around in order to pay your bills.

With your original Go2Income plan, you could be generating more income (after-tax) than you need each month, and you can use that higher income to pay for long-term care and better health insurance coverage, so the medical condition won’t bankrupt you.

And, if you already have good health and long-term care insurance, you can invest that extra income you’re earning into a legacy account.

How to Provide for a Legacy
The best plan should include not worrying about money, particularly late in retirement. You may be traveling a little less and decide to downsize (getting rid of both the lawn mower and the snow blower), so you won’t be spending as much every month. However, there may be other expenses that replace these.

With a successful Go2Income plan, most of your income — particularly in the late-in-retirement stage — will be “safe” and coming from Social Security, annuity payments, dividends and interest, with less in withdrawals from your rollover IRA.

Retirees with a Guaranteed Income Are Happier, Live Longer
To ensure either spouse is income-protected (even if one lives many more years beyond the spouse who passes first), you can elect an annuity payment option that continues to the survivor. If you believe the surviving spouse will need less income, then you can use that savings for a larger legacy. You can also elect to have annuity payments continue to a non-spouse beneficiary.

You could be putting extra earnings away toward a financial legacy and investing it in an account like a Roth IRA, which will allow your heirs to receive the money without a tax bite. Or you may want to establish a health savings account (HSA). You will find that having a secure source of income enables those types of decisions.

Finally, while putting your retirement income plan together, you may want to do some estate planning at the same time.

How to Have Peace of Mind

I’ll mention the money manager once again —

Interruption to address inflation…

Wait! I can’t end this article without a discussion of inflation and how Go2Income addresses it. As I wrote in my article Factoring Inflation into Your Retirement Plan, you can create an income plan that anticipates inflation over many years and allows for adjustments. How you decide to address market risk, longevity risk and the risk of inflation will help you decide the best plan for you.

Back to our friend the money manager…

With your Go2Income plan, you are using some of today’s retirement savings to purchase a lifetime of safe income and including other sources not requiring the liquidation of securities. And you’re using a portion of that income for insurance protection and/or legacy growth.

The money manager doesn’t have those future life events on his or her screen. If the future brings something unexpected (and it always does), a pile of cash, in a worst-case scenario, may not meet your needs late in retirement.

What I’m really talking about is the peace of mind that you earn with a plan for lifetime income, the ability to adjust to bad news and the gift of a legacy.

Read more: https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/achieving-lifetime-retirement-income-in-tough-times

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The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick DesrocherFinding Peace of Mind With Your Retirement Income
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‘Quick fix’ concept for IUL illustrations advanced, with some dissent

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John Hilton
November 10, 2022

A state insurance regulator subgroup came up with a “quick fix” Wednesday to address faulty illustration problems within the Actuarial Guideline 49-A.

Sort of.

Members of the Indexed Universal Life Illustration subgroup ended a conference call with a nonbinding “straw poll” vote that favored a fix put forth by Securian Financial and Penn Mutual Life Insurance Co. That was enough for subgroup chair Fred Anderson of the Minnesota Department of Commerce, who agreed to send the poll preference on to the Life Actuarial Task Force.

“We’re really puzzled why you would even consider a proposal to fix this problem from the companies that are causing the problem … it’s like asking a bank robber to design a system to stop them from robbing the bank again.”
Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice

“The proposal accomplishes this task by linking together the option leverage present in the S&P 500 benchmark account with all of the other indexed accounts as an additional limit,” he said. “Under the Securian proposal, any account with the same option budget will have the same option leverage limit.”

‘Could see it dragging on’

While six of ten subgroup members voted for the Securian fix, there remains support for a more “conservative” option, Anderson acknowledged. That option is represented in a letter from the Coalition of Concerned Insurance Professionals.

The coalition proposal grew out of comment letters authored by Sheryl Moore of Moore Market Intelligence and Bobby Samuelson of The Life Product Review. It now encompasses 12 “independent insurance professionals,” Samuelson told the subgroup.

He reminded regulators that the purpose of the original AG 49 was to “standardize the lookback” methodology used in the numerous proprietary indexes insurers are using. Many of those indexes include components that do not have enough performance history available. As a result, efforts to create a history is leading to flawed illustrations, critics claim.

“Every time we’ve been around to do regulation on this, the problem has always been the lookback,” Samuelson said. “That’s part of the reason why the coalition proposal goes all in on the fact that the lookback is flawed, and we should do a hedge budget-based approach. The other groups are taking a similar perspective by using the hedge budget as the basis for the illustrated rate.”

Samuelson sought to clarify perceptions that the coalition opposes the lookback. Not true, he said, but it should be part of an illustration that seeks to properly inform the consumer of the risk and reward.

“The difference is that the industry wants to show risk and reward using a level rate on the illustration,” Samuelson explained. “In other words, they want to show the reward and not the risk. That is the problem with using a lookback, which is inevitably variable. To show a level illustrated rate forever creates the concepts in the client’s mind of perpetual reward with no risk.

“That can also be levered into all sorts of product strategies that can be gamed to maximize illustrative performance, which is exactly why we’ve been through three rounds of these regulations.”

The NAIC adopted AG 49 in 2015, but insurers quickly got around it by offering IUL products with multipliers and bonuses. That led to AG 49-A, adopted in late 2020 after this LATF directive: “designs with multipliers or other enhancements should not illustrate better than non-multiplier designs.”

Time concerns

Anderson expressed concern that advancing the coalition proposal would not be a “quick fix” the subgroup desires.

“The coalition proposal is definitely on the table,” he said. “I understand there may not be much wording [changes], but there are going to be a ton of comments and a ton of issues coming up and I could just see it dragging on and we’ll never get to the core issue.”

In addition to the “quick fix” to AG 49-A, subgroup members are also toying with re-opening the overall Life Insurance Illustrations Model Regulation (#582). Creating regulation #582 was an acrimonious process that took years before the National Association of Insurance Commissioners adopted it in 1995.

The subgroup is accepting comments until Nov. 22 on which subsections of #582 to consider opening and concepts for draft revisions.

Samuelson and other supporters rejected the idea that the coalition fix cannot be done quickly.

“The coalition proposal presents no threat to indexed UL sales and will serve to further consumer understanding,” said Birny Birnbaum, executive director of the Center for Economic Justice. “We’re really puzzled why you would even consider a proposal to fix this problem from the companies that are causing the problem. I mean it’s like asking a bank robber to design a system to stop them from robbing the bank again.”

Read more: https://insurancenewsnet.com/innarticle/quick-fix-concept-for-iul-illustrations-advanced-with-some-dissent

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Show Sponsors

The discussion is not meant to provide any legal, tax, or investment advice with respect to the purchase of an insurance product. A comprehensive evaluation of a consumer’s needs and financial situation should always occur in order to help determine if an insurance product may be appropriate for each unique situation.

Nick Desrocher‘Quick fix’ concept for IUL illustrations advanced, with some dissent
read more